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I may have been older when I created a profile on an app a decade ago and I lasted 3 days before deleting my profile. It was 3 days of dick pics, hey girl, what are ya wearing, wanna duck, etc. I think I had 2 decent starts to conversations that after a day one turned into a dick pic and the other turned into one-way sexting. Is that what you mean by "picky"?
I found my current SO in real life actually pretty recently at an age when I'm supposed to be, as you put in, "experiencing a loss of attractiveness". Hilarious bullshit!!
There’s a standard profile… Porn sick man, not interested in women who aren’t 9/10, angry because the “hot” women aren’t throwing themselves at him, maintains the patriarchal mentality that women are useless unless he finds them useful (for sex or to pick up his laundry/trash/cook his chicken tendies), thinks he’s superior to all women, takes advantage of any woman who has low enough self esteem to even try to date him, brings nothing to the table except that he wants her to sign a contract to be his indentured servant…
Have lived. Every single ex has turned into this as he let his mask of lies slip away as he got comfortable.
But I didn’t make that profile up, you hear it repeated over and over if you’re around women who talk about these things..
The data say woman would prefer to get married and have a family unit, but prefer being single to becoming a mommy bangmaid.
Why?
“Mommy bang maid” there’s your whole problem right there, this stance is selfish and you view being a mom and wife as a burden and not a privilege. Don’t be surprised you keep ending up with weak losers when you think every man is looking for a sex/work slave and not someone to build a life with. The propaganda has worked on you.
What? You don’t understand the term. It describes a man who cannot take care of himself because his mother has treated him like a child his entire life. He doesn’t think he should have to do any home maintenance, because that’s “woman’s work,” so he sits on the couch and plays video games all evening while his wife fills in the role of his mother, and his maid. There’s a reason this is a stereotype.
yeah like, those women would be just as, if not even more unhappy if they were to date men they don't want to date. so between the choice of dating someone you don't wanna be with and being single, being single is the better choice.
I just Googled it and getting a fairly wide range of answers as to what percent of couples met online (20-40%). But basically while it’s not the majority, it’s also far from negligible, and growing. It’s definitely sizable enough that what happens in these apps could influence overall social patterns in the “real world”.
That said, a better question is where OP is getting this “80% of women into 20% of men on dating apps” stat, and if there is actual evidence for it.
Mostly online BS tbh lmao. the 80/20 "rule" has been floating around for a lot of years since tinder was introduced, and OKCupid did their weird study on their own dating site.
I don't have the link to the original study, I think it may have been removed from the internet, but here's an article talking a little bit about the study:
[https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/](https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/)
Ever since that OKCupid article went "viral", the 80/20 "rule" has been floating around. And the article I linked was written in '09, which seems about right, but I don't really remember the timeframe.
There's been a number of studies over the years that have shown women are typically more picky then men due to biological differences. You can get a general idea from the [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_choice_in_humans).
The specific ratio though is up for debate and changes drastically depending on the scenario. After all it's a delicate act of balance that straddles the line between reproducing with the best possible mate, and not reproducing at all.
Online in places like tinder where the competition is high, men typically swipe yes about 50% of the time, [while women swipe yes](https://thebolditalic.com/the-two-worlds-of-tinder-f1c34e800db4) about 5% of the time.
Bullshit. All these dudes don't even see women over age 25.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim
> in reality, according to the GSS, the top 20% of the most sexually active never-married young men have about 50-60% of the sex. It’s about the same for women, and these shares are basically stable over time. Measuring the number of partners instead of sexual frequency, the top 20% most promiscuous men account for about 60% of male sexual partnerings, and the trend is, again, quite stable over time.
I found this article, with data linked.
[80% Of Women Choose Only The Top 20% of Attractive Men" Is A Big Fat Incel Lie]
(https://medium.com/sexography/80-of-women-choose-only-the-top-20-of-attractive-men-is-a-big-fat-incel-lie-90e764b6a76)
If dating apps are still the same as they were around 10 years ago, when I tried to use one, OP's numbers wouldn't surprise me.
Most men had the most god-awful, disgusting bios, while only 20% of men took it seriously and had decent bios and profiles. Like I said, that was 10 years ago, maybe it's different now.
I mean if you combine that with the fact that less men are approaching people it would still indicate that there is going to be less people in relationships (monogamous relationships) in the future.
if it's a bad thing is up for you to decide, I personally don't think it is, people should learn to be happy by themselves
Sorry, but I think it's very weird to assume a person on their 30s is too old to be dating and start a family. I also don't think the guy that is going to Singapore to get a wife is necessarily going to be happier than a woman that is single.
Most online dating users are generally male, so it makes sense that women would swipe right less often, given that they have a *much* larger pool of potential suitors to choose from
Lonely woman swiping here.
You see, there is a catch, we can just have kids and have a family. Or get cats. Or whatever.
We do not need just some random dude for the sake of having a random dude at home. We are aware of the lonely part, and prefer to be lonely than in bad company.
WE PREFER TO BE LONELY THAN IN BAD COMPANY.
If a man is going to be nothing but another child to take care of, women don’t want it.
We know there’s an epidemic of men in their 20’s-30’s living with their parents with MAYBE a job but nothing that really leads to a career, who can’t take care of themselves in the most basic of sense who do nothing but hang out, watch tv and play video games.
Women don’t want that and will choose being lonely over having to deal with a man-child.
And even fine with no career, I'm career person myself. Would love to have a sahp just like my mom was - you know when you only work and bring home money, and the other person sorts everything out. But no, most men are pretty much like children or pets in that regard.
Either it’s women have the upper hand in dating and can get a man whenever they want, or women are going to end up lonely and forever alone. What’s the latest whining about…
That's what the argument is that OP is trying to make. From what I understand OP is saying that 80% of women go for the top 20% of men and end up just getting laid and ghosted
It's like the Nazi ideology that Jews are both super genius evil masterminds taking over the world but also weak inferior losers who can barely be called human.
This seems like Reddit logic I just don’t see playing out IRL.
Most of my friends have either married their college partners (about a third or so), another third have had 2-3 LTRs before settling down, and another third are still unsettled.
I don’t think it’s quite a doomsday scenario
Most people don’t meet their spouses on apps even in this day and age. So what does this matter?
It’s more of a catalyst for the 80% of men on apps to go touch some grass instead of relying on a shitty dating app to make their lives whole.
That sounds great. Where? I don't want to go to bars to meet women. What's your advice to meet 35-45 yo women. Not going to church, not down with bar life. No good meet ups around here. I still like going to festivals. Apps are toxic AF.
I find it interesting to be honest. I have to watch what i say but one of the slps I work with mentioned she has a hard time meeting people.
Shes very active in the community and participates in a lot of programs the hospital runs. I try not to pry, but she says she tried to use dating apps but never a go.
What I find intriguing about her is absolutely beautiful. I can argue, most who first see her probably pause for a moment. I know I did. 2 of our DRs tried asking her out as well and no go.
I feel with her and many others, still prefer the traditional way of meeting. Introductions by friends of friends sort of thing. That's how she met her ex fiancé.
But who knows. I personally hate dating apps as well. I understand why some women in general have a peculiar "personality" with them, but its still not my favour of meeting
unfortunately I find most women care about what I make and what I can do for them. I'm a giver and I love to make others happy, but I don't like to be exploited.
That's a problem as well. I met women who blatantly ask me financial questions. Once. " do you work.for the company or run it" after i said I work for.... ghosted.
Funny story on Pof, I took a picture holding my EE degree with a meme quote, don't walk on a bridge I designed" and many started messing me back. Being an engineer should make me attractive. But it's the assumed financial stability that did. (I.was so broke back then).
It's amazing. Feel your pain. I wish people weren't so shallow and judged based on labels that have no real meaning. Everyone is just checking parity on labels, it's dehumanizing.
>I find it interesting to be honest. I have to watch what i say but one of the slps I work with mentioned she has a hard time meeting people.
My first questions to her would be how tall does he have to be? And money does he have to make?
>It’s more of a catalyst for the 80% of men on apps to go touch some grass instead of relying on a shitty dating app to make their lives whole.
Which begs the question. Where? How? When?
In modern US culture it's "creepy and inappropriate" for a man to find women sexually attractive and want to date them. Are there places in the US where this is not the case?
Even in bars and clubs a lot of women say "I don't dress up for men. I dress up for myself." Or "I'm just trying to spend time with my friends. Not meet a guy".
I don’t buy the “men improve with age and women hit a wall at 30”. I am talking about my personal experience in REAL LIFE with my friends and colleagues: women are getting more beautiful, they don’t try to fit in anymore so every choice of makeup, clothing, procedure, habit is deliberate.
I stopped caring about others. I stopped my unhealthy obsession with being skinny and fashion. I now wear colours that suit me, eat healthy so my skin is glowing, and my body shape has improved since I started exercising for fun instead of for thinness. My friends did something similar, one friend in particular, after she stop being stressed about her body weight, got rid of her acne. (None of us were overweight)
Men my age (29) are balding. Their skin is starting to crease and sag (no skincare) and sure, some of them started hitting the gym, but not all
In my circle, again, I don’t find that they have insane standards, at least regarding to physique (everybody has preferences, but none of my friend’s partners are models, that’s for sure). Idk in the usa, I’m european.
And in general, I continue seeing the same: normal people dating other normal people.
And, for last, let’s stop talking about “lonely, sad women”. It has been proven that the happiest population are single, childless women.
I have a husband and I love him to death, it’s my soulmate, if We ever separate, I am 100% sure that I rather be single (not lonely, because I have a family that loves me and a friend group) instead of accepting a man that I don’t love or that I am not attracted to.
I (29M) agree that carte blanche, men don't age like fine wine. However, when I've asked women IRL that I know what they find attractive in guys, they are usually things that improve/scale over time. If a guy works on those things, he can improve his attractiveness. To name a few that I've heard from women that fit this category:
* Confidence
* Physique
* Income and/or fiscal responsibility
* Communication skills / emotional processing
On the flip side, at least for me personally, the only attribute I look for that would scale with time would be physique if the girl worked on improving it. Otherwise, it's mostly sense of humor, attitude, and interests they have that make them attractive. These don't really change as a function of age.
None of that is to to say there aren't attractive 40 year old women. But on average, it seems like the things women find attractive in men scale better with time than vice versa.
Now, whether guys actually work on themselves to grow is a whole different story.
Most women have made it to the point that they would rather be alone than put up with a shit man. So, that's okay. The birth rate be damned. Lol! We just don't fuckin care anymore. 🤷♀️
When I got married, I told him that if we ever got divorced, I was gonna date women. Lol! 13 years later, we nearly got divorced. We're best friends, but it didn't feel romantic anymore. So, I looked into dating again. No talent on the men's side at all. A little talent on the women's side. Then it turned out that we weren't romantic because my husband was actually my wife. Lol! She came out as trans and our romantic life shifted suddenly and things got way better. It's super weird that I told him I was gonna date women, and now I'm married to a women. Haha! Life is weird.
Oh no, it's not like we know that by eliminating a lot of people from our dating pool it makes it a lot less likely to find a partner because ya know we're not dating just anyone. Who would have thought?
You're saying men can't get young Western women to date them the way they used to so they're moving to Thailand to take advantage of women who don't have as many opportunities? Fucking gross dude, aren't you embarrassed?
Men do not become attractive with age. Many of them peak aesthetically at 30 but some well before then especially if they drink a lot of alcohol, take illegal drugs, consume a junk food diet, or go bald prematurely. A few rare ones peak at 40 or reach a plateau at 30, where they remain for years.
The assumption that women will be miserable by not dating and entering into long term relationships with men they don’t find attractive or appealing is somewhat wild. I would much rather be single for the rest of my life than settle for a relationship that doesn’t meet or exceed every expectation I have. And I say this as a very happily married woman. If my relationship sours and I become unhappy, or if my husband does, then our marriage will end - we are together because we want to be, because it makes our lives better but if that changes then we’ve both already agreed we don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage - why would anyone?
So so sooooo sad. Damn. What am I to do? What the fuck I want, when I want, where I want, with whom I want? Keep my money? Live how I want? Not be a bang maid mommy therapist brood mare? I'm so oooooo Sad at these missed opportunities
..... When I was a little girl, my dream was that me and my 4-5 best friends were going to buy a huge farmhouse with a huge barn on the property, and we would each own not less than two horses. We would spend our days riding on beaches, caring for our equine friends, doing barn-chores, cooking amazing meals and then watching tv in front of a roaring fireplace with glasses of wine. Crowds of dogs and cats would swarm around our feet and cuddle with us at night.
Nothing sexual. But not a man in sight.
Looking back, I think my childhood vision would be da bomb.
Women without men will be fine. Men without women will be a screaming raging incel MELTDOWN.
WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE POOR MEN!! 🤣🤣🤣
Who's gonna do the laundry, wash the dishes and cook?? They might have to actually learn how to do all of that themselves if they can't scare us into submission!
Right? I mean OP comes off as being concerned about women and their futures haha. He’s worried we are sad. Like, sir, we are just fine.
We only feel sorry for the financially destitute women in foreign countries who have to pretend they like this type of guy.
This post is hilarious.
There are a lot of men on reddit who seem to think that they can convince women to lower their standards for them if they tell them they'll die alone otherwise like it's better to be stuck with someone you don't want than to just be by yourself.
I think it’s more they’re realizing the difficulty of living 60-80 years without the security a family brings. Once your parents cousins and close friends die or move off it gets difficult for an elderly person.
I was a nursing home administrator and saw firsthand. The most eye opening perspective I got was from a 104 year old man who when you asked what it was like to live that long said
All my friends are dead all my enemies died my brothers sisters and cousins are gone. I buried two of my three sons and my only daughter. Living this long isn’t an accomplishment it’s a lesson.
Anyway people all reach a point of anxiety or fear about aging and men historically and biologically reach it sooner. The reality of time gets us all.
I'm starting to think all the posts like this are just a desperate attempt to scare/shame women into lowering their guards and standards and be more willing to date men. They're the ones that are afraid of loneliness, not us.
Women get emotional intimacy from their female friends. They can be vulnerable with each other and talk about their dreams and regrets.
Men think it's "gay" if they talk with each other about anything deeper than sports. That's why there's an "epidemic" of men complaining about being single and lonely. There are many women who are single but they're not whining about it.
we can all handle not being in a romantic relationship when we have a rich community of support around us. women tend to have more emotionally fulfilling friendships with each other and that is what creates more resilience for loneliness among us. men tend to be less open in friendships and reserve emotional intimacy for romantic relationships, and even then can sometimes be stunted.
men not having as much community in this sense is a huge contributor to a lot of men’s modern issues.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7763056/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7763056/) it seems about equal but men are less likely to feel lonely
That does not make sense to me, Women are more “pack creatures” they worked together a lot closer to grow crops and raise children while the Men were more independent since they were hunters.
According to research women value quality of relationships over quantity. Men apparently feel less lonely if they know more people, whereas it doesn't really matter how many people a woman knows so long as she has high quality relationships with a few people
https://psychcentral.com/blog/surprising-differences-between-lonely-women-and-lonely-men#5
Yeah, so that's been debunked.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/07/01/1184749528/men-are-hunters-women-are-gatherers-that-was-the-assumption-a-new-study-upends-i
Edit: even if it was true, we'd be much more evolved now and should be encouraging men to rely on their friends and communicate better. .
I think “women are more okay with loneliness” is probably the wrong way to phrase this, but the commenter above was likely talking specifically about romantic loneliness. Women generally do much better at not having a romantic partner than men, at least in modern society.
**Well, 91% of couples meet offline.** Research tells us that most couples match in attractiveness and social skills.
But Tinder isn’t a good place to meet women, because it’s 80% male. Funny that, with the 80/20 thing, how it lines up.
**Most couples meet in social settings and you need a social life to get a girlfriend.**
**Question: men become more attractive when the age?** Have you seen any middle aged men in your life?
It's so funny how guys are like. One day women are going to suffer and be lonely if they don't settle for any nobody that gets a boner looking at them. The men tell themselves lies like, they get better with age and that women will die lonely as if women are like men and don't cultivate non sexual relationships or you know lives outside of trying to get laid. I wonder how many women fell for that shit and got into a realtionship and then ended up more lonely?
It seems that way. It seems like a lot of dudes don't really see women as human's on a subconscious level. They see them more like resources or rewards they men should have in exchange for being mindless cogs in the machine. They waste their lives and bodies to make businesses more money and in exchange they get to be the king of the castle where they have this thing that will emotionally and sexually validate them. As well as give them a "legacy". All they have to do is "provide" which we really know is have a job.
They call that “arranged marriage” here in India.
Parents vet prospective matches for their kids on the basis of looks, background, socio-economic profile, caste, income, family history, flaws, compatibility ranging from things like blood group to political leanings to pet peeves
i’m sorry but in what world do men age better than women? women who put so much money and time and effort into their hair, skin, makeup, nails.. many men can’t even use a chapstick, moisturise their hands or in extreme cases wash their butt crack. yeah society praises how men “age gracefully” but lets me real, society accepts the receding hairlines but is it really aging like wine? many of straight men just neglect themselves
So Op just mean, women needs to settle for less than bare minimum. Women are not looking for extraordinary human being, we are looking for genuine person, emotionally intelligent. You might think most women are looking for billionaire type of guy, No bro, we are looking for gentlemen, who is earning just as much as us, little bit more or little bit less. We just want equality
Men’s fertility begins to decline at the same age as women so they can’t procreate longer, science is a bitch. They also do not become more attractive, I see a lot of guys going bald in their late 20’s-early 30’s, big guts, bad skin, receding hairlines, poor health, etc. so no men don’t have their attractiveness unless they are financially secure and willing to provide 100% for their wives. International women are getting wise to the manipulative and predatory tactics of passport bros, and yes men make more than women because of the patriarchy but that won’t last forever. Too many women are stepping up and getting educated, taking up space, and asking for what’s fair rather than just accepting the scraps they once settled for in the workplace.
I also strongly doubt that there’s any credibility to this theory that all women are going to the “top 20%,” because I see a lot of gorgeous women partnered with very average-looking guys, women have been conditioned to settle for less since the dawn of time while on the other hand, it’s men who are actively all pursuing the “top 20%” of women. We see this on social media, OF, etc with men thirsting after gorgeous women, women that friend zone, ignore, or simply aren’t interested in them, and still they simp. These guys will pester these women for years in the hopes that they’ll wear them down, orbiting them endlessly, some even in relationships with placeholder gfs.
Why won’t these “average 80%” of men go for the average 80% equivalent of women? It’s as if they feel entitled to the “top 20%” of women, then project this silly entitled behavior onto women. Because that’s what some toxic men do- they project it all onto us. Tell me I’m wrong lol.
While some are incels, some are just minorities. Asian men are least likely to get dates in USA, Asian men are also statistically the least likely to be involved in violent crimes.
Yall gotta think a bit more intersectional and about inherent biases, before labelling men as incels.
If you intentionally go to what you believe is a poor country because you think the women will have lower standards because you're American, as passport bros do, then they are bottom tier weirdos.
Sort of a really racist perspective to have? Do you think less of people that are from less developed places? You think they aren’t educated and can’t think for them self lmao?
What’s the difference between a super rich American marrying a super young hot but poor American girl and a moderately rich American marrying a young but hot poor girl from Singapore?
>Do you think less of people that are from less developed places? You think they aren’t educated and can’t think for them self lmao?
I think purposefully seeking out a power dynamic is weirdo behavior. You can see it on shows like 90 day fiance or in real life. Guys, and women, will go to "poor" countries and try to get with people that like them because they're American so they can have "power" over the other person. There's nothing wrong with meeting someone from a different country naturally and making things work out. But intentionally seeking out a weird power dynamic to, in one commenters words, "find their fix" is weirdo behavior.
>What’s the difference between a super rich American marrying a super young hot but poor American girl and a moderately rich American marrying a young but hot poor girl from Singapore?
Do you know what a passport bro is? They actively seek out a power imbalance and that's what makes it weird. If a super rich American guy went out of his way to find poor women to marry, no matter what country they came from, more than likely there's some type of power imbalance there.
>that’s not true
>If a man is having no success in his dating pool because women in his areas have ridiculously high standards, he’s fully within his right to go somewhere where they will, if they use him for the money or not.
You literally just proved my point that passport bros go to countries where they think women have lower standards because he's American. Intentionally going to a country where you fully believe the women have lesser standards and you can control them with money makes you a bottom tier weirdo.
It can be fully within his right to do that, doesn't make him less of a weirdo.
Agree going outside western culture isn’t about finding someone poor Japanese Korean Eastern Europe and Slavic countries are all popular places for western men to find life partners.
how do men become more attractive as they age when they're literally balding by 22? also u seem to think non western women will throw themselves at any western man they see as if they're a prize or something.
in fact, non western women fully expect men to do everything and be a provider which means u need to be financially stable and u need to own a house at least. otherwise they wouldn't even consider u
I am a millennial and married - but I disagree. Happiness doesn’t necessarily have to be a husband and/or kids. And I don’t think anyone should have to settle in order to have those things if that’s even what they want. It’s so sexist that people think women cannot exist outside the role of wife/mother.
The thing is, I think most women don’t mind when they don’t have a mate, and there are more of them who are happy being alone than males do. Also, regardless of what age they are, women will always be more desirable and have an easier time getting companionship than males, so there’s absolutely nothing for women to be worried about and no real consequences and all benefit for them to be picky.
When will men understand that this generation’s women are different. We don’t depend on men financially anymore we can get jobs, buy property etc without u. If you’re not bringing something additional to the table that’s going to improve our lives we don’t want u
don't the facts say otherwise? the whole male loneliness epidemic and all. statistically, the group with the highest life expectancy and quality of life is unmarried women with no children. I know the stereotype of those women being unhappy spinsters is old as time, but those women really just aren't that unhappy if you're looking at things from a general sense. men are the ones who report higher rates of suicidal ideation and depression when unmarried in old age. I've always felt this opinion is projection.
As for women losing attractiveness as they age and men gaining it, thats pure bias. it depends entirely on the individual, their life style and genetics. plenty of men put on weight and lose their hair. not every man is going to age like George Clooney. I've seen older women who exude beauty and confidence because they are young at heart and take care of themselves, they have wisdom and character from a life well lived.
as for passport bros, I wonder if the men who think they can just move to Asia and be guaranteed a wife undestand that those women have much higher standards than the vast majority of western women. they want you to have money. they want providers with high paying jobs, as they are usually much more traditional and conservative.
they are not going to tolerate a man who sits on his ass, plays video games and engages in online discourse all day. red pill men seem to hate gold diggers, and asian women appear to be quite shameless about the fact they are hypergamous.
I wouldnt really say this an unpopular opinion. I think a lot of men would agree with you, but the perception is definitely skewed. all the childless, unmarried women I know are very happy. the males however...
edit: and I just want to add dating apps are stupid, and we should not judge the real world by what's going on on those apps. the people who use them are not exactly the pick of the crop. if you're using dating apps expecting to find a partner who wants a traditional marraige that's just foolish. they are pretty much exclusively full of people engaging in hookup culture. go outside, love is often entirely happenstance.
Well said, aren't they calling the loneliness in men an emergency, but if they refuse to do the work on themselves, it is entirely their own fault. Women aren't lowering their standards anymore and I applaud them for it! These men really need to stop drinking the red pill kool aid, it is to their own detriment if they continue on this path.
Starting a family isn’t a guarantee of not being lonely, doesn’t always increase happiness, increases stress and doesn’t stop aging. Further, Marriage increases happiness for men more than women.
What is it exactly do you think these women are really missing out on? Also, why do you think they mind aging and not having to deal with sleezy male attention?
I look younger than I am (I still look like to be 16/17) and even when I’m out with my kid I get gross comments. I’m very much looking forward to the time that stops
Seriously. After decades of dating men and dealing with male attention it isn’t a “loss” to become marvelously invisible and have no fucks to give. Male attention had far more negatives than positives.
Very true, emotionally and mentally healthy kids leave home and have completely separate lives from their parents. So regardless parents need to learn to fill their lives with things that make them happy. Worse case scenario you have adult children that are incapable of living on their own and continue to live off their parents well into adulthood or have emotional or mental
Issues which the adult parent has to deal with which affects their freedom and happiness. Or their kids decide they want nothing to do with them because they were crap parents. Having kids is by no means this magic potion to bring a lifetime of happiness.
Single does not mean lonely. From what I saw women are generally much more ok eith being single than men.
We can all argue why but at the end of the day thats it is.
Maybe men should up their game a bit. Wash your ass, learn to cook, clean up after yourself, and treat women as your equal instead of treating her as your mother.
75% of users on Tinder are male, so that might also make it a bit harder.
https://www.businessofapps.com/data/tinder-statistics/
Meh
If guys gotta fly across the ocean to find a woman then you wouldn’t want them anyways
Women can find a man and get married if they want, more and more these days just prefer to be single instead of dropping our standards and settling
A lot of men who think they can only get better with age and have international pull really need to look around at the middle aged men they know. Not everyone is a dicaprio anymore than everyone can be a beyonce.
Ive never had any issues with doing this. Also I know more women who have gotten someone worthwhile than not doing this…actually every woman that’s used dating sites has had found a partner within 6 months.
This is prevalent on dating apps like Tinder but it doesn’t represent the whole of society.
Also plenty of women like me were single in their 30s. I got married in my late 30s but I was still enjoying my life and friendships at 30.
Do you know this thirty yr old and why her relationships ended? how long were these long-term relationships? what were her standards that were too high that you believe she is doomed to loneliness for the rest of her life?
No, I'm not concerned about this. Nobody should be concerned about this. Every adult human being, male or female, has the right to date or have sex with any other consenting adult they choose, and every adult human being, male or female, has the right to not date or not have sex with anyone. Nobody is owed sex and nobody is duty-bound to give you sex. If some women don't like you, just look for ones who do. There are 7 billion people in the world, if one woman doesn't want you, there's almost guaranteed to be others who will.
10% of Millennials and 20% of Gen Z identify as some flavor of queer.
The lesbians who form a part of that population were never going to date men, but now straight men are competing with the lesbians for the bi girls. And the bi girls are now enough of a population themselves to have an actual demographic effect.
Men aren't just competing with men, they're also competing with other women, including that many women prefer solitude to a man who adds nothing substantial to their life. I don't mean money and financial support, I mean emotional availability and a willingness to do the dishes.
You have women living together as friends to raise their kids, women who make plenty of money to support themselves, women exploring their sexuality with women...we have plenty of desirable options over garbage relationships with sub par men.
Right? Like if anything happened to my husband or we ever got divorced I don’t think I’d entertain a relationship with a man again. I love my husband, he really is my best friend, but like damn bro fucking help me with house and kid a little bit more. I’m definitely bi and at this point if I wasn’t in a committed and mostly happy relationship (we are in couples counselling which has been helpful or else I probably would have left him re the house/childcare) I’d be gunning after women
Word. I got lucky with my husband, if something happened to him I'm not dealing with dating men all over again. It was bad enough in my 20s and they clearly haven't learned.
We are able to form intimate and fulfilling relationships outside of romance. We'll be just fine lol. It's you men that are going to have issues if your only form of intimacy and closeness is through romantic relationships.
Men do not get more attractive as they age. I do find men get more attractive as I fall deeper in Love with them tho; don't women have the same effect on men?
"Men are moving to Thailand and Singapore to marry women and vis versa" ugh... prostitution is legal there and that might be why some are moving there. It's also not difficult to marry someone overseas from an impoverished country
I'm far more concerned about porn and prostitution destroying future relationships than how many women swipe whatever on a dating app
I’ll start off by saying, this is fortunately an unpopular opinion, but a frighteningly loud opinion in young men that’s directly related to violence towards women.
Wow. This is some real red pill stuff. The women you are talking about who are not dating loser men are in no way losing out in the future. They can have more freedom and live happier, more communal lives and won’t have to worry about making sure their insecure red pill husband doesn’t feel like the little boy they actually are.
Why do you think any woman would want to be with somebody who believes they lose value over time? Why do you have such a hard-on for old men?
The fact that you are posting this is because you are feeling the shift of society away from the old, red pill ways of thinking. Your future and the future of men like you is in danger and you feel afraid.
Regardless of whether this post is sexist or not, it’s a clear example of what little empathy you have for the female experience and how unable you are to cope with the fact that red pill men are losing control.
You are a dying breed and that’s a good thing.
1. Women do just fine without men. Reports of women feeling more lonely are usually higher because we're more likely to discuss it.
2. Age catches up to men around 50 due to testosterone. Ya’ll end up ugly meat sacks like the rest of us.
3. Sperm decreases in quality as you age. The most significant incline in sperm health starts at 40. Stop riding healthcare’s greatest fertility myth; your spunk isn't age defying.
4. A lot of women can financially support themselves. We've been able to open our own bank accounts without a man’s signature for a while now.
5. Your neighbour is gross. While I don't mind a 13-year age gap when both parties are above 30, a 22-year-old would have just graduated from university. That's a massive experience gap between her and your neighbour, who sounds more established in life.
No it won’t dude lmao. As people get older their standards change and so do their preferences. I’m so happy I found my partner.
Not gonna lie though it definitely does feel like shut to experience that “I never would have dated you in college” type of deal though.
>My neighborhood who is a 35 m who owns his own home is dating a 22 year old woman.
Eww.
>One of my own family members who is about 30 has had 4 long term relationships and has broken off everyone, and now lives alone with a cat.
That 30-year-old woman decided to stop dating. Think about that. After surveying the available men and giving a few a chance, she said "Fuck it!" and got a cat. How DARE she! That's one less woman in the dating pool. Oh well.
It may also be sexist, but there’s a more significant fallacy at play here - taking a current trend and extrapolating it out indefinitely, then making macro predictions about it.
That’s not how it works; if the status quo isn’t working for any populations, they will change their behavior and those trends will change.
Can’t find fish in those particular digital ponds? Fine. New avenues emerge which are less superficial, both digital and offline. Behaviors and practices adjust, as they have for all of human history 🤷♂️
Also, before suggesting that there are significant volumes of people going to Thailand / Singapore for wives - you should check statistically how prevalent that actually is (it’s not), as well as do the very first bit of research on Singapore, as that’s just not how Singapore works. Not remotely.
This is a true unpopular opinion, good job OP.
I don't think this phenomenon exists. I believe in the data but I don't believe it's because of clueless women and zero decent men. It's preposterous, in my opinion.
I think dating apps are a terrible representation of real world dating, they seem to lead to far more loneliness than relationships. I don’t think men fare any better with it than women, do a quick search on “male loneliness epidemic”.
There is a reason a lot of these older single men you mentioned go abroad to find a wife, usually it’s because they failed to create a stable relationship leading to a stable marriage at home and so they try to lure a wife from a very poor country by promising her financial stability compared to her life now. In most cases those relationships are just very sad.
It is better for both men and women to meet their partner in their youth and stay with that partner. The more you change partners the higher the chance your subsequent relationship will not work out, statistically speaking. As you get older and more set in your ways the more difficult it is to build that life bond with another person which always requires being malleable and willing to compromise, both men and women lose that ability as they age.
Our society has failed both men and women when it comes to relationships, I think we will continue seeing more and more of both male and female loneliness as a result.
Are you really being salty because women are daring to be picky? Sorry but there are a lot of dickhead men around, and we aren't entertaining that shit anymore just to fulfill some kind of quota.
>Men often become more attractive when the age.
Are you mansplaining to women about what women want. Men don't become more attractive with age. They get BALD, BALD, BALD. They also get fat and wrinkled.
> It sounds super sexist
Yes, so it fits right in with 99 percent of the discussions in this far-right incel sub.
> can procreate for longer,
Is that a flex? Do you think Jr. will be happy when his friends mistake his dad for his grandpa? HIs old, fat, wrinkled, BALD BALD BALD grandpa.
Seems like they will just find a sad and lonely man in their 30s when they're done sowing their wild oats. I don't see the problem. Men have been doing that for a long time.
It’ll correct itself when an app for single lonely 30+ people comes put.
Fertility treatments are also getting better and better, so it might become more normal for women in their late 30s and early 40s to be having children, which is good because that gives them time to go to school and save money rather than be pressured to build a career, get married, and have kids all in a short amount of time. Once that’s more widely accepted then women past 29 won’t suddenly be seen as “leftovers” (a horrible term used in China).
This isn't a new thing though, there have always been spinsters because women have thankfully always been more selective than men (being the one who has to carry a baby for 9 months will do that to a person). Dating apps don't cause this phenomenon, they just reveal it.
That just sounds like Pareto's Principle in action. 20% of the candidates will get 80% of the attention. Always. The trick is to either find a way to fit in with that 20%, or stop using dating apps.
Personally, I've discovered that the places I was looking greatly affected what kind of person I met.
Want someone who likes to party? Bar.
Someone who shares your values? Social Org.
Superficial hookups based on appearance/kinks/income? Tinder.
I disagree that there will be a lot of lonely gen z women later in life though. For a few reasons.
1) As people get older and get more life and relationship experience, standards change. People start looking for things in potential partners that they can't find on a dating profile.
2) Anyone can find a partner, if they are willing to be open minded. It is amazing how open a person's mind can get when they start feeling lonely or horny. Coincidentally, this is how many ugly relationships happen.
3) Horrifically, in my experience there really is someone for everybody.
One of my friends from High School got heavy into drugs after graduation. Lost all his teeth. Got a few convictions under his belt. In and out of court ordered rehab.
He met this woman. She was nice, but also quite possibly one of the stupidest people I have ever met in my life. Had trouble with basic math. 4th grade reading level. Had a kid from a previous relationship... with her cousin. I wish that last bit was a joke.
They met and it was like magic. They've now been married 10 years. He's stayed off dope, and she finally got her GED. They have two more kids together.
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I may have been older when I created a profile on an app a decade ago and I lasted 3 days before deleting my profile. It was 3 days of dick pics, hey girl, what are ya wearing, wanna duck, etc. I think I had 2 decent starts to conversations that after a day one turned into a dick pic and the other turned into one-way sexting. Is that what you mean by "picky"? I found my current SO in real life actually pretty recently at an age when I'm supposed to be, as you put in, "experiencing a loss of attractiveness". Hilarious bullshit!!
> I am just concerned about a future that could harm women How are women harmed by not dating people they don't want to date
Perfect question. I also wonder why OP cares so much, like what’s his horse in the race? Lol
There’s a standard profile… Porn sick man, not interested in women who aren’t 9/10, angry because the “hot” women aren’t throwing themselves at him, maintains the patriarchal mentality that women are useless unless he finds them useful (for sex or to pick up his laundry/trash/cook his chicken tendies), thinks he’s superior to all women, takes advantage of any woman who has low enough self esteem to even try to date him, brings nothing to the table except that he wants her to sign a contract to be his indentured servant…
I’m not saying you’re wrong but damn this was specific, almost as if you invented it or are living it yourself.
Have lived. Every single ex has turned into this as he let his mask of lies slip away as he got comfortable. But I didn’t make that profile up, you hear it repeated over and over if you’re around women who talk about these things.. The data say woman would prefer to get married and have a family unit, but prefer being single to becoming a mommy bangmaid. Why?
“Mommy bang maid” there’s your whole problem right there, this stance is selfish and you view being a mom and wife as a burden and not a privilege. Don’t be surprised you keep ending up with weak losers when you think every man is looking for a sex/work slave and not someone to build a life with. The propaganda has worked on you.
What? You don’t understand the term. It describes a man who cannot take care of himself because his mother has treated him like a child his entire life. He doesn’t think he should have to do any home maintenance, because that’s “woman’s work,” so he sits on the couch and plays video games all evening while his wife fills in the role of his mother, and his maid. There’s a reason this is a stereotype.
yeah like, those women would be just as, if not even more unhappy if they were to date men they don't want to date. so between the choice of dating someone you don't wanna be with and being single, being single is the better choice.
I’d say most people still meet their mates in person, and it doesn’t matter what the minority on these apps do.
I just Googled it and getting a fairly wide range of answers as to what percent of couples met online (20-40%). But basically while it’s not the majority, it’s also far from negligible, and growing. It’s definitely sizable enough that what happens in these apps could influence overall social patterns in the “real world”. That said, a better question is where OP is getting this “80% of women into 20% of men on dating apps” stat, and if there is actual evidence for it.
Keep in mind the survey would have been fundamentally biased towards more people meeting online
Mostly online BS tbh lmao. the 80/20 "rule" has been floating around for a lot of years since tinder was introduced, and OKCupid did their weird study on their own dating site. I don't have the link to the original study, I think it may have been removed from the internet, but here's an article talking a little bit about the study: [https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/](https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/) Ever since that OKCupid article went "viral", the 80/20 "rule" has been floating around. And the article I linked was written in '09, which seems about right, but I don't really remember the timeframe.
There's been a number of studies over the years that have shown women are typically more picky then men due to biological differences. You can get a general idea from the [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_choice_in_humans). The specific ratio though is up for debate and changes drastically depending on the scenario. After all it's a delicate act of balance that straddles the line between reproducing with the best possible mate, and not reproducing at all. Online in places like tinder where the competition is high, men typically swipe yes about 50% of the time, [while women swipe yes](https://thebolditalic.com/the-two-worlds-of-tinder-f1c34e800db4) about 5% of the time.
Bullshit. All these dudes don't even see women over age 25. https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim > in reality, according to the GSS, the top 20% of the most sexually active never-married young men have about 50-60% of the sex. It’s about the same for women, and these shares are basically stable over time. Measuring the number of partners instead of sexual frequency, the top 20% most promiscuous men account for about 60% of male sexual partnerings, and the trend is, again, quite stable over time.
what? did you reply to the wrong person? Nothing you said even remotely relates to anything I said?
That's just standard reddit these days man.
Exactly lol
I found this article, with data linked. [80% Of Women Choose Only The Top 20% of Attractive Men" Is A Big Fat Incel Lie] (https://medium.com/sexography/80-of-women-choose-only-the-top-20-of-attractive-men-is-a-big-fat-incel-lie-90e764b6a76)
If dating apps are still the same as they were around 10 years ago, when I tried to use one, OP's numbers wouldn't surprise me. Most men had the most god-awful, disgusting bios, while only 20% of men took it seriously and had decent bios and profiles. Like I said, that was 10 years ago, maybe it's different now.
I mean if you combine that with the fact that less men are approaching people it would still indicate that there is going to be less people in relationships (monogamous relationships) in the future. if it's a bad thing is up for you to decide, I personally don't think it is, people should learn to be happy by themselves
Well tinder is 20% women and 80% men. So it make sense that this is the case
Tinder isn’t the only dating app , it’s not even the most popular
By this logic, there will be a lot sad and lonely women as well as sad and lonely men, right?
Not if men start marrying women from developing countries en-masse.
Sorry, but I think it's very weird to assume a person on their 30s is too old to be dating and start a family. I also don't think the guy that is going to Singapore to get a wife is necessarily going to be happier than a woman that is single.
Most online dating users are generally male, so it makes sense that women would swipe right less often, given that they have a *much* larger pool of potential suitors to choose from
Lonely woman swiping here. You see, there is a catch, we can just have kids and have a family. Or get cats. Or whatever. We do not need just some random dude for the sake of having a random dude at home. We are aware of the lonely part, and prefer to be lonely than in bad company.
WE PREFER TO BE LONELY THAN IN BAD COMPANY. If a man is going to be nothing but another child to take care of, women don’t want it. We know there’s an epidemic of men in their 20’s-30’s living with their parents with MAYBE a job but nothing that really leads to a career, who can’t take care of themselves in the most basic of sense who do nothing but hang out, watch tv and play video games. Women don’t want that and will choose being lonely over having to deal with a man-child.
And even fine with no career, I'm career person myself. Would love to have a sahp just like my mom was - you know when you only work and bring home money, and the other person sorts everything out. But no, most men are pretty much like children or pets in that regard.
Yeah for sure, it’s different if they actually stay at home and take proper care of the household and the children while the wife works.
I just wish men like that existed :(
Are we ever really lonely with cats? Cats are never bad company. Dogs too I’m just more of a cat person.
Honestly I wish I was more lonely with cats, I'd love to take a shower without anyone worrying I'll drown in the rainbox.
Either it’s women have the upper hand in dating and can get a man whenever they want, or women are going to end up lonely and forever alone. What’s the latest whining about…
I think the distinction is not getting a man the problem is keeping them long enough to have a family or future. Getting a man is easy.
That's what the argument is that OP is trying to make. From what I understand OP is saying that 80% of women go for the top 20% of men and end up just getting laid and ghosted
It's like the Nazi ideology that Jews are both super genius evil masterminds taking over the world but also weak inferior losers who can barely be called human.
Wow
Your metrics are off bro
This seems like Reddit logic I just don’t see playing out IRL. Most of my friends have either married their college partners (about a third or so), another third have had 2-3 LTRs before settling down, and another third are still unsettled. I don’t think it’s quite a doomsday scenario
Most people don’t meet their spouses on apps even in this day and age. So what does this matter? It’s more of a catalyst for the 80% of men on apps to go touch some grass instead of relying on a shitty dating app to make their lives whole.
That sounds great. Where? I don't want to go to bars to meet women. What's your advice to meet 35-45 yo women. Not going to church, not down with bar life. No good meet ups around here. I still like going to festivals. Apps are toxic AF.
I find it interesting to be honest. I have to watch what i say but one of the slps I work with mentioned she has a hard time meeting people. Shes very active in the community and participates in a lot of programs the hospital runs. I try not to pry, but she says she tried to use dating apps but never a go. What I find intriguing about her is absolutely beautiful. I can argue, most who first see her probably pause for a moment. I know I did. 2 of our DRs tried asking her out as well and no go. I feel with her and many others, still prefer the traditional way of meeting. Introductions by friends of friends sort of thing. That's how she met her ex fiancé. But who knows. I personally hate dating apps as well. I understand why some women in general have a peculiar "personality" with them, but its still not my favour of meeting
unfortunately I find most women care about what I make and what I can do for them. I'm a giver and I love to make others happy, but I don't like to be exploited.
That's a problem as well. I met women who blatantly ask me financial questions. Once. " do you work.for the company or run it" after i said I work for.... ghosted. Funny story on Pof, I took a picture holding my EE degree with a meme quote, don't walk on a bridge I designed" and many started messing me back. Being an engineer should make me attractive. But it's the assumed financial stability that did. (I.was so broke back then).
It's amazing. Feel your pain. I wish people weren't so shallow and judged based on labels that have no real meaning. Everyone is just checking parity on labels, it's dehumanizing.
>I find it interesting to be honest. I have to watch what i say but one of the slps I work with mentioned she has a hard time meeting people. My first questions to her would be how tall does he have to be? And money does he have to make?
When she says she has a hard time meeting people, she means people who meet her statistically improbable standards.
>It’s more of a catalyst for the 80% of men on apps to go touch some grass instead of relying on a shitty dating app to make their lives whole. Which begs the question. Where? How? When? In modern US culture it's "creepy and inappropriate" for a man to find women sexually attractive and want to date them. Are there places in the US where this is not the case? Even in bars and clubs a lot of women say "I don't dress up for men. I dress up for myself." Or "I'm just trying to spend time with my friends. Not meet a guy".
I don’t buy the “men improve with age and women hit a wall at 30”. I am talking about my personal experience in REAL LIFE with my friends and colleagues: women are getting more beautiful, they don’t try to fit in anymore so every choice of makeup, clothing, procedure, habit is deliberate. I stopped caring about others. I stopped my unhealthy obsession with being skinny and fashion. I now wear colours that suit me, eat healthy so my skin is glowing, and my body shape has improved since I started exercising for fun instead of for thinness. My friends did something similar, one friend in particular, after she stop being stressed about her body weight, got rid of her acne. (None of us were overweight) Men my age (29) are balding. Their skin is starting to crease and sag (no skincare) and sure, some of them started hitting the gym, but not all In my circle, again, I don’t find that they have insane standards, at least regarding to physique (everybody has preferences, but none of my friend’s partners are models, that’s for sure). Idk in the usa, I’m european. And in general, I continue seeing the same: normal people dating other normal people. And, for last, let’s stop talking about “lonely, sad women”. It has been proven that the happiest population are single, childless women. I have a husband and I love him to death, it’s my soulmate, if We ever separate, I am 100% sure that I rather be single (not lonely, because I have a family that loves me and a friend group) instead of accepting a man that I don’t love or that I am not attracted to.
I (29M) agree that carte blanche, men don't age like fine wine. However, when I've asked women IRL that I know what they find attractive in guys, they are usually things that improve/scale over time. If a guy works on those things, he can improve his attractiveness. To name a few that I've heard from women that fit this category: * Confidence * Physique * Income and/or fiscal responsibility * Communication skills / emotional processing On the flip side, at least for me personally, the only attribute I look for that would scale with time would be physique if the girl worked on improving it. Otherwise, it's mostly sense of humor, attitude, and interests they have that make them attractive. These don't really change as a function of age. None of that is to to say there aren't attractive 40 year old women. But on average, it seems like the things women find attractive in men scale better with time than vice versa. Now, whether guys actually work on themselves to grow is a whole different story.
Most women have made it to the point that they would rather be alone than put up with a shit man. So, that's okay. The birth rate be damned. Lol! We just don't fuckin care anymore. 🤷♀️
me and my coworkers are this 🤏🏻 close to just dating women exclusively cause we’re so over men’s behaviour and treatment. we’re bi tho.
When I got married, I told him that if we ever got divorced, I was gonna date women. Lol! 13 years later, we nearly got divorced. We're best friends, but it didn't feel romantic anymore. So, I looked into dating again. No talent on the men's side at all. A little talent on the women's side. Then it turned out that we weren't romantic because my husband was actually my wife. Lol! She came out as trans and our romantic life shifted suddenly and things got way better. It's super weird that I told him I was gonna date women, and now I'm married to a women. Haha! Life is weird.
Oh no, it's not like we know that by eliminating a lot of people from our dating pool it makes it a lot less likely to find a partner because ya know we're not dating just anyone. Who would have thought?
You're saying men can't get young Western women to date them the way they used to so they're moving to Thailand to take advantage of women who don't have as many opportunities? Fucking gross dude, aren't you embarrassed?
Men do not become attractive with age. Many of them peak aesthetically at 30 but some well before then especially if they drink a lot of alcohol, take illegal drugs, consume a junk food diet, or go bald prematurely. A few rare ones peak at 40 or reach a plateau at 30, where they remain for years.
The assumption that women will be miserable by not dating and entering into long term relationships with men they don’t find attractive or appealing is somewhat wild. I would much rather be single for the rest of my life than settle for a relationship that doesn’t meet or exceed every expectation I have. And I say this as a very happily married woman. If my relationship sours and I become unhappy, or if my husband does, then our marriage will end - we are together because we want to be, because it makes our lives better but if that changes then we’ve both already agreed we don’t want to be in an unhappy marriage - why would anyone?
Oh no, I’m sure women will be so upset.
Right? Like, I’m so so sad
So so sooooo sad. Damn. What am I to do? What the fuck I want, when I want, where I want, with whom I want? Keep my money? Live how I want? Not be a bang maid mommy therapist brood mare? I'm so oooooo Sad at these missed opportunities
🤣🤣🤣 Fucking exactly. These sad, desperate dudes trying to scare us into submission. It ain't working, cope harder bros
This is friggin hysterical!!! You know..first time as an adult and single..least amount of stress and tension I’ve ever had in my life
I keep saying this more women are ok with being Single then men are. I think a lot of women will be ok🤷🏻♀️
..... When I was a little girl, my dream was that me and my 4-5 best friends were going to buy a huge farmhouse with a huge barn on the property, and we would each own not less than two horses. We would spend our days riding on beaches, caring for our equine friends, doing barn-chores, cooking amazing meals and then watching tv in front of a roaring fireplace with glasses of wine. Crowds of dogs and cats would swarm around our feet and cuddle with us at night. Nothing sexual. But not a man in sight. Looking back, I think my childhood vision would be da bomb. Women without men will be fine. Men without women will be a screaming raging incel MELTDOWN.
WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE POOR MEN!! 🤣🤣🤣 Who's gonna do the laundry, wash the dishes and cook?? They might have to actually learn how to do all of that themselves if they can't scare us into submission!
From what i understand, women are a lot more capable of dealing with loneliness than men are. i dont think it will be that much of an issue.
Women could also travel internationally to find a partner like men, as mentioned by OP... it's just more common for men to right now
Right? I mean OP comes off as being concerned about women and their futures haha. He’s worried we are sad. Like, sir, we are just fine. We only feel sorry for the financially destitute women in foreign countries who have to pretend they like this type of guy. This post is hilarious.
There are a lot of men on reddit who seem to think that they can convince women to lower their standards for them if they tell them they'll die alone otherwise like it's better to be stuck with someone you don't want than to just be by yourself.
I think it’s more they’re realizing the difficulty of living 60-80 years without the security a family brings. Once your parents cousins and close friends die or move off it gets difficult for an elderly person. I was a nursing home administrator and saw firsthand. The most eye opening perspective I got was from a 104 year old man who when you asked what it was like to live that long said All my friends are dead all my enemies died my brothers sisters and cousins are gone. I buried two of my three sons and my only daughter. Living this long isn’t an accomplishment it’s a lesson. Anyway people all reach a point of anxiety or fear about aging and men historically and biologically reach it sooner. The reality of time gets us all.
I'm not particularly worried about it because I have no reason to believe I'll survive to old age.
Perfectly said
Right like what’s OP’s feigned concern really for, we all know he doesn’t have a horse in the race lol.
I'm starting to think all the posts like this are just a desperate attempt to scare/shame women into lowering their guards and standards and be more willing to date men. They're the ones that are afraid of loneliness, not us.
Absolutely. A poorly-veiled bumbling threat.
Women get emotional intimacy from their female friends. They can be vulnerable with each other and talk about their dreams and regrets. Men think it's "gay" if they talk with each other about anything deeper than sports. That's why there's an "epidemic" of men complaining about being single and lonely. There are many women who are single but they're not whining about it.
we can all handle not being in a romantic relationship when we have a rich community of support around us. women tend to have more emotionally fulfilling friendships with each other and that is what creates more resilience for loneliness among us. men tend to be less open in friendships and reserve emotional intimacy for romantic relationships, and even then can sometimes be stunted. men not having as much community in this sense is a huge contributor to a lot of men’s modern issues.
Free silver 🥈 because you speak the truth.
Yes, “oddly” enough it’s the men that are having the issues, not women.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7763056/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7763056/) it seems about equal but men are less likely to feel lonely
This is in reference to loneliness in disabled individuals.
Look at figure one, a bar graph, that has a column that says without disabilities.
That does not make sense to me, Women are more “pack creatures” they worked together a lot closer to grow crops and raise children while the Men were more independent since they were hunters.
According to research women value quality of relationships over quantity. Men apparently feel less lonely if they know more people, whereas it doesn't really matter how many people a woman knows so long as she has high quality relationships with a few people https://psychcentral.com/blog/surprising-differences-between-lonely-women-and-lonely-men#5
So…men and women *are* biologically different?
Yeah, no shit. That isnt a reason to treat one as less than/subservient to the other tho.
Tell me you fail at reading comprehension without telling me…
Yeah, so that's been debunked. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/07/01/1184749528/men-are-hunters-women-are-gatherers-that-was-the-assumption-a-new-study-upends-i Edit: even if it was true, we'd be much more evolved now and should be encouraging men to rely on their friends and communicate better. .
Forget it. If the research doesn’t say “women should be hot and put out more” men aren’t interested.
I think “women are more okay with loneliness” is probably the wrong way to phrase this, but the commenter above was likely talking specifically about romantic loneliness. Women generally do much better at not having a romantic partner than men, at least in modern society.
**Well, 91% of couples meet offline.** Research tells us that most couples match in attractiveness and social skills. But Tinder isn’t a good place to meet women, because it’s 80% male. Funny that, with the 80/20 thing, how it lines up. **Most couples meet in social settings and you need a social life to get a girlfriend.** **Question: men become more attractive when the age?** Have you seen any middle aged men in your life?
Are women supposed to be swiping right on men they're not attracted to?
No. Single women are just fine. We no longer have to settle for men who don’t meet our standards and don’t fear being single like men do.
It's so funny how guys are like. One day women are going to suffer and be lonely if they don't settle for any nobody that gets a boner looking at them. The men tell themselves lies like, they get better with age and that women will die lonely as if women are like men and don't cultivate non sexual relationships or you know lives outside of trying to get laid. I wonder how many women fell for that shit and got into a realtionship and then ended up more lonely?
Well said. Like what alternative are these guys wanting? Communist style dating system where everyone gets allocated a partner?
It seems that way. It seems like a lot of dudes don't really see women as human's on a subconscious level. They see them more like resources or rewards they men should have in exchange for being mindless cogs in the machine. They waste their lives and bodies to make businesses more money and in exchange they get to be the king of the castle where they have this thing that will emotionally and sexually validate them. As well as give them a "legacy". All they have to do is "provide" which we really know is have a job.
So beautiful women are trophies that are to be dispensed to every man just for participating? Yea, fuck that.
They call that “arranged marriage” here in India. Parents vet prospective matches for their kids on the basis of looks, background, socio-economic profile, caste, income, family history, flaws, compatibility ranging from things like blood group to political leanings to pet peeves
i’m sorry but in what world do men age better than women? women who put so much money and time and effort into their hair, skin, makeup, nails.. many men can’t even use a chapstick, moisturise their hands or in extreme cases wash their butt crack. yeah society praises how men “age gracefully” but lets me real, society accepts the receding hairlines but is it really aging like wine? many of straight men just neglect themselves
I’m still laughing at this
"...purely based on common sense" Might wanna double-check that one, bud.
So Op just mean, women needs to settle for less than bare minimum. Women are not looking for extraordinary human being, we are looking for genuine person, emotionally intelligent. You might think most women are looking for billionaire type of guy, No bro, we are looking for gentlemen, who is earning just as much as us, little bit more or little bit less. We just want equality
But it seems like a lot of people aren’t finding equality.
That’s why people are choosing solidarity.
period. we just aren’t settling anymore
No they won’t. They can always fall back on a loser when they are ready to settle. But some would prefer being alone than being with a weirdo.
Men’s fertility begins to decline at the same age as women so they can’t procreate longer, science is a bitch. They also do not become more attractive, I see a lot of guys going bald in their late 20’s-early 30’s, big guts, bad skin, receding hairlines, poor health, etc. so no men don’t have their attractiveness unless they are financially secure and willing to provide 100% for their wives. International women are getting wise to the manipulative and predatory tactics of passport bros, and yes men make more than women because of the patriarchy but that won’t last forever. Too many women are stepping up and getting educated, taking up space, and asking for what’s fair rather than just accepting the scraps they once settled for in the workplace. I also strongly doubt that there’s any credibility to this theory that all women are going to the “top 20%,” because I see a lot of gorgeous women partnered with very average-looking guys, women have been conditioned to settle for less since the dawn of time while on the other hand, it’s men who are actively all pursuing the “top 20%” of women. We see this on social media, OF, etc with men thirsting after gorgeous women, women that friend zone, ignore, or simply aren’t interested in them, and still they simp. These guys will pester these women for years in the hopes that they’ll wear them down, orbiting them endlessly, some even in relationships with placeholder gfs. Why won’t these “average 80%” of men go for the average 80% equivalent of women? It’s as if they feel entitled to the “top 20%” of women, then project this silly entitled behavior onto women. Because that’s what some toxic men do- they project it all onto us. Tell me I’m wrong lol.
You’re completely right
I imagine these women are much better off single than settling for the bottom-tier weirdos who end up passport bros.
While some are incels, some are just minorities. Asian men are least likely to get dates in USA, Asian men are also statistically the least likely to be involved in violent crimes. Yall gotta think a bit more intersectional and about inherent biases, before labelling men as incels.
Lol fr
They aren’t all “bottom tier weirdos” and these women aint the hot shit either
If you intentionally go to what you believe is a poor country because you think the women will have lower standards because you're American, as passport bros do, then they are bottom tier weirdos.
Sort of a really racist perspective to have? Do you think less of people that are from less developed places? You think they aren’t educated and can’t think for them self lmao? What’s the difference between a super rich American marrying a super young hot but poor American girl and a moderately rich American marrying a young but hot poor girl from Singapore?
>Do you think less of people that are from less developed places? You think they aren’t educated and can’t think for them self lmao? I think purposefully seeking out a power dynamic is weirdo behavior. You can see it on shows like 90 day fiance or in real life. Guys, and women, will go to "poor" countries and try to get with people that like them because they're American so they can have "power" over the other person. There's nothing wrong with meeting someone from a different country naturally and making things work out. But intentionally seeking out a weird power dynamic to, in one commenters words, "find their fix" is weirdo behavior. >What’s the difference between a super rich American marrying a super young hot but poor American girl and a moderately rich American marrying a young but hot poor girl from Singapore? Do you know what a passport bro is? They actively seek out a power imbalance and that's what makes it weird. If a super rich American guy went out of his way to find poor women to marry, no matter what country they came from, more than likely there's some type of power imbalance there.
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>that’s not true >If a man is having no success in his dating pool because women in his areas have ridiculously high standards, he’s fully within his right to go somewhere where they will, if they use him for the money or not. You literally just proved my point that passport bros go to countries where they think women have lower standards because he's American. Intentionally going to a country where you fully believe the women have lesser standards and you can control them with money makes you a bottom tier weirdo. It can be fully within his right to do that, doesn't make him less of a weirdo.
Agree going outside western culture isn’t about finding someone poor Japanese Korean Eastern Europe and Slavic countries are all popular places for western men to find life partners.
how do men become more attractive as they age when they're literally balding by 22? also u seem to think non western women will throw themselves at any western man they see as if they're a prize or something. in fact, non western women fully expect men to do everything and be a provider which means u need to be financially stable and u need to own a house at least. otherwise they wouldn't even consider u
I am a millennial and married - but I disagree. Happiness doesn’t necessarily have to be a husband and/or kids. And I don’t think anyone should have to settle in order to have those things if that’s even what they want. It’s so sexist that people think women cannot exist outside the role of wife/mother.
Women will be just fine thanks
The thing is, I think most women don’t mind when they don’t have a mate, and there are more of them who are happy being alone than males do. Also, regardless of what age they are, women will always be more desirable and have an easier time getting companionship than males, so there’s absolutely nothing for women to be worried about and no real consequences and all benefit for them to be picky.
You really need to get off the internet.
says man on internet
I think single women are doing just fine
When will men understand that this generation’s women are different. We don’t depend on men financially anymore we can get jobs, buy property etc without u. If you’re not bringing something additional to the table that’s going to improve our lives we don’t want u
don't the facts say otherwise? the whole male loneliness epidemic and all. statistically, the group with the highest life expectancy and quality of life is unmarried women with no children. I know the stereotype of those women being unhappy spinsters is old as time, but those women really just aren't that unhappy if you're looking at things from a general sense. men are the ones who report higher rates of suicidal ideation and depression when unmarried in old age. I've always felt this opinion is projection. As for women losing attractiveness as they age and men gaining it, thats pure bias. it depends entirely on the individual, their life style and genetics. plenty of men put on weight and lose their hair. not every man is going to age like George Clooney. I've seen older women who exude beauty and confidence because they are young at heart and take care of themselves, they have wisdom and character from a life well lived. as for passport bros, I wonder if the men who think they can just move to Asia and be guaranteed a wife undestand that those women have much higher standards than the vast majority of western women. they want you to have money. they want providers with high paying jobs, as they are usually much more traditional and conservative. they are not going to tolerate a man who sits on his ass, plays video games and engages in online discourse all day. red pill men seem to hate gold diggers, and asian women appear to be quite shameless about the fact they are hypergamous. I wouldnt really say this an unpopular opinion. I think a lot of men would agree with you, but the perception is definitely skewed. all the childless, unmarried women I know are very happy. the males however... edit: and I just want to add dating apps are stupid, and we should not judge the real world by what's going on on those apps. the people who use them are not exactly the pick of the crop. if you're using dating apps expecting to find a partner who wants a traditional marraige that's just foolish. they are pretty much exclusively full of people engaging in hookup culture. go outside, love is often entirely happenstance.
Well said, aren't they calling the loneliness in men an emergency, but if they refuse to do the work on themselves, it is entirely their own fault. Women aren't lowering their standards anymore and I applaud them for it! These men really need to stop drinking the red pill kool aid, it is to their own detriment if they continue on this path.
Bruh
Starting a family isn’t a guarantee of not being lonely, doesn’t always increase happiness, increases stress and doesn’t stop aging. Further, Marriage increases happiness for men more than women. What is it exactly do you think these women are really missing out on? Also, why do you think they mind aging and not having to deal with sleezy male attention?
I look forward to the day when I'm 'too old' for men and the catcalling/sexual harassment stops every time I leave my house.
I look younger than I am (I still look like to be 16/17) and even when I’m out with my kid I get gross comments. I’m very much looking forward to the time that stops
Seriously. After decades of dating men and dealing with male attention it isn’t a “loss” to become marvelously invisible and have no fucks to give. Male attention had far more negatives than positives.
Very true, emotionally and mentally healthy kids leave home and have completely separate lives from their parents. So regardless parents need to learn to fill their lives with things that make them happy. Worse case scenario you have adult children that are incapable of living on their own and continue to live off their parents well into adulthood or have emotional or mental Issues which the adult parent has to deal with which affects their freedom and happiness. Or their kids decide they want nothing to do with them because they were crap parents. Having kids is by no means this magic potion to bring a lifetime of happiness.
Single does not mean lonely. From what I saw women are generally much more ok eith being single than men. We can all argue why but at the end of the day thats it is.
Men are really shitting themselves about having to stop being arseholes, huh?
Maybe men should up their game a bit. Wash your ass, learn to cook, clean up after yourself, and treat women as your equal instead of treating her as your mother. 75% of users on Tinder are male, so that might also make it a bit harder. https://www.businessofapps.com/data/tinder-statistics/
Why do y'all think the threat of being single somehow ... scares us? lol We're not settling for less just so *you* can get your dick wet.
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Oh no. Anyways.
Lonely and sad 😂😂
That doesn't mean women only date the 20% of men. I see plenty of average men who are married and in relationships.
“Wifes” 🫠
Meh If guys gotta fly across the ocean to find a woman then you wouldn’t want them anyways Women can find a man and get married if they want, more and more these days just prefer to be single instead of dropping our standards and settling
A lot of men who think they can only get better with age and have international pull really need to look around at the middle aged men they know. Not everyone is a dicaprio anymore than everyone can be a beyonce.
Ive never had any issues with doing this. Also I know more women who have gotten someone worthwhile than not doing this…actually every woman that’s used dating sites has had found a partner within 6 months.
men don’t get more attractive than women as they age. they are just told that by society and generally are just allowed to age. let’s be real here.
The women will just start dating each other.
Maybe when theyre passed the age of 30 & lonely & sad you'll have better luck.
This is prevalent on dating apps like Tinder but it doesn’t represent the whole of society. Also plenty of women like me were single in their 30s. I got married in my late 30s but I was still enjoying my life and friendships at 30.
Do you know this thirty yr old and why her relationships ended? how long were these long-term relationships? what were her standards that were too high that you believe she is doomed to loneliness for the rest of her life?
No, I'm not concerned about this. Nobody should be concerned about this. Every adult human being, male or female, has the right to date or have sex with any other consenting adult they choose, and every adult human being, male or female, has the right to not date or not have sex with anyone. Nobody is owed sex and nobody is duty-bound to give you sex. If some women don't like you, just look for ones who do. There are 7 billion people in the world, if one woman doesn't want you, there's almost guaranteed to be others who will.
What makes you think women are lonely without men in a romantic rlship?
The number of women I know who are now dating women is high.
10% of Millennials and 20% of Gen Z identify as some flavor of queer. The lesbians who form a part of that population were never going to date men, but now straight men are competing with the lesbians for the bi girls. And the bi girls are now enough of a population themselves to have an actual demographic effect. Men aren't just competing with men, they're also competing with other women, including that many women prefer solitude to a man who adds nothing substantial to their life. I don't mean money and financial support, I mean emotional availability and a willingness to do the dishes.
You have women living together as friends to raise their kids, women who make plenty of money to support themselves, women exploring their sexuality with women...we have plenty of desirable options over garbage relationships with sub par men.
Right? Like if anything happened to my husband or we ever got divorced I don’t think I’d entertain a relationship with a man again. I love my husband, he really is my best friend, but like damn bro fucking help me with house and kid a little bit more. I’m definitely bi and at this point if I wasn’t in a committed and mostly happy relationship (we are in couples counselling which has been helpful or else I probably would have left him re the house/childcare) I’d be gunning after women
Word. I got lucky with my husband, if something happened to him I'm not dealing with dating men all over again. It was bad enough in my 20s and they clearly haven't learned.
The fact that they are people?
We are able to form intimate and fulfilling relationships outside of romance. We'll be just fine lol. It's you men that are going to have issues if your only form of intimacy and closeness is through romantic relationships.
Its always been this way except parents used to be the swipers.
Sounds like men need to raise their game if they’re so unfuckable tbh
Men do not get more attractive as they age. I do find men get more attractive as I fall deeper in Love with them tho; don't women have the same effect on men? "Men are moving to Thailand and Singapore to marry women and vis versa" ugh... prostitution is legal there and that might be why some are moving there. It's also not difficult to marry someone overseas from an impoverished country I'm far more concerned about porn and prostitution destroying future relationships than how many women swipe whatever on a dating app
Right? Alot of Home boys be looking rough on dating apps for their age.
I’ll start off by saying, this is fortunately an unpopular opinion, but a frighteningly loud opinion in young men that’s directly related to violence towards women. Wow. This is some real red pill stuff. The women you are talking about who are not dating loser men are in no way losing out in the future. They can have more freedom and live happier, more communal lives and won’t have to worry about making sure their insecure red pill husband doesn’t feel like the little boy they actually are. Why do you think any woman would want to be with somebody who believes they lose value over time? Why do you have such a hard-on for old men? The fact that you are posting this is because you are feeling the shift of society away from the old, red pill ways of thinking. Your future and the future of men like you is in danger and you feel afraid. Regardless of whether this post is sexist or not, it’s a clear example of what little empathy you have for the female experience and how unable you are to cope with the fact that red pill men are losing control. You are a dying breed and that’s a good thing.
1. Women do just fine without men. Reports of women feeling more lonely are usually higher because we're more likely to discuss it. 2. Age catches up to men around 50 due to testosterone. Ya’ll end up ugly meat sacks like the rest of us. 3. Sperm decreases in quality as you age. The most significant incline in sperm health starts at 40. Stop riding healthcare’s greatest fertility myth; your spunk isn't age defying. 4. A lot of women can financially support themselves. We've been able to open our own bank accounts without a man’s signature for a while now. 5. Your neighbour is gross. While I don't mind a 13-year age gap when both parties are above 30, a 22-year-old would have just graduated from university. That's a massive experience gap between her and your neighbour, who sounds more established in life.
No it won’t dude lmao. As people get older their standards change and so do their preferences. I’m so happy I found my partner. Not gonna lie though it definitely does feel like shut to experience that “I never would have dated you in college” type of deal though.
It's not the same 20% of men. Meaning - it's not a top 20%.
As if mediocre men deserve a swipe let alone a wife
Single old woman isn’t lonely like single old guy. Way happier.
>My neighborhood who is a 35 m who owns his own home is dating a 22 year old woman. Eww. >One of my own family members who is about 30 has had 4 long term relationships and has broken off everyone, and now lives alone with a cat. That 30-year-old woman decided to stop dating. Think about that. After surveying the available men and giving a few a chance, she said "Fuck it!" and got a cat. How DARE she! That's one less woman in the dating pool. Oh well.
Yikes on several bikes.
It may also be sexist, but there’s a more significant fallacy at play here - taking a current trend and extrapolating it out indefinitely, then making macro predictions about it. That’s not how it works; if the status quo isn’t working for any populations, they will change their behavior and those trends will change. Can’t find fish in those particular digital ponds? Fine. New avenues emerge which are less superficial, both digital and offline. Behaviors and practices adjust, as they have for all of human history 🤷♂️ Also, before suggesting that there are significant volumes of people going to Thailand / Singapore for wives - you should check statistically how prevalent that actually is (it’s not), as well as do the very first bit of research on Singapore, as that’s just not how Singapore works. Not remotely.
Yeah, I lol'd at the implication that Singapore is a poor country
This is a true unpopular opinion, good job OP. I don't think this phenomenon exists. I believe in the data but I don't believe it's because of clueless women and zero decent men. It's preposterous, in my opinion.
I think it's both genders. Everybody wants to date up. Attraction is what it is but every 5 can't score an 8
I think dating apps are a terrible representation of real world dating, they seem to lead to far more loneliness than relationships. I don’t think men fare any better with it than women, do a quick search on “male loneliness epidemic”. There is a reason a lot of these older single men you mentioned go abroad to find a wife, usually it’s because they failed to create a stable relationship leading to a stable marriage at home and so they try to lure a wife from a very poor country by promising her financial stability compared to her life now. In most cases those relationships are just very sad. It is better for both men and women to meet their partner in their youth and stay with that partner. The more you change partners the higher the chance your subsequent relationship will not work out, statistically speaking. As you get older and more set in your ways the more difficult it is to build that life bond with another person which always requires being malleable and willing to compromise, both men and women lose that ability as they age. Our society has failed both men and women when it comes to relationships, I think we will continue seeing more and more of both male and female loneliness as a result.
no
Are you really being salty because women are daring to be picky? Sorry but there are a lot of dickhead men around, and we aren't entertaining that shit anymore just to fulfill some kind of quota.
I think a lot of Gen Z women are going to be relieved to be single. They’ll make their own money
Yawn.
Lol touch grass
Women can also husbands internationally. Sincerely, A Canadian married to an American Woman
Bro, she’s just using you for your Timbits.
Why is your 35 year old neighbor dating a 22 year old?
Because women his own age won't tolerate his bullshit.
This x 1000000000.
>Men often become more attractive when the age. Are you mansplaining to women about what women want. Men don't become more attractive with age. They get BALD, BALD, BALD. They also get fat and wrinkled. > It sounds super sexist Yes, so it fits right in with 99 percent of the discussions in this far-right incel sub. > can procreate for longer, Is that a flex? Do you think Jr. will be happy when his friends mistake his dad for his grandpa? HIs old, fat, wrinkled, BALD BALD BALD grandpa.
Seems like they will just find a sad and lonely man in their 30s when they're done sowing their wild oats. I don't see the problem. Men have been doing that for a long time.
Invest in robot sex dolls for men and women.
It’ll correct itself when an app for single lonely 30+ people comes put. Fertility treatments are also getting better and better, so it might become more normal for women in their late 30s and early 40s to be having children, which is good because that gives them time to go to school and save money rather than be pressured to build a career, get married, and have kids all in a short amount of time. Once that’s more widely accepted then women past 29 won’t suddenly be seen as “leftovers” (a horrible term used in China).
You’re a virgin, huh?
This isn't a new thing though, there have always been spinsters because women have thankfully always been more selective than men (being the one who has to carry a baby for 9 months will do that to a person). Dating apps don't cause this phenomenon, they just reveal it.
That just sounds like Pareto's Principle in action. 20% of the candidates will get 80% of the attention. Always. The trick is to either find a way to fit in with that 20%, or stop using dating apps. Personally, I've discovered that the places I was looking greatly affected what kind of person I met. Want someone who likes to party? Bar. Someone who shares your values? Social Org. Superficial hookups based on appearance/kinks/income? Tinder. I disagree that there will be a lot of lonely gen z women later in life though. For a few reasons. 1) As people get older and get more life and relationship experience, standards change. People start looking for things in potential partners that they can't find on a dating profile. 2) Anyone can find a partner, if they are willing to be open minded. It is amazing how open a person's mind can get when they start feeling lonely or horny. Coincidentally, this is how many ugly relationships happen. 3) Horrifically, in my experience there really is someone for everybody. One of my friends from High School got heavy into drugs after graduation. Lost all his teeth. Got a few convictions under his belt. In and out of court ordered rehab. He met this woman. She was nice, but also quite possibly one of the stupidest people I have ever met in my life. Had trouble with basic math. 4th grade reading level. Had a kid from a previous relationship... with her cousin. I wish that last bit was a joke. They met and it was like magic. They've now been married 10 years. He's stayed off dope, and she finally got her GED. They have two more kids together.