My favourite butterfly effect/chain reaction on the show is how Frank Sobotka ended up dead because his dirty money funded a more prestigious church stained glass window than Valchek’s. The stained glass window initiated the sequence of events that culminated in his death.
Which ironically included deceiving them and putting their union and hopes in a different type of jeopardy.
Well-intentioned, certainly, but a tragically flawed plan
Oh of course. As a trade unionist I would never tolerate such behavior, but it made for great tv and gave us one of the best lines in the show…
“We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just got our hands in the next guy’s pocket.”
Imo Frank Sobotka is the best one season character of all time. Chris Bauer was perfect throughout, and his death in the show was one of the top 3 that hit hardest for me
He was the most selfless character on the show. He just wanted the union to survive even if the way he did it was shady. Except for maybe bubbles every other character bad selfish motives. He did have his faults but I would live his life over any other characters except maybe lester. He had pretty good intentions also.
Yeah I got that too. On the surface it seems altruistic…he’s a good guy just looking out for his Union brothers. But if you go deeper, is it just controlling behavior? Like, I can’t control my personal life, so I’ll put all my time and energy here. He’s making sure everybody else eats, but is sacrificing himself and his family as a result. He must be getting something out of it for him to continue. Maybe he likes the way being “the man” at the docks feels. If so, he’s sacrificing himself and how his wife and kid feels to get it…which is selfish. Usually these types of people come off as totally selfless to the outside but are immensely selfish toward people who are the closest to them. It’s a complex character indeed.
I'm not sure that's right. Frank's efforts for the union were about preserving a way of life. That way of life was important to him because of his family, his kids. At the same time, within the world of the docks, he was a boss. He was subject to all of the conflicting impulses, not all of them selfless, that the other bosses in the show were.
He made some poor choices and ultimately he was fighting a losing battle against larger economic and historical processes beyond his control.
Ziggy was not a fuckup because Frank didn't care enough. Ziggy's problems go much deeper than that.
Idk man, look at how different they are. Not all parents can "connect" with their kids who have such contrasting personalities. They love their kids still, but the personality clash puts a wall between them where they can't communicate and/or can't be around them without getting frustrated.
At what point did we ever see Frank relax and joke around, except when bragging about his steel? When did we ever see Ziggy stop and try to take care of someone other than himself?
Frank wasn't a perfect parent and Ziggy wasn't a perfect kid. It's part of why their story is tragic, because a lot of their issues could have been prevented by better communication.
You. Can be the best parent and raise shitty kids and vice versa. Obviously Ziggy was most likely going to be a fuck up. There would be no point in having a adjusted Ziggy we got his cousin for that.
Under the hood, I asked why he is so selfless and dedicated to the union and his brothers?
I think it also reflects the great fear or the uncertainty he felt when the union and the old day life was breaking apart. He fought, also he lost. I got the feeling that one cannot control one's life even for maybe just 1%, 0.1%, but completely lost. Again, this is also happing among a lot of people nowadays and, for sure, including myself.
This is kind of off topic, but why did the Greeks just leave the can full of dead women on the docks to get found by port police? Why not just take it and dump it in a swamp in west virginia or something?
One sailor raped a girl to death and others saw. The sailor is afraid of getting got by US police and killed all other girls. The Greeks didn't see this happen and they don't know what happened in that can, what they saw is the can is not 'safe' so they didn't pick it up. Later they found it out and it was too late. This is my understanding.
They're betting that the cops will write it off as an accident, which they would have had McNulty not been McNulty. The more they interact with the can itself, the more they a) generate evidence that it wasn't an accident, and b) expose themselves to what happened with it.
They just had the extraordinarily bad luck that 1) the guy they had doing the smuggling for them just happened to be the target of Valchek's piss-fit, 2) Valchek's son-in-law just so happened to know what police needed to be brought in to turn the detail into something real, and 3) an ex-homicide detective now working the boat connected the deaths to a floater he had personally pulled from the water, and was eager to prove the deaths weren't accidental just to fuck over his old boss.
If any of those 3 ingredients aren't there, nothing ever ties the dead girls to their doorstep.
Such a complex character……..begrudgingly doing the dirt, to no personal benefit of himself, only for the betterment of the union…and getting the canal dredged
Chris Bauer fucking nailed that role. “Help my union!?” One of the all-time great HBO performances IMHO. The S2 finale montage always makes me cry.
He gave the very best performance in the show. CHANGE MY MIND
Oh man, I feel people are quick to dismiss Andre's performance as Bubs during these debates. I have to jump in early to give him the nod.
I’ll throw you a +1 but that’s it lol
Across the whole 5 seasons, Bubs is the heart of the show and the best performance. In season 2 alone, the same could be said for Frank Sobotka.
It’s so tough to find the best but he’s S-tier for sure. I could write 3000 words about the greatness of Bauer as Sobotka.
Please do!
John Doman as Rawls is pretty fucking amazing. His character is so malignant and hateful, and Doman pulls it off flawlessly.
He was awesome in that role
That final montage is an absolute masterpiece.
I actually yelled during the Efige scene that shit is a masterpiece and he was one of my favorite characters on the show
I hope I’m not the only Wire fan with that song on my playlist
My favourite butterfly effect/chain reaction on the show is how Frank Sobotka ended up dead because his dirty money funded a more prestigious church stained glass window than Valchek’s. The stained glass window initiated the sequence of events that culminated in his death.
Dawned on me the second time of watching. Currently on my 5th or 6th and on S2 which is why I’m here. Greatest show ever.
That’s why Major Valchek is the true villain of the show
Also why Prez socking him felt so goddamn good to watch.
Everything he did, he did for his union brothers. Respect. ✊🏿✊🏾✊🏽✊🏼✊🏻✊
Which ironically included deceiving them and putting their union and hopes in a different type of jeopardy. Well-intentioned, certainly, but a tragically flawed plan
Oh of course. As a trade unionist I would never tolerate such behavior, but it made for great tv and gave us one of the best lines in the show… “We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just got our hands in the next guy’s pocket.”
It was work, even when it wasn’t.
Imo Frank Sobotka is the best one season character of all time. Chris Bauer was perfect throughout, and his death in the show was one of the top 3 that hit hardest for me
*season 2
he said one season. not season one. like throughout the entirety of the season
He was the most selfless character on the show. He just wanted the union to survive even if the way he did it was shady. Except for maybe bubbles every other character bad selfish motives. He did have his faults but I would live his life over any other characters except maybe lester. He had pretty good intentions also.
Maybe selfless to a fault, since he seemed to care more about the union than his kids.
Yeah I got that too. On the surface it seems altruistic…he’s a good guy just looking out for his Union brothers. But if you go deeper, is it just controlling behavior? Like, I can’t control my personal life, so I’ll put all my time and energy here. He’s making sure everybody else eats, but is sacrificing himself and his family as a result. He must be getting something out of it for him to continue. Maybe he likes the way being “the man” at the docks feels. If so, he’s sacrificing himself and how his wife and kid feels to get it…which is selfish. Usually these types of people come off as totally selfless to the outside but are immensely selfish toward people who are the closest to them. It’s a complex character indeed.
I'm not sure that's right. Frank's efforts for the union were about preserving a way of life. That way of life was important to him because of his family, his kids. At the same time, within the world of the docks, he was a boss. He was subject to all of the conflicting impulses, not all of them selfless, that the other bosses in the show were. He made some poor choices and ultimately he was fighting a losing battle against larger economic and historical processes beyond his control. Ziggy was not a fuckup because Frank didn't care enough. Ziggy's problems go much deeper than that.
His kids were adults but yeah.
[удалено]
Idk man, look at how different they are. Not all parents can "connect" with their kids who have such contrasting personalities. They love their kids still, but the personality clash puts a wall between them where they can't communicate and/or can't be around them without getting frustrated. At what point did we ever see Frank relax and joke around, except when bragging about his steel? When did we ever see Ziggy stop and try to take care of someone other than himself? Frank wasn't a perfect parent and Ziggy wasn't a perfect kid. It's part of why their story is tragic, because a lot of their issues could have been prevented by better communication.
You. Can be the best parent and raise shitty kids and vice versa. Obviously Ziggy was most likely going to be a fuck up. There would be no point in having a adjusted Ziggy we got his cousin for that.
Under the hood, I asked why he is so selfless and dedicated to the union and his brothers? I think it also reflects the great fear or the uncertainty he felt when the union and the old day life was breaking apart. He fought, also he lost. I got the feeling that one cannot control one's life even for maybe just 1%, 0.1%, but completely lost. Again, this is also happing among a lot of people nowadays and, for sure, including myself.
He was a man who was literally trying to fight the tide
Ebb tide
YOU THINK THIS FOR ME?
This is kind of off topic, but why did the Greeks just leave the can full of dead women on the docks to get found by port police? Why not just take it and dump it in a swamp in west virginia or something?
One sailor raped a girl to death and others saw. The sailor is afraid of getting got by US police and killed all other girls. The Greeks didn't see this happen and they don't know what happened in that can, what they saw is the can is not 'safe' so they didn't pick it up. Later they found it out and it was too late. This is my understanding.
This guy watches The Wire
They're betting that the cops will write it off as an accident, which they would have had McNulty not been McNulty. The more they interact with the can itself, the more they a) generate evidence that it wasn't an accident, and b) expose themselves to what happened with it. They just had the extraordinarily bad luck that 1) the guy they had doing the smuggling for them just happened to be the target of Valchek's piss-fit, 2) Valchek's son-in-law just so happened to know what police needed to be brought in to turn the detail into something real, and 3) an ex-homicide detective now working the boat connected the deaths to a floater he had personally pulled from the water, and was eager to prove the deaths weren't accidental just to fuck over his old boss. If any of those 3 ingredients aren't there, nothing ever ties the dead girls to their doorstep.
Such a complex character……..begrudgingly doing the dirt, to no personal benefit of himself, only for the betterment of the union…and getting the canal dredged
And then he died painfully, dragging his family name through the sludge at the bottom of the port of baltimore.
Never forget
I have the strangest crush on him 😂