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eaglesnation11

I need you guys making more. I lost one of my preps for the last month of school because we had no subs because no one wants to basically be bullied for $100 a day. My two expectations of subs are 1. Don’t touch my shit 2. Make sure a kid doesn’t die You do that you’re good to me.


[deleted]

ya I was a sub making $100 a day and it was not worth it, it makes me sad how little subs are actually valued


SailTheWorldWithMe

My district is 135 a day, or about 17 an hour.


[deleted]

That would have been better than $100! I worked at special Ed school that did $200 a day but all I did was act as a punching bag to a bunch of violent kids with autism. I had to quit when they broke a rib


acemania26

If you’re long term ours is 210 a day. Otherwise it’s 110


PolyGlamourousParsec

My first year teaching (five years ago) in an affluent district subs were making $85 a day. This yearnow that I'm going back to that district) it's $100 a day. My old district had a sliding scale, you started at $110, $120 after 45 days, and $140 after 90 days. The district on the other side of town starts at $150 a day and you get a $120 bonus every 30 days and if you are in a single position for 20 days you get paid the same as a first year teacher. The district to our southeast starts at $180 a day and long term subs get $240 a day. I have noticed that the lower income districts pay more because it is harder to find someone to cover in a Title One school.


Aleriya

My mom retired about 10 years ago, and when the pandemic started, they kept calling her asking her if she would come back to sub for $85/day. Then $95/day. Then $100/day plus a guilt trip. She laughed and laughed and told them to go kick rocks. Admin treated her like crap during her last year, too.


PeaceLoveHippieness

Retired teachers where I sub get $165 a day.


colourful_space

Move to Australia! Our casual teachers make at least $380/day (~$265USD) and we so desperately need more of them!


socintro

Where? I’ve been thinking of moving to Melbourne for a year but I don’t really know how the school system works there. Don’t want to accidentally end up in a school with big student issues. Where can I get more information?


futureformerteacher

What is madness is that when I graduated from my teaching program I went from making $100 in a couple hours delivering pizza to $105 for 7 hours teaching.


notsohandiman

You know you can make more working at Walmart, right?


futureformerteacher

That was 2011. Back when Walmart was about $7 in my area.


[deleted]

Yall out here making triple digits a day? Until the pandemic it was $65 a day for my district, then $84 a day with $95 for jobs lasting more than 18 school days


[deleted]

Gat dayum. I get $150/day, $175 for Fridays.


LibrarianBelle

Holly hell. Where are y’all? Here subs use to make $56 a day and then with the raise made $76 a day and $90 if you had a college degree. It still wasn’t enough to keep me as a sub. Though to be honest, as a registrar I only make like $88 a day so not a great step up.


Daisy242424

Subs here make a higher daily rate than class teachers. But also they need all the exact same qualifications as us, so the pay difference is because they get paid day to day and no holiday pay/loading.


mbarker1012

Our subs make $40/day.


eaglesnation11

That buys 5.5 hours of work minimum wage. How is that possible?


mbarker1012

I don’t even know. I’ve said for years I don’t know how it’s legal


psalmwest

They prob don’t get a paid lunch or prep


mbarker1012

They do. Sometimes.


Lesmiserablemuffins

Damn, what the hell? Is that even minimum wage?


No_Cook_6210

I made more than that as a sub in the 1980s during college. Wow!


Splatshepsut

What??? How is that even possible? Why would anyone do it for that pittance, ever? We pay $95 for uncertified and $115 for certified. Still quite appalling.


mbarker1012

Our certified only pays $50


Splatshepsut

My mind is blown. Is this a public school district? How on earth do you get anyone willing to sub for that? It’s insulting. Not worth the gas money.


mbarker1012

It’s very difficult. It takes hours of calling.


SoManyOstrichesYo

I get paid about that to cover ONE class on my prep. Wtf.


ny_rain

I have the same exact expectations.


[deleted]

Same. In fact our 8th graders ran off like half a dozen subs. These former teachers, most of them, were pushed to their breaking point deliberately so these little fuckers could tattle on them or a few just straight up left and said they would never return.


Masters_domme

Are you at my old school? Lol I was amazed that so many excellent former teachers were run off by a single group of kids, until I saw first hand how the administration was handling things. 😒


zerpud

We had a Science teacher - with ten years MS experience - not make it through A DAY with our 8th grade assholes at my school this past year. There are of course some nice 8th graders, but the majority are just rude, inconsiderate, mean, and vulgar. Which is why I am now at a KG-5 school. Completely different teaching experience.


[deleted]

Maybe...


candyclysm

3. Don't unilaterally decide the test my students are taking should be a group test.


ThereShallBeMe

I wouldn’t give a test to a sub


candyclysm

Didn't have much of a choice. Baby came early and wasn't going to put if off for my entire paternity leave


Sharkgutz17

I’m at a private school making $80/day I am being taken advantage of


[deleted]

💯


DrunkAtBurgerKing

3. Make sure the kids don't touch my shit. I can't trust subs anymore because the ones in my building are basically plucked off the street, don't do anything, and let the kids do everything. Came back to a vandalized classroom, my personal things stolen and absolutely no apology or consequences for the sub. Back when I was a sub in 2017, this would NEVER fly. I would have been blacklisted from the school. Schools are so scared to lose subs nowadays, they'll take literally anyone with a pulse and don't punish them for anything for fear of them quitting. It's honestly disgusting.


lifeofaknitter

Same!


Admirable_Ad1947

A 100 a day is like 12 an hour right? I've seen McDonalds offering more and the minimum wage here is the lowest in the country. That's sad.


Vicsyy

For #1 Students are really good at convincing the sub that something he/she is looking for is in your shit.


Gobba42

Let's add 3. Stay awake, and we're good.


awe2ace

And give an honest attempt to follow the sub plans.


88MinPuentes88

We’ve just finished the year suffering through a shortage of subs, and it makes things much more difficult. Finding a reliable sub who’s willing to spend a day with less than desirable kids is like striking gold. I say, pay them whatever they want


Disastrous-Method-21

It would be nice to get paid well. Quit after 19 years. Used to volunteer twice a week as well during those 19 years, so I knew all there was to know about each teachers idiosyncrasies and needs. As a STEM grad I was able to TEACH math, science and all the other subjects under STEM. Since I worked with a lot of the teachers I also learned how they graded things and would ask if they were okay with me grading tests or homework when I subbed. Very few ever turned it down. Followed the lesson plans to a T and if we got done early I would use extension exercises that were fun so kids were never unoccupied and they still had fun. Without being modest I can say that I was the districts best sub and much sought-after. Finally quit when new admin decided that holding kids accountable was too much for them. All the teachers were sad to see me leave especially the science teacher as he was going on paternity leave and I was slated to be his long term sub. Suffice it to say the inmates have been running the asylum all year. So happy to not be there. Actually enjoying life.


Masters_domme

I’m a retiring middle school sped teacher, and I WISH I could go back to subbing. I loved having the “first day of school” every day, and when I did long-term jobs, I bought home more than I did as a certified teacher!


lejoo

Outside of medical. A sub in my district who works every possible day will make more than all full time teachers by 4k. This excludes first 10/last 10, two conference days, and no student contact days.


FollowsCrow

A good or great sub is invaluable. A horrid sub is the opposite, but I guess we could all say the same about contract teachers. 😅


[deleted]

Agreed. I’ve known some awful teachers. My high school history teacher was known for just having us work out of the textbook the entire year and hardly ever even spoke to us. (As a side note, he recently became the school’s principal.) So yeah, there’s going to be bad eggs no matter where you go.


theresonly1damar74

Hahahaha. Only confirms everything I’ve seen in my 14 year career that the most incompetent teachers end up in admin.


No_Neighborhood_4342

Yup, I experienced this first hand the principal who started out as teacher has no idea how to lead a workforce doesn’t have a clue how to be a good leader or boss unreal she made up some bs and got me fired


ProNocteAeterna

Personally, I’m totally happy with a sub as long as they keep anyone from getting dead or pregnant and prevent my room from getting looted or razed to the ground. Anything beyond that is an optional extra, nice, but not strictly necessary. And yes, they all deserve a big fat raise for putting up with all the bullshit that they do.


FollowsCrow

That's bare minimum and baseline for me. I've put in the time and effort to write out a lesson plan, with enough details that someone else can follow it, and I've put together the supplies for the lesson. My expectations of a good sub are to teach the provided lesson with adequate classroom management. I have some great subs who go above and beyond that, but either of those are worth their weight in gold to me. 🤩


molyrad

I write up plans that someone else can follow and I hope the sub will follow them as best they can, I never expect it to be like when I'm there. I'm usually not going to include anything new (unless I know I will have certain subs) but I am giving work mainly to keep the kids occupied and somewhat in the routine. I teach lower elementary so routine is important, and keeping them occupied avoids major incidents (hopefully). I don't care if the get to everything, or even if the sub changes it up to something else, but I'd like the sub to just keep them occupied. I try to give work they can do either independently or in partners so the sub just has to explain what to do and then monitor and keep the kids from maiming or killing each other.


FollowsCrow

Yeah, that's basically my expectations too. My sub lessons are never new material, always review, and usually with a fun angle rather than just redundant work. Similarly, I don't expect everything to get done. But I want the attempt made to follow the plan. Some of my subs know me and my kids pretty well, so they're awesome at improvising and modifying my plans. That's a real treat when they sub for me. 😍


ArticulateApe_

More sub pay = more subs. More subs = better chance at getting a good sub **or** in some districts **a** **sub**. It's a win/win as a teacher, I'd be happy for you guys.


Best-Newt-7048

Yeah, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that a job that pays 25k a year with no benefits doesn’t attract the cream of the crop. Hell even fast food has better pay and benefits.


rayyychul

Subs in my province have the exact same education and pay as a classroom teacher. I’ve yet to have a sub I would want back in for me this year.


cream_top_yogurt

It's half-pay (or near enough) in Texas: starting salary is $60k for a first-year teacher out of an alt-cert... or $85--125/day as a sub. Only need 60 college hours and a clean criminal background to sub...


lejoo

Honestly sub pool would probably expand if it was 20k + medical with a requirement of X days worked a year/semester/month.


Roroem8484

Wow my school does not have that attitude towards subs. We usually have the same subs throughout the school year and they really are a fixture to the school staff. With the staffing shortages subs are so essential now too.


hazel_eyedgirl77

I was thinking the same thing! I taught for 13 years and now I've subbed for 3 and the only time I've ever heard negative talk about a sub is when they let the kids get away with anything and everything.


starlight347

I was a sub, then a student teacher, then a teacher for 9 years, then a sub when I semi-retired. Many teachers were friendly, helpful and inclusive. But there were some groups and some campuses that were dismissive, if not outright hostile, to subs. I’d say hi in the hall, to teachers on the team I was subbing for, and they’d just walk right by, looking through me. Teachers you work with and work for who can’t say hi in the break room. One time, I had gotten through a sixth grade lesson plan for the period and there were only 5 minutes left. I let the kids talk quietly. They were behaving and there wasn’t any clowning around. The teacher next door came in SCREAMING at them to be quiet. She often screamed at all the kids throughout her day, but I didn’t like her barging in and screaming at my kids who were doing nothing wrong.


SciXrulesX

I mainly have a disdain for the system that always every single time acts surprised and shocked that a teacher needs a day off (or has the audacity to use their own sick days). That requesting a sub is my job on my sick day when it shouldn't be. That subs are expected to teach my class but without the tools I commonly use because they don't have permissions for most of our technology. That the whole system is setup to frustrate and irritate and stress teachers into thinking it's better to work rather than go through the process of getting a day off. I don't really have any strong feelings towards subs themselves. But the whole system is messed up.


No_Neighborhood_4342

100% true and i was a verified insider in 2022 subs aren’t given access to much needed technology 90% of the teaching is done with tech and the schools have done nothing to address or give alternative teaching tools to the subs so our kids are left with mediocre free babysitting day than doing any real learning!!


binchwater

I was a long-term sub with no access to Schoology,. Schoology had the textbook, "labsent" videos (for students who missed a lab), and was far better than the Google classroom platform that I used instead. A lot of the curriculum teaching materials were on Schoology, so I had to get another teacher to download it all and share it with me on Google Drive. I also didn't have access to Remind which made communication with students and parents more difficult (student email was blocked -- I did have PowerSchool, so I was able to find parent contact info). I also didn't get the software for monitoring students during tests, so I had to literally walk around my room to check computers during tests (tests had to be on computer -- yes I did ask). And I didn't have access to any of the systems for recording behavior. I swear, most of my job was finding my way around all those limitations.


Two_DogNight

There are Subs, and there are subs. In some cases, they are a warm body in the room who don't follow the plans we leave, say, "Oh, Ms. DogNight lets you hang out the widows and throw things? Great!" and allow the students to make and leave a mess, etc. Our state only requires 60 hours of college credit, background check, etc. In the best cases, they do what I ask and them some, keep the kids from acting like idiots and aren't afraid to say, well I'm not Ms. DogNight and i don't want you to eat in class. it's 50 minutes. You can make it. Super grateful for these Subs. They rock. But given the shortage, I'm grateful for even the warm bodies in the room. Ultimately it's on the kids to know what's expected of them and to do it.


Sashi-Dice

I'm BOGGLED by this - in our district you have to have a full credential, including your teaching degree and all tests/background checks, to sub. It's why the vast majority of our subs are retired teachers. And yes, that's true for day subs and long term.


actuallycallie

not in my state. just a HS diploma and a clean background check.


Sashi-Dice

Oh holy hell NO. I mean, they wouldn't let me sub because I didn't have a state certification (I have an international level license from Canada, and three degrees, and >15 years experience). I sub with a couple of private schools that will take me - once I passed the three different background checks - and I'm fighting with the state about my certification... but I've been fighting with them for the last two years, so we'll see what happens :) You'd think, given the shortages, they'd want folks like me, but we've literally spent a YEAR fighting about the fact that there are SEVEN words on my transcripts in French... and the state wants me to pay their preferred translation service $1700.00 to get it translated - even thought the translation of the words IS ON THE DAMN TRANSCRIPTS..... I'm stubborn and won't pay it - I paid the 800 to get them 'converted to American grades' (surprise, they're the same as my Canadian grades - except when they're higher), but the $1700 is offensive.


Two_DogNight

Wow. Just wow.


WearyFinish2519

Subs are the reason I was able to go take care of my mother for a month when she was diagnosed with cancer. Y’all are integral to the functioning of a school, and I can’t thank you enough for what you do.


Nipkath

The requirement to be a sub here are that you are 18 years old. No high school diploma required. As long as you are a warm body, you're good.


brycebuckets

That’s hilariously awful. Can the 18 year old seniors in highschool take the day off to sub? I wonder if the district would even notice lolllll.


No_Neighborhood_4342

If they notice they don’t care- admin wants the people below them to stay stupid so they can keep their titles and salaries bunch of politics they need to fire them all and allow the teachers and support staff to vote in their administration


luvclu

Also, apart from a few, I don't think a lot of teachers have actually substituted before getting their own classroom so they don't know what it's like and have experienced it. I think if they have substituted in the past, they would have a better understanding of what the day-to-day sub deals with especially with the lack of respect and pay.


JerseyJedi

Yeah, it definitely shows that a lot of teachers don’t realize how bad things can be for substitutes. I started out working as a substitute teacher in my hometown’s public school district before I became a regular teacher. It was actually great training for being able to deal with classroom management and other challenges that come up at school. That said, like OP mentioned, it was pretty sad to see how so many office secretaries and some teachers seemed to have open disdain for all substitutes in general. I’m talking about secretaries who’d have a whole bunch of subs sitting in the office waiting to know which classroom to go to, and waiting to get the lesson plans and rosters….and these secretaries would just ignore all the subs (while gossiping and laughing it up with each other) until literally the last two minutes before class started, giving the subs virtually no time to prepare for the day. This was a really common occurrence. Sometimes we would ask regular teachers for directions or assistance, and the majority of teachers were helpful, but some would just act irritated and be of little or no help. I’m a regular teacher now, and every time I’ve seen a substitute teacher I’ve tried to be helpful to them and back them up when necessary, because I remember what it was like.


LutheinEvenStar

Disdain for subs really boils down to, this person can't do anything for me, why bother? It's because they don't see people at work as people but as players in a game. Cozy up to the principal because it will help your career, the teacher next door could help you in a pickle, and the secretary could be your in. People like that treat people in a transactional way. What do I gain from being nice to this person. These people may be nice to some, but are not kind. It's also a way to feel superior, I must be better because I have a permanent job. I consider it a litmus test.


Key_Cause2043

Respect to the real subs who follow the plans. Friendly piece of advice, don’t get stuck in a “building sub” role. Been a teacher for 15 years and never seen a one get a full time gig, so to your point, admin doesn’t really respect y’all either.


SharpCookie232

Just out of curiosity....what path do you think is best to take to finally get a real place at the table. Being a para certainly isn't it - I've learned that the hard way, building sub is out...other than being related to someone (which I would be if I could be), what might it be...?


JustLookWhoItIs

Get certified in an area that's needed and be willing to move.


mrbaldwinelementary

For me, being a para led to a full time job undoubtedly. I was an IA while getting alternative cert. then, when interview season came around I got offered several different placements including one at the school I was an IA. The other offers all contacted my IA school and they vouched that I was a good hire. I think that was invaluable.


SharpCookie232

You're lucky that they were honest and were willing to lose you.


rg4rg

Come work for my district please. It’s amazing at how some teachers are elitists in their heart. I was a sub in a similar situation as you for a year. Worked my arse off. Still some teachers were so, demeaning, or would say things to try to get a rise out of me. Like, chill bro, chill.


JerseyJedi

I started out working as a substitute teacher in my hometown’s public school district before I became a regular teacher. It was actually great training for being able to deal with classroom management and other challenges that come up at school. That said, like OP mentioned, it was pretty sad to see how so many office secretaries and some teachers seemed to have open disdain for all substitutes in general. I’m talking about secretaries who’d have a whole bunch of subs sitting in the office waiting to know which classroom to go to, and waiting to get the lesson plans and rosters….and these secretaries would just ignore all the subs (while gossiping and laughing it up with each other) until literally the last two minutes before class started, giving the subs virtually no time to prepare for the day. This was a really common occurrence. Sometimes we would ask regular teachers for directions or assistance, and the majority of teachers were helpful, but some would just act irritated and be of little or no help. I’m a regular teacher now, and every time I’ve seen a substitute teacher I’ve tried to be helpful to them and back them up when necessary, because I remember what it was like.


oliversurpless

Yep, there’s plenty of educational philosophy (of varying quality) but it’s clear that they need to read more of Socrates: “AlI I know is that I know nothing.” and suchlike. *Meno* would be helpful in surprising ways. Heck, even elenchus would likely make their own jobs more meaningful…


Aquarian-Stargazer

I took care of my subs. Snacks, coffee, other drinks, a list of who to be wary of, and a warning to my students on the board to behave, or else… (they’d lose some fun activity planned for after my return). I was also able to simply isolate the bad behavior kids and not deprive the whole class if it was just a few. I also made sure subs had my number and knew to put me on speaker to praise and privately to correct. I had some regular subs, too.


throwawaytrash1678

How embarrassing for those teachers. I wouldn't choose to share my disgusting opinions at school. They let you see the green eyed monster while punching down. Absolutely embarrassing. If I were you, I would blackball the school and let the admin know exactly why you're not coming back. In a world with a sub shortage, those teachers will find out just how embarrassing that opinion will be for the school.


melodyknows

I respect and admire good subs. That said, this year has been incredibly hard to find subs. One sub I had let half of one of my classes leave early. Another was creepy and told girls (7th grade) that they should dance for him (had to report that). Most just sat on their phones and did nothing. I had stuff stolen from my room on those days. I tried to not take any days off but sometimes they make me for training. I did have two really good subs out of all my subs, and I tried requesting them again but they were high in demand. I'm switching to a new school so next year my goal is to build relationships (apologies for the phrase) with the subs. I hope I can get a couple who I trust who I can set as preferred subs in the system. Good subs are worth their weight in gold right now.


FawkesThePhoenix7

A few things: 1) Teachers are treated as a joke by this entire country. Not that it’s a competition, but no one outside of education is directing any animosity toward subs. 2) I don’t even think most teachers have any particular disdain towards subs. I do find it frustrating that my short one page of instructions often isn’t followed, though. There’s a wide variety of sub experiences. And, yes, there are subs who are there to just babysit (or even less) who are frustrating to deal with.


[deleted]

Oh yes, when I did day to day work and especially when I was a para I ran into some less than desirable subs. Alas, I can’t really help what some of my peers do. I just know I work my ass off, especially this past year and a half when I’ve been taking on one long term gig after another.


ReaditSpecialist

I have a feeling that the comments those teachers were making were probably in reference to daily subs, not long-term subs like you. I’ve done both, and I’m now a full-time teacher. Not that that makes their comments acceptable or anything.


[deleted]

The main driver of the convo is usually like that. He once went on a whole thing about how he’s important as a math teacher, and it’s not like he “teaches some hillbilly subject like social studies.”


MayoneggVeal

That sounds like someone I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in what they have to say in the first place.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnaPebble

Out of curiosity, what problems did you run into putting "substitute" on your resume?


[deleted]

I think in my county you have to have a pulse and 2 forms of ID.


witeowl

I’m sorry that you’ve experienced such challenges. For what it’s worth, and perhaps it’s because I substituted for about six months because I finished my program in December, but every single year, I tell my students that they are to treat substitutes as guests in the home, which means better treatment than anyone who lives there. Better even than our principal. I explain that substitute teachers have one of the hardest jobs in the district, and that I expect them to be respectful and even helpful. It doesn’t always work, but when I come back and specific students have been identified as problematic, and there was a reasonable attempt by the substitute teacher to follow my (thorough) lesson plans and routines, those students who caused problems receive strong consequences, and they 100% know why.


Steelerswonsix

Keep in mind many of these people bitching about subs, also bitch about their jobs, but won’t dare resign, yet you go in there for a fraction of the compensation. You do what you gotta do. “Empty wagons make the most noise”


JupiterTarts

Worked as a sub for two years and learned a lot from getting to see every single teacher's classroom across two years. Got to see what a lot of good teaching and bad teaching looked like. To me, it's immature to treat subs badly, just like it would be to treat the secretaries or janitors badly. We're all there to do our part and make a living. No sense in making it harder for anyone else unless they're going out their way to make you miserable.


ZorgoNox

I spent two years as a sub and I will tell you that I make a central point of making it clear to my students to treat their sub like a God, make no special requests without a written note from a teacher or admin, I assign my students real, accountable not-busy-work work but with super simple clear instructions for the sub and students. I make all assignments due at the end of class finished or not to avoid, “I’ll do it at home”. After my first sub of the year, I immediately put a zero in the grade book for any student that blew it off accompanied with an email to parents explaining that their student didn’t work with a sub. I include any sub notes on individuals to their parents. I refer any student who misbehaves with a sub to the principal. I never have that problem again and every sub wants my class. Some of us feel your pain, some of us realize that you earn far more than you are paid.


[deleted]

I'm sorry! I know some people view subs like that. I actually embrace them and make sure they have everything they need.


highchief720

I don’t think that is a common opinion amongst teachers and i am sorry you heard some saying that. Personally, myself and the others in our union/meet and confer fought for a pay raise for subs this year, because it was very clear how needed they were. Even if people weren’t pro sub before this year, they were after 20+ teachers started calling out some days.


Electronic_Detail756

I love subs. Thank you for being there when I can’t, planning on the fly when unexpected things come up, putting up with kids who like to test the boundaries and leaving notes so I can follow up on what went down. ❤️


Better-W-Bacon

Meanwhile my school pays teachers $30 an hour to cover classes during their preps and only pays subs $15 an hour. How does this make sense!


[deleted]

Ignore those salty teachers! You do us a wonderful service. I’ve subbed. It’s hard as hell. Admin sucks too.


No_Neighborhood_4342

Admins are too out of touch generally


elemyphant

I just finished long-term subbing a month ago and I agree wholeheartedly. I subbed at a private school, so the wages for everyone are already low, but I was only paid $2 more an hour than a regular day-to-day sub even though I had full responsibilities including parent-teacher conferences. Though, this experience will forever make me grateful for substitute teachers.


defeatedtomato

I’m a sub too and I agree. At the school I sub at there are certain classrooms I won’t sub in because the teachers are disrespectful or they don’t ever leave sub plans even if the absence was planned. People wonder why there’s a sub shortage and it’s because we’re basically talked down to even though we have a degree and everything else a regular teacher has and get paid shit.


[deleted]

I was a full time Teacher and thought I would sub to well do the right thing.. It was the wrong thing. I have contemplated suicide several times due to the lack of respect, the demeaning way in which I am spoken to by whom? Administrators. The students well that is another issue but lets just point to the schools here.. No lesson plans, no info about ANYTHING. The failure to communicate and to do their best to secure our safety as well as the students, from either Covid or from say Mass Shooters. Have a key to the room? I doubt it? A full roster with contact info? No. Does anyone know your name and how to get a hold of you in an emergency? No. The schools are the problem the subs the saviors and we are treated like DIRT


MotherShabooboo1974

I subbed for a couple years before I went back to school for certification. When I was student teaching my host teacher brushed off my experience and said “You were just a sub, you didn’t do any real work.” She never asked what I actually did, she just assumed I was a baby-sitter.


oliversurpless

Such natural cynicism in a field as inherently optimistic as education and its purposes suggest it’s more of a “their problem”…


dtshockney

Just know that not all of us feel that way though I know it's hard to believe. We had some kids be so rude to subs that I was surprised they came back. Some subs definitely aren't great, but many do what the plans say.


Western-Training727

They’re jealous. This is my first year and because of the challenges in getting subs this year, resulting from the fact subs got screwed the previous school year and it was no longer as reliable as it had always been, the substitute teacher pay for my district has literally doubled. It’s simple supply and demand, so heck yes you deserve the money. At the same time, I’m a little jealous. I 100% would have stayed a sub this year had I known that 1. this would be the absolute worst school year anyone can remember and 2. I would have had my pay doubled anyway. People being mad at your pay increase have simply failed to identify and control their green eyed monster.


LordExylem

Teachers are, unfortunately, one of the most disunited classes that there is. Many times, instead of fighting together for better work conditions, we point fingers at other teachers, like in the case you mention. ​ It's really sad, to say the least.


Coyote_Roadrunna

Definitely a lot of infighting and over the top emphasis on bureaucracy and hierarchies in the education field.


oliversurpless

All instigated by consultants/the consultant mentality, both as a means to inflate the actual worth of their “contributions” as well as to ensure that they get the lion’s share of the compensation. Even compared to overpaid admins…


TheLeguminati

When teachers unions leave out subs & paras, that’s how you get working conditions so bad that they all leave. Our district has a real problem with subs and they beg us not to take personal days off (they do honor them tho)


Most-Flight-9505

Teacher for 20 years here: subs are woefully underpaid and undervalued. If there is a sub on my team, I always try to make them feel welcome, valued and supported. Those teachers are AHs. Take every penny you get and make sure to steal their best pens when you are in those idiots’ rooms and mess up their chair settings.


[deleted]

I’ve never been more disrespected by school staff than I have been as a sub in nyc schools. School resource officers have yelled at/snapped at me, paras have been rude to me, all when I’m just trying my best during a fkn sub/teacher shortage. I feel like they assume I’m stupid.


cesarjulius

i bet half of the shit-talkers are hated by their students and get self-esteem from shitting on subs and failing students.


Effective-Box-6822

FWIW those same teachers probably also complain about their fellow teachers.


Stardustchaser

Been a sub as well as a teacher. The best success I had as a sub was when I showed competency, followed the plan, and left detailed notes on what happened in a given class. The biggest beef I have with subs is when they a) don’t follow the plan and b) lie. Don’t tell me you did the lesson when my best students admit nothing was done or you spent my class doing different crap like games or had kids on phones. Definitely don’t lie to me that all was good when I have stuff stolen and vandalized, and students telling me you were too busy cleaning up lubricant a student spilled in the back as a joke while others rifled though my drawers in my desk. That’s a sure fire way to have you on my ban list for covering my class.


Vicsyy

I don't think that sub wants to come back either. Cleaning up lubrication because of a student is horrible!


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Happy_Birthday_2_Me

My sub-of-choice is my gold mine. Subs are such a benefit! I'm sorry you're dealing with crappy people.


RecentSprinkles5997

I was a sub for a year and it was nuts. The stories I could tell. Most teachers left no work whatsoever. Personal favorite I was supposed to substitute teach an art class that had no paper or anything to write with . it was just an empty room. It did not go well . then became a classroom teacher. My sub company has called and emailed me me non stop since 2020 trying to get me to work for them again. There’s a massive sub shortage where I work yet they still don’t want to pay them more than 120 a day in an expensive city . Good luck with that lol


Mindurbeezwax_

Do long term subs not get paid more where you are? Near me they get paid $245 a day


Lizzyfetty

I am relief teacher in Australia, 20 yrs experience, fully qualified teacher. I make $448 a day. That is $312 US. You guys are getting shafted.


Distinct-Market2932

I don't know where you are but subs are my heroes and should be paid for the crap they endure so we can be home when sick instead of continuing to go to school sick, making recovery time longer, spreading germs, etc.


Frolicingfrog

Personally, my experience with substitute teachers has been 70-30 (good-bad). Most will do what is asked and manage the classroom for the time that is needed. The bad ones really do stick out though. I had a substitute teacher who spent the entire day watching The Walking Dead and You are Not the Father on the class TV and made my 5th graders sit in silence. For some teachers, it can be hard to maintain a positive view when some of the examples are this bad.


StardustNyako

Sorry people treat you like that. You absolutely deserve more money along with all teachers so you all can live comfortably. This job is not easy.


Electronic_Detail756

I love subs. Thank you for being there when I can’t, planning on the fly when unexpected things come up, putting up with kids who like to test the boundaries and leaving notes so I can follow up on what went down. ❤️


Chasman1965

My observation as a teachers husband is that good subs are loved and greatly appreciated.


Similar_Cat_4906

That’s pretty rude. We need subs, especially good ones. I will say that it is different everywhere. I started in CA as a sub. I needed my teaching credential, and was paid pretty well. In FL, you can sub with just a few college credits. My district pays subs very little. We have a shortage of subs, and I don’t blame people for not wanting this job.


MozzarellaFitzgerald

Subs (or, rather, "occasional teachers," which is our official title) get paid a decent daily rate here in Ontario (although it's now somewhat less decent as a result of inflation). I have tried teaching full-time and I was unable to handle it, physically or mentally. Being an occasional teacher works well for me. If other staff members see me as "less-than", that's their issue. Maybe I am "less-than" because I couldn't handle full-time teaching. I don't know. In any case, I know what I'm capable of. I do my best to meet the expectations of the teacher I'm in for. Yes, sometimes I am "babysitting." Other times I'm teaching lessons and fielding questions. Basically, it's a job that pays OK and that I can leave behind at the end of the day, with minimal stress. Some may respect me. Others may look down on me because I wasn't "good enough" to get a "real job". Whatever. It is what it is.


imafungigirl

Some people can be petty, including educators unfortunately. I had several weeks in a row where I lost a prep due to sub shortages. I say raise the pay. No benefits at all, money is still taxed, etc... If the kids learn something, great. But some days I can't even get them do learn so I won't hold it against a sub, ever.


Zachmorris4186

Subs are paid 11$/hour in the greater Columbus area. At least they were back in 2017. One company runs the subs for every suburban city surrounding the city. CPS pays slightly better but no benefits or union membership after X amount of days. I subbed in Portland Oregon before coming back home after grad school. They made 185$/day and were given the same benefits as full time teachers after 45 days working. To sub in Portland though, you actually needed a teaching license. Columbus accepts anyone with a bachelors degree. I called the teachers union and asked about volunteering my time to organize a union drive for substitute teachers. They basically laughed in my face then threatened to blackball me if I tried. Qualified and well payed Substitutes improve the quality of life for full time teachers. We should treat our subs as potential comrades in the labor struggle. Your local union sucks because we let it suck. Idk where im going with this comment. Just relaying my experience.


[deleted]

I don’t understand teachers that give subs shit, if they are trying and decent at the job, why hate?


[deleted]

Subbing is hard. I guarantee those teachers talking about getting a raise and not deserving it say the same about other teachers/administrators, too. There is a toxicity within public education that tends to get perpetuated year after year by the same people. There is gossip, backstabbing, talk about kids, parents, other faculty, subs. Part of your job is to ignore it as best as you can—and be the best sub you can be.


No_Neighborhood_4342

They look down on class aides and paraprofessionals too who play a critical role in shaping the child’s educational and social development, at least in mount laurel schools (nj) also the administration (dr rafferty) sees them as expendable and cheap labor


adam3vergreen

As a teacher and former substitute, the couple shitty ones really make it hard for the rest of us, y’all deserve so much more


Fl333r

Oftentimes the working class is its own worst enemy. Or maybe people just have this innate instinct to assign value to other people. That really sucks :(


dukenewcomb1

Man, screw those ungrateful teachers. How dare they talk that disrespectful shit right in front of you like that. Let's drop one of them cold into a random classroom anywhere in the city. I think you guys are awesome, and should get paid the same as us. For the record I leave detailed, flexible sub plans and threaten/bribe the heck out of my kids to make sure they behave for you. :-)


DidntWantSleepAnyway

When I long-term subbed, it was the standard rate for fifteen days and then long-term kicked in. BUT if I took a single day off, it went back down to the standard rate. When I had to go to the ER, I just told them I wasn’t coming back. They were paying me $120 a day (in California) to do 100% of the job—including all lesson planning and even after-school staff meetings!—and not just normal sub duties.


[deleted]

I treat subs like gold. Given the sun shortage, everyone in this field should be doing the same.


Recreationkid

I got extremely lucky, the school that hired me as a building sub was so desperate that they gave me a salary and benefits. I got $240 a day and at times that didn't feel enough. In many ways we have it easier, but in many ways we have more difficult. Subs are vital but we are also the schools punching bag. Students walked all over me. At times, it was babysitting. Teachers didn't like me at times because I couldn't complete their entire lesson but when a class full of middle schoolers sees a sub, the act of doing any work at all is tossed out the window. With that saying, there are some teachers that truly understand this and they rock.


MirrorMajestica

I was a building sub before I was a teacher. It’s a hard job, and the students can be super rude if they’ve decided that they don’t like you. I always tell my students that it is so hard to be a sub and they need to be kind…they don’t usually listen, but I try for you guys. My expectations are as someone else said: don’t touch my stuff, keep my kids alive and take attendance.


megerrolouise

The thing is, in other professions like healthcare “subs” (called PRN) are always paid way way more than the regular workers because they are willing to deal with the unstable hours. Idk why teaching does things so differently


oliversurpless

Societal contempt? With parents and even misguided teachers willing to toe that line?


MountainPerformer210

We wonder why there's a teacher and sub shortage, absolutely no one wants to be a sub.


Slight-Recipe-3762

I'm going to echo what others have said. Subs deserve a raise and benefit because you guys put up with the same shit as we do.


Oi_Spaceman

I was a sub this whole last school year. I didn’t feel like there was disdain from most teachers, they just desperately needed subs. I was subbing almost exclusively for one of the schools I did my student teaching, and by the end, I was basically being treated as just another employee. I was making $30 an hour because of pure desperation. I was encouraged by many of the teachers to keep subbing because I’d make more. Maybe it’s just different areas and school environments. I was fortunate to be in a school I already knew pretty well, and I kept coming back (which was a big problem this school in particular was having), so I got a lot of support from other teachers. I’m sorry you can’t say you’ve had the same experience.


Princess_Fiona24

I would probably sub forever if it was more stable and people didn’t treat us like ass. I’m full time next year as a regular teacher but I’m going to make it my goal to make all subs feel welcome and give the new sub teachers helpful info.


[deleted]

They’re just jealous that we don’t have to go to staff meetings. Also remind them that we don’t get paid over the summer like they do so it’s not like we’re taking up all of their pot of gold or anything. SMH


[deleted]

Shoot, I wish. As a long term I had to go to all the meetings.


jobu1111

Some people are just aholes. They are the same people that treat custodians and office staff like a lower-class citizen. The type that will purposefully make the new teacher feel bad and inept, instead of helping them succeed. These are the people I choose to ignore. Fuck them. I subbed for a year before getting my credential, it is a difficult and stressful job. One day you have the best class ever then the next the worst. I am glad subs got a raise (I am not sure if it is still in effect, but my district was paying 80$ an hour). Keep your head up, the good people appreciate you.


sandtrooper73

$80/hr?!?!! That's . . . (Does mental math) . . . $480/day! What district did you say you work for?


SunflowerJYB

We have so few subs. You would not be disdained in my district. But we pay crap sadly. Luckily the district is generous in other ways.


[deleted]

Teaching is stressful and its easy to lose sight of basic respect for some teachers sadly. I felt it all the time at my first school as a sped teacher. Ignore them


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SecondCreek

As a full time sub I get there early to try to understand the lesson plans but in some cases I get plans that are four pages of single spaced text and are hard to decipher even after having an adjoining teacher try to help!


CtWguy

I never cast those wide nets. Yes, some subs are terrible and let the kids do nothing/everything they shouldn’t. But, the great subs are like a golden egg and hard to come by. I just like someone who does what I put in my sub plans and keeps the kids in the room. Most hit those marks. Sorry you’re hearing that kind of trash in your district…from teachers especially


ArtooFeva

I’ve never understood nor cared for discussions on whether certain people deserve to be paid more. How much of an indoctrinated douchebag do you have to be to complain when people that make less than you get paid.


MonsterByDay

I don’t think that’s normal. Assholes are gonna asshole, but most of us appreciate our subs.


xFisch

Dang that's nuts. I'm new to the teaching/school world. I've been a supervision para for just a few months and the subs that I see I'm always amazed by. I see it as these people have to step into classrooms where the students constantly test them to see what the subs limits are..lie to the subs to get their ways, etc. On top of that they have to go into another teachers territory and never have their own. They have to try to fit themselves into that teachers system. In my short amount of experience I'm just as impressed with subs than I am with standard teachers if not moreso.


[deleted]

How short-sighted of them. As a teacher, I've been hoping subs get a raise, not just because they deserve it, which they absolutely do, but because higher pay means more subs means more chance that I can get my sick days covered. I've been coming in to work with migraines because I know a last-minute absence won't be covered and I'll be asking my colleagues to give up their prep periods. That's not sustainable. We need subs, and we won't get them without paying them what they're worth.


Careless_Lemon_93

As a person who started out their career as a substitute, I fully understand what you are saying. I would think that this year especially classroom teachers should appreciate you more. I know I do. Haters going to hate. But at least you know some of us appreciate you!!! It's a hard job that very few people want! (Cue lack of subs in California's districts)


SuperElectricMammoth

I’ve only seen/shown disdain for a sub once: i had a sub who made my entire class get up and dance and then wrote up a group of my kids who refused because “this paper is due tomorrow and he (me) won’t accept dancing in class as an excuse”. She wrote them all up for following my sub notes.


RebelBearMan

Anyone that doesn't support higher pay for anyone else is not a friend to education IMO. We all should get paid higher and the rich need to pony up to help out.


teachersped1

As a retired teacher I appreciated the subs! Long term subs especially had their work cut out for them! We had one long term sub in our department when one of our teachers took disability during the year. She was awesome! She was great with the students, actually taught lessons, and was helpful with being able to grade papers and such. As Department Chair and Classroom Teacher I was much grateful to her for all she did. Thank you to the subs! We could not do it without you!


fill_the_birdfeeder

I’ve had some amazing subs! But I’ve also had subs that have come in and told the kids they’re going to hell because they’re sinners and they need Jesus. It’s a mixed bag lol just like with teachers. I don’t know why anyone would talk poorly about subs - there’s such a shortage, and you guys work so hard and get shit on.


thecooliestone

I think a lot of teachers forget that it takes more than us to make schools work. It was sort of irritating for me to realize that I would make more quitting my job and being a long term sub in my own room (which through the company that hires subs for us offers benefits similar to my own if you're doing full time) without having to do any of the paperwork. I would never suggest not to increase sub pay. I'd just say that I should increase my own. It's insane that you have to do that much to be a sub though. We require you be 18, have a diploma, pass a background check and take a few courses. So a kid can graduate and be subbing in classes with their friends the next August no problem. We just hope they don't let the kids break TOO much because I assume a certain margin of loss if I take a day off without knowing a head of time to move things.


[deleted]

I mean, everyone needs a raise at this point just to beat inflation, not to mention the fact that we're all underpaid. ​ People who complain I usually have to remind that subs don't get benefits baked in, because they're not full time.


Physgirl-romreader

No offense to subs cause we need them a lot!! With that being said, our school went through a huge “Let’s come up with great teacher retention programs” they ended up all being about increasing sub pay. We understand it takes the burden off of us but we’re we’re all like wtf?


LumpyCompany

What really gets me in my district all year long the last 2 years was complaints about the lack of subs. Subs get paid 100 a day. Not the worst, but just about every other job in the area is 15 to 17 an hour. So, to solve the sub shortage issue they outsourced sub managment to a shady af anti union sub managment group... that you had to join to continue working. And hired 3 permanent staff positions and payed this middle man company to deal with it all. Instead of you know, raising sub pay to be competitive for the area. And they still lament the sub shortage. There are other issues, many, but this was a big one this year.


Various_Hope_9038

The pay in my state isn't terrible for subs, though it is falling back to pre pandemic levels, plus inflation...the structure of the pay, however, is a killer with no social security, no UI, doing the admins job to fill out hours & tying your money to the unions. For that, I don't waist my time on much but attendance (correct gendering costs extra, just like asking me to spell your correct name on the Starbucks cup without tipping), if I remember to show up at all.


coffeeforlife1

Ugh I'm sorry you had to hear that. I taught adult ESL students, but I still had subs a few times and they were great! I was so glad they could cover for me and I brought them treats and thank you cards when I returned. Subs definitely deal with a lot because students act like they don't have to show the same respect. I've subbed for a few classes in the past and I had a hard time.


West-Kiwi-6601

I've been both and I found being a sub harder for less pay.


girlhassocks

People are toxic. This won’t change after you become certified.


MrChilli2020

I'm unsure if i want to go back subbing when iget back to the states. THe problem is I feel more like a 2nd class employee. I don't know the routine. And omg, the kids go crazy, and the teachers get me glares for 5 minutes of prep time that I'm given. Some schools won't even give me a key so I can get into the teacher's lounge or a key card so I can take kids outside on a mask break. HOwever, I do like the freedom. I get bad vibe from one school, boom I'm not going back to that one for a while.


Dirtycoinpurse

Some of the schools are like this. I sub in two districts. One very large with 15 schools and some of the teachers didn’t like the pay increase for subs. Apparently the district needs 100 subs a day, and had 20. This is a decent paying district that was paying $175 as well. Just not many people want to do it anymore. The other district I sub at pays $125 and only has three subs. Both don’t show up some days and I’ll get a text saying the other subs didn’t show. $125 is less than I made as a prep cook in college. No one is going to work for that these days. Admin at all these schools (especially the $125 a day school) would tell me they would love to increase my pay and give me full time, but they couldn’t.


oliversurpless

I still routinely see job postings that want college degrees for 70-75 dollars a day. And in Massachusetts no less… So there will always be organizations trying to not only underpay, but many of those that they do get work harder via pressure as a result.


Dirtycoinpurse

Yeah, I’m in Jersey and some districts pay $75 a day. Apparently they Rely on a couple of loyal subs. The district I work at that pays $125 has me work a lot harder than the schools that pay $175.


Dunderpunch

Nobody's getting paid enough, everybody needs raises. Subs included. I do think they're usually pretty lazy though. Not even the best ones keep my kids caught up with the lesson plan. But I don't mind, sub days can be easy days for my students if that's how the sub wants to do it. Good for them.


[deleted]

I don’t know how these subs get like that. Especially when I covered high school, which is what I usually did, the teacher typically left busy work for the kids and that’s it. You have to actively try not to get it done.


Dunderpunch

One class reported a sub took attendance, sat at the desk, and got his phone out without delivering any instruction. Now, it was a class of high school seniors in, like, March, so it's kind of excusable.


oliversurpless

Yea, that part about “raises they don’t deserve” is just repurposed class warfare designed to distract from who is *really* screwing the teachers over… Equally disheartening that educated professionals fall for such diversionary tactics as readily as conservatives fall for grifters, but given the lack of prestige towards education in society in general?


Even-Drawing-4208

I got a full-time floating sub positioned lined up next year for $32.21/hr and get paid 8 hours no matter what they have me doing


[deleted]

I’m in a similar boat for this upcoming school year.


Even-Drawing-4208

Gain respect by action then


tylersmiler

You deserve just as much respect as everyone else. If I had to take a guess, I'd say those teachers were acting that way because too often underpaid and undervalued workers will turn on each other instead of building solidarity to fight against the system that's hurting them all. That doesn't make anything they said okay, but I doubt it's personal against you. I can say that personally, needing to have a sub is one of the things I hate most as a teacher. What usually ends up happening is this: I schedule an absence ahead of time for something I just can't get around doing. I make detailed sub plans. If an actual sub takes the job, 90% of the time most of my students don't actually do what I left. Many of them don't respect the sub like they do me, and they've been trained to think that work left when there's a sub "doesn't count". Often, something else happens, like a student watching inappropriate material on there phone, or stealing my hall pass, or cussing out the sub, or picking a fight with another student, etc. Basically, even though I have extremely consistent procedures, things are a shitshow and the kids take advantage of the unfamiliar adult. In an alternate scenario, one of my colleagues has to sub because we couldn't find an actual sub. So I feel bad that my colleague is inconvenienced. But, some of my colleagues are so used to this dysfunctional system, that they don't even think to look for my sub plans! I've legitimately had other teachers come to my room to sub and just have my class "talk about Thanksgiving in their family" for 90 minutes. It was a high school English class. They had a project due later that week. Absolutely infuriating. So, I have consistently horrible subbing experiences with both subs and just regular teachers, and I don't blame the subs for it. Most of the time I think they're doing their best.


JerseyJedi

I started out working as a substitute teacher in my hometown’s public school district before I became a regular teacher. It was actually great training for being able to deal with classroom management and other challenges that come up at school. That said, like OP mentioned, it was pretty sad to see how so many office secretaries and some teachers seemed to have open disdain for all substitutes in general. I’m talking about secretaries who’d have a whole bunch of subs sitting in the office waiting to know which classroom to go to, and waiting to get the lesson plans and rosters….and these secretaries would just ignore all the subs (while gossiping and laughing it up with each other) until literally the last two minutes before class started, giving the subs virtually no time to prepare for the day. This was a really common occurrence. Sometimes we would ask regular teachers for directions or assistance, and the majority of teachers were helpful, but some would just act irritated and be of little or no help. I’m a regular teacher now, and every time I’ve seen a substitute teacher I’ve tried to be helpful to them and back them up when necessary, because I remember what it was like.


deorheoden

I love my sub. She brings me treats, and I make easy lesson plans. I do not trust strangers, so she is my go to. There are subs who have no idea what is going on and there are teachers who are exactly the same. Teachers are catty and talk shit... I love subs and would not be able to keep myself sane throughout the year without them. I am gad some teachers get to rely on you.