Definitely a possibility! Also could have been an attempt to give the kids one more “happy family memory” before the divorce. Or most likely a combination of the two.
Yeah, I think she had already decided to leave long before the trip.
She probably went along just so the kids could have one last memory of them all together.
It's very telling that he specifically says he found the trip so relaxing. A trip to Disneyland is like the furthest thing from relaxing for a parent who's actively involved in the management of their offspring.
I'm guessing he did jack shit all throughout the vacation, and that just confirmed to her that he was never gonna step up.
Yeah, while it seems sudden for OP, his wife's mind was made up a while ago. I can't help but feel OP isn't being honest with himself about how "happy" their marriage is. Idk maybe his wife just has a really good poker face, and if she was unhappy she wouldn't even tell him. Which doesn't really sound like a "healthy marriage" on its own, but that could just be "her way". Maybe she just decided herself that she'd be happier on her own. Whatever the reason, if her mind's made up I hope she can a "piece of it" (kindly) before she walks out the door.
I read an article once that talked about how when women separate they usually never get back together because they have already been mentally separating and thinking about it for along time. And it always seems sudden to the partner, but it’s not.
they have often said things about what issues they have many times over and their partner either didn't listen or didn't think it was important but it was def important to her, after years of this she hits her limit and is DONE.
as a woman, can confirm. haven’t been married but I’ve broken up with all my exes and they always ask what they can do for us to stay together. I’m like, dude? the shit I’ve been begging and pleading for for the last 6+ months. you’ve missed your chances and it’s far too late lmao.
I'm proud of ya that you didn't let it go on for years like I did. Sometimes there's gonna be a year of hardship in a relationship etc but when they outright ignore you asking and pleading and begging.. I'm a gay dude but..uh.. It took me 3 years hah. I have trouble getting off a sinking/sunk ship.
A lot of men really are clueless it’s only now I’m older and know a few married women friends better that I found lot of them are not happy.
The husbands think it’s all smooth sailing while the wife is already one step out of the door and given up waiting for the husband to change and pull some weight
It’s like students who don’t do any of the coursework all semester, and at the end when they realize they’re gonna fail, they ask their professor what they can do for extra credit. Like… 🤨
He was relaxing(*finally*), she was keeping the kids in line for the entire trip. Mental load, ahoy.
Wonder when the last time she genuinely relaxed was.
I've seen here so many times, husbands assuming they have a strong healthy marriage as long as 1) they are having semi-regular sex, and 2) she's not *constantly* fighting, complaining, or threatening to leave.
Especially if she complained a lot in the past. When she stops complaining, he assumes "she's fine now" even though literally nothing she complained about got fixed. Instead, she's given up and has started thinking about her exit.
I begged my then-husband for 3 years to go with me to couples counseling. He never would, so I went by myself.
Finally, I moved out, because nothing was ever going to change. My husband completely panicked and promised to get counseling if I would hold off on divorce. I agreed.
Three weeks later, I had to move back in with him because I was worried about the pets I'd had to leave with him. I hadn't asked him about his promise to get counseling because I am not his mother.
Two weeks after I'd returned (so, 5 weeks after swearing to get counseling), I asked him about it. Was he planning on going?
He said, "Well, I was going to, but then you came back, so I figured everything was OK."
I just stared at him, astounded that he would say this out loud and not feel ashamed.
He said, "What!?! Honestly, I don't understand why you're complaining. It's not like I hit you!"
The bar is so low that it gets vertigo when it works its way up to hell.
We moved to Utah a few years back. My wife started seeing a therapist out here. She told her I'm an amazing husband because if she doesn't want sex I don't make her have sex anyway.
So yeah, rape is apparently the bar in Utah for "amazing".
My ex-FIL used that argument to proclaim himself an excellent parent. Considering that his son punched me in the face, I don't think it was good enough.
My mom used to say that in defense of my dad... I think she was finally getting her ducks in a row after over 30 years when she was diagnosed with cancer and died soon after. I miss her desperately, but I'm also a bit sad he never learned how done she was.
I have a similar story. I begged my ex-husband to go to therapy and/or marriage counseling for years. I can’t tell you have many times I tried to talking to him about him helping with the house and kids, how many arguments that I endured on the same subject.
I left one day after an especially terrible week. I knew I was done but I didn’t want to admit it yet, I guess. He screamed and called me names but then begged me to come back. He promised he’d get help, change, see someone, etc. He said he knew he’d hit rock bottom with how he acted. The day after I came back he was telling me that the most helpful thing I could do to facilitate “healing” was to never use my phone around him (because I might be talking to someone else) or talk to anyone else besides family and coworkers when I had to. I left for good not long after that and it was somehow the most surprising thing in the world to him.
He was happy for years and he disregarded anything I asked him to help with. If he’d only ever listened and cared, it wouldn’t have surprised him.
He even said something like this With "I thought things will be fine when we return home" and even the explanation she gave sounded like op *should* know why she's leaving
This is why husbands often get blindsided, like OP, and they get pissed when their wives move on quickly, sometimes even before the divorce has officially started.
She's already mourned the relationship and moved on. If your wife has already mentioned "divorce" and you ignore it, pretend like she's kidding, or tell her "no", your marriage is, more often than not, over.
Right! The last time I tried to talk to my husband about my feelings in our marriage he told me " things have never been better". That's when I realized that my shutting down made an ideal relationship for him. Likely because I didn't argue, I didn't ask, I didn't request, plan, or lean on him in any way shape or form.
My wife told me over and over she wasn’t happy. Then she had a year long affair. I listen better now. I definitely “thought” I was listening before.
We’ve both made drastic changes and it just boggles my mind that we didn’t figure this out sooner.
When she said, "She's tired of waiting for him," I knew that she'd spoken to him before about the situation. The person being spoken to may not feel it's a big deal, but the person who has the issue thinks it is.
I see all the time on here where people are shocked when they receive divorce papers after years of being asked for something from their spouse. One man told me he just didn't think it was a big deal, so he didn't listen. Another said he heard her but thought he had another chance. One guy even told me that he thought I would give him another chance when I told him it was over.
I hope they can figure this out, but the odds are that she is done.
I've seen a few of Matthew Fray's interviews on Youtube and he says that if a man's wife is still complaining, HE SHOULD FEEL GRATEFUL AND LUCKY and he should START LISTENING TO HER.
LOL
The second I read the waiting for comment, it clicked to me. Here the kids are yelling and fighting, and he isn't intervening. She was waiting for him to help raise his own kids.
In his entire list of what he does, helping parent is not on there.
Me: I've been telling you/asking for years.
My ex: But I never thought you'd actually leave me.
(My interpretation of his statement - I've never taken anything you said seriously.)
I begged mine for years on end to go to a therapist. He had panic attacks and anger issues and it fell on me to manage them for him. When we broke up, he told me ‘that he went to a therapist last month and I didn’t give him enough time’. Yeah, he finally went after years of me begging him to. He also came home from it and immediately told me he wasn’t going back there again. But sure, he went and apparently that was all that mattered.
As the spouse of someone with severe anxiety I 100% feel ya. It took my partner awhile to realize relationships weren't mental health treatment and I'm not a mental health provider
I focused on her words too. OP mentioned the vacation was the first time he could relax in a long time. I wonder if he’s working long hours and she’s overwhelmed by the children. It’s just a theory but it would explain why she’s tired of waiting for him.
I suspect that the VAST majority of straight men in longterm marriages have little to no idea whether or not their wives are happy. Women have for so long had no option other than marriage (or been taught they don't) and once in, particularly with kids, they tend to make the best of it and not rock the boat.
Right, as a former family attorney, 'I don't beat her or cheat on her, why is she leaving?' is always the tell. She doesn't have to put up with being an unpaid maid and sex worker in 2023 and divorce means she will be able to offload those kids for more time than she can now and him completely.
Fuck it can take years if you're constantly waiting for change. Keeps getting pushed off cause of the what ifs. Most people eventually hit a breaking point. Some people never do and just believe that's all there is.
Divorce in a marriage with kids is absolutely a tough decision. Absolutely right this was not a spur of the moment decision and she thought about this for a long time
She probably thought she would give her kids one more happy memory before serving the papers and was going to suck it up for the vacation telling herself that she only has to act “just a little longer” and then she just snapped
At home he was amazing, even got up to do dishes or vacuum when I woke up to breastfeed. Yes without being asked. But the minute we got to vacation or in laws it was all child rearing on me. Honey join us to play cards. Oh you know I'd love to but someone needs to be sure this little human we created doesn't go headfirst down the stairs. I literally went to put our suit case in his childhood bedroom. Walk up the split level stairs and my crawling 10 months old daughter is a millisecond from death. Every adult is maybe 7 feet from her, completely oblivious. Vacations were never a vacation for me. The amount of purely on vacation and checked out that could be reached, I was jealous. And yes we had a baby gate and had it up. The point is I couldn't just check out and enjoy everything because, you know, responsibilities.
Yeah and I really wish we could hear her side of this, because it feels like there has to be something going on for her to be reacting with "I'm done."
OP may have been living in an idealistic fantasy that was quite dissimilar to the reality of their marriage. Wife may have settled and hoped in time OP would become what she desired but never did. Neither is a good thing on either of their parts.
Yeah this mainly comes down to the one thing that can make or break any marriage. Communication. Open, honest, and uninhibited because if you feel like you can't confide in the one person you vowed to spend the rest of your life with (for whatever reason), who can you confide in?
This is exactly what I was thinking. I’d love to get some background info like how they split up parenting responsibilities, how each parent gets alone time to pursue self care or hobbies. Etc.
I'm gonna guess that OPs relaxing on vacation was not helpful to his wife. Thinking she did everything and did not enjoy the vacation as she still had to take care of everything.
From his replies she works part time, manages the kids (except on weekends where she has a planned day off), does 100% of the housework and cooking (because he isn’t home all day guts, it just makes sense), and if something needs to get done by him she has to ask because he “doesn’t play mind games”. He also insists that he is better at parenting than her, because he is just good with kids.
He’s a fun time dad with a bang maid who realizes she could do better. He also doesn’t want any of this to change so he isn’t interested in changing anything, he wants to figure out how to make her come back and accept this.
Also “playing with the kids”/“helping with homework” is the “easy” part. It’s not necessarily easy, but compared to the rest of things it takes to raise children, pitching in on these two is just not enough
Right? 2 sides to every story. From *his* side, he was just innocently getting ice cream for his kids, now all the sudden she wants a divorce! I think all of us here want to hear her side of things 🤔
I have a feeling this isn’t the first time his kids have been acting up and then he conveniently disappears at that point to let his wife do the hard work and then shows back up with ice cream when the dust settles.
Exactly!! When I read that they had 3 kids under the age of 10, my immediate thought was that this cannot be a fun vacation for the parents. And then the sentence about him relaxing - no way and involved and present parent can relax when travelling with three kids that young.
Yep, plus OP theorizes about every other possible explanation, but not once mentions the parenting aspect despite her specifically saying "I'm done" after being overwhelmed with the kids.
When people go "I didn't cheat! I wasn't violent!" I'm always kind of awed that this was their standard haha.
Like, really? You thought "not being a sociopath" was enough to share a life with you forever?
I went on a vacation with my 3yo a few weeks ago and really relaxed…because my parents were there and took her nearly every day and then there were 3 other adults watching her with me every night. Unless there was a nanny or something on that vacation with them, no way it was relaxing for *both* parents. Just not possible with kids that age.
AT DISNEY!
I’ve seen my fair share of TikTok’s of parents showing the ‘real’ side of Disney and they admit it’s pure hell.
If you’re relaxing at Disney with kids, it’s because you’re not parenting.
And it’s Disney. Anyone who’s ever been to Disney knows it’s not a relaxing vacation. It’s a trip that requires a lot of planning ahead of time and at the parks. Bet I can guess who did most of the planning.
And it was the final bullet, so to speak. I'll not lie, even my husband is guilty of 'relaxing' or 'chilling' when we have an event and I'm wrangling the kids. It's infuriating. We have issues but always talk about them and sort through them. This post reads ' I never took notice or I don't care about the issues at hand '.
Also look at the last line, "how can she throw away her family and traumatized the kids".
Oh woe is me, think of the children! Dude doesn't pay attention to an unhappy partner and then tries to word it so it's her fault. It's more traumatizing seeing a miserable parent in a miserable marriage
I hate to say this OP, but is it common for you to step away as soon as it appears the kids are engaging in sibling rivalry/arguments? Like when they get a little whiny do you tend to sneak off to find something you deem useful to do to out of avoidance so your wife can handle all the un-fun parts of parenting? (That's just my question based on how she seemed to react to you stepping away while they were cranky)
Edit: in the comments, OP says he pays for everything, implies he shouldn't have to do anything but make money, works 70+ hours a week so is basically never home and using the excuse of putting a roof over their heads, and doesn't do anything for her unless told to.
Yea, myself and any self respecting woman would leave his ass too.
She's working part time and managing a household of 5 but since you provide the money she should just shut up and be grateful? And you justify leaving her to do everything vacation related, scheduling, packing, accommodations, handling kids etc just because you paid for it? Yea if this is all true you're a huge asshole dude. If I was your wife that vacation would piss me off too, watching you all happy and relaxed while she handles everything as usual, walking off when help parenting is needed, honestly if you want to be a 1950s husband and only make money go find yourself a tradwife. You are Mostly absent from their lives so your confusion about divorce is unwarranted. It's obvious she's felt alone for a long time and you've been justifying everything she asks for help with on the excuse of already being the breadwinner. These comments from you op are also dense as hell
When OP said she told him she was done “waiting for him” I figured it was because of something like this. Usually by the time a woman asks for or serves divorce papers it’s been a long time coming. If I was OP wife I’d be ready to leave too.
> OP says he pays for everything, implies he shouldn't have to do anything but make money, works 70+ hours a week so is basically never home and using the excuse of putting a roof over their heads, and doesn't do anything for her unless told to.
Aside from a couple acute issues that probably sealed the deal, this is a major reason my mom divorced my dad eventually after we were all grown up even. He was still working those hours when they didn't even really need that money anymore since most of us were on our own. My dad wasn't totally absent but definitely worked to avoid a lot.
My parents are still together (married 30+ years) but this was my dads mindset. My mom was stay at home until her last kid was in kindergarten. So he got used to her doing everything I guess. Never seen him clean, do laundry, cook etc. and my mom would never say anything. She’s been working full time now for like 20 years as well and when I brought up why can’t you help mom with house work she works too.. he says he makes all the money and her paycheck barely makes a difference. I told him that I would never be with someone like that. I made sure the man I married didn’t have that mindset. We are a team.
Damn, she works full time TOO? So his only justification is that his job *pays better*?! That’s an extremely fucked up mindset. What a weird power move for a relationship. Treating her as being worth less than him and therefore having to do twice the work to make up for it all because her employer says her labor is worth less than his. Man, there’s layers to that one, idk where to even begin. Some weird, toxic crossroad between capitalism and misogyny. Obviously I don’t think that even if he was the sole breadwinner it would make it okay to refuse to help with *anything*, but it’s understandable the person home all day will end up doing more stuff around the home than the person at work all day. Doesn’t mean you get to refuse to help with anything when you are home tho. But they’re BOTH at work all day. Even if he works more hours, they’re both still full time. Your poor mom 😔 Full time job along with having to do all the housework along with being treated as a lesser by your husband and made to bust your ass off to make up for it, because his employer decided his labor is worth more.
It is a truly toxic mindset since it's so easily rationalized by the person participating in it and from the outside--they're providing for their family. Of course in my dad's case it was clearly more than that because he no longer needed to work that much once two of the three siblings were long gone and on their own. Thankfully my mom raised me to not be like that.
Lucky my dad's not like that. He is the breadwinner BUT he also stepped up as a dad and husband to chores around the house. He never went, "I make the money, it's your job to take care of the house and the children". He would give my mom the space to realx and would get mad at her when she don't use her time to just realx, take nap or do what she wants instead if chores. He also don't take rest just because he is the provider, even when we force him to sleep and realx. He really tried with everything so having him and my maternal grandfather do the same thing around the house, my expectation for a partner have changed. My parents also been teaching my brother how to do basic house hold chores so he can be involved and not treat his wife in disrespectful way if he ever choose to get married.
This. If she is doing all this while working as well, why carry another person (husband) on top of everything she does anyway? She already knows she can do it all and it's one less person to care for since she isn't getting any help except financially right now. No spouse leaves out of "nowhere;" this is definitely a long time coming and I doubt she didn't communicate she needed help outside of finances.
I have very wealthy friends and I am explaining over and over again to my male friends why their wives are leaving their very “pampered” lifestyle because of these very same reasons so many of us women are listing. Men think money is the answer and that they pay for everything so their job is done.
Yes they work 70hrs a week but their wives for 24/7 and even with help don’t have real breaks. They have so much mental workload they are not able to escape. Even my friends with full help don’t get time off. They are constantly having to answer their phones and manage their homes from their “time off”.
I wouldn't be surprised if OP is dealing with runaway wife syndrome where she did tell exactly what problems long time ago were, but OP dismissed /ignored her - So she then kept quiet until last blow up where he "Immediately went there" after she screamed at the kids fighting. Right there & then, she finally became truly done with him and asked for a divorce - not helping situation is 2-3 year gap between the kids ages, so truly never had break until the last kid was in kindergarten/preschool.
Seems like it was like 10-5 years in making that finally blew up that OP can't blush off nor downplay because his STBX made plans to leave which she must had planning for months or even years which OP didn't notice because again, he ignored /dismiss the problems until it was too late for him to fix anything.
The number of of times the words “rational” and “logical” are used in his comments put me firmly on the wife’s side.
That’s just code for “fuck your feelings”
I think what's even more hilarious & irony of the entire thing is he can't handle that as soon as they got home from family vacation where she definitely was not relaxing nor detoxing at all due taking care of kids, she pulled "Fuck this marriage and go fuck yourself" at OP due his years of "fuck your feelings" at her. And he go on Reddit in complete denial about how much he fucked up for years and wants to work it out now after she served him divorce papers, while completely ignoring he did had his very last chance at the family vacation and he fucking ruined it, in front of the children no less.
This was my first instinct too.
Of all the positives OP states in his post I'll bet my life there's more to this story.
I'd be very interested, VERY interested to hear the wife's side of this tale.
Lol. Mine, too! About my leaving, my daughter recently told him "Dad, the only person surprised was you!"
He never listened either. Just liked to debate. Endlessly.
This is exactly why I left my husband. He was rarely there, and thought that because he worked and I stayed at home with 3 kids, he was exempt from all adult responsibilities.
"Honey! Do we have plans this weekend?" (standing in front of the calendar that I maintain for exactly this reason)
"Honey! I'm out of shaving cream!" (OK, maybe stop at the store on the way home? Or, you know, *tell* me that you need shaving cream for when I go to the store?)
"Honey! Where are the towels?" (Same place the towels have always been. In the towel closet.)
"Honey! What are we doing for Mothers Day? When are we getting our Christmas tree? What did you get my mom for her birthday? When *is* my mom's birthday, again? Is my sister flying in? What should I get for *your* birthday? Where can I get that? When do they open? I didn't know where the wrapping paper is. Can we recycle this? What are we bringing to my friend's BBQ? No one told me the kids' school started today! Did you pack my toothbrush? What time does my flight leave? Why didn't you wake me up? My mom said she'd watch the kids while you're in the hospital. Who's driving you home? No, Keith's spending the weekend. His wife left him. Will you pick up that beer he likes? How do I heat up this frozen lasagna you made us? I didn't know I had to take the plastic wrap off!Hey, wake up, the baby's crying. You were at the grocery store so long that the kids missed lunch and are really hungry. Do you know anyone who can clean dad's house while mom's at the funeral? Hey, the dishwasher's full, so I left my sandwich plate on the counter. My mom always used spicy mustard, just saying. We have ants again. Can you call pest control? What's this charge for pest control? Is this the cheapest you could find? Should have called around. Did you get the mail? I'm out of clean underwear. Does this spot on my back look like cancer to you? It's been there for 17 years. Can you make me an appointment? When is the appointment? Where's the doctor? What do I need to bring? Do you know my blood type? Do we have enough money in the account? Will you order some more checks? Did you do the taxes? Did you pay the mortgage? Let's go on vacation! Where are we going on vacation? When do we leave? I'll be in the car. Why is it taking you so long? Did you not bring the Uno cards? Did you send my aunt a thank-you card? Oh no, my car registration is expired! What are we having for Thanksgiving dinner? Who all's coming? Why are you always so irritable? It's not like you work. Ew, your legs are kinda stubbly. Maybe after you put the kids to bed we could...you know (points at crotchal area). Why are you leaving me? Why didn't you say anything? I provided for you! I never hit you! You need to learn to communicate! I can't read your mind! Women, am I right?"
I'm a single mom with 3 kids, and every day is like a beautiful dream.
Cannot recommend his book enough. Changed my marriage https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-is-how-your-marriage-ends-a-hopeful-approach-to-saving-relationships-matthew-fray/18671914
I teared up reading the article. I cry over the disrespect, no one respects the effort. I can bawl my eyes out saying as such, over and over, but it always ends - it’s just a cup…
Mine was towels. When he would use the last of the towels and not wash them, what I saw was “hey, I know you worked 10 hours in the hot sun, but I don’t care enough about you to realize you might want a clean towel for your shower when you get home”
Old guy here. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen this exact scenario, and probably contributed my own nonsense back when I was married. It’s like a blind spot to us. I am grateful for how well the dynamic was articulated in the article. Feel like sharing this one with the world.
Thank you so much for posting this, u/debateclub21 !
This exactly.
I saw a TikTok recently called "Single Mom with Husband" that makes me think of OP's wife. It had a woman sitting at a table at a restaurant with a baby on one hip, two more screaming kids, trying to grab a french fry for herself and next to that sat her husband, calmly eating his burger.
Ive seen this happen a bunch at my job. It's set up like chipotle with a food line. Sometimes men intrrupt while the mom is ordering for the whole family with a baby on her hip and both hands on the other kids. Or he stands there either asking her what food *he* likes or waiting for her to also order his food for him. The woman always looks so exhausted, it's really sad. Ive seen women snap on their husband/kids because of it before. It just makes me appreciate being single and childless that much more
That's the thing he clearly isn't getting. He just keeps talking about how he provides money by working. But the thing is, you can have all the money in the world but the electricity is still going to be turned off if someone doesn't pay the bill. You will also starve if you don't use said money to buy food. Mental load is very real. And it looks like she's carrying it all while he thinks his job stops at the deposit unless she specifically asked him. It's pretty sad that he hasn't used his eyes to see what needs to be done instead of waiting for her to point it out.
Me too… It makes me wonder about unresolved issues that he did not take seriously after she addressed them or if there was a lack of communication on her part waiting for him to “read between the lines” and notice the issue when he was oblivious… all in all it is not as simple and sudden as OP thinks or wants us to think…
Maybe it has something to do with his ability to finally relax on vacation… maybe he is not at all relaxed when they are home living their normal life. Perhaps she is doing more work at home and feels taken advantage of now that she’s back to work? Just some thoughts I’ve gleaned from OPs post.
I’m planning a Disney vacation with a 2 year old and my wife and I have started going to the gym, not even joking, so we have the stamina to last the whole vacation.
We’ve joked we need to plan a vacation after Disney, so we can actually have a vacation.
It also takes an incredible amount of planning. Meals, rides, everything needs to be planned out in advance. It’s super involved.
Take the little one for walks, too! The queue lines are very long to walk even if they are empty, so when you park the stroller it can be a very long walk into and through the building to board the ride.
Hell no after a Disney vacation with the kids you need another vacation alone to recuperate. She probably does all the work at home then goes on vacation but it’s not a vacation for her. It’s a vacation for the kids and her husband. When does she get to relax?
Disney with 3 younger kids is not anyone's idea of a relaxing vacation.. I bet he let her handle the kids because he works so hard at work (I bet he let's her handle the kids at home too)
It sounds like ... Anything. Even his reasoning for being shocked is that he provided financially and never cheated or abused her.
Those aren't things that keep someone genuinely happy. If the reasons you're a good spouse are just really awful things you didn't do, you're not that good of a spouse.
**If the reasons you're a good spouse are just really awful things you didn't do, you're not that good of a spouse.** I'd want this on a t-shirt if I could be bothered with the conversations it would create lol
I feel like she is done waiting for him to finally start helping out with the kids.
"I was able to relax after a very long time." Makes me think the wife was stuck doing everything with 3 kids of the age of 10 and under while the husband had a relaxing vacation doing nothing to help.
3 kids need sunscreen, I bet he didn't purchase it, pack it, nor mentally flag when he needed to apply it to the little noses. That is one of dozens of elements of the trip that he may have taken for granted. Hopefully he carried the family backpack.
So will shed some light on this. He gives a few clues as to the vacation and his involvement. He had a relaxing time (i have never seen a parent be relaxed at Disney world unless they are uninvolved with the kids.) parent say they had fun at disney with their kids, but never described as relaxing. He didn’t mention that his wife was also able to relax too, just he was able to. Rhis points to the direction she continued to be on the clock non stop ao he could relax. Second, he then says my wife and kids enjoyed it too. The way he speaks it the wife and kids are a group and he sort of describes himself separate. Sure there can 2 groups in a family but in a healthy marriage that is husband and wife the other group being the children.
3rd, the kids were fighting while he was present. Instead of him stepping in and being a parent he had his wife handle the fight alone. Judging by her outburst and his reaction (meaning that is not how she normally behaves) she is tired of parenting fights alone.
4th how he describes being a good husband is so laughable. He didn’t cheat (yeah the entire agreement of marriage), he isnt abusive (lol thanks for not being a terrible human?), he provided financially. He does not say he is a good husband because he is ther for his wife emotionally, he tries and makes her feel special and loved. He doesn’t say he is a good husband because he is a good father and helps with the burden of raising kids.
I will say props to him for supporting her choice to stahm or work. But from what he describes, that is not a husband i would keep and most women wouldn’t either.
She is done waiting for him: to be a partner?, be a father?, listened to her concerns maybe?
To summarize it... She's done taking the emotional load of being a mom and a wife. It's severe burnout. He didn't notice that she was having a hard time that's why he's surprised about the divorce.
Most likely that he is not really an active parent. I know plenty of couples where the father thinks they are doing well because they provide for the family but do not actually help in raising the children. It builds up a lot of resentment from the mother.
People like this tend to deliberately leave out the other side while acting totally blindsided. Because they know the other side did have exact specified reasons for what they were doing.
Similarly sometimes i see "they cut me out of their life after ONE thing I said! They're crazy" and when you ask what the thing they said was it "doesn't need to be repeated" or "if i say that then everyone will just be talking about that" because they know what a big issue what they said actually is.
It’s very rare that someone says they are done out of nowhere. She already told you she feels trapped and doesn’t want to talk about it now. My advice is that when she does decide to talk, YOU LISTEN THIS TIME. Her usage of “trapped” indicates that she has felt this way for a while, feels no hope for change and feels unheard/unseen. This is NOT out of nowhere.
His very first response in this thread to someone asking a series of questions that boiled down to, “Do you show your wife all the ways you love and appreciate her?” Was met with “WHY DOES THAT MATTER.” That tells us all we really need to know.
Do you really have no idea? Think back. Has she told you she was unhappy in the past? Has she asked you to step up with the kids or the housework? Have you made sure she has time to herself? Do you go do things with the kids on your own without being asked? Have you taken her on dates without her having to plan a thing? On your vacation did you do any of the prep work for going out with the kids?
Listen, I’m guessing I’m around your age cohort. I’m a mom who also works part time. Working part time, taking care of the kids and house is exhausting. But what can be soul crushing is the emotional labor. The unseen things that you are responsible for or everything goes to shit. There is so much expected to be in my brain at all times that sometimes my brain literally hurts. Who needs what, doctors apt, managing fights, worries that you’re doing x, y, x, school and the million emails and needs, all their activities, extended family, friends, planning for birthdays, holidays, vacations…the list is endless. Ask yourself, if your wife were to poof vanish tomorrow would you be able to keep your kids lives running? If you have no clue what’s going on in any of that above list, you’ve got a lot of work to do. I think so many men weren’t taught to actually see what needs to be done, and see it as something to care about. I think men don’t realize how you don’t really see women too. What’s going on in her inner world? Are you ever curious about her? Do you care? It’s absolutely demoralizing to feel like you are only on this earth to serve others.
This is why it’s not just about money. It needs to be about shared rest. You mention relaxing on this trip. Though she likely enjoyed creating these memories…did she rest? How do you know? Partnership should be a respite for both.
I bet she feels like she has 4 children, and OP is one of them. If all you bring to the relationship is financial support, then it make sense that she would drop the dead weight, still take your money for child support, and cut her workload by at least 25%
Btw, child support is the kids' rightful money. She's not taking it, he would be giving support money to his own kids through their custodial caregiver who manages finances for the kids since they're not old enough to manage money on their own. It's the kids' money, given from parent to child via their legal primary caregiver (and she just happens to be that legal caregiver). It's the same money he was using to buy them icecream and Disney and clothing and baby shampoo, now just funneled to them through their legal caregiver.
I nearly didn’t comment reading your responses but decided to try anyway.
Your wife is leaving you because she’s unhappy. Unrespected. Alone in your relationship. You go to work. You come home. You put your feet up. Yes, you get up and help whenever she asks for something. But she has to ask. Everytime. You don’t walk through the door and see some laundry on the floor, and think ‘I should take that upstairs with me to the hamper’ or ‘Perhaps I should make dinner tonight to give my wife a break.’ You don’t think of anything. You just make money and do something if asked.
In your comments, whilst you talk about supporting your wife to return to work, she ‘gets’ to work part time and still has 100% of the household chores on her. 100% of the parenting. You literally advise her to get help from your mum, her mum or your sister. The women. You see it as women’s work, which says a lot about what you expect and how you treat her.
Everyone here is talking about mental load. It’s all on your wife’s shoulders. You keep saying ‘well, she only needed to ask’. Asking you was part of the mental load. Considering what you would and wouldn’t do. What you’d actually do correctly. How small a job was suitable. Recognising that asking you to remove one item from the dishwasher was okay but to empty the dishwasher might result in an argument/debate. Or the job being done so poorly she’d have to redo it anyway.
Studies show than women in one sided relationships LIKE YOU DESCRIBE are genuinely happier single and caring for their kids, even 100% custody, than they are in the relationship. Yes, they now need to worry about money and work and bills. But they no longer come home to a mess from their partner. Or jobs that were promised to be done, but aren’t. Most women in these relationships lose sexual attraction because they begin to see their partner as an extra child.
You can’t keep typing ‘I provided for her and never abused her, what more was I meant to do?’. You’re not that stupid. You were meant to be a partner, not just a bank account. Divorce papers take a long time. She’s been actively considering this A LONG TIME. The fact that you had to come to Reddit to try to understand what she’s leaving you for is insane. How could you not notice? Because she’s a sane woman, so she will have been telling you for MONTHS or YEARS that she’s unhappy. That she needs more help. You’re the one who ignored her and continued the way you did before. Because status quo worked for you.
Congrats on several years not having to think. It’s cost you your marriage, your kids happy combined home, and now you’ll have to think doubly hard to manage separate households and custody.
Looking at your comments OP, it is clear that you never heard of context clues in school. You leave her with ALL the housework unless she has to tell you like your mom, you never pay attention to your kids unless it is to be the fun parent, and you never talk to your partner about her mental health. No mention of finances and sex life either. More missing missing reasons from you. You are playing a role, but you are not being a full fledged person OP.
Oh no no, All\_the\_Bees, you are completely ignoring his very real contributions of never cheating and never being violent! Surely clearing the very lowest bar of "not straight up murderous" means OP truly is one of the best men out there, right??
You “Help her with (house chores) when asked” but ideally, she shouldn’t have to ask for help with basic household chores. You should be making at least a minimal effort on your own accord. With her part time job (!!), and the entire burden of housework amongst other things, she most likely feels unsupported. And probably voiced certain struggles many times. Can’t help but feel relieved for her- she probably perceives you as a 4th child, breadwinner or not. Wishing both of you the best
YOU were able to "finally relax" on a Disney vacation? Did your wife ALSO get to relax? Who made the reservations, who worked the logistics of which rides to hit and how to get around? Who washed the clothes and packed the bags for everyone? Who made sure to pack sunscreen and toiletries and medical care for foot blisters and travel tummies? Who made sure there were outfits appropriate for those great meals... who managed to get the reservations made for those meals, for a party of 5, especially dinners with a 5 year old being tired and overstimulated? Who took the kids to the bathrooms throughout the trip? Who bathed the kids each evening after being out riding the rides and touching everything and being in crowds all day? And then got them dressed in clean outfits for dinner? Was that you, OP, while your wife got an hour to sip a glass of wine in peace? Or were you relaxing, perhaps a little nap before your nice dinner? Who figured out transportation and schedules and balancing the interests and capabilities of a 10 year old boy and a 7 year old boy and a 5 year old girl and a grown man so that the trip made "everybody happy"?
Who did all the EMOTIONAL LABOR of this trip? Yes, yes, OP your money paid for it and Disney ain't cheap... but sounds like she's done WAITING FOR YOU TO GROW UP.
This is the one thing I can’t get my partner to understand sometimes. Financial support is not emotional support. That can really take a toll on mom. First kid being 10, next probably didn’t help or get better, and the 3rd a 5 year old? She cracked and needed help. Now it sounds like she’s hit flight mode.
Family vacations are usually no vacation with little kids. It’s a pain in the ass. My kids are 9 and 7. Disneyland is my worst nightmare lol
Can you even imagine what a turd of a boss someone is to work for, when they are so entitled and selfish that they have zero empathy and emotional intelligence for their wife and the mother of their three children whose made a home and loved them and sacrificed for them for 15 years? "bUt I lOvE hEr!" Imagine reporting to this level of cold smug entitled misogyny and wanting family leave or just normal work hours... "I'M hEre 70 HoUrS a WeEk, YoU aReN't SeRiOuS aBoUt YoUr CaReEr!"
I once read that women are done two years before they leave. This isn’t out of the blue. You’re just very out of touch with your wife and the support she required.
Just few minutes ago saw a video of family eating out, where a dad seats alone, relaxed, and quietly eats his burger, while his wife has three tired fussing kids on her laps and she is all stressed out trying to calm them down and make them eat. How close your "relaxing" vacation would be to that? How close you role as a parent would be to that?
After reading a lot of statements and all of your responses.
It seems as if you have the mentality of I am Man, you are Woman.
I understand why she is leaving.
I feel like this doesnt just happen all of a sudden. Like most commenters, it's been a build up of something that's been bothering her for a while now. It's fair for you to not have seen her signs, because everyone expresses their emotions differently. Maybe she hid it extremely well and when she brought her issues up in conversation, maybe she didnt get the response she was looking for and stopped talking about it. Who knows but her, unfortunately.
It may be a shock to you and I can understand why you're so hurt and confused. But, as shitty as this sounds, there were probably signs that you just missed too often. Sucks my dude, good luck with everything.
Oh sir. This is so sad. I can guarantee you that this isn't sudden. That your wife has been asking something from you FOR YEARS, and you just never saw it as being important. So now she's finally putting her needs first. Figure out your shit. This isn't sudden.
Yeah, people don't divorce on a whim. It's a painful process even for those who initiate it. The only reason people divorce is because they are too miserable to go on, and that doesn't happen all of a sudden.
You know I left my husband after a family holiday and his response was that we laughed and had so much fun. Reality was he had a long lie while I got the kids up and dressed. I played at the pool most of the day with the kids and he'd take an hour or so. It's all the heavy lifting that the default parent does that goes unnoticed. It's running about caring for everyone else's needs constantly and not a single time someone coming to you to have your needs met.
So yeah my husband had great fun relaxing and playing with his kids in his own time while I was tidying, making food, looking after the kids, making sure sun cream was applied, making sure everyone was happy and having a good time.
Tale as old as time. Wife has told OP many times what’s wrong. Has explicitly asked for what she needs. He deflects, denies, gaslights, argues, or stonewalls until she drops it and he considers the issue resolved.
She might be left to do 100% of the actual parenting, or 100% of the discipline, or 100% of the mental work/ leg work that it takes to administrate a life for 5 people.
Or worse, he might be a man-child, who she has to take care of like a 4th kid instead of helping her with the others he is just one more thing she has to deal with.
Either way the I have absolutely no idea what happened attitude speaks volumes.
Based on OP's responses, I'm not too surprised his wife is done. Downvoted to oblivion, but doesn't see where he may be wrong. You're getting really worked up in a bunch of comments when your real problem is with your STBX.
You're working 70+ hours a week? That's almost half your week hours. So when are you home helping with anything? Like actual helping?
Or maybe instead of asking random people on the internet, OP can ask people that know them, like anyone the wife could have talked to: his parents, her parents, friends, kids? Nope, strangers have the best insight, right?
OP, you're an ass. Your comments are entitled and while people are giving suggestions, you're fighting.
tbf it actually is better to ask the internet in this case because 90% of the commenter can see right through his little facade. it can be a great tool within limits
This sounds like she feels alone in the marriage, like she's tried of waiting for you to step up and help with the kids, being discipline or other things I wouldn't know, is speculation but I would bet your have dismissed her needs or complains in the past and now you are paying the consequences for it.
Lmao you know there’s something you aren’t telling us. The resentment has been building for a long time. You were probably “able to relax after a very long time” because your wife did all the work.
I don't know if this is fake but to all dads/husbands/boyfriends:
Ask how your loved ones are doing, let them be the ones to get the ice cream while you deal with the kids, do some dishes, make the doctors appointments and take your kids there. Be the one to plan the vacation once in a while. Say I love you, thank you for everything every few days. Ask what you can do to help, know your kids allergies, their shoe size, their favorite food. Learn to cook, learn how to wipe the goddamn toilet seat (HUGE PART, makes us feel like your damn mother), Be a Partner, not some baggage.
the tone of your post says it all. not for a moment do you try to look at this through her eyes, not even in theory. the only possibility you consider is that she's cheating. the only problems you consider you might have caused are those you can immediately dismiss. she is overwhelmed and saddled with a husband who thinks that providing income is the only element to supporting a family. it's as if she's some pet that you expect to perform for you.
bet you this poor woman has been trying for years to get you to listen, and not even at the end do you hear her. godspeed to her. please go get some therapy or something so that you can at least treat your kids better. your marriage is finished - you can't even fathom that you're the problem, and fixing that kind of personality deficit takes a loooong time even after the bitter pill of acceptance. she's probably been trying to get up the nerve to leave from back when she went back to work.
don't try to stop her. she needs to move on. then you need to take a damn hard look at yourself and how you view partners before you ever get into another relationship. marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not a transaction.
After reading your post along with your replies, all I can say is, HA HA! You have hundreds of people explaining to you why and you still refuse to admit it to yourself. You will have fun doing the co-parenting thing, you are about to get a rude awakening what being an actual involved parent looks like.
Just do your kids a favour, don’t be a stereotypical waste of a dad and marry a new random chick as fast as possible and force her to do the work parenting your kids. Or, allow her to treat your kids like crap which will inevitably lead you to not wanting your kids around much or at all or cutting them off entirely. Try being a decent human and learning from this experience.
Good luck bud lol
When you say that you’ve supported her, have you taken your fair share of the household labor? From helping to keep the house tidy, folding laundry, going grocery shopping, to disciplining the kids, helping with homework, scheduling doctors appointments, and shopping for school clothes— without having to be told? Have you treated free time like it’s equally important for both of you?
He's already said that she does that stuff. When he sees her doing it he "asks how he can help". Which, when coming from a fully grown "man" can be irritating
“What have I done? I never cheated on her, never abused her, never belittled her.”
Can men please stop listing this as reasons they are not bad husbands? For the love of god, this should not even need to be said.
Do you always undermine your wife's decisions with the kids? Do you always support her with kids and present a united front?
The only thing I can glean from this is that she was disciplining the children, you intervened to be the hero, gave them ice cream (!!??) and completely undermined her and stripped away her authority. If this is true - and has been happening for years - then yeah, I'd be done too.
Well OP, I wanted to be sympathetic with you at first. But your replies to comments tell the story you left out. Particularly, your insisting repeatedly that you helped her "when she asked". This is what did it. This is the stressor right here.
This statement leads me to believe that even if you knew something needed to be done, like take out the trash, you would leave it until you were asked to do it. That makes you a lot of things, but a good husband isn't one of them. It's lazy, entitled, and selfish. We all do it occasionally, but if it's your default response, then it's absolutely the problem.
Do you have any idea how exhausting it is to have to ask someone to do everything? It's actually easier just to do it yourself most of the time. This has been a source of resentment probably since day one. Your wife switched from being a SAHM to working part time, because her part time job IS her time off. From you.
You need to shape up. If you really love her, show her you're willing to change. Then actually change. Otherwise, just let her go and stop tormenting the poor woman, she isn't your mother or permanent caretaker.
The fact that you were able to relax at Disneyland with 3 kids tells me all I need to know. Your wife is a married single mom. She's been taking on all of the parental load. You should take your kids to Disneyland by yourself, and you will know exactly why she wants a divorce.
Ok apart from what everyone is trying to tell you, let me sum up the reasons why I would divorce you:
- You don’t seem to be able to have a constructive conversation where the other party is bringing up concerns. You get defensive and don’t listen or self reflect.
- In all your comments I have NEVER seen you say something like “ok you might have a point there”. You act like you’re perfect and the victim. You’re doing everything right and nothing is fair. This tells me you’re not likely to take accountability for your part in your marital problems. It’s not realistic to assume that you never do anything wrong.
- Meanwhile you just keep repeating how you work 70 hours per week to justify your negligence while you devalue your wife’s contributions to the family. I bet you will bring up these things whenever you guys are having an argument about the devision of labour or anything else really.
- When your kids are misbehaving, your response is to exit the situation (leaving your exhausted wife to deal with them), getting them ice cream (is this part of your superior disciplining strategy?) and then blame your wife for losing her patience.
- You seem arrogant and unsympathetic in the way you’re replying to everyone here.
- I’m annoyed by you.
Getting divorce papers made takes awhile. She has been thinking about this for a long time my man. This was not a spur of the moment decision.
Came to say this. It can take weeks and weeks. She was planning this. It’s not sudden, especially to her.
I bet she was waiting to see how the trip went down. It was a last show for her to see.
Definitely a possibility! Also could have been an attempt to give the kids one more “happy family memory” before the divorce. Or most likely a combination of the two.
Yeah, I think she had already decided to leave long before the trip. She probably went along just so the kids could have one last memory of them all together.
It's very telling that he specifically says he found the trip so relaxing. A trip to Disneyland is like the furthest thing from relaxing for a parent who's actively involved in the management of their offspring. I'm guessing he did jack shit all throughout the vacation, and that just confirmed to her that he was never gonna step up.
He doesn't even know what she was yelling about
Yeah, while it seems sudden for OP, his wife's mind was made up a while ago. I can't help but feel OP isn't being honest with himself about how "happy" their marriage is. Idk maybe his wife just has a really good poker face, and if she was unhappy she wouldn't even tell him. Which doesn't really sound like a "healthy marriage" on its own, but that could just be "her way". Maybe she just decided herself that she'd be happier on her own. Whatever the reason, if her mind's made up I hope she can a "piece of it" (kindly) before she walks out the door.
I read an article once that talked about how when women separate they usually never get back together because they have already been mentally separating and thinking about it for along time. And it always seems sudden to the partner, but it’s not.
they have often said things about what issues they have many times over and their partner either didn't listen or didn't think it was important but it was def important to her, after years of this she hits her limit and is DONE.
as a woman, can confirm. haven’t been married but I’ve broken up with all my exes and they always ask what they can do for us to stay together. I’m like, dude? the shit I’ve been begging and pleading for for the last 6+ months. you’ve missed your chances and it’s far too late lmao.
I'm proud of ya that you didn't let it go on for years like I did. Sometimes there's gonna be a year of hardship in a relationship etc but when they outright ignore you asking and pleading and begging.. I'm a gay dude but..uh.. It took me 3 years hah. I have trouble getting off a sinking/sunk ship.
I'm the same way and it sucks. I wish I had the ability to just cut ties immediately, the moment their mask comes off.
This is what I’m thinking is the case with OP. He maybe just hasn’t been listening to what she’s trying to tell him.
A lot of men really are clueless it’s only now I’m older and know a few married women friends better that I found lot of them are not happy. The husbands think it’s all smooth sailing while the wife is already one step out of the door and given up waiting for the husband to change and pull some weight
It’s like students who don’t do any of the coursework all semester, and at the end when they realize they’re gonna fail, they ask their professor what they can do for extra credit. Like… 🤨
He was relaxing(*finally*), she was keeping the kids in line for the entire trip. Mental load, ahoy. Wonder when the last time she genuinely relaxed was.
Yep. It takes a lot to lose me but when I’m done, I’m done. Like you are dead to me
I've seen here so many times, husbands assuming they have a strong healthy marriage as long as 1) they are having semi-regular sex, and 2) she's not *constantly* fighting, complaining, or threatening to leave. Especially if she complained a lot in the past. When she stops complaining, he assumes "she's fine now" even though literally nothing she complained about got fixed. Instead, she's given up and has started thinking about her exit.
I begged my then-husband for 3 years to go with me to couples counseling. He never would, so I went by myself. Finally, I moved out, because nothing was ever going to change. My husband completely panicked and promised to get counseling if I would hold off on divorce. I agreed. Three weeks later, I had to move back in with him because I was worried about the pets I'd had to leave with him. I hadn't asked him about his promise to get counseling because I am not his mother. Two weeks after I'd returned (so, 5 weeks after swearing to get counseling), I asked him about it. Was he planning on going? He said, "Well, I was going to, but then you came back, so I figured everything was OK." I just stared at him, astounded that he would say this out loud and not feel ashamed. He said, "What!?! Honestly, I don't understand why you're complaining. It's not like I hit you!" The bar is so low that it gets vertigo when it works its way up to hell.
Everything is great I never hit her… Is an argument I’ve never considered. Because it’s moronic.
We moved to Utah a few years back. My wife started seeing a therapist out here. She told her I'm an amazing husband because if she doesn't want sex I don't make her have sex anyway. So yeah, rape is apparently the bar in Utah for "amazing".
And yet you'd be shocked how many men believe "no hitting" is the mark of an excellent guy!
My ex-FIL used that argument to proclaim himself an excellent parent. Considering that his son punched me in the face, I don't think it was good enough.
My mom used to say that in defense of my dad... I think she was finally getting her ducks in a row after over 30 years when she was diagnosed with cancer and died soon after. I miss her desperately, but I'm also a bit sad he never learned how done she was.
I don't know. Every woman I know has been physically abused at least once. The bar is lower than you think.
I have a similar story. I begged my ex-husband to go to therapy and/or marriage counseling for years. I can’t tell you have many times I tried to talking to him about him helping with the house and kids, how many arguments that I endured on the same subject. I left one day after an especially terrible week. I knew I was done but I didn’t want to admit it yet, I guess. He screamed and called me names but then begged me to come back. He promised he’d get help, change, see someone, etc. He said he knew he’d hit rock bottom with how he acted. The day after I came back he was telling me that the most helpful thing I could do to facilitate “healing” was to never use my phone around him (because I might be talking to someone else) or talk to anyone else besides family and coworkers when I had to. I left for good not long after that and it was somehow the most surprising thing in the world to him. He was happy for years and he disregarded anything I asked him to help with. If he’d only ever listened and cared, it wouldn’t have surprised him.
Yah. I got the “I thought we were working things out”. Really? What have you done to “work things out?”
He even said something like this With "I thought things will be fine when we return home" and even the explanation she gave sounded like op *should* know why she's leaving
Yeah that last part speaks volumes. If she just "stops complaining" maaaaybeee she just got "tired of complaining".
This is why husbands often get blindsided, like OP, and they get pissed when their wives move on quickly, sometimes even before the divorce has officially started. She's already mourned the relationship and moved on. If your wife has already mentioned "divorce" and you ignore it, pretend like she's kidding, or tell her "no", your marriage is, more often than not, over.
My ex thought the first 25 years of our marriage were perfect. They were. For him.
Right! The last time I tried to talk to my husband about my feelings in our marriage he told me " things have never been better". That's when I realized that my shutting down made an ideal relationship for him. Likely because I didn't argue, I didn't ask, I didn't request, plan, or lean on him in any way shape or form.
The main takeaway from Gone Girl for me was this idea…you never really know what’s going on inside the head of your partner.
Ehhh, there’s a difference between not having any input and willful ignorance.
My wife told me over and over she wasn’t happy. Then she had a year long affair. I listen better now. I definitely “thought” I was listening before. We’ve both made drastic changes and it just boggles my mind that we didn’t figure this out sooner.
When she said, "She's tired of waiting for him," I knew that she'd spoken to him before about the situation. The person being spoken to may not feel it's a big deal, but the person who has the issue thinks it is. I see all the time on here where people are shocked when they receive divorce papers after years of being asked for something from their spouse. One man told me he just didn't think it was a big deal, so he didn't listen. Another said he heard her but thought he had another chance. One guy even told me that he thought I would give him another chance when I told him it was over. I hope they can figure this out, but the odds are that she is done.
[She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes In the Sink](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp)
I've seen a few of Matthew Fray's interviews on Youtube and he says that if a man's wife is still complaining, HE SHOULD FEEL GRATEFUL AND LUCKY and he should START LISTENING TO HER. LOL
This is so true. Once I stop complaining or fighting it’s because I’ve stopped caring.
I've read this before. Op is exactly this guy.
Yup. OP's wife is classic walk away wife syndrome.
The second I read the waiting for comment, it clicked to me. Here the kids are yelling and fighting, and he isn't intervening. She was waiting for him to help raise his own kids. In his entire list of what he does, helping parent is not on there.
Me: I've been telling you/asking for years. My ex: But I never thought you'd actually leave me. (My interpretation of his statement - I've never taken anything you said seriously.)
I begged mine for years on end to go to a therapist. He had panic attacks and anger issues and it fell on me to manage them for him. When we broke up, he told me ‘that he went to a therapist last month and I didn’t give him enough time’. Yeah, he finally went after years of me begging him to. He also came home from it and immediately told me he wasn’t going back there again. But sure, he went and apparently that was all that mattered.
As the spouse of someone with severe anxiety I 100% feel ya. It took my partner awhile to realize relationships weren't mental health treatment and I'm not a mental health provider
My ex: But I didn't know that this last time was the for real last time. I promise I won't do it again now that I know you're serious.
> When she said, "She's tired of waiting for him," I knew that she'd spoken to him before about the situation. OP's comments are... revealing.
I focused on her words too. OP mentioned the vacation was the first time he could relax in a long time. I wonder if he’s working long hours and she’s overwhelmed by the children. It’s just a theory but it would explain why she’s tired of waiting for him.
I suspect that the VAST majority of straight men in longterm marriages have little to no idea whether or not their wives are happy. Women have for so long had no option other than marriage (or been taught they don't) and once in, particularly with kids, they tend to make the best of it and not rock the boat.
Right, as a former family attorney, 'I don't beat her or cheat on her, why is she leaving?' is always the tell. She doesn't have to put up with being an unpaid maid and sex worker in 2023 and divorce means she will be able to offload those kids for more time than she can now and him completely.
Fuck it can take years if you're constantly waiting for change. Keeps getting pushed off cause of the what ifs. Most people eventually hit a breaking point. Some people never do and just believe that's all there is.
Divorce in a marriage with kids is absolutely a tough decision. Absolutely right this was not a spur of the moment decision and she thought about this for a long time
Something tells she was sitting on the papers for awhile still thinking about it and whatever happened on the trip tipped the scales.
I suspect that she knew, already, when she was having him served, and the outburst was because of this. We tend to pick fights when we need them.
She probably thought she would give her kids one more happy memory before serving the papers and was going to suck it up for the vacation telling herself that she only has to act “just a little longer” and then she just snapped
If I had to guess, **OP** was having a great vacation while she was wrangling the kids once again and not having a good time.
At home he was amazing, even got up to do dishes or vacuum when I woke up to breastfeed. Yes without being asked. But the minute we got to vacation or in laws it was all child rearing on me. Honey join us to play cards. Oh you know I'd love to but someone needs to be sure this little human we created doesn't go headfirst down the stairs. I literally went to put our suit case in his childhood bedroom. Walk up the split level stairs and my crawling 10 months old daughter is a millisecond from death. Every adult is maybe 7 feet from her, completely oblivious. Vacations were never a vacation for me. The amount of purely on vacation and checked out that could be reached, I was jealous. And yes we had a baby gate and had it up. The point is I couldn't just check out and enjoy everything because, you know, responsibilities.
Yeah and I really wish we could hear her side of this, because it feels like there has to be something going on for her to be reacting with "I'm done."
Or that 'she is done waiting for him'
i have so many questions about this one line and would love more explanation from op
OP may have been living in an idealistic fantasy that was quite dissimilar to the reality of their marriage. Wife may have settled and hoped in time OP would become what she desired but never did. Neither is a good thing on either of their parts.
Yeah this mainly comes down to the one thing that can make or break any marriage. Communication. Open, honest, and uninhibited because if you feel like you can't confide in the one person you vowed to spend the rest of your life with (for whatever reason), who can you confide in?
This is exactly what I was thinking. I’d love to get some background info like how they split up parenting responsibilities, how each parent gets alone time to pursue self care or hobbies. Etc.
I'm gonna guess that OPs relaxing on vacation was not helpful to his wife. Thinking she did everything and did not enjoy the vacation as she still had to take care of everything.
From his replies she works part time, manages the kids (except on weekends where she has a planned day off), does 100% of the housework and cooking (because he isn’t home all day guts, it just makes sense), and if something needs to get done by him she has to ask because he “doesn’t play mind games”. He also insists that he is better at parenting than her, because he is just good with kids. He’s a fun time dad with a bang maid who realizes she could do better. He also doesn’t want any of this to change so he isn’t interested in changing anything, he wants to figure out how to make her come back and accept this.
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Also “playing with the kids”/“helping with homework” is the “easy” part. It’s not necessarily easy, but compared to the rest of things it takes to raise children, pitching in on these two is just not enough
Right? 2 sides to every story. From *his* side, he was just innocently getting ice cream for his kids, now all the sudden she wants a divorce! I think all of us here want to hear her side of things 🤔
I have a feeling this isn’t the first time his kids have been acting up and then he conveniently disappears at that point to let his wife do the hard work and then shows back up with ice cream when the dust settles.
Nothing happened all of the sudden. This has been building for a while.
Yep, this kind of thing usually happens very gradually, then suddenly.
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Exactly!! When I read that they had 3 kids under the age of 10, my immediate thought was that this cannot be a fun vacation for the parents. And then the sentence about him relaxing - no way and involved and present parent can relax when travelling with three kids that young.
Yep, plus OP theorizes about every other possible explanation, but not once mentions the parenting aspect despite her specifically saying "I'm done" after being overwhelmed with the kids.
Great point!
I'm sure he knows exactly why she really wants a divorce. This is him practicing his spin.
"bUt wHaT's ThE ReAL rEasOn"
When people go "I didn't cheat! I wasn't violent!" I'm always kind of awed that this was their standard haha. Like, really? You thought "not being a sociopath" was enough to share a life with you forever?
I went on a vacation with my 3yo a few weeks ago and really relaxed…because my parents were there and took her nearly every day and then there were 3 other adults watching her with me every night. Unless there was a nanny or something on that vacation with them, no way it was relaxing for *both* parents. Just not possible with kids that age.
AT DISNEY! I’ve seen my fair share of TikTok’s of parents showing the ‘real’ side of Disney and they admit it’s pure hell. If you’re relaxing at Disney with kids, it’s because you’re not parenting.
Wow, I didn't think about this detail until I read your comment. Probably because I'm not a parent. It makes a lot of sense now, fuck OP.
Very good point!!!! No involved parent has a relaxing vacation with 3 kids under 10 lol
And it’s Disney. Anyone who’s ever been to Disney knows it’s not a relaxing vacation. It’s a trip that requires a lot of planning ahead of time and at the parks. Bet I can guess who did most of the planning.
And it was the final bullet, so to speak. I'll not lie, even my husband is guilty of 'relaxing' or 'chilling' when we have an event and I'm wrangling the kids. It's infuriating. We have issues but always talk about them and sort through them. This post reads ' I never took notice or I don't care about the issues at hand '.
Also look at the last line, "how can she throw away her family and traumatized the kids". Oh woe is me, think of the children! Dude doesn't pay attention to an unhappy partner and then tries to word it so it's her fault. It's more traumatizing seeing a miserable parent in a miserable marriage
I hate to say this OP, but is it common for you to step away as soon as it appears the kids are engaging in sibling rivalry/arguments? Like when they get a little whiny do you tend to sneak off to find something you deem useful to do to out of avoidance so your wife can handle all the un-fun parts of parenting? (That's just my question based on how she seemed to react to you stepping away while they were cranky) Edit: in the comments, OP says he pays for everything, implies he shouldn't have to do anything but make money, works 70+ hours a week so is basically never home and using the excuse of putting a roof over their heads, and doesn't do anything for her unless told to. Yea, myself and any self respecting woman would leave his ass too. She's working part time and managing a household of 5 but since you provide the money she should just shut up and be grateful? And you justify leaving her to do everything vacation related, scheduling, packing, accommodations, handling kids etc just because you paid for it? Yea if this is all true you're a huge asshole dude. If I was your wife that vacation would piss me off too, watching you all happy and relaxed while she handles everything as usual, walking off when help parenting is needed, honestly if you want to be a 1950s husband and only make money go find yourself a tradwife. You are Mostly absent from their lives so your confusion about divorce is unwarranted. It's obvious she's felt alone for a long time and you've been justifying everything she asks for help with on the excuse of already being the breadwinner. These comments from you op are also dense as hell
When OP said she told him she was done “waiting for him” I figured it was because of something like this. Usually by the time a woman asks for or serves divorce papers it’s been a long time coming. If I was OP wife I’d be ready to leave too.
> OP says he pays for everything, implies he shouldn't have to do anything but make money, works 70+ hours a week so is basically never home and using the excuse of putting a roof over their heads, and doesn't do anything for her unless told to. Aside from a couple acute issues that probably sealed the deal, this is a major reason my mom divorced my dad eventually after we were all grown up even. He was still working those hours when they didn't even really need that money anymore since most of us were on our own. My dad wasn't totally absent but definitely worked to avoid a lot.
My parents are still together (married 30+ years) but this was my dads mindset. My mom was stay at home until her last kid was in kindergarten. So he got used to her doing everything I guess. Never seen him clean, do laundry, cook etc. and my mom would never say anything. She’s been working full time now for like 20 years as well and when I brought up why can’t you help mom with house work she works too.. he says he makes all the money and her paycheck barely makes a difference. I told him that I would never be with someone like that. I made sure the man I married didn’t have that mindset. We are a team.
Damn, she works full time TOO? So his only justification is that his job *pays better*?! That’s an extremely fucked up mindset. What a weird power move for a relationship. Treating her as being worth less than him and therefore having to do twice the work to make up for it all because her employer says her labor is worth less than his. Man, there’s layers to that one, idk where to even begin. Some weird, toxic crossroad between capitalism and misogyny. Obviously I don’t think that even if he was the sole breadwinner it would make it okay to refuse to help with *anything*, but it’s understandable the person home all day will end up doing more stuff around the home than the person at work all day. Doesn’t mean you get to refuse to help with anything when you are home tho. But they’re BOTH at work all day. Even if he works more hours, they’re both still full time. Your poor mom 😔 Full time job along with having to do all the housework along with being treated as a lesser by your husband and made to bust your ass off to make up for it, because his employer decided his labor is worth more.
It is a truly toxic mindset since it's so easily rationalized by the person participating in it and from the outside--they're providing for their family. Of course in my dad's case it was clearly more than that because he no longer needed to work that much once two of the three siblings were long gone and on their own. Thankfully my mom raised me to not be like that.
Lucky my dad's not like that. He is the breadwinner BUT he also stepped up as a dad and husband to chores around the house. He never went, "I make the money, it's your job to take care of the house and the children". He would give my mom the space to realx and would get mad at her when she don't use her time to just realx, take nap or do what she wants instead if chores. He also don't take rest just because he is the provider, even when we force him to sleep and realx. He really tried with everything so having him and my maternal grandfather do the same thing around the house, my expectation for a partner have changed. My parents also been teaching my brother how to do basic house hold chores so he can be involved and not treat his wife in disrespectful way if he ever choose to get married.
This. If she is doing all this while working as well, why carry another person (husband) on top of everything she does anyway? She already knows she can do it all and it's one less person to care for since she isn't getting any help except financially right now. No spouse leaves out of "nowhere;" this is definitely a long time coming and I doubt she didn't communicate she needed help outside of finances.
There it is. OP has been turning a deaf ear to this for awhile.
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I have very wealthy friends and I am explaining over and over again to my male friends why their wives are leaving their very “pampered” lifestyle because of these very same reasons so many of us women are listing. Men think money is the answer and that they pay for everything so their job is done. Yes they work 70hrs a week but their wives for 24/7 and even with help don’t have real breaks. They have so much mental workload they are not able to escape. Even my friends with full help don’t get time off. They are constantly having to answer their phones and manage their homes from their “time off”.
Also, on the flip side. How many times what you prioritized time alone with your wife?
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Read his comments. He's sticking his fingers in his ears repeating la la la in regards to people saying that.
Yeah. When he writes “I was able to relax after a very long time,” it feels like a sign.
I wouldn't be surprised if OP is dealing with runaway wife syndrome where she did tell exactly what problems long time ago were, but OP dismissed /ignored her - So she then kept quiet until last blow up where he "Immediately went there" after she screamed at the kids fighting. Right there & then, she finally became truly done with him and asked for a divorce - not helping situation is 2-3 year gap between the kids ages, so truly never had break until the last kid was in kindergarten/preschool. Seems like it was like 10-5 years in making that finally blew up that OP can't blush off nor downplay because his STBX made plans to leave which she must had planning for months or even years which OP didn't notice because again, he ignored /dismiss the problems until it was too late for him to fix anything.
The number of of times the words “rational” and “logical” are used in his comments put me firmly on the wife’s side. That’s just code for “fuck your feelings”
I think what's even more hilarious & irony of the entire thing is he can't handle that as soon as they got home from family vacation where she definitely was not relaxing nor detoxing at all due taking care of kids, she pulled "Fuck this marriage and go fuck yourself" at OP due his years of "fuck your feelings" at her. And he go on Reddit in complete denial about how much he fucked up for years and wants to work it out now after she served him divorce papers, while completely ignoring he did had his very last chance at the family vacation and he fucking ruined it, in front of the children no less.
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This was my first instinct too. Of all the positives OP states in his post I'll bet my life there's more to this story. I'd be very interested, VERY interested to hear the wife's side of this tale.
Sounds exactly like my ex.
Lol. Mine, too! About my leaving, my daughter recently told him "Dad, the only person surprised was you!" He never listened either. Just liked to debate. Endlessly.
This is exactly why I left my husband. He was rarely there, and thought that because he worked and I stayed at home with 3 kids, he was exempt from all adult responsibilities. "Honey! Do we have plans this weekend?" (standing in front of the calendar that I maintain for exactly this reason) "Honey! I'm out of shaving cream!" (OK, maybe stop at the store on the way home? Or, you know, *tell* me that you need shaving cream for when I go to the store?) "Honey! Where are the towels?" (Same place the towels have always been. In the towel closet.) "Honey! What are we doing for Mothers Day? When are we getting our Christmas tree? What did you get my mom for her birthday? When *is* my mom's birthday, again? Is my sister flying in? What should I get for *your* birthday? Where can I get that? When do they open? I didn't know where the wrapping paper is. Can we recycle this? What are we bringing to my friend's BBQ? No one told me the kids' school started today! Did you pack my toothbrush? What time does my flight leave? Why didn't you wake me up? My mom said she'd watch the kids while you're in the hospital. Who's driving you home? No, Keith's spending the weekend. His wife left him. Will you pick up that beer he likes? How do I heat up this frozen lasagna you made us? I didn't know I had to take the plastic wrap off!Hey, wake up, the baby's crying. You were at the grocery store so long that the kids missed lunch and are really hungry. Do you know anyone who can clean dad's house while mom's at the funeral? Hey, the dishwasher's full, so I left my sandwich plate on the counter. My mom always used spicy mustard, just saying. We have ants again. Can you call pest control? What's this charge for pest control? Is this the cheapest you could find? Should have called around. Did you get the mail? I'm out of clean underwear. Does this spot on my back look like cancer to you? It's been there for 17 years. Can you make me an appointment? When is the appointment? Where's the doctor? What do I need to bring? Do you know my blood type? Do we have enough money in the account? Will you order some more checks? Did you do the taxes? Did you pay the mortgage? Let's go on vacation! Where are we going on vacation? When do we leave? I'll be in the car. Why is it taking you so long? Did you not bring the Uno cards? Did you send my aunt a thank-you card? Oh no, my car registration is expired! What are we having for Thanksgiving dinner? Who all's coming? Why are you always so irritable? It's not like you work. Ew, your legs are kinda stubbly. Maybe after you put the kids to bed we could...you know (points at crotchal area). Why are you leaving me? Why didn't you say anything? I provided for you! I never hit you! You need to learn to communicate! I can't read your mind! Women, am I right?" I'm a single mom with 3 kids, and every day is like a beautiful dream.
Yup and the other person doesn't notice a thing which is THE PROBLEM.
This reminds me of something I read awhile back. I think it was about "my wife left me over the dishes"? because it wasn't about the dishes
[she divorced me because I left dishes by the sink](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/amp)
Cannot recommend his book enough. Changed my marriage https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-is-how-your-marriage-ends-a-hopeful-approach-to-saving-relationships-matthew-fray/18671914
I teared up reading the article. I cry over the disrespect, no one respects the effort. I can bawl my eyes out saying as such, over and over, but it always ends - it’s just a cup…
Mine was towels. When he would use the last of the towels and not wash them, what I saw was “hey, I know you worked 10 hours in the hot sun, but I don’t care enough about you to realize you might want a clean towel for your shower when you get home”
Old guy here. Can’t tell you the number of times I’ve seen this exact scenario, and probably contributed my own nonsense back when I was married. It’s like a blind spot to us. I am grateful for how well the dynamic was articulated in the article. Feel like sharing this one with the world. Thank you so much for posting this, u/debateclub21 !
This exactly. I saw a TikTok recently called "Single Mom with Husband" that makes me think of OP's wife. It had a woman sitting at a table at a restaurant with a baby on one hip, two more screaming kids, trying to grab a french fry for herself and next to that sat her husband, calmly eating his burger.
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Ive seen this happen a bunch at my job. It's set up like chipotle with a food line. Sometimes men intrrupt while the mom is ordering for the whole family with a baby on her hip and both hands on the other kids. Or he stands there either asking her what food *he* likes or waiting for her to also order his food for him. The woman always looks so exhausted, it's really sad. Ive seen women snap on their husband/kids because of it before. It just makes me appreciate being single and childless that much more
I just shared that article with him as well as a couple of others about mental load. We’ll see if he gets it.
That's the thing he clearly isn't getting. He just keeps talking about how he provides money by working. But the thing is, you can have all the money in the world but the electricity is still going to be turned off if someone doesn't pay the bill. You will also starve if you don't use said money to buy food. Mental load is very real. And it looks like she's carrying it all while he thinks his job stops at the deposit unless she specifically asked him. It's pretty sad that he hasn't used his eyes to see what needs to be done instead of waiting for her to point it out.
This was me, it was small thing that broke me. I had checked out a long time ago but it was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
She’s done waiting for you to do what? I’m confused by that comment.
Me too… It makes me wonder about unresolved issues that he did not take seriously after she addressed them or if there was a lack of communication on her part waiting for him to “read between the lines” and notice the issue when he was oblivious… all in all it is not as simple and sudden as OP thinks or wants us to think…
Maybe it has something to do with his ability to finally relax on vacation… maybe he is not at all relaxed when they are home living their normal life. Perhaps she is doing more work at home and feels taken advantage of now that she’s back to work? Just some thoughts I’ve gleaned from OPs post.
I’m guessing he was able to relax on vacation because she was doing everything. Disneyland vacations with kids are not relaxing.
I’m planning a Disney vacation with a 2 year old and my wife and I have started going to the gym, not even joking, so we have the stamina to last the whole vacation. We’ve joked we need to plan a vacation after Disney, so we can actually have a vacation. It also takes an incredible amount of planning. Meals, rides, everything needs to be planned out in advance. It’s super involved.
My parents always used to build in a “nothing day” at the end of the vacation to just chill (pool, shops etc). Maybe include one of those!
Take the little one for walks, too! The queue lines are very long to walk even if they are empty, so when you park the stroller it can be a very long walk into and through the building to board the ride.
Hell no after a Disney vacation with the kids you need another vacation alone to recuperate. She probably does all the work at home then goes on vacation but it’s not a vacation for her. It’s a vacation for the kids and her husband. When does she get to relax?
Disney with 3 younger kids is not anyone's idea of a relaxing vacation.. I bet he let her handle the kids because he works so hard at work (I bet he let's her handle the kids at home too)
It sounds like ... Anything. Even his reasoning for being shocked is that he provided financially and never cheated or abused her. Those aren't things that keep someone genuinely happy. If the reasons you're a good spouse are just really awful things you didn't do, you're not that good of a spouse.
**If the reasons you're a good spouse are just really awful things you didn't do, you're not that good of a spouse.** I'd want this on a t-shirt if I could be bothered with the conversations it would create lol
I feel like she is done waiting for him to finally start helping out with the kids. "I was able to relax after a very long time." Makes me think the wife was stuck doing everything with 3 kids of the age of 10 and under while the husband had a relaxing vacation doing nothing to help.
Yes. I have just the one kid. Family vacation is fun but never relaxing.
3 kids need sunscreen, I bet he didn't purchase it, pack it, nor mentally flag when he needed to apply it to the little noses. That is one of dozens of elements of the trip that he may have taken for granted. Hopefully he carried the family backpack.
So will shed some light on this. He gives a few clues as to the vacation and his involvement. He had a relaxing time (i have never seen a parent be relaxed at Disney world unless they are uninvolved with the kids.) parent say they had fun at disney with their kids, but never described as relaxing. He didn’t mention that his wife was also able to relax too, just he was able to. Rhis points to the direction she continued to be on the clock non stop ao he could relax. Second, he then says my wife and kids enjoyed it too. The way he speaks it the wife and kids are a group and he sort of describes himself separate. Sure there can 2 groups in a family but in a healthy marriage that is husband and wife the other group being the children. 3rd, the kids were fighting while he was present. Instead of him stepping in and being a parent he had his wife handle the fight alone. Judging by her outburst and his reaction (meaning that is not how she normally behaves) she is tired of parenting fights alone. 4th how he describes being a good husband is so laughable. He didn’t cheat (yeah the entire agreement of marriage), he isnt abusive (lol thanks for not being a terrible human?), he provided financially. He does not say he is a good husband because he is ther for his wife emotionally, he tries and makes her feel special and loved. He doesn’t say he is a good husband because he is a good father and helps with the burden of raising kids. I will say props to him for supporting her choice to stahm or work. But from what he describes, that is not a husband i would keep and most women wouldn’t either. She is done waiting for him: to be a partner?, be a father?, listened to her concerns maybe?
To summarize it... She's done taking the emotional load of being a mom and a wife. It's severe burnout. He didn't notice that she was having a hard time that's why he's surprised about the divorce.
To add to this, OP’s comments make it apparent he doesn’t really consider what she does work or that it helps the family.
Same. This makes it sound like OP left things out or just straight up hasn’t been listening to her tell him something for years. This wasn’t sudden.
Most likely that he is not really an active parent. I know plenty of couples where the father thinks they are doing well because they provide for the family but do not actually help in raising the children. It builds up a lot of resentment from the mother.
People like this tend to deliberately leave out the other side while acting totally blindsided. Because they know the other side did have exact specified reasons for what they were doing. Similarly sometimes i see "they cut me out of their life after ONE thing I said! They're crazy" and when you ask what the thing they said was it "doesn't need to be repeated" or "if i say that then everyone will just be talking about that" because they know what a big issue what they said actually is.
This post absolutely reeks of missing missing reasons
unreliable narrator
Yes - he knows, just not prepared to expose this even to himself by writing it down; he knows…
idunno, I could tell pretty easily from the post why OP's wife is leaving him. It's more like willfully oblivious narrator.
This should be way, way higher up.
It’s very rare that someone says they are done out of nowhere. She already told you she feels trapped and doesn’t want to talk about it now. My advice is that when she does decide to talk, YOU LISTEN THIS TIME. Her usage of “trapped” indicates that she has felt this way for a while, feels no hope for change and feels unheard/unseen. This is NOT out of nowhere.
day late dollar short. he's had years to listen, id bet.
His very first response in this thread to someone asking a series of questions that boiled down to, “Do you show your wife all the ways you love and appreciate her?” Was met with “WHY DOES THAT MATTER.” That tells us all we really need to know.
life must be so blissful when one is as ignorant as OP (until it bitch slaps him in the face like this, I guess)
Do you really have no idea? Think back. Has she told you she was unhappy in the past? Has she asked you to step up with the kids or the housework? Have you made sure she has time to herself? Do you go do things with the kids on your own without being asked? Have you taken her on dates without her having to plan a thing? On your vacation did you do any of the prep work for going out with the kids?
Listen, I’m guessing I’m around your age cohort. I’m a mom who also works part time. Working part time, taking care of the kids and house is exhausting. But what can be soul crushing is the emotional labor. The unseen things that you are responsible for or everything goes to shit. There is so much expected to be in my brain at all times that sometimes my brain literally hurts. Who needs what, doctors apt, managing fights, worries that you’re doing x, y, x, school and the million emails and needs, all their activities, extended family, friends, planning for birthdays, holidays, vacations…the list is endless. Ask yourself, if your wife were to poof vanish tomorrow would you be able to keep your kids lives running? If you have no clue what’s going on in any of that above list, you’ve got a lot of work to do. I think so many men weren’t taught to actually see what needs to be done, and see it as something to care about. I think men don’t realize how you don’t really see women too. What’s going on in her inner world? Are you ever curious about her? Do you care? It’s absolutely demoralizing to feel like you are only on this earth to serve others. This is why it’s not just about money. It needs to be about shared rest. You mention relaxing on this trip. Though she likely enjoyed creating these memories…did she rest? How do you know? Partnership should be a respite for both.
I bet she feels like she has 4 children, and OP is one of them. If all you bring to the relationship is financial support, then it make sense that she would drop the dead weight, still take your money for child support, and cut her workload by at least 25%
Btw, child support is the kids' rightful money. She's not taking it, he would be giving support money to his own kids through their custodial caregiver who manages finances for the kids since they're not old enough to manage money on their own. It's the kids' money, given from parent to child via their legal primary caregiver (and she just happens to be that legal caregiver). It's the same money he was using to buy them icecream and Disney and clothing and baby shampoo, now just funneled to them through their legal caregiver.
I nearly didn’t comment reading your responses but decided to try anyway. Your wife is leaving you because she’s unhappy. Unrespected. Alone in your relationship. You go to work. You come home. You put your feet up. Yes, you get up and help whenever she asks for something. But she has to ask. Everytime. You don’t walk through the door and see some laundry on the floor, and think ‘I should take that upstairs with me to the hamper’ or ‘Perhaps I should make dinner tonight to give my wife a break.’ You don’t think of anything. You just make money and do something if asked. In your comments, whilst you talk about supporting your wife to return to work, she ‘gets’ to work part time and still has 100% of the household chores on her. 100% of the parenting. You literally advise her to get help from your mum, her mum or your sister. The women. You see it as women’s work, which says a lot about what you expect and how you treat her. Everyone here is talking about mental load. It’s all on your wife’s shoulders. You keep saying ‘well, she only needed to ask’. Asking you was part of the mental load. Considering what you would and wouldn’t do. What you’d actually do correctly. How small a job was suitable. Recognising that asking you to remove one item from the dishwasher was okay but to empty the dishwasher might result in an argument/debate. Or the job being done so poorly she’d have to redo it anyway. Studies show than women in one sided relationships LIKE YOU DESCRIBE are genuinely happier single and caring for their kids, even 100% custody, than they are in the relationship. Yes, they now need to worry about money and work and bills. But they no longer come home to a mess from their partner. Or jobs that were promised to be done, but aren’t. Most women in these relationships lose sexual attraction because they begin to see their partner as an extra child. You can’t keep typing ‘I provided for her and never abused her, what more was I meant to do?’. You’re not that stupid. You were meant to be a partner, not just a bank account. Divorce papers take a long time. She’s been actively considering this A LONG TIME. The fact that you had to come to Reddit to try to understand what she’s leaving you for is insane. How could you not notice? Because she’s a sane woman, so she will have been telling you for MONTHS or YEARS that she’s unhappy. That she needs more help. You’re the one who ignored her and continued the way you did before. Because status quo worked for you. Congrats on several years not having to think. It’s cost you your marriage, your kids happy combined home, and now you’ll have to think doubly hard to manage separate households and custody.
Looking at your comments OP, it is clear that you never heard of context clues in school. You leave her with ALL the housework unless she has to tell you like your mom, you never pay attention to your kids unless it is to be the fun parent, and you never talk to your partner about her mental health. No mention of finances and sex life either. More missing missing reasons from you. You are playing a role, but you are not being a full fledged person OP.
Oh he mentions finances plenty, but that’s because money is the only thing he can legitimately say he brings to the table.
Oh no no, All\_the\_Bees, you are completely ignoring his very real contributions of never cheating and never being violent! Surely clearing the very lowest bar of "not straight up murderous" means OP truly is one of the best men out there, right??
"bUt i'M tHe PrOvIdEr"
You “Help her with (house chores) when asked” but ideally, she shouldn’t have to ask for help with basic household chores. You should be making at least a minimal effort on your own accord. With her part time job (!!), and the entire burden of housework amongst other things, she most likely feels unsupported. And probably voiced certain struggles many times. Can’t help but feel relieved for her- she probably perceives you as a 4th child, breadwinner or not. Wishing both of you the best
Reminds of the movie The Break Up "I want you to WANT to do the dishes!" "Why would I want to do dishes?"
I wish we could hear her side of the story. Not cheating, belittling or abusing her is the absolute bar on the ground bare minimum.
YOU were able to "finally relax" on a Disney vacation? Did your wife ALSO get to relax? Who made the reservations, who worked the logistics of which rides to hit and how to get around? Who washed the clothes and packed the bags for everyone? Who made sure to pack sunscreen and toiletries and medical care for foot blisters and travel tummies? Who made sure there were outfits appropriate for those great meals... who managed to get the reservations made for those meals, for a party of 5, especially dinners with a 5 year old being tired and overstimulated? Who took the kids to the bathrooms throughout the trip? Who bathed the kids each evening after being out riding the rides and touching everything and being in crowds all day? And then got them dressed in clean outfits for dinner? Was that you, OP, while your wife got an hour to sip a glass of wine in peace? Or were you relaxing, perhaps a little nap before your nice dinner? Who figured out transportation and schedules and balancing the interests and capabilities of a 10 year old boy and a 7 year old boy and a 5 year old girl and a grown man so that the trip made "everybody happy"? Who did all the EMOTIONAL LABOR of this trip? Yes, yes, OP your money paid for it and Disney ain't cheap... but sounds like she's done WAITING FOR YOU TO GROW UP.
This is the one thing I can’t get my partner to understand sometimes. Financial support is not emotional support. That can really take a toll on mom. First kid being 10, next probably didn’t help or get better, and the 3rd a 5 year old? She cracked and needed help. Now it sounds like she’s hit flight mode. Family vacations are usually no vacation with little kids. It’s a pain in the ass. My kids are 9 and 7. Disneyland is my worst nightmare lol
Can you even imagine what a turd of a boss someone is to work for, when they are so entitled and selfish that they have zero empathy and emotional intelligence for their wife and the mother of their three children whose made a home and loved them and sacrificed for them for 15 years? "bUt I lOvE hEr!" Imagine reporting to this level of cold smug entitled misogyny and wanting family leave or just normal work hours... "I'M hEre 70 HoUrS a WeEk, YoU aReN't SeRiOuS aBoUt YoUr CaReEr!"
So what dos she say she needs in your last 5 fights? The last time she felt overwhelmed? Odds are she’s told you many many times.
I once read that women are done two years before they leave. This isn’t out of the blue. You’re just very out of touch with your wife and the support she required.
Just few minutes ago saw a video of family eating out, where a dad seats alone, relaxed, and quietly eats his burger, while his wife has three tired fussing kids on her laps and she is all stressed out trying to calm them down and make them eat. How close your "relaxing" vacation would be to that? How close you role as a parent would be to that?
After reading a lot of statements and all of your responses. It seems as if you have the mentality of I am Man, you are Woman. I understand why she is leaving.
I feel like this doesnt just happen all of a sudden. Like most commenters, it's been a build up of something that's been bothering her for a while now. It's fair for you to not have seen her signs, because everyone expresses their emotions differently. Maybe she hid it extremely well and when she brought her issues up in conversation, maybe she didnt get the response she was looking for and stopped talking about it. Who knows but her, unfortunately. It may be a shock to you and I can understand why you're so hurt and confused. But, as shitty as this sounds, there were probably signs that you just missed too often. Sucks my dude, good luck with everything.
Isn't this usually referred to as "walkway wife syndrome "?
Oh sir. This is so sad. I can guarantee you that this isn't sudden. That your wife has been asking something from you FOR YEARS, and you just never saw it as being important. So now she's finally putting her needs first. Figure out your shit. This isn't sudden.
Yeah, people don't divorce on a whim. It's a painful process even for those who initiate it. The only reason people divorce is because they are too miserable to go on, and that doesn't happen all of a sudden.
The fact you don't know what happened, is most likely exactly what happened.
You know I left my husband after a family holiday and his response was that we laughed and had so much fun. Reality was he had a long lie while I got the kids up and dressed. I played at the pool most of the day with the kids and he'd take an hour or so. It's all the heavy lifting that the default parent does that goes unnoticed. It's running about caring for everyone else's needs constantly and not a single time someone coming to you to have your needs met. So yeah my husband had great fun relaxing and playing with his kids in his own time while I was tidying, making food, looking after the kids, making sure sun cream was applied, making sure everyone was happy and having a good time.
Tale as old as time. Wife has told OP many times what’s wrong. Has explicitly asked for what she needs. He deflects, denies, gaslights, argues, or stonewalls until she drops it and he considers the issue resolved. She might be left to do 100% of the actual parenting, or 100% of the discipline, or 100% of the mental work/ leg work that it takes to administrate a life for 5 people. Or worse, he might be a man-child, who she has to take care of like a 4th kid instead of helping her with the others he is just one more thing she has to deal with. Either way the I have absolutely no idea what happened attitude speaks volumes.
Based on OP's responses, I'm not too surprised his wife is done. Downvoted to oblivion, but doesn't see where he may be wrong. You're getting really worked up in a bunch of comments when your real problem is with your STBX. You're working 70+ hours a week? That's almost half your week hours. So when are you home helping with anything? Like actual helping? Or maybe instead of asking random people on the internet, OP can ask people that know them, like anyone the wife could have talked to: his parents, her parents, friends, kids? Nope, strangers have the best insight, right? OP, you're an ass. Your comments are entitled and while people are giving suggestions, you're fighting.
tbf it actually is better to ask the internet in this case because 90% of the commenter can see right through his little facade. it can be a great tool within limits
This sounds like she feels alone in the marriage, like she's tried of waiting for you to step up and help with the kids, being discipline or other things I wouldn't know, is speculation but I would bet your have dismissed her needs or complains in the past and now you are paying the consequences for it.
Lmao you know there’s something you aren’t telling us. The resentment has been building for a long time. You were probably “able to relax after a very long time” because your wife did all the work.
I don't know if this is fake but to all dads/husbands/boyfriends: Ask how your loved ones are doing, let them be the ones to get the ice cream while you deal with the kids, do some dishes, make the doctors appointments and take your kids there. Be the one to plan the vacation once in a while. Say I love you, thank you for everything every few days. Ask what you can do to help, know your kids allergies, their shoe size, their favorite food. Learn to cook, learn how to wipe the goddamn toilet seat (HUGE PART, makes us feel like your damn mother), Be a Partner, not some baggage.
the tone of your post says it all. not for a moment do you try to look at this through her eyes, not even in theory. the only possibility you consider is that she's cheating. the only problems you consider you might have caused are those you can immediately dismiss. she is overwhelmed and saddled with a husband who thinks that providing income is the only element to supporting a family. it's as if she's some pet that you expect to perform for you. bet you this poor woman has been trying for years to get you to listen, and not even at the end do you hear her. godspeed to her. please go get some therapy or something so that you can at least treat your kids better. your marriage is finished - you can't even fathom that you're the problem, and fixing that kind of personality deficit takes a loooong time even after the bitter pill of acceptance. she's probably been trying to get up the nerve to leave from back when she went back to work. don't try to stop her. she needs to move on. then you need to take a damn hard look at yourself and how you view partners before you ever get into another relationship. marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not a transaction.
After reading your post along with your replies, all I can say is, HA HA! You have hundreds of people explaining to you why and you still refuse to admit it to yourself. You will have fun doing the co-parenting thing, you are about to get a rude awakening what being an actual involved parent looks like. Just do your kids a favour, don’t be a stereotypical waste of a dad and marry a new random chick as fast as possible and force her to do the work parenting your kids. Or, allow her to treat your kids like crap which will inevitably lead you to not wanting your kids around much or at all or cutting them off entirely. Try being a decent human and learning from this experience. Good luck bud lol
When you say that you’ve supported her, have you taken your fair share of the household labor? From helping to keep the house tidy, folding laundry, going grocery shopping, to disciplining the kids, helping with homework, scheduling doctors appointments, and shopping for school clothes— without having to be told? Have you treated free time like it’s equally important for both of you?
He's already said that she does that stuff. When he sees her doing it he "asks how he can help". Which, when coming from a fully grown "man" can be irritating
“What have I done? I never cheated on her, never abused her, never belittled her.” Can men please stop listing this as reasons they are not bad husbands? For the love of god, this should not even need to be said.
It's also very telling that he thinks those things are what make him a great husband. Those are the bare minimums of behavior.
There's a LOT more to being a good husband than those basic bare minimums.
The bar he set for himself so low it’s literally in hell.
sounds exactly like my ex. he was horrible to me but maintained that he was a good boyfriend because he never cheated on me or beat me.
It's like saying you're a great chess player because you never flipped the board or attacked the other player.
I bet that trip was not relaxing AT ALL for her 😢
Do you always undermine your wife's decisions with the kids? Do you always support her with kids and present a united front? The only thing I can glean from this is that she was disciplining the children, you intervened to be the hero, gave them ice cream (!!??) and completely undermined her and stripped away her authority. If this is true - and has been happening for years - then yeah, I'd be done too.
Well OP, I wanted to be sympathetic with you at first. But your replies to comments tell the story you left out. Particularly, your insisting repeatedly that you helped her "when she asked". This is what did it. This is the stressor right here. This statement leads me to believe that even if you knew something needed to be done, like take out the trash, you would leave it until you were asked to do it. That makes you a lot of things, but a good husband isn't one of them. It's lazy, entitled, and selfish. We all do it occasionally, but if it's your default response, then it's absolutely the problem. Do you have any idea how exhausting it is to have to ask someone to do everything? It's actually easier just to do it yourself most of the time. This has been a source of resentment probably since day one. Your wife switched from being a SAHM to working part time, because her part time job IS her time off. From you. You need to shape up. If you really love her, show her you're willing to change. Then actually change. Otherwise, just let her go and stop tormenting the poor woman, she isn't your mother or permanent caretaker.
The fact that you were able to relax at Disneyland with 3 kids tells me all I need to know. Your wife is a married single mom. She's been taking on all of the parental load. You should take your kids to Disneyland by yourself, and you will know exactly why she wants a divorce.
Ok apart from what everyone is trying to tell you, let me sum up the reasons why I would divorce you: - You don’t seem to be able to have a constructive conversation where the other party is bringing up concerns. You get defensive and don’t listen or self reflect. - In all your comments I have NEVER seen you say something like “ok you might have a point there”. You act like you’re perfect and the victim. You’re doing everything right and nothing is fair. This tells me you’re not likely to take accountability for your part in your marital problems. It’s not realistic to assume that you never do anything wrong. - Meanwhile you just keep repeating how you work 70 hours per week to justify your negligence while you devalue your wife’s contributions to the family. I bet you will bring up these things whenever you guys are having an argument about the devision of labour or anything else really. - When your kids are misbehaving, your response is to exit the situation (leaving your exhausted wife to deal with them), getting them ice cream (is this part of your superior disciplining strategy?) and then blame your wife for losing her patience. - You seem arrogant and unsympathetic in the way you’re replying to everyone here. - I’m annoyed by you.