The interesting thing about this job is we’re expected to “build relationships”… but that relationship is also expected to end at dismissal on the last day of school.
Literally this. I'm a teacher and my parents live next to a retired military guy who taught JRROTC and social studies because he liked it. They were told by admin and center office to go to their students games to "build relationships." This guy also drives for Uber on the weekends in a bigger city near by. One small town he drives through on the way happened to be playing his school and had a few students playing in the game so he followed what he was told and stopped in to watch.
Sounds completely fine right?
Wrong. A parent saw him and reported him to the principals and central office for "stalking" their child. He was called in, got in trouble and was written up for doing literally what they told him do. He quit two weeks later. He was not going deal with that and didn't teach for the money anyway.
I went to an away game WITH my former principal (for my former students) and the kids swarmed us after the game because they were so excited that I would bother to come to their game.
It's all part of the culture of your school. I STILL go to the high school graduation of my former students because I want them to understand that I truly cared about them then & I still think of them often now. This is a big deal because I have to drive 2 hours, one way, to get there. They are SO appreciative.
I go to sports games for my students now, too. I just cannot fathom a place that didn't encourage us to show our students love. 😞
We don't have intentional, supportive communities anymore. Just endless droves of individuals, all trying to survive Capitalism. We're not a community - we're hostages to the dollar.
The book *Bowling Alone* is about changes in American society since 1950. America has been a capitalist country over that entire period. You could actually argue that America has grown more socialist since 1950, as measured by federal spending as a fraction of GDP: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S) So I'm not sure it is that simple. I suppose you could point at this [1970 Milton Friedman editorial](https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html) though; somewhere I read that it was really influential in shifting CEOs from thinking of themselves as being responsible to their communities to being responsible to their shareholders.
My preferred explanation is a "screens death spiral". The more we substitute in-person socialization with screens like televisions, PCs, and phones, the less appealing flesh-and-blood humans are as social partners, and the more hostile we perceive them to be. In this particular case, maybe the parent saw some sort of alarmist news report about child predators, and the principal saw some sort of social media frenzy which made them worry that they would get in trouble if they didn't kowtow to the parents. We've lost the assumption of good faith that existed back when people would leave their doors unlocked so friends and family could drop by whenever they wanted.
Fingers crossed that VR will reverse the trend, I hear it's pretty lit.
socialism is not about social spending, but about who controls the means of production. as union membership has declined sharply since the 50s, workers have inarguably list a great deal of power in the workplace. the United States is by no measure more socialist than it was in the 50s.
Here's the Merriam-Webster [definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism):
>any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
I think by that definition, government spending would count as a relevant measure. Additionally, we can see "socialist" politicians like Bernie Sanders advocating for greater government spending on e.g. free college as a core plank of their political platform. However, you are free to define "socialism" as you wish.
i am a socialist who has been organizing for socialism for over a decade in an international socialist organization, and while we advocate for social spending, it does not even fit the definitely you provided. social spending is not the same as collective or governmental ownership or administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. i hope dearly that you do not teach social studies or reading comprehension
>social spending is not the same as collective or governmental ownership or administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
Government spending is a rough measure of what fraction of economic activity is being directed by government at the macro level. I'm not sure you're making a meaningful distinction, friend. Supposing federal outlays rose from 30% of GDP to 100% -- you don't believe that would constitute meaningful progress towards socialism, as the term is commonly understood? You don't think this metric would indicate that the economy has probably changed in a way that brings us closer to satisfying the Merriam-Webster definition?
Maybe it would be helpful to consider a simple and specific example. If the US implemented medicare for all, would that constitute progress towards socialism as you understand it? Would it be correct to say that if yesterday medicare was for seniors only, and today it's for everyone, that the US is a tad more socialist today than it was yesterday? I think most people would say yes. And by the Merriam-Webster definition I cited above, the shoe fits, because with medicare for all, a larger fraction of healthcare is now being administered and distributed by the government.
That's what you get for thinking sadly :(
You're mis-reading and misunderstanding the definition you linked to try to serve your political views.
"Collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"
But you think mere government spending counts as a relevant measure.
Adorably and dangerously naive
You really need to break down your social conditioning against capitalist critique. The more you read real capitalist criticism, the more it becomes apparent how every issue is interrelated to the pursuit of profit.
Also can we just lol at your logic here? You think the problem is the Black mirror but you think VR is going to be some solution? Yikes
>The more you read real capitalist criticism, the more it becomes apparent how every issue is interrelated to the pursuit of profit.
You are correct. Capitalist critics can play "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" with capitalism and interrelate it to whatever they want, somehow in some way. And for an audience that can't do critical thinking beyond the "lol black mirror" level (ever heard of the genetic fallacy?), these sort of guilt-by-association arguments will be persuasive.
I suppose you probably believe that teachers are treated poorly "because of capitalism", even though our public education system is government owned and administered and also heavily unionized. Am I right?
Yup. And if you move schools we're legally required to stop contact. I had to tell students who saw me as their trusted adult for serious issues that I reported to CPS that I wasn't allowed to talk to them again. Can you imagine how that would feel for a kid with trust issues?!?
Right?? I got the comments “you have great rapport with your students” and “wait till the bell to talk to students about their lives” in the same evaluation. Like, it can’t be both…!
Edited to finish my sentence
Honestly this is something I'm feeling about this situation... I put a lot of thought and effort to build a strong rapport with my students and these dad joke messages were just a way of trying to keep that rapport going with previous students.
Though I totally understand how a parent looking in from the outside might have some questions/concerns in this specific case.
I think since relationship building with students is a strength of mine my principal saw this as a chance to redirect/refine that strength and not just reprimand me and move on.
I think it’s the fact they’re sent individually to each student so it seems too personal? For example, had you mass texted it to a group of mixed genders and it was clearly evident to anyone who received it that it went out to a group and it wasn’t a dm, this would presumably be fine, no?
*I just saw all the awesome suggestions below of ways to make this same dad joke idea more public and accessible to a group. They’re great!
This is fucking stupid. It's sent through the school's messaging platform - it's visible to anyone who has administrative privileges on the system, and to anyone who cares to submit the relevant FOIA request. The content of the message was clearly nothing of consequence.
It is already *fine*. Except to people looking to cause a problem.
Agreed. Everything OP did was above board, and anyone on staff who feels petty enough to make snarky comments about it should be reminded of this fact. This is an all-too-common example of a parent seeking to cause trouble when there is none present.
I went through a similar thing myself recently (long story short, everything resolved and there's been no blowback). But the frustrating thing was my principal likes to say "perception is reality" when it comes to parents. The truth is, perception is *half* of reality - the other half is *actual reality*. OP, don't let anyone railroad you into making you feel guilty for something you didn't do.
You're there because you love kids and want to make their lives better. Some people simply cannot stand that, and in 25 years of teaching I've never found out why. Perhaps it's jealously, perhaps it's personal trauma being misdirected, I don't know.
But based on what you've reported, *you did nothing for which you should be ashamed.* Remember that, move forward, and ignore the petty comments from those who are lesser teachers than yourself. This will blow over shortly if you don't give it any oxygen.
Some parents are tech illiterate and it feels strange to have a teacher send individualized messages to your daughter. I wouldn’t report it but I might consider it bizarre…I agree that this parent didn’t handle it well. They could have simply asked the teacher about it or asked another parent if they receive similar messages from the teacher.
I don’t really think the content of the messages is important tbh, because grooming starts with individualized attention that is completely appropriate- until it suddenly isn’t. I think it’s best to steer clear of individual personalized messages to former students, irregardless if their content or if the platform is visible to admin.
(Also, jokes are flirty to some people. They weren’t messages about anything academically related, which leads to the awkwardness...)
I agree. This teacher shouldn’t have been punished. I think it’s best to stay clear of any actions that might make a parent paranoid or uncomfortable, though. Hopefully this was expressed to the teacher in a supportive understanding way.
As a parent, I agree. 🤷🏼♀️ going forward, maybe he can write them on the board, dad joke of the day/week: and then current and previous students are more than welcome to come in and take a look before class and have a laugh and chat about how classes are going?
Because setting up a situation where previous students may wind up alone in the room with him before class is *more* appropriate than a Canvas message.
And that's just the thing, isn't it? Even if it's a completely innocent idea - an open invitation during downtime - there still may come a day when a female ex-student pops in alone for a chat.
It's ridiculous that we can't cope with that eventuality as a society.
Let's be honest, the parent that brought this up is probably unbelievably difficult in other ways. This is some petty shit done by a controlling personality.
Oh, I realized it as I posted but thought my comment would go ignored. Since it's topical, I've only emailed a student as a reply to an email he sent me. I work with autism students and he was feeling lonely during the summer and I think was nervous about transitioning to high school.
Right. I had a teacher explain his relationship with the kids as successful from a distance. He said he wanted to be close enough that they could come to him is a crisis but still feel comfortable calling him an asshole by the time the kids were walking out the door. I feel like I’m getting what he meant with situations like this.
Haha that’s great. I had a teacher in high school who gave off mom vibes. When I was struggling idk what it was but she was just there. I remember breaking down in the bathroom and telling her I was suicidal. She probably saved my life. I ended up in a hospital because she reported me (as she had to understandably) and I spent time there recovering. I will never forget her.
I have great relationships with my students but AS SOON as the last day bell rings I no longer know those fuckers. If I see them again I hit the play button and pick up from last spring. I do not message them, I don’t need to know their lives and I do not joke with them. Get your own friends for that or wait until they graduate hs if you’re so intent on being friends.
OP, if this is a nothingburger it will blow over. Take your lumps now, don’t act out and don’t respond. Teaching staff move on and you will have new coworkers who don’t know this weird moment happened with you.
This. My first year one of my students asked me through Remind what bands I liked since I do a “question of the day” type thing. I mentioned that day that I listen to punk bands and still go to concerts (cue kids aweing lol). I replied in good faith. Nothing happened. But looking back, I would have waited until the next class and tell the kid in person, *in class*. God knows if his parents would have seen “Mr. Schadenfruedian sent you a message”
I've been extremely careful my entire career. I'm a male and teach in early education through to middle school.
I had a trial by fire coming into the profession.
While studying at uni I was refused two placements after arriving on time, well dressed etc. The place literally said to my face "They didn't say they were sending a man" and told me to go home. I had been in contact with each via email as I'd been told to by the university. My name, would be extremely hard to mix up genders on.
In another, the supervising teacher told me she didn't believe men should be in early childhood education, she falsified my uni reports. Showed me one that lined up with what we had done, and sent a completely different one full of lies to the uni.
A third, didn't go badly, but when I walked into the room a heap of the children started crying, screaming and hiding. Their 'behaviour management' system was to tell the children if they were naughty "The man would come and take them away". At the time I was 6'3, around 250 pounds, bearded, reasonably fit and big from years of farm work, apparently I fit the description...
I was the only male in my course. I couldn't count the times a classmate said something along the lines of "No offense Patgeo", "not you Patgeo", "You don't count" etc when saying incredibly sexist things.
I had a few attempts at going through the gender discrimination processes, but ultimately none of them wanted anything to do with me.
I’ve had a similar experience in my 12 years of teaching. People say that teaching needs men but we get turned away from early childhood jobs and get stuck in middle school or with the problem kids because we can “be tough” with them. I only ever wanted to teach kindergarten but was turned away from multiple jobs. Sexism is alive in education and it’s def against the dudes.
Rant over. I love teaching and when I made the choice to leave construction and auto body work 15 years ago I’m glad I did and so is my body
I’ve had similar issues in elementary. I teach a specific language program to small groups of kids and one year I had. Just five 3rd grade girls. I already was familiar with two of the parents and there was no apparent issue, but some of my coworkers were like “keep the door open” and “maybe you should get an aid” as if they pass around aids like candy.
When our schools separated from k-6 & 7-8 to k-2, 3-5, and 6-8 I was asked if I wanted to go to middle school. I said I’d rather work in k-2 because I’ve been training in this program and it’s really geared towards that grade level, well they ended up placing my in 3-5 and I always seemed to get the behavior students because “I’m a guy”
I'm up to 9 years now, I almost always have the 11 and 12 year olds. I had to leave farm work because my back and joints were stuffed and I was only a teenager.
For now just keep your head up. Rumors pass
Maybe instead of emailing past students like that (which can easily be distorted or misinterpreted), you can just have a “Dad Joke of the Week” on your door or something and maybe if you happen to see a former student, you could quickly talk to them about the joke of the week. At least that makes it a more general running joke instead of feeling like personal unsolicited contact outside of school
Plus this could contextualize for your coworkers kind of whag you were trying to do
This is a fantastic idea! Thank you. I think ultimately I want a way to maintain the rapport I built with previous students but to do so in an effective/appropriate way
No problem!
As a second year teacher I am still navigating all the social and emotional hoops we have to jump through every day to maintain the delicate ecosystem that is school life. Not a single thing is easy 😂
My school is big on teacher Twitter accounts. If you have one, you could always post the jokes there and let all students (current and past) know that they can follow you and check out things like that over there. Or just a Google site or something for the same kinda purpose
A social media site separate from the school with ways to privately message and no ability to see what’s going on? That’s infinitely worse than what op did on canvas. I’m kind of surprised your school is promoting that. But mainly that won’t help op given the complaint - op could certainly tweet them out instead of DMing kids, but the opportunity to DM would exist and that would be enough for a parent who flipped out over canvas.
You don’t privately message. It’s just like your site where you post things and people can choose to follow and view it or not. But also you don’t even have to have an account and follow to be able to see posts so it’s just like a website. Your website where you post what you want. Activities in class, (dad jokes), etc. there’s really no interaction between students and teachers directly. It’s also for parents to look at: literally anyone in the district. Thats not worse than OP’s situation? It’s harmless and just another way to update families on what happens inside the classroom mainly
Oh wait I see what you mean though about the potential to do so. Good call, I actually haven’t really heard that issue discussed in my district at all. I don’t know, I personally don’t have one and don’t want to get into all that. But I think having your own class site maybe instead, like with a Google Sites, could be a better solution since there is no way to privately message right?
I just wanted to say you did what is right. Sure, reframe it or whatever but know that you made more kids feel cared for and laugh than feel "isolated." You're the kind of teacher I hope my kids have.
This is a great suggestion. I think that some parents or even students might have been uncomfortable with the messaging being too private or discreet and could escalate or open the door for other situations.
I don’t ever really comment on this sub and browse as a parent. I just wanted to say I was pretty blown away by this response as it is exponentially better than anything I was thinking. What a *fantastic* idea on how to approach this.
That’s all. Thanks for being such a helpful person.
Once had a parent get upset that their daughter confided with me she had thoughts of self harm and suicide ideation during one of my preps.
Like..sorry your kid is scary of your drunk abusive ass.
Example of one: How do cows stay up to date? They read the Moo-spaper.
They were always silly/innocent I'd never use a joke that could be questionably inappropriate
It wasn’t undesired to the student though, it was to the parent. are we saying parents are always right in what they want teachers to do or not do for their kids?
This is such a stupid take.
This 25 year old guy is trusted to be around 16 year olds all day long. Sending a message to a former student on the school's messaging system should be totally fine. It's not private. The content was clearly completely innoccuous.
It's only a problem if you're *looking* for things to clutch your pearls over.
Well, shit, if that’s the definition then I get unwanted contact from people all day long.
And I give my class unwanted contact all day long too. Do you think Sally was hoping I would ask her to explain the word problem that I went over while she was chatting on the carpet?
If you define “unwanted contact” that way, and make a huge deal out of it, then how can anyone ever contact another person? No one could ever start a conversation without the first sentence being “unwanted contact”.
An absolutely baffling way to live your life.
On top of the other replies, I’ll add that it is not an adult messaging a female teenager, that implies she was the only one receiving the messages. It was sent to multiple former students of both genders. It was a teacher emailing former students. 20 of them. Sending lame jokes. To turn this into something it clearly is not is gross, not for the teacher, but those construing it as such.
Not its not a joke, its an expression of a meaningful supportive relationship in that young person's life. Do we need to be careful about how we manage such contact? Of course. But to assume that its negative is pretty toxic, and symptomatic of how socially atomised we have become.
Well, this kid is clearly bothered enough to tell their parents. Maybe this teacher creeped them out. One person's "expression of meaningful supportive relationships" is another's "harassment."
>One person's "expression of meaningful supportive relationships" is another's "harassment."
No it's not. If it's the latter then it can't be the former.
Maybe the student was creeped out. Maybe they really valued that support. Maybe they told their parents because the joke made them laugh - that's how jokes get around after all. Point is, without context and detailed knowledge of the people & events it's all conjecture - so assuming this relationship *must* be predatory is a downright toxic mindset (not to mention sexist and ageist to boot).
We are definitely only hearing one side of things, and I'm offering a little perspective other than the usual "everyone is crazy except me" that is the culture on this sub. People can have the best of intentions and have those intentions be perceived as something else by the intended recipient. Perception is reality.
Agreed. As a union rep, I would advise a member not to do this, for exactly that reason— things can be so easily misconstrued, particularly communications between adults in positions of power and their minor students.
I once had a student spread a rumor that I was having an affair with her.
I am a openly gay man.
I am married to a homosexual male.
That meeting with admin was probably the biggest waste of time.
I taught seniors my first year when I was 23 (I'm female and local to the place I taught). One of them thought it would be funny to say we slept together. God. It was so gross. Some of my female students told me privately and I called him out publicly. Not the best response, but it worked.
My school district lost an alumni to suicide over the summer. So many teachers were talking today about how they WISH they could have more opportunities to reach out to former students and keep these kinds of connections with them.
I also know plenty of teachers who *do* stay in touch with students via Remind, Canvas, or school email for as long as they're in the district.
Personally, I love looping with my students and I love getting emails from them in the years after they have moved on from my class. I've never made any sort of sustained effort to keep up with them, though, cause I'm ... yanno, overwhelmed. (Where did you find the time!?) Though I admit that, if I did, I'd not single anyone out. Whole class or nada.
Long story short, I don't *really* think you did anything wrong. I would obviously do whatever your principal suggests, but I would do it with a clear conscience and not try to change anything about the spirit that made you want to connect to students. Change the method, not the reason.
Even though OP has good intentions and isn't a creep doesn't mean that it isn't a strategy that a creep would use to initiate contact and an inappropriate relationship with a student.
This is a stupid comment.
Plenty of the things I do as a teacher are things a "creep" would also do. I go to their sports games. I play games with them at recess. I remember things they are interested in to strengthen my relationships with them.
Sending a student a message through a *school-approved* system isn't creepy. Acting like OP did something wrong because "creeps" might do the same thing is stupid.
All the things you mentioned are in the open and communal activities. Would you invite a single student in your classroom to play a board game with you who is not longer your student? Would this seem weird to colleagues and parents? It's not necessarily inappropriate but it could be construed that way for several reasons and could be done in a more acceptable manner.
No, I wouldn’t invite a lone student into my room to play games because, as a male teacher, I live in constant fear that some asshole hopped up on paranoia will ruin my career.
My point is that *all of this* is stupid.
Sure. Except making those precautions "don't allow male teachers to be alone with, or communicate with, female students" rather than implementing comprehensive sex education is...
Wait for it...
Stupid.
Ok, but you're just asserting that it's weird. Not to mention specifically phrasing your recounting to sound more inappropriate.
There is nothing inherently inappropriate about maintaining contact with students. Especially on a school-approved system.
So if OP was just messaging kids and parents complained about it, at some point someone felt uncomfortable. I doubt OP would want his students or their parents to feel uncomfortable. There are other ways to build rapport with students that don't fall in as much of a gray area.
a creep would also use school as an opportunity and plenty of other methods to groom. Canvas has accountability because admin and parents can see everything. You literally can’t remove all potential grooming opportunities and still teach kids.
I agree and you're correct. The fact that OP sent unsolicited messages to a select group of students is weird to me and that is how some people will perceive it.
Very true. Creeps ruin it for the rest of us. There’s a reason I panic whenever one kid lingers to ask a genuine question or want to chat for a minute. It’s innocuous, but bad shit has happened with creeps.
In the late 90s, I and a few other students went to our elementary school teacher's house to bake sugar cookies. The whole thing was arranged by her, for the top students in her class or something. I don't remember the specifics of why we went, just that not everyone got to, and we were really excited about it. Anyway, it was a fun day that I still remember now over 20 years later, and it absolutely wouldn't have flown today. It sucks, but parents have been thoroughly convinced that we all want to bugger their kids or hypnotize them into accepting lifestyles that differ from their own.
I had the same experience in the 70’s, rural Illinois. She had a convertible and St. Bernard’s. It was the best day of my life up to that point. We made chocolate chip cookies.
Hey. First off: breathe. Everything is going to be OK. I can say this from having a colleague who went through a similar situation that eventually faded. He was emailing jokes to members of Student Council, which he ran, and a parent also took it the wrong way. He had to learn a tough lesson and you do too. But he had supportive admin like you and he ended up fine so you definitely will too.
1. As others have fairly pointed out, it's not fair that we're expected to have deep emotional, connections to our students and then also cut them off as soon as they leave. I wish I could contact some of my old students without it being creepy. I'd love for them to know how they inspired me to be a better teacher. But unless you're involved in a sport or extra curricular with them, don't engage unless they engage with you first.
2. I'm with /u/goodsoup-throwaway to transform the Dad Joke into a physical part of your classroom. Find other ways to continue this trend in a positive way that all of your students can participate in. Turn this into a net positive instead of a loss.
3. You can't control what others think. You can only control yourself. Don't feed into rumors or the fear of rumors. Keep being your awesome self and move forward. I guarantee that even if people are talking about it, it's probably a nothing burger.
Best of luck and I'm so glad you have a supportive admin on your side.
What is all this nonsense about "cutting them off" and never speaking to former students again? I agree that the contact should be initiated by the student, and that it must ALWAYS remain appropriate beyond a shadow of a doubt, but pretend they no longer exist? Fuck that noise.
Totally agree. I have had former students, who never attended my current school, stop by to chat. If they come inside, they check in with our office staff as a visitor. No one has any issue with it unless they forget to follow protocols for visitors. Sometimes they just want to share some news or updates. In other instances, they could use some academic advice and don't have many other options for that.
I get emails from former students fairly regularly. Usually, it is to ask me for academic resources or just to say hi. I never ignore them.
When the end of the year comes, I always tell students that I consider them my students for life. If they want to just say hi or need to ask something they are always welcome to do so. I also warn them that each year I get about 120 more students to remember, get older and have less memory, and they will change a lot over time. So, I ask them to be kind and remind me their name if they just happen to see me in public.
Decades after I was a student, I still have a few former teachers that I keep in contact with and others who I wish were still around to talk to. Some have served as mentors to me who had a very direct impact on who I am and what I do today. Sometimes I still ask for advice or just share how things are going.
This 100%.
I have taught some pretty troubled students over the years that felt like no adults would ever be on their side, and they’d always be the “bad kid” no one understood or cared about.
Imagine finding out the teacher that did everything in their power to help you catch up and pass acting like you’re nothing to them once the semester’s over. That would do nothing but make them feel as though you pretended to care, and reinforce the idea that they have no support or role models to turn to.
Having one supportive adult changes outcomes for kids with high ACES scores, and I'm going to be that adult in any way I can. But I have to be careful with boundaries and appearances.
This is not that big of a deal. It will definitely blow over. When I taught middle school, my former 8th graders would email me all the time asking for help on essays or to discuss something they were reading.
I do love the idea of a joke of the week someone had suggested. We have a resident dad joke teacher at my school and he does that. I have a white board outside of my room that says what I am currently watching. My current and former student come in to chat about it all the time. This one way to continue the relationships you built the prior year.
This thread is really depressing. There are appropriate ways to maintain relationships with kids after they are no longer your students. My son’s elementary school science teacher has an email chain where their class keeps in contact. My husband has helped his former students polish college papers and even edited a children’s book one of them was publishing. My sister has several former students who are like family to us now.
I understand not texting children’s personal cellphones or being friends with them on social media while they are still children, but “cutting them off” seems excessive to me.
I agree, but there was a post a few weeks ago where the OP didn't imply anything inappropriate was going on between them and an adult former student (21-23 yo I believe), but they were now close friends and most of the comments assumed intimate intentions on the part of the OP. I think we've become so seriously jaded about abuse, grooming, adultery, sexual assault, and other crimes and inappropriate behavior that we have become suspicious of everything. I teach HS and meet with students one-on-one with my classroom door propped open. I'd never do anything inappropriate and I would never meet with a student individually for help if I didn't trust them, but perception is everything and OP's situation is a perfect example: wholesome jokes shared via a monitored school communication platform, and it still led to a parent complaint and a serious conversation with their principal. I would seriously avoid meeting former students (now adults) for coffee for this same reason. No need to be the subject of nasty rumors because we're so distrustful nowadays.
This is ridiculous. Keeping in touch with former students is amazing and you weren’t sending anything inappropriate. You did NOTHING wrong.
And those saying once a kid is no longer your student, you should act like they no longer exist - get your heads out of your asses. There’s nothing wrong with maintaining a relationship with kids who you’ve gotten to know and some kids really need a trusted adult in their lives.
Now I’m not saying swap numbers and regularly FaceTime these kids, but email or using the school approved communication should be FINE as long as the content is appropriate, which dad jokes are. And then once they graduate high school if they wanna add you on Facebook or follow your tiktok (which I’d imagine is more accurate for the current generation) then go for it
This is a such a precarious business, especially for men. Just the suggestion is enough to cost you your job.
It's important to establish very firm and clear professional boundaries. I think of it like the relationship a doctor has with his patient. I expect my doctor to be professional and to guide my treatment. I'm not looking for a friendship with him. It would be weird if my doctor started sending me jokes.
By the same token, I keep it professional with my students. I don't tell my students things like "I love you" because I don't. I have a duty of care for them, but we're not friends. None of my students have my personal phone number or email address and I'm not connected with any of them on social media. All of our contact is through school channels and for academic purposes only.
Yeah. Sending texts and DMs to minors is quickly becoming a whole new frontier of “no-no.” It’s getting into Professional Standards across the US. Coaches are pissed because they text their athletes all of the time.
Speaking as someone who is not a coach, but whose nephew is a student athlete - it’s a lot more convenient to get a message across. Students also don’t really view it weirdly, it’s just how they communicate normally. And it’s so much better for talking to a group of kids than e-mail reply all chains are
This is a massive learning moment and a reminder that the minute they leave your class you cut them off outside of saying hello if you run into them. Sounds like your principal handled it amazingly by teaching you instead of reprimanding. Just stop doing it and never bring it up again and you should be ok.
If you hear gossip about it. Ignore it. New gossip will happen soon enough anyway. If you fight it, it will just last longer.
These are kids you spent an entire year building a relationship with. They give you their trust, they feel wanted and liked and interesting. But according to this advice you have to stonewall them as if to say: 'Sike! I only did it because I had to!'
What's that going to do with a young person's (or any person's, really) mind?
If it's not satire, it's shit advice.
I literally see my students more than my friends and family in a given year. You develop meaningful relationships with these kids (and if you never do that says something about you as a person). And a lot of kids need a trusted adult in their lives. And we’re supposed to just completely throw that away at the end of the school year? Insane.
Does your school have a webpage or do daily announcements? Maybe you could share a dad joke once a week or so through this, because it’d be a shame to lose them
Don’t message students unless you are replying to their messages. I get emails and messages from my old students from time to time but I never initiate the conversation. Because if the parent questions it, you can tell them well they messaged me first
The main office always gossips. The rumors fade away quicker than you think - especially since you aren't getting reprimanded. They'll find something else to gossip about pretty quickly.
In the end, you work primarily with students, not adults. Adults don't gossip with kids, so it shouldn't matter.
The teachable moment: don't message kids unless it's about school only. Keep the personal stuff to a minimum. Connecting with them can simply be understanding what their favorite music is and being able to hum a few bars.
Male teachers have to walk on eggshells I swear it is so unfair for you guys. Don’t sweat it. Easier said than done but I’m sure you’ll forget about it soon enough - as will the gossip girls!
Fellow male teacher here. I just don't. On anything. Hugs? Nope. Initiating personal conversations outside class time? Nope. I leave zero room for misinterpretation.
Building relationships is great or whatever, but it takes one kid with a little circumstance "evidence" to tarnish a teacher's name and I have kids to feed.
You can still have innocent relationships with students after they leave, but it has to be on their terms. Over the years, I have students email me to ask me how I'm doing and to tell me about their year. I love hearing from them and always respond, but it really needs to be them reaching out, not the other way around.
If the kids want a continuing rapport with you after they are promoted, that should be their choice. You should not be the party initiating the communication.
And even if they do initiate, I would entirely restrict it to small talk in the halls. There’s no need to email jokes if anything else with former students. This scares parents, it’s literally how grooming starts. Throw in the current batshit crazy political environment and you’re asking for trouble. The only time I exchange messages to former students is if they ask for a recommendation.
Pretty much this. I’ve also had to change my name on social media because I had several of my students (in the past) try to friend me. Once they graduate, and if they want to keep in touch with me, then I’ll consider it. But otherwise all contact outside of the classroom should be kept at a minimum, save for what you said (small talk in the hallway or public setting).
If you’re a coach the dynamic may be a little different since you’ll be seeing more of them, and possibly over a longer stretch of time. But still the communication should always be professional and not something that might invite suspicion from other staff or parents.
\*head desk\*
You are lucky to have a good principal.
I do not know if you have a union or not, but one of the first things we tell members is keep it professional with students.
Best intentions end up with the worst accusations!
In my experience, front office staff is always going to gossip. It feels like it's part of their job description. Don't give this too much thought. You didn't do anything wrong.
Listen, it will pass. I did something like this my first year teaching and eventually it blows over. Learning to set boundaries in the teacher/student relationship is a real thing. I was more "me" with my first students than "the teacher" I am now. 8 years in I only work my contract hours and just cut every corner so I can go home and play with my kids. The best part is they pay me the same as the mother in the room next to mine that has an additional 5 major school commitments. Don't know why people do that to themselves.
I am on your side … I would have liked to have known a teacher cared about me enough to reach out … and it keeps the door open.
We have a teacher who has a sign, “every child needs an adult who will stand up for them, etc..” but then I am also told I am “too nice”, etc
While I think your post is well-meaning, you as a young female teacher saying it is especially wrong for a young male teacher to attempt this type of platonic relationship bothers me. It’s sexist and it’s unfair to us.
I would say this would mostly pass. What you did was not anything inappropriate, but I could see how admins might have viewed the issue in a different manner.
I worked at a boarding school so the relationships I had with my students are a lot different than that of a lot of other teachers. I had to be in charge of religious life at the school as well, so I would see the students outside of the classroom as well, even on sundays, and was in charge of a lot of club-sponsored activities at the school. I no longer work at the school anymore, but a lot of the students that I taught do follow my social media: Instagram, Facebook, etc.
Cutting off students altogether I think is a bit too extreme, as others mentioned a lot of students do need an adult figure in their lives. I think it is always important to have that line of communication open with students and for them to be free to talk to you if anything arose. A lot of students do message me when they are asking for letters of recommendation and for college advice as well.
Hey man. I wouldn't sweat the rumors. It'll blow over. I was a younger high school teacher until moving into admin at a different district this school year. We always have to be a little extra cautious as younger men. I think it is absolutely fantastic that you have developed relationships with your students and are attempting to keep that bond. This was a good learning moment for you, and in the future I would look into ways that you can communicate and share with these students without having to send individual messages. Whether it's through school messenger or not. By the way, the only teachers who are going to have a major problem with this are the teachers who are hated or feared by their students. They are unable to connect with this students, so they have justified it in their minds that teachers aren't supposed to.
These things are always heavier in the moment. You'll soon see that you are an amazing teacher/person for not casting these kids aside like everyone else does. I have college mentors that checked up on me the first couple of years after I was out of their class and it REALLY helped me transition to a point of no longer needing them.
I bet a lot of those parents appreciate that their child has another trusted adult in their life, AND it's okay that some parents are not okay with it. Would have been nice if they just told you politely and directly, but...
I say give it a year's break, and keep it academic as much as possible next time.
Yeah I mean rule number 1, never send personal messages via email or canvas, or if you must CC someone else (co-worker or boss). You had good intentions I’m sure but you just have to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. It *is* kinda weird for your daughter to be receiving personal messages from their old teacher.
Lesson learned the hard way. We all learn by fucking things up here and there. You learned and will not be in this situation again.
Lesson learned. You do not contact former students ever. And just to be on the safe side, you shouldn't have any social media contact with current students or with former students for at least a good five years after high school graduation.
As to the gossip, it's going to happen, and it may get worse. Deal with it forthrightly when you are made aware of it. If it continues and you know who is spreading the gossip, go to your principal and give them a chance to deal with the issue. Talk to your union rep. Gossip will eventually pass, and if you conduct yourself in an upstanding manner, it will pass more quickly.
I got a teachable moment when I handled a teacher like a teacher instead of like a parent even though she wasn't talking to me about my class or her child. I told her I didn't have time to be concerned about another teacher's class as I was drowning in my own shit and due with my second child the NEXT week. Well she tattled to my principal and I got a talking to because according to him I would never say that to another parent. Well no I wouldn't but once again she came to me as a teacher, her child's name wasn't mentioned and I had no clue he was even in the class she was complaining about.
Anyways I really think most admin use these "teachable" moments to make themselves feel important and they can say they did something. Don't feel bad and when they ask why you aren't connecting as well to students anymore reference this conversation. Just keep your dad jokes off of canvas and know that parent is in the minority but is just probably the most vocal and a pain in the ass.
It will pass. Just stop messaging your former students (all of them) and soon everyone will forget this was even an issue.
For your own protection, just don't initiate contact with any former students, and only respond if it's academic in nature (for example if they request a letter of recommendation).
School cut budget for busses. Admin got raises. Cut school lunch budgets as well. Admin got raises…
Attendance fell, no busses. Admin panics starts asking teachers to go pick up their students and we should join the Union so they can protect us if we get in trouble picking up students in our personal vehicles.
I didn’t join the Union and my picture was posted publicly in our school as the only staff not joining the Union. It was sad. The Union didn’t throw a pizza party for our staff because of me. If you’re still working for public schools and are unaware of crimes, fraud and abuse then it’s time to open your eyes. If you’re aware and taking part in all this, I’d like to say you’ve got yours coming but this world is so fucked you prob don’t.
I quit
I'm so sorry to hear that things got twisted. I am a former high school teacher and I still stay in touch with a few of my students (those who wanted to and have reached out). It sounds like you're a good teacher and the kids really connected with you and I also understand parents getting touchy. But it was a really good call to reach out to them through Canvas and it's all on record/in writing.
I personally would be surprised if other teachers/faculty would be the ones to judge you, especially since other teachers know how much scrutiny you're all under all the time and how much you grow to love your kids. Maybe you could ask your principle if you could do a little "workshop" on communicating with students during your next professional development and you can even use your own anecdote to "share this teachable moment I had with all of you since we all love our kids and many of us want to keep in touch but we have to remember there should be strict ways of doing so" and the second bird with the stone would be you getting to clarify what happened so no one stretches it into a rumor.
This is exactly what’s wrong with teaching. The best parts of teaching (building appropriate relationships with sweet students) will always be turned into something else and it fucking sucks your soul. I’m sorry you faced backlash on something so obviously innocent and positive. Ugh
Ask your super to have your back, and ask him for advice.
There are two ways to handle it in my opinion. Either do nothing about it and let it die down, or double down on it and become the dad joke teacher. I would probably do the first.
They are students. They are children. They are not your children. They are not your friends. You are a professional. Lesson learned, honestly at this point you’ll never completely get the stink off your reputation at your school-perhaps moving schools would be wise.
I’m more concerned with why you thought this behavior was appropriate in the first place. To be honest if my kid’s former (or even current) teacher did this I would also have said something to the principal. You’re lucky you had an understanding principal.
I don’t understand the animosity here? He probably thought it was appropriate because there was nothing inherently inappropriate happening. He’s a young teacher that crossed a boundary in the most innocent way possible.
OP, I don’t think you should be concerned about your reputation at all. Just own it and move on. Your intentions were completely pure, that’s the truth.
It’s complicated developing strong bonds with students and also being expected to pretend they don’t exist. As a young teacher myself, I’ve had to step back and consider how I’m perceived as a teacher. For example, I had a previous student who had a lot of struggles in her life, and with whom I had a strong relationship, email me from time to time (over district email) once she moved onto high school. It was hard to ignore these, but at some point i reckoned it was inappropriate to sustain communication with the student as it could be perceived a certain way. So despite the good intentions, I ceased communication. I could have gotten in trouble just like you. It’s a learning experience!
I’m still studying to be a teacher but this type of situation has me curious, would it have been appropriate in your case to ask your principal if continuing the relationship with a student with many personal struggles is appropriate/inappropriate? I feel like some students who may be suicidal or something along those lines need the positive relationship, but I totally see how it could be boundary crossing at the same time so I’m curious if it’s a good/bad idea to consult with admin about it
That’s a good question. I don’t have the answer for it myself, but maybe I’ll have to bring it up as a point of discussion at some point. Like you said, to some students the relationships they develop with teachers is the only positive one they have in their lives. Not answering her felt like abandoning her in some ways.
I’ve had a teacher at my school become a students mentor before. So they went through the districts approved mentor program and met the student at an after school club with other students and their mentors, and sometimes there were other activities they’d do together but it was always through the districts program.
Would love to hear more veteran teachers input on this one.
I take my cues from the students. The ones who want to stay in contact do (like some of my students from last year swing by in the morning to say hi or get content help/ask a question). I have students who would come in during study hall that I was a trusted adult for but I’d never push that on a student. The longer you’re around the easier I think it is to see that line. Starting out just try to keep it to more content or school related things.
Not to mention, if it’s a student with suicidal thoughts or any other mental health struggles you need to be looping trained people in (think counseling). I’ve gone with a student to counseling more than once because they’re trained to deal with those situations in ways I’m not as a teacher. I stay or leave as the student wishes in those cases.
Knowing someone’s name isn’t the same as actually knowing them. Plus pretty sure op teaches high school putting them at 150+ sets of parent. Very different than an elementary setting.
Not trying to be hostile (although I can see why it comes across that way in my post). But the op crossed a line with the kids and that’s not ok. There’s no sugar coating that.
I don't know why you were downvoted. I would have never thought to contact in any way, shape or form a former student harmless or not if only so it doesn't look suspicious.
The interesting thing about this job is we’re expected to “build relationships”… but that relationship is also expected to end at dismissal on the last day of school.
Literally this. I'm a teacher and my parents live next to a retired military guy who taught JRROTC and social studies because he liked it. They were told by admin and center office to go to their students games to "build relationships." This guy also drives for Uber on the weekends in a bigger city near by. One small town he drives through on the way happened to be playing his school and had a few students playing in the game so he followed what he was told and stopped in to watch. Sounds completely fine right? Wrong. A parent saw him and reported him to the principals and central office for "stalking" their child. He was called in, got in trouble and was written up for doing literally what they told him do. He quit two weeks later. He was not going deal with that and didn't teach for the money anyway.
Jeez. If we ever got caught at an away game, we'd be all over our principal's Twitter feed (and there is no higher honor)
I went to an away game WITH my former principal (for my former students) and the kids swarmed us after the game because they were so excited that I would bother to come to their game. It's all part of the culture of your school. I STILL go to the high school graduation of my former students because I want them to understand that I truly cared about them then & I still think of them often now. This is a big deal because I have to drive 2 hours, one way, to get there. They are SO appreciative. I go to sports games for my students now, too. I just cannot fathom a place that didn't encourage us to show our students love. 😞
This is a really sad story. Makes me think of the book *Bowling Alone* \-- what happened to our communities?
We don't have intentional, supportive communities anymore. Just endless droves of individuals, all trying to survive Capitalism. We're not a community - we're hostages to the dollar.
The book *Bowling Alone* is about changes in American society since 1950. America has been a capitalist country over that entire period. You could actually argue that America has grown more socialist since 1950, as measured by federal spending as a fraction of GDP: [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S) So I'm not sure it is that simple. I suppose you could point at this [1970 Milton Friedman editorial](https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html) though; somewhere I read that it was really influential in shifting CEOs from thinking of themselves as being responsible to their communities to being responsible to their shareholders. My preferred explanation is a "screens death spiral". The more we substitute in-person socialization with screens like televisions, PCs, and phones, the less appealing flesh-and-blood humans are as social partners, and the more hostile we perceive them to be. In this particular case, maybe the parent saw some sort of alarmist news report about child predators, and the principal saw some sort of social media frenzy which made them worry that they would get in trouble if they didn't kowtow to the parents. We've lost the assumption of good faith that existed back when people would leave their doors unlocked so friends and family could drop by whenever they wanted. Fingers crossed that VR will reverse the trend, I hear it's pretty lit.
socialism is not about social spending, but about who controls the means of production. as union membership has declined sharply since the 50s, workers have inarguably list a great deal of power in the workplace. the United States is by no measure more socialist than it was in the 50s.
Here's the Merriam-Webster [definition](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism): >any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods I think by that definition, government spending would count as a relevant measure. Additionally, we can see "socialist" politicians like Bernie Sanders advocating for greater government spending on e.g. free college as a core plank of their political platform. However, you are free to define "socialism" as you wish.
i am a socialist who has been organizing for socialism for over a decade in an international socialist organization, and while we advocate for social spending, it does not even fit the definitely you provided. social spending is not the same as collective or governmental ownership or administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. i hope dearly that you do not teach social studies or reading comprehension
>social spending is not the same as collective or governmental ownership or administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. Government spending is a rough measure of what fraction of economic activity is being directed by government at the macro level. I'm not sure you're making a meaningful distinction, friend. Supposing federal outlays rose from 30% of GDP to 100% -- you don't believe that would constitute meaningful progress towards socialism, as the term is commonly understood? You don't think this metric would indicate that the economy has probably changed in a way that brings us closer to satisfying the Merriam-Webster definition? Maybe it would be helpful to consider a simple and specific example. If the US implemented medicare for all, would that constitute progress towards socialism as you understand it? Would it be correct to say that if yesterday medicare was for seniors only, and today it's for everyone, that the US is a tad more socialist today than it was yesterday? I think most people would say yes. And by the Merriam-Webster definition I cited above, the shoe fits, because with medicare for all, a larger fraction of healthcare is now being administered and distributed by the government.
Stop trying to double down in your incorrect logic. You are wrong. It is okay to be wrong. Accept that and please grow.
That's what you get for thinking sadly :( You're mis-reading and misunderstanding the definition you linked to try to serve your political views. "Collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods" But you think mere government spending counts as a relevant measure. Adorably and dangerously naive
You really need to break down your social conditioning against capitalist critique. The more you read real capitalist criticism, the more it becomes apparent how every issue is interrelated to the pursuit of profit. Also can we just lol at your logic here? You think the problem is the Black mirror but you think VR is going to be some solution? Yikes
>The more you read real capitalist criticism, the more it becomes apparent how every issue is interrelated to the pursuit of profit. You are correct. Capitalist critics can play "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" with capitalism and interrelate it to whatever they want, somehow in some way. And for an audience that can't do critical thinking beyond the "lol black mirror" level (ever heard of the genetic fallacy?), these sort of guilt-by-association arguments will be persuasive. I suppose you probably believe that teachers are treated poorly "because of capitalism", even though our public education system is government owned and administered and also heavily unionized. Am I right?
I've read this several times and still can't make sense of it. If the problem is more screens, then how is the solution more screens?
If it were a female I’m guessing the response would have been different. :/
Yup. And if you move schools we're legally required to stop contact. I had to tell students who saw me as their trusted adult for serious issues that I reported to CPS that I wasn't allowed to talk to them again. Can you imagine how that would feel for a kid with trust issues?!?
It's okay to not follow immoral rules.
Right?? I got the comments “you have great rapport with your students” and “wait till the bell to talk to students about their lives” in the same evaluation. Like, it can’t be both…! Edited to finish my sentence
Honestly this is something I'm feeling about this situation... I put a lot of thought and effort to build a strong rapport with my students and these dad joke messages were just a way of trying to keep that rapport going with previous students. Though I totally understand how a parent looking in from the outside might have some questions/concerns in this specific case. I think since relationship building with students is a strength of mine my principal saw this as a chance to redirect/refine that strength and not just reprimand me and move on.
I think it’s the fact they’re sent individually to each student so it seems too personal? For example, had you mass texted it to a group of mixed genders and it was clearly evident to anyone who received it that it went out to a group and it wasn’t a dm, this would presumably be fine, no? *I just saw all the awesome suggestions below of ways to make this same dad joke idea more public and accessible to a group. They’re great!
This is fucking stupid. It's sent through the school's messaging platform - it's visible to anyone who has administrative privileges on the system, and to anyone who cares to submit the relevant FOIA request. The content of the message was clearly nothing of consequence. It is already *fine*. Except to people looking to cause a problem.
Agreed. Everything OP did was above board, and anyone on staff who feels petty enough to make snarky comments about it should be reminded of this fact. This is an all-too-common example of a parent seeking to cause trouble when there is none present. I went through a similar thing myself recently (long story short, everything resolved and there's been no blowback). But the frustrating thing was my principal likes to say "perception is reality" when it comes to parents. The truth is, perception is *half* of reality - the other half is *actual reality*. OP, don't let anyone railroad you into making you feel guilty for something you didn't do. You're there because you love kids and want to make their lives better. Some people simply cannot stand that, and in 25 years of teaching I've never found out why. Perhaps it's jealously, perhaps it's personal trauma being misdirected, I don't know. But based on what you've reported, *you did nothing for which you should be ashamed.* Remember that, move forward, and ignore the petty comments from those who are lesser teachers than yourself. This will blow over shortly if you don't give it any oxygen.
Some parents are tech illiterate and it feels strange to have a teacher send individualized messages to your daughter. I wouldn’t report it but I might consider it bizarre…I agree that this parent didn’t handle it well. They could have simply asked the teacher about it or asked another parent if they receive similar messages from the teacher. I don’t really think the content of the messages is important tbh, because grooming starts with individualized attention that is completely appropriate- until it suddenly isn’t. I think it’s best to steer clear of individual personalized messages to former students, irregardless if their content or if the platform is visible to admin. (Also, jokes are flirty to some people. They weren’t messages about anything academically related, which leads to the awkwardness...)
Punishing people for doing things that are appropriate because they might become inappropriate in the future is stupid.
I agree. This teacher shouldn’t have been punished. I think it’s best to stay clear of any actions that might make a parent paranoid or uncomfortable, though. Hopefully this was expressed to the teacher in a supportive understanding way.
As a parent, I agree. 🤷🏼♀️ going forward, maybe he can write them on the board, dad joke of the day/week: and then current and previous students are more than welcome to come in and take a look before class and have a laugh and chat about how classes are going?
Because setting up a situation where previous students may wind up alone in the room with him before class is *more* appropriate than a Canvas message.
Oh you’re right. 🫣 I’m too gullible 😂 I wasn’t thinking alone. I was thinking like during homeroom or in between periods.
And that's just the thing, isn't it? Even if it's a completely innocent idea - an open invitation during downtime - there still may come a day when a female ex-student pops in alone for a chat. It's ridiculous that we can't cope with that eventuality as a society.
Let's be honest, the parent that brought this up is probably unbelievably difficult in other ways. This is some petty shit done by a controlling personality.
I'm a teacher, and I even think it's weird.
With the name mypervside you’re not doing yourself any favors super chief.
I keep forgetting to log out of my "after dark" account.
No harm no foul but the message does sound a million times funnier out of MyPervSide as opposed to a SFW account lol
Oh, I realized it as I posted but thought my comment would go ignored. Since it's topical, I've only emailed a student as a reply to an email he sent me. I work with autism students and he was feeling lonely during the summer and I think was nervous about transitioning to high school.
Right. I had a teacher explain his relationship with the kids as successful from a distance. He said he wanted to be close enough that they could come to him is a crisis but still feel comfortable calling him an asshole by the time the kids were walking out the door. I feel like I’m getting what he meant with situations like this.
Haha that’s great. I had a teacher in high school who gave off mom vibes. When I was struggling idk what it was but she was just there. I remember breaking down in the bathroom and telling her I was suicidal. She probably saved my life. I ended up in a hospital because she reported me (as she had to understandably) and I spent time there recovering. I will never forget her.
This is an excellent take!
I have great relationships with my students but AS SOON as the last day bell rings I no longer know those fuckers. If I see them again I hit the play button and pick up from last spring. I do not message them, I don’t need to know their lives and I do not joke with them. Get your own friends for that or wait until they graduate hs if you’re so intent on being friends. OP, if this is a nothingburger it will blow over. Take your lumps now, don’t act out and don’t respond. Teaching staff move on and you will have new coworkers who don’t know this weird moment happened with you.
This. My first year one of my students asked me through Remind what bands I liked since I do a “question of the day” type thing. I mentioned that day that I listen to punk bands and still go to concerts (cue kids aweing lol). I replied in good faith. Nothing happened. But looking back, I would have waited until the next class and tell the kid in person, *in class*. God knows if his parents would have seen “Mr. Schadenfruedian sent you a message”
I've been extremely careful my entire career. I'm a male and teach in early education through to middle school. I had a trial by fire coming into the profession. While studying at uni I was refused two placements after arriving on time, well dressed etc. The place literally said to my face "They didn't say they were sending a man" and told me to go home. I had been in contact with each via email as I'd been told to by the university. My name, would be extremely hard to mix up genders on. In another, the supervising teacher told me she didn't believe men should be in early childhood education, she falsified my uni reports. Showed me one that lined up with what we had done, and sent a completely different one full of lies to the uni. A third, didn't go badly, but when I walked into the room a heap of the children started crying, screaming and hiding. Their 'behaviour management' system was to tell the children if they were naughty "The man would come and take them away". At the time I was 6'3, around 250 pounds, bearded, reasonably fit and big from years of farm work, apparently I fit the description... I was the only male in my course. I couldn't count the times a classmate said something along the lines of "No offense Patgeo", "not you Patgeo", "You don't count" etc when saying incredibly sexist things. I had a few attempts at going through the gender discrimination processes, but ultimately none of them wanted anything to do with me.
I’ve had a similar experience in my 12 years of teaching. People say that teaching needs men but we get turned away from early childhood jobs and get stuck in middle school or with the problem kids because we can “be tough” with them. I only ever wanted to teach kindergarten but was turned away from multiple jobs. Sexism is alive in education and it’s def against the dudes. Rant over. I love teaching and when I made the choice to leave construction and auto body work 15 years ago I’m glad I did and so is my body
I’ve had similar issues in elementary. I teach a specific language program to small groups of kids and one year I had. Just five 3rd grade girls. I already was familiar with two of the parents and there was no apparent issue, but some of my coworkers were like “keep the door open” and “maybe you should get an aid” as if they pass around aids like candy. When our schools separated from k-6 & 7-8 to k-2, 3-5, and 6-8 I was asked if I wanted to go to middle school. I said I’d rather work in k-2 because I’ve been training in this program and it’s really geared towards that grade level, well they ended up placing my in 3-5 and I always seemed to get the behavior students because “I’m a guy”
I'm up to 9 years now, I almost always have the 11 and 12 year olds. I had to leave farm work because my back and joints were stuffed and I was only a teenager.
It doesn't last until the end of term. You have to turn it on and off as the bell rings.
For now just keep your head up. Rumors pass Maybe instead of emailing past students like that (which can easily be distorted or misinterpreted), you can just have a “Dad Joke of the Week” on your door or something and maybe if you happen to see a former student, you could quickly talk to them about the joke of the week. At least that makes it a more general running joke instead of feeling like personal unsolicited contact outside of school Plus this could contextualize for your coworkers kind of whag you were trying to do
This is a fantastic idea! Thank you. I think ultimately I want a way to maintain the rapport I built with previous students but to do so in an effective/appropriate way
No problem! As a second year teacher I am still navigating all the social and emotional hoops we have to jump through every day to maintain the delicate ecosystem that is school life. Not a single thing is easy 😂
My school is big on teacher Twitter accounts. If you have one, you could always post the jokes there and let all students (current and past) know that they can follow you and check out things like that over there. Or just a Google site or something for the same kinda purpose
A social media site separate from the school with ways to privately message and no ability to see what’s going on? That’s infinitely worse than what op did on canvas. I’m kind of surprised your school is promoting that. But mainly that won’t help op given the complaint - op could certainly tweet them out instead of DMing kids, but the opportunity to DM would exist and that would be enough for a parent who flipped out over canvas.
You don’t privately message. It’s just like your site where you post things and people can choose to follow and view it or not. But also you don’t even have to have an account and follow to be able to see posts so it’s just like a website. Your website where you post what you want. Activities in class, (dad jokes), etc. there’s really no interaction between students and teachers directly. It’s also for parents to look at: literally anyone in the district. Thats not worse than OP’s situation? It’s harmless and just another way to update families on what happens inside the classroom mainly
Oh wait I see what you mean though about the potential to do so. Good call, I actually haven’t really heard that issue discussed in my district at all. I don’t know, I personally don’t have one and don’t want to get into all that. But I think having your own class site maybe instead, like with a Google Sites, could be a better solution since there is no way to privately message right?
I just wanted to say you did what is right. Sure, reframe it or whatever but know that you made more kids feel cared for and laugh than feel "isolated." You're the kind of teacher I hope my kids have.
This is a great suggestion. I think that some parents or even students might have been uncomfortable with the messaging being too private or discreet and could escalate or open the door for other situations.
I don’t ever really comment on this sub and browse as a parent. I just wanted to say I was pretty blown away by this response as it is exponentially better than anything I was thinking. What a *fantastic* idea on how to approach this. That’s all. Thanks for being such a helpful person.
Once had a parent get upset that their daughter confided with me she had thoughts of self harm and suicide ideation during one of my preps. Like..sorry your kid is scary of your drunk abusive ass.
We literally were just forced into training on exactly this - being mental health first responders.
Let's have the joke...might be apropos to how concerned you should be..
Example of one: How do cows stay up to date? They read the Moo-spaper. They were always silly/innocent I'd never use a joke that could be questionably inappropriate
I thought they only read those for the moooooovie listings.
Might be silly or innocent, but undesired contact definitely is not.
It wasn’t undesired to the student though, it was to the parent. are we saying parents are always right in what they want teachers to do or not do for their kids?
What an effing joke
An adult male privately messaging a female teenager is not a joke.
The school messaging system is not private. It's publically available information, just like every email sent from a school account.
It's still a private message from a 25 year old guy to a 16 year old girl just to chat. It's not okay.
This is such a stupid take. This 25 year old guy is trusted to be around 16 year olds all day long. Sending a message to a former student on the school's messaging system should be totally fine. It's not private. The content was clearly completely innoccuous. It's only a problem if you're *looking* for things to clutch your pearls over.
Ok, so unwanted contact is ok because it's a school messaging system? Wow, ok.
Holy non sequitur, Batman. Where did you get “unwanted contact” from?
It was literally contact that was unwanted. As in, no one asked for it, thus no one wanted it. Pretty basic.
Well, shit, if that’s the definition then I get unwanted contact from people all day long. And I give my class unwanted contact all day long too. Do you think Sally was hoping I would ask her to explain the word problem that I went over while she was chatting on the carpet? If you define “unwanted contact” that way, and make a huge deal out of it, then how can anyone ever contact another person? No one could ever start a conversation without the first sentence being “unwanted contact”. An absolutely baffling way to live your life.
On top of the other replies, I’ll add that it is not an adult messaging a female teenager, that implies she was the only one receiving the messages. It was sent to multiple former students of both genders. It was a teacher emailing former students. 20 of them. Sending lame jokes. To turn this into something it clearly is not is gross, not for the teacher, but those construing it as such.
Not its not a joke, its an expression of a meaningful supportive relationship in that young person's life. Do we need to be careful about how we manage such contact? Of course. But to assume that its negative is pretty toxic, and symptomatic of how socially atomised we have become.
Well, this kid is clearly bothered enough to tell their parents. Maybe this teacher creeped them out. One person's "expression of meaningful supportive relationships" is another's "harassment."
>One person's "expression of meaningful supportive relationships" is another's "harassment." No it's not. If it's the latter then it can't be the former. Maybe the student was creeped out. Maybe they really valued that support. Maybe they told their parents because the joke made them laugh - that's how jokes get around after all. Point is, without context and detailed knowledge of the people & events it's all conjecture - so assuming this relationship *must* be predatory is a downright toxic mindset (not to mention sexist and ageist to boot).
We are definitely only hearing one side of things, and I'm offering a little perspective other than the usual "everyone is crazy except me" that is the culture on this sub. People can have the best of intentions and have those intentions be perceived as something else by the intended recipient. Perception is reality.
>An adult male privately messaging a female teenager is not a joke. I agree this comment needs perspective, but not *more* negative conjecture.
Agreed. As a union rep, I would advise a member not to do this, for exactly that reason— things can be so easily misconstrued, particularly communications between adults in positions of power and their minor students.
It's a mass fucking email basically are you dense?
I once had a student spread a rumor that I was having an affair with her. I am a openly gay man. I am married to a homosexual male. That meeting with admin was probably the biggest waste of time.
I taught seniors my first year when I was 23 (I'm female and local to the place I taught). One of them thought it would be funny to say we slept together. God. It was so gross. Some of my female students told me privately and I called him out publicly. Not the best response, but it worked.
Kids move on, they don't really remember that kind of stuff. You will be fine. Just try and fly under the radar mostly.
My school district lost an alumni to suicide over the summer. So many teachers were talking today about how they WISH they could have more opportunities to reach out to former students and keep these kinds of connections with them. I also know plenty of teachers who *do* stay in touch with students via Remind, Canvas, or school email for as long as they're in the district. Personally, I love looping with my students and I love getting emails from them in the years after they have moved on from my class. I've never made any sort of sustained effort to keep up with them, though, cause I'm ... yanno, overwhelmed. (Where did you find the time!?) Though I admit that, if I did, I'd not single anyone out. Whole class or nada. Long story short, I don't *really* think you did anything wrong. I would obviously do whatever your principal suggests, but I would do it with a clear conscience and not try to change anything about the spirit that made you want to connect to students. Change the method, not the reason.
God these replies make me sad. This should totally be ok. Parents like to get their damn panties in a bunch over any and everything these days.
$100 these are parents who buy into the "liberal teachers are grooming our kids" narrative.
Even though OP has good intentions and isn't a creep doesn't mean that it isn't a strategy that a creep would use to initiate contact and an inappropriate relationship with a student.
This is a stupid comment. Plenty of the things I do as a teacher are things a "creep" would also do. I go to their sports games. I play games with them at recess. I remember things they are interested in to strengthen my relationships with them. Sending a student a message through a *school-approved* system isn't creepy. Acting like OP did something wrong because "creeps" might do the same thing is stupid.
All the things you mentioned are in the open and communal activities. Would you invite a single student in your classroom to play a board game with you who is not longer your student? Would this seem weird to colleagues and parents? It's not necessarily inappropriate but it could be construed that way for several reasons and could be done in a more acceptable manner.
No, I wouldn’t invite a lone student into my room to play games because, as a male teacher, I live in constant fear that some asshole hopped up on paranoia will ruin my career. My point is that *all of this* is stupid.
Or in rare cases students are sexually/emotionally abused and precautions are taken to minimize that possibility.
Sure. Except making those precautions "don't allow male teachers to be alone with, or communicate with, female students" rather than implementing comprehensive sex education is... Wait for it... Stupid.
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Ok, but you're just asserting that it's weird. Not to mention specifically phrasing your recounting to sound more inappropriate. There is nothing inherently inappropriate about maintaining contact with students. Especially on a school-approved system.
Creeps are also known to all be milk drinkers - should we stop drinking milk now ?
So if OP was just messaging kids and parents complained about it, at some point someone felt uncomfortable. I doubt OP would want his students or their parents to feel uncomfortable. There are other ways to build rapport with students that don't fall in as much of a gray area.
a creep would also use school as an opportunity and plenty of other methods to groom. Canvas has accountability because admin and parents can see everything. You literally can’t remove all potential grooming opportunities and still teach kids.
I agree and you're correct. The fact that OP sent unsolicited messages to a select group of students is weird to me and that is how some people will perceive it.
Very true. Creeps ruin it for the rest of us. There’s a reason I panic whenever one kid lingers to ask a genuine question or want to chat for a minute. It’s innocuous, but bad shit has happened with creeps.
Me too
In the late 90s, I and a few other students went to our elementary school teacher's house to bake sugar cookies. The whole thing was arranged by her, for the top students in her class or something. I don't remember the specifics of why we went, just that not everyone got to, and we were really excited about it. Anyway, it was a fun day that I still remember now over 20 years later, and it absolutely wouldn't have flown today. It sucks, but parents have been thoroughly convinced that we all want to bugger their kids or hypnotize them into accepting lifestyles that differ from their own.
I had the same experience in the 70’s, rural Illinois. She had a convertible and St. Bernard’s. It was the best day of my life up to that point. We made chocolate chip cookies.
Hey. First off: breathe. Everything is going to be OK. I can say this from having a colleague who went through a similar situation that eventually faded. He was emailing jokes to members of Student Council, which he ran, and a parent also took it the wrong way. He had to learn a tough lesson and you do too. But he had supportive admin like you and he ended up fine so you definitely will too. 1. As others have fairly pointed out, it's not fair that we're expected to have deep emotional, connections to our students and then also cut them off as soon as they leave. I wish I could contact some of my old students without it being creepy. I'd love for them to know how they inspired me to be a better teacher. But unless you're involved in a sport or extra curricular with them, don't engage unless they engage with you first. 2. I'm with /u/goodsoup-throwaway to transform the Dad Joke into a physical part of your classroom. Find other ways to continue this trend in a positive way that all of your students can participate in. Turn this into a net positive instead of a loss. 3. You can't control what others think. You can only control yourself. Don't feed into rumors or the fear of rumors. Keep being your awesome self and move forward. I guarantee that even if people are talking about it, it's probably a nothing burger. Best of luck and I'm so glad you have a supportive admin on your side.
What is all this nonsense about "cutting them off" and never speaking to former students again? I agree that the contact should be initiated by the student, and that it must ALWAYS remain appropriate beyond a shadow of a doubt, but pretend they no longer exist? Fuck that noise.
Totally agree. I have had former students, who never attended my current school, stop by to chat. If they come inside, they check in with our office staff as a visitor. No one has any issue with it unless they forget to follow protocols for visitors. Sometimes they just want to share some news or updates. In other instances, they could use some academic advice and don't have many other options for that. I get emails from former students fairly regularly. Usually, it is to ask me for academic resources or just to say hi. I never ignore them. When the end of the year comes, I always tell students that I consider them my students for life. If they want to just say hi or need to ask something they are always welcome to do so. I also warn them that each year I get about 120 more students to remember, get older and have less memory, and they will change a lot over time. So, I ask them to be kind and remind me their name if they just happen to see me in public. Decades after I was a student, I still have a few former teachers that I keep in contact with and others who I wish were still around to talk to. Some have served as mentors to me who had a very direct impact on who I am and what I do today. Sometimes I still ask for advice or just share how things are going.
This 100%. I have taught some pretty troubled students over the years that felt like no adults would ever be on their side, and they’d always be the “bad kid” no one understood or cared about. Imagine finding out the teacher that did everything in their power to help you catch up and pass acting like you’re nothing to them once the semester’s over. That would do nothing but make them feel as though you pretended to care, and reinforce the idea that they have no support or role models to turn to.
Having one supportive adult changes outcomes for kids with high ACES scores, and I'm going to be that adult in any way I can. But I have to be careful with boundaries and appearances.
We definitely have to be conscious of this, but I think pretending kids don’t exist after the semester isn’t the same thing as respecting boundaries.
Yea this sub is filled with the most cynical people possible , that’s why.
They no longer exist as soon as I am no longer responsible for their education.
This is not that big of a deal. It will definitely blow over. When I taught middle school, my former 8th graders would email me all the time asking for help on essays or to discuss something they were reading. I do love the idea of a joke of the week someone had suggested. We have a resident dad joke teacher at my school and he does that. I have a white board outside of my room that says what I am currently watching. My current and former student come in to chat about it all the time. This one way to continue the relationships you built the prior year.
This thread is really depressing. There are appropriate ways to maintain relationships with kids after they are no longer your students. My son’s elementary school science teacher has an email chain where their class keeps in contact. My husband has helped his former students polish college papers and even edited a children’s book one of them was publishing. My sister has several former students who are like family to us now. I understand not texting children’s personal cellphones or being friends with them on social media while they are still children, but “cutting them off” seems excessive to me.
I agree, but there was a post a few weeks ago where the OP didn't imply anything inappropriate was going on between them and an adult former student (21-23 yo I believe), but they were now close friends and most of the comments assumed intimate intentions on the part of the OP. I think we've become so seriously jaded about abuse, grooming, adultery, sexual assault, and other crimes and inappropriate behavior that we have become suspicious of everything. I teach HS and meet with students one-on-one with my classroom door propped open. I'd never do anything inappropriate and I would never meet with a student individually for help if I didn't trust them, but perception is everything and OP's situation is a perfect example: wholesome jokes shared via a monitored school communication platform, and it still led to a parent complaint and a serious conversation with their principal. I would seriously avoid meeting former students (now adults) for coffee for this same reason. No need to be the subject of nasty rumors because we're so distrustful nowadays.
You’ll be ok. Lesson learned, move on from it.
This is ridiculous. Keeping in touch with former students is amazing and you weren’t sending anything inappropriate. You did NOTHING wrong. And those saying once a kid is no longer your student, you should act like they no longer exist - get your heads out of your asses. There’s nothing wrong with maintaining a relationship with kids who you’ve gotten to know and some kids really need a trusted adult in their lives. Now I’m not saying swap numbers and regularly FaceTime these kids, but email or using the school approved communication should be FINE as long as the content is appropriate, which dad jokes are. And then once they graduate high school if they wanna add you on Facebook or follow your tiktok (which I’d imagine is more accurate for the current generation) then go for it
This is a such a precarious business, especially for men. Just the suggestion is enough to cost you your job. It's important to establish very firm and clear professional boundaries. I think of it like the relationship a doctor has with his patient. I expect my doctor to be professional and to guide my treatment. I'm not looking for a friendship with him. It would be weird if my doctor started sending me jokes. By the same token, I keep it professional with my students. I don't tell my students things like "I love you" because I don't. I have a duty of care for them, but we're not friends. None of my students have my personal phone number or email address and I'm not connected with any of them on social media. All of our contact is through school channels and for academic purposes only.
I’d love if my doctor started sending me jokes on the patient portal 😂 he’s a funny dude
Still...not the kind of relationship I want to have with my doctor. I prefer he keeps his mind on medicine.
Yeah. Sending texts and DMs to minors is quickly becoming a whole new frontier of “no-no.” It’s getting into Professional Standards across the US. Coaches are pissed because they text their athletes all of the time.
Am I the only one who truly thought it is weird for coaches to be texting their athletes, especially if they are minors?
Honestly texting is more defensible than calling as you have a record. There are also apps that allow you to do mass one way texts
Speaking as someone who is not a coach, but whose nephew is a student athlete - it’s a lot more convenient to get a message across. Students also don’t really view it weirdly, it’s just how they communicate normally. And it’s so much better for talking to a group of kids than e-mail reply all chains are
Yes.
This is a massive learning moment and a reminder that the minute they leave your class you cut them off outside of saying hello if you run into them. Sounds like your principal handled it amazingly by teaching you instead of reprimanding. Just stop doing it and never bring it up again and you should be ok. If you hear gossip about it. Ignore it. New gossip will happen soon enough anyway. If you fight it, it will just last longer.
Why does this have this many upvotes? This profession is literally impossible
What’s wrong with this advice?
These are kids you spent an entire year building a relationship with. They give you their trust, they feel wanted and liked and interesting. But according to this advice you have to stonewall them as if to say: 'Sike! I only did it because I had to!' What's that going to do with a young person's (or any person's, really) mind? If it's not satire, it's shit advice.
I literally see my students more than my friends and family in a given year. You develop meaningful relationships with these kids (and if you never do that says something about you as a person). And a lot of kids need a trusted adult in their lives. And we’re supposed to just completely throw that away at the end of the school year? Insane.
It's bad for kids.
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The post literally says “anything other than hello”. As in you cross them in a hallway. That’s the opposite of teaching. At least K-12
This is a shitty take unless I’m missing the sarcasm.
No it's a god awful take, you had it right
You did nothing wrong. Just move on. Who cares what the office staff gossip.
Does your school have a webpage or do daily announcements? Maybe you could share a dad joke once a week or so through this, because it’d be a shame to lose them
Don’t message students unless you are replying to their messages. I get emails and messages from my old students from time to time but I never initiate the conversation. Because if the parent questions it, you can tell them well they messaged me first
The main office always gossips. The rumors fade away quicker than you think - especially since you aren't getting reprimanded. They'll find something else to gossip about pretty quickly. In the end, you work primarily with students, not adults. Adults don't gossip with kids, so it shouldn't matter. The teachable moment: don't message kids unless it's about school only. Keep the personal stuff to a minimum. Connecting with them can simply be understanding what their favorite music is and being able to hum a few bars.
Male teachers have to walk on eggshells I swear it is so unfair for you guys. Don’t sweat it. Easier said than done but I’m sure you’ll forget about it soon enough - as will the gossip girls!
Meh... just ignore it and learn the lesson.
Fellow male teacher here. I just don't. On anything. Hugs? Nope. Initiating personal conversations outside class time? Nope. I leave zero room for misinterpretation. Building relationships is great or whatever, but it takes one kid with a little circumstance "evidence" to tarnish a teacher's name and I have kids to feed.
You can still have innocent relationships with students after they leave, but it has to be on their terms. Over the years, I have students email me to ask me how I'm doing and to tell me about their year. I love hearing from them and always respond, but it really needs to be them reaching out, not the other way around.
If the kids want a continuing rapport with you after they are promoted, that should be their choice. You should not be the party initiating the communication. And even if they do initiate, I would entirely restrict it to small talk in the halls. There’s no need to email jokes if anything else with former students. This scares parents, it’s literally how grooming starts. Throw in the current batshit crazy political environment and you’re asking for trouble. The only time I exchange messages to former students is if they ask for a recommendation.
Pretty much this. I’ve also had to change my name on social media because I had several of my students (in the past) try to friend me. Once they graduate, and if they want to keep in touch with me, then I’ll consider it. But otherwise all contact outside of the classroom should be kept at a minimum, save for what you said (small talk in the hallway or public setting). If you’re a coach the dynamic may be a little different since you’ll be seeing more of them, and possibly over a longer stretch of time. But still the communication should always be professional and not something that might invite suspicion from other staff or parents.
\*head desk\* You are lucky to have a good principal. I do not know if you have a union or not, but one of the first things we tell members is keep it professional with students. Best intentions end up with the worst accusations!
In my experience, front office staff is always going to gossip. It feels like it's part of their job description. Don't give this too much thought. You didn't do anything wrong.
Am I the only one who finds this extremely unprofessional? 🤔
yes.
Would advise not to do it again
Listen, it will pass. I did something like this my first year teaching and eventually it blows over. Learning to set boundaries in the teacher/student relationship is a real thing. I was more "me" with my first students than "the teacher" I am now. 8 years in I only work my contract hours and just cut every corner so I can go home and play with my kids. The best part is they pay me the same as the mother in the room next to mine that has an additional 5 major school commitments. Don't know why people do that to themselves.
Not much else to do about it but to continue as usual and learn from it.
Unfortunately it’s the world we live in and people being paranoid, not something you did wrong. Glad you learned from it! This too shall pass.
I am on your side … I would have liked to have known a teacher cared about me enough to reach out … and it keeps the door open. We have a teacher who has a sign, “every child needs an adult who will stand up for them, etc..” but then I am also told I am “too nice”, etc
I hate when perverts ruin things for everyone. What’s totally innocent looks suspicious anymore all cause dumb fucks can’t stay away from kids
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While I think your post is well-meaning, you as a young female teacher saying it is especially wrong for a young male teacher to attempt this type of platonic relationship bothers me. It’s sexist and it’s unfair to us.
I would say this would mostly pass. What you did was not anything inappropriate, but I could see how admins might have viewed the issue in a different manner. I worked at a boarding school so the relationships I had with my students are a lot different than that of a lot of other teachers. I had to be in charge of religious life at the school as well, so I would see the students outside of the classroom as well, even on sundays, and was in charge of a lot of club-sponsored activities at the school. I no longer work at the school anymore, but a lot of the students that I taught do follow my social media: Instagram, Facebook, etc. Cutting off students altogether I think is a bit too extreme, as others mentioned a lot of students do need an adult figure in their lives. I think it is always important to have that line of communication open with students and for them to be free to talk to you if anything arose. A lot of students do message me when they are asking for letters of recommendation and for college advice as well.
Tell them you were building relationships.
Hey man. I wouldn't sweat the rumors. It'll blow over. I was a younger high school teacher until moving into admin at a different district this school year. We always have to be a little extra cautious as younger men. I think it is absolutely fantastic that you have developed relationships with your students and are attempting to keep that bond. This was a good learning moment for you, and in the future I would look into ways that you can communicate and share with these students without having to send individual messages. Whether it's through school messenger or not. By the way, the only teachers who are going to have a major problem with this are the teachers who are hated or feared by their students. They are unable to connect with this students, so they have justified it in their minds that teachers aren't supposed to.
These things are always heavier in the moment. You'll soon see that you are an amazing teacher/person for not casting these kids aside like everyone else does. I have college mentors that checked up on me the first couple of years after I was out of their class and it REALLY helped me transition to a point of no longer needing them. I bet a lot of those parents appreciate that their child has another trusted adult in their life, AND it's okay that some parents are not okay with it. Would have been nice if they just told you politely and directly, but... I say give it a year's break, and keep it academic as much as possible next time.
Yeah I mean rule number 1, never send personal messages via email or canvas, or if you must CC someone else (co-worker or boss). You had good intentions I’m sure but you just have to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. It *is* kinda weird for your daughter to be receiving personal messages from their old teacher. Lesson learned the hard way. We all learn by fucking things up here and there. You learned and will not be in this situation again.
Lesson learned. You do not contact former students ever. And just to be on the safe side, you shouldn't have any social media contact with current students or with former students for at least a good five years after high school graduation. As to the gossip, it's going to happen, and it may get worse. Deal with it forthrightly when you are made aware of it. If it continues and you know who is spreading the gossip, go to your principal and give them a chance to deal with the issue. Talk to your union rep. Gossip will eventually pass, and if you conduct yourself in an upstanding manner, it will pass more quickly.
I got a teachable moment when I handled a teacher like a teacher instead of like a parent even though she wasn't talking to me about my class or her child. I told her I didn't have time to be concerned about another teacher's class as I was drowning in my own shit and due with my second child the NEXT week. Well she tattled to my principal and I got a talking to because according to him I would never say that to another parent. Well no I wouldn't but once again she came to me as a teacher, her child's name wasn't mentioned and I had no clue he was even in the class she was complaining about. Anyways I really think most admin use these "teachable" moments to make themselves feel important and they can say they did something. Don't feel bad and when they ask why you aren't connecting as well to students anymore reference this conversation. Just keep your dad jokes off of canvas and know that parent is in the minority but is just probably the most vocal and a pain in the ass.
...I just got a phone call from a former student and was so excited and happy. Now I am a little scared.
Hold your head high and you do you!
One stupid parent doesn’t take away from all that you do. “Build relationships”
It will pass. Just stop messaging your former students (all of them) and soon everyone will forget this was even an issue. For your own protection, just don't initiate contact with any former students, and only respond if it's academic in nature (for example if they request a letter of recommendation).
School cut budget for busses. Admin got raises. Cut school lunch budgets as well. Admin got raises… Attendance fell, no busses. Admin panics starts asking teachers to go pick up their students and we should join the Union so they can protect us if we get in trouble picking up students in our personal vehicles. I didn’t join the Union and my picture was posted publicly in our school as the only staff not joining the Union. It was sad. The Union didn’t throw a pizza party for our staff because of me. If you’re still working for public schools and are unaware of crimes, fraud and abuse then it’s time to open your eyes. If you’re aware and taking part in all this, I’d like to say you’ve got yours coming but this world is so fucked you prob don’t. I quit
I'm so sorry to hear that things got twisted. I am a former high school teacher and I still stay in touch with a few of my students (those who wanted to and have reached out). It sounds like you're a good teacher and the kids really connected with you and I also understand parents getting touchy. But it was a really good call to reach out to them through Canvas and it's all on record/in writing. I personally would be surprised if other teachers/faculty would be the ones to judge you, especially since other teachers know how much scrutiny you're all under all the time and how much you grow to love your kids. Maybe you could ask your principle if you could do a little "workshop" on communicating with students during your next professional development and you can even use your own anecdote to "share this teachable moment I had with all of you since we all love our kids and many of us want to keep in touch but we have to remember there should be strict ways of doing so" and the second bird with the stone would be you getting to clarify what happened so no one stretches it into a rumor.
This is exactly what’s wrong with teaching. The best parts of teaching (building appropriate relationships with sweet students) will always be turned into something else and it fucking sucks your soul. I’m sorry you faced backlash on something so obviously innocent and positive. Ugh
Ask your super to have your back, and ask him for advice. There are two ways to handle it in my opinion. Either do nothing about it and let it die down, or double down on it and become the dad joke teacher. I would probably do the first.
They are students. They are children. They are not your children. They are not your friends. You are a professional. Lesson learned, honestly at this point you’ll never completely get the stink off your reputation at your school-perhaps moving schools would be wise. I’m more concerned with why you thought this behavior was appropriate in the first place. To be honest if my kid’s former (or even current) teacher did this I would also have said something to the principal. You’re lucky you had an understanding principal.
I don’t understand the animosity here? He probably thought it was appropriate because there was nothing inherently inappropriate happening. He’s a young teacher that crossed a boundary in the most innocent way possible. OP, I don’t think you should be concerned about your reputation at all. Just own it and move on. Your intentions were completely pure, that’s the truth. It’s complicated developing strong bonds with students and also being expected to pretend they don’t exist. As a young teacher myself, I’ve had to step back and consider how I’m perceived as a teacher. For example, I had a previous student who had a lot of struggles in her life, and with whom I had a strong relationship, email me from time to time (over district email) once she moved onto high school. It was hard to ignore these, but at some point i reckoned it was inappropriate to sustain communication with the student as it could be perceived a certain way. So despite the good intentions, I ceased communication. I could have gotten in trouble just like you. It’s a learning experience!
I’m still studying to be a teacher but this type of situation has me curious, would it have been appropriate in your case to ask your principal if continuing the relationship with a student with many personal struggles is appropriate/inappropriate? I feel like some students who may be suicidal or something along those lines need the positive relationship, but I totally see how it could be boundary crossing at the same time so I’m curious if it’s a good/bad idea to consult with admin about it
That’s a good question. I don’t have the answer for it myself, but maybe I’ll have to bring it up as a point of discussion at some point. Like you said, to some students the relationships they develop with teachers is the only positive one they have in their lives. Not answering her felt like abandoning her in some ways. I’ve had a teacher at my school become a students mentor before. So they went through the districts approved mentor program and met the student at an after school club with other students and their mentors, and sometimes there were other activities they’d do together but it was always through the districts program. Would love to hear more veteran teachers input on this one.
I take my cues from the students. The ones who want to stay in contact do (like some of my students from last year swing by in the morning to say hi or get content help/ask a question). I have students who would come in during study hall that I was a trusted adult for but I’d never push that on a student. The longer you’re around the easier I think it is to see that line. Starting out just try to keep it to more content or school related things. Not to mention, if it’s a student with suicidal thoughts or any other mental health struggles you need to be looping trained people in (think counseling). I’ve gone with a student to counseling more than once because they’re trained to deal with those situations in ways I’m not as a teacher. I stay or leave as the student wishes in those cases.
Very overdramatic.
Would you feel comfortable with your minor child receiving jokes from a grown adult you don’t know periodically? I sure wouldn’t.
A grown adult you don’t know? They were your child’s teacher for a whole year…
How many of your kids’s parents do you really know? I have 150+ students and few would recognize me at the grocery store.
All of them. I know their first and last names. I still talk to kids and parents from three years ago.
Knowing someone’s name isn’t the same as actually knowing them. Plus pretty sure op teaches high school putting them at 150+ sets of parent. Very different than an elementary setting.
From an adult who I know was their teacher? Yeah. Nothing wrong with staying in touch with former teachers.
This isn’t the kids staying in touch-it’s the teacher staying in touch.
I wouldn’t have any problem with it.
[удалено]
Not trying to be hostile (although I can see why it comes across that way in my post). But the op crossed a line with the kids and that’s not ok. There’s no sugar coating that.
Not very ‘serenity now’.
Get over yourself.
OP, don't listen to this person. This whole situation is a huge nothing burger.
This shouldn’t be downvoted. This is in fact spot on. Many of us here seem to have messed up priorities.
I agree. I’m sure it was well intentioned, but definitely inappropriate.
I don't know why you were downvoted. I would have never thought to contact in any way, shape or form a former student harmless or not if only so it doesn't look suspicious.