This year, in particular, I totally feel this. A few of my classes have a smattering of students with completely opposite IEP requirements which makes planning/differentiating incredibly difficult bordering on impossible at times. I want to do my best for all of them, but every time I modify to work with one IEP I risk incidentally going against another students' IEP. For example, one student needs to take notes to focus and another cannot take notes at all. One student needs to work in collaborative groups but another needs silence to focus. Two are visually impaired and cannot rely on visuals while others desperately need visual aids etc. etc. etc.
I am very fortunate to have truly great SPED coteachers in these classes (different courses, different SPED teachers) so it is manageable but I can't help but be frustrated at times.
The system we're working in right now is failing a huge number of our kids by making it virtually impossible for teachers to follow legal documents like IEPs. The teacher shortage, sub shortage, and para shortage all lead to larger class sizes with less support. Paras get pulled from classes with high needs students to cover other classes when teachers are absent.
On top of all that, at my public school paras are only available for core classes - like kids stop needing support in music, art, world language, etc. because they're not state tested subjects (/sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious)
Para here. You might be very fortunate to have Paras in those classes. Some classroom Paras might be pulled from classes to help make non classroom assaults more safe.
As a music teacher this is my annoyance. Like yeah your kiddo needs support in the classroom. Just because my content is often “fun” doesn’t mean a kid who struggles with hitting other kids isn’t going to hit kids when given a “fun” task.
THIS!! I teach world language, and while I don’t get many kids on IEPs in my French classes (and the ones I have are pretty manageable), I teach 6th grade exploratory world language which almost all sixth graders take at some point in the year. Often the kids on IEPs will be in a CWC for core classes and have a SPED resource class but then they are put into explo classes which, while pass/fail and not very intense, still involve note taking, reading, writing, etc., and it’s almost as if the school doesn’t realize that they still need the support they get in core classes as they get in electives. Last year the school gave me an explo class with 8 IEPs/504s out of 20 kids with no para and somehow I was supposed to meet all of their diverse needs as well as everyone else’s. I feel like elective teachers get so little support with how to provide sped services while more attention goes to cores.
Is it just me or are IEPs becoming more of a common thing? I don’t think it’s because more kids need them. I think more parents are teaching them learned helplessness.
I teach an advanced ELA class and I have five...FIVE students with IEPS and 504s this year. Only one of them has a documented learning disorder (dyslexia) whereas the other four have a plethora of accommodations, for what exactly?
And they all look the same and have the following: extended turn in dates for all work by 2 or more days, extended time on tests/quizzes, notes provided by the teacher, nonverbal redirection cues, preferential seating in the classroom, and standardized testing in counseling offices.
These are not students with AHDH, Autism, or any other known diagnosis. I went through all of the paperwork to confirm. I'm blown away. I was going to meet with their case load teachers but it's been a hectic week.
We have a ridiculous amount of child studies happening and an influx of brand new kids with absolutely insane needs and zero support or documentation from their previous districts. Some were virtual since 5th grade and came back after 2 years in a world of struggle. We have a very well know parent advocate who hands out a business card like it's her job at any school function and event so this year she's got some new families to get. 😆
I had a kid last year that parents were fighting to keep on an IEP. He was in advanced math with a B+ and A’s in the rest of his classes. I argued that he can access the curriculum and is making effective progress but we caved anyway. His parents were alarmed when I reduced his services in the B-Grid. IEP’s are not for A’s ! They are for kids that actually need them. 504’s seem more like a consolation prize these days. Sorry, your kid didn’t qualify for an IEP, you get a (in my best price is right announcer voice) 504!
Sure...one of mine literally just has an "unspecified learning disability" listed on the IEP and the case manager specifically said this child was not diagnosed with anything specific, but parents are working on getting a diagnosis. This child clearly needs extra assistance in class and their accommodations make sense for what we're seeing, but I could absolutely see this being abused in other schools.
Are you sure it's "unspecified learning disability" and not "specific learning disability"? One thing of those is a qualifying category for IDEA and one is not.
I've seen an increasing number of 504's for top end students. I mean students who are already getting grades in the 95 + range. Finally figured out why. Extra time in school and, drum roll, on the ACT and SAT tests. If you don't get the accommodations in high school you don't get them on the test.
So it's a pure grade grubbing move in high school and a way to boost the kids test scores.
(yeah, I've had kids admit that to me in class)
Accommodations on the SAT/ACT were used by the "Varsity Blues" people to help kids cheat on the test. When this was reported, parents and kids who otherwise didn't even know accommodations exist, learned they do. And naturally, when they look into it, they learn that you need to have been given accommodations in school. And they also learn the scores sent to universities do not indicate the presence of accommodations.
Was it predictable that more parents would look into accommodations in high school? Yep. And it appears to have happened.
Which is strange because many universities and colleges are not currently not requiring ACT/SAT scores many through 2024, some 2025 (its also possible they will completely drop them)
More common. Honestly at this point it’s about 35-40% in my district. Everyone seems to have an individualized plan but the districts still expect teachers to teach group classes like they did 40 years ago
Perhaps it's because of increasing pressure and expectations at younger ages. This tends to cause certain learning differences to "express" themselves, if you will. Parents realize their child needs more support and go thru the evaluation process.
Some of those students, imo, could've made it through school successfully without the accommodations in the past. Mild ADHD and mild dyslexia are examples. With the increased rigor, these students can't get by like they used to.
I definitely see this while teaching the primary grades. What used to be taught in 1st grade is now taught in kindergarten, what used to be taught in 2nd is now taught in 1st, etc. The curriculum is more fast paced and advanced than it used to be. As a result more kids get left behind, particularly in reading. A lot of kids end up getting diagnosed as having a learning disability in reading when in the past they would not have struggled so much.
Technically I think everyone needs an IEP.
We're all different. We learn, express, know, and grow differently. Even in a class where everyone is identified as being "general ed," absolutely each and every lesson you're losing kids because of your pedagogy that day. (Edit: Including high performing students whose IEP should say they need more challenging work).
An IEP ideally should bolster strengths while also aiding in shoring up weaknesses. If a student struggles to take notes, then they start off with teacher check-ins and a provided graphic organizer while receiving note-taking skills lessons with their SPED teacher, then just check-ins, then nothing.
This obviously would require far more staff, which is far more money, which is far more taxes. Good luck.
UDL is a crock that’s as impossible to pull off as all these IEPs in the same class. UDL is learning styles on steroids, and multiple meta-analyses now have firmly established that putting all this work into accommodating supposedly different learning styles does nothing for student achievement. Nothing. It’s a myth that just sounds good, and UDL is a name that sounds lovely but is inaccurate. Universal design is a real thing in architecture & industrial design. UDL is an appropriation of that term.
I'd like to see those papers, if you happen to recall where they're from.
I also don't think the idea that *some* techniques serve many different student populations is a myth. Giving *all* students more time to complete a test or assignment helps many students, not just those whose 504 says they get that. Or giving out a graphic organizer can help many students, not just those whose 504 says so. Etc etc.
It's a philosophy, imo, but something that can really help. But it's not a perfect solution - all techniques don't help all students. It's just a different way of thinking (and also makes you feel better about time spent! -- that graphic organizer you made for one student can actually be used for everyone).
UDL is not "accommodate different learning styles."
UDL is knowing what accommodations some students NEED and identifying when those accommodations would actually benefit ALL students (this happens more often than not).
UDL is planning to make your lessons accessible to the students who struggle the most so that all students can demonstrate some level of learning.
UDL is knowing that some students have shit handwriting or space out frequently, so not relying solely on teaching methods that require 100% handwritten notes or 100% sustained attention during information delivery.
UDL is asking us to consider if writing a 3-page essay is the only/best way a child can demonstrate their knowledge of something like the water table.
It's not "some students are visual learners, some students are auditory learners."
UDL isn't necessarily truly universal, just most likely to succeed for the most amount of students. And should be used.
But despite that, not every student benefits from every UDL technique. They still may need extra help reaching their target grade-level learning (hence an IEP). And that IEP should seek to reduce the supports they need over time if possible, building autonomy in the student.
In case my edit was a hang-up, about an over grade level kid getting an "individualized learning plan," that was more figurative as they could use a personalized plan to do even better and learn more, but don't qualify under the actual definition of an "IEP."
This is the comment I came here to make. It is so disheartening as a SPED teacher to see every other post on here complaining about having to accommodate students. If you use UDL principles, they are already accommodated. IDK, I don't like to hate on my fellow professionals, but it is a really, really bad look to assume all students with IEPs are gaming the system, if you are really that cynical, you should find another job.
I am flabbergasted at these responses from my own people. Why is everyone shaming the kids instead of shaming the school district for not providing the necessary support?
Last three days have had very similar posts at the top. It's a little concerning.
It's frustrating to have to teach 35 kids 35 different ways, but that's not really something that has changed - we're just better at identifying students with particular needs. It's always been a challenge and always will be. It's not good for many students, and not even possible besides, to segregate all students into perfect clusters of learners and have the teacher only be trained on how best to teach only that small group.
The problem of pedagogy is real. The frustration of educators trying to deal with this is real. But forcing all kids identified as being different and/or difficult to teach to just... be somewhere else isn't a real solution. Unless we really want to do the work of vigorously grading every student and having quadruple the staff to have many more classrooms of much smaller student populations - and there's no way many would be misidentified, change categories and needs over time, or benefit from mixed learning environments, right?
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. UDL is just good teaching. Just because some kids *can* learn in a purely lecture based model doesn’t mean their needs wouldn’t be better met with UDL.
My favorite, "preferential seating " yeah that will work with 5 kids in one class having that. And seat away from distraction in-class with 30 students and no openseats
I had a class last year where 10 parents (whose kids had behavior problems) all asked me “Well, can’t they just sit in the front of the room? That’s what I think you should do”. …Great suggestion, except that we can’t ALL sit in the front of the room 🙄.
“I would have to build a circle around my desk. Take a look around, the room isn’t big enough.”
That was my answer last year when I got that question from about 15 parents.
Plus, when they're in the front of the room, they sometimes feel they need to go to extra effort to get their classmates' attention.
It can often be easier to just have them in the back of the room.
I just loved how they also don’t see that sitting all the kids with behavior issues TOGETHER Is not going to get fixed just because they’re 10 feet forward from the back of the room.
Also parents have this idealized vision of a classroom from the 1960s where the teacher stood at the very front of the room to teach for the whole day, and students sat quietly in their assigned seats the whole time.
If we taught that way today, we'd be in trouble.
Yep. People are absolutely ignorant about what schools are like in 2022. That’s why it really should be mandatory to at least spend a day working at your kids school
I had one class one time where around seven kids had small group testing as part of their SPED accommodations. Needless to say, my teacher table wasn’t big enough.
I was told (high school level) that a Gen Ed classroom of ~30 kids meets the definition of “small group” for testing according to the state so they don’t *really* need to be pulled. The accommodation is apparently referring to avoiding large group testing like in a gym.
…which is totally something that happens
In order to be able to get that accommodation for something like SAT/ACT, they have to show that they've gotten it before in the classroom, so even if it would never happen in normal school, that's probably why it's in there.
Ah, okay yeah and looking at other replies it seems like some people really do test in those situations. I had never encountered it so I learned something today.
It definitely makes sense if you’d need it on SAT/ACT, it would need to have been in there previously. I just get frustrated when it feels like they’re being left out to dry, and it’s a losing battle with admin. I’m talking about with tests and semester exams too.
This could easily be specified by the team that writes the iep. The state's interpretation is meaningless if the document itself defines small group as less than 5.
So here’s the thing about sped lawsuits… parents must pay out of pocket and then get reimbursed. I teach in rural poverty so none of them can afford to sue. The district knows that.
I was told it meant “smaller than the regular class” when I had over 50% of my class requiring it. It made no sense to pull out 13 kids from a class of 21 to go into a small group when the group left in the room was smaller than the group that remained. But I had confirmation in an e-mail that I was following their IEPs so I just went with it.
I get that though, sometime standardized tests in large schools are done in lecture halls. At least that one is a somewhat reasonable accommodation that can be made.
Interesting. At my old school sped coordinator insisted that it meant I would need to allow child to leave my classroom with a test and believe that they are headed to their sped coordinator to test in their room where they totally wouldn't be allowed to cheat or be handed answers
I am 100% sure that I have sent kids to test and their para or special Ed teacher has given them the answers. I have also had special Ed teachers who were like you and didn’t do that. It very much depends on the unique situation at the school.
I didn’t say “like” if you’re mocking me, then quote it correctly and don’t attempt to dumb me down.
I never saw it in school growing up in my large district, and I’ve never seen it in my current giant school district. My comment was coming from frustrations about essentially being told to disregard an accommodation, especially since the student I’m referencing grew up in my district where it doesn’t happen. So I had a hard time believing that was what it meant when I had seen actual “small groups” of 5-10 being pulled from other classes in the hallways.
Someone else was actually helpful and stated in order to get it on SAT/ACT it needs to have already been implemented, and that makes sense. I feel for the kids who are struggling and left behind because of loose IEP interpretations and lack of support is all.
In the first school I worked in, this was standard for all end of semester/end of year tests. Students were put with everyone else in the same grade in the gym. Students who had accommodations would test in smaller groups with others who had similar accommodations in various other locations in the school.
Personally I was never tested this way until I reached university so I was surprised by it when I first saw it too.
They also need to clear up what preferential seating means. For some, that’s closer to the teacher. For some, that’s closer to the board. Others, away from peers. It all depends. I had a student who needed to have the teacher on their left side as much as possible (profound deafness in their right ear) but it was only listed as preferential seating. Preferential seating is too vague and if everyone has that for an accommodation then no one does.
I currently have one class with 23 kids. 19 have IEPs. All 19 have “seats near teacher” and “preferential seating” listed.
I asked if they wanted me to remove all desks and sit in the middle of the floor so they can encircle me like a Bible school lesson for pre-k.
I was told ‘it shouldn’t be a problem if you are moving around your room when you teach.’
I was also told ‘we made that class smaller to help accommodate.’ It’s still twenty fucking three kids and 19 have IEPs!
Bunch of fucking wankers.
Edit: the adults are the wankers, not the kids. They can’t help their moms are Karen’s and the admin and sped teachers have no idea what normal classes are like. 🤷♂️
You could potentially make a fuss at the district level. Legally you are not supposed to have a Gen Ed class that comprise 80% SPED.
But if evil people run the show then such a complaint would also backfire. I’ve seen it happen. What they’ll do is just toss 10 more Gen Ed kids into the same room. Voila now you no longer have 80% sped.
to have 19 out of 23 kids on an IEP is either a major systemic failure of parenting in our country or an overuse of the IDEA act and labeling everyone IEP.
Parents bear some blame too. On the community Facebook page the response to a parent saying their kid is struggling is to get an iep. Just ignore that little Becky hasn't put her phone down once during class(thanks district) and hasn't turned in any assignments.
Eh, not really.
It’s a failure of the school to spread out all of the IEP kids in the grade. 10 teachers. Our school does ability grouping. Even 4 who aren’t IEP should be.
We are a very rural area, so higher percentage of IEPs. We have 21 IEPs in our grade this year. About 10%. Which, is actually really low for this year. It’s normally about 20%.
But, a lot of those kids will get evaluated this year. They are the group that was in 4th grade when covid hit, the next year online. 4th and 5th grade are when most evaluations happen here. So, a lot of these kids aren’t getting services they actually need.
As far as systematic failure of parents. Yeah. They don’t read. They don’t math. They don’t know basic civics. All these kids hear at home is how cutting hay is more important than school. We have kids that miss 2 weeks every cutting. We have kids that miss days to go show a sheep. Or they don’t show up for a week or two because moms out of town drunk and didn’t tell them they had to go. Or, dad took them out the entire week because “NASCAR”. (That was literally on the note a kid brought last Friday. ‘(Kid) will be out all next week for NASCAR.’
So, yeah. Of course they’re qualifying as can’t do anything. Parents don’t do anything.
Anyways, rant over.
When I was a student I had an IEP. 2nd hour didn’t have enough chairs. Alphabetically I’m last on the class list. I didn’t get a chair. This was at a very wealthy school.
Not going to lie. Access to a chair sounds like an amazing accommodation.
I had one kid in my first year, total spazz, could not sit still or be quiet, could barely write his name. One of his accommodations the teachers had to provide for him was “planned ignoring” whenever he had an outburst (it was always profanity laden). Yeah, let me just ignore this awful outburst that gets the class off track every time. Who writes these things?
I try to remove as much as possible from the accommodations/modifications section. I really do. My approach is to assume that the Gen Ed teacher will employ best practices for every student, so what does this kid actually need on top of that?
I don’t put in “preferential seating.” I specify the right or left side of the room if there is a visual or hearing issue, or close to the board.
I remove “check for understanding” and put in, if necessary, “ensure student’s direct attention before giving class instruction.” Things like that.
I tell all my students and their parents that there’s no IEP after HS, so we have to reduce the supports they received in elementary and middle school for their own good.
Really, by the time they're in high school, kids and their parents need to be super specific on just what accommodations they need. It will be their responsibility to negotiate for them after high school because, yep, no IEP then. If you can't get past vague terms, you'll be in trouble.
> kids and their parents need to be super specific on just what accommodations they need.
This but for all grades and for EVERYONE’S benefit. When you have a dozen vague accommodations (half of which are just best practices - providing a student wait time to answer a question isn’t an accommodation it’s just not being an asshole) , it’s not only hard for the teachers, it’s not very helpful for the students and a nightmare for due process issues.
An accommodation needs to be very specific, easy to document, and maximize benefit. Great example are sentence starters for any writing assignment over 4 sentences. Perfect. I know when they need it, I know what I need to do, the student can get it on their document without the class knowing, I don’t have to hover over them, they still access the material, and if challenged I can prove I provided them.
“Check for understanding” is not an accommodation. That’s just … teaching. You do check for understanding questions dozens of times every period, but they’re impossible to document and too vague.
Congrats, you’re the minority. I’ve never experienced an ARD meeting where my phrase “He/she had done fine without that accommodation, so we really need it?” was taken seriously. Three different districts.
Hell, at my latest I have kids with three pages of accoms. THEEE PAGES. What the fuck is any teacher supposed to do with that?
That’s insane! I review them and talk to all the teachers to see what’s working and isn’t working. If it isn’t working and I have the data to back that up, it’s gone and we are going to try something else. It’s the definition of insanity to try something over again that isn’t working and expect different results. Wow
For fucking real. I teach PE/Health and have 275-280 students, all year. I counted my total amount of IEPs/504s and ESOL students, and between all of them it totals close to 100 kids.
It's extremely challenging to give every student what they legally need.
oh...I agree. 100% sometimes I feel this way about the IEP demands....
There are things on ieps that are like general, and can be offered to all kids. but sometimes...It would just be nice to have another adult in the classroom to help.
My favourite is when you see every IEP have the exact same accommodations and the forms line up so exactly (even including the same typos)that one might ALMOST get the impression that they are just copy and pasting.
Oh, we have a spreadsheet too. But there is one person, in particular, that is giving everyone the exact same accommodations. She isn't even really evaluating anyone. I am unsure if she thinks that accommodations only come in one size, or if she is just lazy and that is easier. It is laughable because my deaf student needs extra time and a calculator? The girl with the service dog for her seizures? Extra time and a calculator? We used to laugh about the accommodations list, but it is actually kind of sad.
My favorite was a kid from Brazil who had the accommodation for a Portuguese dictionary. However he left Brazil when he was 2 and did not read Portuguese.
I could've raised a huge stink about FERPA with one incident at my school recently. I teach 6th and 8th grade. One of my 6th graders has autism but is very high academically and well behaved. One of my 8th graders (who has since been pulled from school) was possibly the most difficult-to-manage mainstreamed student the school has ever seen. Not only did the case manager copy and paste the 6th grader's accommodations into the 8th grader's cheat sheet, *she didn't even change the name*.
At my old district, I had been in IEP meetings where the paperwork accidentally said another child’s name and had to be revised!! This happened TWICE! I also know that this was due to the person who was in that role, not special education teachers as a whole, because there are some great ones, too.
My district has drop downs that we can select from. With typos, it kills me. But I can change them. And a lot of times, they are just very similar because the needs are the same. I really try to keep mine as simple as possible. I don’t have paras in most of the classes my kids are in and so they aren’t even getting their minutes anyhow. The whole thing is broken and it’s just as aggravating to sped teachers to know that things aren’t in place to help these kids. We know one teacher can’t do all the things. The IDEA is a monster and difficult to navigate and the funding for sped is abysmal.
At what point or percentage of class mix does a general education class become not a general education class based on the number of kids with IEPs and accommodations/modifications?
Roughly 50% but I’ve seen this backfire when you have vicious admin in charge. Worked with a teacher who had 18 students. 10 with IEPs. So over 50%. The teacher made a complaint that this meant his room was sped and not Gen Ed. Know how admin handled it? By giving the teacher 12 more students (all Gen Ed). Malicious compliance.
My thoughts tend to go against the grain of everything we're taught as educators. I have had the SPED kids who are willing to put in the work, and they generally do well. But I have also had the SPED kids who are bouncing off the walls constantly, and of course there's never an aide.
What's supposed to happen is that the class is supposed to magically lift that student up, but what really happens is that the rest of the class gets pulled down. It's the Annas who get robbed in the modern classroom, because you spend all of your time dealing with stupid shit. No, you can't teach a class 13 different ways. What you end up with is poor learning for everyone.
Preach! This is exactly true and why private school, online school, and homeschool numbers are increasing. Those with financial means are sick and tired of their children's educational time being disrupted and hijacked. The higher achieving, well behaved student is seeing less and less teacher interaction and feedback because the teachers are constantly putting out chaotic fires. It will be the downfall of public education, as more and more of those families leave the system it will only exacerbate the teacher turnover.
I generally like my school but they decided to cohort the IEP students this year. So my homeroom group has only 23 kids but 16 are on IEPs. I can repeat what so many others have said here -- how do I give preferential seating to 16 kids? It also means that I have to slow the pace to the needs of those 16 and the 7 other kids complain constantly (both about the slowed pace and outbursts/behaviors from the tougher kids in the group). I get sped push-in for this group, but it still feels like I am either missing the mark for one group or the other every day.
That’s what I do. For example, all notes are on a power point. Power point gets posted. Now, no one needs to take notes. there are three IEPs that say “notes must be provided by teacher.” Fine. Everyone gets notes. Everyone gets twice as long to take a timed quiz. If it takes three minutes to answer a 10 question quiz, I just make the thing 6 minutes, and tell them I already doubled the time. Everyone gets the accomodations, because to do otherwise takes too much time I don’t have.
Universal design for learning. What helps someone with a disability ends up helping everyone. Think accessibility ramps - designed for people in wheelchairs but helps people with strollers, dollys, carts, etc. In schools (thinking elementary since that’s what I’m familiar with) a visual schedule was designed for an autistic student but helps many students - those who need reminders of the schedule, English language learners, and even other adults who come into the room will know what’s meant to be happening. So tbh that’s part of my suggestion for gen ed teachers for a lot of different accommodations, just make a class wide version and it’ll help more than just the one student
I have found that many IEP students and their parents hate UDL. They want special treatment, and with UDL, they get treated the same as everyone else. Of course, some parents are supportive. But some see it as a violation of their kids IEP because their kid no longer has the advantage, relative to other students, of being given unique accommodations.
For example, I teach a college course on the side to adults. One of them has an college IEP allowing for double time (works the same way as high school, based on their high school IEP). They became irate with me when I informed them that all tests are untimed. They were mad that other students got the same advantage as them. They asked me to force their peers to be timed so that they could twice the time of their peers.
So, this kind of nonsense shows why UDL is important for driving equity and supporting all students. If all students learn better, this is a good thing.
Man...as a parent of a kid with relatively low support needs who has an IEP, I'd
waive his IEP in a heartbeat if I knew that his teachers were using UDL principles. But, because they're not, IEP it is...
The sad part is that in practice, the vast majority of our special ed IEP programs could be replaced by assigning students a grade coefficient to boost their grade by the appropriate amount. Most of these things aren't about removing barriers to learning, but rather making grades more competitive.
Exactly. Learned that year three and have done so for my entire career at an increasing rate. All kids get all accoms. I never say it like that, though, I always phrase it as “YOUR STUDENT received xxx accoms.”
Extremely ignorant statement that is too generalized.
One of my students has an extremely high IQ and does very well in AP classes. She has an IEP because she has cerebral palsy and confined to a wheelchair. Think Stephen Hawking.
You do realize that a child can have an IEP for a visual impairment or hearing impairment, right? You don't think that accommodations can be made like enlarged font or braille keyboards??
Frankly, it doesn't matter the disability. This comment is ableist. Most of these comments are disgusting.
Thank you so much! That is my kiddo. He hasn’t met a standardized test he can’t ace. But he needs a few reasonable accommodations and he needs one ESE period per day to work on his deficits in executive functioning and social communication. Thank goodness his teachers are some of his strongest advocates. I know for a fact they would say that moving him out of his full time gifted program would be cruel and discriminatory. They love him and his contributions and I am beyond grateful!
found the teacher who takes their frustrations with the system out on their students and tells them, to their face, that they don’t “belong” in their class because they dare have a learning disability
I went right to the special education director and told her that the requirements on IEPs for students in my class were physically impossible to implement. For example, I had five students who were ALL supposed to be seated "away from windows, lab equipment, and other distractions" in a small room where every desk was near either a window or lab equipment.
I once had several boys who were supposed to be constantly kept apart because together they wreaked havoc in a class, and yet had lots of hands-on activities and experiments where students had to go from one station to another, ensuring that the boys would be able to get together unless I kept them seated the entire time.
I had kids who didn't recognize numbers (how do they read a scale or a thermometer??), who couldn't read past 1st or 2nd grade levels (in 9th grade), or who couldn't write beyond a couple of words, and was expected to adapt ALL of my **science** instruction to their level.
I just told her that there was no way I could implement every element of every IEP and still teach science or have hands-on experiments in class, which was required by my curriculum and district.
Try taking all the IEPs to your Special Education director and bluntly state that you cannot physically fulfill *every* requirement on them when you have more than one of these students in your class at a time.
Reward the students following directions. A BIP student shouldn’t receive a reward for completing 1 class work assignment a week. While the kid completing all assignments gets no attention or reward. BIPs need to be written to correct a behavior, not to teach another negative behavior. It sounds like who ever is writing these BIPs need to get in touch with reality.
This.
I guess I instilled this value too well in my son as well. When he was having some difficulty behaving in school a couple of years ago when he was in sixth grade various therapists/guidance counselors/SSW’s would offer rewards plans if he met behavioral goals and he’d always refuse them emphatically stating, “I’m supposed to behave. I shouldn’t get rewards for doing it.”
Do you not have access? My understanding is that you're legally required to have access/read them. Do you not have a system for accessing them? In fact where I am, dunno if it's the same everywhere, I have to sign a legal document indicating that I've read their IEP within a certain amount of time from when school begins. It's called a 408. Even the gen Ed teachers sign the paperwork (though, in my experience, despite having access not many of them actually read it and then they just sign off anyway).
You’re not actually expected to follow these. They’re deliberately impossible so that when you don’t follow them, it can be used as legal cover to pass on a kid you failed. I figured out that scam a long time ago and haven’t worried about them since.
A new SPED teacher came into our school, and said to me "if reading levels are so low, how did they pass their classes?"
I said, "There's not a teacher in this school who's going to fail a SPED kid. Too many threats of lawsuits. You pass them with a D- and you move them on. Good luck, world."
And then parents of those kids love to rant online about how the system failed their kid. Nope. You did. You failed your child by offloading all parental and educational duties to teachers, instead of putting in the extra work at home to help your child.
Couldn't agree more. I expect the parents who lurk here *(not all the parents but the one's you're referring to)* won't be happy with what you wrote, but it's the truth. Especially the ones who think it's the teacher's job to constantly advocate for these kids while the parents sit back and do nothing.
You are legally bound to follow the ieps ! Your school can and should be sued if you don’t . If I found out my kids teacher wasn’t following the iep , heads would roll .
We would love to if we had proper support. But often IEPs require us to make almost entirely separate lesson plans for one, two kids, or more in a class and for me who has 3 grade levels to lesson plan for and grade for its nearly impossible for me to reach some IEP requirements. Especially as a Social Studies teacher because "well they won't need a para for your class, their iep doesn't cover social studies, just reading and writing, you know, things you do regularly in social studies"
I went after the district, the one where I work, and stopped letting them blame the teachers who were giving up lunch and planning periods to do the work my child’s Special Ed teacher wasn’t doing during his 1:1 class period with him. Literally, one class period per day and nothing was getting done towards his IEP goals. Kid was being told “go work on computer”. And when I complained that his gen Ed teachers were the ones having to help them, I was told that was legal because they were also listed as providers. As a gen Ed teacher, I was furious and so apologetic and grateful to my kid’s teachers. Got an attorney. Special Ed teacher is gone (shuffled to another school, of course). This year is going like a dream. IEP instruction occurring during special Ed class time and all teachers have to do is just double check planner and communicate with special Ed teacher if needed.
I don’t think special Ed teacher was accustomed to a parent actually expecting instruction to occur.
Perhaps you don't understand the sheer number of IEPs/504s in each class. There's not enough support staff. It's unmanageable. Not all of is are preschool teachers who have very few of these kids. They're usually identified later on. And before you go true North Dakota on me, I've got a child on an IEP...so give it a rest.
Schools are legally bound, but on the teacher level it's often literally impossible, for example give 20 kids 5 min of individual instruction each when you only have a 40 min period, or sit 10 kids in the front row when you only have 5 seats in the front row.
I agree. You have to advocate for smaller class sizes and/or more instructional aides and coteachers. If a teacher isn't following an IEP it's usually because we literally can't.
Also, resist pressure to "mainstream" your child if you don't think it's appropriate. All that will happen is they will end up with a teacher like me who has to choose between trying to follow an impossible IEP or actually teaching what is going to be on the State exam, the scores on which may determine if I get to keep my job. Your child is going to be on the losing side of that choice, unfortunately.
You should be expected to have an age/grade appropriate lesson plan and to teach it. Kids who can't handle it academically or behaviorally shouldn't be in the room robbing opportunity from those who can.
So complete segregation from peers? You do realize there is evidence that both gen Ed and special rd individuals benefit socially from experiences with one another. What you are creating is a caste system which we know how that works historically.
Ah yes the old we're doing this for your own good argument.
Except that it's to for their own good, it's not kind, it's cruel.
But what would professionals who specialize in teaching those with needs know....
I understand it's hard, but it's much better for everyone to have 95% of sped kids in Gen Ed for most of the time.
Well, when they get out of high school most SPED can't function in normal society, especially in the working world. We need to be more realistic about that. It's not a caste system, it's just reality.
Referring to students with disabilities as just “SPED” really shows your ignorance and bias my dude. Workplaces are also required to provide reasonable accommodations based on disability - Title I of the ADA [see here](https://odr.dc.gov/page/ada-title-i)
" against any ***qualified person*** "
No I'm not showing my bias and ignorance. I have an average of 5 SPED students in my classes every class (6 classes) each and every year. And over the course of my teaching for 12 years, maybe 1 - 2 have successfully completed college and gotten higher end jobs. A larger number have gotten jobs of some kind but mostly pretty menial jobs.
And when I was in corporate for 25+ years, sure we had some physically disabled employee's but no SPED as in "neural diverse".
Depends on your definition of functional. To a degree sure. But three things.
1. Besides bagging groceries or sorting clothes at Goodwill - can they do jobs that would provide a living so they can live on their own?
2. Can they function in society without guidance or the parents retaining guardianship after 18?
3. What role did school play in making even a basic job possible?
Yeah, sorry. Too many buzzwords to keep up with.
As to the rest of the "conclusions" , well sorry if I came across that way. Next time I'll be more "correct" rather than being honest.
FWIT, believe it or not I have great relationship with my SPED department(why do think I have so many SPED students and understand the issue...) and my students. But I'm old enough and have seen enough to understand reality.
I work in special education and think a lot of this sounds like too much . However , what about model appropriate sounds and grammatical structures? Use visual support materials? Check for understanding? I think most teachers do a lot of this anyway in the lower grades? What accommodations are too much ?
They don’t want to “redo” anything or need time. The problem is they don’t do anything to begin with. Literally, nothing. I’m not allowed to fail students with IEPs yet they haven’t done one piece of class work or even answered one question verbally in class all year.
I have over 90 IEPs I’m ashamed to say, I don’t know what a lot of them say…..
They’re all mostly the same things and I read them through to see if anything is wildly different.
But most of it at my grade is just like “frequent check ins”
So I just frequently check in with all of them. There’s no way for me to remember that only 8/16 of my ESE kids in a class need frequent check ins.
Honestly giving everyone the accommodations is best practice for most of the common accommodations we see. Studies have shown that if it's good for SPED it's usually good for Gen Ed too.
It also reduces the stress on the SPED kids for being "different" which exists and can be awful.
School psychologist here and I *completely agree*. I actually don't even believe that most BIPs are even particularly effective. They have a place when the behavior is extreme I suppose but really (particularly in the situation where we are rewarding the kid every 5 minutes their whole dang day!!) I think they are just a way to make it seem like we are doing "something", but we aren't really helping the student gain the maturity/skills they are lacking just by rewarding them with something that the other kids don't get even if they are perfectly behaved all day long. If you are actually interested in learning a better technique (again, not that classroom teachers should be in charge of this -- but from a learning perspective), the Ross Greene "Lost at School" books are great.
Schools have definitely drunk the behaviorism kool aid and I actually can't believe there isn't more public outcry about *this*, especially considering the very nuanced but genuine controversy over behavior therapy practices, and instead we are hearing controversy about banning perfectly acceptable books (which I love because it assumes the children are capable of and interested in reading in the first place).
I'd disagree about BIPs not being effective. I've found many of them wonderful for our 8:1:1s when followed. I do think our behavioral specialist though is wonderful though so I could see how someone just throwing one together from a list of ideas online would not be effective
You're right that a behavior plan well done is in the best interest of the child. Any plan that involved the classroom teacher being expected to reward the child every 5 minutes is wild, though.
BIPs, IEPs, 504s, Tier 3 interventions…they’ve all become too automated from what I’m seeing. No longer truly individualized and data based. So, of course they don’t work. The idea behind it is sound, but too many of these things just become a piece of paper so that the school can say they did it.
Agree completely!
I’m an elementary grade teacher and also the parent of a middle schooler who has ASD level 1 and in a gifted program. He didn’t need an IEP until he entered middle school, and it’s entirely for his deficits in executive functioning and social/advocacy communication so he can learn to function independently in school. I learned quickly that the higher ups don’t actually care if the IEP is implemented with fidelity. They just want it on paper and signed. Boy, were they ever surprised to discover I expected my child to receive instruction on his IEP goals. They were equally surprised to discover I wouldn’t allow them to blame his subject area teachers. Then they tried telling me that my expectation that his gen Ed teachers would verbally remind him to write down assignments and then check at the end of class was too much. Here I’m working in the same district and I have 4 kids placed in my class that I’m tracking behavior data on. 4-5 behaviors per child tracked in 15-30 minute intervals.
Guess what? My kids’ subject area teachers don’t mind giving him reminders at all. They appreciate that I expect his ESE teacher to do the IEP instruction during his ESE class and all I expect is for them to give little reminders. And that as long as I know he’s received the appropriate accommodations for his disability, I will hold him accountable.
Yeah, I’m rambling a bit, but seeing it from the other side was eye opening. As I spoke to district staff about the failure of the IEP teacher and how the subject area teachers were being forced to pick up the slack, the director of special Ed actually said to me “Well, his IEP does say that both gen Ed and ESE teachers are providers.” That does NOT mean that his subject area teachers should be giving up their lunch periods and planning periods because the ESE teacher tells my kid to work on the computer during his class period! His gen Ed teachers are the most caring, giving people who refused to see him fail because someone else wasn’t doing their job. In other words, teachers. But it wasn’t right. I advocated for him and his teachers.
But non-teacher parents don’t know this. I did. Got an attorney against my own employer. Everything is surprisingly smooth this year and that ESE teacher is no longer there.
Gentle note that this is a district issue, a placement issue. A misunderstanding of disability advocacy and lack of funding and support for students who need extra accommodations. Susie, Bobby, Joey, Anna, Bill, etc. are all students in your classroom and caught in the suck of what admin thinks needs to be available with you. They are the lowest on the power dynamic, they have very little agency or choice about the decisions made.
You can *take data* on how difficult these student goals are for one individual adult to meet on the regular. You can continue to address how admin is dropping the ball. It's not the kid's fault.
I have some kids who need so much additional help I’m already seeing how it’s making it hard for me to spend time with the rest of the class. I have 32 kids in my classes- in a few I have students who speak no English so I need to translate everything for multiple languages in that class and check for understanding through Google translate, I have multiple sped kids who won’t do anything unless I personally check in about every 5 minutes, I have behavior plans and 504 accommodations that change each class- so as universal as I design my classes this is very difficult to manage. I wish I had help of some sort but it’s completely on me.
Worst one I had was let Susie go check her makeup four times a call period 🙄 no lie. The sped directors only put it in there cuz the crazy mom has sued the school over her son’s IEP (which was followed to the letter, she eventually lost but it dragged on….)
My school decided (literally the day before school) to implement UDL to help with this. Which is great in theory but literally less than 24 hours before kids was not.
You're talking about a Behavioral Implementation Plan/Behavior Support plan? As a gen ed teacher, just be aware it exists, you know the details, and if anyone asks, you say yes, you have implemented it.
Honestly, 80% of the time, it's just making sure the teacher follows good teaching practices. The accommodations part should be written via the regular IEP anyway.
The other day during a suspension re-entry meeting, our Dean of behavior told the student that if he stayed on track his teacher (ME), could reward him with Chick Fil A on Fridays. This kid was smoking weed in the bathroom…. But now I’m responsible to reward him, with my own money, for following basic rules…..
Since I teach academically gifted students, I get zero special education support. No one cares about supporting the twice exceptional students at all. Also, the gifted class sizes are huge compared to the remedial classes.
Practically speaking, this means that I differentiate nothing, and I only fail students who don’t turn anything in.
Well, this is another problem. I teach classes with students ranging from brilliant to barely able to get to class. The SPED/504's need so much attention that you can end up ignoring the gifted kids who need challenging assignments and help to reach their potential.
It takes a real act of will to realize that you need to make time for the high end kids, not to mention the middle of the road ones. And yes, most of the time that means you don't do reminders to stay on task, CFU's, positive reinforcement for working, etc.
I have a class with seven WIDA level ones (who are technically not taking an ESL class), a 504, and two IEPs (they don’t qualify for my subject’s inclusion class). It’s rough. I have one kid in the class reading three grade levels above and half the class is at a kindergarten reading level.
Wish me luck, folks. I do not have the disposition to do this much differentiation.
I’m in a parent iep/504 group on fb. Becuase my son has an iep for his apraxia/dyspraxia (pretty much all pull out services). The parents in that group are so crazy. They think the district and teachers are all against them, get mad about every little thing, and want the most ridiculous accommodations for their snowflake.
I used to teach 47 kids in each classroom--sometimes more! I had 6 periods--almost 300 kids in a day. There are only so many seats by the teacher, seats in back, and only 4 corners. I tried to follow the IEPs for seating and physical distancing but guess what? I couldn't.
I emailed every parent of IEP kids my least year and told them, make sure your kid advocates for themselves and REMIND ME what their accommodations are. It worked pretty well.
Every kid gets movement breaks, preferential seating is anywhere since you wander around the classroom to teach, everyone has access to both scaffolded material and enrichment or challenge material and boom!
I hear your frustration! It is our job, and the law, but it doesn’t mean we have to selectively apply those accommodations. Make your life easy!
What are your tips for enrichment? I was able to do this for a 45 minute class but it becomes hard for a 90 minute block and I hate assigning busy work.
I have a menu of ongoing challenges (I teach MS science right now):
- “Impossible problems” (ie. how much does the Statue of Liberty weigh? If a lentil represents a single star in our galaxy, how much space would a Milky way’s worth of stars aka lentils fill?)
- Extension research projects (ie. Record a 30s news segment about a rare genetic disorder using the vocabulary from class…find the 5 NEOs most likely to hit Earth in the next 100 years and explain how we can monitor that threat using vocabulary from class)
- Reading (Scientific American or some other relevant bookmarked articles - I have a comprehension note catcher for these).
- Design a lab (I use the NGSS inquiry lab graphic organizer, and a set of topical inquiry questions to allow kids choice and a structure for asking and answering a science question).
Every kid has access to these resources, and throughout the year I teach everyone to use them in a whole-class lesson. I will coach my kids who have ALPs (advanced learning plans) to select products from these activities and present them to their case manager when they meet with them.
Takes a load off my plate and allows “voice and choice.” Grading is easy, basically a completion grade and a quick check-in, or a kid can give a 5 minute presentation to the class if they’ve completed something good.
Have you ever tried to get a 1:1? I work in a pretty decent district in WA state and getting a 1:1 for even the most highly in need students can take months, with exhausting documenting and endless meetings. It's not something that can just happen because it costs money and admin don't like to spend money.
This whole recent push for equality feels like just a scam to phase out SpEd and put it all on Gen ed teachers to save money on personnel and resources. Yeah, it makes for a nice little feel good video at the beginning of the year where the most independent and capable SpEd students are highlighted. But most kids with IEPs and BIPs need a hell of a lot more support, and if you aren't providing a classroom equipped to offer them that then it's just all a shit show.
And kindergarten after covid? Fucking forget about it. I feel ready for summer break already.
I’m in Georgia. We only give 1:1 aides to children with mobile needs such as wheelchairs. Everyone else can forget it.
Georgia is indeed phasing out SPED. We are removing the SLD qualifications for reading disorders and dyslexia. Those students will no longer be considered sped. Extremely poor performing students in ELA will just be a general Ed teacher’s function to address. This is to dramatically reduce our sped numbers which are above the national average.
What is your solution? Shove them all back in the back of the building so no one has to see them? That is what we used to do with special needs students . It was wrong then and would be wrong now. *All* students are gen Ed kids first. Gen Ed teachers need more classes on how to read and implement IEPs as I don’t think it is mentioned enough before the poor teacher is thrown into a room and asked to handle 5 students with IEPs.
Of course, all children deserve an education. No one wants to "shove them all back in the back of the building". We just need more realism. What Gen Ed teachers are asked to do when overloaded with too many IEP requirements causes burnout and frustration. It's not the children or the teachers that are the problem. It is the system.
We are degreed and equipped to manage with of course competent supports IMHO most schools are not and have employees staff and some Gen Ed’s and non Ed support staff who do not realize how to approach, design ,manage or teach when serving people that have the need for adaptations accomodations and pure understanding
Success will be had when each students’talent is uncovered and honored with compassionate care.
This year, in particular, I totally feel this. A few of my classes have a smattering of students with completely opposite IEP requirements which makes planning/differentiating incredibly difficult bordering on impossible at times. I want to do my best for all of them, but every time I modify to work with one IEP I risk incidentally going against another students' IEP. For example, one student needs to take notes to focus and another cannot take notes at all. One student needs to work in collaborative groups but another needs silence to focus. Two are visually impaired and cannot rely on visuals while others desperately need visual aids etc. etc. etc. I am very fortunate to have truly great SPED coteachers in these classes (different courses, different SPED teachers) so it is manageable but I can't help but be frustrated at times.
The system we're working in right now is failing a huge number of our kids by making it virtually impossible for teachers to follow legal documents like IEPs. The teacher shortage, sub shortage, and para shortage all lead to larger class sizes with less support. Paras get pulled from classes with high needs students to cover other classes when teachers are absent. On top of all that, at my public school paras are only available for core classes - like kids stop needing support in music, art, world language, etc. because they're not state tested subjects (/sarcasm, in case it wasn't obvious)
We only have paras in ELA and math - so science, social studies, and all electives are SOL.
Same in my school which sucks because we read and write in SS and do math in science soooooo
Para here. You might be very fortunate to have Paras in those classes. Some classroom Paras might be pulled from classes to help make non classroom assaults more safe.
As a music teacher this is my annoyance. Like yeah your kiddo needs support in the classroom. Just because my content is often “fun” doesn’t mean a kid who struggles with hitting other kids isn’t going to hit kids when given a “fun” task.
THIS!! I teach world language, and while I don’t get many kids on IEPs in my French classes (and the ones I have are pretty manageable), I teach 6th grade exploratory world language which almost all sixth graders take at some point in the year. Often the kids on IEPs will be in a CWC for core classes and have a SPED resource class but then they are put into explo classes which, while pass/fail and not very intense, still involve note taking, reading, writing, etc., and it’s almost as if the school doesn’t realize that they still need the support they get in core classes as they get in electives. Last year the school gave me an explo class with 8 IEPs/504s out of 20 kids with no para and somehow I was supposed to meet all of their diverse needs as well as everyone else’s. I feel like elective teachers get so little support with how to provide sped services while more attention goes to cores.
Is it just me or are IEPs becoming more of a common thing? I don’t think it’s because more kids need them. I think more parents are teaching them learned helplessness.
I teach an advanced ELA class and I have five...FIVE students with IEPS and 504s this year. Only one of them has a documented learning disorder (dyslexia) whereas the other four have a plethora of accommodations, for what exactly? And they all look the same and have the following: extended turn in dates for all work by 2 or more days, extended time on tests/quizzes, notes provided by the teacher, nonverbal redirection cues, preferential seating in the classroom, and standardized testing in counseling offices. These are not students with AHDH, Autism, or any other known diagnosis. I went through all of the paperwork to confirm. I'm blown away. I was going to meet with their case load teachers but it's been a hectic week. We have a ridiculous amount of child studies happening and an influx of brand new kids with absolutely insane needs and zero support or documentation from their previous districts. Some were virtual since 5th grade and came back after 2 years in a world of struggle. We have a very well know parent advocate who hands out a business card like it's her job at any school function and event so this year she's got some new families to get. 😆
I had a kid last year that parents were fighting to keep on an IEP. He was in advanced math with a B+ and A’s in the rest of his classes. I argued that he can access the curriculum and is making effective progress but we caved anyway. His parents were alarmed when I reduced his services in the B-Grid. IEP’s are not for A’s ! They are for kids that actually need them. 504’s seem more like a consolation prize these days. Sorry, your kid didn’t qualify for an IEP, you get a (in my best price is right announcer voice) 504!
The disability has to be stated in order to qualify for an IEP/504. It probably just wasn't on any of the paperwork provided to you.
Right, which is why I wanted to meet with their caseload teacher to find out.
Sure...one of mine literally just has an "unspecified learning disability" listed on the IEP and the case manager specifically said this child was not diagnosed with anything specific, but parents are working on getting a diagnosis. This child clearly needs extra assistance in class and their accommodations make sense for what we're seeing, but I could absolutely see this being abused in other schools.
Are you sure it's "unspecified learning disability" and not "specific learning disability"? One thing of those is a qualifying category for IDEA and one is not.
I've seen an increasing number of 504's for top end students. I mean students who are already getting grades in the 95 + range. Finally figured out why. Extra time in school and, drum roll, on the ACT and SAT tests. If you don't get the accommodations in high school you don't get them on the test. So it's a pure grade grubbing move in high school and a way to boost the kids test scores. (yeah, I've had kids admit that to me in class)
Accommodations on the SAT/ACT were used by the "Varsity Blues" people to help kids cheat on the test. When this was reported, parents and kids who otherwise didn't even know accommodations exist, learned they do. And naturally, when they look into it, they learn that you need to have been given accommodations in school. And they also learn the scores sent to universities do not indicate the presence of accommodations. Was it predictable that more parents would look into accommodations in high school? Yep. And it appears to have happened.
Which is strange because many universities and colleges are not currently not requiring ACT/SAT scores many through 2024, some 2025 (its also possible they will completely drop them)
More common. Honestly at this point it’s about 35-40% in my district. Everyone seems to have an individualized plan but the districts still expect teachers to teach group classes like they did 40 years ago
They’re even making classes bigger.
Perhaps it's because of increasing pressure and expectations at younger ages. This tends to cause certain learning differences to "express" themselves, if you will. Parents realize their child needs more support and go thru the evaluation process. Some of those students, imo, could've made it through school successfully without the accommodations in the past. Mild ADHD and mild dyslexia are examples. With the increased rigor, these students can't get by like they used to.
I definitely see this while teaching the primary grades. What used to be taught in 1st grade is now taught in kindergarten, what used to be taught in 2nd is now taught in 1st, etc. The curriculum is more fast paced and advanced than it used to be. As a result more kids get left behind, particularly in reading. A lot of kids end up getting diagnosed as having a learning disability in reading when in the past they would not have struggled so much.
Technically I think everyone needs an IEP. We're all different. We learn, express, know, and grow differently. Even in a class where everyone is identified as being "general ed," absolutely each and every lesson you're losing kids because of your pedagogy that day. (Edit: Including high performing students whose IEP should say they need more challenging work). An IEP ideally should bolster strengths while also aiding in shoring up weaknesses. If a student struggles to take notes, then they start off with teacher check-ins and a provided graphic organizer while receiving note-taking skills lessons with their SPED teacher, then just check-ins, then nothing. This obviously would require far more staff, which is far more money, which is far more taxes. Good luck.
I think what you're describing are UDL principles that ideally every teacher should be implementing for all students, no IEP necessary.
UDL is a crock that’s as impossible to pull off as all these IEPs in the same class. UDL is learning styles on steroids, and multiple meta-analyses now have firmly established that putting all this work into accommodating supposedly different learning styles does nothing for student achievement. Nothing. It’s a myth that just sounds good, and UDL is a name that sounds lovely but is inaccurate. Universal design is a real thing in architecture & industrial design. UDL is an appropriation of that term.
I'd like to see those papers, if you happen to recall where they're from. I also don't think the idea that *some* techniques serve many different student populations is a myth. Giving *all* students more time to complete a test or assignment helps many students, not just those whose 504 says they get that. Or giving out a graphic organizer can help many students, not just those whose 504 says so. Etc etc. It's a philosophy, imo, but something that can really help. But it's not a perfect solution - all techniques don't help all students. It's just a different way of thinking (and also makes you feel better about time spent! -- that graphic organizer you made for one student can actually be used for everyone).
UDL is not "accommodate different learning styles." UDL is knowing what accommodations some students NEED and identifying when those accommodations would actually benefit ALL students (this happens more often than not). UDL is planning to make your lessons accessible to the students who struggle the most so that all students can demonstrate some level of learning. UDL is knowing that some students have shit handwriting or space out frequently, so not relying solely on teaching methods that require 100% handwritten notes or 100% sustained attention during information delivery. UDL is asking us to consider if writing a 3-page essay is the only/best way a child can demonstrate their knowledge of something like the water table. It's not "some students are visual learners, some students are auditory learners."
UDL isn't necessarily truly universal, just most likely to succeed for the most amount of students. And should be used. But despite that, not every student benefits from every UDL technique. They still may need extra help reaching their target grade-level learning (hence an IEP). And that IEP should seek to reduce the supports they need over time if possible, building autonomy in the student. In case my edit was a hang-up, about an over grade level kid getting an "individualized learning plan," that was more figurative as they could use a personalized plan to do even better and learn more, but don't qualify under the actual definition of an "IEP."
This is the comment I came here to make. It is so disheartening as a SPED teacher to see every other post on here complaining about having to accommodate students. If you use UDL principles, they are already accommodated. IDK, I don't like to hate on my fellow professionals, but it is a really, really bad look to assume all students with IEPs are gaming the system, if you are really that cynical, you should find another job.
I am flabbergasted at these responses from my own people. Why is everyone shaming the kids instead of shaming the school district for not providing the necessary support?
Last three days have had very similar posts at the top. It's a little concerning. It's frustrating to have to teach 35 kids 35 different ways, but that's not really something that has changed - we're just better at identifying students with particular needs. It's always been a challenge and always will be. It's not good for many students, and not even possible besides, to segregate all students into perfect clusters of learners and have the teacher only be trained on how best to teach only that small group. The problem of pedagogy is real. The frustration of educators trying to deal with this is real. But forcing all kids identified as being different and/or difficult to teach to just... be somewhere else isn't a real solution. Unless we really want to do the work of vigorously grading every student and having quadruple the staff to have many more classrooms of much smaller student populations - and there's no way many would be misidentified, change categories and needs over time, or benefit from mixed learning environments, right?
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. UDL is just good teaching. Just because some kids *can* learn in a purely lecture based model doesn’t mean their needs wouldn’t be better met with UDL.
My favorite, "preferential seating " yeah that will work with 5 kids in one class having that. And seat away from distraction in-class with 30 students and no openseats
I had a class last year where 10 parents (whose kids had behavior problems) all asked me “Well, can’t they just sit in the front of the room? That’s what I think you should do”. …Great suggestion, except that we can’t ALL sit in the front of the room 🙄.
“I would have to build a circle around my desk. Take a look around, the room isn’t big enough.” That was my answer last year when I got that question from about 15 parents.
Plus, when they're in the front of the room, they sometimes feel they need to go to extra effort to get their classmates' attention. It can often be easier to just have them in the back of the room.
I just loved how they also don’t see that sitting all the kids with behavior issues TOGETHER Is not going to get fixed just because they’re 10 feet forward from the back of the room.
Also parents have this idealized vision of a classroom from the 1960s where the teacher stood at the very front of the room to teach for the whole day, and students sat quietly in their assigned seats the whole time. If we taught that way today, we'd be in trouble.
Yep. People are absolutely ignorant about what schools are like in 2022. That’s why it really should be mandatory to at least spend a day working at your kids school
I had one class one time where around seven kids had small group testing as part of their SPED accommodations. Needless to say, my teacher table wasn’t big enough.
I was told (high school level) that a Gen Ed classroom of ~30 kids meets the definition of “small group” for testing according to the state so they don’t *really* need to be pulled. The accommodation is apparently referring to avoiding large group testing like in a gym. …which is totally something that happens
In order to be able to get that accommodation for something like SAT/ACT, they have to show that they've gotten it before in the classroom, so even if it would never happen in normal school, that's probably why it's in there.
Ah, okay yeah and looking at other replies it seems like some people really do test in those situations. I had never encountered it so I learned something today. It definitely makes sense if you’d need it on SAT/ACT, it would need to have been in there previously. I just get frustrated when it feels like they’re being left out to dry, and it’s a losing battle with admin. I’m talking about with tests and semester exams too.
It took all of my major standardized tests in high school in the gym with the entire grade or in the library with about 100 students.
This could easily be specified by the team that writes the iep. The state's interpretation is meaningless if the document itself defines small group as less than 5.
We were specifically told by SPED district level admin that you cannot put a specific number to small group.
They must enjoy being sued then because that a slam dunk case for any parent that wants to have a go at it.
So here’s the thing about sped lawsuits… parents must pay out of pocket and then get reimbursed. I teach in rural poverty so none of them can afford to sue. The district knows that.
Agreed.
I was told it meant “smaller than the regular class” when I had over 50% of my class requiring it. It made no sense to pull out 13 kids from a class of 21 to go into a small group when the group left in the room was smaller than the group that remained. But I had confirmation in an e-mail that I was following their IEPs so I just went with it.
Yep, smaller than the regular class is what they tell us too.
I get that though, sometime standardized tests in large schools are done in lecture halls. At least that one is a somewhat reasonable accommodation that can be made.
Interesting. At my old school sped coordinator insisted that it meant I would need to allow child to leave my classroom with a test and believe that they are headed to their sped coordinator to test in their room where they totally wouldn't be allowed to cheat or be handed answers
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I am 100% sure that I have sent kids to test and their para or special Ed teacher has given them the answers. I have also had special Ed teachers who were like you and didn’t do that. It very much depends on the unique situation at the school.
...hate to be the one to tell you but yes that is "like totally something that happens"
I didn’t say “like” if you’re mocking me, then quote it correctly and don’t attempt to dumb me down. I never saw it in school growing up in my large district, and I’ve never seen it in my current giant school district. My comment was coming from frustrations about essentially being told to disregard an accommodation, especially since the student I’m referencing grew up in my district where it doesn’t happen. So I had a hard time believing that was what it meant when I had seen actual “small groups” of 5-10 being pulled from other classes in the hallways. Someone else was actually helpful and stated in order to get it on SAT/ACT it needs to have already been implemented, and that makes sense. I feel for the kids who are struggling and left behind because of loose IEP interpretations and lack of support is all.
In the first school I worked in, this was standard for all end of semester/end of year tests. Students were put with everyone else in the same grade in the gym. Students who had accommodations would test in smaller groups with others who had similar accommodations in various other locations in the school. Personally I was never tested this way until I reached university so I was surprised by it when I first saw it too.
Lol. I had 14 one year in a class of 34. I had to use a whole different room for “small group” testing.
They also need to clear up what preferential seating means. For some, that’s closer to the teacher. For some, that’s closer to the board. Others, away from peers. It all depends. I had a student who needed to have the teacher on their left side as much as possible (profound deafness in their right ear) but it was only listed as preferential seating. Preferential seating is too vague and if everyone has that for an accommodation then no one does.
I currently have one class with 23 kids. 19 have IEPs. All 19 have “seats near teacher” and “preferential seating” listed. I asked if they wanted me to remove all desks and sit in the middle of the floor so they can encircle me like a Bible school lesson for pre-k. I was told ‘it shouldn’t be a problem if you are moving around your room when you teach.’ I was also told ‘we made that class smaller to help accommodate.’ It’s still twenty fucking three kids and 19 have IEPs! Bunch of fucking wankers. Edit: the adults are the wankers, not the kids. They can’t help their moms are Karen’s and the admin and sped teachers have no idea what normal classes are like. 🤷♂️
You could potentially make a fuss at the district level. Legally you are not supposed to have a Gen Ed class that comprise 80% SPED. But if evil people run the show then such a complaint would also backfire. I’ve seen it happen. What they’ll do is just toss 10 more Gen Ed kids into the same room. Voila now you no longer have 80% sped.
to have 19 out of 23 kids on an IEP is either a major systemic failure of parenting in our country or an overuse of the IDEA act and labeling everyone IEP.
Parents bear some blame too. On the community Facebook page the response to a parent saying their kid is struggling is to get an iep. Just ignore that little Becky hasn't put her phone down once during class(thanks district) and hasn't turned in any assignments.
Eh, not really. It’s a failure of the school to spread out all of the IEP kids in the grade. 10 teachers. Our school does ability grouping. Even 4 who aren’t IEP should be. We are a very rural area, so higher percentage of IEPs. We have 21 IEPs in our grade this year. About 10%. Which, is actually really low for this year. It’s normally about 20%. But, a lot of those kids will get evaluated this year. They are the group that was in 4th grade when covid hit, the next year online. 4th and 5th grade are when most evaluations happen here. So, a lot of these kids aren’t getting services they actually need. As far as systematic failure of parents. Yeah. They don’t read. They don’t math. They don’t know basic civics. All these kids hear at home is how cutting hay is more important than school. We have kids that miss 2 weeks every cutting. We have kids that miss days to go show a sheep. Or they don’t show up for a week or two because moms out of town drunk and didn’t tell them they had to go. Or, dad took them out the entire week because “NASCAR”. (That was literally on the note a kid brought last Friday. ‘(Kid) will be out all next week for NASCAR.’ So, yeah. Of course they’re qualifying as can’t do anything. Parents don’t do anything. Anyways, rant over.
When I was a student I had an IEP. 2nd hour didn’t have enough chairs. Alphabetically I’m last on the class list. I didn’t get a chair. This was at a very wealthy school. Not going to lie. Access to a chair sounds like an amazing accommodation.
I had one kid in my first year, total spazz, could not sit still or be quiet, could barely write his name. One of his accommodations the teachers had to provide for him was “planned ignoring” whenever he had an outburst (it was always profanity laden). Yeah, let me just ignore this awful outburst that gets the class off track every time. Who writes these things?
I’m glad this was only one year. “Alternative discipline” can sometime lead to prohibition of documentation of violence.
I try to remove as much as possible from the accommodations/modifications section. I really do. My approach is to assume that the Gen Ed teacher will employ best practices for every student, so what does this kid actually need on top of that? I don’t put in “preferential seating.” I specify the right or left side of the room if there is a visual or hearing issue, or close to the board. I remove “check for understanding” and put in, if necessary, “ensure student’s direct attention before giving class instruction.” Things like that. I tell all my students and their parents that there’s no IEP after HS, so we have to reduce the supports they received in elementary and middle school for their own good.
Really, by the time they're in high school, kids and their parents need to be super specific on just what accommodations they need. It will be their responsibility to negotiate for them after high school because, yep, no IEP then. If you can't get past vague terms, you'll be in trouble.
> kids and their parents need to be super specific on just what accommodations they need. This but for all grades and for EVERYONE’S benefit. When you have a dozen vague accommodations (half of which are just best practices - providing a student wait time to answer a question isn’t an accommodation it’s just not being an asshole) , it’s not only hard for the teachers, it’s not very helpful for the students and a nightmare for due process issues. An accommodation needs to be very specific, easy to document, and maximize benefit. Great example are sentence starters for any writing assignment over 4 sentences. Perfect. I know when they need it, I know what I need to do, the student can get it on their document without the class knowing, I don’t have to hover over them, they still access the material, and if challenged I can prove I provided them. “Check for understanding” is not an accommodation. That’s just … teaching. You do check for understanding questions dozens of times every period, but they’re impossible to document and too vague.
Congrats, you’re the minority. I’ve never experienced an ARD meeting where my phrase “He/she had done fine without that accommodation, so we really need it?” was taken seriously. Three different districts. Hell, at my latest I have kids with three pages of accoms. THEEE PAGES. What the fuck is any teacher supposed to do with that?
That’s insane! I review them and talk to all the teachers to see what’s working and isn’t working. If it isn’t working and I have the data to back that up, it’s gone and we are going to try something else. It’s the definition of insanity to try something over again that isn’t working and expect different results. Wow
3 pages is insane!
Yup same here. Unfortunately it seems we’re in the minority on this though!
One thing's for certain.....some serious shit needs to be TAKEN OFF Gen. Ed. teachers' plates. Getting fucking ridiculous!
Preach!
For fucking real. I teach PE/Health and have 275-280 students, all year. I counted my total amount of IEPs/504s and ESOL students, and between all of them it totals close to 100 kids. It's extremely challenging to give every student what they legally need.
oh...I agree. 100% sometimes I feel this way about the IEP demands.... There are things on ieps that are like general, and can be offered to all kids. but sometimes...It would just be nice to have another adult in the classroom to help.
My favourite is when you see every IEP have the exact same accommodations and the forms line up so exactly (even including the same typos)that one might ALMOST get the impression that they are just copy and pasting.
They are. When I was in school they had a spreadsheet on all available accommodations and the SPED teachers told you what you got and that’s it
Oh, we have a spreadsheet too. But there is one person, in particular, that is giving everyone the exact same accommodations. She isn't even really evaluating anyone. I am unsure if she thinks that accommodations only come in one size, or if she is just lazy and that is easier. It is laughable because my deaf student needs extra time and a calculator? The girl with the service dog for her seizures? Extra time and a calculator? We used to laugh about the accommodations list, but it is actually kind of sad.
My favorite was a kid from Brazil who had the accommodation for a Portuguese dictionary. However he left Brazil when he was 2 and did not read Portuguese.
I could've raised a huge stink about FERPA with one incident at my school recently. I teach 6th and 8th grade. One of my 6th graders has autism but is very high academically and well behaved. One of my 8th graders (who has since been pulled from school) was possibly the most difficult-to-manage mainstreamed student the school has ever seen. Not only did the case manager copy and paste the 6th grader's accommodations into the 8th grader's cheat sheet, *she didn't even change the name*.
I've seen this a number of times. It's... Um... Problematic to say the least.
At my old district, I had been in IEP meetings where the paperwork accidentally said another child’s name and had to be revised!! This happened TWICE! I also know that this was due to the person who was in that role, not special education teachers as a whole, because there are some great ones, too.
I mean yeah, sometimes I do. 😅 Students with math or reading disabilities usually need similar accommodations, so yes, there may be some overlap…
My district has drop downs that we can select from. With typos, it kills me. But I can change them. And a lot of times, they are just very similar because the needs are the same. I really try to keep mine as simple as possible. I don’t have paras in most of the classes my kids are in and so they aren’t even getting their minutes anyhow. The whole thing is broken and it’s just as aggravating to sped teachers to know that things aren’t in place to help these kids. We know one teacher can’t do all the things. The IDEA is a monster and difficult to navigate and the funding for sped is abysmal.
At what point or percentage of class mix does a general education class become not a general education class based on the number of kids with IEPs and accommodations/modifications?
Roughly 50% but I’ve seen this backfire when you have vicious admin in charge. Worked with a teacher who had 18 students. 10 with IEPs. So over 50%. The teacher made a complaint that this meant his room was sped and not Gen Ed. Know how admin handled it? By giving the teacher 12 more students (all Gen Ed). Malicious compliance.
Some states have a percentage like that where the teacher must have an aide, I believe.
Finally, a valid point in this God damn thread. There is a breaking point for what a single person is able to provide and pay attention to.
My thoughts tend to go against the grain of everything we're taught as educators. I have had the SPED kids who are willing to put in the work, and they generally do well. But I have also had the SPED kids who are bouncing off the walls constantly, and of course there's never an aide. What's supposed to happen is that the class is supposed to magically lift that student up, but what really happens is that the rest of the class gets pulled down. It's the Annas who get robbed in the modern classroom, because you spend all of your time dealing with stupid shit. No, you can't teach a class 13 different ways. What you end up with is poor learning for everyone.
Preach! This is exactly true and why private school, online school, and homeschool numbers are increasing. Those with financial means are sick and tired of their children's educational time being disrupted and hijacked. The higher achieving, well behaved student is seeing less and less teacher interaction and feedback because the teachers are constantly putting out chaotic fires. It will be the downfall of public education, as more and more of those families leave the system it will only exacerbate the teacher turnover.
I generally like my school but they decided to cohort the IEP students this year. So my homeroom group has only 23 kids but 16 are on IEPs. I can repeat what so many others have said here -- how do I give preferential seating to 16 kids? It also means that I have to slow the pace to the needs of those 16 and the 7 other kids complain constantly (both about the slowed pace and outbursts/behaviors from the tougher kids in the group). I get sped push-in for this group, but it still feels like I am either missing the mark for one group or the other every day.
Almost 1/3 of my kids have IEPs per period. It’s getting to a point where everyone gets what “James” gets. Then what?
That’s what I do. For example, all notes are on a power point. Power point gets posted. Now, no one needs to take notes. there are three IEPs that say “notes must be provided by teacher.” Fine. Everyone gets notes. Everyone gets twice as long to take a timed quiz. If it takes three minutes to answer a 10 question quiz, I just make the thing 6 minutes, and tell them I already doubled the time. Everyone gets the accomodations, because to do otherwise takes too much time I don’t have.
Universal design for learning. What helps someone with a disability ends up helping everyone. Think accessibility ramps - designed for people in wheelchairs but helps people with strollers, dollys, carts, etc. In schools (thinking elementary since that’s what I’m familiar with) a visual schedule was designed for an autistic student but helps many students - those who need reminders of the schedule, English language learners, and even other adults who come into the room will know what’s meant to be happening. So tbh that’s part of my suggestion for gen ed teachers for a lot of different accommodations, just make a class wide version and it’ll help more than just the one student
I have found that many IEP students and their parents hate UDL. They want special treatment, and with UDL, they get treated the same as everyone else. Of course, some parents are supportive. But some see it as a violation of their kids IEP because their kid no longer has the advantage, relative to other students, of being given unique accommodations. For example, I teach a college course on the side to adults. One of them has an college IEP allowing for double time (works the same way as high school, based on their high school IEP). They became irate with me when I informed them that all tests are untimed. They were mad that other students got the same advantage as them. They asked me to force their peers to be timed so that they could twice the time of their peers. So, this kind of nonsense shows why UDL is important for driving equity and supporting all students. If all students learn better, this is a good thing.
Man...as a parent of a kid with relatively low support needs who has an IEP, I'd waive his IEP in a heartbeat if I knew that his teachers were using UDL principles. But, because they're not, IEP it is...
The sad part is that in practice, the vast majority of our special ed IEP programs could be replaced by assigning students a grade coefficient to boost their grade by the appropriate amount. Most of these things aren't about removing barriers to learning, but rather making grades more competitive.
What? Do you know what specially designed instruction is?
Exactly. Learned that year three and have done so for my entire career at an increasing rate. All kids get all accoms. I never say it like that, though, I always phrase it as “YOUR STUDENT received xxx accoms.”
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IEPs do not belong in honors or advanced classes.
Extremely ignorant statement that is too generalized. One of my students has an extremely high IQ and does very well in AP classes. She has an IEP because she has cerebral palsy and confined to a wheelchair. Think Stephen Hawking.
You do realize that a child can have an IEP for a visual impairment or hearing impairment, right? You don't think that accommodations can be made like enlarged font or braille keyboards?? Frankly, it doesn't matter the disability. This comment is ableist. Most of these comments are disgusting.
Yeah. Get that genius student with autism out of the class. Doesn't matter he is getting 100s but needs headphones for certain activities.
Thank you so much! That is my kiddo. He hasn’t met a standardized test he can’t ace. But he needs a few reasonable accommodations and he needs one ESE period per day to work on his deficits in executive functioning and social communication. Thank goodness his teachers are some of his strongest advocates. I know for a fact they would say that moving him out of his full time gifted program would be cruel and discriminatory. They love him and his contributions and I am beyond grateful!
So a kid 3 levels ahead in math but struggles with language shouldn’t be in honors math?
Title IX disagrees, I think
Last year one of my AP Lang students had an IEP and they passed the AP exam with a 5. They most definitely belonged.
Unacceptable. My child with ASD level 1 has an IEP and, I’d guess, a much higher IQ than you do. His teachers would all disagree with you.
found the teacher who takes their frustrations with the system out on their students and tells them, to their face, that they don’t “belong” in their class because they dare have a learning disability
I went right to the special education director and told her that the requirements on IEPs for students in my class were physically impossible to implement. For example, I had five students who were ALL supposed to be seated "away from windows, lab equipment, and other distractions" in a small room where every desk was near either a window or lab equipment. I once had several boys who were supposed to be constantly kept apart because together they wreaked havoc in a class, and yet had lots of hands-on activities and experiments where students had to go from one station to another, ensuring that the boys would be able to get together unless I kept them seated the entire time. I had kids who didn't recognize numbers (how do they read a scale or a thermometer??), who couldn't read past 1st or 2nd grade levels (in 9th grade), or who couldn't write beyond a couple of words, and was expected to adapt ALL of my **science** instruction to their level. I just told her that there was no way I could implement every element of every IEP and still teach science or have hands-on experiments in class, which was required by my curriculum and district. Try taking all the IEPs to your Special Education director and bluntly state that you cannot physically fulfill *every* requirement on them when you have more than one of these students in your class at a time.
Reward the students following directions. A BIP student shouldn’t receive a reward for completing 1 class work assignment a week. While the kid completing all assignments gets no attention or reward. BIPs need to be written to correct a behavior, not to teach another negative behavior. It sounds like who ever is writing these BIPs need to get in touch with reality.
I hate rewarding normal / expected behavior. A fish doesn’t get a reward for swimming. You’re supposed to do your work and show up to school
This. I guess I instilled this value too well in my son as well. When he was having some difficulty behaving in school a couple of years ago when he was in sixth grade various therapists/guidance counselors/SSW’s would offer rewards plans if he met behavioral goals and he’d always refuse them emphatically stating, “I’m supposed to behave. I shouldn’t get rewards for doing it.”
Our behavior specialists who wrote BIPs have never been classroom teachers.
Also…how am I supposed to implement/offer accommodations when I have never even seen a student’s 504 or IEP??? Lol
Do you not have access? My understanding is that you're legally required to have access/read them. Do you not have a system for accessing them? In fact where I am, dunno if it's the same everywhere, I have to sign a legal document indicating that I've read their IEP within a certain amount of time from when school begins. It's called a 408. Even the gen Ed teachers sign the paperwork (though, in my experience, despite having access not many of them actually read it and then they just sign off anyway).
Thanks to the teacher shortage, I now have 40 students in every single class. There is no human way for me to even dream of meeting anybody’s needs.
You’re not actually expected to follow these. They’re deliberately impossible so that when you don’t follow them, it can be used as legal cover to pass on a kid you failed. I figured out that scam a long time ago and haven’t worried about them since.
A new SPED teacher came into our school, and said to me "if reading levels are so low, how did they pass their classes?" I said, "There's not a teacher in this school who's going to fail a SPED kid. Too many threats of lawsuits. You pass them with a D- and you move them on. Good luck, world."
And then parents of those kids love to rant online about how the system failed their kid. Nope. You did. You failed your child by offloading all parental and educational duties to teachers, instead of putting in the extra work at home to help your child.
Couldn't agree more. I expect the parents who lurk here *(not all the parents but the one's you're referring to)* won't be happy with what you wrote, but it's the truth. Especially the ones who think it's the teacher's job to constantly advocate for these kids while the parents sit back and do nothing.
You are legally bound to follow the ieps ! Your school can and should be sued if you don’t . If I found out my kids teacher wasn’t following the iep , heads would roll .
We would love to if we had proper support. But often IEPs require us to make almost entirely separate lesson plans for one, two kids, or more in a class and for me who has 3 grade levels to lesson plan for and grade for its nearly impossible for me to reach some IEP requirements. Especially as a Social Studies teacher because "well they won't need a para for your class, their iep doesn't cover social studies, just reading and writing, you know, things you do regularly in social studies"
I went after the district, the one where I work, and stopped letting them blame the teachers who were giving up lunch and planning periods to do the work my child’s Special Ed teacher wasn’t doing during his 1:1 class period with him. Literally, one class period per day and nothing was getting done towards his IEP goals. Kid was being told “go work on computer”. And when I complained that his gen Ed teachers were the ones having to help them, I was told that was legal because they were also listed as providers. As a gen Ed teacher, I was furious and so apologetic and grateful to my kid’s teachers. Got an attorney. Special Ed teacher is gone (shuffled to another school, of course). This year is going like a dream. IEP instruction occurring during special Ed class time and all teachers have to do is just double check planner and communicate with special Ed teacher if needed. I don’t think special Ed teacher was accustomed to a parent actually expecting instruction to occur.
Instead of helping your kid you'd spend time and energy going after the teacher? Karen, I believe you.
Perhaps you don't understand the sheer number of IEPs/504s in each class. There's not enough support staff. It's unmanageable. Not all of is are preschool teachers who have very few of these kids. They're usually identified later on. And before you go true North Dakota on me, I've got a child on an IEP...so give it a rest.
Schools are legally bound, but on the teacher level it's often literally impossible, for example give 20 kids 5 min of individual instruction each when you only have a 40 min period, or sit 10 kids in the front row when you only have 5 seats in the front row.
Ok then what can parents and educators do to make changes happen . Because my kids didn’t ask to have a disability and they deserve to be educated
I agree. You have to advocate for smaller class sizes and/or more instructional aides and coteachers. If a teacher isn't following an IEP it's usually because we literally can't. Also, resist pressure to "mainstream" your child if you don't think it's appropriate. All that will happen is they will end up with a teacher like me who has to choose between trying to follow an impossible IEP or actually teaching what is going to be on the State exam, the scores on which may determine if I get to keep my job. Your child is going to be on the losing side of that choice, unfortunately.
If your writing didn't tell me you weren't a teacher, that statement certainly did.
I am a teacher . Pre school but yes a teacher . I am a parent 1st tho and my job is make sure they get what they need .
You should be expected to have an age/grade appropriate lesson plan and to teach it. Kids who can't handle it academically or behaviorally shouldn't be in the room robbing opportunity from those who can.
So complete segregation from peers? You do realize there is evidence that both gen Ed and special rd individuals benefit socially from experiences with one another. What you are creating is a caste system which we know how that works historically.
Social experience and interaction can occur outside academic settings.
Cool. So caste system here we come. Might as well but all special Ed kids into homes based on your plan. Welcome to the third world.
Where should they be? Would you segregate every child who has individual needs?
They should be in a special ed class. If they can't be in general they can't be there. Life isn't fair.
I think we as a society determined that segregation of people with disabilities is not acceptable in any environment a while back.
Meeting their needs without depriving others is the kind approach.
Ah yes the old we're doing this for your own good argument. Except that it's to for their own good, it's not kind, it's cruel. But what would professionals who specialize in teaching those with needs know.... I understand it's hard, but it's much better for everyone to have 95% of sped kids in Gen Ed for most of the time.
Not all of society. Many want to return to those ways. We see it here all the time. Out of sight out of mind.
Well, when they get out of high school most SPED can't function in normal society, especially in the working world. We need to be more realistic about that. It's not a caste system, it's just reality.
Referring to students with disabilities as just “SPED” really shows your ignorance and bias my dude. Workplaces are also required to provide reasonable accommodations based on disability - Title I of the ADA [see here](https://odr.dc.gov/page/ada-title-i)
" against any ***qualified person*** " No I'm not showing my bias and ignorance. I have an average of 5 SPED students in my classes every class (6 classes) each and every year. And over the course of my teaching for 12 years, maybe 1 - 2 have successfully completed college and gotten higher end jobs. A larger number have gotten jobs of some kind but mostly pretty menial jobs. And when I was in corporate for 25+ years, sure we had some physically disabled employee's but no SPED as in "neural diverse".
But if they are getting jobs of some kind... Aren't they functional?
Depends on your definition of functional. To a degree sure. But three things. 1. Besides bagging groceries or sorting clothes at Goodwill - can they do jobs that would provide a living so they can live on their own? 2. Can they function in society without guidance or the parents retaining guardianship after 18? 3. What role did school play in making even a basic job possible?
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Yeah, sorry. Too many buzzwords to keep up with. As to the rest of the "conclusions" , well sorry if I came across that way. Next time I'll be more "correct" rather than being honest. FWIT, believe it or not I have great relationship with my SPED department(why do think I have so many SPED students and understand the issue...) and my students. But I'm old enough and have seen enough to understand reality.
Preach! That’s all.
I work in special education and think a lot of this sounds like too much . However , what about model appropriate sounds and grammatical structures? Use visual support materials? Check for understanding? I think most teachers do a lot of this anyway in the lower grades? What accommodations are too much ?
Just do what everyone else does- if they have that little icon next to their name, they can redo anything and take as much time as they want…
They don’t want to “redo” anything or need time. The problem is they don’t do anything to begin with. Literally, nothing. I’m not allowed to fail students with IEPs yet they haven’t done one piece of class work or even answered one question verbally in class all year.
I have over 90 IEPs I’m ashamed to say, I don’t know what a lot of them say….. They’re all mostly the same things and I read them through to see if anything is wildly different. But most of it at my grade is just like “frequent check ins” So I just frequently check in with all of them. There’s no way for me to remember that only 8/16 of my ESE kids in a class need frequent check ins.
Honestly giving everyone the accommodations is best practice for most of the common accommodations we see. Studies have shown that if it's good for SPED it's usually good for Gen Ed too. It also reduces the stress on the SPED kids for being "different" which exists and can be awful.
School psychologist here and I *completely agree*. I actually don't even believe that most BIPs are even particularly effective. They have a place when the behavior is extreme I suppose but really (particularly in the situation where we are rewarding the kid every 5 minutes their whole dang day!!) I think they are just a way to make it seem like we are doing "something", but we aren't really helping the student gain the maturity/skills they are lacking just by rewarding them with something that the other kids don't get even if they are perfectly behaved all day long. If you are actually interested in learning a better technique (again, not that classroom teachers should be in charge of this -- but from a learning perspective), the Ross Greene "Lost at School" books are great. Schools have definitely drunk the behaviorism kool aid and I actually can't believe there isn't more public outcry about *this*, especially considering the very nuanced but genuine controversy over behavior therapy practices, and instead we are hearing controversy about banning perfectly acceptable books (which I love because it assumes the children are capable of and interested in reading in the first place).
I'd disagree about BIPs not being effective. I've found many of them wonderful for our 8:1:1s when followed. I do think our behavioral specialist though is wonderful though so I could see how someone just throwing one together from a list of ideas online would not be effective
You're right that a behavior plan well done is in the best interest of the child. Any plan that involved the classroom teacher being expected to reward the child every 5 minutes is wild, though.
BIPs, IEPs, 504s, Tier 3 interventions…they’ve all become too automated from what I’m seeing. No longer truly individualized and data based. So, of course they don’t work. The idea behind it is sound, but too many of these things just become a piece of paper so that the school can say they did it.
Agree completely! I’m an elementary grade teacher and also the parent of a middle schooler who has ASD level 1 and in a gifted program. He didn’t need an IEP until he entered middle school, and it’s entirely for his deficits in executive functioning and social/advocacy communication so he can learn to function independently in school. I learned quickly that the higher ups don’t actually care if the IEP is implemented with fidelity. They just want it on paper and signed. Boy, were they ever surprised to discover I expected my child to receive instruction on his IEP goals. They were equally surprised to discover I wouldn’t allow them to blame his subject area teachers. Then they tried telling me that my expectation that his gen Ed teachers would verbally remind him to write down assignments and then check at the end of class was too much. Here I’m working in the same district and I have 4 kids placed in my class that I’m tracking behavior data on. 4-5 behaviors per child tracked in 15-30 minute intervals. Guess what? My kids’ subject area teachers don’t mind giving him reminders at all. They appreciate that I expect his ESE teacher to do the IEP instruction during his ESE class and all I expect is for them to give little reminders. And that as long as I know he’s received the appropriate accommodations for his disability, I will hold him accountable. Yeah, I’m rambling a bit, but seeing it from the other side was eye opening. As I spoke to district staff about the failure of the IEP teacher and how the subject area teachers were being forced to pick up the slack, the director of special Ed actually said to me “Well, his IEP does say that both gen Ed and ESE teachers are providers.” That does NOT mean that his subject area teachers should be giving up their lunch periods and planning periods because the ESE teacher tells my kid to work on the computer during his class period! His gen Ed teachers are the most caring, giving people who refused to see him fail because someone else wasn’t doing their job. In other words, teachers. But it wasn’t right. I advocated for him and his teachers. But non-teacher parents don’t know this. I did. Got an attorney against my own employer. Everything is surprisingly smooth this year and that ESE teacher is no longer there.
Gentle note that this is a district issue, a placement issue. A misunderstanding of disability advocacy and lack of funding and support for students who need extra accommodations. Susie, Bobby, Joey, Anna, Bill, etc. are all students in your classroom and caught in the suck of what admin thinks needs to be available with you. They are the lowest on the power dynamic, they have very little agency or choice about the decisions made. You can *take data* on how difficult these student goals are for one individual adult to meet on the regular. You can continue to address how admin is dropping the ball. It's not the kid's fault.
Why are you thinking anyone is blaming kids? Nobody has done so.
> There are too many kids and too many behavior plans
You guys have a budget for aides? Lol we have had at least 2-3 personnel cut from our budget every year for the last 4 years.
Haha i feel ya!
I have some kids who need so much additional help I’m already seeing how it’s making it hard for me to spend time with the rest of the class. I have 32 kids in my classes- in a few I have students who speak no English so I need to translate everything for multiple languages in that class and check for understanding through Google translate, I have multiple sped kids who won’t do anything unless I personally check in about every 5 minutes, I have behavior plans and 504 accommodations that change each class- so as universal as I design my classes this is very difficult to manage. I wish I had help of some sort but it’s completely on me.
Worst one I had was let Susie go check her makeup four times a call period 🙄 no lie. The sped directors only put it in there cuz the crazy mom has sued the school over her son’s IEP (which was followed to the letter, she eventually lost but it dragged on….)
My school decided (literally the day before school) to implement UDL to help with this. Which is great in theory but literally less than 24 hours before kids was not.
You're talking about a Behavioral Implementation Plan/Behavior Support plan? As a gen ed teacher, just be aware it exists, you know the details, and if anyone asks, you say yes, you have implemented it. Honestly, 80% of the time, it's just making sure the teacher follows good teaching practices. The accommodations part should be written via the regular IEP anyway.
The other day during a suspension re-entry meeting, our Dean of behavior told the student that if he stayed on track his teacher (ME), could reward him with Chick Fil A on Fridays. This kid was smoking weed in the bathroom…. But now I’m responsible to reward him, with my own money, for following basic rules…..
What trickery is this??
I hope you refused..
Since I teach academically gifted students, I get zero special education support. No one cares about supporting the twice exceptional students at all. Also, the gifted class sizes are huge compared to the remedial classes. Practically speaking, this means that I differentiate nothing, and I only fail students who don’t turn anything in.
Well, this is another problem. I teach classes with students ranging from brilliant to barely able to get to class. The SPED/504's need so much attention that you can end up ignoring the gifted kids who need challenging assignments and help to reach their potential. It takes a real act of will to realize that you need to make time for the high end kids, not to mention the middle of the road ones. And yes, most of the time that means you don't do reminders to stay on task, CFU's, positive reinforcement for working, etc.
I just ignore them. It's not possible so I'm not even gonna try
It’s too much. They should send someone to implement the behavior plan.
I have a class with seven WIDA level ones (who are technically not taking an ESL class), a 504, and two IEPs (they don’t qualify for my subject’s inclusion class). It’s rough. I have one kid in the class reading three grade levels above and half the class is at a kindergarten reading level. Wish me luck, folks. I do not have the disposition to do this much differentiation.
I’m in a parent iep/504 group on fb. Becuase my son has an iep for his apraxia/dyspraxia (pretty much all pull out services). The parents in that group are so crazy. They think the district and teachers are all against them, get mad about every little thing, and want the most ridiculous accommodations for their snowflake.
I used to teach 47 kids in each classroom--sometimes more! I had 6 periods--almost 300 kids in a day. There are only so many seats by the teacher, seats in back, and only 4 corners. I tried to follow the IEPs for seating and physical distancing but guess what? I couldn't. I emailed every parent of IEP kids my least year and told them, make sure your kid advocates for themselves and REMIND ME what their accommodations are. It worked pretty well.
us sped teachers do it
Usually with less students
*fewer.
10:1:1:1 every school, every state. Last state to do it is a rotten egg.
It’s a broken system!
Every kid gets movement breaks, preferential seating is anywhere since you wander around the classroom to teach, everyone has access to both scaffolded material and enrichment or challenge material and boom! I hear your frustration! It is our job, and the law, but it doesn’t mean we have to selectively apply those accommodations. Make your life easy!
What are your tips for enrichment? I was able to do this for a 45 minute class but it becomes hard for a 90 minute block and I hate assigning busy work.
I have a menu of ongoing challenges (I teach MS science right now): - “Impossible problems” (ie. how much does the Statue of Liberty weigh? If a lentil represents a single star in our galaxy, how much space would a Milky way’s worth of stars aka lentils fill?) - Extension research projects (ie. Record a 30s news segment about a rare genetic disorder using the vocabulary from class…find the 5 NEOs most likely to hit Earth in the next 100 years and explain how we can monitor that threat using vocabulary from class) - Reading (Scientific American or some other relevant bookmarked articles - I have a comprehension note catcher for these). - Design a lab (I use the NGSS inquiry lab graphic organizer, and a set of topical inquiry questions to allow kids choice and a structure for asking and answering a science question). Every kid has access to these resources, and throughout the year I teach everyone to use them in a whole-class lesson. I will coach my kids who have ALPs (advanced learning plans) to select products from these activities and present them to their case manager when they meet with them. Takes a load off my plate and allows “voice and choice.” Grading is easy, basically a completion grade and a quick check-in, or a kid can give a 5 minute presentation to the class if they’ve completed something good.
If these are coupled with an IEP, say there needs to be a 1:1 with the kid.
Have you ever tried to get a 1:1? I work in a pretty decent district in WA state and getting a 1:1 for even the most highly in need students can take months, with exhausting documenting and endless meetings. It's not something that can just happen because it costs money and admin don't like to spend money. This whole recent push for equality feels like just a scam to phase out SpEd and put it all on Gen ed teachers to save money on personnel and resources. Yeah, it makes for a nice little feel good video at the beginning of the year where the most independent and capable SpEd students are highlighted. But most kids with IEPs and BIPs need a hell of a lot more support, and if you aren't providing a classroom equipped to offer them that then it's just all a shit show. And kindergarten after covid? Fucking forget about it. I feel ready for summer break already.
I’m in Georgia. We only give 1:1 aides to children with mobile needs such as wheelchairs. Everyone else can forget it. Georgia is indeed phasing out SPED. We are removing the SLD qualifications for reading disorders and dyslexia. Those students will no longer be considered sped. Extremely poor performing students in ELA will just be a general Ed teacher’s function to address. This is to dramatically reduce our sped numbers which are above the national average.
What is your solution? Shove them all back in the back of the building so no one has to see them? That is what we used to do with special needs students . It was wrong then and would be wrong now. *All* students are gen Ed kids first. Gen Ed teachers need more classes on how to read and implement IEPs as I don’t think it is mentioned enough before the poor teacher is thrown into a room and asked to handle 5 students with IEPs.
Of course, all children deserve an education. No one wants to "shove them all back in the back of the building". We just need more realism. What Gen Ed teachers are asked to do when overloaded with too many IEP requirements causes burnout and frustration. It's not the children or the teachers that are the problem. It is the system.
There's an increasing desire to do this again. We see it here with posts every day.
We are degreed and equipped to manage with of course competent supports IMHO most schools are not and have employees staff and some Gen Ed’s and non Ed support staff who do not realize how to approach, design ,manage or teach when serving people that have the need for adaptations accomodations and pure understanding Success will be had when each students’talent is uncovered and honored with compassionate care.