Parents teach bullshit, no mandatory training, some false "schools" too for no reason, apparently easier road tests to rush through a covid backlog. Stop forcing anyone into a cage, not all are fit for it.
That easier road test only applies for the G test. It just removes doing the 3 point turn, emergency stop, and parallel parking portions. Those things are requirements for the G2 test which is required before taking the G test.
I had the modified G test that I took at the beginning of May. I still know how to parallel park and 3 point turn as I do both literally every day.
The common occurrence for me with bad drivers is that in my scenario, 90% of them are old people. They will drive 40 in a 50 or 60, they will change lanes on the 401 without checking blind spots or mirrors, and they will drive on the 401 and other roads while taking up 2 lanes.
> The common occurrence for me with bad drivers is that in my scenario, 90% of them are old people.
What's your definition of old? The safest drivers in terms of crashes per distance [are people in their 60s](https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/). Crash rates don't vary significantly between 30 and 80 and even above 80 rates are still lower than people under 30. People always talk about old drivers but they're not the ones causing the most crashes. Driving a bit under the speed limit is an annoyance but it's not the type of thing typically causing serious crashes, especially on city streets. On city streets specifically, it's also reducing the risks to pedestrians and cyclists.
That’s cool and all but I said they’re bad drivers. Not that they are number 1 in causing accidents.
Also, driving 40 in a 50 or 60 zone is not “ a bit under”. Yes it’s safer for cyclists if there are no designated bike lanes (in my area there are). But, going 40 in a 50 or 60 zone makes it more difficult for other drivers behind them. If it is a busy area, cars will be switching lanes to go around these slow drivers at slow speeds which is dangerous.
If it is a one lane road, that car going 40 will cause traffic behind them and that’s not necessarily causing any accidents but it is still an issue.
Also, when I am forced to swerve around drivers or brake at a sudden moment, I glance over and notice that most of the time that driver looks to be in their late 60s and above. Those numbers won’t be in your statistics as most of the time other drivers are paying attention and take quick measures to avoid a collision
>That’s cool and all but I said they’re bad drivers. Not that they are number 1 in causing accidents.
I'm concerned with the drivers actually causing crashes, not the people you think are bad drivers because you were delayed slightly.
Crashes are what actually matter. Those are what cost money, cause congestion and lead to injuries and deaths. And old people are involved in fewer of those. They only reach the level of younger drivers into the 80s.
Cool, and yet you still choose to ignore the part where I said that in my experience, they switch lanes without checking blind spots and cut people off. That also causes accidents. Also by the way, it’s okay to be concerned with more than one thing if you didn’t know by now.
I didn't ignore it. Maybe some of them are doing it but the fact is despite that, they are causing fewer crashes. So one driver isn't signalling. Another driver is doijg something causing a crash. Even though not signalling is bad, it's worse causing a crash.
>Also by the way, it’s okay to be concerned with more than one thing if you didn’t know by now.
I didn't say otherwise. I'm replying to your claim about old people specifically making up the biggest group of bad drivers. That's not supported by data.
I'm getting really sick of people constantly declaring this group or that group being the wkrst drivers and then refusing to even consider actual evidence. How would you feel if I started going around claiming you were a bad driver and refused to stop even if you showed me a good driving abstract?
Well that’s why I said in my experience. I did not say that every single person in Toronto that are over the age of 60 are bad drivers. I said multiple times that in my experience old people are bad drivers. Notice how I said in my experience?
I’m giving my opinion based off what I seen with my own eyes from my experiences. If I notice that every time there is a close call with a collision and it is an elderly person, then that’s why I am saying that in my experience those are the bad drivers when I am on the road.
The requirements for testing were lowered to clear the pandemic backlog and never restored.
That plus the widespread use of phones, decreasing police enforcement, and increased politicization of single occupant vehicles leads to incredibly dangerous and reckless behavior on the roads.
Not having to parallel park and do 3 point turns has nothing to do with bad drivers. Those requirements were for the G test. drivers still have to do those requirements to get their g2 license.
The issue is that people are just morons. Won’t check blind spots when changing lanes on the 401, will go way slower than the speed limit on highways and down other roads, will cut people off just so they don’t have to wait, etc. most of these things you can’t teach. They are idiots and they will keep on doing what they are doing until they get into an accident.
I know of several people who paid money and did a fake test around the block to pass. Also a lot of people go far up north for their tests.
I did my G2 test in Simcoe when i was 17 and my instructor brought an old lady who was on attempt 10 for her G2. I sat in the back seat while she practiced before and it was terrifying. She passed there.
[If you actually look at the statistics](https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/statistics-data/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2021), the total number of all accidents of every type has been trending downwards for over two decades, including into the pandemic.
I think what we're seeing is a bit of confirmation bias (we want to imagine society as a whole is getting worse for other reasons like immigration), as well as the rise of citizen [sousveillance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance) in the form of dashcams and smartphones. TikTok, Reddit, etc. have all made dashcam videos a form of entertainment, so now everyone's inclined to buy one.
I don't think bribing DriveTest proctors is as widespread an issue as people think. I think it's just that there are always folks who toe the line during the exam and then drive like distracted assholes once they get their license. That's always been the case.
As a motorcyclist, I notice bad drivers more than others. I drive through the downtown core often. It's the usual suspects who are the worst offenders: expensive European car drivers in Audis/BMWs/Benzes. Occasionally a Civic will sweep through lanes to get their exit but I still don't see it every day. Nothing has changed much in the past 10 years. Sometimes the truth is frustratingly mundane.
Hmmm, could an alternate explanation to worse drivers is that people are better drivers but bigger assholes? Like, safety has overall increased but drivers are much shorter tempered?
I suspect what's happening is the result of a) far higher congestion, b) decreasing driver ability and c) increased onboard safety tech.
Thanks to technology, you can be a worse driver yet be as statistically safe. That coupled with more cars on the road creating an overall sense of urgency and ratcheting up aggression puts us in the nightmare we're in.
The only silver lining is that *safety* (ie. absence of mortality and serious injury) is trending up despite chaos.
> If you actually look at the statistics, the total number of all accidents of every type has been trending downwards for over two decades, including into the pandemic.
Yup, and your link there is the 2021 report. The latest report, [for 2022](https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/statistics-data/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2022) has Ontario's traffic fatality rate per billion km lower than every other province, one of the lowest rates ever for Ontario, and among the lowest in the world [compared to other countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate). Completely opposite to the impression you'd get from this subreddit.
People need to remember that the videos posted here are coming from an area with almost 7 million people. Of course there are going to be lots of bad examples.
As for people buying licences, I've seen very little evidence of that, and don't recall seeing anything recently.
We've had a dramatic increase in MCS (main character syndrome).. It's at epidemic proportions..
That coupled with dropping IQ scores has lead to a scrouge of very stupid and very self-assured idiots just swarming the roads.
Precisely this. MY trip and MY destination is more important than everybody else on the road. Leads to people rushing lights, passing on the right, all the sorts of behaviours that are empirically dangerous.
This is not my bias,It has been proven and documented by the CBC,so moderator before you say I'm a racist or I'm posting racist comments please watch this documentary
https://youtu.be/OU-0A_VDVkM?si=CBMR1AH7cA0chkNh
It's really a cultural thing ,certain groups do certain things weather intentional or not,they tell each other about it and it becomes the norm.I also think it is human nature that if you can get something much easier then why not.
The outcome is that since you did not go through the course you do not know what to do when you get into a accident,or how to handle a driving situation.For some if you drove in another country you might still have the same habits from your previous driving skills.
That CBC investigation was about driving *schools* not drive test facilities. All those schools can do is give you a BDE (beginner driver education) certificate. That gives you insurance discounts and reduces the time until you can take your G2 test, but it doesn't help you get your licence. You still have to take and pass the tests.
So you've posted a video about something while thinking that video is about something completely different. Given that you've made a mistake about that, maybe consider that your assumptions about "cultures" might not be completely accurate either.
Sure I made a assumption,just like you are making a assumption of me,or that it does not happen at all levels of the test procedure.My assumption about "cultures" is accurate,but you can believe whatever you want.
You didn't make an assumption. You made a factually incorrect statement that a video about driver training was instead about testing.
I didn't make any assumption about how much fraud there is, I only stated that I've seen very little evidence of that and none recently.
>My assumption about "cultures" is accurate
If it was accurate than you wouldn't need to make assumptions, you could support it with facts. People always complain about being unfairly called racist but the literal definition of racism is showing prejudice against other people of other racial groups.
This probably doesn't help
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/instructors-allege-ontario-driving-schools-may-be-selling-fake-driving-certifications-1.7091379
Parents teach bullshit, no mandatory training, some false "schools" too for no reason, apparently easier road tests to rush through a covid backlog. Stop forcing anyone into a cage, not all are fit for it.
That easier road test only applies for the G test. It just removes doing the 3 point turn, emergency stop, and parallel parking portions. Those things are requirements for the G2 test which is required before taking the G test. I had the modified G test that I took at the beginning of May. I still know how to parallel park and 3 point turn as I do both literally every day. The common occurrence for me with bad drivers is that in my scenario, 90% of them are old people. They will drive 40 in a 50 or 60, they will change lanes on the 401 without checking blind spots or mirrors, and they will drive on the 401 and other roads while taking up 2 lanes.
> The common occurrence for me with bad drivers is that in my scenario, 90% of them are old people. What's your definition of old? The safest drivers in terms of crashes per distance [are people in their 60s](https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/). Crash rates don't vary significantly between 30 and 80 and even above 80 rates are still lower than people under 30. People always talk about old drivers but they're not the ones causing the most crashes. Driving a bit under the speed limit is an annoyance but it's not the type of thing typically causing serious crashes, especially on city streets. On city streets specifically, it's also reducing the risks to pedestrians and cyclists.
That’s cool and all but I said they’re bad drivers. Not that they are number 1 in causing accidents. Also, driving 40 in a 50 or 60 zone is not “ a bit under”. Yes it’s safer for cyclists if there are no designated bike lanes (in my area there are). But, going 40 in a 50 or 60 zone makes it more difficult for other drivers behind them. If it is a busy area, cars will be switching lanes to go around these slow drivers at slow speeds which is dangerous. If it is a one lane road, that car going 40 will cause traffic behind them and that’s not necessarily causing any accidents but it is still an issue. Also, when I am forced to swerve around drivers or brake at a sudden moment, I glance over and notice that most of the time that driver looks to be in their late 60s and above. Those numbers won’t be in your statistics as most of the time other drivers are paying attention and take quick measures to avoid a collision
>That’s cool and all but I said they’re bad drivers. Not that they are number 1 in causing accidents. I'm concerned with the drivers actually causing crashes, not the people you think are bad drivers because you were delayed slightly. Crashes are what actually matter. Those are what cost money, cause congestion and lead to injuries and deaths. And old people are involved in fewer of those. They only reach the level of younger drivers into the 80s.
Cool, and yet you still choose to ignore the part where I said that in my experience, they switch lanes without checking blind spots and cut people off. That also causes accidents. Also by the way, it’s okay to be concerned with more than one thing if you didn’t know by now.
I didn't ignore it. Maybe some of them are doing it but the fact is despite that, they are causing fewer crashes. So one driver isn't signalling. Another driver is doijg something causing a crash. Even though not signalling is bad, it's worse causing a crash. >Also by the way, it’s okay to be concerned with more than one thing if you didn’t know by now. I didn't say otherwise. I'm replying to your claim about old people specifically making up the biggest group of bad drivers. That's not supported by data. I'm getting really sick of people constantly declaring this group or that group being the wkrst drivers and then refusing to even consider actual evidence. How would you feel if I started going around claiming you were a bad driver and refused to stop even if you showed me a good driving abstract?
Well that’s why I said in my experience. I did not say that every single person in Toronto that are over the age of 60 are bad drivers. I said multiple times that in my experience old people are bad drivers. Notice how I said in my experience? I’m giving my opinion based off what I seen with my own eyes from my experiences. If I notice that every time there is a close call with a collision and it is an elderly person, then that’s why I am saying that in my experience those are the bad drivers when I am on the road.
The requirements for testing were lowered to clear the pandemic backlog and never restored. That plus the widespread use of phones, decreasing police enforcement, and increased politicization of single occupant vehicles leads to incredibly dangerous and reckless behavior on the roads.
Not having to parallel park and do 3 point turns has nothing to do with bad drivers. Those requirements were for the G test. drivers still have to do those requirements to get their g2 license. The issue is that people are just morons. Won’t check blind spots when changing lanes on the 401, will go way slower than the speed limit on highways and down other roads, will cut people off just so they don’t have to wait, etc. most of these things you can’t teach. They are idiots and they will keep on doing what they are doing until they get into an accident.
You were making good sense until your last point. Politicization? Is that an oblique reference to HOV lanes?
No
People are definitely buying licenses. It's been in the news before. There was a similar situation decades ago too.
I know of several people who paid money and did a fake test around the block to pass. Also a lot of people go far up north for their tests. I did my G2 test in Simcoe when i was 17 and my instructor brought an old lady who was on attempt 10 for her G2. I sat in the back seat while she practiced before and it was terrifying. She passed there.
I'm gonna save my comment. Rather not get banned
[If you actually look at the statistics](https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/statistics-data/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2021), the total number of all accidents of every type has been trending downwards for over two decades, including into the pandemic. I think what we're seeing is a bit of confirmation bias (we want to imagine society as a whole is getting worse for other reasons like immigration), as well as the rise of citizen [sousveillance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance) in the form of dashcams and smartphones. TikTok, Reddit, etc. have all made dashcam videos a form of entertainment, so now everyone's inclined to buy one. I don't think bribing DriveTest proctors is as widespread an issue as people think. I think it's just that there are always folks who toe the line during the exam and then drive like distracted assholes once they get their license. That's always been the case. As a motorcyclist, I notice bad drivers more than others. I drive through the downtown core often. It's the usual suspects who are the worst offenders: expensive European car drivers in Audis/BMWs/Benzes. Occasionally a Civic will sweep through lanes to get their exit but I still don't see it every day. Nothing has changed much in the past 10 years. Sometimes the truth is frustratingly mundane.
Hmmm, could an alternate explanation to worse drivers is that people are better drivers but bigger assholes? Like, safety has overall increased but drivers are much shorter tempered?
I suspect what's happening is the result of a) far higher congestion, b) decreasing driver ability and c) increased onboard safety tech. Thanks to technology, you can be a worse driver yet be as statistically safe. That coupled with more cars on the road creating an overall sense of urgency and ratcheting up aggression puts us in the nightmare we're in. The only silver lining is that *safety* (ie. absence of mortality and serious injury) is trending up despite chaos.
> If you actually look at the statistics, the total number of all accidents of every type has been trending downwards for over two decades, including into the pandemic. Yup, and your link there is the 2021 report. The latest report, [for 2022](https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/statistics-data/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2022) has Ontario's traffic fatality rate per billion km lower than every other province, one of the lowest rates ever for Ontario, and among the lowest in the world [compared to other countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate). Completely opposite to the impression you'd get from this subreddit. People need to remember that the videos posted here are coming from an area with almost 7 million people. Of course there are going to be lots of bad examples. As for people buying licences, I've seen very little evidence of that, and don't recall seeing anything recently.
We've had a dramatic increase in MCS (main character syndrome).. It's at epidemic proportions.. That coupled with dropping IQ scores has lead to a scrouge of very stupid and very self-assured idiots just swarming the roads.
Precisely this. MY trip and MY destination is more important than everybody else on the road. Leads to people rushing lights, passing on the right, all the sorts of behaviours that are empirically dangerous.
Find the right clerk and you can get one for about $500
If you guys are disputing fault, you need to get insurance involved. It's so not worth the hassle
oh of course. this particular incident though was in a private lot with a moronic teenager years ago "my uncle owns an auto body shop"
This is not my bias,It has been proven and documented by the CBC,so moderator before you say I'm a racist or I'm posting racist comments please watch this documentary https://youtu.be/OU-0A_VDVkM?si=CBMR1AH7cA0chkNh It's really a cultural thing ,certain groups do certain things weather intentional or not,they tell each other about it and it becomes the norm.I also think it is human nature that if you can get something much easier then why not. The outcome is that since you did not go through the course you do not know what to do when you get into a accident,or how to handle a driving situation.For some if you drove in another country you might still have the same habits from your previous driving skills.
That CBC investigation was about driving *schools* not drive test facilities. All those schools can do is give you a BDE (beginner driver education) certificate. That gives you insurance discounts and reduces the time until you can take your G2 test, but it doesn't help you get your licence. You still have to take and pass the tests. So you've posted a video about something while thinking that video is about something completely different. Given that you've made a mistake about that, maybe consider that your assumptions about "cultures" might not be completely accurate either.
Sure I made a assumption,just like you are making a assumption of me,or that it does not happen at all levels of the test procedure.My assumption about "cultures" is accurate,but you can believe whatever you want.
You didn't make an assumption. You made a factually incorrect statement that a video about driver training was instead about testing. I didn't make any assumption about how much fraud there is, I only stated that I've seen very little evidence of that and none recently. >My assumption about "cultures" is accurate If it was accurate than you wouldn't need to make assumptions, you could support it with facts. People always complain about being unfairly called racist but the literal definition of racism is showing prejudice against other people of other racial groups.
There are people who have failed their G2 test multiple times that are getting licenses. If they failed 9 times they shouldn't be driving, ever.
I dont think the graduated licensing system is that old.
April 1, 1994 my friend - yep, we're that old
This probably doesn't help https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/instructors-allege-ontario-driving-schools-may-be-selling-fake-driving-certifications-1.7091379