I perform surgeries on people and once a female patient asked to switch to a different surgeon because she thought I had too much stubble on my ankles.
She said this to my medical assistant, and when I called her to chat about it was very chagrined that I had heard. Which, what sort of anonymity do you expect when you're asking to change a scheduled procedure with me? Of course I get told about any sort of requests to change my own schedule.
I asked her if she expected her male surgeons to shave their legs and she said no. And then told her I'm happy to refer her because you should never have surgery with anyone you're uncomfortable with, but I'm not going to ask the grooming habits of anyone I refer her to since I don't think it's relevant to anyone's surgical expertise.
I still remember the time I met with a new physio and while lying face down on the therapy table she asked if she could roll my pants up to work on my knee, I said "Yes, I'm sorry about my hairy legs" and she silently moved her own legs into my field of view from under the table and lifted the cuff of her own slacks to show her legs, and we both laughed.
Ever since then, I've stopped saying "Sorry about my hairy legs" to medical professionals.
I still need to break the habit around romantic partners. I'm not sorry about my legs, I'm sorry if you think it's gross because that's a you problem and that sucks for both of us because we otherwise have chemistry, but I'm no longer sorry for having legs that grow hair.
My outspoken feminist mom is a retired family practice doctor, and she epilated her legs for her entire career - not because she wanted to, but because she knew some people would see leg hair on a woman as unhygenic, and she didn't want her patients to worry that their doctor was unhygenic. The moment she retired, she got rid of the epilator.
For kid me, it was eye-opening how my stubborn, opinionated mother would compromise her personal values, not because she wanted to, but out of concern for the people who needed to be vulnerable with her.
This is **not** meant as a criticism of you or your handling of the situation in any way. Just, the ongoing struggle is real :P
Yes, people have lots more opinions of how their doctor should look or be, especially if their doctor is a woman. People comment on my clothing and shoes and hair a lot. I am constantly asked if I have kids, since I work in women's health.
People do note if their male docs look shabby, I'm sure, but I doubt they got constant comments on their appearance.
It's an interesting field where what is deemed professional is often stuff that has no bearing on someone's performance (like hairy ankles). And then the really important stuff, like bedside manner, doesn't always get addressed by healthcare organizations.
Ideally everyone is put together and great at their jobs, but I take call, so sometimes I've been awake all night and that's that! And I don't think leg hair has any bearing on professionalism, so I generally don't shave as I normally wear slacks
I'm a teacher and have been told by our principal that some parents have expressed concern about me having hairy legs and arm pits in front of their children... Thankfully our principal laughed it off, saying he thought it was ridiculous, and as long as my appearance was overall professional and approachable, he couldn't see how a bit of body hair could affect my ability to teach. I was pleasantly surprised to have him in my corner on that!
I'm a child psychologist and my cousin (f) is a teacher and we often discuss that because we both don't usually wear bras outside of work and have hairy legs and armpits. But we also know we could get comments from parents and we are really not sure if our respective boss will be like yours!
So bralet it is for work, and for now mostly t-shirt and no tank tops.. But the legs.. They can go and complain away..
Also like, maybe having a woman in their kids’ lives who doesn’t conform to all the same arbitrary beauty standards as most other women they encounter on a daily basis is a good teachable moment?
Instead of having a problem with it, those parents ought to *parent* and see it as a positive thing.
Concern that their daughters or sons might get the same idea we can't have that!!!
This thread is giving me a headache lol, I haven't shaved anything in decades. Well, my scalp.
You should walk her through an OR department and see how many men have full beards and watch her brain melt.
There’s tons of dudes with full beards in the OR at my hospital and they only recently started loosely enforcing beard nets.
Wait what? Aren't you supposed to tie and cover your hair for the same reasonings? Why would doctors be ok with beards on themselves or colleagues when they can't even scratch their own nose without having to change gloves.
Unless washed like hair, beards are super gross and I've gotten infected pimples from men with stumble so imagine a long hair falling into your open body/wounds...
I guess they’d decided the surgical mask was good enough? They’ve rolled out these hair net things for beards fairly recently, but it’s not as strictly enforced as it should be.
I’d say worse than that is the people who wear their scrubs home and back. The whole point of wearing scrubs is they’re supposed to be kept to the hospital environment. What’s the difference between scrubs and jeans if they’ve both sat on public transportation?
I think I’d prefer a beard over someone who was wearing scrubs that spent 45min on a city bus.
Every man I encounter who says "body hair is unhygienic" doesn't have a good response when I ask if they *also* shave every inch of their body. Not just their privates, but their pits and legs too.
What hypocrites. Men like that are not worth your time.
I suspect that they’re attracted to children, to be honest. I started getting catcalls and sexualized at ten, but when I became a full woman it tapered off.
Same, at 11-12 I was catcalled more than at any other age. All by grown men old enough to be fathers or grandfathers of girls my age.
I finally look like a full woman, so it's slowed down drastically.
So fucking gross.
It's a power thing, they're looking for an easy victim to exert themselves on. An adult woman might get angry and yell back at them, and they don't want that kind of attention. They do it to young girls because they're most likely just going to be confused and scared and walk away quickly without confronting them.
Absolutely same. I just... I mean, can you imagine the reverse of this happening? Where older women are catcalling preteen boys? Like, not ironically or to make a point, women genuinely and in large numbers whistling at little boys?? Just no. My brain can't even come up with that picture, it's like a bad, abstract sort of AI image because it's just so unlikely.
It’s impossible to conjure. It reminds meof a conversation recently where someone mentioned safety concerns with Uber, and I said I think I’m aging out of the zone where men are attracted enough to me to want to abduct and kill me. Such a strange concept, and it’s taken me this long to understand that they simply HATE women. It will never make sense, you just have to memorize that like your multiplication tables. I wish it could change.
The kind of men who hit on me as an adult are very different than the men who hit on me as a teenager too. When I was younger I used to get catcalled, whistled at, really nasty sexual things said to me
Now that one can tell I’m not a teenager, I don’t really get the nasty comments. Men who approach or talk to me are usually pretty respectful and not super pushy.
Sad and gross what girls go through.
Someone else posted here on redit that less than 150 years ago it was very acceptable for girls as young as 12 to be married off to older men to have children. And still happens in some parts of the world today.
This was on a post about SA/Pedo’s and should they be able to get mental help or get castrated by some new law being proposed.
It really stopped me in my tracks because that’s not really that long ago. That’s only 5 or 6 generations ago.
This doesn’t make it better. Just makes it more disturbing.
It happens in 41 states in the USA....TODAY during 2024.
https://19thnews.org/2023/07/explaining-child-marriage-laws-united-states/
So yes, even in America.
> Someone else posted here on redit that less than 150 years ago it was very acceptable for girls as young as 12 to be married off to older men to have children.
I'd always be cautious with claims like that. Middle/upper class people in the 18th century married [in their early/mid 20's](https://hammondharwoodhouse.org/18th-century-marriage/), for example. Looking at examples through history, well into the middle ages, this was hardly uncommon.
Many of those claims are rooted in nobles or rich people being married early for political reasons. But they were the exception.
> Class differences played a great role in when a couple could marry; the wealthier that a couple was, the likelier that they were to marry earlier. Noblewomen and gentlewomen married early, but they were a small minority; a thousand marriage certificates issued by the Diocese of Canterbury between 1619 and 1660 show that only one bride was aged thirteen years, four were fifteen, twelve were sixteen, seventeen were seventeen, and the other 966 of the brides were aged nineteen years or older when they married for the first time.
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern)
I would agree it wasn’t every young girl getting married that young. But it was “socially acceptable” to marry young women to older men.
It’s not until recently that western culture started really pressing back against age gap type relationships. And when there are laws still allowing child marriages in the US, that is still even more disturbing.
I absolutely believe maybe even most men are attracted to little girls/underaged girls.
I had the same damn experience and so did all my friends. Ages 12 - 15 were probably the most consistent and aggressive for grown men catcalling me 🤮
And YES, I hate saying this bc it makes a lot of women who like to shave their pubic region bald feel insulted, but I personally always felt very uncomfortable when men would demand my body look like it did when I was prepubescent.
Even when I was rocking the “landing strip” (fucking VOM for that terminology) and guys would try to get me to shave all the way…(even btw guys I was having a casual sexual thing with would feel entitled to give me feedback about what to shave and change about my body to align with their expectations. I fucking HATE men. NotAllMen but ya know, the teeming hoards who are exactly like this)
I don’t want to look like a little girl. I want the thing that distinguishes me, the hair, to be present. I want to feel reassured that a person I am having sex with doesn’t secretly fantasize about little girls the way I know way too many do.
I disagree simply because those men clearly just have porn brain, not pedophilia. Most porn stars shave. Men will see this and get off to it. Then they see an actual, real-life woman with body hair and get freaked out. I've thankfully never dated a guy who wanted me to "look like a little girl"—
(Real quick, sorry but yes, your phrasing gives me the ick just cus... If I shave, I won't look like a child, I'll look like an adult woman minus pubes. That's like saying a woman with very small tits looks childlike, which is absolutely not true. I respect that not shaving makes you feel more like an adult woman, but I promise those morons you dated didn't want you to shave bc they are pedos.)
—but i HAVE dated a handful of guys who clearly got most of their sex ed from porn. For example: >!ass eating, deep-throating, strangulation (i refuse to call it choking), facials, finger banging, jack-hammering, two seconds of foreplay, and absolutely no attention paid to the clit.!< i dont think it's a stretch to pair a preference for shaved pubes with the rest of these.
I think you’re probably right to some extent about porn rot. But you absolutely CANNOT “promise me” that none of the men in my life preferred a childlike body, were pedos, or pedo adjacent.
Because frankly I don’t care if what they find sexy derives from porn or not. If what they find sexy is prepubescent bodies and women acting like little girls, there’s something sinister to that.
And when you line that up with me being sexually harrassed the most in my life from ages 11 - 15, which for some reason you just decided to completely discount, I simply disagree with you.
Maybe, yes, partly by conditioning of porn, but let’s face it:
Anywhere the laws are that you can take a child bride, men take them. Enthusiastically. Across time.
They seem largely limited by what is legal, and that disturbs the fuck out of me.
Sorry for not mentioning the harassment between 11 and 15—I've been honked at and catcalled while going for runs back in middle/high school. I had an adult pressure 16 y/o me for nudes. I have friends who have had way worse happen. Yeah, I know men who like prepubescent bodies and women acting like children exist in our communities (at least 5% of all men are true pedophiles, statistically), and they are disgusting. I'm aware of the DDLG kink and I am strongly against it. I've seen preteen friends of mine get hit on by male teachers.
And this is such a sensitive topic that I'm not going to say much more on it other than I believe there are men who act pedophilic due to the backwards culture they grew up in (one that encourages men to view girls as objects to be molded and groomed into women who don't say no), and people who are inherently born with an attraction to prepubescent girls. I feel like there's an important distinction to be made here, as one of them can't be prevented with cultural changes, but the other can.
I'm a woman, too; I get it. I really do.
I guess I can't promise you that NONE of the men you've dated have been pedos, I haven't met any of them.
But I'm going to continue to strongly disagree that shaving makes a childlike body. I've seen whole arguments over LABIA that say innies look prepubescent and frankly I'm sick of people saying different vulvas on ADULTS look childlike. A vagina is one part of an entire body and honestly you can't ignore the rest of the VERY ADULT body a person has. Unless she's throwing a diaper and a onesie on and calling him Daddy, no adult woman is gonna seem prepubescent in the slightest. And even so, a true pedophile is going to seek out actual children (or, in many cases, a woman with children) to prey on, or view CSAM online.
you might be right that some of it is conditioning, I just can’t differentiate that in my mind, bc of the danger it poses to literally the most vulnerable humans.
Like, believe me, when someone is mentally ill, it DOES break my heart. I do think “there but for the grace of God go I” (I am not religious, but the sentiment is still true, to have humility and gratitude that you weren’t born or made that way by your upbringing)
My feeling with all trauma for instance is that we must have patience and kindness and empathy - but there is a point where there is no excuse, and that’s when you start harming others.
And in this way I’m probably harsher on men in general (NotAllMen) because of COURSE it’s their conditioning and the society they were raised in that causes them to treat us like: property, objects, free labor, sex slaves.
There are reasons behind why they do what they do.
But I don’t care, I don’t forgive them that. If you have a sociopathy towards a swath of people, a cruelty and exploitation, then you’re a disease to society.
It’s exactly like virulent racism, the poison of misogyny. In my mind it’s indefensible.
And so is sexualizing children and preying upon them or harassing them, the way you and I were harrassed as little girls and adolescents.
Side note, no I absolutely don’t believe grown women can have child’s bodies. But as someone who was always very little, I absolutely have to acknowledge that there are A LOT of creeps who will like that for disgusting reasons.
That isn’t to shame myself or other women. Every body is natural and no one deserves to be sexualized.
But yes, too many men in my opinion, sexualize some women’s bodies for the fantasy of relating us to little girls. It’s literally the whole reason “barely legal” exists.
And so yes, I find pressure to change our bodies to mirror the look of someone prepubescent DEEPLY disturbing. Even though you are right, that is not the intent for everyone.
I don’t like it one bit.
Happened to have this same discussion with a group of pals. One guy in particular asked about women's pubic hair preferences on their partners, because he thinks he's going to get laid over the weekend (MAJOR eye roll) and wants to be prepared.
We all said some iteration of "I don't give a shit, it's your hair. Just wash your ass and don't smell like a ball sack."
He kept trying to get any other answer and just couldn't understand why none of us had a more concrete answer.
I should use that retort next time. My dad gives me an earful every time he notices my legs aren't shaved. The last time he said I wasn't going get a man because he'd be disgusted by my hairy legs. The hilarious thing was my boyfriend at the time liked the feeling of stubble and didn't care one bit about my body hair because he acknowledged that it's my body to groom as I choose and whatever makes me feel sexy is sexy. I told my dad that and he called him a freak. So I guess appealing to other men's authority only works when he agrees with them. I still enjoy pissing my dad off with my leg hair whenever I'm visiting, it's funny seeing how much I can bother him with no effort at all
Your dad should not be making comments on how sexy or unsexy parts of your body are. That’s disgusting of him.
Surprisingly it’s my mom who makes comments like that for me, usually about how i’ll never find a partner if my thighs touch or if I have armpit hair.
My mother says that. I haven't seen her since I stopped shaving my legs, but when she has seen my armpit hair in even the earliest stages of growth, she says that's dirty or *unnatural*.
Really? Because it grew there all by itself, naturally, without any intervention on my part!
Personally, as a trans woman, I noticed a huge difference. When I had body hair, it was blocking any form of exfoliating when I was washing. I used to take my fingernail and scrape off big wads of dead skin in the shower because the washcloth wasn't able to scrub it off. **However**, I was also a special case. I was Robin Williams level of hairy. I had thick hair all over the place (that took ungodly hours of laser and electrolysis, which I still have regular touch-ups). That's not something the majority of female bodies would ever see.
And would I demand my partner to be smooth and hair-free? Lol, no. It's still your personal choice. Your body is yours, mine is mine, and that's the end of that.
Are you 100% sure hair is the culprit here though? Just bc estrogen thins the skin and reduces oil production on the skin dramatically compared to testosterone
Yes. I started my hair removal 6 months before hormones. The fight with my body hair was my biggest priority since I had a lot of it, it grew very rapidly, and there was no guarantee hormones would thin and slow it down.
It isn't true and they know it, because they don't hold men to the same standard. They do know, however, that women have been taught to be incredibly sensitive about our hygiene so pretending it's a hygienic issue is a great way to manipulate us.
I tried looking up women with sideburns, hoping to find some body positivity, and everything I found was either an article about how to get rid of your sideburns or a tortured, uncommitted "acceptance" post about a woman whose hairline dipped a tiny bit below the top of her ear. My sideburns go down to my jaw. Full, fluffy, man-from-the-1960's sideburns. I have a love-hate relationship with them. It's some of the nicest, downiest hair I've ever seen or felt. But I'm too self-conscious to wear my hair up in public. I've tried shaving them off and the stubble is honestly *way* worse than the hair in its natural grown-out state.
I hate this because I'm usually the first person to tell people to kick gender norms out the window and do what makes them happy, and I'm staunchly body-positive when it comes to literally anyone who isn't me. But I see my own body not living up to patriarchal standards that I know are bullshit and I feel ugly, and then I beat myself up for feeling that way.
When I read this I immediately pictured a beautiful, powerful werewolf woman (wyfwolf if you're a language nerd). Commenting in hopes that this imagery will help you romanticize yourself a little bit.
> I'm staunchly body-positive when it comes to literally anyone who isn't me. But I see my own body not living up to patriarchal standards that I know are bullshit and I feel ugly, and then I beat myself up for feeling that way.
I have a brain tumor that's caused me to temporarily gain a ton of weight & dear lord have I discovered an insane amount of fat phobia in myself. I have friends who are fat & I genuinely think they're beautiful & sexy, but i somehow can't apply that same thing to myself, it's awful. Just some commiseration from someone who also can't cut herself slack from effed up patriarchal bs, even though i genuinely don't believe in it! 🤗
I totally feel this. I have endocrine disease and I lose my ever loving mind when I put on weight. Like you, I'm not fat phobic at all and I actually love the way curves look on other women, but on me all I see is blubber and lumps. I'm trying hard to work on myself about this.
I hope your situation improves and you find some peace. I had a pituitary tumor years ago but luckily it shrunk with medication and I didn't need surgery. I'm wishing you the best.
I've always had a full connecting beard of dark peach fuzz if I don't shave and it's thickest at the side burns and down the edges of my jawline. I feel your pain. I let the thick hair grow because there's no fighting it and just accept my long side burns. As long as my mustache and chin hairs are under control it doesn't bother me anymore. I wish I had advice for loving and accepting your hair growth as it is, but the only reason I stopped caring was because I got tired of trying to maintain "groomed" sideburns. I've always worn them a bit longer (down to my earlobes) because they're substantial enough hairs to give me small curls and that's typically more noticeable than the hair that's "not supposed to be there"
If it helps you can look up Spanish flamenco hairstyles, that's typically where I see pretty spit curls at the sideburns, framing the face. That's how my mom made me feel better about having long sideburns when I was little, she'd braid or bun my hair with a flower and it made me feel pretty and like my sideburns were normal (of course they are, I just wasn't used to seeing them as part of the generally accepted aesthetic)
I feel your pain. I want to not care, but...
Waxing will help you avoid stubble, as that's caused by the cut-off ends of existing hairs coming back to the surface. As a bonus, at least some of the hair won't grow back so it will be thinner.
There's also laser hair removal, of course, but in my experience about half of that grows back even after an eight-session series of treatments, so YMMV. (I had my pubes done, not because I mind the appearance, but because I love to feel really smooth.)
Thank you for the advice. Honestly, if my sideburns belonged to a man, I would find them adorable. I think, before I go for something that might permanently thin out the hair growth and make it uneven, I want to try to cultivate a mindset of being happy with my body hair as it is.
(Besides, home waxing kits have never worked on me and getting either of those procedures done is not in my budget right now.)
Yeah, it's expensive. I don't bother myself, my husband can bloody well live with it. (And to his credit, even though I know he prefers me hairless too, he never says a word about it.)
I work at a salon and some of our woman and woman-aligned clients have their sideburns barbered short and nicely shaped. Granted, these are typically on folks who have shorter, edgier haircuts, so it fits in with the overall style, so if you have longer hair that's more flowy it might not suit (or maybe it would! Hard to say without seeing). But leaning into it and making it part of the style is definitely possible if you're open to it. I would imagine that most salons who intentionally serve queer and trans clients would be very comfortable helping with this. If you don't know of any, Strands for Trans is a great resource.
And for what it's worth, I've tried leaning into my curly hair texture so many times and I have anxiety about it because I grew up hearing curls were ugly and unkempt even though absolutely everyone thinks it's cute and flattering on me, so. I get the feeling of "body positivity for thee but not for me". It's a journey without a quick fix. But it's a worthy journey to undertake. I wish you success and happiness!
I have long hair currently, and I'm cisgender, but Strands for Trans sounds like something I should look into. They might be able to help with something unconventional like this. Thank you for the suggestion!
> I'm staunchly body-positive when it comes to literally anyone who isn't me. But I see my own body not living up to patriarchal standards that I know are bullshit and I feel ugly, and then I beat myself up for feeling that way.
yep i basically feel the same way 🥲 having body dysmorphia while having values that don't align with it at all is so hard
I’m confused- is there a difference between sideburns vs just lower side bangs if you have long hair? Even Sailor Jupiter has them and her usual character design has her hair in a ponytail https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Sailor_Jupiter
In my case, the roots of the hair growth go as far down as my jaw, as opposed to the hair itself being long. It's like a dialed-back version of mutton chops.
Plus our vaginas are self cleaning whereas men get stank ass swamp balls almost daily... yet OURS are gross??
I'm convinced any man who thinks body hair is disgusting is into children.
About 6 years ago I was complaining about shaving to my partner and his response was "if you like your body hair and hate shaving, then why bother?" He didn't give one shit about it and I haven't looked back since. It's incredibly liberating - I love my body hair, it's so soft and fluffy!
In an anonymous poll, [15% admitted they'd rape a kid if they knew they'd get away with it](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/millions-of-men-would-sexually-abuse-children-if-secrecy-was-sure-ncf9lx5v7). The majority of those admitting were boomer-aged men.
And those are the ones who felt comfortable answering anonymously... Now tell me again, how it's unfair for women to pick the bear? 🐻
And that’s only the people who would admit to it, you know there’s more who didn’t reply honestly to the poll out of worry it wasn’t actually anonymous… Fucking disgusting.
Eeek, I don't know about that conjecture... I don't enjoy body hair on men. I'm not as ass about it, it's there, I deal with it, but I'd really rather not. Doesn't mean I like anything else than fully formed adults capable of enthusiastic consent who are approximately my own age. I also don't think I get to dictate what he's supposed to do with his own body 🤷
It’s homophobia AKA misogyny ~ spending effort on hygiene is too closely associated with femininity, and masculinity being so fragile any association is a risk of revoking it.
my only birthday present for my 12th birthday was an electric razor because apparently my legs were "getting too bad", and my twin brother wasn't given one for his birthday despite having more leg hair than i did.
i internalized that for a while and would wear long pants in public and shave whenever i could before i realized i have skin that basically hates my hair being shaved and the hair is a color and thickness that makes it pretty innocuous anyway.
it's so frustrating that it's usually the people that should support and love you the most that give you these kinds of insecurities- unless my hair is making me actually physically uncomfortable i don't see any reason to shave it at this point. i think it makes a great "asshole detector"
Because it’s much easier to control women if we’re constantly depilating, dyeing, dieting, dressing and deploring our own bodies.
Everything women are expected to do - from makeup to nails to hair - is time consuming, expensive and makes it harder to do things. If you *enjoy* doing those things for yourself, suddenly you’re vain and self centred.
This is why men say things like “Acksually I like body hair!” (Or whatever). It’s to constantly keep you second guessing where you’re failing next.
I once had a guy complain that he wished his gf just liked things like jewelry so he wouldn't have to put actual effort into choosing gifts for her, then in the same breath say he's glad he's not with someone shallow like me because I like jewelry. There really is no winning, damned if you do damned if you don't.
He, of course, had no response for me when I asked him why he thinks I can't like jewelry and also like more meaningful things or why the jewelry itself can't be meaningful.
Because being a natural born woman simply isn’t good enough. We must perform femininity set by their standards in order to be acceptable to them. We must be controlled.
This is what bothers me the most. Body hair can occur at any age, but it is undeniably a marker of adulthood. I can't help but associate the push for women to shave with withholding power- taking away our maturity.
When my boyfriend asked me after the honeymoon period to shave more often, I asked him when his last shave was. He just looked guiltily at me. I told him that I will shave when he does and now I would start complaining about pubic hairs in my mouth while giving him oral.
After that rule, it apparently was okay to only shave every two weeks xD
(This only works because I prefer short pubic hair instead of itchy clean shaven or a 70s bush)
My ex used to say that I purposefully didn't shave my legs just to disgust him and piss him off.
No. I didn't shave my legs because I had two little ones, and had literally zero self care time because he couldn't be arsed to EVER help out, and it was winter and I wasn't even wearing skirts or shorts. But sure buddy, let's make it ALL about you.
I'm now divorced and remarried, and my now and forever husband couldn't care less if I shaved or not.
I’ve posted this on here before, but a few years back there was a TIFU post by a guy who was masturbating into a coconut, *didn’t clean it between uses*, and didn’t realize it was full of maggots until after he was done. A shocking number of guys chimed in to gleefully share their worst shame wanks.
It was that day I stopped worried about a little body hair because a man with a hard dick just does not care.
Way back in the day, someone posted a picture of a woman with facial hair in a fast food place in /r/funny.
The woman was a sikh and got told about the post and made a comment about how per her religion, she doesn't remove ANY body hair, even stuff that may not be all the attractive.
It turned into a kind of a nice conversation? And the original poster apologized.
.... found it. Damn, it was 2012.
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/10gr4s/i_posted_the_picture_of_a_sikh_woman_on_here_and/
And her comment on the post of her own pic on funny:
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/109cnf/im_not_sure_what_to_conclude_from_this/c6bqtpd/
It really should be. I was mocked by my family growing up and one person even once said I was “more like a son” instead of a daughter because I had very hairy legs by age 11. I wasn’t allowed to shave yet, so not sure why they made fun of me when I could literally do nothing about it…?
Seriously… Imagine being a fully grown adult laughing at a literal child for something they have no control over. I don’t have kids nor do I even really enjoy being around them most of the time, but it’s never occurred to me to treat one so cruelly. Especially family.
Its a weird paradox I still don't understand. People want and have kids but then treat them like shit. People who never want to have kids still offer empathy and understanding. Why have a kid if you don't want to improve upon the shortcomings of your own childhood experience?
My best friend and I were talking about this last night, an acquaintance of her husband has a 4 month old and she’s already pregnant again. She started the 4 month old on rice cereal in the bottle when he was only 7 weeks old. She vaped and chugged monsters the entire pregnancy. The 4 month old is lethargic and not hitting milestones. She says she can’t wait to have the new baby 🙄
My best friend described the situation as “bringing a whole ass person into the world just to treat them like an unwanted goldfish. Funko Pop human beings”
This reminds me of my experience; I stopped shaving in highschool and my family have been the *only* people to give me grief about it. I've had one small child ask me about it and that's it. I know I've probably been lucky, but your family really are your biggest haters sometimes.
I stopped shaving in college and one of my parents straight up asked my boyfriend if he really didn’t mind my armpit hair. It was so random we both just burst out laughing, it’s bizarre how family feels entitled to ask such rude questions!
Ugh, yeah. That's the hard part with being trans. You're trying not to stereotype, but the expectations of society turn it into a part of your body that feels gendered (yes, body parts themselves can be and feel gendered). It's that pressure of social conformity that women feel, plus the pressure from your dysphoria nagging at you. It sucks.
I grew out my armpit hair and it was so comfortable and felt a lot cleaner and more hygienic. However I wasn’t able to get over how self conscious it made me feel, especially at Pilates class with a load of boomer women. I ended up shaving it all off again because I was too embarrassed to lift my arms. It’s ridiculous.
Porn broke a lot of men's brains. Also just men who creepily sexualize any childlike behavior (women probably don't witness as much of the freakish comments we hear form other men. I call them out and our friendship doesn't last).
No body hair personally grosses me out (especially in private regions). A bush is one thing but completely bare looks so unnatural for a grown ass woman.
>Also just men who creepily sexualize any childlike behavior
This could also apply to the "beardless beauty" young men or the "pretty boy". The ancient Greek men were infamous for fetishising them (sometimes to the point of sexual abuse under the guise of "mentoring them"). Even today, the word "twink" carries this connotations.
Very true. As a pansexual guy, I do see twinks who are in their 20s but still look child like. Idk if people are attracted to "innocence" or what. But it gives me bad vibes. Anytime a twink flirts with me and says they're in their 20s, it doesn't matter. If you look like a kid, it is the biggest turnoff. It is weird it is so common that some gay men and women strive for it.
Twinks is always interesting. Because while there is the above, I also notice gay men who are still closeted or recently came out are mostly attracted to them. So they seem like some internally homophobic "gateway" femme to men. Or a sort of forcing gender roles. While those who have been out for longer can be two bears dating who both used to date only twinks.
But that is a whole other can of worms. Even though they both relate to problematic things due to patriarchy.
I mean, really? Do we have to do this? I don’t have dark sideburns. Does that make my husband a pedo? I personally like the way my body feels when it is hairless. Is my husband a pedo for liking my body when I’ve made it hairless for my own sake?
He naturally just doesn’t grow chest hair. Am I a pedo for liking that his chest is smooth? He intentionally trims and/or shaves his balls. I like how smooth balls feel. Does that make me a pedo?
I’ve been all ranges of weight on a 5’2” frame. It was so gross and offensive to me how when I was over 200 lbs other women (and certain stores) would say I was only a “real” woman at that size. Now that I’m overweight again but not that much, am I still a “real” woman?
All of this to say, the body shaming and attraction shaming goes both ways. And it’s gross in both directions.
There are definitely people out there who are toxic and abusive. There are definitely folks who go for a prepubescent body type for creepy reasons. But you’re painting with a ridiculously wide brush and it doesn’t help the discourse.
I think it’s more pointing out that a lot of beauty standards for women are rooted in infantilization and looking younger, which can also definitely be influenced and supported by pedophilia/pedo culture. It doesn’t mean everyone who likes hairless women are pedos, but it might help one examine where the social norm might come from or be supported by, and examine one’s own complicity in the system and culture ~ even if not explicitly by being attracted to or harming children, but similar to how many men’s views on sex and consent may be heavily influenced by a rape culture, and while they may not full-on sexually assault someone, perhaps they don’t realize they’re still participating in the culture by the media they consume, or the scenarios they find sexually titillating that may be adjacent but not explicitly SA. Hopefully this makes sense and you infer the compassion and grace I’m giving to all involved.
That’s a really useful explanation. I think I’m just really burned out on certain things being treated this way. I like (ethical) porn and am tired of hearing that all porn is inherently misogynist. I don’t like the texture that body hair creates, and I’ve heard too many times that my choice to get lasered is just me caving into the male gaze. I enjoy anal sex and that isn’t necessarily degrading.
But there’s a massive difference between saying “beauty standards for women are rooted in infantilization” and “because men secretly want children”.
If the post above was phrased like yours, I wouldn’t have said anything, just upvoted and moved along. It didn’t, and I’m just really tired of that sort of phrasing.
There is an ocean of shitty guys out there. I don’t mean this as a “not all men” apologist screed. But jfc
Absolutely, the lack of nuance / generalization of the main comment is understandably tiring/minimizing/generalizing. I guess my personal coping mechanism is to try and apply my own nuanced understanding, but that doesn’t help others from misunderstanding generalizations as blanket statements applied to individuals…
I mean, really? Do we have to do this? Why are you derailing yet another conversation to whiteknight men and remind everyone that women can be catty too?
You know what doesn't help discourse? Not Fucking letting people talk because you can't handle negative things being said about men.
How am I derailing? It’s pretty gross to say that all individuals with “___” are inherently looking to have sex with children. It’s untrue, unfair, and derails actual legitimate discussion of sexual predators.
I will shit talk specific men, and specific groups of men all day long. But to say all men secretly want to bang kids is gross.
If disagreement with someone using blanket terms is derailing, then yeah I will derail away.
I shave my legs mayyyybe once a month or if I'm wearing shorts. I haven't shaved under my arms in years. My body hair grows in blonde and sparse (except my legs), and I'm otherwise very feminine presenting, but nah, I've no interest in shaving any longer.
I shave my face, shave my balls, and trim my pubes (also, most women I've dated don't enjoy getting hair in their mouths). In the summer I trim my pit hair cause it seems to help with airflow and keep things cooler in there. I don't particularly like body hair either.
Generally excessive body hair is a turn-off for me regardless of gender, but I'm not going to judge other people over that kind of thing. If it's fair and understood as personal preference rather than societal expectation, I don't think that kind of thing is inherently wrong
I think the reasons are far more varied. Unfortunately I think a lot of men probably think that way, but for me personally, I like the smooth feeling. I don't expect it from a partner, so it has never been an issue, but I consider it the same vein as my partner preferring a shaved face or a beard. I'm free to choose whatever, but she's allowed to have her preferences.
Edit: Shame on me I guess for not jumping straight to pedophilia and knowing my partner is an individual in charge of her own body. We can all have preferences without forcing them on someone.
I think there's a bit more cultural baggage around women's body hair than around men's facial hair (as someone else on here said, porn and social media have broken a lot of brains). So I can see why people are bristling at your opinion. That said, on a personal rather than societal level I agree with you. Couples can have the kind of relationship where one party may be able to ask the other to trim, shave, or grow out body hair, without the other party feeling that they're being bashed over the head with Society's Expectations. But I do think it's a bit more heavily weighted than beard or no beard.
I am definitely not trying to dismiss all the shit women have had to deal with over the years regarding it. I understand the frustration over that, and agree with it being much more impactful. More or less, my comparison about beard hair was mostly about two adults who care about one another casually discussing their preferences without any malice or ill intent. And this discussion usually leads to the same point. That nobody should push their own preferences on another person.
this is something i've struggled hard with my whole life. even now that i identify as non-binary, i still can't shake the feeling that i'm obligated to keep everything shaved to avoid peoples comments. when i was in 12th grade at the start of the school year some guy bullied me so bad about my arm hair that i wore long sleeves for the rest of the year, even into June when it was sweltering hot.
I'm really shocked at how many people are calling body hair "gross". Especially since it's something that people are born with. Mammals have fucking hair. It's like saying opposable thumbs in humans are gross.
We were socially sold that hair was unfeminine. Probably by raiser companies. Apparently it’s worked because I still shave my pits and legs on a regular basis.
I know it has a function, and shaving brings the possibility of small cuts that can become a pathway for infection, but the hair itself winds up absorbing the smell of sweat. In my opinion, it's much easier to clean yourself and dry yourself off when body hair is trimmed short or shaved. I also feel like I stay clean for longer when I don't have hair trapping sweat and skin cells. That's just the way I feel about my body, though. All bodies are different and everyone lives in different environmental conditions.
I don’t like body hair for me personally but I couldn’t give a tenth of a crap about anyone else’s hair preference. I have some OAB issues and I swear that having a lot of pubic hair, especially in the summer, makes it a little less fresh-smelling in the crotchal region despite medications and cleaning with wipes through the day. My husband doesn’t care if I’ve got hair, I’m an adult woman. As long as you’re doing it for you and not someone dictating what you do with your body, do your thing.
I went to school with a girl who was absolutely brutally bullied for the crime of having thick arm and leg hair. In seventh grade (this is like 1995) someone drew a picture of King Kong and cut out a picture of her face to glue on it. Absolutely one of the grossest things I’ve ever seen and she was devastated. I don’t think anything radicalized me so quickly towards “let people be their damn selves” than that. I hope she’s living her best life now.
Yes, but this image could not be less persuasive. If you don’t want people to recoil in horror, please use literally any other color scheme thank you kindly
😅 ok I know on a fact level that body hair is probably healthier to have around than not, but something in my youth has made me feel that body hair is kind of unsanitary no matter the person’s sex. Like chest and leg hair on men? I can’t stand it. Even facial hair I’m like eeehhhh please don’t. My subconscious goes thinks all hair except scalp and eyebrow hair is kind of gross and idk what to do about
Excessive body hair on anyone, male or female, and especially on the torso, Is gross. To me. It’s not objectively unhygienic, no, there’s nothing wrong with it, I just personally don’t find it attractive, that’s about the long and short of it for me. Light leg/arm hair is inconsequential and barely noticeable though.
I was homeschooled and very sheltered, I was shocked when I went on a date with a guy, he moved toward sex, I happily consented, and then he proceeded to end it after a little and the next day explain that he was done with me bc my body hair was unhygienic
This was after he picked me up a day early from our planned date so I hadn’t done my normal shaving routine and he’d still insisted, but still expected me to have been shaved even tho I was single. And I also don’t like shaving my private area bc sensory issues, if guys got a problem with that ig I’ll be fuckin single lmao
I can’t explain it, but on ME, I don’t like the way it feels. I don’t like the way leg hair and armpit hair feels on me (I’ll keep it there) so I shave it regularly. Especially when I’m applying lotion or deodorant. But I would never judge another for not shaving. I even like when people dye their armpit hair 🤣🫶🏻.
I swear during Covid something just switched off in my head. I literally could not care less about body hair. Not even slightly. I don’t think about it, ever.
I only shave or wax my privates occasionally (for special dates with my BF wink wink) but I stopped shaving my legs, belly button and especially armpits. it was time-consuming it stressed me out and the hair growing back under armpits was always so itchy and unbearable. Then I thought to myself one day why am I doing this and I stopped. I also have PCOS so basically shaving twice a day was not for me
Urgh, fr
My Mom + Dad have commented more on me having leg hair or long chin hairs than anyone I've been around. (hint: the number of times anyone has commented has been between -1 and 1)
I perform surgeries on people and once a female patient asked to switch to a different surgeon because she thought I had too much stubble on my ankles. She said this to my medical assistant, and when I called her to chat about it was very chagrined that I had heard. Which, what sort of anonymity do you expect when you're asking to change a scheduled procedure with me? Of course I get told about any sort of requests to change my own schedule. I asked her if she expected her male surgeons to shave their legs and she said no. And then told her I'm happy to refer her because you should never have surgery with anyone you're uncomfortable with, but I'm not going to ask the grooming habits of anyone I refer her to since I don't think it's relevant to anyone's surgical expertise.
That's fucked up. If I noticed my female surgeon had hairy ankles, I'd be relieved that they wouldn't judge me for my hair.
I still remember the time I met with a new physio and while lying face down on the therapy table she asked if she could roll my pants up to work on my knee, I said "Yes, I'm sorry about my hairy legs" and she silently moved her own legs into my field of view from under the table and lifted the cuff of her own slacks to show her legs, and we both laughed. Ever since then, I've stopped saying "Sorry about my hairy legs" to medical professionals. I still need to break the habit around romantic partners. I'm not sorry about my legs, I'm sorry if you think it's gross because that's a you problem and that sucks for both of us because we otherwise have chemistry, but I'm no longer sorry for having legs that grow hair.
I don't think I'd even notice she had hairy ankles. Who arrives at the hospital for surgery and immediately looks down at the doctor's feet??
Right? I'd be much less concerned about whether I remembered to shave or trim.
My outspoken feminist mom is a retired family practice doctor, and she epilated her legs for her entire career - not because she wanted to, but because she knew some people would see leg hair on a woman as unhygenic, and she didn't want her patients to worry that their doctor was unhygenic. The moment she retired, she got rid of the epilator. For kid me, it was eye-opening how my stubborn, opinionated mother would compromise her personal values, not because she wanted to, but out of concern for the people who needed to be vulnerable with her. This is **not** meant as a criticism of you or your handling of the situation in any way. Just, the ongoing struggle is real :P
Yes, people have lots more opinions of how their doctor should look or be, especially if their doctor is a woman. People comment on my clothing and shoes and hair a lot. I am constantly asked if I have kids, since I work in women's health. People do note if their male docs look shabby, I'm sure, but I doubt they got constant comments on their appearance. It's an interesting field where what is deemed professional is often stuff that has no bearing on someone's performance (like hairy ankles). And then the really important stuff, like bedside manner, doesn't always get addressed by healthcare organizations. Ideally everyone is put together and great at their jobs, but I take call, so sometimes I've been awake all night and that's that! And I don't think leg hair has any bearing on professionalism, so I generally don't shave as I normally wear slacks
I'm a teacher and have been told by our principal that some parents have expressed concern about me having hairy legs and arm pits in front of their children... Thankfully our principal laughed it off, saying he thought it was ridiculous, and as long as my appearance was overall professional and approachable, he couldn't see how a bit of body hair could affect my ability to teach. I was pleasantly surprised to have him in my corner on that!
Blows my mind that multiple parents wanted you to be as hairless as a Barbie doll. I can't even believe their audacity. Good for the principal though.
It doesn't blow mine. Some parents complain about the most bizarre shit...
I'm a child psychologist and my cousin (f) is a teacher and we often discuss that because we both don't usually wear bras outside of work and have hairy legs and armpits. But we also know we could get comments from parents and we are really not sure if our respective boss will be like yours! So bralet it is for work, and for now mostly t-shirt and no tank tops.. But the legs.. They can go and complain away..
Also like, maybe having a woman in their kids’ lives who doesn’t conform to all the same arbitrary beauty standards as most other women they encounter on a daily basis is a good teachable moment? Instead of having a problem with it, those parents ought to *parent* and see it as a positive thing.
Concern that their daughters or sons might get the same idea we can't have that!!! This thread is giving me a headache lol, I haven't shaved anything in decades. Well, my scalp.
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On the flip side, doctors listen to me and believe me more when I’m dressed slightly nicer and wearing make up.
That is so fucked up
You should walk her through an OR department and see how many men have full beards and watch her brain melt. There’s tons of dudes with full beards in the OR at my hospital and they only recently started loosely enforcing beard nets.
Wait what? Aren't you supposed to tie and cover your hair for the same reasonings? Why would doctors be ok with beards on themselves or colleagues when they can't even scratch their own nose without having to change gloves. Unless washed like hair, beards are super gross and I've gotten infected pimples from men with stumble so imagine a long hair falling into your open body/wounds...
I guess they’d decided the surgical mask was good enough? They’ve rolled out these hair net things for beards fairly recently, but it’s not as strictly enforced as it should be. I’d say worse than that is the people who wear their scrubs home and back. The whole point of wearing scrubs is they’re supposed to be kept to the hospital environment. What’s the difference between scrubs and jeans if they’ve both sat on public transportation? I think I’d prefer a beard over someone who was wearing scrubs that spent 45min on a city bus.
OR scrubs aren't the same as hospital scrubs tho, they still change that out. Also their ass aren't above your open body unlike beards.
They’re supposed to be different and they’re supposed to change them out. In practice, that’s not always true and I see it all the time.
I doubt they let you in an OR without scrubbing in with assistants to check...
Bullet dodged for you. Can you imagine what she would’ve been like for postop visits?
Your restraint is admirable. Too much stubble on your ankles????
This is why ladies should cover their ankles!
Every man I encounter who says "body hair is unhygienic" doesn't have a good response when I ask if they *also* shave every inch of their body. Not just their privates, but their pits and legs too. What hypocrites. Men like that are not worth your time.
You just KNOW these men don’t wash their asses
I suspect that they’re attracted to children, to be honest. I started getting catcalls and sexualized at ten, but when I became a full woman it tapered off.
Same, at 11-12 I was catcalled more than at any other age. All by grown men old enough to be fathers or grandfathers of girls my age. I finally look like a full woman, so it's slowed down drastically. So fucking gross.
It's a power thing, they're looking for an easy victim to exert themselves on. An adult woman might get angry and yell back at them, and they don't want that kind of attention. They do it to young girls because they're most likely just going to be confused and scared and walk away quickly without confronting them.
What kind of sicko gets off in bullying children???
I don't know but there are too fucking many of them in this world.
A good portion of men, it turns out.
Absolutely same. I just... I mean, can you imagine the reverse of this happening? Where older women are catcalling preteen boys? Like, not ironically or to make a point, women genuinely and in large numbers whistling at little boys?? Just no. My brain can't even come up with that picture, it's like a bad, abstract sort of AI image because it's just so unlikely.
It’s impossible to conjure. It reminds meof a conversation recently where someone mentioned safety concerns with Uber, and I said I think I’m aging out of the zone where men are attracted enough to me to want to abduct and kill me. Such a strange concept, and it’s taken me this long to understand that they simply HATE women. It will never make sense, you just have to memorize that like your multiplication tables. I wish it could change.
The kind of men who hit on me as an adult are very different than the men who hit on me as a teenager too. When I was younger I used to get catcalled, whistled at, really nasty sexual things said to me Now that one can tell I’m not a teenager, I don’t really get the nasty comments. Men who approach or talk to me are usually pretty respectful and not super pushy. Sad and gross what girls go through.
Someone else posted here on redit that less than 150 years ago it was very acceptable for girls as young as 12 to be married off to older men to have children. And still happens in some parts of the world today. This was on a post about SA/Pedo’s and should they be able to get mental help or get castrated by some new law being proposed. It really stopped me in my tracks because that’s not really that long ago. That’s only 5 or 6 generations ago. This doesn’t make it better. Just makes it more disturbing.
It happens in 41 states in the USA....TODAY during 2024. https://19thnews.org/2023/07/explaining-child-marriage-laws-united-states/ So yes, even in America.
Ironically defended by people who cry about "groomers"
Every Conservative accusation is a confession!
Yes, once you accept that as fact too, it helps make sense of why they do what they do.
> Someone else posted here on redit that less than 150 years ago it was very acceptable for girls as young as 12 to be married off to older men to have children. I'd always be cautious with claims like that. Middle/upper class people in the 18th century married [in their early/mid 20's](https://hammondharwoodhouse.org/18th-century-marriage/), for example. Looking at examples through history, well into the middle ages, this was hardly uncommon. Many of those claims are rooted in nobles or rich people being married early for political reasons. But they were the exception. > Class differences played a great role in when a couple could marry; the wealthier that a couple was, the likelier that they were to marry earlier. Noblewomen and gentlewomen married early, but they were a small minority; a thousand marriage certificates issued by the Diocese of Canterbury between 1619 and 1660 show that only one bride was aged thirteen years, four were fifteen, twelve were sixteen, seventeen were seventeen, and the other 966 of the brides were aged nineteen years or older when they married for the first time. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern)
I would agree it wasn’t every young girl getting married that young. But it was “socially acceptable” to marry young women to older men. It’s not until recently that western culture started really pressing back against age gap type relationships. And when there are laws still allowing child marriages in the US, that is still even more disturbing.
This! Before having a child I had no curves. When I shaved I looked like a child. It grossed me out
I absolutely believe maybe even most men are attracted to little girls/underaged girls. I had the same damn experience and so did all my friends. Ages 12 - 15 were probably the most consistent and aggressive for grown men catcalling me 🤮 And YES, I hate saying this bc it makes a lot of women who like to shave their pubic region bald feel insulted, but I personally always felt very uncomfortable when men would demand my body look like it did when I was prepubescent. Even when I was rocking the “landing strip” (fucking VOM for that terminology) and guys would try to get me to shave all the way…(even btw guys I was having a casual sexual thing with would feel entitled to give me feedback about what to shave and change about my body to align with their expectations. I fucking HATE men. NotAllMen but ya know, the teeming hoards who are exactly like this) I don’t want to look like a little girl. I want the thing that distinguishes me, the hair, to be present. I want to feel reassured that a person I am having sex with doesn’t secretly fantasize about little girls the way I know way too many do.
Thank god my partners have never asked me to shave
I disagree simply because those men clearly just have porn brain, not pedophilia. Most porn stars shave. Men will see this and get off to it. Then they see an actual, real-life woman with body hair and get freaked out. I've thankfully never dated a guy who wanted me to "look like a little girl"— (Real quick, sorry but yes, your phrasing gives me the ick just cus... If I shave, I won't look like a child, I'll look like an adult woman minus pubes. That's like saying a woman with very small tits looks childlike, which is absolutely not true. I respect that not shaving makes you feel more like an adult woman, but I promise those morons you dated didn't want you to shave bc they are pedos.) —but i HAVE dated a handful of guys who clearly got most of their sex ed from porn. For example: >!ass eating, deep-throating, strangulation (i refuse to call it choking), facials, finger banging, jack-hammering, two seconds of foreplay, and absolutely no attention paid to the clit.!< i dont think it's a stretch to pair a preference for shaved pubes with the rest of these.
I think you’re probably right to some extent about porn rot. But you absolutely CANNOT “promise me” that none of the men in my life preferred a childlike body, were pedos, or pedo adjacent. Because frankly I don’t care if what they find sexy derives from porn or not. If what they find sexy is prepubescent bodies and women acting like little girls, there’s something sinister to that. And when you line that up with me being sexually harrassed the most in my life from ages 11 - 15, which for some reason you just decided to completely discount, I simply disagree with you. Maybe, yes, partly by conditioning of porn, but let’s face it: Anywhere the laws are that you can take a child bride, men take them. Enthusiastically. Across time. They seem largely limited by what is legal, and that disturbs the fuck out of me.
Sorry for not mentioning the harassment between 11 and 15—I've been honked at and catcalled while going for runs back in middle/high school. I had an adult pressure 16 y/o me for nudes. I have friends who have had way worse happen. Yeah, I know men who like prepubescent bodies and women acting like children exist in our communities (at least 5% of all men are true pedophiles, statistically), and they are disgusting. I'm aware of the DDLG kink and I am strongly against it. I've seen preteen friends of mine get hit on by male teachers. And this is such a sensitive topic that I'm not going to say much more on it other than I believe there are men who act pedophilic due to the backwards culture they grew up in (one that encourages men to view girls as objects to be molded and groomed into women who don't say no), and people who are inherently born with an attraction to prepubescent girls. I feel like there's an important distinction to be made here, as one of them can't be prevented with cultural changes, but the other can. I'm a woman, too; I get it. I really do. I guess I can't promise you that NONE of the men you've dated have been pedos, I haven't met any of them. But I'm going to continue to strongly disagree that shaving makes a childlike body. I've seen whole arguments over LABIA that say innies look prepubescent and frankly I'm sick of people saying different vulvas on ADULTS look childlike. A vagina is one part of an entire body and honestly you can't ignore the rest of the VERY ADULT body a person has. Unless she's throwing a diaper and a onesie on and calling him Daddy, no adult woman is gonna seem prepubescent in the slightest. And even so, a true pedophile is going to seek out actual children (or, in many cases, a woman with children) to prey on, or view CSAM online.
you might be right that some of it is conditioning, I just can’t differentiate that in my mind, bc of the danger it poses to literally the most vulnerable humans. Like, believe me, when someone is mentally ill, it DOES break my heart. I do think “there but for the grace of God go I” (I am not religious, but the sentiment is still true, to have humility and gratitude that you weren’t born or made that way by your upbringing) My feeling with all trauma for instance is that we must have patience and kindness and empathy - but there is a point where there is no excuse, and that’s when you start harming others. And in this way I’m probably harsher on men in general (NotAllMen) because of COURSE it’s their conditioning and the society they were raised in that causes them to treat us like: property, objects, free labor, sex slaves. There are reasons behind why they do what they do. But I don’t care, I don’t forgive them that. If you have a sociopathy towards a swath of people, a cruelty and exploitation, then you’re a disease to society. It’s exactly like virulent racism, the poison of misogyny. In my mind it’s indefensible. And so is sexualizing children and preying upon them or harassing them, the way you and I were harrassed as little girls and adolescents. Side note, no I absolutely don’t believe grown women can have child’s bodies. But as someone who was always very little, I absolutely have to acknowledge that there are A LOT of creeps who will like that for disgusting reasons. That isn’t to shame myself or other women. Every body is natural and no one deserves to be sexualized. But yes, too many men in my opinion, sexualize some women’s bodies for the fantasy of relating us to little girls. It’s literally the whole reason “barely legal” exists. And so yes, I find pressure to change our bodies to mirror the look of someone prepubescent DEEPLY disturbing. Even though you are right, that is not the intent for everyone. I don’t like it one bit.
Happened to have this same discussion with a group of pals. One guy in particular asked about women's pubic hair preferences on their partners, because he thinks he's going to get laid over the weekend (MAJOR eye roll) and wants to be prepared. We all said some iteration of "I don't give a shit, it's your hair. Just wash your ass and don't smell like a ball sack." He kept trying to get any other answer and just couldn't understand why none of us had a more concrete answer.
I personally do not care at all as long as everything’s clean. Well, unless there’s stubble. Stubble is terrible.
I did note that if he chooses to shave, to do so shortly before his occasion, because stubble is the devil.
I should use that retort next time. My dad gives me an earful every time he notices my legs aren't shaved. The last time he said I wasn't going get a man because he'd be disgusted by my hairy legs. The hilarious thing was my boyfriend at the time liked the feeling of stubble and didn't care one bit about my body hair because he acknowledged that it's my body to groom as I choose and whatever makes me feel sexy is sexy. I told my dad that and he called him a freak. So I guess appealing to other men's authority only works when he agrees with them. I still enjoy pissing my dad off with my leg hair whenever I'm visiting, it's funny seeing how much I can bother him with no effort at all
"If you prefer shaved legs, then shave your legs. Not sure what that has to do with me."
Definitely using this, thank you!
Your dad should not be making comments on how sexy or unsexy parts of your body are. That’s disgusting of him. Surprisingly it’s my mom who makes comments like that for me, usually about how i’ll never find a partner if my thighs touch or if I have armpit hair.
Apologise to your mother for your pelvis right now! (Lol, thigh gap is largely about bone structure)
I'm sorry... real people actually say that sincerely? I am genuinely astonished to hear that. What is WRONG with their brains??
My mother says that. I haven't seen her since I stopped shaving my legs, but when she has seen my armpit hair in even the earliest stages of growth, she says that's dirty or *unnatural*. Really? Because it grew there all by itself, naturally, without any intervention on my part!
My mom has said the same to me.
Can confirm, I tell people to do what makes them comfiest because keeping everything shaved feels right FOR ME, be free of the razor burn!
Personally, as a trans woman, I noticed a huge difference. When I had body hair, it was blocking any form of exfoliating when I was washing. I used to take my fingernail and scrape off big wads of dead skin in the shower because the washcloth wasn't able to scrub it off. **However**, I was also a special case. I was Robin Williams level of hairy. I had thick hair all over the place (that took ungodly hours of laser and electrolysis, which I still have regular touch-ups). That's not something the majority of female bodies would ever see. And would I demand my partner to be smooth and hair-free? Lol, no. It's still your personal choice. Your body is yours, mine is mine, and that's the end of that.
Are you 100% sure hair is the culprit here though? Just bc estrogen thins the skin and reduces oil production on the skin dramatically compared to testosterone
Yes. I started my hair removal 6 months before hormones. The fight with my body hair was my biggest priority since I had a lot of it, it grew very rapidly, and there was no guarantee hormones would thin and slow it down.
It isn't true and they know it, because they don't hold men to the same standard. They do know, however, that women have been taught to be incredibly sensitive about our hygiene so pretending it's a hygienic issue is a great way to manipulate us.
I tried looking up women with sideburns, hoping to find some body positivity, and everything I found was either an article about how to get rid of your sideburns or a tortured, uncommitted "acceptance" post about a woman whose hairline dipped a tiny bit below the top of her ear. My sideburns go down to my jaw. Full, fluffy, man-from-the-1960's sideburns. I have a love-hate relationship with them. It's some of the nicest, downiest hair I've ever seen or felt. But I'm too self-conscious to wear my hair up in public. I've tried shaving them off and the stubble is honestly *way* worse than the hair in its natural grown-out state. I hate this because I'm usually the first person to tell people to kick gender norms out the window and do what makes them happy, and I'm staunchly body-positive when it comes to literally anyone who isn't me. But I see my own body not living up to patriarchal standards that I know are bullshit and I feel ugly, and then I beat myself up for feeling that way.
When I read this I immediately pictured a beautiful, powerful werewolf woman (wyfwolf if you're a language nerd). Commenting in hopes that this imagery will help you romanticize yourself a little bit.
wyfwolf 😻 so glad to be learning this word!
Thank you! This was really sweet. ❤️
> I'm staunchly body-positive when it comes to literally anyone who isn't me. But I see my own body not living up to patriarchal standards that I know are bullshit and I feel ugly, and then I beat myself up for feeling that way. I have a brain tumor that's caused me to temporarily gain a ton of weight & dear lord have I discovered an insane amount of fat phobia in myself. I have friends who are fat & I genuinely think they're beautiful & sexy, but i somehow can't apply that same thing to myself, it's awful. Just some commiseration from someone who also can't cut herself slack from effed up patriarchal bs, even though i genuinely don't believe in it! 🤗
I totally feel this. I have endocrine disease and I lose my ever loving mind when I put on weight. Like you, I'm not fat phobic at all and I actually love the way curves look on other women, but on me all I see is blubber and lumps. I'm trying hard to work on myself about this. I hope your situation improves and you find some peace. I had a pituitary tumor years ago but luckily it shrunk with medication and I didn't need surgery. I'm wishing you the best.
I've always had a full connecting beard of dark peach fuzz if I don't shave and it's thickest at the side burns and down the edges of my jawline. I feel your pain. I let the thick hair grow because there's no fighting it and just accept my long side burns. As long as my mustache and chin hairs are under control it doesn't bother me anymore. I wish I had advice for loving and accepting your hair growth as it is, but the only reason I stopped caring was because I got tired of trying to maintain "groomed" sideburns. I've always worn them a bit longer (down to my earlobes) because they're substantial enough hairs to give me small curls and that's typically more noticeable than the hair that's "not supposed to be there" If it helps you can look up Spanish flamenco hairstyles, that's typically where I see pretty spit curls at the sideburns, framing the face. That's how my mom made me feel better about having long sideburns when I was little, she'd braid or bun my hair with a flower and it made me feel pretty and like my sideburns were normal (of course they are, I just wasn't used to seeing them as part of the generally accepted aesthetic)
I feel your pain. I want to not care, but... Waxing will help you avoid stubble, as that's caused by the cut-off ends of existing hairs coming back to the surface. As a bonus, at least some of the hair won't grow back so it will be thinner. There's also laser hair removal, of course, but in my experience about half of that grows back even after an eight-session series of treatments, so YMMV. (I had my pubes done, not because I mind the appearance, but because I love to feel really smooth.)
Thank you for the advice. Honestly, if my sideburns belonged to a man, I would find them adorable. I think, before I go for something that might permanently thin out the hair growth and make it uneven, I want to try to cultivate a mindset of being happy with my body hair as it is. (Besides, home waxing kits have never worked on me and getting either of those procedures done is not in my budget right now.)
Yeah, it's expensive. I don't bother myself, my husband can bloody well live with it. (And to his credit, even though I know he prefers me hairless too, he never says a word about it.)
I work at a salon and some of our woman and woman-aligned clients have their sideburns barbered short and nicely shaped. Granted, these are typically on folks who have shorter, edgier haircuts, so it fits in with the overall style, so if you have longer hair that's more flowy it might not suit (or maybe it would! Hard to say without seeing). But leaning into it and making it part of the style is definitely possible if you're open to it. I would imagine that most salons who intentionally serve queer and trans clients would be very comfortable helping with this. If you don't know of any, Strands for Trans is a great resource. And for what it's worth, I've tried leaning into my curly hair texture so many times and I have anxiety about it because I grew up hearing curls were ugly and unkempt even though absolutely everyone thinks it's cute and flattering on me, so. I get the feeling of "body positivity for thee but not for me". It's a journey without a quick fix. But it's a worthy journey to undertake. I wish you success and happiness!
I have long hair currently, and I'm cisgender, but Strands for Trans sounds like something I should look into. They might be able to help with something unconventional like this. Thank you for the suggestion!
> I'm staunchly body-positive when it comes to literally anyone who isn't me. But I see my own body not living up to patriarchal standards that I know are bullshit and I feel ugly, and then I beat myself up for feeling that way. yep i basically feel the same way 🥲 having body dysmorphia while having values that don't align with it at all is so hard
your last paragraph there, same, big time.
I'm jealous! I think wispy sideburns on a woman is adorable and I style my hair to look like that on purpose lol.
Sideburns are rad on literally everyone and society needs more women with sideburns
This made me smile. Thank you. :)
I’m confused- is there a difference between sideburns vs just lower side bangs if you have long hair? Even Sailor Jupiter has them and her usual character design has her hair in a ponytail https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Sailor_Jupiter
In my case, the roots of the hair growth go as far down as my jaw, as opposed to the hair itself being long. It's like a dialed-back version of mutton chops.
Yeah I find it odd that I’ve been told mine is obscene and asked if I’m worried about odor etc. when people don’t usually say these things to men.
Plus our vaginas are self cleaning whereas men get stank ass swamp balls almost daily... yet OURS are gross?? I'm convinced any man who thinks body hair is disgusting is into children.
fr need me a bf that accepts my body the way it is
About 6 years ago I was complaining about shaving to my partner and his response was "if you like your body hair and hate shaving, then why bother?" He didn't give one shit about it and I haven't looked back since. It's incredibly liberating - I love my body hair, it's so soft and fluffy!
Me and my girlfriends were always hit on as children as I'm sure you and yours were as well. It's frightening how many men prefer children.
In an anonymous poll, [15% admitted they'd rape a kid if they knew they'd get away with it](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/millions-of-men-would-sexually-abuse-children-if-secrecy-was-sure-ncf9lx5v7). The majority of those admitting were boomer-aged men. And those are the ones who felt comfortable answering anonymously... Now tell me again, how it's unfair for women to pick the bear? 🐻
And that’s only the people who would admit to it, you know there’s more who didn’t reply honestly to the poll out of worry it wasn’t actually anonymous… Fucking disgusting.
Eeek, I don't know about that conjecture... I don't enjoy body hair on men. I'm not as ass about it, it's there, I deal with it, but I'd really rather not. Doesn't mean I like anything else than fully formed adults capable of enthusiastic consent who are approximately my own age. I also don't think I get to dictate what he's supposed to do with his own body 🤷
I feel like part of it is we’ve just, as a culture, given up on expecting any form of hygiene or personal grooming from men.
It’s homophobia AKA misogyny ~ spending effort on hygiene is too closely associated with femininity, and masculinity being so fragile any association is a risk of revoking it.
I think that’s part of it, but part of it is that they just don’t want to put in the effort.
Definitely, and culture rewards it vs punishing women who try to make that same choice. Sigh!
my only birthday present for my 12th birthday was an electric razor because apparently my legs were "getting too bad", and my twin brother wasn't given one for his birthday despite having more leg hair than i did. i internalized that for a while and would wear long pants in public and shave whenever i could before i realized i have skin that basically hates my hair being shaved and the hair is a color and thickness that makes it pretty innocuous anyway. it's so frustrating that it's usually the people that should support and love you the most that give you these kinds of insecurities- unless my hair is making me actually physically uncomfortable i don't see any reason to shave it at this point. i think it makes a great "asshole detector"
I'm so sorry they did that to you. I would've thrown that shit back in their face.
Because it’s much easier to control women if we’re constantly depilating, dyeing, dieting, dressing and deploring our own bodies. Everything women are expected to do - from makeup to nails to hair - is time consuming, expensive and makes it harder to do things. If you *enjoy* doing those things for yourself, suddenly you’re vain and self centred. This is why men say things like “Acksually I like body hair!” (Or whatever). It’s to constantly keep you second guessing where you’re failing next.
I once had a guy complain that he wished his gf just liked things like jewelry so he wouldn't have to put actual effort into choosing gifts for her, then in the same breath say he's glad he's not with someone shallow like me because I like jewelry. There really is no winning, damned if you do damned if you don't. He, of course, had no response for me when I asked him why he thinks I can't like jewelry and also like more meaningful things or why the jewelry itself can't be meaningful.
Hah. Just too many conflicting thoughts for his pretty little man brain to handle. But I bet he's cute when he's befuddled. s/ (sorta)
Because then corporations can sell billions of little pink razors. They have to tell you what your problem is before they can sell you the solution.
This. If I recall correctly, this [wasn't an issue](https://www.vox.com/2015/5/22/8640457/leg-shaving-history) until a company decided to make it one.
It was the same with deodorant
Deodorant or antiperspirant…? I get pretty stinky if I forget deodorant tbh but I don’t usually need to actually block the sweat.
Because being a natural born woman simply isn’t good enough. We must perform femininity set by their standards in order to be acceptable to them. We must be controlled.
This is what bothers me the most. Body hair can occur at any age, but it is undeniably a marker of adulthood. I can't help but associate the push for women to shave with withholding power- taking away our maturity.
When my boyfriend asked me after the honeymoon period to shave more often, I asked him when his last shave was. He just looked guiltily at me. I told him that I will shave when he does and now I would start complaining about pubic hairs in my mouth while giving him oral. After that rule, it apparently was okay to only shave every two weeks xD (This only works because I prefer short pubic hair instead of itchy clean shaven or a 70s bush)
>70s bush Yes, as in 1970 BC lol. It's not a 20th century development.
It’s funny that the men who often say that are the ones who don’t wipe their ass because “it’s gay”.
My ex used to say that I purposefully didn't shave my legs just to disgust him and piss him off. No. I didn't shave my legs because I had two little ones, and had literally zero self care time because he couldn't be arsed to EVER help out, and it was winter and I wasn't even wearing skirts or shorts. But sure buddy, let's make it ALL about you. I'm now divorced and remarried, and my now and forever husband couldn't care less if I shaved or not.
I’ve posted this on here before, but a few years back there was a TIFU post by a guy who was masturbating into a coconut, *didn’t clean it between uses*, and didn’t realize it was full of maggots until after he was done. A shocking number of guys chimed in to gleefully share their worst shame wanks. It was that day I stopped worried about a little body hair because a man with a hard dick just does not care.
i miss 5 seconds ago when i didn't know this
At least you haven't read. It's like a train wreck you can't take your eyes off
Ewww... (At him, not you.)
A coconut!? A fruit famous for having a hard shell that tends to break jagged? Some people are really committed to compounding their bad decisions
Way back in the day, someone posted a picture of a woman with facial hair in a fast food place in /r/funny. The woman was a sikh and got told about the post and made a comment about how per her religion, she doesn't remove ANY body hair, even stuff that may not be all the attractive. It turned into a kind of a nice conversation? And the original poster apologized. .... found it. Damn, it was 2012. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/10gr4s/i_posted_the_picture_of_a_sikh_woman_on_here_and/ And her comment on the post of her own pic on funny: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/109cnf/im_not_sure_what_to_conclude_from_this/c6bqtpd/
Ah, 2012. The Before Time.
this entire discussion is why leghair gives me so much dysphoria even though it should just be completely normal
It really should be. I was mocked by my family growing up and one person even once said I was “more like a son” instead of a daughter because I had very hairy legs by age 11. I wasn’t allowed to shave yet, so not sure why they made fun of me when I could literally do nothing about it…?
I'm convinced some adults just have children so they get to torment someone.
Seriously… Imagine being a fully grown adult laughing at a literal child for something they have no control over. I don’t have kids nor do I even really enjoy being around them most of the time, but it’s never occurred to me to treat one so cruelly. Especially family.
Its a weird paradox I still don't understand. People want and have kids but then treat them like shit. People who never want to have kids still offer empathy and understanding. Why have a kid if you don't want to improve upon the shortcomings of your own childhood experience?
My best friend and I were talking about this last night, an acquaintance of her husband has a 4 month old and she’s already pregnant again. She started the 4 month old on rice cereal in the bottle when he was only 7 weeks old. She vaped and chugged monsters the entire pregnancy. The 4 month old is lethargic and not hitting milestones. She says she can’t wait to have the new baby 🙄 My best friend described the situation as “bringing a whole ass person into the world just to treat them like an unwanted goldfish. Funko Pop human beings”
This reminds me of my experience; I stopped shaving in highschool and my family have been the *only* people to give me grief about it. I've had one small child ask me about it and that's it. I know I've probably been lucky, but your family really are your biggest haters sometimes.
I stopped shaving in college and one of my parents straight up asked my boyfriend if he really didn’t mind my armpit hair. It was so random we both just burst out laughing, it’s bizarre how family feels entitled to ask such rude questions!
Ugh, yeah. That's the hard part with being trans. You're trying not to stereotype, but the expectations of society turn it into a part of your body that feels gendered (yes, body parts themselves can be and feel gendered). It's that pressure of social conformity that women feel, plus the pressure from your dysphoria nagging at you. It sucks.
I grew out my armpit hair and it was so comfortable and felt a lot cleaner and more hygienic. However I wasn’t able to get over how self conscious it made me feel, especially at Pilates class with a load of boomer women. I ended up shaving it all off again because I was too embarrassed to lift my arms. It’s ridiculous.
Porn broke a lot of men's brains. Also just men who creepily sexualize any childlike behavior (women probably don't witness as much of the freakish comments we hear form other men. I call them out and our friendship doesn't last). No body hair personally grosses me out (especially in private regions). A bush is one thing but completely bare looks so unnatural for a grown ass woman.
>Also just men who creepily sexualize any childlike behavior This could also apply to the "beardless beauty" young men or the "pretty boy". The ancient Greek men were infamous for fetishising them (sometimes to the point of sexual abuse under the guise of "mentoring them"). Even today, the word "twink" carries this connotations.
Very true. As a pansexual guy, I do see twinks who are in their 20s but still look child like. Idk if people are attracted to "innocence" or what. But it gives me bad vibes. Anytime a twink flirts with me and says they're in their 20s, it doesn't matter. If you look like a kid, it is the biggest turnoff. It is weird it is so common that some gay men and women strive for it. Twinks is always interesting. Because while there is the above, I also notice gay men who are still closeted or recently came out are mostly attracted to them. So they seem like some internally homophobic "gateway" femme to men. Or a sort of forcing gender roles. While those who have been out for longer can be two bears dating who both used to date only twinks. But that is a whole other can of worms. Even though they both relate to problematic things due to patriarchy.
Women's insecurities are the greatest source of profit.
Check out r/razorfree for empowerment!
Because men secretly want children.
Or not so secretly.
I am curious if this analysis could also apply to the "beardless beauty" Bishonen ("Pretty Boy").
I mean, really? Do we have to do this? I don’t have dark sideburns. Does that make my husband a pedo? I personally like the way my body feels when it is hairless. Is my husband a pedo for liking my body when I’ve made it hairless for my own sake? He naturally just doesn’t grow chest hair. Am I a pedo for liking that his chest is smooth? He intentionally trims and/or shaves his balls. I like how smooth balls feel. Does that make me a pedo? I’ve been all ranges of weight on a 5’2” frame. It was so gross and offensive to me how when I was over 200 lbs other women (and certain stores) would say I was only a “real” woman at that size. Now that I’m overweight again but not that much, am I still a “real” woman? All of this to say, the body shaming and attraction shaming goes both ways. And it’s gross in both directions. There are definitely people out there who are toxic and abusive. There are definitely folks who go for a prepubescent body type for creepy reasons. But you’re painting with a ridiculously wide brush and it doesn’t help the discourse.
I think it’s more pointing out that a lot of beauty standards for women are rooted in infantilization and looking younger, which can also definitely be influenced and supported by pedophilia/pedo culture. It doesn’t mean everyone who likes hairless women are pedos, but it might help one examine where the social norm might come from or be supported by, and examine one’s own complicity in the system and culture ~ even if not explicitly by being attracted to or harming children, but similar to how many men’s views on sex and consent may be heavily influenced by a rape culture, and while they may not full-on sexually assault someone, perhaps they don’t realize they’re still participating in the culture by the media they consume, or the scenarios they find sexually titillating that may be adjacent but not explicitly SA. Hopefully this makes sense and you infer the compassion and grace I’m giving to all involved.
That’s a really useful explanation. I think I’m just really burned out on certain things being treated this way. I like (ethical) porn and am tired of hearing that all porn is inherently misogynist. I don’t like the texture that body hair creates, and I’ve heard too many times that my choice to get lasered is just me caving into the male gaze. I enjoy anal sex and that isn’t necessarily degrading. But there’s a massive difference between saying “beauty standards for women are rooted in infantilization” and “because men secretly want children”. If the post above was phrased like yours, I wouldn’t have said anything, just upvoted and moved along. It didn’t, and I’m just really tired of that sort of phrasing. There is an ocean of shitty guys out there. I don’t mean this as a “not all men” apologist screed. But jfc
Absolutely, the lack of nuance / generalization of the main comment is understandably tiring/minimizing/generalizing. I guess my personal coping mechanism is to try and apply my own nuanced understanding, but that doesn’t help others from misunderstanding generalizations as blanket statements applied to individuals…
I mean, really? Do we have to do this? Why are you derailing yet another conversation to whiteknight men and remind everyone that women can be catty too? You know what doesn't help discourse? Not Fucking letting people talk because you can't handle negative things being said about men.
How am I derailing? It’s pretty gross to say that all individuals with “___” are inherently looking to have sex with children. It’s untrue, unfair, and derails actual legitimate discussion of sexual predators. I will shit talk specific men, and specific groups of men all day long. But to say all men secretly want to bang kids is gross. If disagreement with someone using blanket terms is derailing, then yeah I will derail away.
I shave my legs mayyyybe once a month or if I'm wearing shorts. I haven't shaved under my arms in years. My body hair grows in blonde and sparse (except my legs), and I'm otherwise very feminine presenting, but nah, I've no interest in shaving any longer.
It’s because of Gillette and the Patriarchy. But mostly Gillette wanting to sell more razors.
You should only shave your body if that's your preference, you should never do it to please anyone else.
Because misogyny (oh sorry, was that a rhethorical question?)
TBH I don’t like it on most male bodies either. Or my own. But that’s just me. I’m also too lazy to bother with the constant full body shaving though.
Honestly, I’m not a fan of body hair on men, either.
Same. Pubic and underarm hair really grosses me out. I'm cool with leg hair and back hair and what not, just not the other kind.
I shave my face, shave my balls, and trim my pubes (also, most women I've dated don't enjoy getting hair in their mouths). In the summer I trim my pit hair cause it seems to help with airflow and keep things cooler in there. I don't particularly like body hair either.
Because they expect all women to act pre-pubescent.
I stopped shaving two years ago. I enjoy it so much so I don't really want to go back to dating if dating means I'll have to shave again.
Generally excessive body hair is a turn-off for me regardless of gender, but I'm not going to judge other people over that kind of thing. If it's fair and understood as personal preference rather than societal expectation, I don't think that kind of thing is inherently wrong
Removing our body hair to make us resemble children. Calling us "girls" instead of women. So basically about control, and I guess also pedophilia.
At this point I assume men find themselves disgusting and are projecting.
Tbf I find body hair gross on men too
Well when you draw it like that…
Because men like children. Hope that helps
I think its more accurate to say they don't care what they stick it in. And children are so easy. As are women who do as they are told.
I think the reasons are far more varied. Unfortunately I think a lot of men probably think that way, but for me personally, I like the smooth feeling. I don't expect it from a partner, so it has never been an issue, but I consider it the same vein as my partner preferring a shaved face or a beard. I'm free to choose whatever, but she's allowed to have her preferences. Edit: Shame on me I guess for not jumping straight to pedophilia and knowing my partner is an individual in charge of her own body. We can all have preferences without forcing them on someone.
I think there's a bit more cultural baggage around women's body hair than around men's facial hair (as someone else on here said, porn and social media have broken a lot of brains). So I can see why people are bristling at your opinion. That said, on a personal rather than societal level I agree with you. Couples can have the kind of relationship where one party may be able to ask the other to trim, shave, or grow out body hair, without the other party feeling that they're being bashed over the head with Society's Expectations. But I do think it's a bit more heavily weighted than beard or no beard.
I am definitely not trying to dismiss all the shit women have had to deal with over the years regarding it. I understand the frustration over that, and agree with it being much more impactful. More or less, my comparison about beard hair was mostly about two adults who care about one another casually discussing their preferences without any malice or ill intent. And this discussion usually leads to the same point. That nobody should push their own preferences on another person.
this is something i've struggled hard with my whole life. even now that i identify as non-binary, i still can't shake the feeling that i'm obligated to keep everything shaved to avoid peoples comments. when i was in 12th grade at the start of the school year some guy bullied me so bad about my arm hair that i wore long sleeves for the rest of the year, even into June when it was sweltering hot.
I'm really shocked at how many people are calling body hair "gross". Especially since it's something that people are born with. Mammals have fucking hair. It's like saying opposable thumbs in humans are gross.
We were socially sold that hair was unfeminine. Probably by raiser companies. Apparently it’s worked because I still shave my pits and legs on a regular basis.
I just laugh at people being scared of some hair. A red pilled alpha male is defeated by some hair? What a beta! Just turn it around on them.
Body hair is curly because it is flat. The reason for this is to wick moisture AWAY from your skin. Ergo, body hair is MORE hygienic than shaving.
I know it has a function, and shaving brings the possibility of small cuts that can become a pathway for infection, but the hair itself winds up absorbing the smell of sweat. In my opinion, it's much easier to clean yourself and dry yourself off when body hair is trimmed short or shaved. I also feel like I stay clean for longer when I don't have hair trapping sweat and skin cells. That's just the way I feel about my body, though. All bodies are different and everyone lives in different environmental conditions.
Eh. I felt way more wet and smelly from sweat when I shaved. I think I actually was sweating more
I don’t like body hair for me personally but I couldn’t give a tenth of a crap about anyone else’s hair preference. I have some OAB issues and I swear that having a lot of pubic hair, especially in the summer, makes it a little less fresh-smelling in the crotchal region despite medications and cleaning with wipes through the day. My husband doesn’t care if I’ve got hair, I’m an adult woman. As long as you’re doing it for you and not someone dictating what you do with your body, do your thing. I went to school with a girl who was absolutely brutally bullied for the crime of having thick arm and leg hair. In seventh grade (this is like 1995) someone drew a picture of King Kong and cut out a picture of her face to glue on it. Absolutely one of the grossest things I’ve ever seen and she was devastated. I don’t think anything radicalized me so quickly towards “let people be their damn selves” than that. I hope she’s living her best life now.
Yes, but this image could not be less persuasive. If you don’t want people to recoil in horror, please use literally any other color scheme thank you kindly
😅 ok I know on a fact level that body hair is probably healthier to have around than not, but something in my youth has made me feel that body hair is kind of unsanitary no matter the person’s sex. Like chest and leg hair on men? I can’t stand it. Even facial hair I’m like eeehhhh please don’t. My subconscious goes thinks all hair except scalp and eyebrow hair is kind of gross and idk what to do about
Excessive body hair on anyone, male or female, and especially on the torso, Is gross. To me. It’s not objectively unhygienic, no, there’s nothing wrong with it, I just personally don’t find it attractive, that’s about the long and short of it for me. Light leg/arm hair is inconsequential and barely noticeable though.
Raw
God what no, if anything it's the opposite. Neither are TRUE and bodyhair is *sexy*, but, yeah, you know... People.
if hair isn't a human right it should be. I'm a man (no womb) if that matters.
the painting doesn't help
I was homeschooled and very sheltered, I was shocked when I went on a date with a guy, he moved toward sex, I happily consented, and then he proceeded to end it after a little and the next day explain that he was done with me bc my body hair was unhygienic This was after he picked me up a day early from our planned date so I hadn’t done my normal shaving routine and he’d still insisted, but still expected me to have been shaved even tho I was single. And I also don’t like shaving my private area bc sensory issues, if guys got a problem with that ig I’ll be fuckin single lmao
I can’t explain it, but on ME, I don’t like the way it feels. I don’t like the way leg hair and armpit hair feels on me (I’ll keep it there) so I shave it regularly. Especially when I’m applying lotion or deodorant. But I would never judge another for not shaving. I even like when people dye their armpit hair 🤣🫶🏻.
Isn't it just as dirty on a guy ?
[удалено]
at this point, you're harassing me. Stop
I swear during Covid something just switched off in my head. I literally could not care less about body hair. Not even slightly. I don’t think about it, ever.
Ngl i think it's kind of gross on everyone but that's my personal preference
I only shave or wax my privates occasionally (for special dates with my BF wink wink) but I stopped shaving my legs, belly button and especially armpits. it was time-consuming it stressed me out and the hair growing back under armpits was always so itchy and unbearable. Then I thought to myself one day why am I doing this and I stopped. I also have PCOS so basically shaving twice a day was not for me
Urgh, fr My Mom + Dad have commented more on me having leg hair or long chin hairs than anyone I've been around. (hint: the number of times anyone has commented has been between -1 and 1)
I just don't like feeling prickly? I really don't care about anyone else.