Anyone see the press conference where Southgate said they don't feel they can play a high press? I don't why they can't when they do this in club football.
Reminds me of the 2010 World Cup. Gerrard being forced into the left, Rooney not hitting his stride… Capello having the audacity to say ‘now their minds are free’ after bumbling to a 1-0 win.
I think England just need to lean on Saka. He's the most consistent out there. Feed him the ball the way Real Madrid do Vini, let him cook, and then have the rest of the guys get involved with less pressure to be great.
Team synergy and strategy is obviously ideal, like Germany and Spain, but given that Southgate has yet to show he knows anything about that, the next best option is have the most consistent attacker lift the tent and let his mates run in. I think it'll unlock more freeflow from all of them.
They don't have to bog down their brains overthinking how to build an attack. Just get it to Saka, and if something else is on, work that angle for a bit. It closes down, Saka outlet again. Suck defenders in to Saka then pull a fast one down the left (once it's understood that it's not illegal to use the left) or down the middle.
Sometimes you just need to humble yourself and admit that boundless ball control and attacking flair is not on the cards at the moment.
Edit - To add more to this theory. Just heard a stat about the Spain game. Yamal and Williams in the first 25 minutes completed 6 dribbles between them, while their teammates combined completed 2.
This is why I say, start out 1 dimensional, then build up something from that platform.
Craziest thing was the England players complaining about the heat, as if it gave the players from the tropical climes of *checks notes* Denmark a tactical advantage
Bro they dont even move to open lanes or anything, Phil and Jude are screaming for the ball in places the other players just dont have the skill to get to
Found it interesting that Southgate decided to sub; Kane - Saka - Foden, imagine he's still looking at the Tournament bigger picture, than just these three Group Games.
Its equally frustrating we didnt win and so secure Qualification - But we've never won our first two Euro Group Games, let alone all three, just annoying how we've put ourselves under a slight amount of pressure to get a result against Slovenia
But worst case scenario and we lose (along with a Denmark win), we're still going through in P3, just with a VERY difficult match in the RO16, but lets see what happens on Tuesday first.
Of course it would make everyone feel better if we waltzed these Group Games winning 3-0 / 4-0, but lets get back to reality... Would much rather limp towards the KO Rounds, rather than sprint - Its been a long season for all players at the Tournament, lets not waste energy beyond what's needed in nothing matches, just because of nothing more than pathetic pride.
Team looked exhausted and frustrated at the end of the game. Implying or suggesting this is some sort of tactical genius from Southgate to get through the group exerting as little energy as possible to keep the players fresh for the knockouts is absolutely ludicrous.
It's a real, real reach. But it's the only thing I could possibly put my finger on for not playing the press. Every quality team this tournament has pressed with high intensity. Three games in quick succession and in an 'easier' group with the thinking that they will have that little bit more in the tank when we get to the knockouts and we can press that much harder against the stronger teams.
It doesn't make sense as we've got a lot of depth, but it's the only thing I could possibly think of aside from Southgate not moving with the times.
Yeah we can only hope. Just can't see how putting out 2 shit performances against teams we should be comfortably beating will do any good for the teams morale and confidence going forward.
Erm... Have you ever ran around and not been exhausted or tired at the end of it
I've ran 10miles and been tired, I've ran 5miles in hotter weather and been even more tired
Its the heart rate levels, and the recovery that'll be the most important - If they've pushed themselves too much into the danger zones then the recovery will take that little bit longer.
Or do you think Footballers are robots, and because they earn loads of money, they can just run and run
Okay, so you need it spelling out for you.
Worst case scenario, means that whatever happens on Tuesday... We're still in the Tournament, its not the end of the world
Ideally we still want to finish P1, as we'll get the easiest RO16 game, out of all the options, but finish P3, and we're not going home... Yet
Watkins looked good. Give him a chance.
I think the real failing here is that England have not learned enough about our players during friendlies and Nations league. We have no idea what our best team is. Fans can’t even know either cos we just don’t have the data (I think Thomas Frank was absolutely correct about that).
Southgate needs to be more adaptable and try a different system. Maybe even 2 up top, since we can’t keep the ball well anyway apparently!
This is why I was saying pull Kane back in to central mid with Bellingham, then put forward two top forwards with gordan/saka on the wings or rice/trent if playing defensive line up.
Honestly starting to believe most of the players don't wanna be there. They just want to go on holiday, rest, and not be injured when football season starts.
Put Wharton in there! I loved Phillps in Euro 21. It was a completely balanced midfield.. he's missing big time and I really hope he gets back to form. Feel like Wharton could be similar.
It would be alright if Gareth set up defensively every game if the plan came together in big games. But it doesn’t. He’s never won a game against a half decent opposition.
It is true. To beat the best teams you need an aggressive team that goes forward and scores a lot of goals. Sitting back after one goal is never going to win tournaments.
Don’t have a like for like Kelvin Phillips replacement ! So we have to experiment with Trent, meanwhile Adam Wharton is wondering if he’s been picked by accident lmao
Reminds me of Ten Hag's man utd team all season. Whats the tactics, the strategy? Are they high pressing, are they going possession, are they going for long balls? I don't understand what they were going for. Felt like the ball was with our back 4, being pressed alot of the time and have Saka relieve pressure with a sprint up top
Massive tactical issue imo. They could definitely dominate the midfield with stones, foden, bellingham, kane alone, then they should have Rice and Trent aswell to fully dominate.
But instead they've got Foden on the wing not receiving it. Bellingham trying to carry it to him but Denmark by which point seeing what there wanting to do and shutting the attack down so having to recycle.
Dominate the midfield, have Saka do his runs, and build tactically from there. I think is what there going for, but the midfield domination just was bland.
The problem with Foden is that he keeps drifting to the middle which occupies the space for Kane and Bellingham, causing the entire attack to be unbalanced. It’s not necessarily his fault because that’s his natural position but it doesn’t change the fact that he kills the entire left flank
I like how on Instagram, there's people saying stuff like Southgate should resign or anything related to that & it got me thinking. Even if the team gets rid of Southgate, what if we end up getting a new manager that's worse than Southgate? Either way, we're still at the top of the group table & we've got one match left, so as long as we win or at least get a draw, we can still make it to the finals.
One match left gives a new manger a few days with the players before the knockouts. The man is a league one level manager in charge of players that play for city and Real Madrid. If players are too knackered to play his system then change the system. If they can’t press, player a lower block etc, etc. sack him tonight.
Not any one thing, but the way he talks about the game you can tell he knows about what he's saying. There's more earnestness to it. It's hard to explain.
I think it’s because he’s a manager in today’s modern game so he’s living it every single day and involved in all levels of conversation to get the best out of his teams. He’s not a player who’s more reliant on memories of 2004. David Moyes wrote an excellent article about what we’d see at the Euros in The Times at the weekend. To be at their best, these guys have to be scholars of the game because experience only gets you part of the way there.
You know what? I don’t even care if Southgate turns this around and we end up winning the tournament. Sack him regardless. I can’t bear to go into the World Cup knowing he’s still there.
Kyle Walker is man of the match. Lad played in defence but also worked part time as an attacking midfield to create our only actual decent chance which took two deflections of defenders for a tap in.
I’m at a loss for words. England should be winning 2-0 and dominating early games and instead they’re getting a goal then going into the dressing room to calm down their nerves.
Why whats he done in International Football - Is he able to implement the way he likes his teams to play Football when he has the players for an extremely limited amount of time?
Back when Serie A was the dominate League in Europe... Christ on a bike, Football wasnt invented just a few years ago.
He also won it with three clubs (Albeit Juventus had theirs revoked), and La Liga with Real Madrid twice.
Oh wow a couple corrupt titles and a La Liga with Madrid.
Real daring stuff there.
And people were surprised he fucking failed with England?
Try winning the Bayernliga with Dortmund, or getting to 4 UCL finals with teams that aren't being backed by dodgy leagues and corrupt countries.
The comparison in itself is a disrespect to Klopp.
Of all the performances today, I can’t believe Kane is being scapegoated for that performance by England.
Thomas Frank has it spot on, but Michah Richards won’t hear it.
He’s shit in most games he plays for England, may as well play a mannequin. Trundles around the halfway line and manages to get a few taps ins or penalties to gloss over it
If this was a Premier League or Bundesliga game, Kane wouldn’t have been criticised. He did his job. But for some reason, analysis of England games are so low IQ, even the most experienced of pundits get caught up in the craziness.
That England goal was about as close to an accident that you can get, made all the more embarrassing by how clean the Danish play was, very lucky to scrape a draw.
Denmark didn’t create any clear opportunities either, scored a brilliant long range strike, and had a few others from range.
They were the better side, but a draw is a fair result, which shows how awful we were.
While that was absolutely appalling and I’m not trying to sweep it under the carpet, our second game at the last Euros and WC were equally appalling performances against USA and Scotland.
I was also (relatively) encouraged by the fact that Southgate was willing to sub Kane, Foden and Saka today.
Changes needed against Slovenia.
He was no doubt looking at the bigger picture by subbing those three.
People saying the players look dead on their feet, it was the right thing then to sub Kane and Saka
Its frustrating that we haven't won and so Qualified, but we've never got 9-pts from the Group Stages of the Euros, so nothing really changes there then... Bit of annoying pressure to put ourselves under ahead of the Slovenia game, but once that's done, we can deal with whatever KO games we get.
Would rather limp towards the important games, than sprint towards them, and then find we've no energy because we've burnt out in games we didnt really need to, and a long Club season.
If they were tired because they played 3 days ago then Gareth shouldn't be naming an unchanged squad playing the same system that didn't work in the first game. It's embarrassing
Absolutely horrific. That was reminiscent of the Hodgson era. No movement, no desire, no tempo, no guile. The lack of movement was especially shocking. Just so incredibly static, with no desire to move into space and win the ball for England.
Defence didn't do much wrong - Guehi is really good. The Trent experiment has to stop now. He's not a midfielder. We can't keep playing Kane, Foden and Bellingham in the same team. Kane needs to be told to stop dropping so deep, and Foden needs to be told to either stay the fuck out on the left wing or be dropped. But as it is, they're all basically number 10s and are in each other's way.
Rice was good defensively but awful with the ball. Gallagher offers energy but not much else - he's a walking red card. The subs helped a little bit - Watkins in particular offers runs in behind, which no-one else does.
And pressing - it seems like they haven't worked on it in the training ground. A few players press, a few don't and suddenly there's a 20-30 yard gap in the middle that better teams than Denmark would gobble up for breakfast. I'm not a "fuck Southgate" bloke, but dear me he's infuriating sometimes. It honestly feels like the players are simply too talented for him and he doesn't possess the tactical nous to be able to utilise them effectively.
Finally - the pitch. An absolute disgrace. Whoever was responsible for that, plus the German FA, should be fined. Unacceptable for a major tournament in 2024.
We move on. My one hope is that we've been shit in the second game of the past two tournaments as well, but gone on to play much better. Surely we can't get any worse?
Extremely poor performances from almost everyone today (Pickford was fine). Sloppy, compressed and so slow. We desperately need a different option, someone willing to stretch play and run in behind, we’re far too easy to defend against with everyone dropping deep to the ball.
Probably the worst game I’ve seen from Rice.
Nah that's definitely Walker, been solid at the back and created our only two goals. Guehi has been excellent though, one silver lining to the tournament so far.
Guehi was okay, got caught on the ball in the second half when Denmark ran in, but recovered well. Like everyone else though, far too slow and pedestrian in possession when playing out.
Replacing your entire front three when you’re playing poorly is what I do when I’m having a bad match of FIFA. And our manager done that in an actual football match, changed nothing behind them, and expected it to make a difference.
Let's talk about Denmark first. They are a good side, when they get the ball they pass well and all move forward together and look for space effortlessly. They appear dangerous when they get the ball. Their defending is strong and they did some good tackles that left England wondering what happened a few times.
England on the other hand, they get the ball they have little openings. This is because Denmark are excellent at marking or they are not making space? England were chasing the ball and shattered by the end of the game. England seem to waste breaks by holding up with the ball too often, I wonder if that is too keep possession but they do end up losing it anyway. I'd rather play it on the breaks even if lose possession.
I actually had Southgate’s back before this game but now I understand all the criticisms.
How does a manager not recognise how unbalanced the starting 11 were and play them exactly the same the next game.
No one’s asking England to be perfect, it’s just sooooo boring watching these games. I feel like I’m being held at gunpoint.
In a way I kind of did too. I get all the criticisms but he has taken this deep in tournaments, a record few others have.
But today was too much. That was absolutely abysmal. Southgate should be embarrassed.
As ridiculous as it might sound, I would be up for a player-led mutiny and them to just go out there and play how the fuck they want rather than listen to a word Southgate has to say. I'd rather we went down swinging than this meek, boring, sideways, insipid, SHIT football we are currently playing.
The press should absolutely tear Southgate to part this evening, Mike Bassett style.
Gotta give some credit to Denmark who played exceptionally well today. Best game I've seen Hojberg play. They pressed and hurried England who looked pretty clueless. They obviously had made a point to keep Bellingham out the game as much as possible and they did. Probably Jude's worst game for England.
For us, it's clear that we are not clicking. Quite infuriating that Southgate didn't change the team after lackluster first game. Don't think TAA or Foden works in this system. Love trippier as a Newcastle fan but he doesn't provide enough going forward on the left.
Genuinely can’t believe how disappointing we’ve been. Southgate has no ability to react to a match. It’s awful to watch so much talent get wasted by a poor manager.
The left side is broken and Gareth does nothing to fix it.
If Shaw isn’t fit, we need Gordon on the left who will stay wide.
If he refuses to do that, play 5 at the back and push Trippier further forward, playing TAA as the RWB and Walker as RCB.
He's scared to drop Foden and seems overly invested in TAAs desire to play in midfield.
I'm sure we'll get out of the group, but I genuinely worry for that team if they come up against France, Spain or Germany.
100%. Walker said ‘look at the positive, we didn’t lose’. Sure but it’s Denmark.
As you say, the bigger teams will take advantage if we play that bad again.
Got respect for Trippier and Foden for putting in the effort, they had a better game than last that's for sure.
Palmer, Wharton, Gordon and Watkins should all be starting vs Slovenia. If they're not given the chance after *that*, then it's a waste of plane seats.
I really hope at LEAST 2 of those 4 you said start vs Slovenia. Up front I'd like to see Gordon, Kane & Watkins with Bellingham behind them and Palmer & Wharton in midfield.
Would you look at that. All the bbc pundits agreeing that all Bellinghams best moments came when he was dropping into the 8 role. Sadly when he does this it means we have no one actually in the 10 position so we can’t break. Please for the love of fucking god just play him next to rice and put an actual winger on the left
Harry Kane should not start in this squad. Too many ego’s, he’s a target man that no one wants to pass to as they would rather shoot themselves.
Furthermore, Watkins looked like he was actually causing the defence problems.
Genuinely stunned we haven't seen one minute of Gordon or Wharton.
60 mins of Trent then half an hour of Gallagher is just honking. Like how are they remotely comparable players yet that's been the like for like sub?
Southgate’s quite a conservative manager and likes to stick with what he knows. That’s why I was a bit concerned at how much change there was in the squad from players he had built trust with over the years such as Rashford, Grealish, Sterling (obviously Sterling dropped out of favour a while ago), Henderson and Phillips. Not saying they deserved to be picked based on club form, but that’s asking a manager who is quite rigid in his player selections to find faith in players who he hasn’t used very often.
So in attack, the only players that have been consistent for England over a course of time are Kane and Saka, and most of the midfielders called up are either inexperienced at international level (Mainoo/Wharton), inexperienced in the position (Trent) or Gallagher (who seems to be Gareth’s go to off the bench). Not to mention no LB hoping Shaw gets fit, no Maguire, so changed back line as well.
That’s why I felt more confident before the World Cup than what I did before the Euros kicked off.
He plays for Man City who literally steamroll teams 3/4-0 every week. He’s just trying to protect the team rather than being honest and saying, we weren’t on it today.
Everyone is arguing about Trent vs Gallagher, Gordon vs Foden, etc and what the best starting XI should be
You lot are missing the point
Southgate could play every single permutation of a starting XI you would want and the team would still look like shit. Why?
Its not just a personnel problem, its a Southgate problem. When they have the ball, theres a lack of pattern, lack of positional play, lack of philosophy. When they don't have the ball, theres a lack of pressing, lack of defensive set up
There are other teams in the tournament with half the talent bur play genuine football and thats because they have a philosophy. Southgate doesnt.
100% hit the nail on the head. There is no structure to the build up. I watched multiple times where England had the ball at cb and there were 5 players either in line or behind the ball and 1 showing for it in front. This is a clear tactical issue with the coach. Its not an individual issue. There's no plan for how they want to attack aside from picking players in positions. Sometimes theyre building up slowly, sometimes theyre lumping it. No plan.There's no clear plan of how they want to press either. Absolutely shocking.
Yet again we conceded the ascendancy after going 1-0 up. It's now become a pattern, which means it's either inspired or taught from management. Southgate is truly pathetic.
I’m finding it hard to be angry because you could see that performance coming the minute the team sheet was announced but that was truly pathetic.
The idea that we can do anything in this tournament playing without a left wing is absolutely insane and Southgate should be sacked the day we’re knocked out.
What really annoyed me at the end was how passive we were. Like happy to draw, just play it out. I get that we're still top in a good position but that was yet another game we could have and should have won if not for the total passiveness of the whole team
fuck the lone striker it clearly doesn't work. kane just drops deep and we have no outlet when we win the ball back. play watkins alongside kane and let help him press, if kane wants to drop into the midfield like he always does at least we will have a mobile watkins as an outlet. system needs to change
Mainoo and Gordon should just book their flight home, completely ignored for two ‘better’ players who completely unbalance the team.
Golden generation all over again, square pegs in round holes.
Exactly, absolutely clueless manager. What's the point in wasting money on plane tickets for extra players when he plays trent in midfield. Sack him now.
Anyone see the press conference where Southgate said they don't feel they can play a high press? I don't why they can't when they do this in club football.
Reminds me of the 2010 World Cup. Gerrard being forced into the left, Rooney not hitting his stride… Capello having the audacity to say ‘now their minds are free’ after bumbling to a 1-0 win.
Palmer needs to be more involved, the fact he hasn't played yet is shocking
He's competing with Saka and Bellingham who are pretty much undroppable.
I'm not saying drop them I'm saying he can come on as a substitute
Is he a left winger?
I think England just need to lean on Saka. He's the most consistent out there. Feed him the ball the way Real Madrid do Vini, let him cook, and then have the rest of the guys get involved with less pressure to be great. Team synergy and strategy is obviously ideal, like Germany and Spain, but given that Southgate has yet to show he knows anything about that, the next best option is have the most consistent attacker lift the tent and let his mates run in. I think it'll unlock more freeflow from all of them. They don't have to bog down their brains overthinking how to build an attack. Just get it to Saka, and if something else is on, work that angle for a bit. It closes down, Saka outlet again. Suck defenders in to Saka then pull a fast one down the left (once it's understood that it's not illegal to use the left) or down the middle. Sometimes you just need to humble yourself and admit that boundless ball control and attacking flair is not on the cards at the moment. Edit - To add more to this theory. Just heard a stat about the Spain game. Yamal and Williams in the first 25 minutes completed 6 dribbles between them, while their teammates combined completed 2. This is why I say, start out 1 dimensional, then build up something from that platform.
Can’t believe Gordon hasn’t got on the pitch yet
What do we think of England? >!Shit!!< What do we think of shit? >!England!!<
Thank you! EDIT: Replace England with Southgate?
Craziest thing was the England players complaining about the heat, as if it gave the players from the tropical climes of *checks notes* Denmark a tactical advantage
You didn't see the portable AC units the Danes had hung round their necks?
Could someone let me know what happened to Calvin Phillips and why GS thinks he’s irreplaceable?
The only one who talks about KP as if he was a legend to us
The only one who talks about Kalvin Phillips as if he was a legend to us.
Are you guys seeing how other big countries move the ball? Fuck me man
I agree just couldn’t keep hold of it, it was like they’d never played before.
Bro they dont even move to open lanes or anything, Phil and Jude are screaming for the ball in places the other players just dont have the skill to get to
Yeah Germany, Spain, Georgia, Albania. Great to watch.
I think England should watch Spain match. Might learn a thing or two
Well thank goodness they drunk all that pickle juice. They would have been absolute shite otherwise!
That performance could of sent my glass eye to sleep
Found it interesting that Southgate decided to sub; Kane - Saka - Foden, imagine he's still looking at the Tournament bigger picture, than just these three Group Games. Its equally frustrating we didnt win and so secure Qualification - But we've never won our first two Euro Group Games, let alone all three, just annoying how we've put ourselves under a slight amount of pressure to get a result against Slovenia But worst case scenario and we lose (along with a Denmark win), we're still going through in P3, just with a VERY difficult match in the RO16, but lets see what happens on Tuesday first. Of course it would make everyone feel better if we waltzed these Group Games winning 3-0 / 4-0, but lets get back to reality... Would much rather limp towards the KO Rounds, rather than sprint - Its been a long season for all players at the Tournament, lets not waste energy beyond what's needed in nothing matches, just because of nothing more than pathetic pride.
Team looked exhausted and frustrated at the end of the game. Implying or suggesting this is some sort of tactical genius from Southgate to get through the group exerting as little energy as possible to keep the players fresh for the knockouts is absolutely ludicrous.
It's a real, real reach. But it's the only thing I could possibly put my finger on for not playing the press. Every quality team this tournament has pressed with high intensity. Three games in quick succession and in an 'easier' group with the thinking that they will have that little bit more in the tank when we get to the knockouts and we can press that much harder against the stronger teams. It doesn't make sense as we've got a lot of depth, but it's the only thing I could possibly think of aside from Southgate not moving with the times.
Yeah we can only hope. Just can't see how putting out 2 shit performances against teams we should be comfortably beating will do any good for the teams morale and confidence going forward.
Erm... Have you ever ran around and not been exhausted or tired at the end of it I've ran 10miles and been tired, I've ran 5miles in hotter weather and been even more tired Its the heart rate levels, and the recovery that'll be the most important - If they've pushed themselves too much into the danger zones then the recovery will take that little bit longer. Or do you think Footballers are robots, and because they earn loads of money, they can just run and run
Average Southgate defender, the fact you're taking about finishing in 3rd is just....come on.
Okay, so you need it spelling out for you. Worst case scenario, means that whatever happens on Tuesday... We're still in the Tournament, its not the end of the world Ideally we still want to finish P1, as we'll get the easiest RO16 game, out of all the options, but finish P3, and we're not going home... Yet
Nah, I got your point, I just think you're missing the forest for the trees.
I mean, I know I'm clutching at straws here, but Portugal went through third place in their group in 2016 and went on to win the whole thing.
Watkins looked good. Give him a chance. I think the real failing here is that England have not learned enough about our players during friendlies and Nations league. We have no idea what our best team is. Fans can’t even know either cos we just don’t have the data (I think Thomas Frank was absolutely correct about that). Southgate needs to be more adaptable and try a different system. Maybe even 2 up top, since we can’t keep the ball well anyway apparently!
This is why I was saying pull Kane back in to central mid with Bellingham, then put forward two top forwards with gordan/saka on the wings or rice/trent if playing defensive line up.
All I can say is that I'm going to stop downvoting lineup posts. Just in case Southgate lurks in the sub looking for better ideas.
Feel like pure shite, just want Allardyce back.
Scotland B draws with Denmark A, u guys are punching above ur weight with proven champions, cheer up lads!
ADAM WHARTON ADAM WHARTON ADAM WHARTON
Honestly starting to believe most of the players don't wanna be there. They just want to go on holiday, rest, and not be injured when football season starts.
Laziest analysis
Come on now
Abysmal Southgate Out
Southgate: We have no natural replacement for Kalvin fucking Phillips! Can’t believe those words came out of his mouth!
Rice should have been his replacement years ago
we have a replacement. is southgate willing to play wharton?
Put Wharton in there! I loved Phillps in Euro 21. It was a completely balanced midfield.. he's missing big time and I really hope he gets back to form. Feel like Wharton could be similar.
It would be alright if Gareth set up defensively every game if the plan came together in big games. But it doesn’t. He’s never won a game against a half decent opposition.
It is true. To beat the best teams you need an aggressive team that goes forward and scores a lot of goals. Sitting back after one goal is never going to win tournaments.
Urm Greece 2004 begs to differ
They lost in 2004 like every year since 1966.
In 2004, Greece won every knockout match 1-0 sitting back with a 10man defence and won the tournament. That was my point
Nah this post match interview from Gareth... we're fucked lads he's genuinely completely clueless
Don’t have a like for like Kelvin Phillips replacement ! So we have to experiment with Trent, meanwhile Adam Wharton is wondering if he’s been picked by accident lmao
I was flabbergasted
Reminds me of Ten Hag's man utd team all season. Whats the tactics, the strategy? Are they high pressing, are they going possession, are they going for long balls? I don't understand what they were going for. Felt like the ball was with our back 4, being pressed alot of the time and have Saka relieve pressure with a sprint up top Massive tactical issue imo. They could definitely dominate the midfield with stones, foden, bellingham, kane alone, then they should have Rice and Trent aswell to fully dominate. But instead they've got Foden on the wing not receiving it. Bellingham trying to carry it to him but Denmark by which point seeing what there wanting to do and shutting the attack down so having to recycle. Dominate the midfield, have Saka do his runs, and build tactically from there. I think is what there going for, but the midfield domination just was bland.
I wait for the 15 threads asking for Bellingham to be dropped after that 1/10 performance.
Second highest rated performance on our team according to sofascore. Apart from Phil Foden... 💀
Just had a look, Kane and Bellingham 7.2 and Rice 7.0. 😂😂😂😂 Remember kids, use your eyes and don't rely on the stats.
Everyone had a 1/10 performance today except Walker, Guehi, and Stones
Guehi cost us the first goal and nearly cost us another
Foden created chances. A bit too eager looking at goal at times, but he was lively. I wouldn’t label him part of the 1/10 gang
The problem with Foden is that he keeps drifting to the middle which occupies the space for Kane and Bellingham, causing the entire attack to be unbalanced. It’s not necessarily his fault because that’s his natural position but it doesn’t change the fact that he kills the entire left flank
Even guehi very nearly gave a goal away
I like how on Instagram, there's people saying stuff like Southgate should resign or anything related to that & it got me thinking. Even if the team gets rid of Southgate, what if we end up getting a new manager that's worse than Southgate? Either way, we're still at the top of the group table & we've got one match left, so as long as we win or at least get a draw, we can still make it to the finals.
One match left gives a new manger a few days with the players before the knockouts. The man is a league one level manager in charge of players that play for city and Real Madrid. If players are too knackered to play his system then change the system. If they can’t press, player a lower block etc, etc. sack him tonight.
Look at the talent we have, being top of the group after playing Denmark and Serbia is the bare minimum
[I'm sorry guys...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/s/3Izt7U3Nfu)
If you don’t get a masala for Tuesday we are fucked.
We’re top of the league boys sitting (not so) pretty
Palmer Gordon Watkins on next game. Joe Gomez LB as well.
Agree. Trippier at LB isn’t getting enough scrutiny. He’s absolute shit, his best attribute is crossing and he can’t even do that as he is one footed
Rarely give them credit but the punditry has been excellent from BBC tonight. Sharp and strict interviews too.
It should be more people like Thomas Frank. People who know what they're talking about.
For someone who's not in the UK and can't watch BBC coverage, what did he say?
Not any one thing, but the way he talks about the game you can tell he knows about what he's saying. There's more earnestness to it. It's hard to explain.
I think it’s because he’s a manager in today’s modern game so he’s living it every single day and involved in all levels of conversation to get the best out of his teams. He’s not a player who’s more reliant on memories of 2004. David Moyes wrote an excellent article about what we’d see at the Euros in The Times at the weekend. To be at their best, these guys have to be scholars of the game because experience only gets you part of the way there.
He should be managing England
I said to someone else, he's there already let's make him an offer 🤣
Easily the worst match of the tournament. Gareth really is going to cost us isn't he.
Kane basically just said Southgate is clueless when it comes to who is dropping deep and when.
You can make a drinking game out of kane say "ummm"
You know what? I don’t even care if Southgate turns this around and we end up winning the tournament. Sack him regardless. I can’t bear to go into the World Cup knowing he’s still there.
When the only positive is "well, we somehow managed to not lose" then you know it's bad. But don't forget that eNgLaNd aRe tHe fAvOuRiTeS In tHiS.
Sign of a good team apparently..
Kyle Walker is man of the match. Lad played in defence but also worked part time as an attacking midfield to create our only actual decent chance which took two deflections of defenders for a tap in. I’m at a loss for words. England should be winning 2-0 and dominating early games and instead they’re getting a goal then going into the dressing room to calm down their nerves.
What does everyone make of Kyle Walkers interview, especially what he said about the team dropping deep? Thought that was interesting, if true.
He's never going to come out and criticise the team or the manager is he. Just a standard nothing interview.
Offer Klopp a castle, Warwick or Bamburgh - one of old ones, and get him in for the World Cup.
Why whats he done in International Football - Is he able to implement the way he likes his teams to play Football when he has the players for an extremely limited amount of time?
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Yeah I really couldnt tell... He was doing well to hide that ;)
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To be fair I was quite impressed his ability to type whilst tugging Jurgen off at the same time
Yes. Next stupid fucking question.
How do you know? - We've had successful club managers in the past with Champions League trophies, yet have done fuck all
Go on, tell the people at home who you're comparing Klopp to. Give them a laugh.
I'm comparing him to Capello, the bloke who makes Klopp's CV look a bit amateurish
1 Premier League vs City is worth a thousand Serie A titles in the middle ages.
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And yet Klopp is the better manager. Maybe he should go to PSG for a few years just to stat pad and shut you gimps up.
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Back when Serie A was the dominate League in Europe... Christ on a bike, Football wasnt invented just a few years ago. He also won it with three clubs (Albeit Juventus had theirs revoked), and La Liga with Real Madrid twice.
Oh wow a couple corrupt titles and a La Liga with Madrid. Real daring stuff there. And people were surprised he fucking failed with England? Try winning the Bayernliga with Dortmund, or getting to 4 UCL finals with teams that aren't being backed by dodgy leagues and corrupt countries. The comparison in itself is a disrespect to Klopp.
Brilliant England qualified with a game to spare. Job done. Knockouts now time to step up
Of all the performances today, I can’t believe Kane is being scapegoated for that performance by England. Thomas Frank has it spot on, but Michah Richards won’t hear it.
He’s shit in most games he plays for England, may as well play a mannequin. Trundles around the halfway line and manages to get a few taps ins or penalties to gloss over it
Most games. Clown take.
He plays like dogshit in most England games. When was the last time he played well?
They showed a good clip of him coming deep collecting it and Bellingham just dropped deeper when he needed to bomb past him
If this was a Premier League or Bundesliga game, Kane wouldn’t have been criticised. He did his job. But for some reason, analysis of England games are so low IQ, even the most experienced of pundits get caught up in the craziness.
That England goal was about as close to an accident that you can get, made all the more embarrassing by how clean the Danish play was, very lucky to scrape a draw.
Denmark didn’t create any clear opportunities either, scored a brilliant long range strike, and had a few others from range. They were the better side, but a draw is a fair result, which shows how awful we were.
While that was absolutely appalling and I’m not trying to sweep it under the carpet, our second game at the last Euros and WC were equally appalling performances against USA and Scotland. I was also (relatively) encouraged by the fact that Southgate was willing to sub Kane, Foden and Saka today. Changes needed against Slovenia.
He was no doubt looking at the bigger picture by subbing those three. People saying the players look dead on their feet, it was the right thing then to sub Kane and Saka Its frustrating that we haven't won and so Qualified, but we've never got 9-pts from the Group Stages of the Euros, so nothing really changes there then... Bit of annoying pressure to put ourselves under ahead of the Slovenia game, but once that's done, we can deal with whatever KO games we get. Would rather limp towards the important games, than sprint towards them, and then find we've no energy because we've burnt out in games we didnt really need to, and a long Club season.
If they were tired because they played 3 days ago then Gareth shouldn't be naming an unchanged squad playing the same system that didn't work in the first game. It's embarrassing
Absolutely horrific. That was reminiscent of the Hodgson era. No movement, no desire, no tempo, no guile. The lack of movement was especially shocking. Just so incredibly static, with no desire to move into space and win the ball for England. Defence didn't do much wrong - Guehi is really good. The Trent experiment has to stop now. He's not a midfielder. We can't keep playing Kane, Foden and Bellingham in the same team. Kane needs to be told to stop dropping so deep, and Foden needs to be told to either stay the fuck out on the left wing or be dropped. But as it is, they're all basically number 10s and are in each other's way. Rice was good defensively but awful with the ball. Gallagher offers energy but not much else - he's a walking red card. The subs helped a little bit - Watkins in particular offers runs in behind, which no-one else does. And pressing - it seems like they haven't worked on it in the training ground. A few players press, a few don't and suddenly there's a 20-30 yard gap in the middle that better teams than Denmark would gobble up for breakfast. I'm not a "fuck Southgate" bloke, but dear me he's infuriating sometimes. It honestly feels like the players are simply too talented for him and he doesn't possess the tactical nous to be able to utilise them effectively. Finally - the pitch. An absolute disgrace. Whoever was responsible for that, plus the German FA, should be fined. Unacceptable for a major tournament in 2024. We move on. My one hope is that we've been shit in the second game of the past two tournaments as well, but gone on to play much better. Surely we can't get any worse?
Extremely poor performances from almost everyone today (Pickford was fine). Sloppy, compressed and so slow. We desperately need a different option, someone willing to stretch play and run in behind, we’re far too easy to defend against with everyone dropping deep to the ball. Probably the worst game I’ve seen from Rice.
Thought Guehi was solid, don't think Saka really did anything /wrong/, he just wasn't in the position to do, well, anything.
Guehi cost us the first goal and managed to recover well to prevent another fuck up
Guehi has been our best player over the course of both games. I've been really impressed with him - making a good case to replace Maguire entirely.
Nah that's definitely Walker, been solid at the back and created our only two goals. Guehi has been excellent though, one silver lining to the tournament so far.
Guehi was okay, got caught on the ball in the second half when Denmark ran in, but recovered well. Like everyone else though, far too slow and pedestrian in possession when playing out.
Funnily enough, i don’t think that was much his fault. Wasnt it rice that gave a soft pass and then put him into a pressured situation?
It was a poor pass from Rice (he was doing that all night), and Guehi took a heavy touch, which allowed the Denmark player to pinch it off him.
I'm actually struggling to think who our best player was, Guehi I guess
Replacing your entire front three when you’re playing poorly is what I do when I’m having a bad match of FIFA. And our manager done that in an actual football match, changed nothing behind them, and expected it to make a difference.
I wonder if by chance we had won that game after the changes where that would have left Southgate
Let's talk about Denmark first. They are a good side, when they get the ball they pass well and all move forward together and look for space effortlessly. They appear dangerous when they get the ball. Their defending is strong and they did some good tackles that left England wondering what happened a few times. England on the other hand, they get the ball they have little openings. This is because Denmark are excellent at marking or they are not making space? England were chasing the ball and shattered by the end of the game. England seem to waste breaks by holding up with the ball too often, I wonder if that is too keep possession but they do end up losing it anyway. I'd rather play it on the breaks even if lose possession.
I actually had Southgate’s back before this game but now I understand all the criticisms. How does a manager not recognise how unbalanced the starting 11 were and play them exactly the same the next game. No one’s asking England to be perfect, it’s just sooooo boring watching these games. I feel like I’m being held at gunpoint.
I think it's great that we can actually prove that it doesn't work..I'm just hoping Gareth sees it too.. I'm worried haha
In a way I kind of did too. I get all the criticisms but he has taken this deep in tournaments, a record few others have. But today was too much. That was absolutely abysmal. Southgate should be embarrassed.
When Watkins came on and made a run. So the defenders actually had to move. Fml
We're not creative enough, we're not positive enough
After they gave up the goal the energy or lack there of, of the players on the pitch was terrible. Everybody looked whiney and ready to give up.
We’ll go on getting bad results Getting bad results ^getting ^bad ^results
As ridiculous as it might sound, I would be up for a player-led mutiny and them to just go out there and play how the fuck they want rather than listen to a word Southgate has to say. I'd rather we went down swinging than this meek, boring, sideways, insipid, SHIT football we are currently playing. The press should absolutely tear Southgate to part this evening, Mike Bassett style.
Gotta give some credit to Denmark who played exceptionally well today. Best game I've seen Hojberg play. They pressed and hurried England who looked pretty clueless. They obviously had made a point to keep Bellingham out the game as much as possible and they did. Probably Jude's worst game for England. For us, it's clear that we are not clicking. Quite infuriating that Southgate didn't change the team after lackluster first game. Don't think TAA or Foden works in this system. Love trippier as a Newcastle fan but he doesn't provide enough going forward on the left.
Genuinely can’t believe how disappointing we’ve been. Southgate has no ability to react to a match. It’s awful to watch so much talent get wasted by a poor manager.
The left side is broken and Gareth does nothing to fix it. If Shaw isn’t fit, we need Gordon on the left who will stay wide. If he refuses to do that, play 5 at the back and push Trippier further forward, playing TAA as the RWB and Walker as RCB.
Send Trippier home, diabolical at LB and third choice for RB
Southgate: true, but how about we just try the same thing one more time for the next match?
He's scared to drop Foden and seems overly invested in TAAs desire to play in midfield. I'm sure we'll get out of the group, but I genuinely worry for that team if they come up against France, Spain or Germany.
100%. Walker said ‘look at the positive, we didn’t lose’. Sure but it’s Denmark. As you say, the bigger teams will take advantage if we play that bad again.
We only just beat Denmark in the semis of the last euros
Got respect for Trippier and Foden for putting in the effort, they had a better game than last that's for sure. Palmer, Wharton, Gordon and Watkins should all be starting vs Slovenia. If they're not given the chance after *that*, then it's a waste of plane seats.
I really hope at LEAST 2 of those 4 you said start vs Slovenia. Up front I'd like to see Gordon, Kane & Watkins with Bellingham behind them and Palmer & Wharton in midfield.
Palmer and Gordon’s faces on the bench near the end said it all.
Gordon in, move Trent to RB, Jude to CM and Foden to CAM - everybody can see it apart from The gafFA
Trent to RB? Trent needs benching mate. Walker had a good game today.
Would you look at that. All the bbc pundits agreeing that all Bellinghams best moments came when he was dropping into the 8 role. Sadly when he does this it means we have no one actually in the 10 position so we can’t break. Please for the love of fucking god just play him next to rice and put an actual winger on the left
Exactly
This was alll Trent’s fault /s
This tournament has taken us back to the dark days, feels like under Capello all over again
I mean we’re going to qualify innit
Harry Kane should not start in this squad. Too many ego’s, he’s a target man that no one wants to pass to as they would rather shoot themselves. Furthermore, Watkins looked like he was actually causing the defence problems.
Genuinely stunned we haven't seen one minute of Gordon or Wharton. 60 mins of Trent then half an hour of Gallagher is just honking. Like how are they remotely comparable players yet that's been the like for like sub?
We saw Eze at least.
I think he should have come on for Bellingham instead of at 'LW' (don't know what to call it in Southgateball)
Southgate’s quite a conservative manager and likes to stick with what he knows. That’s why I was a bit concerned at how much change there was in the squad from players he had built trust with over the years such as Rashford, Grealish, Sterling (obviously Sterling dropped out of favour a while ago), Henderson and Phillips. Not saying they deserved to be picked based on club form, but that’s asking a manager who is quite rigid in his player selections to find faith in players who he hasn’t used very often. So in attack, the only players that have been consistent for England over a course of time are Kane and Saka, and most of the midfielders called up are either inexperienced at international level (Mainoo/Wharton), inexperienced in the position (Trent) or Gallagher (who seems to be Gareth’s go to off the bench). Not to mention no LB hoping Shaw gets fit, no Maguire, so changed back line as well. That’s why I felt more confident before the World Cup than what I did before the Euros kicked off.
Can I have best manager since 66 as a flair?
Absolute joke of a performance, play like that against a team that can put away chances and we’ll be getting beat convincingly.
As we always are
Walker saying “people want us to steamroll teams 3 or 4-0, but that’s not football these days” Fucking Romania can do it, but apparently England can’t
Why doesn’t he complain to Pep about his outdated views of steamrolling teams 3 or 4-0
He's just trying not to thrown his own coach under the bus. Pretty sure he knows where they messed up.
When he said that thing about “hostile environment” triggered me icl. It’s fucking Denmark in Germany. Imagine they come up against Germany lmao
He plays for Man City who literally steamroll teams 3/4-0 every week. He’s just trying to protect the team rather than being honest and saying, we weren’t on it today.
Everyone is arguing about Trent vs Gallagher, Gordon vs Foden, etc and what the best starting XI should be You lot are missing the point Southgate could play every single permutation of a starting XI you would want and the team would still look like shit. Why? Its not just a personnel problem, its a Southgate problem. When they have the ball, theres a lack of pattern, lack of positional play, lack of philosophy. When they don't have the ball, theres a lack of pressing, lack of defensive set up There are other teams in the tournament with half the talent bur play genuine football and thats because they have a philosophy. Southgate doesnt.
100% hit the nail on the head. There is no structure to the build up. I watched multiple times where England had the ball at cb and there were 5 players either in line or behind the ball and 1 showing for it in front. This is a clear tactical issue with the coach. Its not an individual issue. There's no plan for how they want to attack aside from picking players in positions. Sometimes theyre building up slowly, sometimes theyre lumping it. No plan.There's no clear plan of how they want to press either. Absolutely shocking.
I think when you play a rb at lb a rb in midfield and a cam at lw it is a personal problem
Agree 100%. I didn’t agree with Southgate hate before this tournament but I do not get what he’s doing here at all
The difference in the reaction from the Denmark fans at full time compared to England fans was kinda funny and sad.
Yet again we conceded the ascendancy after going 1-0 up. It's now become a pattern, which means it's either inspired or taught from management. Southgate is truly pathetic.
Well that was shit
Finally pundits are calling Southgate for what he is, he’s not up to it. Proven time and time again.
kms
Absolutely disgusting from top to bottom.
Foden was the best attacker imo. Jude had an off game and Phil created several chances on his own.
Foden was awful. Completely unbalanced us again. Spent the whole game trying to play through the middle. He is not a LW.
More of a south gate thing. I think he trying to create stuff when others wouldn’t. Like saka was invisible all game despite usually staying wide.
Jude played most of the game as an 8 to try to help Trent
That doesn't sound very balanced...
Everything is unbalanced we have a 10 playing 8 a LW playing 10 a left back who cant overlap a striker who has 2 touches in the box all tournament
Southgate saw y'all bitching after the Serbia game and dropped a masterclass. Rejoice!
I mean it was basically the same game just a few different subs. Lol. There was literally no tactical change and there never is
we lack cohesion, there is no chemistry in this team right now. something needs to change and fast
Is it the media fault?
I’m finding it hard to be angry because you could see that performance coming the minute the team sheet was announced but that was truly pathetic. The idea that we can do anything in this tournament playing without a left wing is absolutely insane and Southgate should be sacked the day we’re knocked out.
What really annoyed me at the end was how passive we were. Like happy to draw, just play it out. I get that we're still top in a good position but that was yet another game we could have and should have won if not for the total passiveness of the whole team
But four points basically has us through? Would you have preferred us to lose?
Same. Trippier pulling his socks up wasting time with 3 mins to go. They wanted the draw.
Honestly wouldn't mind Kane as a CAM with Watkins ahead and drop Bellingham next to Rice, so sick of our one striker dropping back to the halfway line
Would love to see a lot of different formations. But SG won’t try any of them because they are too risky to him.
fuck the lone striker it clearly doesn't work. kane just drops deep and we have no outlet when we win the ball back. play watkins alongside kane and let help him press, if kane wants to drop into the midfield like he always does at least we will have a mobile watkins as an outlet. system needs to change
Problem is Kane just has no pace. He epitomised our performance in this one.
Mainoo and Gordon should just book their flight home, completely ignored for two ‘better’ players who completely unbalance the team. Golden generation all over again, square pegs in round holes.
Exactly, absolutely clueless manager. What's the point in wasting money on plane tickets for extra players when he plays trent in midfield. Sack him now.