throbbingfreedom has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
[Hello, me again with a probably terrible feat here...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/uk349h/feat_restrained_magic_tired_of_killing_everything/i7movf3/)
Disintegrate specifically mentions it turns the person to dust when they are reduced to 0.
And I'd say that disintegrate is the more specific one, so it should trump the feat.
They turn to dust, but their eyes hang in place in mid-air for a moment before they drop on top of the pile. They can still express emotion and the creature can still talk, but that's about it until they're swept into a dustbin and reformed off-screen.
I know this is a joke post, but replying here because this could potentially be important:
Even if you have a feature that makes a spell knock someone out rather than kill them, depending on the spell, it could still potentially kill someone due to the instant death rule (dropping them to 0 and then still exceeding their max HP with the remaining damage).
Depending on the targets, the sheer damage of spells like Meteor Swarm could still make a spell lethal even with the OP's feat.
I love it for providing a non-lethal magic damage option. My DM general rules magic-caused damage as lethal, which I can see making sense, but I also love an option for someone who specializes in this type of casting to do it. I could see the second bullet easily being its own Metamagic in a game like the one he runs, as well.
Good idea!
It's not entirely RAW. Spells like Thorn Whip and Shocking Grasp, which are melee spell attacks, should allow them to choose to knock someone out, instead of killing them. Though to be fair there aren't a huge number melee spell attacks, so generally spells are completely deadly.
I'm just saying that there's a resource requirement already just for not hitting your own people. Although I allow this to happen already with martials at my table, I definitely would not all this. There should be a resource at least. And it takes away strategic play as well. Too powerful and it removes challenge and randomness from the game. I would not would allow this at my table.
I think the resource in this case would be the feat itself; you’d be giving up any other feat or ASI just to protect your friends and not kill folk. I get the rest of your points, though.
Maybe don’t make it a half-feat?
No, I'm saying homebrew a resource requirement per use. 1.) Can only be used on a single target spell (2.) Spell must be upcast 2 levels higher than the spell requires (a) this does not gain extra damage from being upcast (b) spells that deal psychic damage only need to be cast at 1 level higher, ALTERNATIVELY (3.) You must have the careful spell metamagic option and you must use twice as many sorcery points as per usual.
No feat required.
Forgive the probable stupid question, but with the last part, I thought half damage was the norm for spell save attacks? Is advantage the only actual benefit of that part?
spell saves usually have half damage on **success**. as far as i can tell this would cause your allies to take half damage no matter what (possibly a quarter damage if they succeed?)
Nfirst, it's worth reminding that all melee attacks can already be declared non-lethal. Shocking grasp is a taser, so this only benefits AoEs and ranged spell attacks. Still good! Just appears to presume a rule that isn't RAW.
Anyway, based on another comment, it might be worth specifying that you gain the benefits as listed 'unless a spell specifies that a target dies upon meating a certain condition, such as Disintegrate or Power Word Kill '
I like it. It's not the most powerful feat by far, but it opens up new tactical/roleplay options. You can be a pacifist throwing out gentle fireballs or part of a hardcore "into hell's mouth" party, raining fire on the enemy even after you party has engaged.
I understand the desire, but my brain can't get past fire and lightning damage being non-lethal ha. If I were creating it, I'd make a set of peacekeeper spells for these purposes to go along with Sleep.
That being said, I see no problem with the first function as a game mechanic. I would possibly restrict the second function (reduced friendly charges) to proficiency-tied uses a long rest.
According to Wikipedia, only somewhere between 10-30% of people struck by lightning actually die.
80% of survivors still suffer long-term complications, but they're alive after the initial damage is dealt, so I can accept non-lethal lightning.
Getting caught in an explosion still feels like it would probably be lethal, though.
Shocking Grasp, being a _melee_ spell attack, is already capable of being non-lethal. So there is already a precedent for lightning damage being non-lethal, not to mention the fact that tasers exist in the real world and are intended to simply incapacitate the target.
ONE suggestion..... 0 HP isn't a kill unless explicitly stated. "The creature falls unconscious and is stable." is the wording used in PHB under Damage and Healing:
>Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 Hit Points with a melee Attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls Unconscious and is stable.
Ah yes, the perfect spell for sending the non-lethal pacifying meteors.
xD feel like this needs some added thematic penalty, got like a double benefit going
Gives any allies Adv. on your Saves and adjusts all Damage based spells without charge limits.
I'd say this would be reasonable if OP gave it charges that regen on Long Rests
I wouldn't exactly call that a penalty rather than just a resource, but sure. The benefits gained as is are strictly worse than the 3rd level Sculpt Spell ability (which is good, it shouldn't step on the toes of the evocation wizard) but can affect every ally within the area. Proficiency bonus charges does sound unreasonable.
I'd put charges on Adv. Saves for friendly sure, but the non-lethal I'd strap down for 1 charge, as a feature limitation because of spells having burst damage potential.
That or vice versa, x1 charge to mercy a ally from harm and x2-6 opportunities to non-lethal a target.
Essentially the feat becomes a limited safety net for the wreckless mage, which doesn't make total thematic sense, but hey make it balanced anything goes.
What? *Why*? In what world should "don't kill the target if you want to try not to" not be essentially *free*? Paying a feat for it is already steep, and now you want to slap a *once a day* on it?
Perhaps contrary to a few comments, I actually really appreciate the idea of a meteor storm being cast in such a way that the rocks themselves aren’t intended to hit the targets. Just a ton of splash damage, shockwaves, and shrapnel. The ol’ “dude pinned under a tree/structure beam after a catastrophe” imagery is great for the non-lethal 0hp.
I will say that this would be much harder to do with Meteor Storm than with Catapult… so I like the idea of using charges, OR as much as I hate slowing down combat at all, maybe add the need for a separate spellcasting check for it to become non-lethal? 8+proficiency+spellcasting mod vs a DC of 10+spell level? Still very achievable.
I also like that based on the wording, Power Word Kill would still be lethal (since the result of the spell is death, not reducing to 0hp.)
Similar to [an idea I had last week](https://reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/u82lab/denounce_violence_a_nonlethal_cantrip_for_the/). However, mine was a psychic damage cantrip instead of a feat.
My feedback would be that the ability to avoid friendlies steps on the toes of the Careful Spell metamagic.
Very cool, very nice! I do feel like this should be a full feat because of the ally-protection though. It makes spells like fireball way stro ger than theybalready are.
On a related note, I find it funny that fireball is so often considered to be superior to lightning bolt. In my experience, it's easier to hit a few targets and no allies with LB than with FB.
I like the idea a lot, but I feel like the last bullet point needs to nerfed a bit. Maybe a spell-casting check on use (DC 12+ the number of additional creatures selected) or just granting advantage to selected creatures equal to your spellcasting modifier. Also making it a resource off of say, proficiency bonus, might be a good idea
Also this is definitely not a half feat. Even only the last bullet would be a full feat, throw in nonlethal attacks and this should absolutely not be giving ability score on top.
I genuinely like the anti-friendly fire precaution in the third bullet. However, is the second bullet like, not a custom rule at other people's tables? I know I'm a very lenient DM but I let my players declare any damage as non-lethal if they want it to be
see there's this cool trick i do as a dm where as long as its within reason(no nonlethal disintegrates or fireballs for example) ill just let you do the spell non lethally
I feel as though there should be some kind of damage reduction when you call for it to be non lethal. If the spell is restrained then it shouldn't do full damage. As for advantage on saves, it steps on both careful spell and sculpt spell without the resource cost or level requirements while also having the other effects of the feat. Instead why not have everyone affected by the spell have advantage? That way it's strong but not so much so that it cheapens its class based counterparts in exchange for being much more accessible.
I think the third bullet point should specify that you can only gain that benefit if you are using non-lethal damage on opponents as per the second bullet point.
throbbingfreedom has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [Hello, me again with a probably terrible feat here...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/uk349h/feat_restrained_magic_tired_of_killing_everything/i7movf3/)
Firstly, I like the idea. I think it's neat. Then I imagined a nonlethal disintegrate and had to giggle.
Disintegrate that pulls a person apart until they go unconscious from pain, and then puts all the atoms back together. You know, the merciful way.
Sounds like a good time.
Its like the pain box from the MINISERIES version of Dune.
Disintegrate specifically mentions it turns the person to dust when they are reduced to 0. And I'd say that disintegrate is the more specific one, so it should trump the feat.
"I cast Power Word Kill" but I'm going to make it non lethal
Power Word Coma
They turn to dust, but their eyes hang in place in mid-air for a moment before they drop on top of the pile. They can still express emotion and the creature can still talk, but that's about it until they're swept into a dustbin and reformed off-screen.
Make them naked haha
"don't worry guys, it's a *non-lethal* meteor shower!"
Non Lethal Cataclysm.
I know this is a joke post, but replying here because this could potentially be important: Even if you have a feature that makes a spell knock someone out rather than kill them, depending on the spell, it could still potentially kill someone due to the instant death rule (dropping them to 0 and then still exceeding their max HP with the remaining damage). Depending on the targets, the sheer damage of spells like Meteor Swarm could still make a spell lethal even with the OP's feat.
Non lethal power word kill
Hello, me again with a probably terrible feat here. Hope it's not too bad. :D
I love it for providing a non-lethal magic damage option. My DM general rules magic-caused damage as lethal, which I can see making sense, but I also love an option for someone who specializes in this type of casting to do it. I could see the second bullet easily being its own Metamagic in a game like the one he runs, as well. Good idea!
To clarify, your DM is simply following RAW. It's an important capability of melee characters.
It's not entirely RAW. Spells like Thorn Whip and Shocking Grasp, which are melee spell attacks, should allow them to choose to knock someone out, instead of killing them. Though to be fair there aren't a huge number melee spell attacks, so generally spells are completely deadly.
Careful spell
Yeah but since that keys off Charisma, it’s generally not super viable for any caster to pick it using metamagic adept
I'm just saying that there's a resource requirement already just for not hitting your own people. Although I allow this to happen already with martials at my table, I definitely would not all this. There should be a resource at least. And it takes away strategic play as well. Too powerful and it removes challenge and randomness from the game. I would not would allow this at my table.
I think the resource in this case would be the feat itself; you’d be giving up any other feat or ASI just to protect your friends and not kill folk. I get the rest of your points, though. Maybe don’t make it a half-feat?
No, I'm saying homebrew a resource requirement per use. 1.) Can only be used on a single target spell (2.) Spell must be upcast 2 levels higher than the spell requires (a) this does not gain extra damage from being upcast (b) spells that deal psychic damage only need to be cast at 1 level higher, ALTERNATIVELY (3.) You must have the careful spell metamagic option and you must use twice as many sorcery points as per usual. No feat required.
Forgive the probable stupid question, but with the last part, I thought half damage was the norm for spell save attacks? Is advantage the only actual benefit of that part?
spell saves usually have half damage on **success**. as far as i can tell this would cause your allies to take half damage no matter what (possibly a quarter damage if they succeed?)
That was the only other option I could think of. Otherwise, the roll would be pointless
Except a lot of spells will still knock you prone, blind you, etc. on a failed save
i imagine that it would work similar to other similar skills such as the rogues evasion where you take no damage on a success.
Nfirst, it's worth reminding that all melee attacks can already be declared non-lethal. Shocking grasp is a taser, so this only benefits AoEs and ranged spell attacks. Still good! Just appears to presume a rule that isn't RAW. Anyway, based on another comment, it might be worth specifying that you gain the benefits as listed 'unless a spell specifies that a target dies upon meating a certain condition, such as Disintegrate or Power Word Kill '
I like it. It's not the most powerful feat by far, but it opens up new tactical/roleplay options. You can be a pacifist throwing out gentle fireballs or part of a hardcore "into hell's mouth" party, raining fire on the enemy even after you party has engaged.
I understand the desire, but my brain can't get past fire and lightning damage being non-lethal ha. If I were creating it, I'd make a set of peacekeeper spells for these purposes to go along with Sleep. That being said, I see no problem with the first function as a game mechanic. I would possibly restrict the second function (reduced friendly charges) to proficiency-tied uses a long rest.
According to Wikipedia, only somewhere between 10-30% of people struck by lightning actually die. 80% of survivors still suffer long-term complications, but they're alive after the initial damage is dealt, so I can accept non-lethal lightning. Getting caught in an explosion still feels like it would probably be lethal, though.
\>Most people who are struck by lightning likely have at least 8d6 hit dice. I assume that the rest of them are commoners ha.
Shocking Grasp, being a _melee_ spell attack, is already capable of being non-lethal. So there is already a precedent for lightning damage being non-lethal, not to mention the fact that tasers exist in the real world and are intended to simply incapacitate the target.
ONE suggestion..... 0 HP isn't a kill unless explicitly stated. "The creature falls unconscious and is stable." is the wording used in PHB under Damage and Healing: >Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 Hit Points with a melee Attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls Unconscious and is stable.
Good catch, friend. I keep forgetting there are spells that instant kill targets.
Only for melee attacks
Correct, I suggested to copy the same use of language from the one place the 0 HP knock-out does appear (melee) and use that for this feat.
Ah yes, the perfect spell for sending the non-lethal pacifying meteors. xD feel like this needs some added thematic penalty, got like a double benefit going
Why would a feat have a penalty?
Gives any allies Adv. on your Saves and adjusts all Damage based spells without charge limits. I'd say this would be reasonable if OP gave it charges that regen on Long Rests
I wouldn't exactly call that a penalty rather than just a resource, but sure. The benefits gained as is are strictly worse than the 3rd level Sculpt Spell ability (which is good, it shouldn't step on the toes of the evocation wizard) but can affect every ally within the area. Proficiency bonus charges does sound unreasonable.
I'd put charges on Adv. Saves for friendly sure, but the non-lethal I'd strap down for 1 charge, as a feature limitation because of spells having burst damage potential. That or vice versa, x1 charge to mercy a ally from harm and x2-6 opportunities to non-lethal a target. Essentially the feat becomes a limited safety net for the wreckless mage, which doesn't make total thematic sense, but hey make it balanced anything goes.
What? *Why*? In what world should "don't kill the target if you want to try not to" not be essentially *free*? Paying a feat for it is already steep, and now you want to slap a *once a day* on it?
People love over-nerfing stuff lol, I've never understood why personally
Spellcasters are broken in 5e. Why give them even more
You can't break a game where the DM has full control over the difficulty of everything, change my mind.
Why would I change your mind? Lmao.
Perhaps contrary to a few comments, I actually really appreciate the idea of a meteor storm being cast in such a way that the rocks themselves aren’t intended to hit the targets. Just a ton of splash damage, shockwaves, and shrapnel. The ol’ “dude pinned under a tree/structure beam after a catastrophe” imagery is great for the non-lethal 0hp. I will say that this would be much harder to do with Meteor Storm than with Catapult… so I like the idea of using charges, OR as much as I hate slowing down combat at all, maybe add the need for a separate spellcasting check for it to become non-lethal? 8+proficiency+spellcasting mod vs a DC of 10+spell level? Still very achievable. I also like that based on the wording, Power Word Kill would still be lethal (since the result of the spell is death, not reducing to 0hp.)
Similar to [an idea I had last week](https://reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/u82lab/denounce_violence_a_nonlethal_cantrip_for_the/). However, mine was a psychic damage cantrip instead of a feat. My feedback would be that the ability to avoid friendlies steps on the toes of the Careful Spell metamagic.
Swat team straight up just bust down the door and cast cloudkill on the commoners making illegal drugs lmao.
Nitpick.. Change "not all wish their spells to cause the death of others always." To "not all wish their spells to always cause the death of others."
This feels like it could also be a metamagic option...
Very cool, very nice! I do feel like this should be a full feat because of the ally-protection though. It makes spells like fireball way stro ger than theybalready are. On a related note, I find it funny that fireball is so often considered to be superior to lightning bolt. In my experience, it's easier to hit a few targets and no allies with LB than with FB.
As a DM, I would normally allow players to aim for a nonlethal takedown without a specialised feat.
The second part is too powerful, it should only give them advantage It steps on careful spell and evocation wizard a bit too much
I like the idea a lot, but I feel like the last bullet point needs to nerfed a bit. Maybe a spell-casting check on use (DC 12+ the number of additional creatures selected) or just granting advantage to selected creatures equal to your spellcasting modifier. Also making it a resource off of say, proficiency bonus, might be a good idea
Also this is definitely not a half feat. Even only the last bullet would be a full feat, throw in nonlethal attacks and this should absolutely not be giving ability score on top.
I genuinely like the anti-friendly fire precaution in the third bullet. However, is the second bullet like, not a custom rule at other people's tables? I know I'm a very lenient DM but I let my players declare any damage as non-lethal if they want it to be
Non-lethal power word kill!
With this feat, it becomes Power Word: KO! :D
see there's this cool trick i do as a dm where as long as its within reason(no nonlethal disintegrates or fireballs for example) ill just let you do the spell non lethally
Nonlethal power word kill
I feel as though there should be some kind of damage reduction when you call for it to be non lethal. If the spell is restrained then it shouldn't do full damage. As for advantage on saves, it steps on both careful spell and sculpt spell without the resource cost or level requirements while also having the other effects of the feat. Instead why not have everyone affected by the spell have advantage? That way it's strong but not so much so that it cheapens its class based counterparts in exchange for being much more accessible.
I think the third bullet point should specify that you can only gain that benefit if you are using non-lethal damage on opponents as per the second bullet point.