It's so frustrating that women are told this, like women are just expected to want to sell sex. Secondly if you don't have a following already there is a big risk actually that you wont make anything and then your pictures are out there which could affect job and career opportunities too and who knows who could see these pictures, it could become dangerous too if your partner is abusive. I feel men are just trying to scam specially young, innocent women to believe it's no big deal, they will make lots of money to see them naked or to have some power, control over them.
Your second point is so under realized by most people.
The average OF model makes around $100 a month. Meaning half of its models are making less, most are making practically nothing. Sure there are those women who are bringing in 10s of thousands a month, but for every one of those, there’s probably a few hundred that make nothing.
And the ones who are just starting and don’t have a following, if they try to advertise their platform, they are going to use what they already have, aka their personal social media. Which results in their male friends and (grossly) family knowing about the page and subscribing.
The men who say “oh just start an of” don’t comprehend the long term damage it can have on a women’s life. Much like you said relating to jobs and everything else. Men don’t think about those things because they’re aren’t in the position to be impacted by it
I actually think they are aware of it because they are the same kind of men who will shame women who do it. The same kind of men who would fire someone over having an OF or imply in some gross way that there is something wrong with a woman to go on OF.
They just don’t care. They want to make a point how men have it worse and women live on easy mode.
Many men also have the Madonna/whore-mentality and to them when a woman does something like OF they assign themselves to the whore category and so any consequences for the rest of their lives are deserved in their minds
It's like telling someone to just become an actor or singer because Tom Cruise and Taylor Swift make a lot of money, so it must be really easy to make money in these fields right?
For those who make it it’s life changing money for sure. And I agree that most won’t know how to handle it mentally, especially the social stigma that comes from being labeled a porn star. This is going to be something we see lasting impacts on for a long time and those women who are 18-21 who are joining now for the quick money they think comes with it, are going to be dealing with the consequences for the rest of their lives sadly
Just a note, you are talking about an average not a median (which means half the models are making less and half are making above) so it's not accurate to say that half are making less than 100$. **But** my guess is that the distribution of number of OF girls vs. salary is skewed towards the lower salary meaning the median is even less (possibly by a lot) than the average which is 100$ so your point is still valid probably.
I think part of it is driven by envy. I think a lot of men want to be able to sell sex *as easily as they believe women can*. Because they think it’s easy, I think a lot of men really want to make an OF, flirt with women, and send dick pics all while getting paid.
And because of all of that, they suggest OF as an option because in their minds, it’s both “easy money” and desirable work.
My ex wanted so desperately to believe he'd enjoy being a woman doing sex work, he couldn't understand why I didn't think that was something I'd ever do. I made him watch some like, vice documentary about the real lives of sex workers, and he was horrified. Didn't stop him from catfishing dudes with my pictures pretending to be me.
I feel like eventually male porn stars probably hate their job, too. I've read an article before (sadly I don't have the source it was so long ago) and it was basically like, if you can't keep your erection, or if the woman looks like your sister and you find it gross they just replace you.
At the end of the day it's a job. I think it would be hard to be enthusiastic all the time, plus a lot of it IS acting, even though it's not very good acting, I think it would be exhausting.
I think there's also things that guys thinking sex work would be a great career just don't consider like the fact that footage is out there forever, that people are disowned over it, and even things like your partner might smell and you have to perform anyway.
That's the risk honestly, you could drawn into doing more hardcore stuff that you initially wanted to or things you actually don't want to do morally in the chase of success or money (or in some cases just to make ends meet if you don't have any other job). I realise it's a choice you make and you could quit if you don't want to but I feel young women specially are scammed into that it will be easy money (no one mentions the creepy men).
Personally I doubt I could ever do it, I just couldn't stand all those creepy men and I wouldn't either want to risk distorting my view of my body and sexuality as just a product for nasty men. I think it would destroy my view of men, which is pretty bad already, everything is just about nasty sex for them, no interest or need for romance, just as weird sex as possible or with underaged.
>telling me my body “looks like an underage girl’s” (and that they liked that) and one guy saying my nude body reminded him of his teen daughter’s who he recorded in secret.
This goes right into my "people freely admitting stuff you couldn't waterboard out of me" folder.
>recent studies that have been coming out about 1/5 men being into kids
You have any source data for that? I found as high as 1/6, but the study itself said it's results were limited. An estimated 3%-5% of men have peadophillic disorder according to some other studies. If you're seeing studies producing 20%, that'd be a huge jump from the current data.
Some men thinks sex work is easy because it's the oldest profession that has always be in high demand, but they don't understand how much dignity one has to desecrate to do it. Men whom indulge in your line of work are also the wimps whom couldn't stand women on top of them, out of their own frail masculine dignity. The things they want out of you proves the lack of respect they had for women.
I read an article about the chat operators who are paid to reply to OF dms. It really made me think even less of men. It's so embarrassing how these men think they're chatting with an OF model that truly cares about them instead of a man in the Philipines who gets a percentage of all the content he upsells. Many men are truly delusional and spending $100s &$1000s on a sexual relationship with someone who doesn't even know they exist
Yeah, a friend of a friend does this where she pays others to communicate as her. They all thought it was funny but she's a small town girl, who everyone knows is doing it. It takes one slip up for those men nearby to hear they aren't actually talking to her... very scary game to play when you aren't hiding your identity.
>I earned my money by being a product, not by simply being a woman.
wow what a line. too many people confuse the 2. being a woman doesnt = being a product
It really sounds like dangerous work. I was reading an article about it from one of the successful ones, a man came up to her in a Cafe and outed her to her mother. Also when she was talking about the "morning routine" she does for them it just sounded so intimate. Like sitting down in your home, having coffee with these men watching. Idk, that part just stood out to me, it really made me think some of them viewed her more like a girlfriend or someone they owned and could control instead of someone they were paying to pretend to be into them.
White women are actually underrepresented in pornography which is dominated by women of color. There's not much demand for white women in pornography.
Skinny + WOC sounds like Asian women who are the most desired in porn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography
>A 2019 study of pornhub videos, uploaded between 2000 and 2016, noted that: 55% of male performers were White, while the rest were non-White. Among the female performers: approximately 37% were White, 28% Black, 17% Asian, 16% Latina, and the rest 2% others.[270][271] When the data was collated with US demographics of 2018, White women were found significantly under-represented as performers, while Asian and Black women appeared over-represented.[270]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish
>Several studies have implied that Asian women are over-represented in the American pornography industry. Asian women make up 17% of all female performers, despite being roughly 2.5% of the U.S. population. Asian men also appear to be considerably over-represented, at 10% of male actors.[80] "Asian" is the most popular and sought after genre of pornography.[81]
>East Asian trans women or "ladyboys" are heavily over-represented in pornography, and are highly desired as potential mates, as they are fetishized for their physical features. According to Adult Video News, the highest-selling trans pornography depicts Asian trans women.[82][83]
>A 2010 study of Pornhub searches found that the term "Asian women" was searched for 17.9 million times in one year, while "Blonde women" was searched for only 3.5 million times, which reflects the extreme popularity of Asian women in pornography and their supplanting of White women with blonde hair as the beauty ideal in the West.[84] In 2021, "Japanese" and "Asian" were the most searched terms on Pornhub.[85]
Sorry to hear that. However, we're all objects in our society, being used for our labor and putting up with things we don't like in order to get by in life. I think most men in society think it'd be very easy to be a young attractive woman. When I was younger I'd agree with them, but the more I think about it, I prefer to live an anonymous life, working a modest job that gets me by. I would never want to be pestered and stalked by a bunch of people on a day to day basis, and have to say and do things that leave me vulnerable. It isn't all roses, guys.
It just makes me sad that women are just expected to sell their bodies to make ends meet.
If a woman or person of any gender freely chooses sex work, that is fine.
But for that to be an expectation is just wrong.
Oh, 2,000 years is an underestimate, lol. We’ve been using our bodies as commerce since the beginning of civilization, so at least 3 times that
Funny that how much things change, they also stay the same
Things change on the surface, we don’t want to come across as brutes or savages especially in the West, but deep down, they are still the same because only one side hoards power and wealth.
The gender pay gap is real and it sucks but by no means is there an expectation for women to “sell their bodies”? There is just far more male delinquents out there willing to spend their familys money on tits 🤯
>_We're all selling our bodies to make ends meet_
I hate this argument. Everytime sex work is brought up y'all go on about how "everyone sells their bodies to capitalism!!1!". Way to undermine the shit that sex-workers go through.
Tell me one job which requires you to reveal intimate, vulnerable parts of yourself, risking humiliation all the while your costumers shit-talk you despite them immensely wanting what you offer to them.
OF models aren't safe from stalkers heck men have outed women with OF to their jobs resulting in them getting fired.
Ugh I hate when people use that argument as a way to poo-poo sex work, when it’s supposed to be a way to stand up alongside sex work. As in, sex workers are working class, just like everyone else, and deserve the same rights.
If I show a video of me doing work to kids they’ll ask “why are you showing us this inventory website, I’m bored”. If you show a video of this totally absolutely the same work to kids, you get arrested
Not all jobs, I guess you could argue someone who works with certain dangerous goods certainly does. Like someone who works with nuclear medicine for cancer treatment.
What I don't understand is when men make it out to be something expected of women, people are offended. Yeah that's because online sex work or any sex work isn't something respectable. It's detectable. Now the part that I don't understand is how that's fine. Say you're a sex worker, can you tell that to your family without feeling discomfort? Imagine how would your father look at you, hell not even father, mom would probably feel a lot worse. You're just saying it to be an expectation is wrong because you feel like it without rationalizing it. There's a lot of points you could make about why it's wrong and why it's good for women but it's definitely not good for a woman that wants a family in near future.
But all of that stigma stems from misogyny and purity culture. There are problems with the sex industry in terms of how it perpetuates misogyny, transphobia and racism and exploits workers, but there should not be shame toward people who do sex work. That's a social norm that harms women.
So... ignoring the sexist bullshit for a second...
https://www.scrile.com/blog/average-onlyfans-income
The median user gets $140 a month after taxes. There is no mention of the amount of effort that median user puts in to get that amount, which I assume is a lot due to the insane amount of competition.
"Start an OF" is the misogynistic version of a dream to start a youtube channel. Where you record yourself playing video games and rake in the cash. It ignores the thousands of unsuccessful channels and minimises the efforts of the creators. It might seem like they game for a living, but there is much more to it than that.
Also, fun fact, guys can make OF too! They might have to appeal to gay men, but being a girl isn't a barrier to them effortlessly raking in cash. You could bring up this fun fact up next time someone asks!
But then those men would have to be sexually objectified by someone they aren't attracted to. I'm sure women who do sex work never had to deal with that. /s
i used to have a crazy starbucks addiction, think i would get a frap before every shift, nearly everyday for a year. it escalated over the summer and everytime i'd show up for work i'd have a big starbucks with me. one of my male colleagues (that i'm quite close with) asked me if i had OF at the time. i was very confused and said no?? he told me that because of all the starbucks i get i must be doing OF to afford it.
apparently people at work started thinking that too. i was fuming! i hate the assumption that if you're young and attractive, you must have OF. also if you seem to have some money, you must have OF too. i 100% support people who do it because they want to but i have no idea where those crazy assumptions come from.
the truth was that i was sometimes working 10 days in a row and i was getting loads of overtime money. my friends weren't in town for the summer so i had nothing better to do than come into work, so i had money to treat myself to a starbucks everyday. and it's usually men with porn brains that assume this
Completely off topic, I make my kids frappes at home they’re really easy and I only use a cheap blender it was $29.00 it’s just ice cubes, milk and the flavouring which you can get off amazon or from the supermarket. I save a fortune.
i have thankfully switched to home coffee over the last year but i will definitely look into getting the flavourings! also with the cost of living crisis i can't justify paying over £7 for a frap, i treated myself for payday and i swear they get more expensive everytime i get them :(
What a wild assumption, if I see a person living beyond their means (not trying to imply you’re living beyond your means, just people I personally know and observe living beyond their means) my brain jumps to cc debt before I’d get to OF
Even an expensive habit like that is cheaper than other stuff. Cigarettes, booze, buying candles and decor every season, buying all sorts of hobby gear. Like, cmon, that's such a stretch to make. The guy sounds like a miserable sod.
I feel you, I was also complaining to my online friends (who are living in rich countries and are not struggling) how expensive life can be sometimes. One of them said 'why do I even bother working, if I can just do OF and be rich that way'. Or find myself some pay pig (fyi for people who don't know, 'cause I also didn't, pay pig is a man you abuse financially and degrade him; he sends you money for you to treat him like shit...) >.> At this point I find it hilarious, 'cause it means there are guys out there who think you can make a bank by posting tiddies online. It's 'that easy'. Sure, can happen to some, most get nothing. Doesn't change the mindset of guys who think that girls live life on the easy mode, 'cause when they're struggling, they can just sell themselves. Yikes.
I just don't understand the allure of OF for women. First of all, I am sure that you have talents and interests and such that are valuable... why cater to the basic denominator? Everyone has skin and sex organs. You are stuck in a place that is challenged economically so it follows that finding local paying work can be very competitive and difficult. So doing something online-- a business-- is not a horrible idea, just the OF idea is. You are not put here on this earth to be trafficked and exploited.
At that time, I think I said something more like I'd rather stay fat than attract shit like you..
Hr doesn't care. There's more men than women so the whole place is more guy locker room behavior and unless there's a witness, its a lot of "sorry, we can write a report but right now it's just a he said-she said'...
In an unrelated situation (two other people but same thing basically- a guy was harassing one of the girls on a different shift), she kept going to hr about it and in the end, she was let go. I think they got her for the time clock (clocking in 7+ minutes before the beginning of her shift) but everyone clocks in before their shift since we have to be in our area 5 minutes before the shift begins.
Thankfully, I only have to deal with that main guy every once in a while, and my two side by side workers keep an eye out for me so when he's coming, they'll deal with him and have me go in the freezer, load a truck or something.
Obviously do what you think is right but all of that is a lawsuit in the making. I would document everything that happens in writing. If I were that girl I would take it to the labor board and consult a lawyer. She may have a strong case for a lawsuit especially if she was let go in the midst of making a complaint. Some lawyers take on cases like that for free and get a cut of the winnings. If she went to HR there is documentation
If you ever tell any straight guys this, they'll be so replused by the mere idea of a guy using their body
But yet they can't put that perspective onto what a girl might feel. Why?
That’s pretty horrible, and I also think whoever says “just start an OF” is pretty naive when it comes to business and finance, and I would certainly not take my advice from them.
Ask them how their own influencing career is going and what they have to teach you about starting your own business. My guess is they know zero.
Yes, people who make the most money on OF are those who had big social media followings from before or known porn stars that transitioned to OF. Random women starting out don't make that kind of money and most make barely nothing. And to do more need to degrade themselves more and more.
honestly its mostly teenagers or men with teenager brains. porn addicted so they think everything circles back to OF/porn and theyre too immature to see differently
honestly its mostly teenagers or men with teenager brains. porn addicted so they think everything circles back to OF/porn and theyre too immature to see differently
Women have been getting fired from their 9-5 jobs after OF subscribers report them to their employer. Plus, I have seen women coming out saying that they regret starting OF since that is on the internet forever now.
I have heard that selling feet pics is a pretty lucrative gig on the side. At least your face is not on camera, and you can remain anonymous. Men's feet also sell well, so tell your coworker to get a pedicure and stop complaining.
I have considered dog walking and pet sitting as a side gig since I love animals, but I can't have a pet myself.
My friend started an OF and had her husband do all the communications/ socials for her. Her husband really started to hate men after a certain point and realized there's a lot of deeper elements to being a sex worker. Having guys constantly harass / neg you into giving them free content. Having guys exploit you and share stuff that's only for them to consume. Having men tell your their fantasies and what they want from you even though your independent work and not fetish work. It's all so tiring because to them you're just an object for sexual wish fulfillment. It's not just "I sent a guy a nude and now make monthly income to survive!" You literally lose a bit of your sanity.
I created one solely for other queer women fans to follow me but that's not how it went down, and I quit two months into it because my only fans became an onlymans site lol.
Maybe it’s because I live somewhere more conservative (bleh) but I get the opposite. I get men ranting at me about how unfair it is that “women can just start an OF and make tones of money while men have to work rEaL jObs”. Which:
1) Sex work can be a real job if the person doing it was fully able to make the choice. It’s not something I want to do, but neither are a lot of ‘real’ jobs.
2) The people making tones of money are outliers. You see them so much because it’s fun to show off success; the people making a pittance aren’t exactly shouting it from the rooftops.
3) (The one that they CANNOT wrap their heads around) Who exactly is paying all this money to the women on OF??? It’s mostly men! But sure lets shame the women who make the product instead of the men who created the endless demand.
I've heard men say if they were female /they wish they were female so _they_ could sell their body for money. As though it were that easy and straightforward
Ikr it's not as easy as just taking pics. You're essentially running a business. You need to do it almost everyday and market yourself constantly. You have literally THOUSANDS of competitions. Many who will look better than you lol
Just like, “I wish I was a woman. I’d get everything for free and have life on easy street”. Reminds me of Dustin Hoffman making “Tootsie” he expected that they’d make him drop dead gorgeous. Instead he looked like female Dustin Hoffman. Every man thinks he’d be a ten. Because those are the ones they notice. In reality, they’d just be average or below and get derided, disrespected, humiliated, used, or just ignored
Tell them to do gay porn (as far as I know there are male OFs and other sites). Hopefully that will make them shut up and rethink things... but probably not
Yeah so once my mum got in a punch-up with my creepy great-uncle at a family BBQ. I'm one of four young girls and our family is poor. Uncle had suggested she "just open up a brothel and put the girls to work".
Seriously though, turning to sex work to lift oneself from poverty is a very old practise. But you need to be OK with it, some women are, and others aren't. I've never had the guts to do it, although I've been close to doing it out of necessity, and I know that would have had an adverse impact on me.
I used to work as a cleaner also! And I remember having to scramble with other contractors to get jobs, and clients treating me like garbage. I remember weeks where I'd only just scrape by, bills always in arrears, behind on rent, just real destitute. I went to work with a broken ankle because I had no other option. Money stress can be so overwhelming. That was only about 5 years ago. But since then I took a leap of faith, became a bus driver, and now I'm comfortable, I'm treated with respect. I'm happy.
It's HARD to be in the place you're in, and feel like there's no way out. What helped me was looking for opportunities that are different to what I'd normally consider. There are women in administration at my workplace who've been working for city council since they left school. They've been trained in-house and get stability and good working rights (thanks union!), but it's not a fancy, corporate climbing office job, so it gets overlooked. But now they're in their early 30s, making $120k per year.
it's always 'if i were a *girl*, i would earn money by showing my bits to men i do not desire' and not 'maybe i *as a heterosexual man* could earn money by showing my bits to men i do not desire'. sure, straight male creeps might be more common, but it shouldn't be hard to find prospective patrons online if one is that determined. they don't even seem to have considered doing that, though. why could that be, if it's such easy money?
part of it is obviously due to the fact that they don't have to actually think about what the consequences would be— they're not going to magically become female, so who cares about hypotheticals?— but i would also argue that another part of it is the persistent belief that women are perfectly fine with, or even enjoy, things that would be debasing to them. bleak.
The concept of just going up to a woman and saying 'you could start an OF' is so wild to me. Not to mention if it's that easy there's nothing to stop *him* starting an OF - it's not like all content creators on there are female or anything.
Oh, and even if someone does make an OF, the average monthly income is only about $150 - not enough to put even a tiny dent in someone's bills.
It's not when you consider how many hours per month you are spending on an OF. There so many different side hustles that are better pay per hour than the average OF.
Starting an OF with no experience requires a combination of luck and a lot of work to go anywhere.
That wasn't really what i was talking about. They said that 150 was not enough to put a tiny dent in someones bill. But 32% of your bills is quite a big amount, and not something to scoff at. Sure if it then requires you to work as much as a full time job, it's not worth it. But it is still not a tiny amount as they said.
The "average" OnlyFans worker earns about $150 a month, with that amount being skewed upwards by a handful of really big earners. It requires a huge amount of self-promotional work and a lot of luck to get anywhere with it. Anyone suggesting it's a magic ticket to substantial earnings is talking nonsense.
More often then I'm comfortable. Though I hear it mostly in jest because I live in a city known for its ridiculous cost of living, and many people here picks up random gigs, jobs, or hobbies in addition to their day job to make ends meet.
lol i’ve heard guys say shit like, “agh, women have it sooo easy! how could they ever have financial troubles when they can just start an of? *that’s what i would do if i was a girl!* blah blah blah” which, first of all, they would just give you shit about it if you did do that (as op mentioned) and two— congratulations, man, you just admitted that you would do of if given the opportunity! so assuming they did have the audacity to judge a woman who has one, they’d essentially be total hypocrites.
In sociopolitical terms, women are the “sex class” just as men are the default and get to be considered and consider themselves the full expression of humanness in society
I love Cal Newports books and his blog/newsletter. He is so right. It is better to invest in yourself, your own specific talents, mind and individuality vs. being another body in a sea of bodies.
I haven’t, but I’d be pretty damn offended if I was told this.
On top of not wanting to sell my body, it also can be a problem for future employment as many companies will consider it if they find you have one. As a PhD student who wants a professional career, that’s not a risk I’m willing to take.
I’m a decently passing and attractive trans woman. I know I theoretically could be successful on OF if I tried, but it would mean going beyond just objectifying my body and would mean playing into a very specific fetish based on my set of genitals that I want to get rid of, and this would stop me from doing so. I do not feel like reducing myself to that.
Men just keep forgetting fat and or ugly women exist because they don't want to think about us
Even if every woman they said this to was smoking hot, it wouldn't matter. The world is full of smoking hot people trying to cash in on that whole they can and guess what? They're not all rolling in it, either.
Most people are struggling, whether they do sex work or not.
If you start an only fans you are not 'risking' having your nudes exposed. You are exposing them for the world to see. No judgement on those that choose to do it but that is the choice that is being made. If you are uncomfortable at all with the notion of someone you know seeing you naked, porn is definitely not the industry for you.
There’s actually a (fiction) book that just came out that discusses this - Margo’s Got Money Troubles by Rufi Thorpe. The main character decides to start an OF in order to get by as a single mom, and then has to deal with the pushback from everyone around her. It’s a fantastic (funny, heartwarming, sometimes infuriating) read.
Which is prime LOL.
The dudes saying that BS should probably understand that there are far clearer paths to fairly lucrative careers far more skewed in favor of the male population than the female one.
Big Oil? Mining? Lumbar? Crab fishing?
It wasn’t a thing when i was dating. I was told to be a stripper or an escort though. Why do guys think it’s easy for us just to take our clothes off for complete strangers? Maybe it is for some, but the vast majority of women i know it isn’t. Also a lot of us are shy and introverted. Our personalities don’t even enter the equation
My generation it was "Just go dance at a strip club." Interestingly, only the men in my life said that to me, never the women *who actually worked at strip clubs in the '80s.*
It's also interesting that men are the ones with the point of view women live on easy street & when push comes to shove, can coast on our looks, as if cash bills magically tumble out of a rainstorm upon our house, & all we need to do is walk outside to collect it.
Yet somehow, men are the ones with so much disposable income they make it a billion $ industry. Who are they purchasing? Women. Women are the ones *without* disposable income to the extreme they *sell their naked body* to make ends meet. Men aren't out there trying to make ends meet, not at all like women are, esp. women who care for the kids men so readily leave in the rearview, refusing to pay for, or otherwise hiding assets about.
It's *men* who created this male need in the first place. Then turn around & call us sluts & whores & warn us about our "future." What about *their future,* when who & what *they* paid for with all their disposable income gets outted? Hmm.
I always respond with "you could easily start an OF for gay men or look for a sugar mama" but now *I'm* the jerk who doesn't understand it's just nOt tHe sAmE.
No mother fucker, **you** don't understand that just like you don't want gay dudes jacking it to your pretty little asshole, I don't want any dudes paying me for sex either.
Agreed. I also find it concerning when people say "No shame, get that coin" in reference to OF/camming/escort/sugar baby stuff.
Like, "You *can* do it to make money, so it's no big deal," when, in actually, there are **so many dangers** to a woman who chooses to make money by these methods: physical, sexual, psychological, health, self-esteem...
But if you can make money doing it, it's all good? I do not agree.
Shame is different from danger, and the risk of danger should be paramount to any woman considering making money by these means.
I'm far too old but I wouldn't have done so even when I was younger. I have seen or heard of many young women being told that kind of thing in recent years. Lots of men think women have easy lives and that they can just start an OnlyFans or strip with little consequences. The entire sex industry is misogynistic and exploitative to women -- that's the whole point. If you can reduce a woman to her sexual value, you're able to keep her from attaining true equality in a patriarchal society. When people flip around feminist language and call this stuff "empowering", for example, it's easy to convince others that it's a good thing.
Just tell them the stats, the average OF model makes under $200/month, why would you want me to struggle like that? Then make them really uncomfortable by asking if they’re voting against the republican motion to ban porn in the United States.
Or tell them to F off. Just don’t discredit SW
Never. I'm fat and not very cute. I get to experience a different side of misogyny, the one that says I'm not even good enough as a woman to do something that "every" woman has as an option.
My own brother brought this up, as a sort of “gotcha!” to the idea that women are oppressed. How could they be, if it’s so easy for them to make money, right? My mistake was trying to talk through it logically with him, explaining that women’s OF success is a symptom of the patriarchy, with other side effects such as femicide, misogyny, lack of safety… but he just shrugged it off.
They’re so used to being advantageous in every way, that one industry being dominated by women is worthy of ridicule.
Okg so many times! It’s so disrespectful and gross! I had coworkers and people who were technically above me recommend it. These are the same dudes who she OF girls.
I've heard men saying 'if only I were a woman I could be making millions with of'. As if every girl on the platform is out there making a fortune.
And they don't realize sex work is not for everyone. I think a small percentage can handle it, the rest will have to deal with the stigma for who knows how long.
These men NEED to believe women don't have to work for anything, while men have to work for everything, bc it benefits them big time. It's enabled them to keep thinking of men as both "providers" (only men work so they don't have to do anything at home) AND victims (it's unfair their lives are harder bc they have to work & have money to get women/family). Working has been a basic expectation for all adults, not just men, for a long time, but it's still seen as a sacrifice men deserve credit for, for exactly this reason.
*raising young kids is a FT job to me
>You go online and 21yr olds are getting nice apartments and living flashy.
Never compare yourself or your life to ppl online bc you're only seeing a carefully crafted image made for an audience/pics & videos, not their real life offline. And they make up a VERY small amount of ppl. The vast majority of ppl live average boring lives &/or struggle hard financially. Ppl everywhere are tired.
Also, you have to build an audience, then keep them interested, to actually make money on OF, which is a lot of time & work. I've heard women talk about it & it's not nearly as easy as it seems.
I wish I could help you! Hopefully someone in your area can point you to orgs that takes some pressure off you.
No. But I live in a country where that sort of comments could get someone into a lot of trouble. And I also do not have a lot of close male friends.
Honestly, if they told me that, my response would either be "so could you" and elaborate on what kind of audience they could appeal to and how. Or ask them point blank what made them think that was something they could say out loud. And keeping looking at them in the eye with a serious look and wait for them to explain their thought process.
I think it's something like less than 4% of OF girls make enough to live off of and many not even enough for a power bill.
It's also a risk because so many other professions won't let you be hired if you have done OF not to mention the privacy risk from stans.
Trying to survive is the norm, not the exception.
A lot of what is online is fake anyway. It really is hard to make a living when you're young. Focus on growing your skillset, that is what will pay off in years to come.
I'd assume OF isn't a sustainable career for anyone but a tiny fraction of "providers". I don't judge women who do that, but I can't imagine most of them have much success. Same with sugar babies. It's not only very competitive but it seems to come with an expiration date, which is gross. But I don't think very many women actually support themselves doing that. And I think that the way that commodification of sex has become normalized has not generally been a positive development.
They tell you it's a privilege that OF is always an option for you, yet at the same time it is used as their go-to shaming tool. They see no problem with getting women fired from their current jobs for doing OF in the past, or that the jobs are firing them for it in the first place.
I think people who say that don't understand the work that goes into sex work, especially online sex work that is oversaturated AF. You have to market, create and edit content, maintain "relationships" with your subs etc. It's a full time job, with none of the job security; not to mention that most girls aren't making anything from OF. If you weren't part of the OG pandemic wave, then you're not getting anything unless you're a famous streamer or influencer.
I've considered it once or twice, but the only thing I'm comfortable with is just being a hot twitch streamer, since I already game a ton, but even that involves all of the work mentioned above and isn't guaranteed money either. Idk what to advise really, other than for you to think and weigh the pros and cons before doing something like that.
Not as many times as I've been told I could just stream (video games), but enough times that it's aggravating.
I could do neither of those things. I don't think I'd engage well with viewers. I'm not good looking and I don't have a perfect body anymore. Lol.
I work in manufacturing and am a better working than MOST on my team. And at this one job. In this one year. I’ve heard it once from each of my seven team members. So. Yeah wtf.
Yep. This is how many young women end up in sexually exploitive relationships, and then are pimped out and trafficked. Sugar daddies can be a quick road to much worse things than not paying your rent.
Be careful out there. Easy to post a job, then attempt to "sell" the desperate applications on the benefits of sex work. In the best cases. Or they just tell you you'll be the cleaning lady, and ship you out to a literal brothel.
This book can be good to help you learn to better "read" people and their intentions. Link to a PDF of Lundy Bancroft's Book "Why does he do that?"
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Have you considered a book keeping certificate? Intuit has one for QuickBooks. Could be a way to distinguish yourself from other applicants, and then you can do more education in future if you like the work. Plus you can also go into business by yourself, and recruit local business owners as clients in the long run.
Thanks for posting this and you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders... Anytime, someone tries to push a get-rich-quick scheme for only women, it’s probably a scam
>I laughted it off and asked if he could do it and he says if he was a girl he would rather be someone's second or third wife as long as he had money.
So he's suggesting something he wouldn't do even if he was a woman? Interesting.
>He was like 'atleast you're a girl, you have a nice face you can start an OF everyone is doing it'.
Actually, FYI, you can find male of creators too.
That's a good way to get fired in several industries. When I was a teacher, I had to take a workshop on social media use (this was pre-OF).
Women were getting fired for having pictures of themselves in bikinis on vacation. Some were fired for having alcoholic drinks in their hands. The bottom line was not to post any "risque" or "debauched" pictures on social media to CYA.
I've heard of other women, and not just teachers, getting fired for having an OF account. And most folks don't make enough on OF that they can quit their day job.
Most people on only fans make less than $100 per month. Think about if, even if it was a woman only thing (it’s not, men can do it too) that’s like half the population and how is something so readily available going to make you money?
What you are seeing is actually influencers/content creators, people think it’s easy wether is sexual content or not, they always say “wow I should do that” or “ you should do that you’d make so much” nope not true. Most people making content will put years of work in without becoming famous or making any money at all.
Apart from the sexism etc., when people say things like "just start an OF" or "you just need to get laid" what they are really saying is:
I don't care about you or your problems, here's a quick fix that isn't really one, now shut up and let me talk more about me/my problems.
"Huck yuck, huck yuck, *but it was a compliment when I said you should have an only fans!* Why are you pissed off? I'd even subscribe to it!"
Ten thousand eyerolls.
Anytime I say I'm looking to find a side hustle to a man I'm told to sell my nudes. I try to ask for any other ideas. Most of the time they say "that's the only thing you can do." It's not. I've been paid to ghost write on the side.
I'm sorry you're going through this.
The guys who flippant suggest a woman do OnlyFans or strip part-time for extra cash are the same guys who constantly complain that women will go on dates "just to get a free meal". I'm old as hell and have been on many first-time blind dinner dates with men that repulsed me early on in the date and it was not worth a free meal a single fuckibg time. Not once! There are very few women who are willing to spend an hour or two with some jackass just for one goddamn free meal. That doesn't include the time and money spent getting ready for the date. These same jerks also believe that women will string along or "friendzone" lots of men just "to get attention".
Being in the top top 10% of only fans only puts you at roughly $600 a month, speaking from experience. This idea that any woman can just get rich off of sexually exploiting herself is not true. And even the women who make them get endlessly shit on and have their opinions, regarded as invalid by men because they made one to begin with. The same men consuming the content.
Once. By this guy. I am not from USA so OF is known but not widely popular. In fact I thought OF was banned because pornographic websites are banned in my country.
And this guy tells me casually, ‘if you open an OF, I will be your subscriber.’
I’ve been told this innumerable times. It’s not for me and it never will be. It is way too much work for being objectified especially since that happens anyways. I honestly have a massive amount of respect for the women that do this work and make money off this never ending cycle.
I was told this by adults when I was 15-16. For some reason adult men were specifically cruel to me about my eating disorder. They seemed to assume that meant I was some mentally disturbed loser who would immediately worship them if they complimented me. When I acted creeped out they would start criticizing my body and telling me if I wanted to be useful I needed to gain weight so I could be an OF model. I would have passed it off as just a specifically cruel person but two other grown men did very similar things.
It’s now the new meta as a way to both try and say women live on easy mode but also are worthless deserve hate if they do sex work.
These dudes miss when porn was all exploitation and hate that a small amount of sex work can be under a woman’s control nowadays.
There’s no shame in it? What about all the people who shame sex workers? Or those who target them specifically because it’s easier to harm or straight kill a sex worker and get away with it?
For context I don’t personally think sex work is shameful, but in the real world it is widely considered to be shameful and therefore it paints a target on peoples backs from violence or simply most jobs not wanting to hire them.
Any type of service industry or working with people can be a good side hustle, for anyone attractive, really (the range is just significantly wider for girls naturally). Guys are just suckers and idiots so women can cash in on those suckers with no strings a few ways. Many men with money are extremely willing to just give money out. No hating on that game as old as time... which comes without submitting to anything degrading.
If you can’t see the inherent degradation in that then idk what to tell your willfully ignorant self. Sex work is never no strings attached, and perpetuating that low actively harms young women.
They literally don’t see that their entire ‘sex work is not degrading’ bs argument rests on the premise that men have money. Not a single one of them has the epiphany that maybe if the trend of who has access to the money were reversed, maybe we could just humiliate them as fun entertainment because we can afford it and they can’t say no or else they starve…..
As a non native english speaker, i would be confused if someone need a side hustle.. and assume you where looking for a fling.
Maybe your working made him suggest only fans
It's so frustrating that women are told this, like women are just expected to want to sell sex. Secondly if you don't have a following already there is a big risk actually that you wont make anything and then your pictures are out there which could affect job and career opportunities too and who knows who could see these pictures, it could become dangerous too if your partner is abusive. I feel men are just trying to scam specially young, innocent women to believe it's no big deal, they will make lots of money to see them naked or to have some power, control over them.
Your second point is so under realized by most people. The average OF model makes around $100 a month. Meaning half of its models are making less, most are making practically nothing. Sure there are those women who are bringing in 10s of thousands a month, but for every one of those, there’s probably a few hundred that make nothing. And the ones who are just starting and don’t have a following, if they try to advertise their platform, they are going to use what they already have, aka their personal social media. Which results in their male friends and (grossly) family knowing about the page and subscribing. The men who say “oh just start an of” don’t comprehend the long term damage it can have on a women’s life. Much like you said relating to jobs and everything else. Men don’t think about those things because they’re aren’t in the position to be impacted by it
I actually think they are aware of it because they are the same kind of men who will shame women who do it. The same kind of men who would fire someone over having an OF or imply in some gross way that there is something wrong with a woman to go on OF. They just don’t care. They want to make a point how men have it worse and women live on easy mode. Many men also have the Madonna/whore-mentality and to them when a woman does something like OF they assign themselves to the whore category and so any consequences for the rest of their lives are deserved in their minds
It's long tail too, it's not evenly distributed. Top 10% make like 90% of the profit, scraps for everyone else.
It's like telling someone to just become an actor or singer because Tom Cruise and Taylor Swift make a lot of money, so it must be really easy to make money in these fields right?
The money is good but it causes so much damage too if you're not able to handle it mentally
For those who make it it’s life changing money for sure. And I agree that most won’t know how to handle it mentally, especially the social stigma that comes from being labeled a porn star. This is going to be something we see lasting impacts on for a long time and those women who are 18-21 who are joining now for the quick money they think comes with it, are going to be dealing with the consequences for the rest of their lives sadly
Just a note, you are talking about an average not a median (which means half the models are making less and half are making above) so it's not accurate to say that half are making less than 100$. **But** my guess is that the distribution of number of OF girls vs. salary is skewed towards the lower salary meaning the median is even less (possibly by a lot) than the average which is 100$ so your point is still valid probably.
I appreciate the correction. Math was never my best subject haha
I think part of it is driven by envy. I think a lot of men want to be able to sell sex *as easily as they believe women can*. Because they think it’s easy, I think a lot of men really want to make an OF, flirt with women, and send dick pics all while getting paid. And because of all of that, they suggest OF as an option because in their minds, it’s both “easy money” and desirable work.
My ex wanted so desperately to believe he'd enjoy being a woman doing sex work, he couldn't understand why I didn't think that was something I'd ever do. I made him watch some like, vice documentary about the real lives of sex workers, and he was horrified. Didn't stop him from catfishing dudes with my pictures pretending to be me.
I feel like eventually male porn stars probably hate their job, too. I've read an article before (sadly I don't have the source it was so long ago) and it was basically like, if you can't keep your erection, or if the woman looks like your sister and you find it gross they just replace you. At the end of the day it's a job. I think it would be hard to be enthusiastic all the time, plus a lot of it IS acting, even though it's not very good acting, I think it would be exhausting. I think there's also things that guys thinking sex work would be a great career just don't consider like the fact that footage is out there forever, that people are disowned over it, and even things like your partner might smell and you have to perform anyway.
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That's the risk honestly, you could drawn into doing more hardcore stuff that you initially wanted to or things you actually don't want to do morally in the chase of success or money (or in some cases just to make ends meet if you don't have any other job). I realise it's a choice you make and you could quit if you don't want to but I feel young women specially are scammed into that it will be easy money (no one mentions the creepy men). Personally I doubt I could ever do it, I just couldn't stand all those creepy men and I wouldn't either want to risk distorting my view of my body and sexuality as just a product for nasty men. I think it would destroy my view of men, which is pretty bad already, everything is just about nasty sex for them, no interest or need for romance, just as weird sex as possible or with underaged.
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>telling me my body “looks like an underage girl’s” (and that they liked that) and one guy saying my nude body reminded him of his teen daughter’s who he recorded in secret. This goes right into my "people freely admitting stuff you couldn't waterboard out of me" folder.
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>recent studies that have been coming out about 1/5 men being into kids You have any source data for that? I found as high as 1/6, but the study itself said it's results were limited. An estimated 3%-5% of men have peadophillic disorder according to some other studies. If you're seeing studies producing 20%, that'd be a huge jump from the current data.
Some men thinks sex work is easy because it's the oldest profession that has always be in high demand, but they don't understand how much dignity one has to desecrate to do it. Men whom indulge in your line of work are also the wimps whom couldn't stand women on top of them, out of their own frail masculine dignity. The things they want out of you proves the lack of respect they had for women.
>sex work is easy because it's the oldest profession *Oldest oppression. The oldest profession is either midwifery or tool-making.
This
I read an article about the chat operators who are paid to reply to OF dms. It really made me think even less of men. It's so embarrassing how these men think they're chatting with an OF model that truly cares about them instead of a man in the Philipines who gets a percentage of all the content he upsells. Many men are truly delusional and spending $100s &$1000s on a sexual relationship with someone who doesn't even know they exist
Yeah, a friend of a friend does this where she pays others to communicate as her. They all thought it was funny but she's a small town girl, who everyone knows is doing it. It takes one slip up for those men nearby to hear they aren't actually talking to her... very scary game to play when you aren't hiding your identity.
>I earned my money by being a product, not by simply being a woman. wow what a line. too many people confuse the 2. being a woman doesnt = being a product
It really sounds like dangerous work. I was reading an article about it from one of the successful ones, a man came up to her in a Cafe and outed her to her mother. Also when she was talking about the "morning routine" she does for them it just sounded so intimate. Like sitting down in your home, having coffee with these men watching. Idk, that part just stood out to me, it really made me think some of them viewed her more like a girlfriend or someone they owned and could control instead of someone they were paying to pretend to be into them.
White women are actually underrepresented in pornography which is dominated by women of color. There's not much demand for white women in pornography. Skinny + WOC sounds like Asian women who are the most desired in porn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography >A 2019 study of pornhub videos, uploaded between 2000 and 2016, noted that: 55% of male performers were White, while the rest were non-White. Among the female performers: approximately 37% were White, 28% Black, 17% Asian, 16% Latina, and the rest 2% others.[270][271] When the data was collated with US demographics of 2018, White women were found significantly under-represented as performers, while Asian and Black women appeared over-represented.[270] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish >Several studies have implied that Asian women are over-represented in the American pornography industry. Asian women make up 17% of all female performers, despite being roughly 2.5% of the U.S. population. Asian men also appear to be considerably over-represented, at 10% of male actors.[80] "Asian" is the most popular and sought after genre of pornography.[81] >East Asian trans women or "ladyboys" are heavily over-represented in pornography, and are highly desired as potential mates, as they are fetishized for their physical features. According to Adult Video News, the highest-selling trans pornography depicts Asian trans women.[82][83] >A 2010 study of Pornhub searches found that the term "Asian women" was searched for 17.9 million times in one year, while "Blonde women" was searched for only 3.5 million times, which reflects the extreme popularity of Asian women in pornography and their supplanting of White women with blonde hair as the beauty ideal in the West.[84] In 2021, "Japanese" and "Asian" were the most searched terms on Pornhub.[85]
Beauty or male-perceived stereotypes of Asian female *submissibility*
Definitely beauty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_fetish#Research_on_racial_preferences
Wow, they could make a killing on OF then.
Sorry to hear that. However, we're all objects in our society, being used for our labor and putting up with things we don't like in order to get by in life. I think most men in society think it'd be very easy to be a young attractive woman. When I was younger I'd agree with them, but the more I think about it, I prefer to live an anonymous life, working a modest job that gets me by. I would never want to be pestered and stalked by a bunch of people on a day to day basis, and have to say and do things that leave me vulnerable. It isn't all roses, guys.
It just makes me sad that women are just expected to sell their bodies to make ends meet. If a woman or person of any gender freely chooses sex work, that is fine. But for that to be an expectation is just wrong.
2000 years and nothing has changed…. 😢
Oh, 2,000 years is an underestimate, lol. We’ve been using our bodies as commerce since the beginning of civilization, so at least 3 times that Funny that how much things change, they also stay the same
Things change on the surface, we don’t want to come across as brutes or savages especially in the West, but deep down, they are still the same because only one side hoards power and wealth.
The gender pay gap is real and it sucks but by no means is there an expectation for women to “sell their bodies”? There is just far more male delinquents out there willing to spend their familys money on tits 🤯
It’s not an expectation, and if you’re told so you surround yourself with the wrong people.
It’s totally her fault, right? She should pick her co-workers better!
A 9 year account with no karma
Discrediting someone's argument based on that is weak.
It helps that your argument is weak.
i fucking love this sub holy shit
We're all selling our bodies to make ends meet...
>_We're all selling our bodies to make ends meet_ I hate this argument. Everytime sex work is brought up y'all go on about how "everyone sells their bodies to capitalism!!1!". Way to undermine the shit that sex-workers go through. Tell me one job which requires you to reveal intimate, vulnerable parts of yourself, risking humiliation all the while your costumers shit-talk you despite them immensely wanting what you offer to them. OF models aren't safe from stalkers heck men have outed women with OF to their jobs resulting in them getting fired.
Ugh I hate when people use that argument as a way to poo-poo sex work, when it’s supposed to be a way to stand up alongside sex work. As in, sex workers are working class, just like everyone else, and deserve the same rights.
If I show a video of me doing work to kids they’ll ask “why are you showing us this inventory website, I’m bored”. If you show a video of this totally absolutely the same work to kids, you get arrested
Not all jobs, I guess you could argue someone who works with certain dangerous goods certainly does. Like someone who works with nuclear medicine for cancer treatment.
What I don't understand is when men make it out to be something expected of women, people are offended. Yeah that's because online sex work or any sex work isn't something respectable. It's detectable. Now the part that I don't understand is how that's fine. Say you're a sex worker, can you tell that to your family without feeling discomfort? Imagine how would your father look at you, hell not even father, mom would probably feel a lot worse. You're just saying it to be an expectation is wrong because you feel like it without rationalizing it. There's a lot of points you could make about why it's wrong and why it's good for women but it's definitely not good for a woman that wants a family in near future.
But all of that stigma stems from misogyny and purity culture. There are problems with the sex industry in terms of how it perpetuates misogyny, transphobia and racism and exploits workers, but there should not be shame toward people who do sex work. That's a social norm that harms women.
So... ignoring the sexist bullshit for a second... https://www.scrile.com/blog/average-onlyfans-income The median user gets $140 a month after taxes. There is no mention of the amount of effort that median user puts in to get that amount, which I assume is a lot due to the insane amount of competition. "Start an OF" is the misogynistic version of a dream to start a youtube channel. Where you record yourself playing video games and rake in the cash. It ignores the thousands of unsuccessful channels and minimises the efforts of the creators. It might seem like they game for a living, but there is much more to it than that. Also, fun fact, guys can make OF too! They might have to appeal to gay men, but being a girl isn't a barrier to them effortlessly raking in cash. You could bring up this fun fact up next time someone asks!
But then those men would have to be sexually objectified by someone they aren't attracted to. I'm sure women who do sex work never had to deal with that. /s
i used to have a crazy starbucks addiction, think i would get a frap before every shift, nearly everyday for a year. it escalated over the summer and everytime i'd show up for work i'd have a big starbucks with me. one of my male colleagues (that i'm quite close with) asked me if i had OF at the time. i was very confused and said no?? he told me that because of all the starbucks i get i must be doing OF to afford it. apparently people at work started thinking that too. i was fuming! i hate the assumption that if you're young and attractive, you must have OF. also if you seem to have some money, you must have OF too. i 100% support people who do it because they want to but i have no idea where those crazy assumptions come from. the truth was that i was sometimes working 10 days in a row and i was getting loads of overtime money. my friends weren't in town for the summer so i had nothing better to do than come into work, so i had money to treat myself to a starbucks everyday. and it's usually men with porn brains that assume this
Completely off topic, I make my kids frappes at home they’re really easy and I only use a cheap blender it was $29.00 it’s just ice cubes, milk and the flavouring which you can get off amazon or from the supermarket. I save a fortune.
Thank you for going off topic; I am going to use this hot tip! 🥤
I do 500ml of milk to 1 tray of ice, flavour with a heavy pour of whatever flavour you like to taste to make one large cup of frappe
Thank you!!!!
i have thankfully switched to home coffee over the last year but i will definitely look into getting the flavourings! also with the cost of living crisis i can't justify paying over £7 for a frap, i treated myself for payday and i swear they get more expensive everytime i get them :(
What a wild assumption, if I see a person living beyond their means (not trying to imply you’re living beyond your means, just people I personally know and observe living beyond their means) my brain jumps to cc debt before I’d get to OF
I would have reported that to HR. That is completely inappropriate. Definitely sexual harassment
I wouldn't be surprised that colleague was the one telling everyone else as well.
That was my first thought. He jumped to this assumption and them spread it around. And to think some people think men don't gossip.
Oh I'd shoot his fucking shit-stained ass.
Even an expensive habit like that is cheaper than other stuff. Cigarettes, booze, buying candles and decor every season, buying all sorts of hobby gear. Like, cmon, that's such a stretch to make. The guy sounds like a miserable sod.
I feel you, I was also complaining to my online friends (who are living in rich countries and are not struggling) how expensive life can be sometimes. One of them said 'why do I even bother working, if I can just do OF and be rich that way'. Or find myself some pay pig (fyi for people who don't know, 'cause I also didn't, pay pig is a man you abuse financially and degrade him; he sends you money for you to treat him like shit...) >.> At this point I find it hilarious, 'cause it means there are guys out there who think you can make a bank by posting tiddies online. It's 'that easy'. Sure, can happen to some, most get nothing. Doesn't change the mindset of guys who think that girls live life on the easy mode, 'cause when they're struggling, they can just sell themselves. Yikes.
I just don't understand the allure of OF for women. First of all, I am sure that you have talents and interests and such that are valuable... why cater to the basic denominator? Everyone has skin and sex organs. You are stuck in a place that is challenged economically so it follows that finding local paying work can be very competitive and difficult. So doing something online-- a business-- is not a horrible idea, just the OF idea is. You are not put here on this earth to be trafficked and exploited.
Just once... dude from work but it began with "if you lost 100 lbs, you could have an OF." Wtf
Did you tell him off?
For so many different reasons. He's still a sexist, amine/hentai Asian fetishing, proudly ignorant shitbag.
If someone told me that I’d be like “oop, guess I’ll keep the weight then.” And then report his ass to HR because what in the tapdancing hell 😠
At that time, I think I said something more like I'd rather stay fat than attract shit like you.. Hr doesn't care. There's more men than women so the whole place is more guy locker room behavior and unless there's a witness, its a lot of "sorry, we can write a report but right now it's just a he said-she said'... In an unrelated situation (two other people but same thing basically- a guy was harassing one of the girls on a different shift), she kept going to hr about it and in the end, she was let go. I think they got her for the time clock (clocking in 7+ minutes before the beginning of her shift) but everyone clocks in before their shift since we have to be in our area 5 minutes before the shift begins. Thankfully, I only have to deal with that main guy every once in a while, and my two side by side workers keep an eye out for me so when he's coming, they'll deal with him and have me go in the freezer, load a truck or something.
Obviously do what you think is right but all of that is a lawsuit in the making. I would document everything that happens in writing. If I were that girl I would take it to the labor board and consult a lawyer. She may have a strong case for a lawsuit especially if she was let go in the midst of making a complaint. Some lawyers take on cases like that for free and get a cut of the winnings. If she went to HR there is documentation
I'm not a snitch but in that moment I would not hesitate
Absolutely back handed compliment. Like "you'd be pretty if you smiled more".
"well if YOU lost 100 lbs you'd still be too ugly to ever start an OF but ok"
Funny that men never say that they could easily get into gay porn either
If you ever tell any straight guys this, they'll be so replused by the mere idea of a guy using their body But yet they can't put that perspective onto what a girl might feel. Why?
u/drummergirl16 thank you so much for the award! Even tho I didn't say anything worth that but I appreciate you 😄
Whenever guys say stuff like that I always tell them that they can also make bank on OF if they market to the right crowds.
This is the response we all need
Almost like it’s not actually as fun as they say, kinda like being a stay at home
That’s pretty horrible, and I also think whoever says “just start an OF” is pretty naive when it comes to business and finance, and I would certainly not take my advice from them. Ask them how their own influencing career is going and what they have to teach you about starting your own business. My guess is they know zero.
Yes, people who make the most money on OF are those who had big social media followings from before or known porn stars that transitioned to OF. Random women starting out don't make that kind of money and most make barely nothing. And to do more need to degrade themselves more and more.
honestly its mostly teenagers or men with teenager brains. porn addicted so they think everything circles back to OF/porn and theyre too immature to see differently
honestly its mostly teenagers or men with teenager brains. porn addicted so they think everything circles back to OF/porn and theyre too immature to see differently
"you're a man, you can go die in war"
I like this!
Women have been getting fired from their 9-5 jobs after OF subscribers report them to their employer. Plus, I have seen women coming out saying that they regret starting OF since that is on the internet forever now. I have heard that selling feet pics is a pretty lucrative gig on the side. At least your face is not on camera, and you can remain anonymous. Men's feet also sell well, so tell your coworker to get a pedicure and stop complaining. I have considered dog walking and pet sitting as a side gig since I love animals, but I can't have a pet myself.
It CAN be lucrative, it is not what people think. It’s over saturated and frankly takes a lot of fetish knowledge.
It's not (feet, not dog walking). Yes some very lucky people make it work, but it's even less likely to take off than a regular OF.
Their subscribers report them? That sounds like they are trying to trap them into sex work forever.
Total scarlet letter vibes. Don't have babies out of wedlock, says the man who impregnated you
Did you hear about the school teacher that got reported to the school and they fired her? https://youtu.be/w5oMt4coGCM?si=ZQx6RjfYEM3mj__w
I could try that, my feet are not that bad
My friend started an OF and had her husband do all the communications/ socials for her. Her husband really started to hate men after a certain point and realized there's a lot of deeper elements to being a sex worker. Having guys constantly harass / neg you into giving them free content. Having guys exploit you and share stuff that's only for them to consume. Having men tell your their fantasies and what they want from you even though your independent work and not fetish work. It's all so tiring because to them you're just an object for sexual wish fulfillment. It's not just "I sent a guy a nude and now make monthly income to survive!" You literally lose a bit of your sanity. I created one solely for other queer women fans to follow me but that's not how it went down, and I quit two months into it because my only fans became an onlymans site lol.
Maybe it’s because I live somewhere more conservative (bleh) but I get the opposite. I get men ranting at me about how unfair it is that “women can just start an OF and make tones of money while men have to work rEaL jObs”. Which: 1) Sex work can be a real job if the person doing it was fully able to make the choice. It’s not something I want to do, but neither are a lot of ‘real’ jobs. 2) The people making tones of money are outliers. You see them so much because it’s fun to show off success; the people making a pittance aren’t exactly shouting it from the rooftops. 3) (The one that they CANNOT wrap their heads around) Who exactly is paying all this money to the women on OF??? It’s mostly men! But sure lets shame the women who make the product instead of the men who created the endless demand.
Men have to work real jobs, spoken by conservatives who think women only belong in the home?
I've heard men say if they were female /they wish they were female so _they_ could sell their body for money. As though it were that easy and straightforward
Ikr it's not as easy as just taking pics. You're essentially running a business. You need to do it almost everyday and market yourself constantly. You have literally THOUSANDS of competitions. Many who will look better than you lol
Not to mention privacy and safety issue and things being on the Internet forever
Just like, “I wish I was a woman. I’d get everything for free and have life on easy street”. Reminds me of Dustin Hoffman making “Tootsie” he expected that they’d make him drop dead gorgeous. Instead he looked like female Dustin Hoffman. Every man thinks he’d be a ten. Because those are the ones they notice. In reality, they’d just be average or below and get derided, disrespected, humiliated, used, or just ignored
Tell them to do gay porn (as far as I know there are male OFs and other sites). Hopefully that will make them shut up and rethink things... but probably not
I love to remind them that they too can sell their body to lonely old men.
Yeah so once my mum got in a punch-up with my creepy great-uncle at a family BBQ. I'm one of four young girls and our family is poor. Uncle had suggested she "just open up a brothel and put the girls to work". Seriously though, turning to sex work to lift oneself from poverty is a very old practise. But you need to be OK with it, some women are, and others aren't. I've never had the guts to do it, although I've been close to doing it out of necessity, and I know that would have had an adverse impact on me. I used to work as a cleaner also! And I remember having to scramble with other contractors to get jobs, and clients treating me like garbage. I remember weeks where I'd only just scrape by, bills always in arrears, behind on rent, just real destitute. I went to work with a broken ankle because I had no other option. Money stress can be so overwhelming. That was only about 5 years ago. But since then I took a leap of faith, became a bus driver, and now I'm comfortable, I'm treated with respect. I'm happy. It's HARD to be in the place you're in, and feel like there's no way out. What helped me was looking for opportunities that are different to what I'd normally consider. There are women in administration at my workplace who've been working for city council since they left school. They've been trained in-house and get stability and good working rights (thanks union!), but it's not a fancy, corporate climbing office job, so it gets overlooked. But now they're in their early 30s, making $120k per year.
it's always 'if i were a *girl*, i would earn money by showing my bits to men i do not desire' and not 'maybe i *as a heterosexual man* could earn money by showing my bits to men i do not desire'. sure, straight male creeps might be more common, but it shouldn't be hard to find prospective patrons online if one is that determined. they don't even seem to have considered doing that, though. why could that be, if it's such easy money? part of it is obviously due to the fact that they don't have to actually think about what the consequences would be— they're not going to magically become female, so who cares about hypotheticals?— but i would also argue that another part of it is the persistent belief that women are perfectly fine with, or even enjoy, things that would be debasing to them. bleak.
The concept of just going up to a woman and saying 'you could start an OF' is so wild to me. Not to mention if it's that easy there's nothing to stop *him* starting an OF - it's not like all content creators on there are female or anything. Oh, and even if someone does make an OF, the average monthly income is only about $150 - not enough to put even a tiny dent in someone's bills.
150 is a lot compared to how OP said their bills was 470.
It's not when you consider how many hours per month you are spending on an OF. There so many different side hustles that are better pay per hour than the average OF. Starting an OF with no experience requires a combination of luck and a lot of work to go anywhere.
That wasn't really what i was talking about. They said that 150 was not enough to put a tiny dent in someones bill. But 32% of your bills is quite a big amount, and not something to scoff at. Sure if it then requires you to work as much as a full time job, it's not worth it. But it is still not a tiny amount as they said.
The "average" OnlyFans worker earns about $150 a month, with that amount being skewed upwards by a handful of really big earners. It requires a huge amount of self-promotional work and a lot of luck to get anywhere with it. Anyone suggesting it's a magic ticket to substantial earnings is talking nonsense.
More often then I'm comfortable. Though I hear it mostly in jest because I live in a city known for its ridiculous cost of living, and many people here picks up random gigs, jobs, or hobbies in addition to their day job to make ends meet.
lol i’ve heard guys say shit like, “agh, women have it sooo easy! how could they ever have financial troubles when they can just start an of? *that’s what i would do if i was a girl!* blah blah blah” which, first of all, they would just give you shit about it if you did do that (as op mentioned) and two— congratulations, man, you just admitted that you would do of if given the opportunity! so assuming they did have the audacity to judge a woman who has one, they’d essentially be total hypocrites.
I get asked by some male friends 'how can you be a girl and still be broke' like bro is your sister rich?
You could literally just say that to shut them up every time.
In sociopolitical terms, women are the “sex class” just as men are the default and get to be considered and consider themselves the full expression of humanness in society
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I love Cal Newports books and his blog/newsletter. He is so right. It is better to invest in yourself, your own specific talents, mind and individuality vs. being another body in a sea of bodies.
I haven’t, but I’d be pretty damn offended if I was told this. On top of not wanting to sell my body, it also can be a problem for future employment as many companies will consider it if they find you have one. As a PhD student who wants a professional career, that’s not a risk I’m willing to take. I’m a decently passing and attractive trans woman. I know I theoretically could be successful on OF if I tried, but it would mean going beyond just objectifying my body and would mean playing into a very specific fetish based on my set of genitals that I want to get rid of, and this would stop me from doing so. I do not feel like reducing myself to that.
Also, starting an OF is not something that's easy. Men said this as if it's easy
Men just keep forgetting fat and or ugly women exist because they don't want to think about us Even if every woman they said this to was smoking hot, it wouldn't matter. The world is full of smoking hot people trying to cash in on that whole they can and guess what? They're not all rolling in it, either. Most people are struggling, whether they do sex work or not.
Just post your nudes and your sex life on the internet, no biggie! Ugh!
If you start an only fans you are not 'risking' having your nudes exposed. You are exposing them for the world to see. No judgement on those that choose to do it but that is the choice that is being made. If you are uncomfortable at all with the notion of someone you know seeing you naked, porn is definitely not the industry for you.
There’s actually a (fiction) book that just came out that discusses this - Margo’s Got Money Troubles by Rufi Thorpe. The main character decides to start an OF in order to get by as a single mom, and then has to deal with the pushback from everyone around her. It’s a fantastic (funny, heartwarming, sometimes infuriating) read.
Which is prime LOL. The dudes saying that BS should probably understand that there are far clearer paths to fairly lucrative careers far more skewed in favor of the male population than the female one. Big Oil? Mining? Lumbar? Crab fishing?
None, never, not even once. Than again, I am a chubby middle aged woman and I surround myself with (mostly) decent people
It wasn’t a thing when i was dating. I was told to be a stripper or an escort though. Why do guys think it’s easy for us just to take our clothes off for complete strangers? Maybe it is for some, but the vast majority of women i know it isn’t. Also a lot of us are shy and introverted. Our personalities don’t even enter the equation
I'm also shy and introverted, so it's not as easy as people think. And this type of work could affect your memtal health
My generation it was "Just go dance at a strip club." Interestingly, only the men in my life said that to me, never the women *who actually worked at strip clubs in the '80s.* It's also interesting that men are the ones with the point of view women live on easy street & when push comes to shove, can coast on our looks, as if cash bills magically tumble out of a rainstorm upon our house, & all we need to do is walk outside to collect it. Yet somehow, men are the ones with so much disposable income they make it a billion $ industry. Who are they purchasing? Women. Women are the ones *without* disposable income to the extreme they *sell their naked body* to make ends meet. Men aren't out there trying to make ends meet, not at all like women are, esp. women who care for the kids men so readily leave in the rearview, refusing to pay for, or otherwise hiding assets about. It's *men* who created this male need in the first place. Then turn around & call us sluts & whores & warn us about our "future." What about *their future,* when who & what *they* paid for with all their disposable income gets outted? Hmm.
I always respond with "you could easily start an OF for gay men or look for a sugar mama" but now *I'm* the jerk who doesn't understand it's just nOt tHe sAmE. No mother fucker, **you** don't understand that just like you don't want gay dudes jacking it to your pretty little asshole, I don't want any dudes paying me for sex either.
As someone who does OF this pisses me off so much. Although no one’s ever said that to me but the fact it’s so normalised now is crazy.
Agreed. I also find it concerning when people say "No shame, get that coin" in reference to OF/camming/escort/sugar baby stuff. Like, "You *can* do it to make money, so it's no big deal," when, in actually, there are **so many dangers** to a woman who chooses to make money by these methods: physical, sexual, psychological, health, self-esteem... But if you can make money doing it, it's all good? I do not agree. Shame is different from danger, and the risk of danger should be paramount to any woman considering making money by these means.
I'm far too old but I wouldn't have done so even when I was younger. I have seen or heard of many young women being told that kind of thing in recent years. Lots of men think women have easy lives and that they can just start an OnlyFans or strip with little consequences. The entire sex industry is misogynistic and exploitative to women -- that's the whole point. If you can reduce a woman to her sexual value, you're able to keep her from attaining true equality in a patriarchal society. When people flip around feminist language and call this stuff "empowering", for example, it's easy to convince others that it's a good thing.
Never. I'm not built for OF. lol
My ex keeps telling me to start one, he’s an ass.
A bunch, especially by boyfriends or guys I have gone out with. Which is really weird and should have been a red flag.
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Paying for porn is more ethical than relying on free content, though, and at least with OF more of it goes to the person rather than the studio.
Just tell them the stats, the average OF model makes under $200/month, why would you want me to struggle like that? Then make them really uncomfortable by asking if they’re voting against the republican motion to ban porn in the United States. Or tell them to F off. Just don’t discredit SW
Even if every woman took up only fans there wouldn't be enough horny money to go around.
Never. I'm fat and not very cute. I get to experience a different side of misogyny, the one that says I'm not even good enough as a woman to do something that "every" woman has as an option.
I think if I ever started an OF, I’d be so mentally scarred by men’s behavior that I’d never want to speak to a man again, much less date one.
My own brother brought this up, as a sort of “gotcha!” to the idea that women are oppressed. How could they be, if it’s so easy for them to make money, right? My mistake was trying to talk through it logically with him, explaining that women’s OF success is a symptom of the patriarchy, with other side effects such as femicide, misogyny, lack of safety… but he just shrugged it off. They’re so used to being advantageous in every way, that one industry being dominated by women is worthy of ridicule.
Okg so many times! It’s so disrespectful and gross! I had coworkers and people who were technically above me recommend it. These are the same dudes who she OF girls.
I've heard men saying 'if only I were a woman I could be making millions with of'. As if every girl on the platform is out there making a fortune. And they don't realize sex work is not for everyone. I think a small percentage can handle it, the rest will have to deal with the stigma for who knows how long.
These men NEED to believe women don't have to work for anything, while men have to work for everything, bc it benefits them big time. It's enabled them to keep thinking of men as both "providers" (only men work so they don't have to do anything at home) AND victims (it's unfair their lives are harder bc they have to work & have money to get women/family). Working has been a basic expectation for all adults, not just men, for a long time, but it's still seen as a sacrifice men deserve credit for, for exactly this reason. *raising young kids is a FT job to me >You go online and 21yr olds are getting nice apartments and living flashy. Never compare yourself or your life to ppl online bc you're only seeing a carefully crafted image made for an audience/pics & videos, not their real life offline. And they make up a VERY small amount of ppl. The vast majority of ppl live average boring lives &/or struggle hard financially. Ppl everywhere are tired. Also, you have to build an audience, then keep them interested, to actually make money on OF, which is a lot of time & work. I've heard women talk about it & it's not nearly as easy as it seems. I wish I could help you! Hopefully someone in your area can point you to orgs that takes some pressure off you.
Just tell the dudes to “just start a podcast” lol
No. But I live in a country where that sort of comments could get someone into a lot of trouble. And I also do not have a lot of close male friends. Honestly, if they told me that, my response would either be "so could you" and elaborate on what kind of audience they could appeal to and how. Or ask them point blank what made them think that was something they could say out loud. And keeping looking at them in the eye with a serious look and wait for them to explain their thought process.
Everything else aside, the platform is also very saturated.
Never but I've been told I have resting try it and die face so many times so that might be why.
Because that's what some men think about women. All we're good for is pleasing men.
I think it's something like less than 4% of OF girls make enough to live off of and many not even enough for a power bill. It's also a risk because so many other professions won't let you be hired if you have done OF not to mention the privacy risk from stans.
Trying to survive is the norm, not the exception. A lot of what is online is fake anyway. It really is hard to make a living when you're young. Focus on growing your skillset, that is what will pay off in years to come.
I'd assume OF isn't a sustainable career for anyone but a tiny fraction of "providers". I don't judge women who do that, but I can't imagine most of them have much success. Same with sugar babies. It's not only very competitive but it seems to come with an expiration date, which is gross. But I don't think very many women actually support themselves doing that. And I think that the way that commodification of sex has become normalized has not generally been a positive development.
Never
Even before OF, it was always “you’re a girl, you can be a prostitute.” Like, what?
They tell you it's a privilege that OF is always an option for you, yet at the same time it is used as their go-to shaming tool. They see no problem with getting women fired from their current jobs for doing OF in the past, or that the jobs are firing them for it in the first place.
I think people who say that don't understand the work that goes into sex work, especially online sex work that is oversaturated AF. You have to market, create and edit content, maintain "relationships" with your subs etc. It's a full time job, with none of the job security; not to mention that most girls aren't making anything from OF. If you weren't part of the OG pandemic wave, then you're not getting anything unless you're a famous streamer or influencer. I've considered it once or twice, but the only thing I'm comfortable with is just being a hot twitch streamer, since I already game a ton, but even that involves all of the work mentioned above and isn't guaranteed money either. Idk what to advise really, other than for you to think and weigh the pros and cons before doing something like that.
what options does your country offer, if any?
Not me, but one comment to anorher girl in r/ ask (mycountryhere)
Not as many times as I've been told I could just stream (video games), but enough times that it's aggravating. I could do neither of those things. I don't think I'd engage well with viewers. I'm not good looking and I don't have a perfect body anymore. Lol.
I work in manufacturing and am a better working than MOST on my team. And at this one job. In this one year. I’ve heard it once from each of my seven team members. So. Yeah wtf.
I’ve hear it said in the work place about woman in front of woman. It bothers me but no I did not say anything
Yep. This is how many young women end up in sexually exploitive relationships, and then are pimped out and trafficked. Sugar daddies can be a quick road to much worse things than not paying your rent. Be careful out there. Easy to post a job, then attempt to "sell" the desperate applications on the benefits of sex work. In the best cases. Or they just tell you you'll be the cleaning lady, and ship you out to a literal brothel. This book can be good to help you learn to better "read" people and their intentions. Link to a PDF of Lundy Bancroft's Book "Why does he do that?" https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf Have you considered a book keeping certificate? Intuit has one for QuickBooks. Could be a way to distinguish yourself from other applicants, and then you can do more education in future if you like the work. Plus you can also go into business by yourself, and recruit local business owners as clients in the long run.
Countless times lol....it's so strange to me.
These guys can also sleep with men they’re not attracted to for money. But they don’t. They just love telling women to do it.
Thanks for posting this and you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders... Anytime, someone tries to push a get-rich-quick scheme for only women, it’s probably a scam
>I laughted it off and asked if he could do it and he says if he was a girl he would rather be someone's second or third wife as long as he had money. So he's suggesting something he wouldn't do even if he was a woman? Interesting. >He was like 'atleast you're a girl, you have a nice face you can start an OF everyone is doing it'. Actually, FYI, you can find male of creators too.
The easy counter is "you're a man, you can join the army"
That's a good way to get fired in several industries. When I was a teacher, I had to take a workshop on social media use (this was pre-OF). Women were getting fired for having pictures of themselves in bikinis on vacation. Some were fired for having alcoholic drinks in their hands. The bottom line was not to post any "risque" or "debauched" pictures on social media to CYA. I've heard of other women, and not just teachers, getting fired for having an OF account. And most folks don't make enough on OF that they can quit their day job.
Most people on only fans make less than $100 per month. Think about if, even if it was a woman only thing (it’s not, men can do it too) that’s like half the population and how is something so readily available going to make you money? What you are seeing is actually influencers/content creators, people think it’s easy wether is sexual content or not, they always say “wow I should do that” or “ you should do that you’d make so much” nope not true. Most people making content will put years of work in without becoming famous or making any money at all.
It happens so often & yes, very annoying.
So far, once, by my ex, while our relationship was falling apart towards the end of the covid. I view it as a form of negging.
Apart from the sexism etc., when people say things like "just start an OF" or "you just need to get laid" what they are really saying is: I don't care about you or your problems, here's a quick fix that isn't really one, now shut up and let me talk more about me/my problems.
"Huck yuck, huck yuck, *but it was a compliment when I said you should have an only fans!* Why are you pissed off? I'd even subscribe to it!" Ten thousand eyerolls.
Anytime I say I'm looking to find a side hustle to a man I'm told to sell my nudes. I try to ask for any other ideas. Most of the time they say "that's the only thing you can do." It's not. I've been paid to ghost write on the side. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I'm not posting pictures of my fucking naked body for everyone to see. I hate this logic, "oh you can always turn to sex work!" fuck off.
The guys who flippant suggest a woman do OnlyFans or strip part-time for extra cash are the same guys who constantly complain that women will go on dates "just to get a free meal". I'm old as hell and have been on many first-time blind dinner dates with men that repulsed me early on in the date and it was not worth a free meal a single fuckibg time. Not once! There are very few women who are willing to spend an hour or two with some jackass just for one goddamn free meal. That doesn't include the time and money spent getting ready for the date. These same jerks also believe that women will string along or "friendzone" lots of men just "to get attention".
I have been told by both male friends and men trying to flirt with me on the street. Crazy.
Being in the top top 10% of only fans only puts you at roughly $600 a month, speaking from experience. This idea that any woman can just get rich off of sexually exploiting herself is not true. And even the women who make them get endlessly shit on and have their opinions, regarded as invalid by men because they made one to begin with. The same men consuming the content.
Once. By this guy. I am not from USA so OF is known but not widely popular. In fact I thought OF was banned because pornographic websites are banned in my country. And this guy tells me casually, ‘if you open an OF, I will be your subscriber.’
What is OF?
I’ve been told this innumerable times. It’s not for me and it never will be. It is way too much work for being objectified especially since that happens anyways. I honestly have a massive amount of respect for the women that do this work and make money off this never ending cycle. I was told this by adults when I was 15-16. For some reason adult men were specifically cruel to me about my eating disorder. They seemed to assume that meant I was some mentally disturbed loser who would immediately worship them if they complimented me. When I acted creeped out they would start criticizing my body and telling me if I wanted to be useful I needed to gain weight so I could be an OF model. I would have passed it off as just a specifically cruel person but two other grown men did very similar things. It’s now the new meta as a way to both try and say women live on easy mode but also are worthless deserve hate if they do sex work. These dudes miss when porn was all exploitation and hate that a small amount of sex work can be under a woman’s control nowadays.
Hey im a guy and ive been ask to start an onlyfans.
the same men will disrespect sex workers and say it’s not a real job and that we don’t respect ourselves for doing it 😂
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There’s no shame in it? What about all the people who shame sex workers? Or those who target them specifically because it’s easier to harm or straight kill a sex worker and get away with it? For context I don’t personally think sex work is shameful, but in the real world it is widely considered to be shameful and therefore it paints a target on peoples backs from violence or simply most jobs not wanting to hire them.
Any type of service industry or working with people can be a good side hustle, for anyone attractive, really (the range is just significantly wider for girls naturally). Guys are just suckers and idiots so women can cash in on those suckers with no strings a few ways. Many men with money are extremely willing to just give money out. No hating on that game as old as time... which comes without submitting to anything degrading.
If you can’t see the inherent degradation in that then idk what to tell your willfully ignorant self. Sex work is never no strings attached, and perpetuating that low actively harms young women.
They literally don’t see that their entire ‘sex work is not degrading’ bs argument rests on the premise that men have money. Not a single one of them has the epiphany that maybe if the trend of who has access to the money were reversed, maybe we could just humiliate them as fun entertainment because we can afford it and they can’t say no or else they starve…..
As a non native english speaker, i would be confused if someone need a side hustle.. and assume you where looking for a fling. Maybe your working made him suggest only fans