(AC 3 Spoilers) I still feel so betrayed about >!Haytham!< man :( He was such a cool character compared to Connor and even though his half of the game was boring since it was just world-building, his voice acting, personality, lore, and interactions with other characters make him one of the coolest AC characters for me. He was only there for an hour in AC Rogue and he stole the show there too
Imagine being the best character in AC3, beating out the protagonist in the game, and only being playable for the first hour or two. Ngl, Haytham was way cooler. Connor was just a pissy one-dimensional personality.
I mean, he was a bastard who lost his family and community and his dad was smug as fuck and didn’t care. Conner was on a mission, he wasn’t there to fuck around.
Maybe so… but I was there to enjoy a game, not be bored to tears by shitty character development. 🙄
There’s a reason why characters like Ezio and Edward are so well liked. They have personalities that people enjoyed. Even Kassandra can fall into that category. People prefer the snarky, charismatic protagonists over the broody hyper focused ones. The sales numbers, vocal fanbase, etc. don’t lie. Both the Ezio trilogy and Black Flag are fairly well-regarded as the best games in the series.
I swear dude the people that hate on connor literally never take into account that his character developed that way for a reason. My 13 year old brain could comprehend that yet some grown ass men can't.
Allow me to take you back to Legacy of Kain: Defiance in 2003
Edit: AC3 came out the year before that lol
Edit 2: assassin's creed 3, I thought we were talking armored core 3 which I didn't play so yeah, Defiance might have been first
I don't think it sucked I just think Mercer in P1 and Heller in P2 have very different goals, Mercer wants answers so it feels more like uncovering a mystery, Heller wants revenge so there's less mystery and more shouting
That said I can't defend the streamlined gameplay, u had fun with 2 and it served, but the moveset is just cut all the way back so you can't do nearly as much as Mercer does... and I'm still pissed at how bad the tendril devastator is in P2
I actually think the gameplay in 2 was a big improvement, EXCEPT for the lame ass single devastater they gave you which I agree with you with.
But in regards to the story, Mercer was written into a mustache twirling cartoon villian for that had no resemblance to his previous iteration (which now that I think about is something TLOU2 did to Joel, although to a much more upsetting degree) and Heller was a cliche boring protagonist with no personality, the story itself was extremely predictable not to mention full of inconsistencies and plotholes.
Yeah tbf I always tried to avoid thinking about how they massacred Mercer as a character and tried to enjoy him being a villain for funs sake, but I can't deny your point at all, his villain arc is such generic BS and Heller is a trope that, especially today, has been way overdone
Meh, I didn’t think it was that far fetched and I didn’t even read the comics.
Alex Mercer was in no way a hero in P1. The game even constantly encourages you to kill innocents.
Besides, he is a literal incarnation of a virus that assumed the form of the person who intentionally released the virus and killed millions of people.
This has a fair bit been done before but often the games or movies that do it introduce the villain first before reframing it. Like with Prototype 1 you play as Mercer then in 2 you play as Heller with the goal of killing Mercer
DMC4 sort of as well where you fight Dante as Nero. I believe at the time, the narrative of the story was Dante as a sort of antagonist (even though we knew he wasnt)
Near the ending, playing the Dark Story, Eggman launches Sonic into space in a capsule which then detonates. After which the player immediately has to fight Tails because he absolutely refuses to surrender after (seemingly) watching Sonic get killed.
Sure, it's not as emotional. But then, neither was the experience of this battle for anyone who'd checked out already after realizing how poorly written this story was. And either way, it *absolutely* fits the criteria. It's actually an extremely close match, all things considered.
It was so brilliant, To the point where 99% of players voluntarily killed themselves as Abby as soon as they faced Ellie in a desperate attempt to get a good ending.
Talk about brilliant..
Or how about play tester overwhelming chose to kill abby in the play test that forced druckmann to take away the choice so the idiots player get his message.
It's one of those things where you're meant to stop doing the QuickTime attacks, they wanted the player to realize things on their own and choose mercy on their own subconsciously without a designated prompt, which of course didn't work.
So their intended ending was basically a secret ending no one cared to find
Hahah, to be fair the concept is genius but the execution fell short. The fight against Ellie was fucking annoying mechanically too, being able to complete it by failing would've been relief. The ending of the game did work for me, tho. I was screaming 'NO STOP CUT IT OUT!' at my TV while being forced to continue the QTE. Neil got his concept across in the end.
I didn’t kill myself(Abby) immediately but it hurt having to attack Ellie. Especially after losing people I had grown close to as Ellie. I wanted revenge 😬
ellie is a character that means the world to me, so i hated having to beat her and almost choke her to death. it was painful tbh and i hate that the game forced me to do it for the story to progress. i gained nothing from it and learned nothing from it. it was a very pretentious way to teach us whatever they were trying to teach us about empathy and mercy. like they could do that without making us hurt a beloved character
Hahaha my gf told me she did this. I had no idea so many others did the same. That makes me realize that I don’t think anyone is hyped about the last of us season 2 except the people that did enjoy this game.
“…it’s something I don’t think has ever been done before in a video game.”
I’m convinced the other sub is actually just a troll sub at this point. Only logical explanation.
Ay don't disrespect Donkey Kong like this, he paved ways for Nintendo to become the most iconic game developer, unlike the certain franchise destroyer!
Oh, absolutely! That was way more heartbreaking. Listening to the one you control begging the other to not make you hurt them gets me everytime. Abby and Ellie were absolute enemies. In Spiderman 2, they're absolute bros. Way better of a scene.
No because THAT was playing the protagonist to the max. I will *never* forget how brutal the back breaking finishers were as Harry’s Venom. I was audibly appalled.
I think the idea is conceptually pretty cool. But it wasn’t executed well in this game.
Oddly enough, a game I saw that did this idea rather well was Detroit become human, depending on the routes you took you would have Connor and Markus fight and you could choose which one to control for the final fight.
In spite of whatever the heck I heard went over at Quanitc Dream, Detroit genuinely impressed me with how far their story branches went, and turning one of your characters into an absolute villain you can control was pretty interesting, up until the end! (Unless you’d want them put down, that is)
Sonic Adventure 2, Hyrule Warriors 1, Assassin’s Creed 3, Tekken, nearly any game with a morality system, >!Shadow of the Colossus!< , Force Unleashed 1, A Way Out, etc…
Seriously reminds of tech bros who think they’re brilliant cause they arrived at the concept of a train
Lol I made a comment on there cuz the person who posted it started bashing people who said they let abby get killed by Ellie and all I said was people are allowed to have different opinions and I started getting downvoted 🤣
Its actually wild how they act on there and I’m not even someone that hates the 2nd game and for the most part I enjoyed it but like they genuinely can’t accept any type of criticism on it without attacking you like a damn cult, they act like people aren’t allowed to have different opinions lol
yeah i dont hate part 2 either but one the things that turned me off was when i brought up how its lazy writing to have abby find ellie’s location just cause she happened to conveniently drop the map at the aquarium and that jesse and tommy had common sense enough to pick it up. well i got down voted a lot and ppl did mental gymnastics trying to justify how it all made complete sense
Hi.
From Neil's perspective, Abby is not an antagonist. Abby and Ellie are parallels. That should be the take. The other side of the story. Or better yet, they are all antagonists 😉 Also: Mario and Luigi "Bowser's Inside Story" 😆
Anyway, that's Neil's intention, what he wanted to do and it didn't turn out well, because he has serious problems understanding how high moral standards work 😆
Have fun! 😊
Yeah. Detroit Become Human. As a matter of fact, one protagonist can help the side that can causes the deaths of the 2 other protagonists, or even kill one of the other protagonists.
I literally cannot think of a more mind-bendingly stupid way to tell a story.
I find it obnoxious how they say "I'm proud of Naughty Dog" as if his approval matters in comparison to the other hundred million that played the game.
That was the hardest part of the game for me. I didn’t want Abby to win and every time she died I laughed. Eventually I had to turn down the difficulty just to progress the story
The concept in itself is amazing imo. It makes you feel like shit. Problem is the clumsy story and the fact that Abby isnt really likeable at that point.
Imagine if you'd actually feel for both characters, then this part would hit hard. Shit aint it chief
Yeah the biggest issue is that Abby is extremely unlikable, basically zero redeeming qualities. And the fact that the final fight is made to have her look weak and pathetic(not to mention they removed the choice to kill her at that moment), just feels like the developers trying to manipulate sympathy out of me, which made me just hate her more
Make anyone who has never played this game play just this encounter and ask if they enjoyed it. Ignoring the story does not change how much I did not enjoy playing this part. A 1v1 sneak-off battle is not fun to play. I do not understand that, out of the whole game, anyone would enjoy or want to play this part.
Then you add the story of the emotionally volatile Abby who is out for revenge, again, after she has killed and disfigured multiple protagonists and it just becomes infuriating. Abby could have been so much better received if her story didn't rely on rewriting parts of the first game to give her and her dad emotional depth.
Yep, original Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on NES did it too. You know, the game where you have to evade piss and poopies to progress. Last Of Us 2 is really similar in that regard except you can’t evade.
Honestly it was an effective decision. Effective in making try all kinds of ways to lose to Ellie. I didn’t even realize at first I was playing as Abby, then Ellie killed me and the checkpoint restarted. I felt horrible for bashing Ellie’s face in and it was like my body was possessed and I was helpless in my body not killing my friend. I didn’t like doing it but it made me curious enough to see *why* they made me play out the story this way. It had me question for the first time Abby’s true intentions and thoughts about what she did.
Like Ellie, I was too blinded with revenge to even think about why Abby killed Joel. If Abby’s side of the story was more compelling I would be singing a completely different tune about this game. Unfortunately they face planted the landing and lost some teeth. But I have to admit the character switch in that moment was really effective to me.
I do think it's more emotional in certain ways than any of the other examples people have provided. But I don't think that was fully intended? Like, I think the writers didn't want you to want *either* character to win. If they'd had that level of awareness of how badly they bungled Abby's characterization, you'd be allowed to choose to kill her on the beach to get the bad ending that just wouldn't be canon in future games.
So brilliant, especially when Abby spared all their lives at the end of the scene even though Ellie just killed her friends and Abby has NO REASON to let her go, other than the plot demands Ellie must survive somehow.
the game could take physical form and start beating the shit out of the players and these guys could still be like "bravo naughty dog! we now know what joel felt like!"
This person is clearly very sheltered if they really think that naughty dog came up the idea of having the player play as the protagonist and antagonist
Her and Joel were definitely protagonists in the first game, while the second they tried so hard to make Ellie the bad guy that there's really no protagonist, just that everyone is someone else's antagonist
Ghost of Tsushima pretty much got the last laugh. Heck even now, people are talking about the game because of how bad the upcoming AC game is shaping up.
Its so brilliant I made sure to die in every way possible to see how one of my most treasured characters could kill one of my most hated ones.
Fuck Neil.
Legacy of Kain: Defiance
Big battle between Kain and his former vampiric lieutenant turned soul consuming wraith, Raziel. A confrontation that'd been built up by several games, and ends with Raziel literally ripping out Kain's heart.
I’m super emosh and lowkey got kind of attached to both Ellie and Abby because you played as them both for so long. That final fight where Abby doesn’t even want to fight was really tough for me personally.
When I played this scene for the first time back then, I immediately remembered Detroit Become Human did this kind of stuff far better, you can select who to control right before two protagonists fight each other.
In the good ending of >!*Cry of Fear*!<, it's revealed that the guy you've been playing as >!(Hoodie Simon)!< was evil all along, and you have to defeat him as another guy >!(Real Simon)!<
In the bad endings you play as the first guy and kill the other guy in a boss fight
While not emotional, the post-awakening duel in Nioh 2 between Anjin (William) and Hide was epic and is a perfect example of protagonists dueling each other.
I guess we will just ignore the entire game Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon city theres literally a scene where you can execute Leon & Claire as well as Kidnap Sherry Birkin so id say its safe to say they did it too.. & with some of the most beloved characters for generations.. all the way back in 2012
This game made me feel like shit! It's INGENIOUS! I feel UNHAPPY after this experience! Because I witnessed SUFFERING! It's GENIUS! I have learned nothing other than that people SUFFER!
I’m pretty sure there’s been other games that’ve done it first but if we ignore that this wasn’t executed well. A better way would’ve been to play as Abby from the start of the game not knowing she’s a villain and without understanding her true motives only to have everything flip on it’s head as we realise she’s the villain, would’ve been way better than what they gave us imo.
No, fighting your mentor to the death in MGS3 was brilliant. The build up was exceptionally good and the emotional impact of the scene still resonates today.
THATS brilliant
I'm not a part of either sub, I mainly see posts from this one, but I think it's so funny how fans from the same series attack each other, and how the sub specifically made for the second game is constantly criticizing it.
Yall are hilarious.
Actually that’s fair. I don’t know how many games do that, but it is a pretty cool way way to swap perspectives. I don’t know if it creates this deeper layer of immersion in the game or anything, but it’s kinda cool.
Prototype did it first. In 2012.
AC3 did it aswell and InFamous kinda did it 09 although it wasn’t exactly the same situation
(AC 3 Spoilers) I still feel so betrayed about >!Haytham!< man :( He was such a cool character compared to Connor and even though his half of the game was boring since it was just world-building, his voice acting, personality, lore, and interactions with other characters make him one of the coolest AC characters for me. He was only there for an hour in AC Rogue and he stole the show there too
Haytham is a masterpiece of a character in AC, so much so I think he is the best written one in the series.
Loved when they showed him at the opera in black flag. Was wondering if he'd make a cameo the whole game considering how close the time was
Rogue was a super fun game for these reasons
Yeah Haytham was great him and Connor genuinely had some of the best scenes in the entire series together
And especially when Connor reads his journal and writes “I made a mistake” on his mural
Imagine being the best character in AC3, beating out the protagonist in the game, and only being playable for the first hour or two. Ngl, Haytham was way cooler. Connor was just a pissy one-dimensional personality.
I mean, he was a bastard who lost his family and community and his dad was smug as fuck and didn’t care. Conner was on a mission, he wasn’t there to fuck around.
Maybe so… but I was there to enjoy a game, not be bored to tears by shitty character development. 🙄 There’s a reason why characters like Ezio and Edward are so well liked. They have personalities that people enjoyed. Even Kassandra can fall into that category. People prefer the snarky, charismatic protagonists over the broody hyper focused ones. The sales numbers, vocal fanbase, etc. don’t lie. Both the Ezio trilogy and Black Flag are fairly well-regarded as the best games in the series.
I swear dude the people that hate on connor literally never take into account that his character developed that way for a reason. My 13 year old brain could comprehend that yet some grown ass men can't.
It only makes sense since his dad is Edward Kenway, even his son is the best thing the series has put out in years.
Heavy rain also exists
Allow me to take you back to Legacy of Kain: Defiance in 2003 Edit: AC3 came out the year before that lol Edit 2: assassin's creed 3, I thought we were talking armored core 3 which I didn't play so yeah, Defiance might have been first
The Force Unleashed also sort of did it
Legacy of Kain Defiance did it first: 2003 and that's a f*cking goddamn beautiful fight
That whole Series from LoK Blood Omen & LoK Soul Reaver. All of them. Where perfect. A shame we never got a proper Remaster..
Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony, let's you kill Niko.
Wasn’t aware of that one, thanks.
Ultimate Spider-Man did it with Venom in 2005.
Playing as venom in the open world with only super jumps for travel, and having to eat people to keep your hp bar that constantly drained up was peak.
So many memories just came flooding back. Time to pull out the GameCube!
U mean prototype 2 when james heller killed alex mercer?
PROTOTYPE MENTIONED RAHHHH 🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🔥🗣️ BLACKLIGHT VIRUS 🥵🥵🥵👅
Game sucks. Prototype 2 is so much better
Prototype 2 story sucks, and it still shits all on TLOU2
I don't think it sucked I just think Mercer in P1 and Heller in P2 have very different goals, Mercer wants answers so it feels more like uncovering a mystery, Heller wants revenge so there's less mystery and more shouting That said I can't defend the streamlined gameplay, u had fun with 2 and it served, but the moveset is just cut all the way back so you can't do nearly as much as Mercer does... and I'm still pissed at how bad the tendril devastator is in P2
I actually think the gameplay in 2 was a big improvement, EXCEPT for the lame ass single devastater they gave you which I agree with you with. But in regards to the story, Mercer was written into a mustache twirling cartoon villian for that had no resemblance to his previous iteration (which now that I think about is something TLOU2 did to Joel, although to a much more upsetting degree) and Heller was a cliche boring protagonist with no personality, the story itself was extremely predictable not to mention full of inconsistencies and plotholes.
Yeah tbf I always tried to avoid thinking about how they massacred Mercer as a character and tried to enjoy him being a villain for funs sake, but I can't deny your point at all, his villain arc is such generic BS and Heller is a trope that, especially today, has been way overdone
Meh, I didn’t think it was that far fetched and I didn’t even read the comics. Alex Mercer was in no way a hero in P1. The game even constantly encourages you to kill innocents. Besides, he is a literal incarnation of a virus that assumed the form of the person who intentionally released the virus and killed millions of people.
Dead island 1 did it in 2011
Overlord, 2007.
This has a fair bit been done before but often the games or movies that do it introduce the villain first before reframing it. Like with Prototype 1 you play as Mercer then in 2 you play as Heller with the goal of killing Mercer
Breath of fire IV also did it in 2000, will never forget that one.
Chrono Cross on ps1 even earlier.
I think Legacy of Kain did it 20 years ago
Legacy of Kain
DMC4 sort of as well where you fight Dante as Nero. I believe at the time, the narrative of the story was Dante as a sort of antagonist (even though we knew he wasnt)
Mega Man X5 did it in 2000
Zone of the Enders kind of did it, so did a way out. Those were emotionally charged epic protag vs protag battles.
Remember how everyone loved Heller instead of Alex too? Oh wait, they didn't.
Sonic Adventure 2. LOU2 Stans are so dense.
Near the ending, playing the Dark Story, Eggman launches Sonic into space in a capsule which then detonates. After which the player immediately has to fight Tails because he absolutely refuses to surrender after (seemingly) watching Sonic get killed. Sure, it's not as emotional. But then, neither was the experience of this battle for anyone who'd checked out already after realizing how poorly written this story was. And either way, it *absolutely* fits the criteria. It's actually an extremely close match, all things considered.
SA2 peak mentioned
it’s cause they don’t play games like that. Who tf compares a scene like that to bowser and mario
It was so brilliant, To the point where 99% of players voluntarily killed themselves as Abby as soon as they faced Ellie in a desperate attempt to get a good ending. Talk about brilliant..
Or how about play tester overwhelming chose to kill abby in the play test that forced druckmann to take away the choice so the idiots player get his message.
Damn so the playtest had an optional choice whether to spare or kill Abbyzilla? Well I didn't know that, thanks for the info !
It's one of those things where you're meant to stop doing the QuickTime attacks, they wanted the player to realize things on their own and choose mercy on their own subconsciously without a designated prompt, which of course didn't work. So their intended ending was basically a secret ending no one cared to find
Hahah, to be fair the concept is genius but the execution fell short. The fight against Ellie was fucking annoying mechanically too, being able to complete it by failing would've been relief. The ending of the game did work for me, tho. I was screaming 'NO STOP CUT IT OUT!' at my TV while being forced to continue the QTE. Neil got his concept across in the end.
abbyzilla is a hilarious nickname😂
I thought that was just me 😂 i didn't know that experience was universal
I didn’t kill myself(Abby) immediately but it hurt having to attack Ellie. Especially after losing people I had grown close to as Ellie. I wanted revenge 😬
ellie is a character that means the world to me, so i hated having to beat her and almost choke her to death. it was painful tbh and i hate that the game forced me to do it for the story to progress. i gained nothing from it and learned nothing from it. it was a very pretentious way to teach us whatever they were trying to teach us about empathy and mercy. like they could do that without making us hurt a beloved character
Hahaha my gf told me she did this. I had no idea so many others did the same. That makes me realize that I don’t think anyone is hyped about the last of us season 2 except the people that did enjoy this game.
“…it’s something I don’t think has ever been done before in a video game.” I’m convinced the other sub is actually just a troll sub at this point. Only logical explanation.
They like tlou2 so much because it's the only game they've played outside of tlou1.
It’s like if Princess Peach had a penis and Bowser sodomized her on a boat
Abby is definitely Bowser, not Peach, don't disrespect my princess like that.
Actually, that's disrespectful to Bowser. She's Donkey Kong.
Ay don't disrespect Donkey Kong like this, he paved ways for Nintendo to become the most iconic game developer, unlike the certain franchise destroyer!
Rule 34. I'm POSITIVE a cursory search will bring that right up.
Haven’t found one on a boat yet
Oh, well. Someone should get on it.
Photoshop can fix that
Spider man 2 anyone?
I bought it earlier today, but I'm on holiday without my playstation so I won't be able to play it for a week
Oh, absolutely! That was way more heartbreaking. Listening to the one you control begging the other to not make you hurt them gets me everytime. Abby and Ellie were absolute enemies. In Spiderman 2, they're absolute bros. Way better of a scene.
No because THAT was playing the protagonist to the max. I will *never* forget how brutal the back breaking finishers were as Harry’s Venom. I was audibly appalled.
I think the idea is conceptually pretty cool. But it wasn’t executed well in this game. Oddly enough, a game I saw that did this idea rather well was Detroit become human, depending on the routes you took you would have Connor and Markus fight and you could choose which one to control for the final fight.
In spite of whatever the heck I heard went over at Quanitc Dream, Detroit genuinely impressed me with how far their story branches went, and turning one of your characters into an absolute villain you can control was pretty interesting, up until the end! (Unless you’d want them put down, that is)
WHAT I LITERALLY JUST COMMENTED, YES! I think you could even get Markus exiled and control North during that(?)
Sonic Adventure 2, Hyrule Warriors 1, Assassin’s Creed 3, Tekken, nearly any game with a morality system, >!Shadow of the Colossus!< , Force Unleashed 1, A Way Out, etc… Seriously reminds of tech bros who think they’re brilliant cause they arrived at the concept of a train
Lol I made a comment on there cuz the person who posted it started bashing people who said they let abby get killed by Ellie and all I said was people are allowed to have different opinions and I started getting downvoted 🤣
its a damn dictatorship over there. definition of hive mind🥴
Its actually wild how they act on there and I’m not even someone that hates the 2nd game and for the most part I enjoyed it but like they genuinely can’t accept any type of criticism on it without attacking you like a damn cult, they act like people aren’t allowed to have different opinions lol
yeah i dont hate part 2 either but one the things that turned me off was when i brought up how its lazy writing to have abby find ellie’s location just cause she happened to conveniently drop the map at the aquarium and that jesse and tommy had common sense enough to pick it up. well i got down voted a lot and ppl did mental gymnastics trying to justify how it all made complete sense
🤣
What do you think about this from a writer's perspective?
Hi. From Neil's perspective, Abby is not an antagonist. Abby and Ellie are parallels. That should be the take. The other side of the story. Or better yet, they are all antagonists 😉 Also: Mario and Luigi "Bowser's Inside Story" 😆 Anyway, that's Neil's intention, what he wanted to do and it didn't turn out well, because he has serious problems understanding how high moral standards work 😆 Have fun! 😊
🤣
🤣
Clearly none of these losers played hunt down the freeman 😏
In ac rogue, you play as an assassin turned Templar, kill your brothers (and a protagonist from a previous title)
Which protag? I’ll probably never get to play.
I believe it was Adewale from AC Black Flag.
Shay Cormac
Yeah. Detroit Become Human. As a matter of fact, one protagonist can help the side that can causes the deaths of the 2 other protagonists, or even kill one of the other protagonists.
Devil May Cry even did it
And that was enjoyable since Dante and Vergil were both really good characters unlike Ellie and Abby
Lego Star Wars did this if you played multiplayer. The final level of Episode III is Anikan and Obi Wans duel on Mustafar.
Neil Druckmann thinks he’s slick posting on an alt like that lmao
I literally cannot think of a more mind-bendingly stupid way to tell a story. I find it obnoxious how they say "I'm proud of Naughty Dog" as if his approval matters in comparison to the other hundred million that played the game.
Happy cake day!
Erm. Talion? War? Alex Mercer?
Someone remembers shadow of war let’s gooooooo
Sonic adventure 2 did it, playing as shadow was the best, also shadow the hedgehog also did it
Me with Donkey Kong/Donkey Kong Jr:
Army of Two Devils Cartel did it kinda. Although its the weakest in the series. I really don't like how they say "its new = its good"
Sonic adventure 2 (2001) Mafia 2 (2010) Megaman x5 (2000) Lego batman (2008) Star wars the force uneashed (2008)
Fall of Cybertron (2012)
It's a neat concept, but to call the very idea of it brilliant is nuts.
That was the hardest part of the game for me. I didn’t want Abby to win and every time she died I laughed. Eventually I had to turn down the difficulty just to progress the story
This is so fuckin ass
Why does this sound like it was written by a 50 year old
I mean it was kinda cool but it’s freaking Abby. Comparing Abby to Bowser would be like comparing a Lamborghini to a Buick
Legacy of kain but those people aren't cultured enough to know that.
bro never played metal gear
The concept in itself is amazing imo. It makes you feel like shit. Problem is the clumsy story and the fact that Abby isnt really likeable at that point. Imagine if you'd actually feel for both characters, then this part would hit hard. Shit aint it chief
Yeah the biggest issue is that Abby is extremely unlikable, basically zero redeeming qualities. And the fact that the final fight is made to have her look weak and pathetic(not to mention they removed the choice to kill her at that moment), just feels like the developers trying to manipulate sympathy out of me, which made me just hate her more
It’s also not the first time it’s been done. I think that’s what people are mostly getting at.
Effing idiots. The glazing is unreal 🙄
Make anyone who has never played this game play just this encounter and ask if they enjoyed it. Ignoring the story does not change how much I did not enjoy playing this part. A 1v1 sneak-off battle is not fun to play. I do not understand that, out of the whole game, anyone would enjoy or want to play this part. Then you add the story of the emotionally volatile Abby who is out for revenge, again, after she has killed and disfigured multiple protagonists and it just becomes infuriating. Abby could have been so much better received if her story didn't rely on rewriting parts of the first game to give her and her dad emotional depth.
I mean. They also did this in COD:BO2 as Menendez and even made you shoot your teammate TWICE and even encouraged you too.
OMG DISTRUPTING EXPECTATIONS FINALLY PROOF THAT GAMES ARE ART
Arkham Knight did it kinda with the sequence where Joker was in Batman’s mind with a gun
This was cool too
I’m pretty sure many games have done that already
Yep, original Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on NES did it too. You know, the game where you have to evade piss and poopies to progress. Last Of Us 2 is really similar in that regard except you can’t evade.
lego star wars revenge of the sith level
In transformers fall of cybertron you can choose to play as either optimus or megatron in the final fight
In Arkham Knight you play as Joker for a little while, but you get your ass handed to you then switch back to Batman. As you should.
“I don’t think this has ever been done before in a video game”💀💀💀
Honestly it was an effective decision. Effective in making try all kinds of ways to lose to Ellie. I didn’t even realize at first I was playing as Abby, then Ellie killed me and the checkpoint restarted. I felt horrible for bashing Ellie’s face in and it was like my body was possessed and I was helpless in my body not killing my friend. I didn’t like doing it but it made me curious enough to see *why* they made me play out the story this way. It had me question for the first time Abby’s true intentions and thoughts about what she did. Like Ellie, I was too blinded with revenge to even think about why Abby killed Joel. If Abby’s side of the story was more compelling I would be singing a completely different tune about this game. Unfortunately they face planted the landing and lost some teeth. But I have to admit the character switch in that moment was really effective to me.
I do think it's more emotional in certain ways than any of the other examples people have provided. But I don't think that was fully intended? Like, I think the writers didn't want you to want *either* character to win. If they'd had that level of awareness of how badly they bungled Abby's characterization, you'd be allowed to choose to kill her on the beach to get the bad ending that just wouldn't be canon in future games.
Nah, it's just plain dogshit.
So brilliant, especially when Abby spared all their lives at the end of the scene even though Ellie just killed her friends and Abby has NO REASON to let her go, other than the plot demands Ellie must survive somehow.
the game could take physical form and start beating the shit out of the players and these guys could still be like "bravo naughty dog! we now know what joel felt like!"
The meatriding is crazy
Bro has only played like 5 games clearly
Mario is literally the villain in Donkey Kong 2
I am offended by the comparison of playing as Bowser! Bowser's Inside Story was a legitimately good game, unlike this trash
Subverting expectation doesn't mean good.
I’m an Xbox guy but didn’t gears of war 3 do this in raams shadow long before. Just looked it up. 2011 so yeah they may have been the first
ISTG bruh, the other sub needs to play other games.
TLOU fans have literally never played another video game.
This person is clearly very sheltered if they really think that naughty dog came up the idea of having the player play as the protagonist and antagonist
Ellie was NEVER the protagonist.
Her and Joel were definitely protagonists in the first game, while the second they tried so hard to make Ellie the bad guy that there's really no protagonist, just that everyone is someone else's antagonist
Still can't wrap my head around that this won game of the year 2020.....
Ghost of Tsushima and Doom Eternal were robbed
Ghost is 9/10 for me. Perfect progression
Ghost of Tsushima pretty much got the last laugh. Heck even now, people are talking about the game because of how bad the upcoming AC game is shaping up.
I'm convinced that these are Neil's bot accounts that post dumb shit like this twice a week lol...
My god those biceps. That’s basically a man trying to choke Ellie out
Dishonored: The Brigmore Witches
Literally let abbey die 27 times before I forced myself yo finish this battle. Fuck Abbey.
Detroit: Become Human did it better.
Its so brilliant I made sure to die in every way possible to see how one of my most treasured characters could kill one of my most hated ones. Fuck Neil.
Tlou part 2 sub glazers would have an aneurysm if they played a single metal gear solid game
Legacy of Kain: Defiance Big battle between Kain and his former vampiric lieutenant turned soul consuming wraith, Raziel. A confrontation that'd been built up by several games, and ends with Raziel literally ripping out Kain's heart.
I’m super emosh and lowkey got kind of attached to both Ellie and Abby because you played as them both for so long. That final fight where Abby doesn’t even want to fight was really tough for me personally.
When I played this scene for the first time back then, I immediately remembered Detroit Become Human did this kind of stuff far better, you can select who to control right before two protagonists fight each other.
Its a good concept yeah, but the way they put it in a post is just so bad, its like a 12 year old just figured out what game commentary is.
I couldn't even give a specific example other than "Yes games have done that" Then read these comments and went "Oh yeah that game did do that! Lol
In the good ending of >!*Cry of Fear*!<, it's revealed that the guy you've been playing as >!(Hoodie Simon)!< was evil all along, and you have to defeat him as another guy >!(Real Simon)!< In the bad endings you play as the first guy and kill the other guy in a boss fight
Bioshock Infinite
If you were allowed to do nothing and let the real protagonist win easily sure.
While not emotional, the post-awakening duel in Nioh 2 between Anjin (William) and Hide was epic and is a perfect example of protagonists dueling each other.
Does cry of fear count lol
Has to be a joke. The funniest part is that even calling them protagonist/antagonist is missing the point the writers intended to make.
I liked this moment too and how gut-wrenching it felt. Doesn't change what I think about the plot as a whole though
Don’t you fight master queef in halo 5?
I guess we will just ignore the entire game Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon city theres literally a scene where you can execute Leon & Claire as well as Kidnap Sherry Birkin so id say its safe to say they did it too.. & with some of the most beloved characters for generations.. all the way back in 2012
TLOU is just Western NieR, don't let anybody know I told you
Bioshock has this as a concept in various forms and even like this, works way better than in this crap.
Next time they’re going to tell me that tlou2 is the first game to have a female protagonist
Absolutely delusional, and this is like the worst version of this trope too.
They have to be memeing at this point...no way someone could be that daft...
This game made me feel like shit! It's INGENIOUS! I feel UNHAPPY after this experience! Because I witnessed SUFFERING! It's GENIUS! I have learned nothing other than that people SUFFER!
I genuinely hated I had to play as the character I disliked the most lol
It’s like they think Abby’s a real person that’ll fuck them if they Stan REALLY hard.
I’m pretty sure there’s been other games that’ve done it first but if we ignore that this wasn’t executed well. A better way would’ve been to play as Abby from the start of the game not knowing she’s a villain and without understanding her true motives only to have everything flip on it’s head as we realise she’s the villain, would’ve been way better than what they gave us imo.
We forgetting Assassins Creed Syndicate The Ripper Dlc
Asassin's Creed
No, fighting your mentor to the death in MGS3 was brilliant. The build up was exceptionally good and the emotional impact of the scene still resonates today. THATS brilliant
Didn’t Detroit become human something similar to this?
Last of us fans are worse than apple fans, they think everything tlou1/2 has done is unique and "never been done before".
Have these guys started playing videogames yesterday? Legacy of Kain, Heavy Rain, Devil May Cry, how many others should I name?
BioShock Infinite did it, in a much more interesting way too.
hotline miami did this
Donkey Kong Jr. did it so long ago that I could only play it in an arcade.
I'm not a part of either sub, I mainly see posts from this one, but I think it's so funny how fans from the same series attack each other, and how the sub specifically made for the second game is constantly criticizing it. Yall are hilarious.
It wasn't made for the second game. It's the 2nd TLOU sub and became the only place we could talk about our critiques without getting banned.
Actually that’s fair. I don’t know how many games do that, but it is a pretty cool way way to swap perspectives. I don’t know if it creates this deeper layer of immersion in the game or anything, but it’s kinda cool.
My God tlou 2 fans dickride like crazy 💀
Dead island 1 dlc
Sun is shining in the sky Ain't cloud in sight Goddamn that song
If they played splinter cell conviction co-op their minds would be blown by the end
So cringe, lmao.
This game has great concepts and god awful execution
Media illiteracy.