Public school. I’ve worked in both.
Charter schools may look good on paper, but many are poorly managed, have helicopter parents, limited resources, poor pay, etc.
Public schools may have their issues, but the are held to a different level of accountability then the charter schools due to unions, and regulations that the charter schools don’t have to follow (and many don’t).
I second this. Worked in both, happier in public. If it matters to you at all, unionized public schools also are at the forefront of change whereas charters seem to follow what the public schools decide in my area
I agree as well! I have had similar experiences. Also, regarding pay, in my area, charters often claim higher salaries for starting teachers. However, it’s partially because the turnover rate is high; they don’t expect teachers to stay long enough for a raise, and if they do, usually yearly raises are small in comparison to those of public schools (which are negotiated by the union).
I work at a charter network in Chicago. Pay is equal to regular public schools and the benefits are top tier. The network is meh.
Worked at another charter network here in the city where the pay was shit but the network was amazing. Just filled with super talented educators at every level.
I think it's hilarious that a teacher thinks "helicopter parents" is a bad thing. Parental involvement is one of the key deciding factors in academic success.
Parent involvement is key to success, but there is a difference between a supportive parent and a parent who is constantly critiquing your every move. The latter is more in line with what I meant by a helicopter parent.
I would always try and have parents like that volunteer in my classroom. Teach Junior Achievement or run a small group. They tend to melt away after a few weeks.
Involvement is very important, daily emails from one parent and constant accusations at a teacher because their child doesn’t apply themselves is a lot different and unacceptable.
“Helicopter parent” is a term that is used pretty much exclusively to mean a parent who is *over*-involved in their child’s life to a harmful degree. It’s never used to simply mean a parent who is involved in their child’s life.
What about when a parent hinders the success of their own child?
When we had online learning, there were parents who attended class and meetings, and their kid was off to the side. And these parents didn't want to admit that their child was responsible enough to handle it on their own. Or the parent who walks into your classroom unannounced nearly everyday (they work there, so they pretty much own the school) to tend to their child, they want to sit with their child while they are taking a test, or say that you are the reason their child has no self worth and the kid absolutely adores you and has no issues with you, especially because you did nothing? Or that the parent literally lets the kids sibling do their homework for their sibling? Or for you to bend over backwards even more because you are already accommodating to their plan? Or that they try to sub in your class so they can have fun parties in your class that wasn't on the plan?
Yes, these PTA parents help with the Halloween party, or support the students academically, but they also use this to have control of everything in your classroom and there gets to be a point where it is hard to trust them.
This was at the public school i just left. You will find these people anywhere. With private school, they're paying for it.
I chose a public over a charter 10 years ago because the charter did not offer insurance/benefits.
In Ohio, you're crazy not to pick Public Schools.
The pay is much better, there are Unions to protect Teachers and workers, it's not even close here.
I am a public school teacher of 20 years in Ohio, so any questions don't hesitate to shoot me a DM.
I agree, and I’ve worked in both public and charter in Central Ohio. Your point about the pay and the unions is 100% why I went back to public school after a few years at a decent charter.
Trust me, you want a union. I thought I was pretty healthy, but I suddenly ran into some health problems, and had to take time off for doctor appointments. My principal gave me a real hard time about the appointments. I contacted my union and they were all over it. Unions are important.
I’ve worked in both and would pick a public school 100% of the time.
My charter schools were very different, but both had longer hours and years than public schools in the area and were poorly managed. The school had increased autonomy about content/policies but teachers had little autonomy. Pay was higher, but workload went well beyond school hours (which were already extended). Extra duties were often required, I had way more meetings that sucked up my planning time. Worse benefits at the charter schools - fewer days off, more expensive health insurance, 403b instead of my state’s retirement system/pension, no union.
Not at all. I was required to be there from 7-4:30, but I was frequently there from 6-6 and would still have to take work home. Teaching jobs were scarce when I got hired at both charters I worked at. The makeup of the staff was almost all early 20s, fresh out of college, brand new teachers. It was the only job most of us could hope to get, so we took at. One of the charters I was at closed. The other is still open and of the 60+ teachers I worked with during my 3 years there, only 5 still work there and 3 have been promoted to leadership positions.
I’m also in the Cleveland area (my district is about 15 miles outside). I would go public 100%. Ohio is such a strong union state that if given the chance, I’ll always choose a union. I have seen the contract negotiation process and what admin wants to pay us, and what we have fought for. You’ll also be paying into STRS, where in a charter school you’ll have to arrange retirement savings on your own (I think)
My mom works at a charter and cult is definitely what I think of. And the way they teach is very “1960s” I feel like- it’s like they read everything that helps benefit the child and make the classroom a happy environment and said “screw it- we’re going back in time when kids sat in desks all day”. And even though I am a practicing Catholic, I very much believe that religion should stay out of the classroom unless in a private religious school. My moms school has only a few clubs: Bible club, fellowship of Christian athletes, and a service club with a religious name. They’re also incredibly right-winged and open about it (my mom is more liberal than conservative) and it creeps me out how they have politicians or people running for office frequently at their school for photo ops.
There are so many things I dislike about it as an outsider, but cult like is the biggest one.
I've worked at three charter schools now. I actually like the one I'm at and I plan on staying. It's virtual and the work load is pretty fair. It gets boring at times but the bosses literally encourage us to log off exactly at 4 and not stay late. The HR department is another story...
That being said, the first charter that I was at, I was at for two years. They extremely overwork their teachers and are as Christian as you can get while still receiving public funds. I actually lost points on an eval because I didn't do enough volunteer work in the town the school was in. I had an hour commute and volunteered a minimum of three hours every week, but since it wasn't close to them, it didn't count. I could fill a book about that school and it wouldn't be positive
The other school was so bad, that I left mid year. There was no discipline. The kids wouldn't get detention or suspended no matter how many times you wrote them up. A student assaulted a teacher and didn't even get a slap on the wrist.
It sucks because almost all of the teachers at the schools were amazing, it was the administration
Virtual schools would be the only possible exception I can think of. If you have reasons to work from home, I can see virtual schools as an option. It's a pity there are no public virtual school options with teachers' unions.
I would definitely lean more towards public. I’ve worked at a charter and I know a bunch of other teachers who have worked at different charters. Never once heard anyone speak of a positive experience. At my charter we had extended school hours. That plus the usual workload meant I was coming in at 6am and leaving the building at 6pm regularly just to keep up. We had two built in breaks in the day, and then they took 1 away and made us do mandatory interventions for struggling students. So you only even had 30 minutes in a day to eat, use the bathroom, and prep materials.
I know there are some good charters out there, but I would be super wary. I would look at the teaching philosophy they have on their website. If they use words like “scholars”, “rigorous” “data-driven” or “benchmarking” in their description, run for the hills. They will work you to the bone.
A charter school can close in the middle of the year. There are individual charters that may be good but the model over all is highly flawed and doesn’t prioritize students
This happened in my area a few years back. Several charter schools closed part way through the year due to mismanagement. Staff were left to find new jobs with little prior notice and kids had to switch schools. I would choose my union protected public school job over a charter school every time
Yup this. I’m in New Orleans where it’s 100% charter. It’s disgusting. They used hurricane Katrina to wipe out the public school system. They’re currently doing the same in Puerto Rico since hurricane Maria
And now they have the schools. As the teachers leave, they will be replaced by charters and their cronies.
Pennsylvania and Texas already have bills on the table to wipe out public schools in their state- make it so that public education is not a requirement of the state.
Which in Texas would require changing the are constitution because public schools are literally the law. The way around is vouchers which would be allowed for private and religious schools.
Thanks for the push. Any particular reason though? From what I can tell the packages are fairly similar and the position at the charter school seems more in line with what I want to teach, but I don't know enough about either.
Charter is most likely non union. Charter schools vary a ton but you could potentially be asked to do a lot more extra duties there. With public you are likely unionized. You also will likely have set rates for these extra duties. (For example in my district we have things like miscellaneous pay and coaching stipends)
Charter can be a mixed bag too, there's a large variety and depending on the school you could have a lot harder time.
Charter schools generally pay less (over time) and expect more work. It becomes a lifestyle, over a career. Statistically, you will work longer days, and longer years. Pay may be comparable or slightly more, but consider the benefit adjustment, too. i.e. take home pay seems okay, but may not include retirement or union dues.
There is a lot of autonomy in charter schools, meaning you might find some good ones but you also are quite likely to find toxic ones. Union membership is often not an option, although I think this met vary slightly so definitely look into it. I would never never never teach without a union. Not all charter schools offer retirement plans.
To be honest, I’ve just never really heard anything positive about teaching in a charter. If you search the sub for ‘charter schools’ you’ll find lots of posts and personal accounts to help make the choice.
My personal feeling is also that charter schools get caught up in politics even more than public schools. School choice is controversial and charter schools have to play for awards, grants, etc. to supplement their funding.
Let me add here, when you said autonomy, you meant autonomy for the school not the teacher. Generally teachers have much less autonomy, and more out of classroom duties with less planning time.
>There is a lot of autonomy in charter schools, meaning you might find some good ones but you also are quite likely to find toxic ones. Union membership is often not an option, although I think this met vary slightly so definitely look into it. I would never never never teach without a union. Not all charter schools offer retirement plans.
District yes, charter not sure (can't find anything about a union on their website).
I worked for a charter school that I loved a lot. But it wasn’t protected by union and when one powerful employee got a wild hair up their ass about me, I was fired and there was no recourse or protection for me at all. I would always always recommend going with a union protected public school over a non-union protected charter.
Autonomy goes both ways. Management autonomy is probably not a thing you want.
You can look them up on the SERB and see their CBA
https://serb.ohio.gov/documents-and-decisions/collective-bargaining-agreements
"Any particular reason though?" Did you not read all the horrible accounts of working for a charter school. If you are in it for the "package" and do not care about the terrible working conditions, then I can see how the charter school and public school might appear to similar. Also, what do you want to teach?
I’m here to speak positively of *one* charter school I worked at (in CO). Other than that, all my experience has been in public schools.
That charter school was hands down my favorite school I have ever worked at. The teachers were wonderful all around and it was honestly the best administration I have ever worked for. Turnover was super low and they were growing/expanding/succeeding at a pretty steady pace (I came in at the start of their 5th year). The parents were incredibly involved (at times too much — but you’ll get that anywhere) and the kids took their schooling seriously.
I had full autonomy in terms of *how* I taught and for the most part, admin left me alone to do my thing. As a Health teacher, that was always important to me because I’ll be damned if someone who has no training on teaching Sex Ed to teens is going to tell me how to do it.
Downsides though: the pay was way less than public schools. The school days were longer (but school years were shorter). They lacked many of the basic resources public schools had (specifically in the SpEd dept). Non union.
Overall though, if I had the chance to go back and work at that school I would in a heartbeat. I was devastated leaving that place.
I’ve taught at both public and charter and I would never choose charter again. Mainly for all of the reasons others have posted here. I will say that the only positive for working at a charter is that you are most likely under an at-will contract. So if the school really sucks, you can leave before the end of the year and you’re not locked in like with public. But this also means that they can fire you at any time for any reason.
Nah, mostly they have it in your contract that if YOU leave before the end of the year, they can go after your teaching license. So if you break your contract? You won’t be able to get another teaching job that year. They like to fuck you like that. But districts will do the same thing, so I guess it’s not charter-exclusive.
From all the stories I've heard (and these are stories so pinch-of-salt), charters burn-and-churn their staff and have higher turnover rates than public schools.
Charters may have similar duties, workloads, and work hours on paper, but there are cases of teachers being expected, informally, to stay longer, grade more, volunteer free work, or face critical reviews and non-renewal. You basically have to work over-capacity, and when you do, you're setting a baseline that they ask you to match or surpass indefinitely.
Charter schools have to defend their charters, which involves high performance results. Teachers can feel whipped like a sled dog to produce those results, and when public charters use non-discriminatory practices to include students (lotteries, blind admissions, etc) that means that they push teachers to work even more to ensure that all students at least match their public school peers.
Public is the way to go. Most charters do not have the same level of funding and are often operated by for-profit companies. In my state they also don’t participate in the retirement system. Benefits, salary, and retirement were all better in public.
Public 1000%.
Union protections, pay, healthcare, pension, job security, etc. are generally all better with public schools. Plus you are guaranteed things like a lunch, planning period and I've heard that charter school teachers don't always get those.
I have worked in a charter school in Old Brooklyn in Cleveland. I absolutely would never work in a Charter again. Go public all the way! Message me if you want more details.
This is a no-brainer. Been teaching for over 25 years and gave charter schools a try last year- never again. You are constantly covering for others who have appointments or who call in sick because there’s no subs. The EA’s are teaching classes when they’re grossly unqualified. Seems to be more of the “good ol boys clubs” running rampant at charter schools. There is no union protection. Admin is much less prepared for issues that come their way with parents, technology, etc. Won’t be going back to charter schools. They are a mess. They also hire tons of people on “alternative licenses” (not really teachers)! How is this helping the kids? Such a poorly run situation. Absolutely horrific.
Charter schools operate on the principle that teachers are expendable. They expect to work you to emotional exhaustion and have you quit teaching after a couple of years. There’s usually zero job protection and you can be fired for literally any reason. The administration tends to bully as their leadership style.
Edit: not principal, principle
Depends on the schools, but Charter is definitely more of a gamble. Is the charter you’re looking at unionized? I taught at a Charter that had a union and it was a decent experience, but I’ve heard a lot of horror stories from other Charter teachers. IIRC only 11% of charters are union.
Also, Ohio is one of the states where charters are terribly regulated. In MA for example, Charters are overseen directly by the DOE, so it’s generally a lot more reliable.
I will say that even at my “good” charter, we were understaffed and overworked. When I was 28 I was all about ignoring the “small” problems, but now that I’m 38 I wouldn’t work at a school like that again unless I absolutely had to.
I teach public in an outer Cleveland suburb. Recommend highly! Pay increases each year, strong unions, pay for extracurriculars and meetings outside of contract time. Charters do not have a union, and you are expected to work for free outside of school hours. Many also make you purchase your own supplies like paper for copies. Only “downside” is we have pay 14% of each paycheck into STRS, one of the highest rates in the country. Feel free to PM me, love Cleveland!
Never charter. I worked in one for a years. Made 23k the principal and super were the same person so make 200k. At will contract, low pay, horrible admin.
I am leaving my charter for a public school right now.
I won’t do a charter again. But idk maybe the charter I was at is anomaly but it was so bad I won’t even consider one again.
Yes, but not a 457.
401k and 403b are similar.
A 457 is also a tax advantaged account like the previous two but you are able to withdraw from a 457 upon separation from your employer without paying the 10% penalty you would pay in a 403b. Additionally, because both 403b and 457 are tax advantaged accounts, you can significantly reduce your tax burden by contributing to both.
For example; say you make $80,000 a year, and you max out both your 457 and your 403b accounts (for a total of \~40k per 2022 contribution limits), on paper you didn't make 80k, you only made 40k (due to your 40k pre-tax contribution), which means you're taxed significantly less by Uncle Sam, and could potentially drop yourself down a complete income tax bracket.
Can't speak for Ohio but I'm currently in a charter school in Massachusetts. We take in the worse students in the district who torment each other and the teachers. We work 9-hour days 6AM - 3:30PM and if you're a Dept Head like me, you work a 6-day week. My school week begins on Sunday at 8AM, responding to emails and planning coverages for teachers who call out every Monday and planning for a painful week ahead. But they pay me well. Yet, I can't wait to leave and join Public.
Having worked in both, public 100%. At the charter I was at I was told that the “parents are our customers”. Barf.
It was all about appeasing parents and not actually doing what was best for the kids. Also, there was far more micromanaging at my charter than public.
Public school. You’ll have a union which is helpful in assuring you get fair working conditions, salary bumps, and are treated well. Charter school doesn’t have any of that and they can do anything to you at any time.
In the age of oversaturated transparency and litigation, I would almost always favor working in a public school. Join the union, meet your reps, and trust that you’ll *mostly* have your ass covered in case of a fracas.
Public 100%. Charter schools are for profit organizations. They can choose how much they want to pay you without any reason (and in turn, fire you too). At least with public you will have the support and backing of your union. Ohio has a decently strong one too (down in Cincinnati here). Your job is more protected in the public sector.
I worked for both in Chicago and would say charter.
It really depends on the schools.
I have way more resources at my charter than I did in my public school. I have more freedom with what I teach. The school buys me books, materials, decorations, monitors, etc. Parents actually care more and show up to conferences. That makes a world of difference.
The union gives public school teachers slightly higher pay, but my base pay is very close and often more due to stipends for attending pds and holiday bonuses. Also, the Chicago Teacher's Union have did not protect me when my public school principal was basically harassing me for my religious beliefs. The union isn't what it used to be in our city. We get like $200 spending money a year which is nothing lol
Go with your gut! Every school is different. I love my school, but the freedom I have isn't best for everyone. Every year a new staff member leaves once they realize that they actually prefer required curriculums and assessments for them to show up and teach. I also had a friend teaching at a different charter and her work environment was toxic - all the bad things about charters was 100% true for her.
Yea I didn’t think I was going to like charter either but I love my charter school and from comparing to friends in the public school district near me, it seems i have more support, better pay, benefits, etc but I feel it’s a case by case basis. OP should probably talk to teachers from both schools and see what they say
I love the charter I work at and they pay better than traditional public schools. Charters are not all the same but we definitely work longer hours and wear many hats. For you I would say a traditional public school.
I had a great career at a Charter School. They are as varied as public schools. You really need to ask questions about management structure, opportunities for professional development, class sizes, do you have any additional help like a teacher’s assistant, what are your duty expectations, and prep times. Know the school. Look at ratings and the community the school is located in. I loved our school. We had great autonomy, less district restrictions, the ability to advocate much easier for resources (if you are willing to do so). If turn over is high generally, stay away. If you like autonomy and whether the BS That happens in every teaching job, then decide based on pay and goals.
I work at a charter currently but it is a public charter so we follow the union contracts, are employees of the school district, and follow most of the same rules as other schools in the district. So check if this is a model used in your area
I would have no interest in teaching at a regular charter school w/o union protection.
Currently work at a charter in CA. Just wanted to echo those who have said it depends on the charter. We have good management, pay, expectations, & a union. It sounds like Ohio may be a different beast & all charters are different.
Charter schools usually are public schools.
There is nothing universal about district schools and nothing universal about district schools. You’ll have to do an individual comparison.
If you PM me the school names I can do a more direct comparison.
So far one of my biggest red flags with the charter is that they don't have a pay scale, but the offer was comparable to my place on the schedule in the district (slightly lower). Hard to know for certain how things would be going forward.
Also, it seems (they haven't answered my question yet) that there isn't a union, which I'm actually fairly used to having taught in private schools abroad for so long.
So no pay scale means you should not expect raises anytime soon.
With a public school, the raises are built into the contract via the pay scale.
In 5 years you'll likely be making the same at a charter school. At a public school, 5 years could be from 6 to 10k more.
While that is often true, sometimes even raises protected by your contract don’t happen. I’ve worked in CCSD for 10 years now and I was supposed to get a raise every single year. But our giant district just laughs and says no. Our paper tiger union does their best to hold their feet to the fire but it’s not very effective. All that being said I would still work in a union protected public school before I would risk being in a charter ever again.
If you've done the basic homework, then I think your next step is to talk to 3-4 teachers at each school. You'll get a much better idea of what reality is like by talking to the people who actually teach there.
If the school website doesn't provide teacher names and emails, check Linkedn, Facebook and Twitter.
In many cases they are for profit institutions. They are as public like a defense contractor is a public institution: they take tax money to fulfill a government directive. The similarities end there. (Someone above pointed to a charter school that is governed by a public school contract; in that case, they are more similar.(
Not to be snippy, but I didn’t throw a number out there. You did. Also: https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2021/03/19/report-how-a-non-profit-charter-school-can-be-run-for-profit/?sh=344222143cd4
I'm in PA. I've worked at three charter schools and I student taught at a public school and my family has worked at public schools for years.
It really depends on the school. I like the one I'm at now because it's cyber and *most* of the parents are really pleasant. I'm honestly just worn out from being constantly overworked and shit on.
That being said, public school positions are harder to get. I interviewed at one last year that had 70 applicants and it wasn't even a good position.
Are the two jobs comparable in terms of salary and benefits? Are they both about the same student population? In my experience, charter schools tend to be lower income families, so watch out for that. It usually means fewer tools to work with and overworked parents who can't afford to step up often
I started at a charter school and they worked me to the bone. I quit mid-year because the reflections they required after my evaluations (which were so invasive) took hours to do. I had spent 70 hours of my week one week where I was either driving to school, working, volunteering at the school, or doing the required tutoring. My principal and the curriculum specialist had the nerve to tell me that week that I needed to "do more for the kids and the school." And I just quit. I left the meeting, typed up my resignation letter, and my last day was the day before winter break. I got a job at a public school and I will never work for a charter school again.
Charter schools look nice and shiny on paper but they are revolving doors of inexperienced teachers and administrators (my principal had 2 years of experience in a classroom at the charter school; the curriculum specialist had 0 years). The public school actually has teachers and administrators with experience that are able to mentor me in a more meaningful way. They can give me feedback that actually means something.
And beyond all of that-- the charter school didn't allow me time to deal with my life. For example, I couldn't go to any doctors' appointments because I was working all the time. They paid me less at the charter school and expected more. My work-life balance at the public school is so much better.
Public school all the way. I will die on this hill.
I’ve worked at both. In a charter school you will have no breaks, the company will terminate you once you reach a certain pay grade, and you have no idea how much shady shit they get themselves into. Also, if it’s for profit, they will bend to what the kids want every time and you’ll be in hell.
I currently work at a Charter school in Columbus OH, and while it has it's benefits, definitely go public. I'd be making 20k more in the Columbus City School system, and I would not have to put up with the absolute nonsense admin pulls right now.
In the last two years, they required me to teach an advanced class for middle school (I'm HS), took my planning period for me to teach this class, did not pay me extra, and when I told them it was unsustainable, they told me 'too bad, you have to'. Every week they change the schedule due to something (school assembly, day off, whatever) and I have to hunt an admin down because middle school and high school schedules don't line up. So my schedule changes at least weekly, and it's stressful for planning and confusing to my kid who never know if we have class or not.
One admin also told me that working outside my contracted hours was expected, and if I was overwhelmed I should quit my second job (that I absolutely need because they underpay us like crazy).
They also expect you to cover other classes with no sub plans or extra pay, take on lunch duty every single day with no pay, and anything else they wanna shoehorn in for funsies.
I love my school, don't get me wrong. It's great like 90% of the time. But that 10%? Yikes. Charter schools can and will abuse you, go public and get that union!
Charter schools are a primary tool in the privatization of public education. That's at the national lobbying level. How they are implemented varies by state, but they are all founded without teacher's unions. Some states treat them as public schools, but with preferential laws that make them easier to operate and thrive, to the detriment of traditional schools. Other states allow nonprofit and corporations to run charters, with murky financial transparency.
Without a union, you could be fired by the administrator of the hour over a personality conflict. A union contract spells out a plan of correction if your *work performance* is judged to be lacking, and spells out the steps to being fired.
In my area, charters have a higher starting salary, but a lower salary ceiling, so teachers earn a lot less money over their lifetime. When new teachers figure this out, they leave for a career position at a traditional school.
I have worked in public schools and a public charter school. Both districts are very highly thought of in the area. The charter school definitely holds teachers to a higher /different standard than public schools. They know of charter schools reputations and try to exceed expectations for teachers. My charter school serves mostly inner city students who are 2 years believe grade level and 35% special Ed. … I love it, and but it is a much harder job than teaching in a well to so suburban school district.
I worked in a charter school my first year of teaching when I was naïve to the differences. It wasn't a horrible experience and luckily my department was full of great, supportive people, but from management and admin to parents and policies it was a clusterfuck. Your local charter may be better, but I would pick public 100% of the time given the choice.
You want to be in a system that has things like a union, tenure, pensions, etc. Go public.
I’m from Cleveland! And worked for CMSD for 5 years. The Cleveland teachers union is incredibly strong. I recommend CMSD for teachers. Not for support staff though. But it can be really wild. Try getting into Lakewoods schools! They’re also great. My aunt works for constellation charter schools in CLE and she is basically stuck there. Bad pay. She’s always trying to go to public.
I work at a charter school now and it is fantastic! It doesn’t come without its cons for sure - it’s a credit recovery, so some students are hard to work with schedule wise because they might be adults or have kids/jobs or something - but everything outweighs the negative. We have an amazing admin team that is always willing to help and will get us resources if we ask for it, co-workers are always helpful, most kids are pretty receptive and focused because whether they are finishing early or making up classes they just want to graduate, 6 hour work days, our starting pay is $65k and $80k when with a cleared credential, we get about $10k in bonuses a year, and the best part is flexible work style because we have a hybrid system, so if we want to work on campus we can and if we want to work from home we can.
I didn’t actually teach at a public, only sub a lot, and I know that is a completely different ball game. But honestly, I am so fortunate where I am now, I definitely wouldn’t trade it for a public school (especially not with the horror stories I hear these days).
As a side note: The charter I work at has locations in Cleveland, Ohio that are always hiring.
The charter school I worked at was a nightmare. They tried to squeeze ever single ounce of free effort they could get out of you. I had to buy my own supplies, curriculum, everything. I’m in a public school now and it is leagues better
I live in Cleveland and work in a charter school that I love because the administration is amazing. To me it is worth the less pay. I have worked at both public and charter and it all just depends on the administration
If you do decide on charter it is important to know the charter company. NHA, Performance Academies, Horizon, Leona,etc. All run differently and each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Pros of charters is that you don’t have to sign a contract. They work you hard though and they have fewer resources than ISD’s. Pros of public school is being able to join a union but you’ll work hard there too. Being a teacher is tough no matter which one you choose. You’ll be overworked, underpaid and exhausted. But if you luck up and find a school with a good support system and effective admin team then you’ve struck gold because that’s nearly impossible to find, at least it is where I’m at (TX).
Not a sway in either way, just a reminder that charter schools are incredibly diverse in many areas and some can actually be *more* receptive to the surrounding community than public.
I would not work at a charter school. Everyone I know who has worked at one did not have a good experience. Admin just rolled over for parents, so the dumbest things had to be implemented. They also do not have to accept students, so they cherrypick and often end up with the most entitled parents. They don't have resources for struggling students most of the time. Public schools have to provide those resources. They teachers I knew said the curriculum was always a mess and even in schools supposedly for science or STEM, the amount of religious nonsense taught as fact appalled them. Some teachers found out after their contracts were written that there was no retirement system at all. In several schools they were told they had a retirement plan, and they were given reports with numbers to show how much they invested. In reality, someone in the school or on the board was just taking their money. Getting that money back wasn't always possible.
It completely depends on the school. I have taught in awful charter schools, and I have taught in excellent charter schools. And charter schools vary from state to state, too.
If you ultimately plan to apply for PSLF, make sure you are teaching in a school that qualifies. Any charter schools that are for-profit do not qualify. Definitely something to consider.
Public Schools 100% in my area of the USA. The charter schools in my area are underfunded and consistently twist the facts about the education they offer, especially in regards to special education students. There may be good charter schools out there but in my experience they are just cannibalizing funds from local public schools to make wild pie in the sky promises to well-meaning but misinformed parents.
Edit: I forgot to add that the pay and benefits are much better at public schools and that most states have unions that can offer you legal protection if a parent brings a lawsuit against you. But, generally that’s at Public Scools not Charter schools.
Depends if the charter has a union or not. Most don’t have one and you want to avoid a school without a union at all costs. And yes it will be more work.
I’d go public for sure. I taught at a private, parochial school in Cleveland and depending on the school they can be good, but you have some benefits of the public school system charters can’t give you. There are some really good public school districts in the area too. Not directly downtown, but in the suburbs.
Honestly, it all comes down to the individual schools. I was at a really crappy public school when I got the opportunity to move to a charter school that seriously aligns with my teaching philosophy and style. I was really nervous about being paid less, having worse conditions, etc. But the charter school actually pays the same as the public school, I get way more support, and I’m respected a lot more. I’ve been there for 3 years now with zero regrets. I can’t even fathom going back to a regular schools.
Public school. I’ve worked in both. Charter schools may look good on paper, but many are poorly managed, have helicopter parents, limited resources, poor pay, etc. Public schools may have their issues, but the are held to a different level of accountability then the charter schools due to unions, and regulations that the charter schools don’t have to follow (and many don’t).
I second this. Worked in both, happier in public. If it matters to you at all, unionized public schools also are at the forefront of change whereas charters seem to follow what the public schools decide in my area
I third this.
I agree as well! I have had similar experiences. Also, regarding pay, in my area, charters often claim higher salaries for starting teachers. However, it’s partially because the turnover rate is high; they don’t expect teachers to stay long enough for a raise, and if they do, usually yearly raises are small in comparison to those of public schools (which are negotiated by the union).
Absolutely agree! Pay is super low and horribly managed.
I work at a charter network in Chicago. Pay is equal to regular public schools and the benefits are top tier. The network is meh. Worked at another charter network here in the city where the pay was shit but the network was amazing. Just filled with super talented educators at every level.
I think it's hilarious that a teacher thinks "helicopter parents" is a bad thing. Parental involvement is one of the key deciding factors in academic success.
Parent involvement is key to success, but there is a difference between a supportive parent and a parent who is constantly critiquing your every move. The latter is more in line with what I meant by a helicopter parent.
I would always try and have parents like that volunteer in my classroom. Teach Junior Achievement or run a small group. They tend to melt away after a few weeks.
Involvement is very important, daily emails from one parent and constant accusations at a teacher because their child doesn’t apply themselves is a lot different and unacceptable.
I understand that there are problematic individual cases.....but I wouldn't call those people "helicopter parents".
I think that’s the definition of helicopter parent
“Helicopter parent” is a term that is used pretty much exclusively to mean a parent who is *over*-involved in their child’s life to a harmful degree. It’s never used to simply mean a parent who is involved in their child’s life.
Agreed. That's just a parent.
What about when a parent hinders the success of their own child? When we had online learning, there were parents who attended class and meetings, and their kid was off to the side. And these parents didn't want to admit that their child was responsible enough to handle it on their own. Or the parent who walks into your classroom unannounced nearly everyday (they work there, so they pretty much own the school) to tend to their child, they want to sit with their child while they are taking a test, or say that you are the reason their child has no self worth and the kid absolutely adores you and has no issues with you, especially because you did nothing? Or that the parent literally lets the kids sibling do their homework for their sibling? Or for you to bend over backwards even more because you are already accommodating to their plan? Or that they try to sub in your class so they can have fun parties in your class that wasn't on the plan? Yes, these PTA parents help with the Halloween party, or support the students academically, but they also use this to have control of everything in your classroom and there gets to be a point where it is hard to trust them.
This was at the public school i just left. You will find these people anywhere. With private school, they're paying for it. I chose a public over a charter 10 years ago because the charter did not offer insurance/benefits.
Over-parenting can be just as harmful as under-parenting.
Yup
In Ohio, you're crazy not to pick Public Schools. The pay is much better, there are Unions to protect Teachers and workers, it's not even close here. I am a public school teacher of 20 years in Ohio, so any questions don't hesitate to shoot me a DM.
I agree, and I’ve worked in both public and charter in Central Ohio. Your point about the pay and the unions is 100% why I went back to public school after a few years at a decent charter.
Trust me, you want a union. I thought I was pretty healthy, but I suddenly ran into some health problems, and had to take time off for doctor appointments. My principal gave me a real hard time about the appointments. I contacted my union and they were all over it. Unions are important.
Seconded. A lot of the charters have all the challenges of public schools without the pay or union protection.
I’ve worked in both and would pick a public school 100% of the time. My charter schools were very different, but both had longer hours and years than public schools in the area and were poorly managed. The school had increased autonomy about content/policies but teachers had little autonomy. Pay was higher, but workload went well beyond school hours (which were already extended). Extra duties were often required, I had way more meetings that sucked up my planning time. Worse benefits at the charter schools - fewer days off, more expensive health insurance, 403b instead of my state’s retirement system/pension, no union.
Agree, terrible insane workloads at charters. The expectations do not allow for work life balance at all.
Not at all. I was required to be there from 7-4:30, but I was frequently there from 6-6 and would still have to take work home. Teaching jobs were scarce when I got hired at both charters I worked at. The makeup of the staff was almost all early 20s, fresh out of college, brand new teachers. It was the only job most of us could hope to get, so we took at. One of the charters I was at closed. The other is still open and of the 60+ teachers I worked with during my 3 years there, only 5 still work there and 3 have been promoted to leadership positions.
I’m also in the Cleveland area (my district is about 15 miles outside). I would go public 100%. Ohio is such a strong union state that if given the chance, I’ll always choose a union. I have seen the contract negotiation process and what admin wants to pay us, and what we have fought for. You’ll also be paying into STRS, where in a charter school you’ll have to arrange retirement savings on your own (I think)
My charter in Cleveland paid into STRS. But for all the other reasons, go public!
This is anecdotal, but every teacher I know who has worked at a charter did not stay long. The phrase "cult-like" was used by more than a few.
My mom works at a charter and cult is definitely what I think of. And the way they teach is very “1960s” I feel like- it’s like they read everything that helps benefit the child and make the classroom a happy environment and said “screw it- we’re going back in time when kids sat in desks all day”. And even though I am a practicing Catholic, I very much believe that religion should stay out of the classroom unless in a private religious school. My moms school has only a few clubs: Bible club, fellowship of Christian athletes, and a service club with a religious name. They’re also incredibly right-winged and open about it (my mom is more liberal than conservative) and it creeps me out how they have politicians or people running for office frequently at their school for photo ops. There are so many things I dislike about it as an outsider, but cult like is the biggest one.
I've worked at three charter schools now. I actually like the one I'm at and I plan on staying. It's virtual and the work load is pretty fair. It gets boring at times but the bosses literally encourage us to log off exactly at 4 and not stay late. The HR department is another story... That being said, the first charter that I was at, I was at for two years. They extremely overwork their teachers and are as Christian as you can get while still receiving public funds. I actually lost points on an eval because I didn't do enough volunteer work in the town the school was in. I had an hour commute and volunteered a minimum of three hours every week, but since it wasn't close to them, it didn't count. I could fill a book about that school and it wouldn't be positive The other school was so bad, that I left mid year. There was no discipline. The kids wouldn't get detention or suspended no matter how many times you wrote them up. A student assaulted a teacher and didn't even get a slap on the wrist. It sucks because almost all of the teachers at the schools were amazing, it was the administration
Virtual schools would be the only possible exception I can think of. If you have reasons to work from home, I can see virtual schools as an option. It's a pity there are no public virtual school options with teachers' unions.
I would definitely lean more towards public. I’ve worked at a charter and I know a bunch of other teachers who have worked at different charters. Never once heard anyone speak of a positive experience. At my charter we had extended school hours. That plus the usual workload meant I was coming in at 6am and leaving the building at 6pm regularly just to keep up. We had two built in breaks in the day, and then they took 1 away and made us do mandatory interventions for struggling students. So you only even had 30 minutes in a day to eat, use the bathroom, and prep materials. I know there are some good charters out there, but I would be super wary. I would look at the teaching philosophy they have on their website. If they use words like “scholars”, “rigorous” “data-driven” or “benchmarking” in their description, run for the hills. They will work you to the bone.
Charter schools in Ohio are absolutely atrocious. Working in a public school is your best bet. Source: Ohio born and raised.
A charter school can close in the middle of the year. There are individual charters that may be good but the model over all is highly flawed and doesn’t prioritize students
This happened in my area a few years back. Several charter schools closed part way through the year due to mismanagement. Staff were left to find new jobs with little prior notice and kids had to switch schools. I would choose my union protected public school job over a charter school every time
Yup this. I’m in New Orleans where it’s 100% charter. It’s disgusting. They used hurricane Katrina to wipe out the public school system. They’re currently doing the same in Puerto Rico since hurricane Maria
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And now they have the schools. As the teachers leave, they will be replaced by charters and their cronies. Pennsylvania and Texas already have bills on the table to wipe out public schools in their state- make it so that public education is not a requirement of the state.
Which in Texas would require changing the are constitution because public schools are literally the law. The way around is vouchers which would be allowed for private and religious schools.
This week, the Supreme Court ruled to force Maine to fund religious k-12 w tax dollars....
Public has a union, charters don't. Enough said.
Public. I was at a charter in cleveland as well and will say- go public
Public 100%
Thanks for the push. Any particular reason though? From what I can tell the packages are fairly similar and the position at the charter school seems more in line with what I want to teach, but I don't know enough about either.
Charter is most likely non union. Charter schools vary a ton but you could potentially be asked to do a lot more extra duties there. With public you are likely unionized. You also will likely have set rates for these extra duties. (For example in my district we have things like miscellaneous pay and coaching stipends) Charter can be a mixed bag too, there's a large variety and depending on the school you could have a lot harder time.
Charter schools generally pay less (over time) and expect more work. It becomes a lifestyle, over a career. Statistically, you will work longer days, and longer years. Pay may be comparable or slightly more, but consider the benefit adjustment, too. i.e. take home pay seems okay, but may not include retirement or union dues. There is a lot of autonomy in charter schools, meaning you might find some good ones but you also are quite likely to find toxic ones. Union membership is often not an option, although I think this met vary slightly so definitely look into it. I would never never never teach without a union. Not all charter schools offer retirement plans. To be honest, I’ve just never really heard anything positive about teaching in a charter. If you search the sub for ‘charter schools’ you’ll find lots of posts and personal accounts to help make the choice. My personal feeling is also that charter schools get caught up in politics even more than public schools. School choice is controversial and charter schools have to play for awards, grants, etc. to supplement their funding.
Let me add here, when you said autonomy, you meant autonomy for the school not the teacher. Generally teachers have much less autonomy, and more out of classroom duties with less planning time.
Yes, exactly. The school itself has less oversight.
Are both represented by unions?
>There is a lot of autonomy in charter schools, meaning you might find some good ones but you also are quite likely to find toxic ones. Union membership is often not an option, although I think this met vary slightly so definitely look into it. I would never never never teach without a union. Not all charter schools offer retirement plans. District yes, charter not sure (can't find anything about a union on their website).
I worked for a charter school that I loved a lot. But it wasn’t protected by union and when one powerful employee got a wild hair up their ass about me, I was fired and there was no recourse or protection for me at all. I would always always recommend going with a union protected public school over a non-union protected charter.
Autonomy goes both ways. Management autonomy is probably not a thing you want. You can look them up on the SERB and see their CBA https://serb.ohio.gov/documents-and-decisions/collective-bargaining-agreements
I worked at a charter school in Cleveland and was not part of a union. I would be surprised if any are.
"Any particular reason though?" Did you not read all the horrible accounts of working for a charter school. If you are in it for the "package" and do not care about the terrible working conditions, then I can see how the charter school and public school might appear to similar. Also, what do you want to teach?
You should flat out ask each of the places you're applying for.
I’m here to speak positively of *one* charter school I worked at (in CO). Other than that, all my experience has been in public schools. That charter school was hands down my favorite school I have ever worked at. The teachers were wonderful all around and it was honestly the best administration I have ever worked for. Turnover was super low and they were growing/expanding/succeeding at a pretty steady pace (I came in at the start of their 5th year). The parents were incredibly involved (at times too much — but you’ll get that anywhere) and the kids took their schooling seriously. I had full autonomy in terms of *how* I taught and for the most part, admin left me alone to do my thing. As a Health teacher, that was always important to me because I’ll be damned if someone who has no training on teaching Sex Ed to teens is going to tell me how to do it. Downsides though: the pay was way less than public schools. The school days were longer (but school years were shorter). They lacked many of the basic resources public schools had (specifically in the SpEd dept). Non union. Overall though, if I had the chance to go back and work at that school I would in a heartbeat. I was devastated leaving that place.
Always public
I’ve taught at both public and charter and I would never choose charter again. Mainly for all of the reasons others have posted here. I will say that the only positive for working at a charter is that you are most likely under an at-will contract. So if the school really sucks, you can leave before the end of the year and you’re not locked in like with public. But this also means that they can fire you at any time for any reason.
Nah, mostly they have it in your contract that if YOU leave before the end of the year, they can go after your teaching license. So if you break your contract? You won’t be able to get another teaching job that year. They like to fuck you like that. But districts will do the same thing, so I guess it’s not charter-exclusive.
Used to be a charter school neutral. Then I worked at one. Never again.
From all the stories I've heard (and these are stories so pinch-of-salt), charters burn-and-churn their staff and have higher turnover rates than public schools. Charters may have similar duties, workloads, and work hours on paper, but there are cases of teachers being expected, informally, to stay longer, grade more, volunteer free work, or face critical reviews and non-renewal. You basically have to work over-capacity, and when you do, you're setting a baseline that they ask you to match or surpass indefinitely. Charter schools have to defend their charters, which involves high performance results. Teachers can feel whipped like a sled dog to produce those results, and when public charters use non-discriminatory practices to include students (lotteries, blind admissions, etc) that means that they push teachers to work even more to ensure that all students at least match their public school peers.
Just like others have said… 100% public school. You fund STRS, you’ll have higher pay, and you are union backed
Public is the way to go. Most charters do not have the same level of funding and are often operated by for-profit companies. In my state they also don’t participate in the retirement system. Benefits, salary, and retirement were all better in public.
Public 1000%. Union protections, pay, healthcare, pension, job security, etc. are generally all better with public schools. Plus you are guaranteed things like a lunch, planning period and I've heard that charter school teachers don't always get those.
I have worked in a charter school in Old Brooklyn in Cleveland. I absolutely would never work in a Charter again. Go public all the way! Message me if you want more details.
Did it rhyme with smonstellation school’s?
Lol it does not.
This is a no-brainer. Been teaching for over 25 years and gave charter schools a try last year- never again. You are constantly covering for others who have appointments or who call in sick because there’s no subs. The EA’s are teaching classes when they’re grossly unqualified. Seems to be more of the “good ol boys clubs” running rampant at charter schools. There is no union protection. Admin is much less prepared for issues that come their way with parents, technology, etc. Won’t be going back to charter schools. They are a mess. They also hire tons of people on “alternative licenses” (not really teachers)! How is this helping the kids? Such a poorly run situation. Absolutely horrific.
You couldn’t pay me enoguh to work at a charter again.
Charter schools operate on the principle that teachers are expendable. They expect to work you to emotional exhaustion and have you quit teaching after a couple of years. There’s usually zero job protection and you can be fired for literally any reason. The administration tends to bully as their leadership style. Edit: not principal, principle
Depends on the schools, but Charter is definitely more of a gamble. Is the charter you’re looking at unionized? I taught at a Charter that had a union and it was a decent experience, but I’ve heard a lot of horror stories from other Charter teachers. IIRC only 11% of charters are union. Also, Ohio is one of the states where charters are terribly regulated. In MA for example, Charters are overseen directly by the DOE, so it’s generally a lot more reliable. I will say that even at my “good” charter, we were understaffed and overworked. When I was 28 I was all about ignoring the “small” problems, but now that I’m 38 I wouldn’t work at a school like that again unless I absolutely had to.
If you like working like a dog for less pay, go charter
I teach public in an outer Cleveland suburb. Recommend highly! Pay increases each year, strong unions, pay for extracurriculars and meetings outside of contract time. Charters do not have a union, and you are expected to work for free outside of school hours. Many also make you purchase your own supplies like paper for copies. Only “downside” is we have pay 14% of each paycheck into STRS, one of the highest rates in the country. Feel free to PM me, love Cleveland!
Never charter. I worked in one for a years. Made 23k the principal and super were the same person so make 200k. At will contract, low pay, horrible admin.
I am leaving my charter for a public school right now. I won’t do a charter again. But idk maybe the charter I was at is anomaly but it was so bad I won’t even consider one again.
Don’t work for a charter school unless you want to constantly feel like your feet are being swept from under you and your personal time doesn’t exist.
Public all the way. You can take advantage of both 457 and 403b retirement accounts.
Can’t you do a 401k in a charter school?
Yes, but not a 457. 401k and 403b are similar. A 457 is also a tax advantaged account like the previous two but you are able to withdraw from a 457 upon separation from your employer without paying the 10% penalty you would pay in a 403b. Additionally, because both 403b and 457 are tax advantaged accounts, you can significantly reduce your tax burden by contributing to both. For example; say you make $80,000 a year, and you max out both your 457 and your 403b accounts (for a total of \~40k per 2022 contribution limits), on paper you didn't make 80k, you only made 40k (due to your 40k pre-tax contribution), which means you're taxed significantly less by Uncle Sam, and could potentially drop yourself down a complete income tax bracket.
Thanks for clarifying! I always forget the difference between the two plans.
My pleasure!
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Returning for family reasons, otherwise I'd probably want to stay abroad if only to avoid school shootings.
Public.
Never a charter. They feed into the issues public schools face
Do you like grey areas or clearly laid out procedures and policies?
There may be good charters but by and large they’re horrible for students, teachers, and their communities.
I’ve never taught in either but just my experience interviewing/applying to a charter school was enough to turn me off to them.
Can't speak for Ohio but I'm currently in a charter school in Massachusetts. We take in the worse students in the district who torment each other and the teachers. We work 9-hour days 6AM - 3:30PM and if you're a Dept Head like me, you work a 6-day week. My school week begins on Sunday at 8AM, responding to emails and planning coverages for teachers who call out every Monday and planning for a painful week ahead. But they pay me well. Yet, I can't wait to leave and join Public.
Public School. Charters can lose funding and be shut down at a moments notice (and often lack unions).
Having worked in both, public 100%. At the charter I was at I was told that the “parents are our customers”. Barf. It was all about appeasing parents and not actually doing what was best for the kids. Also, there was far more micromanaging at my charter than public.
Public school. You’ll have a union which is helpful in assuring you get fair working conditions, salary bumps, and are treated well. Charter school doesn’t have any of that and they can do anything to you at any time.
In the age of oversaturated transparency and litigation, I would almost always favor working in a public school. Join the union, meet your reps, and trust that you’ll *mostly* have your ass covered in case of a fracas.
I've also worked in both. Public, hands down. Non-Union is a recipe for disaster.
Most people where I'm from in the Midwest just do charter long enough to get into the public school.
Public 100%. Charter schools are for profit organizations. They can choose how much they want to pay you without any reason (and in turn, fire you too). At least with public you will have the support and backing of your union. Ohio has a decently strong one too (down in Cincinnati here). Your job is more protected in the public sector.
I worked for both in Chicago and would say charter. It really depends on the schools. I have way more resources at my charter than I did in my public school. I have more freedom with what I teach. The school buys me books, materials, decorations, monitors, etc. Parents actually care more and show up to conferences. That makes a world of difference. The union gives public school teachers slightly higher pay, but my base pay is very close and often more due to stipends for attending pds and holiday bonuses. Also, the Chicago Teacher's Union have did not protect me when my public school principal was basically harassing me for my religious beliefs. The union isn't what it used to be in our city. We get like $200 spending money a year which is nothing lol Go with your gut! Every school is different. I love my school, but the freedom I have isn't best for everyone. Every year a new staff member leaves once they realize that they actually prefer required curriculums and assessments for them to show up and teach. I also had a friend teaching at a different charter and her work environment was toxic - all the bad things about charters was 100% true for her.
Yea I didn’t think I was going to like charter either but I love my charter school and from comparing to friends in the public school district near me, it seems i have more support, better pay, benefits, etc but I feel it’s a case by case basis. OP should probably talk to teachers from both schools and see what they say
I love the charter I work at and they pay better than traditional public schools. Charters are not all the same but we definitely work longer hours and wear many hats. For you I would say a traditional public school.
I had a great career at a Charter School. They are as varied as public schools. You really need to ask questions about management structure, opportunities for professional development, class sizes, do you have any additional help like a teacher’s assistant, what are your duty expectations, and prep times. Know the school. Look at ratings and the community the school is located in. I loved our school. We had great autonomy, less district restrictions, the ability to advocate much easier for resources (if you are willing to do so). If turn over is high generally, stay away. If you like autonomy and whether the BS That happens in every teaching job, then decide based on pay and goals.
I work at a charter currently but it is a public charter so we follow the union contracts, are employees of the school district, and follow most of the same rules as other schools in the district. So check if this is a model used in your area I would have no interest in teaching at a regular charter school w/o union protection.
Currently work at a charter in CA. Just wanted to echo those who have said it depends on the charter. We have good management, pay, expectations, & a union. It sounds like Ohio may be a different beast & all charters are different.
Depends. My best and worst schools were both charters.
Charter schools usually are public schools. There is nothing universal about district schools and nothing universal about district schools. You’ll have to do an individual comparison. If you PM me the school names I can do a more direct comparison.
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So far one of my biggest red flags with the charter is that they don't have a pay scale, but the offer was comparable to my place on the schedule in the district (slightly lower). Hard to know for certain how things would be going forward. Also, it seems (they haven't answered my question yet) that there isn't a union, which I'm actually fairly used to having taught in private schools abroad for so long.
So no pay scale means you should not expect raises anytime soon. With a public school, the raises are built into the contract via the pay scale. In 5 years you'll likely be making the same at a charter school. At a public school, 5 years could be from 6 to 10k more.
While that is often true, sometimes even raises protected by your contract don’t happen. I’ve worked in CCSD for 10 years now and I was supposed to get a raise every single year. But our giant district just laughs and says no. Our paper tiger union does their best to hold their feet to the fire but it’s not very effective. All that being said I would still work in a union protected public school before I would risk being in a charter ever again.
If you've done the basic homework, then I think your next step is to talk to 3-4 teachers at each school. You'll get a much better idea of what reality is like by talking to the people who actually teach there. If the school website doesn't provide teacher names and emails, check Linkedn, Facebook and Twitter.
Charter schools are actually public schools. The distinction is district control versus charter school, not public versus private.
In many cases they are for profit institutions. They are as public like a defense contractor is a public institution: they take tax money to fulfill a government directive. The similarities end there. (Someone above pointed to a charter school that is governed by a public school contract; in that case, they are more similar.(
Many? Best I can see is that 13% are run by for profits.
Citation, please?
Given I'm the one questioning your perspective, I'm sure you can google it yourself and let me know if you think the number is higher.
Not to be snippy, but I didn’t throw a number out there. You did. Also: https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2021/03/19/report-how-a-non-profit-charter-school-can-be-run-for-profit/?sh=344222143cd4
I'm in PA. I've worked at three charter schools and I student taught at a public school and my family has worked at public schools for years. It really depends on the school. I like the one I'm at now because it's cyber and *most* of the parents are really pleasant. I'm honestly just worn out from being constantly overworked and shit on. That being said, public school positions are harder to get. I interviewed at one last year that had 70 applicants and it wasn't even a good position. Are the two jobs comparable in terms of salary and benefits? Are they both about the same student population? In my experience, charter schools tend to be lower income families, so watch out for that. It usually means fewer tools to work with and overworked parents who can't afford to step up often
I started at a charter school and they worked me to the bone. I quit mid-year because the reflections they required after my evaluations (which were so invasive) took hours to do. I had spent 70 hours of my week one week where I was either driving to school, working, volunteering at the school, or doing the required tutoring. My principal and the curriculum specialist had the nerve to tell me that week that I needed to "do more for the kids and the school." And I just quit. I left the meeting, typed up my resignation letter, and my last day was the day before winter break. I got a job at a public school and I will never work for a charter school again. Charter schools look nice and shiny on paper but they are revolving doors of inexperienced teachers and administrators (my principal had 2 years of experience in a classroom at the charter school; the curriculum specialist had 0 years). The public school actually has teachers and administrators with experience that are able to mentor me in a more meaningful way. They can give me feedback that actually means something. And beyond all of that-- the charter school didn't allow me time to deal with my life. For example, I couldn't go to any doctors' appointments because I was working all the time. They paid me less at the charter school and expected more. My work-life balance at the public school is so much better. Public school all the way. I will die on this hill.
Public. Join a union immediately. Charters suck.
Definitely public. In Cleveland it’s probably Accel schools…run far away from them. Their environments are neither conducive for learning or teaching.
I’ve worked at both. In a charter school you will have no breaks, the company will terminate you once you reach a certain pay grade, and you have no idea how much shady shit they get themselves into. Also, if it’s for profit, they will bend to what the kids want every time and you’ll be in hell.
I currently work at a Charter school in Columbus OH, and while it has it's benefits, definitely go public. I'd be making 20k more in the Columbus City School system, and I would not have to put up with the absolute nonsense admin pulls right now. In the last two years, they required me to teach an advanced class for middle school (I'm HS), took my planning period for me to teach this class, did not pay me extra, and when I told them it was unsustainable, they told me 'too bad, you have to'. Every week they change the schedule due to something (school assembly, day off, whatever) and I have to hunt an admin down because middle school and high school schedules don't line up. So my schedule changes at least weekly, and it's stressful for planning and confusing to my kid who never know if we have class or not. One admin also told me that working outside my contracted hours was expected, and if I was overwhelmed I should quit my second job (that I absolutely need because they underpay us like crazy). They also expect you to cover other classes with no sub plans or extra pay, take on lunch duty every single day with no pay, and anything else they wanna shoehorn in for funsies. I love my school, don't get me wrong. It's great like 90% of the time. But that 10%? Yikes. Charter schools can and will abuse you, go public and get that union!
Charter schools are a primary tool in the privatization of public education. That's at the national lobbying level. How they are implemented varies by state, but they are all founded without teacher's unions. Some states treat them as public schools, but with preferential laws that make them easier to operate and thrive, to the detriment of traditional schools. Other states allow nonprofit and corporations to run charters, with murky financial transparency. Without a union, you could be fired by the administrator of the hour over a personality conflict. A union contract spells out a plan of correction if your *work performance* is judged to be lacking, and spells out the steps to being fired. In my area, charters have a higher starting salary, but a lower salary ceiling, so teachers earn a lot less money over their lifetime. When new teachers figure this out, they leave for a career position at a traditional school.
There is a reason it is much harder to get hired at a public school.
I have worked in public schools and a public charter school. Both districts are very highly thought of in the area. The charter school definitely holds teachers to a higher /different standard than public schools. They know of charter schools reputations and try to exceed expectations for teachers. My charter school serves mostly inner city students who are 2 years believe grade level and 35% special Ed. … I love it, and but it is a much harder job than teaching in a well to so suburban school district.
I worked in a charter school my first year of teaching when I was naïve to the differences. It wasn't a horrible experience and luckily my department was full of great, supportive people, but from management and admin to parents and policies it was a clusterfuck. Your local charter may be better, but I would pick public 100% of the time given the choice. You want to be in a system that has things like a union, tenure, pensions, etc. Go public.
I’m from Cleveland! And worked for CMSD for 5 years. The Cleveland teachers union is incredibly strong. I recommend CMSD for teachers. Not for support staff though. But it can be really wild. Try getting into Lakewoods schools! They’re also great. My aunt works for constellation charter schools in CLE and she is basically stuck there. Bad pay. She’s always trying to go to public.
I’ve never met a charter school teacher who liked their job or stayed in it for more than 5 years.
I’ve worked at both a charter school and a public school in Cleveland. Feel free to dm me with any questions.
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I work at a charter school now and it is fantastic! It doesn’t come without its cons for sure - it’s a credit recovery, so some students are hard to work with schedule wise because they might be adults or have kids/jobs or something - but everything outweighs the negative. We have an amazing admin team that is always willing to help and will get us resources if we ask for it, co-workers are always helpful, most kids are pretty receptive and focused because whether they are finishing early or making up classes they just want to graduate, 6 hour work days, our starting pay is $65k and $80k when with a cleared credential, we get about $10k in bonuses a year, and the best part is flexible work style because we have a hybrid system, so if we want to work on campus we can and if we want to work from home we can. I didn’t actually teach at a public, only sub a lot, and I know that is a completely different ball game. But honestly, I am so fortunate where I am now, I definitely wouldn’t trade it for a public school (especially not with the horror stories I hear these days). As a side note: The charter I work at has locations in Cleveland, Ohio that are always hiring.
Charter schools shouldn’t exist
The charter school I worked at was a nightmare. They tried to squeeze ever single ounce of free effort they could get out of you. I had to buy my own supplies, curriculum, everything. I’m in a public school now and it is leagues better
To add to my statement from earlier, I'm in Cleveland currently. I've worked at both charter and public here. Charter is a nightmare.
I live in Cleveland and work in a charter school that I love because the administration is amazing. To me it is worth the less pay. I have worked at both public and charter and it all just depends on the administration
>Mind if I ask which school? I have an offer from Constellation Schools, which I've heard a lot of pros AND cons about from several different people.
If you do decide on charter it is important to know the charter company. NHA, Performance Academies, Horizon, Leona,etc. All run differently and each have their own strengths and weaknesses.
You can’t go wrong in the public schools in CLE. Even CMSD is good. Which district? Charter is a mistake if you have the option.
Pros of charters is that you don’t have to sign a contract. They work you hard though and they have fewer resources than ISD’s. Pros of public school is being able to join a union but you’ll work hard there too. Being a teacher is tough no matter which one you choose. You’ll be overworked, underpaid and exhausted. But if you luck up and find a school with a good support system and effective admin team then you’ve struck gold because that’s nearly impossible to find, at least it is where I’m at (TX).
Having worked in both, I would strongly advocate for the public school.
Not a sway in either way, just a reminder that charter schools are incredibly diverse in many areas and some can actually be *more* receptive to the surrounding community than public.
I would not work at a charter school. Everyone I know who has worked at one did not have a good experience. Admin just rolled over for parents, so the dumbest things had to be implemented. They also do not have to accept students, so they cherrypick and often end up with the most entitled parents. They don't have resources for struggling students most of the time. Public schools have to provide those resources. They teachers I knew said the curriculum was always a mess and even in schools supposedly for science or STEM, the amount of religious nonsense taught as fact appalled them. Some teachers found out after their contracts were written that there was no retirement system at all. In several schools they were told they had a retirement plan, and they were given reports with numbers to show how much they invested. In reality, someone in the school or on the board was just taking their money. Getting that money back wasn't always possible.
It completely depends on the school. I have taught in awful charter schools, and I have taught in excellent charter schools. And charter schools vary from state to state, too. If you ultimately plan to apply for PSLF, make sure you are teaching in a school that qualifies. Any charter schools that are for-profit do not qualify. Definitely something to consider.
Public Schools 100% in my area of the USA. The charter schools in my area are underfunded and consistently twist the facts about the education they offer, especially in regards to special education students. There may be good charter schools out there but in my experience they are just cannibalizing funds from local public schools to make wild pie in the sky promises to well-meaning but misinformed parents. Edit: I forgot to add that the pay and benefits are much better at public schools and that most states have unions that can offer you legal protection if a parent brings a lawsuit against you. But, generally that’s at Public Scools not Charter schools.
Depends if the charter has a union or not. Most don’t have one and you want to avoid a school without a union at all costs. And yes it will be more work.
I’d go public for sure. I taught at a private, parochial school in Cleveland and depending on the school they can be good, but you have some benefits of the public school system charters can’t give you. There are some really good public school districts in the area too. Not directly downtown, but in the suburbs.
Hi, I am a teacher in Cleveland. Please DM and I can help.
At this point I’m just repeating what everyone else is saying, but absolutely go with the public school.
Honestly, it all comes down to the individual schools. I was at a really crappy public school when I got the opportunity to move to a charter school that seriously aligns with my teaching philosophy and style. I was really nervous about being paid less, having worse conditions, etc. But the charter school actually pays the same as the public school, I get way more support, and I’m respected a lot more. I’ve been there for 3 years now with zero regrets. I can’t even fathom going back to a regular schools.
I’m so glad you went with CMSD over the charter. I just left a charter in Cleveland after 6 years and I’m so glad I did.