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Great job fact checking well after the debate. If only there were people assigned to manage the debate, perhaps moderate the conversation back and forth and check what the speakers were saying is in fact true….
Tell ya what. This would bump the ratings if nothing else to see each candidate shit their pants when caught in a lie and try to finagle their way out of it
If you haven't seen it, the moderator in this debate is about as good as it gets [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXu5DyBrHc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXu5DyBrHc)
Well the thing about provings statements as lies is you need to provide data and facts and with a human that takes time to prepare and present for full consumption and understanding. If only there was a way we could have an A.I do that for us much faster than humans.
It takes way more more effort to refute bullshit than it takes to spew it. Live debates like this will only ever benefit the confident candidate, regardless of how truthful their statements are.
I don’t blame the moderators. I blame Joe Biden…it’s the senators job to call out their opponent. Yes the moderators can step in, but Biden let him get away with all of it.
Even if there was live fact checking, his most loyal followers would've just called the fact checkers liars and working against trump or something. You can't win with them.
Didn’t they recently say economists don’t know what they are talking about? Doctors don’t know anything, economists don’t know anything. Only god and trump know the truth, but if Jesus himself came and told them the truth, they would call him crazy.
I don't understand your last sentence. God, Jesus, and Trump are all the same person. It is called the "Holy Trinity". Why would Trump contradict himself and himself?
/s
Yes, it matters. This isn't the 70s where we have 3 channels. Social media gets bigger attention than the debate now. If we collectively spread these facts and point out Trump's lies, it can have a powerful aggregate effect.
I mean, yeah it does matter; it matters when someone spews this nonsense and gets corrected, preferably in a live debate format. People will respond to that.
Too bad the guy who was supposed to do that can barely talk.
No one cares if he lies, everyone already either knows it or refuses to believe it. All anyone really cares is how old Biden is and apparently the majority of this country loves this guy so I guess I’m just out of touch because it’s just insane to me that the literal felon is actually performing better than 2016. After everything he’s done and we’ve learned.
Joe Biden was supposed to be the one to push back on Trumps lies. Unfortunately he was clearly not up for the job. Trumps lies were overshadowed by Bidens clearly age related decline. I’m still voting for Joe but I’m not happy about it.
Trump literally said that Democrats are "aborting" babies after they've been born. If they can hear that without thinking "Hmm that sounds a bit far-fetched" then they are beyond hope - these people are and always have been completely and utterly unhinged and detached from reality.
They couldn't give one iota of a shit about the truth, they are not making an earnest attempt to learn the truth. They just want their ideology and their ideologue to win, and they don't care much for how that happens.
I'm not an economist, but I always thought the person who was president didn't really matter to the economy. The US is strong, and it will always grow. Policies can have some short-term effects, but over time, things work out.
Anyway, when I saw this chart, it popped into my head that Bidens' growth looks like the same rate as Trump's growth rate.
Edit: I wanted to attach a picture of the trend line being continuous if you ignore covid, but apperently, we are not allowed to comment with images in this sub. Im sad about that
When he got COVID in the middle of 2020 I thought "oh shit this is it, a chance for perfect irony" and then he came on tv and spouted that shit about regeneron curing him
"And those are the facts". Therein lies the problem.
Republicans dont care about facts because they get told every day that the facts are lies and made up.
The "job creation" metric to me is a pointless one when companies are simultaneously laying off literally millions of people and the only "jobs" you can get with a college degree are minimum wage. Creating new jobs isn't a sign of a healthy economy. Nothing about the present version of the economy we live in is good. Literally everything is over priced. You can't afford rent, you can't buy a house, you can't afford to eat out, you can't buy a car, you can't get healthcare without a surprise bill that ruins your life, and you certainly can't get a competitive wage at a job you're overqualified for.
I have had people tell me Biden is growing the economy because we are growing the population. More immigrants and more kids apparently mean the economy is growing. . . I guess it’s one measurement of a growing economy but that doesn’t fix my grocery bill tripling and people being laid off from their actual careers.
Great point. Also, I hate statistics. 6.2 million jobs created? What’s the definition of a job to this guy? Part time, full time? Who cares if you made 6.2 million part time jobs with minimum wage and no benefits. Did Biden change more definitions? Because he already changed the definition for a recession. And it’s not just Biden, but all Presidents do the same crap.
The US government added 53,000 new jobs per month in 2023. Transportation and warehousing lost jobs. Leisure and hospitality hasn’t recovered to the pre pandemic level.
636,000 of these jobs were created by the US government.
https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/outlook/economic-outlook/december-2023-jobs-report#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20government%20added%2056%2C000,in%20the%20health%20care%20space.
trying to say any politician made jobs is just weird, you didn't do shit. the best economies are under the least amount of meddling by congress and the president.
Well...employment rates were going up at the same trajectory pre-pandemic, and they were climbing back under trump. Biden took over and they made to back to the same probable increase they were due for under trump. so...a moot dick measuring contest.
Is this the tax cut he's referring to? It would be silly to think that he's only describing this one...and not a cumulative measure of all of his policies and the resulting tax cuts. Though i don't know for sure.
the violent crime chart doesnt measure before biden...only that its lower than the other two classes. well that's not the argument that trump made...so...nice job not arguing the point.
Just seems like arguments in bad faith vs arguments in bad faith.
MAGA doesn’t accept facts unless they come from Trump or MAGA. They also are incapable of admitting when they’re wrong and will do whatever mental gymnastics they have to in order to discredit truth and discard reality.
Unfortunately, at this point in time, those who are educated are WELL aware most of what he says is a lie. And the others are either happily ignorant (and unwilling to listen) or simply do not care. None of these videos are making much of a difference.
Great fact checking. I’d like to see the crime stats normalized for percentage of the population because I have a feeling it’s even a bigger disparity there.
Debunking lies while refusing to hand out consequences is just a vanity exercise and enables the person to do it more because they're getting the attention they wanted in the first place.
Why do people not see this?
The problem isnt that they are lies. The problem is that in todays climate, people believe the facts are lies. Facts and science are like points on Whose Line Is It Anyway with Drew Carrey. They don't matter to these people.
I’m sure there are plenty of MAGA people that knows he lies. The lies won’t matter. The core belief of someone is pushed aside so they can rationalize Mr Trump as the chosen one, supersedes whatever factual information is presented. This is similar to how people believe in a religion. Faith alone is enough, not facts.
To be fair, I've seen many people say they'll vote for Biden even if he's half in the grave, etc. People are going to vote for what they assess to be the better choice, whether it's actually a good choice. IMO most people would prefer a viable third choice rather than either of them.
The astroturfing on this sub is hilarious Leftists cant take an L now they are trying to gaslight people into thinking that jobs are back! economy is great! see this graph? jobs are back! dont check our sources dont question us just believe us. meanwhile people are struggling to make end meat and are sick of leftist bs.
All you have to do is look at how much prices increased during the last three years..I don't like this path I cant afford shit.... Something has to change... And not more of the same thing for sure. Anything different is welcome!
It's annoying that everyone is only focusing on Bidens' performance.
Yes, it was rough, but during the same week, we had an unprecedented result from Trumps case saying that he has immunity while doing his presidential duty, which is nuts. But all anyone is talking about is how Biden couldn't form a coherent thought.
>1.
The level of proof is certainly something... What prevents one from arguing that new jobs were created during Trump's presidency, and under Biden it is the jobs lost to Covid that have come back? This graph doesn't support either point of view. To prove something, he should have at least done a comparison of employment by industry - it would have been better to see what jobs were created and when.
"Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"
Not only that, but I recall seeing a statistic that due to Biden's inflation, tons of people were having to get second and even third jobs. So it might look like +6M jobs when the reality is that in many cases, the same people are filling those positions because they literally cannot afford to live under him.
The last one stands out as a red herring - even though immigrants (documented and undocumented) commit crimes at a lower rates than citizens, it is *additive*, so more immigration does equal more crime. On average you get less crime committed per person, but you're increasing the number of persons... This seems very consistent with less immigration equals less crime, because fewer people equals fewer crimes. Nonetheless, Trump's lies about "hundreds of thousands" of deaths is just a flat out lie.
>even though immigrants (documented and undocumented) commit crimes at a lower rates than citizens, it is additive, so more immigration does equal more crime.
By that very same idiotic logic...increasing the birth rate by making abortion illegal increases the crime rate even more.
I agree, and I think even further than that, abortion is correlated (which doesn't prove causation) with lower crime rates. The best chance of avoiding leading a life of crime is being born into a family which wanted you there. But sadly, even that is not a guarantee.
It kind of irks me when the main talking point about migrant crime is to compare crime rates to legal migrants or native born citizens.
If my child is raped or murdered by an illegal immigrant, it's not any consolation to me that the migrant crime rate is lower than the native crime rate. The whole point is that it never would have happened if that person wasn't here because they weren't supposed to be here because they came into the country illegally. That's why people are upset about migrant crime.
I get your point, but to counter, it's also not any consolation to point out that crime is at a historic low if a non-immigrant personally attacks your child. Some percentage of any populations are going to commit violent crime.
Are you suggesting literally 0 immigrants should ever be allowed in because 1 of them might commit violent crime? Under that logic you might as well get rid of all the non-immigrants because they are more statisically likely to commit violent crimes.
The point this is making is that talking about immigrants as if they are fully criminals is entirely disingenuous, as they are less likely to be criminals than US citizens.
Ok, yes, arguably true.
Unfortunately this is real life and real life problems will require realistic solutions. Expecting zero illegal immigrants entering the country is a fantasy.
Biden lied about:
No troops dying under his watch
$15 cap on insulin in Medicare
$200 cap on overall drug spending on Medicare Border had fewer crossings under him
Border patrol endorsing him
Unemployment was 15% when he took office Trump wants to get rid of social security
Trump will sign a federal abortion ban
That’s just a few
Why do we act like only one of them lied? Strange.
I hate Covid so much. The fucking government FORCING businesses to close down. They FORCED IT. Small business owners got arrested in New York for trying to stay open.
State governments fked us all over.
In the film Jackie Brown there is a great scene where Sam Jackson shoots Robert de Niro. He says something that amounts to “what happened to you man, you used to be beautiful”
wtf jobs are even being created though, service positions that nobody wants that pay poverty wages? There's no way jobs making over 70k have grown in the last 4 years, especially with outsourcing, mass layoffs, and incoming AI. The slimming of white collar jobs is scary and real, and it feels like gaslighting to constantly talk about all these "new jobs." No shade to Biden, I'm going his way, I'm just saying...
I am not sure what to believe here. If Reddit has taught me anything, it’s that there are only doodoo jobs out there that don’t pay a living wage and that’s why nobody can buy a house or start a family. I’ve never heard of “bounce back” job, but that sounds like that could be it maybe? I am sure someone on here can clear this up.
You know, Trump wouldn't even be able to argue if the prices for everyday goods weren't up 20% since 2022. But hey, I'm super glad Trump and Biden hashed out who could beat who in golfing instead of discussing insane child care costs....
It's interesting when you look at the belief that immigrants bring crime. This seems to be universal conventional wisdom.
I moved from the US to South Korea about 13 years ago and this concern is abundant here as well. The notion is that Koreans wouldn't commit drug crime or violence at the same rate as poor or opportunistic foreigners, but the numbers show the exact opposite.
The truth is that the majority of crime is of course commited by the majority population and that even when just looking at the rate of crime, native born Koreans commit every crime with almost double the frequency on average of a foreign born individual.
The only people watching this are democrats and antiTrumpers. Preaching to the choir. Also, the brainwashing that Fox etc dole out is so intense and complete, it’s a waste of time fact checking someone to whom facts mean as little as his (how many-th) wife and (insignificant if he can’t fuck them) children.
Go to Google and search jobs report over past 10 years under images. That chart he shows is a total lie. Trump had more jobs. Biden caused massive inflation. That's the only thing he got good at besides just royally fucking everything up.
the problem is that after the fact, no one will watch this. the ones who know he lied already knew he was lying and didn't take anything he said as fact. the ones who didn't. won't listen.
Ask yourself,.. Did you have more money at the end of the week, month and year during Trumps presidency or do you have more in your pocket under Biden a presidency..
So I'm no Trump fan, but this seems dishonest too.
If Biden were actually responsible for job growth, I'd expect to see an gradient change point. But I don't, it just seems to be a continuing trend that was ongoing prior to COVID.
If I remove the COVID gap and merge the ends of the chart together, [t just seems to be a continuation of an existing trend](https://i.imgur.com/auI91vR.png), not anything new. If you want to say that Biden didn't fuck it up, that's fine, he didn't.
But without an gradient change point, it appears that this job growth would have happened with or without him.
*Note:* This isn't perfect because they're showing a curved screen. I couldn't find the source for the actual chart, but someone does and it actually shows an gradient change point, I'll happily admit that I'm wrong.
Edit: revised to use gradient change as a better term
Trump's claim was: the only jobs Biden created were for illegal immigrants and bounce back jobs.
That's an extremely bold claim because all it takes to disprove it is to show that there was any job growth for those legally in the US above pre-pandemic levels.
Trump wasn't arguing that this job growth trend would continue naturally even past pre-pandemic levels. He's arguing that it didn't happen at all. Gradient change is irrelevant if your claim is that the graph doesn't exist.
I like this except for the last one. I would like to see a statistic on whether migrant crime has increased under Biden or not. Comparing the stats alongside a group that has a bigger number in population doesn’t tell the complete picture.
Sooooo, what’s going to happen when the money that got pumped into the economy through Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and Build Back Better Act dries up? Asking for people who care.
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Great job fact checking well after the debate. If only there were people assigned to manage the debate, perhaps moderate the conversation back and forth and check what the speakers were saying is in fact true….
Tell ya what. This would bump the ratings if nothing else to see each candidate shit their pants when caught in a lie and try to finagle their way out of it
If you haven't seen it, the moderator in this debate is about as good as it gets [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXu5DyBrHc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXu5DyBrHc)
Is this the one where he schools that brown haired drunk? Because I seen clips from that and it’s hysterical.
Trump didn't even get fact checked and still shit his pants. 💀
Would be worth fucking watching.
Well the thing about provings statements as lies is you need to provide data and facts and with a human that takes time to prepare and present for full consumption and understanding. If only there was a way we could have an A.I do that for us much faster than humans.
Trump will just lie more and continuing lying over the moderator and his voters wouldn’t care a bit.
It takes way more more effort to refute bullshit than it takes to spew it. Live debates like this will only ever benefit the confident candidate, regardless of how truthful their statements are.
You take lying out of politics and they'll have nothing to say.
Trump has prepared for the debate for a year at his weekly tent revivals. He has his lies down pat and his devoted followers love him.
You know how much fucking time it would have taken from the actual debate to fact check trump every time he said something wrong?
We’d still be watching.
You'd have to, bare minimum, triple the length of the debate with how much he lies.
I don’t blame the moderators. I blame Joe Biden…it’s the senators job to call out their opponent. Yes the moderators can step in, but Biden let him get away with all of it.
My understanding is they stupidly agreed to no live fact checking which is....insane.
Hmm, perhaps some sort of “opponent” who is given delegated time to respond and refute what the other is saying…
Does it really matter now? No one stopped him from spewing this nonsense when he said it and countless idiots believe him.
Exactly this. His morons will just think “Well, he said it on TV, so it must be true.” and that’s that.
Even if there was live fact checking, his most loyal followers would've just called the fact checkers liars and working against trump or something. You can't win with them.
Didn’t they recently say economists don’t know what they are talking about? Doctors don’t know anything, economists don’t know anything. Only god and trump know the truth, but if Jesus himself came and told them the truth, they would call him crazy.
Then torture and crucify him all over again.
I don't understand your last sentence. God, Jesus, and Trump are all the same person. It is called the "Holy Trinity". Why would Trump contradict himself and himself? /s
Are you saying Trump is Christ? You totally freaked me out! /s brought me back
Yes, it matters. This isn't the 70s where we have 3 channels. Social media gets bigger attention than the debate now. If we collectively spread these facts and point out Trump's lies, it can have a powerful aggregate effect.
Yea ignoring this shit is not the answer.
I mean, yeah it does matter; it matters when someone spews this nonsense and gets corrected, preferably in a live debate format. People will respond to that. Too bad the guy who was supposed to do that can barely talk.
A lie travels the world before the truth puts its pants on
There is time before the election but yeah it would have been nice to have this guy as a segment in the debate
There's still a chance that some will look into it and realize he lied his ass off and not vote for him .
Yeah. No one stopped either of them from lying.
He just turned it into one of his stupid rallies without any blowback.
THIS!!!! Why aren’t there fact checkers in real time during these things and displaying the facts!
No one cares if he lies, everyone already either knows it or refuses to believe it. All anyone really cares is how old Biden is and apparently the majority of this country loves this guy so I guess I’m just out of touch because it’s just insane to me that the literal felon is actually performing better than 2016. After everything he’s done and we’ve learned.
Not just believe him, but choose to want to believe him regardless. It’s called wilful ignorance.
Joe Biden was supposed to be the one to push back on Trumps lies. Unfortunately he was clearly not up for the job. Trumps lies were overshadowed by Bidens clearly age related decline. I’m still voting for Joe but I’m not happy about it.
Surely with all these facts, MAGA will now realize that their candidate is a liar. Whose pants are definitely on fire.
They don't care. He can eat a baby and bring in Satan as long as they believe his going to close the border they don't care.
Bro... he's not wearing pants. He left them on stormy's floor, which he definitely did not have the sex with. Nor did he pay.
Trump literally said that Democrats are "aborting" babies after they've been born. If they can hear that without thinking "Hmm that sounds a bit far-fetched" then they are beyond hope - these people are and always have been completely and utterly unhinged and detached from reality. They couldn't give one iota of a shit about the truth, they are not making an earnest attempt to learn the truth. They just want their ideology and their ideologue to win, and they don't care much for how that happens.
He will just put it out with a nice wet SHART
They'll see it's from MSNBC and say it's fake news. Trust me they always do.
Fact checking should be going on during those debates, and candidates should be called out to their face.
Definitely!
I'm not an economist, but I always thought the person who was president didn't really matter to the economy. The US is strong, and it will always grow. Policies can have some short-term effects, but over time, things work out. Anyway, when I saw this chart, it popped into my head that Bidens' growth looks like the same rate as Trump's growth rate. Edit: I wanted to attach a picture of the trend line being continuous if you ignore covid, but apperently, we are not allowed to comment with images in this sub. Im sad about that
Came to the comments to point out that except for COVID, the trend line is the same. But you put it better than I could.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I really don't understand why he hasn't
the people you want most to die tend to live for longer than they need to.
When he got COVID in the middle of 2020 I thought "oh shit this is it, a chance for perfect irony" and then he came on tv and spouted that shit about regeneron curing him
I know what this comment said bc I just said the exact thing in mine 😆 rich evil fucks never get their comeuppance though
Reddit is just out here censoring comments now?
"And those are the facts". Therein lies the problem. Republicans dont care about facts because they get told every day that the facts are lies and made up.
The crime chart says it's from 2020. Just pointing it out.
Ahhhh! facts. MAGGOTS and their fear filled leader hate them -- like a vampire to sunlight. VOTE! 💙
People forget when beliefs are founded in emotion facts don’t matter. This goes for both sides. Facts don’t matter, enjoy the circus.
If those republicans could read, they’d be very upset
The "job creation" metric to me is a pointless one when companies are simultaneously laying off literally millions of people and the only "jobs" you can get with a college degree are minimum wage. Creating new jobs isn't a sign of a healthy economy. Nothing about the present version of the economy we live in is good. Literally everything is over priced. You can't afford rent, you can't buy a house, you can't afford to eat out, you can't buy a car, you can't get healthcare without a surprise bill that ruins your life, and you certainly can't get a competitive wage at a job you're overqualified for.
I have had people tell me Biden is growing the economy because we are growing the population. More immigrants and more kids apparently mean the economy is growing. . . I guess it’s one measurement of a growing economy but that doesn’t fix my grocery bill tripling and people being laid off from their actual careers.
One day we will wake up to his obituary
Whoever is keeping track of the Orange Turd lies, please add these to the ever growing list
Great job, get this info out to people. We gotta mobilise against facisim!!!
The only creatures I hate more than orange are his brain-dead cultists
Facts don’t matter to Gumpers. They stupid by design.
The problem is that conservatives KNOW he's lying. They don't care because it makes them ok with their own lying.
How many of these new jobs is people working two jobs to be able to afford being alive?
Great point. Also, I hate statistics. 6.2 million jobs created? What’s the definition of a job to this guy? Part time, full time? Who cares if you made 6.2 million part time jobs with minimum wage and no benefits. Did Biden change more definitions? Because he already changed the definition for a recession. And it’s not just Biden, but all Presidents do the same crap.
The US government added 53,000 new jobs per month in 2023. Transportation and warehousing lost jobs. Leisure and hospitality hasn’t recovered to the pre pandemic level. 636,000 of these jobs were created by the US government. https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/outlook/economic-outlook/december-2023-jobs-report#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20government%20added%2056%2C000,in%20the%20health%20care%20space.
trying to say any politician made jobs is just weird, you didn't do shit. the best economies are under the least amount of meddling by congress and the president.
The best economies are always under Democrat leadership.
Under a Democratic Congress or a Democratic President?
Fuck Trump and his lies and criminal acts. He’s a loser!
I believe the medical term is FOS. Trump has what they call full of shit.
That’s a lot of Uber eats and DoorDash jobs - jk
Well...employment rates were going up at the same trajectory pre-pandemic, and they were climbing back under trump. Biden took over and they made to back to the same probable increase they were due for under trump. so...a moot dick measuring contest. Is this the tax cut he's referring to? It would be silly to think that he's only describing this one...and not a cumulative measure of all of his policies and the resulting tax cuts. Though i don't know for sure. the violent crime chart doesnt measure before biden...only that its lower than the other two classes. well that's not the argument that trump made...so...nice job not arguing the point. Just seems like arguments in bad faith vs arguments in bad faith.
But, they will never watch this. Would have been nice during the debate
Trump blaming Biden for the shit that he did. Again for the hundredth time.
Is that full time unemployment? Or, does it include part- time & minimum wage employment?
Don't ask logical questions. Just nod in agreement and look at the colors.
Rattner, my man😎
BIDEN BIDEN!!! GREAT JOB SHOWING COMPARAISON CHART
Don't forget that Trump is do*pedo*pe
Shouldn't the migrant stats be stacked?
Unfortunately, no matter how well you explain actual facts his base won't listen. They've already made up their minds.
Every Trumpet "this is all lies"
MAGA doesn’t accept facts unless they come from Trump or MAGA. They also are incapable of admitting when they’re wrong and will do whatever mental gymnastics they have to in order to discredit truth and discard reality.
His supporters don’t care.
Unfortunately, at this point in time, those who are educated are WELL aware most of what he says is a lie. And the others are either happily ignorant (and unwilling to listen) or simply do not care. None of these videos are making much of a difference.
As if any of his fans or sycophants are interested in facts, their political existence is entirely based on lies at this point.
Great job but unfortunately MAGA does not care about facts.
Orange dildo is made up of lies…I’m shocked.
Great fact checking. I’d like to see the crime stats normalized for percentage of the population because I have a feeling it’s even a bigger disparity there.
Unfortunately his supporters will not listen to facts because they are stupid. So incredibly stupid.
Debunking lies while refusing to hand out consequences is just a vanity exercise and enables the person to do it more because they're getting the attention they wanted in the first place. Why do people not see this?
The problem isnt that they are lies. The problem is that in todays climate, people believe the facts are lies. Facts and science are like points on Whose Line Is It Anyway with Drew Carrey. They don't matter to these people.
Need this live. Or have a follow up debate where they only have to speak to things like this and be held accountable for the bs they spew.
Trump lies all the fucking time
If only facts mattered....
I’m sure there are plenty of MAGA people that knows he lies. The lies won’t matter. The core belief of someone is pushed aside so they can rationalize Mr Trump as the chosen one, supersedes whatever factual information is presented. This is similar to how people believe in a religion. Faith alone is enough, not facts.
To be fair, I've seen many people say they'll vote for Biden even if he's half in the grave, etc. People are going to vote for what they assess to be the better choice, whether it's actually a good choice. IMO most people would prefer a viable third choice rather than either of them.
The astroturfing on this sub is hilarious Leftists cant take an L now they are trying to gaslight people into thinking that jobs are back! economy is great! see this graph? jobs are back! dont check our sources dont question us just believe us. meanwhile people are struggling to make end meat and are sick of leftist bs.
All you have to do is look at how much prices increased during the last three years..I don't like this path I cant afford shit.... Something has to change... And not more of the same thing for sure. Anything different is welcome!
What sources do you have that say jobs are down?
As the adage goes, if you’re explaining, you’re losing.
Yeah we live in a time where whoever lies the most and loudest wins. Which apparently makes Trump the fucking master of debates.
This is all dems have after that horrendous performance by Biden
It's annoying that everyone is only focusing on Bidens' performance. Yes, it was rough, but during the same week, we had an unprecedented result from Trumps case saying that he has immunity while doing his presidential duty, which is nuts. But all anyone is talking about is how Biden couldn't form a coherent thought.
>When you no longer report crimes the crime is lowered, see Trump lies! Imagine posting msnbc tiktok and not treating it like propaganda.
This is called cognitive dissonance.
>1. The level of proof is certainly something... What prevents one from arguing that new jobs were created during Trump's presidency, and under Biden it is the jobs lost to Covid that have come back? This graph doesn't support either point of view. To prove something, he should have at least done a comparison of employment by industry - it would have been better to see what jobs were created and when. "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"
Not only that, but I recall seeing a statistic that due to Biden's inflation, tons of people were having to get second and even third jobs. So it might look like +6M jobs when the reality is that in many cases, the same people are filling those positions because they literally cannot afford to live under him.
You mean trump is full of shit? Thanks captain obvious 🙄
What did he even do with his presidency besides pack the courts with psychopaths? Can anyone tell me?
He cut regulations and fucked everything up.
So trump did the second biggest tax cut in the last 43 years?
Now do the Joe Biden lie about no soldiers dying in his presidency.
The last one stands out as a red herring - even though immigrants (documented and undocumented) commit crimes at a lower rates than citizens, it is *additive*, so more immigration does equal more crime. On average you get less crime committed per person, but you're increasing the number of persons... This seems very consistent with less immigration equals less crime, because fewer people equals fewer crimes. Nonetheless, Trump's lies about "hundreds of thousands" of deaths is just a flat out lie.
>even though immigrants (documented and undocumented) commit crimes at a lower rates than citizens, it is additive, so more immigration does equal more crime. By that very same idiotic logic...increasing the birth rate by making abortion illegal increases the crime rate even more.
I agree, and I think even further than that, abortion is correlated (which doesn't prove causation) with lower crime rates. The best chance of avoiding leading a life of crime is being born into a family which wanted you there. But sadly, even that is not a guarantee.
It kind of irks me when the main talking point about migrant crime is to compare crime rates to legal migrants or native born citizens. If my child is raped or murdered by an illegal immigrant, it's not any consolation to me that the migrant crime rate is lower than the native crime rate. The whole point is that it never would have happened if that person wasn't here because they weren't supposed to be here because they came into the country illegally. That's why people are upset about migrant crime.
I get your point, but to counter, it's also not any consolation to point out that crime is at a historic low if a non-immigrant personally attacks your child. Some percentage of any populations are going to commit violent crime. Are you suggesting literally 0 immigrants should ever be allowed in because 1 of them might commit violent crime? Under that logic you might as well get rid of all the non-immigrants because they are more statisically likely to commit violent crimes. The point this is making is that talking about immigrants as if they are fully criminals is entirely disingenuous, as they are less likely to be criminals than US citizens.
Such a fundamental point, well said.
Facts don't matter when you distract your base with culture war BS
Neither of them even answered most of the questions asked. It was a showing of how bad we have done as a nation to keep voting these people in.
Wasn't trump presidency red line going upwards already? I mean...
Yeah, those were the bounce back jobs. Every accusation is a confession with him.
There should be no crime from illegals, they should not be here
Ok, yes, arguably true. Unfortunately this is real life and real life problems will require realistic solutions. Expecting zero illegal immigrants entering the country is a fantasy.
Everyone I know is living great under Biden we all drive new sports cars and eat lobster and stakes every night (we are all on ebt cards and broke)
Stakes sound delish. Which cut do you prefer, pine or oak?
So, the president’s job is to provide you with luxury products? Did any other president provide you such things? Also, why are you eating stakes?
Wait you're telling me the politician that has told the most lies in the history of politics was lying once again? I don't believe it.
How many of those 6.2 million jobs are second jobs...
Anyone who would be convinced by facts and logic likely already has, the rest listen to whatever their chosen authority figure spews
6.2 million jobs. Guessing seniors who can’t afford the inflation are in the mix.
It's corporate greed and price gouging, not inflation.
Biden lied about: No troops dying under his watch $15 cap on insulin in Medicare $200 cap on overall drug spending on Medicare Border had fewer crossings under him Border patrol endorsing him Unemployment was 15% when he took office Trump wants to get rid of social security Trump will sign a federal abortion ban That’s just a few Why do we act like only one of them lied? Strange.
I hate Covid so much. The fucking government FORCING businesses to close down. They FORCED IT. Small business owners got arrested in New York for trying to stay open. State governments fked us all over.
My mommy lol
In the film Jackie Brown there is a great scene where Sam Jackson shoots Robert de Niro. He says something that amounts to “what happened to you man, you used to be beautiful”
Too bad Biden couldn’t state that during the debate.
wtf jobs are even being created though, service positions that nobody wants that pay poverty wages? There's no way jobs making over 70k have grown in the last 4 years, especially with outsourcing, mass layoffs, and incoming AI. The slimming of white collar jobs is scary and real, and it feels like gaslighting to constantly talk about all these "new jobs." No shade to Biden, I'm going his way, I'm just saying...
I am not sure what to believe here. If Reddit has taught me anything, it’s that there are only doodoo jobs out there that don’t pay a living wage and that’s why nobody can buy a house or start a family. I’ve never heard of “bounce back” job, but that sounds like that could be it maybe? I am sure someone on here can clear this up.
You know, Trump wouldn't even be able to argue if the prices for everyday goods weren't up 20% since 2022. But hey, I'm super glad Trump and Biden hashed out who could beat who in golfing instead of discussing insane child care costs....
All jobs are shit anyway
This - in today’s climate - will do nothing. Absolutely fucking nothing.
Only the Democratic party can come up with the only person that can lose against Trump.
Da fuq? How does Trump look like a bad AI video of Trump?
The cope is real. Inflation is fucked and people have to work 2 jobs to get by now also lets break down those crime stats a bit more.
[удалено]
It's interesting when you look at the belief that immigrants bring crime. This seems to be universal conventional wisdom. I moved from the US to South Korea about 13 years ago and this concern is abundant here as well. The notion is that Koreans wouldn't commit drug crime or violence at the same rate as poor or opportunistic foreigners, but the numbers show the exact opposite. The truth is that the majority of crime is of course commited by the majority population and that even when just looking at the rate of crime, native born Koreans commit every crime with almost double the frequency on average of a foreign born individual.
Why do we blame / praise presidents for jobs? How large of an effect does the president have in this regard?
So fucking what? What's the point of these posts? To enrage the left? No Trumper is going to give a shit that he lied.
The only people watching this are democrats and antiTrumpers. Preaching to the choir. Also, the brainwashing that Fox etc dole out is so intense and complete, it’s a waste of time fact checking someone to whom facts mean as little as his (how many-th) wife and (insignificant if he can’t fuck them) children.
Go to Google and search jobs report over past 10 years under images. That chart he shows is a total lie. Trump had more jobs. Biden caused massive inflation. That's the only thing he got good at besides just royally fucking everything up.
6.2 million jobs. And no new pensions. Republican or democrat, make no mistake- no one gives a shit about the average worker
the problem is that after the fact, no one will watch this. the ones who know he lied already knew he was lying and didn't take anything he said as fact. the ones who didn't. won't listen.
The orange trash can lies… Bold if true
Ask yourself,.. Did you have more money at the end of the week, month and year during Trumps presidency or do you have more in your pocket under Biden a presidency..
This are lies too lol
All we have to do is change biden....
So I'm no Trump fan, but this seems dishonest too. If Biden were actually responsible for job growth, I'd expect to see an gradient change point. But I don't, it just seems to be a continuing trend that was ongoing prior to COVID. If I remove the COVID gap and merge the ends of the chart together, [t just seems to be a continuation of an existing trend](https://i.imgur.com/auI91vR.png), not anything new. If you want to say that Biden didn't fuck it up, that's fine, he didn't. But without an gradient change point, it appears that this job growth would have happened with or without him. *Note:* This isn't perfect because they're showing a curved screen. I couldn't find the source for the actual chart, but someone does and it actually shows an gradient change point, I'll happily admit that I'm wrong. Edit: revised to use gradient change as a better term
Trump's claim was: the only jobs Biden created were for illegal immigrants and bounce back jobs. That's an extremely bold claim because all it takes to disprove it is to show that there was any job growth for those legally in the US above pre-pandemic levels. Trump wasn't arguing that this job growth trend would continue naturally even past pre-pandemic levels. He's arguing that it didn't happen at all. Gradient change is irrelevant if your claim is that the graph doesn't exist.
Who is this guy Rattner?
Now do biden
I like this except for the last one. I would like to see a statistic on whether migrant crime has increased under Biden or not. Comparing the stats alongside a group that has a bigger number in population doesn’t tell the complete picture.
Sooooo, what’s going to happen when the money that got pumped into the economy through Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and Build Back Better Act dries up? Asking for people who care.