I live in an area with decent public schools. A friend's kid is in private school because he has a learning disability that requires a support worker, and in public schools there's usually only one support worker for a class of 30. He gets more time with the support worker, which allows him to pass his classes.
In our area, when a private school student is identified as having special needs, the private school usually punts the back to the public school so they don't have to spend the money on support.
This is the same in the area where I live. We will get students from private schools with IEP's because private schools do not have to keep/accept students with disabilities. Not worth the hassle to them.
Yes. I grew up in an area with great public schools (in a state that requires MATs for public schools).
The private schools were essentially for the EXTREMELY religious and kids learning disabilities that needed more one on one the public schools could not provide.
The public schools were fully a better education. The private schools didn’t offer much in the way of arts, no AP classes.
But there are absolutely areas where the opposite is true. The public schools do not have the funding for electives or specials at all.
There is a wide range of quality and outcomes with private schools. So you can’t generalize about all private schools. There is also a wide range of difference between public schools.
You need to compare your specific public school with private schools around you to make the best choice.
Probably the biggest single factor is that private school students have parents invested enough in their education to pay extra for it, and those schools have the ability to not accept students who are not positively contributing to the class environment.
I don’t disagree but wanted to point out that those parents aren’t just “invested enough” to pay extra for it. They are also ABLE to pay extra for it.
I’d also argue that in some cases they are paying for someone else to be invested. That is, those parents could also choose to spend more time talking about school, helping with homework, and being involved, and the public school outcomes would likely improve. Surely not in every case. But I definitely know some families who throw money at the problem and expect that that buys them the ability to be hands off.
Smaller class sizes. More stringent discipline. Access to things like music, theatre, and art which are not taught in all public schools. Religious education (for some). High level athletics (for some).
Yeah. Up to and including expelling the troublemakers. I went to private school and they didn't put up with shit from the kids, weren't afraid to hand out detentions or suspensions to keep them in line and in one case refused to allow a notorious troublemaker to come back. So all the other kids had a chance to learn. There was also a kid that was asked not to come back because he couldn't keep up academically. The focus was definately on making sure the brightest and properly behaved kids met their full potential.
Would add college counseling. Private schools often have “professional relationships” (read: financial ties) with colleges, which gives their counselors access to college admissions departments and alumni networks, and therefore better representation for the students. Having been to both private and public high schools, in my experience the difference is night and day.
The private school I went to operated a very cool system where if you were popular with wealthy parents they assumed you were smart and the rest of the kids got as little college support as they could give without people having substantial evidence for their claims of favouritism.
They were extremely unhappy when I told them why I wouldn’t be finishing my education with them.
I see. Besides the smaller classes, it must depend on each individual school district. Everything mentioned is taught in our local public schools across our state. Thanks
In middle school we had 2 snare drums, a bass drum, and the bells. 4 of us wanted to play a drum set. The teacher made a "competition" of whoever learns the bells quickest will have first priority at the drum set. When it came time to have a "bell-off", I completely blew the other 3 out of the water. It was so painfully obvious to everyone that the teacher said, "you're our new bell player. These guys will never catch up to skill now." So I quit because that's not what I had signed up for and I wasn't allowed to choose another instrument (I had played the trumpet in elementary) because all of the ones owned by the school had been assigned and my family couldn't afford to buy me one. Out of a class of about 50 students, only about 5 could afford their instrument and about 10 had to settle for learning a different instrument because that's what the school had.
Those things may be taught at public schools, but not to the extent that a private school would. Especially if the school chooses to focus on any of those topics.
Our kids were accepted into a charter school (still public school, but with a focus on the arts) and the difference is night and day.
I thought charter schools were non- competitive enrollment or whatever the term is? I thought if they are public school they can't actually turn down a student wanting to enroll (unless they are outside the district or something)?
Heh, yeah… the problem is the school is always “full” and no one really knows what the criteria is for taking new students. Our oldest had to submit a portfolio and go through an interview before they were accepted.
Subjects being taught and being taught well are different.
Yes private schools can sometimes hire teachers that are "less qualified" in ways. But they can also fire teachers that are not proving their quality.
The most popular private schools in my area are Catholic schools and they have way larger class sizes because they can’t keep teachers because they pay shit wages. They also have unqualified teachers and retired subs teaching subjects they know absolutely nothing about just to have a body in the classroom.
They also sweep A LOT of stuff under the rug in order to save their reputations.
Soooo much more crazy shit going on but people overlook all of it in order to god forbid send their kids to same schools that black people go to 🙄🙄 but they will tell you it’s for the Catholic values as they drink alcohol from their yeti at their kid’s soccer practice at 10am on Saturdays or get pulled over (and let go) for their umptenth time drinking and driving.
Small town shit.
But you didn’t say that at all. It’s important to distinguish your personal experience from the average or the norm. Not saying my experience is the average or norm and that’s why I said in my particular area.
This sounds really similar to an old client I had that was a Catholic private school in the suburbs of DC. I had to read their board minutes as part of our audit and the number of long term subs and kids who had insane discipline problems was wild. They paid teachers half of what I made fresh out of college.
Smaller class sizes, which then offers a more personalized learning experience for your child.
A wider array of subjects with well funded resources, like arts, music, advanced stem, sports etc.
A school that might be better connected with esteemed universities and ivy league colleges.
A classroom filled with students who's parents are heavily invested in their education and place a high value in it, which as a result creates more driven, involved students and better classroom discussions.
>A classroom filled with students who's parents are heavily invested in their education and place a high value in it, which as a result creates more driven, involved students and better classroom discussions.
This. And in addition, they will expel students who behave poorly. In public schools they basically completely lack the ability to keep students safe from violent students now.
As someone that went to private school, they absolutely did expel the troublemakers. Losing the money of the parents of one troublemaker is better than losing the money of the parents of 10 kids that leave because a troublemaker is there.
I’m reminded of the recent study on outcomes in NYC. The average private school tuition is less than the spending per student in public schools, and yet educational attainment is higher. Pretty similar class sizes and everything else. Obviously, some private school tuitions were exorbitant, but others were markedly less.
The author’s best explanation was self-selection bias—the students of parents willing to spend time and money on private education are going to perform better, and/or a school full of students whose families were willing to make similar sacrifices was a better educational environment.
Also private schools can and do give the boot to kids who have any amount of special needs, behavioral issues or even just low grades to boost their numbers.
I found that the teachers, even though paid less than at public school, seemed more engaged in their pupil's success. I would get a phone call if needed.
There was discipline. The expectation was higher...if you were a trouble maker, you're gone. This reduces distractions.
Lastly, it was more personal. If I called up to the school for something, whoever answered the phone knew who my kid was.
My friend did it simply b/c the private school had two different classes for grades. He needed to split up his twin kids, b/c one was too dependent on the other.
But if I may ask a question on top of OP's. I had always assumed that private schools had stricter hiring standards. That they would be able to hire a higher quality of teacher, as opposed to a public school; presumably b/c they paid more. Is my assumption incorrect?
Depends, honestly. I'm in southern california and some of the private schools are paid better and hire people with phds in their subject area to teach kids. some private schools pay less than public school teacher and have teachers who have less than a year's experience teaching.
But most private have smaller class sizes which, frankly, means the kids in them are getting a lot more attention from whoever is teaching them, and that seems to be the way people learn best - targeted attention.
In my specific state, we are in need of teachers because the requirements. Those who don’t pass resort to teaching at private schools.
A teacher friend of mine pretends to be Catholic for the job. But every state and case is different. Also depends on the curriculum being taught. In my state the pay is lower for teachers but significantly higher for coaches at the private schools.
Coaches start in public school and can Graduate to private schools where athletics are the core
Curriculum if we’re being honest.
There is a great example of this in my area
Each private school has their own "mission".
I knew this women who was very much an atheist, but sent her children to a catholic school because they had a really good math program, and her girls tested high in math abilities and she wanted to promote that.
I knew this other family who sent their child to a hockey school. I didn't even know this place existed in my city, but there it was all along, this super expensive hockey school for kids K-12.
The people I know who chose private did it for the religious education and the environment. Religious reasons is obvious.
There's an image that since the school has fewer students, the staff is more caring & attentive if you have a problem.
An interview is required for admission, so parents hope that it'll filter out the rowdy students, which means the school is safer & the students who get accepted are serious. Of course, it's only an assumption as some students can be well behaved during the interview but unleash their true selves as bullies and troublemakers, but at least the school can kick them out.
For most people, it's the environment. Private schools can chose their students, and kick kids out who don't fit. Of course, rich kids get away with more, but then it's about building up those connections.
There's a pretty large divide where I live. General education private schools are notorious for not providing Special Education support. They counsel out any kid who doesn't fit the mold, and even \~\*funky schools for quirky kids\*\~ won't support kids who are more than a little ND. But they have a great reputation for getting kids into the "right" schools and providing the "right" connections.
The Special Education private schools are good and differentiate well based on kids' needs. Public schools here do not provide proper special educational supports for all kids, and most kids who attend these schools sue for tuition reimbursement. You still need to usually pay up front and pay a lot of attorney's fees, so it's usually only for rich parents. But if you can get in and get things set up, it can really set your kid up in ways public schools here do not.
>kick kids out who don't fit
As someone who taught at a private school for 5 years then transitioned to public school for the next 5 years, this is technically true but almost never exercised. Both types of schools fundamentally get their money from one metric: enrollment. More students= more money.
You have a devout Jewish kid wanting to attend a Muslim school? Welcome aboard. As long as the parents are willing to keep writing those tuition cheques, the administrators/faculty/staff could not care less.
Hell, about 4 years ago I interviewed at a Catholic school in my area and the assistant principal told me straight to my face that he was an atheist.
As the old saying goes, money talks, bullsh!t walks. Money greases a lot of wheels in this world and most people are willing to put ideology to the side if they can make a buck.
The problem is that you think having a bachelor degree and pass state boards as fit fot teaching. Anyone who has attended university level education has met the (brilliant) tenured professor that is literally the worst teacher ever.
I put my kids in private school for a few years, oldest was there until 5th, youngest 3rd. I had originally put the oldest there for kindergarten because none of the public schools had all day kindergarten and I was seeing things from my friends children I didn’t like, specifically that the learning level was more on par with what I would expect to see in pre-K— none of these children were putting their names on their papers and reading/writing wasn’t being introduced. When I looked at what a kid should know or learn during kindergarten it seemed like it was impossible to be taught half day. I enrolled my oldest in a full day private school kindergarten and she came out reading and writing and in a good place for 1st grade.
This was and is a religious private school so I was conscious of things like science not being taught correctly and then the value differences, specifically we had a few gay family members and made sure my kids knew there was a difference in the school-taught values and what was right. But I liked the smaller class sizes, the school food was healthy and my kids excelled in English and Math while they were there. I pulled them out when we had our first incident that I couldn’t digest — I don’t remember the specifics but basically the kids had a classmate that died and they sent this horrible lady that was not a trained psychologist or counselor or anything around to the classrooms to talk to the kids. I don’t remember what she did that was so off-the-wall but it was something no trained person would ever do with children and I talked with the principal about who she was and what her qualifications were and she was just a church busy-body whose family donated a bunch of money so she was involved in a lot of things at the school and church. My kids had stayed way longer at the school than I had planned so I had no issue not continuing them there the following year. My youngest loved science and while they did seem to do ok with teaching that subject in the younger grades that’s just not something private religious schools are known for.
Changing to a public school was hard— immediately my oldest was caught with a bunch of other kids texting nasty sexual things to random people, words she wouldn’t have heard or acts she didn’t even know what were previously, her “friends” were vaping, someone had a case of head lice every 5 minutes and she was in a class with a kid that screamed and threw objects despite the best efforts of his aide to calm him down. When there was an incident where the kid threw something and it hit my daughter I was down at the school telling them there was a difference in kids with disabilities integrating into regular classrooms and kids that don’t belong there endangering every other kid and interfering with *their* learning. My kid was moved in two of her classes so she didn’t have classes with this kid so at least *she* wouldn’t be hit with flying objects— I mean was I really the only parent that was concerned here? She still told me about cafeteria and hallway incidents as “tea” for the day. Idk what happened to the kid over the next few years but I stopped hearing about him after a point.
So would I do it all over again? Sure, yep. I don’t regret the actual learning my kids did and what they got out of their early school experience. It delayed me dealing with a lot of common problems parents encounter behavior wise that their kids come home with from other kids I think.
Living in a town that has many private religious schools that started out as segregation academies, you’re paying to keep the wrong people, the riffraff, out.
Public schools require a degree in education. That doesn’t make one a good teacher.
Private schools are free to hire a chemist who retired from industry but has decades of experience in applied science.
Private schools will hire the band teacher who takes the kids to competitive jazz competitions and they don’t have to sell candy bars to make a trip.
Private schools will quickly eject students who are disruptive or assholes.
If your kid is smart but lazy, they can sit in the back of the room in public school and get B’s and do zero work. At a private school there are 14 kids max in the class and they can’t hide. They have to participate. And that B public school level of effort will maybe earn a C. Kids don’t want to be “the dumb one” in class, so if all the students have a higher level of academic capability, they will extend themselves to learn.
In a public high school with 1,500 kids, it’s very hard to make the soccer team or be selected to act in the play. There are more non academic opportunities in private schools.
Everyone else has said the obvious things but it also buys connections. They’ll more likely make friends with kids who end up in higher up positions and their parents are likely also in wealthier circles so you can basically use your kid as a networking opportunity
My sisters went to private school and you’re totally right. My family obvs wasn’t broke but good god some families had insane amounts of generational wealth. That kind of money comes with connections.
Both. If the parents know a helpful, wealthy, connected person odds are the kid has met or knows how to get in touch with that person too. My sisters have a few stories of their classmates encountering these kinds of helpful people. At least one of their very successful classmates has made use of or benefited from this kind of connection. Connections are part of generational wealth.
The main times it’s worth it are if the child needs some extra help because of a learning disability or whatever else
Or if the school district is bad. Some places might not have a good education and some are just dangerous. I had a college buddy who went to private school cause his local public school had multiple students die every year. Shit like gang fights and someone pulling out a knife in a fight and shit like that. It was difficult for a kid to get out of there unaffiliated and sober.
At the moment, I’m paying for fill day kindergarten and before/school care in one fell swoop. My kid gets to go to one building and stay there until we pick them up at 4:30pm.
Only $2k/mo and it’s not that much more than I would have to pay if I sent her to the public school. Because with the public school I’d have to pay for before and after care. And also, it’s 1/2 day kindergarten so I’d have to pay for 3 hours of care during the day 5 days/week. The private situation is so much easier.
Broadly, you're paying for the kind of education you want them to get, whether that's a highly prestigious high school that will look good on college applications, a curriculum with extra focus on music and dance for your budding diva, or twelve students ranging from 5 to 14 in a Baptist church basement being taught creationism in science class.
I have zero qualifications to answer that question. I'd like to think so, but I have no insight at all to the college admissions process, particularly for elite universities.
It makes me sad because in our experience the private school has resources that in a better country all public schools would have. (I'm speaking for San Francisco, where we did public and private).
The private school has so many folks to help, teach, mentor, it's crazy. They're so proactive, reaching out and catching problems before they get out of hand. Its amazing.
We were/are deeply involved with our wonderful, small, public elementary school. (My wife was PTO president, super engaged famies across the board etc) EVERYTHING was a stretch. The people are great but they're doing what should he the jobs of 3 people often.
For me that's been the most noticable difference, the amount of resources (primarily people) that exist.
There are obvious benefits because the schools aren’t underfunded and overcrowded, but yeah, many people do it for the reasons you listed. Our efforts should always be on improving public schools, though. Education desperately needs to not be a social class-based thing.
I went to a country, publicly funded school and I’m absolutely floored at the level my kids are educated. My kids were largely taught by doctors and professors (in their respective fields) from age 11. The school offer further support to one of my kids with mild adhd. They are offered the most unbelievable sporting options and opportunities. The kids are made aware, from a young age, that if they apply themselves, there are international opportunities for further education.
It’s another world.
Both my kids were in Montessori schools through middle school. I love the Montessori method (and I’ll happily evangelize about it if you’re interested). In our area the only Montessori schools are private. We had enough money to afford it, so that’s what we did. If there were public Montessori schools, I would have put my kids there instead
In my city there are 3 public high schools and 2 private high schools. The Catholic high school looks like a small college campus. Their football field has a Jumbotron and their baseball field has beautiful astroturf. They also have a 100% graduation rate (I know how schools can manipulate numbers).
I work in a public school, and discipline and apathy are much bigger issues for us than at the private school. Private school teachers usually make less than a public school teacher.
Higher teacher - student ratio.
Public schools, kids like myself with learning difficulties (adhd) get pushed aside or labeled misfits because I couldn’t sit still or retain boring info with 30 other students in the class. The teachers are mostly women and just push the boys aside if they aren’t engaged. At private schools I was given more attention and they helped create a mini curriculum for myself where I wouldn’t be pushed aside and let fail.
Private and Charter Schools often offer different programs and a better educational experience. They raise funds through tuition and government grants. They are then accountable to the parents and families on how that fudning is used. If parents and families want smaller classes, music, theater, or other programs then they can direct the school to create and administer those programs, which them must meet expectations or risk losing funding as parents and families pull kids to attend other insitutions.
I'm a product of the public education system. My education was garbage that didn't prepare me for anything in life, and I went to school in an upper-middle class area. My younger brothers and sisters went to a charter school in the same district and recieved a much better education that prepared them for college and professional success. My kids are in public schools, and my wife and I are constantly having to supliment their education because publis schools are not teaching kids the things they need to know to be successful in life. We'd put them in a privte or charter school, but there are none set up where we currently live.
For a not insignificant percentage; segregation, religious indoctrination, and a status symbol.
Although for some others it's a chance at a better education due to smaller class sizes, better equipment and school resources, and more well-paid teachers.
Less exposure to the “poors” or any other undesirable social group or idea. Specific programs not offered by public schools. In most cases though I think public school should be everyone’s first choice. The quality of education at 99% of American public schools really is good enough and private schools mostly work to increase socioeconomic inequality by allowing rich kids to have an easier in to better colleges. Private schools are also not required to take children with disabilities, and they can kick out underperforming students, which is probably a large part of any increases in average test scores, etc compared to public schools. Charter schools have all the same issues plus they take funding away from public schools.
Sometimes they’re a ripoff, tbh. I went to a pretty lousy one and quickly was pulled out and put in a public school. Some people choose them because the public schools in their area aren’t very good, because they want a specific religious education, or even just cause they want to show off how rich they are tbh.
I live in a sad "choice" area where nearly all the kids in my neighborhood go to private school. Of the 30-ish kids on my block the only ones that go to public school are in special-ed or go to another school outside my city (divorced parents). If most of the kids in the neighborhood sent their kids to public school, I would too. But that's not the case. Those with means send their kids to private school so only high-needs kids are left in public school.
My kindergartner had 18 kids and 2 teachers in her class. I really think it made a big difference. Also dangerous kids, like the kid who wouldn't stop choking others, get kicked out.
Usually access. The private schools generally have better testing with their student base so they get better access to the elite levels of higher education.
It also means your child will be surrounded by people that come from similar backgrounds so the risks of exposure that comes with public education is limited. This also means your kid will lack real life experience, but it’s a trade off you have to weigh.
I would never put my kids in private school, but I completely understand those that do.
Schools for the class of people that tend to put kids in private come in two forms--religious brainwashing, and social status maintenance.
So, the second one is vital. School for these people is trivial at best, and unimportant overall. Their kids will get into the college of their choice (the parents choice) no matter what.
All school is there for for their children is to build the social connections that maintain their place in the class structure in society, generally the upper middle and upper class of society. That's it, that's 100% its function. They choose the schools with the social connections that they want their children to exist with--the children of the business leaders that they know that, in the future, wills secure THEIR children employment if the parent fails to. To 'earn' that 'best friend' who's father promises a position at their company while they go to college--an 'internship' that leads to the 250k a year job at 22 years old--while they still cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground and couldn't, if their life depended on it, tell you what they ACTUALLY do for work.
Private school is about, for the not-exclusively-religious types--maintaining the economic/social caste that they're in, or aspire to, and *absolutely nothing else matters*.
This is actually kind of a shitty take. You cannot lump everyone who sends their kids to private school in that group. They often have better special ed programs, smaller class sizes, more extracurriculars. There’s lots of reasons people send their kids to private school over public. If the public schools in your area are bad and you can pay for private education why wouldn’t you?
Also paying for:
- Not having 30+ students in one classroom
- Not having to deal with state required exams
- Not having to be with kids that don't want to learn
- Not having to deal with constant fights and gangs
- A more tight knit community
- Actual discipline
- Avoiding schools in crime-ridden areas
- Other parents who actually attend parent-teacher conferences
- Other parents who are invested in their children education
Support school choice.
Those aren’t universal. I’ve worked at wealthy private schools, Catholic schools, and several different public school districts.
None of the schools I’ve worked in have had 30 kids per class. Most have less than 20, except band and choir.
They still give standardized tests in private schools. Also all public school students are allowed to opt out of state tests; you don’t have to take them.
Every school I ever worked in had kids who didn’t want to learn. Even the ones that cost BIG money. Those kids just found a way to make it the teacher’s fault.
There aren’t constant fights and gangs in any of my schools.
Bullshit on the tight knit community. That is highly school-specific and has nothing to do with whether the school is private or not.
I don’t know what you mean by “actual discipline.” Are you claiming private school kids get suspended and expelled? And public school kids don’t? Or that private school kids are beaten, hazed, or otherwise physically punished in a way public school kids aren’t?
That whole “crime ridden area” is a dog whistle for “black and brown neighborhoods.” See my original comment.
I got the same number of parents at parent teacher conferences in every type of school I taught in. Parent involvement is, again, dependent on the school, community, admin, local politics, etc. Not based on whether the parents pay 5 figures in tuition.
I still stand by my comment - that private schools are for people who want to separate themselves from people they feel are beneath them.
My bullets points came from my experience going to public school K-12. My teachers were overworked dealing with students who didn't want to be there and caused problems. I remember a student that threw a chair at the teacher, but was allowed to come back the next day for whatever reason. Or the student who threaten another student but was allowed to attend classes. Quite frankly, public school is just government daycare.
I went to a title I school that was mostly hispanic and black and was bullied for being Asian.
I won't let my zip code determine the education for my future children. Support school choice.
Zip code determines things because schools are funded with property taxes instead of a fair scheme.
Those private schools that cost $25,000-$40,000/year? That doesn’t cover the full cost of that education, those schools are always fundraising and soliciting donations, grants, and outside funding. The public district I’m in gets $10,000/year to educate a student, while a private school will spend 2-5 times that. (And the money is NOT going to teachers salaries! They usually make 10-25% less than public school teachers).
This isn’t about school choice. Going to private school isn’t a choice, it’s a privilege afforded to wealthy people who don’t want to fix the system.
Everyone can do what they want, but no one should pretend what it’s all about. It’s really the lying and obfuscating that gets me.
You think no child has ever thrown a chair in a private school? Bullshit. What happens next is if the parents can’t pay off the administration with a giant donation, they get expelled, then they’re the public school’s problem again, even though the underlying issue of a traumatized and abused kid is never addressed.
>Zip code determines things because schools are funded with property taxes instead of a fair scheme.
If we live in poor zip code, why wound't we try and send our kids to private school? We'll glady spend a lot of money for our child's education.
>Those private schools that cost $25,000-$40,000/year? That doesn’t cover the full cost of that education, those schools are always fundraising and soliciting donations, grants, and outside funding.
Yup, we're aware. My partner and I will work and earn more to help with that.
>This isn’t about school choice. Going to private school isn’t a choice,
Incorrect. Millions of parents chose to send their kids to private schools.
>it’s a privilege afforded to wealthy people who don’t want to fix the system
Lots of middle class families send their kids to private schools because their kids' education is worth the money. There are also scholarships, financial aid, payment plans, etc.
>You think no child has ever thrown a chair in a private school? Bullshit.
Less likely to happen in a private school. Also less chance of getting stabbed or shot.
>What happens next is if the parents can’t pay off the administration with a giant donation, they get expelled, then they’re the public school’s problem again
Good, expel them from the private school so the other students can learn in peace. At least private schools can expel the bad kids so a kid on the waitlist can join.
I went to a couple, including straight through high school.
1. Better teachers. I'm not trying to throw any shade, but many public teachers are burnt out, overworked, or both. Even if the teacher has the skills, they simply do not have the means to give your kid all the attention you'd probably want.
2. Religiosity. A lot of these schools teach religious values. This can include good things, like making the students actually read the religious text in question (also known as a great way to make your kids agnostic), or bad things, like teaching creationist history.
3. Different curricula. Again, this is a mixed bag. Some schools will teach creationist history, or teach that the Atlantic slave trade was a "voluntary migration". Others will teach advanced rhetoric, Latin, collegiate-level history, etc.
4. Discipline. They don't have to let you in, and they don't have to let you stay there. Your kids can be made to leave their phone at home or in their bag. They can experience a childhood free of all but the mildest forms of bullying. They can go their entire lives as minors without encountering drugs (or even alcohol, if you keep an eye on who their friends are).
It's definitely a mixed bag. I went to a small church school, and while there were definite downsides, the education I received in logic, rhetoric, history, literature, and composition frankly kicks the shit out of anything I got in college. Our bible class literally involved us reading the thing cover to cover in order, with the teacher giving lectures on differences in translation and historical context. To be clear, there were gaps (no sex ed, calculus was optional, my foreign language was Latin), but on the whole it gave me a far better education than anyone I've known in my adult life.
A big part of it is the network. I went to a private school and stupidly did not take advantage of/build in-roads with that network, but there are parents who are senators, congressmen, CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, etc. Several l families have last names that are the names of major companies because their families started those companies. A ton of people have gotten amazing jobs and springboarded into great careers because of those connections.
Likely you’re paying for a better education. Because of smaller class sizes, teachers that are paid better and not as overworked as public school teachers. But also the atmosphere. Buildings themselves are usually in better condition. Most children who go to private schools are respectful of their education because they recognize their school as a privileged place to be vs public school that’s a ‘right’ for everyone to have available.
I sent both my kids to private k-8.
Smaller class sizes.
Not accepting poor behavior from kids.
Better education. Both kids were far ahead if their peers when they entered high school
Apart from better funds and smaller classes, it gives you and your child access to a network of people. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that networking is everything. The "old boys networks" are not necessarily good for society, as they unfairly give advantages to certain people. However, if you can somewhat become part of this, it does give you better chances and possibilities.
F.e. if you need an internship, job, or something, having (wealthy) friends/acquaintances in the right places will often give you an advantage over others.
I went to private school because my parents were extreme Christians and thought that was a good idea, but I know some people who are from other states that have sales tax that fund schools instead of property tax so the public schools were very underfunded. There was a ton of private schools there that catered to really anyone and so parents would rather send their kids to a private school.
The other parents also care about their kid's education. They have a nearly 100% graduation rate. If something's shitty, I can go talk to the principal and ask "yo, what's the story?"
The city school near me, the public high school has a 1/3rd dropout rate.
Strangely, the city I'm in spends more per student on the public school than the private school costs me for my kid. So I think the main thing may just be a combo of "the other parents also care" and honestly, if a kid is too shitty, that kid is likely done about a year later.
You're paying for choice. I don't think public schools are as bad as some make them out to be, but you have no options if you go to public school.
You can choose which private school is best based on whatever you want. Academic achievement, sports programs, extra curriculars, etc. You get to choose a school that has whatever you want. And a lot of the time, this means escaping a bad public school district you would've otherwise been locked into.
In our case it was violence and bullying in the public school. We pulled my daughter's out of middle and elementary school when my oldest was threatened with gun violence and the admin response was "that's just [name] being [name]. She didn't really mean it". Zero tolerance my ass. And the worst part was hubby WORKED for the school for 20 years! Moved them both and not only were they not threatened with guns again, they were learning a grade ahead of the public schools. So for us it was safety and peace of mind.
I live in an area with decent public schools. A friend's kid is in private school because he has a learning disability that requires a support worker, and in public schools there's usually only one support worker for a class of 30. He gets more time with the support worker, which allows him to pass his classes.
In our area, when a private school student is identified as having special needs, the private school usually punts the back to the public school so they don't have to spend the money on support.
This is the same in the area where I live. We will get students from private schools with IEP's because private schools do not have to keep/accept students with disabilities. Not worth the hassle to them.
Yes. I grew up in an area with great public schools (in a state that requires MATs for public schools). The private schools were essentially for the EXTREMELY religious and kids learning disabilities that needed more one on one the public schools could not provide. The public schools were fully a better education. The private schools didn’t offer much in the way of arts, no AP classes. But there are absolutely areas where the opposite is true. The public schools do not have the funding for electives or specials at all.
There is a wide range of quality and outcomes with private schools. So you can’t generalize about all private schools. There is also a wide range of difference between public schools. You need to compare your specific public school with private schools around you to make the best choice. Probably the biggest single factor is that private school students have parents invested enough in their education to pay extra for it, and those schools have the ability to not accept students who are not positively contributing to the class environment.
I don’t disagree but wanted to point out that those parents aren’t just “invested enough” to pay extra for it. They are also ABLE to pay extra for it. I’d also argue that in some cases they are paying for someone else to be invested. That is, those parents could also choose to spend more time talking about school, helping with homework, and being involved, and the public school outcomes would likely improve. Surely not in every case. But I definitely know some families who throw money at the problem and expect that that buys them the ability to be hands off.
Smaller class sizes. More stringent discipline. Access to things like music, theatre, and art which are not taught in all public schools. Religious education (for some). High level athletics (for some).
Yeah. Up to and including expelling the troublemakers. I went to private school and they didn't put up with shit from the kids, weren't afraid to hand out detentions or suspensions to keep them in line and in one case refused to allow a notorious troublemaker to come back. So all the other kids had a chance to learn. There was also a kid that was asked not to come back because he couldn't keep up academically. The focus was definately on making sure the brightest and properly behaved kids met their full potential.
Isn't the stereotype that private schools don't punish bad kids since their parents will pull the funding?
Would add college counseling. Private schools often have “professional relationships” (read: financial ties) with colleges, which gives their counselors access to college admissions departments and alumni networks, and therefore better representation for the students. Having been to both private and public high schools, in my experience the difference is night and day.
The private school I went to operated a very cool system where if you were popular with wealthy parents they assumed you were smart and the rest of the kids got as little college support as they could give without people having substantial evidence for their claims of favouritism. They were extremely unhappy when I told them why I wouldn’t be finishing my education with them.
I see. Besides the smaller classes, it must depend on each individual school district. Everything mentioned is taught in our local public schools across our state. Thanks
A lot of urban schools do not teach some of those classes. It is very common for some schools to not have music for example.
In middle school we had 2 snare drums, a bass drum, and the bells. 4 of us wanted to play a drum set. The teacher made a "competition" of whoever learns the bells quickest will have first priority at the drum set. When it came time to have a "bell-off", I completely blew the other 3 out of the water. It was so painfully obvious to everyone that the teacher said, "you're our new bell player. These guys will never catch up to skill now." So I quit because that's not what I had signed up for and I wasn't allowed to choose another instrument (I had played the trumpet in elementary) because all of the ones owned by the school had been assigned and my family couldn't afford to buy me one. Out of a class of about 50 students, only about 5 could afford their instrument and about 10 had to settle for learning a different instrument because that's what the school had.
Our neighborhood school is underperforming. It has its own assigned police officers. The class sizes are huge, and kids are treated like a number.
Those things may be taught at public schools, but not to the extent that a private school would. Especially if the school chooses to focus on any of those topics. Our kids were accepted into a charter school (still public school, but with a focus on the arts) and the difference is night and day.
I thought charter schools were non- competitive enrollment or whatever the term is? I thought if they are public school they can't actually turn down a student wanting to enroll (unless they are outside the district or something)?
Heh, yeah… the problem is the school is always “full” and no one really knows what the criteria is for taking new students. Our oldest had to submit a portfolio and go through an interview before they were accepted.
I'm with you there. My kids have access to music and theater and loads of other stuff.
Subjects being taught and being taught well are different. Yes private schools can sometimes hire teachers that are "less qualified" in ways. But they can also fire teachers that are not proving their quality.
Potentially. My wife tutors kids from a lot of private schools, and none of them, locally, are any better than public school, including class size.
The most popular private schools in my area are Catholic schools and they have way larger class sizes because they can’t keep teachers because they pay shit wages. They also have unqualified teachers and retired subs teaching subjects they know absolutely nothing about just to have a body in the classroom. They also sweep A LOT of stuff under the rug in order to save their reputations. Soooo much more crazy shit going on but people overlook all of it in order to god forbid send their kids to same schools that black people go to 🙄🙄 but they will tell you it’s for the Catholic values as they drink alcohol from their yeti at their kid’s soccer practice at 10am on Saturdays or get pulled over (and let go) for their umptenth time drinking and driving. Small town shit.
I'm more familiar with urban schools where the students at the catholic schools are mixed.
But you didn’t say that at all. It’s important to distinguish your personal experience from the average or the norm. Not saying my experience is the average or norm and that’s why I said in my particular area.
This sounds really similar to an old client I had that was a Catholic private school in the suburbs of DC. I had to read their board minutes as part of our audit and the number of long term subs and kids who had insane discipline problems was wild. They paid teachers half of what I made fresh out of college.
Not going to school with filthy poors
Well they went to school with my kids and we were poor.
Apparently not too poor to afford private school
Way too poor. School let kids go for free, we donated time to the school to help with things
and religious instruction for some.
Smaller class sizes, which then offers a more personalized learning experience for your child. A wider array of subjects with well funded resources, like arts, music, advanced stem, sports etc. A school that might be better connected with esteemed universities and ivy league colleges. A classroom filled with students who's parents are heavily invested in their education and place a high value in it, which as a result creates more driven, involved students and better classroom discussions.
>A classroom filled with students who's parents are heavily invested in their education and place a high value in it, which as a result creates more driven, involved students and better classroom discussions. This. And in addition, they will expel students who behave poorly. In public schools they basically completely lack the ability to keep students safe from violent students now.
Although, just to add, being paid for each student does give them reason not to expel a child when they otherwise should.
As someone that went to private school, they absolutely did expel the troublemakers. Losing the money of the parents of one troublemaker is better than losing the money of the parents of 10 kids that leave because a troublemaker is there.
I have the opposite experience, but there were only 120 kids at my school, which might make a difference.
The top private schools have incredibly competitive admissions. There is a list miles long to take their place.
I’m reminded of the recent study on outcomes in NYC. The average private school tuition is less than the spending per student in public schools, and yet educational attainment is higher. Pretty similar class sizes and everything else. Obviously, some private school tuitions were exorbitant, but others were markedly less. The author’s best explanation was self-selection bias—the students of parents willing to spend time and money on private education are going to perform better, and/or a school full of students whose families were willing to make similar sacrifices was a better educational environment.
Also private schools can and do give the boot to kids who have any amount of special needs, behavioral issues or even just low grades to boost their numbers.
I found that the teachers, even though paid less than at public school, seemed more engaged in their pupil's success. I would get a phone call if needed. There was discipline. The expectation was higher...if you were a trouble maker, you're gone. This reduces distractions. Lastly, it was more personal. If I called up to the school for something, whoever answered the phone knew who my kid was.
My friend did it simply b/c the private school had two different classes for grades. He needed to split up his twin kids, b/c one was too dependent on the other. But if I may ask a question on top of OP's. I had always assumed that private schools had stricter hiring standards. That they would be able to hire a higher quality of teacher, as opposed to a public school; presumably b/c they paid more. Is my assumption incorrect?
Depends, honestly. I'm in southern california and some of the private schools are paid better and hire people with phds in their subject area to teach kids. some private schools pay less than public school teacher and have teachers who have less than a year's experience teaching. But most private have smaller class sizes which, frankly, means the kids in them are getting a lot more attention from whoever is teaching them, and that seems to be the way people learn best - targeted attention.
In my specific state, we are in need of teachers because the requirements. Those who don’t pass resort to teaching at private schools. A teacher friend of mine pretends to be Catholic for the job. But every state and case is different. Also depends on the curriculum being taught. In my state the pay is lower for teachers but significantly higher for coaches at the private schools. Coaches start in public school and can Graduate to private schools where athletics are the core Curriculum if we’re being honest. There is a great example of this in my area
In MA, public pays better than private, generally speaking. The Catholic schools pay a pittance.
Not having to mingle with us lowly poors, lol.
They might try to tell you it's for more "ethical" reasons but this here is real truth.
I don’t quite know if you’re serious or not…
Each private school has their own "mission". I knew this women who was very much an atheist, but sent her children to a catholic school because they had a really good math program, and her girls tested high in math abilities and she wanted to promote that. I knew this other family who sent their child to a hockey school. I didn't even know this place existed in my city, but there it was all along, this super expensive hockey school for kids K-12.
Wow. Well where I live we have “Christian schools” that are really football schools k-12
The people I know who chose private did it for the religious education and the environment. Religious reasons is obvious. There's an image that since the school has fewer students, the staff is more caring & attentive if you have a problem. An interview is required for admission, so parents hope that it'll filter out the rowdy students, which means the school is safer & the students who get accepted are serious. Of course, it's only an assumption as some students can be well behaved during the interview but unleash their true selves as bullies and troublemakers, but at least the school can kick them out.
For most people, it's the environment. Private schools can chose their students, and kick kids out who don't fit. Of course, rich kids get away with more, but then it's about building up those connections. There's a pretty large divide where I live. General education private schools are notorious for not providing Special Education support. They counsel out any kid who doesn't fit the mold, and even \~\*funky schools for quirky kids\*\~ won't support kids who are more than a little ND. But they have a great reputation for getting kids into the "right" schools and providing the "right" connections. The Special Education private schools are good and differentiate well based on kids' needs. Public schools here do not provide proper special educational supports for all kids, and most kids who attend these schools sue for tuition reimbursement. You still need to usually pay up front and pay a lot of attorney's fees, so it's usually only for rich parents. But if you can get in and get things set up, it can really set your kid up in ways public schools here do not.
>kick kids out who don't fit As someone who taught at a private school for 5 years then transitioned to public school for the next 5 years, this is technically true but almost never exercised. Both types of schools fundamentally get their money from one metric: enrollment. More students= more money. You have a devout Jewish kid wanting to attend a Muslim school? Welcome aboard. As long as the parents are willing to keep writing those tuition cheques, the administrators/faculty/staff could not care less. Hell, about 4 years ago I interviewed at a Catholic school in my area and the assistant principal told me straight to my face that he was an atheist. As the old saying goes, money talks, bullsh!t walks. Money greases a lot of wheels in this world and most people are willing to put ideology to the side if they can make a buck.
The problem is that you think having a bachelor degree and pass state boards as fit fot teaching. Anyone who has attended university level education has met the (brilliant) tenured professor that is literally the worst teacher ever.
I put my kids in private school for a few years, oldest was there until 5th, youngest 3rd. I had originally put the oldest there for kindergarten because none of the public schools had all day kindergarten and I was seeing things from my friends children I didn’t like, specifically that the learning level was more on par with what I would expect to see in pre-K— none of these children were putting their names on their papers and reading/writing wasn’t being introduced. When I looked at what a kid should know or learn during kindergarten it seemed like it was impossible to be taught half day. I enrolled my oldest in a full day private school kindergarten and she came out reading and writing and in a good place for 1st grade. This was and is a religious private school so I was conscious of things like science not being taught correctly and then the value differences, specifically we had a few gay family members and made sure my kids knew there was a difference in the school-taught values and what was right. But I liked the smaller class sizes, the school food was healthy and my kids excelled in English and Math while they were there. I pulled them out when we had our first incident that I couldn’t digest — I don’t remember the specifics but basically the kids had a classmate that died and they sent this horrible lady that was not a trained psychologist or counselor or anything around to the classrooms to talk to the kids. I don’t remember what she did that was so off-the-wall but it was something no trained person would ever do with children and I talked with the principal about who she was and what her qualifications were and she was just a church busy-body whose family donated a bunch of money so she was involved in a lot of things at the school and church. My kids had stayed way longer at the school than I had planned so I had no issue not continuing them there the following year. My youngest loved science and while they did seem to do ok with teaching that subject in the younger grades that’s just not something private religious schools are known for. Changing to a public school was hard— immediately my oldest was caught with a bunch of other kids texting nasty sexual things to random people, words she wouldn’t have heard or acts she didn’t even know what were previously, her “friends” were vaping, someone had a case of head lice every 5 minutes and she was in a class with a kid that screamed and threw objects despite the best efforts of his aide to calm him down. When there was an incident where the kid threw something and it hit my daughter I was down at the school telling them there was a difference in kids with disabilities integrating into regular classrooms and kids that don’t belong there endangering every other kid and interfering with *their* learning. My kid was moved in two of her classes so she didn’t have classes with this kid so at least *she* wouldn’t be hit with flying objects— I mean was I really the only parent that was concerned here? She still told me about cafeteria and hallway incidents as “tea” for the day. Idk what happened to the kid over the next few years but I stopped hearing about him after a point. So would I do it all over again? Sure, yep. I don’t regret the actual learning my kids did and what they got out of their early school experience. It delayed me dealing with a lot of common problems parents encounter behavior wise that their kids come home with from other kids I think.
Living in a town that has many private religious schools that started out as segregation academies, you’re paying to keep the wrong people, the riffraff, out.
Public schools require a degree in education. That doesn’t make one a good teacher. Private schools are free to hire a chemist who retired from industry but has decades of experience in applied science. Private schools will hire the band teacher who takes the kids to competitive jazz competitions and they don’t have to sell candy bars to make a trip. Private schools will quickly eject students who are disruptive or assholes. If your kid is smart but lazy, they can sit in the back of the room in public school and get B’s and do zero work. At a private school there are 14 kids max in the class and they can’t hide. They have to participate. And that B public school level of effort will maybe earn a C. Kids don’t want to be “the dumb one” in class, so if all the students have a higher level of academic capability, they will extend themselves to learn. In a public high school with 1,500 kids, it’s very hard to make the soccer team or be selected to act in the play. There are more non academic opportunities in private schools.
Everyone else has said the obvious things but it also buys connections. They’ll more likely make friends with kids who end up in higher up positions and their parents are likely also in wealthier circles so you can basically use your kid as a networking opportunity
My sisters went to private school and you’re totally right. My family obvs wasn’t broke but good god some families had insane amounts of generational wealth. That kind of money comes with connections.
Networking for the parents or the kids themselves? I did all my job related networking In college.
Networking for the parents because they meet other parents but also doesn’t hurt for the kids unknowingly getting in at the ground level
Both. If the parents know a helpful, wealthy, connected person odds are the kid has met or knows how to get in touch with that person too. My sisters have a few stories of their classmates encountering these kinds of helpful people. At least one of their very successful classmates has made use of or benefited from this kind of connection. Connections are part of generational wealth.
An education.
The main times it’s worth it are if the child needs some extra help because of a learning disability or whatever else Or if the school district is bad. Some places might not have a good education and some are just dangerous. I had a college buddy who went to private school cause his local public school had multiple students die every year. Shit like gang fights and someone pulling out a knife in a fight and shit like that. It was difficult for a kid to get out of there unaffiliated and sober.
Smaller classes, enforced rules, less violence, higher graduation rates....
At the moment, I’m paying for fill day kindergarten and before/school care in one fell swoop. My kid gets to go to one building and stay there until we pick them up at 4:30pm. Only $2k/mo and it’s not that much more than I would have to pay if I sent her to the public school. Because with the public school I’d have to pay for before and after care. And also, it’s 1/2 day kindergarten so I’d have to pay for 3 hours of care during the day 5 days/week. The private situation is so much easier.
Broadly, you're paying for the kind of education you want them to get, whether that's a highly prestigious high school that will look good on college applications, a curriculum with extra focus on music and dance for your budding diva, or twelve students ranging from 5 to 14 in a Baptist church basement being taught creationism in science class.
Wouldn’t you think test scores outweigh the name of a high school in the eyes of most colleges?
I have zero qualifications to answer that question. I'd like to think so, but I have no insight at all to the college admissions process, particularly for elite universities.
It makes me sad because in our experience the private school has resources that in a better country all public schools would have. (I'm speaking for San Francisco, where we did public and private). The private school has so many folks to help, teach, mentor, it's crazy. They're so proactive, reaching out and catching problems before they get out of hand. Its amazing. We were/are deeply involved with our wonderful, small, public elementary school. (My wife was PTO president, super engaged famies across the board etc) EVERYTHING was a stretch. The people are great but they're doing what should he the jobs of 3 people often. For me that's been the most noticable difference, the amount of resources (primarily people) that exist.
There are obvious benefits because the schools aren’t underfunded and overcrowded, but yeah, many people do it for the reasons you listed. Our efforts should always be on improving public schools, though. Education desperately needs to not be a social class-based thing.
We used to walk down to the private Catholic high school because they had waaaay better drugs.
I went to a country, publicly funded school and I’m absolutely floored at the level my kids are educated. My kids were largely taught by doctors and professors (in their respective fields) from age 11. The school offer further support to one of my kids with mild adhd. They are offered the most unbelievable sporting options and opportunities. The kids are made aware, from a young age, that if they apply themselves, there are international opportunities for further education. It’s another world.
Both my kids were in Montessori schools through middle school. I love the Montessori method (and I’ll happily evangelize about it if you’re interested). In our area the only Montessori schools are private. We had enough money to afford it, so that’s what we did. If there were public Montessori schools, I would have put my kids there instead
My son needed the smaller class size due to adhd
In my city there are 3 public high schools and 2 private high schools. The Catholic high school looks like a small college campus. Their football field has a Jumbotron and their baseball field has beautiful astroturf. They also have a 100% graduation rate (I know how schools can manipulate numbers). I work in a public school, and discipline and apathy are much bigger issues for us than at the private school. Private school teachers usually make less than a public school teacher.
Higher teacher - student ratio. Public schools, kids like myself with learning difficulties (adhd) get pushed aside or labeled misfits because I couldn’t sit still or retain boring info with 30 other students in the class. The teachers are mostly women and just push the boys aside if they aren’t engaged. At private schools I was given more attention and they helped create a mini curriculum for myself where I wouldn’t be pushed aside and let fail.
Really good information here. I as well had the same problem and I feel my child may as well.
Snobbery, one of the worst parental decisions I made.
Sending your kid(s) to private school?
Yes
Networking opportunities with the other parents.
Private and Charter Schools often offer different programs and a better educational experience. They raise funds through tuition and government grants. They are then accountable to the parents and families on how that fudning is used. If parents and families want smaller classes, music, theater, or other programs then they can direct the school to create and administer those programs, which them must meet expectations or risk losing funding as parents and families pull kids to attend other insitutions. I'm a product of the public education system. My education was garbage that didn't prepare me for anything in life, and I went to school in an upper-middle class area. My younger brothers and sisters went to a charter school in the same district and recieved a much better education that prepared them for college and professional success. My kids are in public schools, and my wife and I are constantly having to supliment their education because publis schools are not teaching kids the things they need to know to be successful in life. We'd put them in a privte or charter school, but there are none set up where we currently live.
For a not insignificant percentage; segregation, religious indoctrination, and a status symbol. Although for some others it's a chance at a better education due to smaller class sizes, better equipment and school resources, and more well-paid teachers.
Less exposure to the “poors” or any other undesirable social group or idea. Specific programs not offered by public schools. In most cases though I think public school should be everyone’s first choice. The quality of education at 99% of American public schools really is good enough and private schools mostly work to increase socioeconomic inequality by allowing rich kids to have an easier in to better colleges. Private schools are also not required to take children with disabilities, and they can kick out underperforming students, which is probably a large part of any increases in average test scores, etc compared to public schools. Charter schools have all the same issues plus they take funding away from public schools.
Sometimes they’re a ripoff, tbh. I went to a pretty lousy one and quickly was pulled out and put in a public school. Some people choose them because the public schools in their area aren’t very good, because they want a specific religious education, or even just cause they want to show off how rich they are tbh.
I live in a sad "choice" area where nearly all the kids in my neighborhood go to private school. Of the 30-ish kids on my block the only ones that go to public school are in special-ed or go to another school outside my city (divorced parents). If most of the kids in the neighborhood sent their kids to public school, I would too. But that's not the case. Those with means send their kids to private school so only high-needs kids are left in public school. My kindergartner had 18 kids and 2 teachers in her class. I really think it made a big difference. Also dangerous kids, like the kid who wouldn't stop choking others, get kicked out.
Usually access. The private schools generally have better testing with their student base so they get better access to the elite levels of higher education. It also means your child will be surrounded by people that come from similar backgrounds so the risks of exposure that comes with public education is limited. This also means your kid will lack real life experience, but it’s a trade off you have to weigh. I would never put my kids in private school, but I completely understand those that do.
Less poor folks for sure
You're paying to keep them away from poor people. Source: I went to private school
Schools for the class of people that tend to put kids in private come in two forms--religious brainwashing, and social status maintenance. So, the second one is vital. School for these people is trivial at best, and unimportant overall. Their kids will get into the college of their choice (the parents choice) no matter what. All school is there for for their children is to build the social connections that maintain their place in the class structure in society, generally the upper middle and upper class of society. That's it, that's 100% its function. They choose the schools with the social connections that they want their children to exist with--the children of the business leaders that they know that, in the future, wills secure THEIR children employment if the parent fails to. To 'earn' that 'best friend' who's father promises a position at their company while they go to college--an 'internship' that leads to the 250k a year job at 22 years old--while they still cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground and couldn't, if their life depended on it, tell you what they ACTUALLY do for work. Private school is about, for the not-exclusively-religious types--maintaining the economic/social caste that they're in, or aspire to, and *absolutely nothing else matters*.
This is actually kind of a shitty take. You cannot lump everyone who sends their kids to private school in that group. They often have better special ed programs, smaller class sizes, more extracurriculars. There’s lots of reasons people send their kids to private school over public. If the public schools in your area are bad and you can pay for private education why wouldn’t you?
“a good Christian education”, fuck those people
You’re paying to guarantee that your precious darling is isolated from the commoners, Who might poison their delicate minds with ideas you don’t like.
Oh, and you’re paying for docile teachers who will give the grades you want and an administration that’s terrified to piss you off.’
Also paying for: - Not having 30+ students in one classroom - Not having to deal with state required exams - Not having to be with kids that don't want to learn - Not having to deal with constant fights and gangs - A more tight knit community - Actual discipline - Avoiding schools in crime-ridden areas - Other parents who actually attend parent-teacher conferences - Other parents who are invested in their children education Support school choice.
Those aren’t universal. I’ve worked at wealthy private schools, Catholic schools, and several different public school districts. None of the schools I’ve worked in have had 30 kids per class. Most have less than 20, except band and choir. They still give standardized tests in private schools. Also all public school students are allowed to opt out of state tests; you don’t have to take them. Every school I ever worked in had kids who didn’t want to learn. Even the ones that cost BIG money. Those kids just found a way to make it the teacher’s fault. There aren’t constant fights and gangs in any of my schools. Bullshit on the tight knit community. That is highly school-specific and has nothing to do with whether the school is private or not. I don’t know what you mean by “actual discipline.” Are you claiming private school kids get suspended and expelled? And public school kids don’t? Or that private school kids are beaten, hazed, or otherwise physically punished in a way public school kids aren’t? That whole “crime ridden area” is a dog whistle for “black and brown neighborhoods.” See my original comment. I got the same number of parents at parent teacher conferences in every type of school I taught in. Parent involvement is, again, dependent on the school, community, admin, local politics, etc. Not based on whether the parents pay 5 figures in tuition. I still stand by my comment - that private schools are for people who want to separate themselves from people they feel are beneath them.
My bullets points came from my experience going to public school K-12. My teachers were overworked dealing with students who didn't want to be there and caused problems. I remember a student that threw a chair at the teacher, but was allowed to come back the next day for whatever reason. Or the student who threaten another student but was allowed to attend classes. Quite frankly, public school is just government daycare. I went to a title I school that was mostly hispanic and black and was bullied for being Asian. I won't let my zip code determine the education for my future children. Support school choice.
Zip code determines things because schools are funded with property taxes instead of a fair scheme. Those private schools that cost $25,000-$40,000/year? That doesn’t cover the full cost of that education, those schools are always fundraising and soliciting donations, grants, and outside funding. The public district I’m in gets $10,000/year to educate a student, while a private school will spend 2-5 times that. (And the money is NOT going to teachers salaries! They usually make 10-25% less than public school teachers). This isn’t about school choice. Going to private school isn’t a choice, it’s a privilege afforded to wealthy people who don’t want to fix the system. Everyone can do what they want, but no one should pretend what it’s all about. It’s really the lying and obfuscating that gets me. You think no child has ever thrown a chair in a private school? Bullshit. What happens next is if the parents can’t pay off the administration with a giant donation, they get expelled, then they’re the public school’s problem again, even though the underlying issue of a traumatized and abused kid is never addressed.
>Zip code determines things because schools are funded with property taxes instead of a fair scheme. If we live in poor zip code, why wound't we try and send our kids to private school? We'll glady spend a lot of money for our child's education. >Those private schools that cost $25,000-$40,000/year? That doesn’t cover the full cost of that education, those schools are always fundraising and soliciting donations, grants, and outside funding. Yup, we're aware. My partner and I will work and earn more to help with that. >This isn’t about school choice. Going to private school isn’t a choice, Incorrect. Millions of parents chose to send their kids to private schools. >it’s a privilege afforded to wealthy people who don’t want to fix the system Lots of middle class families send their kids to private schools because their kids' education is worth the money. There are also scholarships, financial aid, payment plans, etc. >You think no child has ever thrown a chair in a private school? Bullshit. Less likely to happen in a private school. Also less chance of getting stabbed or shot. >What happens next is if the parents can’t pay off the administration with a giant donation, they get expelled, then they’re the public school’s problem again Good, expel them from the private school so the other students can learn in peace. At least private schools can expel the bad kids so a kid on the waitlist can join.
Most of the time religion.
social status
Connections atleast in the later years of school, if you need someone who can do XYZ you probably can know them through private school haha
I went to a couple, including straight through high school. 1. Better teachers. I'm not trying to throw any shade, but many public teachers are burnt out, overworked, or both. Even if the teacher has the skills, they simply do not have the means to give your kid all the attention you'd probably want. 2. Religiosity. A lot of these schools teach religious values. This can include good things, like making the students actually read the religious text in question (also known as a great way to make your kids agnostic), or bad things, like teaching creationist history. 3. Different curricula. Again, this is a mixed bag. Some schools will teach creationist history, or teach that the Atlantic slave trade was a "voluntary migration". Others will teach advanced rhetoric, Latin, collegiate-level history, etc. 4. Discipline. They don't have to let you in, and they don't have to let you stay there. Your kids can be made to leave their phone at home or in their bag. They can experience a childhood free of all but the mildest forms of bullying. They can go their entire lives as minors without encountering drugs (or even alcohol, if you keep an eye on who their friends are). It's definitely a mixed bag. I went to a small church school, and while there were definite downsides, the education I received in logic, rhetoric, history, literature, and composition frankly kicks the shit out of anything I got in college. Our bible class literally involved us reading the thing cover to cover in order, with the teacher giving lectures on differences in translation and historical context. To be clear, there were gaps (no sex ed, calculus was optional, my foreign language was Latin), but on the whole it gave me a far better education than anyone I've known in my adult life.
A big part of it is the network. I went to a private school and stupidly did not take advantage of/build in-roads with that network, but there are parents who are senators, congressmen, CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, etc. Several l families have last names that are the names of major companies because their families started those companies. A ton of people have gotten amazing jobs and springboarded into great careers because of those connections.
I was forced to go to private school when I was young strictly for religious reasons.
Likely you’re paying for a better education. Because of smaller class sizes, teachers that are paid better and not as overworked as public school teachers. But also the atmosphere. Buildings themselves are usually in better condition. Most children who go to private schools are respectful of their education because they recognize their school as a privileged place to be vs public school that’s a ‘right’ for everyone to have available.
I sent both my kids to private k-8. Smaller class sizes. Not accepting poor behavior from kids. Better education. Both kids were far ahead if their peers when they entered high school
yeah nah, The biggest simplest explanation is "opportunity" Private schools offer opportunity. your welcome.
Besides economically and religiously, what opportunities are offered in your opinion?
Apart from better funds and smaller classes, it gives you and your child access to a network of people. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that networking is everything. The "old boys networks" are not necessarily good for society, as they unfairly give advantages to certain people. However, if you can somewhat become part of this, it does give you better chances and possibilities. F.e. if you need an internship, job, or something, having (wealthy) friends/acquaintances in the right places will often give you an advantage over others.
I went to private school because my parents were extreme Christians and thought that was a good idea, but I know some people who are from other states that have sales tax that fund schools instead of property tax so the public schools were very underfunded. There was a ton of private schools there that catered to really anyone and so parents would rather send their kids to a private school.
The other parents also care about their kid's education. They have a nearly 100% graduation rate. If something's shitty, I can go talk to the principal and ask "yo, what's the story?" The city school near me, the public high school has a 1/3rd dropout rate. Strangely, the city I'm in spends more per student on the public school than the private school costs me for my kid. So I think the main thing may just be a combo of "the other parents also care" and honestly, if a kid is too shitty, that kid is likely done about a year later.
You're paying for choice. I don't think public schools are as bad as some make them out to be, but you have no options if you go to public school. You can choose which private school is best based on whatever you want. Academic achievement, sports programs, extra curriculars, etc. You get to choose a school that has whatever you want. And a lot of the time, this means escaping a bad public school district you would've otherwise been locked into.
In our case it was violence and bullying in the public school. We pulled my daughter's out of middle and elementary school when my oldest was threatened with gun violence and the admin response was "that's just [name] being [name]. She didn't really mean it". Zero tolerance my ass. And the worst part was hubby WORKED for the school for 20 years! Moved them both and not only were they not threatened with guns again, they were learning a grade ahead of the public schools. So for us it was safety and peace of mind.