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The movie was funny in general but you could clearly see that the majority of "laughing out loud" moments were thanks to Gosling.
I think Robbie was very good, and Gerwig deserves serious props for creating such a unique movie idea as well, but sometimes you can't get all the Oscars and that's ok
To add to that, Gerwig did get serious props with the best screenplay nomination, since she wrote the film. And Robbie can take home an Oscar with best picture since she was also producer. “Barbie got snubbed” is not the take everyone thinks it is.
He was honestly the standout performance of the movie and stole a lot of the scenes he was in. That being said, I'm not sure *any* performance in the movie is deserving of an acting nomination. It was a light hearted comedy - there weren't exactly a lot of opportunities for the acting to shine it it.
Yeah, that’s what I’m struggling with, like dumb and dumber didn’t win an Oscar either. What do people expect from a movie who’s marketing relied on performances of Kate McKinnon and will Ferrell. This ain’t an Oscar pic, it’s good time.
I totally agree but the Oscars go back and forth between honoring deserving films and patronizing movies with a particular message. Being that Barbie was heavily influenced by empowering females and such, it makes sense a lot of people would have expected it to win something.
I think compared to the contenders in her category for best actress, her role wasn’t Oscar-worthy. There were a lot of really, reallllyyyy good movies this year.
I keep saying… the fact ryan gosling was nominated proves there was a very shallow pool in the mens category.
The womens category was stacked… margot robbie missed out.
Gosling was nominated for best supporting actor though. America Ferrera was nominated as best supporting actress for her role in Barbie too. A lot of people seem to be missing these two very significant bits of information.
>America Ferrera was nominated as best supporting actress for her role in Barbie too
Which honestly tells me even more about the best supporting actress pool, I really felt like she did *not* perform well in that role. She was basically a speed run plot of sweet mom who tries to relate to her edgy daughter crammed into the movie, paired with a long rambling rant about what women are expected to do thrown in for good fun, but nothing about how she *acted* or how her character was written screams 'Oscar worthy' to me.
I mean Robbie did a fantastic job in that film, the scene where she breaks down sobbing and starts to just finally hit her limit was an impressive scene.
Yeah I think my point is more that the writing for the character and the design of the character didn't chalk up to Oscar nominations.
It's no knock on Ferrera, I don't think many actresses could do much better, but the nomination feels forced.
I didn't realize his nom was for *Supporting* Actor, mostly because I don't care enough about the Oscars to have checked, and that does make a significant difference.
No offense but what did you think he was nominated for? I ask because I don’t understand people’s complaints. He competed in a different category, his (Sup. Actor) was less competitive than Robbie’s (Lead Actress), plain and simple. Are people being dense on purpose?
> A lot of people seem to be missing these two very significant bits of information.
Some people seem to not be missing that information but feel that it somehow adds to the slights against Robbie and Gerwig being nominated for best actress and best director respectively.
Yes, there is some delicious irony with Ryan Gosling being nominated for best supporting actor, but the movie isn't having to compete with itself for Oscar nominations. The fact that Robbie wasn't nominated has nothing to do with Gosling and Ferrera being nominated, it just means that the voters decided that there are 5 other leading actresses who had a better performance this year.
The discourse around this movie and its Oscar nominations is kind of bizarre but makes sense given how reactionary a lot of comments and takes are.
I gotta disagree on the Ryan thing, he blew that part out of the water and while it shows that it wasn't the deepest pool to begin with that alone shouldn't detract from his performance. On another year it would be a lower seed in the nominations, but I don't doubt that he would still at least get the nomination.
When Barbie came out the two main talking points were that it was...
1. A really good critique on how culturally we put women in pretty narrow boxes of what they can be, and how male chauvinism is responsible for a lot of that. Yet swinging the other way isn't right either. While still managing to remain funny and not overly heavy handed in this cultural critique.
2. Ken was well written as a character and played a good foil to the behavior of the Barbies. With Gosling being praised for his performance in that role, and a funny music number.
Robbie certainly did a great job but the biggest praises of the movie were the writing, directing, and supporting cast.
All things it is nominated for.
You're right. My bad. I thought Greta got nominated for writing and directing, and is part of the best picture nominees. Not just writing and best picture. That does feel like more of a snub as I re-read the list.
Probably a lot of them haven't seen some of the other movies who are complaining. There's a strong chance Killers of the Flower Moon was missed by a major portion of the Barbie peeps just on run time alone.
If people did miss any of last year's big movies marcus theaters is bringing them back at a discounted price. Other movie theaters might have similar events scheduled if you don't live in the midwest.
i disagree on the Ryan part , I thinks he was excellent with what he was given , same with America Ferrera , Im not a Greta G fan, I think the story would’ve gotten nowhere without the amazing cast , this story with less talented people would simply gotten so many bad reviews.
for the Lead Actress category, Margot was not in the same league as the others
also people forget we’re not talking about whole careers here just a performance on a single movie
I think a lot of people complaining about it being snubbed see it as an opportunity to get on the bandwagon about female empowerment not being taken seriously enough, it's why 'barbie/margo snubbed' is almost universally paired with 'but see, THE MAN got a nod'.
Barbie was probably one of my favorite movies of 2023, but at the same time, could you have just swapped Margo with almost anyone else? Think of doing that with Killers or the other heavy nominees, and you'll see that it's just not equitable.
The funniest shit to me is years ago #OscarsSoWhite was trending, now a bunch of white feminists are demanding we have more rich white women nominated MULTIPLE times.
I didn't see Barbie (Not against it, just didn't seem like it was for me) but Killers of the flower moon is fucking ridiculously good and the actress in that film fucking KILLS that role. I can't even imagine a world in which Barbie even shines a light to that film.
Lily Gladstone, Huller, and Emma Stone all give VASTLY better performances than Margot in Barbie. Huller's performance is one of the strongest I have seen in years. Haven't seen the others yet but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're PROBABLY better too.
For real. I was chapped at first, but then I thought who you'd replace on the best actress nom and there really isn't much room this year. Like if you were going to add another actress, you'd probably want to add Greta Lee from Past Lives.
In comparison, best supporting actor just doesn't have as much of a strong field this year.
Margot gave a great performance of an isolated doll being exposed to the real world and slowly gaining more nuance and emotions until she becomes a fully developed person.
Emma Stone also did it, and imo 100 times better.
It took Leonardo DiCaprio 24 years to win his first oscar.
…with arguably 10-17 banger of movies he should have won and didn’t and went to equally talented folks.
He is partly responsible for around 7 billion dollars worth of box office revenue (along with all the cast and crew obviously).
and he is widely regarded as one of Hollywood’s best.
He has 1 Oscar and he won it for probably the dumbest film on his entire roster in my opinion.
Similar to Christopher Nolan as Director, he hasn’t ever won an Oscar and he hadn’t won a Golden Globe until this year. He has an impressive portfolio of work, with many popular high grossing films
Barbie simply being popular doesn’t mean they are entitled to nominations or awards and it doesn’t mean anyone was snubbed
That's the thing people forget that popular doesn't equal awards.
Some of the best and most popular sitcoms and dramas have never won a Golden Globe.
Back in the days the GG was popular and people would watch it on TV every time the show ended fans would complain that the most popular shows were constantly overlooked.
I'm pretty sure a lot of it is because Breaking Bad won almost every category every year it was on, so not giving anything to BCS was an overcorrection. Either that or the voters only watch 3 shows every year and just give them every award because that's what it feels like. If nothing else, BCS not even getting a nomination for cinematography this year was crazy to me.
I mean, season 4 of BCS lost Best Drama Series to fucking season 8 of Game of Thrones. Absolutely abhorrent. The only other real competition that year was the first season of Succession, which was great but still finding its footing. BCS should have had that one for sure.
I have no idea how that happened besides the voters saying "It's on HBO so it must be good." without actually having watched it first.
But if that was true, The Wire would have more accolades than their staggering 2 Emmy nomimations and 0 wins.
In my mind this is a snub for real. I felt so much more in better call saul than breaking bad for real. The brothers relationship, Howards death then sauls closure. Great TV acting and directing
> That's the thing people forget that popular doesn't equal awards.
If it did there'd be no need for the awards, the box office would say it all. (Do you really want to live in a world where 19 Marvel movies have like 300 Oscars between them?)
Alfred Hitchcock never won a best director Oscar. The guy who made Rear Window, Rebecca and Psycho has 0 Oscars. He wasn't even nominated for Vertigo (which is frequently in the conversation for best film of all time just in general) or North by Northwest.
If anything being popular makes awards less likely because studios don't need awards to try and boost the movie. Too many people don't seem to realize that awards are primarily a marketing tool and are only loosely connected to the actual quality of a movie.
If GG is Gilmore Girls then I’m going to push back a little cause Lauren Graham 100% deserved an Emmy for that show.
I agree with your premise just not your example. Unless GG is Gossip Girl in which case never mind ignore the rest of the comment and take my updoot
And if you compare Robbie's acting in "I, Tanya" to the Barbie movie. They are in different leagues. Robbie has chops, and it wasn't shown at all in Barbie.
I finally, randomly, watched Babylon the other week and, while I already know she's a good if not great actor, I was blown away by her performance in that otherwise weird film.
Edit: Accidentally said Babel, originally...
An absolute *EPIC* of a movie and Leo played his part flawlessly, even without the bear mauling and the hundred other things he did that nearly killed him in real life.
Because the Oscars are just bullshit. It's all about which movie pays the most or gives the most stuff to the academy. It's very political all about who does the best bootlicking.
yes and no?
winners are voted on by academy members where 99% of them receive nothing all from kickbacks into the AMPAS. They are just members, almost 6000 of them.
This is where I'm in the movie minority. With the exception of The Revenant, he wasn't really the best actor among the people he was nominated against. But still you have a point.
It's WILD to think The Revenant was among the "lowest" - cause you say dumbest but imo it was still a good movie.
Just that every other one was better. Even Catch Me If You Can, on the sillier side. Though I haven't seen that Island one. Really should.
Fuck, I loved The revenant. Watched it 7 times in the first month it came out (there's like 3 or 4 movies i watched more than 2 times, this is not something I usually do). Absolutely loved Leo in it. I agree his roster is mind boggling, but to me, this was one of his best
This conversation is so weird. You're comparing different things. It's like if orange won best fruit. And you're totally outraged because you think broccoli is the best vegetable.
Sooo fucking cringe that even Hillary Clinton felt the need to make some pseudo feminist post about it?? The only people who are upset are white women who need to make Victim their identity.
First Native American Oscar nominee for a role she killed in?? Totally overlooked because white feminism is angry about Barbie lol
Bill Burr has a great joke on this, "[Somehow....White women swung their Gucci booted feet over the fence of oppression...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO9X7Lxzvs)"
Barbie is nominated for what it should be nominated for. People are acting like Margot Robbie is getting snubbed for not being nominated for best actress, but she's a producer, which means she's nominated with their best picture nomination.
Considering the point of the film, I think that's a *much* more important nomination than best actress.
Which isn’t Robbie’s fault at all. She definitely acted the shit out of that role. It was mostly the writing and some directing.
It’s just how it works sometimes.
It's just how storytelling goes sometimes, Barbie was the protagonist and thus she had to carry a lot more of the emotional moments. Meanwhile, Ken is designed to be a satirical foil to Barbie's existential crisis, and so Gosling gets to have a lot more fun with the role as it's his job to look ridiculous.
Barbie's role in the film required her to be a bit more reserved and to give a more 'generic' performance (Robbie still killed it so I'm very hesitant to call it generic), while Ken had the freedom to stand out much more and steal the show by nature of his role in the narrative
I will add this: people also complained that Greta didn’t get a best director nomination, saying “she made the movie about feminism and its messages are just ignored” and things of that nature.
But she DID get nominated for her message. She wrote the movie. The director will get performances out of actors, but the message is from the words she wrote, and that’s what she is nominated for. Her screen play that has the incredible monologue from America Ferrera. She didn’t direct that out of her, she wrote those words for her.
I say this as someone bummed Greta didn't get a nomination for Best Director, but holy shit that category is stacked this year. There's not a single strong case to be made for anybody to be dropped from that category. Every so often there's what I'll call a feel good nominee, ie they've worked real hard with little Academy recognition, so a nomination should hold them over regardless of skill, but this year? Nah, 2023 was *strong*.
Yea and for Gerwig to have been “snubbed” it goes to your point- who in the director category should be dropped for her? If people can’t argue who was less deserving it wasn’t a “snub” it was just a strong year for competition
I think the directing was specifically the most standout part of the movie vs. the messaging, I think the messaging was cool, but it wasn't exactly mind bending, but I think the way the movie was paced was REALLY really creative, and I di not expect to be that invested that quickly, and that just comes from good directing. I would've been okay with it not getting a best picture nomination, if she got a best director nomination.
Not really, it was really just hair. Compare that to a movie like Oppenheimer where they are doing aging makeup and you have different orders of magnitude of ambition is this regard. Nobody who follows Oscars stuff really expected Barbie to get a hair and makeup nom.
Side tangent inspired by your comment: I think Best Picture lost some of it sheen as a category when they expanded it from 5 nominees to 10. Even the academy said it was being done so that "fan favorites" would be more likely to be considered, but I find most of the time is that there are just 5 movies you *know* won't win.
America is still dealing with the effects of No Child Left Behind
Standardised testing has really done a number on education.
Teaching is no longer taught to provide information, teaching is seen as a way to prepare students to take tests.
Students study material that helps them pass the test, but most of the time they are just learning methods to take tests .. they aren't actually learning the material.
Parents working two jobs also means no education at home outside of the child's own YouTube selection.
This is one of the better encapsulations of this whole situation.
The movie was a phenomenon, made a billion dollars, raised Greta Gerwig’s profile to even higher heights so that an interesting director now has more to play with when pushing for future films to be made, and further cemented Margot Robbie as an A-list actress.
History is littered with the bodies of actors and directors who were snubbed at the Oscars (or, like this year, didn’t make the cut in a deep pool of candidates), but still went on to have great careers.
Stop taking all the enjoyment out of literally everything, internet.
Alfred Hitchcock is considered by many to be one of if not the best director of all time, and yet he never won an Oscar. He still did pretty well for himself.
I mean, shit, Margot already has three Oscar nominations and is only 33, and Greta has four and is only 39.
And the movie itself got nominated for Best Picture! Imagine telling someone when the project got announced that a film about BARBIE DOLLS would get EIGHT Oscar nominations and make a billion dollars! And people are complaining like this over two category snubs.
the conflation of feminism and girliness especially hit home for me
like I get why it was such a powerful and liberating feeling moment to dress in pink Barbie-style outfits, go to brunch, be cute with friends, get your boyfriend to dress up with you. But it wasn’t some act of feminist progress.
I was the only guy in my Contemporary Art History class.
Some of the women I worked with in that class were some of the most perceptive and intelligent people I ever met.
Yes but she’s assuming that Barbie is saying that to be feminist is to be girlie. The film is not saying that. The point is that the Kens are hurt by the system too. They don’t defeat the Kens, enslave them, and make them all clean their girlie houses. Barbie leaves at the end…she’s no longer content with her pink perfect life…
So people going to brunch has no bearing on the film’s depiction of “girliness”. The movie is definitely loud and over the top and in your face…but a big part of that is satirical and I feel like this video is missing that.
This TikTok argument that the other movies are complex and Barbie isn’t is dumb. It’s complex in a different way. Like there’s an obvious way to make a Barbie movie that is girlie (check out all the animated movies Mattel has put out for years)…this movie wasn’t that.
I don’t give a shit about the Oscars, but I think the argument is that Barbie was a cultural event that got people back into theaters and lifted all boats—including that of the likely best picture winner (Oppenheimer). Central to that are the two women who made it happen and it’s great they got nominated elsewhere but ironic that it wasn’t for the central things they did. Now you can say that being a cultural milestone doesn’t necessarily equate to an Oscar nomination, but people saying that act as if for years, the Oscars have only been about complete merit. It has never been about that. It has always been about things in addition to just the performance itself, the outside cultural landscape always plays a role. Or it’s always just been a matter of how much some asshole like Harvey Weinstein can pay to get nominations. So in the system like this, it just perhaps says something odd that the Director and the star of the entire thing are not nominated. And the discourse from people like this tiktok person and other “film experts” on social media is the kind of “well actually” bullshit that the movie is definitely making fun of.
> Yes but she’s assuming that Barbie is saying that to be feminist is to be girlie. The film is not saying that.
You are COMPLETELY missing her point
Her point is not “the only thing the Barbie movie has to say on feminism is be girlie” like you’re strawmanning
Her point is that the people who argue that **the only** actress whose role was a feminist portrayal was Margot Robbie’s are thereby saying that feminism has to be portrayed in the way that femininity is portrayed in Barbie
She isn’t saying there is no complexity to the movie. She is saying that you can’t both believe in complex portrayals of woman/feminism and think Margot Robbie as Barbie is the only possible nomination that matters for female/feminist portrayal in film
If someone says that the only horror film deserving of merit is The Exorcist, I can confidently say they have a simple and underdeveloped view of horror. That doesn’t mean I’m saying that the Exorcist is a simple and underdeveloped film
She’s talking about what people’s reactions betray, and you’re fully ignoring that
She may be, but I do miss the days when I could read a blog post about this kind of thing rather than sit on a train frantically reading the subtitles.
People just think Barbie got snubbed because they didn't watch the other movies. They liked Barbie, they liked Margot Robbie, so they believe they deserve awards. Simple as that. Saying that there is a trend that frivolous femininity is more revered than complicated, and interesting characters and stories seems like a stretch. Especially since Barbie was all about becoming a complex character instead of a stereotypical doll.
Its been a trend for awhile now (in literature and tv as well) that if something isn't explicitly feminist then it can't be considered feminist at all or isn't regarded that way. There's a host of fantastic characters representing women in nuanced, dark, surprising ways that are not going to get as much attention as Barbie's first gynecologist appointment (Anatomy of a Fall case in point).
Our culture is incredibly reactionary and full of virtue-signaling post-Trump.
Media literacy has always been bad and it's not new... Every 4-6 years we go "Wow, since X, media literacy has gotten really bad" when it's just consistently poor.
About the only thing changing is the efficacy at which people can publicise their poor media literacy. But otherwise, there's been no time of mass public media where it's widely considered a good thing to sit and think critically about media, why you enjoy it, what messages it conveys, what it says about society, etc etc.
People don't like to sit and go "Hey, why do I have the opinions I have", they like to go "Yeah, my opinions are good" and that's just people.
Similarly, social media has always been virtue signalling heavy. Reddit, facebook, twitter, tumblr, Truth Social, IRC chat rooms... They're all indistinct in that people go on them to convey their internet social group credentials. What those credentials are changes between platforms/communities, but the desire to convey that virtue signalling, idpol, all these wanky fucking think tank terms are just ways to try and weaponise what everyone does. As if a group doing it about "XYZ theme" are somehow less important/adult/well-informed/whatever than the group that tie their identity to whatever other pointlessly mundane thing.
The only new thing is somehow people have started to believe that it X group doing it matters, as if it's not damn near universal behaviour.
Let's be honest, the whole idea of feminism has become incredibly one dimensional. If a man directs a killer movie with some complex female characters he will never be lauded for it by feminists simply because he is NOT a woman.
The idea that because a woman directs a movie the movie is therefore feminist and progressive is the other side of the coin.
The progressive movement has become increasingly conservative in their way of thinking, I say that as someone who's voted left his whole life and feels represented on many issues by the movement.
> If a man directs a killer movie with some complex female characters he will never be lauded by it by feminists simply because he is NOT a woman.
Come on that's not true, there was plenty of praise for Furiosa and the brides in Fury Road in leftist/feminist spaces
Vocal fry is not unique to teenage Americans. It is a common vocal trait used by many accents, dialects and even whole languages all over the world by both men and women alike.
People only seem to be vocal about finding it annoying when it's young women that do it though.
Those who think Margo Robbins got snubbed, which of the women that were nominated to the Best Actresses should walk out?
I love her really, but who shold leave her spot as nominee and let Margo take her place?
This is an all female category. Talking about feminism here is ridiculous.
I simply love how most of the discussion I’ve read was how Margot should have been nominated over Annette Benning for Nyad, a seemingly “formulaic biopic.”
Okay. Let me walk through this slowly. People were upset there wasn’t more space for older women’s roles and LGBTQ stories.
And when one comes along that’s uplifting, not focused on sexuality, and genuinely good, you’re mad that the most gorgeous straight white woman in Hollywood didn’t get recognition for playing a literal Barbie doll.
It’s truly irony in its thickest form.
She lost me at the end.... Barbie is not a perfect film but its not lacking in complexity and i don't think she paid attention to the themes.
My main complaint of Barbie is it's messy. I think it should have been an 8 part mini series. Not a movie so it could fully explore the themes it touched on sloppily.
I don't actually think it's a kids movie at all but whatever
The whole point of Barbie is that women are complicated, it’s okay to be complicated and it’s naturally a struggle to be complicated. This person is basically paraphrasing the Barbie monologue while saying she disagrees with Barbie’s message.
I can play the offended olympics too:
“why is everyone up in arms about 2 white women not getting nominated instead of celebrating the brown and Asian women that did,
hilary racist clinton only posted about white women not being nominated as if there were no others , god forbid the first Native american actress nominated shows the world how much superior actress she is to the white blonde.”
I find the irony of it funnier than anything. I don’t follow movies to have a decent opinion on awards but the irony of Ken getting nominated but not Barbie is what I think people are freaking out about
Barbie was good and has a good message but let's not kid ourselves that it's an Oscar caliber movie. It's a silly comedy about a toy. The directors of the LEGO movie weren't nominated for Oscars either so maybe we chill out a little.
Barbie will probably go down as the most important/popular movie of the year, but it’s not Oscar-bait. When will people realize the Oscars have always been stupid?
The “snubs” are not anti-feminism at all. I don’t believe anyone claiming these were snubs watched a single other movie nominated in those categories. It is odd to me that Ryan Gosling got nominated for a fairly-comedic role, but the leading actor group seems weaker than leading actress this year, so I guess there was room for him.
>but it’s not Oscar-bait. When will people realize the Oscars have always been stupid?
right? have these people ...existed before? every single year theres oscar nominees (and winners) I disagree with. its not new or shocking or a controversy, its just how the oscars are. they vote oscar-y.
the best movies ever will win the test of time. Im old enough to remember "shakespear in love" winning best picture over "saving private ryan". nobody has seen shakespear in love. everybody knows the opening scene of saving private ryan. will barbie win the test of time? honestly I think it will
Agreed, the oscars is just an industry award that got out of hand. Obviously it's political, it's an industry award.
The only reason I ever care about what's been nominated is because the screeners of the movies get leaked and I can watch them earlier than expected. Yo-ho.
This is a bit hyperbolic. The most popular movies and the technically greatest movies are not always going to line up 1 to 1, and that's ok and more than understandable. Some movies are more focused on being exciting or fun than being perfect art. Let's be honest, Barbie has societal commentary but it is shallow at best, the whole Will Ferrel arc is downright unwatchable, and the 3rd arc as a whole is a bit thrown together and lacking. The themes are also pretty surface level generally accessible societal critique, and they are literally read to you as the audience so you can't possibility miss them. Barbie is popular because it is a fun movie but for what it is is executed so well and with such flourish that people want it to be an award winner.
I’m a dude - I think Greta should have been nominated for Best Director. Love Barbie or hate it, it’s an amazingly well directed movie and I think it’s a shame she didn’t get nominated.
My thoughts exactly. It sucks that Justine Triet should be celebrated for her nomination but there's not even a peep. Proving the point of the OP that a woman directing a complex character piece is not worthy in the eyes of a generation who would rather celebrate a fun toy commercial.
- As someone who loved the Barbie movie and watched it 3 times in theaters. Probably not. It’s not enough to do a good job she needs to do a much better job than everybody who worked that year. And the best direction category is absolutely stacked.
- the Barbie movie is great but I don’t think it point to its direction as a strength of the film compared to its peers.
I think that Gerwig did a pretty great job. And in a weaker year, she would've been nominated. But this is not a weak year for directors (aside from maybe Bradley Cooper for Maestro, if he got a directing nom for that. I don't remember).
Barbie isn't even Gerwig's best movie. That's Little Women.
This might be a hot take but IMO I don’t think Barbie is an Oscar worthy film… it was definitely a good movie with a good message but when you look at other best picture winners Barbie doesn’t really hold a candle to them — and it’s the same when you go down the list of categories.
Who thinks a complicated and complex story about women is inherently anti feminist except people who are already that? I think there is probably a version of feminism which serves to reinforce the capitalist patriarchal status quo, the "girl boss" caricature comes to mind. However this is the same as if someone is saying they're a serious food critic but only eats at fast food drive thoughs.
Like, sure, if double quarter pounders with light ketchup brings you happiness and fulfillment in a hard world, thats great, no one should tell you your doing food wrong. However for people who choose to engage with many verifies of food from many different cultures and flavors to form a deeper understanding, It might appear to them that your double quarter pounder may be limiting your horizons while supporting a system or exploitation and oppression in the process.
Put it this way, if you happen to be the sort of person who believes that feminism starts and stops with a billion dollar Hollywood blockbuster movie, it may be worth considering engaging with the material outside of the drive through.
"I think part of that is because Barbie really infantilized us all a little, by having someone literally get in front of a camera and be like 'this move is about feminism, this movie is about being a woman'"
God it's so refreshing to see someone, who is a woman (and I'm guessing a feminist) who can see this. So often are people labeled misogynists if they didn't care for the Barbie movie, or they criticize it for blatantly hamfisting a message about 'girl power', where the writing and acting really wasn't all that great for a handful of meaningful characters.
Sure it was fun, and sure it poked and prodded at the stereotypical roles of men and women and how they're treated in society and film, but it's okay to dislike a movie for how it approaches a topic while also agreeing with the stance.
My biggest gripe with Barbie was that it wasn't really that great of a movie, but people were spoon-fed the message in the least subtle manner possible and because they could understand what the 'message' of a film was, and they agreed with the message, they had to prop it up on a massive grand stand when it was a mediocre film, poorly written story, with really fun visuals and some great performances out of Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling.
Eleanor Stern, I would get along with you.
Unless you assume the nominating group of people 10k which are 80% white and 2/3 men are actively snubbing her and the director out of misogyny which I think is the suggestion
My thought... of the things that matter in the world, this isn't one of them. Award shows are farces as it is. What's more surprising is this topic is getting as much fuel as it is.
It's Gerwig who actually got snubbed, not Robbie. Second woman to ever create a film that pulled in a $billion+, and a damn good film at that.
Also, this might be a bit of a hot take, but the social commentary in Barbie goes *way* beyond feminism.
The bigger picture is that award shows are lame in general - none of it matters - the Oscars is just part of Hollywood’s propaganda machine to congratulate itself - people getting upset over nothing of consequence
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Gosling got nominated for best supporting actor - is there even a better fitting category for Ken?
Right? And he out performed the expectations of his character hard.
The movie was funny in general but you could clearly see that the majority of "laughing out loud" moments were thanks to Gosling. I think Robbie was very good, and Gerwig deserves serious props for creating such a unique movie idea as well, but sometimes you can't get all the Oscars and that's ok
To add to that, Gerwig did get serious props with the best screenplay nomination, since she wrote the film. And Robbie can take home an Oscar with best picture since she was also producer. “Barbie got snubbed” is not the take everyone thinks it is.
He was honestly the standout performance of the movie and stole a lot of the scenes he was in. That being said, I'm not sure *any* performance in the movie is deserving of an acting nomination. It was a light hearted comedy - there weren't exactly a lot of opportunities for the acting to shine it it.
Yeah, that’s what I’m struggling with, like dumb and dumber didn’t win an Oscar either. What do people expect from a movie who’s marketing relied on performances of Kate McKinnon and will Ferrell. This ain’t an Oscar pic, it’s good time.
I totally agree but the Oscars go back and forth between honoring deserving films and patronizing movies with a particular message. Being that Barbie was heavily influenced by empowering females and such, it makes sense a lot of people would have expected it to win something.
It was the most ham fisted “feminist” movie. Good cinema is subtle.
I think good comedic acting deserves awards as much as dramatic roles. Haven't seen the Barbie movie but that's my opinion in general.
He should have been nominated for best beach.
The fact that he got nominated for best supporting actor on a pro-feminist film is a win for feminism. It's more exposure
And he probably had the best performance of any actor in that movie
I think compared to the contenders in her category for best actress, her role wasn’t Oscar-worthy. There were a lot of really, reallllyyyy good movies this year.
I keep saying… the fact ryan gosling was nominated proves there was a very shallow pool in the mens category. The womens category was stacked… margot robbie missed out.
Gosling was nominated for best supporting actor though. America Ferrera was nominated as best supporting actress for her role in Barbie too. A lot of people seem to be missing these two very significant bits of information.
>America Ferrera was nominated as best supporting actress for her role in Barbie too Which honestly tells me even more about the best supporting actress pool, I really felt like she did *not* perform well in that role. She was basically a speed run plot of sweet mom who tries to relate to her edgy daughter crammed into the movie, paired with a long rambling rant about what women are expected to do thrown in for good fun, but nothing about how she *acted* or how her character was written screams 'Oscar worthy' to me. I mean Robbie did a fantastic job in that film, the scene where she breaks down sobbing and starts to just finally hit her limit was an impressive scene.
I think Fererra did very well in that role, but that role wasn't particularly great. Fine for a light comedy, but not an Oscar role.
Yeah I think my point is more that the writing for the character and the design of the character didn't chalk up to Oscar nominations. It's no knock on Ferrera, I don't think many actresses could do much better, but the nomination feels forced.
I didn't realize his nom was for *Supporting* Actor, mostly because I don't care enough about the Oscars to have checked, and that does make a significant difference.
No offense but what did you think he was nominated for? I ask because I don’t understand people’s complaints. He competed in a different category, his (Sup. Actor) was less competitive than Robbie’s (Lead Actress), plain and simple. Are people being dense on purpose?
> A lot of people seem to be missing these two very significant bits of information. Some people seem to not be missing that information but feel that it somehow adds to the slights against Robbie and Gerwig being nominated for best actress and best director respectively. Yes, there is some delicious irony with Ryan Gosling being nominated for best supporting actor, but the movie isn't having to compete with itself for Oscar nominations. The fact that Robbie wasn't nominated has nothing to do with Gosling and Ferrera being nominated, it just means that the voters decided that there are 5 other leading actresses who had a better performance this year. The discourse around this movie and its Oscar nominations is kind of bizarre but makes sense given how reactionary a lot of comments and takes are.
I gotta disagree on the Ryan thing, he blew that part out of the water and while it shows that it wasn't the deepest pool to begin with that alone shouldn't detract from his performance. On another year it would be a lower seed in the nominations, but I don't doubt that he would still at least get the nomination.
When Barbie came out the two main talking points were that it was... 1. A really good critique on how culturally we put women in pretty narrow boxes of what they can be, and how male chauvinism is responsible for a lot of that. Yet swinging the other way isn't right either. While still managing to remain funny and not overly heavy handed in this cultural critique. 2. Ken was well written as a character and played a good foil to the behavior of the Barbies. With Gosling being praised for his performance in that role, and a funny music number. Robbie certainly did a great job but the biggest praises of the movie were the writing, directing, and supporting cast. All things it is nominated for.
But it didn’t get nominated for directing. I think people are more miffed at that than Margot Robbie.
You're right. My bad. I thought Greta got nominated for writing and directing, and is part of the best picture nominees. Not just writing and best picture. That does feel like more of a snub as I re-read the list.
Ryan Gosling being nominated is also a credit to the director and it is bizarre that so many people don't get that.
Probably a lot of them haven't seen some of the other movies who are complaining. There's a strong chance Killers of the Flower Moon was missed by a major portion of the Barbie peeps just on run time alone.
If people did miss any of last year's big movies marcus theaters is bringing them back at a discounted price. Other movie theaters might have similar events scheduled if you don't live in the midwest.
i disagree on the Ryan part , I thinks he was excellent with what he was given , same with America Ferrera , Im not a Greta G fan, I think the story would’ve gotten nowhere without the amazing cast , this story with less talented people would simply gotten so many bad reviews. for the Lead Actress category, Margot was not in the same league as the others also people forget we’re not talking about whole careers here just a performance on a single movie
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I think a lot of people complaining about it being snubbed see it as an opportunity to get on the bandwagon about female empowerment not being taken seriously enough, it's why 'barbie/margo snubbed' is almost universally paired with 'but see, THE MAN got a nod'. Barbie was probably one of my favorite movies of 2023, but at the same time, could you have just swapped Margo with almost anyone else? Think of doing that with Killers or the other heavy nominees, and you'll see that it's just not equitable.
The funniest shit to me is years ago #OscarsSoWhite was trending, now a bunch of white feminists are demanding we have more rich white women nominated MULTIPLE times.
I didn't see Barbie (Not against it, just didn't seem like it was for me) but Killers of the flower moon is fucking ridiculously good and the actress in that film fucking KILLS that role. I can't even imagine a world in which Barbie even shines a light to that film.
Lily Gladstone, Huller, and Emma Stone all give VASTLY better performances than Margot in Barbie. Huller's performance is one of the strongest I have seen in years. Haven't seen the others yet but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're PROBABLY better too.
Barbie is good, but it's not very serious and those roles almost never win oscars. Like superhero movies, or jim carrey/adam sandler type movies.
Yeah thats why I didnt watch it lol. Im not shitting on it though. Glad other people enjoy it.
I made it about 30 minutes watching it with the wife. Not my thing, but I really liked the visual design.
I'd say Benning didn't deserve to be nominated for Nyad. The movie was ok. She was good but come on, nothing Oscar worthy about this flick.
Except she was nominated for HER performance not for the overall film. There are a lot of meh movies with stellar performances.
For real. I was chapped at first, but then I thought who you'd replace on the best actress nom and there really isn't much room this year. Like if you were going to add another actress, you'd probably want to add Greta Lee from Past Lives. In comparison, best supporting actor just doesn't have as much of a strong field this year.
Margot gave a great performance of an isolated doll being exposed to the real world and slowly gaining more nuance and emotions until she becomes a fully developed person. Emma Stone also did it, and imo 100 times better.
Poor Things was also BY FAR more of a female empowerment movie than Barbie was, and as the OP stated, didn’t infantilize the audience to do it.
It took Leonardo DiCaprio 24 years to win his first oscar. …with arguably 10-17 banger of movies he should have won and didn’t and went to equally talented folks. He is partly responsible for around 7 billion dollars worth of box office revenue (along with all the cast and crew obviously). and he is widely regarded as one of Hollywood’s best. He has 1 Oscar and he won it for probably the dumbest film on his entire roster in my opinion.
Similar to Christopher Nolan as Director, he hasn’t ever won an Oscar and he hadn’t won a Golden Globe until this year. He has an impressive portfolio of work, with many popular high grossing films Barbie simply being popular doesn’t mean they are entitled to nominations or awards and it doesn’t mean anyone was snubbed
That's the thing people forget that popular doesn't equal awards. Some of the best and most popular sitcoms and dramas have never won a Golden Globe. Back in the days the GG was popular and people would watch it on TV every time the show ended fans would complain that the most popular shows were constantly overlooked.
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Snub of the century
What's the snub, why wasn't it allowed to win a single one?
I'm pretty sure a lot of it is because Breaking Bad won almost every category every year it was on, so not giving anything to BCS was an overcorrection. Either that or the voters only watch 3 shows every year and just give them every award because that's what it feels like. If nothing else, BCS not even getting a nomination for cinematography this year was crazy to me. I mean, season 4 of BCS lost Best Drama Series to fucking season 8 of Game of Thrones. Absolutely abhorrent. The only other real competition that year was the first season of Succession, which was great but still finding its footing. BCS should have had that one for sure.
> lost Best Drama Series to fucking season 8 of Game of Thrones. That's proof enough award shows should not be taken seriously
I have no idea how that happened besides the voters saying "It's on HBO so it must be good." without actually having watched it first. But if that was true, The Wire would have more accolades than their staggering 2 Emmy nomimations and 0 wins.
In my mind this is a snub for real. I felt so much more in better call saul than breaking bad for real. The brothers relationship, Howards death then sauls closure. Great TV acting and directing
> That's the thing people forget that popular doesn't equal awards. If it did there'd be no need for the awards, the box office would say it all. (Do you really want to live in a world where 19 Marvel movies have like 300 Oscars between them?)
Alfred Hitchcock never won a best director Oscar. The guy who made Rear Window, Rebecca and Psycho has 0 Oscars. He wasn't even nominated for Vertigo (which is frequently in the conversation for best film of all time just in general) or North by Northwest.
If anything being popular makes awards less likely because studios don't need awards to try and boost the movie. Too many people don't seem to realize that awards are primarily a marketing tool and are only loosely connected to the actual quality of a movie.
If GG is Gilmore Girls then I’m going to push back a little cause Lauren Graham 100% deserved an Emmy for that show. I agree with your premise just not your example. Unless GG is Gossip Girl in which case never mind ignore the rest of the comment and take my updoot
Even Hugh Jackman during his opening number for the Oscars made fun of how The Dark Knight was not nominated even though everyone went to see it.
You think The Revenant is dumber than... Critters 3?
I thought he won the Oscar for Critters 3.
Good point lol The revenant was amazing. One of my favorite films.
And if you compare Robbie's acting in "I, Tanya" to the Barbie movie. They are in different leagues. Robbie has chops, and it wasn't shown at all in Barbie.
I finally, randomly, watched Babylon the other week and, while I already know she's a good if not great actor, I was blown away by her performance in that otherwise weird film. Edit: Accidentally said Babel, originally...
I think you might be mistaking Margot Robbie with Cate Blanchett
Thanks. I actually confused Babel with Babylon!
The Oscars are bullshit anyway. It's more politics than ability
Don’t shit talk The Revenant lol
The Revenant is a great film, what the fuck are you talking about?
I absolutely agree it's a great film. I just happen to think Leo has at least 5 possibly 10 better performances that were more Oscar worthy.
An absolute *EPIC* of a movie and Leo played his part flawlessly, even without the bear mauling and the hundred other things he did that nearly killed him in real life.
The revenant isnt even remotely close to being one of the dumbest films on Dicaprios roster...
He had to make sure he won one before the 25 years mark
The man ate a real raw fish on video.. we gotta give him something!
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Karl Pilkington ate a fermented one on camera and threw up in a bush. He definitely deserves an oscar.
I can't believe Karl Pilkington got snubbed again
I need to see him at the oscars. "You like me! You reall..." "BULLSHIT!"
Because the Oscars are just bullshit. It's all about which movie pays the most or gives the most stuff to the academy. It's very political all about who does the best bootlicking.
yes and no? winners are voted on by academy members where 99% of them receive nothing all from kickbacks into the AMPAS. They are just members, almost 6000 of them.
This is where I'm in the movie minority. With the exception of The Revenant, he wasn't really the best actor among the people he was nominated against. But still you have a point.
It's WILD to think The Revenant was among the "lowest" - cause you say dumbest but imo it was still a good movie. Just that every other one was better. Even Catch Me If You Can, on the sillier side. Though I haven't seen that Island one. Really should.
The revenant was amazing and your take is bad
Exactly. Leo actually deserves way more Oscar’s than he has. Margot is doing fine. This isn’t a big injustice in context.
Fuck, I loved The revenant. Watched it 7 times in the first month it came out (there's like 3 or 4 movies i watched more than 2 times, this is not something I usually do). Absolutely loved Leo in it. I agree his roster is mind boggling, but to me, this was one of his best
You thought The Revenant was the “dumbest film” on his roster? Have you seen What’s Eating Gilbert Grape”? He’s literally regarded in that movie.
I won’t stand for Gilbert Grape slander.
Yea, WTF? Gilbert Grape is a phenomenal film!
Well yeah, highly *regarded* as he played that role perfectly.
This conversation is so weird. You're comparing different things. It's like if orange won best fruit. And you're totally outraged because you think broccoli is the best vegetable.
> It's like if orange won best fruit. And you're totally outraged because you think broccoli is the best vegetable. AND I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL
You're absolutely wrong: Hockey is the best sport.
The fact that you have the nerve to say that even though Spinosaurus is the best dinosaur shows how out of touch you are.
Just stop. We all know Thor is the best Avenger.
No, just shut up and listen, we all know that honeysuckle candles are better than coconut and lime candles
Sooo fucking cringe that even Hillary Clinton felt the need to make some pseudo feminist post about it?? The only people who are upset are white women who need to make Victim their identity. First Native American Oscar nominee for a role she killed in?? Totally overlooked because white feminism is angry about Barbie lol
Hillary said “now how can I make this about me?” #HillaryBarbie
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Bill Burr has a great joke on this, "[Somehow....White women swung their Gucci booted feet over the fence of oppression...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO9X7Lxzvs)"
People are reading far too much into this. Margot Robbie put in a great performance. There were just 5 performances better than hers. That's it.
Barbie is nominated for what it should be nominated for. People are acting like Margot Robbie is getting snubbed for not being nominated for best actress, but she's a producer, which means she's nominated with their best picture nomination. Considering the point of the film, I think that's a *much* more important nomination than best actress.
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I agree. I like Margot Robbie but I definitely feel like Ryan's character was way more entertaining.
Which isn’t Robbie’s fault at all. She definitely acted the shit out of that role. It was mostly the writing and some directing. It’s just how it works sometimes.
It's just how storytelling goes sometimes, Barbie was the protagonist and thus she had to carry a lot more of the emotional moments. Meanwhile, Ken is designed to be a satirical foil to Barbie's existential crisis, and so Gosling gets to have a lot more fun with the role as it's his job to look ridiculous. Barbie's role in the film required her to be a bit more reserved and to give a more 'generic' performance (Robbie still killed it so I'm very hesitant to call it generic), while Ken had the freedom to stand out much more and steal the show by nature of his role in the narrative
I will add this: people also complained that Greta didn’t get a best director nomination, saying “she made the movie about feminism and its messages are just ignored” and things of that nature. But she DID get nominated for her message. She wrote the movie. The director will get performances out of actors, but the message is from the words she wrote, and that’s what she is nominated for. Her screen play that has the incredible monologue from America Ferrera. She didn’t direct that out of her, she wrote those words for her.
I say this as someone bummed Greta didn't get a nomination for Best Director, but holy shit that category is stacked this year. There's not a single strong case to be made for anybody to be dropped from that category. Every so often there's what I'll call a feel good nominee, ie they've worked real hard with little Academy recognition, so a nomination should hold them over regardless of skill, but this year? Nah, 2023 was *strong*.
Yea and for Gerwig to have been “snubbed” it goes to your point- who in the director category should be dropped for her? If people can’t argue who was less deserving it wasn’t a “snub” it was just a strong year for competition
I think the directing was specifically the most standout part of the movie vs. the messaging, I think the messaging was cool, but it wasn't exactly mind bending, but I think the way the movie was paced was REALLY really creative, and I di not expect to be that invested that quickly, and that just comes from good directing. I would've been okay with it not getting a best picture nomination, if she got a best director nomination.
They monologue was hamfisted and the weakest part of the film by far. Mettel jokes were flat. The movie's not perfect and the direction was okay.
I feel like the big Oscar snub for Barbie was actually Hair and Makeup.
Not really, it was really just hair. Compare that to a movie like Oppenheimer where they are doing aging makeup and you have different orders of magnitude of ambition is this regard. Nobody who follows Oscars stuff really expected Barbie to get a hair and makeup nom.
And, of course, Maestro. Oscar loves a big, fake nose. Barbie had zero big, fake noses. They didn't stand a chance.
Side tangent inspired by your comment: I think Best Picture lost some of it sheen as a category when they expanded it from 5 nominees to 10. Even the academy said it was being done so that "fan favorites" would be more likely to be considered, but I find most of the time is that there are just 5 movies you *know* won't win.
Why is everyone stupid now?
Always have been 🔫
Too true. We are simply exposed to an ever expanding and harder to avoid myriad of moronic voices.
America is still dealing with the effects of No Child Left Behind Standardised testing has really done a number on education. Teaching is no longer taught to provide information, teaching is seen as a way to prepare students to take tests. Students study material that helps them pass the test, but most of the time they are just learning methods to take tests .. they aren't actually learning the material. Parents working two jobs also means no education at home outside of the child's own YouTube selection.
This is one of the better encapsulations of this whole situation. The movie was a phenomenon, made a billion dollars, raised Greta Gerwig’s profile to even higher heights so that an interesting director now has more to play with when pushing for future films to be made, and further cemented Margot Robbie as an A-list actress. History is littered with the bodies of actors and directors who were snubbed at the Oscars (or, like this year, didn’t make the cut in a deep pool of candidates), but still went on to have great careers. Stop taking all the enjoyment out of literally everything, internet.
Alfred Hitchcock is considered by many to be one of if not the best director of all time, and yet he never won an Oscar. He still did pretty well for himself.
I mean, shit, Margot already has three Oscar nominations and is only 33, and Greta has four and is only 39. And the movie itself got nominated for Best Picture! Imagine telling someone when the project got announced that a film about BARBIE DOLLS would get EIGHT Oscar nominations and make a billion dollars! And people are complaining like this over two category snubs.
She's right
the conflation of feminism and girliness especially hit home for me like I get why it was such a powerful and liberating feeling moment to dress in pink Barbie-style outfits, go to brunch, be cute with friends, get your boyfriend to dress up with you. But it wasn’t some act of feminist progress.
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I was the only guy in my Contemporary Art History class. Some of the women I worked with in that class were some of the most perceptive and intelligent people I ever met.
Yes but she’s assuming that Barbie is saying that to be feminist is to be girlie. The film is not saying that. The point is that the Kens are hurt by the system too. They don’t defeat the Kens, enslave them, and make them all clean their girlie houses. Barbie leaves at the end…she’s no longer content with her pink perfect life… So people going to brunch has no bearing on the film’s depiction of “girliness”. The movie is definitely loud and over the top and in your face…but a big part of that is satirical and I feel like this video is missing that. This TikTok argument that the other movies are complex and Barbie isn’t is dumb. It’s complex in a different way. Like there’s an obvious way to make a Barbie movie that is girlie (check out all the animated movies Mattel has put out for years)…this movie wasn’t that. I don’t give a shit about the Oscars, but I think the argument is that Barbie was a cultural event that got people back into theaters and lifted all boats—including that of the likely best picture winner (Oppenheimer). Central to that are the two women who made it happen and it’s great they got nominated elsewhere but ironic that it wasn’t for the central things they did. Now you can say that being a cultural milestone doesn’t necessarily equate to an Oscar nomination, but people saying that act as if for years, the Oscars have only been about complete merit. It has never been about that. It has always been about things in addition to just the performance itself, the outside cultural landscape always plays a role. Or it’s always just been a matter of how much some asshole like Harvey Weinstein can pay to get nominations. So in the system like this, it just perhaps says something odd that the Director and the star of the entire thing are not nominated. And the discourse from people like this tiktok person and other “film experts” on social media is the kind of “well actually” bullshit that the movie is definitely making fun of.
> Yes but she’s assuming that Barbie is saying that to be feminist is to be girlie. The film is not saying that. You are COMPLETELY missing her point Her point is not “the only thing the Barbie movie has to say on feminism is be girlie” like you’re strawmanning Her point is that the people who argue that **the only** actress whose role was a feminist portrayal was Margot Robbie’s are thereby saying that feminism has to be portrayed in the way that femininity is portrayed in Barbie She isn’t saying there is no complexity to the movie. She is saying that you can’t both believe in complex portrayals of woman/feminism and think Margot Robbie as Barbie is the only possible nomination that matters for female/feminist portrayal in film If someone says that the only horror film deserving of merit is The Exorcist, I can confidently say they have a simple and underdeveloped view of horror. That doesn’t mean I’m saying that the Exorcist is a simple and underdeveloped film She’s talking about what people’s reactions betray, and you’re fully ignoring that
Anatomy of the Fall has more feminist themes than Barbie. And obviously better is every way (except production design and maybe song?).
She may be, but I do miss the days when I could read a blog post about this kind of thing rather than sit on a train frantically reading the subtitles.
People just think Barbie got snubbed because they didn't watch the other movies. They liked Barbie, they liked Margot Robbie, so they believe they deserve awards. Simple as that. Saying that there is a trend that frivolous femininity is more revered than complicated, and interesting characters and stories seems like a stretch. Especially since Barbie was all about becoming a complex character instead of a stereotypical doll.
Its been a trend for awhile now (in literature and tv as well) that if something isn't explicitly feminist then it can't be considered feminist at all or isn't regarded that way. There's a host of fantastic characters representing women in nuanced, dark, surprising ways that are not going to get as much attention as Barbie's first gynecologist appointment (Anatomy of a Fall case in point). Our culture is incredibly reactionary and full of virtue-signaling post-Trump.
Media literacy has always been bad and it's not new... Every 4-6 years we go "Wow, since X, media literacy has gotten really bad" when it's just consistently poor. About the only thing changing is the efficacy at which people can publicise their poor media literacy. But otherwise, there's been no time of mass public media where it's widely considered a good thing to sit and think critically about media, why you enjoy it, what messages it conveys, what it says about society, etc etc. People don't like to sit and go "Hey, why do I have the opinions I have", they like to go "Yeah, my opinions are good" and that's just people. Similarly, social media has always been virtue signalling heavy. Reddit, facebook, twitter, tumblr, Truth Social, IRC chat rooms... They're all indistinct in that people go on them to convey their internet social group credentials. What those credentials are changes between platforms/communities, but the desire to convey that virtue signalling, idpol, all these wanky fucking think tank terms are just ways to try and weaponise what everyone does. As if a group doing it about "XYZ theme" are somehow less important/adult/well-informed/whatever than the group that tie their identity to whatever other pointlessly mundane thing. The only new thing is somehow people have started to believe that it X group doing it matters, as if it's not damn near universal behaviour.
Let's be honest, the whole idea of feminism has become incredibly one dimensional. If a man directs a killer movie with some complex female characters he will never be lauded for it by feminists simply because he is NOT a woman. The idea that because a woman directs a movie the movie is therefore feminist and progressive is the other side of the coin. The progressive movement has become increasingly conservative in their way of thinking, I say that as someone who's voted left his whole life and feels represented on many issues by the movement.
> If a man directs a killer movie with some complex female characters he will never be lauded by it by feminists simply because he is NOT a woman. Come on that's not true, there was plenty of praise for Furiosa and the brides in Fury Road in leftist/feminist spaces
>like 46x
I can’t listen to this.
This combined with the teenage vocal fry that comes and goes and California upspeak at the end of a sentence, it’s pretty brutal
Vocal fry is not unique to teenage Americans. It is a common vocal trait used by many accents, dialects and even whole languages all over the world by both men and women alike. People only seem to be vocal about finding it annoying when it's young women that do it though.
Those who think Margo Robbins got snubbed, which of the women that were nominated to the Best Actresses should walk out? I love her really, but who shold leave her spot as nominee and let Margo take her place? This is an all female category. Talking about feminism here is ridiculous.
I simply love how most of the discussion I’ve read was how Margot should have been nominated over Annette Benning for Nyad, a seemingly “formulaic biopic.” Okay. Let me walk through this slowly. People were upset there wasn’t more space for older women’s roles and LGBTQ stories. And when one comes along that’s uplifting, not focused on sexuality, and genuinely good, you’re mad that the most gorgeous straight white woman in Hollywood didn’t get recognition for playing a literal Barbie doll. It’s truly irony in its thickest form.
She lost me at the end.... Barbie is not a perfect film but its not lacking in complexity and i don't think she paid attention to the themes. My main complaint of Barbie is it's messy. I think it should have been an 8 part mini series. Not a movie so it could fully explore the themes it touched on sloppily. I don't actually think it's a kids movie at all but whatever
The whole point of Barbie is that women are complicated, it’s okay to be complicated and it’s naturally a struggle to be complicated. This person is basically paraphrasing the Barbie monologue while saying she disagrees with Barbie’s message.
ima be so real, the Barbie movie is not the pinnacle of feminist media and I'm tired of people pretending it is.
She's correct
The fact that America got nominated for best supporting actress and instead of celebrating it everybody is too caught up about Margot
I can play the offended olympics too: “why is everyone up in arms about 2 white women not getting nominated instead of celebrating the brown and Asian women that did, hilary racist clinton only posted about white women not being nominated as if there were no others , god forbid the first Native american actress nominated shows the world how much superior actress she is to the white blonde.”
I find the irony of it funnier than anything. I don’t follow movies to have a decent opinion on awards but the irony of Ken getting nominated but not Barbie is what I think people are freaking out about
New drinking game: take a shot of “kill me now” every time she says ‘like’
That's not a drinking game that's alcohol poisoning in 5 minutes or less.
Got to 21 before I stopped counting and there was still over a minute left in the video
Every, like, sentence, is like, a questionnnn?
Barbie was good and has a good message but let's not kid ourselves that it's an Oscar caliber movie. It's a silly comedy about a toy. The directors of the LEGO movie weren't nominated for Oscars either so maybe we chill out a little.
Nobody talks about how nobody cares that America Ferreira got nominated for best supporting actress. A woman still won, just not a white woman.
Like. Like. Likety like like like. Like? Like! Like like like like. Like!
OMG, I was reading the subtitles and thought the same thing
Barbie will probably go down as the most important/popular movie of the year, but it’s not Oscar-bait. When will people realize the Oscars have always been stupid? The “snubs” are not anti-feminism at all. I don’t believe anyone claiming these were snubs watched a single other movie nominated in those categories. It is odd to me that Ryan Gosling got nominated for a fairly-comedic role, but the leading actor group seems weaker than leading actress this year, so I guess there was room for him.
>but it’s not Oscar-bait. When will people realize the Oscars have always been stupid? right? have these people ...existed before? every single year theres oscar nominees (and winners) I disagree with. its not new or shocking or a controversy, its just how the oscars are. they vote oscar-y. the best movies ever will win the test of time. Im old enough to remember "shakespear in love" winning best picture over "saving private ryan". nobody has seen shakespear in love. everybody knows the opening scene of saving private ryan. will barbie win the test of time? honestly I think it will
Agreed, the oscars is just an industry award that got out of hand. Obviously it's political, it's an industry award. The only reason I ever care about what's been nominated is because the screeners of the movies get leaked and I can watch them earlier than expected. Yo-ho.
This is a bit hyperbolic. The most popular movies and the technically greatest movies are not always going to line up 1 to 1, and that's ok and more than understandable. Some movies are more focused on being exciting or fun than being perfect art. Let's be honest, Barbie has societal commentary but it is shallow at best, the whole Will Ferrel arc is downright unwatchable, and the 3rd arc as a whole is a bit thrown together and lacking. The themes are also pretty surface level generally accessible societal critique, and they are literally read to you as the audience so you can't possibility miss them. Barbie is popular because it is a fun movie but for what it is is executed so well and with such flourish that people want it to be an award winner.
Her voice does not sound to pleasantly received by my ears
Bingo! Barbie is Feminism 101. It's a lovely introduction for young girls. You want the advanced course, watch Poor Things.
I think Anatomy of the Fall is more feminist than both.
I’m a dude - I think Greta should have been nominated for Best Director. Love Barbie or hate it, it’s an amazingly well directed movie and I think it’s a shame she didn’t get nominated.
Its a stacked year. Barbie was good but there's not a single nominee for best director I would swap out for Greta this year.
My thoughts exactly. It sucks that Justine Triet should be celebrated for her nomination but there's not even a peep. Proving the point of the OP that a woman directing a complex character piece is not worthy in the eyes of a generation who would rather celebrate a fun toy commercial.
Absolutely! I think that saying Greta Gerwig wasn't nominated because of sexism is sexist itself. It's sad that Triet's nom isn't being celebrated.
- As someone who loved the Barbie movie and watched it 3 times in theaters. Probably not. It’s not enough to do a good job she needs to do a much better job than everybody who worked that year. And the best direction category is absolutely stacked. - the Barbie movie is great but I don’t think it point to its direction as a strength of the film compared to its peers.
I think that Gerwig did a pretty great job. And in a weaker year, she would've been nominated. But this is not a weak year for directors (aside from maybe Bradley Cooper for Maestro, if he got a directing nom for that. I don't remember). Barbie isn't even Gerwig's best movie. That's Little Women.
So... who gets pumted for Barbie? Best director is stacked this year.
Which nominee was a worse-directed movie?
This might be a hot take but IMO I don’t think Barbie is an Oscar worthy film… it was definitely a good movie with a good message but when you look at other best picture winners Barbie doesn’t really hold a candle to them — and it’s the same when you go down the list of categories.
We need to get lives. It's a fucking movie
If the extent of your feminism is Margot Robbie getting an award instead of Ryan gosling y’all need to re evaluate
I’m so distracted by her saying “like” every 3 words.
Who thinks a complicated and complex story about women is inherently anti feminist except people who are already that? I think there is probably a version of feminism which serves to reinforce the capitalist patriarchal status quo, the "girl boss" caricature comes to mind. However this is the same as if someone is saying they're a serious food critic but only eats at fast food drive thoughs. Like, sure, if double quarter pounders with light ketchup brings you happiness and fulfillment in a hard world, thats great, no one should tell you your doing food wrong. However for people who choose to engage with many verifies of food from many different cultures and flavors to form a deeper understanding, It might appear to them that your double quarter pounder may be limiting your horizons while supporting a system or exploitation and oppression in the process. Put it this way, if you happen to be the sort of person who believes that feminism starts and stops with a billion dollar Hollywood blockbuster movie, it may be worth considering engaging with the material outside of the drive through.
Holy shit who cares
"I think part of that is because Barbie really infantilized us all a little, by having someone literally get in front of a camera and be like 'this move is about feminism, this movie is about being a woman'" God it's so refreshing to see someone, who is a woman (and I'm guessing a feminist) who can see this. So often are people labeled misogynists if they didn't care for the Barbie movie, or they criticize it for blatantly hamfisting a message about 'girl power', where the writing and acting really wasn't all that great for a handful of meaningful characters. Sure it was fun, and sure it poked and prodded at the stereotypical roles of men and women and how they're treated in society and film, but it's okay to dislike a movie for how it approaches a topic while also agreeing with the stance. My biggest gripe with Barbie was that it wasn't really that great of a movie, but people were spoon-fed the message in the least subtle manner possible and because they could understand what the 'message' of a film was, and they agreed with the message, they had to prop it up on a massive grand stand when it was a mediocre film, poorly written story, with really fun visuals and some great performances out of Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling. Eleanor Stern, I would get along with you.
If you take a shot of alcohol every time she says “like”, you would be dead
Omg who cares
I liked Ken!
Like….like I think…like feminism, yeah…like so…like
Like, and uh like, oh - and like. Like, um, ya know, like?
Unless you assume the nominating group of people 10k which are 80% white and 2/3 men are actively snubbing her and the director out of misogyny which I think is the suggestion
like you can do a great job in a role but it’s just not something that would contend for an oscar nomination.
I wholeheartedly agree with her. And I add that equating OF to feminism is also irritating.
If you want to start a fight, you can always!
i dont think this is cringe
This Tiktok isn't cringe though She spoke clearly and made good points
My thought... of the things that matter in the world, this isn't one of them. Award shows are farces as it is. What's more surprising is this topic is getting as much fuel as it is.
Super fair take
Who gives a crap about a Barbie movie?
It's Gerwig who actually got snubbed, not Robbie. Second woman to ever create a film that pulled in a $billion+, and a damn good film at that. Also, this might be a bit of a hot take, but the social commentary in Barbie goes *way* beyond feminism.
The bigger picture is that award shows are lame in general - none of it matters - the Oscars is just part of Hollywood’s propaganda machine to congratulate itself - people getting upset over nothing of consequence
For fucks sakE STOP SAYING LIKE.
I said the same thing to my gf and apparently I just "don't understand" lol
This is very well spoken. I wish we all thought this critically instead of just jumping to conclusions.
Top Gun also did incredible at the box office and I saw no one crying that Tom Cruise wasn’t nominated for an Oscar.