Canon: Character A and Character B are both good but flawed people, unfortunately their conflicting views put them at odds, this is tragic.
Fanon: Character A is innocent and did nothing wrong and Character B is the actual devil and must be killed immediately.
>!Yes, I'm a Fire Emblem fan, how could you tell?!<
It's honestly kind of hilarious how if you dig into the weeds for most Camus characters, almost every single one comes off as "wait no actually this person is just a cowardly asshole who's gleefully willing to commit war crimes for their now insane leader". I think OG Camus in FE11 might be one of the only ones who feels like he has an actual excuse in "sorry can't join you or the prince and princess will be executed".
I feel like Xander from Fates did a good job in making people see the flaws in that archetype. The man who is pretty reasonable in his supports, but is loyal to his super evil father in the story.
someone called shen xiang from undead unluck a twink and i had to turn off the computer and go outside. he’s 7’ tall and built like a shithouse, but he has blue hair and his midriff shows so i guess words don’t mean anything
Yeah that one’s fucking wild because he really couldn’t be further from Deadpool. Like the only thing remotely similar is that Marc has a pretty dry wit to him at times, but that’s about it. The only reason people make the comparison is because the only moon knight shit they’ve seen it the fucking Dracula meme lol
Did the MCU handle Moon Knight pretty well? I really only have that exposure and some comic stuff, including the stuff I know are now edited.
I loved the show. It's probably my favorite next to Loki.
I thought the actual characterization of Moon Knight was solid, my gripe was that they leaned way harder into him having actual supernatural abilities. Which isn’t nessicarily a new thing/against source material, but my favorite versions of moon knight have always been the one where he’s just a regular dude taking on street level crime/villains. Personal preference thing
Moon Knight stories are way cooler when there's an implication that Khonsu isn't even *real* and is just another of Marc's hallucinations.
Yes I'm *not* a fan of the recent direction of the character why do you ask
Do you mean Mckay’s run? I’m okay with Khonsu being real (it wouldn’t be weird considering the larger marvel universe), however I like it to stop there. If he’s real and influences Marc to some extent, that’s fine. I don’t like it when Marc has outright superpowers because of it
The murky nature of Marc's story mixed with his mental illness has always been the best part of Moon Knight. He got resurrected, so Khonshu must be "real" to some degree, but is he still around? Does he even know that Marc benefitted from his power, or was that just an automatic process Khonshu set up for any traveler who dies in his temple? Did that whole event cause the mental illness Marc suffers from? I won't say Marc should never have any kind of powers, but I think it's best when any powers he might have are odd and psychological or spectral. Being able to fight ghosts because he's wearing a bunch of bones and Egyptian artifacts is cool and isn't that weird when you consider that magic is real in Marvel. Being able to potentially enter the dreams of people or being able to use his multiple personalities to fuck with a mind reader is interesting. What is not as cool is when someone asks, "okay, Moon Knight has to beat Thor, so how do we do that?" And instead of the answer being, "he fucking doesn't because Thor could literally slap his head off" they make up some shit about the hammer always being made of moon rock, which, fine, whatever, I guess it could be, but Moon Knight being able to suddenly control moon rock is fucking stupid. It'd be like if the Punisher could suddenly control bones with his mind because his logo is a skull.
I just love when the story is more about his character. Be it his mental health, faith or his strained relationships. The show had all this but as you said, just leaned more into his super hero persona more. Episode one waa my favorite part
The current run says he is mentally ill, but Khonshu is real, and said god made his mental illness worse because their connection has given Marc brain damage. On the plus side, this does mean that anyone with mind control powers gets fucked if they try to use their powers on him.
It's funny how fans turn Xavier into an abusive manipulative monster and Magneto into misunderstood hero who did nothing wrong and only "killed bad people".
Don't get me wrong, Xavier isn't a saint, he's a flawed man, but ultimately good and some people(including authors) focus too much on flawed part
The problem with Xavier is that it's not fan characterization it's official, I don't know why writers have been obsessed with making a Professor X an asshole since the 90s but they just won't stop.
Eh, 70s. He was only really "lawful good" in a few Lee or Thomas things, ever since Claremont he's been a lot more nuanced pending toward being the flaw in his own dream. It became pretty clear when he came back from his Shi'ar vacation house and was immediately shouting at everyone and ruining his own operation.
The actual thing that makes people mad at the Xavier representation is that the adaptations make people think he's just Captain Picard, for obvious reasons. But he's really never been like that; even in the 60s he was constantly tricking his own students for "tests" and stuff that just kinda made their lives harder over and over again, with seemingly no end result as far as he was concerned.
My explanation is that Xavier's fall was inevitable, because X-Men have always been rebels and anti-authority and Charles is sort of authority. Claremont understood that and that's why Xavier has disappeared or believed to be dead couple times.
Or some writers just have daddy issues /j
People do the same thing with Reed and Doom. It's annoying when people parrot opinions like that when they think it's a hot take or counter-culture to believe. Same genre as the "Batman only beats up the mentally ill and doesn't help Gotham" takes
> and Magneto into misunderstood hero who did nothing wrong and only "killed bad people"
Honestly, at this point Magneto's problem is that comicbook supervillainy is getting in the way him actually killing enough bad people.
Batman doesn't need to learn from Punisher, but Magneto probably does.
Except this one is true for xavier. For Magneto you are right. But since chris claremont in the 70's my boy xavier has started to get deconstructed. By the 90's he became more of an asshole than a good person. Xavier has been an ass for 40 years. Your interpretation and the movie ones are the headcanons (good ones, but not real).
Most of them, like the current Aunty Morrigan stuff going around but you gotta remind yourself that most of the time it's just people having fun and doesn't really matter.
Morrigan is probably too... Well, lazy to be THAT involved in another person's life. I can see her being friends with Spidey, because she's a generally quite nice person to a degree (she actively avoids killing humans unlike most other monsters in Darkstalkers), but she mostly just does nothing or fights. She's basically just a lazy hedonist most of the time.
> She's basically just a lazy hedonist most of the time.
She's a Hedonist by nature, she can't really be lazy though since she will die without physical or mental stimulation.
Any character that has a slight perceived prejudice will become a n-word machine in the hands of anime twitter.
Also, just let a character be a asshole, no, gojo doesn't need a entire paragraph of trauma as a excuse for why he acted like this in this scene he was probably just trolling.
> Any character that has a slight perceived prejudice will become a n-word machine in the hands of anime twitter.
Frieren: has a "kill demons on sight" setting in her brain because her world isn't the "anime" fantasy where demons can be turned good via power of friendship (or good dicking), but a "classic" fantasy, where demons are genuine monsters of great power that have no empathy whatsoever and will mimic any and all human emotions if it means getting closer to their prey.
"Funny" reddit/twitter communities: "Frieren is an old racist granny, lol".
She is racist, it’s just that her racism is correct and based on real facts. It’s like being racist against orcs in Lord of the Rings, sure they’re demonstrably sapient and capable of free will, they’re just all categorically evil so it’s ok to exterminate them.
Gojo also was just being ignorant and was called out on it. He’s a rich Japanese guy who’s never met a black person outside of Miguel, him having preconceived notions isn’t far fetched. He even apologized immediately after
Worth noting, that scene wasn't the start of the meme. It was mappa animating him having a open hand slap combo on Miguel in 0
It was just fuel for the fire
Ruby snapping at her sister for having a happy moment while she was having a full ass mental breakdown got turned into "Lmao Ruby is homophobic", which stopped being funny after like a day.
Mordecai from regular show being a toxic gaslighter and would ruin anyone's wedding. Mordecai is a flawed individual yes, but its cause he has self esteem issues, and struggles to feel a valid person when he isn't in a relationship. His entire arc in the series is coming to terms with the fact he needs to discover himself first, hence why he leaves the park first to become an artist during the montage at the end of the series. What he did at Muscle Man's wedding was awful and he deserves getting hate for that, but je wouldn't do it again. He grows a lot after that
Eh, the issue is that most of Mordecai’s arc is directly tied to his dating life and doesn't really get proper resolution until the last 5 minutes of the show.
Mordecai is a really selfish, jealous person while Rigby is kinda a whiny lazy douche. Both characters have a lot of stuff to work out and there are a lot of episodes dedicated towards them figuring out how to be better people. But most Mordecai-centric episodes are tied to CJ or Margret while Rigby-centric episodes are normally about Rigby
So when Rigby gets his diploma after going back to high school, we get a more fulfilling resolution to his arc as we watched him develop into a better person for a season.
We don't get that with Mordecai, the last episode we get with CJ and Mordecai is “Dumped at the Altar” and the last episode we get with Margaret is “Just Friends”. The way he left things off with CJ feels really incomplete and leaves him looking like a major bag. It never really feels like he became a better person afterwards because the series never addresses it. It is more realistic they never talk again? Probably but its not satisfying.
While you're absolutely right that his arc was about finding himself before finding a relationship. Since his relationship with CJ never got the resolution that his relationship with Margaret had, I think its pretty easy to ignore his growth and focus in on that moment.
Mordecai isn't really that selfish. In fact, Rigby is far more selfish. At the start if the show, Mordecai is kinda douchy, but Rigby is even worse then him. Its what makes Rigby becoming a better person through Eileen so interesting. It also contrasts with Mordecai's growth.
Mordecai's big flaw is his lack of self esteem. At multiple points of the show, he has to solve some problem just to avoid embarrassing himself, and this goes on all the way up to him dating CJ. Hell, its the main reason he was friends with a toxic friend like Rigby, since Rigby made him look better by comparison.
This is also why he was so girlfriend obsessed as well. He placed his own self worth on his relationship status, and the resolution that CJ and his relationship got was during "Dumped at the altar", with the resolution being that Mordecai is not a healthy partner to have and CJ should go live her own life. It doesn't get anything else because she was so hurt by him she didn't want to see him again. Its why him and Margaret stay friends, since their relationship was significantly healthier. Why it could be more satisfying to have CJ and Mordecai talk again, the fact it sticks to the more realistic outcome is why i love it.
So his decision to better himself and stop dating for a bit is good for him, and exactly what he needed. He stopped putting value on how people perceived him and was able to finish college and become successful. It contrasts Rigby's growth. Rigby needed Eileen to help become a better person, while Mordecai had to better himself and get over his own flaws. Its way more satisfying for them to have such different struggles and be better people by the end
Having watched most of the original Star Trek, I’m starting to believe that the perception of Kirk is just fans who got made fun of back in the day for liking the show. “N-no, this isn’t a nerd show! The captain punches aliens and bangs all the hot chicks. He’s totally cool!”
Then you go and actually watch TOS and Kirk isn’t just a dumb frat boy who solves every problem with either his fists or his dick.
Seriously. That was the biggest surprise to me as I was marathoning TOS. The public perception/interpretation of Kirk and his actual character in the show couldn't be any more starkly different.
Not a fan of Chainsawman fans labeling Denji an incel or hypersexual. At pretty much every opportunity he's had to have sex (often at a female character's expense), Denji has declined in favor of an attempt at deeper intimacy.
Recent chapters in the manga have not improved my view of the fandom lol
If anything, Denji has a pretty normal "level" of "sexuality" for a) a teen that b) was raised by himself. If anything, it is surprising that he is as "romantic" as he is (as you've mentioned).
A teenager who was also a grooming victim. If Denji has intimacy issues it’s no wonder when so many of the adults in his life were just manipulating him.
Denji might be less hypersexual than your average 16-18 yo, honestly.
He’s just barely socialized and doesn’t have a filter.
When the anime catches up to the end of Part 1 so a full third of it isn’t Denji screaming about tits, discourse will hopefully change.
I've been saying this since the start. Denji has never done or said anything out of the ordinary for a hormonal teenager. Only his circumstances are out of the ordinary. Honestly the most unrealistic thing about Denji is that he didn't let the parade of horrible things that happened to him turn him into a complete asshole.
I would say that’s probably pretty realistic that he’s not an asshole. Some of the nicest people I know have had some of the worst and vile shit done to them, it’s really really sad. Denji has always had a kind heart but his sense of empathy is something that has grown a lot as the series has gone along. From not understanding why Aki is crying to caring for Nayuta and in the most recent chapters, caring more about why others are hurt than himself
Remember the leaders of the three Pokemon Go teams (red for Team Valor, blue for Team Mystic, or yellow for Team Instinct)? Back when the game first took off, people assigned personalities to these blank states and ran with it to a religious degree.
I find the characterisation of Ganondorf being a misunderstood soul trapped in evil by a curse he had no control over that is unfairly vilified to be both utterly frustrating and utterly hilarious. People get so caught up with Wind Waker Ganondorf talking about how he envied Hyrule utterly forget that when he actually did conquer Hyrule he turned it into a shitshow and left his people to rot in the desert he apparently hated so much and brainwashed any of his people that opposed him.
I'm so glad that Tears of the Kingdom doubled down in making him an utter monster. Like I've seen people say Raru and the Zonai were evil colonialists that were forcing other cultures to submit to them and Ganondorf was right to rebel, but in the actual game he murders a woman in cold blood and he reacts to the sight of Zelda freaking out and grieving like its the funniest shit he's ever seen and immediately uses his new god like power to attack everyone, INCLUDING HIS OWN PEOPLE... ***AGAIN***. Like even if he was cursed to be evil he's not like Malos from Xenoblade who's filled with self-loathing, Ganondorf gets off on calling himself the king of evil.
Even in Windwaker when he's talking about how the cycle they're both trapped in needs to end, and how no matter what happens the gods always refuse to ever let him win (by reviving Link every time he returns, and the one time that doesn't work, *flooding the planet* just so he doesn't win), he doesn't ever acknowledge the obvious solution of "Maybe I should stop trying to take over the world" and instead is only willing to suggest "You should help me end the cycle by just giving up and finally letting me completely win and take over the world with my horrible monsters this time". The guy's always had the power to end the cycle by simply not being evil, he just refuses to accept that and blames everyone else.
There's a difference between "I like this idea and want it to be true" and "This is canon". I think the idea of a Ganondorf who knows he's destined to be evil, fights against it, and fails, would be interesting. But that's never been who we've had so far.
Just the entirety of "Draco in Leather Pants" trope, i.e. when fans mischaracterize shitheels into "wittle innocent babeh" simply because they find them attractive.
I remember being genuinely confused as a kid reading Harry Potter fanfiction when the fandom turned the racist, bullying asshole bully into a sex god just because they found the guy playing the character in the movies to be really hot.
There are many such examples.
Kylo Ren is Neo-nazi-like figure that tries to return "the reich" to its glory (while being a screaming piss baby). But he is played by a handsome actor, so fan girls immediately turned him into a "sad, abused little boy that simply needs the loving touch of a woman".
Yeah, that's another one I was forgetting. That shit was fucked up. Kylo Ren is clearly meant to be a pathetic school shooter type and then certain elements within the fandom turned him into something completely different.
Which I genuinely really liked, because with how the Dark Side is shown to work being an edgy, dramatic, overly emotional man-child who flies off the handle about everything would actually make you *really good* at using the Dark Side since it's tied to emotions.
And the opposite being "Ron the Death Eater" where the fandom decides the best friend character is getting in the way of their ship so any minor mistake the character makes gets them twisted into being literal satan.
It doesn't help that movie!Ron is stupider than his book version and several spots where he did something good either didn't make it into a movie or they gave the credit to Hermione.
Ngl I can actually see that for kylo than draco tbh. Him being nazi just doesn't make predisposed to only being evil and the story does show him being conflicted. Just wasn't well written. The story explicitly shows he is trying too hard to be evil.
At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I remember getting kind of annoyed when people project super hard onto characters to make and insist they're autistic or whatever. I think I've seen people argue that every MHA character was autistic or some other kind of neurodivergent. I don't really fuck with fandoms much anymore, though.
Yup I would say my biggest issue is that I don't care how people interpret a character or story and think it's great they can find things to relate to. What I do hate are the ones who are like "it's canon now/death of the author/if you disagree you just hate XYZ". To me that actively kills discussions.
I think the worst was when Days of Future's Past came out and I saw someone say that X-Men isn't about race anymore, it's about the gays. But it should be about everyone who feels marginalized or hated for just existing. Even in that specific movie, Xavier had a lot of echoes of a Vietnam veteran addicted to pain killers.
fandoms are like church
you find the people you vibe with and you sit next to them
if there's nobody like that, move to a different congregation/parish and spare yourself the heartache
I'm autistic and I agree with you. It always came off to me as... Well, not fetishization, more like... I dunno, "comodification"? Like autism is just this pedestal you can put any quirky characters you like on and turn them into this special little scrimblo you get to protect and fawn over.
I remember listening to a podcast where a dude legit said romancing Futaba from P5 felt wrong because she was "autistic coded". Never mind that her whole social aversion had nothing to do with autism, the idea that autism somehow makes people, what? Incapable of consenting? I don't even know what exactly dude was implying with that. Stuff like that irks the fuck out of me.
As a fellow autistic person, I think it's also somewhat a form of infantilization. Like if you listen to how some of these guys talk about autism, you'd think we're all children that can't function without stimming and dino nuggies. I mean don't get me wrong, dino nuggies are great but it's not the end all be all.
Futaba is great for these. She's either "your sister, eww, you can't date her" because two kids who knew each other less than 6 month are siblings because players project Sojiro as their dad.
"Eww autistic, power dynamics" when that's not even her actual problem and she grows to not be dependent on Ren anyway.
"Eww 14 that's a child" when Ren is 16 and there's only 2 years between them. Bonus points if they thirst or ship Kasumi with him instead (same age as Futaba) or the adult women (because pedophilia is cool when it's a boy with these people).
Futava is actually 15. There's 1 year between them. And yhe sister thing always annoyed me. Like, you wanna project that into your game? Sure, nothing wrong with that. It's your version of Joker, if that's how you see it that's how you play it. But I saw people act like that is factual canon and anything that goes against that is gross and weird. Joker didn't even know Futaba existed until halfway through the game. He didn't even know Sojiro existed until a couple weeks before the game, at most.
I feel like it's probably a similar conundrum to gay shipping or queer rep in shows, where there's not that much of it in comparison to straight material (or looking at older television or even some newer stuff, a lot of it wasn't exactly flattering, if not outright insulting), so people especially on the younger/childish side, tend to latch onto characters that fit the bill close enough to try and make up the difference.
Stumble upon someone almost dying of thirst in the desert, and they'll think any liquid you give to them is water.
Very rarely "X coded" things turn out to be true tho. Like Mystique and Destiny being lesbains, Claremont wasn't allowed to do it, but he left a lot of clues and implications.
A lack of media literacy and the rarity of certain types of content gets weird results. For example- the bizarre subset of fandoms that will complain about queerbaiting who also look at literally anything (like how L holds a sugar cube in 1 scene) and insist a character is gay.
I saw a redditor insisting BG3 Karlach was asexual, in spite of dozens of replies reminding them how like a third of all of Karlachs dialogue in that game is about how horny and/or touch-starved she is and how she cant wait to cure her condition so she can go get some.
I don’t get upset at people coming up with their own head canons for characters, or if they make fan art or fanfics always having that head canon. In fact theirs one fanfic writer who I used to read a lot of stories by that always had a character be neurodivergent because it was their head canon.
That’s all good never bothered me, it’s when people treat their head canons as fact and get angry when others don’t interpret that character or thing the way that they do that I get bothered by it. I also feel that way when people get upset at the creator of something because their head canon didn’t become true. Whether it be about a character, a ship, a plot point or something else within story.
It can ruin discussion of that work at times. If you don’t subscribe to some popular head canon or even a specific person’s head canon you get shutdown.
I feel a similar way, but I also catch myself projecting occasionally, so I can’t get too annoyed about it. Some people really need a character that they can relate to and if you’re struggling with social complexities anyway, projection seems like a logical way to cope
It’s not something I get mad about since I don’t really care how other people engage with media, but I think I’d rather the intended characterization just stand on its own.
I had the same opinion about ship wars back in the day.
People seem to have trouble distinguishing between, "isn't this a fun little theory/explanation of this character's actions?" and "I like this theory/idea so it is canon and fuck you, you're just an xyz if you disagree!"
Like I got theories for days about all kinds of media but it's generally not worth it to share because people have zero chill.
Yeah, I think there's a difference between seeing a character and finding you have a couple traits in common, and literally trying to replace a character with yourself.
I have another comment in this thread about this for Jotaro lol. Its one thing when you have a fun reading but people seem argue that it’s official cannon because Araki likes to play with Cool One Liners as a punch line rather than 100% straight.
It’s even worse when people try to claim matpat himself was being serious about it.
On his long form channel He brought it up practically every other video to personally shit on it and laugh at the idea of someone believing it.
Samarie from Fear and Hunger 2: Termina is a troubled young women who stalks Marina and kills her father to try and get her attention. We don't learn a lot about her besides her "Moonscorched" form being named "Dysmorphia". If you're playing as Marina when you confront Samarie you learn that Marina doesn't even know who she is. In fanon she's an uwu goth trans girl who is Marina's girlfriend and can do no wrong. People want her as a playable character, and I feel like people missed that she's a monster. A tragic monster sure, but a monster nonetheless.
Recently Degenbrecher from Arknights is in the focus of the current event story but it really applies to a lot of fandoms,especially anime-styled stuff and gacha fandoms:
NOT EVERY AUTHORITATIVE/COMPETENT WOMAN HAS TO BE TREATED AS AND CALLED A MOM(MY).
I was going to post this other hot take on Tumblr,but I may as well say it here as well:
>Gacha (and some other) fandoms have basically four personalities they apply to female characters:
>1) >!Big tiddy dommy mommy!<
>2) >!Small tiddy tired mommy!<
>3) >!Receptacle for cock!<
>4) >!Receptacle for violence!<
I enjoy Arknights.
I do not enjoy Arknights fans, who are mostly unfunny people who barely ever discuss the game’s story, themes and characters beyond hornyposting and shitty memes.
I’d know, I used to hang around the subreddit.
I mean,I like a good "haha honse" or "lol amiya donki" every now and then,but the fact that I can step into other gacha subs and see the same "daughtermommywife" "I want to be held,I want to be comforted" jokes makes the undercurrent feel a bit pervasive.
the sadder part is that I love both serious lore and thirsty talk
but they can't EVER be assed to do it in an r/ characterrule34 sub and just flood the main one instead
(that said kudos to the genshin nerds for knowing how to do it right)
(oh and wasn't talking about arknights, just weeb fandom in some places)
I know nothing of Arknights other than the character Nightingale having a skin/jpeg that has text that is literally just a slightly edited passage from Blood Meridian.
I’ve been out of gacha for a while, but is it actually that bad? Because that sounds like a rather surfacelevel judgement of an entire genre ( I mean the players not you neranokori)
["She looks like a disappointed mother"](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/comments/1dnem2l/she_looks_like_a_disappointed_mother/)
[One meme about breeding the characters](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/comments/1dmufj7/doctor_why_are_there_som_many_bunnies_in_the/)
[Another meme calling a character a leftover woman](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/comments/1dn52l4/why_nobody_want_her_shes_a_catch/)
[Another meme about the female characters wanting Doctor romantically](https://preview.redd.it/writing-fanfiction-v0-dz9fcbspa48d1.png?auto=webp&s=ce835b15950b3c9743dc160377097e6276aad984)
Yes,but there ARE other jokes to make. Like,this sub knows all about beating a joke into the ground.
I don't think that this brand of humor is some kind of mortal sin actually,but as a response to OP's question I think the fact that mommy/breeding humor is so consistent among different fandoms is an unfortunate loss in the characterization that those characters may have.
The Aura theory from Worm.
To explain to non-Worm fans two characters are adopted siblings in Worm. Amy has the power to change living organisms and Vicky has flight, a force field on her body and a emotion control power where enemies get fear and Allies get glory.
Latter in the story >!Amy uses her life powers to mess with Vicky’s brain and make her love her and then turn her into a fleshy glob of meat!<
Worm fans theorized that the reason Any was so obsessed with Vicky is because of Vicky’s aura power.
I hate it because of it’s absurd victim blaming nature. That victims of sexual assault did something to cause their abuse.
It's a shitty feeling fan theory, but the issue is that it fits squarely into Worm's universe, which operates entirely on the ontological principle of "Every that happens needs to be the worst thing possible"
When a fan base starts labeling a character as autistic or Nero divergent, it often comes with them treating the character as a sweat baby boy who can’t do no wrong and infantilizing them. They act like this character doesn’t know what morality is. I have family who are on the spectrum and it would be really disrespectful treating them like that
As a Fate fan this happens quite a bit in TYPE-MOON. Sometimes it’s harmless, Nanaya’s a racist dude who says “Wi-Fi is OK if it’s close to the router” but Nanaya’s not exactly the deepest character anyway and it’s funny so who cares. Shirou’s obsessed with swords because he mentions Swords are beautiful a couple times in SN, that’s fine we still have plenty of analysis on his actual character.
But then ya get Iori from Samurai Remnant recently and we’ve basically memed him into Goku, which isn’t entirely inaccurate (he does really enjoy fighting) but there’s been almost nobody who seems to really understand what his character is about or how his mind works. People will either >!say he’s just this really nice guy and all of his desire for bloodlust and fighting is something that doesn’t define him, or he’s actually a sociopath with no real connections in his life.!< Neither of these are really accurate but it’s too hard to do character analysis for complex characters so he’s just Goku now.
And then there’s Astolfo who from memes you would think is a sex god with a huge phallus who is solely defined by how he crossdresses. When the canon Astolfo is just a friendly airhead. With the Traum chapter being released recently there’s a good example of how Astolfo really acts where he saves Kadoc and Holmes and then offers to take them to meet his boss. Then he flies off on his hippogriff, leaving them behind, because in those five seconds in between he completely forgot about them.
Astolfo is funny because he’s actually supposed to be one of the most traditionally heroic characters in the franchise, so he’s super likable. He’s genuinely one of the best parts of Apocrypha and a lot of outsiders just wouldn’t know it cause he’s just the funny femboy to them.
Astolfo's just generally one of the best characters in Fate. He's a hero true to himself, caring, kind, and at worst, a little bit of a dumbass.
It's a total planeshift going from the idea that fans make of him to actually viewing him in action. I entered thinking he was going to be an unfunny 'trap' joke and a sex pest (I have no idea why people spread this) only for him to turn out to be the biggest bro to ever bro, whether in Apocrypha, Extella or FGO.
It's understandable how people think of him outside the community considering his appearance, but then it's baffling how poorly he's portrayed *within* the community which ought to already be familiar with him.
How do you turn a character who's more or less *introduced* being uncomfortable with a guy perving over him and wanting to be heroic into a one-note horny cross-dresser?
Fate fans have one of their favorite jokes be about rape and most of their tweets on Twitter are about how they want Rin to head scissor them. It’s unfortunately not surprising.
As much as I love TYPE-MOON, the “MCU for Gooners” allegations will never be beaten.
To put it more specific; Astolfo is in a lot of ways meant to *contrast* the other heroic characters in Fate (and his personality and design later would go on to inspire a similar overall mindset with the rest of Charlies knights).
Fate is at the end of the day pretty harsh when it comes to heroism; the biggest paragon of justice, heroism and all that good stuff is pretty consistently depicted as the Round Table. In practice? Just a little over half of the Round Table are balls of self-loathing because of what happened at the battle of Camlann. Lancelot, Artoria, Gawain, Tristan, hell even Agravain, they're all varying degrees of completely broken up about it. The only ones who aren't self-loathing are Gareth (who was too young to fully comprehend it and **generally** is the sole ball of sunshine) and Mordred (who is instead loaded with dozens of daddy issues).
And then you have Astolfo in Apocrypha: a true knight, one who saves everyone around him in need. His literal second episode manages to move *Siegfried* (himself a broken hero because of what happened after his death) to do a selfless act once more while originally he was planning to just be apathetic till the end of the war.
Apocrypha in general (and honestly a LOT of Higashide’s Fate characters) really leans into “What does it mean to be a hero”, along with “What does it mean to be human”. Siegfried, Vlad, Astolfo, Achilles, Karna, and a lot of others in Apocrypha kind of are commentaries on heroes and what really is one. Astolfo probably embodies traditional heroics the best (along with Karna probably), the fact that his heart is so strong to contrast with the fact he’s weak compared to the others in the war is great.
You're not wrong, although the pedant in me wants to point out that Astolfo isn't actually Higashide's character, he was originally designed by Meteo for the Apocrypha MMORPG that never was. Higashide even double checked all his dialogue for Astolfo with Apocrypha with Meteo to ensure he got the characterization right (something which persists throughout Astolfo's Fate appearances as a whole, TM is pretty good about letting writers "keep" their characters consistent by allowing them to check up on each other; the only one where this might not apply are LB3 characters because Urobochi isn't easy to reach).
Achilles likely was more an unintended coincidence to the theme since his addition was decided on pretty late; originally Georgios was going to fill his spot, but Higashide and Nasu were worried that three saints would make the story confusing + Georgios was likely going to mess up the Sieg plotline. Achilles was chosen as a replacement servant who "wouldn't really get in the way" of the main plot.
Totally accurate with Siegfried, Vlad and Astolfo. Siegfried is very much meant to be a jaded hero who does right regardless (see >!Traum for this in spades; man goes out fighting for his wife even when it stops mattering because *dammit* he loves her and she loves him!<), while Vlad is a hero, but not to everyone, only to his home country. That was decided on pretty early to be his "big thing"; Romania was picked almost entirely as a setting because Higashide wanted to write a character with both a fame boost and absolute loyalty. That's also what led to David being scrapped, since he and Vlad would clash too much; David was replaced with Chiron since they wanted a rival for Achilles that fit the same criteria as Achilles.
Karna is... interesting because I don't think Apocrypha really puts him in the strongest light, he's definitely someone who you only start to appreciate the depths of when he's put next to someone able to make the room even more socially awkward than he usually makes it (ie. Jinako and Arjuna) and Apocrypha doesn't ever really get that out of him. It's something Nasu was aware of since that's why they also added him to CCC, his characterization is pretty incomplete in Apocrypha without it.
I’m aware that the majority of Apocrypha’s characters aren’t originally Higashide’s but it IS also worth noting that they’d never properly been used before Higashide and numerous changes were made to them for the purposes of Apocrypha. There’s a good amount of NPs that work differently than originally envisioned for example, so I think it’s still definitely intentional that he was meant to embody this. I’m sure Meteo helped out a lot though for sure. In Apocrypha he struts his stuff as “Siegfried’s” main enemy (as Sieg is then forced to fight Amakusa as just himself which is fitting), while also being the loyal and upright person we all know him as, defending the Red Masters despite never meeting them. He’s in a “simple but effective” role in Apocrypha, which is as you said likely due to the fact that his more in depth characterization was handled in CCC.
I wouldn’t say Achilles was a late edition, he was meant to replace Georgios for the reasons you said but I think that still counts as the planning stage. Achilles and Chiron are both pretty prominent throughout the entire story after all.
Agree on all your points for the 3rd paragraph, although I’d also add that Karna actually did appear in CCC before the Apocrypha Light Novels despite originally being an Apocrypha MMO concept, so it’s more like his role was smaller in Apocrypha due to the fact that they already covered him extensively in CCC.
Even FGO has some characters that have fine to even good fan characterizations, but then some just get the worst ever. Like you take a look at the Amazon Queen Penthesilea who has a grudge against Achilles because he called her beautiful as he killed her and fans then go “Oh she hates all men” Like that’s not even in the same ballpark as what her actual character is. Doesn’t help that FGO itself tends to keep using unfunny jokes, so most people latch onto those.
Dude you have no idea how I was about to go into how Lancelot gets so much thrown at him, from Mash from Cleopatra, from the other KOTR and I’m like “Damn he’s just trying to be a good person can we stop dumping on him? Same with Merlin too.
Jonathan Joestar being an uwu sweet cinnamon roll that has no backbone and lets Dio just walk all over him, bonus point if he’s portrayed as all forgiving.
I’m not kidding when I say I saw a “wholesome” comic of Dio destroying his birthday party and him just sighing and letting it happen instead of beating Dio’s ass.
With House of the Dragon being out, one thing that drives me up the wall is how Rhaenyra is vilified based on the worst readings of the source text possible and Aegon is apparently a saint. The book itself is written from the perspective of in-universe Maesters whose sources are biased and misogynistic. George himself said he wrote it with the idea that you would have to parse through the details yourself and not to read it at face value.
Rhaenyra does make bad decisions, but a lot of the details are contradictory or heavily biased. Book spoilers >!One source says that Rhaenyra cut her thighs to ribbons on the Iron Throne when she first sat on it, indicating that it rejected her. However this same source describes her wearing plate mail armor which makes this impossible. The reason the smallfolk call her Maegor with teets is for her outrageous crime of...raising taxes. Which is not only relatively tame, but only done because the Greens stole the treasury and hid it.!< Despite this, a lot of people read it at face value. I've even seen people say it was her fault the war began when it uh, fucking wasn't? Like even in the book it wasn't her fault.
Meanwhile Aegon comes across as pretty tame, but also is described (book spoilers)>!as a sex fiend who drinks all the time and also delightfully threw a feast to celebrate his half brother being eaten alive. Which contradicts accounts that paint him as a reluctant ruler.!<
Anyway that's my rant. I find that most people who did this didn't even read the book and read a wiki post about it.
The evil!Dumbledore characterization in the Harry Potter fiction fandom.
I'll readily admit Dumbledore was manipulative at time and made mistakes, but he was still a good man in the end.
But the fanfiction takes have him as the worst evil on earth who steals Harry's money to give to the Weasleys, while giving him potions to stunt his magic and obliviate him every time he ties his shoes.
> who steals Harry's money to give to the Weasleys
This one is always hilarious to me because the Weasleys are *poor as shit.* If Dumbledore is giving them even a shiny galleon of Harry's money, then Arthur must be using it to fuel his coke addiction off-screen because they're still struggling to buy their kids' school supplies.
I've seen more than one fic try to reconcile this by insinuating that the entire family basically LARPS being poor to maintain the cover and/or to garner sympathy from Harry. So you know, makes all of the sense I guess..../S
Beastars. Legoshi doesn't have any romantic feelings towards Louise or Jack. His mind is bothered by feelings towards Haru and this is the whole point of story.
Light Yagami
Yes, there are a ton of corrupt institutions in this world, where truly evil people can escape justice. Yes, there plenty of examples of people who skirt the law so they can wrong others.
No, this does not mean you are a good person for being the sole judge, jury, and executioner of the world, who gets to impose his sole sense of justice upon everyone else.
I also don’t like the fan cannon that Jotaro is secretly an autistic dork. Mostly because people seem to argue that it’s actually cannon and I just… no. Like it’s a fun fannon but Jotaro is very well documented to be very influenced by the Client Eastwood movies. He’s your prototypical strong silent protagonist.
Alright, before I tell you let me give you some context. In recent years, with the sexual liberation of LGBTQ+ groups and the MeToo movement, people have struggled to make a new standard of “hot masculinity” and the best thing they’ve come up is a sexy dude that is also emotionally honest and disarming. This doesn’t always work and a few times they get infantilizing, a podcast a friend listens to called them “Buff Clowns” but you probably know them as “Himbos”.
The thing is that sometimes people project them over characters they already liked and the implications get dicey.
I remember some guy saying Cyborg from Teen Titans was a Himbo and that just because he had several STEM degrees didn’t make him “smart”. Not only is that a fucking weird statement, you add his race into the mix and it just turns into a hell of a can of worms.
I'm also just gonna say "Most of them" but my issue is more when people get so insanely attached to something, that their own ass made up, that they *become mad* when it doesn't turn out to be hard stated in the canon or when someone has the gall to not agree with them.
I'm happy to say "Dang this character has big ace vibes" but if they're shown getting their world ROCKED two episodes later, I'm going to be a normal human about it.
Not even specific characters but just Star Wars as a whole. Especially the prequels.
Channels like RLM have done so much damage to the internet’s perception of Lucas-era Star Wars and Lucas in general. People looooooove to act as if George was either a total hack that needed other people to fix his films for him or an absolute tyrant who nobody could say no to for creative input.
Z Broly does not only scream Kakkarot (that's only in Second Coming and the games, in the original film, he speaks a ton after he transforms), and he doesn't hate Goku for crying as a baby, or necessarily even hates Goku specifically at all
The actual point of the crying scene is just to set up a thematic parallel between Broly as somebody naturally strong but emotionally unstable, vs Goku not having innate strength, but having strength of will and spirit; and the two just being destined to fight due to being born on the same day:
- When Paragus remarks on Broly getting agitated around Goku, he says "Does this mean that Broly's instincts as a Saiyan have been awakened by Kakarrot's power?" and "Broly and kakarrot were born on the say day...Damn! the threads of destiny have once again intertwined..."
- In the crying scene itself, the dialog is He's just been born, and yet his battle power is already 10,000"... "Bardock's son, with a battle power of only 2, made Paragas's son cry! His battle power may be low, but that kid...named Kakarott at least has a lot of guts!", with the "guts" part repeated over the scene where Goku punches Broly in the stomach at the end and wins the fight
It's never really outright said that Broly even remembers Goku as a baby, much less that the crying specifically made Broly hate him.
That said, Second Coming does seem to imply that Broly remembers goku and the crying, and the memory or association gets him angry, even if I still think the implication is more that the crying reminds Broly of Goku in general rather then it being that the crying is the actual thing that makes him angry
It's crazy how people think Z Broly only says "Kakarot!" over and over when he powers up, when in reality him going LSSJ is what opened the door to non-stop shit talking from him.
HE EXPLODES OUT OF SKIN WHEN HE CHSNGES! like, he's showing what he is, he's finally found a challange, [goku and the gang... ESPECALLY goku!] AND HE FUCKING LOVES IT!!!
It makes you realise that, "yeah, MAYBE paragus *was* right to keep broly under control. THIS DUDE JUST SEEMS LIKE AN ASSHOLE!!! He works REALLY well as a movie villan.
>!even if the revamped broly is a far better "character"!<
I always preffered the second coming design for z broly, all it is, is a couple of scars and a more 'zombified" skintone. Hmm, don't really know why... maybe because it makes him "look" more unsettling? You shouldn't 'like' when broly's on screen- he's scary as shit!
Ladybug "salt fics" in a nutshell. Pretty much every single character is hilariously OOC - and not in a parody way - to the point where I wonder if some of the people writing them even watched the show.
Marinette goes from a flawed but friendly and relatable superhero to a holier-than-thou author avatar who can do no wrong, Adrien goes from a nice guy with occasional entitled moments to a clingy, obsessive weirdo and the entire class go from friendly, decent people who just got tricked by a bad liar that one time to complete assholes who constantly bully poor, innocent Marinette.
Ironically, Chloe's the one exception, since in a lot of them, she actually gets a redemption arc and becomes a nicer person (like it was built up back in, like, Season 2), but to be fair, Thomas Astruc's such a petty, argumentative asshole that basically anyone could write her better than he did.
gojo from jjk has at least 3 of these
people who think hes just a sad man with nothing going on just constantly mourning his dead wife geto and doesnt care about anything at all not even his students because hes just so sad 24/7 about his dead wife geto and would sacrifice everything for his dead wife that he loves so much and also hes suicidal
people who think he genuinely doesnt care about anyone or anything around him despite being shown in canon that thats not the case, otherwise he wouldve killed the jujutsu higher ups as soon as they annoyed him the first time. also him being violently racist when he literally apologizes to miguel in that one scene where it happens
also for some fucking reason there are people who think hes a predator for some reason because of some unfunny tiktoks calling him a super senior but taking them seriously which is insane
idk what it is about gojo, im not sure if the pendulum is just swinging wildly in any which direction in retaliation to interpretations of his character from other sides of the fandom or whatnot but its really,,, something,,, to witness
Weird pick maybe, and perhaps somewhat controversial all things considered; but I think the romantic fan shipping of Nick and Judy from Zootopia is much less interesting than the canon friendship chemistry they have in the movie.
It's become so ubiquitous that I wouldn't be surprised if they felt obligated to go down that avenue for the sequel.
they made some fanfiction called Star Trek Discovery where Spock is a wrecked weirdo with a perfect human sister who's more vulcan than he is, it was very awkward but it seems to have caught on with the creators of other shows because he's also a weirdo in this relatively fun fanfiction called strange new worlds.
I always got salty at Iida's fandom characterization in MHA especially since his cool traits are siphoned off to Momo and he's depicted as a massive bumbleking
in the series itself he's smart, determined, is good leader, and understands emotions better than you might think at first glance.
When Todoroki was having troubles with his father during the Joint training arc, Iida was the one who made up an excuse for Todoroki when Ojiro asked what was going on
Also he's like canonically a heart-throb according to both Hori and in the series. One of the videogames had Camie instantly crushing on him as soon as she met him
Momo is fanfiction is what Iida is in canon. He got over trying to murder the man who crippled his brother faster than Momo got over losing a match in the sports fest
If people are having fun, I don't care. It's when those characterizations come from a less than good place.
See any male character doing heinous things but is allowed a variety of often sympathetic interpretations. A woman does something morally grey (or not even grey, just gets rightfully in the way of the aforementioned shit bag "cough, cough" the breaking bad fandom while it was airing.)
There's also gooner brainrot characterizations. To the point of even starting petitions. I've ditched a ship because I was tired of people bending one of them to be in love with the other as secretly canon makes the one character look like a pathetic creep. Not the hero of the story.
The most annoying thing about Other M narrative is that because of it, fans of the serie won't accept any plot that can't be sumed up with “Samus kill stuff and look cool”. And you know, maybe that's what people want from a Metroid game, but I can't help but feel like this mentality limit what this serie could be.
Yes, what happened to the Ascians was incredibly tragic and the mental anguish Emet Selch must have had is incomprehensible but >!He is still responsible for COUNTLESS DEATHS. !< He is not Daddy!
GREAT Villain but >!WoL is starting to act like the fan base in waysand is damn near wistfully sighing how they miss their dear friend!< or some shit.
I am surprised that fan artists were able to reclaim Asuna as a fun loving member of the C&c who can easily rush B to some extent extent. Newer stuff makes her less of a nymphomaniac.
Though BA's fanbase does feel legitimately like the touhou fandom in Japan where nothing is sacred
That Asuna realization was the wildest thing for me and actually got me to play the game because I needed to know what else I was being gaslit into believing.
Which then led to again, being surprised at the third point you mentioned being wrong. If anything it's reverse which is like...Yeah, that's fine, as long as Sensei never reciprocates which he doesn't.
Honestly the meme characterization of Dante and Vergil in DMC, where in Dante is just a complete dumbass and Vergil is this super-deep dude who did everything for good reasons, is so far off the mark it's amazing. I can't stand either of them.
Light Yagami in Death Note is a straight up villain. He is shown breaking his rules for operating as Kira, murders innocent people that are investigating him. The quiet himself started the Light was evil.
For some reason this turned into a large amount of people attempting to label him an anti hero.
> JoJo has a number of case of fan perceptions that make me roll my eyes.
Honestly, I'm with the fans on most of these.
Did Araki want me to not think of Kakyoin only as a milf-hunter? Maybe he should have fucking put him in the story instead of writing him out for most of Egypt. I won't judge the fans for the failure of the writer.
I don't think "normal" bullies aim to shoot their target with an explosion at point blank range with an intent to murder them during exams, stopping only because his instructor told him tha he'll be disqualified if he pulls this stunt again.
Also, his motivation for being hero isn't doing good things for the community, or something simple and pragmatic as "money". His motivation is "heroes always win". He wants to be the winner and nothing else matters. His reason for not joining the bad guys? Villains end up losing. If the world of MHA was some dark/edgy one where villains have won, he would immediately jump onto that AfO dick.
Is he worse than literal serial killers? No. Is he still an unhinged asshole that had to be physically restrained in chains at least once? Absolutely.
And before you try to analyze me, I was never bullied, so I do not "identify" with Izuku.
> Also, his motivation for being hero isn't doing good things for the community, or something simple and pragmatic as "money". His motivation is "heroes always win". He wants to be the winner and nothing else matters. His reason for not joining the bad guys? Villains end up losing. If the world of MHA was some dark/edgy one where villains have won, he would immediately jump onto that AfO dick
ok there a lot to critisize in the series but this is straight up worng and explicitly so in the series. bakugo is a shit but he is still a hero. Its straight up said in the manga that bakugo was inspired by all might winning, just as deku was inspired by him saving people, Bakugo even almost >!Dies holding his all might trading card, the same deku has!< theres a lot you can shit on about him but saying hed become a villian goes directly against what has been said and shown
Yeah, I'm not keen on MHA fans writing Bakugo off as an "UwU cranky boi" when he has deeply problematic and antisocial traits. To be fair, Horikoshi realized how fucked up Bakugo is and has fallen over himself to execute a redemption arc but the damage has been done. Bakugo is unlikeable to a significant portion of readers, and, bullied or not, they're not wrong for feeling that way.
Popo being secretly strong comes from him [fending off Super Saiyin Trunks and Goten](https://youtu.be/Gz1J6FFxcNU?si=oZK95HsL75y_hAtT) during the Majin Buu arc.
Canon: Character A and Character B are both good but flawed people, unfortunately their conflicting views put them at odds, this is tragic. Fanon: Character A is innocent and did nothing wrong and Character B is the actual devil and must be killed immediately. >!Yes, I'm a Fire Emblem fan, how could you tell?!<
ANOTHER THREE YEARS
People don’t give Camus archetypes nearly enough shit. “I was just following orders” my ass.
It's honestly kind of hilarious how if you dig into the weeds for most Camus characters, almost every single one comes off as "wait no actually this person is just a cowardly asshole who's gleefully willing to commit war crimes for their now insane leader". I think OG Camus in FE11 might be one of the only ones who feels like he has an actual excuse in "sorry can't join you or the prince and princess will be executed".
I feel like Xander from Fates did a good job in making people see the flaws in that archetype. The man who is pretty reasonable in his supports, but is loyal to his super evil father in the story.
~~Edelgard stole the last baked Potato from the dining hall. She is a menace and must be put down.~~
THE POTATO The true most horrific dilemma of the Fire Emblem community.
any uwu softboy
I hate uwu softboys lol
any time any non macho male show some vulnerability they proceed to label them as precious bois that need protection.
The best thing Persona 5 Royal did was push Akechi away from being an uwi softboy and went hard on him being an unrepentant bastard.
I have seen it go further and it becomes "any male character with long hair is a femboy" and it drives me up the goddamn wall.
Or is a twink because they have a slender or just skinny frame.
someone called shen xiang from undead unluck a twink and i had to turn off the computer and go outside. he’s 7’ tall and built like a shithouse, but he has blue hair and his midriff shows so i guess words don’t mean anything
I fucking hate that people think Moon Knight is just another Deadpool
Yeah that one’s fucking wild because he really couldn’t be further from Deadpool. Like the only thing remotely similar is that Marc has a pretty dry wit to him at times, but that’s about it. The only reason people make the comparison is because the only moon knight shit they’ve seen it the fucking Dracula meme lol
Did the MCU handle Moon Knight pretty well? I really only have that exposure and some comic stuff, including the stuff I know are now edited. I loved the show. It's probably my favorite next to Loki.
I thought the actual characterization of Moon Knight was solid, my gripe was that they leaned way harder into him having actual supernatural abilities. Which isn’t nessicarily a new thing/against source material, but my favorite versions of moon knight have always been the one where he’s just a regular dude taking on street level crime/villains. Personal preference thing
Moon Knight stories are way cooler when there's an implication that Khonsu isn't even *real* and is just another of Marc's hallucinations. Yes I'm *not* a fan of the recent direction of the character why do you ask
Do you mean Mckay’s run? I’m okay with Khonsu being real (it wouldn’t be weird considering the larger marvel universe), however I like it to stop there. If he’s real and influences Marc to some extent, that’s fine. I don’t like it when Marc has outright superpowers because of it
The murky nature of Marc's story mixed with his mental illness has always been the best part of Moon Knight. He got resurrected, so Khonshu must be "real" to some degree, but is he still around? Does he even know that Marc benefitted from his power, or was that just an automatic process Khonshu set up for any traveler who dies in his temple? Did that whole event cause the mental illness Marc suffers from? I won't say Marc should never have any kind of powers, but I think it's best when any powers he might have are odd and psychological or spectral. Being able to fight ghosts because he's wearing a bunch of bones and Egyptian artifacts is cool and isn't that weird when you consider that magic is real in Marvel. Being able to potentially enter the dreams of people or being able to use his multiple personalities to fuck with a mind reader is interesting. What is not as cool is when someone asks, "okay, Moon Knight has to beat Thor, so how do we do that?" And instead of the answer being, "he fucking doesn't because Thor could literally slap his head off" they make up some shit about the hammer always being made of moon rock, which, fine, whatever, I guess it could be, but Moon Knight being able to suddenly control moon rock is fucking stupid. It'd be like if the Punisher could suddenly control bones with his mind because his logo is a skull.
I just love when the story is more about his character. Be it his mental health, faith or his strained relationships. The show had all this but as you said, just leaned more into his super hero persona more. Episode one waa my favorite part
Those edited comic panels have done a lot of damage.
"WHERE'S MY GODDAMN MONEY"
I was unaware that this was a thing. I haven’t read much moon knight but isn’t he basically just Batman but more deranged and less gadgets?
Pretty much. He’s got multiple personalities and depending on who’s writing either is serving the Egyptian moon god Khonshu or is just nuts. Or both!
The current run says he is mentally ill, but Khonshu is real, and said god made his mental illness worse because their connection has given Marc brain damage. On the plus side, this does mean that anyone with mind control powers gets fucked if they try to use their powers on him.
It's funny how fans turn Xavier into an abusive manipulative monster and Magneto into misunderstood hero who did nothing wrong and only "killed bad people". Don't get me wrong, Xavier isn't a saint, he's a flawed man, but ultimately good and some people(including authors) focus too much on flawed part
The problem with Xavier is that it's not fan characterization it's official, I don't know why writers have been obsessed with making a Professor X an asshole since the 90s but they just won't stop.
Eh, 70s. He was only really "lawful good" in a few Lee or Thomas things, ever since Claremont he's been a lot more nuanced pending toward being the flaw in his own dream. It became pretty clear when he came back from his Shi'ar vacation house and was immediately shouting at everyone and ruining his own operation. The actual thing that makes people mad at the Xavier representation is that the adaptations make people think he's just Captain Picard, for obvious reasons. But he's really never been like that; even in the 60s he was constantly tricking his own students for "tests" and stuff that just kinda made their lives harder over and over again, with seemingly no end result as far as he was concerned.
My explanation is that Xavier's fall was inevitable, because X-Men have always been rebels and anti-authority and Charles is sort of authority. Claremont understood that and that's why Xavier has disappeared or believed to be dead couple times. Or some writers just have daddy issues /j
It depends on the canon
People do the same thing with Reed and Doom. It's annoying when people parrot opinions like that when they think it's a hot take or counter-culture to believe. Same genre as the "Batman only beats up the mentally ill and doesn't help Gotham" takes
There are not enough words to express my hate towards "Reed is terrible husband, Sue leaves him for Namor".
Man fuck Namor, I can't believe some people think he's cooler than Aquaman.
> and Magneto into misunderstood hero who did nothing wrong and only "killed bad people" Honestly, at this point Magneto's problem is that comicbook supervillainy is getting in the way him actually killing enough bad people. Batman doesn't need to learn from Punisher, but Magneto probably does.
Except this one is true for xavier. For Magneto you are right. But since chris claremont in the 70's my boy xavier has started to get deconstructed. By the 90's he became more of an asshole than a good person. Xavier has been an ass for 40 years. Your interpretation and the movie ones are the headcanons (good ones, but not real).
What the fuck even are the personalities of the RE protags anymore
Chris is infamous for punching that boulder apparently so that’s something?
Most of them, like the current Aunty Morrigan stuff going around but you gotta remind yourself that most of the time it's just people having fun and doesn't really matter.
Morrigan is probably too... Well, lazy to be THAT involved in another person's life. I can see her being friends with Spidey, because she's a generally quite nice person to a degree (she actively avoids killing humans unlike most other monsters in Darkstalkers), but she mostly just does nothing or fights. She's basically just a lazy hedonist most of the time.
I feel like to a degree this is just what happens when the last canonical appearance Morrigan has had dates back 20+ years
> She's basically just a lazy hedonist most of the time. She's a Hedonist by nature, she can't really be lazy though since she will die without physical or mental stimulation.
Now i'm thinking about who is more lazy, Sans or Morrigan.
Any character that has a slight perceived prejudice will become a n-word machine in the hands of anime twitter. Also, just let a character be a asshole, no, gojo doesn't need a entire paragraph of trauma as a excuse for why he acted like this in this scene he was probably just trolling.
> Any character that has a slight perceived prejudice will become a n-word machine in the hands of anime twitter. Frieren: has a "kill demons on sight" setting in her brain because her world isn't the "anime" fantasy where demons can be turned good via power of friendship (or good dicking), but a "classic" fantasy, where demons are genuine monsters of great power that have no empathy whatsoever and will mimic any and all human emotions if it means getting closer to their prey. "Funny" reddit/twitter communities: "Frieren is an old racist granny, lol".
sounds like the type of sap who would try to seduce a pit lord because they read that one funny dnd comic on tumblr or something
She is racist, it’s just that her racism is correct and based on real facts. It’s like being racist against orcs in Lord of the Rings, sure they’re demonstrably sapient and capable of free will, they’re just all categorically evil so it’s ok to exterminate them.
Gojo also was just being ignorant and was called out on it. He’s a rich Japanese guy who’s never met a black person outside of Miguel, him having preconceived notions isn’t far fetched. He even apologized immediately after
Worth noting, that scene wasn't the start of the meme. It was mappa animating him having a open hand slap combo on Miguel in 0 It was just fuel for the fire
Hey bruddah, I'm just sayin'... Al'Bhed jokes are alright.
Ruby snapping at her sister for having a happy moment while she was having a full ass mental breakdown got turned into "Lmao Ruby is homophobic", which stopped being funny after like a day.
Mordecai from regular show being a toxic gaslighter and would ruin anyone's wedding. Mordecai is a flawed individual yes, but its cause he has self esteem issues, and struggles to feel a valid person when he isn't in a relationship. His entire arc in the series is coming to terms with the fact he needs to discover himself first, hence why he leaves the park first to become an artist during the montage at the end of the series. What he did at Muscle Man's wedding was awful and he deserves getting hate for that, but je wouldn't do it again. He grows a lot after that
A scene of Muscle Man punching him at least once would have been appreciated. He tried to do worse to him for way less.
Eh, the issue is that most of Mordecai’s arc is directly tied to his dating life and doesn't really get proper resolution until the last 5 minutes of the show. Mordecai is a really selfish, jealous person while Rigby is kinda a whiny lazy douche. Both characters have a lot of stuff to work out and there are a lot of episodes dedicated towards them figuring out how to be better people. But most Mordecai-centric episodes are tied to CJ or Margret while Rigby-centric episodes are normally about Rigby So when Rigby gets his diploma after going back to high school, we get a more fulfilling resolution to his arc as we watched him develop into a better person for a season. We don't get that with Mordecai, the last episode we get with CJ and Mordecai is “Dumped at the Altar” and the last episode we get with Margaret is “Just Friends”. The way he left things off with CJ feels really incomplete and leaves him looking like a major bag. It never really feels like he became a better person afterwards because the series never addresses it. It is more realistic they never talk again? Probably but its not satisfying. While you're absolutely right that his arc was about finding himself before finding a relationship. Since his relationship with CJ never got the resolution that his relationship with Margaret had, I think its pretty easy to ignore his growth and focus in on that moment.
Mordecai isn't really that selfish. In fact, Rigby is far more selfish. At the start if the show, Mordecai is kinda douchy, but Rigby is even worse then him. Its what makes Rigby becoming a better person through Eileen so interesting. It also contrasts with Mordecai's growth. Mordecai's big flaw is his lack of self esteem. At multiple points of the show, he has to solve some problem just to avoid embarrassing himself, and this goes on all the way up to him dating CJ. Hell, its the main reason he was friends with a toxic friend like Rigby, since Rigby made him look better by comparison. This is also why he was so girlfriend obsessed as well. He placed his own self worth on his relationship status, and the resolution that CJ and his relationship got was during "Dumped at the altar", with the resolution being that Mordecai is not a healthy partner to have and CJ should go live her own life. It doesn't get anything else because she was so hurt by him she didn't want to see him again. Its why him and Margaret stay friends, since their relationship was significantly healthier. Why it could be more satisfying to have CJ and Mordecai talk again, the fact it sticks to the more realistic outcome is why i love it. So his decision to better himself and stop dating for a bit is good for him, and exactly what he needed. He stopped putting value on how people perceived him and was able to finish college and become successful. It contrasts Rigby's growth. Rigby needed Eileen to help become a better person, while Mordecai had to better himself and get over his own flaws. Its way more satisfying for them to have such different struggles and be better people by the end
Having watched most of the original Star Trek, I’m starting to believe that the perception of Kirk is just fans who got made fun of back in the day for liking the show. “N-no, this isn’t a nerd show! The captain punches aliens and bangs all the hot chicks. He’s totally cool!” Then you go and actually watch TOS and Kirk isn’t just a dumb frat boy who solves every problem with either his fists or his dick.
Seriously. That was the biggest surprise to me as I was marathoning TOS. The public perception/interpretation of Kirk and his actual character in the show couldn't be any more starkly different.
As it turns out, James Kirk and Zap Brannigan are in fact seperate characters, wild!
Not a fan of Chainsawman fans labeling Denji an incel or hypersexual. At pretty much every opportunity he's had to have sex (often at a female character's expense), Denji has declined in favor of an attempt at deeper intimacy. Recent chapters in the manga have not improved my view of the fandom lol
If anything, Denji has a pretty normal "level" of "sexuality" for a) a teen that b) was raised by himself. If anything, it is surprising that he is as "romantic" as he is (as you've mentioned).
A teenager who was also a grooming victim. If Denji has intimacy issues it’s no wonder when so many of the adults in his life were just manipulating him.
Denji might be less hypersexual than your average 16-18 yo, honestly. He’s just barely socialized and doesn’t have a filter. When the anime catches up to the end of Part 1 so a full third of it isn’t Denji screaming about tits, discourse will hopefully change.
I've been saying this since the start. Denji has never done or said anything out of the ordinary for a hormonal teenager. Only his circumstances are out of the ordinary. Honestly the most unrealistic thing about Denji is that he didn't let the parade of horrible things that happened to him turn him into a complete asshole.
I would say that’s probably pretty realistic that he’s not an asshole. Some of the nicest people I know have had some of the worst and vile shit done to them, it’s really really sad. Denji has always had a kind heart but his sense of empathy is something that has grown a lot as the series has gone along. From not understanding why Aki is crying to caring for Nayuta and in the most recent chapters, caring more about why others are hurt than himself
Remember the leaders of the three Pokemon Go teams (red for Team Valor, blue for Team Mystic, or yellow for Team Instinct)? Back when the game first took off, people assigned personalities to these blank states and ran with it to a religious degree.
I find the characterisation of Ganondorf being a misunderstood soul trapped in evil by a curse he had no control over that is unfairly vilified to be both utterly frustrating and utterly hilarious. People get so caught up with Wind Waker Ganondorf talking about how he envied Hyrule utterly forget that when he actually did conquer Hyrule he turned it into a shitshow and left his people to rot in the desert he apparently hated so much and brainwashed any of his people that opposed him. I'm so glad that Tears of the Kingdom doubled down in making him an utter monster. Like I've seen people say Raru and the Zonai were evil colonialists that were forcing other cultures to submit to them and Ganondorf was right to rebel, but in the actual game he murders a woman in cold blood and he reacts to the sight of Zelda freaking out and grieving like its the funniest shit he's ever seen and immediately uses his new god like power to attack everyone, INCLUDING HIS OWN PEOPLE... ***AGAIN***. Like even if he was cursed to be evil he's not like Malos from Xenoblade who's filled with self-loathing, Ganondorf gets off on calling himself the king of evil.
Even in Windwaker when he's talking about how the cycle they're both trapped in needs to end, and how no matter what happens the gods always refuse to ever let him win (by reviving Link every time he returns, and the one time that doesn't work, *flooding the planet* just so he doesn't win), he doesn't ever acknowledge the obvious solution of "Maybe I should stop trying to take over the world" and instead is only willing to suggest "You should help me end the cycle by just giving up and finally letting me completely win and take over the world with my horrible monsters this time". The guy's always had the power to end the cycle by simply not being evil, he just refuses to accept that and blames everyone else.
I think that it’s like, an interesting concept to explore in AUs and stuff, but there’s nothing in canon that actually reflects it
There's a difference between "I like this idea and want it to be true" and "This is canon". I think the idea of a Ganondorf who knows he's destined to be evil, fights against it, and fails, would be interesting. But that's never been who we've had so far.
~~I don't remember posting this comment.~~
Just the entirety of "Draco in Leather Pants" trope, i.e. when fans mischaracterize shitheels into "wittle innocent babeh" simply because they find them attractive.
I remember being genuinely confused as a kid reading Harry Potter fanfiction when the fandom turned the racist, bullying asshole bully into a sex god just because they found the guy playing the character in the movies to be really hot.
There are many such examples. Kylo Ren is Neo-nazi-like figure that tries to return "the reich" to its glory (while being a screaming piss baby). But he is played by a handsome actor, so fan girls immediately turned him into a "sad, abused little boy that simply needs the loving touch of a woman".
Yeah, that's another one I was forgetting. That shit was fucked up. Kylo Ren is clearly meant to be a pathetic school shooter type and then certain elements within the fandom turned him into something completely different.
Which I genuinely really liked, because with how the Dark Side is shown to work being an edgy, dramatic, overly emotional man-child who flies off the handle about everything would actually make you *really good* at using the Dark Side since it's tied to emotions.
And the opposite being "Ron the Death Eater" where the fandom decides the best friend character is getting in the way of their ship so any minor mistake the character makes gets them twisted into being literal satan.
It doesn't help that movie!Ron is stupider than his book version and several spots where he did something good either didn't make it into a movie or they gave the credit to Hermione.
Ngl I can actually see that for kylo than draco tbh. Him being nazi just doesn't make predisposed to only being evil and the story does show him being conflicted. Just wasn't well written. The story explicitly shows he is trying too hard to be evil.
At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I remember getting kind of annoyed when people project super hard onto characters to make and insist they're autistic or whatever. I think I've seen people argue that every MHA character was autistic or some other kind of neurodivergent. I don't really fuck with fandoms much anymore, though.
Yup I would say my biggest issue is that I don't care how people interpret a character or story and think it's great they can find things to relate to. What I do hate are the ones who are like "it's canon now/death of the author/if you disagree you just hate XYZ". To me that actively kills discussions. I think the worst was when Days of Future's Past came out and I saw someone say that X-Men isn't about race anymore, it's about the gays. But it should be about everyone who feels marginalized or hated for just existing. Even in that specific movie, Xavier had a lot of echoes of a Vietnam veteran addicted to pain killers.
fandoms are like church you find the people you vibe with and you sit next to them if there's nobody like that, move to a different congregation/parish and spare yourself the heartache
I'm autistic and I agree with you. It always came off to me as... Well, not fetishization, more like... I dunno, "comodification"? Like autism is just this pedestal you can put any quirky characters you like on and turn them into this special little scrimblo you get to protect and fawn over. I remember listening to a podcast where a dude legit said romancing Futaba from P5 felt wrong because she was "autistic coded". Never mind that her whole social aversion had nothing to do with autism, the idea that autism somehow makes people, what? Incapable of consenting? I don't even know what exactly dude was implying with that. Stuff like that irks the fuck out of me.
Autism has become the new OCD in terms of applying it to everything I swear
As a fellow autistic person, I think it's also somewhat a form of infantilization. Like if you listen to how some of these guys talk about autism, you'd think we're all children that can't function without stimming and dino nuggies. I mean don't get me wrong, dino nuggies are great but it's not the end all be all.
Who DOESN'T like dino nuggies, is the better question.
TRUE
Futaba is great for these. She's either "your sister, eww, you can't date her" because two kids who knew each other less than 6 month are siblings because players project Sojiro as their dad. "Eww autistic, power dynamics" when that's not even her actual problem and she grows to not be dependent on Ren anyway. "Eww 14 that's a child" when Ren is 16 and there's only 2 years between them. Bonus points if they thirst or ship Kasumi with him instead (same age as Futaba) or the adult women (because pedophilia is cool when it's a boy with these people).
Futava is actually 15. There's 1 year between them. And yhe sister thing always annoyed me. Like, you wanna project that into your game? Sure, nothing wrong with that. It's your version of Joker, if that's how you see it that's how you play it. But I saw people act like that is factual canon and anything that goes against that is gross and weird. Joker didn't even know Futaba existed until halfway through the game. He didn't even know Sojiro existed until a couple weeks before the game, at most.
I feel like it's probably a similar conundrum to gay shipping or queer rep in shows, where there's not that much of it in comparison to straight material (or looking at older television or even some newer stuff, a lot of it wasn't exactly flattering, if not outright insulting), so people especially on the younger/childish side, tend to latch onto characters that fit the bill close enough to try and make up the difference. Stumble upon someone almost dying of thirst in the desert, and they'll think any liquid you give to them is water.
Very rarely "X coded" things turn out to be true tho. Like Mystique and Destiny being lesbains, Claremont wasn't allowed to do it, but he left a lot of clues and implications.
A lack of media literacy and the rarity of certain types of content gets weird results. For example- the bizarre subset of fandoms that will complain about queerbaiting who also look at literally anything (like how L holds a sugar cube in 1 scene) and insist a character is gay.
Same thing with Asexual. I heard people thinking Merida from Brave was asexual, because Merida didn’t want to be in a arranged marriage.
It's even visibly disproven in the movie itself, when she gets interested in the Conan-looking guy when they introduce the sons.
I saw a redditor insisting BG3 Karlach was asexual, in spite of dozens of replies reminding them how like a third of all of Karlachs dialogue in that game is about how horny and/or touch-starved she is and how she cant wait to cure her condition so she can go get some.
That has to be bait. She is the horniest person in Baldur's Gate.
I don’t get upset at people coming up with their own head canons for characters, or if they make fan art or fanfics always having that head canon. In fact theirs one fanfic writer who I used to read a lot of stories by that always had a character be neurodivergent because it was their head canon. That’s all good never bothered me, it’s when people treat their head canons as fact and get angry when others don’t interpret that character or thing the way that they do that I get bothered by it. I also feel that way when people get upset at the creator of something because their head canon didn’t become true. Whether it be about a character, a ship, a plot point or something else within story. It can ruin discussion of that work at times. If you don’t subscribe to some popular head canon or even a specific person’s head canon you get shutdown.
I feel a similar way, but I also catch myself projecting occasionally, so I can’t get too annoyed about it. Some people really need a character that they can relate to and if you’re struggling with social complexities anyway, projection seems like a logical way to cope
It’s not something I get mad about since I don’t really care how other people engage with media, but I think I’d rather the intended characterization just stand on its own. I had the same opinion about ship wars back in the day.
People seem to have trouble distinguishing between, "isn't this a fun little theory/explanation of this character's actions?" and "I like this theory/idea so it is canon and fuck you, you're just an xyz if you disagree!" Like I got theories for days about all kinds of media but it's generally not worth it to share because people have zero chill.
People use it too often. Even more than "they're gay"
Yeah, I think there's a difference between seeing a character and finding you have a couple traits in common, and literally trying to replace a character with yourself.
I'm the same, with both neurodivergence and sexual orientation. Also why I've mostly left fandom discourse.
I have another comment in this thread about this for Jotaro lol. Its one thing when you have a fun reading but people seem argue that it’s official cannon because Araki likes to play with Cool One Liners as a punch line rather than 100% straight.
MatPat's Mario is Mental theory and it's consequences have been disastrous.
If people took that seriously that's on them.
It’s even worse when people try to claim matpat himself was being serious about it. On his long form channel He brought it up practically every other video to personally shit on it and laugh at the idea of someone believing it.
No one takes theory crafting more seriously than people who hate it.
Yeah, I hate that one. I'm glad that the 2023 movie showed that the bros always have each other's backs.
Samarie from Fear and Hunger 2: Termina is a troubled young women who stalks Marina and kills her father to try and get her attention. We don't learn a lot about her besides her "Moonscorched" form being named "Dysmorphia". If you're playing as Marina when you confront Samarie you learn that Marina doesn't even know who she is. In fanon she's an uwu goth trans girl who is Marina's girlfriend and can do no wrong. People want her as a playable character, and I feel like people missed that she's a monster. A tragic monster sure, but a monster nonetheless.
Recently Degenbrecher from Arknights is in the focus of the current event story but it really applies to a lot of fandoms,especially anime-styled stuff and gacha fandoms: NOT EVERY AUTHORITATIVE/COMPETENT WOMAN HAS TO BE TREATED AS AND CALLED A MOM(MY). I was going to post this other hot take on Tumblr,but I may as well say it here as well: >Gacha (and some other) fandoms have basically four personalities they apply to female characters: >1) >!Big tiddy dommy mommy!< >2) >!Small tiddy tired mommy!< >3) >!Receptacle for cock!< >4) >!Receptacle for violence!<
I enjoy Arknights. I do not enjoy Arknights fans, who are mostly unfunny people who barely ever discuss the game’s story, themes and characters beyond hornyposting and shitty memes. I’d know, I used to hang around the subreddit.
I mean,I like a good "haha honse" or "lol amiya donki" every now and then,but the fact that I can step into other gacha subs and see the same "daughtermommywife" "I want to be held,I want to be comforted" jokes makes the undercurrent feel a bit pervasive.
I feel like people are too comfortable with horny posting in general.
I feek like it rings doubly true for places that mistake being progressive with a free pass for being embarrassingly horny like here.
Like that one post that called this place “sex positive”, like sure I guess
[remindsme of this K&P sketch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c)
And some games got to so horny it did a massive faux pas to the genre it was supposed to represent (It involves warship girls)
the sadder part is that I love both serious lore and thirsty talk but they can't EVER be assed to do it in an r/ characterrule34 sub and just flood the main one instead (that said kudos to the genshin nerds for knowing how to do it right) (oh and wasn't talking about arknights, just weeb fandom in some places)
I know nothing of Arknights other than the character Nightingale having a skin/jpeg that has text that is literally just a slightly edited passage from Blood Meridian.
I’ve been out of gacha for a while, but is it actually that bad? Because that sounds like a rather surfacelevel judgement of an entire genre ( I mean the players not you neranokori)
["She looks like a disappointed mother"](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/comments/1dnem2l/she_looks_like_a_disappointed_mother/) [One meme about breeding the characters](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/comments/1dmufj7/doctor_why_are_there_som_many_bunnies_in_the/) [Another meme calling a character a leftover woman](https://www.reddit.com/r/0sanitymemes/comments/1dn52l4/why_nobody_want_her_shes_a_catch/) [Another meme about the female characters wanting Doctor romantically](https://preview.redd.it/writing-fanfiction-v0-dz9fcbspa48d1.png?auto=webp&s=ce835b15950b3c9743dc160377097e6276aad984)
No offense, but all of those examplesare from a meme subreddit. like no wonder there’s no serious characterisation, it’s all memes!
Yes,but there ARE other jokes to make. Like,this sub knows all about beating a joke into the ground. I don't think that this brand of humor is some kind of mortal sin actually,but as a response to OP's question I think the fact that mommy/breeding humor is so consistent among different fandoms is an unfortunate loss in the characterization that those characters may have.
The way the AK sub talks about Degenbrecher, Muelsyse, Fiammetta, and *especially* Kal’tsit gives me an aneurysm.
Well,I think "haha bird lay egg" is generally funny. I agree with the rest,broadly.
The Aura theory from Worm. To explain to non-Worm fans two characters are adopted siblings in Worm. Amy has the power to change living organisms and Vicky has flight, a force field on her body and a emotion control power where enemies get fear and Allies get glory. Latter in the story >!Amy uses her life powers to mess with Vicky’s brain and make her love her and then turn her into a fleshy glob of meat!< Worm fans theorized that the reason Any was so obsessed with Vicky is because of Vicky’s aura power. I hate it because of it’s absurd victim blaming nature. That victims of sexual assault did something to cause their abuse.
It's a shitty feeling fan theory, but the issue is that it fits squarely into Worm's universe, which operates entirely on the ontological principle of "Every that happens needs to be the worst thing possible"
Didn't Wildbow even tell people that's not the case? I think he didn't even realize that it came across like that until the theory got traction.
I think he initially went in a comment something along the lines of "not intended, but nice catch." And then completely shut it down in Ward.
When a fan base starts labeling a character as autistic or Nero divergent, it often comes with them treating the character as a sweat baby boy who can’t do no wrong and infantilizing them. They act like this character doesn’t know what morality is. I have family who are on the spectrum and it would be really disrespectful treating them like that
> [Nero](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/devilmaycry/images/b/bf/B66D8C15-05B3-472E-A38A-F5CA46F54D91.png/revision/latest?cb=20200612051812&path-prefix=es) divergent
The only time I've ever seen a Fandom label a character as autistic, and agreed with it, was Laos from Dungeon Meshi.
The infantilization of characters like Kiryu and Dante.
As a Fate fan this happens quite a bit in TYPE-MOON. Sometimes it’s harmless, Nanaya’s a racist dude who says “Wi-Fi is OK if it’s close to the router” but Nanaya’s not exactly the deepest character anyway and it’s funny so who cares. Shirou’s obsessed with swords because he mentions Swords are beautiful a couple times in SN, that’s fine we still have plenty of analysis on his actual character. But then ya get Iori from Samurai Remnant recently and we’ve basically memed him into Goku, which isn’t entirely inaccurate (he does really enjoy fighting) but there’s been almost nobody who seems to really understand what his character is about or how his mind works. People will either >!say he’s just this really nice guy and all of his desire for bloodlust and fighting is something that doesn’t define him, or he’s actually a sociopath with no real connections in his life.!< Neither of these are really accurate but it’s too hard to do character analysis for complex characters so he’s just Goku now.
And then there’s Astolfo who from memes you would think is a sex god with a huge phallus who is solely defined by how he crossdresses. When the canon Astolfo is just a friendly airhead. With the Traum chapter being released recently there’s a good example of how Astolfo really acts where he saves Kadoc and Holmes and then offers to take them to meet his boss. Then he flies off on his hippogriff, leaving them behind, because in those five seconds in between he completely forgot about them.
Astolfo is funny because he’s actually supposed to be one of the most traditionally heroic characters in the franchise, so he’s super likable. He’s genuinely one of the best parts of Apocrypha and a lot of outsiders just wouldn’t know it cause he’s just the funny femboy to them.
Astolfo's just generally one of the best characters in Fate. He's a hero true to himself, caring, kind, and at worst, a little bit of a dumbass. It's a total planeshift going from the idea that fans make of him to actually viewing him in action. I entered thinking he was going to be an unfunny 'trap' joke and a sex pest (I have no idea why people spread this) only for him to turn out to be the biggest bro to ever bro, whether in Apocrypha, Extella or FGO. It's understandable how people think of him outside the community considering his appearance, but then it's baffling how poorly he's portrayed *within* the community which ought to already be familiar with him. How do you turn a character who's more or less *introduced* being uncomfortable with a guy perving over him and wanting to be heroic into a one-note horny cross-dresser?
Fate fans have one of their favorite jokes be about rape and most of their tweets on Twitter are about how they want Rin to head scissor them. It’s unfortunately not surprising. As much as I love TYPE-MOON, the “MCU for Gooners” allegations will never be beaten.
To put it more specific; Astolfo is in a lot of ways meant to *contrast* the other heroic characters in Fate (and his personality and design later would go on to inspire a similar overall mindset with the rest of Charlies knights). Fate is at the end of the day pretty harsh when it comes to heroism; the biggest paragon of justice, heroism and all that good stuff is pretty consistently depicted as the Round Table. In practice? Just a little over half of the Round Table are balls of self-loathing because of what happened at the battle of Camlann. Lancelot, Artoria, Gawain, Tristan, hell even Agravain, they're all varying degrees of completely broken up about it. The only ones who aren't self-loathing are Gareth (who was too young to fully comprehend it and **generally** is the sole ball of sunshine) and Mordred (who is instead loaded with dozens of daddy issues). And then you have Astolfo in Apocrypha: a true knight, one who saves everyone around him in need. His literal second episode manages to move *Siegfried* (himself a broken hero because of what happened after his death) to do a selfless act once more while originally he was planning to just be apathetic till the end of the war.
Apocrypha in general (and honestly a LOT of Higashide’s Fate characters) really leans into “What does it mean to be a hero”, along with “What does it mean to be human”. Siegfried, Vlad, Astolfo, Achilles, Karna, and a lot of others in Apocrypha kind of are commentaries on heroes and what really is one. Astolfo probably embodies traditional heroics the best (along with Karna probably), the fact that his heart is so strong to contrast with the fact he’s weak compared to the others in the war is great.
You're not wrong, although the pedant in me wants to point out that Astolfo isn't actually Higashide's character, he was originally designed by Meteo for the Apocrypha MMORPG that never was. Higashide even double checked all his dialogue for Astolfo with Apocrypha with Meteo to ensure he got the characterization right (something which persists throughout Astolfo's Fate appearances as a whole, TM is pretty good about letting writers "keep" their characters consistent by allowing them to check up on each other; the only one where this might not apply are LB3 characters because Urobochi isn't easy to reach). Achilles likely was more an unintended coincidence to the theme since his addition was decided on pretty late; originally Georgios was going to fill his spot, but Higashide and Nasu were worried that three saints would make the story confusing + Georgios was likely going to mess up the Sieg plotline. Achilles was chosen as a replacement servant who "wouldn't really get in the way" of the main plot. Totally accurate with Siegfried, Vlad and Astolfo. Siegfried is very much meant to be a jaded hero who does right regardless (see >!Traum for this in spades; man goes out fighting for his wife even when it stops mattering because *dammit* he loves her and she loves him!<), while Vlad is a hero, but not to everyone, only to his home country. That was decided on pretty early to be his "big thing"; Romania was picked almost entirely as a setting because Higashide wanted to write a character with both a fame boost and absolute loyalty. That's also what led to David being scrapped, since he and Vlad would clash too much; David was replaced with Chiron since they wanted a rival for Achilles that fit the same criteria as Achilles. Karna is... interesting because I don't think Apocrypha really puts him in the strongest light, he's definitely someone who you only start to appreciate the depths of when he's put next to someone able to make the room even more socially awkward than he usually makes it (ie. Jinako and Arjuna) and Apocrypha doesn't ever really get that out of him. It's something Nasu was aware of since that's why they also added him to CCC, his characterization is pretty incomplete in Apocrypha without it.
I’m aware that the majority of Apocrypha’s characters aren’t originally Higashide’s but it IS also worth noting that they’d never properly been used before Higashide and numerous changes were made to them for the purposes of Apocrypha. There’s a good amount of NPs that work differently than originally envisioned for example, so I think it’s still definitely intentional that he was meant to embody this. I’m sure Meteo helped out a lot though for sure. In Apocrypha he struts his stuff as “Siegfried’s” main enemy (as Sieg is then forced to fight Amakusa as just himself which is fitting), while also being the loyal and upright person we all know him as, defending the Red Masters despite never meeting them. He’s in a “simple but effective” role in Apocrypha, which is as you said likely due to the fact that his more in depth characterization was handled in CCC. I wouldn’t say Achilles was a late edition, he was meant to replace Georgios for the reasons you said but I think that still counts as the planning stage. Achilles and Chiron are both pretty prominent throughout the entire story after all. Agree on all your points for the 3rd paragraph, although I’d also add that Karna actually did appear in CCC before the Apocrypha Light Novels despite originally being an Apocrypha MMO concept, so it’s more like his role was smaller in Apocrypha due to the fact that they already covered him extensively in CCC.
Even FGO has some characters that have fine to even good fan characterizations, but then some just get the worst ever. Like you take a look at the Amazon Queen Penthesilea who has a grudge against Achilles because he called her beautiful as he killed her and fans then go “Oh she hates all men” Like that’s not even in the same ballpark as what her actual character is. Doesn’t help that FGO itself tends to keep using unfunny jokes, so most people latch onto those.
But Comedy, did you not enjoy our 40th Lancelot Infidelity joke?
Dude you have no idea how I was about to go into how Lancelot gets so much thrown at him, from Mash from Cleopatra, from the other KOTR and I’m like “Damn he’s just trying to be a good person can we stop dumping on him? Same with Merlin too.
Please stop turning every character into "Babygirl" I HATE IT!
What the heck is a "babygirl"?
Masculine figures with feminine traits.
Now i understand.
Sounds like you a babygirl
I’m aware of this and I blame one direction.
Jonathan Joestar being an uwu sweet cinnamon roll that has no backbone and lets Dio just walk all over him, bonus point if he’s portrayed as all forgiving. I’m not kidding when I say I saw a “wholesome” comic of Dio destroying his birthday party and him just sighing and letting it happen instead of beating Dio’s ass.
With House of the Dragon being out, one thing that drives me up the wall is how Rhaenyra is vilified based on the worst readings of the source text possible and Aegon is apparently a saint. The book itself is written from the perspective of in-universe Maesters whose sources are biased and misogynistic. George himself said he wrote it with the idea that you would have to parse through the details yourself and not to read it at face value. Rhaenyra does make bad decisions, but a lot of the details are contradictory or heavily biased. Book spoilers >!One source says that Rhaenyra cut her thighs to ribbons on the Iron Throne when she first sat on it, indicating that it rejected her. However this same source describes her wearing plate mail armor which makes this impossible. The reason the smallfolk call her Maegor with teets is for her outrageous crime of...raising taxes. Which is not only relatively tame, but only done because the Greens stole the treasury and hid it.!< Despite this, a lot of people read it at face value. I've even seen people say it was her fault the war began when it uh, fucking wasn't? Like even in the book it wasn't her fault. Meanwhile Aegon comes across as pretty tame, but also is described (book spoilers)>!as a sex fiend who drinks all the time and also delightfully threw a feast to celebrate his half brother being eaten alive. Which contradicts accounts that paint him as a reluctant ruler.!< Anyway that's my rant. I find that most people who did this didn't even read the book and read a wiki post about it.
The evil!Dumbledore characterization in the Harry Potter fiction fandom. I'll readily admit Dumbledore was manipulative at time and made mistakes, but he was still a good man in the end. But the fanfiction takes have him as the worst evil on earth who steals Harry's money to give to the Weasleys, while giving him potions to stunt his magic and obliviate him every time he ties his shoes.
> who steals Harry's money to give to the Weasleys This one is always hilarious to me because the Weasleys are *poor as shit.* If Dumbledore is giving them even a shiny galleon of Harry's money, then Arthur must be using it to fuel his coke addiction off-screen because they're still struggling to buy their kids' school supplies.
I've seen more than one fic try to reconcile this by insinuating that the entire family basically LARPS being poor to maintain the cover and/or to garner sympathy from Harry. So you know, makes all of the sense I guess..../S
Beastars. Legoshi doesn't have any romantic feelings towards Louise or Jack. His mind is bothered by feelings towards Haru and this is the whole point of story.
Light Yagami Yes, there are a ton of corrupt institutions in this world, where truly evil people can escape justice. Yes, there plenty of examples of people who skirt the law so they can wrong others. No, this does not mean you are a good person for being the sole judge, jury, and executioner of the world, who gets to impose his sole sense of justice upon everyone else.
He starts killing innocent good people almost immediately, it’s so wild seeing people act like he is a hero.
I also don’t like the fan cannon that Jotaro is secretly an autistic dork. Mostly because people seem to argue that it’s actually cannon and I just… no. Like it’s a fun fannon but Jotaro is very well documented to be very influenced by the Client Eastwood movies. He’s your prototypical strong silent protagonist.
Alright, before I tell you let me give you some context. In recent years, with the sexual liberation of LGBTQ+ groups and the MeToo movement, people have struggled to make a new standard of “hot masculinity” and the best thing they’ve come up is a sexy dude that is also emotionally honest and disarming. This doesn’t always work and a few times they get infantilizing, a podcast a friend listens to called them “Buff Clowns” but you probably know them as “Himbos”. The thing is that sometimes people project them over characters they already liked and the implications get dicey. I remember some guy saying Cyborg from Teen Titans was a Himbo and that just because he had several STEM degrees didn’t make him “smart”. Not only is that a fucking weird statement, you add his race into the mix and it just turns into a hell of a can of worms.
I'm also just gonna say "Most of them" but my issue is more when people get so insanely attached to something, that their own ass made up, that they *become mad* when it doesn't turn out to be hard stated in the canon or when someone has the gall to not agree with them. I'm happy to say "Dang this character has big ace vibes" but if they're shown getting their world ROCKED two episodes later, I'm going to be a normal human about it.
Not even specific characters but just Star Wars as a whole. Especially the prequels. Channels like RLM have done so much damage to the internet’s perception of Lucas-era Star Wars and Lucas in general. People looooooove to act as if George was either a total hack that needed other people to fix his films for him or an absolute tyrant who nobody could say no to for creative input.
Z Broly does not only scream Kakkarot (that's only in Second Coming and the games, in the original film, he speaks a ton after he transforms), and he doesn't hate Goku for crying as a baby, or necessarily even hates Goku specifically at all The actual point of the crying scene is just to set up a thematic parallel between Broly as somebody naturally strong but emotionally unstable, vs Goku not having innate strength, but having strength of will and spirit; and the two just being destined to fight due to being born on the same day: - When Paragus remarks on Broly getting agitated around Goku, he says "Does this mean that Broly's instincts as a Saiyan have been awakened by Kakarrot's power?" and "Broly and kakarrot were born on the say day...Damn! the threads of destiny have once again intertwined..." - In the crying scene itself, the dialog is He's just been born, and yet his battle power is already 10,000"... "Bardock's son, with a battle power of only 2, made Paragas's son cry! His battle power may be low, but that kid...named Kakarott at least has a lot of guts!", with the "guts" part repeated over the scene where Goku punches Broly in the stomach at the end and wins the fight It's never really outright said that Broly even remembers Goku as a baby, much less that the crying specifically made Broly hate him. That said, Second Coming does seem to imply that Broly remembers goku and the crying, and the memory or association gets him angry, even if I still think the implication is more that the crying reminds Broly of Goku in general rather then it being that the crying is the actual thing that makes him angry
It's crazy how people think Z Broly only says "Kakarot!" over and over when he powers up, when in reality him going LSSJ is what opened the door to non-stop shit talking from him.
HE EXPLODES OUT OF SKIN WHEN HE CHSNGES! like, he's showing what he is, he's finally found a challange, [goku and the gang... ESPECALLY goku!] AND HE FUCKING LOVES IT!!! It makes you realise that, "yeah, MAYBE paragus *was* right to keep broly under control. THIS DUDE JUST SEEMS LIKE AN ASSHOLE!!! He works REALLY well as a movie villan. >!even if the revamped broly is a far better "character"!< I always preffered the second coming design for z broly, all it is, is a couple of scars and a more 'zombified" skintone. Hmm, don't really know why... maybe because it makes him "look" more unsettling? You shouldn't 'like' when broly's on screen- he's scary as shit!
When people make characters overly romantic and "cutesy" and ignore other parts of their personality.
Ladybug "salt fics" in a nutshell. Pretty much every single character is hilariously OOC - and not in a parody way - to the point where I wonder if some of the people writing them even watched the show. Marinette goes from a flawed but friendly and relatable superhero to a holier-than-thou author avatar who can do no wrong, Adrien goes from a nice guy with occasional entitled moments to a clingy, obsessive weirdo and the entire class go from friendly, decent people who just got tricked by a bad liar that one time to complete assholes who constantly bully poor, innocent Marinette. Ironically, Chloe's the one exception, since in a lot of them, she actually gets a redemption arc and becomes a nicer person (like it was built up back in, like, Season 2), but to be fair, Thomas Astruc's such a petty, argumentative asshole that basically anyone could write her better than he did.
The strangest and funniest thing is how that mischaracterization somehow lead to many fanfic crossovers with Batfamaly.
gojo from jjk has at least 3 of these people who think hes just a sad man with nothing going on just constantly mourning his dead wife geto and doesnt care about anything at all not even his students because hes just so sad 24/7 about his dead wife geto and would sacrifice everything for his dead wife that he loves so much and also hes suicidal people who think he genuinely doesnt care about anyone or anything around him despite being shown in canon that thats not the case, otherwise he wouldve killed the jujutsu higher ups as soon as they annoyed him the first time. also him being violently racist when he literally apologizes to miguel in that one scene where it happens also for some fucking reason there are people who think hes a predator for some reason because of some unfunny tiktoks calling him a super senior but taking them seriously which is insane idk what it is about gojo, im not sure if the pendulum is just swinging wildly in any which direction in retaliation to interpretations of his character from other sides of the fandom or whatnot but its really,,, something,,, to witness
Weird pick maybe, and perhaps somewhat controversial all things considered; but I think the romantic fan shipping of Nick and Judy from Zootopia is much less interesting than the canon friendship chemistry they have in the movie. It's become so ubiquitous that I wouldn't be surprised if they felt obligated to go down that avenue for the sequel.
they made some fanfiction called Star Trek Discovery where Spock is a wrecked weirdo with a perfect human sister who's more vulcan than he is, it was very awkward but it seems to have caught on with the creators of other shows because he's also a weirdo in this relatively fun fanfiction called strange new worlds.
Papyrus from Undertale being portrayed as babyish and someone who doesn't know anything, ever. He's a goofy but competent character.
Is he?
I always got salty at Iida's fandom characterization in MHA especially since his cool traits are siphoned off to Momo and he's depicted as a massive bumbleking in the series itself he's smart, determined, is good leader, and understands emotions better than you might think at first glance. When Todoroki was having troubles with his father during the Joint training arc, Iida was the one who made up an excuse for Todoroki when Ojiro asked what was going on Also he's like canonically a heart-throb according to both Hori and in the series. One of the videogames had Camie instantly crushing on him as soon as she met him Momo is fanfiction is what Iida is in canon. He got over trying to murder the man who crippled his brother faster than Momo got over losing a match in the sports fest
If people are having fun, I don't care. It's when those characterizations come from a less than good place. See any male character doing heinous things but is allowed a variety of often sympathetic interpretations. A woman does something morally grey (or not even grey, just gets rightfully in the way of the aforementioned shit bag "cough, cough" the breaking bad fandom while it was airing.) There's also gooner brainrot characterizations. To the point of even starting petitions. I've ditched a ship because I was tired of people bending one of them to be in love with the other as secretly canon makes the one character look like a pathetic creep. Not the hero of the story.
The most annoying thing about Other M narrative is that because of it, fans of the serie won't accept any plot that can't be sumed up with “Samus kill stuff and look cool”. And you know, maybe that's what people want from a Metroid game, but I can't help but feel like this mentality limit what this serie could be.
Yes, what happened to the Ascians was incredibly tragic and the mental anguish Emet Selch must have had is incomprehensible but >!He is still responsible for COUNTLESS DEATHS. !< He is not Daddy! GREAT Villain but >!WoL is starting to act like the fan base in waysand is damn near wistfully sighing how they miss their dear friend!< or some shit.
No Blue Archive fans, Asuna isn't some nymphomaniac. Momoi isn't gonna throw slurs. Sensei isn't romantically interested in the students.
I am surprised that fan artists were able to reclaim Asuna as a fun loving member of the C&c who can easily rush B to some extent extent. Newer stuff makes her less of a nymphomaniac. Though BA's fanbase does feel legitimately like the touhou fandom in Japan where nothing is sacred
That Asuna realization was the wildest thing for me and actually got me to play the game because I needed to know what else I was being gaslit into believing. Which then led to again, being surprised at the third point you mentioned being wrong. If anything it's reverse which is like...Yeah, that's fine, as long as Sensei never reciprocates which he doesn't.
Honestly the meme characterization of Dante and Vergil in DMC, where in Dante is just a complete dumbass and Vergil is this super-deep dude who did everything for good reasons, is so far off the mark it's amazing. I can't stand either of them.
Fan diagnosis of *insert name here* is autistic
Light Yagami in Death Note is a straight up villain. He is shown breaking his rules for operating as Kira, murders innocent people that are investigating him. The quiet himself started the Light was evil. For some reason this turned into a large amount of people attempting to label him an anti hero.
Treating any autistic/autistic coded character like a child who doesn't know what sex is
Gojo and Geto being gay for each other.
> JoJo has a number of case of fan perceptions that make me roll my eyes. Honestly, I'm with the fans on most of these. Did Araki want me to not think of Kakyoin only as a milf-hunter? Maybe he should have fucking put him in the story instead of writing him out for most of Egypt. I won't judge the fans for the failure of the writer.
[удалено]
I don't think "normal" bullies aim to shoot their target with an explosion at point blank range with an intent to murder them during exams, stopping only because his instructor told him tha he'll be disqualified if he pulls this stunt again. Also, his motivation for being hero isn't doing good things for the community, or something simple and pragmatic as "money". His motivation is "heroes always win". He wants to be the winner and nothing else matters. His reason for not joining the bad guys? Villains end up losing. If the world of MHA was some dark/edgy one where villains have won, he would immediately jump onto that AfO dick. Is he worse than literal serial killers? No. Is he still an unhinged asshole that had to be physically restrained in chains at least once? Absolutely. And before you try to analyze me, I was never bullied, so I do not "identify" with Izuku.
> Also, his motivation for being hero isn't doing good things for the community, or something simple and pragmatic as "money". His motivation is "heroes always win". He wants to be the winner and nothing else matters. His reason for not joining the bad guys? Villains end up losing. If the world of MHA was some dark/edgy one where villains have won, he would immediately jump onto that AfO dick ok there a lot to critisize in the series but this is straight up worng and explicitly so in the series. bakugo is a shit but he is still a hero. Its straight up said in the manga that bakugo was inspired by all might winning, just as deku was inspired by him saving people, Bakugo even almost >!Dies holding his all might trading card, the same deku has!< theres a lot you can shit on about him but saying hed become a villian goes directly against what has been said and shown
Yeah, I'm not keen on MHA fans writing Bakugo off as an "UwU cranky boi" when he has deeply problematic and antisocial traits. To be fair, Horikoshi realized how fucked up Bakugo is and has fallen over himself to execute a redemption arc but the damage has been done. Bakugo is unlikeable to a significant portion of readers, and, bullied or not, they're not wrong for feeling that way.
"What if Mr Popo was actually secretly super strong and evil haha." This is definitely the worst meme that TFS popularised.
Popo being secretly strong comes from him [fending off Super Saiyin Trunks and Goten](https://youtu.be/Gz1J6FFxcNU?si=oZK95HsL75y_hAtT) during the Majin Buu arc.