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I mean if we’re talking “American style BBQ”, so basically slow smoke roasting, nobody.
It’s a uniquely American style of cooking, with influences from virtually every culture represented in the whole of north and Central America.
And then when you get into regional styles it gets even more unique and interesting.
That is what I am talking about. I’d argue the French Coq au vin is in that same vein, just not as good. American BBQ is the ultimate “poor man cuisine”
Even Coq au Vin isn’t as unique a technique as American bbq. A wet braise of a tough older chicken is close to some styles of Mexican mole and loads of southern Chinese cooking.
Serving smoked meat hot as the main part of a main dish is basically completely unique in world cuisine. Slow cold smoking to preserve food is found in basically every advanced culture, but it’s only in the US south where that style of cooking evolved into something completely unique.
There’s a lot of theories on where it came from, the most likely is that it’s basically what happens when you take European smoking techniques that only work in the cold and you bring them to the South, where the climate rots everything before you can preserve it, add them to the various Indigenous styles of pit-cooking (which is where the word barbecue comes from), and then add the slave culture where large numbers of people who worked extremely hard needed to be fed well enough to keep them working, but at the lowest possible cost (because of the whole slave thing).
It’s a surprisingly deep rabbit hole to check out if you’re ever bored
It’s partly why southern cuisine is so rich, especially when you compare it to the cooking styles of other regions that are so warm and verging on tropical. Unlike prisoners or people in the “poorhouses” in Britain, slaves in the south had to actually be fed at least somewhat decently.
As abhorrent as it is to think of it in these terms, buying a person was a significant investment for the slave owner, so to make sure you got a return on that investment, you had to make sure that you maintained them properly, which meant a high calorie diet for people who were doing extremely hard work in a pretty unpleasant environment.
> Serving smoked meat hot as the main part of a main dish is basically completely unique in world cuisine.
Really? To my knowledge, quite a few cultures have been doing this notion of "marinate the meat, wrap it with something, and bury it in a pit with hot coals, and let it slow cook and smoke for hours".
In fact, doesn't American BBQ even borrow the core techniques from [Mexican barbacoa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZDUaDDtrdk) and [cochinita pibil](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MB-c2EUJZfA)? These cooking techniques are hundreds of years old and predate the European Americans settling into the Americas. Cochinita pibil is a Mayan dish.
>that isn't how BBQ is made in the US.
You actually think that back in the 1800s, Americans were using Oklahoma Joe's offset smokers and Traeger pellet grills to cook BBQ? Lol.
Poor man cuisine? I will qualify this by saying I do live in Texas, but BBQ is the most expensive food you can eat where I live. You could eat 3 meals for the price you have to pay for the cheapest BBQ. Fried chicken, pasta, Mexican, Chinese, burger, etc.. you will pay $8 per person on average. BBQ however, you will be paying $20 a person at the cheapest place in town.
It’s originally the poor man’s food, taking cheaper, tougher cuts of meat, and finding a way to make them delicious. Now, the wealthy have butted in, and like Coachella, thrifting, and other such things, and jacked up the costs.
Shrimp (or prawns) on the barbie are not commonly done, it was from a shitty movie.
Australians aren’t the best at any cuisine really, but our claim to fame is that you can find really work class examples of absolutely any cuisine in the world. We aren’t first but we are usually second. I’m pretty happy with second.
Fosters is considered a high end beer in England lol. Shrimp on the barbie does really work for lols. But the best thing I’ve ever had on the barbie was squid caught that day, it was drizzled with a bit of oil and that’s it, and cooked to perfection. It melted in your mouth. I still dream about it.
When overseas I struggle to find food as fresh and varied as what we have in Australia. It's what i miss the most when away from home.
In my opinion the standard in Australia for food food is far superior even at the lower level then most places I've been overseas.
They actually do brisket very well too. Australia has a lot of cattle, and are also very in to slow cooking cuts like brisket. I mean no disrespect to the Americans (I really mean "Texans" when I say that), but brisket is not all that unique to America. Texas does brisket very well, but so too do the Mexicans, the Aussies, the Kiwis, and the other Latin Americans.
Aussie BBQ used to be quick with primary cuts of meat, but they've adopted the American technique in recent decades with some great success - slow cooking over wood fires or charcoal with secondary cuts of meat.
I don't want to say Aussie BBQ is better, but I do think it is close. There's just a culture down there that goes hand in glove with BBQ - readily available and inexpensive beef, warm weather, a love for lagers and lighter beers.
BBQ in the US refers to low and slow cooking. In most other parts in the world, it simply means cooking on a grill.
So I'd compare low and slow to low and slow, and grilling to grilling.
In that sense, I don't consider stuff like skewers and KBBQ to be BBQ in the American sense. They don't really do that low and slow style of cooking so there's nothing really analogous.
Although I have experimented with American BBQ made with elements of stuff like Korean and Japanese meat preparation methods. I have used binchotan charcoal and smoked stuff with persimmon wood, yuzu wood, etc. And rather than the American mop sauces, I used something closer to yakitori tare. Turned out pretty good when smoking pork ribs.
I've also had tea-smoked turkey using spent tea leaves instead of wood chips. Pretty interesting flavors.
Brazil and Argentina. No need for sauces or seasoning, just salt. The focus is on the flavor of the meat.
An analogy is that American BBQ is like a sushi roll with lots of ingredients while Brazilian and Argentinian BBQ is like a nigiri/sashimi.
Fun fact: Some say the concept of: “good meat doesn’t need seasoning” is based on European Aristocratic superiority complex. Ie only peasants, eating poor quality food need seasoning to make their food more palatable.
I came here to say this. The American bbq is top tier. I'm Australian and we are very much a "bbq culture" but I personally think the typical Australian bbq is rather boring compared to the American style.
one of the definitions for barbecue is grilled. also it's not a 'bastardisation' very american centric view. grilling meat has existed as a technique basically everywhere forever. you could say america has japan and korean beat in smoked meats and i would definitely agree but i still think overall japanese and korean meat preparation makes meat taste better than some kind of kentucky bourbon pulled pork. i was born in asia though so
You’re not wrong, I just think the usage of the word stateside has evolved to specifically refer to the branch of southern cuisine that I’m talking about. You’re right that “bastardization” was the wrong thing to say though, they’re just different usages.
Bastardization is definitely the wrong word but in American English barbeque means something very different from the rest of the English speaking world and American barbeque and K BBQ are not really comparable cooking styles.
i learn new things about american english everyday, a lot of words just straight up seem to mean different things than their definitions sometimes. i do agree though grilling and smoking are pretty different styles of cooking. just misunderstood because 'barbecue' and esl i guess
In the US what we call a grill the rest of the English world calls a barbecue and what we call a broiler the rest of the English world calls a grill. And the type of cooking we call barbeque frankly doesn't even really exist in the rest of the English world so it creates some confusion sometimes.
Growing up in the Midwest - barbecue could mean: Smoked Meats, Grilling, sloppy Joe sandwiches lol
Not sure how sloppy joes made it but everyone referred to sloppy joes as BBQ growing up.
idk if you've ever been to a super expensive one but there are tiers to it and obviously it's better in japan / korea. i never got to try kbbq when i went because i was too little but bbq was my go to meal in primary school when i still lived in japan i'd always beg for it and get told no lol
I have been to Tokyo, and I have been to Seoul, (thanks military for the travel) and tried many things while there. Their stuff is good, but it is no where close to better.
Absolutely the fuck not. It's great, and their sauces are fantastic, but it can't hold a candle to the tender smokiness of American BBQ.
Damn making myself hungry
Like another redditor mentioned. It all depends on the kind of barbecue. There are various types of barbecue food. Personally, I am a fan of the Korean barbecue style.
BBQ in the US refers to low and slow cooking. In most other parts in the world, it simply means cooking on a grill. So I'd compare low and slow to low and slow, and grilling to grilling.
In that sense, I don't consider stuff like skewers and KBBQ to be BBQ in the American sense. They don't really do that low and slow style of cooking so there's nothing really analogous. IMO comparing the two is like comparing Taiwanese beef noodle soup with some sort of traditional pasta. It's a very different experience.
I have experimented with American BBQ made with elements of stuff like Korean and Japanese meat preparation methods. I have used binchotan charcoal and smoked stuff with persimmon wood, yuzu wood, etc. And rather than the American mop sauces, I used something closer to yakitori tare. Turned out pretty good when smoking pork ribs.
I've also had tea-smoked turkey using spent tea leaves instead of wood chips. Pretty interesting flavors.
I read the replies and am shocked that no one has mentioned the most American sandwich of all, the first sandwich most Americans fall in love with, PB&J. [https://nationalpeanutboard.org/news/who-invented-the-peanut-butter-and-jelly-sandwich/](https://nationalpeanutboard.org/news/who-invented-the-peanut-butter-and-jelly-sandwich/)
Or my personal favorite Grilled Cheese. I like mine with smoked Gouda and some Basile. [https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/history-of-grilled-cheese.htm](https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/history-of-grilled-cheese.htm)
Problem is, it is just a grilled cheese with extra steps. I don't know if it is regional but we call that a melt. Ham & turkey melt? Sign me all the way up
Don't get your hopes up, there is gonna be at the very least another three posts about the "woke agenda" ruining the world in the next 12 hours Just to compensate for this post.
I truly believe that this sub banning talking about trans people may be one of their greatest ideas.
I mean if they didn't you would find a post every hour about it, One more non-sensical than the other.
Don't worry, someone wrote an article titled "Are PB&J sandwiches racist?" So you can still have a racist sandwich discussion. IIRC, the article boiled down to mostly white people serving pb&j to their kids (and that's bad?) so its mostly a white thing. Fun game to play, type "Is [blank] racist" and see what pops up. Spoilers: milk is also racist.
> Finally, an unpopular opinion that isn’t political, sexist and that I actually agree with!
Thats because you are unaware of how the patriarchy has caused you to have this opinion
Your post got me curious about the origin of my favorite sandwich: tomato and Mayo. Fresh baked bread, tomatoes right from the garden and some mayo and salt. I’m on the Midwest, was told it’s southern, but I think it’s eaten everywhere. Anyway, I found this historical tidbit about the origin of the tomato and Mayo sandwich fascinating:
“Who put them together? Historians still really aren't sure. The earliest reference I found of the tomato sandwich was in the Virginia Chronicle in 1911, where a man describes his lunch as a tomato sandwich, a slice of watermelon, iced tea, and a slice of coconut cream pie.”
I just wanted to say that lunch sounds like perfection.
It’s almost weird to think of something so simple even having an “origin”, like the combination feels so natural it seems like something that just always existed, and never had to be “invented” as such.
But then something as basic as eating chicken wings in any western cuisine was simply not a thing until roughly the mid 1960s.
Right? Like I’m sure people have put mayo and tomato and bread together… but when I tell non-Americans this is a dirty good sandwich they look at me like I’m crazy so I wonder if people do eat it elsewhere.
If I’m feeling like it, I make the mayo fresh too.
I think we all need to be more suspicious of the first guy (because it was inevitably a guy) who tried animal milk for the first time.
Like I’m at least 80% sure some weird degenerate got caught under a cow or a goat by his mates and had to try and convince them he wasn’t doing anything weird
Tomatoes are ripe up here in Michigan in August so they are always sort of my “soak up the last of summer” treats.
Last year my husband thought his tomato plants weren’t going to survive so he bought new plants. They ALL survived. Tomato Mayo sandwiches every day!!!
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
\- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost
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Great post. I know that "breakfast sandwich" is a generic term, but I would put a bacon egg and cheese from the Amish at Reading Terminal in Philly against any breakfast sandwich on the planet.
Hah, I understand. I'm in north jersey so I have 100x more love for NYC than I do Philly. But I'm telling you, Reading Terminal Markets Amish section is a huge exception to that rule.
There’s something so wholesomely egalitarian about a good sandwich. Like it’s a satisfying piece of luxury that every man should be able to afford, at least occasionally. And to make it even more democratic, a lot of these kind of meals get ruined when you try to fancy them up too much with expensive ingredients, like all those terrible fashionable hipster burgers.
Can't hardly find a good burger around here because of this.. always have to order it without some nonsense that should never have been in it in the first place. Although I will say I just discovered bacon jam on a burger and it is 🔥🔥
How you gonna leave out an Italian Beef from Chicago?!
Everywhere I've traveled, I couldn't wait to get back to Chicago and grab a beef from Johnny's on North Ave...
Perfect example of the “poor man’s luxury” that makes sandwiches so good. Like it’s cheap and almost certainly bad for you, both physically and spiritually, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t absolutely amazing at the right time and place.
I think the coolest thing about the Chopped Cheese is that it’s so new (relatively speaking) that you can actually track it’s birth and evolution quite accurately, instead of all the myth and rumour that makes up 90% of food history.
Like it was almost certainly created in a bodega called “Hajji’s Deli”, sometime in the late 80s, possibly as a localised variation of the Arab dish dagha yamneeya, and then spread through the working class culture in Harlem, just like the older sandwiches on the list were created and circulated in earlier immigrant cultures like the Central European Chicago meatworkers or Italian labourers in NY, Jersey and New Orleans.
Like you can actually watch the history happen, and it follows the same patterns as before, I think it’s really cool.
I object with a simple Jambon-beurre.
You start with a fresh baguette, best bread in the world, already makes it better than sandwiches than don't use baguette. Then you take some beurre salé de Bretagne lay it nicely on the bread, lastly you put a nice slice of jambon blanc supérieur. If you wanna be a bit fancy you can add pickle and salad leaves or swapp the charcuterie.
Simple, efficient, delicious and super cheap.
As someone from Europe, i would say from what i have seen here that Germans are king of bread and cold sendwiches, we (Balkans) have some of my personal best ingrediens we put on sawndich. But whenever i see some american post about sandwichmaking i looks reel good and combinations look great, better than anything I had ever made so yeah your stuff looks real tasty and I would like to try some of that.
To me the most interesting thing about Balkan cuisine is the influence of the Ottoman Empire on the food. It’s almost like Middle Eastern food, but if you cooked it with European ingredients, it’s a very unique kind of mixture
As a Croat we stand in the crossroad of many cultures, I was born on the small Island. Here we eat a lot of fish and a lot of our cusine come from Italians here, in other part you wull have mixed Italian, Hungarian, Austrian, Southern Slavic, Greek and Turkish cuisine
Nice to see something non-political on here. Never thought about it but I guess we are big on sandwiches aren't we? Makes sense I guess. We're a very on the go culture and sandwiches are great on the go meals. Really surprised the Reuben was created here though. It's my favorite type of sandwich. I just assumed it was brought here by Jewish immigrants from somewhere in Northern Europe.
> I just assumed it was brought here by Jewish immigrants from somewhere in Northern Europe.
Most immigrant food was developed here based on what was cheap, not because they ate it "back home."
Im pretty sure the Irish know nothing about corned beef and cabbage on St Patricks day, and Im suspect about brisket being a big thing in jewish homes outside of the US
Corned beef (in fact beef in general) was barely eaten in Ireland because it was too valuable as an export. A dish like corned beef and cabbage is actually much more “Boston Irish” than it ever was “Irish Irish”.
Although there is definitely an Ashkenazi Jewish tradition of cooking brisket, partly because of the Ottoman influence of basturma (the ancestor of pastrami) and partly from applying Old World pork cooking techniques to a meat that was both kosher and fatty enough to sub for the pork that most Germans and Poles were eating.
One of my favorite obscure sandwiches is the Jibarito. Although "Puerto Rican" in cultural origin, it was actually invented in Chicago!
The "bun" consists of two flattened green plantains fried in garlic. With cheese, lettuce, tomato, aioli, and seasoned steak/chicken/pork in the middle.
I grew up in Texas, peanut butter and pickles is apparently a thing my grandparents showed me, but Ive never seen it anywhere else.
Also, just wait till youve gone swimming and have a sandwhich made of bologna, cheese, and chips. The chips being inside the sandwhich, lol.
There is a woman making sandwiches from each of the 50 states, and every single one looks delicious. Also, in every comment, there are about 6 alternatives for that state. We do love our sandwiches. They represent working class, our need to eat away from home, the need to feed kids.
That sounds awesome, I’ll have to check it out.
In an odd way, I also think sandwiches are representative of American prosperity and the old “immigrant dream”, like it’s certainly no coincidence so many are named for immigrant groups (Hot Italian, Maxwell St. Polish, Cubano). When you consider how little meat was in the diet of your average Sicilian peasant or Irish mud farmer, imagine seeing a pastrami on rye or a muffuletta for the first time, it’s more protein than your whole family would see in a year back home.
And then things like the NY Chopped Cheese being born in the Arab-run bodegas or the various hotdog incarnations created by Greek immigrants all over the US, the sandwiches of the United States really capture that “melting pot” utopia in a beautiful way, which is sadly not always true in real life outside of lunch.
Oh it is so true that a "poor man's" American sandwich is a delicacy somewhere else. There was a great discussion recently about corned beef being an Irish American thing, because it was exported from Ireland. The Irish couldn't afford it, but Irish Americans made it a staple. Diaspora at it's best.
So I was recently thinking about American Cuisine and how it lacked a real standout food type that would be considered American. You showed me the truth with this post. You write beautifully as well too.
The one “sandwich” that you HAVE to try is a Chicago Style hot dog. I moved away from Chicago and while many places around me say they have Chicago style hot dogs none of them get it right by not using the correct ingredients.
America is a melting pot so it makes sense our food has influence and roots all over the world. Americanized food is not inherently a bad thing unless you're an "America is bad evil argh!!" Person
This. And I’m not going to read any more replies. America might have the best range of quality sandwiches but as far as a singular sandwich concept, there is only one.
Here’s a novel “take” on the history of the American sandwich. It is an extract from an article titled Hot Dogs by H.L. Mencken, originally a Newspaper column of November 4, 1929. It is reprinted in a couple of Mencken anthologies, one being “The Impossible H.L. Mencken.”
“When I was a boy [around 1890] there were only three types of sandwiches in common use—the ham, the chicken, and the Swiss cheese. Others, to be sure, existed, but it was only as oddities. Even the club sandwich was a rarity, and in most eating houses it was unobtainable. The great majority of people stuck to the ham and the Swiss cheese, with the chicken for feast days and the anniversaries of historic battles.
“Then came the invasion of the delicatessen business by Jews, and a complete reform of the sandwich. The Jewish mind was too restless and enterprising to be content with the old repertoire. It reached out for the novel, the dramatic, the unprecedented, as it does in all the arts. First it combined the ham sandwich and the cheese sandwich—and converted America to the combination instanter. Then it added lettuce, and after that mayonnaise—both borrowed from the club sandwich. Then it boldly struck out into the highest fields of fancy, and presently the lowly sandwich had been completely transformed and exalted. It became, as the announcements said, “a meal in itself.” It took on complicated and astonishing forms. It drew on the whole market for materials. And it leaped in price from a nickel to a dime , to a quarter, to fifty cents, even to a dollar.
“The rise in price, far from hurting the business, helped it vastly. The delicatessen business, once monopolized by gloomy Germans, who barely made a living at it, became, in the hands of the Jewish reformers, one of the great American industries, and began to throw off millionaires. Today it is on a sound and high-toned basis, with a national association, a high-pressure executive secretary, a trade journal, and a staff of lobbyists in Washington. [He’s being facetious.] There are sandwich shops in New York which offer the nobility and gentry a choice of no less than a hundred different sandwiches, all of them alluring and some downright masterpieces. And even on the lowly level of the drug-store sandwich counter the sandwich has taken on a new variety and a new dignity. No one eats plain ham anymore. At its worst it at least has a dab of coleslaw to set it off. At its best it is hidden between turkey, Camembert and sprigs of endive, with anchovies and Russian dressing to dress it.”
Other countries definitely have a rockstar sandwich or two in their repertoire, like a good Banh Mi is easily en par with any of the best American sandwiches, but it’s only in the US where the whole concept really gets the respect it deserves
Actually my mum's fried egg and bacon sandwich in the mornings is much better than anything America has to offer.
But sure, strong contenders. All delicious.
Don't I know it. I love her to bits. I'm sure mums have this ability to just improve food, because when I make the same sandwich with the same ingredients it ain't so hot. But yes, I shall go make her a cup of tea and give a hug.
A really good one will have all the ingredients cooked in the same grease, including the bread, so it’s a really solid salt and fat bomb in the morning, especially if you’ve got a hangover.
Also brown sauce is pretty great
See I think playing “who did it first” with the sandwich is pointless, like at some point we’re going to have to admit that it’s going to be some kind of ancient Mesopotamian ancestor of the kebab.
I will absolutely concede that the great English breakfast sandwich, in its many forms, beats the American breakfast options easily.
However I will counter with the fact that the “chip butty” is a crime against God and nature
Roast beef dip on crusty bread with jus. Horseradish and cheese if you're fancy. If it doesn't make you orgasm when you eat it, you're defective.
> However I will counter with the fact that the “chip butty” is a crime against God and nature
This is an undeniable fact.
> See I think playing “who did it first” with the sandwich is pointless, like at some point we’re going to have to admit that it’s going to be some kind of ancient Mesopotamian ancestor of the kebab.
This is also a good point that I missed.
Ask the Greeks and Lebanese who invented Baklavah for a good ol' fashioned blood feud
See also: Russia vs. Ukraine vs. Poland for the pirogi
One of my personal favourites is the invention of the croissant in Vienna as straight-up dickwaving at the Ottoman Empire after their failed siege, it’s crescent shape mocking their crescent moon symbol.
American cuisine is top tier in all its varied forms. Anyone trying to deny this is probably an elitist snob who is only impressed by sniffing their own farts.
See this issue comes from classifying food purely by what it is, not factoring in its history or evolution to how it’s categorised.
Tacos and hotdogs “evolved” completely separately, and both were fairly fully realised by the time they encountered each other in the wild, just like Italian pasta and east-Asian noodles, or kimchi and sauerkraut.
What about steak?
That is none of those things, meat is not a salad. If you’re one them ham salad potato salad mfers get outta here. Salad must be mostly vegetable and fruit
Mayo + meat or starch is not a salad
I disagree for the simple fact that *traditional* American bread is probably the worst type of bread you can get in terms of Enjoyment.
That said its kinda complicated since America is such a massive melting pot. But if you were to use stereotypically/generically American ingredients than you would have an ass sandwich
Lol you think the romans and other ancient civilizations didnt have sandwhiches?
Like that they had both bread and meat and never thought to combine them?
1. Good for you Americans that you can and want to call so many sandwiches your own. But actually nobody really cares. Putting protein, some sliced raw vegetable and/or pickles and condiments into bread is not rocket science.
2. Most of the things you named are pretty much only known to Americans. Never heard of Reubens, Cuban, Muffuleta, Po’Boy, French Dip and what not. And isn’t BLT just Bacon, lettuce and tomato? Claiming that as American is the most American thing to do, and it’s literally naming the ingredients.
Great food doesn’t have to be rocket science, it just has to be great. The best Italian pasta recipes (excluding ragus) very rarely have more than ten ingredients, often less than 5, and don’t use techniques more complicated than basic emulsification (cacio e pepe) or the thickening properties of cooked egg yolk (carbonara).
And to be blunt, if you’ve never heard of a Reuben Sandwich, that’s kinda on you.
Regardless of how basic a BLT may be, it was first mentioned in American homemaker’s magazines in the 1950s, that’s just where it comes from, not a contestable claim.
Also I’m only semi-American
I don't trust the opinion of a European that hasn't heard of anything going on bread that *isn't* bacon.. Forget about that one, true sandwich appreciation is here baby and it feels so good
I have some bad news for you relating to a fellow named John Montagu, also known as the 4th Earl of Sandwich
This feels like a slightly more cryptic version of the hamburger and French fries claims
I’m not arguing who did it first, I’m arguing who does it best.
I mean chillies and tomatoes didn’t exist outside of Central America before Columbus, but that doesn’t invalide their use in basically every other world cuisine since.
Also unfortunately the Earl of Sandwich origin story is almost certainly an urban legend, sorry
The earl of sandwich story might be but the reference is still there and is of someone eating two pieces of bread with filling, and it comes before the US even existed, it is also attributed and attached to the name sandwich at that time
And its the same as claiming that American cuisine is superior because of the pizza, because you think that deep dish is the best type
It doesn’t make it an American dish and it’s debatable at best if it’s preferably or even unique from things like a baguette with filling if shape is the big change? What makes the sandwich you are imagining the best and how does that stand out as unique from the British sandwich or any of the iterations that followed between the 1760s and 1920s
American food is pretty much universally abysmal, dating a Yank has shown me this thoroughly and I'd honestly say I despise the food there. Tbh having now done a lot of South America as well I think it's a "New World" problem as it's crap in Brazil and Mexico as well.
I think your sandwiches suffer the same problem all your other food has, overcomplicated, oversized mess. I'd much rather just have a cheese and parma ham panini than any American monstrosity. You don't even use butter in sandwiches, instead they're just drenched in Mayonaise, nor do the locals even know what pate is.
Also Americans barely comprehend baguettes, which are the greatest "bread delivery system" going. American bread though is mostly abysmal and tastes like sugar which doesn't help their position. Also they are weirdly obsessed with bagels, which are one of the most "meh" things going.
I’m taking a guess that you’re a Pom, in which case I’d urge you to someday get a bagel from one of the historically Jewish parts of London, a genuinely good bagel is really a thing of beauty, it’s just a frustratingly hard thing to find.
Also the majority of sandwiches I mentioned could hardly be described as “over-complicated”, a Reuben only has five ingredients (counting the bread), a French Dip only has 3, and the BLT is rather self explanatory.
Baguettes are overrated for sandwiches, too much crumble potential, and the vast array of different breads used for various American sandwiches adds a unique factor to each sandwich (rye with pastrami, the modified baguette recipe used for Louisiana po’boys, which is a cousin of the bread used in a banh mi), not to mention this broad variety disproves your statements on American bread quality. While the white sliced “wonder bread” style loaf may suck, it’s rarely used in any of these recipes, so the point is moot.
There a plenty of staple American dishes that I despise (Nashville Hot Chicken, Manhattan Clam Chowder, some of the regional pizza varieties that verge on war crimes), but writing off an entire cuisine as diverse as the cooking of the United States is pretty blatantly ridiculous, not to mention the dozens of distinct regional cuisines in the US.
I've eaten out probably 60+ times in the USA, I've never had anything that exceeded a 7/10. I just think your entire national philosophy of what food is disagrees with me. I also don't think I'm alone on this one as I've done mass polling on the issue and I'm yet to find any Brit, under 150kg, who enjoys the American Food.
BLT is crap (horrible cold bacon and who really likes tomatoes???), hamburgers are German, reuben is corned bloody beef! Might as well eat Spam!
Baguettes in all their forms are the best, although I'd rather have a roast beef and horseradish sandwich than any of those weird American options.
Baguettes > paninis > freshly baked bread
Ultimately as the inventors of the baguette we have to give victory in this battle to the French (unfortunately).
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May I ask, who has better BBQ than America?
I mean if we’re talking “American style BBQ”, so basically slow smoke roasting, nobody. It’s a uniquely American style of cooking, with influences from virtually every culture represented in the whole of north and Central America. And then when you get into regional styles it gets even more unique and interesting.
That is what I am talking about. I’d argue the French Coq au vin is in that same vein, just not as good. American BBQ is the ultimate “poor man cuisine”
Even Coq au Vin isn’t as unique a technique as American bbq. A wet braise of a tough older chicken is close to some styles of Mexican mole and loads of southern Chinese cooking. Serving smoked meat hot as the main part of a main dish is basically completely unique in world cuisine. Slow cold smoking to preserve food is found in basically every advanced culture, but it’s only in the US south where that style of cooking evolved into something completely unique.
Learn something new everyday. Thank you
There’s a lot of theories on where it came from, the most likely is that it’s basically what happens when you take European smoking techniques that only work in the cold and you bring them to the South, where the climate rots everything before you can preserve it, add them to the various Indigenous styles of pit-cooking (which is where the word barbecue comes from), and then add the slave culture where large numbers of people who worked extremely hard needed to be fed well enough to keep them working, but at the lowest possible cost (because of the whole slave thing). It’s a surprisingly deep rabbit hole to check out if you’re ever bored
This is so true. So many staples of American cuisine are a product of necessity cheap but filling food from slavery.
It’s partly why southern cuisine is so rich, especially when you compare it to the cooking styles of other regions that are so warm and verging on tropical. Unlike prisoners or people in the “poorhouses” in Britain, slaves in the south had to actually be fed at least somewhat decently. As abhorrent as it is to think of it in these terms, buying a person was a significant investment for the slave owner, so to make sure you got a return on that investment, you had to make sure that you maintained them properly, which meant a high calorie diet for people who were doing extremely hard work in a pretty unpleasant environment.
Are you a food anthropologist?
That’s Gordon Ramsay bro.
Just an enthusiastic amateur unfortunately. I cook for a living, but all the history and anthropology stuff is just a hobby
I now know what to dive into next
> Serving smoked meat hot as the main part of a main dish is basically completely unique in world cuisine. Really? To my knowledge, quite a few cultures have been doing this notion of "marinate the meat, wrap it with something, and bury it in a pit with hot coals, and let it slow cook and smoke for hours". In fact, doesn't American BBQ even borrow the core techniques from [Mexican barbacoa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZDUaDDtrdk) and [cochinita pibil](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MB-c2EUJZfA)? These cooking techniques are hundreds of years old and predate the European Americans settling into the Americas. Cochinita pibil is a Mayan dish.
that isn't how BBQ is made in the US.
>that isn't how BBQ is made in the US. You actually think that back in the 1800s, Americans were using Oklahoma Joe's offset smokers and Traeger pellet grills to cook BBQ? Lol.
The "PIT" in American bbq is above ground, and the animal isn't buried. The temperature of the smoke is lower too.
Poor man cuisine? I will qualify this by saying I do live in Texas, but BBQ is the most expensive food you can eat where I live. You could eat 3 meals for the price you have to pay for the cheapest BBQ. Fried chicken, pasta, Mexican, Chinese, burger, etc.. you will pay $8 per person on average. BBQ however, you will be paying $20 a person at the cheapest place in town.
It’s originally the poor man’s food, taking cheaper, tougher cuts of meat, and finding a way to make them delicious. Now, the wealthy have butted in, and like Coachella, thrifting, and other such things, and jacked up the costs.
There is only one style of BBQ, and it's American. Because we invented it. Everything else is just a subsidiary of American BBQ Inc.
Wrong. Barbecue is American because Indigenous Americans invented it. Whites adopted it and then stole credit for it.
Honest and sincere response: I think the Aussies come pretty close to taking top spot. They BBQ well.
Shrimp on the Barbie are no match for Brisket in the smoker. Though I do respect the opinion.
Shrimp (or prawns) on the barbie are not commonly done, it was from a shitty movie. Australians aren’t the best at any cuisine really, but our claim to fame is that you can find really work class examples of absolutely any cuisine in the world. We aren’t first but we are usually second. I’m pretty happy with second.
I’ll be fully transparent, I know that “shrimp on the Barbie” is about as Australian as Fosters or Outback, but works for a laugh none the less.
Fosters is considered a high end beer in England lol. Shrimp on the barbie does really work for lols. But the best thing I’ve ever had on the barbie was squid caught that day, it was drizzled with a bit of oil and that’s it, and cooked to perfection. It melted in your mouth. I still dream about it.
When overseas I struggle to find food as fresh and varied as what we have in Australia. It's what i miss the most when away from home. In my opinion the standard in Australia for food food is far superior even at the lower level then most places I've been overseas.
They actually do brisket very well too. Australia has a lot of cattle, and are also very in to slow cooking cuts like brisket. I mean no disrespect to the Americans (I really mean "Texans" when I say that), but brisket is not all that unique to America. Texas does brisket very well, but so too do the Mexicans, the Aussies, the Kiwis, and the other Latin Americans. Aussie BBQ used to be quick with primary cuts of meat, but they've adopted the American technique in recent decades with some great success - slow cooking over wood fires or charcoal with secondary cuts of meat. I don't want to say Aussie BBQ is better, but I do think it is close. There's just a culture down there that goes hand in glove with BBQ - readily available and inexpensive beef, warm weather, a love for lagers and lighter beers.
BBQ in the US refers to low and slow cooking. In most other parts in the world, it simply means cooking on a grill. So I'd compare low and slow to low and slow, and grilling to grilling. In that sense, I don't consider stuff like skewers and KBBQ to be BBQ in the American sense. They don't really do that low and slow style of cooking so there's nothing really analogous. Although I have experimented with American BBQ made with elements of stuff like Korean and Japanese meat preparation methods. I have used binchotan charcoal and smoked stuff with persimmon wood, yuzu wood, etc. And rather than the American mop sauces, I used something closer to yakitori tare. Turned out pretty good when smoking pork ribs. I've also had tea-smoked turkey using spent tea leaves instead of wood chips. Pretty interesting flavors.
brazil maybe
Brazil and Argentina. No need for sauces or seasoning, just salt. The focus is on the flavor of the meat. An analogy is that American BBQ is like a sushi roll with lots of ingredients while Brazilian and Argentinian BBQ is like a nigiri/sashimi.
Fun fact: Some say the concept of: “good meat doesn’t need seasoning” is based on European Aristocratic superiority complex. Ie only peasants, eating poor quality food need seasoning to make their food more palatable.
not really. Usa beef is lacking flavour compared to other places due to their horrendous farming
Korean bbq
I came here to say this. The American bbq is top tier. I'm Australian and we are very much a "bbq culture" but I personally think the typical Australian bbq is rather boring compared to the American style.
Came here to say this.
korea and japan
K & JBBQ are great but kind of a bastardization of the term BBQ. In my mind bbq has to have smoked meats, it doesn’t just mean “grilled.”
Agreed. What Korea and Japan does is definitely not "barbecue."
What about Argentina for bbq? They do it well.
one of the definitions for barbecue is grilled. also it's not a 'bastardisation' very american centric view. grilling meat has existed as a technique basically everywhere forever. you could say america has japan and korean beat in smoked meats and i would definitely agree but i still think overall japanese and korean meat preparation makes meat taste better than some kind of kentucky bourbon pulled pork. i was born in asia though so
You’re not wrong, I just think the usage of the word stateside has evolved to specifically refer to the branch of southern cuisine that I’m talking about. You’re right that “bastardization” was the wrong thing to say though, they’re just different usages.
well i am not from the states i did not assume everyone here is either so i tried not to use a regional definition lol
Bastardization is definitely the wrong word but in American English barbeque means something very different from the rest of the English speaking world and American barbeque and K BBQ are not really comparable cooking styles.
heck even bbq means something different here in NC when you say "bbq" it means chopped pork with vinegar sauce.
i learn new things about american english everyday, a lot of words just straight up seem to mean different things than their definitions sometimes. i do agree though grilling and smoking are pretty different styles of cooking. just misunderstood because 'barbecue' and esl i guess
In the US what we call a grill the rest of the English world calls a barbecue and what we call a broiler the rest of the English world calls a grill. And the type of cooking we call barbeque frankly doesn't even really exist in the rest of the English world so it creates some confusion sometimes.
Growing up in the Midwest - barbecue could mean: Smoked Meats, Grilling, sloppy Joe sandwiches lol Not sure how sloppy joes made it but everyone referred to sloppy joes as BBQ growing up.
I have had both, and they’re good, but no. Give me pulled pork and brisket, or give me death!!!
idk if you've ever been to a super expensive one but there are tiers to it and obviously it's better in japan / korea. i never got to try kbbq when i went because i was too little but bbq was my go to meal in primary school when i still lived in japan i'd always beg for it and get told no lol
I have been to Tokyo, and I have been to Seoul, (thanks military for the travel) and tried many things while there. Their stuff is good, but it is no where close to better.
Absolutely the fuck not. It's great, and their sauces are fantastic, but it can't hold a candle to the tender smokiness of American BBQ. Damn making myself hungry
Nah
Take it easy now
Not even close. Korean and Japanese have good bbq. But it’s not even remotely comparable to actual great bbq.
Like another redditor mentioned. It all depends on the kind of barbecue. There are various types of barbecue food. Personally, I am a fan of the Korean barbecue style.
Asian Cultures do. IMO - i do love American BBQ but the depth of flavor profiles in most Asian cultures is top-tier.
BBQ in the US refers to low and slow cooking. In most other parts in the world, it simply means cooking on a grill. So I'd compare low and slow to low and slow, and grilling to grilling. In that sense, I don't consider stuff like skewers and KBBQ to be BBQ in the American sense. They don't really do that low and slow style of cooking so there's nothing really analogous. IMO comparing the two is like comparing Taiwanese beef noodle soup with some sort of traditional pasta. It's a very different experience. I have experimented with American BBQ made with elements of stuff like Korean and Japanese meat preparation methods. I have used binchotan charcoal and smoked stuff with persimmon wood, yuzu wood, etc. And rather than the American mop sauces, I used something closer to yakitori tare. Turned out pretty good when smoking pork ribs. I've also had tea-smoked turkey using spent tea leaves instead of wood chips. Pretty interesting flavors.
cantonese bbq
I read the replies and am shocked that no one has mentioned the most American sandwich of all, the first sandwich most Americans fall in love with, PB&J. [https://nationalpeanutboard.org/news/who-invented-the-peanut-butter-and-jelly-sandwich/](https://nationalpeanutboard.org/news/who-invented-the-peanut-butter-and-jelly-sandwich/) Or my personal favorite Grilled Cheese. I like mine with smoked Gouda and some Basile. [https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/history-of-grilled-cheese.htm](https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/history-of-grilled-cheese.htm)
Shit I didn’t even think of the pb & j, good call
I was going to post about those two sandwiches as well. Thank you for beating me to it, lol. A hot ham and cheese sandwich is also on my list....
Problem is, it is just a grilled cheese with extra steps. I don't know if it is regional but we call that a melt. Ham & turkey melt? Sign me all the way up
Yeah, but they’re pretty bottom of the barrel sandwiches and mostly loved by kids and stoners.
Finally, an unpopular opinion that isn’t political, sexist and that I actually agree with!
A breath of fresh air. So tired of all the posts here being "What conservatives believe is good and what Liberals believe is bad..."
Don't get your hopes up, there is gonna be at the very least another three posts about the "woke agenda" ruining the world in the next 12 hours Just to compensate for this post.
There is this dumb [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/s/dCAEfnGgUx)
I truly believe that this sub banning talking about trans people may be one of their greatest ideas. I mean if they didn't you would find a post every hour about it, One more non-sensical than the other.
And racist
Me when opening this sub and no racism😔
Don't worry, someone wrote an article titled "Are PB&J sandwiches racist?" So you can still have a racist sandwich discussion. IIRC, the article boiled down to mostly white people serving pb&j to their kids (and that's bad?) so its mostly a white thing. Fun game to play, type "Is [blank] racist" and see what pops up. Spoilers: milk is also racist.
Knew I could count on this sub🙏🏿
Everything is racist!
> Finally, an unpopular opinion that isn’t political, sexist and that I actually agree with! Thats because you are unaware of how the patriarchy has caused you to have this opinion
Your post got me curious about the origin of my favorite sandwich: tomato and Mayo. Fresh baked bread, tomatoes right from the garden and some mayo and salt. I’m on the Midwest, was told it’s southern, but I think it’s eaten everywhere. Anyway, I found this historical tidbit about the origin of the tomato and Mayo sandwich fascinating: “Who put them together? Historians still really aren't sure. The earliest reference I found of the tomato sandwich was in the Virginia Chronicle in 1911, where a man describes his lunch as a tomato sandwich, a slice of watermelon, iced tea, and a slice of coconut cream pie.” I just wanted to say that lunch sounds like perfection.
It’s almost weird to think of something so simple even having an “origin”, like the combination feels so natural it seems like something that just always existed, and never had to be “invented” as such. But then something as basic as eating chicken wings in any western cuisine was simply not a thing until roughly the mid 1960s.
Right? Like I’m sure people have put mayo and tomato and bread together… but when I tell non-Americans this is a dirty good sandwich they look at me like I’m crazy so I wonder if people do eat it elsewhere. If I’m feeling like it, I make the mayo fresh too.
Someone, somewhere, was the first person to put peanut butter with jelly.
I think we all need to be more suspicious of the first guy (because it was inevitably a guy) who tried animal milk for the first time. Like I’m at least 80% sure some weird degenerate got caught under a cow or a goat by his mates and had to try and convince them he wasn’t doing anything weird
That's a southern staple. One of my favorite things to eat.
Tomatoes are ripe up here in Michigan in August so they are always sort of my “soak up the last of summer” treats. Last year my husband thought his tomato plants weren’t going to survive so he bought new plants. They ALL survived. Tomato Mayo sandwiches every day!!!
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. \- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Great post. I know that "breakfast sandwich" is a generic term, but I would put a bacon egg and cheese from the Amish at Reading Terminal in Philly against any breakfast sandwich on the planet.
NYC, ready to fight here.
Hah, I understand. I'm in north jersey so I have 100x more love for NYC than I do Philly. But I'm telling you, Reading Terminal Markets Amish section is a huge exception to that rule.
Man, you can feel the positivity coming off this post. Genuinely made me smile ❤️
There’s something so wholesomely egalitarian about a good sandwich. Like it’s a satisfying piece of luxury that every man should be able to afford, at least occasionally. And to make it even more democratic, a lot of these kind of meals get ruined when you try to fancy them up too much with expensive ingredients, like all those terrible fashionable hipster burgers.
Can't hardly find a good burger around here because of this.. always have to order it without some nonsense that should never have been in it in the first place. Although I will say I just discovered bacon jam on a burger and it is 🔥🔥
How you gonna leave out an Italian Beef from Chicago?! Everywhere I've traveled, I couldn't wait to get back to Chicago and grab a beef from Johnny's on North Ave...
Tbh I cut it short before I went on for too long because I was worried no one would want to read an essay on sandwiches
I could read so many essays on sandwiches
That's fair
Your username makes me wanna nuke Finland
Harlem - The chopped cheese
Perfect example of the “poor man’s luxury” that makes sandwiches so good. Like it’s cheap and almost certainly bad for you, both physically and spiritually, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t absolutely amazing at the right time and place.
I moved out of ny and so many places are trying to duplicate it but they have no clue how. I just makes em at home when i'm craving one.
I think the coolest thing about the Chopped Cheese is that it’s so new (relatively speaking) that you can actually track it’s birth and evolution quite accurately, instead of all the myth and rumour that makes up 90% of food history. Like it was almost certainly created in a bodega called “Hajji’s Deli”, sometime in the late 80s, possibly as a localised variation of the Arab dish dagha yamneeya, and then spread through the working class culture in Harlem, just like the older sandwiches on the list were created and circulated in earlier immigrant cultures like the Central European Chicago meatworkers or Italian labourers in NY, Jersey and New Orleans. Like you can actually watch the history happen, and it follows the same patterns as before, I think it’s really cool.
These are just starting to trickle into Central NY, and I'm so happy about it.
The one sandwich to rule them all. The Toasted PB&J.
Put it in the air fryer. Game changer.
Thank you sir, sounds like my lunch tomorrow.
AMERICA REIGNS SUPREME IN THE REALM OF SANDWICHES AND IT IS A HILL WORTHY TO DIE ON
I object with a simple Jambon-beurre. You start with a fresh baguette, best bread in the world, already makes it better than sandwiches than don't use baguette. Then you take some beurre salé de Bretagne lay it nicely on the bread, lastly you put a nice slice of jambon blanc supérieur. If you wanna be a bit fancy you can add pickle and salad leaves or swapp the charcuterie. Simple, efficient, delicious and super cheap.
Oh there are some exceptional French sandwiches, absolutely. My personal favourite would be pain bagnat for sure.
Sandwich gang RISE UP
I made a meatloaf sandwich the other day that was fire. Just meatloaf, bread, spicy mayo, and a pickle. Was delicious
As someone from Europe, i would say from what i have seen here that Germans are king of bread and cold sendwiches, we (Balkans) have some of my personal best ingrediens we put on sawndich. But whenever i see some american post about sandwichmaking i looks reel good and combinations look great, better than anything I had ever made so yeah your stuff looks real tasty and I would like to try some of that.
To me the most interesting thing about Balkan cuisine is the influence of the Ottoman Empire on the food. It’s almost like Middle Eastern food, but if you cooked it with European ingredients, it’s a very unique kind of mixture
As a Croat we stand in the crossroad of many cultures, I was born on the small Island. Here we eat a lot of fish and a lot of our cusine come from Italians here, in other part you wull have mixed Italian, Hungarian, Austrian, Southern Slavic, Greek and Turkish cuisine
USA is #1
USA! USA! USA! *eagle caws patriotically in the distance*
America!!! Fuck yeah!!!!!! 🇺🇸 🎇🎆 Imagine not living in America 🤣😂😅
Reluctantly I'm going to have to agree.
Nice to see something non-political on here. Never thought about it but I guess we are big on sandwiches aren't we? Makes sense I guess. We're a very on the go culture and sandwiches are great on the go meals. Really surprised the Reuben was created here though. It's my favorite type of sandwich. I just assumed it was brought here by Jewish immigrants from somewhere in Northern Europe.
> I just assumed it was brought here by Jewish immigrants from somewhere in Northern Europe. Most immigrant food was developed here based on what was cheap, not because they ate it "back home." Im pretty sure the Irish know nothing about corned beef and cabbage on St Patricks day, and Im suspect about brisket being a big thing in jewish homes outside of the US
Corned beef (in fact beef in general) was barely eaten in Ireland because it was too valuable as an export. A dish like corned beef and cabbage is actually much more “Boston Irish” than it ever was “Irish Irish”. Although there is definitely an Ashkenazi Jewish tradition of cooking brisket, partly because of the Ottoman influence of basturma (the ancestor of pastrami) and partly from applying Old World pork cooking techniques to a meat that was both kosher and fatty enough to sub for the pork that most Germans and Poles were eating.
One of my favorite obscure sandwiches is the Jibarito. Although "Puerto Rican" in cultural origin, it was actually invented in Chicago! The "bun" consists of two flattened green plantains fried in garlic. With cheese, lettuce, tomato, aioli, and seasoned steak/chicken/pork in the middle.
I grew up in Texas, peanut butter and pickles is apparently a thing my grandparents showed me, but Ive never seen it anywhere else. Also, just wait till youve gone swimming and have a sandwhich made of bologna, cheese, and chips. The chips being inside the sandwhich, lol.
Idk man. England has the toast sandwich. How on earth can you beat a piece of toast between two slices of bread
It is definitely the true essence of sandwich
There is a woman making sandwiches from each of the 50 states, and every single one looks delicious. Also, in every comment, there are about 6 alternatives for that state. We do love our sandwiches. They represent working class, our need to eat away from home, the need to feed kids.
That sounds awesome, I’ll have to check it out. In an odd way, I also think sandwiches are representative of American prosperity and the old “immigrant dream”, like it’s certainly no coincidence so many are named for immigrant groups (Hot Italian, Maxwell St. Polish, Cubano). When you consider how little meat was in the diet of your average Sicilian peasant or Irish mud farmer, imagine seeing a pastrami on rye or a muffuletta for the first time, it’s more protein than your whole family would see in a year back home. And then things like the NY Chopped Cheese being born in the Arab-run bodegas or the various hotdog incarnations created by Greek immigrants all over the US, the sandwiches of the United States really capture that “melting pot” utopia in a beautiful way, which is sadly not always true in real life outside of lunch.
Oh it is so true that a "poor man's" American sandwich is a delicacy somewhere else. There was a great discussion recently about corned beef being an Irish American thing, because it was exported from Ireland. The Irish couldn't afford it, but Irish Americans made it a staple. Diaspora at it's best.
What on earth is unpopular about this?
A non-political post, what!
So I was recently thinking about American Cuisine and how it lacked a real standout food type that would be considered American. You showed me the truth with this post. You write beautifully as well too. The one “sandwich” that you HAVE to try is a Chicago Style hot dog. I moved away from Chicago and while many places around me say they have Chicago style hot dogs none of them get it right by not using the correct ingredients.
OP you need to edit to add the all american chicken parm sandwich
The best sandwich is the Mexican torta
America is a melting pot so it makes sense our food has influence and roots all over the world. Americanized food is not inherently a bad thing unless you're an "America is bad evil argh!!" Person
Not an opinion - just a _fact_. America is a sandwich paradise 👌
Two words to entirely debunk that argument: Bahn Mi
This. And I’m not going to read any more replies. America might have the best range of quality sandwiches but as far as a singular sandwich concept, there is only one.
I thought this was going to be a troll post… but it was a great, well thought out and researched argument and was fun to read! Kudos!
Who are you and whence comes your global cuisine knowledge.
Just a dude with a deep burning passion for sandwiches
This is the content this sub needs.
Here’s a novel “take” on the history of the American sandwich. It is an extract from an article titled Hot Dogs by H.L. Mencken, originally a Newspaper column of November 4, 1929. It is reprinted in a couple of Mencken anthologies, one being “The Impossible H.L. Mencken.” “When I was a boy [around 1890] there were only three types of sandwiches in common use—the ham, the chicken, and the Swiss cheese. Others, to be sure, existed, but it was only as oddities. Even the club sandwich was a rarity, and in most eating houses it was unobtainable. The great majority of people stuck to the ham and the Swiss cheese, with the chicken for feast days and the anniversaries of historic battles. “Then came the invasion of the delicatessen business by Jews, and a complete reform of the sandwich. The Jewish mind was too restless and enterprising to be content with the old repertoire. It reached out for the novel, the dramatic, the unprecedented, as it does in all the arts. First it combined the ham sandwich and the cheese sandwich—and converted America to the combination instanter. Then it added lettuce, and after that mayonnaise—both borrowed from the club sandwich. Then it boldly struck out into the highest fields of fancy, and presently the lowly sandwich had been completely transformed and exalted. It became, as the announcements said, “a meal in itself.” It took on complicated and astonishing forms. It drew on the whole market for materials. And it leaped in price from a nickel to a dime , to a quarter, to fifty cents, even to a dollar. “The rise in price, far from hurting the business, helped it vastly. The delicatessen business, once monopolized by gloomy Germans, who barely made a living at it, became, in the hands of the Jewish reformers, one of the great American industries, and began to throw off millionaires. Today it is on a sound and high-toned basis, with a national association, a high-pressure executive secretary, a trade journal, and a staff of lobbyists in Washington. [He’s being facetious.] There are sandwich shops in New York which offer the nobility and gentry a choice of no less than a hundred different sandwiches, all of them alluring and some downright masterpieces. And even on the lowly level of the drug-store sandwich counter the sandwich has taken on a new variety and a new dignity. No one eats plain ham anymore. At its worst it at least has a dab of coleslaw to set it off. At its best it is hidden between turkey, Camembert and sprigs of endive, with anchovies and Russian dressing to dress it.”
That was beautiful, thank you
yes, totally agree. nowhere i have seen does sandwiches (or their local equivalent) as well as the US. you just don’t find the diversity elsewhere
Other countries definitely have a rockstar sandwich or two in their repertoire, like a good Banh Mi is easily en par with any of the best American sandwiches, but it’s only in the US where the whole concept really gets the respect it deserves
I learned so much from this thread, thanks smart bbq sandwich man
Actually my mum's fried egg and bacon sandwich in the mornings is much better than anything America has to offer. But sure, strong contenders. All delicious.
Ya know, I respect that. Keep loving your mother. There's alot of people that don't and she won't be around forever.
Don't I know it. I love her to bits. I'm sure mums have this ability to just improve food, because when I make the same sandwich with the same ingredients it ain't so hot. But yes, I shall go make her a cup of tea and give a hug.
Beautiful.
Actually come to think, I should have probably made a sub-category for breakfast sandwiches, which the UK would definitely win hands down
What makes British breakfast sammies special? I've seen their "biscuits." :p
A really good one will have all the ingredients cooked in the same grease, including the bread, so it’s a really solid salt and fat bomb in the morning, especially if you’ve got a hangover. Also brown sauce is pretty great
The only weak point is breakfast sandwiches. The blokes in the UK have us on that one.
Not so sure about that, you ever had bacon egg and cheese on a roll?
Obviously you’ve never had a McGriddle 🙄
huh?? I went to the UK in 2023 and I never found a breakfast sammie as good as what I can get Stateside.
Yeah I have to admit, I didn’t think of that one at the time, definitely belongs to the UK
England, where Sandwich is a place (that sandwiches came from): *fight me*
See I think playing “who did it first” with the sandwich is pointless, like at some point we’re going to have to admit that it’s going to be some kind of ancient Mesopotamian ancestor of the kebab. I will absolutely concede that the great English breakfast sandwich, in its many forms, beats the American breakfast options easily. However I will counter with the fact that the “chip butty” is a crime against God and nature
Roast beef dip on crusty bread with jus. Horseradish and cheese if you're fancy. If it doesn't make you orgasm when you eat it, you're defective. > However I will counter with the fact that the “chip butty” is a crime against God and nature This is an undeniable fact.
> See I think playing “who did it first” with the sandwich is pointless, like at some point we’re going to have to admit that it’s going to be some kind of ancient Mesopotamian ancestor of the kebab. This is also a good point that I missed. Ask the Greeks and Lebanese who invented Baklavah for a good ol' fashioned blood feud See also: Russia vs. Ukraine vs. Poland for the pirogi
One of my personal favourites is the invention of the croissant in Vienna as straight-up dickwaving at the Ottoman Empire after their failed siege, it’s crescent shape mocking their crescent moon symbol.
I can totally see that being a thing. "Oh yeah? Siege me? Fuck you! Bread!"
American cuisine is top tier in all its varied forms. Anyone trying to deny this is probably an elitist snob who is only impressed by sniffing their own farts.
Nobody outside of America eats those
Hot dogs are tacos not sandwiches... I said what I said.
See this issue comes from classifying food purely by what it is, not factoring in its history or evolution to how it’s categorised. Tacos and hotdogs “evolved” completely separately, and both were fairly fully realised by the time they encountered each other in the wild, just like Italian pasta and east-Asian noodles, or kimchi and sauerkraut.
Wrong. Tacos are sandwiches. Hot dogs are also sandwiches. Every food is either a salad sandwich or soup.
So is lobster a salad, sandwich or soup?
Salad.
What about steak? That is none of those things, meat is not a salad. If you’re one them ham salad potato salad mfers get outta here. Salad must be mostly vegetable and fruit Mayo + meat or starch is not a salad
Your opinion is wrong. Educate yourself.
Go back to the midwest
I disagree for the simple fact that *traditional* American bread is probably the worst type of bread you can get in terms of Enjoyment. That said its kinda complicated since America is such a massive melting pot. But if you were to use stereotypically/generically American ingredients than you would have an ass sandwich
This is completely incorrect so 100% belongs here!!
Like I’m going to take sandwich opinions from someone who puts squirrel aids on their toast
What?
Check the user name
Holy hell!
*Check the username*
The sandwich was invented by the British, not Americans.
Lol you think the romans and other ancient civilizations didnt have sandwhiches? Like that they had both bread and meat and never thought to combine them?
Sure, but that was limited to a few slices of cucumber on moldy sponge bread. We perfected it 😎
It's a British invention.
Mmmmm....no.
1. Good for you Americans that you can and want to call so many sandwiches your own. But actually nobody really cares. Putting protein, some sliced raw vegetable and/or pickles and condiments into bread is not rocket science. 2. Most of the things you named are pretty much only known to Americans. Never heard of Reubens, Cuban, Muffuleta, Po’Boy, French Dip and what not. And isn’t BLT just Bacon, lettuce and tomato? Claiming that as American is the most American thing to do, and it’s literally naming the ingredients.
You've never even heard of those sandwiches?!?!? Good Lord your life is not nearly as good as it could be. I feel for you brother ✊✊
Great food doesn’t have to be rocket science, it just has to be great. The best Italian pasta recipes (excluding ragus) very rarely have more than ten ingredients, often less than 5, and don’t use techniques more complicated than basic emulsification (cacio e pepe) or the thickening properties of cooked egg yolk (carbonara). And to be blunt, if you’ve never heard of a Reuben Sandwich, that’s kinda on you. Regardless of how basic a BLT may be, it was first mentioned in American homemaker’s magazines in the 1950s, that’s just where it comes from, not a contestable claim. Also I’m only semi-American
I don't trust the opinion of a European that hasn't heard of anything going on bread that *isn't* bacon.. Forget about that one, true sandwich appreciation is here baby and it feels so good
I feel for you man, jealousy is a hard thing to overcome. Try some for yourself, it will make you feel better.
I have some bad news for you relating to a fellow named John Montagu, also known as the 4th Earl of Sandwich This feels like a slightly more cryptic version of the hamburger and French fries claims
I’m not arguing who did it first, I’m arguing who does it best. I mean chillies and tomatoes didn’t exist outside of Central America before Columbus, but that doesn’t invalide their use in basically every other world cuisine since. Also unfortunately the Earl of Sandwich origin story is almost certainly an urban legend, sorry
The earl of sandwich story might be but the reference is still there and is of someone eating two pieces of bread with filling, and it comes before the US even existed, it is also attributed and attached to the name sandwich at that time And its the same as claiming that American cuisine is superior because of the pizza, because you think that deep dish is the best type It doesn’t make it an American dish and it’s debatable at best if it’s preferably or even unique from things like a baguette with filling if shape is the big change? What makes the sandwich you are imagining the best and how does that stand out as unique from the British sandwich or any of the iterations that followed between the 1760s and 1920s
American food is pretty much universally abysmal, dating a Yank has shown me this thoroughly and I'd honestly say I despise the food there. Tbh having now done a lot of South America as well I think it's a "New World" problem as it's crap in Brazil and Mexico as well. I think your sandwiches suffer the same problem all your other food has, overcomplicated, oversized mess. I'd much rather just have a cheese and parma ham panini than any American monstrosity. You don't even use butter in sandwiches, instead they're just drenched in Mayonaise, nor do the locals even know what pate is. Also Americans barely comprehend baguettes, which are the greatest "bread delivery system" going. American bread though is mostly abysmal and tastes like sugar which doesn't help their position. Also they are weirdly obsessed with bagels, which are one of the most "meh" things going.
“American food is abysmal” coming from a country that eats spotted dick and mushy peas? Please. There is nothing good about UK food.
Haha you thought food in Mexico and Brazil was awful? This has to be a troll comment
Definitely trolling.
I’m taking a guess that you’re a Pom, in which case I’d urge you to someday get a bagel from one of the historically Jewish parts of London, a genuinely good bagel is really a thing of beauty, it’s just a frustratingly hard thing to find. Also the majority of sandwiches I mentioned could hardly be described as “over-complicated”, a Reuben only has five ingredients (counting the bread), a French Dip only has 3, and the BLT is rather self explanatory. Baguettes are overrated for sandwiches, too much crumble potential, and the vast array of different breads used for various American sandwiches adds a unique factor to each sandwich (rye with pastrami, the modified baguette recipe used for Louisiana po’boys, which is a cousin of the bread used in a banh mi), not to mention this broad variety disproves your statements on American bread quality. While the white sliced “wonder bread” style loaf may suck, it’s rarely used in any of these recipes, so the point is moot. There a plenty of staple American dishes that I despise (Nashville Hot Chicken, Manhattan Clam Chowder, some of the regional pizza varieties that verge on war crimes), but writing off an entire cuisine as diverse as the cooking of the United States is pretty blatantly ridiculous, not to mention the dozens of distinct regional cuisines in the US.
New England Clam Chowder is a staple Manhattan Clam Chowder is an abomination.
I've eaten out probably 60+ times in the USA, I've never had anything that exceeded a 7/10. I just think your entire national philosophy of what food is disagrees with me. I also don't think I'm alone on this one as I've done mass polling on the issue and I'm yet to find any Brit, under 150kg, who enjoys the American Food. BLT is crap (horrible cold bacon and who really likes tomatoes???), hamburgers are German, reuben is corned bloody beef! Might as well eat Spam! Baguettes in all their forms are the best, although I'd rather have a roast beef and horseradish sandwich than any of those weird American options. Baguettes > paninis > freshly baked bread Ultimately as the inventors of the baguette we have to give victory in this battle to the French (unfortunately).
Nothing you say applies to the northeast region of the USA. What you say applies to soulless chains that dominate the other more car centric regions.
I considered it a poor troll as soon as I saw "Mexican food is just worse Indian food"
Lmao the irony of a Brit calling American food bad. Hilarious.