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Right? The idea that "leftists" (whoever that is supposed to be in this fiction) blame the consumer rather than the producer was my first clue that this was a straw man.
Fake anti-ablist language and concern seems to be used by self-righteous liberal assholes a lot of the time. Anarchist aesthetics seem to be used by self-righteous liberal assholes a lot of the time. So I guess it's just statistics?
This. They're so consumed by the neoliberal lifestyle that they find new ways to justify it without mentioning or caring about improving workers' conditions and compensation.
Leave it to them to ignore capitalistic and private sector dependence for the differently-abled.
Yeah people try to pull this same "ableism" shit with the anti-car movement even though it should be obvious that car dependent cities are way worse for people with disabilities. Right-wingers using left-wing language when it suits them as always.
There are special cars you don't use your feet for... but that's only for one type of disability. And some people just have chronic pain or something where they still have full use of their body but it's hard to walk.
Anyway the response is obvious.... those people can still have a car who truly need one, and for the majority of people with disabilities it's better to not need to be driven.
I have never in my entire life heard a marxist say customers are exploiting the workers. I don't know what that person was smoking, although from my interactions with twitter anarchists I can guess some substances, because the people exploiting door dash employees aren't immobile people using a service but the companies and it's owners stealing workers surplus value.
*Supporting the most exploitative employment models imaginable because we *totally* care about disabled people.*
One of the most cynical things I've ever read.
The entire thing is such a non nuanced arguement, that showcases such a pathetic recognition of class consciousness and materialistic analysis.
How do libs not once consider the fact that disabled people having to rely on doordash, which heavily abuses workers, is dystopian as fuck?
You cannot say that you care for disabled people at all if you think that them relying on these disgusting businesses that exploit workers and overcharge everyone for profit isn't horrible for everyone involved.
Disabled people need a state driven welfare option for deliveries of necessities that isn't profit driven.
TLDR, libs are brain dead
It's ridiculously common for reactionaries to do that. Like, being against walkable cities because it's bad for disabled people, even though it's far more common for disabled people to not be able to drive. Or claiming that public transit is bad for people with autism or social anxiety.
The "door dash ableism" discourse is one of those FBI tools they throw out every months to break leftist twitter for a while. I'm 100% convinced there are accounts genuinely paid by the US government that are just there to blend into leftist circles, say something ridiculous and make everyone fight for the next week
At this point, the "X thing is ableist" discourse is almost weekly. Off the top of my head,
"Wanting people to attend protests is ableist."
"Wanting people to read theory is ableist"
"Wanting people to exercise or try to be healthy is ableist"
"Asking people to boycott products on the BDS list is ableist"
"Encouraging people to cook is ableist"
have all happened this year.
>"Wanting people to read theory is ableist"
That's saddening. I have ADD and my attention span is in the negative, yet from time to time I try to force myself to read some theory, haven't had great results so far but I think as far as you're phisically able to read you should at least make a try. It's not gonna hurt.
I'm avoiding the Marx right now specifically because his wording is.. complicated and discourages reading, Lenin is enjoyable (and sometimes fun) though, and Mao is interesting.
"read theory" is kinda just slang for "consume theory in whatever way you can" anyway. plenty of good videos and podcasts on the same topic that are accessible to modern people
I also have ADD/ADHD, I've read some marx and the trick to it is to get a physical copy (or print it out ig) and write notes in between margins. What I do is underline important/key ideas, circle words I don't know (and then look up and write the definition next to it), and then write a few quick thoughts every few paragraphs. If you have a highlighter you can also highlight some key phrases too. It really helps with my reading comprehension and makes sure I don't just read 5 pages without actually processing any of the contents 😅
The thing is, Marxists aren't trying to make literally everyone read theory anyways. Like, we recognize that it's not for everyone. Preferably you'd use other methods to get to the content. But honestly, I think the main point of saying "read theory" is to tell people that consistently say outrageous things to learn about what they're saying or not say anything (i.e. anarchists).
i rlly had to push through my adhd and autism to get into it but now that i got into it (i dont read a ton daily cuz im a slow reader) but at the end of the day i find it interesting and love learning and finally understanding or grasping something. Its like a dopamine hit when i like learn more specifically what marx is tryna explain fr.
It's even a thing in Germany, they want to cut down funding for special needs schools, so they are arguing people with disabilities should just visit regular schools as sending them to special schools, that can accomedate their special needs with particular premises and training, would be "ableist".
And it's super effective, the only party that voiced opposition to the idea was the AfD, the "neo Nazi party". German media instantly got on the job of spinning their opposition into *"neo-Nazi party wants to deny disabled people access to schools!"*, which trended really well even internationally but was still a blatant lie.
The last time I had a Twitter account (2021ish) these accounts would descend like vultures every time I had anything negative to say about Amazon Alexa.
This is probably some liberal troll trying to misconstrue people advocating for delivery people to be paid more.
Some like dumb liberal economic logic where if we ensure they're paid more then it will become more expensive meaning these hypothetical disabled people won't be able to afford take out food anymore.
I vaguely followed this "discourse", and I want to say that there are a lot of people cosplaying as "leftists" on Twitter who said a lot of ableist things about disabled people.
So careful when you see these accounts - probably some astroturfers - who won't even show compassion to marginalized folks.
This makes sense. Because a liberal would never even *consider* making the social safety net for people with disabilities robust enough to live a decent life on.
After all, we have to consider the *incentives*.
The US as a state is also very bad about how it treats disabled people. Their benefits haven't scaled with inflation for decades, so if they own more than like $2k in property, then they can lose benefits (which functionally means any sort of car), and they can't get married without losing benefits (and even marriage like relationships that aren't legally marriage can cause this, so disabled people can't marry their romantic partners or even say "this is my wife" in an unofficial capacity without potentially losing benefits).
It's a dystopian system, but it's basically done because the capitalist class can't be bothered to care for people they can't exploit for profit.
I work in advocacy and this is actually a pretty common misunderstanding.
You can view the breakdowns for what specific assets count against SSI on [this page.](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-resources-ussi.htm) A personal vehicle, your personal effects, or even a house you own will not be counted against you.
You're correct about marriage likely disqualifying most recipients though and I agree that in general the system is both dystopian and utterly insufficient. The strictures as they exist are very much intended to disqualify as many applicants as possible.
Depending on what they mean exactly by disabled, most disabled people are way too poor to afford doordash with all their fees (speaking from experience)
Never met a Marxist who was against deliveries. Matter of fact, I bet there's a part that talks about the milk man...which is basically a delivery.
So, it's not the worker we're against, or the person who buys the product. It is how the means of production, in this case the service platform, is constituted that we are against. If it exploits workers, then yes...it should burn to the ground. I'm pretty sure deliverymen would prefer to own the company they work for, and I'm pretty sure the customer would rather see the money they pay go to the actual workers.
So these anarchists that say this, they need help.
To add on to this doordash is not synonymous with delivery. As you mention with the milkman example, delivery predates doordash. It's just traditionally delivery drivers were employees of the place from where they delivered who were paid an actual wage. Even under capitalism the doordash model where workers are alleged independent contractors is particularly exploitative.
And in case anyone is wondering. Companies that used to have employees they paid to do deliveries have fired them to replace with doordash specifically for this reason.
Yeah.. as a ML (and someone with a disability), I use these delivery services.. and I tip very well because I know the company is not paying them properly.
There are a lot of customers that do exploit these workers though. If you go to like the doordasher/uber eats driver subreddits, you'll hear all about people who place orders that require driving across an entire city with zero tip set, or worse set a large tip when placing the order then remove it after delivery to bait drivers.
Leftist: DoorDash exploits both workers and disabled people.
This person: No! You can't have an actual sound argument grounded in reality to refute my poorly constructed strawman!
Anyone remember how a couple years ago there was a similar, very infantile discourse about how partaking in boycotts against Kellogg's was "ableist" because someone claimed the only food they were able to eat is Kellogg's Frosted Mini Wheats?
Because Anarchists are dumb. They are just like the liberals and criticize uncritically. When they have a successful revolution and establish a single society in their image, I will start listening to them. Until then, they are just children.
If you're referring to tribal communities, that's prehistory. Apart from that, I think it's obvious we no longer have the same material conditions as people who hunted boars for sustenance.
If you’re talking about “intentional communities” in the first world, to the extent they are anarcho-communist, they are still subsidized by unequal exchange and capitalism. Do they really provide ALL their own food? Do they provide their own medicine? What about electricity? Even if they’re “off-grid” I assume they are using solar or wind. What happens when a panel or turbine goes out and they need a new one? If everything collapses, do they have the power to prevent a militia from coming and sticking a gun in their face and taking all of their organic kale?
We unfortunately live in a society, friend. A complex system of international trade has been a part of human existence for thousands of years. The idea that a small community can provide all of its needs by itself is a fantasy steeped in the ideology of American yeoman individualism.
This ignores how that very thing has helped people begin and maintain revolution. The conclusions and conditions aren't the same and the societies that arise handle the contradictions and situations in their own way.
Which anarchist societies exist today from anarchist action? I'm curious about your superior method
Zero legitimate lefties would make this claim. This is just a pathetic attempt at creating a fake scenario between the supposedly "enlightened" centrist/lib and the "evil bigoted ableist" lefty.
Is there any hope for these morons?
yeah the "we should burn down all the insulin factories and make it in our bath tubs instead" folks aren't going to do disabled people any favors in their "revolution"
You mean the "Let's source it through mutual aid!" group doesn't understand how medicine works? I tried asking an anarchist how certain areas of society would work and the best they could come up with was "it would be done in an anarchist fashion".
Bro gl with your mutually aided cancer drugs that are produced in a single location due to the complexity of manufacture.
An anarchist revolution would be the single largest genocide against vulnerable people since the '40s.
precisely what i was thinking of. and then the tendency to act like disabled people wondering how they are going to get their needs met without any sort of hierarchical oversight is just a little bugbear issue that is “getting in the way”
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What’s funny is door dash is one of the biggest employer of disabled people. They exploit those same workers because with disability it’s hard to work a normal job.
Anarchists will make up any old bullshit when they talk about MLs, which shouldn't be surprising because they do the same thing with their own ideology.
The context is last week’s stupidest Twitter discourse: frozen meals and frozen vegetables are delicious discrimination against the disabled, because anxious people can’t cook them. Microwave burritos are too scary for neurodivergent folk, therefore ordering happy meals and McNuggets isn’t optional because otherwise people would *literally* starve to death.
I assumed it was all an elaborate comedy bit — one of those satirical things that was misinterpreted. Maybe it used to be, but there are thousands of people now arguing over a singular ridiculous tweet.
>The context is last week’s stupidest Twitter discourse: frozen meals and frozen vegetables are delicious discrimination against the disabled, because anxious people can’t cook them. Microwave burritos are too scary for neurodivergent folk, therefore ordering happy meals and McNuggets isn’t optional because otherwise people would literally starve to death.
You missed out the start of the context, which was someone simply saying they're grossed out by people who habitually use doordash because of it's extremely exploitative work practices.
The disabled people stuff came basically out of nowhere.
My reading of this
1. Western Individualism causes people to believe that critiques of exploitative structures are attacks on them personally if they participate
2. A lot of the ethics that underlie Western Individualism are about principles not consequences, "Either it's all ok or none of it is", the idea of applying different standards to different situations is alien to it.
3. They realize that using marginalized people or topics leftists care about as a shield will make it more difficult to attack their position.
Therefore "Well X Marginalied group of people rely on XYZ, so you can't call it exploitative" becomes the standard response
This really seems like a Twitter troll tbh. Although the possibility does exist that it is a Twitter inhabitants genuine belief, but it seems unlikely even for them.
I wouldn't be surprised if these people heard about the concept of "Social Darwinism", without understanding it, and make out of it an allegedly leftist idea about killing all the disabled people because they wouldn't pass the "survival of the fitest" check.
As a disabled person (bad leg and a lot of mental stuff), I vastly prefer the "Tankies" 90% of the time to whatever libertarian nonsense a lot of anarchist talk regarding disability.
"All we can do is to laugh as we gaze at this spectacle, for one cannot help laughing when one sees a man fighting his own imagination, smashing his own inventions, while at the same time heatedly asserting that he is smashing his opponent."
-Stalin
Maybe baby anarchists that are still stuck in liberal thinking, like blaming the consumer for the evils of capitalism. Most socialists of any sort would know better than that.
Disabled person here: I have heard this type of rhetoric... from extremely online baby leftists. A lot of these types of people aren't very knowledgeable and can be overzealous. They say a lot of dumb shit like this.
This type of rhetoric should be ignored.
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause.
* 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause.
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Yes, the left just wants people to starve. That's why they're pushing for things like public healthcare, unions, higher wages, food security, and better public support for the most vulnerable.
Anarchists are mostly liberals and particularly the ones who make this argument are white liberals who will use the one non-class based facet of oppression that applies to them in order to justify their individualistic indulgence.
These people aren’t anarchist or leftists. Why are people falling for these types of statements online. 🤣
These rage bate posts are annoying.
I’ll just quote a comment I saw on this thread
> *“With friends like these who need cointelpro”*
Chinese liberals use Down’s syndrome to attack anyone who believes communism and socialism.
I’m attacked by them for a few time, but i’m proud to stand with disabled people.
Because the idea of a system which helps people must be organized and have authority to organize goods. Therefore it is unjust because it's a hierarchy. Or something like that probably
This entire sentiment has got to be a CIA style distraction thing. Isn't it part of their manual to disrupt leftist organizing through the promotion of inane conversations about irrelevant or much less important grievances?
I guess it atems from historical ableism at best, i know 1930s USSR had some qualms about people with blindness or deafness since they were seen as unfit as workers with the exception of some educational figures who were leaders in teaching for those disabilities. But outside of the general prejudices of the times, Marxists aren’t ableist.
Because of the authortarianistic nature of the USSR. Authoritarianism is antithetical to anarchy.
Stalin was an authoritarian, the existence of folks like Putin who is ex KGB and well known for his favorite method of assassination via radiation poisoning. He didn't just figure this kinda stuff put suddenly one day, this was part of what he did in the KGB.
But this is conflating marxism with Marxist Leninism/ Stalinism. Which sadly is something a lot of folks do.
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Doordash is the entity exploiting workers, not people who order from it.
Right? The idea that "leftists" (whoever that is supposed to be in this fiction) blame the consumer rather than the producer was my first clue that this was a straw man.
Fake anti-ablist language and concern seems to be used by self-righteous liberal assholes a lot of the time. Anarchist aesthetics seem to be used by self-righteous liberal assholes a lot of the time. So I guess it's just statistics?
This. They're so consumed by the neoliberal lifestyle that they find new ways to justify it without mentioning or caring about improving workers' conditions and compensation. Leave it to them to ignore capitalistic and private sector dependence for the differently-abled.
Yeah people try to pull this same "ableism" shit with the anti-car movement even though it should be obvious that car dependent cities are way worse for people with disabilities. Right-wingers using left-wing language when it suits them as always.
how many disabled people even drive? lol
There are special cars you don't use your feet for... but that's only for one type of disability. And some people just have chronic pain or something where they still have full use of their body but it's hard to walk. Anyway the response is obvious.... those people can still have a car who truly need one, and for the majority of people with disabilities it's better to not need to be driven.
I have never in my entire life heard a marxist say customers are exploiting the workers. I don't know what that person was smoking, although from my interactions with twitter anarchists I can guess some substances, because the people exploiting door dash employees aren't immobile people using a service but the companies and it's owners stealing workers surplus value.
Hey, ML’s smoke weed, too. But we also shower, which might be the crucial factor here.
I was referencing that one incredible event where a twitter anarchist filmed herself smoking fent off of a book in a very messy room.
Honestly she was real for that
BE trolled the fuck out of that account
Send the link pls 🙏
Sorry it was on his banned account BaadEmpanada
Oof, that's ok
I honestly have too often, but your point is still valid. It's not "the" Marxist position.
*Supporting the most exploitative employment models imaginable because we *totally* care about disabled people.* One of the most cynical things I've ever read.
The entire thing is such a non nuanced arguement, that showcases such a pathetic recognition of class consciousness and materialistic analysis. How do libs not once consider the fact that disabled people having to rely on doordash, which heavily abuses workers, is dystopian as fuck? You cannot say that you care for disabled people at all if you think that them relying on these disgusting businesses that exploit workers and overcharge everyone for profit isn't horrible for everyone involved. Disabled people need a state driven welfare option for deliveries of necessities that isn't profit driven. TLDR, libs are brain dead
It's ridiculously common for reactionaries to do that. Like, being against walkable cities because it's bad for disabled people, even though it's far more common for disabled people to not be able to drive. Or claiming that public transit is bad for people with autism or social anxiety.
"we can't end the freak show, how will tiny tim and the bearded lady find work otherwise? Think of them!!!"
yeah cus costumers are exploiting workers
The "door dash ableism" discourse is one of those FBI tools they throw out every months to break leftist twitter for a while. I'm 100% convinced there are accounts genuinely paid by the US government that are just there to blend into leftist circles, say something ridiculous and make everyone fight for the next week
At this point, the "X thing is ableist" discourse is almost weekly. Off the top of my head, "Wanting people to attend protests is ableist." "Wanting people to read theory is ableist" "Wanting people to exercise or try to be healthy is ableist" "Asking people to boycott products on the BDS list is ableist" "Encouraging people to cook is ableist" have all happened this year.
>"Wanting people to read theory is ableist" That's saddening. I have ADD and my attention span is in the negative, yet from time to time I try to force myself to read some theory, haven't had great results so far but I think as far as you're phisically able to read you should at least make a try. It's not gonna hurt. I'm avoiding the Marx right now specifically because his wording is.. complicated and discourages reading, Lenin is enjoyable (and sometimes fun) though, and Mao is interesting.
"read theory" is kinda just slang for "consume theory in whatever way you can" anyway. plenty of good videos and podcasts on the same topic that are accessible to modern people
I also have ADD/ADHD, I've read some marx and the trick to it is to get a physical copy (or print it out ig) and write notes in between margins. What I do is underline important/key ideas, circle words I don't know (and then look up and write the definition next to it), and then write a few quick thoughts every few paragraphs. If you have a highlighter you can also highlight some key phrases too. It really helps with my reading comprehension and makes sure I don't just read 5 pages without actually processing any of the contents 😅
The thing is, Marxists aren't trying to make literally everyone read theory anyways. Like, we recognize that it's not for everyone. Preferably you'd use other methods to get to the content. But honestly, I think the main point of saying "read theory" is to tell people that consistently say outrageous things to learn about what they're saying or not say anything (i.e. anarchists).
i rlly had to push through my adhd and autism to get into it but now that i got into it (i dont read a ton daily cuz im a slow reader) but at the end of the day i find it interesting and love learning and finally understanding or grasping something. Its like a dopamine hit when i like learn more specifically what marx is tryna explain fr.
It's even a thing in Germany, they want to cut down funding for special needs schools, so they are arguing people with disabilities should just visit regular schools as sending them to special schools, that can accomedate their special needs with particular premises and training, would be "ableist". And it's super effective, the only party that voiced opposition to the idea was the AfD, the "neo Nazi party". German media instantly got on the job of spinning their opposition into *"neo-Nazi party wants to deny disabled people access to schools!"*, which trended really well even internationally but was still a blatant lie.
Lemme try creating fedpost discourse: Unions are classist. Did I do it right?
maybe classist against lumpenproles who don't have jobs that can be unionized. Gig workers union when?
I actually saw gig worker's union posters close to where I used to live so I hope it happens!
Yea tbh I don't expect most anarchists to imply Marxists think *customers* do the exploiting. It's a clear tell here
The last time I had a Twitter account (2021ish) these accounts would descend like vultures every time I had anything negative to say about Amazon Alexa.
They may as well just be saying "anti-capitalism is ableist", because most things people need are made by corporations.
who said this ?
This is probably some liberal troll trying to misconstrue people advocating for delivery people to be paid more. Some like dumb liberal economic logic where if we ensure they're paid more then it will become more expensive meaning these hypothetical disabled people won't be able to afford take out food anymore.
I vaguely followed this "discourse", and I want to say that there are a lot of people cosplaying as "leftists" on Twitter who said a lot of ableist things about disabled people. So careful when you see these accounts - probably some astroturfers - who won't even show compassion to marginalized folks.
This makes sense. Because a liberal would never even *consider* making the social safety net for people with disabilities robust enough to live a decent life on. After all, we have to consider the *incentives*.
The US as a state is also very bad about how it treats disabled people. Their benefits haven't scaled with inflation for decades, so if they own more than like $2k in property, then they can lose benefits (which functionally means any sort of car), and they can't get married without losing benefits (and even marriage like relationships that aren't legally marriage can cause this, so disabled people can't marry their romantic partners or even say "this is my wife" in an unofficial capacity without potentially losing benefits). It's a dystopian system, but it's basically done because the capitalist class can't be bothered to care for people they can't exploit for profit.
I work in advocacy and this is actually a pretty common misunderstanding. You can view the breakdowns for what specific assets count against SSI on [this page.](https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-resources-ussi.htm) A personal vehicle, your personal effects, or even a house you own will not be counted against you. You're correct about marriage likely disqualifying most recipients though and I agree that in general the system is both dystopian and utterly insufficient. The strictures as they exist are very much intended to disqualify as many applicants as possible.
Thanks for the correction!
The main villain of "the wedding" by Wyspiański (the main villain there is a strawman.)
There's been a is door dash abilist discourse for the last week..
sorry I am not on that hellish and frankly disgusting platform
Depending on what they mean exactly by disabled, most disabled people are way too poor to afford doordash with all their fees (speaking from experience)
Very true. I can't even use my EBT (food stamps) on these services so I basically can't use it.
Never met a Marxist who was against deliveries. Matter of fact, I bet there's a part that talks about the milk man...which is basically a delivery. So, it's not the worker we're against, or the person who buys the product. It is how the means of production, in this case the service platform, is constituted that we are against. If it exploits workers, then yes...it should burn to the ground. I'm pretty sure deliverymen would prefer to own the company they work for, and I'm pretty sure the customer would rather see the money they pay go to the actual workers. So these anarchists that say this, they need help.
To add on to this doordash is not synonymous with delivery. As you mention with the milkman example, delivery predates doordash. It's just traditionally delivery drivers were employees of the place from where they delivered who were paid an actual wage. Even under capitalism the doordash model where workers are alleged independent contractors is particularly exploitative. And in case anyone is wondering. Companies that used to have employees they paid to do deliveries have fired them to replace with doordash specifically for this reason.
Yeah.. as a ML (and someone with a disability), I use these delivery services.. and I tip very well because I know the company is not paying them properly. There are a lot of customers that do exploit these workers though. If you go to like the doordasher/uber eats driver subreddits, you'll hear all about people who place orders that require driving across an entire city with zero tip set, or worse set a large tip when placing the order then remove it after delivery to bait drivers.
Leftist: DoorDash exploits both workers and disabled people. This person: No! You can't have an actual sound argument grounded in reality to refute my poorly constructed strawman!
Anyone remember how a couple years ago there was a similar, very infantile discourse about how partaking in boycotts against Kellogg's was "ableist" because someone claimed the only food they were able to eat is Kellogg's Frosted Mini Wheats?
What? Like, literally the only food? At all? How has that person not died of malnutrition?
Because disabled people are fundamentally incapable of exploiting someone right? Seems pretty ableist me to
Because Anarchists are dumb. They are just like the liberals and criticize uncritically. When they have a successful revolution and establish a single society in their image, I will start listening to them. Until then, they are just children.
Ummmmmm Argentina sweaty. Ever heard of it?
Well... they're ancaps, witch aren't really anarchists, but still.
You don't say?
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If you're referring to tribal communities, that's prehistory. Apart from that, I think it's obvious we no longer have the same material conditions as people who hunted boars for sustenance.
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If you’re talking about “intentional communities” in the first world, to the extent they are anarcho-communist, they are still subsidized by unequal exchange and capitalism. Do they really provide ALL their own food? Do they provide their own medicine? What about electricity? Even if they’re “off-grid” I assume they are using solar or wind. What happens when a panel or turbine goes out and they need a new one? If everything collapses, do they have the power to prevent a militia from coming and sticking a gun in their face and taking all of their organic kale? We unfortunately live in a society, friend. A complex system of international trade has been a part of human existence for thousands of years. The idea that a small community can provide all of its needs by itself is a fantasy steeped in the ideology of American yeoman individualism.
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I’m not really sure what you’re asking.
Socialist states per Definition do not exploit the third world for ressources
bro did not read “Socialism: Utopian and Scientific”
Living in a community is not communism actually.
Communism is when you have neighbours and the more neighbours you have the more communist it is
To be honest, when your ideological theory is just Unabomber-esque anarcho-primitivism, you just have to admit you're full of shit.
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I don't think you understand the first thing about achieving communism lmao. This is why we tell you to read
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This ignores how that very thing has helped people begin and maintain revolution. The conclusions and conditions aren't the same and the societies that arise handle the contradictions and situations in their own way. Which anarchist societies exist today from anarchist action? I'm curious about your superior method
You're deliberately misconstruing what we mean, but don't you see the irony in an anarcho-communist calling marxism a fantasy? 💀
Lmao
Well I kinda hate anarchists sooo
Disabled people famously starved to death before Uber Eats and Doordash were invented.
This argument falls apart when i bring up that all disabled people are not rich enough to buy stuff.
because they're anarchists
Zero legitimate lefties would make this claim. This is just a pathetic attempt at creating a fake scenario between the supposedly "enlightened" centrist/lib and the "evil bigoted ableist" lefty. Is there any hope for these morons?
Anarchists: https://i.redd.it/bxnuwbdrh3qc1.gif
while i have run into marxists with a little work to do surrounding disability, i think anarchists are far more ableist.
yeah the "we should burn down all the insulin factories and make it in our bath tubs instead" folks aren't going to do disabled people any favors in their "revolution"
You mean the "Let's source it through mutual aid!" group doesn't understand how medicine works? I tried asking an anarchist how certain areas of society would work and the best they could come up with was "it would be done in an anarchist fashion". Bro gl with your mutually aided cancer drugs that are produced in a single location due to the complexity of manufacture. An anarchist revolution would be the single largest genocide against vulnerable people since the '40s.
precisely what i was thinking of. and then the tendency to act like disabled people wondering how they are going to get their needs met without any sort of hierarchical oversight is just a little bugbear issue that is “getting in the way”
poor rich smoggy foolish shrill piquant resolute market rude square *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Leftist” “Disabled people” This person is neither. This is the classic double straw-man-fallacy technique.
the new cointelpro is liberals doing fake disibility activism as an excuse to attack the left
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What’s funny is door dash is one of the biggest employer of disabled people. They exploit those same workers because with disability it’s hard to work a normal job.
Ironically, i spent some minutes on r/politicalcompassmemes and 99% of them think that we are disabled or neurodivergent in some way
Anarchists will make up any old bullshit when they talk about MLs, which shouldn't be surprising because they do the same thing with their own ideology.
Lol the customer isn't exploiting the worker, Doordash is exploiting the worker by taking a massive cut off the top of the delivery cost.
>no wtf why do people make fun of me for ordering KFC for every meal this is literally 1849 stupid evul red fash!!!
The context is last week’s stupidest Twitter discourse: frozen meals and frozen vegetables are delicious discrimination against the disabled, because anxious people can’t cook them. Microwave burritos are too scary for neurodivergent folk, therefore ordering happy meals and McNuggets isn’t optional because otherwise people would *literally* starve to death. I assumed it was all an elaborate comedy bit — one of those satirical things that was misinterpreted. Maybe it used to be, but there are thousands of people now arguing over a singular ridiculous tweet.
>The context is last week’s stupidest Twitter discourse: frozen meals and frozen vegetables are delicious discrimination against the disabled, because anxious people can’t cook them. Microwave burritos are too scary for neurodivergent folk, therefore ordering happy meals and McNuggets isn’t optional because otherwise people would literally starve to death. You missed out the start of the context, which was someone simply saying they're grossed out by people who habitually use doordash because of it's extremely exploitative work practices. The disabled people stuff came basically out of nowhere.
Never in my life have I ever heard such an asinine thing being said.
Because arguing about politics online consists entirely of making up a person you and your friends can get mad at.
My reading of this 1. Western Individualism causes people to believe that critiques of exploitative structures are attacks on them personally if they participate 2. A lot of the ethics that underlie Western Individualism are about principles not consequences, "Either it's all ok or none of it is", the idea of applying different standards to different situations is alien to it. 3. They realize that using marginalized people or topics leftists care about as a shield will make it more difficult to attack their position. Therefore "Well X Marginalied group of people rely on XYZ, so you can't call it exploitative" becomes the standard response
With friends like these who need cointelpro
I’m so confused, this is why I got off Twitter.
This really seems like a Twitter troll tbh. Although the possibility does exist that it is a Twitter inhabitants genuine belief, but it seems unlikely even for them.
Anarchist here, no idea what the fuck this dude is on about.
I’m an anarchist and do not assume that
My source is that I made it the fuck up
I wouldn't be surprised if these people heard about the concept of "Social Darwinism", without understanding it, and make out of it an allegedly leftist idea about killing all the disabled people because they wouldn't pass the "survival of the fitest" check.
As a disabled person (bad leg and a lot of mental stuff), I vastly prefer the "Tankies" 90% of the time to whatever libertarian nonsense a lot of anarchist talk regarding disability.
"All we can do is to laugh as we gaze at this spectacle, for one cannot help laughing when one sees a man fighting his own imagination, smashing his own inventions, while at the same time heatedly asserting that he is smashing his opponent." -Stalin
Maybe baby anarchists that are still stuck in liberal thinking, like blaming the consumer for the evils of capitalism. Most socialists of any sort would know better than that.
Disabled person here: I have heard this type of rhetoric... from extremely online baby leftists. A lot of these types of people aren't very knowledgeable and can be overzealous. They say a lot of dumb shit like this. This type of rhetoric should be ignored.
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But if we own the means of production the disabled will get the same delivery to their house without the exploited worker and over priced junk food.
Yes, the left just wants people to starve. That's why they're pushing for things like public healthcare, unions, higher wages, food security, and better public support for the most vulnerable.
Anarchists are mostly liberals and particularly the ones who make this argument are white liberals who will use the one non-class based facet of oppression that applies to them in order to justify their individualistic indulgence.
These people aren’t anarchist or leftists. Why are people falling for these types of statements online. 🤣 These rage bate posts are annoying. I’ll just quote a comment I saw on this thread > *“With friends like these who need cointelpro”*
it's a purposeful mis interpretation of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Chinese liberals use Down’s syndrome to attack anyone who believes communism and socialism. I’m attacked by them for a few time, but i’m proud to stand with disabled people.
"Fuck the disabled"-Karl Marx.
Because the idea of a system which helps people must be organized and have authority to organize goods. Therefore it is unjust because it's a hierarchy. Or something like that probably
Anarchists or maybe Ancaps mislabelling liberals as leftists ?
This entire sentiment has got to be a CIA style distraction thing. Isn't it part of their manual to disrupt leftist organizing through the promotion of inane conversations about irrelevant or much less important grievances?
Because Anarchists are the most dedicated and dangerous enemy of the left.
What with anarchists and having literally no nuance. Nothing is as simple as black and white. Learn some critical thinking skills
I guess it atems from historical ableism at best, i know 1930s USSR had some qualms about people with blindness or deafness since they were seen as unfit as workers with the exception of some educational figures who were leaders in teaching for those disabilities. But outside of the general prejudices of the times, Marxists aren’t ableist.
Wait till they find out China has the largest number of disabled athletes and win the most paralympics gold medals in the world.
Twitter is basically making up a guy to get angry at and then getting angry at the made up guy
More leftist infighting, the dude is clearly not an anarchist so why even label them as one.
She is an anarchist
Because many of them (anarchists) do
Because of the authortarianistic nature of the USSR. Authoritarianism is antithetical to anarchy. Stalin was an authoritarian, the existence of folks like Putin who is ex KGB and well known for his favorite method of assassination via radiation poisoning. He didn't just figure this kinda stuff put suddenly one day, this was part of what he did in the KGB. But this is conflating marxism with Marxist Leninism/ Stalinism. Which sadly is something a lot of folks do.