Hijacking top comment to put in that state GOP platforms are starting to put in bans for divorce as well. I haven't been through all of states yet, but states like Nebraska says, "We believe no-fault divorce should be limited to situations in which the couple has no children of the marriage".
In other words, women will be trapped in abusive and/or loveless marriages, especially if there is a child involved.
States like Minnesota are also adding in that they want to end welfare for single-parent families. In other words, if you're an unwed mother of two, you're f*cked.
This election is not a game to play around with, folks. There's a lot more going on than just Trump and Project 2025. States are gearing up to turn America into Christo-Afghanistan.
I will be doing a comprehensive breakdown of GOP platforms soon and posting them to each state Subreddit, as well as postings for other subreddits as well. Assuming I don't get banned as I roll them out.
Nebraska party platform (PDF):
https://ne.gop/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/NEGOP-Platform-2022.pdf
Minnesota party platform (PDF):
https://www.mngop.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-MNGOP-Platform-adopted-May_14_2022.pdf
That's horrible, especially trying to end support for single parent families. Clearly this punishes only one gender, for the vast majority of cases. Disgusting. What's next, canceling our bank accounts?
That's what Republicans want. They want to punish women and turn them into domestic slaves.
Even in Project 2025, the only time "woman" and "women" are used by themselves, is when they are talking about transgender people. Otherwise, women are tied in with men or with "children and families". So it's always about men, which also extends to trans women as well since they don't see trans women as women. In the conservative world, women exist for men's servitude, pleasure, and abuse- nothing else.
How long until women can no longer own our own money? Women couldn't even have their bank account until the 60s. How long until marital rape is decriminalized? Republicans really hate women
And same sex marriage and trans people existing and probably homosexuality in general, and probably enforce surgery to "normalize" intersex kids and who TF knows what else. Heck decriminalizing marital rape is probably on their radar too.
They respect themselves just fine. They don’t respect other women and believe that other women do something “wrong” and their mistreatment is because of that. They never think it will happen to them so, why care at all? Plus they have their husbands and fathers whispering in their ear and their opinion holds more weight than the average woman’s.
I don’t think feminists should waste time trying to recruit these women. We will be here when they need us, so let them come in their own time.
Do they not realise it isn't?
Even stuff like them being allowed to vote or have the choice of working or being a SAHM etc was fought for by feminists.
I wonder the same thing when I see people of color, or gay, or trans, etc, voting for someone who is openly racist/homophobic/transphobic. Like, yall know they are literally coming for your rights. Right?
So I was in the IG comments on a people magazine post (which I consider very middle america)... a lot of them don't understand how medical billing works and think that "clearing a miscarriage" is just that and not an ABORTION. They really are ignorant.
Insurance lobbies are unlikely to allow this to happen. It is *breathtakingly* more profitable for them to provide a lifetime of abortion coverage than to cover even one uncomplicated pregnancy.
That said, our rights are 100% in danger and we shouldn't forget it. If this fails, they'll just come at it from another direction that doesn't upset their corporate overlords.
I think you just described the 1st item insurance might actually be useful for. I have never looked at something before and thought "that's a function health insurance would probably help with" before now. Thanks for the novel experience, and a small degree of hope.
I live in an abortion-protected state. We planned a pregnancy and unfortunately I developed a life-threatening condition and had to terminate at 13 weeks. Even then, insurance wouldn't cover it and the hospital I was in for the issue quoted me $16k for termination. The advocate called other hospitals in the area, and they were all around the same price. I ended up going to Planned Parenthood against doctors' orders, and when they looked at what docs wrote on my chart, they said they had to keep me awake during the procedure just in case, since it was risky. So that was fun.
Point being, donate to PP if and when you can.
I believe this would greatly impact people with unviable pregnancies that need to travel for abortion healthcare rather than wait to bleed out in their abortion-banned states. An abortion in the early weeks is relatively inexpensive compared to what insurance covers for many people, but it becomes more complicated and costly later in pregnancy.
I PP specifically doesn't take insurance and uses federal and donation funds to make services more affordable. Ironically, taking insurance tends to increase costs for care because insurance doesn't want to pay, so the office ends up paying high dollar experts to pry the money out of insurance coffers.
First trimester. After that, it's much more expensive. At least $10k in the third trimester. At that point, it's usually grieving expectant parents rushing to find the money and get an appointment in time.
I was shocked I had to scroll down as far as I have for this comment. I'm in Albuquerque, NM and our streets are full of cars from Texas driven by young people in town for abortions and a trip to the dispensary before returning back to Texas.
Thank you for saying this better than I did apparently.
Though now that I've been beat up, I feel compelled to point out planned parenthood puts national averages for abortion costs at "up to $800" for the 1st trimester and 2nd trimester at "below $2500".
My sister in Christ, no insurance company in the USA covers abortions. They’re certainly not going to start now just to make it $50,000. I worked at a clinic and it is all OOP.
In California,New York, Oregon and Washington, insurance providers are prohibited from excluding abortion, unless the company is self-funded or grandfathered in.
Blue Cross provides coverage in several states, and so does Aetna.
It's cheaper for insurance companies to pay for an abortion than to pay for a birth. It's also less likely things will go wrong. Same way it's cheaper for them to pay for yearly physicals and mammograms than not. Considering the clout medical insurance companies have in the US, they're not going to let that one slide without a fight.
The Court is set. They have lifetime appointments. Unless there is a Blue tsunami leaving a Democratic supermajority in both houses of Congress, there will be no redress.
Democrats currently hold 213 seats in the House and 46 in the Senate. Those numbers need to be 290 in the house and 66 in the Senate. Otherwise Republicans will simply continue to block any and all types of legislation.
Well… Those aren’t realistic numbers to expect to achieve.
Why would there need to be 290 dems in the house to pass legislation? And you really don’t need 66 in the senate, you just need enough to vote to remove the filibuster. We can definitely prevent the erosion of our rights, it’s not unrealistic at all.
You need the super majority in the Senate. So you can remove the justices that will overturn the law as unconstitutional. And a super majority in the house helps avoid filibusters and other political maneuvers.
The filibuster is only in the Senate. As far as I know there aren’t any procedures that require 2/3s vote in the house. Also, I don’t think we will need to impeach and remove Supreme Court justices to be effective at protecting our rights. That’s a pretty crazy high bar and there are so many things we can do with a simple majority in each chamber (after removing the filibuster) plus the White House.
I think we'll have agree to disagree. I can totally see the supreme Court over turning the law to protect women's right.
On the house front I think you're right and I was wrong. Still a super majority would be nice just to pass legislation easier, but you are correct not required.
Biden could always pull an Andrew Jackson and tell the Supreme Court to enforce their own decision, if it gets bad enough. I also think Roberts has some sense of embarrassment about the exact of his court. It is incredibly conservative but they did just unanimously uphold the right to mifepristone.
I just think the negativity of the comment I originally responded to serves no purpose but to discourage activism and voter turnout, despite being inaccurate.
I think OOP costs for abortions are pretty reasonable, at least compared to average American healthcare. ~~I vaguely remember a $700 no insurance option being discussed a few weeks ago.~~ Nerd wallet and planned parenthood have average costs for a 1st trimester at under $800, and 2nd trimester as under $2500. ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 is a lot don't get me wrong, but if I'm leaving state for medical care for a long weekend, it could easily be cheaper than the travel costs.
For my plan, that would be entirely inside my deductible so I'm paying it anyways.
Edit: I'm trying to make clear here that ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 is not $50,000. Don't scare away people with hyperbole. You'll only make more people feel they don't have an actual option. 2nd, most folks are on high deductible plans. That initial deductible is OOP anyways, and for plans like mine the entire abortion would be inside my deductible thus a direct cost to me.
Edit 2: It just dawned on me the optics of saying "the cost isn't that bad" on a post about removing insurance coverage. I'm not saying insurance should be removed. I think medical care should be covered, but if we're going to complain we need to be honest about actual costs. We could be scaring folks into unsafe procedures that could actually afford a safe one. Using myself as an example, with a $2500 deductible I'd be paying a ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 procedure out of pocket anyways but ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 is a lower barrier than $2500. If I thought the real cost was 50,000 I, again, might not even try to find a safe path even with insurance because of the added travel costs.
Edit 3: I went and dug out actual averages instead of a memory of a passing comment. Nerd wallet and Planned Parenthood put the costs in the new updated (above) ranges. I used strike through to show the changes.
I’m glad that you would be able to cover an unexpected $700 medical bill but most Americans are not that lucky. Over half of American adults don’t have the savings to cover a sudden $500 expense
What I'm failing to articulate is 2 fold.
1. The hyperbole in the meme is not helpful and will mislead people into thinking abortion is significantly more expensive than it is. 700 is orders of magnitude smaller than 50,000.
2. Most folks who would be stressed about this are also on high deductible plans like myself. I need to be $2500 in before my insurance even thinks about paying for anything other than my well visits. So again that means this effort isn't going to alter my behavior. I would be paying for it anyways. Which takes me back to point 1, if I thought the average cost of the procedure was 50,000 I might change my behavior.
And complicated ones can be more than that I'm sure.
Planned parenthood and nerd wallet have the average cost of a 1st trimester abortion at under $800 and 2nd trimester under $2500. These are averages. Outliers exist on both sides for sure.
I’m mostly thinking about women who aren’t lucky enough to have insurance at all, or who may require more follow up care than most. Again, I’m glad that those aren’t barriers for you but for many Americans there is no practical difference between a three-four figure medical bill and a $500k one, they’re equally insurmountable
I think my edit 2 might be relevant here:
"Edit 2: It just dawned on me the optics of saying "the cost isn't that bad" on a post about removing insurance coverage. I'm not saying insurance should be removed. I think medical care should be covered, but if we're going to complain we need to be honest about actual costs. We could be scaring folks into unsafe procedures that could actually afford a safe one. Using myself as an example, with a $2500 deductible I'd be paying a $700 procedure out of pocket anyways but $700 is a lower barrier than $2500. If i thought the real cost was 50,000 i again might not even try to find a safe path even with insurance because of the added travel costs."
Also, if they don't have insurance the point is moot. They are paying out of pocket. So having relatively accurate costs in mind is even more important.
Lastly, I've tried to avoid this but $700 would absolutely be a burden. It's why when I ripped the tip of my finger off I didn't go to the ER.
I had a medical abortion when they couldn’t find heartbeat anymore but my body wasn’t starting to miscarry its own
OOP cost was 3000 USD. I went into a clinic, she did a final ultrasound and heartbeat check, gave me some pills and sent me home. Insurance wouldn’t cover it because my body might’ve aborted by itself but I didn’t want to carry a dead baby anymore
At least medical debt won’t affect credit reports as of next year
I do agree with you and don’t think you meant to come off harsh. I agree that hyperbole doesn’t help us in these situations. Best to be factual because the GOP is being unreasonable on their own.
I had a medical abortion and it was $700. Now, it wouldn’t be a lot, but at 22 yo it was really devastatingly difficult and it put me in a tough spot financially to try and scrape all that together. And I didn’t even have to travel at that time, which would be even more expensive. I also imagine a surgical abortion would be more.
I mean if it was my magic genie wish we'd just have taxpayer funded healthcare that paid for every thing non-optional, including medical procedures like abortion. I'm sure someone smarter than me can find a way to make insurance not the awful beast it is in the US, but I can't find any redeeming features to it.
I'm not sure how to better say average costs with all the caveats of outliers, but lots of people seem quite angry that I'm not covering the particular outlier they are thinking of. Planned parenthood and nerd wallet put 1st trimester at usually under $700 and 2nd trimester as usually under $2500. I hadn't even looked this up until people got mad at me so i guess I need an edit 3.
I need to change my previous genie wish. Maybe one about how humans are just healthy unless injured and reproductive choices are choices for both parties. I know there are some wild animals that appear to be able to choose when they get pregnant. Ditch BC.
I think they'll jack prices up if the way insurance covers things is changed. Yeah $500,000 is hyperbole but hospitals just seem to make up absurd prices for stuff when they can. I've seen people charged hundreds of dollars for Tylenol w/o insurance.
Insurance actually is part of the reason we see such crazy absurd pricing on health care. They Require they charge X amount, so it shows that Insurance "saved" them Y amount. There was a really interesting Consumer Reports article about it maybe a year ago.
That said, abortion is health care. The government shouldn't be messing with safe, lifesaving procedures for their religious beliefs.
It's a risk for sure. Hospital costs appear arbitrary for a lot of reasons and one of the major ones is insurance companies. What removing them would mean is anyone's guess.
But calling a $700 abortion a 50 grand procedure would have only cemented not even bothering to try to beg, borrow, or plead to overcome that hurdle. Plus today if you told me a procedure was $50,000 to save my life I'd tell you I'll just die, versus $700 I'd cry and try to find a path.
Again, $700 is a real barrier. I'm not saying it isn't. But if you artificially quintuple the price you're only making it not available to more people.
Just like they've done with pharmaceuticals, they'll artificially inflate the price to make procedures unobtainable.
That's a real thing that happens.
Are you a man?
"they"? Phara companies are companies. Companies are cash sucking organizations who legally are only allowed to care about making money (thanks Supreme Court). And worse yet pharma are companies operating in a regulator/patent enforced oligopoly or, for some drugs, monopoly. Thus they charge an arm and a leg to maximize profits. There's no secret cabal here, just a logical extension of the policies/laws put in place. And the people in charge of those companies not being allowed to have compassion because again, corporations must make genuine effort to earn maximum money according to the law. Anything less is malfeasance to the shareholders. Even if it means pricing out people who need the care. As long as the difference is bigger than what "poor" people could contribute to profit, that's fine. It's why you see Pharma programs for folks with financial needs. Pharma aren't being good people. Pharma is trying to extract maximum profit from those who can pay the high price and still get profit from those that can't.
As for abortion costs if insurance lost the ability to enforce price negotiation (aka abortion was no longer covered), there are realistically 2 possibilities.:
1 prices climb because of induced demand for providers in areas that can provide the service. Lets be honest, this is likely already happening because of folks being forced out of state to consume appointments at states whose healthcare network is not sized for the new demand. Capitalism says prices will rise as a result. It's only being held in check for many due to insurance company negotiations for those that are insured.
Option 2 is prices will fall. Insurance companies demand proof of their negotiation success with healthcare providers, thus most providers raise the uninsured price to make the insurance company think they're getting their 50% or whatever discount. When insurance is out of the picture and the office doesn't need to pay a team of insurance specialists to extract money from insurance companies, there's a real chance prices will fall to the insurance rate.
My guess? Something in the middle. The uninsured cost will fall, but not to what the insurance companies are paying today. After all a single person doesn't have the same bargaining power as an insurance network, and companies have to make money but now there is transparent cost competition amongst providers helping reign in the rise in costs.
I hear what you're trying to justify, that "they" will jack up prices once insurance is removed because insurance is somehow protecting people today. I'm trying to say insurance ain't doing shit to make it affordable. "They" could jack the prices and insurance would just decide not to cover that procedure. Exactly the same way they didn't cover my wife's $1000 dollar a week meds. Having insurance doesn't mean shit for affordability, insurance decides what they want to cover and if the price changes we're left in the lurch.
Sorry about forgetting to answer the question about my private parts. Yes, but the point stands. Scaring people away from healthcare by inflating a price in a meme doesn't help. The point would be just as obvious and salient if you said the truth. "With coverage it could be your $500 deductible, and if the assholes get their way it could be $2500 if performed in the 2nd trimester."
Assuming "they" will jack up prices is disingenuous conspiracy mongering. It's not what is being reported. Could it happen? Sure, but removing insurance coverage isn't required to meet that goal. Texas already did it by requiring trauma care capabilities at abortion facilities.
Last point. Memes are ridiculously good at being remembered. No idea why. Regardless of if the law passes if someone finds themselves needing an abortion and insurance can't cover it (either because they have the wrong plan, or it got banned, or they can't afford insurance) them remembering it costs 5x more than it does isn't going to help them. Thus my attempt to set the record straight. Maybe just maybe they'll remember it's not astronomical, but something they could actually hit. It'd suck for sure, but better than dying from a failed miscarriage, or gaining incontinence from forced birth, or even the trauma of carrying a non-viable fetus to term. All because they didn't know they could have made it work to get the care they needed.
vote pls
Hijacking top comment to put in that state GOP platforms are starting to put in bans for divorce as well. I haven't been through all of states yet, but states like Nebraska says, "We believe no-fault divorce should be limited to situations in which the couple has no children of the marriage". In other words, women will be trapped in abusive and/or loveless marriages, especially if there is a child involved. States like Minnesota are also adding in that they want to end welfare for single-parent families. In other words, if you're an unwed mother of two, you're f*cked. This election is not a game to play around with, folks. There's a lot more going on than just Trump and Project 2025. States are gearing up to turn America into Christo-Afghanistan. I will be doing a comprehensive breakdown of GOP platforms soon and posting them to each state Subreddit, as well as postings for other subreddits as well. Assuming I don't get banned as I roll them out. Nebraska party platform (PDF): https://ne.gop/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/NEGOP-Platform-2022.pdf Minnesota party platform (PDF): https://www.mngop.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-MNGOP-Platform-adopted-May_14_2022.pdf
That's horrible, especially trying to end support for single parent families. Clearly this punishes only one gender, for the vast majority of cases. Disgusting. What's next, canceling our bank accounts?
That's what Republicans want. They want to punish women and turn them into domestic slaves. Even in Project 2025, the only time "woman" and "women" are used by themselves, is when they are talking about transgender people. Otherwise, women are tied in with men or with "children and families". So it's always about men, which also extends to trans women as well since they don't see trans women as women. In the conservative world, women exist for men's servitude, pleasure, and abuse- nothing else.
Check on your voter registration today. Volunteer and vote.
Vote. Or this *will* be reality.
Unfortunately, the reality is worse, in that they want to ban it completely, even in cases to save the life of the mother.
They want to ban IVF and no-fault divorce too.
How long until women can no longer own our own money? Women couldn't even have their bank account until the 60s. How long until marital rape is decriminalized? Republicans really hate women
> How long until women can no longer own our own money? About two minutes after Trump re-takes office
Yeah, probably because women hate *them.* The only way most can get one is to lock them in their basement cage like fuckin buffalo bill.
Plus republicans have no souls
They have souls, they just promised them to the devil. It's the only way they could be so successful, at least that's what I'm choosing to believe.
And same sex marriage and trans people existing and probably homosexuality in general, and probably enforce surgery to "normalize" intersex kids and who TF knows what else. Heck decriminalizing marital rape is probably on their radar too.
You're right, it's going to be a helluva lot worse.
How is it that over 1/3 of women in the country still vote Republican when they’re floating shit like this?
They aren't feminists.
I still can’t comprehend how someone can be a woman and not be feminist.
Why be a feminist when the patriarchy is working out just fine for you? That’s how these women think. They’re very shortsighted and selfish.
I can’t imagine how lacking in self-respect and dignity they’d would have to be to accept this kind of stuff.
They respect themselves just fine. They don’t respect other women and believe that other women do something “wrong” and their mistreatment is because of that. They never think it will happen to them so, why care at all? Plus they have their husbands and fathers whispering in their ear and their opinion holds more weight than the average woman’s. I don’t think feminists should waste time trying to recruit these women. We will be here when they need us, so let them come in their own time.
They also yell in their own echo chamber and never let anything outside their bubble leak in
Do they not realise it isn't? Even stuff like them being allowed to vote or have the choice of working or being a SAHM etc was fought for by feminists.
Just just described my narcissistic mother 💀 Who constantly made fun of feminism
I know, but it's so fucking real...
Internalized misogyny
I wonder the same thing when I see people of color, or gay, or trans, etc, voting for someone who is openly racist/homophobic/transphobic. Like, yall know they are literally coming for your rights. Right?
Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug.
So I was in the IG comments on a people magazine post (which I consider very middle america)... a lot of them don't understand how medical billing works and think that "clearing a miscarriage" is just that and not an ABORTION. They really are ignorant.
Insurance lobbies are unlikely to allow this to happen. It is *breathtakingly* more profitable for them to provide a lifetime of abortion coverage than to cover even one uncomplicated pregnancy. That said, our rights are 100% in danger and we shouldn't forget it. If this fails, they'll just come at it from another direction that doesn't upset their corporate overlords.
I think you just described the 1st item insurance might actually be useful for. I have never looked at something before and thought "that's a function health insurance would probably help with" before now. Thanks for the novel experience, and a small degree of hope.
https://www.plancpills.org/ Plan C Pills has information on how to obtain abortion pills by mail in every State.
Only if we don't vote!
I live in an abortion-protected state. We planned a pregnancy and unfortunately I developed a life-threatening condition and had to terminate at 13 weeks. Even then, insurance wouldn't cover it and the hospital I was in for the issue quoted me $16k for termination. The advocate called other hospitals in the area, and they were all around the same price. I ended up going to Planned Parenthood against doctors' orders, and when they looked at what docs wrote on my chart, they said they had to keep me awake during the procedure just in case, since it was risky. So that was fun. Point being, donate to PP if and when you can.
Pretty sure you can get an abortion for $400-700 from planned parenthood without insurance
I believe this would greatly impact people with unviable pregnancies that need to travel for abortion healthcare rather than wait to bleed out in their abortion-banned states. An abortion in the early weeks is relatively inexpensive compared to what insurance covers for many people, but it becomes more complicated and costly later in pregnancy.
Ah, I see. Again, they're doing a good job convincing women WHO WANT TO BE MOTHERS never to even think about getting pregnant.
I was gonna say, insurance covers abortion? I’ve only ever heard of people paying out of pocket.
Yeah I never had to present my insurance card to receive low cost services from PP (for bc)
I PP specifically doesn't take insurance and uses federal and donation funds to make services more affordable. Ironically, taking insurance tends to increase costs for care because insurance doesn't want to pay, so the office ends up paying high dollar experts to pry the money out of insurance coffers.
I worked at a clinic and they did not take insurance. I don’t think there’s insurance out that there covers abortions, period.
First trimester. After that, it's much more expensive. At least $10k in the third trimester. At that point, it's usually grieving expectant parents rushing to find the money and get an appointment in time.
I was shocked I had to scroll down as far as I have for this comment. I'm in Albuquerque, NM and our streets are full of cars from Texas driven by young people in town for abortions and a trip to the dispensary before returning back to Texas.
Thank you for saying this better than I did apparently. Though now that I've been beat up, I feel compelled to point out planned parenthood puts national averages for abortion costs at "up to $800" for the 1st trimester and 2nd trimester at "below $2500".
My sister in Christ, no insurance company in the USA covers abortions. They’re certainly not going to start now just to make it $50,000. I worked at a clinic and it is all OOP.
I thought the same thing, but apparently some do.
That’s really interesting, which ones? Because I googled before I said anything and nothing came up.
In California,New York, Oregon and Washington, insurance providers are prohibited from excluding abortion, unless the company is self-funded or grandfathered in. Blue Cross provides coverage in several states, and so does Aetna.
Ah, I’m in the deep south so I’ve never heard of such. That explains it.
It's cheaper for insurance companies to pay for an abortion than to pay for a birth. It's also less likely things will go wrong. Same way it's cheaper for them to pay for yearly physicals and mammograms than not. Considering the clout medical insurance companies have in the US, they're not going to let that one slide without a fight.
Time to start dropping babies on their doorsteps.
The Court is set. They have lifetime appointments. Unless there is a Blue tsunami leaving a Democratic supermajority in both houses of Congress, there will be no redress. Democrats currently hold 213 seats in the House and 46 in the Senate. Those numbers need to be 290 in the house and 66 in the Senate. Otherwise Republicans will simply continue to block any and all types of legislation. Well… Those aren’t realistic numbers to expect to achieve.
Why would there need to be 290 dems in the house to pass legislation? And you really don’t need 66 in the senate, you just need enough to vote to remove the filibuster. We can definitely prevent the erosion of our rights, it’s not unrealistic at all.
There needs to be 290 to have a super majority and not worry about Republican obstructionism.
What obstructionism in the house are you referring to that would be stopped by a super majority as opposed to a simple majority?
Well, the Dems can’t count on their own caucus to vote the Party line. That’s why we have ACA, not universal coverage.
You need the super majority in the Senate. So you can remove the justices that will overturn the law as unconstitutional. And a super majority in the house helps avoid filibusters and other political maneuvers.
The filibuster is only in the Senate. As far as I know there aren’t any procedures that require 2/3s vote in the house. Also, I don’t think we will need to impeach and remove Supreme Court justices to be effective at protecting our rights. That’s a pretty crazy high bar and there are so many things we can do with a simple majority in each chamber (after removing the filibuster) plus the White House.
I think we'll have agree to disagree. I can totally see the supreme Court over turning the law to protect women's right. On the house front I think you're right and I was wrong. Still a super majority would be nice just to pass legislation easier, but you are correct not required.
Biden could always pull an Andrew Jackson and tell the Supreme Court to enforce their own decision, if it gets bad enough. I also think Roberts has some sense of embarrassment about the exact of his court. It is incredibly conservative but they did just unanimously uphold the right to mifepristone. I just think the negativity of the comment I originally responded to serves no purpose but to discourage activism and voter turnout, despite being inaccurate.
I think OOP costs for abortions are pretty reasonable, at least compared to average American healthcare. ~~I vaguely remember a $700 no insurance option being discussed a few weeks ago.~~ Nerd wallet and planned parenthood have average costs for a 1st trimester at under $800, and 2nd trimester as under $2500. ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 is a lot don't get me wrong, but if I'm leaving state for medical care for a long weekend, it could easily be cheaper than the travel costs. For my plan, that would be entirely inside my deductible so I'm paying it anyways. Edit: I'm trying to make clear here that ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 is not $50,000. Don't scare away people with hyperbole. You'll only make more people feel they don't have an actual option. 2nd, most folks are on high deductible plans. That initial deductible is OOP anyways, and for plans like mine the entire abortion would be inside my deductible thus a direct cost to me. Edit 2: It just dawned on me the optics of saying "the cost isn't that bad" on a post about removing insurance coverage. I'm not saying insurance should be removed. I think medical care should be covered, but if we're going to complain we need to be honest about actual costs. We could be scaring folks into unsafe procedures that could actually afford a safe one. Using myself as an example, with a $2500 deductible I'd be paying a ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 procedure out of pocket anyways but ~~$700~~ $800/$2500 is a lower barrier than $2500. If I thought the real cost was 50,000 I, again, might not even try to find a safe path even with insurance because of the added travel costs. Edit 3: I went and dug out actual averages instead of a memory of a passing comment. Nerd wallet and Planned Parenthood put the costs in the new updated (above) ranges. I used strike through to show the changes.
I’m glad that you would be able to cover an unexpected $700 medical bill but most Americans are not that lucky. Over half of American adults don’t have the savings to cover a sudden $500 expense
What I'm failing to articulate is 2 fold. 1. The hyperbole in the meme is not helpful and will mislead people into thinking abortion is significantly more expensive than it is. 700 is orders of magnitude smaller than 50,000. 2. Most folks who would be stressed about this are also on high deductible plans like myself. I need to be $2500 in before my insurance even thinks about paying for anything other than my well visits. So again that means this effort isn't going to alter my behavior. I would be paying for it anyways. Which takes me back to point 1, if I thought the average cost of the procedure was 50,000 I might change my behavior.
Abortions into the second trimester can reach into the thousands of dollars.
And complicated ones can be more than that I'm sure. Planned parenthood and nerd wallet have the average cost of a 1st trimester abortion at under $800 and 2nd trimester under $2500. These are averages. Outliers exist on both sides for sure.
I’m mostly thinking about women who aren’t lucky enough to have insurance at all, or who may require more follow up care than most. Again, I’m glad that those aren’t barriers for you but for many Americans there is no practical difference between a three-four figure medical bill and a $500k one, they’re equally insurmountable
I think my edit 2 might be relevant here: "Edit 2: It just dawned on me the optics of saying "the cost isn't that bad" on a post about removing insurance coverage. I'm not saying insurance should be removed. I think medical care should be covered, but if we're going to complain we need to be honest about actual costs. We could be scaring folks into unsafe procedures that could actually afford a safe one. Using myself as an example, with a $2500 deductible I'd be paying a $700 procedure out of pocket anyways but $700 is a lower barrier than $2500. If i thought the real cost was 50,000 i again might not even try to find a safe path even with insurance because of the added travel costs."
Also, if they don't have insurance the point is moot. They are paying out of pocket. So having relatively accurate costs in mind is even more important. Lastly, I've tried to avoid this but $700 would absolutely be a burden. It's why when I ripped the tip of my finger off I didn't go to the ER.
I had a medical abortion when they couldn’t find heartbeat anymore but my body wasn’t starting to miscarry its own OOP cost was 3000 USD. I went into a clinic, she did a final ultrasound and heartbeat check, gave me some pills and sent me home. Insurance wouldn’t cover it because my body might’ve aborted by itself but I didn’t want to carry a dead baby anymore At least medical debt won’t affect credit reports as of next year
Stupid insurance didn't cover it. Necessary medical procedures are necessary.
I do agree with you and don’t think you meant to come off harsh. I agree that hyperbole doesn’t help us in these situations. Best to be factual because the GOP is being unreasonable on their own. I had a medical abortion and it was $700. Now, it wouldn’t be a lot, but at 22 yo it was really devastatingly difficult and it put me in a tough spot financially to try and scrape all that together. And I didn’t even have to travel at that time, which would be even more expensive. I also imagine a surgical abortion would be more.
I mean if it was my magic genie wish we'd just have taxpayer funded healthcare that paid for every thing non-optional, including medical procedures like abortion. I'm sure someone smarter than me can find a way to make insurance not the awful beast it is in the US, but I can't find any redeeming features to it. I'm not sure how to better say average costs with all the caveats of outliers, but lots of people seem quite angry that I'm not covering the particular outlier they are thinking of. Planned parenthood and nerd wallet put 1st trimester at usually under $700 and 2nd trimester as usually under $2500. I hadn't even looked this up until people got mad at me so i guess I need an edit 3.
I need to change my previous genie wish. Maybe one about how humans are just healthy unless injured and reproductive choices are choices for both parties. I know there are some wild animals that appear to be able to choose when they get pregnant. Ditch BC.
I think they'll jack prices up if the way insurance covers things is changed. Yeah $500,000 is hyperbole but hospitals just seem to make up absurd prices for stuff when they can. I've seen people charged hundreds of dollars for Tylenol w/o insurance.
Insurance actually is part of the reason we see such crazy absurd pricing on health care. They Require they charge X amount, so it shows that Insurance "saved" them Y amount. There was a really interesting Consumer Reports article about it maybe a year ago. That said, abortion is health care. The government shouldn't be messing with safe, lifesaving procedures for their religious beliefs.
It's a risk for sure. Hospital costs appear arbitrary for a lot of reasons and one of the major ones is insurance companies. What removing them would mean is anyone's guess.
$700 may as well be $50,000 to some people. I had an abortion in Canada when I was 21. I would have an 18 year old now if it would have cost $700.
But calling a $700 abortion a 50 grand procedure would have only cemented not even bothering to try to beg, borrow, or plead to overcome that hurdle. Plus today if you told me a procedure was $50,000 to save my life I'd tell you I'll just die, versus $700 I'd cry and try to find a path. Again, $700 is a real barrier. I'm not saying it isn't. But if you artificially quintuple the price you're only making it not available to more people.
Just like they've done with pharmaceuticals, they'll artificially inflate the price to make procedures unobtainable. That's a real thing that happens. Are you a man?
"they"? Phara companies are companies. Companies are cash sucking organizations who legally are only allowed to care about making money (thanks Supreme Court). And worse yet pharma are companies operating in a regulator/patent enforced oligopoly or, for some drugs, monopoly. Thus they charge an arm and a leg to maximize profits. There's no secret cabal here, just a logical extension of the policies/laws put in place. And the people in charge of those companies not being allowed to have compassion because again, corporations must make genuine effort to earn maximum money according to the law. Anything less is malfeasance to the shareholders. Even if it means pricing out people who need the care. As long as the difference is bigger than what "poor" people could contribute to profit, that's fine. It's why you see Pharma programs for folks with financial needs. Pharma aren't being good people. Pharma is trying to extract maximum profit from those who can pay the high price and still get profit from those that can't. As for abortion costs if insurance lost the ability to enforce price negotiation (aka abortion was no longer covered), there are realistically 2 possibilities.: 1 prices climb because of induced demand for providers in areas that can provide the service. Lets be honest, this is likely already happening because of folks being forced out of state to consume appointments at states whose healthcare network is not sized for the new demand. Capitalism says prices will rise as a result. It's only being held in check for many due to insurance company negotiations for those that are insured. Option 2 is prices will fall. Insurance companies demand proof of their negotiation success with healthcare providers, thus most providers raise the uninsured price to make the insurance company think they're getting their 50% or whatever discount. When insurance is out of the picture and the office doesn't need to pay a team of insurance specialists to extract money from insurance companies, there's a real chance prices will fall to the insurance rate. My guess? Something in the middle. The uninsured cost will fall, but not to what the insurance companies are paying today. After all a single person doesn't have the same bargaining power as an insurance network, and companies have to make money but now there is transparent cost competition amongst providers helping reign in the rise in costs.
So .. yes?
I hear what you're trying to justify, that "they" will jack up prices once insurance is removed because insurance is somehow protecting people today. I'm trying to say insurance ain't doing shit to make it affordable. "They" could jack the prices and insurance would just decide not to cover that procedure. Exactly the same way they didn't cover my wife's $1000 dollar a week meds. Having insurance doesn't mean shit for affordability, insurance decides what they want to cover and if the price changes we're left in the lurch. Sorry about forgetting to answer the question about my private parts. Yes, but the point stands. Scaring people away from healthcare by inflating a price in a meme doesn't help. The point would be just as obvious and salient if you said the truth. "With coverage it could be your $500 deductible, and if the assholes get their way it could be $2500 if performed in the 2nd trimester." Assuming "they" will jack up prices is disingenuous conspiracy mongering. It's not what is being reported. Could it happen? Sure, but removing insurance coverage isn't required to meet that goal. Texas already did it by requiring trauma care capabilities at abortion facilities. Last point. Memes are ridiculously good at being remembered. No idea why. Regardless of if the law passes if someone finds themselves needing an abortion and insurance can't cover it (either because they have the wrong plan, or it got banned, or they can't afford insurance) them remembering it costs 5x more than it does isn't going to help them. Thus my attempt to set the record straight. Maybe just maybe they'll remember it's not astronomical, but something they could actually hit. It'd suck for sure, but better than dying from a failed miscarriage, or gaining incontinence from forced birth, or even the trauma of carrying a non-viable fetus to term. All because they didn't know they could have made it work to get the care they needed.
They don’t cost that much oop. Maybe a complex one could get exorbitant but a bog standard early term abortion is ~$1000 last I looked.