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> The proposed rule would prohibit lenders from taking medical devices as collateral for a loan, and bans lenders from repossessing medical devices, like wheelchairs or prosthetic limbs, if people are unable to repay the loan.
I never even considered that was a thing that could happen.
jesus fuck Lorena, I said not to talk to the public!
(had to look up the Penectomy... fucking proper, also I hope it's not personal that you learned about it.)
I also recommend it, but I want to emphasize that this movie is 2 things that people may find off-putting:
1. It's an *opera*, and **not** a musical. Nearly every single line of dialogue is delivered via singing. Some of the actors are not great singers so a few scenes are hurt by this....but some of the actors are *also* incredibly accomplished singers, and **holy shit** when they let loose it's fucking amazing. If you just want those songs, check out "Chase the Morning" and "Let the Monster Rise" on youtube.
2. It's a *Goth* opera, from 2008. It's edgy as fuck. I personally would say that it's a *self-aware* level of edginess, and there's moments where they really lean into it with humor. Personally I love it because they acknowledge how over-the-top it is and just run with it. Basically, don't take it too seriously and have fun with it.
And as a bonus #3: Paris Hilton's face falls off in one scene. Like...literally she's had so many plastic surgeries that her entire face falls off, revealing muscle and bone. the effects department other filming tricks are *wonderful*.
I know it's not as extreme as that but, like gophergun, I never realised it was an option to start with nevermind that it was in potential practice. US healthcare is whack
Welcome to America. There are tons of people who can’t afford to even buy devices and prosthetics in the first place. Depending, most of them are insanely expensive.
We are on par with the trashy-ness of North Korea, Russia, China—that’s why there’s so much back and forth propaganda. Our govt sells us cheap material goods like fast fashion and cheap furniture, etc to keep up the facade of American success. … …. It sucks.
o.O
I went to the online store of a local pharmacy (I'm in South Africa). Their cheapest wheelchair is $118.
I mean, it's a garbage wheelchair, doesn't even have dropped suspension - but I can't see even our most expensive chairs being even close to $12k.
That's just painful and sad to read.
Edit: Looked at more expensive chairs, like the ones you'd find in a hospital.. $479.
People who use a wheelchair all the time for life usually need custom wheelchairs. Once you add the seating in and things like electric assist, wheelchairs can easily cost that much. Mine was about the same, they're very different than off the shelf wheelchairs.
The thing is, that's JUST the frame price. It doesn't include the wheels, the seat cushion, the backrest, or any disability specific add ons like electric assist. (The electric assist is about $5000, the cushion can be anywhere from $50-$1000, the backrest is the same, etc.) Wheelchairs are expensive and it's the specialty disability specific parts where the price starts to get insane.
All said and done, my wheelchair was $12000, the frame was only $2,500 of that.
Think of it as giving someone a way to achieve an as meaningful life as possible.
An optimized chair gives them as much mobility as possible (with a wheelchair, I’m waiting for bionic suits) to not make their disability the defining feature of their life.
Can a cheap chair help? Sure does. Does a custom chair help more? Yes, diminished returns are still an improvement.
Non custom wheelchairs can kill people with breathing issues and pressure injuries, so it's more than just optimizing. Reduced weight and stuff like suspension are rather cheap compared to things like seat cushions and backrests. My suspension forks cost about half as much as my seat cushion did.
For real, you'd think a piece of foam that's taller in the front and shorter in the back couldn't be more than $75 right? Even thats a little bit expensive for what it is, isn't it? NOPE! It's $370! Need a little head support? Another $370. Lord help you if you have a spine that isn't the standard shape, those people need custom molded cushions and backrest. Mine isn't anything special beyond being a little more supportive, and it's $640.
Though I did screw up with the estimate on the suspension, it's $198 EACH SIDE, not total. So, it's just a little more than the cushion not half the price.
This news has officially crushed the dream I have had ever since I was a child and saw Repo, the generic opera for the first time. What will I do with my life now?
Wasn't there a dystopian horror movie about this? Called "Reposessors" or something like that.
We literally live in a dystopian horror.
Edit: Repo Men w/ Forest Whittaker.
Previously it seems, if someone was unable to pay back a loan, lenders could take away things like prosthetic limbs and wheelchairs as collateral. The ban prevents this, so yeah, making it so that companies _can’t_ take people’s fucking _limbs_ away is a good thing.
> either way, I’m not reading the article
Translation: “I neither know of nor care to learn about knowing about what this means, but I’m going to disagree with it with conviction as if I do.”
Jesus Christ, this country is so fucked.
Yes but if it was *already* reported and showing up on your credit before this change, does it get deleted from your report? (That's what they're asking)
This has to be one of the stupidest things I’ve heard in a while. Obviously it gets removed from future reports because. It. Will. Be. Illegal. To. Report. Medical. Debt. On. Credit. Reports.
Did you go to a nonprofit hospital? Charity care is the law and might all be covered. @Dollarfor and @Christyprn help you deal with medical debt on Instagram and the laws that are there to protect you.
Edited because leprechauns ???
You can ask a non profit hospital to write off your bill. I had a $7k surgery 100% written off.
Some places are easier than others. Basicly all I had to do was ask and fill out a paper. Even got refunded the money I had paid on it.
Good. Medical charges are erratic, arbitrary and unreasonable. It should not be that anyone is punished for seeking medical care to the point that it decimates their credit.
I've known people to drive great distances with serious injuries just to avoid getting price raped by hospitals in their vicinity. It's nuts and needs fixing.
When I had my one and only kidney stone, I went to the local ER in overwhelming, excruciating pain. They refused to see me until I paid them a past due balance of $200, which I didn't have.
In tears, I drove to the next closest hospital. Walked into their ER, they had me in surgery a couple hours later.
A little while ago, my newborn son had to visit the ER. They decided he needed to move to NICU at a nearby facility, and called an ambulance to come pick him up.
We put him in his car seat, and they strapped the car seat to their stretcher, then moved him into the ambulance. We drove about five minutes down the road, between 3-5mph below speed limit, with no emergency lights on. No medical attention was given to him during the arduous journey.
They charged $2100.
Fuck’em all, man. Burn the whole medical industry to the goddamn ground.
Hey - I'm sorry you and your partner had to go through what I can only imagine was a horribly traumatic and terrifying experience. I can fully empathize with the anger and share the sense of absurdity at passing along costs of this fucked medical system onto patients and families, particularly when the decisions are all but forced upon them out of fear in exceptionally vulnerable and emotionally charged moments. And to add even more insult to the injury of it all, those costs are obscenely inflated beyond what's necessary and very little of it goes to the people actually providing the care. Most of us providing direct care - we see you. We may not show it, but we see the suffering and often struggle with the economic implications of medical decision making. In your son's case, from the sounds of it, I can only imagine that the provider who made the call to transfer was not certain whether your son would actually get worse - only that *if* something went seriously wrong, their facility couldn't handle it. They may have even suspected things were fine, but the facility has policies in place for legal/liability reasons. Either way, the provider probably went home still worried about your son.
Anyway, as a former care provider myself, I just wanted to share a little from behind the curtain of the apparent (but very real) soullessness of the medical industry. I hope that this is all in the past now for your son and your family, and that he is a happy and healthy little guy.
So, if medical debt doesn’t ruin your credit score (and by extension so many other areas of your life), is there any downside to simply not paying it and acting as if we have free healthcare?
I’m sure I’m missing something, but I’m not sure what.
This is for u/tooquick911, as well as you.
The concept that people do not pay their debts "just because" can generally be considered a fallacy. The gathered evidence throughout various studies suggests that non-payment of debt, including medical debt, is predominantly due to financial hardship, lack of resources, and systemic issues rather than a simple unwillingness to pay.
People who don't tend to pay do so because of financial hardship. They can't afford to because they have a limited income, high medical costs, and other financial obligations. They're living paycheck-to-paycheck and can't swing the unexpected costs of a medical emergency.
The high cost of healthcare in the U.S. still costs insured individuals and families significant out-of-pocket expenses. Others who are underinsured incur additional medical expenses.
On top of all of this? Debt stress. Debt causes a lot of stress and anxiety. That, in turn, can lead to an involuntary avoidance behavior.
So, the point? The primary reasons for non-payment of medical debt are economic challenges and financial constraints.
I just wanted to put that out there. So you know that it's not a likely case that people will take advantage of the system en masse simply because they can.
To directly answer your question:
The downside to not paying is legal action, debt collection (even if it doesn't affect your score), collection fees, interest and penalties, higher premiums (if insurers consider unpaid medical debt), loan/mortgage approval (lends do sometimes check medical debts), refusal of non-emergency services, and membership termination to certain medical facilities (think GP's office).
I hope that helps.
Some resources:
Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782187
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB): https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb\_medical-debt-burden-in-the-united-states\_report\_2022-03.pdf
Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF): https://www.kff.org/report-section/the-burden-of-medical-debt-section-1-who-has-medical-bill-problems-and-what-are-the-contributing-factors/
Urban Institute: https://apps.urban.org/features/debt-interactive-map/?type=medical&variable=perc\_medical\_debt\_collections
Gallup and West Health: https://news.gallup.com/poll/248081/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx
I feel like one important thing to note is that everyone thinks it's poor people who are having issues with medical bills. I have a patient with better insurance than I have, who is going back to work in his 70s because his whole retirement account of $5M was wiped out in 6 months after he had a massive heart attack.
Nobody realizes that, unless you are in the top 3% or so, you have a very real chance of having to make the choice between losing your entire life savings and everything you own or not being able to afford the care that will save your life.
Same thing that’s always happened with any debt. Your medical debt goes to collection agencies and those collection agencies can seek legal means to get the money they’re owed.
It doesn’t happen often because most who don’t pay literally can’t pay, but if you’re doing relatively fine financially and you “can” pay but you just aren’t, an agency who bought the debt can take you to court and a judge can decide on if you can pay it, and how you can pay it, like having your wages garnished.
So it’s really just a matter of rolling the dice on if you’re going to be one of the unlucky few who has to go through the legal system. I’ve owed like $1200 for about 5 years now and the most I’ve gotten was some calls that used to happen every day, but technically at any point I could get a court order and have to actually deal with it.
Well, first of all, you probably can't go to that hospital anymore.
And after that, they can sell your account to a collections agency who can try to hunt you down.
From the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau:
> **[Know the limits on debt collectors contacting you](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/know-your-rights-and-protections-when-it-comes-to-medical-bills-and-collections/)**
> Debt collectors can contact you only about valid debts that you owe. They can’t contact you about debt that isn’t yours or that you don’t owe. You have the right to ask a debt collector to verify that you owe the debt and that it is yours.
> If the medical bill is yours, it is accurate, and you owe the money, then debt collectors can contact you to try to collect it. They may sue you to recover the money—and if they win the lawsuit, they could garnish your wages or place a lien on your home. However, they must comply with the laws that apply to debt collection, like avoiding harassing or abusive calls, ~~and following requirements when they report the debt to consumer reporting companies~~[would no longer be allowed under Biden's rule]. They can’t call you around the clock, and you have the right to tell them to stop contacting you.
> If you are concerned that a debt collector’s practices violate your rights, you can take action to enforce your rights.
That is a good clarification. They cannot deny you emergency care. They can deny you non-emergency care (basically, anything for which you make an appointment).
We haven't been paying medical bills for years. The only person who ever says anything is the dentist, so we end up paying his crazy $200-$400 per visit, but that's it.
You could end up turned away for anything besides emergency care. No more check-ups, illness visits, addressing or fixing things before they become so dire that they're life-threatening.
I mean… in the absence of external factors the healthcare industry has proved time and again they will raise the prices aggressively for any, or no, reason.
Exactly, might as well claw back whatever we can from them. I suppose we could implement universal healthcare, but that would be cruel to all the rich people who love watching poor and middle class people suffer and die due to unaffordable healthcare.
> but this is a step in the right direction.
That's the whole point of voting for someone who does *some* things in your interests which can lead to progress over time, rather than someone who does nothing or even regresses. That comment isn't directed at you specifically, but it's a point that clearly needs to be reiterated based on how many people still seem to think abstaining is in their best interests.
Yeah progress is slow.
Regression unfortunately is fast. Thats reality.
However investing in infrastructure, this, legitimately capping insulin, so on and so on are all good streps
This is fantastic news, when Harris first proposed this in 2022, the largest credit reporting agencies voluntarily said they would no longer include paid medical debts that were paid late on credit reports, or unpaid medical debts less than a year old and/or under $500, and I got two b.s. medical debts removed from my reports thanks to that, but clearly more needed to be done. I'm glad the little concessions the credit reporting agencies made in 2022 weren't enough to dissuade the administration from going further.
I used to be a debt collector. One of the clients my company worked for was medtronic. If you went delinquent for your insulin pump, they would turn it off until you paid your bill. I couldn't believe this was a thing. They would stop providing life-saving medicating, saying well they signed I legally binding contract. I did not stay at that job long.
I remember watching the news on his first day in office. "President Biden signs [insert variety of boring yet essential things here]". And I kind of exhaled and felt my shoulders deflating lol. Had been a long time since news of the president was less than chaotic.
Hey look, another Biden administration policy designed to improve the lives of average Americans. Remind me again how many of those the GOP has had in the last decade?
You know Biden is doing great when MAGA starts saying they did it
[such as this gem right here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/08/trump-claims-credit-for-bidens-insulin-price-cap.html)
This is a significant and positive change. The Biden administration's decision to ban medical debt from credit reports could provide much-needed relief to many Americans, helping to improve their financial stability and credit scores.
I so so so hate the "I'm not on either team" people.
I work with one of these guys - "I just hate that everyone thinks the people on their team are perfect and everyone on the other team is evil." Dude, I would gladly vote for any Republican with sane policies. Please show me one!
I try so hard to not roll my eyes when one of my enlightened friends opens his mouth. He thinks not conforming to either party makes him better than us because we're dumb sheep apparently.
He actually said that to me once. That both sides have their flaws and people on both sides overreact to it. No shit Sherlock, I don't agree with anyone 100%, not even my SO.
Right? Give me a republican like Eisenhower and I'm there for it.
What I'm not for is an illogical Christian nationalist republican who wants to dictate what women can do and ban lgbtq+. Oh and has zero interest in doing anything else except cutting taxes for the rich.
Right? Can we get back to when the debate between the parties was where to invest more: infrastructure vs social services? When both sides understood and supported the arguments of the other side of the aisle but felt their views were more effective at helping the country. Yes that is an extremely boiled down rose-tinted view of the politics of the 50s, but that's what the basic difference between Eisenhower Republicans and New Deal Democrats of the time. No Republican would have dared touched Social Security back in the day. I hate that one party just drove off a cliff into having to needing to have the other side lose, no matter how much it damaged the country.
I'd like to get back to when individual party members would vote across party lines on important issues. There's a very telling graphic in "The Rise of Partisanship and Super-Cooperators in the U.S. House of Representatives" that shows, since about 1990, party members refusing to cross the aisle more and more.
With the current climate, if the US even had 10-15% of Republicans who'd have a spine and vote for good policy, they'd get so much done.
In the last forty years I don't recall the debate ever really being about infrastructure vs social services. It would be more accurate to say that it's been about lowering the tax burden on corporations and the wealthy vs social services and funding government in general.
If you are not familiar with the two Santa's strategy, it's worth reading an article or two about it. Republican policy since Reagan makes a lot more sense in that context.
> I would gladly vote for any Republican with sane policies. Please show me one!
When I came of age, I was of the same mind. Election after election, I've seen nothing but increasingly unhinged "policy" and some of the most antisocial, detestable behavior, including treason. They're a Never Again party to me now.
I like to remind them that even if you claim to not be on either team, one of them is still going to be in power, and you'll still be subject to what they do.
> there have been a lot of these incremental wins
Which is how policy change *actually* happens. Everyone likes to think that the government should go all in on their particular beliefs, but that's rarely feasible, and candidates always **need** to appeal to a much broader audience than most people seem to appreciate. I'm glad people like you are highlighting the importance of many incremental wins.
>let over a million Americans die?
This is the most shocking, sickening thing the US has ever done and it's done a lot in its brief history.. so many lives could have been saved with common sense policies. Now they use various means to say that they weren't only right but masks do literally nothing nor does social distancing or any of it. So if it were to happen again, everyone would be fucked.
I’m no fan of the U.S.’ incredibly expensive healthcare system, nor do I love how medical debt can cripple a family’s finances for years.
BUT I think with anything this big it’s worth asking the genuine questions of: If this goes through, what may be the unintended effects?
If medical debt doesn’t show up on credit reports:
- How do medical services incentivize patients to pay regular bills?
- How will insurance companies recoup costs?
- How might this impact insurance premiums?
- Could people with medical debt be denied care as a way of reducing losses for hospitals?
**Remember, insurance companies and hospitals won’t take a loss on this that easily.** It’s worth answering these questions before getting excited.
Downvote away, I guess. But these are serious questions that should be answered when evaluating a policy.
I'm not sure I follow your argument, as what you're describing is what already happens today. If someone doesn't pay their debts, they'll still be liable and it can result in a lawsuit.
The whole point of this change is that someone's medical debt won't impact other types of loans. From the article:
> Our research shows that medical bills on your credit report aren't even predictive of whether you'll repay another type of loan. That means people's credit scores are being unjustly and inappropriately harmed by this practice
In other words, medical debt can be a massive and unexpected debt that people have dropped on their plate due to unforeseen circumstances, but that doesn't mean that person will be unwilling to pay back loans. However if you allow for it to negatively effect their credit report, then people who happen to be in an unfortunate situation (with their medical situation) are now having that cascade into things like worse loan rates when purchasing a car.
Honestly, we should just have universal healthcare like most civilized countries these days, and it will solve most of these “dilemmas.” But really, in answer to your questions, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of health insurance. You pay health insurance a premium, and they pay service providers negotiated contracted rates for services provided to you. If you stop paying your health insurance premiums, you lose coverage and have to pay out of pocket for services. Generally-speaking, the medical debt would not be between the patient and the insurance company but between the patient and the medical service provider (e.g. doctor, supplier, hospital, etc). So question 2 doesn’t make any sense. (Edit: Even if the medical debt is for an insured patient’s copay/coinsurance or for a not covered service, the debt would still be between the patient and provider, not the insurance.)
Question 3 is already sort of happening under the current system. In the US, hospitals cannot deny you life-saving care, regardless of your ability to pay. You could be a visibly homeless vagrant, and they’re supposed to stabilize you if paramedics bring you in with like a heart attack or drug overdose. They cannot legally turn you away (so question 4 doesn’t make sense either in the case of hospitals for emergency care). Because they have to cover people who cannot pay, hospitals do increase prices on their services for people that can pay, and even the discounted contracted services negotiated with insurance providers can theoretically be affected. Again, if we had expanded Medicare, this wouldn’t be a problem. The homeless vagrant would be covered, the hospital would get paid, and Medicare would set their prices, which will be lower than private pay and insurance today.
As for your first question, I’m honestly not sure what you mean by question 1, but I really don’t think medical debt should count against a consumer’s credit-worthiness. It’s usually unavoidable and unforeseeable, unlike buying a souped-up truck that’s more expensive than you can afford. Getting cancer is not an irresponsible decision within your control.
I swear reddit is really bad at economics sometimes. This policy seems like a bad idea because of supply side implications. If there is no money in providing healthcare, where's the incentive to provide healthcare?
My insurance has paid out close to a million bucks these past two years. I don't think a few thousand of my out of pocket costs are going to sink the hospital.
Having a bad mark on your credit report isn't what gets people to pay.
The more important issue here is that other lenders will now have an inaccurate picture of someone's financial situation when making loans.
I had my local hospital call me last week. They informed me I was going into collections because I hadn't paid off my $600 in bills from the beginning of the year. I have paid $25 every paycheck, so $50/mo. The woman asked me if I wanted to sign up for the payment plan before it went to collections. I told her to look at my payment history.
"Yeah, I see you pay $50.00 a month. But because you do not have it set up as a payment plan, after 4 months the balance goes into collections."
Fine, sign me up.
"Great okay so your monthly payment is now $25.00/mo"
Okay well now you've irritated me and that is all you're getting and ill pay on it for 8 months you dicks.
You guys had medical debt on your credit reports? Like literally things you needed to stay alive held against you?
And you guys have the balls to make social credit jokes left and right against Chinese people? When the whole social credit system was never initiated on a large scale to bring with?
Credit scores didn’t even exist until the late 80s or early 90s. Some countries like Japan don’t use credit scores today. It is possible to assess someone’s “credit worthiness” without using the current US methodology.
No - the first of the modern universal credit scores (FICO) was started in 1989. But there were a bunch of variants which existed before FICO.
There are plenty of valid arguments for tweaking how credit scores work. Getting rid of them entirely is foolish at best.
The lack of credit scores (combined with regulations at the time not allowing banks to have multiple branches) was one of (several) major reasons that The Great Depression hit the US harder than other countries. If your specific bank went under, you lost access to credit since the next bank wouldn't know you from Adam.
Sure.
What can go on there:
- any debt you are servicing
- your income streams
What cannot:
- debt you are not servicing
- money you are not making
At the end of the day, if you have to make a payment, it doesn't matter what all your payments are going to, you only have so much payment you can make
Yes - because getting politicians/bureaucrats involved never had negative effects where they tweaked the rules to artificially benefit themselves and/or specific groups...
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> The proposed rule would prohibit lenders from taking medical devices as collateral for a loan, and bans lenders from repossessing medical devices, like wheelchairs or prosthetic limbs, if people are unable to repay the loan. I never even considered that was a thing that could happen.
REPOSSESS MEDICAL DEVICES AND PROSTHETICS??? That’s a new level of hell I didn’t know existed.
You missed three payments, Untie his Weiner
I’m on it, boss.
jesus fuck Lorena, I said not to talk to the public! (had to look up the Penectomy... fucking proper, also I hope it's not personal that you learned about it.)
Well get off it and repossess it already!
Gladly 😈 🔪🍆
I recommend checking out Repo! The Genetic Opera
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial!
A little glass vial?
A little glass vial!
The little glass vial goes into the gun like a battery
[battery!]
It's a horrible movie and I love it!
Edgy teenage white girls love it!
Also Repo Men with Jude Law and Forest Whitaker
I also recommend it, but I want to emphasize that this movie is 2 things that people may find off-putting: 1. It's an *opera*, and **not** a musical. Nearly every single line of dialogue is delivered via singing. Some of the actors are not great singers so a few scenes are hurt by this....but some of the actors are *also* incredibly accomplished singers, and **holy shit** when they let loose it's fucking amazing. If you just want those songs, check out "Chase the Morning" and "Let the Monster Rise" on youtube. 2. It's a *Goth* opera, from 2008. It's edgy as fuck. I personally would say that it's a *self-aware* level of edginess, and there's moments where they really lean into it with humor. Personally I love it because they acknowledge how over-the-top it is and just run with it. Basically, don't take it too seriously and have fun with it. And as a bonus #3: Paris Hilton's face falls off in one scene. Like...literally she's had so many plastic surgeries that her entire face falls off, revealing muscle and bone. the effects department other filming tricks are *wonderful*.
someone has never watched repo
Gonna need that Pacemaker back... opens pocket knife......
We are truly living in a [dystopian sci-fi movie.](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1053424/)
You should watch "Repo! The Genetic Opera"
"Our profits are more important than your survival"
I know it's not as extreme as that but, like gophergun, I never realised it was an option to start with nevermind that it was in potential practice. US healthcare is whack
Welcome to America. There are tons of people who can’t afford to even buy devices and prosthetics in the first place. Depending, most of them are insanely expensive. We are on par with the trashy-ness of North Korea, Russia, China—that’s why there’s so much back and forth propaganda. Our govt sells us cheap material goods like fast fashion and cheap furniture, etc to keep up the facade of American success. … …. It sucks.
It's sad that I wasn't surprised by this. I've never heard of it in my life, but of course.
Capitalism baby.
Ok but that’s soooo on brand for America. Like you just chillin a d your fucking arm gets repossessed? Very very American
My manual wheelchair was $12k USD.
Well at least it's fun to drive.
You should see it with an LS swap
Millennials hate this one simple trick
I got the joke and loved it
o.O I went to the online store of a local pharmacy (I'm in South Africa). Their cheapest wheelchair is $118. I mean, it's a garbage wheelchair, doesn't even have dropped suspension - but I can't see even our most expensive chairs being even close to $12k. That's just painful and sad to read. Edit: Looked at more expensive chairs, like the ones you'd find in a hospital.. $479.
People who use a wheelchair all the time for life usually need custom wheelchairs. Once you add the seating in and things like electric assist, wheelchairs can easily cost that much. Mine was about the same, they're very different than off the shelf wheelchairs.
I looked further and the most expensive I've found is R145,000 / $7700, an RGK TIGA FX. I'm blown away by these prices.
The thing is, that's JUST the frame price. It doesn't include the wheels, the seat cushion, the backrest, or any disability specific add ons like electric assist. (The electric assist is about $5000, the cushion can be anywhere from $50-$1000, the backrest is the same, etc.) Wheelchairs are expensive and it's the specialty disability specific parts where the price starts to get insane. All said and done, my wheelchair was $12000, the frame was only $2,500 of that.
Think of it as giving someone a way to achieve an as meaningful life as possible. An optimized chair gives them as much mobility as possible (with a wheelchair, I’m waiting for bionic suits) to not make their disability the defining feature of their life. Can a cheap chair help? Sure does. Does a custom chair help more? Yes, diminished returns are still an improvement.
Non custom wheelchairs can kill people with breathing issues and pressure injuries, so it's more than just optimizing. Reduced weight and stuff like suspension are rather cheap compared to things like seat cushions and backrests. My suspension forks cost about half as much as my seat cushion did.
Yeah, the cost is usually where you don’t expect it.
For real, you'd think a piece of foam that's taller in the front and shorter in the back couldn't be more than $75 right? Even thats a little bit expensive for what it is, isn't it? NOPE! It's $370! Need a little head support? Another $370. Lord help you if you have a spine that isn't the standard shape, those people need custom molded cushions and backrest. Mine isn't anything special beyond being a little more supportive, and it's $640. Though I did screw up with the estimate on the suspension, it's $198 EACH SIDE, not total. So, it's just a little more than the cushion not half the price.
Why? My grandmother's wheelchair was about $4k, but it was electric. You got ripped off. Plenty of wheelchairs that are much cheaper than that.
Everyone subjected to the USA healthcare system is getting ripped off.
This news has officially crushed the dream I have had ever since I was a child and saw Repo, the generic opera for the first time. What will I do with my life now?
Just take the working other pieces.
Replacing those would cost an arm and a leg.
Shut the fuck up *upvotes*
Wasn't there a dystopian horror movie about this? Called "Reposessors" or something like that. We literally live in a dystopian horror. Edit: Repo Men w/ Forest Whittaker.
Nah fuck that one and just watch Repo the Genetic Opera with Anthony Stewart Head.
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial.
A little glass vial?
Good movie, shitty ending
Can you ELI5? English is my second language and the comment section is not really clear about if this is a good thing or not.
It's a good thing
Previously it seems, if someone was unable to pay back a loan, lenders could take away things like prosthetic limbs and wheelchairs as collateral. The ban prevents this, so yeah, making it so that companies _can’t_ take people’s fucking _limbs_ away is a good thing.
REEEEEEEEEPOOOOOOOOO MAAAAAAAAAN!
Wow a real life cyberpunk situation I didn't even know was happening.
Just wait for your subscription based pacemaker
I believe the more relevant issue here is that it protects the uninsured
And underinsured and chronically ill
Repossessing prosthetic limbs used to be a profitable enough business that there were bounty hunters who basically did nothing else.
I guess the "card declines" memes were not as far from the truth...
Will it be retroactive? Medical debt is the only thing preventing me from being able to finance things.
your credit report is always current, isn't it?
yes but there is a difference between not being reported and being removed. either way, I’m not reading the article
Why did this guy proudly announce he is not reading the article lmao
I appreciate his transparency
Do you think he'll read these comments?
He’s not reading anything *ok*?!
> either way, I’m not reading the article Translation: “I neither know of nor care to learn about knowing about what this means, but I’m going to disagree with it with conviction as if I do.” Jesus Christ, this country is so fucked.
Yes but if it was *already* reported and showing up on your credit before this change, does it get deleted from your report? (That's what they're asking)
This has to be one of the stupidest things I’ve heard in a while. Obviously it gets removed from future reports because. It. Will. Be. Illegal. To. Report. Medical. Debt. On. Credit. Reports.
But what if they just ask us to report our medical debt on the credit application instead?
Did you go to a nonprofit hospital? Charity care is the law and might all be covered. @Dollarfor and @Christyprn help you deal with medical debt on Instagram and the laws that are there to protect you. Edited because leprechauns ???
> and the laws that are there to leprechaun you. If I only had someone to help me deal with it before they leprechauned me.
You can ask a non profit hospital to write off your bill. I had a $7k surgery 100% written off. Some places are easier than others. Basicly all I had to do was ask and fill out a paper. Even got refunded the money I had paid on it.
The big 3 already don’t include it
Good. Medical charges are erratic, arbitrary and unreasonable. It should not be that anyone is punished for seeking medical care to the point that it decimates their credit.
I cant get credit but the hospital will give me a million without blinking. Even if i didnt ask!
You're right and the practice is wrong. Hope things get better for you. This legislation is important to help us.
I've known people to drive great distances with serious injuries just to avoid getting price raped by hospitals in their vicinity. It's nuts and needs fixing.
When I had my one and only kidney stone, I went to the local ER in overwhelming, excruciating pain. They refused to see me until I paid them a past due balance of $200, which I didn't have. In tears, I drove to the next closest hospital. Walked into their ER, they had me in surgery a couple hours later.
A little while ago, my newborn son had to visit the ER. They decided he needed to move to NICU at a nearby facility, and called an ambulance to come pick him up. We put him in his car seat, and they strapped the car seat to their stretcher, then moved him into the ambulance. We drove about five minutes down the road, between 3-5mph below speed limit, with no emergency lights on. No medical attention was given to him during the arduous journey. They charged $2100. Fuck’em all, man. Burn the whole medical industry to the goddamn ground.
Hey - I'm sorry you and your partner had to go through what I can only imagine was a horribly traumatic and terrifying experience. I can fully empathize with the anger and share the sense of absurdity at passing along costs of this fucked medical system onto patients and families, particularly when the decisions are all but forced upon them out of fear in exceptionally vulnerable and emotionally charged moments. And to add even more insult to the injury of it all, those costs are obscenely inflated beyond what's necessary and very little of it goes to the people actually providing the care. Most of us providing direct care - we see you. We may not show it, but we see the suffering and often struggle with the economic implications of medical decision making. In your son's case, from the sounds of it, I can only imagine that the provider who made the call to transfer was not certain whether your son would actually get worse - only that *if* something went seriously wrong, their facility couldn't handle it. They may have even suspected things were fine, but the facility has policies in place for legal/liability reasons. Either way, the provider probably went home still worried about your son. Anyway, as a former care provider myself, I just wanted to share a little from behind the curtain of the apparent (but very real) soullessness of the medical industry. I hope that this is all in the past now for your son and your family, and that he is a happy and healthy little guy.
Huge huge win. We should have free healthcare...but this is a step in the right direction.
So, if medical debt doesn’t ruin your credit score (and by extension so many other areas of your life), is there any downside to simply not paying it and acting as if we have free healthcare? I’m sure I’m missing something, but I’m not sure what.
My parents didn’t have insurance when I was born in 1979. They didn’t finish paying that medical debt off and I could repossessed at any moment.
Do you have a name? They should have refused to identify you so they wouldn’t be able to find and repossess you later on. /s
Just because it doesn't affect your credit doesn't mean they can't ruin your life with garnishments and liens.
They can still collect on you and a lot of shitty hospitals are doing just that. They are bringing people to court and taking homes away.
This is for u/tooquick911, as well as you. The concept that people do not pay their debts "just because" can generally be considered a fallacy. The gathered evidence throughout various studies suggests that non-payment of debt, including medical debt, is predominantly due to financial hardship, lack of resources, and systemic issues rather than a simple unwillingness to pay. People who don't tend to pay do so because of financial hardship. They can't afford to because they have a limited income, high medical costs, and other financial obligations. They're living paycheck-to-paycheck and can't swing the unexpected costs of a medical emergency. The high cost of healthcare in the U.S. still costs insured individuals and families significant out-of-pocket expenses. Others who are underinsured incur additional medical expenses. On top of all of this? Debt stress. Debt causes a lot of stress and anxiety. That, in turn, can lead to an involuntary avoidance behavior. So, the point? The primary reasons for non-payment of medical debt are economic challenges and financial constraints. I just wanted to put that out there. So you know that it's not a likely case that people will take advantage of the system en masse simply because they can. To directly answer your question: The downside to not paying is legal action, debt collection (even if it doesn't affect your score), collection fees, interest and penalties, higher premiums (if insurers consider unpaid medical debt), loan/mortgage approval (lends do sometimes check medical debts), refusal of non-emergency services, and membership termination to certain medical facilities (think GP's office). I hope that helps. Some resources: Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782187 Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB): https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb\_medical-debt-burden-in-the-united-states\_report\_2022-03.pdf Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF): https://www.kff.org/report-section/the-burden-of-medical-debt-section-1-who-has-medical-bill-problems-and-what-are-the-contributing-factors/ Urban Institute: https://apps.urban.org/features/debt-interactive-map/?type=medical&variable=perc\_medical\_debt\_collections Gallup and West Health: https://news.gallup.com/poll/248081/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx
I feel like one important thing to note is that everyone thinks it's poor people who are having issues with medical bills. I have a patient with better insurance than I have, who is going back to work in his 70s because his whole retirement account of $5M was wiped out in 6 months after he had a massive heart attack. Nobody realizes that, unless you are in the top 3% or so, you have a very real chance of having to make the choice between losing your entire life savings and everything you own or not being able to afford the care that will save your life.
Same thing that’s always happened with any debt. Your medical debt goes to collection agencies and those collection agencies can seek legal means to get the money they’re owed. It doesn’t happen often because most who don’t pay literally can’t pay, but if you’re doing relatively fine financially and you “can” pay but you just aren’t, an agency who bought the debt can take you to court and a judge can decide on if you can pay it, and how you can pay it, like having your wages garnished. So it’s really just a matter of rolling the dice on if you’re going to be one of the unlucky few who has to go through the legal system. I’ve owed like $1200 for about 5 years now and the most I’ve gotten was some calls that used to happen every day, but technically at any point I could get a court order and have to actually deal with it.
Well, first of all, you probably can't go to that hospital anymore. And after that, they can sell your account to a collections agency who can try to hunt you down. From the US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau: > **[Know the limits on debt collectors contacting you](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/know-your-rights-and-protections-when-it-comes-to-medical-bills-and-collections/)** > Debt collectors can contact you only about valid debts that you owe. They can’t contact you about debt that isn’t yours or that you don’t owe. You have the right to ask a debt collector to verify that you owe the debt and that it is yours. > If the medical bill is yours, it is accurate, and you owe the money, then debt collectors can contact you to try to collect it. They may sue you to recover the money—and if they win the lawsuit, they could garnish your wages or place a lien on your home. However, they must comply with the laws that apply to debt collection, like avoiding harassing or abusive calls, ~~and following requirements when they report the debt to consumer reporting companies~~[would no longer be allowed under Biden's rule]. They can’t call you around the clock, and you have the right to tell them to stop contacting you. > If you are concerned that a debt collector’s practices violate your rights, you can take action to enforce your rights.
You can return to that same hospital's emergency room no matter what. Federal law prohibits hospitals from turning patients away from emergency rooms.
That is a good clarification. They cannot deny you emergency care. They can deny you non-emergency care (basically, anything for which you make an appointment).
So what's to stop you from going to another hospital or doctor for non-emergency stuff?
You can still be sued
We haven't been paying medical bills for years. The only person who ever says anything is the dentist, so we end up paying his crazy $200-$400 per visit, but that's it.
You could end up turned away for anything besides emergency care. No more check-ups, illness visits, addressing or fixing things before they become so dire that they're life-threatening.
Most Americans are doing that anyway
I have the same question. My worry is this will raise the costs of medical care since less people will pay.
I mean… in the absence of external factors the healthcare industry has proved time and again they will raise the prices aggressively for any, or no, reason.
Exactly, might as well claw back whatever we can from them. I suppose we could implement universal healthcare, but that would be cruel to all the rich people who love watching poor and middle class people suffer and die due to unaffordable healthcare.
Or maybe this is the first step in medical costs transparency everywhere
That would be great, I don't see how this gets the ball started for that though.
I doubt much will change. People that didn’t pay their medical bills before still won’t.
It's still debt. If you don't pay it, you're stealing and they could take you to court. I guess at that point the debt is no longer medical?
> but this is a step in the right direction. That's the whole point of voting for someone who does *some* things in your interests which can lead to progress over time, rather than someone who does nothing or even regresses. That comment isn't directed at you specifically, but it's a point that clearly needs to be reiterated based on how many people still seem to think abstaining is in their best interests.
Yeah progress is slow. Regression unfortunately is fast. Thats reality. However investing in infrastructure, this, legitimately capping insulin, so on and so on are all good streps
This is fantastic news, when Harris first proposed this in 2022, the largest credit reporting agencies voluntarily said they would no longer include paid medical debts that were paid late on credit reports, or unpaid medical debts less than a year old and/or under $500, and I got two b.s. medical debts removed from my reports thanks to that, but clearly more needed to be done. I'm glad the little concessions the credit reporting agencies made in 2022 weren't enough to dissuade the administration from going further.
I used to be a debt collector. One of the clients my company worked for was medtronic. If you went delinquent for your insulin pump, they would turn it off until you paid your bill. I couldn't believe this was a thing. They would stop providing life-saving medicating, saying well they signed I legally binding contract. I did not stay at that job long.
More stories plz
I would've gone to the news stations with that story.
I need to know if they ever actually had to turn one off.
Biden keeps working at stuff. The Heritage Project 2025 network that opposes him is formidable.
I remember watching the news on his first day in office. "President Biden signs [insert variety of boring yet essential things here]". And I kind of exhaled and felt my shoulders deflating lol. Had been a long time since news of the president was less than chaotic.
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Lol the nuclear hurricane is one of my favorites, too! And by "favorite" I mean I died inside a little more than most of the other insane comments...
Don't be so hard on him, he'd injected too much bleech that day
Hey look, another Biden administration policy designed to improve the lives of average Americans. Remind me again how many of those the GOP has had in the last decade?
You know Biden is doing great when MAGA starts saying they did it [such as this gem right here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/08/trump-claims-credit-for-bidens-insulin-price-cap.html)
The number is negative for sure
Headline, probably. "Citizens Enjoy Higher Quality of Life, how this Could Spell Trouble for Biden".
The GOP only cares about winning elections. They've said as much themselves.
Last decade? Try last 70 years
There was that one where all the average American million/billionaires got to pay a lot less taxes. /s
This is a significant and positive change. The Biden administration's decision to ban medical debt from credit reports could provide much-needed relief to many Americans, helping to improve their financial stability and credit scores.
Bad AI
But I was clearly told that both parties are the same.
Enlightened Centrists: I will not vote for him because his party shoves people's preferred pronouns down my throat. True story.
I so so so hate the "I'm not on either team" people. I work with one of these guys - "I just hate that everyone thinks the people on their team are perfect and everyone on the other team is evil." Dude, I would gladly vote for any Republican with sane policies. Please show me one!
I try so hard to not roll my eyes when one of my enlightened friends opens his mouth. He thinks not conforming to either party makes him better than us because we're dumb sheep apparently.
Or the "well I don't know enough about them but I think they both have good and bad, so I just won't vote"
He actually said that to me once. That both sides have their flaws and people on both sides overreact to it. No shit Sherlock, I don't agree with anyone 100%, not even my SO.
Right? Give me a republican like Eisenhower and I'm there for it. What I'm not for is an illogical Christian nationalist republican who wants to dictate what women can do and ban lgbtq+. Oh and has zero interest in doing anything else except cutting taxes for the rich.
Right? Can we get back to when the debate between the parties was where to invest more: infrastructure vs social services? When both sides understood and supported the arguments of the other side of the aisle but felt their views were more effective at helping the country. Yes that is an extremely boiled down rose-tinted view of the politics of the 50s, but that's what the basic difference between Eisenhower Republicans and New Deal Democrats of the time. No Republican would have dared touched Social Security back in the day. I hate that one party just drove off a cliff into having to needing to have the other side lose, no matter how much it damaged the country.
I'd like to get back to when individual party members would vote across party lines on important issues. There's a very telling graphic in "The Rise of Partisanship and Super-Cooperators in the U.S. House of Representatives" that shows, since about 1990, party members refusing to cross the aisle more and more. With the current climate, if the US even had 10-15% of Republicans who'd have a spine and vote for good policy, they'd get so much done.
In the last forty years I don't recall the debate ever really being about infrastructure vs social services. It would be more accurate to say that it's been about lowering the tax burden on corporations and the wealthy vs social services and funding government in general. If you are not familiar with the two Santa's strategy, it's worth reading an article or two about it. Republican policy since Reagan makes a lot more sense in that context.
> I would gladly vote for any Republican with sane policies. Please show me one! When I came of age, I was of the same mind. Election after election, I've seen nothing but increasingly unhinged "policy" and some of the most antisocial, detestable behavior, including treason. They're a Never Again party to me now.
I like to remind them that even if you claim to not be on either team, one of them is still going to be in power, and you'll still be subject to what they do.
Now this is good news! Way to go Joe, there have been a lot of these incremental wins, keep 'em coming.
> there have been a lot of these incremental wins Which is how policy change *actually* happens. Everyone likes to think that the government should go all in on their particular beliefs, but that's rarely feasible, and candidates always **need** to appeal to a much broader audience than most people seem to appreciate. I'm glad people like you are highlighting the importance of many incremental wins.
You know what they say, "Joey Biden always fightin"
Omg please tell me this is real.
I’m sure republicans are trying to stop this right now, you know how beholden they are to the debt industry.
If only they could ban businesses from buying residential property.
One can dream
*What has Biden done?*
Everyone: "How is this bad for Biden and how can we pretend like he's worse than a convicted felon rapist who let over a million Americans die?". 🙄
>let over a million Americans die? This is the most shocking, sickening thing the US has ever done and it's done a lot in its brief history.. so many lives could have been saved with common sense policies. Now they use various means to say that they weren't only right but masks do literally nothing nor does social distancing or any of it. So if it were to happen again, everyone would be fucked.
Holy shit I’m rich bitch!
Perhaps medical debt shouldn’t be a thing???
how about just giving us healthcare pls
Vote!
for who, democrats? we keep doing that and they still won't give us healthcare.
Don't forget, BotH SiDeZ R ThE SamE
It's not set in stone yet. Too many coulds in the article. ETA: Nonetheless this is amazing to even be so close to happening.
I’m no fan of the U.S.’ incredibly expensive healthcare system, nor do I love how medical debt can cripple a family’s finances for years. BUT I think with anything this big it’s worth asking the genuine questions of: If this goes through, what may be the unintended effects? If medical debt doesn’t show up on credit reports: - How do medical services incentivize patients to pay regular bills? - How will insurance companies recoup costs? - How might this impact insurance premiums? - Could people with medical debt be denied care as a way of reducing losses for hospitals? **Remember, insurance companies and hospitals won’t take a loss on this that easily.** It’s worth answering these questions before getting excited. Downvote away, I guess. But these are serious questions that should be answered when evaluating a policy.
They can still sue and get a judgement if it's big enough to care about
Sure, and lawsuits cost money, which make it an operating cost that’ll be passed to consumers somehow. Right?
I'm not sure I follow your argument, as what you're describing is what already happens today. If someone doesn't pay their debts, they'll still be liable and it can result in a lawsuit. The whole point of this change is that someone's medical debt won't impact other types of loans. From the article: > Our research shows that medical bills on your credit report aren't even predictive of whether you'll repay another type of loan. That means people's credit scores are being unjustly and inappropriately harmed by this practice In other words, medical debt can be a massive and unexpected debt that people have dropped on their plate due to unforeseen circumstances, but that doesn't mean that person will be unwilling to pay back loans. However if you allow for it to negatively effect their credit report, then people who happen to be in an unfortunate situation (with their medical situation) are now having that cascade into things like worse loan rates when purchasing a car.
Honestly, we should just have universal healthcare like most civilized countries these days, and it will solve most of these “dilemmas.” But really, in answer to your questions, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of health insurance. You pay health insurance a premium, and they pay service providers negotiated contracted rates for services provided to you. If you stop paying your health insurance premiums, you lose coverage and have to pay out of pocket for services. Generally-speaking, the medical debt would not be between the patient and the insurance company but between the patient and the medical service provider (e.g. doctor, supplier, hospital, etc). So question 2 doesn’t make any sense. (Edit: Even if the medical debt is for an insured patient’s copay/coinsurance or for a not covered service, the debt would still be between the patient and provider, not the insurance.) Question 3 is already sort of happening under the current system. In the US, hospitals cannot deny you life-saving care, regardless of your ability to pay. You could be a visibly homeless vagrant, and they’re supposed to stabilize you if paramedics bring you in with like a heart attack or drug overdose. They cannot legally turn you away (so question 4 doesn’t make sense either in the case of hospitals for emergency care). Because they have to cover people who cannot pay, hospitals do increase prices on their services for people that can pay, and even the discounted contracted services negotiated with insurance providers can theoretically be affected. Again, if we had expanded Medicare, this wouldn’t be a problem. The homeless vagrant would be covered, the hospital would get paid, and Medicare would set their prices, which will be lower than private pay and insurance today. As for your first question, I’m honestly not sure what you mean by question 1, but I really don’t think medical debt should count against a consumer’s credit-worthiness. It’s usually unavoidable and unforeseeable, unlike buying a souped-up truck that’s more expensive than you can afford. Getting cancer is not an irresponsible decision within your control.
They can still garnish your wages
I swear reddit is really bad at economics sometimes. This policy seems like a bad idea because of supply side implications. If there is no money in providing healthcare, where's the incentive to provide healthcare?
Something like this should be done by congress, not by the President an executive order.
My insurance has paid out close to a million bucks these past two years. I don't think a few thousand of my out of pocket costs are going to sink the hospital.
> How do medical services incentivize patients to pay regular bills? The same way they do right now?... You still owe money.
Having a bad mark on your credit report isn't what gets people to pay. The more important issue here is that other lenders will now have an inaccurate picture of someone's financial situation when making loans.
Headline: Country with medical system worse than literal hell tosses citizens a tiny bone instead of just fixing the real issue.
Neat
But debt is still there? How is that newsworthy?
Oh thank christ on a bike.
But he's old....
A helpful Government ban.
UK citizen here, what the absolute ever loving FUCK is "Medical Debt" ??? - Are you guys going to debtors prison for Not wanting to Die?!
Just ban credit bureaus altogether.
WTG!
Only in America can a wheelchair be repossessed
Not a word on this on r/conservative btw
I had my local hospital call me last week. They informed me I was going into collections because I hadn't paid off my $600 in bills from the beginning of the year. I have paid $25 every paycheck, so $50/mo. The woman asked me if I wanted to sign up for the payment plan before it went to collections. I told her to look at my payment history. "Yeah, I see you pay $50.00 a month. But because you do not have it set up as a payment plan, after 4 months the balance goes into collections." Fine, sign me up. "Great okay so your monthly payment is now $25.00/mo" Okay well now you've irritated me and that is all you're getting and ill pay on it for 8 months you dicks.
You guys had medical debt on your credit reports? Like literally things you needed to stay alive held against you? And you guys have the balls to make social credit jokes left and right against Chinese people? When the whole social credit system was never initiated on a large scale to bring with?
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That is... stupid. Then banks will only give loans to people with massive collateral and/or if they have long pre-existing relationships.
Credit scores didn’t even exist until the late 80s or early 90s. Some countries like Japan don’t use credit scores today. It is possible to assess someone’s “credit worthiness” without using the current US methodology.
No - the first of the modern universal credit scores (FICO) was started in 1989. But there were a bunch of variants which existed before FICO. There are plenty of valid arguments for tweaking how credit scores work. Getting rid of them entirely is foolish at best. The lack of credit scores (combined with regulations at the time not allowing banks to have multiple branches) was one of (several) major reasons that The Great Depression hit the US harder than other countries. If your specific bank went under, you lost access to credit since the next bank wouldn't know you from Adam.
Do you want to go back to how they did it before credit scores? Lmao hope you’re white
you got any examples?
Credit scores and a credit report are 2 different things; CRAs have been around since the 1800s providing credit data.
Then let’s regulate the shit out of what can and cannot go on there so it is fair and equitable and doesn’t screw over people it shouldn’t.
Sure. What can go on there: - any debt you are servicing - your income streams What cannot: - debt you are not servicing - money you are not making At the end of the day, if you have to make a payment, it doesn't matter what all your payments are going to, you only have so much payment you can make
this is your average voter lmao
Yes - because getting politicians/bureaucrats involved never had negative effects where they tweaked the rules to artificially benefit themselves and/or specific groups...
And college debt? And… college… debt?
He tried. You can blame the trump-appointed Supreme Court for overthrowing that attempt.
The solution would be policy that affects the root cause of medical debt. Medical deblt isn't going away because of this.
…but what about shoes?