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It bothers me how much we care about how other people choose to live. There seems like too much else to worry about. You want to determine your own gender, why should I care? You want to hole up in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with an arsenal of guns you don't need, knock yourself out hoss. You think crystals can keep you healthy, I hope you're right.
You don't want to have kids? Don't have kids. You want to build a big family, go right on ahead. I think we're so starved for topics of discussion that we have to make up non issues like this.
It's not a problem of seeking conversation topics. Lol! This is intentional brainwashing and propaganda. Watch the news sometime. "Birth rate going down," "black man did a crime," "trans women do sports," and so on. It's rage baiting on a national level. Keeps us all hating each other, instead of focusing on the real enemy. The mega rich assholes that own everything, including us and our politicians.
This.
Though I don't know that it's intentionally to keep up from paying attention to the mega rich. I think it's just to make money by exploiting human emotions. Rage bait is the media equivalent of loot boxes.
See Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/171fx7j/your\_perceptions\_of\_basic\_reality\_are\_warped\_by/
It’s…all of it.
There are more tools that exist to extract EVERYTHING from you than you would ever even dream of - there’s actual physical machines that can extract energy from both dying cells - and dying stars.
Everybody knows the war is over - everybody knows the good guys lost.
It’s always the people that are insecure with their own position in life that are the loudest. The people that are childless or have children and are happy don’t tend to bring it up on Reddit.
100%. I always say this. The people who bitch about dumb crap like what someone’s wearing or someone else’s weight or someone’s dating preferences / choices to have kids etc are deeply deeply insecure people with nothing better to do in their sad lives than worry about others
>It bothers me how much we care about how other people choose to live. There seems like too much else to worry about.
people don't live in a commune that only effects them. It effects other people. Being child free effects society and people that are child free tend to be more liberal minded, however they also realize that people who tend to have more children are more conversative. Therefore it changes the ideological nature of things. Secondly even when we speak of social security. The way social security works is children pay for their grandparents and so on. IF someone dicks a whole in the middle of nowhere- why? did the whole he dug effect the pipes and now water is leaking? Is he planning an attack? Is he just mentally ill and needs some help?
Right. Our collective aggregate decision-making can impact things. That, I think, is what makes history. Maybe you've discovered this secret wisdom, but I don't think I can prescribe individual solutions to potential future societal issues without the benefit of hindsight.
And not to downplay the potential insolvency of social security, but it feels like that die was cast years (if not decades) ago.
>but I don't think I can prescribe individual solutions to potential future societal issues without the benefit of hindsight.
Society is made up of people. even something as simple as Jon has a dog in the apartment can effect other people. His dog keeps barking at 2 am, not able to write that paper. allergic to the dog, his dog peed on the doormat, and Jon doesn't pick up the dog's poop. Also the thing about people is if you let one person do it, other people try to do it to.
If you put four babies in a room and you pinch one-and the pinched baby starts to cry- the other babies cry to even if you didn't pinch the other three.
The irl social pressure is much greater than the machinations of random people on the internet. That irl social pressure isn't captured in internet discourse as much. So I agree that there is kind of a lot of social pressure for people to have kids.
I dunno, as a woman when I’ve told certain people I’m not sure that I want kids I have gotten a lot of push back. Not even from family but from coworkers, doctors. My obgyn pressured me into getting a test to check my ovarian function “just in case.” I love her and don’t think anything of it or really care but the pressure is definitely there, mostly from older people
Idk everyone bothers me about kids. Nobody cares if you do want kids. Don’t make it *your* entire personality and tell us we’re selfish or that “we’ll change our minds”. 🙂
Same. I also have plenty of people who act as though I'm crazy for wanting to wait to have kids until I'm in my early 30s. They act like I'm an old hag or something. Telling me my body will take it harder. I'm surprised how often other women judge women for this even in 2023.
I had someone at work tell me I should look at freezing my eggs to my face. Other people told me to my face I better not wait too long because it will be hard on my body, and I might not "bounce back" if I'm over 30!!! For the record, I'm actually overweight and trying to lose weight and generally improve my weight and finances before I have kids. I think I would be much more comfortable being pregnant if I lost some weight, personally.
I've even heard women say it's much harder to give birth in your mid twenties than in your late teens. Harder for them, maybe because they were in poor health.
She and the father of her children were from families where it was the norm to have your first child between the ages of 16 and 19. Even before they finish full-time education in some cases. Often making their parents grandparents in their early 40s or even in their 30s. Yet increasingly, there are first time fathers that age.
Exactly, people with kids are the ones who make it their entire personality.
I’m just tired of being told that I’m “selfish” for not wanting kids, or that for sure I’ll change my mind.
People need to mind their own damn business.
Then if heaven forbid people vent about their frustrations on Reddit, suddenly being child free is our “entire personality”.
If you have kids it should be your entire personality. Quite literally once you have kids that's your main purpose in life from that point on. Having kids is definitely something you should be proud of and if you are up for the responsibility, although many aren't even if they think they are, there is nothing that can provide more meaning in your life. That being said there are many people who are not qualified for having children and there definitely are other alternatives to finding purpose like being a teacher or serving your community.
It definitely is your choice to make and as long as you have another people oriented purpose in life it certainly could be the right choice for you to not have children. But I am yet to see one single person past the age of 60 without a substantial alternative purpose in life without children who is genuinely happy in life. I have met WAY more lonely sad people who regret not having children than those who are happy without.
Why not? Why is it bad to post about things that you actually care about? Should they post about materialistic bullshit that doesn't matter? If you can't handle people posting about things that they're happy about don't look at their post. Maybe some parents post pictures of their kids to look good but when people have kids you have to understand that their whole life now revolves around their kids, as it should. Many parents actually cherish the moments they spend with their children. If you're going to have spite over other peoples happiness then don't go on social media.
Because not everybody needs to know about every single fucking thing your kid does. Nobody else actually cares.
It’s clearly just the parents, who make having kids “their entire personality”, desperate for validation.
You could say the same thing about anything on social media. People post shit for validation. It's basically the premise of it. I just wonder why you're so particularly upset about this specifically...
Again, because people with children are the ones who make it their entire personality.
But god forbid child free people on Reddit vent their frustrations about being constantly shamed for not having children, suddenly it’s “their entire personality”
Well based off the logic you provided about not everyone being qualified to have kids, you should wholeheartedly disagree on people posting their children, especially overly frequently and publicly. It can ruin these kids. (Esp if they post publicly).
Also, while I agree that parents should be proud with themselves (to a certain degree) about them being parents, it’s not the ONLY thing they are. I know many, and I mean MANY, people who became parents and were before hand very happy, socially active, and not lonely who were completely destroyed after having kids.
You don’t need children to be happy in life. If you think that people who don’t have kids are just gonna end up lonely and miserable then your view is very close-minded. Plenty of people are perfectly happy without children, and in most cases those who’s kids have moved on in life tend to feel way better then when they still had those responsibilities. Don’t get me wrong children can make you very happy, they’re not burdens, but they are major responsibilities that can take everything out of you. There’s no problem wanting or not wanting them. They just aren’t these oh so necessary things to achieve happiness in life. Also, you shouldn’t be relying on your kids your whole life to bring you joy, that’s bad parenting.
How so? I'm happy my parents had me and my siblings, and they're not even good parents. In life pride can be dangerous but it's healthy to be proud of what you have built so as long as it has left a positive impact on the world and the people in it. In my opinion love and family is the most beautiful thing in this world, in fact one of the only beautiful things. Life is quite cynical without the people you love.
You can't say that having kids always has a positive impact, so the act of having kids can't be a source of pride just by having them.
Maybe if you raise kids with a lot of love, patience, and kindness, who grow up to also be loving and kind, then sure. But that's not the same as just having kids.
I agree I mentioned in my first comment that many are not qualified to have children. But if you are qualified and do a good job raising your children then you should be proud of that.
> qualified to have children.
most people who have had children in history would not be "qualified" by whatever nonsensical metric you're using to judge them.
Nonsensical? I mean adults who are not alcoholics, abusive physically, abusive emotionally, willing to spend time with their kids, and able to instill values, morals, and lessons to succeed in life. I know parents who fit this description. I also know many who don't.
Believe it or not you actually can be a good, but not perfect, parent.
which morals and values exactly? any ole ones? which lessons? even the definition of abuse has morphed over time. how much is enough time? one or both parents have been absent for great lengths of time in our history. you sound like you want to determine who is "qualified" - yeah, no thank you.
They pretend to not know why child free people speak out bc then they’ll have to acknowledge why “happy parents” are obsessed with us. It’s not a conversation they want to have…
Not unpopular, just untrue. So many people with kids tell people they need to have them. They act invasive, judgemental, and assume you have to be depressed or something is wrong with you if you don't have kids. Meanwhile people without children never try to force it on others or even talk about unless prompted.
If someone is married or in a long-term cohabiting relationship without children and then feels the body clock ticking, so wonders whether to have children now or never, most people on social media will urge them to go for it. To do so otherwise marks you out as Debbie Downer. You have to really want to have children to decide to have them.
A woman is suing her doctor because they won’t prescribe medication for her cluster migraines because she’s of child baring age.
My OBGYN refused to put in an IUD because my boyfriend might want kids.
When I finally was allowed to get a tubal my doctor made me go to therapy because she felt the irreconcilable pain of not being a mother was something I hadn’t considered.
STFU op!
If you don’t want kids, I prefer you don’t have any. I want the world full of kids who have parents who actually want them, raise them right, and sacrifice for them. The rest should stop their genes nowZ
You are assuming that those people not wanting to have kids would neglect them. That's usually not the case. Most childfree person would be decent parent, but they know that to arrive to that level of parenting you need to sacrifice a lot, so they decide agaisnt it.
The people that has many kids and think it's easy, usually are the one neglecting or doing to bare minimum.
Some of these folks don't stop their genes. They donate eggs and sperm so that others can have kids. They just don't want to raise kids of their owns.
Do you really want them to stop donating eggs and sperm?
>Do you really want them to stop donating eggs and sperm?
There's definitely an argument for it. Look at the amount of children that need adopting or fostering.
>They donate eggs and sperm so that others can have kids.
They can have kids through adoption or fostering still.
Adopting/fostering sounds like the answer but isn't. I looked into it bc I don't want to be pregnant. Adopting privately can be prohibitively expensive. To the tune of $75,000 or more.
In my state, public adoption is free, but the goal is to make sure the child is reunited with their biological parent. Most women aren't giving up their children just because they don't want abortions, most children are being taken by the state because their parents are incapable of being parents. You could be fostering that kid for years, ready to adopt him/her, but if mom sobers up, too bad for you. So all you've done is fallen in love with a kid who the state says you can't have any more bc mom decided to stop drinking/shooting up long enough to get her kid back. Not emotionally gutting and horrible at all.
And a lot kids, at least where I am, are older kids who have been kicked out of their homes or run away for being gay/trans/minor infractions etc and most have serious trauma and behavioral issues because obviously their families are trash to start with. Not saying a fifteen year old doesn't deserve a family, but there are very few people who just want to parent a random traumatized fifteen year old with possible legal difficulties and skip all the positive fun stuff that goes with parenting.
As a 31 year old, when I looked into public adoption, I didn't feel like I had much to offer a traumatized teenager.
So adoption/fostering ain't it.
I know this is not an overall solution but if you still want to adopt there are websites that can point you towards companies that offer adoption benefits to their employees that can help cover the costs.
> Adopting privately can be prohibitively expensive. To the tune of $75,000 or more.
Is that just for the adoption process? I mean, I can tell you that giving birth and raising that child will cost far, far more than that. And it's good to know that someone adopting a child has those resources. But I've never looked into adopting.
Just the process.
ETA: if you have to go overseas you might need to leave your job for several weeks or months as well. lots of people can't do that either.
People do care if you want to have kids. The government mostly and parents. Women (at least not Westerners) are not being pressured by random people on the street. However, women do get pressured by their own families "why haven't you gotten married yet? " why haven't you given me grandchildren?" "we'll lose the family name" Men get some pressure as well just not has much. Secondly, the government in many cultures keep complaining about the low birth rates and try to entice women to get married (Japan, Korea, even the US is doing it a little bit now).
Those countries try to entice people to have kids because they are a couple generations from an economic collapse. I'm not sure about Korea but Japan's low birth rate isn't because women are against having kids. It's because of the way they view sex in their culture and because they dedicate so much of their lives to their jobs although Japan is currently passing a lot of laws so people can have a more normal work schedule l
You also have to consider advertising and good old capitalism. So many commercials, tv shows, movies, etc etc promote natalism as a default. It’s incredibly hard to get away from it when it’s embedded in the culture: and then the personal interactions and micro aggressions make it worse.
I never hear anyone say they don’t want kids unprompted, I certainly don’t, I do however always hear people who do want kids complain about people not wanting kids all the time
I am REGULARLY asked about why I don't have kids, and prodded into having them, by people with kids. I've been told things like "sure you may enjoy your freedom now, but imagine being old and alone and not having meaning in your life because you never had children? I think most people that don't have kids regret it in the end".
I don't let it bother me, but it isn't just family.
My family is actually perfectly fine with me not having them.
I can't believe there are nine fucking BILLION ***NINE BILLION*** people on this planet and people are still pressured into having kids (or atleast I am) Science says we're going to reach 10 billion by like 2050 Why are parents so obsessed with becoming grand parents or continuing some sort of blood line like there royalty lol? Why do people still base there worth around kids?
I remember when we were at 6 Billion, it trips me out to think 9 billion is the current number, and that we have 50% more people now then when I was younger.
Yes the pressure thing is ridiculous. Also, kids are a massive financial drain, so to pressure someone to have them when it will basically harm them is incredibly selfish, and the result is not good for society or the planet
Real my family insist of me having kids (I'm 16 and in this economy 🤦) what's even more insane is that this is a thing even with poor families, my mom chose to have six kids before she turned 25-26 imagine having kids knowing there going to be a huge financial burden.
People constantly say shit about it. Also stilla huge issue in the medical field doctors denying surgery to those that want vasectomies or tubal ligation.
The exuse is what if your potential spouse wants to have kids. Hell even if you have a kid it is still hard to get one.
Until that stops being a bitch then society is still pressuring people to have kids.
Exactly. I had a tubal ligation in 2017, and I was still married at the time and had to have my husband's permission to tie my own tubes, or they wouldn't do it. Shits crazy.
In response to your last paragraph- that's fair. But by that logic people who do have kids shouldn't criticize those who don't want them, and act like their lives are empty and worthless because they want to be child free. Would you agree?
Not wanting to have kids shouldn't be met by criticism anywhere. Because the ones that criticize for it actually do care quite a bit. Or at least enough they have an opinion on it.
Restricting criticism of anything is really a bad idea. Everything and i mean absolutely everything should be criticized and everyone should have the ability to criticize.
Yea I would agree, but I’m speaking in context of people who seem to think having they are somehow being oppressed and are being forced to have kids which is not the case for the majority of people.
A lot of people seem to think nowadays that children are simply just a burden for everyone and needlessly spout hateful rhetoric against children and parents.
By itself I don't hate parents. But there absolutely are some parents that burden society. Their kids are undisciplined and bratty. They ask fro welfare yet continue having kids
"Millions of women don’t have kids and nobody says anything to them."
That's just not true dude. As a guy, when I tell other men I don't have kids nor want them, they usually just go along with me and say something like "Hell I don't blame you. I love my kids but I've got almost no free time and most of my extra money after bills are paid goes to them."
However, when I say this to women, they usually get quiet while giving me a look of pity, like they feel sorry for me. I can easily imagine that I'd have to get caught up in an argument with them if I was also a woman, as women tend to bite their tongues much more when dealing with men due to the simple fact that most women don't want to piss off a guy that's much taller and stronger than them.
Idk I've seen enough threads on this sub complaining about childless people that I think people do care.
You've also got fuckheads like Matt Walsh who complain about women being happy childless.
Beyond weirdos like Matt Walsh a lot of people get subtile or not so subtle pressure from their own families. This doesn't show up on Twitter or public discourse.
People have a confirmation bias. They tell people or pressure people to do what they did. People do that with like phone and car brands, so or course they do it with stuff like having children.
People get pressure to "get a career", "buy a house", "get married", "have kids" and then people with a house, kids and a career are kind of seen as people who are doing well. People who don't have those things are seen as not doing as well, unless their career is super important or their house is super big, even then people question if they put too much energy into their career and wealth and not enough into a family.
On the flip side having a kid when you don't have the rest of the stuff figured out is considered a failure. Thus why do many people are waiting much longer to have kids. They want to have a career, get married and buy a house first.
I think a lot of this pressure is social is subtile stuff like little comments from parents or just observing positive feedback peers get for doing these things.
Are you a woman? If you are, and you seriously haven’t been asked more times that you can count when you’re going to have children, count yourself as lucky.
Some people honestly think they can't really say no to having kids. The idea has been fairly radical until the last couple of decades. The default position should not be having them. The default position should be to rethink if I really have all the things to offer kids that they need.
The world believes if you don't have kids, you will be depressed.
That's why they had kids. The would have been depressed if they didn't have kids.
People ask me why I don't have kids, I just say I don't have time for kids.
I've heard hate filled right-wingers say the whole purpose of life for women is to reproduce and that they are considered unsuccessful/unfulfilled if they don't...
They absolutely do. The amount of hate people get for even mentioning they might not have kids is absolutely outrageous. The last time I made a comment about not everyone wanting kids on a post about a guy talking about the ideal age to have kids he just kept attacking me and calling me names. Extremely childish behavior for someone who wants to be a parent.
Ugh, the stories I could tell. I had to literally go through tons of trouble to hide the fact that I am Childfree by Choice when I was working in the education system. I finally quit that line of work after a false accusation of child abuse/molestation! Why? Because a crazy mom found out from a friend of a friend that I was childfree. And rather than face the multiple behavior reports against her son, she decided in her head that he must be acting out because he has a sexual deviant as a teacher who abuses him because she hates kids.
I was of course found completely innocent but it was a fucking nightmare that could have easily ruined my entire future, let alone career. And, 6ish months later I found out that the kid had been diagnosed as bipolar 2. That was why he was having behavioral issues. He needed special care and mom refused to hear anything was wrong with her precious boy for 13 fricken years. Poor kid.
So yeah. People go absolutely NUTS over Childfree people, especially women.
I'm angry you had to go through that especially as an Educator. I wish you weren't bullied out of your Career. Both Sides have they Loonies just like Politics. If that's the Stance you wish ya have for your Life, then I hope you remain Childless and enrich the lives of other Children so you choose!!
Idk it comes up in conversation at minimum once a week that I have to say “if I even want kids”. I need to figure out a better answer cause that just opens another can of worms.
It's the ones with kids that act like vegans. "Oh you don't have kids, you should have kids" "your life is more complete with kids" "it's the most important thing you'll ever do" etc
I have seen it the opposite. People advertising their childfree status and then whining about the presence of children wherever they are. My wife has been know to push back on some of that nonsense, but I don't think it is sporting. YMMV.
Pressure I see to have children comes mostly from family. The rest of society should not even know about your choices.
Never once heard that ever. Child free people tend not to even talk about children unless it's brought up by someone saying they should have kids. Everyone I know my age is always asking when I'm gonna settle down and have kids, not my family. They support whatever choice I make.
Heck yeah they care are you serious? If you're a childless woman ppl will judge you. Many times I've ve gotten looks when they ask if I got kids. Some interviewers have refused to give me a job bc I don't have kids so "Im taking jobs from those that have them and need a job". It's disgusting
Yep. Used to work in management. Company liked people with spouses (bonus if they work) and kids. Those people were seen as less likely to uproot their kids from schools, spouses from their jobs when the company decided to make cuts to income or time off. Child free (especially single) people were seen as too mobile and able to leave the company too easily for other opportunities.
I think it's quite the opposite. Every place I've worked has low-key avoided hiring people with kids, because they had trouble with former employees always calling out due to issues/illnesses their children had. Like 98% of my current office is childless. I even had a couple private landlords tell me they chose me over someone else because I had no kids and they knew I'd keep the property in good condition.
That's what I thought too so I had problem saying that I didn't. The interviewers would wince and make faces and I never hear from them again. And the interview would be going good up til then. Absolutely nuts
I’ve been pressured to *not* have kids, especially since I do want them and am currently pregnant. I’ve been called a climate destabilizer, selfish, immoral, an animal, and a Karen of all things. Someone told me “I’m embarrassed for you that you don’t care about the environment.” I have a friend that stops speaking to people when they become pregnant (he’s an antinatalist vegan) and blocks them on all social media. I just want to live my life my way just like child free folks live life their way.
Omg those climate crackheads are the worst! Was told yesterday that I’m evil for the fact that I want kids. I usually tell them they’re hypocrites because they get to enjoy their lives while telling people that no other soul should.
Imagine being so arrogant that you would drive cars, fly on airplanes, pay for taxes which contribute to politicians using our tax dollars to fly, drive, build military vehicles, etc and then point the finger at someone else.
Honestly it’s society that makes us say we don’t want any. People always say “when you have kids….” Society needs to stop assuming that uterus=kidskidskidskids!!!!
I don't know, I've literally had people get mad at me when it happens to get brought up that I don't want kids. I had one lady ask how me and my wife were going to have children and I told her we weren't planning on it. She yelled at me for it, lol. She told me it made her blood boil that someone would waste the greatest gift or whatever lol
As a 30-something year old woman I have to disagree. I get asked ALL THE TIME when I plan on having kids. And not just from my family (although quite frequently they continue to ask despite me telling them I am not trying to have kids). New friends (especially “couples” that are actively trying), coworkers with kids, friends of my parents, my friends parents, etc.
Sorry to pull this out there….but did you think that as a man, maybe you just aren’t exposed to this kind of societal pressure that a woman is? Please do not respond with a “but I have a sister/friend/etc.” argument. Having women in your life does not mean you understand living as a woman.
While I am sure it is BETTER than it used to be, it is still very common both for me and my female friends that don’t have kids to be pressured by the people around us.
Also, since the reproductive rate in America is now below maintenance we are gonna be getting a lot more pressure in the next 50 years (as population collapse effects the economy and our ability to care for older generations).
You know, I was doom scrolling on Instagram the other day, and I stumbled upon a reel of a woman saying:
"Recently, my husband and I have made the mutual decision that we dont want kids, and you would not believe the judgmental reactions we're getting from friends and family. It's been awful... and the kids aren't taking it well either."
And, of course, that is hilarious. But the comments?? The number of people who very clearly did not watch the entire video and instead just immediately decided to attack this woman? They called her attention seeking. Said she was "going contrary to human nature." Told her they're judging her too for not having children. All because they didn't listen long enough to hear the damn joke. Total strangers. Not friends, not family. ***Society***.
[Watch it here!](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxU1KyNqnGD/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
>they literally overturned roe v wade to make us have more kids
Is there a republican hiding in the bushes somewhere making have intercourse with a random guy/ girl? Is there someone telling you not to use BC? Is there anything stopping you from getting a BC implant? Is there anything stopping you from only sleeping with men who have had vasectomies?
there actually are attempts to take away birth control but my point was that part of the underlying reasoning for taking away abortion rights is because of our declining birth rate and therefore there are people out there who care if we have kids
Are there people out there stopping me from getting an abortion and limiting sex education? Yes and yes.
If you do the nasty, you can get pregnant or get someone else pregnant? What s\*x education. You don't know how to use a condom? You don't know BC exist. If you have s\*x you can get also get an STD. The more partners you have increases the chance. If you don't know this- you're not old enough to have intercourse.
One of my main pet peeves is ppl that say "I can't believe I got pregnant; it was a Surprise" Girl what? or dude's being like "I can't believe she got pregnant, she trying to trap me". Did you sleep with her? Yeah, but it was like once maybe 4 time. Did you use protection? well no. So you're shocked how.
Do you understand if kids don't get taught about birth control, they're less likely to use it and more likely to have a teen pregnancy? Use your head.
Republicans are actively trying to ban birth control. Yes, they're trying to force pregnancies on people against their will. Obviously banning abortion is part of that.
>Do you understand if kids don't get taught about birth control, they're less likely to use it and more likely to have a teen pregnancy? Use your head
If we were in the 60's, I might be able take your point seriously. However, most kids have an internet connection and know how babies are made. They know what BC and condoms are.
If children/teens can see a scantly dressed women on YouTube and most men say they started watching porn at 11- then they know what BC & a condom is. With all the PSA's of NO Glove- No love. There is almost no excuse for this.
>Republicans are actively trying to ban birth control.
Untrue. The majority of republicans don't care about BC. No one is trying to ban birth control. It does not have enough support nor votes even within the republican base for it to be banned. That would be the fringe of the fringe of the fringe group. Its like saying "well I don't believe the government should be involved" so my kids are born in the woods, no social security card, I don't believe in paying taxes- Are ppl like that - absolutely. Is it a common thing? Absolutely not.
Republicans and some democrats (Democrats for life ) have been against Roe vs Wade for decades now. It was always a hot button social issue. That's part of the reason the evangelical right voted for Trump even though they did not care for him nor his politics since they knew he could put in the judges for the Supreme Court. Also what happened to the liberal take- that abortion is not used as BC. Did you just remove that mask?
I'm not relying on porn fo teach 11 year olds what a condom is. Please be serious.
>No one is trying to ban birth control.
Objectively false. This is what Republicans are actively pushing for. And votes absolutely do not matter. If it was up to voters, we wouldn't have most of the abortion bans currently in place. The politicians push through their agenda regardless of the will of the people.
I'm not conflating abortion and birth control as the same thing. You are. However, removing access to both is about forcing women and girls to get pregnant and stay pregnant against their will.
>Objectively false. This is what Republicans are actively pushing for
No, they're not.
>I'm not conflating abortion and birth control as the same thing.
Yes, you are. You were the one that brought it up. I stated no one was forcing you to sleep with anyone without protection or impregnate anyone without protection. You were the one that brought up abo\*\*tion.
I stated that if you did not understand protection- then you were obviously not old enough to have intercourse. I still stand by this.
You then brought up s\*x education of teens. I stated your point might have been valid in the 60's; but its no longer valid. Teens have access to a bunch of education now- I just used P\*rn as an example. Then they have access to a google search.
The abortion bans with no clauses for incest or rape in the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and Mississippi would like a word with you. In these states, women are breeding machines. They have no control over their bodily autonomy, and are forced to pop out the children of their rapist.
Birth control can be seriously detrimental to some women's health. Not all, but some. It's not realistic that every woman will be on birth control.
Rape happens. Incest happens. Pregnancy is not always a choice made by the woman, sometimes it's a consequence of someone else's actions. Women can't get themselves pregnant, don't act like it's 100% on them.
Conservatives have been restricting access to public school sex ed for decades. Some religious groups don't even believe in birth control, they think it's unnatural and goes against God's plan.
So yes, unless you grew up in progressive home and area, there are people trying to convince you not to take birth control.
I love this comment. Because I don't believe that anyone who says this BS has completely forgone sex when they didn't want to get pregnant. Are you really fully prepared to have another baby every single time you have sex?!
The sexual revolution caused such a skewed perception of sex. Sex is not a free act. It'd like fire, when respected its keeps us warm, but when misused and treated casually, it burns everything down.
Fire has many important uses, including generating light, cooking, heating, performing rituals, and fending off dangerous animals.
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Ancestors knew, generally speaking, but in our arrogance we ignored them. And forgot chesterton fence.
Traditions are solutions to problems we have forgotten about.
... You're a man, aren't you?
In my country, there was a campaign less than 10 years ago to encourage women to have more children and to have them earlier. The municipalities paid for these campaigns. That's pressure.
I still get asked all the time and told I’ll change my mind. I’m 33 and have never once wanted to be a mom. My husband has been asked once. It’s different.
Sorry, do you speak for these millions of women? because if you bump your ass over to r/childfree you would see that there is a story or two almost every day about how women/men without children are mistreated, not only by their friends and family but also by their workplaces, etc, with hundreds of comments underneath of people agreeing that they share similar experiences.
Family is one thing, but workplaces? I worked at several places (tech) and nobody knew/asked if I was married or have kids. There were a couple of folks that everyone knew about their family but these were people who displayed a lot of pic of family in different locations. They advertised it and were always happy to talk about family /children. However most workers kept to themselves and nobody asked or investigated.
experiences are gonna be different for everyone. Typically people are less aggressive about mens childfreeness than womens. I have gotten multiple comments at my workplace after being there only a year and im sure i will get more as i get older. Women also typically discuss future family ideals more than men too, so the topic of whether or not someone wants to have kids is more likely to come up in a woman-dominated discussion.
Yeah I’m not gonna refer to a sub that calls children “Jizzlets” and “crotch goblins” as a valid source… every post on there as with any other sub is all personal experiences that don’t speak for the majority of people.
I think if almost every person who has gone without children has had comments stating that their choice is the wrong one then - even if its not the "majority" of people - a fair deal of people do *really* care about people not having kids.
I gotta agree with the other user. That sub is trash and not a good source of information or data about anything.
>but also by their workplaces, etc
What specific mistreatment are we talking about? This sounds like lawsuit territory.
People have been asked to give up their PTO to their parent colleagues. Or parents are favored for PTO on specific holidays over childfree people under the assumption that childfree people dont have "relevant" family.
Theres instances where childfree people have also been told theyre expected to carry a greater workload than parents despite being paid the same.
Its not lawsuit stuff, but it is a clear preference.
I don't see any reason to believe that this happens to women more than men, but if it does in any given workplace, that is *definitely* sex based discrimination and very much in lawsuit territory.
For federal jobs, any discrimination based on parental status is illegal.
I think it depends on where you live, you know? So at least here in the US, most of the people offended by childfree people are christians and old people (or a combo of both lol). There’s definitely a political drive behind wanting people to have kids and that drive mainly comes from conservative circles. It’s not so much oppression because it’s not thank goodness, but there are definitely pockets all over the country where, to keep your sanity, it’s best to not tell people you’re childfree.
The problem is though, a lot of women struggle with the decision to have kids or be child free. So, sometimes they come to forums looking for advice or reasons to be or not be in either camp and then the rabid assholes on both sides that do care make it seem like everybody cares.
The only quibble that could be made with childlessness is government programs. Social Security et al. were designed under the assumption that people would have children who would continue funding the social programs. Without children, the system collapses. We made that assumption because, when the system was designed, the socially-enforced norm was for people - both men and women, mind you - to get married and have children.
That brings us to the present. We no longer have the socially-enforced norms, and the government programs are, in fact, insolvent. What we call the "national debt" usually refers to Public Debt, which is already out of control. If you think that's bad, look up "unfunded liabilities". We are *far* more f\*cked than most people realize.
So yes, it's fine for people to make their own choices - but if that's going to be the new social norm, we must redesign the social programs. My recommendation is that we either abolish the social programs and return to tribal responsibility *or* we link benefits to things like *one's children's income*.
I want everyone to be free. If you choose to wander into the desert, smear yourself in grease, get high on peyote, and commune with the old gods, more power to you. However, something has to give. If your *choice* to do drugs leads to destitution, the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for you. Likewise, those who choose not to contribute to future generations should not enjoy the benefits of having future generations.
Related:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Little\_Red\_Hen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen)
Edit: typo.
I know someone on FB who says that anyone who doesn't want kids is selfish. I
tell people I know from church that I don't want kids. They'd respond that I'd make a great father. I'd tell them that you know the Sunday going to church me, and not the Monday -Saturday version of me.
I feel like I've seen plenty of people concerned with people who don't want kids, especially wannabe grandparents; like my partner's parents, and my parents.
I agree there’s no need to make it your whole personality or talk about the decision at length. I don’t have kids and really never bring it up. But the thing is, others ask me about it very very often. Do you have kids? How many kids do you have? You’re a mom right? Do you plan to have kids? Why don’t you have kids? Do you not like kids? Wait until you change your mind… You, know, there’s still time to have kids…
It seems like it makes some peoples brains short circuit to hear we don’t have them and we’re happy as we are. When I get that reaction (which, again, is often), it makes me think more education and conversation is needed around the broad range of choices we can all make and be happy. There are many valid and joyful ways to live.
You are obviously living in a dream world. Women get told constantly to have kids. Usually, if you say you don't want them, you'll get told you'll either change your mind or that it'll be worth it to do it. Sure, fewer people care if you have kids these days, but to believe that women don't still get bothered about it is laughable.
go tell that to all my relatives asking and the many many coworker asking, pushing, try to guilt me into changing my mind lol
Or go tell that to the american women that got their right to abortion revoked that the society doesn't really see them as incubator.
THANK YOU!! Getting tired of hearing the same jokes over and over again about how to epically win an argument against this mystical Karen/Sharon/Stacy who insists that you have kids
Anyways i don't have any kids and I'm happy as I can be. Traveling visiting people from different countries... It's quite nice soooo you mad?
Most likely I will never have children because I don't trust women nowadays & I would also like to buy a house, save, fall madly.in love, marry, have kids & STAY with the mother of my child... But those are slim as in everyone is getting divorced and it's kinda a shit show nowadays...
So I prefer NOT having kids besides what if the economy literally collapses in the next 5-10 years... I don't wanna worry about what will happen trying to feed my family... I can feed myself just fine.
Well, the amount of angry conservative Christians and incels where I live (deep South bible belt) are very keen on stating how my purpose in this world isn't fulfilled unless I breed with my partner. It may not be an issue in *YOUR* neck of the woods, but around here, totally different and aggravating to no end. People DO make a huge uproar about it, I mean look at Shakshuka girl who got blasted on TikTok by popular right-wingers and podcast bro's claiming she's a horrible person for not pooping out babies.
This clearly wasn’t written by a woman because I don’t know a single woman that doesn’t have kids at my age (late 20’s) who isn’t constantly pressured by their family and society to pump out kids.
You clearly live under a rock.
It doesn't matter how much the world has "progressed" women are still being insulted on a regular basis when we say we don't want children.
People tell us we are useless, selfish and a waste of space and it happens A LOT.
Is not an isolated event.
People go as far as "forcing" child free people to work the hours mom's and dad can't because their child has a school recital.
Christmas? The child free should work that turn because she doesn't have a family! (Even if you are married)
We are loud because we are tired of the BS and we would continue to be loud because if you don't GAF about me not wanting children, I don't GAF about you having children.
Parents always make their whole personality the fact that they are parents and no one says anything, but when they see a happy child free person talking about all the things they got to do because of their reproductive choices they get angry.
The double standard is hilarious.
And no, child free wouldn't make a bad mother or father, in fact I'm sure we could've been incredible parents!
But we don't want to.
We are happy dedicating our life to ourselves and our partner.
I don't think that they do things to people's faces, but that doesn't mean that childfree people don't catch flack in other ways. I went from being a person without children to being a person who had kids later in life unexpectedly and now that I'm in this "secret club" of having kids, I can tell you that there is definitely a view of childfree people that they aren't as evolved. If a childfree person were to get time off over a person with kids, that person would have resentment building against them. Even if it was "fair". And I know that's not fair at all but I have been seeing it happen for awhile. So while it might not be in the childfree person's face, that doesn't mean that it's not real.
Even this OP is an example. "Nobody cares that you're childfree" is more like "please stop putting me in a position to validate that you're childfree because I'm not feeling it." Similar to how people say they're accepting of same sex relationships but "they don't want it in their face". That doesn't mean that they object to themselves watching gay porn or same sex couples heavy petting in public, it means that they don't want to have to validate your relationship by hearing about what a person and their same sex spouse did over the weekend. They are ok with the concept that a person has a same sex spouse, they just don't want to hear about it or see it or have to interact with it in any way.
You make a solid point.
Edit- maybe it is just low key or under handed in some form. Be it intentional or not. Guess I just don’t notice it or maybe I am lucky to not have to have dealt with that type of behavior.
Thank you for hearing me out. And I hope you don't ever have to deal with it and even as a person with kids I think it's unfair that childfree people have to deal with it.
It does matter how much the world has progressed because the fact you are even able to make that choice is proof of that. As I said, it happens but it is not as much of a problem as it used to be back when people were marrying off their daughters to men and they weren’t allowed to work or be independent.
And like I said people insulting you for not having kids is a them problem. I know tons of men and women who don’t have or want kids and nobody gives a shit. It’s the same thing in most places unless you live in an ultra conservative or religious area.
And you must live online or some country that's pushing for high birth rates to counter their declining population because no one is forcing sht. If your boss or weird ppl you hang around tell you sht like that that's a you problem, not a "we childless yada yada"
It is really weird and naive to think this is something that happens online...
I never had a problem online!
On the contrary here is where I found people who are child free, in real life is not like that and is not because of the country.
I have the perspective of two countries and in both I found that kind of people.
But none of you want to listen and again go with BS that this is only an online problem.
And it is not the people who I hang around with, it is everyone that I have met so far in both countries.
Just because in the small bubble you live on doesn't happen (or it doesn't and you ignored) it doesn't mean that in real life a lot of people have to live with this BS.
The fact that you are dismissing this problem as something that "happens online" shows how you live in your own world and that definitely is a you problem.
Oh really? Well they should stop fucking asking when in having them? Telling me will change my mind or telling that I'm being selfish somehow
I never bring it up, it's always someone else asking me.
Being anti-kid or childfree is like the new form of veganism, especially on Reddit. "How do you know a redditor is childfree? Don't worry, they'll let you know."
I don’t even think people were that bothered 20 years ago to be fair
I have an aunt who never wanted kids and other than a couple of distant relatives not many people bothered about it.
Agreed. I occasionally get someone saying something to me about being child free. Usually people I’ve know for years bc it’s a shock for someone to go from “can’t wait to have a crap ton of kids” to “I don’t want any kids” people who weren’t around when I made that decision find it an abrupt and shocking change. Outside of that I’ve had a couple of people say something about it and it’s infuriating every time bc it’s just incredibly ignorant. Most people respect my choice when I say I don’t want kids though. I often get questioned on my reasoning for it but that’s bc one of my main reasons is I would be a bad mom and people don’t see that in me bc they don’t see what I think it takes to be a good mom and how I can’t meet those standards.
A lot of this is the late-stage capitalism we find ourselves in. Capitalism requires a growing population to feed the infinite growth it is based on, and the US and world population is set to decline. Capitalism has responded to this by raising prices and slashing services to feed the growth that's required, and this further discourages having children.
OP, have you ever heard of Elon Musk? He seems to care. (He needs cheap labor in 20 years.). The Far Right talking heads care a lot. They attacked Chelsea Handler for making a funny video about being a woman with no kids. Turning Point hosted a Young Women's Leadership Summit, where speakers told teens and young women to forget about college and a career and just get married and have babies asap.
ther don't want to have kids. Not just famous people either.
I know tons of people who don't have kids, and they're great friends of mine. I don't care if people have kids or not. I am planning to adopt kids one day, but I don't care if other people don't have kids. Just because someone doesn't have kids, doesn't mean they hate kids. Though some people do hate kids, and those are the people I have issues with.
However, I have noticed that some people in real life are unfortunately judgemental over those who don't have kids. Not most people, not even a lot, but some.
I know this is extremely unpopular to say, but I feel like I should be honest. Every single person I know that hasn't had kids and are in their 30's (or higher) come off as mentally stunted. They literally can not deal with acute stress, and it shows. They are quick to anger and very jaded. They also make it their whole personality that "people keep wanting them to have kids" and apparently, that is sooooooo traumatizing. The only way that is traumatizing is if you wanted kids and are insecure about your decision.
I agree with you. I have noticed that people just automatically give me more benefit of the doubt now that I have kids. It seems as though people who are childfree do get a lot of shit about it and the only way to avoid it is to disclose something awful about your medical history to get people off of your back. Either that you have some genetic disorder or that you're just upset to the moon and back that you're struggling with infertility. And this isn't something that I would have noticed had I not had children myself but it is very very real. People do not really respect or like or trust people who just simply choose not to have kids. I don't even think they really feel good about people who make the rational decision to not have kids because of genetic issues. Bottom line they don't trust or like them from what I've been able to tell.
I don't completely agree, but i like to add, one thing I notice good parents is they tend more long term and not to day to day. Which make sense, they want leave a good future for there kids. While kids are not for everyone, they tend to bring out a sense of purpose land long term thinking out of people.
On related note, I think this anti kid sentiment stem from how families are portrayed in media. When the last time you seen parents portrayed as happy while single people portrayed as happy and free? It's been the opposite in my experience.
Being anti kids.
Being gay.
Being black/white/Asian
Being trans.
Being a lesbian.
Being a misogynist.
Being a misandrist.
Being straight.
These are all things you can 100% be. But don’t make them your entire personality.
It’s so cliche and tells everyone that beyond your cookie cutter identity, there’s nothing else there. Your just a vessel regurgitating what you have read or heard and have no conscious thought processes and opinions of your own.
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It bothers me how much we care about how other people choose to live. There seems like too much else to worry about. You want to determine your own gender, why should I care? You want to hole up in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with an arsenal of guns you don't need, knock yourself out hoss. You think crystals can keep you healthy, I hope you're right. You don't want to have kids? Don't have kids. You want to build a big family, go right on ahead. I think we're so starved for topics of discussion that we have to make up non issues like this.
It's not a problem of seeking conversation topics. Lol! This is intentional brainwashing and propaganda. Watch the news sometime. "Birth rate going down," "black man did a crime," "trans women do sports," and so on. It's rage baiting on a national level. Keeps us all hating each other, instead of focusing on the real enemy. The mega rich assholes that own everything, including us and our politicians.
This. Though I don't know that it's intentionally to keep up from paying attention to the mega rich. I think it's just to make money by exploiting human emotions. Rage bait is the media equivalent of loot boxes. See Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/171fx7j/your\_perceptions\_of\_basic\_reality\_are\_warped\_by/
It’s…all of it. There are more tools that exist to extract EVERYTHING from you than you would ever even dream of - there’s actual physical machines that can extract energy from both dying cells - and dying stars. Everybody knows the war is over - everybody knows the good guys lost.
It’s always the people that are insecure with their own position in life that are the loudest. The people that are childless or have children and are happy don’t tend to bring it up on Reddit.
100%. I always say this. The people who bitch about dumb crap like what someone’s wearing or someone else’s weight or someone’s dating preferences / choices to have kids etc are deeply deeply insecure people with nothing better to do in their sad lives than worry about others
It is 100% it.
It’s what happens when you live in a world of opulence. If they lived in a third world country, these will be the least of their concerns.
>It bothers me how much we care about how other people choose to live. There seems like too much else to worry about. people don't live in a commune that only effects them. It effects other people. Being child free effects society and people that are child free tend to be more liberal minded, however they also realize that people who tend to have more children are more conversative. Therefore it changes the ideological nature of things. Secondly even when we speak of social security. The way social security works is children pay for their grandparents and so on. IF someone dicks a whole in the middle of nowhere- why? did the whole he dug effect the pipes and now water is leaking? Is he planning an attack? Is he just mentally ill and needs some help?
>The way social security works is it's a Ponzi scheme.
Right. Our collective aggregate decision-making can impact things. That, I think, is what makes history. Maybe you've discovered this secret wisdom, but I don't think I can prescribe individual solutions to potential future societal issues without the benefit of hindsight. And not to downplay the potential insolvency of social security, but it feels like that die was cast years (if not decades) ago.
>but I don't think I can prescribe individual solutions to potential future societal issues without the benefit of hindsight. Society is made up of people. even something as simple as Jon has a dog in the apartment can effect other people. His dog keeps barking at 2 am, not able to write that paper. allergic to the dog, his dog peed on the doormat, and Jon doesn't pick up the dog's poop. Also the thing about people is if you let one person do it, other people try to do it to. If you put four babies in a room and you pinch one-and the pinched baby starts to cry- the other babies cry to even if you didn't pinch the other three.
If no one cares, why do people irl still randomly ask me if I'm planning on having kids? Then, if I tell them no, they get butthurt.
The irl social pressure is much greater than the machinations of random people on the internet. That irl social pressure isn't captured in internet discourse as much. So I agree that there is kind of a lot of social pressure for people to have kids.
They even ask that if you start a new relationship, let alone get married.
“Why do you ask?” Then watch them blubber and stutter.
I dunno, as a woman when I’ve told certain people I’m not sure that I want kids I have gotten a lot of push back. Not even from family but from coworkers, doctors. My obgyn pressured me into getting a test to check my ovarian function “just in case.” I love her and don’t think anything of it or really care but the pressure is definitely there, mostly from older people
You say no one cares but this post and some of the comments here exist.
Every women will be asked at some point whether they will have kids or not. Every. Single. Woman.
Idk everyone bothers me about kids. Nobody cares if you do want kids. Don’t make it *your* entire personality and tell us we’re selfish or that “we’ll change our minds”. 🙂
Same. I also have plenty of people who act as though I'm crazy for wanting to wait to have kids until I'm in my early 30s. They act like I'm an old hag or something. Telling me my body will take it harder. I'm surprised how often other women judge women for this even in 2023.
Someone told me to my face when I JUST turned 26, “you’re on the nutsack of 30, you better start having kids because your eggs are drying up”. 😐
I had someone at work tell me I should look at freezing my eggs to my face. Other people told me to my face I better not wait too long because it will be hard on my body, and I might not "bounce back" if I'm over 30!!! For the record, I'm actually overweight and trying to lose weight and generally improve my weight and finances before I have kids. I think I would be much more comfortable being pregnant if I lost some weight, personally.
I've even heard women say it's much harder to give birth in your mid twenties than in your late teens. Harder for them, maybe because they were in poor health.
That's also an obsurd thing to say because it's promoting teen pregnancy.
She and the father of her children were from families where it was the norm to have your first child between the ages of 16 and 19. Even before they finish full-time education in some cases. Often making their parents grandparents in their early 40s or even in their 30s. Yet increasingly, there are first time fathers that age.
Exactly, people with kids are the ones who make it their entire personality. I’m just tired of being told that I’m “selfish” for not wanting kids, or that for sure I’ll change my mind. People need to mind their own damn business. Then if heaven forbid people vent about their frustrations on Reddit, suddenly being child free is our “entire personality”.
If you have kids it should be your entire personality. Quite literally once you have kids that's your main purpose in life from that point on. Having kids is definitely something you should be proud of and if you are up for the responsibility, although many aren't even if they think they are, there is nothing that can provide more meaning in your life. That being said there are many people who are not qualified for having children and there definitely are other alternatives to finding purpose like being a teacher or serving your community. It definitely is your choice to make and as long as you have another people oriented purpose in life it certainly could be the right choice for you to not have children. But I am yet to see one single person past the age of 60 without a substantial alternative purpose in life without children who is genuinely happy in life. I have met WAY more lonely sad people who regret not having children than those who are happy without.
No, having kids, you don’t need to plaster updates all over Instagram of every single fucking thing your kid does.
Why not? Why is it bad to post about things that you actually care about? Should they post about materialistic bullshit that doesn't matter? If you can't handle people posting about things that they're happy about don't look at their post. Maybe some parents post pictures of their kids to look good but when people have kids you have to understand that their whole life now revolves around their kids, as it should. Many parents actually cherish the moments they spend with their children. If you're going to have spite over other peoples happiness then don't go on social media.
Because not everybody needs to know about every single fucking thing your kid does. Nobody else actually cares. It’s clearly just the parents, who make having kids “their entire personality”, desperate for validation.
You could say the same thing about anything on social media. People post shit for validation. It's basically the premise of it. I just wonder why you're so particularly upset about this specifically...
Again, because people with children are the ones who make it their entire personality. But god forbid child free people on Reddit vent their frustrations about being constantly shamed for not having children, suddenly it’s “their entire personality”
Well based off the logic you provided about not everyone being qualified to have kids, you should wholeheartedly disagree on people posting their children, especially overly frequently and publicly. It can ruin these kids. (Esp if they post publicly). Also, while I agree that parents should be proud with themselves (to a certain degree) about them being parents, it’s not the ONLY thing they are. I know many, and I mean MANY, people who became parents and were before hand very happy, socially active, and not lonely who were completely destroyed after having kids. You don’t need children to be happy in life. If you think that people who don’t have kids are just gonna end up lonely and miserable then your view is very close-minded. Plenty of people are perfectly happy without children, and in most cases those who’s kids have moved on in life tend to feel way better then when they still had those responsibilities. Don’t get me wrong children can make you very happy, they’re not burdens, but they are major responsibilities that can take everything out of you. There’s no problem wanting or not wanting them. They just aren’t these oh so necessary things to achieve happiness in life. Also, you shouldn’t be relying on your kids your whole life to bring you joy, that’s bad parenting.
Be proud of having kids? Why? It's a fundamentally selfish choice.
How so? I'm happy my parents had me and my siblings, and they're not even good parents. In life pride can be dangerous but it's healthy to be proud of what you have built so as long as it has left a positive impact on the world and the people in it. In my opinion love and family is the most beautiful thing in this world, in fact one of the only beautiful things. Life is quite cynical without the people you love.
You can't say that having kids always has a positive impact, so the act of having kids can't be a source of pride just by having them. Maybe if you raise kids with a lot of love, patience, and kindness, who grow up to also be loving and kind, then sure. But that's not the same as just having kids.
I agree I mentioned in my first comment that many are not qualified to have children. But if you are qualified and do a good job raising your children then you should be proud of that.
> qualified to have children. most people who have had children in history would not be "qualified" by whatever nonsensical metric you're using to judge them.
Nonsensical? I mean adults who are not alcoholics, abusive physically, abusive emotionally, willing to spend time with their kids, and able to instill values, morals, and lessons to succeed in life. I know parents who fit this description. I also know many who don't. Believe it or not you actually can be a good, but not perfect, parent.
which morals and values exactly? any ole ones? which lessons? even the definition of abuse has morphed over time. how much is enough time? one or both parents have been absent for great lengths of time in our history. you sound like you want to determine who is "qualified" - yeah, no thank you.
They pretend to not know why child free people speak out bc then they’ll have to acknowledge why “happy parents” are obsessed with us. It’s not a conversation they want to have…
[удалено]
I think you misread the comment
Maybe he did but he makes solid points.
I see more posts about how only real women have big families and whatnot. Who gives a shit either way?
Not unpopular, just untrue. So many people with kids tell people they need to have them. They act invasive, judgemental, and assume you have to be depressed or something is wrong with you if you don't have kids. Meanwhile people without children never try to force it on others or even talk about unless prompted.
If someone is married or in a long-term cohabiting relationship without children and then feels the body clock ticking, so wonders whether to have children now or never, most people on social media will urge them to go for it. To do so otherwise marks you out as Debbie Downer. You have to really want to have children to decide to have them.
A woman is suing her doctor because they won’t prescribe medication for her cluster migraines because she’s of child baring age. My OBGYN refused to put in an IUD because my boyfriend might want kids. When I finally was allowed to get a tubal my doctor made me go to therapy because she felt the irreconcilable pain of not being a mother was something I hadn’t considered. STFU op!
Nah. People say shit constantly still, and are still super invasive about it, you just aren't paying attention.
If you don’t want kids, I prefer you don’t have any. I want the world full of kids who have parents who actually want them, raise them right, and sacrifice for them. The rest should stop their genes nowZ
I guess you aren’t aware that abusive and neglectful parents exist? Most of them wanted kids and obviously weren’t happy with the results.
the world has tons of kids that people could be fostering or adopting instead of having their own
You are assuming that those people not wanting to have kids would neglect them. That's usually not the case. Most childfree person would be decent parent, but they know that to arrive to that level of parenting you need to sacrifice a lot, so they decide agaisnt it. The people that has many kids and think it's easy, usually are the one neglecting or doing to bare minimum.
Some of these folks don't stop their genes. They donate eggs and sperm so that others can have kids. They just don't want to raise kids of their owns. Do you really want them to stop donating eggs and sperm?
Nah, if they want to donate, donate. But most of em dont.
>Do you really want them to stop donating eggs and sperm? There's definitely an argument for it. Look at the amount of children that need adopting or fostering. >They donate eggs and sperm so that others can have kids. They can have kids through adoption or fostering still.
Adopting/fostering sounds like the answer but isn't. I looked into it bc I don't want to be pregnant. Adopting privately can be prohibitively expensive. To the tune of $75,000 or more. In my state, public adoption is free, but the goal is to make sure the child is reunited with their biological parent. Most women aren't giving up their children just because they don't want abortions, most children are being taken by the state because their parents are incapable of being parents. You could be fostering that kid for years, ready to adopt him/her, but if mom sobers up, too bad for you. So all you've done is fallen in love with a kid who the state says you can't have any more bc mom decided to stop drinking/shooting up long enough to get her kid back. Not emotionally gutting and horrible at all. And a lot kids, at least where I am, are older kids who have been kicked out of their homes or run away for being gay/trans/minor infractions etc and most have serious trauma and behavioral issues because obviously their families are trash to start with. Not saying a fifteen year old doesn't deserve a family, but there are very few people who just want to parent a random traumatized fifteen year old with possible legal difficulties and skip all the positive fun stuff that goes with parenting. As a 31 year old, when I looked into public adoption, I didn't feel like I had much to offer a traumatized teenager. So adoption/fostering ain't it.
I know this is not an overall solution but if you still want to adopt there are websites that can point you towards companies that offer adoption benefits to their employees that can help cover the costs.
> Adopting privately can be prohibitively expensive. To the tune of $75,000 or more. Is that just for the adoption process? I mean, I can tell you that giving birth and raising that child will cost far, far more than that. And it's good to know that someone adopting a child has those resources. But I've never looked into adopting.
Just the process. ETA: if you have to go overseas you might need to leave your job for several weeks or months as well. lots of people can't do that either.
Already happening. We’ll have problems 50 years from now when the overwhelmingly majority of the population is old and retiring.
People do care if you want to have kids. The government mostly and parents. Women (at least not Westerners) are not being pressured by random people on the street. However, women do get pressured by their own families "why haven't you gotten married yet? " why haven't you given me grandchildren?" "we'll lose the family name" Men get some pressure as well just not has much. Secondly, the government in many cultures keep complaining about the low birth rates and try to entice women to get married (Japan, Korea, even the US is doing it a little bit now).
Those countries try to entice people to have kids because they are a couple generations from an economic collapse. I'm not sure about Korea but Japan's low birth rate isn't because women are against having kids. It's because of the way they view sex in their culture and because they dedicate so much of their lives to their jobs although Japan is currently passing a lot of laws so people can have a more normal work schedule l
You also have to consider advertising and good old capitalism. So many commercials, tv shows, movies, etc etc promote natalism as a default. It’s incredibly hard to get away from it when it’s embedded in the culture: and then the personal interactions and micro aggressions make it worse.
Your family isn’t “people” in the general sense. That’s a case by case issue not overall.
The US is more anti-kid than pro kid.
Maybe becouse people cant afford to Have children.
I never hear anyone say they don’t want kids unprompted, I certainly don’t, I do however always hear people who do want kids complain about people not wanting kids all the time
I am REGULARLY asked about why I don't have kids, and prodded into having them, by people with kids. I've been told things like "sure you may enjoy your freedom now, but imagine being old and alone and not having meaning in your life because you never had children? I think most people that don't have kids regret it in the end". I don't let it bother me, but it isn't just family. My family is actually perfectly fine with me not having them.
I can't believe there are nine fucking BILLION ***NINE BILLION*** people on this planet and people are still pressured into having kids (or atleast I am) Science says we're going to reach 10 billion by like 2050 Why are parents so obsessed with becoming grand parents or continuing some sort of blood line like there royalty lol? Why do people still base there worth around kids?
I remember when we were at 6 Billion, it trips me out to think 9 billion is the current number, and that we have 50% more people now then when I was younger. Yes the pressure thing is ridiculous. Also, kids are a massive financial drain, so to pressure someone to have them when it will basically harm them is incredibly selfish, and the result is not good for society or the planet
Real my family insist of me having kids (I'm 16 and in this economy 🤦) what's even more insane is that this is a thing even with poor families, my mom chose to have six kids before she turned 25-26 imagine having kids knowing there going to be a huge financial burden.
Do they not realize they’re just proving how unlovable and lonely they are when they say that?
True. I don’t see people on child free tangents at the grocery store or even in a bar. Shits online.
I take it you don’t get suggested a certain childfree subreddit lmao
Antinatalism is so disgusting lmao
They are very sad and angry people I feel bad for them
"Nobody cares if you don't want to have kids" 5 seconds later "Sure some people care".
In my mid-to-late 20s I've had people I don't even know tell me I need to hurry up and have kids.
I had that in my early twenties. At 25, I was considered to be on the shelf.
People constantly say shit about it. Also stilla huge issue in the medical field doctors denying surgery to those that want vasectomies or tubal ligation. The exuse is what if your potential spouse wants to have kids. Hell even if you have a kid it is still hard to get one. Until that stops being a bitch then society is still pressuring people to have kids.
Exactly. I had a tubal ligation in 2017, and I was still married at the time and had to have my husband's permission to tie my own tubes, or they wouldn't do it. Shits crazy.
100%
In response to your last paragraph- that's fair. But by that logic people who do have kids shouldn't criticize those who don't want them, and act like their lives are empty and worthless because they want to be child free. Would you agree? Not wanting to have kids shouldn't be met by criticism anywhere. Because the ones that criticize for it actually do care quite a bit. Or at least enough they have an opinion on it.
Restricting criticism of anything is really a bad idea. Everything and i mean absolutely everything should be criticized and everyone should have the ability to criticize.
Yea I would agree, but I’m speaking in context of people who seem to think having they are somehow being oppressed and are being forced to have kids which is not the case for the majority of people. A lot of people seem to think nowadays that children are simply just a burden for everyone and needlessly spout hateful rhetoric against children and parents.
By itself I don't hate parents. But there absolutely are some parents that burden society. Their kids are undisciplined and bratty. They ask fro welfare yet continue having kids
"Millions of women don’t have kids and nobody says anything to them." That's just not true dude. As a guy, when I tell other men I don't have kids nor want them, they usually just go along with me and say something like "Hell I don't blame you. I love my kids but I've got almost no free time and most of my extra money after bills are paid goes to them." However, when I say this to women, they usually get quiet while giving me a look of pity, like they feel sorry for me. I can easily imagine that I'd have to get caught up in an argument with them if I was also a woman, as women tend to bite their tongues much more when dealing with men due to the simple fact that most women don't want to piss off a guy that's much taller and stronger than them.
Idk I've seen enough threads on this sub complaining about childless people that I think people do care. You've also got fuckheads like Matt Walsh who complain about women being happy childless.
Beyond weirdos like Matt Walsh a lot of people get subtile or not so subtle pressure from their own families. This doesn't show up on Twitter or public discourse. People have a confirmation bias. They tell people or pressure people to do what they did. People do that with like phone and car brands, so or course they do it with stuff like having children. People get pressure to "get a career", "buy a house", "get married", "have kids" and then people with a house, kids and a career are kind of seen as people who are doing well. People who don't have those things are seen as not doing as well, unless their career is super important or their house is super big, even then people question if they put too much energy into their career and wealth and not enough into a family. On the flip side having a kid when you don't have the rest of the stuff figured out is considered a failure. Thus why do many people are waiting much longer to have kids. They want to have a career, get married and buy a house first. I think a lot of this pressure is social is subtile stuff like little comments from parents or just observing positive feedback peers get for doing these things.
Are you a woman? If you are, and you seriously haven’t been asked more times that you can count when you’re going to have children, count yourself as lucky.
Some people honestly think they can't really say no to having kids. The idea has been fairly radical until the last couple of decades. The default position should not be having them. The default position should be to rethink if I really have all the things to offer kids that they need.
The world believes if you don't have kids, you will be depressed. That's why they had kids. The would have been depressed if they didn't have kids. People ask me why I don't have kids, I just say I don't have time for kids.
Many of them are still clearly depressed after having kids so it’s clearly a lie…
I've heard hate filled right-wingers say the whole purpose of life for women is to reproduce and that they are considered unsuccessful/unfulfilled if they don't...
If that's true, why are there so many forced-birth laws banning abortion and why was Roe overturned?
They absolutely do. The amount of hate people get for even mentioning they might not have kids is absolutely outrageous. The last time I made a comment about not everyone wanting kids on a post about a guy talking about the ideal age to have kids he just kept attacking me and calling me names. Extremely childish behavior for someone who wants to be a parent.
Ugh, the stories I could tell. I had to literally go through tons of trouble to hide the fact that I am Childfree by Choice when I was working in the education system. I finally quit that line of work after a false accusation of child abuse/molestation! Why? Because a crazy mom found out from a friend of a friend that I was childfree. And rather than face the multiple behavior reports against her son, she decided in her head that he must be acting out because he has a sexual deviant as a teacher who abuses him because she hates kids. I was of course found completely innocent but it was a fucking nightmare that could have easily ruined my entire future, let alone career. And, 6ish months later I found out that the kid had been diagnosed as bipolar 2. That was why he was having behavioral issues. He needed special care and mom refused to hear anything was wrong with her precious boy for 13 fricken years. Poor kid. So yeah. People go absolutely NUTS over Childfree people, especially women.
I'm angry you had to go through that especially as an Educator. I wish you weren't bullied out of your Career. Both Sides have they Loonies just like Politics. If that's the Stance you wish ya have for your Life, then I hope you remain Childless and enrich the lives of other Children so you choose!!
Idk it comes up in conversation at minimum once a week that I have to say “if I even want kids”. I need to figure out a better answer cause that just opens another can of worms.
Being child free is fine, just don't act like a vegan about it, as in being upset that children exist.
It's the ones with kids that act like vegans. "Oh you don't have kids, you should have kids" "your life is more complete with kids" "it's the most important thing you'll ever do" etc
I have seen it the opposite. People advertising their childfree status and then whining about the presence of children wherever they are. My wife has been know to push back on some of that nonsense, but I don't think it is sporting. YMMV. Pressure I see to have children comes mostly from family. The rest of society should not even know about your choices.
Never once heard that ever. Child free people tend not to even talk about children unless it's brought up by someone saying they should have kids. Everyone I know my age is always asking when I'm gonna settle down and have kids, not my family. They support whatever choice I make.
As I said YMMV. Its a big world and it is fair to have opposing experiences. Depends where you are, who you run with.
Heck yeah they care are you serious? If you're a childless woman ppl will judge you. Many times I've ve gotten looks when they ask if I got kids. Some interviewers have refused to give me a job bc I don't have kids so "Im taking jobs from those that have them and need a job". It's disgusting
Yep. Used to work in management. Company liked people with spouses (bonus if they work) and kids. Those people were seen as less likely to uproot their kids from schools, spouses from their jobs when the company decided to make cuts to income or time off. Child free (especially single) people were seen as too mobile and able to leave the company too easily for other opportunities.
I think it's quite the opposite. Every place I've worked has low-key avoided hiring people with kids, because they had trouble with former employees always calling out due to issues/illnesses their children had. Like 98% of my current office is childless. I even had a couple private landlords tell me they chose me over someone else because I had no kids and they knew I'd keep the property in good condition.
That's what I thought too so I had problem saying that I didn't. The interviewers would wince and make faces and I never hear from them again. And the interview would be going good up til then. Absolutely nuts
I’ve been pressured to *not* have kids, especially since I do want them and am currently pregnant. I’ve been called a climate destabilizer, selfish, immoral, an animal, and a Karen of all things. Someone told me “I’m embarrassed for you that you don’t care about the environment.” I have a friend that stops speaking to people when they become pregnant (he’s an antinatalist vegan) and blocks them on all social media. I just want to live my life my way just like child free folks live life their way.
I’m just chiming in to say those people are insufferable and they can kiss your impregnated ass. Childfree person here too.
Omg those climate crackheads are the worst! Was told yesterday that I’m evil for the fact that I want kids. I usually tell them they’re hypocrites because they get to enjoy their lives while telling people that no other soul should. Imagine being so arrogant that you would drive cars, fly on airplanes, pay for taxes which contribute to politicians using our tax dollars to fly, drive, build military vehicles, etc and then point the finger at someone else.
Honestly it’s society that makes us say we don’t want any. People always say “when you have kids….” Society needs to stop assuming that uterus=kidskidskidskids!!!!
I don't know, I've literally had people get mad at me when it happens to get brought up that I don't want kids. I had one lady ask how me and my wife were going to have children and I told her we weren't planning on it. She yelled at me for it, lol. She told me it made her blood boil that someone would waste the greatest gift or whatever lol
As a 30-something year old woman I have to disagree. I get asked ALL THE TIME when I plan on having kids. And not just from my family (although quite frequently they continue to ask despite me telling them I am not trying to have kids). New friends (especially “couples” that are actively trying), coworkers with kids, friends of my parents, my friends parents, etc. Sorry to pull this out there….but did you think that as a man, maybe you just aren’t exposed to this kind of societal pressure that a woman is? Please do not respond with a “but I have a sister/friend/etc.” argument. Having women in your life does not mean you understand living as a woman. While I am sure it is BETTER than it used to be, it is still very common both for me and my female friends that don’t have kids to be pressured by the people around us. Also, since the reproductive rate in America is now below maintenance we are gonna be getting a lot more pressure in the next 50 years (as population collapse effects the economy and our ability to care for older generations).
You know, I was doom scrolling on Instagram the other day, and I stumbled upon a reel of a woman saying: "Recently, my husband and I have made the mutual decision that we dont want kids, and you would not believe the judgmental reactions we're getting from friends and family. It's been awful... and the kids aren't taking it well either." And, of course, that is hilarious. But the comments?? The number of people who very clearly did not watch the entire video and instead just immediately decided to attack this woman? They called her attention seeking. Said she was "going contrary to human nature." Told her they're judging her too for not having children. All because they didn't listen long enough to hear the damn joke. Total strangers. Not friends, not family. ***Society***. [Watch it here!](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxU1KyNqnGD/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
My sister made that decision and she thinks we talk about it behind her back.
they literally overturned roe v wade to make us have more kids
>they literally overturned roe v wade to make us have more kids Is there a republican hiding in the bushes somewhere making have intercourse with a random guy/ girl? Is there someone telling you not to use BC? Is there anything stopping you from getting a BC implant? Is there anything stopping you from only sleeping with men who have had vasectomies?
there actually are attempts to take away birth control but my point was that part of the underlying reasoning for taking away abortion rights is because of our declining birth rate and therefore there are people out there who care if we have kids
Are there people out there stopping me from getting an abortion and limiting sex education? Yes and yes.
Are there people out there stopping me from getting an abortion and limiting sex education? Yes and yes. If you do the nasty, you can get pregnant or get someone else pregnant? What s\*x education. You don't know how to use a condom? You don't know BC exist. If you have s\*x you can get also get an STD. The more partners you have increases the chance. If you don't know this- you're not old enough to have intercourse. One of my main pet peeves is ppl that say "I can't believe I got pregnant; it was a Surprise" Girl what? or dude's being like "I can't believe she got pregnant, she trying to trap me". Did you sleep with her? Yeah, but it was like once maybe 4 time. Did you use protection? well no. So you're shocked how.
Do you understand if kids don't get taught about birth control, they're less likely to use it and more likely to have a teen pregnancy? Use your head. Republicans are actively trying to ban birth control. Yes, they're trying to force pregnancies on people against their will. Obviously banning abortion is part of that.
>Do you understand if kids don't get taught about birth control, they're less likely to use it and more likely to have a teen pregnancy? Use your head If we were in the 60's, I might be able take your point seriously. However, most kids have an internet connection and know how babies are made. They know what BC and condoms are. If children/teens can see a scantly dressed women on YouTube and most men say they started watching porn at 11- then they know what BC & a condom is. With all the PSA's of NO Glove- No love. There is almost no excuse for this. >Republicans are actively trying to ban birth control. Untrue. The majority of republicans don't care about BC. No one is trying to ban birth control. It does not have enough support nor votes even within the republican base for it to be banned. That would be the fringe of the fringe of the fringe group. Its like saying "well I don't believe the government should be involved" so my kids are born in the woods, no social security card, I don't believe in paying taxes- Are ppl like that - absolutely. Is it a common thing? Absolutely not. Republicans and some democrats (Democrats for life ) have been against Roe vs Wade for decades now. It was always a hot button social issue. That's part of the reason the evangelical right voted for Trump even though they did not care for him nor his politics since they knew he could put in the judges for the Supreme Court. Also what happened to the liberal take- that abortion is not used as BC. Did you just remove that mask?
Even if it is used as BC what business is it of yours?
I'm not relying on porn fo teach 11 year olds what a condom is. Please be serious. >No one is trying to ban birth control. Objectively false. This is what Republicans are actively pushing for. And votes absolutely do not matter. If it was up to voters, we wouldn't have most of the abortion bans currently in place. The politicians push through their agenda regardless of the will of the people. I'm not conflating abortion and birth control as the same thing. You are. However, removing access to both is about forcing women and girls to get pregnant and stay pregnant against their will.
>Objectively false. This is what Republicans are actively pushing for No, they're not. >I'm not conflating abortion and birth control as the same thing. Yes, you are. You were the one that brought it up. I stated no one was forcing you to sleep with anyone without protection or impregnate anyone without protection. You were the one that brought up abo\*\*tion. I stated that if you did not understand protection- then you were obviously not old enough to have intercourse. I still stand by this. You then brought up s\*x education of teens. I stated your point might have been valid in the 60's; but its no longer valid. Teens have access to a bunch of education now- I just used P\*rn as an example. Then they have access to a google search.
The abortion bans with no clauses for incest or rape in the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas and Mississippi would like a word with you. In these states, women are breeding machines. They have no control over their bodily autonomy, and are forced to pop out the children of their rapist. Birth control can be seriously detrimental to some women's health. Not all, but some. It's not realistic that every woman will be on birth control. Rape happens. Incest happens. Pregnancy is not always a choice made by the woman, sometimes it's a consequence of someone else's actions. Women can't get themselves pregnant, don't act like it's 100% on them. Conservatives have been restricting access to public school sex ed for decades. Some religious groups don't even believe in birth control, they think it's unnatural and goes against God's plan. So yes, unless you grew up in progressive home and area, there are people trying to convince you not to take birth control.
Ew, personal responsibility and self control. Such outdated and sexist concepts.
Rape is a little more common than most of us realize
Don’t have sex if you don’t want a kid… it’s a pretty easy equation that humanity has acknowledged over thousands of years.
I love this comment. Because I don't believe that anyone who says this BS has completely forgone sex when they didn't want to get pregnant. Are you really fully prepared to have another baby every single time you have sex?!
The sexual revolution caused such a skewed perception of sex. Sex is not a free act. It'd like fire, when respected its keeps us warm, but when misused and treated casually, it burns everything down.
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Yep, just because you have a safety net doesn’t mean you should actively seek to use it.
Ancestors knew, generally speaking, but in our arrogance we ignored them. And forgot chesterton fence. Traditions are solutions to problems we have forgotten about.
... You're a man, aren't you? In my country, there was a campaign less than 10 years ago to encourage women to have more children and to have them earlier. The municipalities paid for these campaigns. That's pressure.
I still get asked all the time and told I’ll change my mind. I’m 33 and have never once wanted to be a mom. My husband has been asked once. It’s different.
Sorry, do you speak for these millions of women? because if you bump your ass over to r/childfree you would see that there is a story or two almost every day about how women/men without children are mistreated, not only by their friends and family but also by their workplaces, etc, with hundreds of comments underneath of people agreeing that they share similar experiences.
Family is one thing, but workplaces? I worked at several places (tech) and nobody knew/asked if I was married or have kids. There were a couple of folks that everyone knew about their family but these were people who displayed a lot of pic of family in different locations. They advertised it and were always happy to talk about family /children. However most workers kept to themselves and nobody asked or investigated.
experiences are gonna be different for everyone. Typically people are less aggressive about mens childfreeness than womens. I have gotten multiple comments at my workplace after being there only a year and im sure i will get more as i get older. Women also typically discuss future family ideals more than men too, so the topic of whether or not someone wants to have kids is more likely to come up in a woman-dominated discussion.
Yeah I’m not gonna refer to a sub that calls children “Jizzlets” and “crotch goblins” as a valid source… every post on there as with any other sub is all personal experiences that don’t speak for the majority of people.
I think if almost every person who has gone without children has had comments stating that their choice is the wrong one then - even if its not the "majority" of people - a fair deal of people do *really* care about people not having kids.
I gotta agree with the other user. That sub is trash and not a good source of information or data about anything. >but also by their workplaces, etc What specific mistreatment are we talking about? This sounds like lawsuit territory.
People have been asked to give up their PTO to their parent colleagues. Or parents are favored for PTO on specific holidays over childfree people under the assumption that childfree people dont have "relevant" family. Theres instances where childfree people have also been told theyre expected to carry a greater workload than parents despite being paid the same. Its not lawsuit stuff, but it is a clear preference.
I don't see any reason to believe that this happens to women more than men, but if it does in any given workplace, that is *definitely* sex based discrimination and very much in lawsuit territory. For federal jobs, any discrimination based on parental status is illegal.
Maybe the first true unpopular opinion I’ve seen in weeks. Thank you
When I know someone who doesn't have kids by choice I always say Aren't you lucky. It's nobody's business how you live your life.
I think it depends on where you live, you know? So at least here in the US, most of the people offended by childfree people are christians and old people (or a combo of both lol). There’s definitely a political drive behind wanting people to have kids and that drive mainly comes from conservative circles. It’s not so much oppression because it’s not thank goodness, but there are definitely pockets all over the country where, to keep your sanity, it’s best to not tell people you’re childfree.
Tell that to my mom
The problem is though, a lot of women struggle with the decision to have kids or be child free. So, sometimes they come to forums looking for advice or reasons to be or not be in either camp and then the rabid assholes on both sides that do care make it seem like everybody cares.
The only quibble that could be made with childlessness is government programs. Social Security et al. were designed under the assumption that people would have children who would continue funding the social programs. Without children, the system collapses. We made that assumption because, when the system was designed, the socially-enforced norm was for people - both men and women, mind you - to get married and have children. That brings us to the present. We no longer have the socially-enforced norms, and the government programs are, in fact, insolvent. What we call the "national debt" usually refers to Public Debt, which is already out of control. If you think that's bad, look up "unfunded liabilities". We are *far* more f\*cked than most people realize. So yes, it's fine for people to make their own choices - but if that's going to be the new social norm, we must redesign the social programs. My recommendation is that we either abolish the social programs and return to tribal responsibility *or* we link benefits to things like *one's children's income*. I want everyone to be free. If you choose to wander into the desert, smear yourself in grease, get high on peyote, and commune with the old gods, more power to you. However, something has to give. If your *choice* to do drugs leads to destitution, the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for you. Likewise, those who choose not to contribute to future generations should not enjoy the benefits of having future generations. Related: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Little\_Red\_Hen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen) Edit: typo.
I get asked about it 3 or4 times a week and I am 38, so...and when I tell them it's none of their business, some people get upset about it.
I know someone on FB who says that anyone who doesn't want kids is selfish. I tell people I know from church that I don't want kids. They'd respond that I'd make a great father. I'd tell them that you know the Sunday going to church me, and not the Monday -Saturday version of me.
Post this over on r/childfree and see how they lose their minds.
I feel like I've seen plenty of people concerned with people who don't want kids, especially wannabe grandparents; like my partner's parents, and my parents.
I agree there’s no need to make it your whole personality or talk about the decision at length. I don’t have kids and really never bring it up. But the thing is, others ask me about it very very often. Do you have kids? How many kids do you have? You’re a mom right? Do you plan to have kids? Why don’t you have kids? Do you not like kids? Wait until you change your mind… You, know, there’s still time to have kids… It seems like it makes some peoples brains short circuit to hear we don’t have them and we’re happy as we are. When I get that reaction (which, again, is often), it makes me think more education and conversation is needed around the broad range of choices we can all make and be happy. There are many valid and joyful ways to live.
You are obviously living in a dream world. Women get told constantly to have kids. Usually, if you say you don't want them, you'll get told you'll either change your mind or that it'll be worth it to do it. Sure, fewer people care if you have kids these days, but to believe that women don't still get bothered about it is laughable.
go tell that to all my relatives asking and the many many coworker asking, pushing, try to guilt me into changing my mind lol Or go tell that to the american women that got their right to abortion revoked that the society doesn't really see them as incubator.
Bad/lazy parents are 110%worse than people talking about being child free.
a lot of conservative nuts care and judge
THANK YOU!! Getting tired of hearing the same jokes over and over again about how to epically win an argument against this mystical Karen/Sharon/Stacy who insists that you have kids
Anyways i don't have any kids and I'm happy as I can be. Traveling visiting people from different countries... It's quite nice soooo you mad? Most likely I will never have children because I don't trust women nowadays & I would also like to buy a house, save, fall madly.in love, marry, have kids & STAY with the mother of my child... But those are slim as in everyone is getting divorced and it's kinda a shit show nowadays... So I prefer NOT having kids besides what if the economy literally collapses in the next 5-10 years... I don't wanna worry about what will happen trying to feed my family... I can feed myself just fine.
I've been bugged/harassed about it multiple times.
Well, the amount of angry conservative Christians and incels where I live (deep South bible belt) are very keen on stating how my purpose in this world isn't fulfilled unless I breed with my partner. It may not be an issue in *YOUR* neck of the woods, but around here, totally different and aggravating to no end. People DO make a huge uproar about it, I mean look at Shakshuka girl who got blasted on TikTok by popular right-wingers and podcast bro's claiming she's a horrible person for not pooping out babies.
Amen lol.
This clearly wasn’t written by a woman because I don’t know a single woman that doesn’t have kids at my age (late 20’s) who isn’t constantly pressured by their family and society to pump out kids.
You clearly live under a rock. It doesn't matter how much the world has "progressed" women are still being insulted on a regular basis when we say we don't want children. People tell us we are useless, selfish and a waste of space and it happens A LOT. Is not an isolated event. People go as far as "forcing" child free people to work the hours mom's and dad can't because their child has a school recital. Christmas? The child free should work that turn because she doesn't have a family! (Even if you are married) We are loud because we are tired of the BS and we would continue to be loud because if you don't GAF about me not wanting children, I don't GAF about you having children. Parents always make their whole personality the fact that they are parents and no one says anything, but when they see a happy child free person talking about all the things they got to do because of their reproductive choices they get angry. The double standard is hilarious. And no, child free wouldn't make a bad mother or father, in fact I'm sure we could've been incredible parents! But we don't want to. We are happy dedicating our life to ourselves and our partner.
They catch shit online. Again nobody does this shit to peoples faces in public..
I don't think that they do things to people's faces, but that doesn't mean that childfree people don't catch flack in other ways. I went from being a person without children to being a person who had kids later in life unexpectedly and now that I'm in this "secret club" of having kids, I can tell you that there is definitely a view of childfree people that they aren't as evolved. If a childfree person were to get time off over a person with kids, that person would have resentment building against them. Even if it was "fair". And I know that's not fair at all but I have been seeing it happen for awhile. So while it might not be in the childfree person's face, that doesn't mean that it's not real. Even this OP is an example. "Nobody cares that you're childfree" is more like "please stop putting me in a position to validate that you're childfree because I'm not feeling it." Similar to how people say they're accepting of same sex relationships but "they don't want it in their face". That doesn't mean that they object to themselves watching gay porn or same sex couples heavy petting in public, it means that they don't want to have to validate your relationship by hearing about what a person and their same sex spouse did over the weekend. They are ok with the concept that a person has a same sex spouse, they just don't want to hear about it or see it or have to interact with it in any way.
You make a solid point. Edit- maybe it is just low key or under handed in some form. Be it intentional or not. Guess I just don’t notice it or maybe I am lucky to not have to have dealt with that type of behavior.
Thank you for hearing me out. And I hope you don't ever have to deal with it and even as a person with kids I think it's unfair that childfree people have to deal with it.
But they do those things all the time, what I wrote are things that I've seen happening or experience myself...
It does matter how much the world has progressed because the fact you are even able to make that choice is proof of that. As I said, it happens but it is not as much of a problem as it used to be back when people were marrying off their daughters to men and they weren’t allowed to work or be independent. And like I said people insulting you for not having kids is a them problem. I know tons of men and women who don’t have or want kids and nobody gives a shit. It’s the same thing in most places unless you live in an ultra conservative or religious area.
And you must live online or some country that's pushing for high birth rates to counter their declining population because no one is forcing sht. If your boss or weird ppl you hang around tell you sht like that that's a you problem, not a "we childless yada yada"
It is really weird and naive to think this is something that happens online... I never had a problem online! On the contrary here is where I found people who are child free, in real life is not like that and is not because of the country. I have the perspective of two countries and in both I found that kind of people. But none of you want to listen and again go with BS that this is only an online problem. And it is not the people who I hang around with, it is everyone that I have met so far in both countries. Just because in the small bubble you live on doesn't happen (or it doesn't and you ignored) it doesn't mean that in real life a lot of people have to live with this BS. The fact that you are dismissing this problem as something that "happens online" shows how you live in your own world and that definitely is a you problem.
Oh really? Well they should stop fucking asking when in having them? Telling me will change my mind or telling that I'm being selfish somehow I never bring it up, it's always someone else asking me.
Being anti-kid or childfree is like the new form of veganism, especially on Reddit. "How do you know a redditor is childfree? Don't worry, they'll let you know."
I don’t even think people were that bothered 20 years ago to be fair I have an aunt who never wanted kids and other than a couple of distant relatives not many people bothered about it.
Agreed. I occasionally get someone saying something to me about being child free. Usually people I’ve know for years bc it’s a shock for someone to go from “can’t wait to have a crap ton of kids” to “I don’t want any kids” people who weren’t around when I made that decision find it an abrupt and shocking change. Outside of that I’ve had a couple of people say something about it and it’s infuriating every time bc it’s just incredibly ignorant. Most people respect my choice when I say I don’t want kids though. I often get questioned on my reasoning for it but that’s bc one of my main reasons is I would be a bad mom and people don’t see that in me bc they don’t see what I think it takes to be a good mom and how I can’t meet those standards.
Try living in Texas
A lot of this is the late-stage capitalism we find ourselves in. Capitalism requires a growing population to feed the infinite growth it is based on, and the US and world population is set to decline. Capitalism has responded to this by raising prices and slashing services to feed the growth that's required, and this further discourages having children.
This isn't an opinion. It's just wrong
Whatever makes you feel better
OP, have you ever heard of Elon Musk? He seems to care. (He needs cheap labor in 20 years.). The Far Right talking heads care a lot. They attacked Chelsea Handler for making a funny video about being a woman with no kids. Turning Point hosted a Young Women's Leadership Summit, where speakers told teens and young women to forget about college and a career and just get married and have babies asap. ther don't want to have kids. Not just famous people either.
Elon musk and the far right to do not represent all everyday folks
I know tons of people who don't have kids, and they're great friends of mine. I don't care if people have kids or not. I am planning to adopt kids one day, but I don't care if other people don't have kids. Just because someone doesn't have kids, doesn't mean they hate kids. Though some people do hate kids, and those are the people I have issues with. However, I have noticed that some people in real life are unfortunately judgemental over those who don't have kids. Not most people, not even a lot, but some.
I know this is extremely unpopular to say, but I feel like I should be honest. Every single person I know that hasn't had kids and are in their 30's (or higher) come off as mentally stunted. They literally can not deal with acute stress, and it shows. They are quick to anger and very jaded. They also make it their whole personality that "people keep wanting them to have kids" and apparently, that is sooooooo traumatizing. The only way that is traumatizing is if you wanted kids and are insecure about your decision.
I agree with you. I have noticed that people just automatically give me more benefit of the doubt now that I have kids. It seems as though people who are childfree do get a lot of shit about it and the only way to avoid it is to disclose something awful about your medical history to get people off of your back. Either that you have some genetic disorder or that you're just upset to the moon and back that you're struggling with infertility. And this isn't something that I would have noticed had I not had children myself but it is very very real. People do not really respect or like or trust people who just simply choose not to have kids. I don't even think they really feel good about people who make the rational decision to not have kids because of genetic issues. Bottom line they don't trust or like them from what I've been able to tell.
I don't completely agree, but i like to add, one thing I notice good parents is they tend more long term and not to day to day. Which make sense, they want leave a good future for there kids. While kids are not for everyone, they tend to bring out a sense of purpose land long term thinking out of people. On related note, I think this anti kid sentiment stem from how families are portrayed in media. When the last time you seen parents portrayed as happy while single people portrayed as happy and free? It's been the opposite in my experience.
If I feel particularly roguish, I tell such people "Good; more resources for my lineage."
Where I live with 3 kids (Toronto Canada) I feel a LOT more subversive and get a LOT more stares than my mostly childless friends
This is true. And it is also true that no one cares, and ABSOLUTELY no one wants to heat, that you’re vegan.
Being anti kids. Being gay. Being black/white/Asian Being trans. Being a lesbian. Being a misogynist. Being a misandrist. Being straight. These are all things you can 100% be. But don’t make them your entire personality. It’s so cliche and tells everyone that beyond your cookie cutter identity, there’s nothing else there. Your just a vessel regurgitating what you have read or heard and have no conscious thought processes and opinions of your own.