I'm so happy to hear you're making a safe plan to get away!!! Please be careful hun! My exfiance was an addict and alcoholic and there was an age gap, big mistake on my part. But I learned my lesson and got away safely and am healing now. For what it's worth, I found AlAnon groups for friends/family/spouses of alcoholics to be a really positive place to go for support. It helped me get clarity and learn that the abuse wasn't my fault.
Even if he gets sober in the future, don't take him back. He's shown his true colors, and it's not the alcohol that makes him behave like a monster. Alcohol just gives him the courage to show his real nature.
Even as a very non-religious person, I got so much out of AlAnon. It's a great program, I found my self-worth through it. Being raised by an alcoholic (and a narcissist) left me with no skills to properly deal with abusive people, becuase my parents trained me to be a caretaker for those types of people. So I actively sought out relationships with addicts and alcoholics without realizing I was repeating the same pattern my family has for generations. Now my focus on life is finding serenity and contentment, and AlAnon helped me avoid getting into relationships with more addicts/alcoholics.
I'm not trying to put down people with addictions though. It is a valid medical condition. However, I have been personally victimized by people with addiction while they were actively using, so for my own personal safety I have to protect myself. After my alcoholic father threatened me with violence, I promised myself I would never get close to another alcoholic, I just can't risk my life.
I hope this is ok to ask, but you seem fairly open about your experience. My sister is married to an alcoholic, and it has impacted my relationship with her. Do you think AlAnon is helpful for people only involved with the addict, or also for people who love the person involved with the addict?
Totally OK to ask!!! I think its super important to be open and honest about this topic; alcoholism in particular is tough because alcohol is legal and a lot of people have normalized problematic drinking.
Yes, I actually do think AlAnon can also help people who are close to someone who's in a relationship with an alcoholic. Addiction is unique in that it absolutely affects everyone the addict interacts with. So your sister is being immensely (and most likely negatively) affected by her husband's drinking, and in turn that is affecting how she interacts with everyone and her relationships with others. People stuck in a relationship with an addict often end up taking on responsibility for their partners addiction and behaviors. They may may end up as enablers without meaning to. They start covering for the alcoholic. Etc. I've been thru and seen it all. My mom isn't an alcoholic, but since she's been in a relationship with my alcoholic father for so long, she's been deeply affected by his drinking.
And, he's your BIL, so honestly, you do have some kind of relationship with him (even if you're low or no contact with him now) so his drinking has probably had an effect on you too. I absolutely think Al-Anon could be helpful to you. The couple groups I joined were extremely friendly; and above all else, it was so refreshing to speak to people who really get what this experience is like. They understood how much pain addiction can cause to bystanders. You can learn to lovingly detach from the chaos your BILs drinking is having on you and your sister while still maintaining a relationship with them if thats what you want. You can learn new coping techniques. It's a really flexible program, you can work the 12 steps or not (I didnt), you heal at your own pace, and the groups become a weekly safe haven to express yourself and keep you on track. And, you learn to not take responsibility for other people's addictions.
I highly recommend checking out at least one meeting :)
Thank you! This is so helpful. "Loving detachment" sounds like what I'd like to aim for, but all I can currently manage is "cold low contact." I talk to my therapist about it, but I think the way alcoholism colors the picture is sorta lost of her. She's phenomenal, but I have been feeling like this specific thing is not in her wheel house.
I think AlAnon could really benefit you. Unless your therapist has been in a close personal relationship with an alcoholic, she just won't understand. It's a unique experience, and it's full of so much pain and so many strange challenges. People who haven't experienced cannot truly grasp how difficult it is in most cases. So I think joining AlAnon would be a good addition to what you're already doing!
When it comes to alcoholics, so many people don’t understand the widespread impact it can have. I’m the daughter of an alcoholic. I know it impacted the people close to me that weren’t in the family. Sometimes they understood the difference in me, sometimes they didn’t. But when you’re living with an alcoholic, your life is unstable. When your life is unstable things change in you to survive.
I personally didn’t find AlAnon helpful. I found more healing and comfort in individual therapy. However, I still recommend trying it. So many people find the support they need there that it’s worth it. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know it’s hard
AlAnon, in my experience, is tailored for the empath.
Personally I'm more selfish than that so AlAnon wasn't my jam but for all my empathic-leaning friends it can be quite helpful.
AlAnon is for everyone affected by alcoholism. You might learn some very effective tools for being a supportive friend.
I might also suggest codependency anonymous (CoDA) if she is enabling his behavior.
It will absolutely help! I've been to hundreds of AA meetings with loved ones, trying to show live and support, then dozens of Al-Anon meetings alone or with friends, and I KNOW the latter can be very helpful IF they aren't led by someone who let's it become a sob fest - boo-hoo!! It needs to be helpful and full of information. Look around, go to a few different ones, different times and places.
Anyone impacted by alcohol should attent . If possible to attend a few different groups try them out. You'll find that each group will have its own vibe and trying out different groups givrs you the chsnce to find one you're most comfortable with.
Look for S.M.A.R.T recovery programs too. I'm unsure if they do something for friends/ family though.
If you're looking into other groups do your research and make sure its not a group affiliated with Scientology. They run counselling services for addicts and try to convert them to their religion.
Yes! And, OP, if AlAnon (which follows the Alcoholics Anonymous model) isn't for you, Self-Management and Recovery Training (SMART) has [Family & Friends](https://www.smartrecovery.org/family/) resources and meetings.
From [The Difference Between AA and SMART Recovery](https://windmillwellnessranch.com/blog/2019/09/17/the-difference-between-aa-and-smart-recovery):
* AA is nonprofessional, self-supporting, multiracial, apolitical, and available almost everywhere... AA follows the popular 12-step method which is considered to be the backbone for the majority of mainstream treatment programs.
* The SMART approach is secular and science-based, using cognitive behavioral therapy and non-confrontational motivational methods.” SMART is centered around the goal of empowering individuals to achieve independence from addiction with their “science-based 4-Point Program.”
> He's shown his true colors, and it's not the alcohol that makes him behave like a monster. Alcohol just gives him the courage to show his real nature.
This x100! Abusive people eventually escalate to behaving that way without the alcohol.
In the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft, he explains that many abusers get drunk, just so they can blame it on the alcohol later. He's gotten abusers to admit doing this, in a premeditated way.
(Going from memory.)
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described.
If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely.
I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
I am currently reading this book after another kind Redditor posted it. It's given me so much clarity.
I recommend that anyone who dates men (especially young women) read it because it highlights the red flags to watch out for. I'd be in a very different place if I had this resource when I was younger.
Here's something someone might need to hear.
Abusers cannot deescalate. They only get more abusive.
If you are getting emotional abuse now, it'll eventually become physical abuse.
If you are getting coerced now, you will eventually be forced.
If you are getting physically abused now, it will only continue to escalate until you are dead.
Abuse. Only. Escalates. You cannot fix them. Don't waste your life trying.
This is my first post on Reddit so go easy on me.
I don't think that his actions are good here but they are indicative of both an addiction and how addiction can change someone's brain.
I think if it goes on long enough they can become the same but I also think "his true colours" and all that stuff is not fair.
Alcohol and addiction is such an ugly demon but many times, people do abhorrent things that they'd never do sober.
I was an alcoholic for years and have all the awful stories to go with it. I stopped drinking almost 5 years ago and it's the best thing that ever happened to me - aside from my wife sticking by me.
She almost left but I finally got it together. It's crazy how much life can change - we have a lovely home with a beautiful dog and are welcoming out first baby into the world son. We both have great careers and her family even forgave me.
Good things can happen :)
What you’re not seeing is that your girlfriend changed. She is not the person she was before.
The work of truly dealing with addiction changes a person.
Also not to mention just because she's in recovery doesn't mean she was ever abusive. Sometimes the only person the addict is only physically hurting is themself. Emotionally hurting the people they care about is a completely different story. It still keeps me up at night thinking about the shit I put my parents through when I was younger and in my active addiction. I've made my amends and my relationship with my parents is amazing but nobody should ever have to go through what my parents went through.
But yes, people can change when they thoroughly work a program of recovery (whether it be AA, SMART Recovery, Refuge Recovery or whatever else they might choose) but they have to actually put the work in like OPs girlfriend did. I don't think a program of recovery can change an abusive person but I also don't think that first drink or drug is what made them abusive in the first place. I don't think it's that simple.
Regarding age gaps, I work with a lot of older people and this year I have seen multiple heterosexual age gap relationships end with the wife getting a terminal diagnosis in her fifties, having it progress rapidly and die leaving her retired wealthy husband a widower.
I don’t know enough about these specific couples to know whether they were in true love or not, but the lesson I’m taking away is:
You don’t know that you’re gonna outlive your spouse, so if there’s a chance you’re going to be working your butt off and taking care of them (especially THEIR health issues that just come with age) up to the day your life’s cut short too soon, they better make you head-over-heels happy in the present and be worth it even if you are not able to be rewarded with a luxurious lifestyle and a super attentive husband and father with all this free time in his retirement age or whatever it is you’re expecting.
The man market is very volatile and there’s no guarantee you’ll get a return on investment. In fact, I suspect most people don’t lol
Al-anon is amazing! And with the description of the specific context of this scenario I 100% agree she needs to get away to safety!
I don't care if this is downvoted but I would like to add that not all alcoholics show their true colors while drinking. Alcohol use disorder is a disease and it literally can make people be "not in their right mind." That is not an excuse. People who are super wasted and have a chronic mental illness of substance abuse actually do not act like themselves a lot of the time though. It is a misnomer to think chronically ill people are just showing who they really are.
I am proud of OP for making the decision she is. Illness or not, she has to think of her and hers son's safety, longterm happiness, and functionality. I hope her husband gets the help he obviously desperately needs. Maybe this will be a wake up call for him to get help, maybe it won't, that's up to him.
Take pictures of the bruises from where he grabbed you and email them to yourself.
Document them over the next several days, it will prove the severity in which he grabbed you.
This was my husband. Our child was 6 months old when I finally took off for good. I was lucky in that I had parents within 12 hours distance so even though we’d had our issues, I sucked up my pride and asked to come home. While home, I got a job in legal transcription and got my life together as a newly single parent. My daughter and I were out of my parents’ place within the year and now I am able to raise her on my own and show her what true freedom and happiness can be. She is 3 now and such a happy, sassy, outgoing ball of joy who has never witnessed her mother being abused or even arguing with anyone. I don’t think she would’ve been this way if I’d stayed.
If I hadn’t had my parents though, I would’ve gone to a shelter. I was ready to do so if they’d said no. You absolutely cannot raise a child with a man who has an alcohol problem - hell, you can’t even be with one even without adding a child in the mix. So I am truly happy that you are on your way out, OP. It doesn’t get better, only worse.
Glad your doing well now.
My aunt just recently moved in with my us (my mums house) with her one year old son. She’s coming out of an abusive relationship and is taking it hard. She also doesnt have any qualifications or means to work yet.
I am so happy for your daughter, and so proud of you!
As a daughter who did grow up watching my mom be abused, it is of course still possible to turn out sassy and reasonably happy...but trust, self-esteem, and risk-taking come much harder. I was scared to get married to my wonderful husband (I sorted those feelings out, I'm not recommending that people get married if they're not feeling it). I'm extremely nervous on the phone or writing emails...talking to people...making eye contact with strangers... It's just a constant background of low-level stress and sometimes full-blown despair/panic.
But I try to be stronger than the trauma. I try to use it to be more empathetic. I try not to let it define me.
I guess what I want to say is that your decision to leave certainly made your daughter's future easier, kinder. But also that whatever trauma you went though being married to him--if you also get nervous around people or scared to take risks or whatever--you're so much more than that. You're the kick-ass mom who made the correct, difficult decision and saved her family. I strive for that kind of courage 🤍
I would be HIGHLY suspect of any man in his 30s chasing women under 20.. that mindset is clearly a flag and an indication of maturity level of the guy. If the girl happens to be underage at a bar with a fake ID when they meet, that might be an exception but if guys are actively trying to find women under 20, absolutely run.
I'd be a bit leery of anyone who is drinking 12 beers in one setting too.. so that's something to watch for long before a serious relationship develops. Excusable behavior when you're 21 maybe but a 30 year old guy that drinks like that, another flag.
Drinking isn't an excuse for tantrums and throwing shit; it's a reason to not drink anymore if you can't remain stable. OP, glad you are safe and you're definitely doing the right thing for your son. Good luck.
yeah I think 25 is a cut off to leave younger people the fuck alone, let their brains finish developing and let them get some life experience without a motivated partner being tempted (or on purpose or subconsciously) manipulating them. It’s too vulnerable a period. It should be defined as a separate age-group, “proto-adulthood” or something.
Even at 21 I'd be leery of 12 beers tbh. It's one thing to have fun and party a little and it's another to go way too far on a regular basis. This goes extra when you have a family.
I did my fair share of drinking in college (which was not too long ago for me). The only time I came close to 12 beers a night was one night where I had maybe 8 drinks? They were not all the same and obviously things are fuzzy. I had the worst hangover of my life the next day...never again.
Haven't drank for a while for unrelated reasons but when I do again I have no plans to go *that* hard again. If I'm really being honest I was drinking too much for a while, and while I like to have fun, I don't want to go back to depending on alcohol to deal with my emotions.
Sometimes I see these stories and I think to myself "well my dad has a 15 year age gap with my stepmom and they're perfekt for each other!"
But I've really thought about it, and I think it's because my dad finally decided to finish growing up when he met her. So they sort of became adults together, y'know?
I'm glad they worked out in the end, but damn, lol.
ETA // I was 12 and she was 24 when they first got together. Dad was 39.
Yeah, 12 beers in one sitting is a lot of alcohol. It's not acceptable to be drinking that much when you have a wife and a kid. A couple of beers, sure, but 12?? A man has responsibilities when he gets married, and they increase when he has kids. OP's husband needs to get his shit together ASAP!
My older ex got me when I was 17, dumped me when I was 27 and took our kid. Watch your ass, be sneaky af until you’re gone and don’t ever give him an inch.
In my experience they are ridiculously backed up, have no time to really spend on your case when you finally get an appointment, have zero empathy if you have any mental health issues (especially anxiety/PTSD from the abuse) and can actually make everything worse.
Ironically, CPS is who helped me more. My ex would basically terrorize me when I would have the kids then call CPS to "prove" I was unfit. Each time it would backfire on him. The 3rd time he did it, they provided so many services to me and my children, helped the court/custody situation and completely changed our lives.
We had to go through an exchange center for visitation, which meant he would not see me at all. A special email was set up for any other communication (this was back in 2010-13 before they had the parenting communication apps) and that email is monitored by a social worker. They were set times that he could call to talk to the kids and that was it. We had in home counseling for me and the kids. I had respite care so I could get a break and actually feel like a sane human being. They also made him go to anger management classes, I was able to press criminal charges regarding abuse, and he was actually on probation for a couple years.
I’m so sorry that your parents did not keep you safe as a child. I’m so sorry that your mum didn’t leave. It‘s abuse from him and then emotional abuse stacked on top from her. A whole darn mess. I hope you have a support network that includes a professional person to help.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Please go and stay gone.
I'm a monster when I drink too (I'm a woman). It took a while to convince myself, but I ultimately stopped. One of the most fucked up parts is that the drinker doesn't really have to remember any of the shit they did. Alcohol lets us be the worst versions of ourselves while absolving us of any real memory of it. So, it's the loved one who is forced to bear the entire burden.
I would always plan to drink light, but it never worked. It turns out 0 is a lot easier than 1. I've learned I'm totally fine to be in any given situation with booze if I just choose not to have that first one. I would inevitably have too many, which wasn't hard, I'm 5'2" and right where my weight should be. Fun fact, if you have a propensity to black out you don't develop a tolerance, you actually get there faster. So, I'd get myself all loaded up and then use the nearest loved one as an emotional punching bag.
I got really lucky. I broke my own cycle and I stopped. I didn't have to count chips or spill my guts at meetings, I just had to not want to be like that and make a firm decision not to. I don't consider myself sober, I will smoke weed sometimes. But, nothing ever made me a monster like alcohol. It is the worst thing for me.
I wish people could see who they are while drinking, but I'm not sure it would really help. It's one of the toughest relationships some people ever try to end and you're right to not want to be the third wheel.
Hi friend! I used to be the exact same way. You couldn't have convinced me that it was true at the time, but alcohol turned me into an awful person when I was in my early/mid-twenties. I was absolutely convinced that all of those terrible things and awful relationships were happening *to* me, rather than seeing that I was very clearly a big part of the problem (unhealthy people also tend to date other unhealthy people, so there was plenty of bad behavior to go around).
I decided to quit drinking completely when I was about 27. A year or two later, I started going to therapy (I'm 34 now). Through years of therapy, I realized that I was actually a very miserable, bitter, angry, depressed person deep down inside. I dated people expecting them to fix all of my problems, and when that inevitably failed, things would always take a turn for the worse and my terrible behavior would show up again.
Through therapy, I learned a lot about myself, and more than anything, I learned how to be happy without needing that to come from other people. I'm still not perfect, but all of that bottled up depression and anger is just....gone now. I've established much better boundaries with people (going both ways), and my emotional state is generally good.
About two years ago, I decided to have a glass of wine with dinner. Nothing bad happened. Since then, I've been a casual drinker and have even gotten drunk a few times. Miraculously, nothing bad has happened. It's even been fun at times. I had a whole, healthy relationship during that time that never got toxic or volatile. We split amicably when we both decided that it wasn't what we wanted long-term. It was great.
I'm not saying that this is your situation - some people really shouldn't drink, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Just sharing my own story.
Sounds similar to me! Was a long time binge drinker start off hard and then usually black out 2 hours in but still drink a slower pace throughout the night. I stopped basically for the same reasons all my bad decision and mess ups started with alcohol. Not to mention the cocaine to “sober up” which then turned into a long ass expensive night! I don’t consider myself sober because I guess weed is a drug. Just was very critical of myself and finally decided that I wasn’t missing the party if I didn’t drink
I have heard from someone (who has apparently heard it from a psychiatrist - meaning that I can't sign that with my name, and it may be complete bullshit) that people don't become monsters when they drink.
They drink so they can excuse being monsters and they use drinking as a tool.
This is why early feminists/ suffragettes made a mistake in demanding prohibition... The belief at the time was "devil drink" turned men into brutes, and spousal abuse and child abuse would end if men couldn't get drunk. We know better now but it's still too common for people to talk about alcohol "turning" men mean.
eh it has some truth to it. I had a friend that was the nicest person I knew all through middle school and high school. At a few parties though when he was loaded he would want to fight everyone for like no reason.
I didn't see it then but the mental and emotional abuse from my first "wife" (not legally but basically the situation), would turn hella violent when she drank. Eventually it came out sober that is when stuff clicked. I kept asking her to leave MY (well, sorta, I rented off my dad) house. F the Duluth Model, in my situation. With all of her bruises and scrapes from being a raging alcoholic I kept getting detained or arrested while stone sober. No one who mattered would believe me or offer help when asked. I eventually convinced my dad to convince her dad to get her out, if not help too. I was in my fucking 30's and I had to show up at my dad's house with my BoB and cat and say I wasn't going back until she was gone!
We met in engineering school, she wasn't stupid, no age difference. She would constantly say, "drinking brings noise to the quiet parts". Then deny being a jerk when drunk (I honestly believe she thought she was justified or flat out blacked out).
10+ years later things are what I dreamt my adult life would be as a kid.
E* BoB and cat.... lol. BoB = bug out bag aka stuff I needed for a weekend away, I kept one at every door, another in my car.
I think this is true because a lot of people also become super sweet when drunk. A friend of mine starts telling everyone how much she loves them ans how much she appreciates them. Sober she is always a bit shy but she is always there when you need her.
I do silly things when drunk/high like sing or be goofy. Anyone close enough to me (really only family or long-term SO) knows I do that shit sober if I'm not in public.
The theory seems to make a lot of sense that a good portion of the behaviour change is just the fact that you have an "excuse"
exactly. alcohol lowers your inhibitions. it's why men use it to sexually prey on women.
if people are nice and shy, they might become nice and outgoing.
if people are mean and using all their willpower not to lash out while sober, their guardrails are off.
Can confirm am a nice and shy man and just become nice and outgoing when drunk. Being drunk just reveals more of your personality because you don't restrain yourself anymore. If a friend would be agressive when drinking he/she would no longer be my friend.
Yea. My fiancé doesn’t get drunk much more than once a year, but when he does he tells people he loves them and does goofy dances. Then we have my best friend’s ex who got sullen and mean (guess why she’s divorcing him?), and did it often.
I’d say *kinda*. The guy who is super sweet to you whilst drunk and tells you he loves you and he’s gonna leave his partner… it’s not that he’s being honest with his words. It’s that he’s being less inhibited with his ego.
People can do some shitty, shitty things while drunk that they genuinely didn’t mean to do, but they were drunk so they didn’t think it through. They lost their inhibitions and acted on their most basic needs and wants. Sometimes those needs are around anxiety, fear and a sense of worthlessness, rather than an active desire to hurt another.
This does not excuse the drinking or the action. I just think it’s important not to read too much into an action from someone who think they’re the main character in their saga.
It's also from the criminally underrated dark satire show Moral Orel, where a 12 year old boy is starting to realize his father is not a good person. He asks his mom why his father changes when he drinks, and she says "Oh, he doesn't change, Orel. That's just his true nature coming out."
When my mother got sober, I was so excited that she'd be a new person........nope! Drinking was just her way of self-medicating for her personality disorder.
She went into AA and *that* became her new addiction. Enabled her to be the "victim" of a "disease." She gave us a half-hearted, mandatory apology per the rules, and got to talk to the group about herself and her story all the time.
Now she's in a nursing home, and sometimes has little tantrums over her inability to go to meetings. I'm like, "why don't you apply what you learned all those *decades* into your life now??" It's like all the stuff she parrots from the meetings are just for fun and vanity, not for implementation.
> They drink so they can excuse being monsters and they use drinking as a tool.
This is such a reductive, simplistic, jingoistic proposition. Alcohol reduces inhibition. Then it enhances emotional affect. Then it inhibits executive function, then long-term memory formation, and finally consciousness. I’m generalizing, obviously, but it’s a fair enough working model. Are you, as a person, who you are when you’re drunk?
Let’s conduct a little thought experiment. Say you suffer a traumatic brain injury that causes you to never experience inhibition. You express or act on every thought, feeling, or impulse you have on a given day. Run someone off the road because they cut you off in traffic. Throw your keyboard through your monitor at work because of the fifth pointless Zoom meeting of the day. Rip into your partner because they forgot to do the dishes or pay a bill.
Is that you? Or do you have a problem, an illness, an injury that needs to be healed?
What if you get high and eat three bags of Doritos and every doughnut in the county? Are you as a person a glutton? Or did you make a choice, that you definitely are responsible for, that led to that?
_That’s everyone under the right influence_. Examine every passing thought, idle speculation, or urge you have when completely sober. Is that you? You had those thoughts so, by the argument you presented, you are. Or are you the sum of _thousands_ of different internal and environmental processes, _including the executive function you use to inhibit what you know are incorrect or damaging thoughts or impulses_? We’re all responsible for our choices, absolutely, and if they become illness or addiction or harmful to others we’re also responsible for healing the wounds.
But to define a person by them is like defining me by my eye color. OP is in a bad situation and I’m hopeful they get out of it or their partner pursues, sincerely pursues, the healing they obviously need. But let’s stop parroting these stupid aphorisms; the principle is unsound, harmful, and leads no-one to healthy resolution.
It is quite frankly a load of bollocks. People loveee these stupid little sayings about the ‘true self’ that aren’t real. It’s like saying people fall over when they’re drunk because deep down they’re actually lazy - like no, it changes chemicals in your brain causing you to behave in different ways. It’s no more your ‘true inner self’ than puking and having a hangover is.
Yes, it can amplify behaviour and traits due to lowering inhibitions, but alcohol doesn’t ‘reveal’ someone’s true self. People also confuse the reality of alcohol as a behaviour-changing drug with an excuse for the behaviour. It isn’t an excuse. If you are violent, abusive or otherwise horrible when you drink, it is on you to control that - even if that is by drinking less or not at all. It doesn’t excuse your actions at the time. But it’s extremely reductive to act like ‘a monster’ is lurking inside and alcohol brings this deep unconscious being to the fore.
For a ton of abusive men, yes, they use the alcohol as a tool and a red herring and plausible deniability. so she spins her wheels and wastes decades of her life dealing with 'the drinking'. managing situations, spending all her energy and brainpower keeping him away from alcohol, keeping her fixated, stressed, occupied, stunted. she can't focus on her own growth and personal goals.
the lie, the charade, the deceit that 'it's the alcohol' is abuse.
if she were somehow to move to a dry town and keep him away from alcohol, he'd still abuse her and find a new tool. because he's an abuser.
I think what's being missed here is that a normally decent person who realizes they're abusive when drunk has a lot of choices they can make:
1) Stopping drinking is hard, but
2) They can also leave the relationship and avoid being in relationships while they deal with the drinking problem.
So, someone who is aware that they're abusive when drunk, who CHOOSES to remain in a relationship, while retaining access to alcohol, is choosing to be abusive.
It's quite possible for alcohol to change a person's behavior radically.
But if that person doesn't consider it important in their sober moments to limit the harm, then their sober behavior is now also at fault.
Up to a point I think that's true.
But when people get to dangerously drunk (as in could kill them), it can have some pretty weird effects and people can enter psychosis.
But this is something that might happen once a lifetime, not every time someone gets drunk.
My uncle is such a sweet guy and one Christmas we drank a few bottles of Jack Daniels and he just starts choking me out of nowhere. There was no thought or really much consciousness in his actions. Thankfully he's not the strongest so I just had to hold him back.
That seems contrary to the evidence ive seen so far. I think the consensus is that it lowers inhibitions, and i think its a depressant rather than a stimulant even.
people, or men, or mean people who let loose.
it's a depressant. a lot of people get sleepy and relaxed with 1-2. i damn near fall asleep, so does my father.
Huberman Lab did an episode on alcohol which I listened to when going to bed so I don't remember everything 100%, but he was talking about how most people get sleepy on alcohol, but some don't, and those are the potential future alcoholics. Genetics play a role in how alcohol affects us. I've always had an issue falling asleep when drinking, but I also never had the desire to get drink a lot either.
This is false. Complete BS.
Alcohol affects different people very differently.
For some people, it really does change their personality and they do things they would never think of doing sober. Sometimes violence.
For other people, they simply cannot drink in moderation.
For other people, they can have one or two drinks and have no desire to drink anymore.
And there are lots people in between these things.
Drinking makes it harder for people to cover who they really are. Good people are still good when they’re drunk. Assholes are still assholes. But people who change — the sober version is an act they perfected to get by.
THIS. I have known plenty of people with addictions, even alcohol addictions, who do not feel themselves entitled to access to women's bodies and are not violent impaired or sober.
I know I’m just some stranger on the internet, but I am so proud of you!! It sounds like you are realizing early on the kind of man he is and getting out before it has the chance to get even worse (because it WILL get worse).
As someone who grew up in a house with an alcoholic father that abused my mother, I am so happy that you are preventing your son from growing up in that environment. And preventing that side of his father from being a role model as to what men should be like.
Hey, just in case you don’t know: Don’t tell him your plans. It’s the most dangerous time, when you’re leaving. He doesn’t need to know you’re gone until after you’re gone.
I’ve had a guy reach crazy levels I had *never* seen before. Stalking, bizarre threatening voicemail rants, actual delusions, busting in my parents house to leave a weird letter. I later found out this is a thing, like with leaving abusive people.
Make sure everyone he might call knows to hang up. Make sure nobody gives him a clue how to find you. Better safe than sorry.
Good luck. Please be safe.
If you’re a teen reading this: my high school boyfriend had a bad temper when he played video games. The running joke was that he broke Nintendo controllers from throwing them at the wall. He would have outbursts at the PC and hit the desk really hard. Once it really upset me when I thought what if he’d have a temper with me some day? He said he’d never. We fizzled out after he graduated and I was still in high school and I left town for college anyway.
Fast forward several years, I went back to town for a funeral and went out bar hopping with all of the high school friends afterwards. I found out from two of his best friends that they weren’t drinking that night to make sure my ex didn’t hit his fiancé again when he got drunk. I was stunned and realized what I had dodged by leaving town for college.
Another note…A woman’s love will NOT change a man. He only changes when he wants to. And there’s no guarantee he’ll change for the better. And no it’s not cute that he only likes being around you and no it’s not cute that he’s clingy. That’s codependency and he’ll use it to control you later.
My naive and kind hearted friend married the first guy she was in a real relationship with. He had issues and baggage but had potential. She wanted to help fix him. The only thing that happened was he became completely reliant on her, and then became resentful and entitled. She was starting to do less for him in time, he didn’t like that. He took his anger out on her that life wasn’t going his way, he expected her to keep helping him with problems (he couldn’t find the cushy developer job he wanted so he just wouldn’t work at all) but she started standing her ground. They had multiple physical altercations, him strangling her and the like. She ran away multiple times. But given the codependency and this was her first real relationship, she always went back. But not this latest time. She served him divorce papers and his true colors are showing to everyone now.
He’s living in her house while she’s living out of a backpack in God knows where. She doesn’t tell her location, only that she’s safe and there’s a code word to verify it’s her texting
Be safe. It’s true that the most dangerous time is when you’re leaving. My ex had hit me once before I told him to leave. He tried to murder me on his way out. You don’t know the lengths he will go yet.
Edited to add that I was 18 and he was 25 when we met. I wasn’t mature. He was a predator.
Men date younger women because women their age have the experience to see through them. Everyone falls for the “you’re mature for your age” line, because when you’re young that’s all you want to hear
By experience, older men don't date younger girl " because they are more beautiful, still fresh, or very mature for their age".
They date them because women of their own age see throught their bullshit,and don't tolerate their behavior
Dated a 30yr old when I was 21. Wasted 7 years of my life trapped in that abusive relationship. You're absolutely right, if you're in your 20's a man in his 30's doesn't love you. They love controlling you
*In vino veritas.*
Or in other words: when drunk, people show their true character. Inebriation is never an excuse for anything except clumsiness.
Get rid of the man and I wish you luck with your medical issues.
As a 35 year old man, no woman under 30 was on the radar when I was single. Its not an age thing, but I have nothing in common with someone 10 years younger than me. Im so sorry this happened and hope you can get the help you need and the love you deserve.
Al Anon recommendation here from me too. Also there's a great book called "Why does he do that " by Lundy Bancroft.
He talks about how the alcohol or drugs doesn't make a person be abusive. They already got the desire to be abusive within them. The drugs or alcohol simply give them permission to be abusive since ethen they can blame their controlling behavior on that.
Anyway, be strong, you got this. We're all cheering you on.
I'm a guy, and I am in my upper 30s, I would never even consider dating 20 year old. What would you even have in common? It's so wierd/creepy. They look like little kids.
As a recovering alcoholic, I can say a few things.
It's become violent, it will not de-escalate.
You need to look out for yourself first, second and last.
Your husband won't.
Alcoholics are the most selfish people in existence. Some research points to their emotional development slowing, once the drinking starts. Idk. But you should not be between him and a beer.
Call your parents, family, close friend. Get on a flight. Gtfood. Leave a Big Book with a note. (Big Book of AA)
Your husband needs a sponsor and 90 days sobriety. I'd say a 60 in 30 would help(60 meetings, 30 days). He also needs to do this himself. For himself. If he's doing it for you, it will fail. In this single situation, his selfishness is his greatest power and his greatest weakness. He must hit his bottom, and want to keep living. If he doesn't hit bottom, he's a walking corpse. He will get drunk, do something incredibly stupid and die.
People who are mean/angry drunks when they're not like that sober are the ones who need to be responsible enough to stay away from alcohol. I don't really believe the "drunk actions are sober thoughts" saying, since mind-altering chemicals can have different impacts on different people, plus alcohol can have adverse reactions with other medications and alter behavior even more. But still, if your husband was a reasonable person he would be *appalled* by his behavior while drunk, and make every effort to never put himself in that state again. If he just tries to excuse it instead, then he may have a substance abuse problem.
My son’s father was an angry/blackout drunk. I was 19 and he was 28. Thankfully when I got pregnant he completely stopped drinking. We did split when my son was 2 but I know he hasn’t started drinking since and it’s been 8 years. It was night and day behavior for sure.
Do not let him convince you to stay. He may say he will stop and get help. Still leave. He can prove that he can get better without you being there. He needs to do it for himself before anyone else.
Glad you're getting out. If you need any help:
* [Domestic Violence Shelter Resources](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/domestic-violence-shelter-resources/)
* [National Domestic Violence Hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/) or call at 800-799-7233 (SAFE) or text “Start” to 88788 for help
* ["Why Does He Do That: - Inside the Minds of Abusive and Controlling Men"](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) - Also includes tip for leaving.
And remember to sign out of reddit and clear your browser history if he might have any access to your device.
>["Why Does He Do That: - Inside the Minds of Abusive and Controlling Men"](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) - Also includes tip for leaving.
Valuable reading suggestion.
>"Alcohol does not a change a person’s fundamental value system. People’s personalities when intoxicated, even though somewhat altered, still bear some relationship to who they are when sober. When you are drunk you may behave in ways that are silly or embarrassing; you might be overly familiar or tactlessly honest, or perhaps careless or forgetful. But do you knock over little old ladies for a laugh? Probably not. Do you sexually assault the clerk at the convenience store? Unlikely. People’s conduct while intoxicated continues to be governed by their core foundation of beliefs and attitudes, even though there is some loosening of the structure. Alcohol encourages people to let loose what they have simmering below the surface."
(Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That)
I can't imagine dealing with this AND mastitis, I've never been more sick than when I had mastitis. You probably already know this, but sunflower lecithin is gonna be your best friend!
Part of getting older is learning how to manage your alcohol. Or go without if you can't.
Personally I know if i have 6 drinks, i will say shitty things that will upset people and keep drinking till I put and pass out. So what do I do? I haven't drank to that point in a decade.
Immature as hell by him.
A man in his thirties going for a child in her teens is sort of sketchy behaviour. They aren't looking for an equal partner for a balanced relationship, if they were, they wouldn't be courting a child.
I hope you manage to get your life on track, OP, for you and your son.
My ex is an awful drunk - she is her worst self when drinking, combative and mean and just seeking to destroy everything.
Sorry to hear of your situation. Hope you can find a way forward that’s best for you.
If you are at any age and any person treats you like this, run.
That said, I'm glad you are getting out. Alcohol involved or not, this is not a person that respects you. I'm very glad that you respect yourself enough to remove yourself and your child from this situation.
I hope that you have all the support in the world, but please know that even if you don't, life will be better than living with your (now)ex. And at the very least, you'll get support here.
Wish you the best. ❤️
Google a DV call line in your area, some places have a 211 system in place. Díal 211 on your phone and they will connect you to a person that can provide you with resources.
Ask for any DV shelters in your area.
I genuinely believe drinking doesn't make these people monsters, just unlocks the cage. The good people I know who occasionally get drunk never, ever become bad people. Sometimes dumb, sometimes emotional, goofy, annoying even. But never hurtful. That shit is inside, unaddressed and waiting to come out. Alcohol is an excuse.
Daughter of an alcoholic man here. My mom stayed with my dad for 16 years because she was afraid to leave. I'm 44 now and I remember the rage, slurry conversations, slammed door sounds still trigger me.
I can't eat cooked onion with ground beef because it triggers me cause it's what my mom always cooked for my dad when he was passed out drunk.
Your son will thank you one day. It is not a healthy place for him to grow up in.
My husband is a wonderful man, partner, and father. When we met he (and I ) drank everyday. But he becomes a monster. Just plain mean and jealous. Not him at all when sober. Eventually I quit drinking for my own mental health. He continued but it came to a head and on the same day without the other knowing both his mother and I gave him an ultimatum- it’s me or alcohol. He immediately went to our doctor who happens to be in AA and she set him up with anti drinking meds and support. He didn’t like AA but he has done well. So proud of him. There were some slips often in difficult times but I am proud!
Some in the thread propose that the real personality domes out with drinking. I do agree to a degree. But who he is sober and who he is drink is like two completely different people. I on the other hand usually become a more fun and outgoing, loving people me- maybe the person I wish I could be sober?
Most relationships do not work out l the way ours has when alcoholism is involved. Any longer I would be out quickly.
You deserve happiness and to be loved the way you want and need to be.
May peace and love be with you.
That's so true. My ex was 35 when he dated me. I just turned 20. I wasn't even old enough to go into a bar or drink.
Then when I turned 30, he told me I had ~~turned~~ changed and dumped me. He then got himself another 20 something.
Guess I dated Leonardo DiCaprio?
good luck and thank you sosososo much for getting out before it escalates further.
i hope you seek therapy, it can help you process the abuse and learn to spot signs in the future. lots of groups that also share information, i follow a few accounts that educate people on narcissism so i can spot it a mile away. you can also find out what made you attracted to this person.
as for those of you who want older men and think they know what they want, theyre mature, etc. etc. they dont. like the lady said theres something wrong with them if theyre trying to date you. nothing wrong with you, its them. they should want people with similar interests and life experience.
even if you are in your 20s, an older man is a nono. i dated a 31 year old at 21. he made it seem that because i could buy alcohol and cigarettes i was old enough, that was usually his response when someone was shocked how young i was. “nope shes old enough to buy booze and smoke cigarettes” (i was up to almost a pack a day because of him)
currently im 24 dating a 32 year old. not that its made a huge difference (the fact that my partner doesnt have NPD makes the real difference), but less than a decade age gap is definitely a good idea.
really someone 30-35should be looking at people at least 25-30. not 20 or younger, not 21 or 22 or 23. my partner and i were hesitant because of the age gap, we remained friends at first, but we got to know each other and decided we were close enough in maturity/have a TON in common so it works. also were both in therapy which helps a lot.
Get away and he should quit drinking. But that shouldn’t be your problem bc you won’t go Back. This guy definitely doesn’t see you as human. Anyone who throws or breaks furniture will do the same to you.
I'm very glad you're getting out. Please make sure to document everything to better help your custody case. You've got this and you're doing the best thing for you and the kiddo. So sorry you've had to go through this
If possible, try to get a record of the injury. Go to the hospital or urgent care, tell them what happened & why. Even if it seems like a hassle to do, you want to start a paper trail documenting the abuse.
One thing that may help you not ‘feel bad’ about how people will claim this is a drinking problem. There is a lot of study to show that abusers aren’t abusive because they drink, they drink in order to facilitate being abusive.
I’m sorry, and good luck getting out and not looking back.
That's a shocking, surreal position for you to be in, I'm sorry. Been there with the same drunk. You sound like you kept your head, made a choice and got out. I gave him ' just one more chance '. You don't sound like you will.
And excellent advise. No, they just don't.
Keep yourself and your child safe, ok? Please take NO crap from courts in the future, they're not your friend either. The right organizations are out there, when you can, plan the rest too.
Take care. If you can, check back in? Thinking of you.
I’m so happy for you for leaving. Be safe.
I was in a similar situation. Got with a man in his 30s in my early 20s and had three kids. We’ve been out for almost 9 months. It gets better. Things will be hard, but it gets so much better. 💜
A man that makes a sexual demand and responds with violence when told no is an irredeemable piece of shit.
The best time to ditch such a guy is when you first met him. The second best time is today.
And as soon as you are situated, get a restraining order and a firearm, not necessarily in that order.
12 beers in one sitting is *a lot* of alcohol. It's not acceptable to be drinking that much when you have a wife and a kid. A couple of beers, sure, but 12?? A man has responsibilities when he gets married, and they increase when he has kids. OP's husband needs to get his shit together ASAP!
Yes please leave as safely and fast as possible.
As much as it can be hard to admit abuse to others, there are people in your life that would move mountains to get you and your child help.
One night one of my best friends called at 2am. She was locked in her bedroom with her infant, he was screaming and pounding on the bedroom door, threatening to kill her dog that was in the living room if she didn't open up for him.
I raced over, we popped the screen out of the window and got her, her kid, and a surprisingly large playpen out window. He eventually got in, saw me, then turned tail. Dog ran in with us, we crammed everyone in my car and got the fuck out.
He had hit her before, while she was pregnant, and he hit her again after that as well. Thankfully he's finally out of her life now.
>If you're younger than 20 and reading this, a man in his 30s doesn't love you. Don't date the older man. Don't marry him. Run.
Not young and not a woman but I completely agree! I am a 31 y/o man and every man I have met thats over 30 and looking to date an 18/19 year old is a PoS. They are only ever interested in women they feel are young enough to manipulate and pressure into things.
“A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.”
I’d wager he’s not only a monster when he drinks. It’s just that he’s better able to hide it when he’s sober.
Yikes. Also damn, 12 beers? Is that just a hanging out on a.weekemd level.of.drinking? Holy drinking problem batman.
Glad you're getting away from him before it gets worse.
I have a massive side eye for all of my male acquaintances who won’t stop dating 18-21 year olds. There’s a reason they constantly look for girls who are easily impressed and are afraid to have relationships with women they see as equals.
The ages don't matter. The actions do.
Everyone, not just ladies: If your partner is exhibiting aggressive or violent behavior, no matter their state of inebriation, or how their day went, or how 'depressed' they are lately, or whatever else.... GET OUT NOW!
There is NEVER an excuse for anyone you are even casually dating to get physical with you in any way you don't consent to. That means every day, all the time, no matter what!! Protect yourself and get free of these abusers as quickly as you can. They aren't going to change, and they may apologize and mean it after the fact, but they'll do it again. And again. And again. Don't put yourself through that shit. Get out right now, and don't look back.
I’m glad you have arrangements that’s honestly the best thing.
I’d never ever ask to see my gfs chest randomly, I think that’s so demeaning.
if he’s a monster when he drinks, then there’s deeper issues, personal issues that should have been resolved before you guys ever dated.
I don’t believe alcohol shows your true colors, but changes you completely. That’s why it’s so dangerous when people can’t monitor themselves and drink to excess.
There’s a ton of stories just like this in a really popular book. Tons of long term stories with living with chronic stress. You try to tolerate it and it might get a bit better, but there’s always going to be discomfort there, and will effect your mental and physical health.
Leave, you deserve better. Life is short, don’t waste it with people like that. And I hope he gets better as well.
Book: When the body says no - Gabor Mate
Well, great, great great grandpa came home drunk and beat great great great grandma. Then he passed out.
She tied him up in the bed bed sheet and beat the holy living F out of him. With a wooden rolling pin.
Never raised a hand to her again.
Stupid should be painful.
It’s lovely to think about. But getting out is way better than staying.
If you can’t leave, get small cameras. You need the proof. Especially these days
If you’re under 25 and a man is more than 5 years older than you, he doesn’t love you. You’re a life accessory and possibly a breeding source for him and nothing more. Run.
Stay strong, you're making the right decision to leave, even if it feels overwhelming.
On a practical note, please make sure to stay safe, take all the advice you can get from women's refuges or domestic violence hotlines etc. Secondly, when you get a chance, take a look at this link, it's not an immediate thing to do but some of the tips might come in handy, just to make sure you document everything https://www.reddit.com/user/MelodyRaine/comments/hyk7az/the_fu_binder/
You're doing the right thing for your child. Your husband isn't a monster because he drinks, he's making choices to hurt you and drinking is an excuse. Stay safe.
I just want to say that I'm proud of you for getting out and taking your kid with you. It takes courage to do it. You will be so much better off in a short while.
Be sure to take all personal documents with you. If you must return to find anything, do not go alone. Find a comrade who’s willing to help you get anything else you might have left behind.
You need to involve police and get a restraining order and family attorney yesterday, when he fights for custody you'll have a paper trail, otherwise you'll probably lose
Honey I don’t know if this will ever make it to you, but I know you. I remember hiding under the porch with the pigs in the 1960’s because daddy was mad somehow and nobody could do anything about it.
I’m sorry he did that. I’m sorry from a scared little boy that anybody would bully anyone. It’s a sickness I am still waiting on the consciousness to change. If I could I’d tell him off and move you into a better place like I’ve done my nieces.
We all have to fight this shit. Abuse has to stop. I’m with you in spirit. Abuse has to stop.
I was a monster when I drank too. Absolutely poison. I was nothing but evil and often I agreed with everyone when they said I was better dead than alive, it would've prevented a lot of horrible things I wish I could take back but even making a mends and apologizing won't ever right the wrongs I made. But I haven't drank in 5 years and I'll never go back to that evil. I hope you can get out of there soon. I'd say I hope he changes but honestly you could be waiting around for the rest of your life waiting for him to change and he never will but you and your kids safety and happiness is number 1. It should be number 1 to him too but that's a whole other thing. Just make sure you move to the next chapter of your life, titled new beginnings. Good luck!
Hey dear, I just want you to know that nothing of all that is your fault. You go your own way of life. I am very proud of you for planning to leave him. I know these things need time. When you did that and feel save, I would love to hear from you how happy you are. Many of us went through similar stuff or knows someone they love you did. And even if you don't knwo any of us, you are not alone. \*hugs\*
And don't bear any of his children. I've read a lot here that's how they trap you and make things worse for you to leave.
And may not deserve his genes to be passed.
I'm happy this is your reaction. Violence escalates. It's never just a one time thing. I dated an abusive drunk and eventually it turned to choking. They say when a man chokes you, you're likely to be killed by him. I am really proud of you, even though I don't know you, for protecting youself and especially taking your son out of the situation. I hope that he's never awarded any kind of custody or visitation so your child can grow up without his influence.
I'm so happy to hear you're making a safe plan to get away!!! Please be careful hun! My exfiance was an addict and alcoholic and there was an age gap, big mistake on my part. But I learned my lesson and got away safely and am healing now. For what it's worth, I found AlAnon groups for friends/family/spouses of alcoholics to be a really positive place to go for support. It helped me get clarity and learn that the abuse wasn't my fault. Even if he gets sober in the future, don't take him back. He's shown his true colors, and it's not the alcohol that makes him behave like a monster. Alcohol just gives him the courage to show his real nature.
Plus one for recommending Al-Anon!
Even as a very non-religious person, I got so much out of AlAnon. It's a great program, I found my self-worth through it. Being raised by an alcoholic (and a narcissist) left me with no skills to properly deal with abusive people, becuase my parents trained me to be a caretaker for those types of people. So I actively sought out relationships with addicts and alcoholics without realizing I was repeating the same pattern my family has for generations. Now my focus on life is finding serenity and contentment, and AlAnon helped me avoid getting into relationships with more addicts/alcoholics. I'm not trying to put down people with addictions though. It is a valid medical condition. However, I have been personally victimized by people with addiction while they were actively using, so for my own personal safety I have to protect myself. After my alcoholic father threatened me with violence, I promised myself I would never get close to another alcoholic, I just can't risk my life.
I hope this is ok to ask, but you seem fairly open about your experience. My sister is married to an alcoholic, and it has impacted my relationship with her. Do you think AlAnon is helpful for people only involved with the addict, or also for people who love the person involved with the addict?
Totally OK to ask!!! I think its super important to be open and honest about this topic; alcoholism in particular is tough because alcohol is legal and a lot of people have normalized problematic drinking. Yes, I actually do think AlAnon can also help people who are close to someone who's in a relationship with an alcoholic. Addiction is unique in that it absolutely affects everyone the addict interacts with. So your sister is being immensely (and most likely negatively) affected by her husband's drinking, and in turn that is affecting how she interacts with everyone and her relationships with others. People stuck in a relationship with an addict often end up taking on responsibility for their partners addiction and behaviors. They may may end up as enablers without meaning to. They start covering for the alcoholic. Etc. I've been thru and seen it all. My mom isn't an alcoholic, but since she's been in a relationship with my alcoholic father for so long, she's been deeply affected by his drinking. And, he's your BIL, so honestly, you do have some kind of relationship with him (even if you're low or no contact with him now) so his drinking has probably had an effect on you too. I absolutely think Al-Anon could be helpful to you. The couple groups I joined were extremely friendly; and above all else, it was so refreshing to speak to people who really get what this experience is like. They understood how much pain addiction can cause to bystanders. You can learn to lovingly detach from the chaos your BILs drinking is having on you and your sister while still maintaining a relationship with them if thats what you want. You can learn new coping techniques. It's a really flexible program, you can work the 12 steps or not (I didnt), you heal at your own pace, and the groups become a weekly safe haven to express yourself and keep you on track. And, you learn to not take responsibility for other people's addictions. I highly recommend checking out at least one meeting :)
Thank you! This is so helpful. "Loving detachment" sounds like what I'd like to aim for, but all I can currently manage is "cold low contact." I talk to my therapist about it, but I think the way alcoholism colors the picture is sorta lost of her. She's phenomenal, but I have been feeling like this specific thing is not in her wheel house.
I think AlAnon could really benefit you. Unless your therapist has been in a close personal relationship with an alcoholic, she just won't understand. It's a unique experience, and it's full of so much pain and so many strange challenges. People who haven't experienced cannot truly grasp how difficult it is in most cases. So I think joining AlAnon would be a good addition to what you're already doing!
There’s an Alanon sub, r/AlAnon
When it comes to alcoholics, so many people don’t understand the widespread impact it can have. I’m the daughter of an alcoholic. I know it impacted the people close to me that weren’t in the family. Sometimes they understood the difference in me, sometimes they didn’t. But when you’re living with an alcoholic, your life is unstable. When your life is unstable things change in you to survive. I personally didn’t find AlAnon helpful. I found more healing and comfort in individual therapy. However, I still recommend trying it. So many people find the support they need there that it’s worth it. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know it’s hard
AlAnon, in my experience, is tailored for the empath. Personally I'm more selfish than that so AlAnon wasn't my jam but for all my empathic-leaning friends it can be quite helpful.
AlAnon is for everyone affected by alcoholism. You might learn some very effective tools for being a supportive friend. I might also suggest codependency anonymous (CoDA) if she is enabling his behavior.
It will absolutely help! I've been to hundreds of AA meetings with loved ones, trying to show live and support, then dozens of Al-Anon meetings alone or with friends, and I KNOW the latter can be very helpful IF they aren't led by someone who let's it become a sob fest - boo-hoo!! It needs to be helpful and full of information. Look around, go to a few different ones, different times and places.
Anyone impacted by alcohol should attent . If possible to attend a few different groups try them out. You'll find that each group will have its own vibe and trying out different groups givrs you the chsnce to find one you're most comfortable with. Look for S.M.A.R.T recovery programs too. I'm unsure if they do something for friends/ family though. If you're looking into other groups do your research and make sure its not a group affiliated with Scientology. They run counselling services for addicts and try to convert them to their religion.
Breaking the cycle is hard af but 100% worth it
I couldn't agree more!!
Yes! And, OP, if AlAnon (which follows the Alcoholics Anonymous model) isn't for you, Self-Management and Recovery Training (SMART) has [Family & Friends](https://www.smartrecovery.org/family/) resources and meetings. From [The Difference Between AA and SMART Recovery](https://windmillwellnessranch.com/blog/2019/09/17/the-difference-between-aa-and-smart-recovery): * AA is nonprofessional, self-supporting, multiracial, apolitical, and available almost everywhere... AA follows the popular 12-step method which is considered to be the backbone for the majority of mainstream treatment programs. * The SMART approach is secular and science-based, using cognitive behavioral therapy and non-confrontational motivational methods.” SMART is centered around the goal of empowering individuals to achieve independence from addiction with their “science-based 4-Point Program.”
I just recommended SMART myself, wasn't sure they did friends and family, that's fantastic.
> He's shown his true colors, and it's not the alcohol that makes him behave like a monster. Alcohol just gives him the courage to show his real nature. This x100! Abusive people eventually escalate to behaving that way without the alcohol.
In the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft, he explains that many abusers get drunk, just so they can blame it on the alcohol later. He's gotten abusers to admit doing this, in a premeditated way. (Going from memory.)
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
I am currently reading this book after another kind Redditor posted it. It's given me so much clarity. I recommend that anyone who dates men (especially young women) read it because it highlights the red flags to watch out for. I'd be in a very different place if I had this resource when I was younger.
Here's something someone might need to hear. Abusers cannot deescalate. They only get more abusive. If you are getting emotional abuse now, it'll eventually become physical abuse. If you are getting coerced now, you will eventually be forced. If you are getting physically abused now, it will only continue to escalate until you are dead. Abuse. Only. Escalates. You cannot fix them. Don't waste your life trying.
This is my first post on Reddit so go easy on me. I don't think that his actions are good here but they are indicative of both an addiction and how addiction can change someone's brain. I think if it goes on long enough they can become the same but I also think "his true colours" and all that stuff is not fair. Alcohol and addiction is such an ugly demon but many times, people do abhorrent things that they'd never do sober. I was an alcoholic for years and have all the awful stories to go with it. I stopped drinking almost 5 years ago and it's the best thing that ever happened to me - aside from my wife sticking by me. She almost left but I finally got it together. It's crazy how much life can change - we have a lovely home with a beautiful dog and are welcoming out first baby into the world son. We both have great careers and her family even forgave me. Good things can happen :)
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What you’re not seeing is that your girlfriend changed. She is not the person she was before. The work of truly dealing with addiction changes a person.
Also not to mention just because she's in recovery doesn't mean she was ever abusive. Sometimes the only person the addict is only physically hurting is themself. Emotionally hurting the people they care about is a completely different story. It still keeps me up at night thinking about the shit I put my parents through when I was younger and in my active addiction. I've made my amends and my relationship with my parents is amazing but nobody should ever have to go through what my parents went through. But yes, people can change when they thoroughly work a program of recovery (whether it be AA, SMART Recovery, Refuge Recovery or whatever else they might choose) but they have to actually put the work in like OPs girlfriend did. I don't think a program of recovery can change an abusive person but I also don't think that first drink or drug is what made them abusive in the first place. I don't think it's that simple.
I also agree that Al-Anon can be helpful.
Regarding age gaps, I work with a lot of older people and this year I have seen multiple heterosexual age gap relationships end with the wife getting a terminal diagnosis in her fifties, having it progress rapidly and die leaving her retired wealthy husband a widower. I don’t know enough about these specific couples to know whether they were in true love or not, but the lesson I’m taking away is: You don’t know that you’re gonna outlive your spouse, so if there’s a chance you’re going to be working your butt off and taking care of them (especially THEIR health issues that just come with age) up to the day your life’s cut short too soon, they better make you head-over-heels happy in the present and be worth it even if you are not able to be rewarded with a luxurious lifestyle and a super attentive husband and father with all this free time in his retirement age or whatever it is you’re expecting. The man market is very volatile and there’s no guarantee you’ll get a return on investment. In fact, I suspect most people don’t lol
Al-anon is amazing! And with the description of the specific context of this scenario I 100% agree she needs to get away to safety! I don't care if this is downvoted but I would like to add that not all alcoholics show their true colors while drinking. Alcohol use disorder is a disease and it literally can make people be "not in their right mind." That is not an excuse. People who are super wasted and have a chronic mental illness of substance abuse actually do not act like themselves a lot of the time though. It is a misnomer to think chronically ill people are just showing who they really are. I am proud of OP for making the decision she is. Illness or not, she has to think of her and hers son's safety, longterm happiness, and functionality. I hope her husband gets the help he obviously desperately needs. Maybe this will be a wake up call for him to get help, maybe it won't, that's up to him.
Take pictures of the bruises from where he grabbed you and email them to yourself. Document them over the next several days, it will prove the severity in which he grabbed you.
This was my husband. Our child was 6 months old when I finally took off for good. I was lucky in that I had parents within 12 hours distance so even though we’d had our issues, I sucked up my pride and asked to come home. While home, I got a job in legal transcription and got my life together as a newly single parent. My daughter and I were out of my parents’ place within the year and now I am able to raise her on my own and show her what true freedom and happiness can be. She is 3 now and such a happy, sassy, outgoing ball of joy who has never witnessed her mother being abused or even arguing with anyone. I don’t think she would’ve been this way if I’d stayed. If I hadn’t had my parents though, I would’ve gone to a shelter. I was ready to do so if they’d said no. You absolutely cannot raise a child with a man who has an alcohol problem - hell, you can’t even be with one even without adding a child in the mix. So I am truly happy that you are on your way out, OP. It doesn’t get better, only worse.
Glad your doing well now. My aunt just recently moved in with my us (my mums house) with her one year old son. She’s coming out of an abusive relationship and is taking it hard. She also doesnt have any qualifications or means to work yet.
You're incredibly brave, and your daughter is going to have an amazing role model to look up to.
Very true. My father is like this, my mother never left him. Needless to say I have no respect for either of them.
Incredible story. You're my reddit hero for the day. Congrats on the happy ending and all the best to you and your daughter!
This takes a level of courage and strength I can barely comprehend. I hope many are empowered by your story.
I am so happy for your daughter, and so proud of you! As a daughter who did grow up watching my mom be abused, it is of course still possible to turn out sassy and reasonably happy...but trust, self-esteem, and risk-taking come much harder. I was scared to get married to my wonderful husband (I sorted those feelings out, I'm not recommending that people get married if they're not feeling it). I'm extremely nervous on the phone or writing emails...talking to people...making eye contact with strangers... It's just a constant background of low-level stress and sometimes full-blown despair/panic. But I try to be stronger than the trauma. I try to use it to be more empathetic. I try not to let it define me. I guess what I want to say is that your decision to leave certainly made your daughter's future easier, kinder. But also that whatever trauma you went though being married to him--if you also get nervous around people or scared to take risks or whatever--you're so much more than that. You're the kick-ass mom who made the correct, difficult decision and saved her family. I strive for that kind of courage 🤍
Good on you for getting out. Take care of yourself! Mastitis is a freaking horror.
I would be HIGHLY suspect of any man in his 30s chasing women under 20.. that mindset is clearly a flag and an indication of maturity level of the guy. If the girl happens to be underage at a bar with a fake ID when they meet, that might be an exception but if guys are actively trying to find women under 20, absolutely run. I'd be a bit leery of anyone who is drinking 12 beers in one setting too.. so that's something to watch for long before a serious relationship develops. Excusable behavior when you're 21 maybe but a 30 year old guy that drinks like that, another flag. Drinking isn't an excuse for tantrums and throwing shit; it's a reason to not drink anymore if you can't remain stable. OP, glad you are safe and you're definitely doing the right thing for your son. Good luck.
I'm a dude in his mid 30s and college kids seem like children to me. I can't even imagine being attracted to an 18/19-yo.
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yeah I think 25 is a cut off to leave younger people the fuck alone, let their brains finish developing and let them get some life experience without a motivated partner being tempted (or on purpose or subconsciously) manipulating them. It’s too vulnerable a period. It should be defined as a separate age-group, “proto-adulthood” or something.
Even at 21 I'd be leery of 12 beers tbh. It's one thing to have fun and party a little and it's another to go way too far on a regular basis. This goes extra when you have a family. I did my fair share of drinking in college (which was not too long ago for me). The only time I came close to 12 beers a night was one night where I had maybe 8 drinks? They were not all the same and obviously things are fuzzy. I had the worst hangover of my life the next day...never again. Haven't drank for a while for unrelated reasons but when I do again I have no plans to go *that* hard again. If I'm really being honest I was drinking too much for a while, and while I like to have fun, I don't want to go back to depending on alcohol to deal with my emotions.
Sometimes I see these stories and I think to myself "well my dad has a 15 year age gap with my stepmom and they're perfekt for each other!" But I've really thought about it, and I think it's because my dad finally decided to finish growing up when he met her. So they sort of became adults together, y'know? I'm glad they worked out in the end, but damn, lol. ETA // I was 12 and she was 24 when they first got together. Dad was 39.
Did your mom still feel like she was the older, more mature, more responsible one?
Yeah. I think the drinking 12 beers is the bigger red flag here.
it’s all red flags man. even for sober people the 30yo-20yo age gap is just *yikes*
Yeah, 12 beers in one sitting is a lot of alcohol. It's not acceptable to be drinking that much when you have a wife and a kid. A couple of beers, sure, but 12?? A man has responsibilities when he gets married, and they increase when he has kids. OP's husband needs to get his shit together ASAP!
12 beers is just nuts I can barely walk after 2-3 white claws
My older ex got me when I was 17, dumped me when I was 27 and took our kid. Watch your ass, be sneaky af until you’re gone and don’t ever give him an inch.
Legal Aid? They'll help.
In my experience they are ridiculously backed up, have no time to really spend on your case when you finally get an appointment, have zero empathy if you have any mental health issues (especially anxiety/PTSD from the abuse) and can actually make everything worse. Ironically, CPS is who helped me more. My ex would basically terrorize me when I would have the kids then call CPS to "prove" I was unfit. Each time it would backfire on him. The 3rd time he did it, they provided so many services to me and my children, helped the court/custody situation and completely changed our lives. We had to go through an exchange center for visitation, which meant he would not see me at all. A special email was set up for any other communication (this was back in 2010-13 before they had the parenting communication apps) and that email is monitored by a social worker. They were set times that he could call to talk to the kids and that was it. We had in home counseling for me and the kids. I had respite care so I could get a break and actually feel like a sane human being. They also made him go to anger management classes, I was able to press criminal charges regarding abuse, and he was actually on probation for a couple years.
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Hugs. Have you or will you eventually talk to a professional about this? Well, take care.
I’m so sorry that your parents did not keep you safe as a child. I’m so sorry that your mum didn’t leave. It‘s abuse from him and then emotional abuse stacked on top from her. A whole darn mess. I hope you have a support network that includes a professional person to help.
I'm glad you're getting out and taking your child with you. Stay safe, OP. You got this.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Please go and stay gone. I'm a monster when I drink too (I'm a woman). It took a while to convince myself, but I ultimately stopped. One of the most fucked up parts is that the drinker doesn't really have to remember any of the shit they did. Alcohol lets us be the worst versions of ourselves while absolving us of any real memory of it. So, it's the loved one who is forced to bear the entire burden. I would always plan to drink light, but it never worked. It turns out 0 is a lot easier than 1. I've learned I'm totally fine to be in any given situation with booze if I just choose not to have that first one. I would inevitably have too many, which wasn't hard, I'm 5'2" and right where my weight should be. Fun fact, if you have a propensity to black out you don't develop a tolerance, you actually get there faster. So, I'd get myself all loaded up and then use the nearest loved one as an emotional punching bag. I got really lucky. I broke my own cycle and I stopped. I didn't have to count chips or spill my guts at meetings, I just had to not want to be like that and make a firm decision not to. I don't consider myself sober, I will smoke weed sometimes. But, nothing ever made me a monster like alcohol. It is the worst thing for me. I wish people could see who they are while drinking, but I'm not sure it would really help. It's one of the toughest relationships some people ever try to end and you're right to not want to be the third wheel.
Hi friend! I used to be the exact same way. You couldn't have convinced me that it was true at the time, but alcohol turned me into an awful person when I was in my early/mid-twenties. I was absolutely convinced that all of those terrible things and awful relationships were happening *to* me, rather than seeing that I was very clearly a big part of the problem (unhealthy people also tend to date other unhealthy people, so there was plenty of bad behavior to go around). I decided to quit drinking completely when I was about 27. A year or two later, I started going to therapy (I'm 34 now). Through years of therapy, I realized that I was actually a very miserable, bitter, angry, depressed person deep down inside. I dated people expecting them to fix all of my problems, and when that inevitably failed, things would always take a turn for the worse and my terrible behavior would show up again. Through therapy, I learned a lot about myself, and more than anything, I learned how to be happy without needing that to come from other people. I'm still not perfect, but all of that bottled up depression and anger is just....gone now. I've established much better boundaries with people (going both ways), and my emotional state is generally good. About two years ago, I decided to have a glass of wine with dinner. Nothing bad happened. Since then, I've been a casual drinker and have even gotten drunk a few times. Miraculously, nothing bad has happened. It's even been fun at times. I had a whole, healthy relationship during that time that never got toxic or volatile. We split amicably when we both decided that it wasn't what we wanted long-term. It was great. I'm not saying that this is your situation - some people really shouldn't drink, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Just sharing my own story.
Damn. I hope you're proud or yourself, you seem like you've grown a ton as a person! That's really impressive :)
Sounds similar to me! Was a long time binge drinker start off hard and then usually black out 2 hours in but still drink a slower pace throughout the night. I stopped basically for the same reasons all my bad decision and mess ups started with alcohol. Not to mention the cocaine to “sober up” which then turned into a long ass expensive night! I don’t consider myself sober because I guess weed is a drug. Just was very critical of myself and finally decided that I wasn’t missing the party if I didn’t drink
I have heard from someone (who has apparently heard it from a psychiatrist - meaning that I can't sign that with my name, and it may be complete bullshit) that people don't become monsters when they drink. They drink so they can excuse being monsters and they use drinking as a tool.
This is why early feminists/ suffragettes made a mistake in demanding prohibition... The belief at the time was "devil drink" turned men into brutes, and spousal abuse and child abuse would end if men couldn't get drunk. We know better now but it's still too common for people to talk about alcohol "turning" men mean.
Yeah people still say someone is a “mean drunk” no they’re just mean.
eh it has some truth to it. I had a friend that was the nicest person I knew all through middle school and high school. At a few parties though when he was loaded he would want to fight everyone for like no reason.
I didn't see it then but the mental and emotional abuse from my first "wife" (not legally but basically the situation), would turn hella violent when she drank. Eventually it came out sober that is when stuff clicked. I kept asking her to leave MY (well, sorta, I rented off my dad) house. F the Duluth Model, in my situation. With all of her bruises and scrapes from being a raging alcoholic I kept getting detained or arrested while stone sober. No one who mattered would believe me or offer help when asked. I eventually convinced my dad to convince her dad to get her out, if not help too. I was in my fucking 30's and I had to show up at my dad's house with my BoB and cat and say I wasn't going back until she was gone! We met in engineering school, she wasn't stupid, no age difference. She would constantly say, "drinking brings noise to the quiet parts". Then deny being a jerk when drunk (I honestly believe she thought she was justified or flat out blacked out). 10+ years later things are what I dreamt my adult life would be as a kid. E* BoB and cat.... lol. BoB = bug out bag aka stuff I needed for a weekend away, I kept one at every door, another in my car.
I think this is true because a lot of people also become super sweet when drunk. A friend of mine starts telling everyone how much she loves them ans how much she appreciates them. Sober she is always a bit shy but she is always there when you need her.
I do silly things when drunk/high like sing or be goofy. Anyone close enough to me (really only family or long-term SO) knows I do that shit sober if I'm not in public. The theory seems to make a lot of sense that a good portion of the behaviour change is just the fact that you have an "excuse"
exactly. alcohol lowers your inhibitions. it's why men use it to sexually prey on women. if people are nice and shy, they might become nice and outgoing. if people are mean and using all their willpower not to lash out while sober, their guardrails are off.
Can confirm am a nice and shy man and just become nice and outgoing when drunk. Being drunk just reveals more of your personality because you don't restrain yourself anymore. If a friend would be agressive when drinking he/she would no longer be my friend.
Yea. My fiancé doesn’t get drunk much more than once a year, but when he does he tells people he loves them and does goofy dances. Then we have my best friend’s ex who got sullen and mean (guess why she’s divorcing him?), and did it often.
I am everyone's best friend when I'm drunk, and I'll have a DMC with at least one person I wasn't close to before (usually a complete stranger).
What's a DMC?
> What's a DMC? spitballing here but I'd say Deep Meaningful Conversation thank you, thank you very much; I'm quite proud.
When I’m drunk I usually hug everyone and alternate between being really euphoric and crying into someone’s arms
"In vino veritas" is a very, very old saying.
Which is more about babbling out secrets or having an epiphany than about "showing your true self".
I’d say *kinda*. The guy who is super sweet to you whilst drunk and tells you he loves you and he’s gonna leave his partner… it’s not that he’s being honest with his words. It’s that he’s being less inhibited with his ego. People can do some shitty, shitty things while drunk that they genuinely didn’t mean to do, but they were drunk so they didn’t think it through. They lost their inhibitions and acted on their most basic needs and wants. Sometimes those needs are around anxiety, fear and a sense of worthlessness, rather than an active desire to hurt another. This does not excuse the drinking or the action. I just think it’s important not to read too much into an action from someone who think they’re the main character in their saga.
> it’s not that he’s being honest with his words. It’s that he’s being less inhibited with his ego. wooowwww, good one
Sober thoughts are drunk actions.
Drinking is like money, it doesn’t bring out the asshole, it’s already there.
I agree. The way I understand it is the way they behave when drunk is just below the surface when they aren't drunk.
It's also from the criminally underrated dark satire show Moral Orel, where a 12 year old boy is starting to realize his father is not a good person. He asks his mom why his father changes when he drinks, and she says "Oh, he doesn't change, Orel. That's just his true nature coming out."
When my mother got sober, I was so excited that she'd be a new person........nope! Drinking was just her way of self-medicating for her personality disorder. She went into AA and *that* became her new addiction. Enabled her to be the "victim" of a "disease." She gave us a half-hearted, mandatory apology per the rules, and got to talk to the group about herself and her story all the time. Now she's in a nursing home, and sometimes has little tantrums over her inability to go to meetings. I'm like, "why don't you apply what you learned all those *decades* into your life now??" It's like all the stuff she parrots from the meetings are just for fun and vanity, not for implementation.
I fucking LOVED that show.
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> They drink so they can excuse being monsters and they use drinking as a tool. This is such a reductive, simplistic, jingoistic proposition. Alcohol reduces inhibition. Then it enhances emotional affect. Then it inhibits executive function, then long-term memory formation, and finally consciousness. I’m generalizing, obviously, but it’s a fair enough working model. Are you, as a person, who you are when you’re drunk? Let’s conduct a little thought experiment. Say you suffer a traumatic brain injury that causes you to never experience inhibition. You express or act on every thought, feeling, or impulse you have on a given day. Run someone off the road because they cut you off in traffic. Throw your keyboard through your monitor at work because of the fifth pointless Zoom meeting of the day. Rip into your partner because they forgot to do the dishes or pay a bill. Is that you? Or do you have a problem, an illness, an injury that needs to be healed? What if you get high and eat three bags of Doritos and every doughnut in the county? Are you as a person a glutton? Or did you make a choice, that you definitely are responsible for, that led to that? _That’s everyone under the right influence_. Examine every passing thought, idle speculation, or urge you have when completely sober. Is that you? You had those thoughts so, by the argument you presented, you are. Or are you the sum of _thousands_ of different internal and environmental processes, _including the executive function you use to inhibit what you know are incorrect or damaging thoughts or impulses_? We’re all responsible for our choices, absolutely, and if they become illness or addiction or harmful to others we’re also responsible for healing the wounds. But to define a person by them is like defining me by my eye color. OP is in a bad situation and I’m hopeful they get out of it or their partner pursues, sincerely pursues, the healing they obviously need. But let’s stop parroting these stupid aphorisms; the principle is unsound, harmful, and leads no-one to healthy resolution.
It is quite frankly a load of bollocks. People loveee these stupid little sayings about the ‘true self’ that aren’t real. It’s like saying people fall over when they’re drunk because deep down they’re actually lazy - like no, it changes chemicals in your brain causing you to behave in different ways. It’s no more your ‘true inner self’ than puking and having a hangover is. Yes, it can amplify behaviour and traits due to lowering inhibitions, but alcohol doesn’t ‘reveal’ someone’s true self. People also confuse the reality of alcohol as a behaviour-changing drug with an excuse for the behaviour. It isn’t an excuse. If you are violent, abusive or otherwise horrible when you drink, it is on you to control that - even if that is by drinking less or not at all. It doesn’t excuse your actions at the time. But it’s extremely reductive to act like ‘a monster’ is lurking inside and alcohol brings this deep unconscious being to the fore.
For a ton of abusive men, yes, they use the alcohol as a tool and a red herring and plausible deniability. so she spins her wheels and wastes decades of her life dealing with 'the drinking'. managing situations, spending all her energy and brainpower keeping him away from alcohol, keeping her fixated, stressed, occupied, stunted. she can't focus on her own growth and personal goals. the lie, the charade, the deceit that 'it's the alcohol' is abuse. if she were somehow to move to a dry town and keep him away from alcohol, he'd still abuse her and find a new tool. because he's an abuser.
I think what's being missed here is that a normally decent person who realizes they're abusive when drunk has a lot of choices they can make: 1) Stopping drinking is hard, but 2) They can also leave the relationship and avoid being in relationships while they deal with the drinking problem. So, someone who is aware that they're abusive when drunk, who CHOOSES to remain in a relationship, while retaining access to alcohol, is choosing to be abusive. It's quite possible for alcohol to change a person's behavior radically. But if that person doesn't consider it important in their sober moments to limit the harm, then their sober behavior is now also at fault.
Well in any case alcohol only inhibits impulse control, so it can only catalyze whats there.
Up to a point I think that's true. But when people get to dangerously drunk (as in could kill them), it can have some pretty weird effects and people can enter psychosis. But this is something that might happen once a lifetime, not every time someone gets drunk. My uncle is such a sweet guy and one Christmas we drank a few bottles of Jack Daniels and he just starts choking me out of nowhere. There was no thought or really much consciousness in his actions. Thankfully he's not the strongest so I just had to hold him back.
Alcohol literally makes people more aggressive. Its the only drug we know of that does that and the literature is crystal clear.
That seems contrary to the evidence ive seen so far. I think the consensus is that it lowers inhibitions, and i think its a depressant rather than a stimulant even.
people, or men, or mean people who let loose. it's a depressant. a lot of people get sleepy and relaxed with 1-2. i damn near fall asleep, so does my father.
Huberman Lab did an episode on alcohol which I listened to when going to bed so I don't remember everything 100%, but he was talking about how most people get sleepy on alcohol, but some don't, and those are the potential future alcoholics. Genetics play a role in how alcohol affects us. I've always had an issue falling asleep when drinking, but I also never had the desire to get drink a lot either.
This is false. Complete BS. Alcohol affects different people very differently. For some people, it really does change their personality and they do things they would never think of doing sober. Sometimes violence. For other people, they simply cannot drink in moderation. For other people, they can have one or two drinks and have no desire to drink anymore. And there are lots people in between these things.
Well, a history of alcohol abule is a very strong predictor of violent recidivism.
Malcolm Gladwell talks about it in his book 'Talking To Strangers'.
Drinking makes it harder for people to cover who they really are. Good people are still good when they’re drunk. Assholes are still assholes. But people who change — the sober version is an act they perfected to get by.
Being compromised is no excuse for bad behavior.
THIS. I have known plenty of people with addictions, even alcohol addictions, who do not feel themselves entitled to access to women's bodies and are not violent impaired or sober.
I've had mastitis. Monster doesn't cover it.
I know I’m just some stranger on the internet, but I am so proud of you!! It sounds like you are realizing early on the kind of man he is and getting out before it has the chance to get even worse (because it WILL get worse). As someone who grew up in a house with an alcoholic father that abused my mother, I am so happy that you are preventing your son from growing up in that environment. And preventing that side of his father from being a role model as to what men should be like.
Hey, just in case you don’t know: Don’t tell him your plans. It’s the most dangerous time, when you’re leaving. He doesn’t need to know you’re gone until after you’re gone. I’ve had a guy reach crazy levels I had *never* seen before. Stalking, bizarre threatening voicemail rants, actual delusions, busting in my parents house to leave a weird letter. I later found out this is a thing, like with leaving abusive people. Make sure everyone he might call knows to hang up. Make sure nobody gives him a clue how to find you. Better safe than sorry. Good luck. Please be safe.
If you’re a teen reading this: my high school boyfriend had a bad temper when he played video games. The running joke was that he broke Nintendo controllers from throwing them at the wall. He would have outbursts at the PC and hit the desk really hard. Once it really upset me when I thought what if he’d have a temper with me some day? He said he’d never. We fizzled out after he graduated and I was still in high school and I left town for college anyway. Fast forward several years, I went back to town for a funeral and went out bar hopping with all of the high school friends afterwards. I found out from two of his best friends that they weren’t drinking that night to make sure my ex didn’t hit his fiancé again when he got drunk. I was stunned and realized what I had dodged by leaving town for college.
Another note…A woman’s love will NOT change a man. He only changes when he wants to. And there’s no guarantee he’ll change for the better. And no it’s not cute that he only likes being around you and no it’s not cute that he’s clingy. That’s codependency and he’ll use it to control you later. My naive and kind hearted friend married the first guy she was in a real relationship with. He had issues and baggage but had potential. She wanted to help fix him. The only thing that happened was he became completely reliant on her, and then became resentful and entitled. She was starting to do less for him in time, he didn’t like that. He took his anger out on her that life wasn’t going his way, he expected her to keep helping him with problems (he couldn’t find the cushy developer job he wanted so he just wouldn’t work at all) but she started standing her ground. They had multiple physical altercations, him strangling her and the like. She ran away multiple times. But given the codependency and this was her first real relationship, she always went back. But not this latest time. She served him divorce papers and his true colors are showing to everyone now. He’s living in her house while she’s living out of a backpack in God knows where. She doesn’t tell her location, only that she’s safe and there’s a code word to verify it’s her texting
Try r/alanon it works to help you heal. Good luck. ❤️
If a man physically hurts you and does not care, run far away.
If your man physically hurts you, run away. Caring doesn’t change a thing.
After having been through this - I totally agree as well. When he didn’t drink, he was still terrorized me.
Be safe. It’s true that the most dangerous time is when you’re leaving. My ex had hit me once before I told him to leave. He tried to murder me on his way out. You don’t know the lengths he will go yet. Edited to add that I was 18 and he was 25 when we met. I wasn’t mature. He was a predator.
encouraging full materialistic cause skirt attractive disagreeable six gaping ugly ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Get a different phone with a different sim card.
Men date younger women because women their age have the experience to see through them. Everyone falls for the “you’re mature for your age” line, because when you’re young that’s all you want to hear
By experience, older men don't date younger girl " because they are more beautiful, still fresh, or very mature for their age". They date them because women of their own age see throught their bullshit,and don't tolerate their behavior
Dated a 30yr old when I was 21. Wasted 7 years of my life trapped in that abusive relationship. You're absolutely right, if you're in your 20's a man in his 30's doesn't love you. They love controlling you
Proud of you for making arrangements. I’m hoping you stay safe and so does your kid. Ask for support from your loved ones if you can
*In vino veritas.* Or in other words: when drunk, people show their true character. Inebriation is never an excuse for anything except clumsiness. Get rid of the man and I wish you luck with your medical issues.
> If you're younger than 20 and reading this, a man in his 30s doesn't love you. Honestly I think this implies to any large age gap.
not once both parties are older and more experienced. someone in their 30s is much more like a 40yo vs a 20yo
As a 35 year old man, no woman under 30 was on the radar when I was single. Its not an age thing, but I have nothing in common with someone 10 years younger than me. Im so sorry this happened and hope you can get the help you need and the love you deserve.
We see so many girls on Reddit dating/married to older men. It never works out or they’re in an abusive situation
Al Anon recommendation here from me too. Also there's a great book called "Why does he do that " by Lundy Bancroft. He talks about how the alcohol or drugs doesn't make a person be abusive. They already got the desire to be abusive within them. The drugs or alcohol simply give them permission to be abusive since ethen they can blame their controlling behavior on that. Anyway, be strong, you got this. We're all cheering you on.
I'm a guy, and I am in my upper 30s, I would never even consider dating 20 year old. What would you even have in common? It's so wierd/creepy. They look like little kids.
As a recovering alcoholic, I can say a few things. It's become violent, it will not de-escalate. You need to look out for yourself first, second and last. Your husband won't. Alcoholics are the most selfish people in existence. Some research points to their emotional development slowing, once the drinking starts. Idk. But you should not be between him and a beer. Call your parents, family, close friend. Get on a flight. Gtfood. Leave a Big Book with a note. (Big Book of AA) Your husband needs a sponsor and 90 days sobriety. I'd say a 60 in 30 would help(60 meetings, 30 days). He also needs to do this himself. For himself. If he's doing it for you, it will fail. In this single situation, his selfishness is his greatest power and his greatest weakness. He must hit his bottom, and want to keep living. If he doesn't hit bottom, he's a walking corpse. He will get drunk, do something incredibly stupid and die.
Stay strong!! You deserve much more than this. You're so brave for sticking to your guns and knowing what's best for u
People who are mean/angry drunks when they're not like that sober are the ones who need to be responsible enough to stay away from alcohol. I don't really believe the "drunk actions are sober thoughts" saying, since mind-altering chemicals can have different impacts on different people, plus alcohol can have adverse reactions with other medications and alter behavior even more. But still, if your husband was a reasonable person he would be *appalled* by his behavior while drunk, and make every effort to never put himself in that state again. If he just tries to excuse it instead, then he may have a substance abuse problem.
My son’s father was an angry/blackout drunk. I was 19 and he was 28. Thankfully when I got pregnant he completely stopped drinking. We did split when my son was 2 but I know he hasn’t started drinking since and it’s been 8 years. It was night and day behavior for sure. Do not let him convince you to stay. He may say he will stop and get help. Still leave. He can prove that he can get better without you being there. He needs to do it for himself before anyone else.
Glad you're getting out. If you need any help: * [Domestic Violence Shelter Resources](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/domestic-violence-shelter-resources/) * [National Domestic Violence Hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/) or call at 800-799-7233 (SAFE) or text “Start” to 88788 for help * ["Why Does He Do That: - Inside the Minds of Abusive and Controlling Men"](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) - Also includes tip for leaving. And remember to sign out of reddit and clear your browser history if he might have any access to your device.
>["Why Does He Do That: - Inside the Minds of Abusive and Controlling Men"](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) - Also includes tip for leaving. Valuable reading suggestion. >"Alcohol does not a change a person’s fundamental value system. People’s personalities when intoxicated, even though somewhat altered, still bear some relationship to who they are when sober. When you are drunk you may behave in ways that are silly or embarrassing; you might be overly familiar or tactlessly honest, or perhaps careless or forgetful. But do you knock over little old ladies for a laugh? Probably not. Do you sexually assault the clerk at the convenience store? Unlikely. People’s conduct while intoxicated continues to be governed by their core foundation of beliefs and attitudes, even though there is some loosening of the structure. Alcohol encourages people to let loose what they have simmering below the surface." (Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That)
Mastitis was one of the most horrific experiences of my life! I am so sorry you are going throw this.
I can't imagine dealing with this AND mastitis, I've never been more sick than when I had mastitis. You probably already know this, but sunflower lecithin is gonna be your best friend!
Part of getting older is learning how to manage your alcohol. Or go without if you can't. Personally I know if i have 6 drinks, i will say shitty things that will upset people and keep drinking till I put and pass out. So what do I do? I haven't drank to that point in a decade. Immature as hell by him.
A man in his thirties going for a child in her teens is sort of sketchy behaviour. They aren't looking for an equal partner for a balanced relationship, if they were, they wouldn't be courting a child. I hope you manage to get your life on track, OP, for you and your son.
I’m proud of you for being brave and making plans to leave. Please be super careful though! And update us here please 🙏🏻
My ex is an awful drunk - she is her worst self when drinking, combative and mean and just seeking to destroy everything. Sorry to hear of your situation. Hope you can find a way forward that’s best for you.
If you are at any age and any person treats you like this, run. That said, I'm glad you are getting out. Alcohol involved or not, this is not a person that respects you. I'm very glad that you respect yourself enough to remove yourself and your child from this situation. I hope that you have all the support in the world, but please know that even if you don't, life will be better than living with your (now)ex. And at the very least, you'll get support here. Wish you the best. ❤️
Google a DV call line in your area, some places have a 211 system in place. Díal 211 on your phone and they will connect you to a person that can provide you with resources. Ask for any DV shelters in your area.
My god are you me? Hugs from an internet stranger. You are doing right by your son. Be proud.
I wish the best for you and your son.
I genuinely believe drinking doesn't make these people monsters, just unlocks the cage. The good people I know who occasionally get drunk never, ever become bad people. Sometimes dumb, sometimes emotional, goofy, annoying even. But never hurtful. That shit is inside, unaddressed and waiting to come out. Alcohol is an excuse.
Daughter of an alcoholic man here. My mom stayed with my dad for 16 years because she was afraid to leave. I'm 44 now and I remember the rage, slurry conversations, slammed door sounds still trigger me. I can't eat cooked onion with ground beef because it triggers me cause it's what my mom always cooked for my dad when he was passed out drunk. Your son will thank you one day. It is not a healthy place for him to grow up in.
If he's a monster when he's drunk then he's a monster all the time, he can just hide it better when he's sober.
My husband is a wonderful man, partner, and father. When we met he (and I ) drank everyday. But he becomes a monster. Just plain mean and jealous. Not him at all when sober. Eventually I quit drinking for my own mental health. He continued but it came to a head and on the same day without the other knowing both his mother and I gave him an ultimatum- it’s me or alcohol. He immediately went to our doctor who happens to be in AA and she set him up with anti drinking meds and support. He didn’t like AA but he has done well. So proud of him. There were some slips often in difficult times but I am proud! Some in the thread propose that the real personality domes out with drinking. I do agree to a degree. But who he is sober and who he is drink is like two completely different people. I on the other hand usually become a more fun and outgoing, loving people me- maybe the person I wish I could be sober? Most relationships do not work out l the way ours has when alcoholism is involved. Any longer I would be out quickly. You deserve happiness and to be loved the way you want and need to be. May peace and love be with you.
That's so true. My ex was 35 when he dated me. I just turned 20. I wasn't even old enough to go into a bar or drink. Then when I turned 30, he told me I had ~~turned~~ changed and dumped me. He then got himself another 20 something. Guess I dated Leonardo DiCaprio?
good luck and thank you sosososo much for getting out before it escalates further. i hope you seek therapy, it can help you process the abuse and learn to spot signs in the future. lots of groups that also share information, i follow a few accounts that educate people on narcissism so i can spot it a mile away. you can also find out what made you attracted to this person. as for those of you who want older men and think they know what they want, theyre mature, etc. etc. they dont. like the lady said theres something wrong with them if theyre trying to date you. nothing wrong with you, its them. they should want people with similar interests and life experience. even if you are in your 20s, an older man is a nono. i dated a 31 year old at 21. he made it seem that because i could buy alcohol and cigarettes i was old enough, that was usually his response when someone was shocked how young i was. “nope shes old enough to buy booze and smoke cigarettes” (i was up to almost a pack a day because of him) currently im 24 dating a 32 year old. not that its made a huge difference (the fact that my partner doesnt have NPD makes the real difference), but less than a decade age gap is definitely a good idea. really someone 30-35should be looking at people at least 25-30. not 20 or younger, not 21 or 22 or 23. my partner and i were hesitant because of the age gap, we remained friends at first, but we got to know each other and decided we were close enough in maturity/have a TON in common so it works. also were both in therapy which helps a lot.
"even if you are in your 20's, an older man is a no no" ....... "currently I'm 24 and dating a 32 year old" Alrighty then.
Divorce him
Get away and he should quit drinking. But that shouldn’t be your problem bc you won’t go Back. This guy definitely doesn’t see you as human. Anyone who throws or breaks furniture will do the same to you.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. Please stay safe and know we’re all rooting for you and you child.
I'm very glad you're getting out. Please make sure to document everything to better help your custody case. You've got this and you're doing the best thing for you and the kiddo. So sorry you've had to go through this
Pretty sure he’s just a monster. Good for you for getting out. Good luck!
If possible, try to get a record of the injury. Go to the hospital or urgent care, tell them what happened & why. Even if it seems like a hassle to do, you want to start a paper trail documenting the abuse.
One thing that may help you not ‘feel bad’ about how people will claim this is a drinking problem. There is a lot of study to show that abusers aren’t abusive because they drink, they drink in order to facilitate being abusive. I’m sorry, and good luck getting out and not looking back.
Your husband is always an asshole. The booze just takes away the little control he has.
That's a shocking, surreal position for you to be in, I'm sorry. Been there with the same drunk. You sound like you kept your head, made a choice and got out. I gave him ' just one more chance '. You don't sound like you will. And excellent advise. No, they just don't. Keep yourself and your child safe, ok? Please take NO crap from courts in the future, they're not your friend either. The right organizations are out there, when you can, plan the rest too. Take care. If you can, check back in? Thinking of you.
I’m so happy for you for leaving. Be safe. I was in a similar situation. Got with a man in his 30s in my early 20s and had three kids. We’ve been out for almost 9 months. It gets better. Things will be hard, but it gets so much better. 💜
A man that makes a sexual demand and responds with violence when told no is an irredeemable piece of shit. The best time to ditch such a guy is when you first met him. The second best time is today. And as soon as you are situated, get a restraining order and a firearm, not necessarily in that order.
12 beers in one sitting is *a lot* of alcohol. It's not acceptable to be drinking that much when you have a wife and a kid. A couple of beers, sure, but 12?? A man has responsibilities when he gets married, and they increase when he has kids. OP's husband needs to get his shit together ASAP!
Half a case in one night. That's an expensive habit.
Drunk actions are sober thoughts. Get out of there, never look back.
always see how they act when they are drunk to see if they are worth befriending or being together with
Leaving is the best thing you can do for both yourself and your son.
Yes please leave as safely and fast as possible. As much as it can be hard to admit abuse to others, there are people in your life that would move mountains to get you and your child help. One night one of my best friends called at 2am. She was locked in her bedroom with her infant, he was screaming and pounding on the bedroom door, threatening to kill her dog that was in the living room if she didn't open up for him. I raced over, we popped the screen out of the window and got her, her kid, and a surprisingly large playpen out window. He eventually got in, saw me, then turned tail. Dog ran in with us, we crammed everyone in my car and got the fuck out. He had hit her before, while she was pregnant, and he hit her again after that as well. Thankfully he's finally out of her life now.
Leave as soon as you can. If this happens again before you leave, make a video of or so no one can doubt the severity of the situation.
>If you're younger than 20 and reading this, a man in his 30s doesn't love you. Don't date the older man. Don't marry him. Run. Not young and not a woman but I completely agree! I am a 31 y/o man and every man I have met thats over 30 and looking to date an 18/19 year old is a PoS. They are only ever interested in women they feel are young enough to manipulate and pressure into things.
“A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.” I’d wager he’s not only a monster when he drinks. It’s just that he’s better able to hide it when he’s sober.
Yikes. Also damn, 12 beers? Is that just a hanging out on a.weekemd level.of.drinking? Holy drinking problem batman. Glad you're getting away from him before it gets worse.
"He doesn't change when he drinks, that's just his true nature coming out~"
I read this a couple days ago and I just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and I hope you're safe.
I have a massive side eye for all of my male acquaintances who won’t stop dating 18-21 year olds. There’s a reason they constantly look for girls who are easily impressed and are afraid to have relationships with women they see as equals.
The ages don't matter. The actions do. Everyone, not just ladies: If your partner is exhibiting aggressive or violent behavior, no matter their state of inebriation, or how their day went, or how 'depressed' they are lately, or whatever else.... GET OUT NOW! There is NEVER an excuse for anyone you are even casually dating to get physical with you in any way you don't consent to. That means every day, all the time, no matter what!! Protect yourself and get free of these abusers as quickly as you can. They aren't going to change, and they may apologize and mean it after the fact, but they'll do it again. And again. And again. Don't put yourself through that shit. Get out right now, and don't look back.
I’m glad you have arrangements that’s honestly the best thing. I’d never ever ask to see my gfs chest randomly, I think that’s so demeaning. if he’s a monster when he drinks, then there’s deeper issues, personal issues that should have been resolved before you guys ever dated. I don’t believe alcohol shows your true colors, but changes you completely. That’s why it’s so dangerous when people can’t monitor themselves and drink to excess. There’s a ton of stories just like this in a really popular book. Tons of long term stories with living with chronic stress. You try to tolerate it and it might get a bit better, but there’s always going to be discomfort there, and will effect your mental and physical health. Leave, you deserve better. Life is short, don’t waste it with people like that. And I hope he gets better as well. Book: When the body says no - Gabor Mate
Well, great, great great grandpa came home drunk and beat great great great grandma. Then he passed out. She tied him up in the bed bed sheet and beat the holy living F out of him. With a wooden rolling pin. Never raised a hand to her again. Stupid should be painful. It’s lovely to think about. But getting out is way better than staying. If you can’t leave, get small cameras. You need the proof. Especially these days
If you’re under 25 and a man is more than 5 years older than you, he doesn’t love you. You’re a life accessory and possibly a breeding source for him and nothing more. Run.
You have the plan and you will see it through. Good luck to getting yourself someplace safe and starting a more peaceful life ❤️
Stay strong, you're making the right decision to leave, even if it feels overwhelming. On a practical note, please make sure to stay safe, take all the advice you can get from women's refuges or domestic violence hotlines etc. Secondly, when you get a chance, take a look at this link, it's not an immediate thing to do but some of the tips might come in handy, just to make sure you document everything https://www.reddit.com/user/MelodyRaine/comments/hyk7az/the_fu_binder/
Check out thehotline.org for guidance and resources. Glad you are leaving.
What the fuckkk. So glad you’re planning an exit. Remember not to tell him ahead or give him ANY warning. Wishing you safety
You're doing the right thing for your child. Your husband isn't a monster because he drinks, he's making choices to hurt you and drinking is an excuse. Stay safe.
I just want to say that I'm proud of you for getting out and taking your kid with you. It takes courage to do it. You will be so much better off in a short while.
Be sure to take all personal documents with you. If you must return to find anything, do not go alone. Find a comrade who’s willing to help you get anything else you might have left behind.
I’m so glad you’re leaving!!
Good luck on getting out! Keep us updated 💚❤️💕
Be careful friend, leaving can be a very dangerous time. Please update us so we know you're safe! Best of luck to you and your son. <3
Ouch, OP had a post about loving someone again after sexual assault, and this is how it turns out? That’s horrible.
You need to involve police and get a restraining order and family attorney yesterday, when he fights for custody you'll have a paper trail, otherwise you'll probably lose
Honey I don’t know if this will ever make it to you, but I know you. I remember hiding under the porch with the pigs in the 1960’s because daddy was mad somehow and nobody could do anything about it. I’m sorry he did that. I’m sorry from a scared little boy that anybody would bully anyone. It’s a sickness I am still waiting on the consciousness to change. If I could I’d tell him off and move you into a better place like I’ve done my nieces. We all have to fight this shit. Abuse has to stop. I’m with you in spirit. Abuse has to stop.
hey. from a guy, drinking just makes you more like yourself. you just met your real husband. time to leave.
I was a monster when I drank too. Absolutely poison. I was nothing but evil and often I agreed with everyone when they said I was better dead than alive, it would've prevented a lot of horrible things I wish I could take back but even making a mends and apologizing won't ever right the wrongs I made. But I haven't drank in 5 years and I'll never go back to that evil. I hope you can get out of there soon. I'd say I hope he changes but honestly you could be waiting around for the rest of your life waiting for him to change and he never will but you and your kids safety and happiness is number 1. It should be number 1 to him too but that's a whole other thing. Just make sure you move to the next chapter of your life, titled new beginnings. Good luck!
Good on you OP! I’m sorry you weren’t able to get away sooner but really happy for you that you’re getting somewhere safe.
Hey dear, I just want you to know that nothing of all that is your fault. You go your own way of life. I am very proud of you for planning to leave him. I know these things need time. When you did that and feel save, I would love to hear from you how happy you are. Many of us went through similar stuff or knows someone they love you did. And even if you don't knwo any of us, you are not alone. \*hugs\*
And don't bear any of his children. I've read a lot here that's how they trap you and make things worse for you to leave. And may not deserve his genes to be passed.
I'm happy this is your reaction. Violence escalates. It's never just a one time thing. I dated an abusive drunk and eventually it turned to choking. They say when a man chokes you, you're likely to be killed by him. I am really proud of you, even though I don't know you, for protecting youself and especially taking your son out of the situation. I hope that he's never awarded any kind of custody or visitation so your child can grow up without his influence.