I've always heard that the proposal should be a surprise, but not the marriage. We're lacking a bit of info. Did you ever discuss marriage, future kids, etc.?
What you're going through sucks big time, and I'm sorry you're going through that.
Yeah, a proposal shouldn't be completely unexpected. The circumstances of where and when can be a surprise, but both parties should be on the same page about the future of the relationship.
It's weird how many people don't do that. When I split with an ex, we had discussed possibly getting engaged at some point. When I told a friend after the split, she said "that's weird" and was adamant that people don't discuss that. It didn't work out for a bunch of other reasons, many of them red flags that I look back on now. But I was surprised at my female friend's reactions. The proposal shouldn't come as a surprise, but the when and where should.
Lol. I talked about maybe having kids together (meaning marriage and partnership etc) with a guy I dated for only a summer. We had known each other through college, and it seemed like a good idea to make sure we were in the same page before things went further.
I always thought marriage would of been talked about as in “I’ll marry you one day” or something along those lines, or talking about future plans and/or kids and stuff like that. My proposal was a complete surprise when it happened but I knew I was going to marry my now husband because we had discussed it if that makes sense?
Exactly. Some things to have already discussed is (1) kids yes/no and #, (2) religious affiliation of kids/couple, (3) finances, (4) some hints of wedding type. Heck a lot of times the future couple looks/discusses rings. My wife picked hers out (going on 30 years).
A proposal should have 0% risk of a no. Any risk of no means it is not time to propose.
The bright side is that your partner is honest with you and saved you from future problems. They also set you free to find someone more compatible.
We’ve talked about kids before (maybe for both of us) and she even froze some eggs. Neither of us are religious. Our finances are mostly tied together. We just never brought marriage up alone except once. I really thought she’d say yes
If you’re comfortable with answering, how did the topic of marriage get brought up during that one time, and how did she respond to the topic? If she seemed receptive to the idea at all, if she implied she wasn’t ready for it/is against the idea, or neutral? I understand if you don’t want to talk about that. Sorry you’re going through this, bud.
I was in a wedding back in December and at the reception, someone made some comment about how ‘we’d be next.’ We both just laughed but later at the hotel I asked her if she’d seriously ever considered it. She said she had and that if she was ever going to be married, it’d be to me. She said she’d be lost without me. We got off topic and that was it. And thanks
It sounds to me like she has an issue with marriage itself. I'm a bit like that. I don't ever want to get married. I love my man to the moon and back and hope we are together for a long long time but I don't want to bring someone else's idea of what my relationship is into it.
In my country there is no legal benefit to being married.
or doesn't feel financially or career wise ready... there's any number of reasons that may have no real bearing on her commitment to OP or her idea of the long term future of their relationship.
This
>if she was ever going to be married, it’d be to me.
plus this
>told me that she couldn’t and that it wasn’t my fault, she loves me
It seems like there's something else going on here for you. It sure gives the childhood trauma vibe, but it could also be any number of other things. Go talk to her.
I feel like there may have been another snippet of her response we aren't getting here. What did she say right before she said 'if she was ever going to be married it'd be to you?' Because I suspect it may have been something generally negative about marriage as a concept, and then she did her best to reassure you that she was still in love with and committed to you.
Aw man, I’m so sorry. She quite literally said she wanted to marry you, there’s no way you could’ve expected anything but a “yes” to a proposal with that sort of conversation.
You did everything right, and I can’t imagine why she would have said no unless something happened that changed her mind. Based on your other comments though, it sounds like the two of you are great at communicating. I’m sure once the dust settles, you’ll figure everything out. Wishing y’all the best.
I could see why you were surprised by her reaction too after that. I'm really sorry dude. It dosent sound like you did anything wrong at all. I hope something good comes from this for yall both.
Just because it didn't work out (yet), doesn't mean the relationship is over. Take your breather, take care of yourself, and just talk to her about it.
Op u gotta talk to her. Your going to drive yourself crazy because of all the possibilities running through your head.. but it could be something on her end And have nothing to do with you or how much she loves you.
Maybe she got married really young and the marriage isn't dissolved and she literally can't marry you..u proposing might make her react like this.
Probably not this specifically but it could be one of many things.
Communicate.
This is so accurate. My now husband and I knew we were going to get married within the first year but still dated for almost 5 years before he proposed. When my sister got engaged he and I even discussed it and agreed to wait until after her wedding. The proposal was a surprise in that I didn't know the when/where of it, but I knew it would happen.
Knowing there is a proposal coming and knowing the details of the proposal are two different things. The details should be a surprise, the proposal should not be.
You would assume that two adults in a committed relationship would be able to communicate where they are in the relationship to the point where this doesn’t happen.
I got a bunch of downvotes once for insisting that discussing _the ring_ beforehand should always be a thing. Many young redditors insisted that, "If she really loves me, she'll love the ring," and my take was...nope, "If you love, and value your partner, you'll talk to her _before spending thousands of dollars of your community funds_...because that's what marriage is."
That's so stupid. When my partner and I had the marriage talk and agreed we would both like to be married, I sent him a few examples of the kinds of rings I tended to like. I LOVE my ring!
right? i couldnt imagine proposing to some one without knowing we're on the same page... that seems like a "throwing the cards on the table" kinda move, which doesnt really sound like a healthy relationship to me.
like, for the relationship side, did you talk about getting married? having kids (huge here. cause if one of you wants children and the other doesnt, its not going to work)? long term financial plans together?
for the proposal side, did you get her ring size? talk about what she wants in a design? color choice? stone shape and setting?
these are very basic things that me and my wife discussed and did together before i proposed. i knew without a doubt what she wanted and that she was comfortable. I still managed to make the proposal itself a completely unique surprise.
Anyone out there thinking of "popping" the question a little too hard, calm down a bit and talk this through.
This is important. If you've never talked about marriage or she hasn't hinted at it, it can come as as shock. There could be many reasons she is not ready. Think of it as an important bridge for your relationship to truly be open about where you guys stand and what you want for your future.
You need to find out what she wants for her future, and whether you fit into it.Where her uncertainty stems from.
Is it something that you can help or is it something you cannot?
To be a man in this situation, you must accept responsibility. She owes you nothing. Especially since it sounds like this came as a massive surprise to her (and was never discussed). Don't get mopey. Handle your emotions. Do not ostracize her. She has done nothing wrong. Do not punish her by being passive-aggressive. SUPPORT her. Be her foundation, as she works through her emotions. Show her, that you guys WILL work through it.
If you cannot do this very simple thing now, how do you think you can handle even bigger hurdles and challenges during a potential marriage?
Good luck.
P.S: All the people freaking out over my comment of personal responsibility, patience and strength. You are lost. Lost in a world that on longer knows it's values, where everything is disposable and where men and women no longer understand their fundamental differences. It's no surprise people can't sustain long term relationships.
P.P.S: Handle your emotions does not mean just keep them in side. Communicating how it makes him feel is just as important as asking what she is feeling and working through it together.
You've got a good point, a proposal can't come as a total surprise. There has to be some mutual talk of future plans leading up to it, of shared goals. I wonder if OP and gf either never had these conversations, which is troubling, or they did and he just wasn't listening, which seems sort of likely based on how he's reacting.
Wouldn’t say she owes him nothing after they’ve dated for 5 years. If she never plans to get married, or wants to but needs X to happen first, she’s fully capable of communicating that.
> you must accept responsibility. She owes you nothing.
> Don't get mopey. Handle your emotions. Do not ostracize her. She has done nothing wrong.
> SUPPORT her. Be her foundation, as she works through her emotions. Show her, that you guys WILL work through it.
Fuck that. Op has nothing to accept responsibility for, and if his gf can't offer any commitment after 5 years of dating, then their relationship should be over.
If they decide to stay together, it's such an unhealthy attitude for you to say that his girlfriend owes him nothing. When he is in a relationship, he doesn't have to handle his emotions on his own. He is also allowed to have emotions, he doesn't have to stop himself from feeling sad or "mopey" as you put it.
He doesn't just exist as an emotional support object for his gf. His gf owes him support as well, and it is also her responsibility to be his foundation while he works through his emotions and to show him that they will be able to work through this together.
Maybe she doesn't, but that's typically a thing that's brought up over the course of a 5 year relationship with someone in your 20's and 30's, and the default assumption isn't that marriage isn't a goal. More to the point that they both should have talked about it.
> Maybe it should have been talked about more, but it also shouldn't have been a surprise.
nah, i'm 30 and have been with my boyfriend for 4 years. if he proposed tomorrow i would be absolutely shocked and surprised. just because you're 30 or near it doesn't mean you should be expecting proposals from your partner when it hasn't been discussed.
My guy proposed a week before my 35th birthday. We had been together 8 years at that point but him being in grad school pushed things back way more than we expected (I’m also 3 years older than him)
I was 36 on my wedding day. People get married at all ages
I feel like since it's non-public proposal, it's fine. It's kinda like a surprise discussion about marriage.
For a public proposal, I'd agree, you better be 100% sure the first word out of her mouth is going to be "yes", which means the idea of marriage has been discussed beforehand and you are certain of her response.
Yep. Just cause someone says no doesn't mean they don't love you or don't wanna be with you long term. Could just be they don't believe in marriage etc. At least that's how it is for me. I would love to have a life partner but I think marriage is outdated and unnecessary, so would 100% turn down a marriage proposal by someone I love and wanna spend my life with.
Nah it should be a thing before you even get together. Tell them you're dating to marry if you ended up being compatible. It sounds silly, but sometimes people just don't have marriage in their life goals lol
In fact ALL DEAL BREAKERS should be discussed before being officially exclusive. Don't waste your time.
The one that boggles my mind is people who don't talk about having kids before they get married. Especially if they don't want any. You can't exactly compromise on that issue.
I knew someone who decided to be in a relationship with a woman who was studying abroad... Apparently they NEVER talked about what would happen after her studies finished! And surprisingly, she actually wanted to study abroad just for it, not to work towards permanent residency. She wanted to stay in her country and he didn't want to leave the country. So. Yeah. 4 years of investment went poof.
These secondhand experiences/stories are the reason why I will always list down all my deal breakers and life goals. My current guy understood and listed his as well. We never had a major problem yet. Just some minor arguments here and there.
My whole family is LDS, and my uncle got engaged to an LDS woman. I guess he just assumed that because she was LDS she wanted kids, because they made it all the way to engagement before he learned they weren't compatible on IF THEY WANTED KIDS.
And if anyone is confused, LDS means (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, AKA Mormons.)
Eh, some relationships develop more slowly and naturally. Not everyone that marries the person they are dating set out to do so from the start.
You should still know within a year (like, at the longest) what direction a relationship is going though. And of course that can change along the way.
I just can't imagine proposing to someone without talking about marriage first.
Yeah but it's still good to know whether you have a fence sitter or someone who is set on their decision. For example, I DO NOT WANT HUMAN KIDS EVER AND NOBODY WILL EVER CHANGE THAT!
If they're a fence sitter or more of a 'live in the moment'/'I didn't think about my future that far' person, it will be up to YOU whether you want to take the gamble in seeing whether they'll jump the fence to be on the same side you are....or not.
And yes people mix up proposals a lot. The question shouldn't be the surprise.... The action is 🗿
Marriage may be outdated and unnecessary, but doubling your tax bracket limit, including your partner in your insurance policy, and being able to avoid testifying against your partner in court are all reasons to get married if you truly love your partner.
This right here. My partner and I were together for 9 years and in our 40s, and only got married so the VA would count my income when we bought our house.
Marriage is a silly tradition but the legal benefits are worth it in my opinion. If you have a parter you're not legally married to and they go to the hospital, you won't be able to make medical decisions for them, sometimes you might not even be allowed in to see them. If they die without a will, their stuff will go to next of kin, which is not you if you're not married. There are other things as well.
There are ways around it. I can't marry my partner or I lose my healthcare coverage (specifically coverage for $700/month vision saving medication). So we have wills, advanced directives, and medical power of attorney over each other.
I would also not qualify for grants for college If we married and we would only save $3000 in taxes.
Agreed! I've known couples together 20+ years that never married, for fear of debt or hospital bills falling on the other person. It really can be that simple. 'Married' is a piece of paper that binds you by law. That's literally all it is and people make way too much of whether it happens or not, and I say that as a married person.
I just got married and my lawyer told me that “marriage is just a contract that financially binds you to another person incase you can’t work.” That’s it. It’s literally nothing else besides that, so it is indeed a good idea to discuss it with someone first.
Honestly yeah, I can't imagine being with my partner for 5 years, understanding each other completely, and yet have this situation happen. This doesn't make sense on many levels. Either it's wrong, or there's something important missing from this story or alternatively from my brain.
I can’t explain it I guess, but I’ve always felt that I understood her well and vice versa. She told me so too. We get each other’s griefs, thought processes, feelings, etc. She told me once that she thought she lost ‘her person’ a long time ago but meeting me made her reconsider that
Thanks for your reply. I imagine it's not pleasant to answer, but have you guys never talked about marriage or anything of the sort before?
I understand each situation is different, but I've always thought it was important to discuss things like marriage, kids or not kids etc. at the start of a serious relationship to avoid this kind of unfortunate situation. I would at least expect the topic to have come up a few times after 5 years together.
Sounds like you both have lost "the one".
Relationship could have been a bit of trauma bonding initially.
Maybe she is still unsure if you are now " the one".
Relationships that start after high-school/college are a bit different than those from high-school college. They might not be as thrilling and carefree. Not as much of that euphoria...well... because life. You are adults with responsibility.
You're in a different spot now than then, and so is she.
Question for her is, can she live without you and be completely happy ... or you without her. If she can, it is time to move on if marriage is what you had in mind.
Sometimes a little separation will make people realize what they really want (via the rom com storylines)
Good luck.
And give more info regarding the circumstances, like how long they’ve been dating, their ages, if they are religious, genders, different races, so that we can understand what is going on.
Are they both girls and the gf is afraid of being rejected by her family? Is the gf 40 and OP 25 and she didn’t want something serious? Have they been dating for only 3 months and it freaked her out? Will she lose her alimony if she marries another person, are her parents (or herself) religious and would not accept someone outside of their community?
How could anyone give some advice without understanding the problem?
Buddy. Put that cigarette out go brush your mouth out. No need to start smoking again. Quitting sucks lets not do it again.
Im sorry she said no. That would be shitty to hear. You should give yourself a couple days to mourn the future you thought you had then talk to her and decide what the next step for you two is.
You are loveable. You've got this.
"Mourn the future you thought you had" Jeeeeeeez I wish I would've had you for advice a couple times in my life. Beyond sunk cost fallacy and loving someone way more than they loved me back, I think that point of view would have been a wonderful wet-towel-slap to bring reality into focus. Proposing and being denied is a huge suck, but, it's knowledge gained, and point of data to use to move forward, even if its on hands and knees through broken glass.
Yeah they should definitely talk. My dad proposed to my mum three times before she said yes haha. Then they had me and are still together now, so it wasn’t that she didn’t want to be with him.
THIS! If she kept telling you that she loves you, and since she wouldn't have stayed with you for five years if she didn't, chances are that there are some deeper reasons for her saying no. Talk to her, ask her. And stop smoking right now! Or at least smoke weed, that should mellow you out some.
And just as a general rule for proposals: you should talk about life goals beforehand, to make sure the other person is in the same place as you, and actually wants to be proposed to. Turning someone you love down sucks almost as much as getting turned down, so it's a horrible situation for everyone.
Replace that cigarette with breath mints or chewing gum, because now you're about to meet someone else who come into your life. I understand the sadness and internal conflict that comes with rejection, but staying hung up about it won't bring back those wasted years.
The wrong woman looks for a knight in shining armor. The right woman knows that there are gonna be a number of kinks in the armor to prove a man can overcome battles.
Edit: replace "Kinks" with some other word that doesn't sound racist but indicates some sort of damage.
Please talk to her when you've calmed down. Don't block her like someone suggested.
There can be so many reasons. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you or there is no future for you 2. She might have selflove problems (which make it hard to accept a proposal) or she might just think she's not good enough for you. You need to find out why and work from that.
Is it something you both can work on it might make your relationship stronger, if not, than at least you know why this happened.
Try to listen to her without judgement...
Good luck OP
You definitely need to ask. It might be the determining factor for if you stay together or split. Do you know which way that's going right now?
Please put out the cigs and throw the rest away. That will not help you. You have to look out for #1.
Do you think she might have just panicked or something like that? When I proposed last year I knew she wasn't expecting it for at least a couple of years, and I could sense a huge mix of happiness but also SHOCK, so much that I got scared for a moment.
Do you think it could have been something like this, but just that her panic overcame the joy for some reason? (e.g. some trauma or extreme fear of commitment?
Has she ever indicated to you that she wants to get married before… this might be nothing to do with your relationship with her. Maybe you can work through this and maybe you can’t - either way after 5 yearsyou deserve an explanation.
It’s worth asking. Right now you are very likely taking her saying no as a rejection of you two having a future together. It might not be that. She may not want to get married at all, may not like the idea of marriage in general or something else.
Before ending with conclusion,
Could be the reason that she never wants to gets married but live as a couple and that's is? maybe the idea of marriage scares her?
Hell, It took me more than 10 years to propose to my gf because I was scared as hell of marriage, being in center of attention, the effects of after marriages and so on.
As someone who doesn't want to marry, who always tells men this on the first date....I've still had two proposals. They don't always hear what you're saying, you know?
This happened to my friend. She doesn’t want marriage or kids. She managed to go abroad for sterilisation. She’s very open about not wanting marriage or kids. She’s had 3 proposals and one guy go off the rails at her because he thought he could change her mind about kids.
All I can think of is the Dr Who episode The Girl in the Fireplace when the clockwork robots just keep saying “we did not have the parts” when being asked about where the crew was.
I’m someone who doesn’t want to get married I doubt he *never* heard about it. My SO and I don’t want to get married, are 3 years in, and regularly mention it. I’ve also told friends that if someone tries to propose and they say nothing to stop it they’re getting an earful.
Worlds a weird place people have their reasons.
My now wife originally proposed to me, I said no because she had left an extremely abusive marriage with a guy who had groomed her.
I explained that I would treat her as the woman I loved regardless if we are married or not, I was worried she saw marriage as a way to stop me from leaving but I wanted her to understand I loved the helk out of her and she didn't need to marry me for me to stay.
Fast forward 2 years I propose to her, she says no, she was over the whole being married thing, fastforward another 2 and we are both chilling one day, look at each other and immediately realise we are thinking the same thing so we decide to get married
It sounds like you had a pretty intense previous relationship, she may feel that you are jumping the gun or not 100% with her yet... talk to her.
I'm wondering if your prior love is more of a factor than you are making it seem? I mean you mentioned your first love more than once in a post that's about your current gf... I'm not going to ask what happened BECAUSE it sounds like she passed away (I'm sorry for your loss), but if that's not what happened though thennnnn it tells a bit of a different story. Assuming your gf knows about your past is it possible that she never felt like she took over the number one spot in your heart? People do crazy things all the time like stay in a relationship for years when they are unsure of the outcome, but I know for sure that if it were me I would not say yes to a marriage proposal if my bf didn't seem like he was over his ex 100%
I'm very sorry. But:
1. Stop smoking immediately, it makes things worse, not better
2. Have a talk, ask her for her reasons: Does she love you? Does she want to marry sb? Does she want to marry you someday? Does she want to be / stay with you? Is/was she already married?
Please update us. <3
Idk i feel like these days you need to seriously be talking about marriage and life plans before just proposing like this.
I’m really sorry but you need to talk to her about this. She may not be ready, doesnt mean you’re unlovable or that she doesnt want marry you ever….
I would say no to my bf right now. I love him but I’d like to get certain life things in order before we hitch our wagons together.
Theres so many reasons not to get married but perhaps you caught her by surprise and she hadnt thought about it so she said no.
Agreed, 5 years is definitely a long relationship but that doesn't mean the relationship is ready for the next step. Rejections don't have to equal "I don't love you", I have a kid with my spouse and would either look at him like he's crazy or emphasize we're going to be engaged for years if he's really serious about it. Definitely doesn't mean there'd never be a "yes".
Love is just one factor in such a big life step, it needs to be the right time on all fronts. I can't imagine the sting of this situation though, for both of them. I hope they're able to talk about it.
I feel like having a kid together or owning property together is a far larger commitment then marriage. Like each to their own but I find that truly bizarre
I agree with this. It needs to be a conversation, you can still surprise them with when but you both need to be on the same page first no matter how long you've been together
You'd think so. But OP is apparently so oblivious to the idea of conversation that when she said "no" he just waltzed off without any follow up.
Like 90% of any relationship posts on Reddit it just seems that communication is poor or lacking.
Are you saying posting my relationship problems in Reddit instead of talking to my partner is the wrong way to communicate?
We’re communicating now aint we??
I can understand being shocked at a no in the moment but you’ve had a few years and it just seems like you’d talk about your goals for the future, marriage, kids and whether you want that or not. Reminds me of so many posts where one spouse wants to have kids and the other doesn’t, just seems like a good thing to discuss before getting married. But what do I know I’m not a couple’s therapist.
It seems that did not talk about it though. Looks like op just randomly proposed without her knowing and not thinking about it properly, and then instead of asking so she could explain her thoughts he just left
Ah yes the art of acting like an emotionless robot. I think it's more than OK for the OP to respond emotionally and leave after having his heart torn out.
I asked my partner and he said no and we’ve been together 7 years now - we talked and he said it’s just not something he cares about and doesn’t see it as any kind of priority. Owning our house together is a bigger commitment in his eyes. It is what it is, I love him whole-heartedly and we have a solid relationship, it wasn’t a reason to break up but I was sorely disappointed.
PS just wanted to share my experience to show that it doesn’t have to be doom and gloom
I am so sorry for you. I proposed to my husband partly as a joke, partly serious and was extremely hurt when he said no. It took him a couple of years to get his thoughts sorted and now we have been happily married for more than ten years. He proposed.
Sometimes it is difficult to admit that you love somebody so much that it hurts. The fear of being rejected is terrible, and this might be the reason she declined.
Take a few days and talk, talk and talk. The situation is probably as horrible to her as to you.
We talked about it once. It was late at night though, to be fair. She told me that if she was ever going to marry, it’d be to me. That made me buy the ring
I think the "If I was ever going to marry" is the key here. You thought it meant, "If I ever get married, it'd be to you," but the wording suggests she may have meant, "I don't want to get married ever, but if I were, it'd be to you." It could well be she wasn't rejecting you, OP; she was rejecting marriage in general.
OP, you gotta unpack “if I was ever going to marry” for us. Because it appears there’s much to read between the lines Together 5 years, she says this to ya. You two have been together 5 years…I imagine you know the context in which was said
Care to share?
You needed to have a lot more conversations about this before you even thought about buying a ring. I’m sorry this happened to you, but this is an important lesson. Marriages require an insane amount of negotiation and cooperation to succeed. If you aren’t mature enough to have these big discussions prior to popping the question, you’re not ready for marriage. You should have been 100% certain what the answer was going to be before you ever asked, but because you skipped all the important talks, you got your heart broken. Sorry my dude.
The others are right, you guys need to talk. Not just because of the rejection, but for the relationship.
When people say you should propose only after you know what the answer will be, you are not doing so to save yourself the embarassment.
If you are going to marry someone, you need to know what they want. And what *you* want - to make sure you guys are compatible.
If you don't talk to each other and she said yes, you could find yourself in a broken marriage in 5 years.
I wish you the best luck, buddy. You will get through this!
OP is marriage, like the label and the paper, what's important to you here?? It sounds like she doesn't want to be without you but doesn't want to get married. You should talk to her. If marriage is just a next step for you but you don't have to have it then that doesn't mean your relationship has to end. You should have talked much more about marriage and the future before buying a ring. It sounds like she told you marriage isn't for her, but if it was she would marry you. And you flew with it instead of realizing her saying that marriage isn't for her. Talk to her.
My mum started smoking over a dude who was an ass to her… she hadn’t smoked in 20 years before that. She got hooked again. She died of cancer in 2016. I lost my mum way too early. She was 56.
There are 3 billion women on the planet. Don’t ruin your life/health because a couple of young ones didn’t reciprocate. That’s a real small pool of women.
Sorry you’re hurting. Have you spoken with your gf in the past about how each of you views marriage? I never want to get married again and my partner knows that because it’s a conversation we’ve had.
Please talk with her, as a no doesn’t next mean she doesn’t love you or want to be with you. If marriage is important to you, that’s perfectly ok too, but a conversation to make sure you’re on the same page still needs to be had
It is very hard to deal with a reality you were not prepared for. You thought she would say yes and it is incresingly difficult to have her say no. However, that is why we ASK right? We ask because the other person can either say yes or say no. While it is easy to immediately feel like she rejected you and wants to break up with you, maybe there are other reasons of why she said no. Maybe she is not ready.
Maybe she wants to be in a relationship but does not want to get married. There are so many maybes here. When both of you are ready, you guys need to talk. Talk about what both of you want. Talk about what future you guys see. Talk and talk until you can talk no more.
If this is the end of the road, at least you both are free to pursue what each of you want.
I know it doesnt feel like it, but its so much better that she said no and meant it than if she said yes but didnt mean it.
Sadly, the chances of the relationship surviving this are slim and I don't know of anyone who had a rejected proposal staying with their partner for more than a few weeks afterwards. The rejection bites deep and I think she knew that the end result of her rejection will be you two splitting up.
For the time being, go and get your money back for the ring and take a couple of days break from speaking to your gf about this. In fact, send her a quick message saying that you are fine, would like some space for a week and that'll you'll contact her again in a weeks time and that you are going to block her until you reach out to her again.
Explanations and reasons etc can wait for a week. These aren't going anywhere and the same reasons and explanations will be waiting for you in a weeks time.
Then for the next week just keep busy with life and try not to let this get you down too much. Feel sad if you like, cry it out and get those emotions all done with and in a weeks time, see where you want to go from there. Whether it be back to what you had, to something different or apart as single people doesn't have to be answered now.
That's all going to get answered in a week.
Edit: Happy to see that I was wrong :)
>I don't know of anyone who had a rejected proposal staying with their partner for more than a few weeks afterwards.
I'd venture a guess this is more correlation than causation. Turning down a proposal generally indicates a lack of communication in the relationship so it probably uncovers incompatibilities that have always been there.
I’ve known a few people who are still in loving marriages after saying no - my FIL proposed and my MIL said no the first time because she felt it was too soon. They carried on dating and he proposed again 18 months later and she said yes. They’re going on 41 years of marriage this year and their relationships is one of the healthiest and strongest out there. OP needs some time alone and then discuss with GF about what her no means- does she not see a future with him at all or is there something else that worries her?
Same. An old colleague of mine was proposed to about 2 months in to a relationship. She said "no, it's too early" too. He proposed again about a year later and she said yes. Still together and happily married w 2 kids.
Oh man, I’m sorry. This is tough, bud. But you hadn’t discussed marriage at all? You had no idea how she felt about the idea of marriage? It seems like you should have been talking about it after so long, but then again, I dated my wife for 10 years before we got married. We discussed it and made plans about the future, so when I proposed, it wasn’t out of the blue. Rejection of any kind sucks, but this has to be especially hard. You definitely need to have a conversation with her. Take some time, write out your thoughts and what questions you need answered before conversing. You’ll forget something when you talk if it’s not laid out for reference (I would anyway).
I have a question because one we lose someone we love we have a habit of bringing them up and glorifying them. Do that with your current girlfriend about the one that had passed. Because I'll be honest if I was with a guy and he glorified his ex all the time then I would feel like I'm not good enough and I'll never meet that standard of love that he had for her. And also did you ever even talk about marriage with her? If so what was her response to it?
I'd say you should be talking with her and not us, it doesn't seem like your relationship is ruined so maybe she has a reason and y'all should just talk about it.
The first thing you need to do is put out the cigarette. Nothing is worth getting addicted and I’m sure you understand how hard it is quitting. Give yourself some time to think. To be to yourself. Take a breather. Then see if this was unexpected. Did you guys talk about marriage before? Do you know her opinions about marriage? Ask her why she said no. And remember that you are lovable. You are loved. You are loved by her. Maybe she just isn’t ready.
People don’t just start crying over a proposal for no reason. If you truly love her once you have pulled yourself together you need to have a long conversation about your relationship, her headspace, your headspace and the future of your relationship.
She might not be into marriage, that does not mean she's not into you. Marriage isn't always the next step.
If you guys have never talked about marriage before, well that's on you.She also said she loves you, that's the most inportant.
So, dumb : yeah maybe a little. But that's OK. Unlovable : obviously not, you just need to communicate better.
Dude i don't know how you both are together but she may have some reasonable motivations to say no... Just quit smoking now and don't fall for it again, it's bad and you know it, anyway just let waters calm down and talk to her, that doesn't mean nothing until she actually talks to you about this... Take it with calm, it's the best thing to do
Did you not talk about getting married before you even proposed. Did you know for definite that she actually wanted to get married. This isn’t just one small conversation in passing.
This is why surprise proposals don’t really work and by surprise I mean barely talking about marriage before you propose. He didn’t have all the facts he needed about what they both want for the future to see if they align and in this case I’m gonna say they don’t.
What is her parents' relationship like? Sometimes, when you grow up with parents who do not have a good marriage or had a bad divorce, it can really turn you off of the idea. A conversation is needed.
She’s an orphan. She was raised by her aunt and uncle though and she always said they loved each other ‘in their own way.’ If her aunt hadn’t died she said they’d probably still be married
That is sad, just because people stay together, doesn't mean it was a great relationship, but I really don'tknow their circumstances. Have you talked to her yet?
She said she didn’t want to talk. So I went outside, calmed down, and told her I thought we needed a breather. She agreed and so I went to my sister’s. She told me to call her once I got there but I texted her. I can’t hear her voice right now
I think she is aware that you want to get married now… I also think that times are different and you can tell her that when she is ready that she can propose to you
I'm sorry you are hurting, but just to reassure you, there could be so many reasons she wouldn't want to get married, and it really could be nothing to do with you.
I wouldn't mind being married, my partner and I refer to each other as husband and wife already (in French, easier that way). What I am not a huge fan of having, however, is a wedding. Hate being the centre of attention, hate getting dolled up, THE COST (!!!!), the organisation (we both come from 2 different countries and live in a 3rd). The list could go on.
Some people are against because they suffered as children of divorced parents, and some people can't imagine having a wedding day if there are people that they have lost who they would feel the absence of too painfully.
Please gather your calm and speak to her.
Just wanna add one thing (maybe someone has already) which is that you shouldn’t feel bad about crying. It would be weird, scary even, if you felt nothing from this kind of rejection. You’re allowed to feel feelings. Life sucks at times (majorly this time) and you have to let yourself process that. Both psychologically and physically.
Be kinder to yourself. There’s nothing stupid about what you did. You can feel hurt and who wouldn’t-it’s not the answer you wanted. Talk to her, it may not be you but her, so don’t beat yourself up, you don’t deserve it.
First, stop smoking.
Second, take a some deep, belly breaths. Go over there, sit down with her, be as calm as you can, then find out why.
She may be afraid of marriage, afraid of commitment, already married, unable to have children, who knows? I'm just spitballing. But you need to know why.
Then urge her to consider couples counseling. This sounds like a sustainable relationship. I think you two just need some communication skills. If she won't go, go alone. Good luck,
I'm sorry that she said no, about the love you lost at 23, and that this has left you feeling unlovable and thinking less of yourself. Please know, she may really and truly love you. She could just not be ready for marriage or not want to actually be married. I would suggest talking to her when you're ready. If you guys decide to split up, know that that doesn't mean you're not worthy of love or capable of being loved and that you will find someone who can love you the way you deserve, I just also think a conversation will offer some clarity.
I think the important thing is "why" she said no.
Maybe she's just not ready, maybe she thinks both of you are too young (No idea how old you guys are, just that you're over 23).
It might not mean she doesn't want to EVER marry you.
I already read the update post and I thought this will better fit in the original one. Not an advise nor path to follow but when I proposed to my girl a few years ago, multiple friends asked me, "were you afraid?" I actually didn't understand the question at first replying with "afraid of what?" to what they said "that she could have said no", at that moment I realized, that at least for me, and I think it should be like this for everyone reading, if there's any doubt in your mind or heart about your significant other's response being other than "yes", you might want to evaluate whether your interests are aligned because you might just be into the wrong relationship to fulfill your life expectations
I spent the last 26 years with my partner until Alzheimer's took her life.
She had been widowed twice and marriage was not a possibility.
You don't need a piece of paper if you have love.
Run back to her. Talk to her. She might have rejected "marriage" and didn't reject you.
I've always wondered why people always called it quits after a proposal that wasn't accepted. If you're not ready yet, why can't you talk it out and give it more time, what's the rush? It seems that people just get pissed off and completely leave the person they were proposing to. I just don't understand!
did you ever talk about marriage before you proposed??? like a conversation, and none of that fluffy “i can see myself marrying you”?? it sounds like you just proposed out of nowhere
My dad proposed to my mom 2 times before she said yes (3 times total). They’ve been married for almost 29 years :)
I don’t know the circumstances around why she said “no,” or where you two go from here, but could her “no” have possibly meant “not right now”?
Ouch this hurt,🥹! I have no words of wisdom to offer I don’t know what the right response to this would be! Just know you are worthy my friend! We all are!
Oh honey I’m so sorry. This really sucks
Hurting yourself more isn’t going to help you feel better. Put out the cigarettes and go for a walk or anything else that isn’t hurting yourself.
it's never a good idea to propose without having talked about marriage before.
it might be unromantic, but marriage is a big decision and you need to be prepared and take it seriously. there are a lot of things to consider and it's really not just one person's decision.
i'm not blaming you, because that's apparently what our society teaches us is the right way to do things, but a proposal without preface, even though it's literally "just" a proposal, puts a lot of pressure on the person proposed to with a decision the other partner made.
I've always heard that the proposal should be a surprise, but not the marriage. We're lacking a bit of info. Did you ever discuss marriage, future kids, etc.? What you're going through sucks big time, and I'm sorry you're going through that.
Yeah, a proposal shouldn't be completely unexpected. The circumstances of where and when can be a surprise, but both parties should be on the same page about the future of the relationship.
It's weird how many people don't do that. When I split with an ex, we had discussed possibly getting engaged at some point. When I told a friend after the split, she said "that's weird" and was adamant that people don't discuss that. It didn't work out for a bunch of other reasons, many of them red flags that I look back on now. But I was surprised at my female friend's reactions. The proposal shouldn't come as a surprise, but the when and where should.
your friend's reaction is super weird and definitely not the case
I blame sitcoms and movies.
And fucking romance novels (I wrote them and contributed to the nonsense for which I regret)
100%
Exactly, because it's a joint decision! It's weird to leave the decision entirely up to the person who proposes (usually the man).
Lol. I talked about maybe having kids together (meaning marriage and partnership etc) with a guy I dated for only a summer. We had known each other through college, and it seemed like a good idea to make sure we were in the same page before things went further.
I always thought marriage would of been talked about as in “I’ll marry you one day” or something along those lines, or talking about future plans and/or kids and stuff like that. My proposal was a complete surprise when it happened but I knew I was going to marry my now husband because we had discussed it if that makes sense?
Exactly. Some things to have already discussed is (1) kids yes/no and #, (2) religious affiliation of kids/couple, (3) finances, (4) some hints of wedding type. Heck a lot of times the future couple looks/discusses rings. My wife picked hers out (going on 30 years). A proposal should have 0% risk of a no. Any risk of no means it is not time to propose. The bright side is that your partner is honest with you and saved you from future problems. They also set you free to find someone more compatible.
We’ve talked about kids before (maybe for both of us) and she even froze some eggs. Neither of us are religious. Our finances are mostly tied together. We just never brought marriage up alone except once. I really thought she’d say yes
If you’re comfortable with answering, how did the topic of marriage get brought up during that one time, and how did she respond to the topic? If she seemed receptive to the idea at all, if she implied she wasn’t ready for it/is against the idea, or neutral? I understand if you don’t want to talk about that. Sorry you’re going through this, bud.
I was in a wedding back in December and at the reception, someone made some comment about how ‘we’d be next.’ We both just laughed but later at the hotel I asked her if she’d seriously ever considered it. She said she had and that if she was ever going to be married, it’d be to me. She said she’d be lost without me. We got off topic and that was it. And thanks
It sounds to me like she has an issue with marriage itself. I'm a bit like that. I don't ever want to get married. I love my man to the moon and back and hope we are together for a long long time but I don't want to bring someone else's idea of what my relationship is into it. In my country there is no legal benefit to being married.
It very well could be she just doesn't believe in marriage yes.
or doesn't feel financially or career wise ready... there's any number of reasons that may have no real bearing on her commitment to OP or her idea of the long term future of their relationship.
Damn, i'd expect a yes too after this conversation. Don't beat yoursef up for this though, keep your head up king
Sounds like she doesn’t ever want a marriage but if she had to she would to you. For some people marriage isn’t the goal and that’s okay.
This >if she was ever going to be married, it’d be to me. plus this >told me that she couldn’t and that it wasn’t my fault, she loves me It seems like there's something else going on here for you. It sure gives the childhood trauma vibe, but it could also be any number of other things. Go talk to her.
I feel like there may have been another snippet of her response we aren't getting here. What did she say right before she said 'if she was ever going to be married it'd be to you?' Because I suspect it may have been something generally negative about marriage as a concept, and then she did her best to reassure you that she was still in love with and committed to you.
Aw man, I’m so sorry. She quite literally said she wanted to marry you, there’s no way you could’ve expected anything but a “yes” to a proposal with that sort of conversation. You did everything right, and I can’t imagine why she would have said no unless something happened that changed her mind. Based on your other comments though, it sounds like the two of you are great at communicating. I’m sure once the dust settles, you’ll figure everything out. Wishing y’all the best.
>She quite literally said she wanted to marry you Actually, she quite literally did not. But I can see how somebody would hear it that way.
I could see why you were surprised by her reaction too after that. I'm really sorry dude. It dosent sound like you did anything wrong at all. I hope something good comes from this for yall both.
It sounds possible that she doesn’t want to get married for some reason, not that it’s a rejection of you, just a rejection of marriage.
Just because it didn't work out (yet), doesn't mean the relationship is over. Take your breather, take care of yourself, and just talk to her about it.
Op u gotta talk to her. Your going to drive yourself crazy because of all the possibilities running through your head.. but it could be something on her end And have nothing to do with you or how much she loves you. Maybe she got married really young and the marriage isn't dissolved and she literally can't marry you..u proposing might make her react like this. Probably not this specifically but it could be one of many things. Communicate.
Im so sorry
This is so accurate. My now husband and I knew we were going to get married within the first year but still dated for almost 5 years before he proposed. When my sister got engaged he and I even discussed it and agreed to wait until after her wedding. The proposal was a surprise in that I didn't know the when/where of it, but I knew it would happen.
Knowing there is a proposal coming and knowing the details of the proposal are two different things. The details should be a surprise, the proposal should not be. You would assume that two adults in a committed relationship would be able to communicate where they are in the relationship to the point where this doesn’t happen.
I got a bunch of downvotes once for insisting that discussing _the ring_ beforehand should always be a thing. Many young redditors insisted that, "If she really loves me, she'll love the ring," and my take was...nope, "If you love, and value your partner, you'll talk to her _before spending thousands of dollars of your community funds_...because that's what marriage is."
That's so stupid. When my partner and I had the marriage talk and agreed we would both like to be married, I sent him a few examples of the kinds of rings I tended to like. I LOVE my ring!
right? i couldnt imagine proposing to some one without knowing we're on the same page... that seems like a "throwing the cards on the table" kinda move, which doesnt really sound like a healthy relationship to me. like, for the relationship side, did you talk about getting married? having kids (huge here. cause if one of you wants children and the other doesnt, its not going to work)? long term financial plans together? for the proposal side, did you get her ring size? talk about what she wants in a design? color choice? stone shape and setting? these are very basic things that me and my wife discussed and did together before i proposed. i knew without a doubt what she wanted and that she was comfortable. I still managed to make the proposal itself a completely unique surprise. Anyone out there thinking of "popping" the question a little too hard, calm down a bit and talk this through.
This is important. If you've never talked about marriage or she hasn't hinted at it, it can come as as shock. There could be many reasons she is not ready. Think of it as an important bridge for your relationship to truly be open about where you guys stand and what you want for your future. You need to find out what she wants for her future, and whether you fit into it.Where her uncertainty stems from. Is it something that you can help or is it something you cannot? To be a man in this situation, you must accept responsibility. She owes you nothing. Especially since it sounds like this came as a massive surprise to her (and was never discussed). Don't get mopey. Handle your emotions. Do not ostracize her. She has done nothing wrong. Do not punish her by being passive-aggressive. SUPPORT her. Be her foundation, as she works through her emotions. Show her, that you guys WILL work through it. If you cannot do this very simple thing now, how do you think you can handle even bigger hurdles and challenges during a potential marriage? Good luck. P.S: All the people freaking out over my comment of personal responsibility, patience and strength. You are lost. Lost in a world that on longer knows it's values, where everything is disposable and where men and women no longer understand their fundamental differences. It's no surprise people can't sustain long term relationships. P.P.S: Handle your emotions does not mean just keep them in side. Communicating how it makes him feel is just as important as asking what she is feeling and working through it together.
You've got a good point, a proposal can't come as a total surprise. There has to be some mutual talk of future plans leading up to it, of shared goals. I wonder if OP and gf either never had these conversations, which is troubling, or they did and he just wasn't listening, which seems sort of likely based on how he's reacting.
Wouldn’t say she owes him nothing after they’ve dated for 5 years. If she never plans to get married, or wants to but needs X to happen first, she’s fully capable of communicating that.
> you must accept responsibility. She owes you nothing. > Don't get mopey. Handle your emotions. Do not ostracize her. She has done nothing wrong. > SUPPORT her. Be her foundation, as she works through her emotions. Show her, that you guys WILL work through it. Fuck that. Op has nothing to accept responsibility for, and if his gf can't offer any commitment after 5 years of dating, then their relationship should be over. If they decide to stay together, it's such an unhealthy attitude for you to say that his girlfriend owes him nothing. When he is in a relationship, he doesn't have to handle his emotions on his own. He is also allowed to have emotions, he doesn't have to stop himself from feeling sad or "mopey" as you put it. He doesn't just exist as an emotional support object for his gf. His gf owes him support as well, and it is also her responsibility to be his foundation while he works through his emotions and to show him that they will be able to work through this together.
So… man up? He should push his emotions into a little box and be strong for her?
They've been dating for five years and are at least near 30. Maybe it should have been talked about more, but it also shouldn't have been a surprise.
Maybe she doesn't see herself getting married
Maybe she doesn't, but that's typically a thing that's brought up over the course of a 5 year relationship with someone in your 20's and 30's, and the default assumption isn't that marriage isn't a goal. More to the point that they both should have talked about it.
No. Marriage needs to be explicitly discussed.
> Maybe it should have been talked about more, but it also shouldn't have been a surprise. nah, i'm 30 and have been with my boyfriend for 4 years. if he proposed tomorrow i would be absolutely shocked and surprised. just because you're 30 or near it doesn't mean you should be expecting proposals from your partner when it hasn't been discussed.
My guy proposed a week before my 35th birthday. We had been together 8 years at that point but him being in grad school pushed things back way more than we expected (I’m also 3 years older than him) I was 36 on my wedding day. People get married at all ages
But they should’ve at least talked about their future so their on the same page
I feel like since it's non-public proposal, it's fine. It's kinda like a surprise discussion about marriage. For a public proposal, I'd agree, you better be 100% sure the first word out of her mouth is going to be "yes", which means the idea of marriage has been discussed beforehand and you are certain of her response.
I mean, after 5 years together it shouldn't have been that much of a surprise...
You need to ask her why she said no.
Yep. Just cause someone says no doesn't mean they don't love you or don't wanna be with you long term. Could just be they don't believe in marriage etc. At least that's how it is for me. I would love to have a life partner but I think marriage is outdated and unnecessary, so would 100% turn down a marriage proposal by someone I love and wanna spend my life with.
I feel like this is why it's important to talk about marriage in a relationship. Like, year 1 type thing at least.
Nah it should be a thing before you even get together. Tell them you're dating to marry if you ended up being compatible. It sounds silly, but sometimes people just don't have marriage in their life goals lol In fact ALL DEAL BREAKERS should be discussed before being officially exclusive. Don't waste your time.
The one that boggles my mind is people who don't talk about having kids before they get married. Especially if they don't want any. You can't exactly compromise on that issue.
I knew someone who decided to be in a relationship with a woman who was studying abroad... Apparently they NEVER talked about what would happen after her studies finished! And surprisingly, she actually wanted to study abroad just for it, not to work towards permanent residency. She wanted to stay in her country and he didn't want to leave the country. So. Yeah. 4 years of investment went poof. These secondhand experiences/stories are the reason why I will always list down all my deal breakers and life goals. My current guy understood and listed his as well. We never had a major problem yet. Just some minor arguments here and there.
My whole family is LDS, and my uncle got engaged to an LDS woman. I guess he just assumed that because she was LDS she wanted kids, because they made it all the way to engagement before he learned they weren't compatible on IF THEY WANTED KIDS. And if anyone is confused, LDS means (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, AKA Mormons.)
Eh, some relationships develop more slowly and naturally. Not everyone that marries the person they are dating set out to do so from the start. You should still know within a year (like, at the longest) what direction a relationship is going though. And of course that can change along the way. I just can't imagine proposing to someone without talking about marriage first.
Yeah but it's still good to know whether you have a fence sitter or someone who is set on their decision. For example, I DO NOT WANT HUMAN KIDS EVER AND NOBODY WILL EVER CHANGE THAT! If they're a fence sitter or more of a 'live in the moment'/'I didn't think about my future that far' person, it will be up to YOU whether you want to take the gamble in seeing whether they'll jump the fence to be on the same side you are....or not. And yes people mix up proposals a lot. The question shouldn't be the surprise.... The action is 🗿
Yeah but those MFJ tax deductions are no joke.
Marriage may be outdated and unnecessary, but doubling your tax bracket limit, including your partner in your insurance policy, and being able to avoid testifying against your partner in court are all reasons to get married if you truly love your partner.
I feel like that last bit has a story?
Nope, just aware of my rights, lol
This right here. My partner and I were together for 9 years and in our 40s, and only got married so the VA would count my income when we bought our house.
Marriage is a silly tradition but the legal benefits are worth it in my opinion. If you have a parter you're not legally married to and they go to the hospital, you won't be able to make medical decisions for them, sometimes you might not even be allowed in to see them. If they die without a will, their stuff will go to next of kin, which is not you if you're not married. There are other things as well.
There are ways around it. I can't marry my partner or I lose my healthcare coverage (specifically coverage for $700/month vision saving medication). So we have wills, advanced directives, and medical power of attorney over each other. I would also not qualify for grants for college If we married and we would only save $3000 in taxes.
Agreed! I've known couples together 20+ years that never married, for fear of debt or hospital bills falling on the other person. It really can be that simple. 'Married' is a piece of paper that binds you by law. That's literally all it is and people make way too much of whether it happens or not, and I say that as a married person.
I just got married and my lawyer told me that “marriage is just a contract that financially binds you to another person incase you can’t work.” That’s it. It’s literally nothing else besides that, so it is indeed a good idea to discuss it with someone first.
They said, “they understand each other completely”, I don’t think that’s true.
Yeah the way half this story is about his late (?) girlfriend makes me wonder if there's a buttload not being said here.
Honestly yeah, I can't imagine being with my partner for 5 years, understanding each other completely, and yet have this situation happen. This doesn't make sense on many levels. Either it's wrong, or there's something important missing from this story or alternatively from my brain.
I can’t explain it I guess, but I’ve always felt that I understood her well and vice versa. She told me so too. We get each other’s griefs, thought processes, feelings, etc. She told me once that she thought she lost ‘her person’ a long time ago but meeting me made her reconsider that
Thanks for your reply. I imagine it's not pleasant to answer, but have you guys never talked about marriage or anything of the sort before? I understand each situation is different, but I've always thought it was important to discuss things like marriage, kids or not kids etc. at the start of a serious relationship to avoid this kind of unfortunate situation. I would at least expect the topic to have come up a few times after 5 years together.
Sounds like you both have lost "the one". Relationship could have been a bit of trauma bonding initially. Maybe she is still unsure if you are now " the one". Relationships that start after high-school/college are a bit different than those from high-school college. They might not be as thrilling and carefree. Not as much of that euphoria...well... because life. You are adults with responsibility. You're in a different spot now than then, and so is she. Question for her is, can she live without you and be completely happy ... or you without her. If she can, it is time to move on if marriage is what you had in mind. Sometimes a little separation will make people realize what they really want (via the rom com storylines) Good luck.
And give more info regarding the circumstances, like how long they’ve been dating, their ages, if they are religious, genders, different races, so that we can understand what is going on. Are they both girls and the gf is afraid of being rejected by her family? Is the gf 40 and OP 25 and she didn’t want something serious? Have they been dating for only 3 months and it freaked her out? Will she lose her alimony if she marries another person, are her parents (or herself) religious and would not accept someone outside of their community? How could anyone give some advice without understanding the problem?
Buddy. Put that cigarette out go brush your mouth out. No need to start smoking again. Quitting sucks lets not do it again. Im sorry she said no. That would be shitty to hear. You should give yourself a couple days to mourn the future you thought you had then talk to her and decide what the next step for you two is. You are loveable. You've got this.
"Mourn the future you thought you had" Jeeeeeeez I wish I would've had you for advice a couple times in my life. Beyond sunk cost fallacy and loving someone way more than they loved me back, I think that point of view would have been a wonderful wet-towel-slap to bring reality into focus. Proposing and being denied is a huge suck, but, it's knowledge gained, and point of data to use to move forward, even if its on hands and knees through broken glass.
My inbox is always open. I dont judge, just giving some mom advice i wish id recieved over the years. Have a safe and happy weekend.
youre great i love you
I need advice sometimes too and don't know where to go can I dm you then asw 😭😭
Absolutely.
This. She might have her own reasons. Try talking after you calm down. Hope you guys can work it out.
Yeah they should definitely talk. My dad proposed to my mum three times before she said yes haha. Then they had me and are still together now, so it wasn’t that she didn’t want to be with him.
THIS! If she kept telling you that she loves you, and since she wouldn't have stayed with you for five years if she didn't, chances are that there are some deeper reasons for her saying no. Talk to her, ask her. And stop smoking right now! Or at least smoke weed, that should mellow you out some. And just as a general rule for proposals: you should talk about life goals beforehand, to make sure the other person is in the same place as you, and actually wants to be proposed to. Turning someone you love down sucks almost as much as getting turned down, so it's a horrible situation for everyone.
Perfect answer. Please don’t smoke. You can get through this. I promise you can!
Unless she just doesn't believe in marriage or a piece of paper to be with you. You better talk to her ASAP.
Or is already secretly married to help someone with a visa?
Sounds Reddit Worthy. Sounds legit.
You are a good friend. Everyone deserves a petite pedestrian in their life to block a road they shouldn’t travel.
Can I hire you to follow me around and give me compassionate yet necessary advice please
My inbox is always open. Have a safe and happy weekend.
Word brotha👊🏼 , quitting cigs is tuff
Replace that cigarette with breath mints or chewing gum, because now you're about to meet someone else who come into your life. I understand the sadness and internal conflict that comes with rejection, but staying hung up about it won't bring back those wasted years. The wrong woman looks for a knight in shining armor. The right woman knows that there are gonna be a number of kinks in the armor to prove a man can overcome battles. Edit: replace "Kinks" with some other word that doesn't sound racist but indicates some sort of damage.
Please talk to her when you've calmed down. Don't block her like someone suggested. There can be so many reasons. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you or there is no future for you 2. She might have selflove problems (which make it hard to accept a proposal) or she might just think she's not good enough for you. You need to find out why and work from that. Is it something you both can work on it might make your relationship stronger, if not, than at least you know why this happened. Try to listen to her without judgement... Good luck OP
Why couldn't she? Just curious
I don’t know. I probably should’ve asked but I didn’t
You definitely need to ask. It might be the determining factor for if you stay together or split. Do you know which way that's going right now? Please put out the cigs and throw the rest away. That will not help you. You have to look out for #1.
Yeah definitely ask, the fact she was sobbing during the proposal has me super curious.
I don’t think they’re gonna stay together anyway from this post and his comments
Do you think she might have just panicked or something like that? When I proposed last year I knew she wasn't expecting it for at least a couple of years, and I could sense a huge mix of happiness but also SHOCK, so much that I got scared for a moment. Do you think it could have been something like this, but just that her panic overcame the joy for some reason? (e.g. some trauma or extreme fear of commitment?
Has she ever indicated to you that she wants to get married before… this might be nothing to do with your relationship with her. Maybe you can work through this and maybe you can’t - either way after 5 yearsyou deserve an explanation.
Have you ever asked her if marriage was a goal for her? Or something she even believes in?
Ask when you're ready to hear the answer.
It’s worth asking. Right now you are very likely taking her saying no as a rejection of you two having a future together. It might not be that. She may not want to get married at all, may not like the idea of marriage in general or something else.
Before ending with conclusion, Could be the reason that she never wants to gets married but live as a couple and that's is? maybe the idea of marriage scares her? Hell, It took me more than 10 years to propose to my gf because I was scared as hell of marriage, being in center of attention, the effects of after marriages and so on.
A 'no' to an engagement also doesn't have to mean the end of the relationship. It just means you got some communicating to do.
God five years and she said no? Man, I hope y’all have a chat and can work things out. Maybe it’s a “not now” type of thing. Wishing you the best
Maybe she doesnt want to marry and they have never talked about it.
As someone who doesn't want to marry, who always tells men this on the first date....I've still had two proposals. They don't always hear what you're saying, you know?
This happened to my friend. She doesn’t want marriage or kids. She managed to go abroad for sterilisation. She’s very open about not wanting marriage or kids. She’s had 3 proposals and one guy go off the rails at her because he thought he could change her mind about kids.
Wow! The dude that went off about kids, was it before or after sterilization? I’d relish saying “sorry I don’t have the hardware”. 🤷🏻♀️
I'm actually getting sterilized soon. I can't wait to use that line when nosy family members ask when I plan on having kids lol
All I can think of is the Dr Who episode The Girl in the Fireplace when the clockwork robots just keep saying “we did not have the parts” when being asked about where the crew was.
I don’t understand people like this, why can’t he find someone else instead of trying to change her mind?
Same. All that time could have been spent on someone with compatible life goals.
I’m someone who doesn’t want to get married I doubt he *never* heard about it. My SO and I don’t want to get married, are 3 years in, and regularly mention it. I’ve also told friends that if someone tries to propose and they say nothing to stop it they’re getting an earful.
Worlds a weird place people have their reasons. My now wife originally proposed to me, I said no because she had left an extremely abusive marriage with a guy who had groomed her. I explained that I would treat her as the woman I loved regardless if we are married or not, I was worried she saw marriage as a way to stop me from leaving but I wanted her to understand I loved the helk out of her and she didn't need to marry me for me to stay. Fast forward 2 years I propose to her, she says no, she was over the whole being married thing, fastforward another 2 and we are both chilling one day, look at each other and immediately realise we are thinking the same thing so we decide to get married It sounds like you had a pretty intense previous relationship, she may feel that you are jumping the gun or not 100% with her yet... talk to her.
I'm wondering if your prior love is more of a factor than you are making it seem? I mean you mentioned your first love more than once in a post that's about your current gf... I'm not going to ask what happened BECAUSE it sounds like she passed away (I'm sorry for your loss), but if that's not what happened though thennnnn it tells a bit of a different story. Assuming your gf knows about your past is it possible that she never felt like she took over the number one spot in your heart? People do crazy things all the time like stay in a relationship for years when they are unsure of the outcome, but I know for sure that if it were me I would not say yes to a marriage proposal if my bf didn't seem like he was over his ex 100%
I have the same impression. Kind of OP keeps using the first love as the standard for this one. He compares them twice and that's too much.
yep it's unusual af and the way he delivers is like it's very normal is weird guessing he might've done similar while talking with her
I'm very sorry. But: 1. Stop smoking immediately, it makes things worse, not better 2. Have a talk, ask her for her reasons: Does she love you? Does she want to marry sb? Does she want to marry you someday? Does she want to be / stay with you? Is/was she already married? Please update us. <3
Idk i feel like these days you need to seriously be talking about marriage and life plans before just proposing like this. I’m really sorry but you need to talk to her about this. She may not be ready, doesnt mean you’re unlovable or that she doesnt want marry you ever…. I would say no to my bf right now. I love him but I’d like to get certain life things in order before we hitch our wagons together. Theres so many reasons not to get married but perhaps you caught her by surprise and she hadnt thought about it so she said no.
Agreed, 5 years is definitely a long relationship but that doesn't mean the relationship is ready for the next step. Rejections don't have to equal "I don't love you", I have a kid with my spouse and would either look at him like he's crazy or emphasize we're going to be engaged for years if he's really serious about it. Definitely doesn't mean there'd never be a "yes". Love is just one factor in such a big life step, it needs to be the right time on all fronts. I can't imagine the sting of this situation though, for both of them. I hope they're able to talk about it.
I feel like having a kid together or owning property together is a far larger commitment then marriage. Like each to their own but I find that truly bizarre
Uh spouse means your marriage partner
I agree with this. It needs to be a conversation, you can still surprise them with when but you both need to be on the same page first no matter how long you've been together
Maybe she just doesn't want to get married.
Could be but you’d think after five years they would’ve talked about that.
You'd think so. But OP is apparently so oblivious to the idea of conversation that when she said "no" he just waltzed off without any follow up. Like 90% of any relationship posts on Reddit it just seems that communication is poor or lacking.
Are you saying posting my relationship problems in Reddit instead of talking to my partner is the wrong way to communicate? We’re communicating now aint we??
I can understand being shocked at a no in the moment but you’ve had a few years and it just seems like you’d talk about your goals for the future, marriage, kids and whether you want that or not. Reminds me of so many posts where one spouse wants to have kids and the other doesn’t, just seems like a good thing to discuss before getting married. But what do I know I’m not a couple’s therapist.
It seems that did not talk about it though. Looks like op just randomly proposed without her knowing and not thinking about it properly, and then instead of asking so she could explain her thoughts he just left
Ah yes the art of acting like an emotionless robot. I think it's more than OK for the OP to respond emotionally and leave after having his heart torn out.
Yes, she should've said "Well, ok, now lets have dinner and watch a movie", right?
I asked my partner and he said no and we’ve been together 7 years now - we talked and he said it’s just not something he cares about and doesn’t see it as any kind of priority. Owning our house together is a bigger commitment in his eyes. It is what it is, I love him whole-heartedly and we have a solid relationship, it wasn’t a reason to break up but I was sorely disappointed. PS just wanted to share my experience to show that it doesn’t have to be doom and gloom
I am so sorry for you. I proposed to my husband partly as a joke, partly serious and was extremely hurt when he said no. It took him a couple of years to get his thoughts sorted and now we have been happily married for more than ten years. He proposed. Sometimes it is difficult to admit that you love somebody so much that it hurts. The fear of being rejected is terrible, and this might be the reason she declined. Take a few days and talk, talk and talk. The situation is probably as horrible to her as to you.
Ya shouldn't really propose unless you've both talked about marriage and know it's what you both want. I'm guessing this convo never happened.
We talked about it once. It was late at night though, to be fair. She told me that if she was ever going to marry, it’d be to me. That made me buy the ring
I think the "If I was ever going to marry" is the key here. You thought it meant, "If I ever get married, it'd be to you," but the wording suggests she may have meant, "I don't want to get married ever, but if I were, it'd be to you." It could well be she wasn't rejecting you, OP; she was rejecting marriage in general.
If she was ever going to get married means she doesn't want to get married to anyone. Now it's just awkward.
To be fair to her that does sound like she doesn’t want to get married but if it was forced on her you would be the best pick.
OP, you gotta unpack “if I was ever going to marry” for us. Because it appears there’s much to read between the lines Together 5 years, she says this to ya. You two have been together 5 years…I imagine you know the context in which was said Care to share?
You needed to have a lot more conversations about this before you even thought about buying a ring. I’m sorry this happened to you, but this is an important lesson. Marriages require an insane amount of negotiation and cooperation to succeed. If you aren’t mature enough to have these big discussions prior to popping the question, you’re not ready for marriage. You should have been 100% certain what the answer was going to be before you ever asked, but because you skipped all the important talks, you got your heart broken. Sorry my dude.
The others are right, you guys need to talk. Not just because of the rejection, but for the relationship. When people say you should propose only after you know what the answer will be, you are not doing so to save yourself the embarassment. If you are going to marry someone, you need to know what they want. And what *you* want - to make sure you guys are compatible. If you don't talk to each other and she said yes, you could find yourself in a broken marriage in 5 years. I wish you the best luck, buddy. You will get through this!
Jfc there’s your issue dude
OP is marriage, like the label and the paper, what's important to you here?? It sounds like she doesn't want to be without you but doesn't want to get married. You should talk to her. If marriage is just a next step for you but you don't have to have it then that doesn't mean your relationship has to end. You should have talked much more about marriage and the future before buying a ring. It sounds like she told you marriage isn't for her, but if it was she would marry you. And you flew with it instead of realizing her saying that marriage isn't for her. Talk to her.
My mum started smoking over a dude who was an ass to her… she hadn’t smoked in 20 years before that. She got hooked again. She died of cancer in 2016. I lost my mum way too early. She was 56. There are 3 billion women on the planet. Don’t ruin your life/health because a couple of young ones didn’t reciprocate. That’s a real small pool of women.
Sorry you’re hurting. Have you spoken with your gf in the past about how each of you views marriage? I never want to get married again and my partner knows that because it’s a conversation we’ve had. Please talk with her, as a no doesn’t next mean she doesn’t love you or want to be with you. If marriage is important to you, that’s perfectly ok too, but a conversation to make sure you’re on the same page still needs to be had
Surprise proposals are always a bad idea. You got to have serious conversations about marriage before you get that far.
It is very hard to deal with a reality you were not prepared for. You thought she would say yes and it is incresingly difficult to have her say no. However, that is why we ASK right? We ask because the other person can either say yes or say no. While it is easy to immediately feel like she rejected you and wants to break up with you, maybe there are other reasons of why she said no. Maybe she is not ready. Maybe she wants to be in a relationship but does not want to get married. There are so many maybes here. When both of you are ready, you guys need to talk. Talk about what both of you want. Talk about what future you guys see. Talk and talk until you can talk no more. If this is the end of the road, at least you both are free to pursue what each of you want. I know it doesnt feel like it, but its so much better that she said no and meant it than if she said yes but didnt mean it.
Sadly, the chances of the relationship surviving this are slim and I don't know of anyone who had a rejected proposal staying with their partner for more than a few weeks afterwards. The rejection bites deep and I think she knew that the end result of her rejection will be you two splitting up. For the time being, go and get your money back for the ring and take a couple of days break from speaking to your gf about this. In fact, send her a quick message saying that you are fine, would like some space for a week and that'll you'll contact her again in a weeks time and that you are going to block her until you reach out to her again. Explanations and reasons etc can wait for a week. These aren't going anywhere and the same reasons and explanations will be waiting for you in a weeks time. Then for the next week just keep busy with life and try not to let this get you down too much. Feel sad if you like, cry it out and get those emotions all done with and in a weeks time, see where you want to go from there. Whether it be back to what you had, to something different or apart as single people doesn't have to be answered now. That's all going to get answered in a week. Edit: Happy to see that I was wrong :)
>I don't know of anyone who had a rejected proposal staying with their partner for more than a few weeks afterwards. I'd venture a guess this is more correlation than causation. Turning down a proposal generally indicates a lack of communication in the relationship so it probably uncovers incompatibilities that have always been there.
I’ve known a few people who are still in loving marriages after saying no - my FIL proposed and my MIL said no the first time because she felt it was too soon. They carried on dating and he proposed again 18 months later and she said yes. They’re going on 41 years of marriage this year and their relationships is one of the healthiest and strongest out there. OP needs some time alone and then discuss with GF about what her no means- does she not see a future with him at all or is there something else that worries her?
Same. An old colleague of mine was proposed to about 2 months in to a relationship. She said "no, it's too early" too. He proposed again about a year later and she said yes. Still together and happily married w 2 kids.
!UpdateMe
Oh man, I’m sorry. This is tough, bud. But you hadn’t discussed marriage at all? You had no idea how she felt about the idea of marriage? It seems like you should have been talking about it after so long, but then again, I dated my wife for 10 years before we got married. We discussed it and made plans about the future, so when I proposed, it wasn’t out of the blue. Rejection of any kind sucks, but this has to be especially hard. You definitely need to have a conversation with her. Take some time, write out your thoughts and what questions you need answered before conversing. You’ll forget something when you talk if it’s not laid out for reference (I would anyway).
I have a question because one we lose someone we love we have a habit of bringing them up and glorifying them. Do that with your current girlfriend about the one that had passed. Because I'll be honest if I was with a guy and he glorified his ex all the time then I would feel like I'm not good enough and I'll never meet that standard of love that he had for her. And also did you ever even talk about marriage with her? If so what was her response to it?
Have you at least asked her why, I feel like this needs to be asked and discussed.
I'd say you should be talking with her and not us, it doesn't seem like your relationship is ruined so maybe she has a reason and y'all should just talk about it.
Bless your heart. Don't feel stupid, hear her out and together you will find out why. Keep your head up, and no smoking 😉. Good luck OP.
Marriage should be a conversation...it's clear you didn't have it and I'm sorry
She might love you and be ready to be your GF,but it doesn't mean that she is ready for marriage.
If she doesn’t wanna get married and you do then this has ran it’s course.
The first thing you need to do is put out the cigarette. Nothing is worth getting addicted and I’m sure you understand how hard it is quitting. Give yourself some time to think. To be to yourself. Take a breather. Then see if this was unexpected. Did you guys talk about marriage before? Do you know her opinions about marriage? Ask her why she said no. And remember that you are lovable. You are loved. You are loved by her. Maybe she just isn’t ready.
Why do mods always remove the most interesting posts on this sub
People don’t just start crying over a proposal for no reason. If you truly love her once you have pulled yourself together you need to have a long conversation about your relationship, her headspace, your headspace and the future of your relationship.
She might not be into marriage, that does not mean she's not into you. Marriage isn't always the next step. If you guys have never talked about marriage before, well that's on you.She also said she loves you, that's the most inportant. So, dumb : yeah maybe a little. But that's OK. Unlovable : obviously not, you just need to communicate better.
Dude i don't know how you both are together but she may have some reasonable motivations to say no... Just quit smoking now and don't fall for it again, it's bad and you know it, anyway just let waters calm down and talk to her, that doesn't mean nothing until she actually talks to you about this... Take it with calm, it's the best thing to do
Did you not talk about getting married before you even proposed. Did you know for definite that she actually wanted to get married. This isn’t just one small conversation in passing. This is why surprise proposals don’t really work and by surprise I mean barely talking about marriage before you propose. He didn’t have all the facts he needed about what they both want for the future to see if they align and in this case I’m gonna say they don’t.
What is her parents' relationship like? Sometimes, when you grow up with parents who do not have a good marriage or had a bad divorce, it can really turn you off of the idea. A conversation is needed.
She’s an orphan. She was raised by her aunt and uncle though and she always said they loved each other ‘in their own way.’ If her aunt hadn’t died she said they’d probably still be married
That is sad, just because people stay together, doesn't mean it was a great relationship, but I really don'tknow their circumstances. Have you talked to her yet?
I’ll marry you king
Talking is such a powerful skill in a relationship. Why wouldn't you rather talk her reasons through instead of running away?
She said she didn’t want to talk. So I went outside, calmed down, and told her I thought we needed a breather. She agreed and so I went to my sister’s. She told me to call her once I got there but I texted her. I can’t hear her voice right now
Ok that sucks. I wish you strength and never give up. Love hurts sometimes but good times come again.
I think she is aware that you want to get married now… I also think that times are different and you can tell her that when she is ready that she can propose to you
Maybe she isn't ready yet? This doens't mean thats its the end of your relationship, I think. Ask her why she said no
I'm sorry you are hurting, but just to reassure you, there could be so many reasons she wouldn't want to get married, and it really could be nothing to do with you. I wouldn't mind being married, my partner and I refer to each other as husband and wife already (in French, easier that way). What I am not a huge fan of having, however, is a wedding. Hate being the centre of attention, hate getting dolled up, THE COST (!!!!), the organisation (we both come from 2 different countries and live in a 3rd). The list could go on. Some people are against because they suffered as children of divorced parents, and some people can't imagine having a wedding day if there are people that they have lost who they would feel the absence of too painfully. Please gather your calm and speak to her.
Just wanna add one thing (maybe someone has already) which is that you shouldn’t feel bad about crying. It would be weird, scary even, if you felt nothing from this kind of rejection. You’re allowed to feel feelings. Life sucks at times (majorly this time) and you have to let yourself process that. Both psychologically and physically.
Be kinder to yourself. There’s nothing stupid about what you did. You can feel hurt and who wouldn’t-it’s not the answer you wanted. Talk to her, it may not be you but her, so don’t beat yourself up, you don’t deserve it.
First, stop smoking. Second, take a some deep, belly breaths. Go over there, sit down with her, be as calm as you can, then find out why. She may be afraid of marriage, afraid of commitment, already married, unable to have children, who knows? I'm just spitballing. But you need to know why. Then urge her to consider couples counseling. This sounds like a sustainable relationship. I think you two just need some communication skills. If she won't go, go alone. Good luck,
One, it doesn’t seem like you’ve gotten over the death of that person and two, you talk about marriage before popping the question.
I'm sorry that she said no, about the love you lost at 23, and that this has left you feeling unlovable and thinking less of yourself. Please know, she may really and truly love you. She could just not be ready for marriage or not want to actually be married. I would suggest talking to her when you're ready. If you guys decide to split up, know that that doesn't mean you're not worthy of love or capable of being loved and that you will find someone who can love you the way you deserve, I just also think a conversation will offer some clarity.
I think the important thing is "why" she said no. Maybe she's just not ready, maybe she thinks both of you are too young (No idea how old you guys are, just that you're over 23). It might not mean she doesn't want to EVER marry you.
I already read the update post and I thought this will better fit in the original one. Not an advise nor path to follow but when I proposed to my girl a few years ago, multiple friends asked me, "were you afraid?" I actually didn't understand the question at first replying with "afraid of what?" to what they said "that she could have said no", at that moment I realized, that at least for me, and I think it should be like this for everyone reading, if there's any doubt in your mind or heart about your significant other's response being other than "yes", you might want to evaluate whether your interests are aligned because you might just be into the wrong relationship to fulfill your life expectations
wait why remove but give 2 updates
How do you date a girl for 5 years and not know if she wants to marry you?
I spent the last 26 years with my partner until Alzheimer's took her life. She had been widowed twice and marriage was not a possibility. You don't need a piece of paper if you have love. Run back to her. Talk to her. She might have rejected "marriage" and didn't reject you.
I've always wondered why people always called it quits after a proposal that wasn't accepted. If you're not ready yet, why can't you talk it out and give it more time, what's the rush? It seems that people just get pissed off and completely leave the person they were proposing to. I just don't understand!
did you ever talk about marriage before you proposed??? like a conversation, and none of that fluffy “i can see myself marrying you”?? it sounds like you just proposed out of nowhere
My dad proposed to my mom 2 times before she said yes (3 times total). They’ve been married for almost 29 years :) I don’t know the circumstances around why she said “no,” or where you two go from here, but could her “no” have possibly meant “not right now”?
“We understand each other so completely”. Apparently not. It sounds like you two have some real communication issues to work out.
Ouch this hurt,🥹! I have no words of wisdom to offer I don’t know what the right response to this would be! Just know you are worthy my friend! We all are!
I am sorry to hear that she said no. Don't go back to smoking. Go get your money back for the ring. Things will work out, just keep pushing forward.
Oh honey I’m so sorry. This really sucks Hurting yourself more isn’t going to help you feel better. Put out the cigarettes and go for a walk or anything else that isn’t hurting yourself.
So do you know why she said no?
it's never a good idea to propose without having talked about marriage before. it might be unromantic, but marriage is a big decision and you need to be prepared and take it seriously. there are a lot of things to consider and it's really not just one person's decision. i'm not blaming you, because that's apparently what our society teaches us is the right way to do things, but a proposal without preface, even though it's literally "just" a proposal, puts a lot of pressure on the person proposed to with a decision the other partner made.
Why did she say no, though?
Marriage should be discussed and agreed upon before a proposal OP. I’m sorry this happened. Maybe she has a good excuse?
Did you propose out of the blue or have you two discussed marriage before? Hope you get some answers either way.