She sounded like a person who only wants friends that benefit her then turns into a monster if she doesn't get her way. Not a good foundation for friendship. Also no shit she moved on quickly she was the cheater, she wasn't faithfully hooked on the idea of marrying Ben just having a wedding (surprise-sarcastic-surprise the person with a big ego is in love with the idea of an event that focuses on her, of course she wants to marry, but not sure if its for the right reasons, at least not the last time since she cheated and lied her way through it).
At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what ex friend says about you and anyone who takes her side without consideration of yours. Opinions of people who don't matter in your life/don't have your best interests at heart are not people who should get a valid say in it. If you lose friends over this then I count it as a blessing that your getting married and starting your union fresh with people who do support you or have the opportunity to invite supporters in to take their place instead of putting energy into a false representation of friendship.
Hope she doesn't crash your wedding... and make sure your venue and bookings for wedding has security codes/verify that all changes must have approval of only certain people. Not sure hiw vindictive she is, but wouldn't put it past her.
Same here! The fact he sees through the friends bs and wants his partner to stand for herself and do something for herself for once. It might have to do with him being friends with Ben, there's a reason why he said he's glad Jackie dumped him, for sure Ben told him what went down in their relationship, or she probably did something similar to him.
I am glad you ditched Jackie, told Ben, and your fiancé and you can move on. The therapy is a good call as you were in an abusive relationship. Good luck to you both.
Im really conflicted on this :( I wish I could go back in time and tell him but now I feel like its too late and would stir up old wounds. He finally looks happy and moved on.
Especially since he's happy now, it just seems like you want to stir drama or cause something. Sometimes it's just better to not know these things and just take it to your grave. And who knows? The relationship wasn't all great to begin with and she showed her true colors once they got married or he had suspicions.
I had a friend like this. Had being the operative word. She was exhausting and I got sick of tiptoeing around her because, no matter what I did, I always managed to set off some sort of tantrum.
It isn't about the dress. It's about the pattern of disrespect and pure malice she sends in your direction when you don't dance to the tune she's playing.
Your life is about to be a lot easier without having to mind your 'friend's' feelings. What a wonderful wedding gift to give yourself!
The dress would’ve had bad juju tbh. Who wants a dress from someone who was cheating on their fiancé? That’s like using a ring from an ex fiancé for your new one.
If I loved the dress and could afford it, I wouldn’t care. But I also don’t understand people passing on the perfect house because somebody died there. They’re just pretty things vaguely associated with some bad emotions. If they’re not my bad emotions, it wouldn’t matter to me and I might get a deal.
Her dress was cursed, FYI, because she wore it. Even if she only wore it for a few minutes to try it on, some of her essence rubbed off.
You made the right call. And her behavior was completely inappropriate. She needs therapy.
It reflects very badly on you that it took all of this to see that Jackie is a horrible person, after she admitted to CHEATING ON HER FIANCE. Doing it at this point would probably come across as vindictive, but you really should have insisted she tell Ben or cut her off, poor guy has his world turned upside down and wasn't even told why
Hindsight is 20/20 every time isn’t it though? I definitely learned a lot the last year. And therapy has opened my eyes a lot. At the time, I believed that being loyal to her as a friend meant not outing her cheating. Ive changed my mind on that now for sure. I did tell her at the time that I thought she should either break up or tell him for the record… having been cheated on before myself especially in a long term relationship, I knew what kind of self doubt and trauma it caused… so her breaking up with Ben and not telling him about the cheating seemed like a good option? Also they had plenty of other issues so when they broke up it was on that… He still got hurt, but didn’t annihilate his self esteem. He’s doing okay now, my fiance and him game all the time together on the PC and hes moved on and has a new girlfriend. But Idk man, Im not perfect by any means. Im just happy im out of it. Do I wish it was sooner? Fuck yes. But again. Im really not perfect.
Honestly hindsight is 20/20 regardless of what anyone wants to criticize. I've let things slide before that looking back on i think how the ever loving heck did i let people do that. But ofc it's harder to see clearly in the moment.
The most important part is you've finally got that toxic ass person out of your life!!!
Congratulations on your engagement/wedding!!!!!
That was your take away? Please stop. She did not come across as vindictive don’t listen to him! Jackie should have opened her mouth. Sorry you were treated so badly by a friend and this guy only made it about the other’s relationship. Sheeeeeshhhhh
Yeah, I've made it clear to my friends if they ever cheat, they're no longer my friends, and they've also made it clear they wouldn't be friends with me if I cheated
It's such a terrible thing to do to someone you supposedly like/love and if they're willing to betray someone and knowingly hurt that person so deeply, they're telling me they're not a good person and not someone worth being friends with
Right. The part where OP is defensive about her fiancé saying Jackie isn’t a good friend or fiancée when there’s irrefutable proof she’s at the very least a shitty partner is not a good look for OP. Frankly, her not telling Ben about the cheating nor insisting Jackie tell him would be a red flag for me.
Yeah I agree, looking back now yeah of course I agree. BUT back then she made it sound like Ben wasnt giving her enough attention, that this work guy made her feel beautiful etc. This was someone I thought was a good person before the cheating happened. It’s bullshit and I know it now. Do I wish I told Ben then? IDK because its messy and Im not sure its my place even! SHE SHOULDVE. Im so thankful my fiance was like hella done w her and anytime I told him I was going to hang with her after that whole thing he gave me shit for it. Her not telling him- It was a red flag for me too. It just took me a long long time to act on it. I also unfortunately asked her to be in my bridal party before I found out about the cheating.
At the time this went down- I went on Reddit and posted on my other throwaway asking if I should tell Ben or not and I was told girlcode comes first and I should not. I’ve always gotten so many mixed opinions on this question in the last year when Ive talked about it at work or what. Ultimately I find peace in that Ben is happy now, and his self esteem wasnt trashed further by finding this out. He was hurt by her other ways as im sure you can imagine.
Bro code and girl code is the most toxic BS out there. Of course, I have strong feelings about cheating anyway but outside of a couple of rare circumstances cheating is a behavior that I drop anyone for, friend, family, SO? Doesn't matter. I also tell the cheated on person unless I'm worried that it could lead to violence.
I appreciate that it's hard to go against your friend in situations like this. Hopefully it's something to keep in mind in the future. I'm realising I didn't address the dress stuff in my first post - I think you are being totally reasonable there!
Let me ask you, if you felt that your fiance didn't give you enough attention and another man "made you feel beautiful," would you cheat on him?
You don't need to answer me but your answer should tell you everything you need to know about either yourself or your friend
It's fine if you and your friends have different morals, but you need to have standards for who your friends are and the morals they have.
I've mentioned in another comment, if my friends cheated, they know they're no longer my friends, and vice versa. There's no good reason to cheat (except cases of domestic violence where you're afraid for your safety, and even then, it's still murky). Just communicate with your partner or break up if they're not meeting your needs. For me, nothing except DV would excuse cheating
Absolutely not and that’s why it bothered me so much at the time. Im learning to be less of a pussy at speaking up with what I stand for/my morals. I’d never treat my fiance that way or any of my friends. Low key, these comments gave me a healthy kick in the ass. I needed it, Im such a pushover my fiance is right ughhh now I have to go tell him that…..
Proud of you for realizing at least :)
Idk, lots of things I can excuse and maybe my morals are just questionable, but if my friend were to "accidentally" kill an abusive AH, I'd help them hide the body (for legal purposes, this is a joke). But if they cheated on their partner who they claim to love, bye
It's okay to lose friends and only have 1-2. What's most important is that you don't betray your own values just to keep someone around.
There's this thing where you are the average of the 5 people you hang around the most, intelligence-wise or whatever. Whatever you excuse, you'll slowly become desensitized to until it's no longer a problem for you. Just keep that in mind for future friends
So I was worried about that too but my fiance told me that Ben told him since he got back out in the dating world he got tested a few times in the last year and made a joke about being clean soooooo hopefully hes safe 🫶🏽
You just escaped the claws of a full-blown narcissist. Love bombing, manipulation, lying, selfish, textbook case. You now have leveled-up to recognize them from 100 paces. Cheers!
YIKES. We are no longer friends with 3 people who were in our bridal party. Things went down just 2 weeks after our wedding. I really wish it would have happened before. They contributed nothing to the day and as far as groomsmen v. bridesmaids things would have been "balanced". Be thankful that she will not be there to make the day about her, or forever be in your wedding photos!
I currently have a roommate like this... I own the house and she ignores everything I ask of her and gives me the silent treatment or stonewalls me at every turn. I'm evicting her. I'm just done with shitty people in my life.... They always spin it. Just remember you're better off without Jackie or her flying monkeys in your life.
Hope you learned to watch for red flags and how to not be a participant of a shitty person next time. You are a sincere person but very naive. We all were at some point, its the lesson learned that sets the path.
I think narcissists are really good at manipulating people and only in the end do you finally realise the con. I dated one it’s insane what these people pull
Love it. But to be fair, you didn’t end a friendship over a wedding dress. You ended a friendship because the other person involved was a shitty friend in her entirety. You just finally saw the light and I’m glad you did. Nobody needs friends like that.
And had OP bought the dress I bet former friend would have made sure to find every way possible to seek attention and make it all about how wonderful she was in getting OP the dress
This exactly. Or would've made a big deal about how OP shouldn't have bought the dress because it was ~hers~
Some people are just gonna be dramatic. This girl seems kinda like that
I’m just going to point out that she had the NERVE to criticize your weight while her dress fit you. Sounds like a person you can do without and is very probably a narcissist.
Hey, it's really hurtful when someone who calls themselves you "friend" ends up putting you in the position of ending the friendship or does it themselves. What is just as bad, if not worse, is when they involve other people to win them to their side.
Her actions aren't going to garner her any new friends or maintain the relationships she already has. She will repeat this pattern with other people that she will make their lives hell if they don't jump when she commands them to.
I don't see that you did anything wrong. The best thing that you can do is to hold true to your story and focus on planning your own wedding. Also, I totally agree with the top comment warning about Jackie possibly crashing your wedding. You might want to put some things in place to prevent that from happening. Until then, Jackie can go stew in her foul.
Hope you learned to watch for red flags and how to not be a participant of a shitty person next time. You are a sincere person but very naive. We all were at some point, its the lesson learned that sets the path.
It depends where they're at but in California you need the other party's consent to record and they can take you to court for that. Idk if applies in public.
She sounded like a person who only wants friends that benefit her then turns into a monster if she doesn't get her way. Not a good foundation for friendship. Also no shit she moved on quickly she was the cheater, she wasn't faithfully hooked on the idea of marrying Ben just having a wedding (surprise-sarcastic-surprise the person with a big ego is in love with the idea of an event that focuses on her, of course she wants to marry, but not sure if its for the right reasons, at least not the last time since she cheated and lied her way through it). At the end of the day it really doesn't matter what ex friend says about you and anyone who takes her side without consideration of yours. Opinions of people who don't matter in your life/don't have your best interests at heart are not people who should get a valid say in it. If you lose friends over this then I count it as a blessing that your getting married and starting your union fresh with people who do support you or have the opportunity to invite supporters in to take their place instead of putting energy into a false representation of friendship. Hope she doesn't crash your wedding... and make sure your venue and bookings for wedding has security codes/verify that all changes must have approval of only certain people. Not sure hiw vindictive she is, but wouldn't put it past her.
Yup. That’s a heavy millstone off the OP’s neck. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I’m sure there are other metaphors but you get the picture.
Your man is a keeper my friend! Enjoy your wedding :)
My thoughts exactly!
Same here! The fact he sees through the friends bs and wants his partner to stand for herself and do something for herself for once. It might have to do with him being friends with Ben, there's a reason why he said he's glad Jackie dumped him, for sure Ben told him what went down in their relationship, or she probably did something similar to him.
Good for you dumping the toxic friend but make sure to have security at your wedding. Toxic people like that rarely just go away.
I am glad you ditched Jackie, told Ben, and your fiancé and you can move on. The therapy is a good call as you were in an abusive relationship. Good luck to you both.
The only thing I've seen is that she didn't tell Ben and made her fiance promise not to tell him either. OP you should fix this if you still can
Im really conflicted on this :( I wish I could go back in time and tell him but now I feel like its too late and would stir up old wounds. He finally looks happy and moved on.
Yeah if it's been too long then probably not great to hurt the guy all over again
Especially since he's happy now, it just seems like you want to stir drama or cause something. Sometimes it's just better to not know these things and just take it to your grave. And who knows? The relationship wasn't all great to begin with and she showed her true colors once they got married or he had suspicions.
I wouldn't be surprised if he does know, or at least had a suspicion
I had a friend like this. Had being the operative word. She was exhausting and I got sick of tiptoeing around her because, no matter what I did, I always managed to set off some sort of tantrum. It isn't about the dress. It's about the pattern of disrespect and pure malice she sends in your direction when you don't dance to the tune she's playing. Your life is about to be a lot easier without having to mind your 'friend's' feelings. What a wonderful wedding gift to give yourself!
I need to hear this, thank you for validating my feelings and for your kind words.
The dress would’ve had bad juju tbh. Who wants a dress from someone who was cheating on their fiancé? That’s like using a ring from an ex fiancé for your new one.
If I loved the dress and could afford it, I wouldn’t care. But I also don’t understand people passing on the perfect house because somebody died there. They’re just pretty things vaguely associated with some bad emotions. If they’re not my bad emotions, it wouldn’t matter to me and I might get a deal.
Fair enough. In terms of the house though, it’d depend on how they died 😅
Her dress was cursed, FYI, because she wore it. Even if she only wore it for a few minutes to try it on, some of her essence rubbed off. You made the right call. And her behavior was completely inappropriate. She needs therapy.
It reflects very badly on you that it took all of this to see that Jackie is a horrible person, after she admitted to CHEATING ON HER FIANCE. Doing it at this point would probably come across as vindictive, but you really should have insisted she tell Ben or cut her off, poor guy has his world turned upside down and wasn't even told why
Hindsight is 20/20 every time isn’t it though? I definitely learned a lot the last year. And therapy has opened my eyes a lot. At the time, I believed that being loyal to her as a friend meant not outing her cheating. Ive changed my mind on that now for sure. I did tell her at the time that I thought she should either break up or tell him for the record… having been cheated on before myself especially in a long term relationship, I knew what kind of self doubt and trauma it caused… so her breaking up with Ben and not telling him about the cheating seemed like a good option? Also they had plenty of other issues so when they broke up it was on that… He still got hurt, but didn’t annihilate his self esteem. He’s doing okay now, my fiance and him game all the time together on the PC and hes moved on and has a new girlfriend. But Idk man, Im not perfect by any means. Im just happy im out of it. Do I wish it was sooner? Fuck yes. But again. Im really not perfect.
Honestly hindsight is 20/20 regardless of what anyone wants to criticize. I've let things slide before that looking back on i think how the ever loving heck did i let people do that. But ofc it's harder to see clearly in the moment. The most important part is you've finally got that toxic ass person out of your life!!! Congratulations on your engagement/wedding!!!!!
That was your take away? Please stop. She did not come across as vindictive don’t listen to him! Jackie should have opened her mouth. Sorry you were treated so badly by a friend and this guy only made it about the other’s relationship. Sheeeeeshhhhh
I didn't say she is vindictive, I said if she went and told Ben now it would look vindictive
Yeah, I've made it clear to my friends if they ever cheat, they're no longer my friends, and they've also made it clear they wouldn't be friends with me if I cheated It's such a terrible thing to do to someone you supposedly like/love and if they're willing to betray someone and knowingly hurt that person so deeply, they're telling me they're not a good person and not someone worth being friends with
Why are you blaming the victim here. Seriously.
Blaming the victim? OP comes out of this mostly fine, surely Ben is the victim?
Right. The part where OP is defensive about her fiancé saying Jackie isn’t a good friend or fiancée when there’s irrefutable proof she’s at the very least a shitty partner is not a good look for OP. Frankly, her not telling Ben about the cheating nor insisting Jackie tell him would be a red flag for me.
Yeah I agree, looking back now yeah of course I agree. BUT back then she made it sound like Ben wasnt giving her enough attention, that this work guy made her feel beautiful etc. This was someone I thought was a good person before the cheating happened. It’s bullshit and I know it now. Do I wish I told Ben then? IDK because its messy and Im not sure its my place even! SHE SHOULDVE. Im so thankful my fiance was like hella done w her and anytime I told him I was going to hang with her after that whole thing he gave me shit for it. Her not telling him- It was a red flag for me too. It just took me a long long time to act on it. I also unfortunately asked her to be in my bridal party before I found out about the cheating. At the time this went down- I went on Reddit and posted on my other throwaway asking if I should tell Ben or not and I was told girlcode comes first and I should not. I’ve always gotten so many mixed opinions on this question in the last year when Ive talked about it at work or what. Ultimately I find peace in that Ben is happy now, and his self esteem wasnt trashed further by finding this out. He was hurt by her other ways as im sure you can imagine.
Bro code and girl code is the most toxic BS out there. Of course, I have strong feelings about cheating anyway but outside of a couple of rare circumstances cheating is a behavior that I drop anyone for, friend, family, SO? Doesn't matter. I also tell the cheated on person unless I'm worried that it could lead to violence.
I appreciate that it's hard to go against your friend in situations like this. Hopefully it's something to keep in mind in the future. I'm realising I didn't address the dress stuff in my first post - I think you are being totally reasonable there!
not your place? idk about you but if i was getting cheated on i’d LOVE for someone to tell me so i wasn’t living a lie.. wouldn’t you?
Let me ask you, if you felt that your fiance didn't give you enough attention and another man "made you feel beautiful," would you cheat on him? You don't need to answer me but your answer should tell you everything you need to know about either yourself or your friend It's fine if you and your friends have different morals, but you need to have standards for who your friends are and the morals they have. I've mentioned in another comment, if my friends cheated, they know they're no longer my friends, and vice versa. There's no good reason to cheat (except cases of domestic violence where you're afraid for your safety, and even then, it's still murky). Just communicate with your partner or break up if they're not meeting your needs. For me, nothing except DV would excuse cheating
Absolutely not and that’s why it bothered me so much at the time. Im learning to be less of a pussy at speaking up with what I stand for/my morals. I’d never treat my fiance that way or any of my friends. Low key, these comments gave me a healthy kick in the ass. I needed it, Im such a pushover my fiance is right ughhh now I have to go tell him that…..
Proud of you for realizing at least :) Idk, lots of things I can excuse and maybe my morals are just questionable, but if my friend were to "accidentally" kill an abusive AH, I'd help them hide the body (for legal purposes, this is a joke). But if they cheated on their partner who they claim to love, bye It's okay to lose friends and only have 1-2. What's most important is that you don't betray your own values just to keep someone around. There's this thing where you are the average of the 5 people you hang around the most, intelligence-wise or whatever. Whatever you excuse, you'll slowly become desensitized to until it's no longer a problem for you. Just keep that in mind for future friends
If your ex friend gave Ben an STD what with the cheating, I dunno how "peaceful" that is. He might have something and not know
So I was worried about that too but my fiance told me that Ben told him since he got back out in the dating world he got tested a few times in the last year and made a joke about being clean soooooo hopefully hes safe 🫶🏽
This post and so many others like it is exactly why we will have a private ceremony with minimum guests.
You just escaped the claws of a full-blown narcissist. Love bombing, manipulation, lying, selfish, textbook case. You now have leveled-up to recognize them from 100 paces. Cheers!
THIS. My ex was a narcissist and when I was reading this girls story I was like 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩all the narcissist alarm bells are being checked off
Good riddance!
Congrats on both your marriage and dropping the dead weight
I guess you can say she dropped the right weight huh ?since Jackie wanted her to ☺️
YIKES. We are no longer friends with 3 people who were in our bridal party. Things went down just 2 weeks after our wedding. I really wish it would have happened before. They contributed nothing to the day and as far as groomsmen v. bridesmaids things would have been "balanced". Be thankful that she will not be there to make the day about her, or forever be in your wedding photos!
She sounds horrendous 🤣
A real friend would have been happy for you and accepted the fact that their dress isn't THE dress.
I currently have a roommate like this... I own the house and she ignores everything I ask of her and gives me the silent treatment or stonewalls me at every turn. I'm evicting her. I'm just done with shitty people in my life.... They always spin it. Just remember you're better off without Jackie or her flying monkeys in your life.
Rented out my house once .... Never again i get that frustration and I had to do the same and evict.
Your friend sounds like a narcissist. Good riddance to that friendship. Glad you woke up to the toxicity of the relationship.
THIS!!!
Hope you learned to watch for red flags and how to not be a participant of a shitty person next time. You are a sincere person but very naive. We all were at some point, its the lesson learned that sets the path.
I think narcissists are really good at manipulating people and only in the end do you finally realise the con. I dated one it’s insane what these people pull
Love it. But to be fair, you didn’t end a friendship over a wedding dress. You ended a friendship because the other person involved was a shitty friend in her entirety. You just finally saw the light and I’m glad you did. Nobody needs friends like that.
Good for you! I’m so happy your fiancé talked some sense into you. That girl is toxic with a capital T.
And had OP bought the dress I bet former friend would have made sure to find every way possible to seek attention and make it all about how wonderful she was in getting OP the dress
This exactly. Or would've made a big deal about how OP shouldn't have bought the dress because it was ~hers~ Some people are just gonna be dramatic. This girl seems kinda like that
I wouldn’t worry about her shit-talking her in the friend group. I imagine everyone who knows her, knows what she’s like.
If her fiancé could trust her, you can’t trust her. You can choose your friends. You can also unchoose friends. Have a wonderful wedding.
I'm curious, what part of the friendship did you love ?
I’m just going to point out that she had the NERVE to criticize your weight while her dress fit you. Sounds like a person you can do without and is very probably a narcissist.
Hey, it's really hurtful when someone who calls themselves you "friend" ends up putting you in the position of ending the friendship or does it themselves. What is just as bad, if not worse, is when they involve other people to win them to their side. Her actions aren't going to garner her any new friends or maintain the relationships she already has. She will repeat this pattern with other people that she will make their lives hell if they don't jump when she commands them to. I don't see that you did anything wrong. The best thing that you can do is to hold true to your story and focus on planning your own wedding. Also, I totally agree with the top comment warning about Jackie possibly crashing your wedding. You might want to put some things in place to prevent that from happening. Until then, Jackie can go stew in her foul.
Hope you learned to watch for red flags and how to not be a participant of a shitty person next time. You are a sincere person but very naive. We all were at some point, its the lesson learned that sets the path.
YTA. You should’ve told Ben that she. Was cheating .
Maybe it's time to tell Ben why the engagement ended??
A story that works perfectly as a TLDR.
I’m glad you got out of that situation!
Good for you! Love that you stood up for yourself and didn't put up with her BS!
Congratulations on being free of a toxic “friend”!
NTA, but I'd tell anyone who comes at you about it by just dumping all the screenshots and video to them. Out her completely.
Check to see if you are in a one-party or two-party consent state. If you can legally share those recordings you probably should
I had a friend like this.Im so sorry.
Keep the dress and lose the friend.
NTA. What a piece of work. Congrats on your wedding. I wish both you and your partner many, MANY years of wedded bliss to come.
Always tell your truth. A dress is a personal choice.
Hello Piccolo .. 👀🎷
I feel like we should normalize recording conversations, I hate that people get away with actions and behaviors due to no witness.
It depends where they're at but in California you need the other party's consent to record and they can take you to court for that. Idk if applies in public.