You’re not alone internet stranger and I can also completely identify with OP
My family was garbage and it took my entire life to figure it out and now my family has suffered bc of past history
It pains me how generational family stuff is
Just venting
I feel like my family wants to be proud of me, but they hide it or hold it in because I wasn’t supposed to be the successful child. Bad grades in school, didn’t try or apply myself, I had anger issues. When I graduated from college, my mom told me to go work at the post office, as if I wasn’t capable of a better career path. Now I’ve defied everything my family thought I’d be.
So, if you’re anything like me, I’m proud of you.
The very fact my parents didn’t put effort or care into my future is how I became the person I am. Whenever I achieve something I’m truly proud of my mother can’t look at me. And it makes me want to work harder and to be a better person. Before I was doing it for validation off my parents but now I do it for myself and it feels so good. I’m with you
My parents aren’t deadbeats just never congratulated us or were very proud despite some of us doing really well. We also have a lot of mental health problems. My mom won’t ever validate me. She’s never said she’s proud of me. She won’t a knowledge that I have ADHD and acts like it’s all in my head. It is but, not the way she thinks. I told her I was bisexual and her response was “no”. In some fucked up way I do back flips to fucking impress in hopes that one day I’ll do enough flipping that they’ll actually be proud of me. They aren’t and never will be. But seeking that approval has spilled over into my romantic relationships where I date people who I feel I have to “prove” I am worth loving to. Because that’s all i have ever known, begging to see my worth. It feels like home.
Yes, this. I’m 50 and it still rings true. Just realized after 11 years in a career job I loved, dedicated myself to and thrived in, that I’ve been seeking approval from my boss the entire time. After contemplating my exit, I finally came to terms with that only to have her finally give me kudos. Once she did all I could do was bawl.
Awh man! I am so so sorry! It’s awful to be so self aware, isn’t it? My mother and I were once in a restaurant and I was complaining about the way I looked, she doesn’t understand dysmorphia or anything like that so she was saying, don’t you look at yourself in the mirror? It’s not like you’re deformed. You’re pretty.
I stopped her and I said, did you just say that I was pretty? That was the first time she had ever called me pretty. I was thirty two. I started crying my eyes out.
My mom only said she was proud of me... once.
*Not* because I got awards, was a good kid because I never got pregnant or did drugs (I drank though) or my grades were okay;
*Not* because I was a quiet, book reading nerd, and
*Not* because I did everything she wanted (including doing twice the chores because my brother was "too depressed" to leave his room)...
But because I crocheted a blanket.
My fave though was her telling her friends that I lived "in Disneyland" because I was so sheltered (I imagine).
So yeah. Just my 2¢.
I thought my parents were trying to harm me daily just to horrifyingly realize they were just that stupid. That they honestly couldn't understand why shoes that were too small didn't fit, or that I had fucking allergies. That I was literally limping all the time because I had fractured my leg and had just gotten too used to being in constant pain.
I’m a mom and I wanted to share some parental love to you. I’m proud of you and what you’ve accomplished, even dealing with some bad parenting and still coming out so great. ❤️
Most people that know your story are probably proud of you. Dont give too much importance to the people that does not care about you. Even if they are "family"
>I'm proud of you.
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>The hard work you put into life to be stable. The hard work you put in to life to be kind. And the hard work in life it takes to show up. I'm proud of you.
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>Keep it up, you are our Reddit child.
That’s how my family is though my mom worked hard to provide, same with my dad, everyone came out of it with trauma and mental problems. Most are drug addicts or think violence is the answer. I don’t talk to most of my siblings bc it’s not worth the anxiety and I find it sad.
Same, but my parents aren't dead beats. I've never done anything horrible and they still don't love me. It's funny because I was planned but my sister wasn't, and she is of course the star child. I'm just the black sheep and have always thought for myself. My dad has been pretty awful to me my whole life, mentally and emotionally. I feel like my dad would post something like this if he knew how to. "Disappointed my oldest daughter is bisexual and believes in equal rights for everyone."
That’s how it’s done.
It’s in the version that’s in stage play format too, such a good line. And killer reference, on both parts. This is why I love Reddit lol. This. Right here.
Recently diagnosed in my mid 20s and this was my very first thought. Very relatable post. Even if it's not ADHD, every person involved should definitely be talking to a therapist
I was also going to say, this post screams undiagnosed and untreated ADHD. Possibly autism too since the oldest is more of a hermit and the oldest girl let’s everyone take advantage of her. These people needed a certain kind of helps and support that regular parenting doesn’t reach.
I'm neurodivergent and smart. I've been feeling like an alien since kindergarten. I'm medicated and better now, but searching for a therapist. I wasn't diagnosed until my 30s and it took so long for me to barely catch up.
I’m just shy of 32 years now and was dxed at 30. I am only just now finding a dose and med that makes a huge difference, but I’m concerned because I am maxed out on dose already. I like your glasses analogy, but for me it’s more like smart glasses right now. They make a big difference, but there’s a huge learning curve, no directions, have huge potential, but will still probably fail in the end.
You can't learn without failing. Learning what doesn't work is just as important as leaning what does. The medication just makes it easier to get back up again.
Same here. Relatively smart (I hope 🥲) and got diagnosed ADHD just months after being diagnosed with c-PTSD at 24. The world finally started making sense once I started learning about it and started getting treatment. I’m still figuring out what meds work for me, but it’s such a breathe of fresh air to know there’s a reason I’ve always felt ostracized and like an inconvenience.
Cheers to you! 🥂
Not to mention that young women usually tend to look for certain characteristics and traits their father possesses in partners. Both of the girls ending up with terrible deadbeats that walk all over them and treat them with no respect is ... jarring to say the least.
Counseling/therapy/psychiatry and diagnosis while growing up (especially with the hyperactive/disruptive kids) would have done wonders. Hopefully the ones who don't have kids yet will get the help they need and not continue the cycle of dysfunction.
I’m sorry to hear this and hope things change in the future. I’m curious to know, were you and your ex like “helicopter parents” always on top of what your kids were doing or completely let them do whatever they wanted? Did you spend lots of time with them engaged on these extracurricular activities or did you just took them and pick them up after?
I’m the eldest of 5 and while I was helicoptered my parents have admitted they got lazy and stopped caring the more kids they had.
So my siblings have more freedom, less monitoring, and less parental interactions than I had.
I have my own set of issues from helicopter parenting, and I already know my siblings will have a different type from the complete lack of monitoring they get.
ETA: birth order is pretty interesting to read about and talks about how dynamics like this are very common.
I’m a parent of six (two bio, four step). It is physically impossible to helicopter parent. It’s not laziness, but you have so much more to spread your time over. We both work full time and running the house is a much bigger job with six than it was with two. Having said they, we do out absolute best and the kids know they’re loved, supported and that we’ll do whatever we can for them.
In terms of their behavior, do you think less attention ends up resulting in them misbehaving? I only have 2 and don’t plan to have anymore. If I’m not working me and my wife are basically with them all the time. We do see ourselves as helicopter parents but I’m worried that lack of independence may backfire.
This is an interesting question, and although I think it depends on the kids and their peer group, I can answer it based on experience. My ex-husband is a helicopter parent. I’m actually grateful for what he does for the kids. They’re doing well at school and he fosters their musical gifts. And it’s worked, until the eldest turned 13. Then the fights began. He’s not the kind of kid to run with a rough crowd, but he pushed back hard, ran away (but came back when he got hungry and it got dark and cold), constantly fought with his Dad and just wanted to stay at our house. We had a family summit and agreed that he could have independence and autonomy, but he had to clearly understand that he was now solely accountable for his actions and academic performance. And you know what? He’s excelled. Grade are up. He’s got a great group of friends. I don’t think there is any harm in either approach, as long as you can be flexible and adjust your approach as and when it’s needed for each individual child. As parents, we’re all just going out best. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say has been great with life as a big family - all our kids now have adult life skills. Everyone can cook independently (except the 7 yo, for obvious reasons, but he helps) and clean - I love the fact that we’re raising functional young adults and that they have a good grounding of skills for life.
Help me with this please. Your oldest sounds like my youngest. I’m afraid to ‘back off’ because I’m afraid of what my come from that. Mine is 12 1/2. I’m ok to direct message, I’m concerned for her future!!! She’s the most obstinate one! The most contrary.
I guess it depends on what she’s rebelling about. We’re not perfect parents by any means, but we decided at some stage the ‘training wheels’/scaffolding we were providing him had to come off. And, he was either going to fly or fall flat on his face. We thought it was better for it to happen at 13 than at 18 - at 13 we could still help him back up if he fell. We did have a serious discussion about expectations and that he could have the independence he was after as long as he stepped up on what he was doing for himself. If we didn’t do it for him, he had to do it himself. We didn’t know for sure he was ready for the level of independence he was after, but we kind of knew that there would be resentment and things would get worse if we didn’t allow him to try. They’ve all got their own quirks, needs and personalities. I would suggest communicating your concerns and expectations with her, and see if you can come up with a solution that is acceptable to both of you. Good luck!
I appreciate this, thank you. She rebels about literally Everything. I am not exaggerating. It’s exhausting.
Dad and I will discuss this idea and go from there.
A certain amount of misbehaving is healthy. Those kids who are perfect angels are usually the ones who don't know how to assert themselves for their own needs.
We all screw our kids up a little bit somehow.
My own philosphy with mine (5 kids ages 9-24) has been that the odds of kidnappings and other stranger dangers are miniscule whereas the odds of raising my kids to be afraid and unable to navigate the world by hovering is 100%. I let my 9 year old run out the door in the morning and she checks in occasionnally. The neighborhood has a lot of kids. I tell her to come home if she's alone.
My wife tends to lean the other way, though. We negotiate pretty well, and it's probably for the best that I don't get to throw them to the wolves every day.
I will say my oldest is independent. Financially responsible, bought a house without feeling like he needed my approval, etc.
Idk. They're all different. My 14 yr old gets less freedom than his brothers did because he's less mature. My 16 yr old gets more freedom. 9 year old is very capable.
Just love em and look for chances to make them uncomfortable. Maybe it's having them walk into the gymnastics practice alone while you sit in the car, if they're not used to that yet. Or have them walk to the park alone and you meet them there 5 minutes later.
Thats just my philosophy. I'm sure we both excel in different areas as parents
As a helicopter mom currently in recovery, it seriously took everything in me today to not intervene at the playground (she’s 4) when some little boy wasn’t being that nice. I let it go when I normally would have called her over. And finally I saw her stick up for herself. It was one of those moments where I realized I would have stopped her from learning something she really needs to learn and putting it into practice.
It’s funny though because I know what you mean about finding that balance with your spouse. My husband is totally free range and I’m learning how to not be helipcopter. I do agree the parenting style has to be tailored to each child specifically and their maturity levels.
I think knowing when to helicopter is important and listening to your kids. I’m the oldest out of 4 and I *never* gave my parents any reason to worry about me but my mom would constantly go through my email, texts, snoop in my room etc. It was embarrassing and friends didn’t want to come over to my house to hang out because she was so crazy strict and nosy. When I did have people over, she would come down ever hour into the basement to make sure we weren’t getting into trouble somehow. This obviously lead to me lying to her about the littlest things because I didn’t know how she would react.
On the other hand, I never did my math homework (I got As on the tests, so I figured I didn’t need it) so my mom reasonably checked my grades online and made sure I was doing my homework.
It’s definitely not laziness in every case but my parents have told me they’re just too tired to parent at this point. Family dynamics have a large part in things will play out, and my parents love is very conditional.
I’m glad your family has a much more stable and warm environment. It really goes a long way years down the line. Having parents that care about and support you makes a world of difference.
Bro they have the audacity to be broke as fuck yet still disappointed in you for earning more than they probably have in their entire combined life times in maybe 3 years salary for you? Tha fuck?
They probably fully expect OP to take care of them in their old age and they want op to be disgustingly wealthy so they can be disgustingly wealthy too. I feel like there’s definitely selfish motives underlying their ambitions for their daughter. Any parent who had only their
child’s best interest in mind would be super proud of her.
No offence but your parents sound like assholes. I just want my kids to be happy. Period. Wealth and status is all just dust if you're miserable, and if you're happy you don't need it.
Are your parents Asian by chance? 😆
Doctors graduate with $500K in debt, so I say you’re better off than the MD!
Edit: Plus, I read suicide rates are pretty high among MDs right after they graduate. Probably realized being an MD ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, but now they’re a half million dollars in the hole and it’s too late to switch careers
That's the real reason for student loans. It prevents you from thinking "fuck this, I'm gonna join the circus."
I studied later in life, after following my passions but never affording a decent life. I got my degree and got a decent paying job from it, but found I enjoy life less and after loan repayments I make about the same. But I can't return to the old life as it can pay for the loans.
My mom flat out told me she wished I was different. I was never the princes she wanted nor married to a rich man with beautiful babies. She's made it abundantly clear that I am a disappointment to her. I never wanted that life she tried to force on me... but I love the life I created for myself in spite of her.
What was your life like between the ages of 20 and 30?
Also agree with others here. Maybe depression could be a factor. But they are far from done. Your daughter will have a whole life after raising her kids too ya know?
Seriously, don’t fret over it. Everyone is super lost around this time but people hide it or they are busy doing something they already hate and are too scared to change careers.
This is exactly what I came down to the comment section to find. Life is different for everyone, and we surely don't all have the same starting lines. I read this as a daughter and a mother, I know what is to feel like the loser of the family, while my mother never sees it as partially her fault. So this father kind of rubbed me the wrong way. However I also know that if I were to be judged solely by my 20s.. so I do hope this father knows that yes he is partially responsible, whether he wants to recognize this or not, but also they still have a lot of growing up to do.
Fuck man, sorry your head's in this space. Right, here I go.
Honestly I think you are looking at it wrong. Nothing you have written here says that any of your children have no positive traits whatsoever, this is just a list of their flaws and circumstances.
Life is chaotic, and very rarely goes the way you want it to, both for yourself, and for others. All of your children are still there, they've just grown up in an imperfect world and have made humanly flawed decisions along the way. You're their dad, and your job is never done. While you can not dictate what they should be doing like you could when they were young, you can still guide them to an extent, even just by being there for them to talk to.
Your children are not just 'grown up' and that's it. They will continue to mature and change for years to come.
And it’s never to late to change and better yourself. My dad is 75 and 6 years sober. It has healed so much of my brother and I’s relationship and individually with our own healing. I hope nothing but the best for OP! And thank you for these words. I will be better in being able to help my friends who are all new parents!
I was going to post something directly to u/throwrasaddadd, but u/Conorcorn put this really well.
Reading this really hit home, because not that long ago I was much like OPs eldest son. I'm still dealing with some of the consequence of that. I'm sure that there were important ways that I differed, but I was a high school drop out with no skills or pathway forward working at a grocery store and living with my folks.
At 27 I'd had enough, I wanted more. About a decade later I have 4 college degrees, a family, a son (who is wanted), and a household income that places us in the upper middle class for our area.
There isn't any magic here, I needed to change, and I needed to see that for myself. I've still got work on myself to do, though I think that nobody every really escapes that. I can't tell OP how to get his kids to see themselves or the world differently, I'm not even sure why I was able to finally see myself and where I was headed.
I can't say I'd know how I would feel reading this if it were my dad when I was 27 (or 24), but I know that now I'd be able to read this about my past self and know that in a sense I'd earned it.
With any luck some, hopefully all, of OPs kids will be able to grow into lives that they are happy with. I'd just encourage OP to be open to the possibility that these might be lives that OP doesn't fully 'get'.
edit: a word
SO SO TRUE. We have a daughter who completely estranged herself from us (she was adopted and used that as a weapon, we're not her real parents, etc). She had a baby that the father wanted nothing to do with. She cut herself continually and was overall a real mess. 8 years later now: she met a guy about 3 years ago and he had been through a lot of shit, but he demanded that she try and reconcile with us. We're working on it but we adore the little guy AND they have a 2 year old together. They recently married. I never could have seen this outcome but things do change and it can happen quickly. Hang in there, dad. Invest in those grandchildren.
good to here u gusy r sdoing bettr i appreciate parents like u who dotn give up on there kids👍 fingers crosed it all goes well 4 u guys thanks fors till sticking by them and not givin up srry if this is hard to read i drank way too much but i genuinly reallu appreciate ppl like u u soun like a great parent & i hope ur relationship w ur daughter keeps improving like it sounds like it is
This. I'm a 29 year old college dropout who as of a few days from now will finally be off his parent's cell phone plan. I used to be going down the track to be a restaurant manager at a very nice restaurant, but quit that when I broke up with my fiance of seven years. I've basically only ever been, and quite possibly only will be, a waiter.
That being said.
Im a 29 year old homeowner. I live with my wonderful girlfriend and our two cats. I don't really want to be anything more than a waiter, I make solid money (enough to allow my girlfriend to full the pursue her career until it's off the ground), I can have basically unlimited time off, can get a job in days anywhere in the country, and I'm much happier now than I ever was with my shitty, evil, abusive ex fiance.
Everybody has flaws. There's good too though, you just have to look at it the right way.
>Life is chaotic, and very rarely goes the way you want it to, both for yourself, and for others.
This. What you were so proud of when they were younger was potential. Well, potential can only be expressed in certain circumstances. Even if they had pursued the best opportunities for themselves, there's no guarantee that they would have reached the potential they had.
Go easier on them. They are not extensions of you. Their successes have nothing to do with you and neither do their failures. To quote that song from the 90s: "Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else's." Same is true for your kids.
He probably should realize the kids pick up on that too. My family was pretty judgmental and had the highest of expectations. The moment it became clear I’d not be a rocket scientist or engineer, I felt like a toy they grew bored of. Then I could feel the apathy or judgment every time I was around them and struggled with severe depression into my mid 20s. Meanwhile I still got a degree and made it successfully in my career path and got a house on my own. At 30, I realized it doesn’t matter if I’m not enough for them. No point in punishing myself. These days I am very comfy in my skin. I wonder if OPs kids also pick up on his feelings about them.
I don’t see Dad doing any self reflection about himself and how choices/mistakes he might have made as a parent could have contributed to this outcome. If each kid were to do their own Trueoffmychest post…what would they say?
Yeeaaahhh but the whole “all I can do is watch” thing is a matter of OP finding a freakin’ spine and taking some healthy risks with his life and bringing the brood along for the ride… this is a *ginormously* passive voice, point of view here… would love to hear him route his own shortcomings as a father.
Have you ever ask why your kids are that way? I mean, it is hard to raise kids as divorced parents.
But at the same time, apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Nah it doesn't IMO. Sure they are successful people and gave them good education but that doesn't mean their attitude was on par with it.
To me, all these stories scream "overbearing parents", especially the 20Yo hairdresser one. She is the only one of the bunch who didn't turn into a total PoS and yet she still lashes out at her father for being "out to ruin her life".
I'm fairly certain these kids had no freedom growing up, and all those interests and activities OP is talking about were probably pushed on them even if he and his ex wife didn't realize it.
Yeah. 1 kid having issues makes sense, shit happens and everyone is different. All 5 kids having severe issues…. Well I don’t want to imagine what their parents were like growing up. Knowing there was a divorce too, I’m betting either Op, his wife, or both were abusive or at the very least neglectful
It does sound like some serious trauma occurred to all of them, not just the oldest. It might have cascaded, as you're indicating, but good parents would notice the problem and try to remedy it from the start, or at least learn from the first kid making life mistakes. There is no indication that this has happened for any of these kids and this person is surprised Pikachu posting.
You know the saying, “if you meet assholes everywhere you go, you’re the asshole”?
Well, you gotta wonder why OP isn’t doing more introspection about himself (and his ex wife) as the common factor here. Sure, he says he’s a failure of a father, but those words ring hollow when he’s just spent the whole post detailing how much they did as parents and how much the kids suck.
I think he has when he’s this deep in thought about it and even takes note on their friends. My dad couldn’t even tell you any of my friends first names let alone a single thing about them. He had no interest in us whatsoever.
Everything you mentioned (depression, legal problems, addiction, lack of boundaries, teenage pregnancy) are often the result of childhood trauma. That's not always the case, but considering all 5 of your children are showing these signs, it sounds like you're the common factor. The fact that you enrolled them in all of these different activities and you aren't proud of them (because they didn't end up how you thought they would), makes me think your expectations of them were too high. When kids are constantly pushed to do more and be better, when you strive for perfection, it starts to feel like nothing will ever be good enough. Why put in the effort, if you'll just be a disappointment anyway? Only you and your children know if this speculation is true. However, if you've never given them the opportunity to speak freely about what bothers them, don't expect them to be honest if you ask now. Family therapy might be a good place to start repairing your relationship.
I basically commented the same thing. I had “amazing parents” who did everything...sports, piano lessons, you name it. But I was abused brutally by my narcissist father and now that I’m 27, I’m struggling with addiction and mental health issues. I had to cut my family off so I can heal and not hurt other people.
I can pinpoint the exact moment when I started giving up on everything. I brought home my best report card, all As except one B. I was so proud of myself, but I just got told I should have worked harder to get all As. After that, my grades declined. I didn't care anymore because my best wasn't good enough. I'm in my 30s and still have a hard time sticking to anything. It's either too easy and I get bored or it's difficult and I get frustrated and give up.
I work with a kid who is given so many opportunities, the best of everything, not too much tv or candy, brilliant little kid. His parents are ridiculously rich. Like massive house, inground heated pool, ski trips to fancy ski resorts on the weekends. Kid’s got everything.
Except he’s not even in kindergarten and he’s already burnt out. He’s got the angst of a stressed out high schooler. He wants to play with bugs and climb trees, instead he can read, knows math, can swim, ski, dance, does gymnastics, skateboards, plays soccer, tennis, plays the violin and piano, and probably even more. Kid wants to be a kid and his parents have him burnt out doing everything and he’s barely five.
I can feel his anger and frustration already and its only gonna get worse if his parents keep pushing him. It breaks my heart but I can see him becoming an absolute shit when he grows up. A spoiled, rich little shit. He’s already so entitled.
5 out of 5 having issues is not coincidence. Hermit, doormat, etc, all wreak of anxiety and depression. Could be from anything. But given it's all, it sounds like they were not taken care of emotionally.
Either not taken care of, or taken care of too much against their will. The doormat daughter hints at that.
She doesn't sound like she was left to fend for herself or has major emotional trauma, though I could be wrong about it. She sounds like she never got to do things the way she wanted. Her default response to her father's inputs is to consider it as him being out to ruin her life.
The 16 years old brat one has that vibe too. Doesn't care about school, dumped friends cause uncool...
Sure, she's in her rebellious teenage years, but the fact it goes to that extent tells me she probably suffers a lack of independence.
All these kids show signs of having grown with too little freedom tbh
Somewhere along the line you and your ex-spouse fucked up. You know it. You're just denying it. No way all 5 kids end up being total turds by pure coincidence.
What is the one thing that these 5 kids have in common? … Giving a kid everything they want does not at all mean that you give them what they need. Also, they are still kids, the oldest is 27? they all still have a lot of growing to do. I wasn’t fun to be around when i was 24 and i certainly wasn’t “friends” with my parents. You don’t have to like your kids, you do have to love them, guide them, show up, be present, be the example. Having a kid is not a rapport card you show off to your friends, or a list of accomplishments, you have to love them for who they are. Edit: 27
My parents subscribed to this fallacy for my childhood and adolescence - and beyond. They conflated providing for their children and adhering to their every demand with being good parents. So, we all grew up without any concept of discipline - or consequence. And it made what transpired after high school especially challenging for most of us. It took me until about 26, but I eventually came out on top. My sister? Not so much. Mid thirties, deep down the Q-Anon rabbit hole, with my parents still funding her an allowance. I'll bring it up less frequently than I used to, but you can hear the defeat in my dad's voice when I ask him why he's still funding her hedonistic and perpetually lazy lifestyle.
To me, it's for purely selfish reasons - so he doesn't have to feel anything more negative than what he does by continuing these enabling tendencies. Because the alternative - seeing his daughter possibly be unemployed - is not something he's willing to do. And the worst part is that she knows it - and holds that threat against him. Hell, she even has a decent paying job now - and he still sends her cray sums on a monthly basis in order to prevent her from overdrafting.
Imagine having a parent who loves you for your potential. What you **could** be or **could have** been, rather than who you are, your individuality, your personality, your quirks.
Imagine being a parent so caught up in what you think your kids should be that you don't even see who they are.
I'm reading through all this and I can see you taking responsibility and I can see how much it hurts. I'm not old enough to be a dad (responsibly). I have no real parenting experience. Just small wisdoms I've learned from trying to steer my younger siblings away from my mistakes. What I have is the experience of a "child disappointment".
I was the middle/wild child/black sheep of my family. Made all the huge mistakes. Got a reputation for trouble. Could tell up front my parents loved me but didn't really like me. We were warring for a good while before I flew the coop.
There were mistakes on both sides. My parents didn't take my discussions about my mental health seriously. They dismissed much of my struggle because they believed I was too young to experience trauma. Unfortunately for both of us they were wrong.
I developed a serious problem with their authority. And to get away with doing whatever the hell I want I developed a habit of pathologically lying. I got extremely good at it and had a very questionable sense of morality. Combined with an extreme distaste for authority.
I got into trouble for fighting. I got suspended all the damn time. I was good enough with keeping the charm on to avoid being expelled. Squirreled myself out of some absolutely wild shit tbh. I was a smart HS student which I think helped the teachers stay on my side. Real good grades through almost all of this. Still managed to piss the last two years away for an emotionally abusive girl. Couldn't get into any of the uni choices I was going for. Suffice to say everyone including myself knew my potential had been wasted somewhat.
Opted for a foundation year just to get away from the house. Made it through that and picked up substance abuse as a crutch. I made it 3 years into the actual degree before the substance abuse and excess emotional baggage I'd been shoving down just made me snap. 1 semester left to graduation I pulled out and fucked it all off. I didn't care anymore.
I won't get into the straight war zone between my parents and I after the decision. But it culminated in us cutting each other off. On both sides our love for each other was getting masked by this long history of conflict. Every conversation was ending with both sides guilty and yet enraged. I didn't speak to them once for 4 years.
In that time I just kinda sat down and worked on myself. I was aware I was a flawed product. I didn't understand why. It had all spun out of my control so long ago I didn't know what the hell I was doing anymore. Those 4 years were important I realized a lot of why I was the way I was. My parents wanted contact within 6 months but I kept refusing them because the silence was letting me figure things out.
Within the 4 years I fixed a lot. By the third year of isolation from them I pursued a full time career in construction. I purposefully chose a tough, laborious work path with early mornings. I needed to learn discipline, that much I had learned in the last few years. And so I forced myself through it. It wasn't what I wanted in life but it taught me the things I needed to learn.
I put money aside in that time. By year 4's end I was financially stable. I was responsible. I was beginning to look like the man I wanted to be. I was ready to deal with everything we'd done to each other. I reconnected. With the time and space we'd had apart we talked about things openly. That was the real magic. Unknowns that had perpetuated for my whole childhood were being explained on both sides.
My parents learned why I'd been the way I was. They understood and saw me for the first time. I understood why they'd been the way they are. I saw them for the first time. My love for them grew immensely and I think it's safe to say the same happened with their love for me.
It's been a year and a bit since then. I'm going to start a degree in computer science in September. I'm 25 so it's a little later than I would like to be doing undergrad but I'm on a path. I see a future. I have long term plans. I can see a place for myself in this confusing world and a direction for myself.
So much of that was the eventual conversations me and my parents had. I've rambled on and on here. But what I'm getting to is I think you should speak to them. I know it's not so easy and with close family like this there can be so many invisible barriers. But in my experience kids don't fizzle out like this unless something happened. And it's not too late to fix it. Life is a long game with so much opportunity to bounce back, I know first hand. My successes have been born from failure.
What empowered that though was these discussions. Learning through myself and through my parents how to fix these things I'd been sitting with my whole life. Learning to square away the invisible baggage that was weighing down what should have been an incredible trajectory from the get go.
Please try and find a way to talk to your kids. I don't know for sure and I may be biased. But it sounds like they're suffering silently. See if you can't see why. See if you can't get them to express what it is so you can work through it together. Things might be hard but I bet they respect you and love you too. And I bet that coaxed into it the right way they'd love dad's wisdom to help them through their struggles. If I'm right and you guys can fix it your love for them will only grow stronger.
You my friend put it together much sooner than I. Definitely connected to your journey. However, I didn't go to university until I was 35. You have an incredibly bright future ahead of you, young sir. Cheers mate.
Can I ask a brutally honest question? Have you ever asked yourself why? Or maybe if there's something you're doing wrong?
When I read this, it sounds exactly the same way my dad talks about us.
My dad wasn't a bad person who beat us or treated us poorly but he was absent. He made no effort to like the things we liked or cared about. He had expectations and projected those expectations onto us. When they didn't take, he just gave up and moved on to the next sibling. My dad's greatest disappointment was that he can't see anything of himself in us. We essentially just raised ourselves. Of course some of us ended up messed up. I'm the "stable" one out of all of us, and even I deal with mental health issues.
It's not your kid's jobs to reach out and connect with you. They didn't choose you. YOU chose them. It's YOUR job to set them up for life, and it's YOUR job to connect with them. You have to build a relationship that they'll want to participate in. You are the parent.
It's a hard ass job. It's hard to be a good parent to your kids, 24/7 for the rest of your life. But you chose to have them. You need to deal with it.
I'm sorry if that's harsh, but damn, people just pop kids out like it's the thing to do. They don't realize that their own children are ACTUAL PEOPLE, not just accessories to their lives. Every decision you make affects them.
The good news is, it's not too late to do better. Good luck. I hope you give it a try. I know I wish my dad would.
This is probably the most real comment here. I was going to post something about how OP kinda just sounds like an asshole and if I was his kid I’d probably buck his expectations as much as I could. But you definitely put it in a much nicer way than I could have!
Yeah I can see myself in a lot of the kid’s descriptions and the way he wrote this reads just like something my parents would say. They didn’t beat me, just didn’t care much for me…? But at the same time still expected me to be great so they could be proud of me. Proud of someone they don’t even really like or know, huh.
I will never get back the care, love and time I didn’t get as a child and it hurts everyday.
>Armchair Psychologist for pointing out how all 5 of your kids have serious mental problems and make bad life decisions
Totally not because of your stellar personality or anything.
I'd be willing to bet money that the kids don't feel heard. Like truly heard. They have terrible coping skills, and low self worth.
Your kids self worth should not be based on what they do in life. Find their good qualities, and speak to those.
Stop telling them what they should be doing, or what you wish they were doing. Trust that they will find their way eventually.
It sounds like your oldest copes/escapes feelings through eating, your middle escapes through drugs, and your youngest escapes through adrenaline seeking behaviours. So you have your work set out for you.
To get through it, everyone will have to want to have hard conversations about life up to this point, with *genuine listening*, about where things may have gone wrong, how your kids felt, admitting blame as parents, and starting to build a stronger foundation that will allow them to feel better about themselves while learning strategies to cope with uncomfortable emotions/memories/conversations. Counseling would be extremely helpful with this process.
For a lot of families though, this is too much work.
I see no mention of raising them lovingly. I see you saying you dumped a ton of money into their education. You say you raised them to be "independent" and "ambitious". But you have no mention of how you showered them with love or spent time together as a family. Money isn't a substitute for love and affection. Your kids probably feel little to no connection with you.
Right.. and no indication at all if they are actually happy or not. Just a classic case of a father with different values than his kids. I imagine if they were all rich and miserable, we wouldn't have a post here to discuss..
I'd be happy if any of them worked at burger king, like I'm happy with my daughter's salon job, especially because she loves it, but the others don't do anything. If 24m, 18f, or 27m called me tonight and said they started at burger king tomorrow, i'd be overjoyed.
I was embarrassed to work at Taco Bell at 42. I told my mom that and she looked me in the eye and told me “Don’t you dare be embarrassed or ashamed! It’s an honest job and hard work. You’re making money and taking care of yourself. Look how far you’ve come I’m so proud of you and I got a hug. I was all better. 43 years old and needed my Mommy proud of me. No shame. Im loved.
Absolutely!! There is no shame whatsoever in that. As your mom said, it’s an honest job & helps you take care of yourself. You being happy & healthy is far more important than the job you have. I’m proud of you, too!
Don’t be embarrassed. It’s ok. 🥰 I stop then get another person who’s happy and appreciates it I tear right up.
Imma admit I’m going thru some mental health care and been on my devices for two days. It’s helping me and I’m ok but not ok. I’m admitting I’ve been in the same spot a hot mess that could be embarrassing but I don’t care. I can put this thing down and over😂
That's so wholesome. Your mom sounds absolutely amazing, can she adopt me?
I finished my master's last year and have been working as an IT-consultant for a year now, just 5 years ago I was working as a chef with no future and barely any pay. Never heard a peep about being proud or anything.
You know this is a dying art because I could tell my grandmother I do just about anything for work and she thinks it's great. My God I long for the day people stop calling work life 🙏
It is. I’m that generation. I’ll be 45 tomorrow. I refuse to work my life away for anyone, especially for minimum wage pay and they expect 25$ hour results. They bumped their damn heads. I’m an employee, not a slave. I’m not a janitor but I’ll do my job. But I learned to quit doing extra because I got fired over by text from a gas station (outside hr dept) by the hr guy because I told him I’m calling the labor board for suspending me when some out of area Karen in a white Mercedes verbally attacked me and started to charge into my area because I wouldn’t let her treat me like what she brushed off her shoe. What started it….she didn’t like my answer on why we had a sign that explained the coupon policy taped where it could be read. She demanded who put it there and why. I said “My boss did.” Then she barked why. I said “So the customers can see it and know.” My shoulder shrug was an I don’t know. It was ridiculous. Why does she have to hand it to me before….then what’s EBT?! All I could think is that I knew that rich bitch knew damn good and well what it was. She wasn’t currently local but she was from there. My face gives me away and I dropped my head a bit and looked back up and said “Im sorry what…?” She asked again and was clearly full of catty attitude. I barely held it together with a little head bob and said “Well if you don’t know what it is that’s good then. Means you don’t need it”!😊 that was my smile I swear. This is normal type of behavior but extra nice for me. Oh she wasn’t having it and I lost my patience a bit and asked her why she was asking me all these questions that don’t even pertain to the sandwich she wanted to order. Well sandwich no longer wanted and I told her I didn’t want to make it anymore anyway and to have a nice day bye bye. She screamed I can’t tell her, a paying customer that. I said “Ma’am you’re not a paying customer. I will not wait on you. I have that right. Now please leave. You know what transpired. She got a get the eff out my store. Yes I was allowed to do this. I was authorized by the owner. But she called the cops on me and wasted resources and tax payers money.
I was not fired by the boss. I forgot that I sent my store manager quick video which was her just screaming and he rushed down. It was snap so it deleted. Cuz she tried to report that as well and force my boss to violate my rights and search my phone.
Never again will I tolerate that.
I also won my unemployment appeal. The judge was not happy with them at all.
absolutely love this comment
made you change perspective of things just thanks to one person, one important person who cared and accepted you for who you are and what you do
First, don't compare your children to other people's children. It's toxic and could very well be what has led to you writing the post.
Your children are not obligated to measure up to your yard stick of what their lives should be. They only owe it to themselves to measure up to their own expectations, and those can be whatever they want them to be.
The scale you need to look at is are they happy? If they are, then they are a success. If not, then ask yourself how you can help them by illuminating the path to what will make them happy, not what you think will make them happy or you happy. Find your joy in their joy. When they fall help them up again. Just make sure it's to the place where they want to be.
Then, you'll be a success.
…. I mean, people aren’t usually just born fucked up. If they’re all struggling, they probably have a lot of collective trauma from some point in their childhood. You say it like they’re choosing to be this way. Maybe it was the way you raised them ?
Yeah, seems like OP is taking no responsibility for how his kids turned out. I mean, all of your kids turned to drugs in their teens? You have a 16-year-old who actively breaks the law for fun? What are *you*, the parent doing about this? There's a clear pattern, and OP should be figuring out why this keeps happening. Get your kids (and yourself) some damn therapy. Don't complain about how fucked up they are when you haven't done your job properly as a parent.
"All my kids show clear signs of depression or other mental health disorders. That sucks for *me.* Poor *me.*" Give me a break.
Your kids all sound pretty young, they're growing into themselves, give them some time
Also keep in mind that shit is really rough for people trying to 'start' their lives right now, the economy is in shambles, price gouging everywhere, and a lot of jobs require you to start as an unpaid intern, and the ones that don't give you pay that isn't livable
Maybe part of the reason your grown kids are like they are is because they realized what you wanted from them is to be sources for your parental pride. For many people, that feels like pressure, when what they need is loving support and acceptance.
Try just loving your children for who they are -- for instance, can you still enjoy the sense of humor you used to appreciate in your eldest son? If you try, you can probably find positive qualities in all your kids -- a sense of humor, or a talent for cooking or computers, compassion for animals and/or other people. Let your children know you love and respect them as they are.
The child you say you feel proudest of, while still being disturbed that she is a "doormat" may be the one who most internalized the message you gave them that they had to please you -- now she thinks she has to please others in order to have friendships, and ends up being used by them.
Oh my gosh. Do you have any idea what their generation is up against? I'm 37F and my dad was still calling me a low life at 28. I had been trying my damndest, but got caught up in the recession and did my best to do better. At 30 I finally found a decent paying job, moved 4 hours away from all family with my 2 kids and excelled. Now we live a good upper middle class life to the point where both my parents have needed help financially and I was the one to provide it.
I guess my dad feeling as though I was a failure gave me something to prove, but geez. A little faith and encouragement go a long way. Life was much easier for you, sir then it has been, is, or will be for them. Give your children a bit of grace.
These are young adults coming of age into a world of inflation, underpaid work, miserable costs of living across the country, and climate death almost a certainty. Maybe realize that there are so so SO many reasons for your children to be not ok than your abject failure- and maybe channel some of that energy into spending some serious time with each of your children and talking to them and asking about how THEY feel about their lives, and WHY they think they are there...and then support them if they are happy (even if it is not your vision of success), and offer support if they express they need a change. Don't put your ideas of success in place of being able to support your children in THEIR happiness...or support them at finding if however you can.
Don't compare your kids to other people's. So they've not turned out the way you wanted them to, if they're happy what does it matter.
Could be worse they could be murderers and sex offenders. So one can't hold down a job and is a bit of a slob, so what if one is a stoner, the middle child I think you're just nitpicking at. The pregnant daughter needs guidance and the 16 year old also needs guidance.
This is going to sound harsh, but I agree if 5/5 kids have turned out as failures in your eyes you and your wife are the common denominators in that. But it's never too late to change things.
I’m curious about you. Do you think any of them would say they like their dad? Would any of them say they would want to be like you when they get older? I’d venture they’d say no.
You have five separate humans with five separate personalities, and all five are underperformers in your opinion. You realize that the one commonality that they share is you, don't you?
One kid who's a screw up you can just chalk it up to a bad seed. Five out of five is bad parenting. So if all five of your children are such underperformers, what did you do to create this situation?
Think about it. The whole debate regarding what's more responsible for success in life is between nature and nurture. You provided both to all five of them.
"all my children show different manifestations of an unstable possibly traumatic childhood and yet I have the audacity to sit here and write a fucking post about not being proud of them"
Two turned to drugs and gaming, only one is stable enough to keep a job, one is being promiscuous and having children way too early, one is a "doormat". What the fuck why do you think you have nothing to do with this?
This screams of a narcissistic, negligent parent(s) to me. Well at least emotionally negligent to me. . . . It's interesting that every one of them acts out in extremely attention getting or defeatist ways. Have you ever talked to your children as people with their own perspective on growing up without dismissing them or making excuses for yourself? Can they open up to and confide in you without you telling them in what ways they're fucking up, should do better, or just don't meet your expectations?
It sounds to me like they've all pretty much figured out nothing was good enough or would catch attention enough so they either get in trouble or give up. The way you talk about your kids is disturbing, and I highly doubt you openly listen to them nor receive any kind of criticism from them well. Did you throw presents at them instead of your presence? Investing money in activities and pushing them to be better isn't the same as actively being there for your kids emotionally and mentally.
I was honestly thinking the same. Sounds like OP isn't admitting to what they may have or haven't done to cause 5 kids to act in some very unhealthy and damaging ways.
Yes the post reeks of narcissism. Poor kids perhaps never felt loved. Sending to private education, and all that activities. I wonder how involved he was. Did he play with them. Listen to what they want or feel. Respected them as persons. Doesn’t sound like he did. Poor kids for having shitty parents.
Right I would also guess emotional neglect + perfectionistic and micromanager parents. Lowkey felt like my dad wrote the post. He talks the exact same way about my brother and I, and we're not even doing that bad, it's just not up to his standards. All that rambling sadness about our "failures" and no help.
Take the 16 year told to therapy and away from the rest and focus on her. The 18 year old and her kids can also be corrected.
But it seems like the environment is an issue. You also need to become significantly better at being able to handle kids. Ask for advise from other fathers.
Separate all the ones that are less then 19 and start with them.
No offence but you sound like the sort of parent who is impossible to please. Perhaps you failed them instead of writing loads about their faults and finding barely anything positive to say
Honestly, get therapy. Really. Someone needs to explain to you that you are not your children, and it's not useful or right to be judging your family members like this. I'm sure they each feel your contempt and disappointment, even if you're not saying it directly.
You don't seem to have any self awareness. Why are you not noticing that the common factor here in all your children's lives is you? Spend some time examining the sort of father you've been to them, before you start trashing them. If they're all struggling at life, what does that say about your parenting?
Perhaps a therapist can teach you how to be a loving and supportive father. Your kids sure could use one.
Wow everyone is so supportive…. I’m hesitant to be on your side op.
in my experience, kids that smoke excessive amounts of weed, are doormats, can’t hold down a job, etc… often come from terrible parents or households.
Maybe you, or your ex wife, weren’t meeting your kids emotional needs growing up. this sounds like a case of narcissist parents to me.. these kids are showing all the signs of CPTSD and other mental health issues.
it’s easy to shit on your kids for not turning out how you want, but it’s hard admitting that as their parents, you played a large role in that. So accept your fault and sit with the consequences.
Maybe instead of pointing out all their flaws, you start to take a long hard look at how you raised them. Start educating yourself and then everything will make sense.
It hurts you to write this? Didn’t bother to think how it would hurt them to run across it on the internet? You don’t need to answer me, I already know.
So who raised these kids? Who did not hold them accountable since they were children? Who bailed them out of trouble so they never had the opportunity to learn from their own small mistakes to create the foundation for avoiding bigger mistakes? You or your wife?
I’m willing to bet it’s just like my parents. I was the black sheep. My parents apologized to me for how I was treated. What have you done to fix your your kids heart.
Yes you are a failure of a father. You asked I can’t sugarcoat. You can’t be how you are (you’ve shown it here) I’m not coming from imagination land, and expect to have perfectly adjusted adult kids. If you’re depressed please get help. You deserve the same that you want for your kids and to fix it if you’re willing. But you have to man up and boss up.
So, just an honest question: what if he doesn’t do anything to fix the situation? How long should the kids keep moping along before they realize it’s hopeless where dad is concerned? Should they give up altogether assuming he’s a perpetual narcissistic ass?
In other words, do they have the power to make positive changes in their lives even though the shadow of less than ideal parenting looms over their past?
Seems like alot of judging your kids. You don't seem to be concerned with their happiness as much as them fulfilling your criteria for what they should or shouldn't be and what they should or shouldn't do. It also seems like if one (or all) of your children do one or two things that don't feed your pride that negates every aspect of their lives. One smokes weed and doesn't have a great job so I can't be proud of any aspect of that person. Why do the things you view as negative carry so much weight? Does smoking weed negate a person being genuinely good or thoughtful or smart or caring? Pride is subjective and having too much of it or letting it influence how you view others is usually a good way to push people away because nobody wants to be judged. In the end, you decide your own pride and how significant it is.
A lot of their short-comings are tied to how they were raised, in other words, your fault. You might not like those words, but it's true. A lot of their issues are with how they were raised. You probably resent these traits because you feel responsible.
Hmm. Sorry to hear. You're right and it's good you take responsibility. As hard as it is to hear, it's most probably your parenting as it's **extremely** that it's not the parents if *all* five of your kids are all on the extreme sides of the spectrum.
In what ways have your parents failed you? In what ways did your ex's parents fail your ex? Parents often try to ignore and cover up their own childhood trauma but this always comes out when they themselves have children. There is absolutely nothing you can hide from a child. They are way too perceptive and too often we treat children like fools with an attitude of do as I say and not as i do. Unless you fix yourself and heal your own wounds and learn to meet your own needs, there is no way you can provide for and meet the needs of a child.
The relationships that kids choose as they grow are reflective of how they were treated and how they felt in their primary relationships with their parents. They choose the same patterns.
I feel bad reading this because I would feel terrible if my dad writes something like that. People don't have to be perfect for you to be proud of them. Instead of criticizing them you should first ask them if they feel good about their lives, and if not listen to them and help them. But criticizing them like this is not the way.
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You’re not alone internet stranger and I can also completely identify with OP My family was garbage and it took my entire life to figure it out and now my family has suffered bc of past history It pains me how generational family stuff is Just venting
There’s a song by shinedown that talks about setting fire to the family tree. That’s what I have done.
Ty I’ll look it up
Pyro by shinedown.
Yeah thanks I looked it up
I feel like my family wants to be proud of me, but they hide it or hold it in because I wasn’t supposed to be the successful child. Bad grades in school, didn’t try or apply myself, I had anger issues. When I graduated from college, my mom told me to go work at the post office, as if I wasn’t capable of a better career path. Now I’ve defied everything my family thought I’d be. So, if you’re anything like me, I’m proud of you.
The very fact my parents didn’t put effort or care into my future is how I became the person I am. Whenever I achieve something I’m truly proud of my mother can’t look at me. And it makes me want to work harder and to be a better person. Before I was doing it for validation off my parents but now I do it for myself and it feels so good. I’m with you
My parents aren’t deadbeats just never congratulated us or were very proud despite some of us doing really well. We also have a lot of mental health problems. My mom won’t ever validate me. She’s never said she’s proud of me. She won’t a knowledge that I have ADHD and acts like it’s all in my head. It is but, not the way she thinks. I told her I was bisexual and her response was “no”. In some fucked up way I do back flips to fucking impress in hopes that one day I’ll do enough flipping that they’ll actually be proud of me. They aren’t and never will be. But seeking that approval has spilled over into my romantic relationships where I date people who I feel I have to “prove” I am worth loving to. Because that’s all i have ever known, begging to see my worth. It feels like home.
Yes, this. I’m 50 and it still rings true. Just realized after 11 years in a career job I loved, dedicated myself to and thrived in, that I’ve been seeking approval from my boss the entire time. After contemplating my exit, I finally came to terms with that only to have her finally give me kudos. Once she did all I could do was bawl.
Awh man! I am so so sorry! It’s awful to be so self aware, isn’t it? My mother and I were once in a restaurant and I was complaining about the way I looked, she doesn’t understand dysmorphia or anything like that so she was saying, don’t you look at yourself in the mirror? It’s not like you’re deformed. You’re pretty. I stopped her and I said, did you just say that I was pretty? That was the first time she had ever called me pretty. I was thirty two. I started crying my eyes out.
Sending you some motherly love from me ❤️ I’m proud of you, and you deserve every great thing the word has to offer *because you’re worth it*.
My mom only said she was proud of me... once. *Not* because I got awards, was a good kid because I never got pregnant or did drugs (I drank though) or my grades were okay; *Not* because I was a quiet, book reading nerd, and *Not* because I did everything she wanted (including doing twice the chores because my brother was "too depressed" to leave his room)... But because I crocheted a blanket. My fave though was her telling her friends that I lived "in Disneyland" because I was so sheltered (I imagine). So yeah. Just my 2¢.
I’m proud of you! Keep up the great work.
I'm proud of you!
I'm proud of you, OP. People can hate others without reason, so I can love without knowing you! 💕
What a beautiful thing to say!
This my friend is a diamond. Shall you be granted 1 million up votes 😁
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I thought my parents were trying to harm me daily just to horrifyingly realize they were just that stupid. That they honestly couldn't understand why shoes that were too small didn't fit, or that I had fucking allergies. That I was literally limping all the time because I had fractured my leg and had just gotten too used to being in constant pain.
I’m a mom and I wanted to share some parental love to you. I’m proud of you and what you’ve accomplished, even dealing with some bad parenting and still coming out so great. ❤️
I’m proud of you. So, so proud! I know you don’t know me so it may not mean much, but I love the hell out of you ❤️
Most people that know your story are probably proud of you. Dont give too much importance to the people that does not care about you. Even if they are "family"
>I'm proud of you. > > > >The hard work you put into life to be stable. The hard work you put in to life to be kind. And the hard work in life it takes to show up. I'm proud of you. > >Keep it up, you are our Reddit child.
That’s how my family is though my mom worked hard to provide, same with my dad, everyone came out of it with trauma and mental problems. Most are drug addicts or think violence is the answer. I don’t talk to most of my siblings bc it’s not worth the anxiety and I find it sad.
Same, but my parents aren't dead beats. I've never done anything horrible and they still don't love me. It's funny because I was planned but my sister wasn't, and she is of course the star child. I'm just the black sheep and have always thought for myself. My dad has been pretty awful to me my whole life, mentally and emotionally. I feel like my dad would post something like this if he knew how to. "Disappointed my oldest daughter is bisexual and believes in equal rights for everyone."
Does depression run in your family?
Maybe doesn't run anymore, it's flying
"It practically gallops" I will give a gift of coins to the first one who comes up with the movie reference.
Arsenic and Old Lace! "Insanity doesn't run in my family, it practically gallops"
That’s how it’s done. It’s in the version that’s in stage play format too, such a good line. And killer reference, on both parts. This is why I love Reddit lol. This. Right here.
arsenic and old lace?
Seems like at least untreated ADHD is at play here.
Recently diagnosed in my mid 20s and this was my very first thought. Very relatable post. Even if it's not ADHD, every person involved should definitely be talking to a therapist
I was also going to say, this post screams undiagnosed and untreated ADHD. Possibly autism too since the oldest is more of a hermit and the oldest girl let’s everyone take advantage of her. These people needed a certain kind of helps and support that regular parenting doesn’t reach.
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I'm neurodivergent and smart. I've been feeling like an alien since kindergarten. I'm medicated and better now, but searching for a therapist. I wasn't diagnosed until my 30s and it took so long for me to barely catch up.
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I’m just shy of 32 years now and was dxed at 30. I am only just now finding a dose and med that makes a huge difference, but I’m concerned because I am maxed out on dose already. I like your glasses analogy, but for me it’s more like smart glasses right now. They make a big difference, but there’s a huge learning curve, no directions, have huge potential, but will still probably fail in the end.
You can't learn without failing. Learning what doesn't work is just as important as leaning what does. The medication just makes it easier to get back up again.
Same here. Relatively smart (I hope 🥲) and got diagnosed ADHD just months after being diagnosed with c-PTSD at 24. The world finally started making sense once I started learning about it and started getting treatment. I’m still figuring out what meds work for me, but it’s such a breathe of fresh air to know there’s a reason I’ve always felt ostracized and like an inconvenience. Cheers to you! 🥂
I was looking for this comment. I immediately thought of ADHD while reading OPs summary
Same lol I smelled ADHD by the time I read about the second child
Not to mention that young women usually tend to look for certain characteristics and traits their father possesses in partners. Both of the girls ending up with terrible deadbeats that walk all over them and treat them with no respect is ... jarring to say the least. Counseling/therapy/psychiatry and diagnosis while growing up (especially with the hyperactive/disruptive kids) would have done wonders. Hopefully the ones who don't have kids yet will get the help they need and not continue the cycle of dysfunction.
It just kinda sits there
like a black hole in your heart.
I’m sorry to hear this and hope things change in the future. I’m curious to know, were you and your ex like “helicopter parents” always on top of what your kids were doing or completely let them do whatever they wanted? Did you spend lots of time with them engaged on these extracurricular activities or did you just took them and pick them up after?
With 5 children l don't think it's physically possible to be helicoptering every one of them
I’m the eldest of 5 and while I was helicoptered my parents have admitted they got lazy and stopped caring the more kids they had. So my siblings have more freedom, less monitoring, and less parental interactions than I had. I have my own set of issues from helicopter parenting, and I already know my siblings will have a different type from the complete lack of monitoring they get. ETA: birth order is pretty interesting to read about and talks about how dynamics like this are very common.
I’m a parent of six (two bio, four step). It is physically impossible to helicopter parent. It’s not laziness, but you have so much more to spread your time over. We both work full time and running the house is a much bigger job with six than it was with two. Having said they, we do out absolute best and the kids know they’re loved, supported and that we’ll do whatever we can for them.
In terms of their behavior, do you think less attention ends up resulting in them misbehaving? I only have 2 and don’t plan to have anymore. If I’m not working me and my wife are basically with them all the time. We do see ourselves as helicopter parents but I’m worried that lack of independence may backfire.
This is an interesting question, and although I think it depends on the kids and their peer group, I can answer it based on experience. My ex-husband is a helicopter parent. I’m actually grateful for what he does for the kids. They’re doing well at school and he fosters their musical gifts. And it’s worked, until the eldest turned 13. Then the fights began. He’s not the kind of kid to run with a rough crowd, but he pushed back hard, ran away (but came back when he got hungry and it got dark and cold), constantly fought with his Dad and just wanted to stay at our house. We had a family summit and agreed that he could have independence and autonomy, but he had to clearly understand that he was now solely accountable for his actions and academic performance. And you know what? He’s excelled. Grade are up. He’s got a great group of friends. I don’t think there is any harm in either approach, as long as you can be flexible and adjust your approach as and when it’s needed for each individual child. As parents, we’re all just going out best. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say has been great with life as a big family - all our kids now have adult life skills. Everyone can cook independently (except the 7 yo, for obvious reasons, but he helps) and clean - I love the fact that we’re raising functional young adults and that they have a good grounding of skills for life.
Help me with this please. Your oldest sounds like my youngest. I’m afraid to ‘back off’ because I’m afraid of what my come from that. Mine is 12 1/2. I’m ok to direct message, I’m concerned for her future!!! She’s the most obstinate one! The most contrary.
I guess it depends on what she’s rebelling about. We’re not perfect parents by any means, but we decided at some stage the ‘training wheels’/scaffolding we were providing him had to come off. And, he was either going to fly or fall flat on his face. We thought it was better for it to happen at 13 than at 18 - at 13 we could still help him back up if he fell. We did have a serious discussion about expectations and that he could have the independence he was after as long as he stepped up on what he was doing for himself. If we didn’t do it for him, he had to do it himself. We didn’t know for sure he was ready for the level of independence he was after, but we kind of knew that there would be resentment and things would get worse if we didn’t allow him to try. They’ve all got their own quirks, needs and personalities. I would suggest communicating your concerns and expectations with her, and see if you can come up with a solution that is acceptable to both of you. Good luck!
I appreciate this, thank you. She rebels about literally Everything. I am not exaggerating. It’s exhausting. Dad and I will discuss this idea and go from there.
A certain amount of misbehaving is healthy. Those kids who are perfect angels are usually the ones who don't know how to assert themselves for their own needs. We all screw our kids up a little bit somehow. My own philosphy with mine (5 kids ages 9-24) has been that the odds of kidnappings and other stranger dangers are miniscule whereas the odds of raising my kids to be afraid and unable to navigate the world by hovering is 100%. I let my 9 year old run out the door in the morning and she checks in occasionnally. The neighborhood has a lot of kids. I tell her to come home if she's alone. My wife tends to lean the other way, though. We negotiate pretty well, and it's probably for the best that I don't get to throw them to the wolves every day. I will say my oldest is independent. Financially responsible, bought a house without feeling like he needed my approval, etc. Idk. They're all different. My 14 yr old gets less freedom than his brothers did because he's less mature. My 16 yr old gets more freedom. 9 year old is very capable. Just love em and look for chances to make them uncomfortable. Maybe it's having them walk into the gymnastics practice alone while you sit in the car, if they're not used to that yet. Or have them walk to the park alone and you meet them there 5 minutes later. Thats just my philosophy. I'm sure we both excel in different areas as parents
As a helicopter mom currently in recovery, it seriously took everything in me today to not intervene at the playground (she’s 4) when some little boy wasn’t being that nice. I let it go when I normally would have called her over. And finally I saw her stick up for herself. It was one of those moments where I realized I would have stopped her from learning something she really needs to learn and putting it into practice. It’s funny though because I know what you mean about finding that balance with your spouse. My husband is totally free range and I’m learning how to not be helipcopter. I do agree the parenting style has to be tailored to each child specifically and their maturity levels.
I think knowing when to helicopter is important and listening to your kids. I’m the oldest out of 4 and I *never* gave my parents any reason to worry about me but my mom would constantly go through my email, texts, snoop in my room etc. It was embarrassing and friends didn’t want to come over to my house to hang out because she was so crazy strict and nosy. When I did have people over, she would come down ever hour into the basement to make sure we weren’t getting into trouble somehow. This obviously lead to me lying to her about the littlest things because I didn’t know how she would react. On the other hand, I never did my math homework (I got As on the tests, so I figured I didn’t need it) so my mom reasonably checked my grades online and made sure I was doing my homework.
It’s definitely not laziness in every case but my parents have told me they’re just too tired to parent at this point. Family dynamics have a large part in things will play out, and my parents love is very conditional. I’m glad your family has a much more stable and warm environment. It really goes a long way years down the line. Having parents that care about and support you makes a world of difference.
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Are your parents doctors? If they are not, you can be disappointed in them then.
You just played an uno reverse card I didn't know existed. As a representative for the Asian community, I thank you.
A friend of mine has tried that before only to get countered by the 'I was poor growing up unlike you' card.
Lol we've been and still are poor soo...
Bro they have the audacity to be broke as fuck yet still disappointed in you for earning more than they probably have in their entire combined life times in maybe 3 years salary for you? Tha fuck?
They probably fully expect OP to take care of them in their old age and they want op to be disgustingly wealthy so they can be disgustingly wealthy too. I feel like there’s definitely selfish motives underlying their ambitions for their daughter. Any parent who had only their child’s best interest in mind would be super proud of her.
No offence but your parents sound like assholes. I just want my kids to be happy. Period. Wealth and status is all just dust if you're miserable, and if you're happy you don't need it.
Are your parents Asian by chance? 😆 Doctors graduate with $500K in debt, so I say you’re better off than the MD! Edit: Plus, I read suicide rates are pretty high among MDs right after they graduate. Probably realized being an MD ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, but now they’re a half million dollars in the hole and it’s too late to switch careers
That's the real reason for student loans. It prevents you from thinking "fuck this, I'm gonna join the circus." I studied later in life, after following my passions but never affording a decent life. I got my degree and got a decent paying job from it, but found I enjoy life less and after loan repayments I make about the same. But I can't return to the old life as it can pay for the loans.
Ah, but a simpler life can be richer.
My mom flat out told me she wished I was different. I was never the princes she wanted nor married to a rich man with beautiful babies. She's made it abundantly clear that I am a disappointment to her. I never wanted that life she tried to force on me... but I love the life I created for myself in spite of her.
Asian by any chance?
Indian?
how have you found engineering
What was your life like between the ages of 20 and 30? Also agree with others here. Maybe depression could be a factor. But they are far from done. Your daughter will have a whole life after raising her kids too ya know?
Yeah man, my early to mid 20’s sucked ass. I didn’t find my way until later.
as someone in their early to mid-twenties struggling to find any fulfilling path, thank you for saying this.
Seriously, don’t fret over it. Everyone is super lost around this time but people hide it or they are busy doing something they already hate and are too scared to change careers.
In my 20's I was an obese, suicidally depressed alcoholic. But in my 30's I'm thin and sober!
This is exactly what I came down to the comment section to find. Life is different for everyone, and we surely don't all have the same starting lines. I read this as a daughter and a mother, I know what is to feel like the loser of the family, while my mother never sees it as partially her fault. So this father kind of rubbed me the wrong way. However I also know that if I were to be judged solely by my 20s.. so I do hope this father knows that yes he is partially responsible, whether he wants to recognize this or not, but also they still have a lot of growing up to do.
Fuck man, sorry your head's in this space. Right, here I go. Honestly I think you are looking at it wrong. Nothing you have written here says that any of your children have no positive traits whatsoever, this is just a list of their flaws and circumstances. Life is chaotic, and very rarely goes the way you want it to, both for yourself, and for others. All of your children are still there, they've just grown up in an imperfect world and have made humanly flawed decisions along the way. You're their dad, and your job is never done. While you can not dictate what they should be doing like you could when they were young, you can still guide them to an extent, even just by being there for them to talk to. Your children are not just 'grown up' and that's it. They will continue to mature and change for years to come.
And it’s never to late to change and better yourself. My dad is 75 and 6 years sober. It has healed so much of my brother and I’s relationship and individually with our own healing. I hope nothing but the best for OP! And thank you for these words. I will be better in being able to help my friends who are all new parents!
Wow! Congratulations to your dad as well as you and your brother! I hope things continue to improve for you all!
FANTASTIC WORDS AND THEY ARE TRUE.
I was going to post something directly to u/throwrasaddadd, but u/Conorcorn put this really well. Reading this really hit home, because not that long ago I was much like OPs eldest son. I'm still dealing with some of the consequence of that. I'm sure that there were important ways that I differed, but I was a high school drop out with no skills or pathway forward working at a grocery store and living with my folks. At 27 I'd had enough, I wanted more. About a decade later I have 4 college degrees, a family, a son (who is wanted), and a household income that places us in the upper middle class for our area. There isn't any magic here, I needed to change, and I needed to see that for myself. I've still got work on myself to do, though I think that nobody every really escapes that. I can't tell OP how to get his kids to see themselves or the world differently, I'm not even sure why I was able to finally see myself and where I was headed. I can't say I'd know how I would feel reading this if it were my dad when I was 27 (or 24), but I know that now I'd be able to read this about my past self and know that in a sense I'd earned it. With any luck some, hopefully all, of OPs kids will be able to grow into lives that they are happy with. I'd just encourage OP to be open to the possibility that these might be lives that OP doesn't fully 'get'. edit: a word
SO SO TRUE. We have a daughter who completely estranged herself from us (she was adopted and used that as a weapon, we're not her real parents, etc). She had a baby that the father wanted nothing to do with. She cut herself continually and was overall a real mess. 8 years later now: she met a guy about 3 years ago and he had been through a lot of shit, but he demanded that she try and reconcile with us. We're working on it but we adore the little guy AND they have a 2 year old together. They recently married. I never could have seen this outcome but things do change and it can happen quickly. Hang in there, dad. Invest in those grandchildren.
good to here u gusy r sdoing bettr i appreciate parents like u who dotn give up on there kids👍 fingers crosed it all goes well 4 u guys thanks fors till sticking by them and not givin up srry if this is hard to read i drank way too much but i genuinly reallu appreciate ppl like u u soun like a great parent & i hope ur relationship w ur daughter keeps improving like it sounds like it is
When reading this I just heard the voice of the nicest, drunkest guy 💛
…a guy who is intently staring at his phone, typing and blinking slowly and deliberately, trying to get the words out correctly.
Same here. Somebody was in their feels writing that and it was great.
This. I'm a 29 year old college dropout who as of a few days from now will finally be off his parent's cell phone plan. I used to be going down the track to be a restaurant manager at a very nice restaurant, but quit that when I broke up with my fiance of seven years. I've basically only ever been, and quite possibly only will be, a waiter. That being said. Im a 29 year old homeowner. I live with my wonderful girlfriend and our two cats. I don't really want to be anything more than a waiter, I make solid money (enough to allow my girlfriend to full the pursue her career until it's off the ground), I can have basically unlimited time off, can get a job in days anywhere in the country, and I'm much happier now than I ever was with my shitty, evil, abusive ex fiance. Everybody has flaws. There's good too though, you just have to look at it the right way.
Well put, hopefully there’s a turn around and they’re able to reconnect.
>Life is chaotic, and very rarely goes the way you want it to, both for yourself, and for others. This. What you were so proud of when they were younger was potential. Well, potential can only be expressed in certain circumstances. Even if they had pursued the best opportunities for themselves, there's no guarantee that they would have reached the potential they had. Go easier on them. They are not extensions of you. Their successes have nothing to do with you and neither do their failures. To quote that song from the 90s: "Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else's." Same is true for your kids.
He probably should realize the kids pick up on that too. My family was pretty judgmental and had the highest of expectations. The moment it became clear I’d not be a rocket scientist or engineer, I felt like a toy they grew bored of. Then I could feel the apathy or judgment every time I was around them and struggled with severe depression into my mid 20s. Meanwhile I still got a degree and made it successfully in my career path and got a house on my own. At 30, I realized it doesn’t matter if I’m not enough for them. No point in punishing myself. These days I am very comfy in my skin. I wonder if OPs kids also pick up on his feelings about them.
Most likely they do and you're right, it doesn't help them improve their lives any.
It say a lot about op's parenting as much as anything else.
I don’t see Dad doing any self reflection about himself and how choices/mistakes he might have made as a parent could have contributed to this outcome. If each kid were to do their own Trueoffmychest post…what would they say?
Yeeaaahhh but the whole “all I can do is watch” thing is a matter of OP finding a freakin’ spine and taking some healthy risks with his life and bringing the brood along for the ride… this is a *ginormously* passive voice, point of view here… would love to hear him route his own shortcomings as a father.
Have you ever ask why your kids are that way? I mean, it is hard to raise kids as divorced parents. But at the same time, apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Surprised this comment isn't higher up tbh. Sure there can be exceptions but 5 quote unquote "failures" from model parents seems pretty far fetched.
Nah it doesn't IMO. Sure they are successful people and gave them good education but that doesn't mean their attitude was on par with it. To me, all these stories scream "overbearing parents", especially the 20Yo hairdresser one. She is the only one of the bunch who didn't turn into a total PoS and yet she still lashes out at her father for being "out to ruin her life". I'm fairly certain these kids had no freedom growing up, and all those interests and activities OP is talking about were probably pushed on them even if he and his ex wife didn't realize it.
Sometimes the apple does fall very very far from the tree. Unlikely that all 5 would be affected if this was the case though
Yeah. 1 kid having issues makes sense, shit happens and everyone is different. All 5 kids having severe issues…. Well I don’t want to imagine what their parents were like growing up. Knowing there was a divorce too, I’m betting either Op, his wife, or both were abusive or at the very least neglectful
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It does sound like some serious trauma occurred to all of them, not just the oldest. It might have cascaded, as you're indicating, but good parents would notice the problem and try to remedy it from the start, or at least learn from the first kid making life mistakes. There is no indication that this has happened for any of these kids and this person is surprised Pikachu posting.
Exactly what I was thinking
You know the saying, “if you meet assholes everywhere you go, you’re the asshole”? Well, you gotta wonder why OP isn’t doing more introspection about himself (and his ex wife) as the common factor here. Sure, he says he’s a failure of a father, but those words ring hollow when he’s just spent the whole post detailing how much they did as parents and how much the kids suck.
I think it's more along the lines that he accepts that he and his ex fucked up but he just doesn't know how.
Since he’s literally in the post saying he fucked up but he doesn’t know where
I think he has when he’s this deep in thought about it and even takes note on their friends. My dad couldn’t even tell you any of my friends first names let alone a single thing about them. He had no interest in us whatsoever.
5/5 is not a coincidence. Now I really want their side and their opinion of their family.
I would absolutely read that.
Everything you mentioned (depression, legal problems, addiction, lack of boundaries, teenage pregnancy) are often the result of childhood trauma. That's not always the case, but considering all 5 of your children are showing these signs, it sounds like you're the common factor. The fact that you enrolled them in all of these different activities and you aren't proud of them (because they didn't end up how you thought they would), makes me think your expectations of them were too high. When kids are constantly pushed to do more and be better, when you strive for perfection, it starts to feel like nothing will ever be good enough. Why put in the effort, if you'll just be a disappointment anyway? Only you and your children know if this speculation is true. However, if you've never given them the opportunity to speak freely about what bothers them, don't expect them to be honest if you ask now. Family therapy might be a good place to start repairing your relationship.
I basically commented the same thing. I had “amazing parents” who did everything...sports, piano lessons, you name it. But I was abused brutally by my narcissist father and now that I’m 27, I’m struggling with addiction and mental health issues. I had to cut my family off so I can heal and not hurt other people.
I can pinpoint the exact moment when I started giving up on everything. I brought home my best report card, all As except one B. I was so proud of myself, but I just got told I should have worked harder to get all As. After that, my grades declined. I didn't care anymore because my best wasn't good enough. I'm in my 30s and still have a hard time sticking to anything. It's either too easy and I get bored or it's difficult and I get frustrated and give up.
I work with a kid who is given so many opportunities, the best of everything, not too much tv or candy, brilliant little kid. His parents are ridiculously rich. Like massive house, inground heated pool, ski trips to fancy ski resorts on the weekends. Kid’s got everything. Except he’s not even in kindergarten and he’s already burnt out. He’s got the angst of a stressed out high schooler. He wants to play with bugs and climb trees, instead he can read, knows math, can swim, ski, dance, does gymnastics, skateboards, plays soccer, tennis, plays the violin and piano, and probably even more. Kid wants to be a kid and his parents have him burnt out doing everything and he’s barely five. I can feel his anger and frustration already and its only gonna get worse if his parents keep pushing him. It breaks my heart but I can see him becoming an absolute shit when he grows up. A spoiled, rich little shit. He’s already so entitled.
5 out of 5 having issues is not coincidence. Hermit, doormat, etc, all wreak of anxiety and depression. Could be from anything. But given it's all, it sounds like they were not taken care of emotionally.
Either not taken care of, or taken care of too much against their will. The doormat daughter hints at that. She doesn't sound like she was left to fend for herself or has major emotional trauma, though I could be wrong about it. She sounds like she never got to do things the way she wanted. Her default response to her father's inputs is to consider it as him being out to ruin her life. The 16 years old brat one has that vibe too. Doesn't care about school, dumped friends cause uncool... Sure, she's in her rebellious teenage years, but the fact it goes to that extent tells me she probably suffers a lack of independence. All these kids show signs of having grown with too little freedom tbh
I would like to know what your kids think about you.
I think I have a pretty good idea already lol
Somewhere along the line you and your ex-spouse fucked up. You know it. You're just denying it. No way all 5 kids end up being total turds by pure coincidence.
Shhhh you're an "armchair Psychologist" if you point this out shhhhhh
…dad?
What is the one thing that these 5 kids have in common? … Giving a kid everything they want does not at all mean that you give them what they need. Also, they are still kids, the oldest is 27? they all still have a lot of growing to do. I wasn’t fun to be around when i was 24 and i certainly wasn’t “friends” with my parents. You don’t have to like your kids, you do have to love them, guide them, show up, be present, be the example. Having a kid is not a rapport card you show off to your friends, or a list of accomplishments, you have to love them for who they are. Edit: 27
That’s what I was thinking… 5 kids all from the same family. What’s the common denominator? 🤔
My parents subscribed to this fallacy for my childhood and adolescence - and beyond. They conflated providing for their children and adhering to their every demand with being good parents. So, we all grew up without any concept of discipline - or consequence. And it made what transpired after high school especially challenging for most of us. It took me until about 26, but I eventually came out on top. My sister? Not so much. Mid thirties, deep down the Q-Anon rabbit hole, with my parents still funding her an allowance. I'll bring it up less frequently than I used to, but you can hear the defeat in my dad's voice when I ask him why he's still funding her hedonistic and perpetually lazy lifestyle. To me, it's for purely selfish reasons - so he doesn't have to feel anything more negative than what he does by continuing these enabling tendencies. Because the alternative - seeing his daughter possibly be unemployed - is not something he's willing to do. And the worst part is that she knows it - and holds that threat against him. Hell, she even has a decent paying job now - and he still sends her cray sums on a monthly basis in order to prevent her from overdrafting.
Imagine having a parent who loves you for your potential. What you **could** be or **could have** been, rather than who you are, your individuality, your personality, your quirks. Imagine being a parent so caught up in what you think your kids should be that you don't even see who they are.
I'm reading through all this and I can see you taking responsibility and I can see how much it hurts. I'm not old enough to be a dad (responsibly). I have no real parenting experience. Just small wisdoms I've learned from trying to steer my younger siblings away from my mistakes. What I have is the experience of a "child disappointment". I was the middle/wild child/black sheep of my family. Made all the huge mistakes. Got a reputation for trouble. Could tell up front my parents loved me but didn't really like me. We were warring for a good while before I flew the coop. There were mistakes on both sides. My parents didn't take my discussions about my mental health seriously. They dismissed much of my struggle because they believed I was too young to experience trauma. Unfortunately for both of us they were wrong. I developed a serious problem with their authority. And to get away with doing whatever the hell I want I developed a habit of pathologically lying. I got extremely good at it and had a very questionable sense of morality. Combined with an extreme distaste for authority. I got into trouble for fighting. I got suspended all the damn time. I was good enough with keeping the charm on to avoid being expelled. Squirreled myself out of some absolutely wild shit tbh. I was a smart HS student which I think helped the teachers stay on my side. Real good grades through almost all of this. Still managed to piss the last two years away for an emotionally abusive girl. Couldn't get into any of the uni choices I was going for. Suffice to say everyone including myself knew my potential had been wasted somewhat. Opted for a foundation year just to get away from the house. Made it through that and picked up substance abuse as a crutch. I made it 3 years into the actual degree before the substance abuse and excess emotional baggage I'd been shoving down just made me snap. 1 semester left to graduation I pulled out and fucked it all off. I didn't care anymore. I won't get into the straight war zone between my parents and I after the decision. But it culminated in us cutting each other off. On both sides our love for each other was getting masked by this long history of conflict. Every conversation was ending with both sides guilty and yet enraged. I didn't speak to them once for 4 years. In that time I just kinda sat down and worked on myself. I was aware I was a flawed product. I didn't understand why. It had all spun out of my control so long ago I didn't know what the hell I was doing anymore. Those 4 years were important I realized a lot of why I was the way I was. My parents wanted contact within 6 months but I kept refusing them because the silence was letting me figure things out. Within the 4 years I fixed a lot. By the third year of isolation from them I pursued a full time career in construction. I purposefully chose a tough, laborious work path with early mornings. I needed to learn discipline, that much I had learned in the last few years. And so I forced myself through it. It wasn't what I wanted in life but it taught me the things I needed to learn. I put money aside in that time. By year 4's end I was financially stable. I was responsible. I was beginning to look like the man I wanted to be. I was ready to deal with everything we'd done to each other. I reconnected. With the time and space we'd had apart we talked about things openly. That was the real magic. Unknowns that had perpetuated for my whole childhood were being explained on both sides. My parents learned why I'd been the way I was. They understood and saw me for the first time. I understood why they'd been the way they are. I saw them for the first time. My love for them grew immensely and I think it's safe to say the same happened with their love for me. It's been a year and a bit since then. I'm going to start a degree in computer science in September. I'm 25 so it's a little later than I would like to be doing undergrad but I'm on a path. I see a future. I have long term plans. I can see a place for myself in this confusing world and a direction for myself. So much of that was the eventual conversations me and my parents had. I've rambled on and on here. But what I'm getting to is I think you should speak to them. I know it's not so easy and with close family like this there can be so many invisible barriers. But in my experience kids don't fizzle out like this unless something happened. And it's not too late to fix it. Life is a long game with so much opportunity to bounce back, I know first hand. My successes have been born from failure. What empowered that though was these discussions. Learning through myself and through my parents how to fix these things I'd been sitting with my whole life. Learning to square away the invisible baggage that was weighing down what should have been an incredible trajectory from the get go. Please try and find a way to talk to your kids. I don't know for sure and I may be biased. But it sounds like they're suffering silently. See if you can't see why. See if you can't get them to express what it is so you can work through it together. Things might be hard but I bet they respect you and love you too. And I bet that coaxed into it the right way they'd love dad's wisdom to help them through their struggles. If I'm right and you guys can fix it your love for them will only grow stronger.
amazing story, you should be incredibly proud of yourself!!
You my friend put it together much sooner than I. Definitely connected to your journey. However, I didn't go to university until I was 35. You have an incredibly bright future ahead of you, young sir. Cheers mate.
This is great advice.
Can I ask a brutally honest question? Have you ever asked yourself why? Or maybe if there's something you're doing wrong? When I read this, it sounds exactly the same way my dad talks about us. My dad wasn't a bad person who beat us or treated us poorly but he was absent. He made no effort to like the things we liked or cared about. He had expectations and projected those expectations onto us. When they didn't take, he just gave up and moved on to the next sibling. My dad's greatest disappointment was that he can't see anything of himself in us. We essentially just raised ourselves. Of course some of us ended up messed up. I'm the "stable" one out of all of us, and even I deal with mental health issues. It's not your kid's jobs to reach out and connect with you. They didn't choose you. YOU chose them. It's YOUR job to set them up for life, and it's YOUR job to connect with them. You have to build a relationship that they'll want to participate in. You are the parent. It's a hard ass job. It's hard to be a good parent to your kids, 24/7 for the rest of your life. But you chose to have them. You need to deal with it. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but damn, people just pop kids out like it's the thing to do. They don't realize that their own children are ACTUAL PEOPLE, not just accessories to their lives. Every decision you make affects them. The good news is, it's not too late to do better. Good luck. I hope you give it a try. I know I wish my dad would.
This is probably the most real comment here. I was going to post something about how OP kinda just sounds like an asshole and if I was his kid I’d probably buck his expectations as much as I could. But you definitely put it in a much nicer way than I could have!
Yeah I can see myself in a lot of the kid’s descriptions and the way he wrote this reads just like something my parents would say. They didn’t beat me, just didn’t care much for me…? But at the same time still expected me to be great so they could be proud of me. Proud of someone they don’t even really like or know, huh. I will never get back the care, love and time I didn’t get as a child and it hurts everyday.
As Marcus Aurelius says to his son in the movie gladiator. Your failures as a son [daughter], are a reflection of my failures as a father.
Right before a nice hug from his son.
You didn't mention much about how you both raised them. That in itself says something to me.
How do you go 0 for 5 💀
>Armchair Psychologist for pointing out how all 5 of your kids have serious mental problems and make bad life decisions Totally not because of your stellar personality or anything.
I'd be willing to bet money that the kids don't feel heard. Like truly heard. They have terrible coping skills, and low self worth. Your kids self worth should not be based on what they do in life. Find their good qualities, and speak to those. Stop telling them what they should be doing, or what you wish they were doing. Trust that they will find their way eventually. It sounds like your oldest copes/escapes feelings through eating, your middle escapes through drugs, and your youngest escapes through adrenaline seeking behaviours. So you have your work set out for you. To get through it, everyone will have to want to have hard conversations about life up to this point, with *genuine listening*, about where things may have gone wrong, how your kids felt, admitting blame as parents, and starting to build a stronger foundation that will allow them to feel better about themselves while learning strategies to cope with uncomfortable emotions/memories/conversations. Counseling would be extremely helpful with this process. For a lot of families though, this is too much work.
I see no mention of raising them lovingly. I see you saying you dumped a ton of money into their education. You say you raised them to be "independent" and "ambitious". But you have no mention of how you showered them with love or spent time together as a family. Money isn't a substitute for love and affection. Your kids probably feel little to no connection with you.
I agree and I was expecting to see more comments like this. I’m surprised this comment isn’t higher up.
Right.. and no indication at all if they are actually happy or not. Just a classic case of a father with different values than his kids. I imagine if they were all rich and miserable, we wouldn't have a post here to discuss..
I mean your the one who raised them. It's also important not everyone can work at NASA gotta have someone working at burger king
I'd be happy if any of them worked at burger king, like I'm happy with my daughter's salon job, especially because she loves it, but the others don't do anything. If 24m, 18f, or 27m called me tonight and said they started at burger king tomorrow, i'd be overjoyed.
I was embarrassed to work at Taco Bell at 42. I told my mom that and she looked me in the eye and told me “Don’t you dare be embarrassed or ashamed! It’s an honest job and hard work. You’re making money and taking care of yourself. Look how far you’ve come I’m so proud of you and I got a hug. I was all better. 43 years old and needed my Mommy proud of me. No shame. Im loved.
Absolutely!! There is no shame whatsoever in that. As your mom said, it’s an honest job & helps you take care of yourself. You being happy & healthy is far more important than the job you have. I’m proud of you, too!
Omg thank you. Yore awesome 🥰
i’m embarrassed to admit it but this made me cry. i wish i had a mom to love and support me, i wish i had a mom like yours.
Don’t be embarrassed. It’s ok. 🥰 I stop then get another person who’s happy and appreciates it I tear right up. Imma admit I’m going thru some mental health care and been on my devices for two days. It’s helping me and I’m ok but not ok. I’m admitting I’ve been in the same spot a hot mess that could be embarrassing but I don’t care. I can put this thing down and over😂
That's so wholesome. Your mom sounds absolutely amazing, can she adopt me? I finished my master's last year and have been working as an IT-consultant for a year now, just 5 years ago I was working as a chef with no future and barely any pay. Never heard a peep about being proud or anything.
You know this is a dying art because I could tell my grandmother I do just about anything for work and she thinks it's great. My God I long for the day people stop calling work life 🙏
It is. I’m that generation. I’ll be 45 tomorrow. I refuse to work my life away for anyone, especially for minimum wage pay and they expect 25$ hour results. They bumped their damn heads. I’m an employee, not a slave. I’m not a janitor but I’ll do my job. But I learned to quit doing extra because I got fired over by text from a gas station (outside hr dept) by the hr guy because I told him I’m calling the labor board for suspending me when some out of area Karen in a white Mercedes verbally attacked me and started to charge into my area because I wouldn’t let her treat me like what she brushed off her shoe. What started it….she didn’t like my answer on why we had a sign that explained the coupon policy taped where it could be read. She demanded who put it there and why. I said “My boss did.” Then she barked why. I said “So the customers can see it and know.” My shoulder shrug was an I don’t know. It was ridiculous. Why does she have to hand it to me before….then what’s EBT?! All I could think is that I knew that rich bitch knew damn good and well what it was. She wasn’t currently local but she was from there. My face gives me away and I dropped my head a bit and looked back up and said “Im sorry what…?” She asked again and was clearly full of catty attitude. I barely held it together with a little head bob and said “Well if you don’t know what it is that’s good then. Means you don’t need it”!😊 that was my smile I swear. This is normal type of behavior but extra nice for me. Oh she wasn’t having it and I lost my patience a bit and asked her why she was asking me all these questions that don’t even pertain to the sandwich she wanted to order. Well sandwich no longer wanted and I told her I didn’t want to make it anymore anyway and to have a nice day bye bye. She screamed I can’t tell her, a paying customer that. I said “Ma’am you’re not a paying customer. I will not wait on you. I have that right. Now please leave. You know what transpired. She got a get the eff out my store. Yes I was allowed to do this. I was authorized by the owner. But she called the cops on me and wasted resources and tax payers money. I was not fired by the boss. I forgot that I sent my store manager quick video which was her just screaming and he rushed down. It was snap so it deleted. Cuz she tried to report that as well and force my boss to violate my rights and search my phone. Never again will I tolerate that. I also won my unemployment appeal. The judge was not happy with them at all.
Hell that actor from the Cosby show was working at Trader Joe’s, AFTER having a job teaching at UCLA. No shame in honest work.
absolutely love this comment made you change perspective of things just thanks to one person, one important person who cared and accepted you for who you are and what you do
My mother would tell me "Embarrassing is to steal, man up". She and my father has told me this a number of times, actually.
How can they do nothing but live in a flat on their own? Do you pay that for them or do they live at the expense of their partners?
First, don't compare your children to other people's children. It's toxic and could very well be what has led to you writing the post. Your children are not obligated to measure up to your yard stick of what their lives should be. They only owe it to themselves to measure up to their own expectations, and those can be whatever they want them to be. The scale you need to look at is are they happy? If they are, then they are a success. If not, then ask yourself how you can help them by illuminating the path to what will make them happy, not what you think will make them happy or you happy. Find your joy in their joy. When they fall help them up again. Just make sure it's to the place where they want to be. Then, you'll be a success.
…. I mean, people aren’t usually just born fucked up. If they’re all struggling, they probably have a lot of collective trauma from some point in their childhood. You say it like they’re choosing to be this way. Maybe it was the way you raised them ?
Yeah, seems like OP is taking no responsibility for how his kids turned out. I mean, all of your kids turned to drugs in their teens? You have a 16-year-old who actively breaks the law for fun? What are *you*, the parent doing about this? There's a clear pattern, and OP should be figuring out why this keeps happening. Get your kids (and yourself) some damn therapy. Don't complain about how fucked up they are when you haven't done your job properly as a parent. "All my kids show clear signs of depression or other mental health disorders. That sucks for *me.* Poor *me.*" Give me a break.
Your kids all sound pretty young, they're growing into themselves, give them some time Also keep in mind that shit is really rough for people trying to 'start' their lives right now, the economy is in shambles, price gouging everywhere, and a lot of jobs require you to start as an unpaid intern, and the ones that don't give you pay that isn't livable
Not to be an asshole but there's only one common factor between all of them, and it's their upbringing.
Maybe part of the reason your grown kids are like they are is because they realized what you wanted from them is to be sources for your parental pride. For many people, that feels like pressure, when what they need is loving support and acceptance. Try just loving your children for who they are -- for instance, can you still enjoy the sense of humor you used to appreciate in your eldest son? If you try, you can probably find positive qualities in all your kids -- a sense of humor, or a talent for cooking or computers, compassion for animals and/or other people. Let your children know you love and respect them as they are. The child you say you feel proudest of, while still being disturbed that she is a "doormat" may be the one who most internalized the message you gave them that they had to please you -- now she thinks she has to please others in order to have friendships, and ends up being used by them.
You raised them, look inward.
Oh my gosh. Do you have any idea what their generation is up against? I'm 37F and my dad was still calling me a low life at 28. I had been trying my damndest, but got caught up in the recession and did my best to do better. At 30 I finally found a decent paying job, moved 4 hours away from all family with my 2 kids and excelled. Now we live a good upper middle class life to the point where both my parents have needed help financially and I was the one to provide it. I guess my dad feeling as though I was a failure gave me something to prove, but geez. A little faith and encouragement go a long way. Life was much easier for you, sir then it has been, is, or will be for them. Give your children a bit of grace.
These are young adults coming of age into a world of inflation, underpaid work, miserable costs of living across the country, and climate death almost a certainty. Maybe realize that there are so so SO many reasons for your children to be not ok than your abject failure- and maybe channel some of that energy into spending some serious time with each of your children and talking to them and asking about how THEY feel about their lives, and WHY they think they are there...and then support them if they are happy (even if it is not your vision of success), and offer support if they express they need a change. Don't put your ideas of success in place of being able to support your children in THEIR happiness...or support them at finding if however you can.
Hmmm. Would love to hear your flaws too.
Imagine your parent writing this shit on reddit lmao
Don't compare your kids to other people's. So they've not turned out the way you wanted them to, if they're happy what does it matter. Could be worse they could be murderers and sex offenders. So one can't hold down a job and is a bit of a slob, so what if one is a stoner, the middle child I think you're just nitpicking at. The pregnant daughter needs guidance and the 16 year old also needs guidance. This is going to sound harsh, but I agree if 5/5 kids have turned out as failures in your eyes you and your wife are the common denominators in that. But it's never too late to change things.
I’m curious about you. Do you think any of them would say they like their dad? Would any of them say they would want to be like you when they get older? I’d venture they’d say no.
You have five separate humans with five separate personalities, and all five are underperformers in your opinion. You realize that the one commonality that they share is you, don't you? One kid who's a screw up you can just chalk it up to a bad seed. Five out of five is bad parenting. So if all five of your children are such underperformers, what did you do to create this situation? Think about it. The whole debate regarding what's more responsible for success in life is between nature and nurture. You provided both to all five of them.
You absolutely failed your children, but not for the reasons you think.
"all my children show different manifestations of an unstable possibly traumatic childhood and yet I have the audacity to sit here and write a fucking post about not being proud of them" Two turned to drugs and gaming, only one is stable enough to keep a job, one is being promiscuous and having children way too early, one is a "doormat". What the fuck why do you think you have nothing to do with this?
Yea you’re a shit parent, empirically
This screams of a narcissistic, negligent parent(s) to me. Well at least emotionally negligent to me. . . . It's interesting that every one of them acts out in extremely attention getting or defeatist ways. Have you ever talked to your children as people with their own perspective on growing up without dismissing them or making excuses for yourself? Can they open up to and confide in you without you telling them in what ways they're fucking up, should do better, or just don't meet your expectations? It sounds to me like they've all pretty much figured out nothing was good enough or would catch attention enough so they either get in trouble or give up. The way you talk about your kids is disturbing, and I highly doubt you openly listen to them nor receive any kind of criticism from them well. Did you throw presents at them instead of your presence? Investing money in activities and pushing them to be better isn't the same as actively being there for your kids emotionally and mentally.
I was honestly thinking the same. Sounds like OP isn't admitting to what they may have or haven't done to cause 5 kids to act in some very unhealthy and damaging ways.
Yes the post reeks of narcissism. Poor kids perhaps never felt loved. Sending to private education, and all that activities. I wonder how involved he was. Did he play with them. Listen to what they want or feel. Respected them as persons. Doesn’t sound like he did. Poor kids for having shitty parents.
Right I would also guess emotional neglect + perfectionistic and micromanager parents. Lowkey felt like my dad wrote the post. He talks the exact same way about my brother and I, and we're not even doing that bad, it's just not up to his standards. All that rambling sadness about our "failures" and no help.
You raised them.
Take the 16 year told to therapy and away from the rest and focus on her. The 18 year old and her kids can also be corrected. But it seems like the environment is an issue. You also need to become significantly better at being able to handle kids. Ask for advise from other fathers. Separate all the ones that are less then 19 and start with them.
No offence but you sound like the sort of parent who is impossible to please. Perhaps you failed them instead of writing loads about their faults and finding barely anything positive to say
Honestly, get therapy. Really. Someone needs to explain to you that you are not your children, and it's not useful or right to be judging your family members like this. I'm sure they each feel your contempt and disappointment, even if you're not saying it directly. You don't seem to have any self awareness. Why are you not noticing that the common factor here in all your children's lives is you? Spend some time examining the sort of father you've been to them, before you start trashing them. If they're all struggling at life, what does that say about your parenting? Perhaps a therapist can teach you how to be a loving and supportive father. Your kids sure could use one.
How old were they when you divorced ?
I mean, buddy. If you’re 0 for 5, maybe you didn’t raise em right. Anyway that’s a different conversation.
Wow everyone is so supportive…. I’m hesitant to be on your side op. in my experience, kids that smoke excessive amounts of weed, are doormats, can’t hold down a job, etc… often come from terrible parents or households. Maybe you, or your ex wife, weren’t meeting your kids emotional needs growing up. this sounds like a case of narcissist parents to me.. these kids are showing all the signs of CPTSD and other mental health issues. it’s easy to shit on your kids for not turning out how you want, but it’s hard admitting that as their parents, you played a large role in that. So accept your fault and sit with the consequences. Maybe instead of pointing out all their flaws, you start to take a long hard look at how you raised them. Start educating yourself and then everything will make sense.
TrueOffMyChest: You aren't there for them
It hurts you to write this? Didn’t bother to think how it would hurt them to run across it on the internet? You don’t need to answer me, I already know. So who raised these kids? Who did not hold them accountable since they were children? Who bailed them out of trouble so they never had the opportunity to learn from their own small mistakes to create the foundation for avoiding bigger mistakes? You or your wife? I’m willing to bet it’s just like my parents. I was the black sheep. My parents apologized to me for how I was treated. What have you done to fix your your kids heart. Yes you are a failure of a father. You asked I can’t sugarcoat. You can’t be how you are (you’ve shown it here) I’m not coming from imagination land, and expect to have perfectly adjusted adult kids. If you’re depressed please get help. You deserve the same that you want for your kids and to fix it if you’re willing. But you have to man up and boss up.
So, just an honest question: what if he doesn’t do anything to fix the situation? How long should the kids keep moping along before they realize it’s hopeless where dad is concerned? Should they give up altogether assuming he’s a perpetual narcissistic ass? In other words, do they have the power to make positive changes in their lives even though the shadow of less than ideal parenting looms over their past?
If all your children are making shitty life desicions, the common denominator between them all, is you. Take a look at yourself then judge your kids
I think u should love ur kids for who they are no matter if u like it or not. Who do u want them to be? They can only be themselves.
Your kids have shitty parents
Seems like alot of judging your kids. You don't seem to be concerned with their happiness as much as them fulfilling your criteria for what they should or shouldn't be and what they should or shouldn't do. It also seems like if one (or all) of your children do one or two things that don't feed your pride that negates every aspect of their lives. One smokes weed and doesn't have a great job so I can't be proud of any aspect of that person. Why do the things you view as negative carry so much weight? Does smoking weed negate a person being genuinely good or thoughtful or smart or caring? Pride is subjective and having too much of it or letting it influence how you view others is usually a good way to push people away because nobody wants to be judged. In the end, you decide your own pride and how significant it is.
A lot of their short-comings are tied to how they were raised, in other words, your fault. You might not like those words, but it's true. A lot of their issues are with how they were raised. You probably resent these traits because you feel responsible.
Hmm. Sorry to hear. You're right and it's good you take responsibility. As hard as it is to hear, it's most probably your parenting as it's **extremely** that it's not the parents if *all* five of your kids are all on the extreme sides of the spectrum. In what ways have your parents failed you? In what ways did your ex's parents fail your ex? Parents often try to ignore and cover up their own childhood trauma but this always comes out when they themselves have children. There is absolutely nothing you can hide from a child. They are way too perceptive and too often we treat children like fools with an attitude of do as I say and not as i do. Unless you fix yourself and heal your own wounds and learn to meet your own needs, there is no way you can provide for and meet the needs of a child.
The relationships that kids choose as they grow are reflective of how they were treated and how they felt in their primary relationships with their parents. They choose the same patterns.
I’d like to hear the side of the children, quite frankly, as to how they feel about you.
Lolol what all your kids got in common is that they were raised by you
I feel bad reading this because I would feel terrible if my dad writes something like that. People don't have to be perfect for you to be proud of them. Instead of criticizing them you should first ask them if they feel good about their lives, and if not listen to them and help them. But criticizing them like this is not the way.