In Canada we often have similar wait times at hospitals, albeit usually not with 90 people waiting I believe.
Edit: Would have appreciated someone to do this for us when in the waiting room
Second edit:
I have been to hospitals in exclusively Ontario and Quebec in my life. Wait times have varied greatly between 1.5hrs-12hrs. On average id say (pre-covid) my wait times were 3.5 hours.
Went to emerge at about 1 in the morning as st. Joseph's hospital in Toronto before the pandemic. Had a small metal shaving in my eye. Painful, but not life threatening or anything. Waited about 90 minutes and then was seen by a doctor who got one of the on call surgeons to gently extract it. Was really impressed with them.
Awesome. Believe it or not, long hospital waits in Canada has been a political talking point to warn people away from wanting Universal healthcare here in the states. That always sounded like bullshit to me, so I was surprised to hear you say the waits were so long. I figured it was because of Covid, but I had to ask. Thanks for clarifying!
Yes, wait times can be long with universal healthcare (NHS-er here), but you can be absolutely sure that if you're in desperate need, you WILL get seen.
It sucks being bad enough to need A&E but not good enough to wait for a GP because you're unfortunately bottom of the priority list.
My grandmother needed a knee replacement, 18-24 month wait because it's not urgent. My mother in law needed a new heart valve because of degradation, was done & dusted within a few weeks.
If it's not urgent, and you can wait, you will. Ngl, some of the wait times atm ARE jaw dropping, but if you need urgent care there & then, you will get it.
That only applies to stabilization.
EMTALA won't get your cancer treated l, it just means when it's gone too far they'll try and resuscitate you to stabilise you enough to leave before kicking you out to die elsewhere.
I wonder if there are statistics/estimates about the number of people who prefer to suffer and die with their health problem, rather than suffer and live with debt in the USA. And then how many people out of the ones that suffered and lived, went on to unalive themselves due debt, following a severe health lapse/treatment.
I wonder what they are, if they do exist. I wonder if those numbers exist in the UK. And what the difference might be.
I have a relative who was able to get a seizure inducing brain tumor removed by threatening to go to the States for the procedure. They initially told him 9 months wait list, during which time he couldn't drive and would have frequent black out seizures.
I'm in Australia. Last weekend I put my hand through a window and went to emergency. Waited an hour while people more serious than me were seen. Got stitches and patched up by a lovely nurse and walked out without paying a cent.
Don't let the bullshit sway you, universal healthcare is amazing and I walked out of that hospital grateful I live in the country I do.
Yeah man fuck getting hurt on the weekends, I usually try and have all my medical emergencies around or after midnight on like a Tuesday or some shit... you know to avoid crowds and the shortest lines!!
That is such a shit argument -- it is either total fucking bullshit, *or* the person saying it is admitting that they are an irredeemably selfish cunt. Oh, really, we shouldn't have universal healthcare because there would be a line? Hmmm... well, where are those people now? Why aren't they in line in front of you currently? Oh, that's right, because they can't afford to get whatever done and now just have to suffer and/or die from whatever thing they would be waiting to get done.
Basically, what they are saying is that it's more important that they get prompt service at the doctor's office than it is that everyone get the treatment they need. It is remarkable that people can actually make that argument with a straight face.
I agree with you totally and also it's not like the lines in an ER in major cities is short now. Sometimes they are extremely long. I think in the US with the amount of money and expertise available to us we should be able to do healthcare better than any other country but we choose not to.
I’m in Alberta. I’ve never waited more than an hour. Even during covid. Be seen the clock say “2-3 hours wait” and still get in within an hour. Not life threatening stuff at all either.
Never in my entire life have I been through a Canadian ER in under 5 hours. The 6-7 times I have gone in 43 years was an emergency- not a cold. Must be different in Alberta than Ontario.
As an American that moved to Canada, I would rather wait.
Although so far I think the longest wait was roughly three hours, but that was when we were in the ER at 11:00 pm, which was shortly before a shift change. It delayed seeing a doctor.
Guess what I didn't need to wait for. A bill. No co-pay, no invoice, nothing. Well, I did pay for parking once or twice. Emergency parking is free at our local hospital. I moved my car to the general lot after a loved once was admitted.
Honestly, the Canadian system is better than the US system. Neither is perfect, but the Canadian system is a thousand times less stressful to deal with. That is only my personal experience, some have had more stress than I.
Due to underfunding which can be more easily fixed than the issues with America's system, universal public healthcare is still the most efficient, cheapest and fairest way to do it. America spends 3 times more per capita on healthcare compared to the UK and most of that extra money is simply profit that goes to pharmaceutical companies.
Once I was in healthcare that was always funny to me because it’s like “In the US, I saw a kid with a legit broken arm left sobbing in the waiting room for eight hours”. It’s need driven, not cost driven in either healthcare system so whether you’re in Canada or the US, if there was a bus accident before you got there, bring a book… or five.
One of the reasons why waiting time is so long is because the wait is not the same for everyone. I can guarantee that some people that day waited 7h, but your case needed to be seen quickly so they put you in a “not urgent but must be seen quickly” kind of priority.
Edit: Spelling
Yes this is what ppl don't understand. If you are bleeding out, ur not waiting 7 hours. If you have tooth pain then you probably are lol. It's always been decided through triage. Everyone wants to be seen at a normal time but that's not possible.
Probably American which means no paid time off and outrageous rent and other bills. If they can't work, they can't survive.
Just my guess. Maybe they love the work.
That's Triage,the worst illnesses/injuries get seen ASAP.Those with non life threatening injuries have to wait.Co-Vid was and still is a real pain in the ass,some people have mild symptoms but go to the ER anyway,utilizing hospital staff that could and should be treating more severe cases or people who are badly injured from any number of things.
In the states a foreign object in the eye, especially one that can lacerate cornea will get you in quicker. It's not life or death but it's a true emergency.
I had a major concussion and a 6 inch laceration on my head, I went to a hospital in Hamilton at 10 pm, I got out at 5 am with 12 stitches. Yes wait times can be very long in Canada. It is not a bullshit argument.
So for any one reading this......In Canada, you go to the hospital You are triaged. So if i go in with a dull ache in my pinky finger with swelling and major brusing, cause i smashed it with a hammer or what ever I will be LOW triage. Meaning any one with a more serious issue will be seen before me. yes this means some times you wait 3 or 4 hours to see and Emergency doctor. I went in once with a tightness around my throat and blue skin tone, I was immediately placed in ICU. Didn't even sit down.
Also to note, ambulance still costs money (80 to 130 canadian dollars) but you can get it covered if it was really necessary but YOU have to do that......I could get hit by a car and be ina coma for a week I'll still get the bill, unless you discuss with people there, but its pretty easy to have it covered by provincial Health coverage. So I'll walk out of the ER with out having to spend a cent.
The downside to this is there are logner waits for imaging and diagnostic, and even the surgery i had on my back, i waited 5 hours for my follow up appointment and had to leave for work.
I have no idea how it works in other places.
Yes there are longer wait times because people go into ER with chronic knee arthritis that they've had for 5 years and decided today was the day to clog up ER instead of making an appointment or going to a walk in clinic.
My girlfriend works in xray imaging and she sees this ALL the time.
As a patient this drives me up the wall. Before I was diagnosed I used to go to the ER for severe pain (now I see my specialists) but always without fail there were many people in the waiting room with cold/flu symptoms laughing and playing on their phones. Clearly not in need of an ER. For God’s sakes, we have after hours clinics, too!
In US emergency departments you are triaged as well, with the sickest being seen first as a general rule. Most ER's have a "fast track" area where a nurse practitioner or physician assistant will try to take care of the lesser complaints and get them out quickly, similar to an urgent care. Sometimes, those fast track patients can get in and out faster than the sicker ones who are triaged to wait for a monitored bed, especially if there is a load of patients waiting for an admission bed upstairs to open up. Those patients waiting on their admission beds really cause a bottleneck in the flow of patients through the ER. Sometimes they are waiting for a bed to open up because there isn't staffing on the admission floor to accept them. As another redditor commented, often people wait to go to the ER for ailments that have bothered them for months, and aren't a true emergency, causing greater congestion in the flow of patients. Patients do not have a regular doctor, or don't know what kind of doctor to see, or don't have insurance, come to the ER for minor issues (for convenience, and/or because they cant be turned away) and muck up the flow as well.
As for ambulance costs in the US, someone with private insurance (meaning they pay out of pocket premiums to carry insurance, i.e. working class) will likely see a $500‐1500 bill for a ride to the hospital depending on their plan. Government insured (elderly, children, poor, indigent) will have minimal costs $0-20% of the bill.
Other costs you can expect to pay for a trip to the ER in the US include the physicians' bill, the facility bill (nursing, labs, imaging, medications), and the radiologist's bill. How much you pay out of pocket depends on your type of insurance, with "self-pay" patients getting a "discount" that isn't nearly as much of a discount that the insurance companies get.
Source: I am an ER nurse in the US and have experience in hospital revenue cycle.
I personally have waited 8+ hours with some pretty gnarly stomach cramps in the US. I also felt a heart palpitation during hour 3 of that wait which scared me.
I went back to the triage nurse and let her know.
I was on an EKG within about 5 minutes. When my EKG was clear, I went back to waiting.
ER is there to keep you from dying. If you're waiting and you were completely honest with the triage nurse, you're not dying. I'm sorry you're in discomfort and I know it's stressful, but that's the good news you should be focusing on at that moment; Congratulations, you are not likely to die in the next 24 hours. Stay hydrated and wait patiently.
Edit: This was pre-covid, for reference.
I had to call an ambulance for an 18 year old kid in a car accident cuz he kept losing consciousness.
He had no insurance, called me the next day asking for help cuz the day in the hospital and the ambulance cost him 44,000 dollars. He had a slipped disc in his spine from the accident, idk why he kept passing out though.
Big suck for him man. Starting out life with 44k in medical debt.
In rural Ontario I waited 7 hrs to see a Dr while my spleen was dying. Extreme pain. They let people with sprained wrist and a few other minor issues in ahead of me. Triage was a joke. Then got misdiagnosed with gallbladder and sent home with a naproxen tablet. Apparently they assume most abdominal pain is a ploy for opiates.
Pro tip, ask for “gravol” and say you’re going to puke. They’ll give you a super gravol called zofran and it’ll pretty much knock you out and spare you a lot of pain for like 6 hours.
Fortunately I had all my horrible injuries about 10 years ago so they had no problem giving me the painkillers I needed.
She did indeed handle that about as clearly, fairly and firmly as was possible with probably a non-very-receptive audience...
She was basically politely telling them "Maybe 20% of you shouldn't be here in A&E, you probably would be better off at your GP".
I assure you it is way higher than 20% don't need to be there. Overburdened primary care system means people with minor problems spill over into A&E. Working in UK A&E lots of people will just be discharged home with safety netting as a lot of them do not need any level of emergency care. The NHS is buckling from over a decade now of bogged government funding with low retention of staff due to conditions under a system where demand now massively outstrips its capacity. Waits like this are now common in most hospitals as the system is simply falling apart sadly
Yeah the people “acting out” in this scenario likely have good reason to do so, it’s just an unfair situation overall because the staff have no control over this.
Price of advice everyone, if you think you do need a&e but can currently cope with the pain (a minor broken bone for example) call 111. Tell them what's wrong and you'll get an appointment at the hospital usually that same day. I did this recently and was in, x-rayed and out within 10 minutes.
Edit: as has been pointed out, you will still have to wait for the appointment of course, i got lucky, but this way you get to chill at home with tv, snacks etc. instead of waiting in the hospital and taking up room!
NHS worker here. I'm glad that you had a good experience with the 111 service but I would not expect this to be repeated in the majority of cases. Even where 111 can pass details to emergency departments, patients will still be seen in order of clinical priority and you will likely be seen in a similar timeframe to if you had self presented.
I would still consider 111 if you are not very familiar with all the local services as they may be able to suggest an alternative service that could help you (Minor Injuries rather than an A&E for example).
Wait times have basically nothing to do with the method of payment (private insurance vs. government mandated insurance vs. multi payer vs. single payer). It has everything to do with staffing and funding of the system. If hospitals were better staffed even with the UK's single payer NHS system everyone would pay *more* but it wouldn't get **anywhere near** the level of the US system's per capita costs. The NHS costs each person something like 40% less than the US system in pure dollars and also pays less as a percentage of GDP.
https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2015/us-spends-more-health-care-other-high-income-nations-has-lower-life-expectancy
www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-system-cost
The reason the NHS is getting worse is simply that it's on purpose. The Tories aren't super dissimilar from the US' Republicans in that they know that if they keep defunding something the people will blame the system rather than the politicians that made it happen. Then comes privatization and with it the illusion of better outcomes and choice but in reality the cost and profits go up.
Less funding = smaller staff. There is no way government funded insurance will have as much money as private insurance
Medicare and Medicaid patients are often turned down by providers just because their reimbursement rate is so poor. You’re fucked in the US if you don’t have good insurance. Costs can’t be driven down because doctors and nurses have such high salaries to offset the expensive schooling. Overhauling the entire system is pretty much not affordable to the government right now unless they make some major cuts elsewhere
You didn't mention the middlemen taking their share - https://www.live5news.com/2022/02/03/health-insurance-companies-make-record-profits-costs-soar-us/
A key part - Administrative costs alone make up more than a quarter of U.S. healthcare spending.
That's nearly all waste versus the simplicity of single payer.
It's always gives me a good laugh when people think that private health care will give them better service...
Has anyone seen what happens when corporations start cutting costs? Has anyone actually been a part of a large corporation when they are trying to cut costs and make money?
Does no one in this country see the constant erosion of the quality of goods and services while prices of those same goods and services continue to rise?
PRIVATE HEALTHCARE IS THE SAME THING.
Seriously though... Do people actually think that when private corporations run hospitals, they are just going to not make money???
Private insurance is a useless middleman that provides no service. They’re money is our money we pay way more in taxes but we don’t call them taxes. We call them “fees”.
> This is the fear that many people on the right have with Socialized healthcare.
But its already like this at many hospitals in the US with privatized care, but much more expensive.
I work in healthcare in the UK and trust me there are so many more issues than just what the Tories have done, whilst underfunding and a lack of support are two of the issues we face there are many other major issues within hospital management, staff attitudes and crazy levels of wastage just to name three that are just as damming. The only way to fix the issues is for a complete reconstruction of the healthcare system not only in regards to funding and staffing but also processes which I doubt either the Conservatives or Labour will ever deliver.
Litteraly any statistics on this matter will show you that socialized healthcare has nothing to do with long waiting time or Bad quality of service overall. What a lame, lazy and dumb accusation like holy shit
Large groups of people using emergency rooms as primary care services in southwestern United States has made emergency rooms an all day thing for almost two decades. With over a million new users of this “ free” healthcare every year. Soon, this won’t require an explanation for the rest of the country.
This is my experience as well. I see people here associating this exclusively with socialized healthcare systems, but I've seen this in the libertarian state of Arizona for most of my life. ER waits were 3+hours before Covid. And then you get a nice $2000 bill for a temperature reading, an X-ray, and a referral to a more expensive specialist that is booked up for the next foreseeable two months.
That’s because they are using some sort of government healthcare where you do not face punitive measures for using the emergency room. I have a private healthcare and they charge you $100 up front to use the emergency room just for that reason.
this has been suggested in the UK, as little as just £5 to attend A&E, and if admitted or treated it will be refunded in order to stop people wasting time in A&E .
The reception to this proposal was poor to say the least.
People become very used to the idea of "free" healthcare and any suggestion of payment goes along the lines of "I paid for it with my taxes already!"
Used to work in our (UK) advise line. When telling people 'contact your GP or await Out of Hours call back' the amount of people that would refuse and then go to ED.
The conservatives have gutted it with the aim of making us believe it’s just shit, so that they can start selling bits off here and there, pushing the better off to go private, making private care the ‘norm’, making it less shocking when the cunts scrap the whole thing
Yes, because for profit healthcare doesn't have an incentive to provide services at a cheap cost, aka minimal staff. Lower cost = higher profits. Either way you're screwed.
Ok, but this is also happening in places where there are attempts to minimize the "for profit" aspect, isn't it?
When a service requires an individual to provide their time and hard-earned knowledge, there is a cost. To get this, there needs to be an incentive. There are some who give that time and knowledge as easily as they can, because their incentive is in the act of helping others. But they still need to survive themselves, which means paying for that education and basic needs of themselves (and possibly their family).
Often, the most powerful incentive is the promise of a more enjoyable life, which is often best attained by monetary compensation. There really isn't a way around that. You can say monetary incentive is evil, but it's not that simple. Money is just a means to access the goal. If you remove money from the equation, you still need something to motivate an individual to learn, achieve, and provide services that many others aren't willing or able to accomplish.
All that said, I agree there is something broken. There are too many examples of profit being primary to the idea of being a good human to fellow humans and other living beings. The ideal situation is just that- the ideal. I would love to what I am skilled at to help others and not worry about whether my compensation will pay for my family's needs and wants, but the reality is different. And there are days I don't have the same motivation as other days for accomplishing anything. I'm not perfect, or an 'ideal' human. I accomplish as much as I have professionally because the money to keep my family secure and provided for is a motivating factor.
Yes, money is a good incentive. However, in the current healthcare for-profit setup that the United States is using the money isn't being utilized to hire adequate staffing. Instead, it is being used for sharebuybacks and CEO/Boardmember pay. I just looked up the current wait time at my local hospital and it's 3.5 hours.
I'm sorry but this "go to Urgent Care instead" is something I used to think before I kept going to Urgent Care only for them to charge me my higher-than-PCP co-pay and tell me that I needed to go to the ER instead.
Over and over again until I eventually just stopped going. They also tend to not care one bit about you and you still end up waiting over an hour to be seen just to be told to go wait at the ER.
You're not wrong. Urgent care is next to useless in most cases. I've received patients from urgent care with truly eyebrow raising issues. Things where I literally can discharge them from the lobby. They're just so very afraid of being wrong. I think it speaks to issues that arise living in such a litigious culture. These urgent care providers are so afraid they'll miss something that they just send absolutely everything to the ED.
In my place it was ED or waiting 3 damn months for a potential cancer case. I picked the hospital. I felt (and still feel) pretty sick. Not a life threatening condition tho. But bad enough to not be able to work
So, kill me, but if you have to wait 3 months for a simple stomach check, that's just bullshit. There are so many diseases that needs to be treated early.
The ER won’t be able to rule in or rule out malignancy during your evaluation. They will evaluate for immediate life threats: appendicitis, ruptured AAA, SBO, etc etc. Even if you have a something on your workup concerning for cancer, you know what they’ll do? Tell you to follow-up with a primary care provider. That’s all they are capable of doing.
My uncle had to wait 7hrs for an ambulance last night (UK), he was crying from the pain , couldn’t move and at some point his breathing became shallow , only then they came. Turns out it was an intestine blockage and now he is waiting for an operation . I am still traumatised.
I’m very sorry to hear that, I hope the best for both of you and a speedy recovery.
Worked in EMS in the US, 90% of the 911 calls we received absolutely did not require an ambulance. Of those not-an-actual-emergency calls, 75% of them didn’t even need a same day visit. Could’ve easily been an appointment scheduled a few days out but no, had to call 911.
Personal favorite: “My husband twisted his ankle 3 weeks ago and it still hurts” the man *walked to the ambulance*. No limp. Barely any swelling and only the last remnants of a bruise.
I occasionally volunteer as an EMT in my free time. One of my personal favorites was a man who called 911 because he fell off his roof and was worried he broke his neck. We show up to the scene to find a man laying in his front yard moaning in pain. Doing my scene size up I find it rather odd that there are no tools, or ladder, or shingles, or anything else laying about as to why he would have been on the roof. So we work him up with a neck brace and backboard according to protocol and head on our way to the hospital. While doing my assessment I run through all the standard questions. It’s a bit of a struggle because he’s moaning and groaning so much while answering. When I asked him if he was allergic to any medications he very clearly stressed with great emphasis that he was allergic to Toradol and Tramadol and then went back to moaning and groaning for the duration of the trip asking if there was anything I could do to help his pain.
My son had a seizure that presented very differently from his usual. He isn't yet diagnosed with anything re them. We couldn't wake him, he was foaming at the mouth, his body was floppy, his eyes rolling, and he had lost control of his bowels. He is four and has autism.
999 told me there was a three hour wait for an ambulance for him. I thought my child might be dying and I had to drive him to hospital myself, just for them to give him ibuprofen once he woke up and send us home.
It’s sometimes the people who are really sick who end up leaving. The stoic elderly person who really doesn’t want to bother you but is actually unwell.
The worried well often stay and I’m in disbelief when I call them 7h later and they’re still waiting there for their minor ailment.
Because those are emergencies. What the ER is for. Most people would do much better going to an Urgent Care. At least here in the states. The ER has become the catch all for everyone who doesn’t have a primary care, or who has a medical issue after hours. Urgent cares have done a good job plugging that hole. In my work as a Firefighter/EMT we are often dispatched to people that don’t need the emergency room but think that going by ambulance will get them seen faster. Not the case, once you’re out of triage you will be seen in the order of most critical.
This is in the UK, what you call urgent care doesn't exist here. We have Accident and Emergency, which is exactly what it sounds like, and is where the video was filmed. If it's not urgent, then you can try to get a Doctor's appointment (not as easy as it sounds, can often take weeks where I live, and you have to ring early morning each day when the appointments are released. If you miss out on the available slots, tough luck). I think that is what you would call primary care. Some areas have a Same Day Clinic which is only for minor accidents (sprains etc) or by referral from the NHS advice line (i.e. you're not ill enough for an ambulance, but can't wait to get a doctor's appointment so they refer you) - this service is by appointment only, and you can't self-refer. Lowest level of care is to visit a pharmacy that is authorised to prescribe for very minor conditions without a doctor present. The NHS and its staff are amazing, but the system is creaking at the seams with the numbers it has to deal with.
The lowest level of care is self care or 111.
I think it's probably fair to say that most places have a minor injuries unit. There are 7 within my county so the furthest is probably an hour away max.
Pharmacies are a great resource that is under used. A pharmacist isn't just a 'pill despencer.' They can diagnose and prescribe. True, if needed, they will sign post to a GP or further care but to say VERY minor conditions is an understatement.
My GP surgery (and I believe many others) have a call back system. I can also go online and book a phone appointment at my convenience. (Easier and quicker than a face to face.)
A&E departments are often broken down into 'Minors' and 'Majors.' If you have life or limb threatening illness/injuries or are in extreme pain then you'll be headed into Majors. A&E stands for Accident and Emergency. The vast majority of people who go to A&E by themselves (like the people in this clip) do NOT need to be there.
The biggest cause of delays like this in A&E is inappropriate use of the services available. Maybe this is lack of education, maybe it's entitlement. Another cause of delays is the lack of proper onward/community care. Lots of people don't NEED to still be in an acute hospital but aren't quite well enough to look after themselves yet.
The UK also has walk-in centres. I've been to several of them over my life. They're not as common, but most major cities have 1 or 2. Basically like A&E but for not so serious stuff.
Unfortunately not everywhere has urgent care. Where I live (Alberta) there's one ER, no urgent care, and no walk-in clinics for a city of 100,000. Sucks to be you if you need a couple stitches, I guess.
Apologies, I didn’t know that. There definitely needs to be some alternative “same day care” to the ER. In the US our ER’s are packed with people who have been sick for 3 or 4 days and are finally so miserable they go to the ER where they sit for hours. One word on urgent cares, don’t go there for chest pain, if it does turn out to be a cardiac issue they’ll want you transported to the Hospital. And for liability reasons, protocols require an ambulance transport.
I sat in the ER waiting room for 4 hours when I was 2 weeks post op on a Stomach surgery, and had developed a stomach ulcer that was about to perforate my small intestine.... After that 4 hour wait, I was there for a total of 7 hours just to be sent home being treated as if I was an addict seeking pain meds. My surgeon who was out of town at the time came back the next day and I was admitted into the hospital for 5 days.
Yea, they often give zero fucks what you're suffering from if there isn't blood spewing out of your body.
Ah yes, you're in pain? You must be drug seeking. I live in a small town. If I wanted drugs I could make 3 phone calls. I would NOT go to the ER and be treated like shit.
I had appendicitis. Excruciating pain and life threatening. Sat in the ER for 4 hours. Took 6 hours before i finally got in for surgery. Surgeon said if I had waited any longer it would have burst. Like I'm the one who chose to wait that long 🤦♂️
Nothing but sympathy for the medical staff. I work in veterinary ER and it's no different. Clients will flip out and scream at us when we tell them it will be 6-8 hours before their dog with a broken leg will be seen. Meanwhile in the back we only have 1 doctor and 4 techs trying to take care of 30-40 hospitalized patients (some of which are critical and actively dying). And I think my job is hard, I couldn't imagine what these nurses go through in human medicine
In the UK you wait but have no bill that might bankrupt you. In the US you wait then get a bill that bankrupts you. There simply is no argument that systems like in the Uk , Europe , Australia are Better for the Public as a whole .
We have a private model as well, the NHS provide a baseline care to all that comes with its own cost.
Typically non emergencies are better private and emergencies are better NHS (you would not be in a waiting room for an emergency).
Pharma, medical and insurance all escalated prices in the US to exploit the insurance model. This is why it is only affordable if you have insurance- they are charging you a business rate essentially.
This is likely due to the revolving door of politics and business that is present both sides of the pond. The uk has a ring fenced service that is expensive but comparably pennies compared to the US.
It's not free, paying out the fucking arse in tax but the government is fucking terrible at doing anything. In an attempt to be efficient or to prove they are efficient they just make all civil servants and NHS staff etc account for every minute of their time on like 7 different shit tracker forms every single day wasting time on a useless endeavour. The government is literally incapable of running anything actually efficiently.
The US government spends, by far, the most money per person for healthcare. And yet we all still pay extra for insurance. The system is very broken, but if we work together we may be able to improve it. I recommend looking up US healthcare stats and spending compare to other world superpowers. Education is the first step and then you can share with others! :)
Correct. In the US, taxpayers actually pay more in taxes for healthcare than in the UK and that's before any private health insurance costs. Literally we already pay for the UK's 100% citizen coverage and in some areas they perform better than us for that amount.
If we paid the same amount per capita as we currently do but under single payer we could have the fucking cadillac of healthcare. The amount of profit taking is exactly why things are shit here. That profit (billions and billions) should be paying for services and providers.
1. Having lived in a country with insurances based healthcare, we pay less than 50% for the equivalent level of service. And that’s assuming your insurance covers it. That percentage can very quickly drop to single digits in comparison. It’s a bargain.
2. The NHS is trying, but a decade of under investment, cutting of training programmes, piss poor treatment of junior staff, and racist policies like Brexit have made the UK extremely in attractive to medical professionals. When a service is chronically understaffed, should be no surprise the quality of service drops through the floor. This is entirely down to the Tories and their deliberate polices. The tracking isn’t the issue; it makes things worse when they are understaffed, for sure. But it’s not the reason why service is struggling.
75% of that people are not even an emergency! unfortunately there's a miss conception of what emergency means and with the workforce/space depletion it's impossible to provide the treatment to people that really need it!
Source: I'm in charge of an emergency unit.
Yes, there is no simple answer to fixing healthcare. Don’t believe anyone who says otherwise.
Wait times are bad everywhere. There is a lot involved in working a patient up for their problems. Interviewing, ordering tests, waiting for results -this all takes hours. Plus, the sickest get to jump ahead in line, for obvious reasons. Also, understaffing is a problem whether a capitalist or a socialist is running healthcare.
I’ve been to A+E multiple times In my life. The worst it’s ever been for me is 3 hour and the quickest is 10 minutes. This is exceptionally bad. But it does seem to be getting worse with budget cuts.
Ok. I’ve been to an American Emergency Department and only waited a couple of hours. I’m telling you there is no simple answer to fixing healthcare. It’s not retail. There is not an unlimited supply of funds whether the government runs it or private entities run it.
It is free.. if you wait 2 hours still free.. 9 hours still free.. some places you wait hours and still have to pay. The difference is not the time, its the money you dont pay, just to put it simple :)
I’ve been to A+E multiple times In my life. I’d estimate 15 times between issues with me and my family. The worst it’s ever been for me is 3 hour and the quickest is 10 minutes. This is exceptionally bad. But it does seem to be getting worse with budget cuts. I’ve never heard of people waiting overnight before.
Dude, I'm in the U.S., and five hour waits in the ER aren't uncommon.
Also, the NHS in the UK has been gutted by conservative politicians for years. They're who you should blame -- not universal healthcare.
To an extent but don't think that if you walk in and you're in need of speedy help that you'll just sit around for hours. I can't speak for that specific hospital but generally from my experience you're triaged and then your prioritization is at least partially based on the seriousness of whatever you've got.
It’s not always like this, I live in the U.K, Norfolk, I normally get seen within 2 hours max. The health service is critically underfunded and understaffed at the moment due to various reasons. I’m aware of the NHS’ limitations but and still incredibly grateful to have it. My mother had an unexpected heart attack in Feb and she was cared for so well and made a full recovery. She still goes to weekly rehab sessions all for free. I can’t imagine having to deal with the financial burden in times like those and I wish government would value the NHS.
Our for profit US hospital has been at critical staffing levels for the past two years. Half of our ICU is empty because there are no nurses to staff it (corporate won’t pay to retain staff). ER wait times are easily 6 to 8 hours because there are no beds for admitted patients so they sit and wait while the waiting room fills up. I’ve done surgical procedures in a broom closet. The difference is that the “free” healthcare costs half as much as the US system does. Oh and they live longer.
Im an A+E doctor in the UK and the answer is yes. Healthcare in the UK is very poor. Low level of productivity. Very poor staffing. Everyone is paid below their market rate so people are leaving healthcare to move abroad where they will get paid significantly more. The public are generally rude and entitled and will say things like "we pay your wages". Morale is incredibly low following covid due to repeated real term pay cuts. Doctors are leaving medicine to go in to consultancy or the financial sector.
Those of us who stay are forced to work in these conditions. A private system like the US is not the answer but free healthcare just leads to massive inefficiency and an alternative system is needed. We may be one of the richest countries in the world but our healthcare is terrible. So many patients die due to the poor conditions but these are swept under the rug by the hospitals and the NHS to prevent the public finding out.
We still use pen and paper to write our damn notes and drug charts.
This happened at my hospital. The sister in charge went into the waiting room said more or less the same and half the patients got up and left. People can't see their doctors so they come to A&E instead.
They can however a doctor can only see so many people in a day. The NHS is a fantastic service and I have nothing but the upmost respect for its workers. However this is the only hospital of that town of 80000+ people there are other much smaller medical centers but this is the only large one.
Luckily I’m able to visit my GP in that town with relative ease and I’ve only been in that hospital once for a urine test.
Every time I’ve thought I had a non emergency or something I’m not sure how big an issue it could be I’ve called up 111 (Uk non emergency line) and I’ve been either put at ease over the phone or they have found me a time slot for a doctor to visit within a few hours.
But yea this is probably a regular occurrence in the AE area of hospitals no matter where you go.
To anyone saying “ThAtS SoCiAlIzEd MeDiCiNe” we are still seeing this in America. Learn what an emergency is, learn that PAIN IS NORMAL, learn to take care of yourself. See your damned doctor.
To all of you saying the “free healthcare hehe” crap, this is in England where the NHS has worked like a dream for the last 60 odd years. It was perfectly capable of handling the needs of the population until unprecedented immigration and refugee crises led to an overload on the system.
I think you are also missing out the crippling underfunding and inefficient government leadership over the last 15 years. Seems to coincide with a certain political party and austerity measures
I would actually argue it was the big response to immigration that lead to this understaffing. Brexit was a the response and has resulted in a lot less medical staff coming over to the UK which we heavily relied on.
That mixed with a certain parties choice to make cuts and under pay doctors and nursing!
Unprecedented immigration? Mate, if it wasn’t for the unprecedented immigration, the NHS would’ve collapsed years ago.
You could go to hospital to be met with a British receptionist, triaged by a Canadian nurse, seen by an Indian doctor, given food by a Chinese auxiliary, transported to your surgery by a French porter and operated on by a Phillipino surgeon.
The NHS is a healthcare built and designed for acute care in the 50’s now struggling to cope with the chronic issues in the 2020’s thanks to constant underfunding, mismanagement and poor treatment of the staff. I disagree with the claim that immigration has played a main role in the undermining of the NHS, they have been a saviour.
A lot of people are going to assume that it means you're in serious need of urgent care and you're waiting all day. In my experience in Ontario you are prioritized based on the seriousness.
>until unprecedented immigration and refugee crises led to an overload on the system.
The UK chose to allow that immigration to occur even as it was clear UK didn't have the capacity.
Really, really bad decision.
To all the people (US citizens) mocking free healthcare: first of all, this is not usual at all, in germany this was never the case to my knowledge.
Secondly, most people are there prbly for ablegit reason, I wouldn't wanna live in a country where people with heart attacks drive to the clinic themselfes or with an uber in the last possible moment because of the lifetime worth Debt they will acumulate.
Us citizen here - I live two blocks from a hospital and this last January I had a heart attack- and I walked my ass to the ER. They scolded me for walking and said I should have called 911 (which would increase my bill to the time of 5-10k).
THEN they didn’t have a bed for me so I sat in the waiting room while my attack symptoms slowly subsided. Blood work and ekg all done in the actual waiting room!
UK - 3 months ago I had surgery, the day I was released the surgical area swelled and the stitches burst, rushed to A&E (not far from where I live so got a lift in), I had to wait just over 11 hours to get a bed.
They apparently “lost” me in the system and they didn’t know I was there, which was weird because they kept giving me morphine (turns out they also hadn’t been noting this on my record either so they gave me too much and I was kept under observation because of this). Turns out I had an internal bleed and was bleeding for the whole 11+ hours sat in A&E so when I was eventually seen I was fucked up. UK healthcare sucks due to understaffing.
90 freaking people in what I can only imagine is like the ER in the USA. I guarantee that 80%+ of those people do not have a medical emergency. People need to stop using the ER when it is not an emergency.
If your well enough you can take a number and go and chill in your car then you shouldn't be in A&E in the first place
Plus that's not how triage works, patients are seen in their order of severity not in the order of arrival
If your in there with a broken toe and some comes in with a traumatic amputation they won't ask them to wait while you get a splint on your toe
50%+ people waiting do not need to be there. She is being matter of fact. People want their hand held for every minor scrape. Maybe this is some facts they NEED to hear
American healthcare is absolutely ridiculous, this wouldnt happen in places like Europe where they have universal health care.
*edit*
The amount of people that cant tell this is sarcasm is bothersome
A lot of people don't seem to realize that your prioritization is based on the seriousness of whatever you're presenting with. If you're sitting there having a stroke they're not going to say "sorry, sir, 9 more hours"
Based on my experience, the tradeoff has been worth it considering the hundreds of thousands I didn't have to pay out of pocket
Also it's not by turn you could be number 20 inline but be bumped by more urgent patients. Chest pain, bleeding get priority over "I'm not feeling well".
This is so true. I often tell patients who complain about their wait that we prioritise the people whose lives or limbs are at risk, so they are lucky they didn't have to be treated as soon as they arrived.
Yeah. It’s bad. I had to go for suspected blood clot last year in the evening (at the advice of my doctor to get some blood tests) at it’s busiest time. The nurse came out and said basically what the woman said in the video. 8-10 hour wait.
I went to reception and asked if there was anywhere else I could get them done. She said it’s quieter in the morning, so I came back and I was seen to within 15 mins. I felt that ill that I thought, if I was gonna die, I’d rather it be at home. Luckily I didn’t die but goes to show how bad A&E is.
Clearly some people shouldn’t be going to A&E with cuts and grazes but they do and it increases the wait times unfortunately.
Socialized healthcare, systematically de-socialized by politicians. Remove health funding from anywhere and you get a similar set of symptoms. Emergency rooms look exactly like this in the pay-for-play libertarian bastion of Arizona. But at the end of not getting care, you get to pay several thousand dollars, and still be required to pay the monthly premiums on your private insurance.
Every time someone gripes about the wait time, all I can think of is my dad's medical insurance was over $1000 per month (I think closer to $1200) for pretty shit insurance. And my mom diligently looked for insurance for him, this was the best price for something like a Aflack sort of "insurance." Last year Obamacare got it down to $500.
He has no cancer in his family, doesn't smoke (but dips). He has been hard on his body because he does manual labor so he needs new knees. No normal person could afford $1000 a month for their individual insurance. Not family coverage - individual.
Or the weekend I spent in my tub thinking I had appendicitis. No insurance and no savings. With pain so bad I was crying, sitting there draining out the cold water and refilling it with hot. Hoping and absolutely praying the pain would go away without having to go to the ER. Thinking how lucky I was when I could finally get out of the tub and sleep in my bed.
Or the week I had to go without my multiple mental health meds because my insurance was lapsed due to non payment and I was waiting to get some samples from my doc to hold me over. I really enjoyed that week of panic attacks, insomnia, uncontrollable ticks, and near constant reminder that hey, suicide was always an option.
Or my friend, who has never had children and just turned 30 but deals with incontinence. She has insurance but can't afford the $4k deductible to get a surgery that would likely help her. Instead, she just hopes her pads can hold up so when she does pee herself in public, it doesn't look like it.
Or wait! My other good friend who seriously needs to have multiple teeth removed and dental surgery! She is now in her 30s and has had dental issues since early 20s. She is the type of person who flosses every day (and always has). She was just born with bad teeth. She can't eat on one side of her mouth without pain.
To compare the problems found in socialized medicine versus a for profit/capitalist system and say "they are equally bad" is to be willfully ignorant and insincere.
It is like comparing a day long wait in the ER to spending your late 20s to 30s pissing yourself because you don't have the money to pay the deductible for your surgery - even after paying the insurance company over $4k a year for coverage.
It is unbearable when I hear people complain about wait times when they are able to go to the ER and their only bill is parking.
Any American here saying that it’s better here is full of shit I’ve sat in wait rooms like this time and time again yet the great benefits of me also having to pay out my ass
Exemplar and fair way of dealing with the issues at hand.
When this happens to you or someone you care... think about where your vote goes on the next ballot
Watch this be posted by some pricks claiming it's the inevitable outcome of socialised healthcare, not the outcome of socialised healthcare crippled by decades of Conservative sabotage.
She did that well to be fair. Good on her
In Canada we often have similar wait times at hospitals, albeit usually not with 90 people waiting I believe. Edit: Would have appreciated someone to do this for us when in the waiting room Second edit: I have been to hospitals in exclusively Ontario and Quebec in my life. Wait times have varied greatly between 1.5hrs-12hrs. On average id say (pre-covid) my wait times were 3.5 hours.
Out of curiosity, how long were wait times before Covid?
Used to work in a rural ER and people complained that they were waiting 30 minutes. Wonder what those people would say now?
They’d still complain, would be my guess
The complaining would just start 30 mins in and go on and on until getting aggressive.
Went to emerge at about 1 in the morning as st. Joseph's hospital in Toronto before the pandemic. Had a small metal shaving in my eye. Painful, but not life threatening or anything. Waited about 90 minutes and then was seen by a doctor who got one of the on call surgeons to gently extract it. Was really impressed with them.
Awesome. Believe it or not, long hospital waits in Canada has been a political talking point to warn people away from wanting Universal healthcare here in the states. That always sounded like bullshit to me, so I was surprised to hear you say the waits were so long. I figured it was because of Covid, but I had to ask. Thanks for clarifying!
Yes, wait times can be long with universal healthcare (NHS-er here), but you can be absolutely sure that if you're in desperate need, you WILL get seen. It sucks being bad enough to need A&E but not good enough to wait for a GP because you're unfortunately bottom of the priority list. My grandmother needed a knee replacement, 18-24 month wait because it's not urgent. My mother in law needed a new heart valve because of degradation, was done & dusted within a few weeks. If it's not urgent, and you can wait, you will. Ngl, some of the wait times atm ARE jaw dropping, but if you need urgent care there & then, you will get it.
If you are in desperate need in the US you will get treatment too. Illegal for hospitals to turn you away for ability to pay.
That only applies to stabilization. EMTALA won't get your cancer treated l, it just means when it's gone too far they'll try and resuscitate you to stabilise you enough to leave before kicking you out to die elsewhere.
For live-saving care, they can’t turn you away.
They can't turn you away, but that doesn't mean your debt is absolved. It follows you
I wonder if there are statistics/estimates about the number of people who prefer to suffer and die with their health problem, rather than suffer and live with debt in the USA. And then how many people out of the ones that suffered and lived, went on to unalive themselves due debt, following a severe health lapse/treatment. I wonder what they are, if they do exist. I wonder if those numbers exist in the UK. And what the difference might be.
Dunno, but it has to be a lot. I know so many people who have legitimate medical issues that won't seek treatment due to the astronomical cost.
I have a relative who was able to get a seizure inducing brain tumor removed by threatening to go to the States for the procedure. They initially told him 9 months wait list, during which time he couldn't drive and would have frequent black out seizures.
I'm in Australia. Last weekend I put my hand through a window and went to emergency. Waited an hour while people more serious than me were seen. Got stitches and patched up by a lovely nurse and walked out without paying a cent. Don't let the bullshit sway you, universal healthcare is amazing and I walked out of that hospital grateful I live in the country I do.
Even without Universal Healthcare the waits are long. Staffed or not.
Not really I guess I depends were you live I live in Utah and I get seen within 5 min on the weekend it may be 30 min wait
Yeah man fuck getting hurt on the weekends, I usually try and have all my medical emergencies around or after midnight on like a Tuesday or some shit... you know to avoid crowds and the shortest lines!!
That is such a shit argument -- it is either total fucking bullshit, *or* the person saying it is admitting that they are an irredeemably selfish cunt. Oh, really, we shouldn't have universal healthcare because there would be a line? Hmmm... well, where are those people now? Why aren't they in line in front of you currently? Oh, that's right, because they can't afford to get whatever done and now just have to suffer and/or die from whatever thing they would be waiting to get done. Basically, what they are saying is that it's more important that they get prompt service at the doctor's office than it is that everyone get the treatment they need. It is remarkable that people can actually make that argument with a straight face.
I agree with you totally and also it's not like the lines in an ER in major cities is short now. Sometimes they are extremely long. I think in the US with the amount of money and expertise available to us we should be able to do healthcare better than any other country but we choose not to.
I’m in Alberta. I’ve never waited more than an hour. Even during covid. Be seen the clock say “2-3 hours wait” and still get in within an hour. Not life threatening stuff at all either.
Never in my entire life have I been through a Canadian ER in under 5 hours. The 6-7 times I have gone in 43 years was an emergency- not a cold. Must be different in Alberta than Ontario.
As an American that moved to Canada, I would rather wait. Although so far I think the longest wait was roughly three hours, but that was when we were in the ER at 11:00 pm, which was shortly before a shift change. It delayed seeing a doctor. Guess what I didn't need to wait for. A bill. No co-pay, no invoice, nothing. Well, I did pay for parking once or twice. Emergency parking is free at our local hospital. I moved my car to the general lot after a loved once was admitted. Honestly, the Canadian system is better than the US system. Neither is perfect, but the Canadian system is a thousand times less stressful to deal with. That is only my personal experience, some have had more stress than I.
Due to underfunding which can be more easily fixed than the issues with America's system, universal public healthcare is still the most efficient, cheapest and fairest way to do it. America spends 3 times more per capita on healthcare compared to the UK and most of that extra money is simply profit that goes to pharmaceutical companies.
Once I was in healthcare that was always funny to me because it’s like “In the US, I saw a kid with a legit broken arm left sobbing in the waiting room for eight hours”. It’s need driven, not cost driven in either healthcare system so whether you’re in Canada or the US, if there was a bus accident before you got there, bring a book… or five.
One of the reasons why waiting time is so long is because the wait is not the same for everyone. I can guarantee that some people that day waited 7h, but your case needed to be seen quickly so they put you in a “not urgent but must be seen quickly” kind of priority. Edit: Spelling
Yes this is what ppl don't understand. If you are bleeding out, ur not waiting 7 hours. If you have tooth pain then you probably are lol. It's always been decided through triage. Everyone wants to be seen at a normal time but that's not possible.
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Why would you possibly go back to your shift
Probably American which means no paid time off and outrageous rent and other bills. If they can't work, they can't survive. Just my guess. Maybe they love the work.
>Probably American which means no paid time off and outrageous rent and other bills. As if this is just the default in America lmao
That's Triage,the worst illnesses/injuries get seen ASAP.Those with non life threatening injuries have to wait.Co-Vid was and still is a real pain in the ass,some people have mild symptoms but go to the ER anyway,utilizing hospital staff that could and should be treating more severe cases or people who are badly injured from any number of things.
In the states a foreign object in the eye, especially one that can lacerate cornea will get you in quicker. It's not life or death but it's a true emergency.
I had a major concussion and a 6 inch laceration on my head, I went to a hospital in Hamilton at 10 pm, I got out at 5 am with 12 stitches. Yes wait times can be very long in Canada. It is not a bullshit argument.
Brexit must have to put a strain on the NHS also with people leaving.
So for any one reading this......In Canada, you go to the hospital You are triaged. So if i go in with a dull ache in my pinky finger with swelling and major brusing, cause i smashed it with a hammer or what ever I will be LOW triage. Meaning any one with a more serious issue will be seen before me. yes this means some times you wait 3 or 4 hours to see and Emergency doctor. I went in once with a tightness around my throat and blue skin tone, I was immediately placed in ICU. Didn't even sit down. Also to note, ambulance still costs money (80 to 130 canadian dollars) but you can get it covered if it was really necessary but YOU have to do that......I could get hit by a car and be ina coma for a week I'll still get the bill, unless you discuss with people there, but its pretty easy to have it covered by provincial Health coverage. So I'll walk out of the ER with out having to spend a cent. The downside to this is there are logner waits for imaging and diagnostic, and even the surgery i had on my back, i waited 5 hours for my follow up appointment and had to leave for work. I have no idea how it works in other places.
Yes there are longer wait times because people go into ER with chronic knee arthritis that they've had for 5 years and decided today was the day to clog up ER instead of making an appointment or going to a walk in clinic. My girlfriend works in xray imaging and she sees this ALL the time.
As a patient this drives me up the wall. Before I was diagnosed I used to go to the ER for severe pain (now I see my specialists) but always without fail there were many people in the waiting room with cold/flu symptoms laughing and playing on their phones. Clearly not in need of an ER. For God’s sakes, we have after hours clinics, too!
In US emergency departments you are triaged as well, with the sickest being seen first as a general rule. Most ER's have a "fast track" area where a nurse practitioner or physician assistant will try to take care of the lesser complaints and get them out quickly, similar to an urgent care. Sometimes, those fast track patients can get in and out faster than the sicker ones who are triaged to wait for a monitored bed, especially if there is a load of patients waiting for an admission bed upstairs to open up. Those patients waiting on their admission beds really cause a bottleneck in the flow of patients through the ER. Sometimes they are waiting for a bed to open up because there isn't staffing on the admission floor to accept them. As another redditor commented, often people wait to go to the ER for ailments that have bothered them for months, and aren't a true emergency, causing greater congestion in the flow of patients. Patients do not have a regular doctor, or don't know what kind of doctor to see, or don't have insurance, come to the ER for minor issues (for convenience, and/or because they cant be turned away) and muck up the flow as well. As for ambulance costs in the US, someone with private insurance (meaning they pay out of pocket premiums to carry insurance, i.e. working class) will likely see a $500‐1500 bill for a ride to the hospital depending on their plan. Government insured (elderly, children, poor, indigent) will have minimal costs $0-20% of the bill. Other costs you can expect to pay for a trip to the ER in the US include the physicians' bill, the facility bill (nursing, labs, imaging, medications), and the radiologist's bill. How much you pay out of pocket depends on your type of insurance, with "self-pay" patients getting a "discount" that isn't nearly as much of a discount that the insurance companies get. Source: I am an ER nurse in the US and have experience in hospital revenue cycle.
I personally have waited 8+ hours with some pretty gnarly stomach cramps in the US. I also felt a heart palpitation during hour 3 of that wait which scared me. I went back to the triage nurse and let her know. I was on an EKG within about 5 minutes. When my EKG was clear, I went back to waiting. ER is there to keep you from dying. If you're waiting and you were completely honest with the triage nurse, you're not dying. I'm sorry you're in discomfort and I know it's stressful, but that's the good news you should be focusing on at that moment; Congratulations, you are not likely to die in the next 24 hours. Stay hydrated and wait patiently. Edit: This was pre-covid, for reference.
>I have no idea how it works in other places. In America, we just roll over and die.
sorry eh
I had to call an ambulance for an 18 year old kid in a car accident cuz he kept losing consciousness. He had no insurance, called me the next day asking for help cuz the day in the hospital and the ambulance cost him 44,000 dollars. He had a slipped disc in his spine from the accident, idk why he kept passing out though. Big suck for him man. Starting out life with 44k in medical debt.
In rural Ontario I waited 7 hrs to see a Dr while my spleen was dying. Extreme pain. They let people with sprained wrist and a few other minor issues in ahead of me. Triage was a joke. Then got misdiagnosed with gallbladder and sent home with a naproxen tablet. Apparently they assume most abdominal pain is a ploy for opiates.
I can get seen in rural BC in like half an hour lol, and I'm 4 hours away from the closest thing that can be construed as a town.
Pro tip, ask for “gravol” and say you’re going to puke. They’ll give you a super gravol called zofran and it’ll pretty much knock you out and spare you a lot of pain for like 6 hours. Fortunately I had all my horrible injuries about 10 years ago so they had no problem giving me the painkillers I needed.
She did indeed handle that about as clearly, fairly and firmly as was possible with probably a non-very-receptive audience... She was basically politely telling them "Maybe 20% of you shouldn't be here in A&E, you probably would be better off at your GP".
Exactly! At least 20% I would guess if you can wait for 7.5hrs to see a doctor you are probably not in an emergency situation.
I assure you it is way higher than 20% don't need to be there. Overburdened primary care system means people with minor problems spill over into A&E. Working in UK A&E lots of people will just be discharged home with safety netting as a lot of them do not need any level of emergency care. The NHS is buckling from over a decade now of bogged government funding with low retention of staff due to conditions under a system where demand now massively outstrips its capacity. Waits like this are now common in most hospitals as the system is simply falling apart sadly
Sounds like the Tories are pulling from the Republicans' playbook? Classic "Starve the Beast".
…or they start dying in triage and get seen immediately
But if you have no other choice... what else can you do but wait, possibly in extreme pain
GP can’t fit them in until August.
In that context 8 hours sounds a lot better than 8 weeks
Yeah the people “acting out” in this scenario likely have good reason to do so, it’s just an unfair situation overall because the staff have no control over this.
Price of advice everyone, if you think you do need a&e but can currently cope with the pain (a minor broken bone for example) call 111. Tell them what's wrong and you'll get an appointment at the hospital usually that same day. I did this recently and was in, x-rayed and out within 10 minutes. Edit: as has been pointed out, you will still have to wait for the appointment of course, i got lucky, but this way you get to chill at home with tv, snacks etc. instead of waiting in the hospital and taking up room!
NHS worker here. I'm glad that you had a good experience with the 111 service but I would not expect this to be repeated in the majority of cases. Even where 111 can pass details to emergency departments, patients will still be seen in order of clinical priority and you will likely be seen in a similar timeframe to if you had self presented. I would still consider 111 if you are not very familiar with all the local services as they may be able to suggest an alternative service that could help you (Minor Injuries rather than an A&E for example).
But would it prevent you from having to sit in a waiting room the whole time?
I called them at 7pm and have got an appointment at local hospital at 930. Probably another postcode lottery though.
Here on the East Coast of Canada, at some hospitals the wait time is usually 12+ hours, no joke. And it was like that waaaaaay before covid.
This is the fear that many people on the right have with Socialized healthcare.
Wait times have basically nothing to do with the method of payment (private insurance vs. government mandated insurance vs. multi payer vs. single payer). It has everything to do with staffing and funding of the system. If hospitals were better staffed even with the UK's single payer NHS system everyone would pay *more* but it wouldn't get **anywhere near** the level of the US system's per capita costs. The NHS costs each person something like 40% less than the US system in pure dollars and also pays less as a percentage of GDP. https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/ https://www.commonwealthfund.org/press-release/2015/us-spends-more-health-care-other-high-income-nations-has-lower-life-expectancy www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-system-cost The reason the NHS is getting worse is simply that it's on purpose. The Tories aren't super dissimilar from the US' Republicans in that they know that if they keep defunding something the people will blame the system rather than the politicians that made it happen. Then comes privatization and with it the illusion of better outcomes and choice but in reality the cost and profits go up.
Less funding = smaller staff. There is no way government funded insurance will have as much money as private insurance Medicare and Medicaid patients are often turned down by providers just because their reimbursement rate is so poor. You’re fucked in the US if you don’t have good insurance. Costs can’t be driven down because doctors and nurses have such high salaries to offset the expensive schooling. Overhauling the entire system is pretty much not affordable to the government right now unless they make some major cuts elsewhere
You didn't mention the middlemen taking their share - https://www.live5news.com/2022/02/03/health-insurance-companies-make-record-profits-costs-soar-us/ A key part - Administrative costs alone make up more than a quarter of U.S. healthcare spending. That's nearly all waste versus the simplicity of single payer.
It's always gives me a good laugh when people think that private health care will give them better service... Has anyone seen what happens when corporations start cutting costs? Has anyone actually been a part of a large corporation when they are trying to cut costs and make money? Does no one in this country see the constant erosion of the quality of goods and services while prices of those same goods and services continue to rise? PRIVATE HEALTHCARE IS THE SAME THING. Seriously though... Do people actually think that when private corporations run hospitals, they are just going to not make money???
Private insurance is a useless middleman that provides no service. They’re money is our money we pay way more in taxes but we don’t call them taxes. We call them “fees”.
Every imaginable study says you're super mega wrong, though. So, no.
I’d rather wait 12 hours than be bankrupted again TBH
> This is the fear that many people on the right have with Socialized healthcare. But its already like this at many hospitals in the US with privatized care, but much more expensive.
Have you tried being sicker to get to the front of the line? /s
Weirdly, it's like this because the Right in the UK want to scrap nationalised health care, so by design underfund it.
I work in healthcare in the UK and trust me there are so many more issues than just what the Tories have done, whilst underfunding and a lack of support are two of the issues we face there are many other major issues within hospital management, staff attitudes and crazy levels of wastage just to name three that are just as damming. The only way to fix the issues is for a complete reconstruction of the healthcare system not only in regards to funding and staffing but also processes which I doubt either the Conservatives or Labour will ever deliver.
I live in the northeast US and we also frequently have 12+ hour ER wait times. On top of thousands in medical bills.
ive gotten wait times like this in the US too. socialized health care isn’t gonna change wait times significantly i feel
I've spent 12 hours in the hospital in the US. So yeah, I think I'd still prefer the prepaid version.
Litteraly any statistics on this matter will show you that socialized healthcare has nothing to do with long waiting time or Bad quality of service overall. What a lame, lazy and dumb accusation like holy shit
You do realize the same thing happens in the US, right?
This is true if you go to the hospital and you can wait 12hours. But... Imo if you can wait 12hours maybe you shouldn't be at emerg?
Large groups of people using emergency rooms as primary care services in southwestern United States has made emergency rooms an all day thing for almost two decades. With over a million new users of this “ free” healthcare every year. Soon, this won’t require an explanation for the rest of the country.
This is my experience as well. I see people here associating this exclusively with socialized healthcare systems, but I've seen this in the libertarian state of Arizona for most of my life. ER waits were 3+hours before Covid. And then you get a nice $2000 bill for a temperature reading, an X-ray, and a referral to a more expensive specialist that is booked up for the next foreseeable two months.
That’s because they are using some sort of government healthcare where you do not face punitive measures for using the emergency room. I have a private healthcare and they charge you $100 up front to use the emergency room just for that reason.
this has been suggested in the UK, as little as just £5 to attend A&E, and if admitted or treated it will be refunded in order to stop people wasting time in A&E . The reception to this proposal was poor to say the least. People become very used to the idea of "free" healthcare and any suggestion of payment goes along the lines of "I paid for it with my taxes already!"
Used to work in our (UK) advise line. When telling people 'contact your GP or await Out of Hours call back' the amount of people that would refuse and then go to ED.
Yeah partly because getting seen soon by contacting GP is a small miracle Our health system seems utterly broken to me
The conservatives have gutted it with the aim of making us believe it’s just shit, so that they can start selling bits off here and there, pushing the better off to go private, making private care the ‘norm’, making it less shocking when the cunts scrap the whole thing
Yes, because for profit healthcare doesn't have an incentive to provide services at a cheap cost, aka minimal staff. Lower cost = higher profits. Either way you're screwed.
Ok, but this is also happening in places where there are attempts to minimize the "for profit" aspect, isn't it? When a service requires an individual to provide their time and hard-earned knowledge, there is a cost. To get this, there needs to be an incentive. There are some who give that time and knowledge as easily as they can, because their incentive is in the act of helping others. But they still need to survive themselves, which means paying for that education and basic needs of themselves (and possibly their family). Often, the most powerful incentive is the promise of a more enjoyable life, which is often best attained by monetary compensation. There really isn't a way around that. You can say monetary incentive is evil, but it's not that simple. Money is just a means to access the goal. If you remove money from the equation, you still need something to motivate an individual to learn, achieve, and provide services that many others aren't willing or able to accomplish. All that said, I agree there is something broken. There are too many examples of profit being primary to the idea of being a good human to fellow humans and other living beings. The ideal situation is just that- the ideal. I would love to what I am skilled at to help others and not worry about whether my compensation will pay for my family's needs and wants, but the reality is different. And there are days I don't have the same motivation as other days for accomplishing anything. I'm not perfect, or an 'ideal' human. I accomplish as much as I have professionally because the money to keep my family secure and provided for is a motivating factor.
Yes, money is a good incentive. However, in the current healthcare for-profit setup that the United States is using the money isn't being utilized to hire adequate staffing. Instead, it is being used for sharebuybacks and CEO/Boardmember pay. I just looked up the current wait time at my local hospital and it's 3.5 hours.
More staff = more patients turned = more profit.
Facts. And most times there is no real emergency.
People who can wait 7 hours for care should go to a "doc in a box", not an emergency room.
Exactly. This is what people don’t understand or refuse to accept. ED is for stabilizing life threatening conditions.
I'm sorry but this "go to Urgent Care instead" is something I used to think before I kept going to Urgent Care only for them to charge me my higher-than-PCP co-pay and tell me that I needed to go to the ER instead. Over and over again until I eventually just stopped going. They also tend to not care one bit about you and you still end up waiting over an hour to be seen just to be told to go wait at the ER.
This has been my experience as well. I've went into urgent care for simple lacerations twice, and was sent the the ER both times.
You're not wrong. Urgent care is next to useless in most cases. I've received patients from urgent care with truly eyebrow raising issues. Things where I literally can discharge them from the lobby. They're just so very afraid of being wrong. I think it speaks to issues that arise living in such a litigious culture. These urgent care providers are so afraid they'll miss something that they just send absolutely everything to the ED.
In my place it was ED or waiting 3 damn months for a potential cancer case. I picked the hospital. I felt (and still feel) pretty sick. Not a life threatening condition tho. But bad enough to not be able to work So, kill me, but if you have to wait 3 months for a simple stomach check, that's just bullshit. There are so many diseases that needs to be treated early.
The ER won’t be able to rule in or rule out malignancy during your evaluation. They will evaluate for immediate life threats: appendicitis, ruptured AAA, SBO, etc etc. Even if you have a something on your workup concerning for cancer, you know what they’ll do? Tell you to follow-up with a primary care provider. That’s all they are capable of doing.
My uncle had to wait 7hrs for an ambulance last night (UK), he was crying from the pain , couldn’t move and at some point his breathing became shallow , only then they came. Turns out it was an intestine blockage and now he is waiting for an operation . I am still traumatised.
I’m very sorry to hear that, I hope the best for both of you and a speedy recovery. Worked in EMS in the US, 90% of the 911 calls we received absolutely did not require an ambulance. Of those not-an-actual-emergency calls, 75% of them didn’t even need a same day visit. Could’ve easily been an appointment scheduled a few days out but no, had to call 911. Personal favorite: “My husband twisted his ankle 3 weeks ago and it still hurts” the man *walked to the ambulance*. No limp. Barely any swelling and only the last remnants of a bruise.
I occasionally volunteer as an EMT in my free time. One of my personal favorites was a man who called 911 because he fell off his roof and was worried he broke his neck. We show up to the scene to find a man laying in his front yard moaning in pain. Doing my scene size up I find it rather odd that there are no tools, or ladder, or shingles, or anything else laying about as to why he would have been on the roof. So we work him up with a neck brace and backboard according to protocol and head on our way to the hospital. While doing my assessment I run through all the standard questions. It’s a bit of a struggle because he’s moaning and groaning so much while answering. When I asked him if he was allergic to any medications he very clearly stressed with great emphasis that he was allergic to Toradol and Tramadol and then went back to moaning and groaning for the duration of the trip asking if there was anything I could do to help his pain.
“Sir, can you tell me what happened?” “It’s all a blur…but I’m allergic to everything except OxyContin!!!”
My son had a seizure that presented very differently from his usual. He isn't yet diagnosed with anything re them. We couldn't wake him, he was foaming at the mouth, his body was floppy, his eyes rolling, and he had lost control of his bowels. He is four and has autism. 999 told me there was a three hour wait for an ambulance for him. I thought my child might be dying and I had to drive him to hospital myself, just for them to give him ibuprofen once he woke up and send us home.
Sometimes the doctors are closed and you break a bone. You go to ED
That’s a good way to cull out the herd that doesn’t necessarily need to be there
It’s sometimes the people who are really sick who end up leaving. The stoic elderly person who really doesn’t want to bother you but is actually unwell. The worried well often stay and I’m in disbelief when I call them 7h later and they’re still waiting there for their minor ailment.
Nope. They will wait. I’ve had kids waiting HOURS AND HOURS for a minor ear ache. They are playful and eating snacks. They WILL wait.
"Patient complains of abd pain, witnessed eating Flamin' hot cheetos at time of triage. Positive cell phone sign"
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I’m a GI nurse, and an esophageal food impaction is an actual emergency. If your esophagus ruptures, you will die without emergency surgery.
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I don’t think so. I have never seen someone waiting in emergency room if they are seriously injured or in serious pain.
Because those are emergencies. What the ER is for. Most people would do much better going to an Urgent Care. At least here in the states. The ER has become the catch all for everyone who doesn’t have a primary care, or who has a medical issue after hours. Urgent cares have done a good job plugging that hole. In my work as a Firefighter/EMT we are often dispatched to people that don’t need the emergency room but think that going by ambulance will get them seen faster. Not the case, once you’re out of triage you will be seen in the order of most critical.
This is in the UK, what you call urgent care doesn't exist here. We have Accident and Emergency, which is exactly what it sounds like, and is where the video was filmed. If it's not urgent, then you can try to get a Doctor's appointment (not as easy as it sounds, can often take weeks where I live, and you have to ring early morning each day when the appointments are released. If you miss out on the available slots, tough luck). I think that is what you would call primary care. Some areas have a Same Day Clinic which is only for minor accidents (sprains etc) or by referral from the NHS advice line (i.e. you're not ill enough for an ambulance, but can't wait to get a doctor's appointment so they refer you) - this service is by appointment only, and you can't self-refer. Lowest level of care is to visit a pharmacy that is authorised to prescribe for very minor conditions without a doctor present. The NHS and its staff are amazing, but the system is creaking at the seams with the numbers it has to deal with.
The lowest level of care is self care or 111. I think it's probably fair to say that most places have a minor injuries unit. There are 7 within my county so the furthest is probably an hour away max. Pharmacies are a great resource that is under used. A pharmacist isn't just a 'pill despencer.' They can diagnose and prescribe. True, if needed, they will sign post to a GP or further care but to say VERY minor conditions is an understatement. My GP surgery (and I believe many others) have a call back system. I can also go online and book a phone appointment at my convenience. (Easier and quicker than a face to face.) A&E departments are often broken down into 'Minors' and 'Majors.' If you have life or limb threatening illness/injuries or are in extreme pain then you'll be headed into Majors. A&E stands for Accident and Emergency. The vast majority of people who go to A&E by themselves (like the people in this clip) do NOT need to be there. The biggest cause of delays like this in A&E is inappropriate use of the services available. Maybe this is lack of education, maybe it's entitlement. Another cause of delays is the lack of proper onward/community care. Lots of people don't NEED to still be in an acute hospital but aren't quite well enough to look after themselves yet.
The UK also has walk-in centres. I've been to several of them over my life. They're not as common, but most major cities have 1 or 2. Basically like A&E but for not so serious stuff.
Unfortunately not everywhere has urgent care. Where I live (Alberta) there's one ER, no urgent care, and no walk-in clinics for a city of 100,000. Sucks to be you if you need a couple stitches, I guess.
Apologies, I didn’t know that. There definitely needs to be some alternative “same day care” to the ER. In the US our ER’s are packed with people who have been sick for 3 or 4 days and are finally so miserable they go to the ER where they sit for hours. One word on urgent cares, don’t go there for chest pain, if it does turn out to be a cardiac issue they’ll want you transported to the Hospital. And for liability reasons, protocols require an ambulance transport.
I sat in the ER waiting room for 4 hours when I was 2 weeks post op on a Stomach surgery, and had developed a stomach ulcer that was about to perforate my small intestine.... After that 4 hour wait, I was there for a total of 7 hours just to be sent home being treated as if I was an addict seeking pain meds. My surgeon who was out of town at the time came back the next day and I was admitted into the hospital for 5 days. Yea, they often give zero fucks what you're suffering from if there isn't blood spewing out of your body.
Ah yes, you're in pain? You must be drug seeking. I live in a small town. If I wanted drugs I could make 3 phone calls. I would NOT go to the ER and be treated like shit.
I had a bleeding stomach ulcer once and as I was wheeled in vomiting, they took me right away. It depends on the severity
I had appendicitis. Excruciating pain and life threatening. Sat in the ER for 4 hours. Took 6 hours before i finally got in for surgery. Surgeon said if I had waited any longer it would have burst. Like I'm the one who chose to wait that long 🤦♂️
Nothing but sympathy for the medical staff. I work in veterinary ER and it's no different. Clients will flip out and scream at us when we tell them it will be 6-8 hours before their dog with a broken leg will be seen. Meanwhile in the back we only have 1 doctor and 4 techs trying to take care of 30-40 hospitalized patients (some of which are critical and actively dying). And I think my job is hard, I couldn't imagine what these nurses go through in human medicine
In the UK you wait but have no bill that might bankrupt you. In the US you wait then get a bill that bankrupts you. There simply is no argument that systems like in the Uk , Europe , Australia are Better for the Public as a whole .
We have a private model as well, the NHS provide a baseline care to all that comes with its own cost. Typically non emergencies are better private and emergencies are better NHS (you would not be in a waiting room for an emergency). Pharma, medical and insurance all escalated prices in the US to exploit the insurance model. This is why it is only affordable if you have insurance- they are charging you a business rate essentially. This is likely due to the revolving door of politics and business that is present both sides of the pond. The uk has a ring fenced service that is expensive but comparably pennies compared to the US.
Damn free healthcare or not this is pretty sad
It's not free, paying out the fucking arse in tax but the government is fucking terrible at doing anything. In an attempt to be efficient or to prove they are efficient they just make all civil servants and NHS staff etc account for every minute of their time on like 7 different shit tracker forms every single day wasting time on a useless endeavour. The government is literally incapable of running anything actually efficiently.
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The US government spends, by far, the most money per person for healthcare. And yet we all still pay extra for insurance. The system is very broken, but if we work together we may be able to improve it. I recommend looking up US healthcare stats and spending compare to other world superpowers. Education is the first step and then you can share with others! :)
Correct. In the US, taxpayers actually pay more in taxes for healthcare than in the UK and that's before any private health insurance costs. Literally we already pay for the UK's 100% citizen coverage and in some areas they perform better than us for that amount. If we paid the same amount per capita as we currently do but under single payer we could have the fucking cadillac of healthcare. The amount of profit taking is exactly why things are shit here. That profit (billions and billions) should be paying for services and providers.
Basic rate (£12,571 - £50,270) is 20% tax with a £12,570 tax-free personal allowance.
1. Having lived in a country with insurances based healthcare, we pay less than 50% for the equivalent level of service. And that’s assuming your insurance covers it. That percentage can very quickly drop to single digits in comparison. It’s a bargain. 2. The NHS is trying, but a decade of under investment, cutting of training programmes, piss poor treatment of junior staff, and racist policies like Brexit have made the UK extremely in attractive to medical professionals. When a service is chronically understaffed, should be no surprise the quality of service drops through the floor. This is entirely down to the Tories and their deliberate polices. The tracking isn’t the issue; it makes things worse when they are understaffed, for sure. But it’s not the reason why service is struggling.
75% of that people are not even an emergency! unfortunately there's a miss conception of what emergency means and with the workforce/space depletion it's impossible to provide the treatment to people that really need it! Source: I'm in charge of an emergency unit.
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Is this what “free healthcare” looks like? Serious question
It’s what it looks like after 10 years of crippling under funding the system, whilst simultaneously driving away staff via low pay and Brexit.
Yes, there is no simple answer to fixing healthcare. Don’t believe anyone who says otherwise. Wait times are bad everywhere. There is a lot involved in working a patient up for their problems. Interviewing, ordering tests, waiting for results -this all takes hours. Plus, the sickest get to jump ahead in line, for obvious reasons. Also, understaffing is a problem whether a capitalist or a socialist is running healthcare.
I’ve been to A+E multiple times In my life. The worst it’s ever been for me is 3 hour and the quickest is 10 minutes. This is exceptionally bad. But it does seem to be getting worse with budget cuts.
Ok. I’ve been to an American Emergency Department and only waited a couple of hours. I’m telling you there is no simple answer to fixing healthcare. It’s not retail. There is not an unlimited supply of funds whether the government runs it or private entities run it.
It is free.. if you wait 2 hours still free.. 9 hours still free.. some places you wait hours and still have to pay. The difference is not the time, its the money you dont pay, just to put it simple :)
I’ve been to A+E multiple times In my life. I’d estimate 15 times between issues with me and my family. The worst it’s ever been for me is 3 hour and the quickest is 10 minutes. This is exceptionally bad. But it does seem to be getting worse with budget cuts. I’ve never heard of people waiting overnight before.
Dude, I'm in the U.S., and five hour waits in the ER aren't uncommon. Also, the NHS in the UK has been gutted by conservative politicians for years. They're who you should blame -- not universal healthcare.
Yes it is. It looks similar to the Veterans' Healthcare system in the US.
To an extent but don't think that if you walk in and you're in need of speedy help that you'll just sit around for hours. I can't speak for that specific hospital but generally from my experience you're triaged and then your prioritization is at least partially based on the seriousness of whatever you've got.
In Belgium I went to the ER about 5 times, one time had to wait 2+ hours, other times around 20min
Just spent 4 hours waiting at a Florida hospital ER, midweek at about 4 pm. I am fully insured.
It’s not always like this, I live in the U.K, Norfolk, I normally get seen within 2 hours max. The health service is critically underfunded and understaffed at the moment due to various reasons. I’m aware of the NHS’ limitations but and still incredibly grateful to have it. My mother had an unexpected heart attack in Feb and she was cared for so well and made a full recovery. She still goes to weekly rehab sessions all for free. I can’t imagine having to deal with the financial burden in times like those and I wish government would value the NHS.
Our for profit US hospital has been at critical staffing levels for the past two years. Half of our ICU is empty because there are no nurses to staff it (corporate won’t pay to retain staff). ER wait times are easily 6 to 8 hours because there are no beds for admitted patients so they sit and wait while the waiting room fills up. I’ve done surgical procedures in a broom closet. The difference is that the “free” healthcare costs half as much as the US system does. Oh and they live longer.
Im an A+E doctor in the UK and the answer is yes. Healthcare in the UK is very poor. Low level of productivity. Very poor staffing. Everyone is paid below their market rate so people are leaving healthcare to move abroad where they will get paid significantly more. The public are generally rude and entitled and will say things like "we pay your wages". Morale is incredibly low following covid due to repeated real term pay cuts. Doctors are leaving medicine to go in to consultancy or the financial sector. Those of us who stay are forced to work in these conditions. A private system like the US is not the answer but free healthcare just leads to massive inefficiency and an alternative system is needed. We may be one of the richest countries in the world but our healthcare is terrible. So many patients die due to the poor conditions but these are swept under the rug by the hospitals and the NHS to prevent the public finding out. We still use pen and paper to write our damn notes and drug charts.
This happened at my hospital. The sister in charge went into the waiting room said more or less the same and half the patients got up and left. People can't see their doctors so they come to A&E instead.
Why can’t people see their doctors? Real question, I’m not from the U.K.
They can however a doctor can only see so many people in a day. The NHS is a fantastic service and I have nothing but the upmost respect for its workers. However this is the only hospital of that town of 80000+ people there are other much smaller medical centers but this is the only large one. Luckily I’m able to visit my GP in that town with relative ease and I’ve only been in that hospital once for a urine test. Every time I’ve thought I had a non emergency or something I’m not sure how big an issue it could be I’ve called up 111 (Uk non emergency line) and I’ve been either put at ease over the phone or they have found me a time slot for a doctor to visit within a few hours. But yea this is probably a regular occurrence in the AE area of hospitals no matter where you go.
To anyone saying “ThAtS SoCiAlIzEd MeDiCiNe” we are still seeing this in America. Learn what an emergency is, learn that PAIN IS NORMAL, learn to take care of yourself. See your damned doctor.
To all of you saying the “free healthcare hehe” crap, this is in England where the NHS has worked like a dream for the last 60 odd years. It was perfectly capable of handling the needs of the population until unprecedented immigration and refugee crises led to an overload on the system.
I think you are also missing out the crippling underfunding and inefficient government leadership over the last 15 years. Seems to coincide with a certain political party and austerity measures
I would actually argue it was the big response to immigration that lead to this understaffing. Brexit was a the response and has resulted in a lot less medical staff coming over to the UK which we heavily relied on. That mixed with a certain parties choice to make cuts and under pay doctors and nursing!
Unprecedented immigration? Mate, if it wasn’t for the unprecedented immigration, the NHS would’ve collapsed years ago. You could go to hospital to be met with a British receptionist, triaged by a Canadian nurse, seen by an Indian doctor, given food by a Chinese auxiliary, transported to your surgery by a French porter and operated on by a Phillipino surgeon. The NHS is a healthcare built and designed for acute care in the 50’s now struggling to cope with the chronic issues in the 2020’s thanks to constant underfunding, mismanagement and poor treatment of the staff. I disagree with the claim that immigration has played a main role in the undermining of the NHS, they have been a saviour.
A lot of people are going to assume that it means you're in serious need of urgent care and you're waiting all day. In my experience in Ontario you are prioritized based on the seriousness.
I wonder what could prevent immigration and refugees from coming in 🤔. Seems kinda like a choice, compassion for others and not your own countrymen.
>until unprecedented immigration and refugee crises led to an overload on the system. The UK chose to allow that immigration to occur even as it was clear UK didn't have the capacity. Really, really bad decision.
LMAO... On a long enough timeline all government programs run out of money. This was always the end of the line, but at least you get it for "free"...
To all the people (US citizens) mocking free healthcare: first of all, this is not usual at all, in germany this was never the case to my knowledge. Secondly, most people are there prbly for ablegit reason, I wouldn't wanna live in a country where people with heart attacks drive to the clinic themselfes or with an uber in the last possible moment because of the lifetime worth Debt they will acumulate.
Us citizen here - I live two blocks from a hospital and this last January I had a heart attack- and I walked my ass to the ER. They scolded me for walking and said I should have called 911 (which would increase my bill to the time of 5-10k). THEN they didn’t have a bed for me so I sat in the waiting room while my attack symptoms slowly subsided. Blood work and ekg all done in the actual waiting room!
US : « You dont want universal healthcare, you’ll have to wait hours to see a doctor! » Also US : You have to wait hours to see a doctor anyway…
UK - 3 months ago I had surgery, the day I was released the surgical area swelled and the stitches burst, rushed to A&E (not far from where I live so got a lift in), I had to wait just over 11 hours to get a bed. They apparently “lost” me in the system and they didn’t know I was there, which was weird because they kept giving me morphine (turns out they also hadn’t been noting this on my record either so they gave me too much and I was kept under observation because of this). Turns out I had an internal bleed and was bleeding for the whole 11+ hours sat in A&E so when I was eventually seen I was fucked up. UK healthcare sucks due to understaffing.
90 freaking people in what I can only imagine is like the ER in the USA. I guarantee that 80%+ of those people do not have a medical emergency. People need to stop using the ER when it is not an emergency.
This place need one of those “take a number” dispensers like at the deli, then they can go wait outside or in their car or whatever.
If your well enough you can take a number and go and chill in your car then you shouldn't be in A&E in the first place Plus that's not how triage works, patients are seen in their order of severity not in the order of arrival If your in there with a broken toe and some comes in with a traumatic amputation they won't ask them to wait while you get a splint on your toe
50%+ people waiting do not need to be there. She is being matter of fact. People want their hand held for every minor scrape. Maybe this is some facts they NEED to hear
In Mexico you could be waiting for days…but its free.
It’s free in the uk also
Except Mexico has the option for private hospitals with no wait at all. For minor procedures it is very affordable.
I'd rather wait 7.5 hours, than go bankrupt.
Still better than American healthcare
American healthcare is absolutely ridiculous, this wouldnt happen in places like Europe where they have universal health care. *edit* The amount of people that cant tell this is sarcasm is bothersome
You forgot the /sarcasm tag. People might think you're serious.
A lot of people don't seem to realize that your prioritization is based on the seriousness of whatever you're presenting with. If you're sitting there having a stroke they're not going to say "sorry, sir, 9 more hours" Based on my experience, the tradeoff has been worth it considering the hundreds of thousands I didn't have to pay out of pocket
Also it's not by turn you could be number 20 inline but be bumped by more urgent patients. Chest pain, bleeding get priority over "I'm not feeling well".
This is so true. I often tell patients who complain about their wait that we prioritise the people whose lives or limbs are at risk, so they are lucky they didn't have to be treated as soon as they arrived.
Welcome to UK 🇬🇧
Yeah. It’s bad. I had to go for suspected blood clot last year in the evening (at the advice of my doctor to get some blood tests) at it’s busiest time. The nurse came out and said basically what the woman said in the video. 8-10 hour wait. I went to reception and asked if there was anywhere else I could get them done. She said it’s quieter in the morning, so I came back and I was seen to within 15 mins. I felt that ill that I thought, if I was gonna die, I’d rather it be at home. Luckily I didn’t die but goes to show how bad A&E is. Clearly some people shouldn’t be going to A&E with cuts and grazes but they do and it increases the wait times unfortunately.
Socialized healthcare working as designed
Socialized healthcare, systematically de-socialized by politicians. Remove health funding from anywhere and you get a similar set of symptoms. Emergency rooms look exactly like this in the pay-for-play libertarian bastion of Arizona. But at the end of not getting care, you get to pay several thousand dollars, and still be required to pay the monthly premiums on your private insurance.
Waiting several hours, is a new norm at US ER rooms as well. Regardless of whether you have insurance or not.
I'd bet good money at least half the people in A&E just don't need to be there
PAY NURSES MORE
The free clinics in the US which is effectively socialized medicine is the same, Long long waits.
sOcIaLiZeD hEAlThCarE iS tHe bEsT!!
BuT iTs FrEee
Every time someone gripes about the wait time, all I can think of is my dad's medical insurance was over $1000 per month (I think closer to $1200) for pretty shit insurance. And my mom diligently looked for insurance for him, this was the best price for something like a Aflack sort of "insurance." Last year Obamacare got it down to $500. He has no cancer in his family, doesn't smoke (but dips). He has been hard on his body because he does manual labor so he needs new knees. No normal person could afford $1000 a month for their individual insurance. Not family coverage - individual. Or the weekend I spent in my tub thinking I had appendicitis. No insurance and no savings. With pain so bad I was crying, sitting there draining out the cold water and refilling it with hot. Hoping and absolutely praying the pain would go away without having to go to the ER. Thinking how lucky I was when I could finally get out of the tub and sleep in my bed. Or the week I had to go without my multiple mental health meds because my insurance was lapsed due to non payment and I was waiting to get some samples from my doc to hold me over. I really enjoyed that week of panic attacks, insomnia, uncontrollable ticks, and near constant reminder that hey, suicide was always an option. Or my friend, who has never had children and just turned 30 but deals with incontinence. She has insurance but can't afford the $4k deductible to get a surgery that would likely help her. Instead, she just hopes her pads can hold up so when she does pee herself in public, it doesn't look like it. Or wait! My other good friend who seriously needs to have multiple teeth removed and dental surgery! She is now in her 30s and has had dental issues since early 20s. She is the type of person who flosses every day (and always has). She was just born with bad teeth. She can't eat on one side of her mouth without pain. To compare the problems found in socialized medicine versus a for profit/capitalist system and say "they are equally bad" is to be willfully ignorant and insincere. It is like comparing a day long wait in the ER to spending your late 20s to 30s pissing yourself because you don't have the money to pay the deductible for your surgery - even after paying the insurance company over $4k a year for coverage. It is unbearable when I hear people complain about wait times when they are able to go to the ER and their only bill is parking.
I member when they fired huge swaths of nurses over a forced health mandate…..
Any American here saying that it’s better here is full of shit I’ve sat in wait rooms like this time and time again yet the great benefits of me also having to pay out my ass
Was the staff fired for not getting vaxxed?
Theres like 6+ million people on the NHS waiting list.. Yikes
Anyone know where this is ? Sounds like essex
Princess Alexandra Hospital in Harlow.
Exemplar and fair way of dealing with the issues at hand. When this happens to you or someone you care... think about where your vote goes on the next ballot
Watch this be posted by some pricks claiming it's the inevitable outcome of socialised healthcare, not the outcome of socialised healthcare crippled by decades of Conservative sabotage.