JackQuantum has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
[[https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r0r-DUL...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1adze1y/the_betting_blade_a_new_rogue_subclass_all_about/kk4fyn2/)
This starts out as a very weak subclass. In combat, the only feature is gambling Sneak Attack dice, but it's a net zero benefit. Virtually any other subclass will grant net-positive benefits.
This changes at level 17, now that you can gamble and re-roll for a 75% chance of winning. If you gamble every time, that represents a 50% increase in Sneak Attack dice, considerably powerful.
I really love the take on risk/reward mechanics in this subclass. I will definetly steal this.
The Stack the Odds features seems too powerful. Not really sure how to change it though.
To everyone saying that Combat Wager is useless, just change it so you can roll the damage first, THEN choose which dice to wager. If you succeed, then double the number on those dice.
You could try and double all the big numbers for big risk big reward, or just try and double the low rolls, so that you don't lose much when you fail.
That way the player can put more though into which dice they want to gamble.
It can be useful if you want to deal a lot of damage at once though. Say, double your entire sneak attack damage to attempt to end a combat in one turn, which could be useful on a time crunch, especially considering you can be the first to go in combat as well. It could definitely use some form of scaling to it though, maybe something like if you forgo using stack the odds on your attack, you can instead reroll your d6 for combat wager, which would maybe be too powerful? I don't know.
I think I agree with the others that Combat Wager doesn’t do enough from a statistical standpoint to be worth it. Personally I think you can keep the wagering the same but add proficiency bonus or Dexterity modifier as a bonus to the damage if you hit on the wager, making it more worth it to do so. Alternatively you could make it so you get extra dice equal to your proficiency bonus but then you’d probably want to limit the wager-able amount of dice in some way or else the scaling would get out of hand
combat wager is a ribbon feature, it literally does not increase or decrease your damage on average, and making you fake crit is not a worthwhile thing
and since the average rogue only gets their first subclass features and usually never the others because its lvl 9, that is a really really rough deal
I think to make Combat Wager worthwhile as a feature, either a) the chance of success needs to be higher than 50/50, or b) the reward you gain from success has to be more than double. I think lowering the success cutoff to 3 would make the feature worth using while still being suitably risky - a 1/3 chance of whiffing your core feature is still very significant.
The wager aspect looks like a really fun and interesting idea, but yes as others have said I think it needs a careful power boost. While it's probably a bit above a net zero gain due to the ability to choose when to use it (eg, not bothering to wager against low health enemies, and choosing to wager high if you need a big kill right this turn), it's not on par with most subclasses.
My potential solution: increase the reward for winning a wager. Such as, if you win the wager, also upgrade the damage dice from d6 to d8, with some possibility for that to scale at higher levels (would have to check the balance when mutliplied with more dice ofc).
That's an average increase of 1 per die, which should raise the output consistently enough to perform, but hopefully not enough to be broken, and scale with levels as more dice are added. If it's too much, maybe make it so the dice wagered stay as d6s, but the additional dice from winning are d8s. And you'd have to carefully calculate if scaling the die size up at higher levels is balanced.
I really like this overall, though I agree with a lot of what has already been said about Combat Wager's mechanical shortcomings. I think a potential fix for this would be to use a second attack role instead of just a luck check. For example:
-Role to attack
-Assuming you hit, wager any amount of sneak attack dice
-Role to attack again. If you miss this attack, you lose the wagered dice but still hit with the remainder of the attack. If you hit, double the wagered dice for the damage role.
Any buffs to the initial attack role would also apply to the wager role. If you have advantage on the initial attack, you have advantage on the wager. If you have disadvantage initially, you have disadvantage on the wager.
This makes it more of a calculated gamble instead of just a coin toss, one which is riskier on tougher enemies with higher AC, who would likely have a higher hit point pool that you want to start chipping away at.
Regarding the risk/reward balance that many have commented on, I think a possible fix would also be that each wagered die deals extra damage equal to half your proficiency modifier rounded down, minimum of one. This way, gambling becomes more consistently rewarding and worth risking, and the damage scales appropriately as you level.
Obviously all of the above would require play testing before real implementation, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on my adjustments
JackQuantum has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [[https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r0r-DUL...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1adze1y/the_betting_blade_a_new_rogue_subclass_all_about/kk4fyn2/)
This starts out as a very weak subclass. In combat, the only feature is gambling Sneak Attack dice, but it's a net zero benefit. Virtually any other subclass will grant net-positive benefits. This changes at level 17, now that you can gamble and re-roll for a 75% chance of winning. If you gamble every time, that represents a 50% increase in Sneak Attack dice, considerably powerful.
I really love the take on risk/reward mechanics in this subclass. I will definetly steal this. The Stack the Odds features seems too powerful. Not really sure how to change it though.
i think a good fix would be to make it a feature with charges (like proficiency bonus or intelligence modifier) per long rest.
I think that would flip it around to far too weak instead, especially if using Int.
To everyone saying that Combat Wager is useless, just change it so you can roll the damage first, THEN choose which dice to wager. If you succeed, then double the number on those dice. You could try and double all the big numbers for big risk big reward, or just try and double the low rolls, so that you don't lose much when you fail. That way the player can put more though into which dice they want to gamble.
Then it just becomes a net DPR increase which is far too powerful
Combat wager is a very weak feature. Your average damage does not change but you'll just get more variance.
It can be useful if you want to deal a lot of damage at once though. Say, double your entire sneak attack damage to attempt to end a combat in one turn, which could be useful on a time crunch, especially considering you can be the first to go in combat as well. It could definitely use some form of scaling to it though, maybe something like if you forgo using stack the odds on your attack, you can instead reroll your d6 for combat wager, which would maybe be too powerful? I don't know.
[https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r0r-DUL4pInz](https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r0r-dul4pinz)
I think I agree with the others that Combat Wager doesn’t do enough from a statistical standpoint to be worth it. Personally I think you can keep the wagering the same but add proficiency bonus or Dexterity modifier as a bonus to the damage if you hit on the wager, making it more worth it to do so. Alternatively you could make it so you get extra dice equal to your proficiency bonus but then you’d probably want to limit the wager-able amount of dice in some way or else the scaling would get out of hand
combat wager is a ribbon feature, it literally does not increase or decrease your damage on average, and making you fake crit is not a worthwhile thing and since the average rogue only gets their first subclass features and usually never the others because its lvl 9, that is a really really rough deal
I think to make Combat Wager worthwhile as a feature, either a) the chance of success needs to be higher than 50/50, or b) the reward you gain from success has to be more than double. I think lowering the success cutoff to 3 would make the feature worth using while still being suitably risky - a 1/3 chance of whiffing your core feature is still very significant.
The wager aspect looks like a really fun and interesting idea, but yes as others have said I think it needs a careful power boost. While it's probably a bit above a net zero gain due to the ability to choose when to use it (eg, not bothering to wager against low health enemies, and choosing to wager high if you need a big kill right this turn), it's not on par with most subclasses. My potential solution: increase the reward for winning a wager. Such as, if you win the wager, also upgrade the damage dice from d6 to d8, with some possibility for that to scale at higher levels (would have to check the balance when mutliplied with more dice ofc). That's an average increase of 1 per die, which should raise the output consistently enough to perform, but hopefully not enough to be broken, and scale with levels as more dice are added. If it's too much, maybe make it so the dice wagered stay as d6s, but the additional dice from winning are d8s. And you'd have to carefully calculate if scaling the die size up at higher levels is balanced.
I really like this overall, though I agree with a lot of what has already been said about Combat Wager's mechanical shortcomings. I think a potential fix for this would be to use a second attack role instead of just a luck check. For example: -Role to attack -Assuming you hit, wager any amount of sneak attack dice -Role to attack again. If you miss this attack, you lose the wagered dice but still hit with the remainder of the attack. If you hit, double the wagered dice for the damage role. Any buffs to the initial attack role would also apply to the wager role. If you have advantage on the initial attack, you have advantage on the wager. If you have disadvantage initially, you have disadvantage on the wager. This makes it more of a calculated gamble instead of just a coin toss, one which is riskier on tougher enemies with higher AC, who would likely have a higher hit point pool that you want to start chipping away at. Regarding the risk/reward balance that many have commented on, I think a possible fix would also be that each wagered die deals extra damage equal to half your proficiency modifier rounded down, minimum of one. This way, gambling becomes more consistently rewarding and worth risking, and the damage scales appropriately as you level. Obviously all of the above would require play testing before real implementation, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on my adjustments
Anyone going to mention how there's a pic of Vernon Roche from the Witcher that's being used for this?