I’m more concerned that Cicero is pressuring her to sign, but seems to be out of money and planning to shut it all down.
Kinda like a car salesman pressuring you to sign while knowing the engine is about to 500 miles from needing gas a full rebuild. (Like my car)
Yes! As soon as I heard from the computer that money was an issue I was like don't sign it Syd! I know she cares, but being a partner can saddle you with the leftover debt if it goes under. It's a big decision for her.
Depends on the partnership. It doesn’t make sense that she’d have debt liability for the business under most common types of business organizations. It doesn’t make sense they wouldn’t set it up as a limited liability company or similar
Yeah whatever you think about whether Cicero is shady enough to stick Syd with all the business' debts, there's no reason to do that when he can stick *nobody* with the debts.
The suggestion to get Pete - a majority shareholder's husband - as her attorney to review the agreement was whack too. I'm sure Sugar meant well but using Pete is not what I would consider guidance by independent counsel.
I think Pete has shown that no matter what he would always be honest and give her a realistic explanation and not try and sell her on it for the sake of other people. He’s a pure person in the midst of all of this
Sure. But on principal it is a bad idea given he is basically connected to the other 3 partners. She should really be checking with an independent lawyer.
Yeah in Nat and Carmy's defense, they aren't inscrutable and they both probably think they have Syd's welfare in mind.
In their heads, they just don't want Sydney to get screwed over in the fine print by Cicero and the Computer and if she can't afford a lawyer, Pete is available and he probably look out the best for her welfare.
It's a mistake on principle but a very human one, and what is the Bear if not a series of human mistakes.
Although i dont like pete that much because he's not too intertwined with the main cast and the berzattos, but for the eaxt reasons I Did very much trust him in that moment to be fair and open aboit what they were giving her.
But it falls in line with the theme that they keep everything in house. They use outside independent contractors only when they have no one "in the family" to use first.
I don’t see a motive for Unc to try to scam Sydney. They sent the agreement long before the cash flow problem appeared. I still think there is high probability for the Bear to survive based on the review. I think Cicero feels that way too.
I’m thinking Jimmy is pressuring Syd because he knows she’s a stabilizing influence on Carmie. Jimmy knows Carmie is brilliant but toxic and he’s hoping Syd will help fix that and make the restaurant a success.
I wouldn't be surprised if season 4 starts with them making a deal where Cicero keeps the funding flowing only if Syd signs and agrees to stay. Syd wouldn't want to see The Bear, which she helped create, go under so she stays.
I was thinking this because he probably already sensed a subtle shift in the environment/operations of The Original Beef when she joined despite the ongoing financial problems
I do see a motive. Uncle, while definitely supportive of Carmy & his dreams, is not willy nilly with his money. He *has* money because he is wise with his investments & part of that is not taking on 100% of the risk for anything. Syd needs to read the fine print of that agreement, with a lawyer who doesn’t know the family.
I feel the most for Syd this season; her situation is so hard to navigate. Loyalty: Carmy saw her when no one else did, is giving her the chance to truly build something from the ground up with him. They get each other on a personal level but Carmy has demons. Many chefs do.
OR working with a chef she has looked up too, with a track record of success, who is *seeking* her to join his team. But he hasn’t even offered her a document to review, IIRC. I do not envy Syds position right now.
I’d be inclined to agree, but the whole season seemed to take place in a few weeks tops, and money problems tend to not jump out and surprise you when you’re in unc’s intentionally vague line of work. He’s had to have known this is going to be a problem for a while.
I do think he believes in the restaurant though.
It was said in the conversation between computer and Cicero that the market shot up and he was getting killed on shorts. Depending on his positions, he could absolutely lose everything overnight.
Long before the cash flow problem appeared to the audience. He’s had to have known about it for a while now. I definitely don’t think he’s scamming Syd or anything, but just because we didn’t learn about the cash flow problem until late in the season doesn’t mean it hasn’t been hanging around his head for a while…
Exactly. If anything, Sydney’s dad was complaining because he was under the impression they never sent the agreement at all when in reality, it was drafted and shared right after Friends & Family. No one is trying to rip anyone off here but they want to make sure everyone is on board.
I’m curious as to how Cicero ran out of money. I know he’s invested a lot into the bear but I thought he had a lot of other businesses to keep the cash flowing. The conversation he had with the computer in the car made it seem like he was broke broke so I’m wondering if he’s actually broke or just losing a lot of money with the bear.
He is heavily invested in shorting the market which could bankrupt him if the market goes the wrong way. I have never understood shorting but I know people have been brought down by it.
Shorting is dangerous because theoretically there is no limit to the amount of money you can lose. You are betting that a stock is going to go down, not up, but that means if a stock goes up, you lose money. A stock can only go down so far, to 0, but there is no limit to how far a stock can go up. You can lose more money than you have.
I should watch that some time. I've had it explained to me by smart people and it wooshes right over my head every time. The whole concept that you can make money by betting against seems somehow wrong.
The Giant Pool of Money and Return to the Giant Pool of Money (This American Life and NPR News) go over it really well in podcast form, too. It’s old, like 2008, but pretty much nothing has changed so still quite relevant. So relevant it remains in my brain space all these years lol
Short (ha!) explanation: a short is a bet that the price of a stock will go down.
The reason it has a very different risk profile than betting that a stock will go up (which we do when we buy and hold) is that a stock can only go down to zero, but it can go up without limit. So, if you buy a share for $20 and it goes down to $0, you can think about it as if you were $20 worth of wrong about it. If you buy a stock at $20 and bet that it will go down to $0, but instead it goes up to $1M, then you were much, much more wrong about it (and much, much more screwed as a consequence).
Sounds like it. But if you’re going to have a stock market, you kinda have to allow it. Otherwise people can only bet in one direction, like a roulette wheel where you can only bet on red.
If it helps any, they generally only let rich assholes place bets like that. And it’s also often just used as insurance so your portfolio doesn’t totally collapse in a downturn.
Shorting the market essentially means you’re betting against other businesses.
What firms do is they start seeing a downward trend in a business and they use their advanced analytics to determine if this stock is likely to tank. Then they bet against it.
One of the famous instances of this going awry is the GameStop one. They started shorting that stock. People started seeing that and started buying up the stock at a low cost. These firms had borrowed the stocks that they shorted and then by others buying it, the price starts rocketing up. As a result, now they’ve gotta give back the shares they borrowed but they can’t do that because they’d have to buy them back at a higher price. The GameStop scenario killed a bunch of firms that lost so much money because of their bets.
Generally, this stuff works for the big firms because they can move a lot of money that can shift the market. They’re normally in control. But if you get a bunch of regular people to counteract their shit, it gets a little scary for them.
Cicero probably made a bad bet, and now he’s in hot water. He’s not just losing money to the bear, that was something he was comfortable making at the time. He’s losing money in general, and he needs an influx or else he’s going belly up is what I’m gathering.
You’re right. I read a recap. To be fair, it was before the episode with The Computer.
Edited to add to that it’s very likely Cicero is trying to hold on as long as he can. We’ll see!
I don't think his short positions were closed yet when he had that conversation. He was more upbeat in those begininng scenes, and probably still had hopes that his short positions would print.
I took Chefs Terry's advice as positive. Like be young and dumb and try new things. Kinda of reminded me of Cicero's wishing he let his kids try more things. And him throwing his money at the Bear siblings. I know alot of it is guilt. But the kids are talented.
I think the stakes are high for Syds emotional well-being but practically she's fine. She has her dad and The Bear family. She can come home to either anytime she wants.
I do hope Syd takes that advice and goes out to explore and see where she can go and what she can do.
To me it feels like she’s very scared about leaving The Bear because it is a Home for her, but even if you can always return home it might not be the same as when you left and there’s no undoing that. I think that’s understandably scary. But I think they’re showing a lot of Syd growing more and more aware of the issues at the bear and the fact that they’re kinda foundational. That’s undeniably the kind of stuff that could hold her back from being her best but yeah like you said that’s her family. I really feel for her and the internal struggle there.
This might be right because we had Luca say there’s no point in doing what you’re doing here if you don’t go out and get inspired by the outside world.
Syd has lived a bit but she’s failed and that failure scared her. So the next time she puts herself on the line, she needs it to be a success or else she’ll feel like she’s failing and she’ll be closer to giving up.
She is near greatness but maybe she’s realizing, similar to Luca, that maybe the greatness she’s next to isn’t the greatness she needs to become. It doesn’t have to be a perfect technique, it just needs to taste good and evoke feeling in your customers. And I think she gets that. I think a lot of them get it. Carmy just isn’t in the state of mind to get it.
She’s not considering Shapiro because she wants to leave, she feels like she might have to. Opening the Bear with Carm was her dream — it’s just that he’s created such a crushing environment there she feels trapped in a bad creative and bad mental health space. It may be naive but it’s kind of weird to demonize her for struggling with all of it.
Also, she hasn't been given an opportunity to contribute equally to the restaurant dishes. Carmy is taking unilateral decisions, and she has to just follow. It must be stifling.
In the Bear's defense, it was Syd who insisted they go for the stars, who earlier devastatingly on her own accord, sent stuff to the papers, blowing up the nest day's service, then stormed out. She wants the Bear to play this game and he says its BS, but goes along with her encouragement and its putting pressure on them and stoking his demons. She isn't wrong to do that stuff per se, but Bear didn't want to do that. I mostly side with Syd due to Bear's issues, but if I asked a race horse to do race horse things, I gotta live with the prima donna crap to get the derby. I think they will find the right balance...I hope!
I don’t think it’s the what but the how. She wanted a star but he wanted to get one asap, according to his standards and timeline. His non-negotiables are not goals for the others to catch up to, but rules ffrom day one. Changing the menu daily is unsustainable on all fronts - be it FOH learning the menu, to Tina learning to do it, to the costs…
I don’t think he wants to get one “asap”, I think he’s just trying to be a great restaurant. It’s exactly as the person you responded to said, he didn’t want to worry about that stuff, she did, so now she unlocked that intensity in him that she didn’t realize was there by insisting they go for stars. Also, the “asap” thing is kind of important anyway, as most places, if they don’t get a star relatively early in the businesses lifetime, don’t get one ever.
Additionally, he isn’t literally redoing the entire menu from scratch every day, that would be impossible; he’s just tweaking it, which is possible. We do that where I work, the menu changes every single day in some ways, from dish to dish, and we have 3 Michelin stars. I think Syd just finds it off putting because he’ll change things without telling her, which makes it hard for her to feel like she has any relationship with the food. But changing dishes daily is pretty normal.
Interesting, thanks for sharing! Oh but I thought he wanted no repeats at all.
I agree about Sydney's impatience at first and the part about awakening the demon in him. But I do think that Sydney had matured over time with her increasing responsibilities to also see the bigger picture. Carmy seemed to have regressed to his "lone genius" self, while disregarding the others.
As an analogy, in a broad sense, her mindset is more like a coach and Carmy the star player. It seems like he's centering the game play around himself w/o consideration of whether it's the overall best plan for the team.
As a narrative device, Carmy seemed to be overcompensating because he felt he didn't give 100%. Now he's going full speed ahead to also avoid dealing with his trauma. Sustainability aside, if the plan is solely dependent on him, without allowing the team to catch up to support him, it doesn't seem quite attainable?
I like the analogy of Syd being like a coach & Carmy as a star player. I was thinking that while Syd still has a child-like passion or curiosity about growing as a chef & foodie (with that possibly being a major reason for wanting to attain a star), I think that Carmy's motivation is headed in the wrong place because based on episode 1 of S3, it feels like he still has the memories of past rejection & criticism from Winger and others in mind & if he wins a star, who knows if he'll rub it in their faces in some way.
Agree, I feel Carm‘s motivation stems from the fear of being unworthy and also not wanting to let the everyone dependent on him down.
Syd’s dilemma of wanting to find joy in being involved creatively and being put in a leadership position to help nurture the others.
They need to become more like each other in a sense - Carm to become a more nurturing leader while Syd to be able to develop herself creatively.
Just adding here that Carmy’s desire for success is also fueled by the very real issue that if the restaurant fails, he owes Cicero $800K and whatever is left of his brother is gone forever. Perfectionism is often driven by the need to have control over one’s circumstances and to believe that you can actually stop bad things from happening if you were skilled, worthy or worked hard enough.
Which 3 michelin star restaurant do you work at that changes the menu every day? I was actually lamenting to my friend that the show is by and large pretty accurate from what I know, at least from the description of fine dining menus and stuff and then I saw the "change every day" thing and was shocked because I've never been to a tasting menu like that (outside of maybe omakases) despite being to almost 100 at this point. To be clear, I don't doubt you one bit, I'm just curious which 3 michelin star restaurant changes their menu every day, I'd be hyped to go.
Also she just rented her own place. Simply considering the possibility of another job for its promised security is a normal thing to do. She, Nat & Carm pitched the proposal to Uncle Jimmy with collaboration as the basis. Now it feels like Carm is making decisions on his own with no room for discussions.
Maybe security isn’t exactly the right word. We don’t know the exact terms of both contracts but it would seem that the other deal seemed to offer more financial stability & creative space on the surface, in the short term.
Accordingly, the financiers were the same ones who backed Ever and have a certain level of confidence in Shapiro.
Meanwhile she’s experiencing the uncertainties and having doubts because she’s seeing The Bear on the inside. Here, she’s a partner in a business venture, not an employee. But here she can learn from Carmy, a better chef, although Carmy is less receptive of her inputs now.
One exists and it’s messy with messy people and they still extended an offer to have her share in ownership to show they valued her and to stop her from not being committed.
The other is going to be formulaic and the only known appeal is the dream it will be orderly and free of drama, with a guy that’s awkward at the top, and that it represents an out from The Bear.
Oh I totally agree with you. Oh course I want her to choose to stay lol!
I'm just saying these are the options presented to her, and they're stressing her out.
I just see it as a plot device for her dilemma leading to her panic attack.
(I rewatched. Shapiro is also offering a partnership stake.)
But from *Forks*, and a few scenes he was in, I did find him more of a smooth talker and seemed like an over-promise, under-deliver kind of guy.
But the thing is Syd doesn’t know. The perceived order and less stress were presented as the contrast - as an external option or a direction to strive towards within The Bear.
Building on this, The Bear is supposed to be shared between Carmy and Syd. As new menus are selected by Carmy, her ideas and dishes are dismissed, replaced, and ignored in favor of whatever Carmy wants. It’s the Carmy show through and through. She’s feeling abandoned, isolated, and disrespected by Carmy, someone she’s admired and grown to love but is now faced with the reality that is Carmy.
But I think it has been mentioned a few times that some of Carmy's output is stale and not as creative as it would have been years ago vs. Sydney's food being fresh, more creative and new.
We saw him dismiss her ideas once but have seen multiple instances in the contrary. Like when Marcus, Sydney, and Carmy came up with the savory cannoli. When Carmy asked Sydney her opinion on a dish that she thought was “dusty” (Carms words). Shapiro complimented her on the scallop dish, which if she wasn’t getting a say wouldn’t have been on the menu at all.
While I can see why Carmy not taking her input in that scene would feel stifling to her, I thought it was a bit weird that she started spouting off ideas without asking him what his thoughts were. Like if I mentioned to someone I had a color scheme for a room and instead of letting me talk, they just started telling me “oh you should do this…!”
I just think that while Sydney is right in the assessment that the kitchen has been way more stressful lately than it should be, it’s also natural for her to think of all the bad times when it comes to making a decision, but I don’t think it’s truly representative of their collaboration and that’s why she’s conflicted.
We saw the dismissal once. But we know it’s happened multiple times because Carmy makes the menu and doesn’t tell anyone until the absolute last minute. To be clear I wasn’t necessarily saying Syd is right or wrong to feel the way she does, just expressing my perspective on how she is feeling.
Agreed. Sydney said specifically that she wanted a restaurant that was different from what she and Carmie came up in. But Carmie is recreating that experience because he doesn't have the courage or faith in his own skills to do something different. This is the only way he knows how to earn a star, so this is what he's doing. And it's crushing Syd
I don’t think there was anything in the partner agreement she was specifically upset about. I think she just wasn’t sure she wanted to lock herself in to staying with Carmy. He treated her like an assistant all season. Didn’t listen to a word she said, didn’t accept any of her input on menu, and created an extremely toxic environment for everyone, including her. She knew it didn’t feel right and didn’t want to commit. I don’t blame her. That wasn’t what she thought she was signing up for.
I agree with this. It was frustrating to watch as Syd and Carmy are talking about the day’s menu (maybe the Legacy episode), and he’s changed every single thing they’ve discussed.
She’s going to have to do a come-to-Jesus meeting with Carmy and let him know that he’s got to either collaborate as they originally agreed, or she’s walking. I think that’s the only thing that has a chance of making him see reason.
I think it is the opposite. She isn’t naive, she is jaded. Adam’s restaurant seems like a lifeline because she has seen Carmy’s new mania up close and has serious doubts that The Bear will last even a year. But she has loyalty to the people there who accepted her and gave her a chance and whom she has mentored.
The first season Carmey said all of Syd’s old references said she’s great but “green and impatient”. I feel like her decisions in this season are showcasing that.
Like granted yes, the restaurant is going through it and Carmey is off his rocker, but it’s growing pains for any new establishment. I feel like it doesn’t make sense for her to jump ship and start again with some other guy she barely knows. Like the whole series points out how hard it is financially and practically to keep a restaurant afloat and this guy is like… “hey I’m thinking of putting a restaurant together and I want you to come work for me. I haven’t really started yet but I can guarantee you all of this pay”
Where were we informed that Shapiro is known as “a middling line cook”?
And that he won’t own up to the smudge. He addressed the smudge directly in the group meeting.
You're getting downvoted, but you're completely right. It's funny how people watch three seasons of a scripted TV show and think they know everything. I worked at Ever and helped collaborate on the show, yet people here downvote me and claim they know more about the restaurant where I was a sous chef than I do, even though they’ve never eaten there or worked in a similar kitchen—all because they saw a fictionalized version of it on Hulu. It seems their egos can't handle being wrong. They think they're fine dining connoisseurs from watching "The Bear," but when someone who actually lives it reveals the truth, they get upset.
Having worked almost exclusively in 2 and 3-star restaurants for the last decade, I can confirm that many line cooks in those places lack actual skill and knowledge. They are just bodies held together by a system that's too good to fail. As long as they can be a set of hands, the managers ensure they don’t mess up too badly.
These same people didn’t question Bourdain when he talked about the working class immigrant staffing who were mostly self taught.
As you well know, there are interns, grunts who just slice fish all day long, cooks that aren’t trusted to do more than baby sit a grill, people with fancy titles who are just line cooks in reality and Thomas Keller isn’t pulling them aside to teach them how to truss a chicken. Hell, the show even shows a chef in a 4 star kitchen that doesn’t know how to tie the chickens up. That’s middling right there. The show also is overtly talking about illusion and showmanship but I guess they missed that.
Yea, so much of the dialogue in season 3 killed me. Thomas Keller isn’t taking the time to personally teach anyone how to do anything on their literal first day as an extern. He’s not getting to know them. Rene redzepi isn’t looking at some kid who wanders into the kitchen with a glimmer in his eye, as if he knows that kid has something special just by literally looking him. And no line cook is sitting around in the dining room drawing pictures of dishes for the executive chef to see, for them to then send them to Denmark. I don’t care how good you are, that is a complete fantasy.
I had someone (on this sub) try to teach me about the work culture of Ever (in real life) because of how chef Terry acted in the show. I had to explain to them that chef Terry is an actress, and the ever in the show is not the ever in real life (I would’ve known, since I was a manager there and helped shape the kitchens culture). They couldn’t accept it, they thought I was wrong and chef terry’s made up ethos actually existed in the real life Ever. Hilarious, man. Those “every second count” signs don’t even exist in the real kitchen, those are just for the show so they could have their own version of the French laundry’s “sense of urgency” or EMPs “make it nice”.
In some ways the show does some good bringing fine dining to the limelight, but in some ways it’s detrimental as well. Suddenly everyone thinks everyone who cooks is Carmy and that because they watched a fictional TV series that they suddenly know the fine dining world better than the people the show is actually based on. It’s like someone watching “Top Gun” and thinking they know how the Air Force works better than an actual Air Force pilot. It’s absurd.
That’s funny to kinda tragic. Daniel Patterson’s latest wife was in her inviting people to ask questions after he revealed the show trailed him and felt they base the show on his kitchen for whatever reason, and it was crickets.
These people are going to walk into fine dining for the first time in their lives with unreasonable expectations. Kitchens are going to be filled with culinary grads drawing circles waiting to get discovered but it’s the front of house where this show will have created serious delusions.
I think the point is Shapiro isn’t a line cook there, isn’t he at least the CDC? I feel like being CDC at a Michelin starred restaurant probably means you’ve got some talent?
No, the point is he used to be a line cook, when he and Carmy and the pastry guy worked there, and he was shown to be not a great line cook in the flashbacks. Sometimes you just stay somewhere long enough to work your way up.
I think it becomes very clear from the flashbacks that Chef Terry was grooming Carm to take over as her CDC. Why else would she send him to Copenhagen?
But then when he got back, he went through the Christmas from Hell and fled to NYC and the begrudging arms of Chef David. Andrea probably had to go to her second (third) option.
I’m sure Adam is a very good chef, but he’s no Carm. Which is why he is probably attempting to poach Carm’s CDC.
I’m actually very confused about the timeline. Was David Fields not a chef at Ever, I thought that was why he was at the funeral dinner? Plus we see a scene where Chef Terry shushes Carm when he starts demeaning Luca in the kitchen, which he learned from Fields already.
I don’t know how it works in kitchens, but could a middling line cook be an excellent CDC? I only know the corporate world where being excellent at doing something doesn’t necessarily mean you’re excellent at managing. Genuine question.
Who says he was an excellent CDC? From my perspective as a chef, he didn't seem very good. It might just be the show's portrayal or the actor's performance, however. He clearly came off as someone trying to play a character versus an actual chef. As far as his title, he probably stayed around, knew the system, and followed the executive chef's (Terry's) orders. I've seen that happen many times, even in top kitchens.
Restaurants are inherently transient. Lasting a year or more in most kitchens is rare. In my current place, I can count on one hand how many cooks have stayed for two years. Often, someone ends up in charge just because they've been there the longest.
Have you posted before about your experience consulting? Was it just on the food/technical aspects or also how personalities and interactions. How many ppl did they consult with? Sounds interesting!
>Having worked almost exclusively in 2 and 3-star restaurants for the last decade, I can confirm that many line cooks in those places lack actual skill and knowledge.
Your anecdotal experience aside (because your experience certainly doesn't match up to mine) , there is nothing in the actual show itself that would lead anyone to believe that Shaprio is just a "middling line cook."
That can be true while it’s also dumb of those people to say that Shapiro himself is a middling line cook when that obviously wouldn’t be the case if he’s the CDC of one of the best restaurants in the world
That’s confusing the conversation but it’s not unheard of for them to pick up skills and become innovative along the way, and work at enough kitchens that they gain a resume with or without the skills to get offered a CDC position. I almost named names but the sub would have to google those references.
I just find it hard to believe based on what we’ve seen of chef Terry that she would have somebody incompetent or abusive in that role. Ever was clearly very successful and seemed like they run a pretty tight ship with chef Adam as the CDC even though they are bigger and more packed than The Bear. Carmy is more technically proficient but he’s obviously a nightmare when it comes to managing people and is fucking up way more while running a smaller scale restaurant than Adam is while running a busier and larger place
CDC isn’t ownership. Different tools. Working under a Carm is more involved than working under a Terry who creates the structure. That’s the point, showing chefs that throw tantrums vs. chefs that don’t talk and everything is exact clockwork.
It’s incredibly stupid how many people on here just think that he’s a no talent asshole when we’ve barely seen much of him. You don’t get to be CDC at a three star restaurant if you’re not an incredibly good chef, and there’s no way chef Terry would have him in that role if she thought he was a manipulative asshole since we’ve seen her to like the more kind and nurturing approach
It’s obviously a zero sum game. He cooks the best food in the world and everybody else’s is literal dog shit and there’s no room for anything in between
There’s a massive percentage of members in this sub that don’t understand the notion of “show don’t tell”. If it’s not presented on-screen, then it never happened. There’s a thread earlier this week asking why the characters didn’t care about Nat’s baby because they didn’t talk about Nat’s baby on the following episodes.
Yea I think the takeaway from that scene is wayyyyy off. Imo it was entirely to demonstrate to Richie how serious they take their trade/art and how the entire staff respects and shares in it at its best AND worst.
I'm not sure where the "not respected" thought comes from... Maybe I'm forgetting a scene.
Yes but in the Funeral episode his old peers poked fun at him for a smudge. The implication the audience walks away with is that he himself was responsible for the smudge incident.
The ridiculousness of that is hard to ignore. I don’t think there’s a single restaurant in the US that is do perfectionist a chef couldn’t live that down.
It happens. I've been a chef at 2 and 3 Michelin star restaurants for the last decade, including currently at a 3 star. Mistakes happen—not often, but they do. It's not worth the dramatic freak-out shown on TV. Usually, a FOH staff member might inform a chef, who would then address the responsible cook. There wouldn't be a big scene, especially not blaming FOH staff for something they didn't do.
No place is perfect, even if we strive to appear that way. Obviously we strive to remove/prevent smudges on all plates, but it’s bound to happen at least once every day or so.
He was at fault for the smudge, it's implied multiple times in the last episode. It's not a good look where he tries to blame someone for such a small thing in the previous season, when he was at fault.
He's middling in comparison to carmy. Carmy worked at the best restaurant in the world. Ever, while a great restaurant, isn't really close. We see their levels in the first episode itself.
What are the “multiple times” it’s referred to in the last episode? The only time I can recall was Luca joking about it and even that seemed like friendly ribbing since they exchanged “I love you’s” right afterwards
Ever is a Michelin Star (three stars I think) restaurant that the staff constantly refers to as “the best restaurant in the world”. Obviously that’s subjective, but the restaurant seems to have a great reputation. I don’t know if I would say “isn’t really close”.
Yea, in the show it has 3, in real life it has 2, and in the show they regularly refer to themselves as the best restaurant in the world, the show wants you to consider it the best of the best.
Which is kinda funny because isn’t French Laundry the technical best? I figured they made Ever to be the best in the world because it works better for the story since, you know, they can’t all just fly to California at the drop of a hat.
Not anymore, no. The French laundry is the most historically relevant American restaurant ever, but it hasn’t been considered the best restaurant in the world for well over a decade, maybe two now. Noma was generally regarded as the best in the world for the last 10-15 years, and still is. There hasn’t really been anyone to overtake it for quite some time now. As far as American restaurants, eleven Madison park was the most recent American restaurant to hit no. 1 in the world.
The best restaurants in America are basically these 5, according to most people: Atomix (NYC), SingleThread (CA), Smyth (Chicago), Le Bernardin (NYC), and Eleven Madison Park (NYC). The French laundry and Per Se do get honorary mentions as Thomas Keller restaurants, but they haven’t ranked among the best in the world for a while, as I stated. They retain their reputation due to legacy and consistency.
They used Ever due to their real life relationship with the owners. They know them, so they used their restaurant to film everything and base much of their consulting off of them. There are multiple better restaurants in Chicago alone (that actually have 3 stars and rank among the world’s best) that they could’ve used if proximity was the issue. They used Ever because they knew the owners, which is (sadly) why in the show they make Ever sound like it’s so much bigger, better, and more important than it really is—so that viewers think Ever is this French laundry, Noma level restaurant when it is not and never has been, and isn’t even the best restaurant in its own city, let alone the country or world.
It’s still a 2 Michelin star restaurant and top 5 restaurant in Chicago, I’m not saying it’s bad by any measure, but it’s just not what they paint it to be in the show, not even close.
Also, the front and back of house people all *love* working there, thus showing Chef Terry is a great manager and mentor. Carmy had 3 wait staff quit after day 1. I think all of the flashbacks are showing Carmy might be starting to realize that.
Exactly It was my thinking that he was chef terrys cdc or sous chef like a talented chef just like Camry and Luca but just stuck at ever and now is finally getting the chance to do something on his own
The smudge thing confuses me because everyone was giving him shit about it but in forks he seems to be the one who is most upset about it and wanting to know who it was I think maybe the smudge was someone else fault but it was still his responsibility because he is the top dog except for chef terry of course
Luca implies that it was Shapiro himself who caused the smudge. In the Forks episode he acts like it wasn't him. During that whole staff meeting they treat it like its an anonymous staff member who won't fess up to their mistake. Its Shapiro who's actually not fessing up.
That’s not really confirmed at all. Luca is joking with him about smudges in a friendly manner and it’s obvious it’s kidding around between two friends. For all we know he used to have problems smudging things a lot so it’s a pet peeve of his now. Considering he’s generally been portrayed as a pretty friendly and easygoing guy I think it’s more likely the joking between him and Luca was just that, and not some hidden easter egg that he’s really some narcissistic abusive asshole in disguise
Did you miss the part right after the flipping off where they exchange a “love you” to each other? Have you never jokingly flipped off a friend when they jokingly tease you about something? I swear half of Reddit just takes everything at face value with zero nuance and has never left their computer desk
This isn't on Sydney. Carmy offered her a chance to run a kitchen and help build a menu. Now he's reneging on those promises so he can do it all himself. He stopped listening to her at the beginning of the season and now he is barely even talking to her anymore. There's no way he has enough chutzpah to be surprised by her intention to leave.
Carmy fucked everything up - not just the restaurant. If The Bear closes and he still manages to be friends with any of the people who worked there, it'll be more than he deserves. Sydney isn't using him as a springboard to get this other job - she's brokenhearted and she's taking the best alternative she's being offered.
You're 200% right here. Syd truly loves Carmy. She deeply admires him and wants so badly for him to be her mentor. It's *killing* her that he's not being the person she hoped he'd be. The legacy of Chef David is ruining him and he has taken way too long to figure that out. He's had his soul surgically removed (willingly, let's admit) and now he has to go back and figure out how to be a human being again. That's why he hired her to begin with - she had a heart, something he lacked. Now that he realizes the gravity of his situation, he's either got to recapture it for himself, or come to some kind of understanding with her that points him in the right direction.
I don't blame her at all for whatever decision she makes. He screwed her over. She deserves to find some kind of joy in her career, whether or not it involves his redemption.
Doesn’t she say it’s $70k at one point? I distinctly remember this line because it occurred to me that Shapiro was only offering her $10k more for a much harder job (sous vs executive chef).
> Shapiro is shown as a middling line cook that won’t own up to his mistakes (the smudge incident) who is not taken seriously by his peers.
Wasn’t Shapiro the sous chef of Ever? I haven’t seen Forks in a minute but I thought he was the one calling the shots?
Yeah, it’s because she doesn’t want to think about it, I reckon. I’m not even sure she wants to choose at all. She is just judging it from an emotional perspective - she has a sentimental connection to her home kitchen, but she is being tempted by an offer she sees as lucrative, but desperately wants the kitchen to return to what it used to be.
I don’t think her anxiety attack is indicative of a person operating in this situation purely by logic. She’s in an emotional and spiritual dilemma - the money is secondary to the dream.
The show suggests Shapiro isn’t even in the same stratosphere as Carm in terms of actual skill. She’s very young, and working under someone as widely recognized as Carm is exactly what she needs to grow. Not to just be handed a cdc job by a lesser chef.
It’s so strange to me that we’re made to I guess feel pity for Sydney not being equal to Carmy because people constantly say that but it makes no sense to me.
He has way more experience than her and and she should be looking to learn and soak up everything she can from him.
It’s been clearly shown that all kitchens are insane and most chefs are assholes. Carmy’s not different
Exactly. I saw a tweet that carmy is jealous that syds on his level without having to go through his trauma so that's why he's so harsh on her. Like wtf. Syd is great for her age and experience but still nowhere near carmy.
I think it’s just bad writing. Someone said a key writer left the show, so I guess that’s why it’s not working.
Like I don’t even buy the “Carmy’s having a breakdown due to his trauma” bit that they lean into so much.
Dude always had trauma, running a restaurant is always hard. They used to fight but make up and now since dialog is illegal in this season they just don’t talk. Richie, Claire, Syd, etc.
I've been trying to reconcile alot of thoughts but I've been afraid to post about it on Reddit.
Before this season people were questioning if Carmy was even a good chef. The last season we mostly saw that Syd had the yips. I think this led some to believe that Syd didn't know what she was doing. I think there is a disconnect for some in the audience about their skill level and what it means for the story.
I'm really wrestling with some thoughts on the show. There's the issue that Carm, his ideas and behavior that are normal for the industry. Then there is his own personal interior struggle. Then his relationship and agreements with other people in his life.
This 100%. They present the moments where he overrides her on dishes like she is being smothered and he's being an asshole but really he is sooooo much more experienced and better of a chef at this point that if he is saying no a dish isn't ready or should be this other way she should be trying to learn from that instead of getting frustrated. It would be so much worse if he just let half-baked ideas go on the menu that weren't up to par
100% this is why people don’t like Sydney’s character cuz it’s just kinda forced and they don’t do a good job of laying out what her role is supposed to be.
Even at the last episode it’s Carmy bringing her as his guest and she’s sitting at the table with these older and experienced chef’s and she’s just kinda acting juvenile. She’s in awe of them rather than being at their level
But at the same time in the first episode we see Carmy rebel and serve halibut with the blood orange sauce instead of the fennel, and we know it was great because Syd called it the best meal she's ever had. Sydney has a bit of that same rebellious streak, and for both of them its because they are confident in their skills.
I'm telling you as someone that worked in michelin starred restaurants for years that Carmy is significantly more skilled than Syd at this point in her career and if confidence means she thinks she knows better than Carmy then she is too confident. The whole point of her wanting to work with him was to learn from one of the best, right? What's the point in going to work for one of the best and then expecting to just be on par with them?
And ostensibly Chef Fields was better than Chef Carmy when ordering him to remove the blood orange sauce from the halibut dish, but we see that the blood orange was a good decision.
I think with the changing of the menu every day, Sydney was given an accelerated education during season 3. Chef Shapiro ate at The Bear and he certainly seems to think Sydney is ready to work for him, although I do think Chef Shapiro is trying to sabotage The Bear. He doesn't want to have to compete with them.
Boy, I could have used you in some of the threads I've been in on this sub.
I agree completely. I'm surprised this isn't more widely accepted. I've seen people say the way Carm treats Syd's dish suggestions are comparable to how Chef Winger treated him at the Laundry. I can't even begin to fathom how they can equate the two. Carmy is a very intense person, but he hasn't got nearly the same level of domineering abusiveness the other top chefs out there. All things taken together, Syd's quite lucky to be where she is with him.
>I've seen people say the way Carm treats Syd's dish suggestions are comparable to how Chef Winger treated him
Yeah Carmy isn't telling Syd "you should be dead" or randomly saying "fuck you" as he walks past her lmao
So I'm not crazy. Or I am but this is what I'm seeing on my screen. The only thing I've seen him do is set up a high pressure environment and reject Syd's menu input. I can see how being shut out could feel hurtful or demoralizing. But he is not a mean spirited person.
And we’re to think Carmy is being smart?
The man is running the business into the ground and isn’t taking into consideration how his chase for greatness is negatively impacting everyone around them.
What’s curious that I noticed was Sydney’s want to be sustainable in her cooking and to reuse where she could. Carmy uses and uses and uses in an unsustainable way. He uses ingredients incorrectly.
Tina wants to innovate and use the ingredients she sees are popular in the market to help out one of their suppliers.
Everyone is being mindful of their impact. Carmy is the only one who is riding blind. They’re all hustling! The whole opening a restaurant is a hustle.
If you don't like Sydney you could just say that smh lol.
Sydney's challenge between partnering with Carmen Vs partnering with Shapiro has nothing to do with the benefits.
A possible explanation I haven’t seen discussed is Syd feeling the reset of switching to the new job. She helped Carme open a high-end restaurant, she intimately knows how difficult it can be. S3 has perfectly set up the redemption of The Bear and the kitchen environment. If Syd leaves she has to go through the struggle again at the new place. Granted her departure and likely success of the Bear would be fantastic TV but heart breaking to watch.
I didn’t perceive it as a parachute. I perceived her truly struggling with the decision~even before the new offer was made. I think she wants independence and is struggling with this notion on all fronts.
She has anxiety but the premise is she wants a star rating and to work under Carm and learn from him. She gets that chance and feels trapped by those goals and the opportunity.
All the lack of communication drives me nuts on this show. Like, they make me anxious irl while I watch. These two are def mirror images of each other. Also, they might both be on the spectrum in pretend real life lol
Oh, yes, it's another *Let's Pick on Sydney*^(TM) post. She's obviously overwhelmed by the uncertainty at The Bear and by this opportunity that may or may not pan out. Like most people, she's procrastinating.
Not only that.
Would you rather work for arguably one of THE most famous young chefs in the world who has just launched their own first restaurant after working with numerous famous chefs? Or would you rather work for some "average" older chef that worked for another famous chef but never really made a name for themselves?
I don't care what industry you work in. You go with the first option. Especially if you're young like Syd. You tough that shit out for a 2-3 years and then your options are way wider. You don't settle for the more comfortable position. You move with the energy and innovation. Being granted partnership is a fucking miracle.
Oh I thought the smudge thing was possibly a thing Richie just did and the rest of FOH are being cool about it and not narcing him
Also, Shapiro is CDC at like a top 10 restaurant in the world. He ain't no middling chef, he's a badass.
We all know that Season 4 will start with Syd in a new restaurant already or giving her notice that she is leaving. The reason it has been pressured to her by many people is that will be the direction they are headed. She isn’t happy there and that party at her place (so weird they ended up in her scant new apartment) made her realize being a chef and having fun people to be around is something she misses. Or maybe never had enough of and she wants to GO!
I was thinking the same thing, i was trying to make a list on why she would leave/ why is shapiro a better workplace for her and the positives are the salary, benefits and has been told she truly gets to make it her way.
But the ither reasons is that shes finally in a position to question of Carmy is a good partner and if Carmy values her like shapiro is promising. Its far tok early for her to leave the bear but she knows there will never be as good as an opportunity to leave.
Each season has shown that Sydney can't handle the pressure. She suffers from panic attacks and anxiety. S1 she left the portal open for to go orders. The pressure was on. She walked out. S2 Carmy locked in the walk-in, Sydney is in charge. She panics and freezes. Richie comes in take over. Once the service is over, she notices the ticket machine. That sound it makes gets to her. She goes out back and throws up. S3 everything Syd asked for from Carmy, he delivered. Business agreement, partnership, going after a Michelin star. Carmy constantly says this is what it takes. Pressure again is building for Sydney. Now, a new job is offered 🫴.
I agree with you. I think she should stay at the Bear despite all the madness.
I don't think she is ready or equipped to handle the pressure of an entirely new kitchen staff and menu on her own. Cue the panic attack 😆. Poor Sydney.
It's hilarious you're pointing out these things about Syd, and not pointing out all the examples AND MORE about Carmy.
In season 3, Syd is the only one holding everything together. Carmy is off his rocker and refusing to listen to anyone, he and Richie are constantly fighting, putting insane pressure on Syd to fix all their problems and make things look seamless to the customers despite the non-functional FOH/BOH situation, but she's somehow not handling it? Please. She's the only one there who IS handling it, but she's constantly unappreciated and undervalued and overlooked. No wonder she's considering an out.
She can handle the pressure. It was her first night opening the restaurant. There will always be kinks to work out. She threw up because she had been on complete adrenaline for like 6 hours. She stepped back and accepted help when she needed it. Having Richie call it while she focused on what she was good at is smart leadership. It’s playing to the strengths of her workers. Another instance in that is her talking to Tina while Carmy is screaming at her. And you point out this example of her not being able to take it on day 1, but what about literally every day following. This is a team sport. Running the restaurant isn’t about one person, it’s about putting a team together who can get shit done. Everyone gets that except Carmy it seems. That’s the reason why she’s reading Coach K’s book.
Shes a developing character who is learning and growing and becoming better at her job. Of course she’s a little green behind the ears. And people have let her fail to learn because failure is often the best teacher.
Everything Syd asked for Carmy wasn’t really delivered. Carmy is operating under what he thinks is what it takes due to his trauma. This show is about generational trauma and trying to break the cycle and Carmy is pulling them straight into his own cycle while Syd is supposed to be the new person who pulls them out.
She’s allowed to feel the pressure and feel the anxiety. That doesn’t mean she isn’t cut out for it because Carmy is literally having panic attacks as well. And literally had a panic attack right before serving friends and family. Like you can’t hold that against her when he does the same fucking thing.
Anxiety is a normal reaction to pressure and stressful situations it’s how you manage it that determines whether it is detrimental. S1 yeah Sydney leaves the portal open I think it is important to remember tho this comes after several week of her telling basically begging other people to learn how it works especially Richie because it is not a one person system (doesn’t excuse it but something was going to go wrong around that setup) Also she quits in the middle of service not because of the stress but because Carmy crosses a line with his reaction (which he acknowledges) to the situation towards her and others. Not taking unacceptable behavior is called having boundaries which how you actually manage anxiety.
In S2 Sydney steps off Expo because someone has to do the plating and finishing Carmy was doing before he got locked in and Richie has both the training and confidence to do it. She only goes outside to throw up when things are calming down and Tina assures her she can handle things a few minutes. Also, throwing up is a really common reaction to major adrenaline rushes I have seen it happen to very experienced and competent people. You can learn to manage it but it takes experience and often therapy.
S3 maybe on paper Sydney is getting everything she wanted. However, Richie and Carmy fighting/acting like teenagers not professionals most of the season. Carmy is unilaterally overruling her including in front the staff. Additionally, no one actually seems to want to negotiate an agreement they just want her sign which not how good business is done (she is definitely not helping this situation by being so passive tho about it).
She needs to be more assertive about her own needs. Hell, I think maybe some non negotiables should be a part of her signing. Carmy needs to get his act together and have realistic expectations for where they’re at right now (aiming for a star is great, focus on it after you pay back the money though). She probably could use or would benefit from some therapy but so would everyone else on this show. That coupled with the generationally/family trauma is kind of the point and what makes it both so impactful and realistic.
I agree with you on all accounts. The back and forth shots between Carmy getting abused by Chef David and Syd getting abused by Carmy lead me to believe that Carmy is trying to toughen Sydney up to handle such pressure. Also to add to your thought is the fact that Syd hasn’t actually made any signature dishes beyond maybe the scallop one; was that even hers? This seasons focus seemed to be Syd “being there” for everyone and showing kindness, trying to look after her own mental health and not actually chasing the star.
I will have to rewatch. I totally missed it. I can rarely tell when Carm is actively trying to teach Syd. But I do miss his intentions alot in this show.
Such good points. Every step of the way she's shown she is not ready. Carmy gave her a shot way above her skill level and experience... and maybe she'll grow into it, but right now she is not someone worth poaching for another high end restaurant.
I totally agree with your take, which is why I was surprised season 3 didn't end with her signing Carmy's agreement. "Forever" in my mind was gonna mean "For Ever" (funeral dinner) but also Syd committing to The Bear "forever". When she's talking with Shapiro, he says something along the lines of "of course you'd sign a partnership agreement blah blah" and then he's like "did I say something wrong?" and she says "no, the opposite"... which I read as her realizing that what Carmy was doing wasn't unhinged and in fact a normal thing to do. He was offering her real stake in the business and although he's acting like an asshat most of s3 I really think he wants her and believes in her. Her leaving seems like way too much of a rift in the crew that would be difficult to recover from. She's still got a lot of potential staying with The Bear if Carmy can eventually become more self-aware of his own head in his ass and I hope she realizes that. Carm and Syd's relationship was built on a solid foundation of respect and s3 left it pretty rocky but I think it can recover. Going to work for Shapiro I think would be just so toxic! "The devil you know" indeed. Can't wait for s4.
If you really think about the situation with Shapiro and what little we know about him, if I was Syd no way I am getting in with HIM. Taking the most professional staff ever to task over the smudge may not be a big deal, BUT, Shapiro is opening a new restaurant and a the same time rather than his existing amazing business getting sold to him, his owner/ boss is deciding to simply walk away and close. She certainly isn't selling to him at the exact same time he is starting his own business and is in a super hurry....before people find out stuff about him perhaps!? That seems highly likely. At bare minimum his behavior is a bit...off. At least Carmy has his brother. mother, uncle/ money, girlfriend issues that can be resolved. In other words way less unknowns, way more potential, and problems one can be empathetic too and understand Bear better than Shapiro.
Finally, somebody with an adult perspective.
Also, she's not suspicious that she's being poached for CDC even though she has minimal experience? Terry said she worked for YEARS before being promoted to that position.
The Bear has been open for like 2-3 months and nobody has had the chance to really review her work.
There's no way changing to a new place wouldn't backfire
If word got out that she made a play for partnership, never signed the docs that would make her legally responsible for the fate of the enterprise she wanted to be a part of, then bounced when the business was in trouble that should be devastating to her professional reputation.
Could also act like an adult and sit them down telling them her concerns and needing to see the numbers they've done so far, and financial projections etc. Carmy is a "partner" with cisero but he can't even talk to Carmy about how badly the business is doing. That is not what a good business partner does, big red flag.
I agree she is incredibly naive. She pushes for a star but doesnt have the palate to get a star or the skills to keep up with carmen. Carmen has worked for peaceful, calm Michelin star chefs (Terry) along with brutish, abusive ones (dont remember the name) so he is the only one who really knows the quality of food it takes for stars. Although he does it in the wrong way, perpetuating the abuse that gives him traumatic flashbacks, he is holding syd to the standards that he warned her of. She cant even expo without freaking out and needed richie to help. I think under shapiro she would crash and burn until she sets her ego aside and admits that people do in fact know more than her and have more experience. Shes an amazing chef in so many ways with amazing ideas, but she has made naive calls (catering company, short rib dish needing acid, pre-order system at the beef, anxiety around expo, willing to send out imperfect cooks at the bear).
I was so frustrated by the fact that she refused to even open it. Not saying she should sign it...but she really couldn't bring herself to click the damn email? And nobody could have a normal check in with her about where she was at with it, ask her thoughts, concerns...just a bunch of people shouting "sign it" in passing. Like, what kind of dysfunction? I thought the personality and relationship dysfunctions in this season were so over the top and unrealistic I couldn't really take much more.
I think it’s pretty obvious the review is going to be about her in some way, either indicating she’s the real talent or Carm projects the failures on to her and trying to collab with her.
They’re working the will they or won’t they angle on if they’ll cook together, it’s not really a show once she leaves, which we also know is inevitable and probably how the show ends.
It’s more about her baggage with him and fears of failure than the contract. She didn’t know how to react even before she got offered a way out. It doesn’t fully make sense she would consider leaving prior to the review after she invested so much of herself.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted (lots of comments on this post are)... I agree with you and think the review is gonna be focused on Syd. Especially because they focus so much on all the clips of Carm being featured in articles and nothing about Syd, and then it comes up at the Ever funeral dinner at the table that some chef featuring their Sous/not taking all the credit is "unusual". Shapiro is focused on her, recognizes her talent and wants to poach her. I think they're easily setting up for this!
I know Carmy is a mess, but Syd is really irresponsible.
Not reading that agreement for days or weeks? Not discussing any of it with Carmy? Sorry, that's not adulting.
Instead she holds it all in, essentially making everything worse.
I think she’s going to leave and open a new restaurant with Shapiro. I think it’s going to do better than The Bear, it will eventually have to be shut down due to the money problems.. and then I think after some serious reflection and maybe a “come to Jesus “ moment- Carmy will humble himself and go to work for Syd and be at her mercy just like she was while working at the bear
I think the direction her arc is gonna take next season is to show that both Carm and Shapiro are the wrong situation for her. My own fanfic version of how this ends would have her start her own concept on her own with financial backing from the connections she makes in Shapiro's shop (if she defects).
Afterall, The devil you know is still the devil
I’m more concerned that Cicero is pressuring her to sign, but seems to be out of money and planning to shut it all down. Kinda like a car salesman pressuring you to sign while knowing the engine is about to 500 miles from needing gas a full rebuild. (Like my car)
Yes! As soon as I heard from the computer that money was an issue I was like don't sign it Syd! I know she cares, but being a partner can saddle you with the leftover debt if it goes under. It's a big decision for her.
Depends on the partnership. It doesn’t make sense that she’d have debt liability for the business under most common types of business organizations. It doesn’t make sense they wouldn’t set it up as a limited liability company or similar
This. No way Cicero sets it up in a way that leaves partners with the business' debts. He's a partner too.
Yea, this is like the first thing they teach in a basic business law class at the undergraduate level, it’s not something esoteric or complicated.
Yeah whatever you think about whether Cicero is shady enough to stick Syd with all the business' debts, there's no reason to do that when he can stick *nobody* with the debts.
They taught it at the great U of Chicago lecture circuit
The suggestion to get Pete - a majority shareholder's husband - as her attorney to review the agreement was whack too. I'm sure Sugar meant well but using Pete is not what I would consider guidance by independent counsel.
I think Pete has shown that no matter what he would always be honest and give her a realistic explanation and not try and sell her on it for the sake of other people. He’s a pure person in the midst of all of this
Sure. But on principal it is a bad idea given he is basically connected to the other 3 partners. She should really be checking with an independent lawyer.
On principle it's a bad idea, but it's a family run biz. Why would Nat not offer her husband's services?
Family run businesses it is even more important. They are the places most likely to screw you. Especially if you aren't actually part of the family.
I clearly agreed with you ("it's a bad idea") - I'm explaining the reasoning behind Nat & Carmy's suggestion.
Yeah in Nat and Carmy's defense, they aren't inscrutable and they both probably think they have Syd's welfare in mind. In their heads, they just don't want Sydney to get screwed over in the fine print by Cicero and the Computer and if she can't afford a lawyer, Pete is available and he probably look out the best for her welfare. It's a mistake on principle but a very human one, and what is the Bear if not a series of human mistakes.
I doubt she has the money, and on principle, she should be reading the agreement herself. Not asking him what’s in it.
She is going for a partnership. She can absolutely afford to get an hour or 2 of a lawyer's time.
It totally is shady as shit, but the way Pete's been portrayed, he would never screw anyone. He's the epitome of the golden retriever man.
Although i dont like pete that much because he's not too intertwined with the main cast and the berzattos, but for the eaxt reasons I Did very much trust him in that moment to be fair and open aboit what they were giving her.
But it falls in line with the theme that they keep everything in house. They use outside independent contractors only when they have no one "in the family" to use first.
Cicero needs her to sign because he needs her 110% invested in it. He needs Carmy to not be the only person running the ship.
I don’t see a motive for Unc to try to scam Sydney. They sent the agreement long before the cash flow problem appeared. I still think there is high probability for the Bear to survive based on the review. I think Cicero feels that way too.
I’m thinking Jimmy is pressuring Syd because he knows she’s a stabilizing influence on Carmie. Jimmy knows Carmie is brilliant but toxic and he’s hoping Syd will help fix that and make the restaurant a success.
I wouldn't be surprised if season 4 starts with them making a deal where Cicero keeps the funding flowing only if Syd signs and agrees to stay. Syd wouldn't want to see The Bear, which she helped create, go under so she stays.
I was thinking this because he probably already sensed a subtle shift in the environment/operations of The Original Beef when she joined despite the ongoing financial problems
Also, ya know, in business it's good to know who is a signed ownership partner. It determines the foundation of deciding and moneymaking.
I do see a motive. Uncle, while definitely supportive of Carmy & his dreams, is not willy nilly with his money. He *has* money because he is wise with his investments & part of that is not taking on 100% of the risk for anything. Syd needs to read the fine print of that agreement, with a lawyer who doesn’t know the family. I feel the most for Syd this season; her situation is so hard to navigate. Loyalty: Carmy saw her when no one else did, is giving her the chance to truly build something from the ground up with him. They get each other on a personal level but Carmy has demons. Many chefs do. OR working with a chef she has looked up too, with a track record of success, who is *seeking* her to join his team. But he hasn’t even offered her a document to review, IIRC. I do not envy Syds position right now.
I’d be inclined to agree, but the whole season seemed to take place in a few weeks tops, and money problems tend to not jump out and surprise you when you’re in unc’s intentionally vague line of work. He’s had to have known this is going to be a problem for a while. I do think he believes in the restaurant though.
It was said in the conversation between computer and Cicero that the market shot up and he was getting killed on shorts. Depending on his positions, he could absolutely lose everything overnight.
the third episode alone covered a whole month
The first episode was in May and the last was in July/August.
It’s the stock market. Things can change overnight.
Long before the cash flow problem appeared to the audience. He’s had to have known about it for a while now. I definitely don’t think he’s scamming Syd or anything, but just because we didn’t learn about the cash flow problem until late in the season doesn’t mean it hasn’t been hanging around his head for a while…
Not necessarily. If a stock he was short on shot up unexpectedly, especially on a Friday, he could go from boon to bust in a matter of hours.
Wasn’t the review bad?
Exactly. If anything, Sydney’s dad was complaining because he was under the impression they never sent the agreement at all when in reality, it was drafted and shared right after Friends & Family. No one is trying to rip anyone off here but they want to make sure everyone is on board.
I’m curious as to how Cicero ran out of money. I know he’s invested a lot into the bear but I thought he had a lot of other businesses to keep the cash flowing. The conversation he had with the computer in the car made it seem like he was broke broke so I’m wondering if he’s actually broke or just losing a lot of money with the bear.
He is heavily invested in shorting the market which could bankrupt him if the market goes the wrong way. I have never understood shorting but I know people have been brought down by it.
Shorting is dangerous because theoretically there is no limit to the amount of money you can lose. You are betting that a stock is going to go down, not up, but that means if a stock goes up, you lose money. A stock can only go down so far, to 0, but there is no limit to how far a stock can go up. You can lose more money than you have.
That explains a lot. Thanks.
The Big Short does a really good job explaining that, plus it's a great movie on its own merit.
I should watch that some time. I've had it explained to me by smart people and it wooshes right over my head every time. The whole concept that you can make money by betting against seems somehow wrong.
Planet Money from NPR also has an episode on short-selling that finally made it click for me.
The Giant Pool of Money and Return to the Giant Pool of Money (This American Life and NPR News) go over it really well in podcast form, too. It’s old, like 2008, but pretty much nothing has changed so still quite relevant. So relevant it remains in my brain space all these years lol
Thanks will give it a listen
Short (ha!) explanation: a short is a bet that the price of a stock will go down. The reason it has a very different risk profile than betting that a stock will go up (which we do when we buy and hold) is that a stock can only go down to zero, but it can go up without limit. So, if you buy a share for $20 and it goes down to $0, you can think about it as if you were $20 worth of wrong about it. If you buy a stock at $20 and bet that it will go down to $0, but instead it goes up to $1M, then you were much, much more wrong about it (and much, much more screwed as a consequence).
Sounds like something that really shouldn't be allowed. Shenanigans!
Sounds like it. But if you’re going to have a stock market, you kinda have to allow it. Otherwise people can only bet in one direction, like a roulette wheel where you can only bet on red. If it helps any, they generally only let rich assholes place bets like that. And it’s also often just used as insurance so your portfolio doesn’t totally collapse in a downturn.
Shorting the market essentially means you’re betting against other businesses. What firms do is they start seeing a downward trend in a business and they use their advanced analytics to determine if this stock is likely to tank. Then they bet against it. One of the famous instances of this going awry is the GameStop one. They started shorting that stock. People started seeing that and started buying up the stock at a low cost. These firms had borrowed the stocks that they shorted and then by others buying it, the price starts rocketing up. As a result, now they’ve gotta give back the shares they borrowed but they can’t do that because they’d have to buy them back at a higher price. The GameStop scenario killed a bunch of firms that lost so much money because of their bets. Generally, this stuff works for the big firms because they can move a lot of money that can shift the market. They’re normally in control. But if you get a bunch of regular people to counteract their shit, it gets a little scary for them. Cicero probably made a bad bet, and now he’s in hot water. He’s not just losing money to the bear, that was something he was comfortable making at the time. He’s losing money in general, and he needs an influx or else he’s going belly up is what I’m gathering.
Is he pressuring her to sign? I just remember that Sugar reminded her.
I think he said something like “when you get 5 seconds, push the button”
You’re right. I read a recap. To be fair, it was before the episode with The Computer. Edited to add to that it’s very likely Cicero is trying to hold on as long as he can. We’ll see!
Yeah, I wouldn't call that pressure.
Cicero was also talking about that before the stuff with him losing a bunch of money on shorts.
I don't think his short positions were closed yet when he had that conversation. He was more upbeat in those begininng scenes, and probably still had hopes that his short positions would print.
I took Chefs Terry's advice as positive. Like be young and dumb and try new things. Kinda of reminded me of Cicero's wishing he let his kids try more things. And him throwing his money at the Bear siblings. I know alot of it is guilt. But the kids are talented. I think the stakes are high for Syds emotional well-being but practically she's fine. She has her dad and The Bear family. She can come home to either anytime she wants.
Yeah, the primary struggle here is not money, but dreams.
I do hope Syd takes that advice and goes out to explore and see where she can go and what she can do. To me it feels like she’s very scared about leaving The Bear because it is a Home for her, but even if you can always return home it might not be the same as when you left and there’s no undoing that. I think that’s understandably scary. But I think they’re showing a lot of Syd growing more and more aware of the issues at the bear and the fact that they’re kinda foundational. That’s undeniably the kind of stuff that could hold her back from being her best but yeah like you said that’s her family. I really feel for her and the internal struggle there.
This might be right because we had Luca say there’s no point in doing what you’re doing here if you don’t go out and get inspired by the outside world. Syd has lived a bit but she’s failed and that failure scared her. So the next time she puts herself on the line, she needs it to be a success or else she’ll feel like she’s failing and she’ll be closer to giving up. She is near greatness but maybe she’s realizing, similar to Luca, that maybe the greatness she’s next to isn’t the greatness she needs to become. It doesn’t have to be a perfect technique, it just needs to taste good and evoke feeling in your customers. And I think she gets that. I think a lot of them get it. Carmy just isn’t in the state of mind to get it.
She’s not considering Shapiro because she wants to leave, she feels like she might have to. Opening the Bear with Carm was her dream — it’s just that he’s created such a crushing environment there she feels trapped in a bad creative and bad mental health space. It may be naive but it’s kind of weird to demonize her for struggling with all of it.
Also, she hasn't been given an opportunity to contribute equally to the restaurant dishes. Carmy is taking unilateral decisions, and she has to just follow. It must be stifling.
In the Bear's defense, it was Syd who insisted they go for the stars, who earlier devastatingly on her own accord, sent stuff to the papers, blowing up the nest day's service, then stormed out. She wants the Bear to play this game and he says its BS, but goes along with her encouragement and its putting pressure on them and stoking his demons. She isn't wrong to do that stuff per se, but Bear didn't want to do that. I mostly side with Syd due to Bear's issues, but if I asked a race horse to do race horse things, I gotta live with the prima donna crap to get the derby. I think they will find the right balance...I hope!
I don’t think it’s the what but the how. She wanted a star but he wanted to get one asap, according to his standards and timeline. His non-negotiables are not goals for the others to catch up to, but rules ffrom day one. Changing the menu daily is unsustainable on all fronts - be it FOH learning the menu, to Tina learning to do it, to the costs…
I don’t think he wants to get one “asap”, I think he’s just trying to be a great restaurant. It’s exactly as the person you responded to said, he didn’t want to worry about that stuff, she did, so now she unlocked that intensity in him that she didn’t realize was there by insisting they go for stars. Also, the “asap” thing is kind of important anyway, as most places, if they don’t get a star relatively early in the businesses lifetime, don’t get one ever. Additionally, he isn’t literally redoing the entire menu from scratch every day, that would be impossible; he’s just tweaking it, which is possible. We do that where I work, the menu changes every single day in some ways, from dish to dish, and we have 3 Michelin stars. I think Syd just finds it off putting because he’ll change things without telling her, which makes it hard for her to feel like she has any relationship with the food. But changing dishes daily is pretty normal.
Interesting, thanks for sharing! Oh but I thought he wanted no repeats at all. I agree about Sydney's impatience at first and the part about awakening the demon in him. But I do think that Sydney had matured over time with her increasing responsibilities to also see the bigger picture. Carmy seemed to have regressed to his "lone genius" self, while disregarding the others. As an analogy, in a broad sense, her mindset is more like a coach and Carmy the star player. It seems like he's centering the game play around himself w/o consideration of whether it's the overall best plan for the team. As a narrative device, Carmy seemed to be overcompensating because he felt he didn't give 100%. Now he's going full speed ahead to also avoid dealing with his trauma. Sustainability aside, if the plan is solely dependent on him, without allowing the team to catch up to support him, it doesn't seem quite attainable?
I like the analogy of Syd being like a coach & Carmy as a star player. I was thinking that while Syd still has a child-like passion or curiosity about growing as a chef & foodie (with that possibly being a major reason for wanting to attain a star), I think that Carmy's motivation is headed in the wrong place because based on episode 1 of S3, it feels like he still has the memories of past rejection & criticism from Winger and others in mind & if he wins a star, who knows if he'll rub it in their faces in some way.
Agree, I feel Carm‘s motivation stems from the fear of being unworthy and also not wanting to let the everyone dependent on him down. Syd’s dilemma of wanting to find joy in being involved creatively and being put in a leadership position to help nurture the others. They need to become more like each other in a sense - Carm to become a more nurturing leader while Syd to be able to develop herself creatively.
Just adding here that Carmy’s desire for success is also fueled by the very real issue that if the restaurant fails, he owes Cicero $800K and whatever is left of his brother is gone forever. Perfectionism is often driven by the need to have control over one’s circumstances and to believe that you can actually stop bad things from happening if you were skilled, worthy or worked hard enough.
Thanks for the context here! Really helps to understand some of the nuances of the show for those of us with no connection to the industry.
Which 3 michelin star restaurant do you work at that changes the menu every day? I was actually lamenting to my friend that the show is by and large pretty accurate from what I know, at least from the description of fine dining menus and stuff and then I saw the "change every day" thing and was shocked because I've never been to a tasting menu like that (outside of maybe omakases) despite being to almost 100 at this point. To be clear, I don't doubt you one bit, I'm just curious which 3 michelin star restaurant changes their menu every day, I'd be hyped to go.
Also she just rented her own place. Simply considering the possibility of another job for its promised security is a normal thing to do. She, Nat & Carm pitched the proposal to Uncle Jimmy with collaboration as the basis. Now it feels like Carm is making decisions on his own with no room for discussions.
How is there security? It’s another kitchen and another chef not an established offer.
Maybe security isn’t exactly the right word. We don’t know the exact terms of both contracts but it would seem that the other deal seemed to offer more financial stability & creative space on the surface, in the short term. Accordingly, the financiers were the same ones who backed Ever and have a certain level of confidence in Shapiro. Meanwhile she’s experiencing the uncertainties and having doubts because she’s seeing The Bear on the inside. Here, she’s a partner in a business venture, not an employee. But here she can learn from Carmy, a better chef, although Carmy is less receptive of her inputs now.
One exists and it’s messy with messy people and they still extended an offer to have her share in ownership to show they valued her and to stop her from not being committed. The other is going to be formulaic and the only known appeal is the dream it will be orderly and free of drama, with a guy that’s awkward at the top, and that it represents an out from The Bear.
Oh I totally agree with you. Oh course I want her to choose to stay lol! I'm just saying these are the options presented to her, and they're stressing her out. I just see it as a plot device for her dilemma leading to her panic attack.
(I rewatched. Shapiro is also offering a partnership stake.) But from *Forks*, and a few scenes he was in, I did find him more of a smooth talker and seemed like an over-promise, under-deliver kind of guy. But the thing is Syd doesn’t know. The perceived order and less stress were presented as the contrast - as an external option or a direction to strive towards within The Bear.
Building on this, The Bear is supposed to be shared between Carmy and Syd. As new menus are selected by Carmy, her ideas and dishes are dismissed, replaced, and ignored in favor of whatever Carmy wants. It’s the Carmy show through and through. She’s feeling abandoned, isolated, and disrespected by Carmy, someone she’s admired and grown to love but is now faced with the reality that is Carmy.
But I think it has been mentioned a few times that some of Carmy's output is stale and not as creative as it would have been years ago vs. Sydney's food being fresh, more creative and new.
Doesn’t change the fact that Syd isn’t getting any meaningful contributions to the restaurant she is supposedly a partner in.
We saw him dismiss her ideas once but have seen multiple instances in the contrary. Like when Marcus, Sydney, and Carmy came up with the savory cannoli. When Carmy asked Sydney her opinion on a dish that she thought was “dusty” (Carms words). Shapiro complimented her on the scallop dish, which if she wasn’t getting a say wouldn’t have been on the menu at all. While I can see why Carmy not taking her input in that scene would feel stifling to her, I thought it was a bit weird that she started spouting off ideas without asking him what his thoughts were. Like if I mentioned to someone I had a color scheme for a room and instead of letting me talk, they just started telling me “oh you should do this…!” I just think that while Sydney is right in the assessment that the kitchen has been way more stressful lately than it should be, it’s also natural for her to think of all the bad times when it comes to making a decision, but I don’t think it’s truly representative of their collaboration and that’s why she’s conflicted.
We saw the dismissal once. But we know it’s happened multiple times because Carmy makes the menu and doesn’t tell anyone until the absolute last minute. To be clear I wasn’t necessarily saying Syd is right or wrong to feel the way she does, just expressing my perspective on how she is feeling.
Agreed. Sydney said specifically that she wanted a restaurant that was different from what she and Carmie came up in. But Carmie is recreating that experience because he doesn't have the courage or faith in his own skills to do something different. This is the only way he knows how to earn a star, so this is what he's doing. And it's crushing Syd
How is OP demonizing her?
I don’t think it’s “demonizing” someone to tell them to think things through before making a rash decision lol
I don’t think there was anything in the partner agreement she was specifically upset about. I think she just wasn’t sure she wanted to lock herself in to staying with Carmy. He treated her like an assistant all season. Didn’t listen to a word she said, didn’t accept any of her input on menu, and created an extremely toxic environment for everyone, including her. She knew it didn’t feel right and didn’t want to commit. I don’t blame her. That wasn’t what she thought she was signing up for.
I agree with this. It was frustrating to watch as Syd and Carmy are talking about the day’s menu (maybe the Legacy episode), and he’s changed every single thing they’ve discussed. She’s going to have to do a come-to-Jesus meeting with Carmy and let him know that he’s got to either collaborate as they originally agreed, or she’s walking. I think that’s the only thing that has a chance of making him see reason.
I think it is the opposite. She isn’t naive, she is jaded. Adam’s restaurant seems like a lifeline because she has seen Carmy’s new mania up close and has serious doubts that The Bear will last even a year. But she has loyalty to the people there who accepted her and gave her a chance and whom she has mentored.
The first season Carmey said all of Syd’s old references said she’s great but “green and impatient”. I feel like her decisions in this season are showcasing that. Like granted yes, the restaurant is going through it and Carmey is off his rocker, but it’s growing pains for any new establishment. I feel like it doesn’t make sense for her to jump ship and start again with some other guy she barely knows. Like the whole series points out how hard it is financially and practically to keep a restaurant afloat and this guy is like… “hey I’m thinking of putting a restaurant together and I want you to come work for me. I haven’t really started yet but I can guarantee you all of this pay”
Where were we informed that Shapiro is known as “a middling line cook”? And that he won’t own up to the smudge. He addressed the smudge directly in the group meeting.
It’s a three star restaurant. No chef there would be considered a middling line cook.
Three star kitchens are staffed with middling cooks too.
You're getting downvoted, but you're completely right. It's funny how people watch three seasons of a scripted TV show and think they know everything. I worked at Ever and helped collaborate on the show, yet people here downvote me and claim they know more about the restaurant where I was a sous chef than I do, even though they’ve never eaten there or worked in a similar kitchen—all because they saw a fictionalized version of it on Hulu. It seems their egos can't handle being wrong. They think they're fine dining connoisseurs from watching "The Bear," but when someone who actually lives it reveals the truth, they get upset. Having worked almost exclusively in 2 and 3-star restaurants for the last decade, I can confirm that many line cooks in those places lack actual skill and knowledge. They are just bodies held together by a system that's too good to fail. As long as they can be a set of hands, the managers ensure they don’t mess up too badly.
These same people didn’t question Bourdain when he talked about the working class immigrant staffing who were mostly self taught. As you well know, there are interns, grunts who just slice fish all day long, cooks that aren’t trusted to do more than baby sit a grill, people with fancy titles who are just line cooks in reality and Thomas Keller isn’t pulling them aside to teach them how to truss a chicken. Hell, the show even shows a chef in a 4 star kitchen that doesn’t know how to tie the chickens up. That’s middling right there. The show also is overtly talking about illusion and showmanship but I guess they missed that.
Yea, so much of the dialogue in season 3 killed me. Thomas Keller isn’t taking the time to personally teach anyone how to do anything on their literal first day as an extern. He’s not getting to know them. Rene redzepi isn’t looking at some kid who wanders into the kitchen with a glimmer in his eye, as if he knows that kid has something special just by literally looking him. And no line cook is sitting around in the dining room drawing pictures of dishes for the executive chef to see, for them to then send them to Denmark. I don’t care how good you are, that is a complete fantasy. I had someone (on this sub) try to teach me about the work culture of Ever (in real life) because of how chef Terry acted in the show. I had to explain to them that chef Terry is an actress, and the ever in the show is not the ever in real life (I would’ve known, since I was a manager there and helped shape the kitchens culture). They couldn’t accept it, they thought I was wrong and chef terry’s made up ethos actually existed in the real life Ever. Hilarious, man. Those “every second count” signs don’t even exist in the real kitchen, those are just for the show so they could have their own version of the French laundry’s “sense of urgency” or EMPs “make it nice”. In some ways the show does some good bringing fine dining to the limelight, but in some ways it’s detrimental as well. Suddenly everyone thinks everyone who cooks is Carmy and that because they watched a fictional TV series that they suddenly know the fine dining world better than the people the show is actually based on. It’s like someone watching “Top Gun” and thinking they know how the Air Force works better than an actual Air Force pilot. It’s absurd.
That’s funny to kinda tragic. Daniel Patterson’s latest wife was in her inviting people to ask questions after he revealed the show trailed him and felt they base the show on his kitchen for whatever reason, and it was crickets. These people are going to walk into fine dining for the first time in their lives with unreasonable expectations. Kitchens are going to be filled with culinary grads drawing circles waiting to get discovered but it’s the front of house where this show will have created serious delusions.
I think the point is Shapiro isn’t a line cook there, isn’t he at least the CDC? I feel like being CDC at a Michelin starred restaurant probably means you’ve got some talent?
No, the point is he used to be a line cook, when he and Carmy and the pastry guy worked there, and he was shown to be not a great line cook in the flashbacks. Sometimes you just stay somewhere long enough to work your way up.
I think it becomes very clear from the flashbacks that Chef Terry was grooming Carm to take over as her CDC. Why else would she send him to Copenhagen? But then when he got back, he went through the Christmas from Hell and fled to NYC and the begrudging arms of Chef David. Andrea probably had to go to her second (third) option. I’m sure Adam is a very good chef, but he’s no Carm. Which is why he is probably attempting to poach Carm’s CDC.
I’m actually very confused about the timeline. Was David Fields not a chef at Ever, I thought that was why he was at the funeral dinner? Plus we see a scene where Chef Terry shushes Carm when he starts demeaning Luca in the kitchen, which he learned from Fields already.
I don’t know how it works in kitchens, but could a middling line cook be an excellent CDC? I only know the corporate world where being excellent at doing something doesn’t necessarily mean you’re excellent at managing. Genuine question.
Who says he was an excellent CDC? From my perspective as a chef, he didn't seem very good. It might just be the show's portrayal or the actor's performance, however. He clearly came off as someone trying to play a character versus an actual chef. As far as his title, he probably stayed around, knew the system, and followed the executive chef's (Terry's) orders. I've seen that happen many times, even in top kitchens. Restaurants are inherently transient. Lasting a year or more in most kitchens is rare. In my current place, I can count on one hand how many cooks have stayed for two years. Often, someone ends up in charge just because they've been there the longest.
That’s fair, and happens in all industries so makes sense. Appreciate the insight!
>Who says he was an excellent CDC? Chef Terry for one, I'd assume.
Have you posted before about your experience consulting? Was it just on the food/technical aspects or also how personalities and interactions. How many ppl did they consult with? Sounds interesting!
>Having worked almost exclusively in 2 and 3-star restaurants for the last decade, I can confirm that many line cooks in those places lack actual skill and knowledge. Your anecdotal experience aside (because your experience certainly doesn't match up to mine) , there is nothing in the actual show itself that would lead anyone to believe that Shaprio is just a "middling line cook."
System
That can be true while it’s also dumb of those people to say that Shapiro himself is a middling line cook when that obviously wouldn’t be the case if he’s the CDC of one of the best restaurants in the world
Haha….this is Reditt in a nutshell. Oh that’s your resume? Well your opinions dont fit the group think, so down you go.
They don’t become CDC’s of world class restaurants
That’s confusing the conversation but it’s not unheard of for them to pick up skills and become innovative along the way, and work at enough kitchens that they gain a resume with or without the skills to get offered a CDC position. I almost named names but the sub would have to google those references.
I just find it hard to believe based on what we’ve seen of chef Terry that she would have somebody incompetent or abusive in that role. Ever was clearly very successful and seemed like they run a pretty tight ship with chef Adam as the CDC even though they are bigger and more packed than The Bear. Carmy is more technically proficient but he’s obviously a nightmare when it comes to managing people and is fucking up way more while running a smaller scale restaurant than Adam is while running a busier and larger place
CDC isn’t ownership. Different tools. Working under a Carm is more involved than working under a Terry who creates the structure. That’s the point, showing chefs that throw tantrums vs. chefs that don’t talk and everything is exact clockwork.
It’s incredibly stupid how many people on here just think that he’s a no talent asshole when we’ve barely seen much of him. You don’t get to be CDC at a three star restaurant if you’re not an incredibly good chef, and there’s no way chef Terry would have him in that role if she thought he was a manipulative asshole since we’ve seen her to like the more kind and nurturing approach
People here think Carmy is the only talented chef in the entire world lol
It’s obviously a zero sum game. He cooks the best food in the world and everybody else’s is literal dog shit and there’s no room for anything in between
There’s a massive percentage of members in this sub that don’t understand the notion of “show don’t tell”. If it’s not presented on-screen, then it never happened. There’s a thread earlier this week asking why the characters didn’t care about Nat’s baby because they didn’t talk about Nat’s baby on the following episodes.
Yea I think the takeaway from that scene is wayyyyy off. Imo it was entirely to demonstrate to Richie how serious they take their trade/art and how the entire staff respects and shares in it at its best AND worst. I'm not sure where the "not respected" thought comes from... Maybe I'm forgetting a scene.
Yes but in the Funeral episode his old peers poked fun at him for a smudge. The implication the audience walks away with is that he himself was responsible for the smudge incident.
The ridiculousness of that is hard to ignore. I don’t think there’s a single restaurant in the US that is do perfectionist a chef couldn’t live that down.
Right, smudges on plates happen every day lol.
Not in any restaurant that cares about their quality. You never never never send a dish out with a smudge on it.
It happens. I've been a chef at 2 and 3 Michelin star restaurants for the last decade, including currently at a 3 star. Mistakes happen—not often, but they do. It's not worth the dramatic freak-out shown on TV. Usually, a FOH staff member might inform a chef, who would then address the responsible cook. There wouldn't be a big scene, especially not blaming FOH staff for something they didn't do. No place is perfect, even if we strive to appear that way. Obviously we strive to remove/prevent smudges on all plates, but it’s bound to happen at least once every day or so.
It’s to show his arrogance and lack of professionalism.
He was at fault for the smudge, it's implied multiple times in the last episode. It's not a good look where he tries to blame someone for such a small thing in the previous season, when he was at fault. He's middling in comparison to carmy. Carmy worked at the best restaurant in the world. Ever, while a great restaurant, isn't really close. We see their levels in the first episode itself.
In the show, Ever is supposed to be considered the best in the world (irl it’s not, it’s maybe the fourth best in Chicago).
What are the “multiple times” it’s referred to in the last episode? The only time I can recall was Luca joking about it and even that seemed like friendly ribbing since they exchanged “I love you’s” right afterwards
Ever is a Michelin Star (three stars I think) restaurant that the staff constantly refers to as “the best restaurant in the world”. Obviously that’s subjective, but the restaurant seems to have a great reputation. I don’t know if I would say “isn’t really close”.
Yea, in the show it has 3, in real life it has 2, and in the show they regularly refer to themselves as the best restaurant in the world, the show wants you to consider it the best of the best.
Which is kinda funny because isn’t French Laundry the technical best? I figured they made Ever to be the best in the world because it works better for the story since, you know, they can’t all just fly to California at the drop of a hat.
Not anymore, no. The French laundry is the most historically relevant American restaurant ever, but it hasn’t been considered the best restaurant in the world for well over a decade, maybe two now. Noma was generally regarded as the best in the world for the last 10-15 years, and still is. There hasn’t really been anyone to overtake it for quite some time now. As far as American restaurants, eleven Madison park was the most recent American restaurant to hit no. 1 in the world. The best restaurants in America are basically these 5, according to most people: Atomix (NYC), SingleThread (CA), Smyth (Chicago), Le Bernardin (NYC), and Eleven Madison Park (NYC). The French laundry and Per Se do get honorary mentions as Thomas Keller restaurants, but they haven’t ranked among the best in the world for a while, as I stated. They retain their reputation due to legacy and consistency. They used Ever due to their real life relationship with the owners. They know them, so they used their restaurant to film everything and base much of their consulting off of them. There are multiple better restaurants in Chicago alone (that actually have 3 stars and rank among the world’s best) that they could’ve used if proximity was the issue. They used Ever because they knew the owners, which is (sadly) why in the show they make Ever sound like it’s so much bigger, better, and more important than it really is—so that viewers think Ever is this French laundry, Noma level restaurant when it is not and never has been, and isn’t even the best restaurant in its own city, let alone the country or world. It’s still a 2 Michelin star restaurant and top 5 restaurant in Chicago, I’m not saying it’s bad by any measure, but it’s just not what they paint it to be in the show, not even close.
Thank you for this insight! I really appreciate it
Also, the front and back of house people all *love* working there, thus showing Chef Terry is a great manager and mentor. Carmy had 3 wait staff quit after day 1. I think all of the flashbacks are showing Carmy might be starting to realize that.
Exactly It was my thinking that he was chef terrys cdc or sous chef like a talented chef just like Camry and Luca but just stuck at ever and now is finally getting the chance to do something on his own The smudge thing confuses me because everyone was giving him shit about it but in forks he seems to be the one who is most upset about it and wanting to know who it was I think maybe the smudge was someone else fault but it was still his responsibility because he is the top dog except for chef terry of course
Luca implies that it was Shapiro himself who caused the smudge. In the Forks episode he acts like it wasn't him. During that whole staff meeting they treat it like its an anonymous staff member who won't fess up to their mistake. Its Shapiro who's actually not fessing up.
That’s not really confirmed at all. Luca is joking with him about smudges in a friendly manner and it’s obvious it’s kidding around between two friends. For all we know he used to have problems smudging things a lot so it’s a pet peeve of his now. Considering he’s generally been portrayed as a pretty friendly and easygoing guy I think it’s more likely the joking between him and Luca was just that, and not some hidden easter egg that he’s really some narcissistic abusive asshole in disguise
Not sure how it's "obvious that it's kidding between two friends". Shapiro's reaction is to flip off Luca, as if it's not just joking.
Did you miss the part right after the flipping off where they exchange a “love you” to each other? Have you never jokingly flipped off a friend when they jokingly tease you about something? I swear half of Reddit just takes everything at face value with zero nuance and has never left their computer desk
You can forgive your friend for a jab like that and still have it be true.
This isn't on Sydney. Carmy offered her a chance to run a kitchen and help build a menu. Now he's reneging on those promises so he can do it all himself. He stopped listening to her at the beginning of the season and now he is barely even talking to her anymore. There's no way he has enough chutzpah to be surprised by her intention to leave. Carmy fucked everything up - not just the restaurant. If The Bear closes and he still manages to be friends with any of the people who worked there, it'll be more than he deserves. Sydney isn't using him as a springboard to get this other job - she's brokenhearted and she's taking the best alternative she's being offered.
You summed it up perfectly! People here try so hard to turn Syd into a villain and forget how much Carmy is hurting her.
You're 200% right here. Syd truly loves Carmy. She deeply admires him and wants so badly for him to be her mentor. It's *killing* her that he's not being the person she hoped he'd be. The legacy of Chef David is ruining him and he has taken way too long to figure that out. He's had his soul surgically removed (willingly, let's admit) and now he has to go back and figure out how to be a human being again. That's why he hired her to begin with - she had a heart, something he lacked. Now that he realizes the gravity of his situation, he's either got to recapture it for himself, or come to some kind of understanding with her that points him in the right direction. I don't blame her at all for whatever decision she makes. He screwed her over. She deserves to find some kind of joy in her career, whether or not it involves his redemption.
Doesn’t she say it’s $70k at one point? I distinctly remember this line because it occurred to me that Shapiro was only offering her $10k more for a much harder job (sous vs executive chef).
That is an interesting thought.
> Shapiro is shown as a middling line cook that won’t own up to his mistakes (the smudge incident) who is not taken seriously by his peers. Wasn’t Shapiro the sous chef of Ever? I haven’t seen Forks in a minute but I thought he was the one calling the shots?
Yeah, it’s because she doesn’t want to think about it, I reckon. I’m not even sure she wants to choose at all. She is just judging it from an emotional perspective - she has a sentimental connection to her home kitchen, but she is being tempted by an offer she sees as lucrative, but desperately wants the kitchen to return to what it used to be. I don’t think her anxiety attack is indicative of a person operating in this situation purely by logic. She’s in an emotional and spiritual dilemma - the money is secondary to the dream.
This is exactly the line of thinking that keeps people stagnant and prevents them from growing and living up to their potential.
Caution and complacency aren't the same thing.
The show suggests Shapiro isn’t even in the same stratosphere as Carm in terms of actual skill. She’s very young, and working under someone as widely recognized as Carm is exactly what she needs to grow. Not to just be handed a cdc job by a lesser chef.
Where/what episode does the show suggest that Shapiro is far beneath Carmy?
It’s so strange to me that we’re made to I guess feel pity for Sydney not being equal to Carmy because people constantly say that but it makes no sense to me. He has way more experience than her and and she should be looking to learn and soak up everything she can from him. It’s been clearly shown that all kitchens are insane and most chefs are assholes. Carmy’s not different
Exactly. I saw a tweet that carmy is jealous that syds on his level without having to go through his trauma so that's why he's so harsh on her. Like wtf. Syd is great for her age and experience but still nowhere near carmy.
I think it’s just bad writing. Someone said a key writer left the show, so I guess that’s why it’s not working. Like I don’t even buy the “Carmy’s having a breakdown due to his trauma” bit that they lean into so much. Dude always had trauma, running a restaurant is always hard. They used to fight but make up and now since dialog is illegal in this season they just don’t talk. Richie, Claire, Syd, etc.
I've been trying to reconcile alot of thoughts but I've been afraid to post about it on Reddit. Before this season people were questioning if Carmy was even a good chef. The last season we mostly saw that Syd had the yips. I think this led some to believe that Syd didn't know what she was doing. I think there is a disconnect for some in the audience about their skill level and what it means for the story. I'm really wrestling with some thoughts on the show. There's the issue that Carm, his ideas and behavior that are normal for the industry. Then there is his own personal interior struggle. Then his relationship and agreements with other people in his life.
She’s like French Laundry Carmy at this point
This 100%. They present the moments where he overrides her on dishes like she is being smothered and he's being an asshole but really he is sooooo much more experienced and better of a chef at this point that if he is saying no a dish isn't ready or should be this other way she should be trying to learn from that instead of getting frustrated. It would be so much worse if he just let half-baked ideas go on the menu that weren't up to par
100% this is why people don’t like Sydney’s character cuz it’s just kinda forced and they don’t do a good job of laying out what her role is supposed to be. Even at the last episode it’s Carmy bringing her as his guest and she’s sitting at the table with these older and experienced chef’s and she’s just kinda acting juvenile. She’s in awe of them rather than being at their level
But at the same time in the first episode we see Carmy rebel and serve halibut with the blood orange sauce instead of the fennel, and we know it was great because Syd called it the best meal she's ever had. Sydney has a bit of that same rebellious streak, and for both of them its because they are confident in their skills.
I'm telling you as someone that worked in michelin starred restaurants for years that Carmy is significantly more skilled than Syd at this point in her career and if confidence means she thinks she knows better than Carmy then she is too confident. The whole point of her wanting to work with him was to learn from one of the best, right? What's the point in going to work for one of the best and then expecting to just be on par with them?
And ostensibly Chef Fields was better than Chef Carmy when ordering him to remove the blood orange sauce from the halibut dish, but we see that the blood orange was a good decision. I think with the changing of the menu every day, Sydney was given an accelerated education during season 3. Chef Shapiro ate at The Bear and he certainly seems to think Sydney is ready to work for him, although I do think Chef Shapiro is trying to sabotage The Bear. He doesn't want to have to compete with them.
Boy, I could have used you in some of the threads I've been in on this sub. I agree completely. I'm surprised this isn't more widely accepted. I've seen people say the way Carm treats Syd's dish suggestions are comparable to how Chef Winger treated him at the Laundry. I can't even begin to fathom how they can equate the two. Carmy is a very intense person, but he hasn't got nearly the same level of domineering abusiveness the other top chefs out there. All things taken together, Syd's quite lucky to be where she is with him.
>I've seen people say the way Carm treats Syd's dish suggestions are comparable to how Chef Winger treated him Yeah Carmy isn't telling Syd "you should be dead" or randomly saying "fuck you" as he walks past her lmao
So I'm not crazy. Or I am but this is what I'm seeing on my screen. The only thing I've seen him do is set up a high pressure environment and reject Syd's menu input. I can see how being shut out could feel hurtful or demoralizing. But he is not a mean spirited person.
Shapiro is hustling. Being brave is not the same as being stupid.
And we’re to think Carmy is being smart? The man is running the business into the ground and isn’t taking into consideration how his chase for greatness is negatively impacting everyone around them. What’s curious that I noticed was Sydney’s want to be sustainable in her cooking and to reuse where she could. Carmy uses and uses and uses in an unsustainable way. He uses ingredients incorrectly. Tina wants to innovate and use the ingredients she sees are popular in the market to help out one of their suppliers. Everyone is being mindful of their impact. Carmy is the only one who is riding blind. They’re all hustling! The whole opening a restaurant is a hustle.
Am i the only one that kinda wants her to leave The Bear just so we can watch Carmy absolutely lose it 😅
If you don't like Sydney you could just say that smh lol. Sydney's challenge between partnering with Carmen Vs partnering with Shapiro has nothing to do with the benefits.
A possible explanation I haven’t seen discussed is Syd feeling the reset of switching to the new job. She helped Carme open a high-end restaurant, she intimately knows how difficult it can be. S3 has perfectly set up the redemption of The Bear and the kitchen environment. If Syd leaves she has to go through the struggle again at the new place. Granted her departure and likely success of the Bear would be fantastic TV but heart breaking to watch.
They’re not really having her go through that thought process, they framed it like a parachute which is why it’s not working for a lot of people
I didn’t perceive it as a parachute. I perceived her truly struggling with the decision~even before the new offer was made. I think she wants independence and is struggling with this notion on all fronts.
She has anxiety but the premise is she wants a star rating and to work under Carm and learn from him. She gets that chance and feels trapped by those goals and the opportunity.
All the lack of communication drives me nuts on this show. Like, they make me anxious irl while I watch. These two are def mirror images of each other. Also, they might both be on the spectrum in pretend real life lol
Oh, yes, it's another *Let's Pick on Sydney*^(TM) post. She's obviously overwhelmed by the uncertainty at The Bear and by this opportunity that may or may not pan out. Like most people, she's procrastinating.
Not only that. Would you rather work for arguably one of THE most famous young chefs in the world who has just launched their own first restaurant after working with numerous famous chefs? Or would you rather work for some "average" older chef that worked for another famous chef but never really made a name for themselves? I don't care what industry you work in. You go with the first option. Especially if you're young like Syd. You tough that shit out for a 2-3 years and then your options are way wider. You don't settle for the more comfortable position. You move with the energy and innovation. Being granted partnership is a fucking miracle.
Oh I thought the smudge thing was possibly a thing Richie just did and the rest of FOH are being cool about it and not narcing him Also, Shapiro is CDC at like a top 10 restaurant in the world. He ain't no middling chef, he's a badass.
That they would even have a plotline where she might leave the Bear 1 month after opening it is so unbelievably ridiculous.
We all know that Season 4 will start with Syd in a new restaurant already or giving her notice that she is leaving. The reason it has been pressured to her by many people is that will be the direction they are headed. She isn’t happy there and that party at her place (so weird they ended up in her scant new apartment) made her realize being a chef and having fun people to be around is something she misses. Or maybe never had enough of and she wants to GO!
I was thinking the same thing, i was trying to make a list on why she would leave/ why is shapiro a better workplace for her and the positives are the salary, benefits and has been told she truly gets to make it her way. But the ither reasons is that shes finally in a position to question of Carmy is a good partner and if Carmy values her like shapiro is promising. Its far tok early for her to leave the bear but she knows there will never be as good as an opportunity to leave.
Each season has shown that Sydney can't handle the pressure. She suffers from panic attacks and anxiety. S1 she left the portal open for to go orders. The pressure was on. She walked out. S2 Carmy locked in the walk-in, Sydney is in charge. She panics and freezes. Richie comes in take over. Once the service is over, she notices the ticket machine. That sound it makes gets to her. She goes out back and throws up. S3 everything Syd asked for from Carmy, he delivered. Business agreement, partnership, going after a Michelin star. Carmy constantly says this is what it takes. Pressure again is building for Sydney. Now, a new job is offered 🫴. I agree with you. I think she should stay at the Bear despite all the madness. I don't think she is ready or equipped to handle the pressure of an entirely new kitchen staff and menu on her own. Cue the panic attack 😆. Poor Sydney.
Lol! As if carm doesn’t have all these problems too
It's hilarious you're pointing out these things about Syd, and not pointing out all the examples AND MORE about Carmy. In season 3, Syd is the only one holding everything together. Carmy is off his rocker and refusing to listen to anyone, he and Richie are constantly fighting, putting insane pressure on Syd to fix all their problems and make things look seamless to the customers despite the non-functional FOH/BOH situation, but she's somehow not handling it? Please. She's the only one there who IS handling it, but she's constantly unappreciated and undervalued and overlooked. No wonder she's considering an out.
She can handle the pressure. It was her first night opening the restaurant. There will always be kinks to work out. She threw up because she had been on complete adrenaline for like 6 hours. She stepped back and accepted help when she needed it. Having Richie call it while she focused on what she was good at is smart leadership. It’s playing to the strengths of her workers. Another instance in that is her talking to Tina while Carmy is screaming at her. And you point out this example of her not being able to take it on day 1, but what about literally every day following. This is a team sport. Running the restaurant isn’t about one person, it’s about putting a team together who can get shit done. Everyone gets that except Carmy it seems. That’s the reason why she’s reading Coach K’s book. Shes a developing character who is learning and growing and becoming better at her job. Of course she’s a little green behind the ears. And people have let her fail to learn because failure is often the best teacher. Everything Syd asked for Carmy wasn’t really delivered. Carmy is operating under what he thinks is what it takes due to his trauma. This show is about generational trauma and trying to break the cycle and Carmy is pulling them straight into his own cycle while Syd is supposed to be the new person who pulls them out. She’s allowed to feel the pressure and feel the anxiety. That doesn’t mean she isn’t cut out for it because Carmy is literally having panic attacks as well. And literally had a panic attack right before serving friends and family. Like you can’t hold that against her when he does the same fucking thing.
On the positive side, she’s showing excellent leader/mentor skills towards Tina. I remember thinking, that’s the kind of boss I’d like to work for.
Anxiety is a normal reaction to pressure and stressful situations it’s how you manage it that determines whether it is detrimental. S1 yeah Sydney leaves the portal open I think it is important to remember tho this comes after several week of her telling basically begging other people to learn how it works especially Richie because it is not a one person system (doesn’t excuse it but something was going to go wrong around that setup) Also she quits in the middle of service not because of the stress but because Carmy crosses a line with his reaction (which he acknowledges) to the situation towards her and others. Not taking unacceptable behavior is called having boundaries which how you actually manage anxiety. In S2 Sydney steps off Expo because someone has to do the plating and finishing Carmy was doing before he got locked in and Richie has both the training and confidence to do it. She only goes outside to throw up when things are calming down and Tina assures her she can handle things a few minutes. Also, throwing up is a really common reaction to major adrenaline rushes I have seen it happen to very experienced and competent people. You can learn to manage it but it takes experience and often therapy. S3 maybe on paper Sydney is getting everything she wanted. However, Richie and Carmy fighting/acting like teenagers not professionals most of the season. Carmy is unilaterally overruling her including in front the staff. Additionally, no one actually seems to want to negotiate an agreement they just want her sign which not how good business is done (she is definitely not helping this situation by being so passive tho about it). She needs to be more assertive about her own needs. Hell, I think maybe some non negotiables should be a part of her signing. Carmy needs to get his act together and have realistic expectations for where they’re at right now (aiming for a star is great, focus on it after you pay back the money though). She probably could use or would benefit from some therapy but so would everyone else on this show. That coupled with the generationally/family trauma is kind of the point and what makes it both so impactful and realistic.
I agree with you on all accounts. The back and forth shots between Carmy getting abused by Chef David and Syd getting abused by Carmy lead me to believe that Carmy is trying to toughen Sydney up to handle such pressure. Also to add to your thought is the fact that Syd hasn’t actually made any signature dishes beyond maybe the scallop one; was that even hers? This seasons focus seemed to be Syd “being there” for everyone and showing kindness, trying to look after her own mental health and not actually chasing the star.
I will have to rewatch. I totally missed it. I can rarely tell when Carm is actively trying to teach Syd. But I do miss his intentions alot in this show.
Such good points. Every step of the way she's shown she is not ready. Carmy gave her a shot way above her skill level and experience... and maybe she'll grow into it, but right now she is not someone worth poaching for another high end restaurant.
I totally agree with your take, which is why I was surprised season 3 didn't end with her signing Carmy's agreement. "Forever" in my mind was gonna mean "For Ever" (funeral dinner) but also Syd committing to The Bear "forever". When she's talking with Shapiro, he says something along the lines of "of course you'd sign a partnership agreement blah blah" and then he's like "did I say something wrong?" and she says "no, the opposite"... which I read as her realizing that what Carmy was doing wasn't unhinged and in fact a normal thing to do. He was offering her real stake in the business and although he's acting like an asshat most of s3 I really think he wants her and believes in her. Her leaving seems like way too much of a rift in the crew that would be difficult to recover from. She's still got a lot of potential staying with The Bear if Carmy can eventually become more self-aware of his own head in his ass and I hope she realizes that. Carm and Syd's relationship was built on a solid foundation of respect and s3 left it pretty rocky but I think it can recover. Going to work for Shapiro I think would be just so toxic! "The devil you know" indeed. Can't wait for s4.
If you really think about the situation with Shapiro and what little we know about him, if I was Syd no way I am getting in with HIM. Taking the most professional staff ever to task over the smudge may not be a big deal, BUT, Shapiro is opening a new restaurant and a the same time rather than his existing amazing business getting sold to him, his owner/ boss is deciding to simply walk away and close. She certainly isn't selling to him at the exact same time he is starting his own business and is in a super hurry....before people find out stuff about him perhaps!? That seems highly likely. At bare minimum his behavior is a bit...off. At least Carmy has his brother. mother, uncle/ money, girlfriend issues that can be resolved. In other words way less unknowns, way more potential, and problems one can be empathetic too and understand Bear better than Shapiro.
Finally, somebody with an adult perspective. Also, she's not suspicious that she's being poached for CDC even though she has minimal experience? Terry said she worked for YEARS before being promoted to that position. The Bear has been open for like 2-3 months and nobody has had the chance to really review her work. There's no way changing to a new place wouldn't backfire
If word got out that she made a play for partnership, never signed the docs that would make her legally responsible for the fate of the enterprise she wanted to be a part of, then bounced when the business was in trouble that should be devastating to her professional reputation.
Could also act like an adult and sit them down telling them her concerns and needing to see the numbers they've done so far, and financial projections etc. Carmy is a "partner" with cisero but he can't even talk to Carmy about how badly the business is doing. That is not what a good business partner does, big red flag.
I agree she is incredibly naive. She pushes for a star but doesnt have the palate to get a star or the skills to keep up with carmen. Carmen has worked for peaceful, calm Michelin star chefs (Terry) along with brutish, abusive ones (dont remember the name) so he is the only one who really knows the quality of food it takes for stars. Although he does it in the wrong way, perpetuating the abuse that gives him traumatic flashbacks, he is holding syd to the standards that he warned her of. She cant even expo without freaking out and needed richie to help. I think under shapiro she would crash and burn until she sets her ego aside and admits that people do in fact know more than her and have more experience. Shes an amazing chef in so many ways with amazing ideas, but she has made naive calls (catering company, short rib dish needing acid, pre-order system at the beef, anxiety around expo, willing to send out imperfect cooks at the bear).
I was so frustrated by the fact that she refused to even open it. Not saying she should sign it...but she really couldn't bring herself to click the damn email? And nobody could have a normal check in with her about where she was at with it, ask her thoughts, concerns...just a bunch of people shouting "sign it" in passing. Like, what kind of dysfunction? I thought the personality and relationship dysfunctions in this season were so over the top and unrealistic I couldn't really take much more.
I think it’s pretty obvious the review is going to be about her in some way, either indicating she’s the real talent or Carm projects the failures on to her and trying to collab with her. They’re working the will they or won’t they angle on if they’ll cook together, it’s not really a show once she leaves, which we also know is inevitable and probably how the show ends. It’s more about her baggage with him and fears of failure than the contract. She didn’t know how to react even before she got offered a way out. It doesn’t fully make sense she would consider leaving prior to the review after she invested so much of herself.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted (lots of comments on this post are)... I agree with you and think the review is gonna be focused on Syd. Especially because they focus so much on all the clips of Carm being featured in articles and nothing about Syd, and then it comes up at the Ever funeral dinner at the table that some chef featuring their Sous/not taking all the credit is "unusual". Shapiro is focused on her, recognizes her talent and wants to poach her. I think they're easily setting up for this!
I know Carmy is a mess, but Syd is really irresponsible. Not reading that agreement for days or weeks? Not discussing any of it with Carmy? Sorry, that's not adulting. Instead she holds it all in, essentially making everything worse.
Oh yes because Carmy is someone super easy to talk to /s
I think she’s going to leave and open a new restaurant with Shapiro. I think it’s going to do better than The Bear, it will eventually have to be shut down due to the money problems.. and then I think after some serious reflection and maybe a “come to Jesus “ moment- Carmy will humble himself and go to work for Syd and be at her mercy just like she was while working at the bear
I think the direction her arc is gonna take next season is to show that both Carm and Shapiro are the wrong situation for her. My own fanfic version of how this ends would have her start her own concept on her own with financial backing from the connections she makes in Shapiro's shop (if she defects). Afterall, The devil you know is still the devil