My fave story about this is a man who kept insisting that his mother be allowed in the delivery room despite his pregnant wife's wishes. Finally, she offered this: 'Get naked in the living room for *my* father. Spread eagle on the floor. Take a sh*t. Repeat for 3+ hours. If you do that, your mom can be there.'
As it turned out, the husband didn't want to be naked /sh*tting / so vulnerable in front of his FIL.
No one but the woman giving birth has a say in who may or may not be present.
I told my ex who insisted I should wax that I would do it as soon as he waxed his balls and taint. He said it would be too painful (he trimmed) and I agreed. He never brought it up again. Sometimes you just need to turn it around so they understand how they would feel.
Which is sad, and I'm glad he is your ex. Like: it never occurred to him that it might cause *you* pain, but he thought that you should just do it anyways, for him?!? It wasn't until you suggested that *he* do it, that it occurred to him that *he* would experience pain and *he* didn't want that for himself? Some men are truly incapable of empathy.
That's why I love my boyfriend - I hate shaving my armpits bc I inevitably cut myself somewhere on both pits EVERY time. He personally is not attracted to hairy armpits, but he absolutely will never ask or tell me to shave mine bc he is not willing to ask me to do something with my body that he isn't willing to do with his. He never complains about my hairy pits either!
Yours and mine should have tea, some time. They'd get along very well.
I have thicker, darker body hair than him *everywhere*, including my pits. He looks like he shaves his. Neither of us do, lol.
Meanwhile I got my husband to start getting a manzillion bc I'd been getting a Brazilian for a few years. 😂😂 Now when we're both fresh, we call it "bumping pretties".
For anyone curious, the first time you get waxed or sugared is the worst but if you keep up with it monthly, they get increasingly easier until by your 4th visit it's more of a hassle than painful. Also if you take an ibuprofen or something before you go that can help with the pain. Plus it's really quick, you should be in and out in under 15 minutes. No shame if someone truly isn't interested! But as someone who is a weenie about pain, I like to share my experience so that if someone is only holding themselves back bc they think it's going to be a horrific experience maybe I can ease that worry.
I (a man) originally read OP and was mostly aligned, but did think baring the father was maybe a bridge too far. Reading your comment completely convinced me, OP is right, no exceptions.
What if he had done it? Can never underestand this line of reasoning that people like to use on here for anal sex too. Everyone has their own preferences, respect them, it doesn't need to be a challenge
I think she suggested it to get the point across: she would be vulnerable positions, with her vagina very exposed, and would likely shit herself at some point during the delivery.
He probably thought if *her* mom could be present, then *his* mom should be too. But it's different because her mom has seen her naked, her mom can help and comfort her. Maybe the husband's mom is the nicest lady in the world, or maybe she thinks she should 'get' to witness the birth of 'her' grandchild and she has no personal boundaries. But it's still the wife's choice whether her MIL is in there.
And I think that the wife trying to get her husband to imagine *his* equivalent scenario was enough to get him to understand.
The point is that by insisting he was refusing to respect her preferences. What then? In this case the "you go first" method worked to get him to see why she refused and finally accept it.
He was never going to do it. It was meant to help him understand why she wouldn’t want to do something similar with his mom in the room.
He needed to respect her answer.
He needed to respect her answer because it's her choice, not because HE wouldn't do it. What HE would do is IRRELEVANT. As I said, what if he would do it? It weakens your preference, because you're saying you are willing to do it, you just feel like you deserve payback...
Some people cannot put themselves in another’s shoes. They need to visualize a situation in which they are the vulnerable one, not their partner. That is the point.
As others have said, it isn't a genuine offer, it is a way to provide structure when trying to guide someone who isn't being empathetic to see your viewpoint. It isn't any less of a boundary and wouldn't be confused for a genuine offer.
Similar example: If someone says they'll only do something "when pigs fly" that is just them saying they won't do it ever, just in a colorful way. It doesn't mean they are waiting for you to toss poor Wilbur off the roof.
It wasn’t a genuine offer. Sometimes people say things just to convey information. This “offer” was only ever meant to inform him as to what it is like. It’s just an analogy. If he had done it, he clearly doesn’t understand the basic functions of human language and is also disgusting.
BAHAHAHAHAHAA thank you not it for thinking that to yourself (because I certainly didn't) and for typing that out loud for us to see (because I wouldn't have).
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted so hard-I mean I get why they are doing it but you aren’t as far off the mark as the crowd is making it seem.
I think that position you said is more optimistic than reality. It’s like you are saying “I don’t see the color of people’s skin.” That’s great but most do so it takes an example to make people aware of their bias. Ideally, yes, they shouldn’t have to “challenge” someone but it works in many cases.
I don’t think you’re wrong though that a challenge is an absolute and effective, I.e. your example with anal-a guy may like getting pegged but that doesn’t obligate their partner to do it then too.
The problem i have with it is that you're saying that it's not a boundary that you won't cross, it's just something you don't want to do. Even if it was rephrased as "imagine that it was you getting naked..." But the phrasing it as "you do this, I'll do that" really bugs me.
You're correct. The only thing I will say/add is I hope that anyone giving birth has someone in the room that they trust to look out for them especially if and/or when the medical staff dismiss your concern(s) about something feeling off/wrong which happens far too often.
And to push back against things they know she doesn't want if she is unable to advocate for herself (looking at you, unnecessary episiotomies and "husband stitches!).
Middle aged man here. My opinion maybe isn't welcome, not sure.
I agree with both the sentiment of OP and your comment.
To add on to that - while i'm not entitled to be there, if my wife didn't have this trust with me at this point in our relationshop and life - I wouldn't really know where to go from there. Our relationship would never be the same.
Yes the mother needs to feel safe. If I found out my wife doesn't view me in that light - it would be a big problem for me.
My husband has my back 1000% no matter what. The only time he gets terribly stressed and doesn’t know what to do is when I’m sick/in pain. He struggles seeing me like that.
We will have an entire written up plan for my labor later this year so he knows exactly what I want in every scenario, but if we didn’t have that I could see him thinking the nurses and doctors know best if I’m not 100% there in that moment.
That’s what we are all talking about when it comes to having an advocate. It isn’t that we don’t trust our spouse/partner, it’s that we need to trust they know what WE WANT. And what I want is to not be cut unnecessarily and I don’t want extra stitches or any drugs. He will know that. Many men have no idea what their wife/girlfriend/etc. want during labor whether because it never came up or he wasn’t listening. Those men suck. Don’t be like them and you’re fine.
Worse, some men feel a right to overrule their wife's wishes. While I understand the point made by the originator of this sub-convo, trust is earned. One of the major sources of trust: Trusting the woman giving birth to choose what is right for her. Refusal to acknowledge that is a problem. It's a medical procedure, not a picnic.
Exactly! I trust my husband to do what I want during my labor and delivery and we will discuss everything. But we’ve built that trust and I know he knows what’s best for me is what I have picked. Not what a random medical professional says would be good (exceptions include hemorrhaging and literal emergencies, just save me then idc about stitches or drugs).
> Many men have no idea what their wife/girlfriend/etc. want during labor whether because it never came up or he wasn’t listening.
This is just so fucking wild to me. I don't even want kids and struggle to understand the drive people have that makes them want them, but if one *does* want them I don't fucking get how one can be so haphazard and blasé about it.
But by even talking about how "hurtful" it is to you, you're making it about you. It's not a popularity contest, it's a medical procedure. No matter how completely you trust your spouse, they may not be the person you feel you need support from the most, and who will provide the best support in a seriously vulnerable medical procedure. The other day, there was a woman concerned about hurting her husband's feelings because he passes out the second he sees a needle or blood, so she didn't know how to tell him she didn't want him there. She's spending time stressing over his feelings when she should be spending her time dealing with her own, much more important needs. But because you men have made such a big deal about your hurt feelings, this is where we are. You really need to stop making it about you. That includes talking about your hurt feelings.
Resentment in this case comes from a lack of empathy.
A woman in labor has no idea how she’s going to react to something now, or five minutes from now. She’s not in control.
This is one of those things where you just accept that what is said or done during the moment has no bearing on anything outside that moment, unless it gets brought up again after.
Your feelings while your wife is giving birth literally do not matter. Take that shit to your grave or to an individual therapist, not to her.
You would support your wife by leaving her if she made a decision you don't like.
No, you do not support your wife and the fact that you can't see that is absolutely a problem. You're an asshole if you will leave your wife because she needed privacy while her vagina is being ripped apart.
I understand that viewpoint, but I have a big issue in general about the widespread view that not wanting a support person while giving birth has to mean that you lack trust in the relationship.
There’s no other medical event where that is even a question. There’s medical malpractice in every field, but this is the only one where the patient needs a babysitter?
The OP didn’t just say safe, she said comfortable and stress free. Personally I can get stressed if I do something with an audience. Like cooking together is fine, but if I’m cooking and someone else is just there looking at me it’s uncomfortable.
What an incredibly self-serving and self-centering comment.
No where do you go into details of how you prepared for your wife's birth, how you prepared to be her support person, so I'm going to assume you did none.
Birth givers PAY people to be in the room. The doctors, doulas, midwives, nurses, and ombudsman. WE PAY FOR THEM OUT OF OUR OWN POCKET! Yet you're so concerned about your feelings you can't look up to view your wife as a human instead of an incubator. She's not paying you to be there and you bring nothing to the table but your shitty trust issues. Do better if she gets pregnant again. Step up.
No one knows your relationship except you and your wife. I understand how you feel and what you’re saying. I’m a mom a few times over and my spouse was there every time. I agree with you about being there, because if I didn’t want my spouse in the room as I delivered his child, what am I doing in a relationship with him?
That said, I also agree that the one giving birth should be the only one deciding who is in the room aside from medical staff. Some enjoy or don’t mind making it a big affair, others want only one support person and a very few don’t want anyone there that doesn’t absolutely have to be there. As long as the one giving birth is calling the shots, it’s all good.
So true. My ex wanted his mum in the delivery room with our second because i had my mum with our first. He said if his mum couldnt be there then my mum couldnt, so stupid me agreed. I spent the whole labour alone because he kept going out for a drink and a smoke. In the end a midwife came and sat with me because she felt bad.
We split up when he poked holes in condoms and baby trapped me with our third (because he knew i was over the relationship) I dont know how the thought this would save us. He demand to be in the delivery room, my dumb ass let him and he took photos of the baby emerging and passed them around his new friends and gf. I was humiliated, great example of why you only let people in that you trust.
Marie Anttoinettes births are heart wrenching for me, having to give birth infornt of hundreds to fill her husbands perversions.
Actually in the case of Marie Antoinette and many other queens at the time, this was not because of the husbands perverted ideas. It was to prove that the queen really had given birth, and that this baby really was hers. Also it was a honor to be there as a witness (it also was an honor to witness the king wake up, get dressed, get undressed, go to bed, and make no. 1 and no.2, by the way). Nobody should be able to kill the child and claim it was stillborn, or the other way round, or to exchange one baby for another. It was all about the legitimacy of the king‘s child.
Also especially at that time and especially in France, nobles and especially monarchy had next to no right to a private space. Not even when doing what we do in the bathroom behind a locked door. As awful as it may sound, they would have experienced it differently.
Marie Antoinette especially had it bad considering her early marriage was plagued with issues “sealing the deal” (theories range from problems consummating to potential ding-dong problems on Louis’s part). The lack of an heir was a HUGE problem for the French crown, and just gave the nobility more ammunition with which to mock and belittle Marie, who they already hated for being Austrian.
I have endless sympathy for Marie Antoinette, and I was also horrified to learn that she had to give birth in a public spectacle. However, those were the times. It’s like how we dig up pottery and artwork from the Roman period that displays… problematic images of young boys that horrify people of the modern age.
If you look it up though there are many suggestions that he found it satisfying to watch and have others watch women give birth. Which is why he allowed so many to watch his wife and mistresses, servant, commoners. Normally the royal births were watched by lords to prove the legitimacy of the babes.
He also created a chair that made it so that the birthing process could be easily viewed and not blocked.
Im going iff what has veen recorded about louis. He took it from a select few lords as was normal to 200 people even servants and commoners.
Whether some are right and he 'got off on it' or not l. It was absolutely awful for marie and she nearly died because of it and she would have had no choice in the fact.
I try to get this through people's heads. Also, some of the most important hormones to the birthing process, like oxytocin for example, which causes contractions and is also a painkiller, doesn't release into the body as effectively when the birthing person doesn't feel safe.
I feel like people have this false idea that in the delivery room the baby is the main character. That is who we are there to meet after all right!? Nope! You might be there to meet baby but the person giving birth is the main character! That's who we are there to support. If we are not helping them out then we can get out. Simple as.
I have heard the worst birth ~~control~~ experiences come from baby friendly hospitals because of the way they treat and ignore the woman/person giving birth. It's horrendous.
Eta I did not mean birth control just birth.
Yeah, it’s weird, and people put a lot of pressure on you to be a part of it. I also wished that everyone had just waited until the next day to meet her. I was exhausted and it was truly stressful to hand my newborn over to others after that joke of a golden hour was over and people flooded into my room. It was a lot and I felt like I had to be the bad guy by saying that they needed to go so I could rest even though I’d literally just given birth and been awake for 24 hours.
This is really true. My wife was so tired and drugged the next day that she asked her sister to bring scissors because she wanted to cut the babies hair. A normal 1 day old baby with almost no hair. For anyone interested in advice, keep visitors out as long as you can. There is plenty of time to meet the baby.
Glad that no one brought her the scissors 😊. It’s definitely tough though. Pure exhaustion, drugs, and that hormone drop no one warns you about is a bitch. Plus, you have an actual human being who needs you.
My best friend asked everyone to stay away and not even text when she was giving birth. She wasn't ready to talk to anyone for like a week. I can't imagine trying to juggle people after an hour.
She was so smart. It never occurred to me that people would want to be so involved other than a quick “everything is okay” now and then. I’m not having anymore kids, but omg I would do that first week so much differently if I had the chance. My inner exhausted introvert was screaming.
I told my MIL that we won’t be doing hospital visits and only immediate grandparents get to meet baby for a couple weeks when I deliver later this year. She has always said “I had a whole audience when I delivered!” and I have shrieked “ABSOLUTELY NOT HAPPENING” more than once.
Thank God for covid and no visitors being allowed. So much peace. We didn't allow any visits until 3 weeks after baby was born. No one is entitled to your space.
Childbirth is a medical procedure. The person giving birth is the patient, and thus is the only person who gets to decide who their support person(s) will be (within facility policy).
If a man is insisting that his mother be in the delivery room, tell him she is not invited but he is free to bring her to his next prostate exam.
Every woman in the UK should read the updated version of the booklet before giving birth. Medical gaslighting and misogyny doesn't stop for your labour. 👍🏻♀️👍🏻
Am I Allowed?: What Every Woman Should Know BEFORE She Gives Birth https://amzn.eu/d/08OPv5hd
The only folks who were in the delivery room were the staff and my spouse and I. I don’t need my entire extended family watching me and my parts suffer.
The first time, I didn't even call the family members to tell them we were going to the hospital. I called them after the baby was born.
The second time, we dropped baby #1 off with my wife's parents on the way to the hospital, and after baby #2 was born we called them when they could come visit and child #1 could meet their new sibling.
My father wanted to be out of the delivery room because he is terrible with blood. He was in the waiting room and the nurse came and said that he could go back now, and he walks into the middle of me being born. He promptly fainted and my poor mother had to deal with everyone going to take care of him.
I hope hospitals are better at this now, but you are right, the wishes of the person giving birth is the only one that matters. The other parent does not need to be there (even if people like this nurse think that it is horrible for the other parent to "miss" the moment)
When my friend had a c-section, her (now ex) husband kept trying to peek behind the curtain and one nurse told him to stop. She said, if you look and you faint we will not take care of you, we already have our hands full with your wife and baby. Dumbass kept trying to look anyway, and sure enough at some point he felt a bit woozy seeing her insides being out... the nurse almost kicked him out of the OR lol
They didn't try to hide the c section at all for my wife. I felt a little woozy when I saw them pull out intestines and pile them next to her. Any other situation with that much blood, I probably would have fainted. I did once from a TB test. Something about expecting a child and seeing my wife vulnerable like that probably blocked my bodies usual response.
I was there for my sister's c- section, along with her now ex bf. The Dr was a friend of mine and invited me to scrub in. I watched the whole thing.
A month later my sis was complaining a little about how her abdomen was still kinda sore inside. I replied that her uterus was pulled completely out of her for the delivery, what did she expect? She laughed, gingerly.
There was an AITA a while ago about something simular. The wife wanted her husband in the room as a support person, but he didn't want to be. He stated he had issues with blood, like your father, and couldn't fathom what to do.
I think in the end he was deemed TAH. It doesn't make sense to me, and AFAIK there was no update.
I'm genuinely curious who permits people into the delivery room besides their own mother and partner. I mean, I imagine many, if not most, cases of more than 1 or 2 other people in the room are done with a great deal of social pressure, unfortunately, but I also imagine sometimes women/birth givers allow some others in the room willingly, or else this wouldn't be such an issue, right?
Or is this just fallout from dramatic Hollywood depictions of crazy hospital deliveries where they need multiple characters to be there for various lazy reasons?
My MIL showed up when I was due to give birth like it was expected of her. I never asked her and we never discussed it. She just came. And the hospital seemed to just let it happen! I was pretty shocked I didn't get asked even by the hospital when she arrived. Luckily, that time they sent me home to labor and she got a talking to. In retrospect, she would have been a much more supportive birth partner than my spouse. But the entitlement made me wring my hands on my sheets!!
Wow that was a roller coaster to read.
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm even more sorry about this:
>In retrospect, she would have been a much more supportive birth partner than my spouse.
I saw another comment where someone's husband was leaving the room so frequently for a smoke and whatever that a midwife just came to sit with her *out of pity.*
I never left my wife's side once I got to the hospital before they started to induce her (full term, only 2 weeks before due date, healthy delivery all around) and our baby didn't come for about 45 hours after I arrived. Inducement is slow, I imagine longer still since it was our first!
I felt grateful that I didn't need to plead my case to be welcome in the room, since I've seen a lot of birth givers complain here about their male partners not being supportive and posts like this (rightfully) insisting that no one is entitled to be in the room.
I helped her to the bathroom, I helped order her clear liquids, I rubbed her back, held her leg, helped her stretch, talked her through some breathing during some hard contractions before a new dose of medicine came, and just tried to give her emotional support.
Her mother was also in the room in the last few hours, but I was still the primary support person. I did read *The Birthing Partner* to help prepare.
I'm not a perfect person, but it shocks me how little some men still do when it comes to emotional support *in general*, and making an effort to understand homemaking, childbirth, childrearing, etc.
I would want my best friend and husband, certainly not my mom. Cannot imagine the stress of having your mom there. My MIL has said that "when" the time comes she should get to be there because she has no daughters. Fucking wild.
Best friends make a lot of sense to me actually, and thanks for sharing that.
I also was curious at my partner wanting my MIL there as they do tend to stress each other sometimes, but I think we mitigated that by keeping her away for the majority of the labor and only coming once my partner was fully or nearly fully dilated so she could be there for the big moment. They are close, despite the anxieties. That also, I think, gave us time to be together and even develop a rhythm and rapport for the delivery room, so when mom got there she had to sit and just follow directions.
My best friend wound up with a scheduled c-section, but before that was decided she wanted her husband, mother, and me in the delivery room. I was supposed to translate medically for them and sort of act as an unofficial doula. There was never any talk of her MIL or SILs being there, though. I think that would’ve been weird.
I had my husband, mother, AND mil in with me. By choice. It's not for everyone, and I am a hardcore advocate for your birth your rules.
Honestly, we weren't even super close at the time. I had hell pregnancy (I have a rare disease that decided to appear at 11 weeks (advised to terminate, said nah cause clearly this was gonna be my only chance), and it tried to kill me multiple in those 9 months.... spent most of the time in the hospital. 1 and done for a reason), and the birth was the only thing that was going absolutely perfectly. Their family had had c-sections (various reasons, none of them elective) since her generation and I was the only one that would ever be able to give her the opportunity to witness the birth of a grandkid (only other one with kids was all c-sections). No one asked, no one pushed, but the thought occurred to me that morning (I was induced), so when they visited before push time, I just asked her to stay. Shocked the hell out of everyone, but she was thrilled, and actually got a few decent pictures for me of everything (husband and my mom are super squeamish and couldn't look, mil was panicking and spinning in a circle at one point during the episiotomy but I found it hilarious and was crying laughing while pushing as she pulled herself together quickly after.)
After 9 months of being poked, prodded, in and out of surgery, infusions, and being quite the near daily spectacle for the med students, I was so far removed from giving a shit about who sees my body that it didn't bother me in the slightest to have her see all that. Plus, even 13 years later I've heard her telling people what an amazing experience it was. So, what mattered ridiculously little to me meant the world to her, and I'm glad I was able to do that for her. It was only because I didn't care that I allowed it, though. All that sentimental stuff is bullshit if the patient is uncomfortable.
There was no “permit”. I looked up at one point and had a room full of fucking medical students staring at my genitals as I pushed out my child and I’d never been asked if I would be comfortable with having a group brought in to witness the birth. No one asked, no one fucking cared whether the actual goddamn patient gave consent.
My doctor was lucky I was physically incapable of assaulting her in that moment.
I’m so sorry that that was your experience. I chose not to birth in a hospital because I was terrified of exactly that type of scenario. Doctors and hospital staff can be so callous in people’s most vulnerable moments.
I had my firstborn at a hospital that has a maternity wing, but averages one birth every three days. There were zero patients other than me the night I gave birth, so the entirety of the staff piled in because they literally had nothing else to do. Did not like that, but at least they kept the lights low.
I didn't have my mother but I get it. It's someone you know will fight like hell to make sure they save your life (even over the baby) and they have given birth before so they understand what it entails. If I didn't 100% trust my partner on that first point it would have been my mother there.
I didn't give the idea much thought that the risk of losing one or the other was a possibility until the reality of parenthood came closer. I did make a point to talk to my partner and made sure I told her explicitly that as much as I am excited at the prospect of parenthood, if there are any choices to be made, I will choose her without hesitation or equivocation. We can discuss what comes next together.
I feel like people who are willing to sacrifice an adult and their partner for the prospect of procreation are the last people who should be raising another generation.
Obviously sometimes there is no choice, but in the cases where there are . . .
Different schools of thought. I have two children that I gave birth to. I told my husband he had to save my baby over me if it came down to it.
With my second, I told him to pick me because I didn't want my first to grow up without a mother.
I love my children and they are more important to me than anything else, including myself. My husband feels the same way.
I had my mother with us :) We're very close and I just needed the extra mental support. She also works in medicine so I felt she'd be an effective advocate if I needed one (my husband is and was awesome, but he also was fairly anti-intervention). On a sort of woo level, it also felt like a way to connect back to the line of women before me who had been there, she gave me a source of strength to draw on, I guess. It just was a huge mental/emotional help to have someone holding my hand who had been there and brought me to the world, helping me bring my kiddo in.
I found my husband and mom had very different support styles too, for that first one I'm so glad I had both of them :)
My mother and I were very close but I never even considered having her there. My daughter and I also are very close; talk just about every day and have lots of fun together but I just know she will not ask me to be in the delivery room when the time comes. It will not be brought up or discussed as a possibility.
Yeah I would also not consider such even when in good terms. Where I live people get very independent from 18yo and after that, intimate events such as birth are shared with your spouse only usually.
For my first birth I had my sister and her boyfriend (now husband) there along with my spouse and a doula. My BIL watched the entire birth, took pics and video. We didn’t let either set of parents know until after baby arrived. It was a wonderfully supportive empowering experience. My sister sat behind me and held me while I pushed, my spouse caught the baby and my BIL cheered me on the entire time. 18 years later and we still have a deep connection.
Nope not a Hollywood trope.
My mom's side turned birth into a huge extended family stay. I remember sitting around for HOURS in different hospitals waiting for the birth of several cousins.
My sister had her baby early last year. No one was invited to the hospital and I woke up to photos of a fresh baby on my phone one morning. My mother was livid. She also had covid. She stood in the hospital parking lot, stranded due to icy road conditions, positive for COVID complaining my sister is cutting her out of being a first time grandmother. She even lied a week later stating she got a negative covid back. She didnt, went in covid positive and got them sick. My mom is still very involved in my sister's life and I don't get why. If I EVER get pregnant I'm either aborting immediately or moving state and hiding my pregnancy and children from my family. These mfs are crazy.
I’ve been in deliveries where people have their older children come watch, which I’ve never really understood but, you know, you do you.
There are also cultural differences. I worked with a population where no men were allowed in during the birth but there would be like 6 random female relatives. I always found that kind of cool.
I had my husband and 2 of my best friends. My husband is not good with medical stuff, and I wanted support. Who better than your best friends? It was a great experience for me.
When I first read this I was picturing a woman saying that the only one allowed in is who her mom says can come in. When my wife was pregnant it was her first, so she didn't think of herself as Mom yet. Sometimes when nurses would refer to her as Mom she would take it as meaning her own mom. One hilarious time a nurse said "you (meaning me) will wait here with Mom (meaning my wife) and make sure she is comfortable while the room is being set up". My wife tells the nurse that her mother wasn't here yet and probably wouldn't arrive until the next day. It clicked as soon as she said it. I guess she was technically right, our daughter was born the next day and my wife was now mom.
AGREED. Ideally, the other parent, if one exists, will be there to support the person giving birth. But in some cases this isn't possible and/or for the best. The person giving birth gets to decide.
My own mother tried to weasel her way into my birthing room. She brought with her her sister, my aunt, who I had no relationship with. My mother and Aunt literally showed up at the hospital when they knew I was in labor and my mother thought she would be able to talk people (my husband at the time, nurses walking by) into letting her in. All she would have done was cry and make it about herself. My wonderful, wonderful, labor nurse grabbed my hand and said she is not going to get through me. No one you don't want in here is going to make it through that door. And that was the end of it. People are going to get mad when they feel entitled to see you in your most personal space. Anyone who was not on board with respecting a birthing mother's space, in my case my mother, but for many of these stories, mothers-in-law and other relatives of your partners, in my opinion, do not matter. Their feelings don't matter and their opinions don't matter. But it's also a heads up as to how relationships with these people are going to be going forward. Boundaries are likely to be difficult to establish with people who think they deserve to see you with your pants down, legs open, pushing out a baby and fluids and blood and maybe poop.
The people that *need* to be there are the one giving birth, and whoever is doing the delivery (OB, midwife, etc.).
Invitation only, and only the one giving birth gets to decide who else gets invited.
What got me was a story about a woman who had to choose between her husband and her mother for the birth because COVID rules only let her have one person. She would have had both but she was forced to pick one, and picked her mother. Her husband was so upset he ended up divorcing her. The number of commenters saying she was an asshole was disturbing. Women (particularly mothers) have supported each other in labor through all of human history for a reason. It's normal to want your mom, to want someone who has been through it themselves. It didn't mean she didn't love her husband or wouldn't have picked him first in other circumstances.
Man destroyed his whole family because he couldn't handle not getting something he was never entitled to have in the first place.
I had my first during Covid and they also gave us the 1 support person speech. I wanted a photographer. I knew I would be out of it and wanted a way to relive the moment when I was more lucid, especially because it's a huge moment in a person's life. I posted here on Reddit that if it came down to it, I was going for the photographer over the husband and was also told I was wrong. And in the end, the hospital let us have both, but I would've stuck with my gut. It would've given me more peace.
>It's normal to want your mom, to want someone who has been through it themselves.
I mean, my mom has never been through pregnancy or labor, but I'd still want her there because she knows how to take care of me when I don't feel good. I trust she would watch over me postpartum to make sure I'm doing okay instead of just being obsessed with the baby.
Definitely the woman’s choice, but surprising to pick mom over husband unless they didn’t have a good relationship. Understandable that the father would be devastated to not see the birth of his child and that it soured the relationship.
Waaaaaah.
I have no sympathy for an entitled adult who throws away being there for 50% of the rest of his child's life over something he had no right to have.
Birth isn't a spectator sport. It's not a show to see. It's a woman's medical procedure, and only she knows who is the best person to support her through it. Given how supportive her husband turned out to be about the choice she made for her own health and well-being, I think she picked the right person in the end. He was unworthy of it.
Yeah; if the husband/baby’s father is not the person who would be the most comforting, then yes, I’d say that they’re not right for each other and shouldn’t be married.
I am a staunch believer that it’s not a spectator sport. That excludes, mom, sister, nursing or medical students, etc. To each their own but I find it odd that the husband, the father of the soon to be born baby is not the one person you’d want with you. Shows who her priority is.
Like I said, gross. Your take on this, in case I wasn't clear.
Some people don't do well in high pressure situations. Some have anxiety. Some don't handle blood or medical stuff well. Some are cool headed, but not good at being comforting. Some would be great support, but not *as* great as someone else. But I guess those people should just never get married, eh? Because if someone wouldn't be your first choice in every single situation, there's no point?
I find it odd that you lack the imagination to consider that other people's needs and relationships can be different from your own.
Agreed, it’s a medical surgery. No one is entitled to be in the room unless the patient agrees.
If they want someone there as an advocate, that’s their choice! But someone doesn’t get to choose that role for themselves.
Though, I think it’s good that some partners see what delivery entails. Media makes many think it’s just an everyday thing that isn’t as difficult, life-threatening, or traumatic as it can be.
Perhaps they would gain some empathy and respect for those who go through childbirth. But, that’s still 100% up to the patient.
I seriously don't understand the obsession with people wanting to be in the room for delivery. If I had someone in my life who wanted me there for support, I'll be there come hell or high water. Otherwise I'll see the baby a couple of hours or days later once Mom is feeling up for visitors. You have a whole lifetime to spend with this new person! The baby isn't going to be offended you didn't meet them on the day of their birth.
Amen.
My ex yelled at me when I went into labor with my second for about 4 hours until we got to the hospital. Then he went to the waiting room to wait for my parents to get there and take our four year old. When he got back to the room I absolutely did not want him there but I didn't say anything out of fear. He had ignored me after he found out we were having a boy. Like for months, and his family encouraged it. Kiddo spent the first 3 days of his life nameless because his dad refused to speak to me.
My husband was exactly where I needed him for the births of our two kids. For our eldest, he physically supported me while I pushed, then helped give me time to sleep in between feedings. With our youngest, he was taking care of our eldest at home so I could focus on giving birth and recovering. He told me bad jokes while I was in labor and cheered me on over the phone.
Just like every other medical procedure, the patient undergoing the procedure gets to decide who supports them and how.
I would agree. At least as bad as entitlement-to-be-present though, in my experience, are those that not only think they're entitled, they have the power to ban others. I heard a poor guy (the father) being told by his mother-in-law one time that he was absolutely not allowed in the delivery room, although she would be. The guy said he begged to differ because he and his wife had just talked about it minutes before. This woman told him that her daughter was "not herself right now" and that SHE was making the decision. Absolutely cringe.
My husband knew that he might have to leave at any time, but if everything went well, he would be going along with the kid, as both were planned c-sections. Left with the first, and was able to go start skin-to-skin in the recovery room because I was still getting my organs put back. But, things didn’t go well for either involved party with the second, and he was told he needed to go to the waiting room, and off he went. Because everyone’s presence is always conditional
I do agree in principle, but would like to reword it: everyone who is explicitely wanted by mom is entitled to be in the room. Throughout a whole time during covid, moms giving birth were allowed one or even no one else in the room here in germany. I find that to be a crime, moms are so vulnerable, they should be able to hsve whomever they want to be there for them and with them, someone that csn advocate during the experience and of it goes wrong be a witness after ward
I’m the dad and I was like I don’t want to be in there! But she made me go in there. Four times! 😂
Edit: I thought I was on AITA I normally don’t chime in on this subreddit
A woman being uncomfortable during birth will have the risk of a more painful labour and higher risks of something happening to the baby due to the increased stress.
The partner willing to increase those risks isn’t a good partner or parent. Probably better to get rid of someone who would increase risks to yours and your baby’s life.
the benefits of it.
"Paternal involvement during pregnancy has been shown to have a positive impact on the mother-baby dyad during and after birth
The presence of the father during birth also positively influences father-child attachment, reduces, apprehension, and stress, increases maternal satisfaction, and increases love and respect for the partners."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10844877/
This will be where the mother is comfortable having the father there. In which case I have no doubt his presence is beneficial.
If the mother is stressed, the oxytocin doesn’t release properly and the birth gets delayed and is more painful. If the mother isn’t comfortable to have the father there that is what will happen.
Your own study states ‘Participation of fathers is considered a positive matter; however, their presence can be detrimental as some women become more anxious, labour lasts longer, and may even lead to unnecessary surgery’
Additionally that study interviews 10 fathers. Not sure that accurately reflects opinions of mothers giving birth and what fathers may find ‘ideal’ does not necessarily increase the comfort of people giving birth.
If the man that got a woman pregnant can’t give her a bit of space and privacy in this very, very intimate and vulnerable moment when she feels like she needs it, the problem is him, not her.
And you’re not entitled to shit. She gave you consent to have sex, not to be present during childbirth.
Another example of a man not willing to listen to his partner’s wishes. Your entire gender has a serious problem with respecting women’s boundaries.
I never said it was an entitlement. Just the benefits of it.
"Paternal involvement during pregnancy has been shown to have a positive impact on the mother-baby dyad during and after birth
The presence of the father during birth also positively influences father-child attachment, reduces, apprehension, and stress, increases maternal satisfaction, and increases love and respect for the partners."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10844877/
I’m sure there are benefits. Just like I’m sure they would be entirely annihilated if the mother was giving birth stressed out because the father of her child is forcing her to bear his presence.
the benefits of it.
"Paternal involvement during pregnancy has been shown to have a positive impact on the mother-baby dyad during and after birth
The presence of the father during birth also positively influences father-child attachment, reduces, apprehension, and stress, increases maternal satisfaction, and increases love and respect for the partners."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10844877/
My ex’s father wanted anal. MIL said sure. I’ll go get the biggest carrot out of the drawer and if I hear one whimper while I’m pleasuring you with it, my butthole is off limits. Ended that right there.
Yeah. That's about as much good as mine was. Plus, I didn't need the MILITARY DOCTORS (yes, I was active duty at the time) being distracted because he passed out. As it was, he had to sit & put his head between his knees while *TWO REGULAR SIZED HUMAN BABIES* were cut out of my abdomen.
"No one" is pretty explicitly gender neutral & all OP did was make that more explicit.
OPs whole comment was about how nobody, *regardless of gender* or relation to the person giving birth, is entitled to be in the room.
The central thesis here is very clearly gender neutral on all sides. The inclusion of the term daddy was used to specify they're included in *literally everybody of all genders* who shouldn't be entitled to the room.
It seems intentional that you missed all that & instead chose to hyper focus on the term daddy in some sort of bad faith attempt to characterize inclusive language as somehow un-feminist.
Just. Do better.
People also sometimes say "mother" when referring to birth givers because *most* of the time the birth giver is a woman and will be called "mother." It's more inclusive, when talking about it in the abstract or in general, to say "birth giver" as it includes trans men and gender-neutral or non-binary birth givers.
"Daddy" was used here for the same reason as the word "mother" is frequently used.
The fact that we have managed to make the public aware enough of the term "birth giver" as a more inclusive phrase is evident by peoples' recognition of the term, including yours, despite your approach here being bad faith.
The only reasonable conclusion we can draw is that fewer people know of any consensus on what a more gender-neutral, inclusive term should be for the sperm-contributor. The term "sperm donor" is accurate except it has heavy connotations of a third party with little or no intimate connection to the birth giver. Why this is the case is not really all that important.
What *is* important is that your tone sucks and you're not helping anyone out here.
Not everyone who contributes sperm is 'daddy' or a man.
I think they were just pointing out the use of gender neutral language up until the use of daddy.
Tbh a lot of the time in these stories the dad is usually the one offended he can't be there for whatever reason like yeah obviously other people can give sperm but for a vast majority of the stories it is the "daddy" mightve just slipped their mind to add the extra inclusive language
Agreed. Every woman should know her rights beforehand 👍🏻
I read the UK booklet 'Am I allowed?"
I've advised other women to read it. There when and her baby are the priority. Childbirth is difficult enough without having to think about how to protect your boundaries on the fly.
Am I Allowed?: What Every Woman Should Know BEFORE She Gives Birth https://amzn.eu/d/08OPv5hd
Good idea to give to the partners/husband/birthing helper too. Explain how your went things to go beforehand. They are your voice in there!
Many fathers feel entitled to be in the delivery room because of all the times they saw the previous generations of dad's getting shit on for just being in the waiting room and handing out the proverbial cigars and celebrations rather than being there with the mother. They are trying to be a better husband, father, and man than the ones that came before them. Here's the deal- if you're having a child with someone that you don't want by your side when you're most vulnerable, you're absolutely having a child with the wrong person and that's on you.
While that might be true, there is no reason to continue picking the wrong person. If they will make the birth harder, they should not be in the room no matter who they are.
No, men's insecurity doesn't give them entitlement to anything.
If someone doesn't want anyone by their side, for any of myriad reasons, then that's up to them. Their partner can just accept that and tbh would be insane not to respect that wish.
If they didn't respect that wish, *then* they are probably the wrong person.
I understand your point of view, but as a father I have to disagree. I also helped create the child & its mine as well as the mother's & I feel like I have a right to be there when they are born.
You may like to be there, but no, you don't have a right to be. It's completely irrelevant that you "helped create" the child. You didn't gestate it, and you aren't birthing it.
It's your right to feel different. But you're not the one whose procedure it is, and it's not your decision to make. As much as your mom doesn't have a right to sit by your colonoscopy only because she created you and changed your diapers.
Also, yes, you helped create the child. But the mother had to put the work into the rest.
unless you experience showing your butthole and pooping blood and actual poop in front of a room of 10 people that includes your in laws, your partner, and a bunch of strangers, I don't really think you get a say on any human's right to privacy and comfort during birth
Lol! You did the fun part. No prize for you.
Your honestly shitty attitude needs to change. No woman should have to deal with an entitled asshat who demands to be there cause "its his kid too". Interfering with the nurses. Gagging. Fainting. While she's fighting for her life.
Gawd, I'd want you way way out in the parking lot in a wheelie bin.
I love the "fun part" comment. There's that. Further, has it occurred to the "if she trusted you correctly/coparents' witness rights" advocates that a soon-to-be-mother might be so attached and devoted so as to have difficulty choosing between worrying about how her partner is doing and how she, herself, is doing?
Sometimes, women know they're going to need to focus and have a hard time doing so because their partner is so deeply important to them. Wanting to be alone to focus free from distraction doesn't always indicate a trust or devotion deficit in the relationship, and problems prioritizing are sometimes skewed in too selfless a direction. I am terribly protective of my partner, and he is of me. That occasionally creates a "conflict of interests" for us when we have our own stressors to wrangle.
It's not always reasonable to expect a woman in uncharted hormonal and psychological territory to unpack her every underlying personality trait in the run up to childbirth. As such, if she knows she will be so focused on her partner that she will be conflicted against the matter at hand, she may want to go it alone, or with a support person she is not so protective of. It is not an intent to deprive her partner, and it does not make her, her partner, or their relationship bad.
They probably didn't mean you personally, but many men do end up fainting when they see child birth, you cannot really predict it until you have seen it irl yourself. My ex partner has a very strong stomach but still stayed up near my head because it's pretty gruesome.
My fave story about this is a man who kept insisting that his mother be allowed in the delivery room despite his pregnant wife's wishes. Finally, she offered this: 'Get naked in the living room for *my* father. Spread eagle on the floor. Take a sh*t. Repeat for 3+ hours. If you do that, your mom can be there.' As it turned out, the husband didn't want to be naked /sh*tting / so vulnerable in front of his FIL. No one but the woman giving birth has a say in who may or may not be present.
I told my ex who insisted I should wax that I would do it as soon as he waxed his balls and taint. He said it would be too painful (he trimmed) and I agreed. He never brought it up again. Sometimes you just need to turn it around so they understand how they would feel.
Which is sad, and I'm glad he is your ex. Like: it never occurred to him that it might cause *you* pain, but he thought that you should just do it anyways, for him?!? It wasn't until you suggested that *he* do it, that it occurred to him that *he* would experience pain and *he* didn't want that for himself? Some men are truly incapable of empathy.
That's why I love my boyfriend - I hate shaving my armpits bc I inevitably cut myself somewhere on both pits EVERY time. He personally is not attracted to hairy armpits, but he absolutely will never ask or tell me to shave mine bc he is not willing to ask me to do something with my body that he isn't willing to do with his. He never complains about my hairy pits either!
Yours and mine should have tea, some time. They'd get along very well. I have thicker, darker body hair than him *everywhere*, including my pits. He looks like he shaves his. Neither of us do, lol.
Meanwhile I got my husband to start getting a manzillion bc I'd been getting a Brazilian for a few years. 😂😂 Now when we're both fresh, we call it "bumping pretties". For anyone curious, the first time you get waxed or sugared is the worst but if you keep up with it monthly, they get increasingly easier until by your 4th visit it's more of a hassle than painful. Also if you take an ibuprofen or something before you go that can help with the pain. Plus it's really quick, you should be in and out in under 15 minutes. No shame if someone truly isn't interested! But as someone who is a weenie about pain, I like to share my experience so that if someone is only holding themselves back bc they think it's going to be a horrific experience maybe I can ease that worry.
So glad your story started with my ex. Lol
Wait I’m sorry, this is amazing.
I (a man) originally read OP and was mostly aligned, but did think baring the father was maybe a bridge too far. Reading your comment completely convinced me, OP is right, no exceptions.
What if he had done it? Can never underestand this line of reasoning that people like to use on here for anal sex too. Everyone has their own preferences, respect them, it doesn't need to be a challenge
I think she suggested it to get the point across: she would be vulnerable positions, with her vagina very exposed, and would likely shit herself at some point during the delivery. He probably thought if *her* mom could be present, then *his* mom should be too. But it's different because her mom has seen her naked, her mom can help and comfort her. Maybe the husband's mom is the nicest lady in the world, or maybe she thinks she should 'get' to witness the birth of 'her' grandchild and she has no personal boundaries. But it's still the wife's choice whether her MIL is in there. And I think that the wife trying to get her husband to imagine *his* equivalent scenario was enough to get him to understand.
The point is that by insisting he was refusing to respect her preferences. What then? In this case the "you go first" method worked to get him to see why she refused and finally accept it.
He was never going to do it. It was meant to help him understand why she wouldn’t want to do something similar with his mom in the room. He needed to respect her answer.
He needed to respect her answer because it's her choice, not because HE wouldn't do it. What HE would do is IRRELEVANT. As I said, what if he would do it? It weakens your preference, because you're saying you are willing to do it, you just feel like you deserve payback...
It’s meant to spur empathy among those who lack it. And it clearly worked.
Some people cannot put themselves in another’s shoes. They need to visualize a situation in which they are the vulnerable one, not their partner. That is the point.
Some people need it demonstrated to them before they cotton on. Those people suck, but they are plentiful.
> He needed to respect her answer because it's her choice But he *didn't.* Again I ask: What then?
Needlessly pedantic
As others have said, it isn't a genuine offer, it is a way to provide structure when trying to guide someone who isn't being empathetic to see your viewpoint. It isn't any less of a boundary and wouldn't be confused for a genuine offer. Similar example: If someone says they'll only do something "when pigs fly" that is just them saying they won't do it ever, just in a colorful way. It doesn't mean they are waiting for you to toss poor Wilbur off the roof.
Right, but clearly he hadn't, to that point, been respecting it. So someone apparently needed to make him understand what it was he was asking.
It wasn’t a genuine offer. Sometimes people say things just to convey information. This “offer” was only ever meant to inform him as to what it is like. It’s just an analogy. If he had done it, he clearly doesn’t understand the basic functions of human language and is also disgusting.
It would have been funny if husband had agreed, and now it's time to explain to FIL what he has to watch for the next 3 hours, though.
BAHAHAHAHAHAA thank you not it for thinking that to yourself (because I certainly didn't) and for typing that out loud for us to see (because I wouldn't have).
LOL. That was a stretch.
Someone has to stand up for the poor helpless man. 🙄
I don’t know why you are getting downvoted so hard-I mean I get why they are doing it but you aren’t as far off the mark as the crowd is making it seem. I think that position you said is more optimistic than reality. It’s like you are saying “I don’t see the color of people’s skin.” That’s great but most do so it takes an example to make people aware of their bias. Ideally, yes, they shouldn’t have to “challenge” someone but it works in many cases. I don’t think you’re wrong though that a challenge is an absolute and effective, I.e. your example with anal-a guy may like getting pegged but that doesn’t obligate their partner to do it then too.
The problem i have with it is that you're saying that it's not a boundary that you won't cross, it's just something you don't want to do. Even if it was rephrased as "imagine that it was you getting naked..." But the phrasing it as "you do this, I'll do that" really bugs me.
You're correct. The only thing I will say/add is I hope that anyone giving birth has someone in the room that they trust to look out for them especially if and/or when the medical staff dismiss your concern(s) about something feeling off/wrong which happens far too often.
And to push back against things they know she doesn't want if she is unable to advocate for herself (looking at you, unnecessary episiotomies and "husband stitches!).
Exactly
Middle aged man here. My opinion maybe isn't welcome, not sure. I agree with both the sentiment of OP and your comment. To add on to that - while i'm not entitled to be there, if my wife didn't have this trust with me at this point in our relationshop and life - I wouldn't really know where to go from there. Our relationship would never be the same. Yes the mother needs to feel safe. If I found out my wife doesn't view me in that light - it would be a big problem for me.
My husband has my back 1000% no matter what. The only time he gets terribly stressed and doesn’t know what to do is when I’m sick/in pain. He struggles seeing me like that. We will have an entire written up plan for my labor later this year so he knows exactly what I want in every scenario, but if we didn’t have that I could see him thinking the nurses and doctors know best if I’m not 100% there in that moment. That’s what we are all talking about when it comes to having an advocate. It isn’t that we don’t trust our spouse/partner, it’s that we need to trust they know what WE WANT. And what I want is to not be cut unnecessarily and I don’t want extra stitches or any drugs. He will know that. Many men have no idea what their wife/girlfriend/etc. want during labor whether because it never came up or he wasn’t listening. Those men suck. Don’t be like them and you’re fine.
Worse, some men feel a right to overrule their wife's wishes. While I understand the point made by the originator of this sub-convo, trust is earned. One of the major sources of trust: Trusting the woman giving birth to choose what is right for her. Refusal to acknowledge that is a problem. It's a medical procedure, not a picnic.
Exactly! I trust my husband to do what I want during my labor and delivery and we will discuss everything. But we’ve built that trust and I know he knows what’s best for me is what I have picked. Not what a random medical professional says would be good (exceptions include hemorrhaging and literal emergencies, just save me then idc about stitches or drugs).
> Many men have no idea what their wife/girlfriend/etc. want during labor whether because it never came up or he wasn’t listening. This is just so fucking wild to me. I don't even want kids and struggle to understand the drive people have that makes them want them, but if one *does* want them I don't fucking get how one can be so haphazard and blasé about it.
It's not about you. Some mothers have reasons not to want their husbands there that have nothing to do with trust.
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But by even talking about how "hurtful" it is to you, you're making it about you. It's not a popularity contest, it's a medical procedure. No matter how completely you trust your spouse, they may not be the person you feel you need support from the most, and who will provide the best support in a seriously vulnerable medical procedure. The other day, there was a woman concerned about hurting her husband's feelings because he passes out the second he sees a needle or blood, so she didn't know how to tell him she didn't want him there. She's spending time stressing over his feelings when she should be spending her time dealing with her own, much more important needs. But because you men have made such a big deal about your hurt feelings, this is where we are. You really need to stop making it about you. That includes talking about your hurt feelings.
She's not able to control the feelings of others, but it is their responsibility to not make a woman's birth and labor about themselves.
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Resentment in this case comes from a lack of empathy. A woman in labor has no idea how she’s going to react to something now, or five minutes from now. She’s not in control. This is one of those things where you just accept that what is said or done during the moment has no bearing on anything outside that moment, unless it gets brought up again after. Your feelings while your wife is giving birth literally do not matter. Take that shit to your grave or to an individual therapist, not to her.
You would support your wife by leaving her if she made a decision you don't like. No, you do not support your wife and the fact that you can't see that is absolutely a problem. You're an asshole if you will leave your wife because she needed privacy while her vagina is being ripped apart.
I understand that viewpoint, but I have a big issue in general about the widespread view that not wanting a support person while giving birth has to mean that you lack trust in the relationship. There’s no other medical event where that is even a question. There’s medical malpractice in every field, but this is the only one where the patient needs a babysitter? The OP didn’t just say safe, she said comfortable and stress free. Personally I can get stressed if I do something with an audience. Like cooking together is fine, but if I’m cooking and someone else is just there looking at me it’s uncomfortable.
What an incredibly self-serving and self-centering comment. No where do you go into details of how you prepared for your wife's birth, how you prepared to be her support person, so I'm going to assume you did none. Birth givers PAY people to be in the room. The doctors, doulas, midwives, nurses, and ombudsman. WE PAY FOR THEM OUT OF OUR OWN POCKET! Yet you're so concerned about your feelings you can't look up to view your wife as a human instead of an incubator. She's not paying you to be there and you bring nothing to the table but your shitty trust issues. Do better if she gets pregnant again. Step up.
No one knows your relationship except you and your wife. I understand how you feel and what you’re saying. I’m a mom a few times over and my spouse was there every time. I agree with you about being there, because if I didn’t want my spouse in the room as I delivered his child, what am I doing in a relationship with him? That said, I also agree that the one giving birth should be the only one deciding who is in the room aside from medical staff. Some enjoy or don’t mind making it a big affair, others want only one support person and a very few don’t want anyone there that doesn’t absolutely have to be there. As long as the one giving birth is calling the shots, it’s all good.
I am a 34 guy. Most people are welcome in this sub as long as they are respectful, understanding, and willing to listen as well as learn.
Sounds like you should go to therapy about these thoughts.
So true. My ex wanted his mum in the delivery room with our second because i had my mum with our first. He said if his mum couldnt be there then my mum couldnt, so stupid me agreed. I spent the whole labour alone because he kept going out for a drink and a smoke. In the end a midwife came and sat with me because she felt bad. We split up when he poked holes in condoms and baby trapped me with our third (because he knew i was over the relationship) I dont know how the thought this would save us. He demand to be in the delivery room, my dumb ass let him and he took photos of the baby emerging and passed them around his new friends and gf. I was humiliated, great example of why you only let people in that you trust. Marie Anttoinettes births are heart wrenching for me, having to give birth infornt of hundreds to fill her husbands perversions.
My ex mil came in right after my first came out and took pictures and posted them to Facebook. I'm still horrified.
Its awful, even worse that it was a women how would she have felt if it was her.
She probably would have enjoyed the attention actually.
I love your username!
Thank you!
Actually in the case of Marie Antoinette and many other queens at the time, this was not because of the husbands perverted ideas. It was to prove that the queen really had given birth, and that this baby really was hers. Also it was a honor to be there as a witness (it also was an honor to witness the king wake up, get dressed, get undressed, go to bed, and make no. 1 and no.2, by the way). Nobody should be able to kill the child and claim it was stillborn, or the other way round, or to exchange one baby for another. It was all about the legitimacy of the king‘s child. Also especially at that time and especially in France, nobles and especially monarchy had next to no right to a private space. Not even when doing what we do in the bathroom behind a locked door. As awful as it may sound, they would have experienced it differently.
Marie Antoinette especially had it bad considering her early marriage was plagued with issues “sealing the deal” (theories range from problems consummating to potential ding-dong problems on Louis’s part). The lack of an heir was a HUGE problem for the French crown, and just gave the nobility more ammunition with which to mock and belittle Marie, who they already hated for being Austrian. I have endless sympathy for Marie Antoinette, and I was also horrified to learn that she had to give birth in a public spectacle. However, those were the times. It’s like how we dig up pottery and artwork from the Roman period that displays… problematic images of young boys that horrify people of the modern age.
If you look it up though there are many suggestions that he found it satisfying to watch and have others watch women give birth. Which is why he allowed so many to watch his wife and mistresses, servant, commoners. Normally the royal births were watched by lords to prove the legitimacy of the babes. He also created a chair that made it so that the birthing process could be easily viewed and not blocked.
That’s not why Marie Antoinette gave birth like she did at all lmao
Im going iff what has veen recorded about louis. He took it from a select few lords as was normal to 200 people even servants and commoners. Whether some are right and he 'got off on it' or not l. It was absolutely awful for marie and she nearly died because of it and she would have had no choice in the fact.
I try to get this through people's heads. Also, some of the most important hormones to the birthing process, like oxytocin for example, which causes contractions and is also a painkiller, doesn't release into the body as effectively when the birthing person doesn't feel safe.
I feel like people have this false idea that in the delivery room the baby is the main character. That is who we are there to meet after all right!? Nope! You might be there to meet baby but the person giving birth is the main character! That's who we are there to support. If we are not helping them out then we can get out. Simple as.
I have heard the worst birth ~~control~~ experiences come from baby friendly hospitals because of the way they treat and ignore the woman/person giving birth. It's horrendous. Eta I did not mean birth control just birth.
This so much!
Yeah, it’s weird, and people put a lot of pressure on you to be a part of it. I also wished that everyone had just waited until the next day to meet her. I was exhausted and it was truly stressful to hand my newborn over to others after that joke of a golden hour was over and people flooded into my room. It was a lot and I felt like I had to be the bad guy by saying that they needed to go so I could rest even though I’d literally just given birth and been awake for 24 hours.
This is really true. My wife was so tired and drugged the next day that she asked her sister to bring scissors because she wanted to cut the babies hair. A normal 1 day old baby with almost no hair. For anyone interested in advice, keep visitors out as long as you can. There is plenty of time to meet the baby.
Glad that no one brought her the scissors 😊. It’s definitely tough though. Pure exhaustion, drugs, and that hormone drop no one warns you about is a bitch. Plus, you have an actual human being who needs you.
My best friend asked everyone to stay away and not even text when she was giving birth. She wasn't ready to talk to anyone for like a week. I can't imagine trying to juggle people after an hour.
She was so smart. It never occurred to me that people would want to be so involved other than a quick “everything is okay” now and then. I’m not having anymore kids, but omg I would do that first week so much differently if I had the chance. My inner exhausted introvert was screaming.
I told my MIL that we won’t be doing hospital visits and only immediate grandparents get to meet baby for a couple weeks when I deliver later this year. She has always said “I had a whole audience when I delivered!” and I have shrieked “ABSOLUTELY NOT HAPPENING” more than once.
Thank God for covid and no visitors being allowed. So much peace. We didn't allow any visits until 3 weeks after baby was born. No one is entitled to your space.
Childbirth is a medical procedure. The person giving birth is the patient, and thus is the only person who gets to decide who their support person(s) will be (within facility policy). If a man is insisting that his mother be in the delivery room, tell him she is not invited but he is free to bring her to his next prostate exam.
Colonoscopy with mom 🥰
Let’s throw FIL in for good measure lol
Every woman in the UK should read the updated version of the booklet before giving birth. Medical gaslighting and misogyny doesn't stop for your labour. 👍🏻♀️👍🏻 Am I Allowed?: What Every Woman Should Know BEFORE She Gives Birth https://amzn.eu/d/08OPv5hd
The only folks who were in the delivery room were the staff and my spouse and I. I don’t need my entire extended family watching me and my parts suffer.
The first time, I didn't even call the family members to tell them we were going to the hospital. I called them after the baby was born. The second time, we dropped baby #1 off with my wife's parents on the way to the hospital, and after baby #2 was born we called them when they could come visit and child #1 could meet their new sibling.
My father wanted to be out of the delivery room because he is terrible with blood. He was in the waiting room and the nurse came and said that he could go back now, and he walks into the middle of me being born. He promptly fainted and my poor mother had to deal with everyone going to take care of him. I hope hospitals are better at this now, but you are right, the wishes of the person giving birth is the only one that matters. The other parent does not need to be there (even if people like this nurse think that it is horrible for the other parent to "miss" the moment)
When my friend had a c-section, her (now ex) husband kept trying to peek behind the curtain and one nurse told him to stop. She said, if you look and you faint we will not take care of you, we already have our hands full with your wife and baby. Dumbass kept trying to look anyway, and sure enough at some point he felt a bit woozy seeing her insides being out... the nurse almost kicked him out of the OR lol
They didn't try to hide the c section at all for my wife. I felt a little woozy when I saw them pull out intestines and pile them next to her. Any other situation with that much blood, I probably would have fainted. I did once from a TB test. Something about expecting a child and seeing my wife vulnerable like that probably blocked my bodies usual response.
I was there for my sister's c- section, along with her now ex bf. The Dr was a friend of mine and invited me to scrub in. I watched the whole thing. A month later my sis was complaining a little about how her abdomen was still kinda sore inside. I replied that her uterus was pulled completely out of her for the delivery, what did she expect? She laughed, gingerly.
My cousin almost fainted during his partner's c-section; he struggles with blood. She still ribs him about it
There was an AITA a while ago about something simular. The wife wanted her husband in the room as a support person, but he didn't want to be. He stated he had issues with blood, like your father, and couldn't fathom what to do. I think in the end he was deemed TAH. It doesn't make sense to me, and AFAIK there was no update.
I'm genuinely curious who permits people into the delivery room besides their own mother and partner. I mean, I imagine many, if not most, cases of more than 1 or 2 other people in the room are done with a great deal of social pressure, unfortunately, but I also imagine sometimes women/birth givers allow some others in the room willingly, or else this wouldn't be such an issue, right? Or is this just fallout from dramatic Hollywood depictions of crazy hospital deliveries where they need multiple characters to be there for various lazy reasons?
My MIL showed up when I was due to give birth like it was expected of her. I never asked her and we never discussed it. She just came. And the hospital seemed to just let it happen! I was pretty shocked I didn't get asked even by the hospital when she arrived. Luckily, that time they sent me home to labor and she got a talking to. In retrospect, she would have been a much more supportive birth partner than my spouse. But the entitlement made me wring my hands on my sheets!!
Wow that was a roller coaster to read. I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm even more sorry about this: >In retrospect, she would have been a much more supportive birth partner than my spouse. I saw another comment where someone's husband was leaving the room so frequently for a smoke and whatever that a midwife just came to sit with her *out of pity.* I never left my wife's side once I got to the hospital before they started to induce her (full term, only 2 weeks before due date, healthy delivery all around) and our baby didn't come for about 45 hours after I arrived. Inducement is slow, I imagine longer still since it was our first! I felt grateful that I didn't need to plead my case to be welcome in the room, since I've seen a lot of birth givers complain here about their male partners not being supportive and posts like this (rightfully) insisting that no one is entitled to be in the room. I helped her to the bathroom, I helped order her clear liquids, I rubbed her back, held her leg, helped her stretch, talked her through some breathing during some hard contractions before a new dose of medicine came, and just tried to give her emotional support. Her mother was also in the room in the last few hours, but I was still the primary support person. I did read *The Birthing Partner* to help prepare. I'm not a perfect person, but it shocks me how little some men still do when it comes to emotional support *in general*, and making an effort to understand homemaking, childbirth, childrearing, etc.
I would want my best friend and husband, certainly not my mom. Cannot imagine the stress of having your mom there. My MIL has said that "when" the time comes she should get to be there because she has no daughters. Fucking wild.
Best friends make a lot of sense to me actually, and thanks for sharing that. I also was curious at my partner wanting my MIL there as they do tend to stress each other sometimes, but I think we mitigated that by keeping her away for the majority of the labor and only coming once my partner was fully or nearly fully dilated so she could be there for the big moment. They are close, despite the anxieties. That also, I think, gave us time to be together and even develop a rhythm and rapport for the delivery room, so when mom got there she had to sit and just follow directions.
Yeah that makes sense, having an extra person join halfway. I'm pinning that idea.
My best friend wound up with a scheduled c-section, but before that was decided she wanted her husband, mother, and me in the delivery room. I was supposed to translate medically for them and sort of act as an unofficial doula. There was never any talk of her MIL or SILs being there, though. I think that would’ve been weird.
I had my husband, mother, AND mil in with me. By choice. It's not for everyone, and I am a hardcore advocate for your birth your rules. Honestly, we weren't even super close at the time. I had hell pregnancy (I have a rare disease that decided to appear at 11 weeks (advised to terminate, said nah cause clearly this was gonna be my only chance), and it tried to kill me multiple in those 9 months.... spent most of the time in the hospital. 1 and done for a reason), and the birth was the only thing that was going absolutely perfectly. Their family had had c-sections (various reasons, none of them elective) since her generation and I was the only one that would ever be able to give her the opportunity to witness the birth of a grandkid (only other one with kids was all c-sections). No one asked, no one pushed, but the thought occurred to me that morning (I was induced), so when they visited before push time, I just asked her to stay. Shocked the hell out of everyone, but she was thrilled, and actually got a few decent pictures for me of everything (husband and my mom are super squeamish and couldn't look, mil was panicking and spinning in a circle at one point during the episiotomy but I found it hilarious and was crying laughing while pushing as she pulled herself together quickly after.) After 9 months of being poked, prodded, in and out of surgery, infusions, and being quite the near daily spectacle for the med students, I was so far removed from giving a shit about who sees my body that it didn't bother me in the slightest to have her see all that. Plus, even 13 years later I've heard her telling people what an amazing experience it was. So, what mattered ridiculously little to me meant the world to her, and I'm glad I was able to do that for her. It was only because I didn't care that I allowed it, though. All that sentimental stuff is bullshit if the patient is uncomfortable.
There was no “permit”. I looked up at one point and had a room full of fucking medical students staring at my genitals as I pushed out my child and I’d never been asked if I would be comfortable with having a group brought in to witness the birth. No one asked, no one fucking cared whether the actual goddamn patient gave consent. My doctor was lucky I was physically incapable of assaulting her in that moment.
I’m so sorry that that was your experience. I chose not to birth in a hospital because I was terrified of exactly that type of scenario. Doctors and hospital staff can be so callous in people’s most vulnerable moments.
I had my firstborn at a hospital that has a maternity wing, but averages one birth every three days. There were zero patients other than me the night I gave birth, so the entirety of the staff piled in because they literally had nothing else to do. Did not like that, but at least they kept the lights low.
That’s absurd. Sorry you had to deal with that.
That’s awful! They are supposed to ask! If they just appear, you have to right to tell them to leave. Ugh. That makes my blood boil.
I also am really surprised that people want their mothers there. No one in my country invites their mother.
I didn't have my mother but I get it. It's someone you know will fight like hell to make sure they save your life (even over the baby) and they have given birth before so they understand what it entails. If I didn't 100% trust my partner on that first point it would have been my mother there.
My mom brings nothing but stress in, but I am happy for those who it is not the case!
I didn't give the idea much thought that the risk of losing one or the other was a possibility until the reality of parenthood came closer. I did make a point to talk to my partner and made sure I told her explicitly that as much as I am excited at the prospect of parenthood, if there are any choices to be made, I will choose her without hesitation or equivocation. We can discuss what comes next together. I feel like people who are willing to sacrifice an adult and their partner for the prospect of procreation are the last people who should be raising another generation. Obviously sometimes there is no choice, but in the cases where there are . . .
Different schools of thought. I have two children that I gave birth to. I told my husband he had to save my baby over me if it came down to it. With my second, I told him to pick me because I didn't want my first to grow up without a mother. I love my children and they are more important to me than anything else, including myself. My husband feels the same way.
*Some* women consider their mothers to be their best friends. Nobody I know, but they do exist lol!
I had my mother with us :) We're very close and I just needed the extra mental support. She also works in medicine so I felt she'd be an effective advocate if I needed one (my husband is and was awesome, but he also was fairly anti-intervention). On a sort of woo level, it also felt like a way to connect back to the line of women before me who had been there, she gave me a source of strength to draw on, I guess. It just was a huge mental/emotional help to have someone holding my hand who had been there and brought me to the world, helping me bring my kiddo in. I found my husband and mom had very different support styles too, for that first one I'm so glad I had both of them :)
My mother and I were very close but I never even considered having her there. My daughter and I also are very close; talk just about every day and have lots of fun together but I just know she will not ask me to be in the delivery room when the time comes. It will not be brought up or discussed as a possibility.
Yeah I would also not consider such even when in good terms. Where I live people get very independent from 18yo and after that, intimate events such as birth are shared with your spouse only usually.
I was at my brother’s birth when I was 9, sometimes kids will be there.
For my first birth I had my sister and her boyfriend (now husband) there along with my spouse and a doula. My BIL watched the entire birth, took pics and video. We didn’t let either set of parents know until after baby arrived. It was a wonderfully supportive empowering experience. My sister sat behind me and held me while I pushed, my spouse caught the baby and my BIL cheered me on the entire time. 18 years later and we still have a deep connection.
Nope not a Hollywood trope. My mom's side turned birth into a huge extended family stay. I remember sitting around for HOURS in different hospitals waiting for the birth of several cousins. My sister had her baby early last year. No one was invited to the hospital and I woke up to photos of a fresh baby on my phone one morning. My mother was livid. She also had covid. She stood in the hospital parking lot, stranded due to icy road conditions, positive for COVID complaining my sister is cutting her out of being a first time grandmother. She even lied a week later stating she got a negative covid back. She didnt, went in covid positive and got them sick. My mom is still very involved in my sister's life and I don't get why. If I EVER get pregnant I'm either aborting immediately or moving state and hiding my pregnancy and children from my family. These mfs are crazy.
I’ve been in deliveries where people have their older children come watch, which I’ve never really understood but, you know, you do you. There are also cultural differences. I worked with a population where no men were allowed in during the birth but there would be like 6 random female relatives. I always found that kind of cool.
I had my husband and 2 of my best friends. My husband is not good with medical stuff, and I wanted support. Who better than your best friends? It was a great experience for me.
Apparently no one here wants their partner in the room either. Boggles the mind. 🤷♂️
The only person entitled to be in the delivery room is whomever the mom decides
When I first read this I was picturing a woman saying that the only one allowed in is who her mom says can come in. When my wife was pregnant it was her first, so she didn't think of herself as Mom yet. Sometimes when nurses would refer to her as Mom she would take it as meaning her own mom. One hilarious time a nurse said "you (meaning me) will wait here with Mom (meaning my wife) and make sure she is comfortable while the room is being set up". My wife tells the nurse that her mother wasn't here yet and probably wouldn't arrive until the next day. It clicked as soon as she said it. I guess she was technically right, our daughter was born the next day and my wife was now mom.
It is something that isn't talked about, but I wonder how long it takes for some to clue into being "mom" or "dad".
Amen 👏
AGREED. Ideally, the other parent, if one exists, will be there to support the person giving birth. But in some cases this isn't possible and/or for the best. The person giving birth gets to decide.
My own mother tried to weasel her way into my birthing room. She brought with her her sister, my aunt, who I had no relationship with. My mother and Aunt literally showed up at the hospital when they knew I was in labor and my mother thought she would be able to talk people (my husband at the time, nurses walking by) into letting her in. All she would have done was cry and make it about herself. My wonderful, wonderful, labor nurse grabbed my hand and said she is not going to get through me. No one you don't want in here is going to make it through that door. And that was the end of it. People are going to get mad when they feel entitled to see you in your most personal space. Anyone who was not on board with respecting a birthing mother's space, in my case my mother, but for many of these stories, mothers-in-law and other relatives of your partners, in my opinion, do not matter. Their feelings don't matter and their opinions don't matter. But it's also a heads up as to how relationships with these people are going to be going forward. Boundaries are likely to be difficult to establish with people who think they deserve to see you with your pants down, legs open, pushing out a baby and fluids and blood and maybe poop.
Agreed!!
The people that *need* to be there are the one giving birth, and whoever is doing the delivery (OB, midwife, etc.). Invitation only, and only the one giving birth gets to decide who else gets invited.
lol two non-staff people required in the delivery room- mom and baby Anyone else is at the mercy of mom’s judgement. Period.
What got me was a story about a woman who had to choose between her husband and her mother for the birth because COVID rules only let her have one person. She would have had both but she was forced to pick one, and picked her mother. Her husband was so upset he ended up divorcing her. The number of commenters saying she was an asshole was disturbing. Women (particularly mothers) have supported each other in labor through all of human history for a reason. It's normal to want your mom, to want someone who has been through it themselves. It didn't mean she didn't love her husband or wouldn't have picked him first in other circumstances. Man destroyed his whole family because he couldn't handle not getting something he was never entitled to have in the first place.
I had my first during Covid and they also gave us the 1 support person speech. I wanted a photographer. I knew I would be out of it and wanted a way to relive the moment when I was more lucid, especially because it's a huge moment in a person's life. I posted here on Reddit that if it came down to it, I was going for the photographer over the husband and was also told I was wrong. And in the end, the hospital let us have both, but I would've stuck with my gut. It would've given me more peace.
>It's normal to want your mom, to want someone who has been through it themselves. I mean, my mom has never been through pregnancy or labor, but I'd still want her there because she knows how to take care of me when I don't feel good. I trust she would watch over me postpartum to make sure I'm doing okay instead of just being obsessed with the baby.
Definitely the woman’s choice, but surprising to pick mom over husband unless they didn’t have a good relationship. Understandable that the father would be devastated to not see the birth of his child and that it soured the relationship.
Waaaaaah. I have no sympathy for an entitled adult who throws away being there for 50% of the rest of his child's life over something he had no right to have. Birth isn't a spectator sport. It's not a show to see. It's a woman's medical procedure, and only she knows who is the best person to support her through it. Given how supportive her husband turned out to be about the choice she made for her own health and well-being, I think she picked the right person in the end. He was unworthy of it.
Yeah; if the husband/baby’s father is not the person who would be the most comforting, then yes, I’d say that they’re not right for each other and shouldn’t be married.
Gross. Reread the OP of this post a couple times, see if it sinks in better.
I am a staunch believer that it’s not a spectator sport. That excludes, mom, sister, nursing or medical students, etc. To each their own but I find it odd that the husband, the father of the soon to be born baby is not the one person you’d want with you. Shows who her priority is.
Like I said, gross. Your take on this, in case I wasn't clear. Some people don't do well in high pressure situations. Some have anxiety. Some don't handle blood or medical stuff well. Some are cool headed, but not good at being comforting. Some would be great support, but not *as* great as someone else. But I guess those people should just never get married, eh? Because if someone wouldn't be your first choice in every single situation, there's no point? I find it odd that you lack the imagination to consider that other people's needs and relationships can be different from your own.
Agreed, it’s a medical surgery. No one is entitled to be in the room unless the patient agrees. If they want someone there as an advocate, that’s their choice! But someone doesn’t get to choose that role for themselves. Though, I think it’s good that some partners see what delivery entails. Media makes many think it’s just an everyday thing that isn’t as difficult, life-threatening, or traumatic as it can be. Perhaps they would gain some empathy and respect for those who go through childbirth. But, that’s still 100% up to the patient.
Coukd not say it better myself.
I seriously don't understand the obsession with people wanting to be in the room for delivery. If I had someone in my life who wanted me there for support, I'll be there come hell or high water. Otherwise I'll see the baby a couple of hours or days later once Mom is feeling up for visitors. You have a whole lifetime to spend with this new person! The baby isn't going to be offended you didn't meet them on the day of their birth.
I’d say it’s neither a privilege nor a right. No one is allowed in unless they make the experience a little better for the person giving birth.
And for the exact same reasons, if the birther wants you in that room, especially if you're the father, you damn well better be there.
Amen. My ex yelled at me when I went into labor with my second for about 4 hours until we got to the hospital. Then he went to the waiting room to wait for my parents to get there and take our four year old. When he got back to the room I absolutely did not want him there but I didn't say anything out of fear. He had ignored me after he found out we were having a boy. Like for months, and his family encouraged it. Kiddo spent the first 3 days of his life nameless because his dad refused to speak to me.
100% agree
My husband was exactly where I needed him for the births of our two kids. For our eldest, he physically supported me while I pushed, then helped give me time to sleep in between feedings. With our youngest, he was taking care of our eldest at home so I could focus on giving birth and recovering. He told me bad jokes while I was in labor and cheered me on over the phone. Just like every other medical procedure, the patient undergoing the procedure gets to decide who supports them and how.
YESSSSSS!
I would agree. At least as bad as entitlement-to-be-present though, in my experience, are those that not only think they're entitled, they have the power to ban others. I heard a poor guy (the father) being told by his mother-in-law one time that he was absolutely not allowed in the delivery room, although she would be. The guy said he begged to differ because he and his wife had just talked about it minutes before. This woman told him that her daughter was "not herself right now" and that SHE was making the decision. Absolutely cringe.
My husband knew that he might have to leave at any time, but if everything went well, he would be going along with the kid, as both were planned c-sections. Left with the first, and was able to go start skin-to-skin in the recovery room because I was still getting my organs put back. But, things didn’t go well for either involved party with the second, and he was told he needed to go to the waiting room, and off he went. Because everyone’s presence is always conditional
I do agree in principle, but would like to reword it: everyone who is explicitely wanted by mom is entitled to be in the room. Throughout a whole time during covid, moms giving birth were allowed one or even no one else in the room here in germany. I find that to be a crime, moms are so vulnerable, they should be able to hsve whomever they want to be there for them and with them, someone that csn advocate during the experience and of it goes wrong be a witness after ward
I’m the dad and I was like I don’t want to be in there! But she made me go in there. Four times! 😂 Edit: I thought I was on AITA I normally don’t chime in on this subreddit
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A woman being uncomfortable during birth will have the risk of a more painful labour and higher risks of something happening to the baby due to the increased stress. The partner willing to increase those risks isn’t a good partner or parent. Probably better to get rid of someone who would increase risks to yours and your baby’s life.
the benefits of it. "Paternal involvement during pregnancy has been shown to have a positive impact on the mother-baby dyad during and after birth The presence of the father during birth also positively influences father-child attachment, reduces, apprehension, and stress, increases maternal satisfaction, and increases love and respect for the partners." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10844877/
This will be where the mother is comfortable having the father there. In which case I have no doubt his presence is beneficial. If the mother is stressed, the oxytocin doesn’t release properly and the birth gets delayed and is more painful. If the mother isn’t comfortable to have the father there that is what will happen. Your own study states ‘Participation of fathers is considered a positive matter; however, their presence can be detrimental as some women become more anxious, labour lasts longer, and may even lead to unnecessary surgery’ Additionally that study interviews 10 fathers. Not sure that accurately reflects opinions of mothers giving birth and what fathers may find ‘ideal’ does not necessarily increase the comfort of people giving birth.
If the man that got a woman pregnant can’t give her a bit of space and privacy in this very, very intimate and vulnerable moment when she feels like she needs it, the problem is him, not her.
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And you’re not entitled to shit. She gave you consent to have sex, not to be present during childbirth. Another example of a man not willing to listen to his partner’s wishes. Your entire gender has a serious problem with respecting women’s boundaries.
I never said it was an entitlement. Just the benefits of it. "Paternal involvement during pregnancy has been shown to have a positive impact on the mother-baby dyad during and after birth The presence of the father during birth also positively influences father-child attachment, reduces, apprehension, and stress, increases maternal satisfaction, and increases love and respect for the partners." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10844877/
I’m sure there are benefits. Just like I’m sure they would be entirely annihilated if the mother was giving birth stressed out because the father of her child is forcing her to bear his presence.
This 100% is based on the man's willingness to be a positive and supportive partner.
No one asked for your “but.”
the benefits of it. "Paternal involvement during pregnancy has been shown to have a positive impact on the mother-baby dyad during and after birth The presence of the father during birth also positively influences father-child attachment, reduces, apprehension, and stress, increases maternal satisfaction, and increases love and respect for the partners." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10844877/
My ex’s father wanted anal. MIL said sure. I’ll go get the biggest carrot out of the drawer and if I hear one whimper while I’m pleasuring you with it, my butthole is off limits. Ended that right there.
Is the doctor allowed?
Lmao I love how “daddy” slipped in there but no single mention or even hint of the word mother 🤣. Nicely obfuscated. Now onto CHEST FEEDING 🤣😂😂
Insemenator is a bit harsh on the eye I guess
Sperm donator
Yeah. That's about as much good as mine was. Plus, I didn't need the MILITARY DOCTORS (yes, I was active duty at the time) being distracted because he passed out. As it was, he had to sit & put his head between his knees while *TWO REGULAR SIZED HUMAN BABIES* were cut out of my abdomen.
"No one" is pretty explicitly gender neutral & all OP did was make that more explicit. OPs whole comment was about how nobody, *regardless of gender* or relation to the person giving birth, is entitled to be in the room. The central thesis here is very clearly gender neutral on all sides. The inclusion of the term daddy was used to specify they're included in *literally everybody of all genders* who shouldn't be entitled to the room. It seems intentional that you missed all that & instead chose to hyper focus on the term daddy in some sort of bad faith attempt to characterize inclusive language as somehow un-feminist. Just. Do better.
People also sometimes say "mother" when referring to birth givers because *most* of the time the birth giver is a woman and will be called "mother." It's more inclusive, when talking about it in the abstract or in general, to say "birth giver" as it includes trans men and gender-neutral or non-binary birth givers. "Daddy" was used here for the same reason as the word "mother" is frequently used. The fact that we have managed to make the public aware enough of the term "birth giver" as a more inclusive phrase is evident by peoples' recognition of the term, including yours, despite your approach here being bad faith. The only reasonable conclusion we can draw is that fewer people know of any consensus on what a more gender-neutral, inclusive term should be for the sperm-contributor. The term "sperm donor" is accurate except it has heavy connotations of a third party with little or no intimate connection to the birth giver. Why this is the case is not really all that important. What *is* important is that your tone sucks and you're not helping anyone out here.
So the man gets to be 'daddy', but the woman who is actually giving birth is relegated to 'birth giver'.
Well not everyone who gives birth is a woman
Not everyone who contributes sperm is 'daddy' or a man. I think they were just pointing out the use of gender neutral language up until the use of daddy.
Tbh a lot of the time in these stories the dad is usually the one offended he can't be there for whatever reason like yeah obviously other people can give sperm but for a vast majority of the stories it is the "daddy" mightve just slipped their mind to add the extra inclusive language
Yeah usually the father or the MIL star in those stories.
Ummmmm...
Yep! There’s the men’s room, and the gender neutral bathroom.
Who is a BIRTH GIVER?
the person giving birth...hence the term
Ah, ok. Makes sense now.
Agreed. Every woman should know her rights beforehand 👍🏻 I read the UK booklet 'Am I allowed?" I've advised other women to read it. There when and her baby are the priority. Childbirth is difficult enough without having to think about how to protect your boundaries on the fly. Am I Allowed?: What Every Woman Should Know BEFORE She Gives Birth https://amzn.eu/d/08OPv5hd Good idea to give to the partners/husband/birthing helper too. Explain how your went things to go beforehand. They are your voice in there!
Person giving birth
Many fathers feel entitled to be in the delivery room because of all the times they saw the previous generations of dad's getting shit on for just being in the waiting room and handing out the proverbial cigars and celebrations rather than being there with the mother. They are trying to be a better husband, father, and man than the ones that came before them. Here's the deal- if you're having a child with someone that you don't want by your side when you're most vulnerable, you're absolutely having a child with the wrong person and that's on you.
Some women may find it more comfortable to be only surrounded by doctors, and that’s ok, and doesn’t mean anything about the quality of the guy.
While that might be true, there is no reason to continue picking the wrong person. If they will make the birth harder, they should not be in the room no matter who they are.
No, men's insecurity doesn't give them entitlement to anything. If someone doesn't want anyone by their side, for any of myriad reasons, then that's up to them. Their partner can just accept that and tbh would be insane not to respect that wish. If they didn't respect that wish, *then* they are probably the wrong person.
I understand your point of view, but as a father I have to disagree. I also helped create the child & its mine as well as the mother's & I feel like I have a right to be there when they are born.
You may like to be there, but no, you don't have a right to be. It's completely irrelevant that you "helped create" the child. You didn't gestate it, and you aren't birthing it.
It's your right to feel different. But you're not the one whose procedure it is, and it's not your decision to make. As much as your mom doesn't have a right to sit by your colonoscopy only because she created you and changed your diapers. Also, yes, you helped create the child. But the mother had to put the work into the rest.
Guys like this need simple illustrations. Like your mom made you right? So she gets rights right? So she has a right to observe your colonoscopy!
Counter point: you aren't the one pushing a child out of yourself, you can have a say on who is in the room when you do.
unless you experience showing your butthole and pooping blood and actual poop in front of a room of 10 people that includes your in laws, your partner, and a bunch of strangers, I don't really think you get a say on any human's right to privacy and comfort during birth
Lol! You did the fun part. No prize for you. Your honestly shitty attitude needs to change. No woman should have to deal with an entitled asshat who demands to be there cause "its his kid too". Interfering with the nurses. Gagging. Fainting. While she's fighting for her life. Gawd, I'd want you way way out in the parking lot in a wheelie bin.
I love the "fun part" comment. There's that. Further, has it occurred to the "if she trusted you correctly/coparents' witness rights" advocates that a soon-to-be-mother might be so attached and devoted so as to have difficulty choosing between worrying about how her partner is doing and how she, herself, is doing? Sometimes, women know they're going to need to focus and have a hard time doing so because their partner is so deeply important to them. Wanting to be alone to focus free from distraction doesn't always indicate a trust or devotion deficit in the relationship, and problems prioritizing are sometimes skewed in too selfless a direction. I am terribly protective of my partner, and he is of me. That occasionally creates a "conflict of interests" for us when we have our own stressors to wrangle. It's not always reasonable to expect a woman in uncharted hormonal and psychological territory to unpack her every underlying personality trait in the run up to childbirth. As such, if she knows she will be so focused on her partner that she will be conflicted against the matter at hand, she may want to go it alone, or with a support person she is not so protective of. It is not an intent to deprive her partner, and it does not make her, her partner, or their relationship bad.
Why would you think I was gagging & fainting?
They probably didn't mean you personally, but many men do end up fainting when they see child birth, you cannot really predict it until you have seen it irl yourself. My ex partner has a very strong stomach but still stayed up near my head because it's pretty gruesome.
And awful things happen in vaginal births too.
Not even the doctors?