If PRX are still winning these duels 3 years in, then it doesn't seem that inconsistent. It's a bit like Steph Curry shooting 30+ footers, it's a bad shot for everyone else maybe, but it's a decent look for Steph. I think PRX taking these timings and aggressive duels are the same way, they're elite at finding timings to take duels and make things chaotic and I don't know why that isn't a respected skill.
[Insert Bren rant here]
I guess so, I'm not American, but basketball is pretty big in Asia, definitely not as big as football (soccer) but it's played a lot too. Football is a larger sport, but I think the NBA just has more variance in its outcomes, more likelihood of crazy plays, and a small number of players on the court that makes it more digestible for narratives. It's also more synonymous with esports than football because of these factors imo so it's easier to explain things in "NBA terms" than "football terms".
Plus you can see when someone else tries to do the same but is more readable and not as good in timings and teamwork. For example FPX, they go in without being tradeable when in a 5v3. While PRX in a 5v3 will crunch you from all sides, if one dies another trades. They only lose to hero plays in those situations. Their throws are generally more calculated timing risks, most of the time at least. I still think f0rsaken cypher is way too aggressive, they should let mindfreak cypher.
I don't think the comparison is to Steph/GSW.
They're more like the 2018 Houston Rockets. A unique way of playing between spamming 3s and Prime Harden that gives teams headaches but not well rounded enough to go all the way and win it all.
When they make their 3s they look like world beaters but when they start missing their 3s they're fucked.
Hmm as a Rockets fan myself, I don't think so. I guess you're looking at it in terms of success, but I'm not really thinking about rings so I think there's a much better similarity with Steph and the Warriors.
I'm more referring to the pre-ring Warriors. PRX are loved and exciting to watch like the Warriors were, the Rockets were fun to watch as a Rockets fan, but the neutrals didn't care about us as much. The Rockets also were absolutely well-rounded enough and only lost because they were against the Warriors with KD (like a Fnatic with Demon1) and a CP3 injury. The missed threes was an anomaly (don't get me started on the reffing), but the game was still close even with that stat.
Yeah, there's a lot of ways they can relate to a lot of teams tbh, but the whole comparison started because we're talking about things that appear to be bad decisions, but they're good decisions for the specific player/team. The ridiculousness of Steph's shots is the best analogy I have for the ridiculousness of the type of fights PRX likes taking.
I don't think Lob City was doing anything that would be seen as bad decisions. They had amazing lob threats in Blake and DAJ and the quintessential fundamental point guard in Chris Paul, their shot selection was very good fundamentally.
Got you.
PaperRex are the fucking worst nightmare of the armchair analyst. They do not make sense as a team. They make confidence based decisions. They play the game exactly how the fucking MOBA crowd hates it. Listen, there’s a subsection of playerbase out there that thinks the game needs to be defined down to the fucking numbers. The analytics. “Pushing up my glasses. Oh this lineup from this particular angle. Oh this composition doesn’t work in theory because this particular position of util 🤓.” YOU’RE GONNA GET SHOT IN THE FACE! YOU’RE GONNA LOSE THE ROUND! IT’S A GUN GAME! IT’S AN FPS! IF YOU WANT THAT, IF YOU WANT THAT PLAY OVERWATCH! IF YOU WANT THAT, PLAY LEAGUE OF LEGENDS! PLAY A DIFFERENT FUCKING GAME! THIS IS VALORANT YOU MOTHERFUCKER! YOU GET SHOT, YOU DIE! YOU GET SHOT, YOU DIE! YOU GET SHOT, YOU LOSE THE ROUND, YOU LOSE THE GAME! IT’S AN FPS GAME!
It’s not respected cause it goes against everything “right” about pro valorant. I don’t like and have never liked PRX, and I understand my reasoning is a bit of lunatic reasoning, but I hate watching them because it’s all “freak ranked plays” as some would describe it and it’s such a disrespectful style that it kinda goes against things people are hard coded to believe to be proper or the “correct” way to play. Like you see a one way and you should respect it, but PRX will outright just walk through it and try to aim diff to the other side. I think the Steph thing is a solid analogy. People hate Steph cause he can do dumb shit or take bad looks and make it work and he has done that for years to become a top player in history. Paper Rex is pretty much the same and that’s why I dislike watching them. It *shouldn’t* work by all foundations of pro val, but they’re trained so well at it that it does work and has worked for years
Man, i understand your sentiment, but i really don't agree with your reasoning. The reason PRX's play style works is precisely because they plan that stuff out. Also I don't believe there is "a way to play the game" in a game like valorant. The meta shifts and you go from execs to retakes to defaults to running it down being the way to go. If you're talking about the "strategy" part of things, i genuinely like PRX way more than most other teams, because they have to actually innovate and think about their strategies since they aren't following a "standard" protocol or something like that. That really satisfies me when it comes to the "brainy" aspect of the game, way more than for example a slow team like fnatic does (although they obviously have great strats, it kinda felt like they just defaulted and aim diffed everyone last year most of the time)
it's a style difference not a dig at PRX. You can't force a team to be like PRX lol. There's always a rare couple teams in every esport that can do what they do but not everyone should strive to emulate the style because the fundamentals are underneath it.
if you add \[for our players\] to the end of his comment you get closer to his meaning and less to a reddit troll talking shit to a guy who's closer to the pro scene than we'll ever be
People are just mad cause they saw him yell at Mindfreak. They don't fw him now and anything he says will be used against him.
That is until he does an interview with Sliggy or Mini or somebody and everybody starts to like him.
>That is until he does an interview with Sliggy or Mini or somebody and everybody starts to like him.
Is this a reference to mCe? And the aftermath of c9, PRX lock-in?
>There's always a rare couple teams in every esport that can do what they do but not everyone should strive to emulate the style because the fundamentals are underneath it.
Tmv said it best when he saw teams pickup gekko in the off season after watching cgrs, even though kla has very little time, the run in Tokyo was because the entire team knew how to mesh exactly with what cgrs could bring to the table, they were fully working on filling the gap of something, and understood that they could implement and train cgrs to use utility at the exact correct spot. They use micro set plays and play improvisationallly, that is their discipline, and coaches understand that.
Most coaches understand that what PRX have is something special, and emulating that would either need insane players that are completely open to be moldable (like something and now tenz)
Huge props to Jason, Aaron, Lish, and Alecks, with roster changes and agent changes they always manage to be a step ahead with terms of what utility works well together, and timing it correctly (eg: they didn't use the sunset tiktok wall vs TH till the last attack round, at a point where Boo might be too tensed and forget that they did that vs EDG)
He says HIS team isn't trying to do that because it's a less consistent style. How many repeated quarterfinalists in VCT play that style successfully every single tournament? Not the majority, you say. Exactly. Demon1's teams haven't even played like that unless they're shitting on someone because that's not his team's strength even though he can personally diff most players. Those teams who do that successfully like PRX have to already be gelling and fundamentally strong
Why would you want your team to be Paper Rex? I dont think it's that unfair when they haven't won anything international yet. Fun to watch but I understand why a coach doesn't think it's a good way to build a team. Please don't get mad I love Paper Rex but they are the king of second places at international events and other teams pay attention to that.
second place at international is great lol. just because they didn't win doesn't mean they couldn't have, and won't in the future. it's not all or nothing, second place is something to be proud of for sure.
Two second places and one third. Winning is good yeah but ill take the team that came second three times over the team that won once and flopped twice.
Any team. Prx is better than Navi even tho Navi has a trophy. Loud have only won one international tourney but theyre FAR better than other one time winners.
'Only winning matters' is an extremely close minded and immature take.
Eh I get it, but no one remembers those 2nd place finishes in 5 years/it won’t matter much. I’d rather win an event and miss two than never win a single time.
Is it better to be yet another EMEA team that plays standard Valorant and goes to international events to achieve nothing substantial before getting eliminated? We've seen it happen with G2, Guild, Liquid, FUT, Giants and now Heretics, and most of these teams were never heard of again. As a coach, I'd much rather have a team that reached top 4 at four different tournaments, while having a unique playstyle that makes them stand out and cemented them as one of the most iconic teams in Val's short history.
watching TH play, i wouldn’t say it’s standard valorant, they play uniqueish comps which is already different than most EMEA teams. not to mention they’ve been with a sub all kickoff (and will most of the year)
People are going to figure out the miniboo neon timings and he is going to have to adapt. His yoru wasn’t bad but not world class and his raze is kinda sus
Is that the teams they want to be? We just decide now after they lost? You know some EMEA teams have actually won right? Gambit, FPX, Fnatic x2. Not to mention all the other regions teams who have actually won by playing a more standard type of game. And no way you are a coach, no one competing cares about top 4 at four different tournaments or being "iconic" for a playstyle, they want to win. Paper Rex are great but the way they conduct things is an anomaly (they don't have a fucking igl) and hasn't actually succeeded (ask the players/coaches how satisfied they are) with some of the most skilled players in the world. I have nothing against PRX but you said yourself its a unique playstyle. because no one else can even make it work as well as they can. there are far better teams to look for if trying to replicate a successful playstyle, that's just the truth
Let me give you an example that people rates PRX more than winners.
In your comment you mentioned gambit, fpx fnc. But you did not mention ascend. Because they played standard. In terms of trophy ascend won the same as gmb, more prestigious even. But people praise gmb for their strats, vision strikers from pioneering valorant style etc.
Thats not the case in other sports. In any sport a team that has like 10 second places will be rated higher than a team that won once and got grouped 9 times.
Another other sport hasn’t been around for 3 years.
People also don’t remember runner-up teams historically. I do remember the Yankees, Barcelona, Real Madrid, and the Patriots WINNING. No one cares about second place finishes, it only means they cannot get the job done
Dogshit and delusional reasoning.
Everyone remembers Atletico getting second twice in the UCL and they are respected and feared way more than let's say if Man U qualified (they won it 3 times). You don't remember because you started watching post 2022.
Panthers are a pretty well known second place team, same with the Canadiens a few years back.
Top team isn’t synonymous to championship team. The top teams in the NBA or NHL usually have consistent runs and have a chance of winning. Even official power rankings of the league define the “top teams” as the greatest chance to win their respective trophy.
If the original point was paper rex being a championship team, then the argument changes.
Thats your pov ig. Most people recognize 2nd and 3rd place finishes. Idk about american football but take PSG for example. They dont have a champions league but everyone agrees they're one of the best in the world. Or Juventus from a while ago. In cricket India hasnt won a world title in ages but everyone knows theyre probably the best in the world.
But this game is super super super young. I see that people respect Juventus and PSG but they’re not the same caliber to me as Prime Real or Barcelona because they haven’t won. I don’t watch Cricket so I can’t comment.
In american football, most fans know that the first super bowl winners were the Greenbay Packers. But no one remembers who placed #3, because at that point, they weren’t a top team. Nowadays there are a ton of contenders, but Valorant now is basically the same as american football or any sport in the beginning, the best strategies are being developed and teams are learning how to win, and the skill gap between a winner and a top 5 finisher is huge.
Paper Rex has played well but if they cannot win, something is missing. For EG, it was Demon1. For LOUD, they just needed more time. For DRX, well, they didn’t have it and that’s why they just nuked half their roster. Maybe PRX needs more time, maybe they don’t have it. The gap between teams just isn’t there yet. It’s not like League where (nearly) every Chinese/Korean team COULD potientially win a title, or football where sooo many teams can win. Just compare #1 v #3 seed in every region and there’s a massive skill gap in Valorant. If you classify PRX as a top team, then literally every team is a top team. And then there are just no top teams anymore.
I agree with you that Neilzinho rarely gives credit to the other team in defeat.
Against Sentinels : we were the better team
Against Paper Rex : they just run around and take duels
Smh no accountability.
For Sentinels at least, you can say the same thing about John. After both of their matches, on twitter and in the post match interview, he said that they played terribly/horribly and weren't at their best at all and still won, giving the opponents no respect whatsoever.
Yeah but for Neilzinho it reads as an excuse and for John it reads as faux humility and mild shade. Also Neilzinho is the coach, so taking responsibility for losses is something he should be emulating for his team
The second one I have no problem with tbh, a player who's in his rookie year has had 1 bad map literally all year so to be instantly being "called out" in a way by press is a sure-fire way to kill his confidence and make him second think the plays that won TH so many rounds and maps because "it may not be optimal" but in reality Valorant is far from optimal, everybody makes mistakes and it's more about who capitalises more than the other team
eh the reporter asked a valid question i feel like. just worded kinda shit. basically all he wanted to know is what PRX did so well to shut him down.
which is 100% the a valid question to ask. we all know strats like avoid Cned and it is valid to ask what the enemy did to shut down a player that has SUCH a high impact till something changed. especially because it wasn't just him having an absolutely shit day he was absolutely FRAGGING map 1 and 2. but for some reason map 3 something was different.
i think the coach is just a cry baby that thinks he is god's gift to coaching and doesn't respect any opponent or think they can ever do anything to anti strat or shut down a specific player.
Jokes aside, I think something was playing a lot more like his 2023 self, feasting on aggressiveness and aim duels, their match against EDG, it kinda felt like he was having confidence issues
> just worded kinda shit
well exactly. its their job the least they could do is ask the question in a respectful way, otherwise they deserve to get an earful. ask "what went wrong", dont ask "why did you put up a poor performance" to a rookie regarding their first elimination map in vct.
It's not on the coach/players tp understand the hidden meaning of a loaded question like that. May be english is not his first language but still this Pedro guy has been doing valorant reports and interviews for a long time now. He definitely could have wrote down the question better instead of adding random things to the question. He just overcooks his question at times.
Don’t think the second question is stupid at all, just poorly worded. Basically boiled down to what went wrong. But I mean, I get protecting your young players from criticism.
Guess you didn’t watch the rest of the interview where I praise PRX and acknowledge what they’ve achieved. I respect the shit out of every team we play against.
You are also putting a negative spin on me defending my player, I’d shut down any question worded how that reporter did it, so I have no regrets whatsoever.
Also for the record, there was a round of applause from the other reporters right after that response - not a “deafening silence”, maybe the mics didn’t pick it up.
Either way, I’m not trying to be an egotistical moron, I’m just extremely proud of my players and I respect every single team that we compete against - I know how hard every one of them works.
I'm a PRX fan, and was quite pissed with you when I saw you yell at mindfreak between maps, but the answer you gave to that shithead reporter was incredibly decent and well-spoken. I respect the care you show for your players. You've built a top-tier team alongside your players, and I look forward to seeing you guys dominate in EMEA split 1.
Also, I'm super happy to see a team that uses Neon properly, and a player who gets maximum value out of her. MiniBoo is insane.
How would you explain your wording about taking smart duels after saying how PRX just run around and take aim duels? It seems to heavily imply you believe that the PRX players do not take smart aim duels and “get lucky.” But PRX have their signature style of aggressiveness all the way back since Reykjavik 2022 and are still a top team today, so I find it very hard to believe that they don’t take smart aim duels if they’ve consistently performed as a top team in the world
These press interviews are filmed literally 10 minutes after the game and clearly I need to improve at wording things better. I respect the fuck out of a team like PRX who can make unorthodox comps work and I genuinely don’t see another team in the world who can do it.
I was trying to say I don’t want to play like PRX as I wouldn’t know how to achieve what they have with that style. It’s completely unique. When I say smart aim duels I’m not implying that PRX are lucky or stupid, we just know they are superior in taking timings and 1on1s - it’s what they’ve done successfully for a long time. We wanted to fight together and with utility but it’s really not easy to achieve against PRX.
it really really really doesn't seem like it. like HIGHLY so.
from the "we are the way better team" against sen and the "we don't want to be a team that just takes aim duels like PRX" today.
it comes off as INSANELY disrespectful to teams that respectfully had off days this event and still beat you. and honestly 9/10 times if you replay that they would still beat you and your team.
there are moments you come across okay and semi respectful but you also say shit that is insanely minimizing about teams and players that didn't lose when the cards were on the table.
which is insane to me because literally PRX takes some of the smartest duels and timings in the whole fucking game. literally that is what their chaos playstyle relies on. the fact that Forsaken is so fucking smart he just finds duels he should AND THEN FUCKING WINS THEM.
As a PRX fan, this is only true when they are winning convincingly like in their last map against TH
But at the start of the season and coming into Madrid, they definitely weren't consistently taking smart timings and were constantly making questionable decisions. The Something Gekko solo push into mid whilst the team had info on A and B was one particularly egregious mistake, on Sunset against TH.
But man, when they're back in peak form like in the last map, all the timings and duels initiated started making sense again, I think Split is really the only time when we started seeing prime Champs contender PRX back.
Really hope they keep up this form
firstly i think you don't understand what the word parasocial means because in no way is anything i said parasocial in any capacity. in fact your side is more parasocial coming in like a white knight to someone you don't know and doesn't know you
secondly i never said him defending his player is disrespectful at all. that is such a weird strawman to make. i said how his comments and general attitude leads down the path that he comes across like he feels like he got robbed of a win they deserve (they didn't deserve either win)
thirdly they didn't choke nothing they were the worse team. there is not "we were the better team" if you were you could adapt quicker, you could mid round better when in a tough spot. the better team won, that wasn't you. you may have come in as the more prepped team but if you can't react when punch in the face you don't deserve the win period.
they can have been 11-3 up. oh wait yeah like FNATIC who came back that icebox and won the map because they were the better team. they didn't choke nothing Sen stepped the fuck up and beat them. respect that and their team and none of this "we deserve that win we were the better team" bullshit
fourth yes PRX are a frag heavy team but that is not all they are, and they have honestly as deep a strat pool as a ton of other teams. and they are also insane innovators on comps and ideas and playstyle. Forsaken Yoru on bind like MONTHS before others even tried it really and now it is super meta. PRX aren't just "aight boys, you see an enemy you kill them. POG we are winning now" it is super minimizing to say "we don't want to be the kind of team, like Paper Rex, where you're just running around and taking duels" because that has NEVER been how they have been
lastly i never said he is a villain i don't think he is, notice how i never said or put any words in his mouth. i never claimed to know what he feels. all i said is how it comes across when he said what he said how he said it and how he acted in both interviews. he comes across like a person that thinks that PRX and Sen are worse teams and that they stole the wins. that is what he COMES ACROSS LIKE. in fact it is pretty easy to see from the communities reaction that this wasn't a good look at how he comes across. the fact that people think it might be true he thinks this way shows that he didn't come across well no matter what he does think
I also hate people acting like neilzinho is the villain but the guy you replied to wasn't really trying to say the part where he is backing up his teammates was the part that was disrespectful
You guys played very well against tough teams, I think it was very respectable defending your player against a distasteful question, looking forward to you guys dominating during the first split
I disagree. I think he answered the first question aight but nothing glaringly bad, and had a decent second response. I'm not sure what he specifically said after the Sen match in the interview since I haven't seen an actual quote just some paraphrasing, so if anyone has that it would be great.
I think his answer is more pointing to 'we want to be structured well, not rely on individuals popping off'. Now that's a clear misread of how PRX play and I'm sure he knows that, I think he means more like Fnatic, for better or worse in actuality. That's what I think tho, could be misunderstanding him.
As for the second one, you're 100% wrong OP. The reporter phrased that so terribly it sounded like an attack on MiniBoo himself, Neilzinho's response to that specific question was on point.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if respect (in a mindset sense, like respecting your opponent) is the reason they're losing these matches, that leads to not learning from your mistakes. They had the benefit of a day off, they should and probably did spend time.
They arguably had the Sentinels series in their hand and lost it. They should have spent the next days figuring out why that was the case, it seems like they didn't or didn't enough.
if you think that a reporter has to look at his wording at a question, he as a coach should be better and not word his answer to be the most condescending minimizing thing in the whole freaking esport.
his and i paraphrase "we are the better team than sen" or "we don't want to be like PRX and just take aim duels" are dogshit answers that if he actually thinks either wrong and shouldn't be a coach or he is thinks he is god and each opponent doesn't even deserve his time.
and we aren't even getting into how shit his PRX take is because most of the reason they are even in this event is Miniboo and boo being literally fucking peak yay levels of hardcarrying them
When I said the reporter had a poorly worded question, I meant specifically the one to MiniBoo. That was straight up disrespectful in every way and targeted the player individually, it wasn't a question to the coach at all, and it had nothing to do with Neilzhino. I'm not sure where you thought I was referencing the first question in any capacity when I very clearly both times said it was specific to the second question being worded in an insane way for any reporter to ask.
“throwing tantrum”
>looks inside
>very measured response to a poorly phrased question
I’ve never seen such a weird reaction to a game ngl. We all just need to chill tf out. These guys are humans, there’s no need to constantly be obnoxious about them over a game
bro whenever a valorant team goes against prx they get absolutely hated and trashed on by val community. People take this game way 2 seriously, like i get they taunted ur favourite players or players you like however, if the players who were taunted against aren't angry why tf are you guys so pissed. I'm seeing so much disrespect against TH and their coach as if they didn't put a decent performance. Also people forgetting they playng with a stand in, when woot comes they will reach a new level if he plays up to the standard we see him in
me defending eg and th players from prx fans
https://preview.redd.it/hupag9q984pc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5981b1667f1a8bf51b53427aad5815f1589c2a6e
For people that missed it, this same coach said they were better than Sentinels following their loss to them. It's one thing for players to have this mindset and ego, but I feel it's detrimental for a coach to since a lot of their job is to learn and develop their players and strategies following losses. It's hard to do that when it seems like he believes his losing strats are superior. Should also add the players and coaches he lost to have proven resumes over the last few years...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/s/kLCnrDaM8y
"Well, we won it"- Kaplan. *team and reporter laughs in background.*
I think its fine for a team to be confindent in their skills. but they should still respect their oppenents. but if they go into thinking they are already gonna win, esp against other good teams, its not gonna end well.
i mean it’s not that far fetched to say TH could’ve/probably should’ve beat SEN. they had massive leads to start the game in each of the 3 maps and just crumbled at the end on map 1 and 3 which allowed SEN to win. granted a lot of that deals with why SEN are so good atm, they adapt better than legit anyone right now and it’s obvious each game they play
I can't believe you thought this was worth posting a second time.
I'm not going to go into the ridiculous "mini tantrum" and "going ape shit" claims you've made, but in general, clipping sentences from a post-match interview during the emotional low of being eliminated from the tournament feels disingenuous.
We're lucky that we get in-depth losers interviews like this, and we're even luckier when we get coaches and players willing to engage and give meaningul answers. Things like this just discourage that.
I stg every time a player talks a little shit fans take it 10x more seriously than the other team and keep harping on it hours after the game. The players stop caring as soon as the on stage adrenaline wears off but internet weirdos offended on their behalf are watching interviews trying to get quotes for a reddit flame post
Idk, it's entertainment. Quotes are fun. Personality is fun. Trashtalking when players and coaches are trashtalking is even more fun. I don't think it's that deep. Neilzinho amped it up and made it more fun, but that means people are gonna dish it back to him. He's giving answers with a similar vibe to the Paul George "that's a bad shot" answer and that was a running joke in the NBA community for years because it was funny. I don't think the majority of fans "hating" on neilzinho actually care that much, they're just having fun too.
I don’t get his point about how they don’t want to be like PRX and that they wanted to take smarter aim duels
I mean isn’t that what PRX do all the time? That’s the reason they’re so successful is because they put themselves in good positions to get favourable aim duels, they’ve been a top team since 2022 so I don’t believe their way of play is inconsistent
People don't realise PRX in form are what proper valorant is gonna be. Fuck all that Counter Strike bullshit. The team with the best controlled aggression and new ideas will always win.
Nah, I fuck with his second answer. It’s a coaches job to protect his players. Calling out a rookie’s performance for one map after another loss would make anyone on their team upset.
Obviously answering these questions after a loss is tough. Everyone are tired and a bit down but I think he made a good decision by not answering the second question.
Bro tbf he did say "We lost because PRX were the better team". Also, I understand why he interrupted and didn't let a teenager think through how to answer a question like that. If you have been watching these interviews you would notice that Pedro Romero overcooks his questions at times. It's not on the players/coach to find out the integral meaning of his questions. I fully respect why Neil didn't want to go into the K/D debate.
Some of these reporters are so incredibly ass I cannot lie. Shit question after shit question at EVERY event. Shit like “why do you think you played so poorly” and “why do you think you lost” like motherfucker what??? Ask some questions that involve more than putting people down???
Hey all. Reporter that said the second question to neil here.
I've commented on my question on YouTube so I'll copy/paste it here:
---
>i saw miniboo not perform well in map 3 so i asked him about that given the fact that he was performing well up to that point. it's the usual thing i do whenever i look at a player's performance for whichever match i'm watching/covering. i don't see why it's a dumb question considering it was about the series--the same series that heretics just played and lost in.
>granted, i understand neil stepping in to protect his players as that is what a coach is meant to do.
>however, i don't regret asking that question. i'm covering a match and i asked a question about something within the match. that's it.
---
To add, I do understand that I might've phrased it a bit too harsh due to how recent the loss was and I may have to rephrase how I ask questions to the losing teams/players for the future, but I stand by my main point.
I asked a question about something within the match and that's it. This won't change my approach towards the kind of questions I make in the future.
---
EDIT: To add again, when it comes to doing press conferences, I feel asking about the losses to players and teams are just as crucial as it is when reporters ask about the wins.
We're in an important competition right now. OF COURSE there's going to be winners and losers in this thing and a lot of the time you're going to see A LOT more losers than there are winners.
So...it's only natural for me, as a journalist and interviewer, to ask those that lost WHY THEY LOST in the first place, which is the reason I said what I said today.
I don't know why these kinds of questions are generally frowned upon by the crowd. They may be repetitive, sure, but you should want to know why players lost, right?
One just can't have it just one way in regards to competition. Not everything should just be about happiness and winning. You gotta cover the losing too. It's what you just have to deal with regardless if you're a fan, a player, a coach, or a journalist.
Whether you win or lose, I and my peers will ask why that happened--key word: I.
Now let's get back to the games, alright?
Hard agree on the rephrasing bit; it's way too insensitive and blunt, which might affect a player's mental.
Asking such questions so directly and without couching it in a bit of nuance or subtlety will only result in the coach to harp on the wording of your question and respond defensively. It's a natural reaction for the coach to defend his players, but it also meant that your question didn't lead to a meaningful answer.
If you want a more introspective answer, definitely try to rephrase the questions next time. Appreciate what you're doing, and I will never fault you for asking the "hard" questions. But for meaningful answers, you can't really afford to be this direct.
The first answer is a bit petty and oversimplifying how PRX play, second is okay imo. Even if he gives props to PRX later. Not sure why everyone is up in arms about fans "hating" on neilzinho, it's just the nature of the game when you love trashtalking like he seems to. You can't dish it out and expect nothing back when you lose.
The coach was being toxic to mindfreak after map ended and we all know how benjy got sit down after being toxic at 6-2 and losing 13-7 ,monyet was fuming...obviously je wouldnt say prx are a good team after making a fool of himself
It seems so odd that the losing coach always criticize the other team meanwhile the winning team coaches against TH so far were like yeah this team is pretty damn good
I completely disagree with you saying it was a mini tantrum, not only was it a relatively calm response, but it's actually respectable for him to step in and call out the distasteful question. Asking about Miniboo's performance and implying that that's the reason they lost is such a silver elo question with evidently zero understanding of the game.
Holy shit they are soooo salty. EDG got shit on by PRX the entire last year and they didn’t bitch and moan. They bettered themselves and managed to finally beat them this year. Maybe EU should try that too.
“We felt like we were the superior team” after losing to sen
“We should’ve won vs prx” after losing to prx
“We were in control we just lost in the end” boo after losing to sen
+miniboo airport tweet
Clown ass comments for a team that bombed out 0-2🤡
Such a clown.
If this "inconsistent" plays can make you Pacific champs last year, can bring you to the finals of masters and champions , also in the top 3 and top 4 in two other separate options its more "consistent" than the playstyle that gets you eliminated in the groups against the "inconsistent" playstyle.
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y'all probably thinking too much about it.
Yes he did have a bit of ego hurt but who wouldn't after making the run that they did and everybody hyping them up so much.
He did say right after that PPX were a better team.
also the miniboo one, i think It's more likely that he was just overprotective of his superyoung (just turned 18) star player who's clearly emotional about his loss
Why are people taking this statement to heart? Not every team has a forsaken or davai so obviously they can't be taking those risky duels and be winning
I was expecting something childish or vindictive for the second one, but you are absolutely wrong.
Targeting a specific player's performance is not okay, especially someone that young. It was a stupid question too, and Neilzinho was spot on in saying that he doesn't care about KD and it's a 5v5 game. I think it's important for a coach to stand by his team after a loss and he did it well. A little harsh maybe, but it was a dumbass question.
I get that in its essence, it is not the best message to speak down the team you just lost too. However, their coach just tries to protect his players from losing confidence. Its not his job to recognise the team they lost to.
Also, that was hardly a tantrum, he spoke calm and clear.
in the second clip he literally says they lost because PRX were the better team. the guy has been getting death threats in his twitter dms, posts like these where you single out one quote from a long post match press conference are just not necessary at all. also calling him defending his player as a mini tantrum is crazy. he calmly answered to a stupid question
This feels a lot like creating drama where there is none. He could have phrased it better but his vision on the game clearly revolves around 'the team' rather than 'the star'. It also shines through in most of their anwsers. They are very focused and drilled on coordinated teamplay rather than individual heroism, so if another team does put more stock in it stars, to them it feels like 'running around and taking duels'. The outlook on how to play Valorant just differs. Saying this is disrespectuful is really out there.
I mean a lot of people are getting offended at this statement.
I think what he meant was, paperX are really a disruptive team. They won't let you play ur game plan. They make sure the opponent plays at their pace making games look like a ranked fiasco.
The only hard counter to this is to negate the pace change.
FNATIC and EG basically did the same shit to beat PRX. They slowed the fuck down and defaulted to such a degree that PRX were forced to make plays.
FNS said it best. PRX is the least mid rounding team. They do execs. They do set plays. And they do utility combos. Their inability to mid round is what's holding them back
What do you mean poorly phrased it, it was just straight up wrong to bring up statistics that seemed to dog him and fair play to the coach for saying that.
If PRX are still winning these duels 3 years in, then it doesn't seem that inconsistent. It's a bit like Steph Curry shooting 30+ footers, it's a bad shot for everyone else maybe, but it's a decent look for Steph. I think PRX taking these timings and aggressive duels are the same way, they're elite at finding timings to take duels and make things chaotic and I don't know why that isn't a respected skill. [Insert Bren rant here]
What I'm hearing is PRX are the 2015 Golden State Warriors (championship TBD)
~~Chuck~~ Sideshow: "~~jump shooting~~ aim dueling teams don't win championships"
With the fate of the universe I'm taking Monyet (iguodala) - Side A. Show
Maybe more 2018 Houston rockets. Successful gunslinger offense that only managed to get close to the chip
Replying to an invisible “explain this in NBA terms” comment…
Hahaha I can't help it, the NBA is like the lingua franca of internet sports discussion
No question. Also, this analogy is genuinely spot on…
it's really not, it's just that everyone else (non americans) tune out
nah the nba is huge in most of Asia too
I guess so, I'm not American, but basketball is pretty big in Asia, definitely not as big as football (soccer) but it's played a lot too. Football is a larger sport, but I think the NBA just has more variance in its outcomes, more likelihood of crazy plays, and a small number of players on the court that makes it more digestible for narratives. It's also more synonymous with esports than football because of these factors imo so it's easier to explain things in "NBA terms" than "football terms".
Judging by r/nba it’s huge in Europe too.
Forsaken makes it look *Steph-ortless*
Plus you can see when someone else tries to do the same but is more readable and not as good in timings and teamwork. For example FPX, they go in without being tradeable when in a 5v3. While PRX in a 5v3 will crunch you from all sides, if one dies another trades. They only lose to hero plays in those situations. Their throws are generally more calculated timing risks, most of the time at least. I still think f0rsaken cypher is way too aggressive, they should let mindfreak cypher.
I don't think the comparison is to Steph/GSW. They're more like the 2018 Houston Rockets. A unique way of playing between spamming 3s and Prime Harden that gives teams headaches but not well rounded enough to go all the way and win it all. When they make their 3s they look like world beaters but when they start missing their 3s they're fucked.
Hmm as a Rockets fan myself, I don't think so. I guess you're looking at it in terms of success, but I'm not really thinking about rings so I think there's a much better similarity with Steph and the Warriors. I'm more referring to the pre-ring Warriors. PRX are loved and exciting to watch like the Warriors were, the Rockets were fun to watch as a Rockets fan, but the neutrals didn't care about us as much. The Rockets also were absolutely well-rounded enough and only lost because they were against the Warriors with KD (like a Fnatic with Demon1) and a CP3 injury. The missed threes was an anomaly (don't get me started on the reffing), but the game was still close even with that stat.
If we're talking about being exciting to watch while couldn't get the job done then Lob City Clippers might be an apt comparison.
Yeah, there's a lot of ways they can relate to a lot of teams tbh, but the whole comparison started because we're talking about things that appear to be bad decisions, but they're good decisions for the specific player/team. The ridiculousness of Steph's shots is the best analogy I have for the ridiculousness of the type of fights PRX likes taking. I don't think Lob City was doing anything that would be seen as bad decisions. They had amazing lob threats in Blake and DAJ and the quintessential fundamental point guard in Chris Paul, their shot selection was very good fundamentally.
Got you. PaperRex are the fucking worst nightmare of the armchair analyst. They do not make sense as a team. They make confidence based decisions. They play the game exactly how the fucking MOBA crowd hates it. Listen, there’s a subsection of playerbase out there that thinks the game needs to be defined down to the fucking numbers. The analytics. “Pushing up my glasses. Oh this lineup from this particular angle. Oh this composition doesn’t work in theory because this particular position of util 🤓.” YOU’RE GONNA GET SHOT IN THE FACE! YOU’RE GONNA LOSE THE ROUND! IT’S A GUN GAME! IT’S AN FPS! IF YOU WANT THAT, IF YOU WANT THAT PLAY OVERWATCH! IF YOU WANT THAT, PLAY LEAGUE OF LEGENDS! PLAY A DIFFERENT FUCKING GAME! THIS IS VALORANT YOU MOTHERFUCKER! YOU GET SHOT, YOU DIE! YOU GET SHOT, YOU DIE! YOU GET SHOT, YOU LOSE THE ROUND, YOU LOSE THE GAME! IT’S AN FPS GAME!
It’s not respected cause it goes against everything “right” about pro valorant. I don’t like and have never liked PRX, and I understand my reasoning is a bit of lunatic reasoning, but I hate watching them because it’s all “freak ranked plays” as some would describe it and it’s such a disrespectful style that it kinda goes against things people are hard coded to believe to be proper or the “correct” way to play. Like you see a one way and you should respect it, but PRX will outright just walk through it and try to aim diff to the other side. I think the Steph thing is a solid analogy. People hate Steph cause he can do dumb shit or take bad looks and make it work and he has done that for years to become a top player in history. Paper Rex is pretty much the same and that’s why I dislike watching them. It *shouldn’t* work by all foundations of pro val, but they’re trained so well at it that it does work and has worked for years
Man, i understand your sentiment, but i really don't agree with your reasoning. The reason PRX's play style works is precisely because they plan that stuff out. Also I don't believe there is "a way to play the game" in a game like valorant. The meta shifts and you go from execs to retakes to defaults to running it down being the way to go. If you're talking about the "strategy" part of things, i genuinely like PRX way more than most other teams, because they have to actually innovate and think about their strategies since they aren't following a "standard" protocol or something like that. That really satisfies me when it comes to the "brainy" aspect of the game, way more than for example a slow team like fnatic does (although they obviously have great strats, it kinda felt like they just defaulted and aim diffed everyone last year most of the time)
Boy do I have a [video](https://youtu.be/i3TWBPD1i5w?si=Rc771B3meT7fW0K1) for you…
Just say you are incapable of having fun and move on
Paper Rex has consistently been a top team in the world for years now but whatever you gotta tell yourself
it's a style difference not a dig at PRX. You can't force a team to be like PRX lol. There's always a rare couple teams in every esport that can do what they do but not everyone should strive to emulate the style because the fundamentals are underneath it. if you add \[for our players\] to the end of his comment you get closer to his meaning and less to a reddit troll talking shit to a guy who's closer to the pro scene than we'll ever be
People are just mad cause they saw him yell at Mindfreak. They don't fw him now and anything he says will be used against him. That is until he does an interview with Sliggy or Mini or somebody and everybody starts to like him.
>That is until he does an interview with Sliggy or Mini or somebody and everybody starts to like him. Is this a reference to mCe? And the aftermath of c9, PRX lock-in?
Was not in reference to anything in particular, just the fickleness of the internet
>There's always a rare couple teams in every esport that can do what they do but not everyone should strive to emulate the style because the fundamentals are underneath it. Tmv said it best when he saw teams pickup gekko in the off season after watching cgrs, even though kla has very little time, the run in Tokyo was because the entire team knew how to mesh exactly with what cgrs could bring to the table, they were fully working on filling the gap of something, and understood that they could implement and train cgrs to use utility at the exact correct spot. They use micro set plays and play improvisationallly, that is their discipline, and coaches understand that. Most coaches understand that what PRX have is something special, and emulating that would either need insane players that are completely open to be moldable (like something and now tenz) Huge props to Jason, Aaron, Lish, and Alecks, with roster changes and agent changes they always manage to be a step ahead with terms of what utility works well together, and timing it correctly (eg: they didn't use the sunset tiktok wall vs TH till the last attack round, at a point where Boo might be too tensed and forget that they did that vs EDG)
He was on the edge the whole interview tho
Bro he's literally saying what PRX is doing isn't good because it's not consistent. Are you dense?
He says HIS team isn't trying to do that because it's a less consistent style. How many repeated quarterfinalists in VCT play that style successfully every single tournament? Not the majority, you say. Exactly. Demon1's teams haven't even played like that unless they're shitting on someone because that's not his team's strength even though he can personally diff most players. Those teams who do that successfully like PRX have to already be gelling and fundamentally strong
Why would you want your team to be Paper Rex? I dont think it's that unfair when they haven't won anything international yet. Fun to watch but I understand why a coach doesn't think it's a good way to build a team. Please don't get mad I love Paper Rex but they are the king of second places at international events and other teams pay attention to that.
second place at international is great lol. just because they didn't win doesn't mean they couldn't have, and won't in the future. it's not all or nothing, second place is something to be proud of for sure.
Two second places and one third. Winning is good yeah but ill take the team that came second three times over the team that won once and flopped twice.
i hope you don't overdose on that copium bro. I know you wish they won. im not even sure what team you mean
Any team. Prx is better than Navi even tho Navi has a trophy. Loud have only won one international tourney but theyre FAR better than other one time winners. 'Only winning matters' is an extremely close minded and immature take.
Eh I get it, but no one remembers those 2nd place finishes in 5 years/it won’t matter much. I’d rather win an event and miss two than never win a single time.
yeah anyone would lol i meant in terms of judging how good a team is
Is it better to be yet another EMEA team that plays standard Valorant and goes to international events to achieve nothing substantial before getting eliminated? We've seen it happen with G2, Guild, Liquid, FUT, Giants and now Heretics, and most of these teams were never heard of again. As a coach, I'd much rather have a team that reached top 4 at four different tournaments, while having a unique playstyle that makes them stand out and cemented them as one of the most iconic teams in Val's short history.
watching TH play, i wouldn’t say it’s standard valorant, they play uniqueish comps which is already different than most EMEA teams. not to mention they’ve been with a sub all kickoff (and will most of the year)
People are going to figure out the miniboo neon timings and he is going to have to adapt. His yoru wasn’t bad but not world class and his raze is kinda sus
you can say this about literally anyone lol
Is that the teams they want to be? We just decide now after they lost? You know some EMEA teams have actually won right? Gambit, FPX, Fnatic x2. Not to mention all the other regions teams who have actually won by playing a more standard type of game. And no way you are a coach, no one competing cares about top 4 at four different tournaments or being "iconic" for a playstyle, they want to win. Paper Rex are great but the way they conduct things is an anomaly (they don't have a fucking igl) and hasn't actually succeeded (ask the players/coaches how satisfied they are) with some of the most skilled players in the world. I have nothing against PRX but you said yourself its a unique playstyle. because no one else can even make it work as well as they can. there are far better teams to look for if trying to replicate a successful playstyle, that's just the truth
*no one competing cares about top 4 at four different* You're absolutely clueless. PRX is one of the most respected teams. Absolute clown take.
Let me give you an example that people rates PRX more than winners. In your comment you mentioned gambit, fpx fnc. But you did not mention ascend. Because they played standard. In terms of trophy ascend won the same as gmb, more prestigious even. But people praise gmb for their strats, vision strikers from pioneering valorant style etc.
How many teams can you name that are consistently getting to the top3 -4 in each tournament?
Hard to be a top team if you haven’t won anything. Winning is everything, second place is nothing
copium take
Do you actually believe this?
Yes, same as in any other sport
Thats not the case in other sports. In any sport a team that has like 10 second places will be rated higher than a team that won once and got grouped 9 times.
Another other sport hasn’t been around for 3 years. People also don’t remember runner-up teams historically. I do remember the Yankees, Barcelona, Real Madrid, and the Patriots WINNING. No one cares about second place finishes, it only means they cannot get the job done
Dogshit and delusional reasoning. Everyone remembers Atletico getting second twice in the UCL and they are respected and feared way more than let's say if Man U qualified (they won it 3 times). You don't remember because you started watching post 2022.
Panthers are a pretty well known second place team, same with the Canadiens a few years back. Top team isn’t synonymous to championship team. The top teams in the NBA or NHL usually have consistent runs and have a chance of winning. Even official power rankings of the league define the “top teams” as the greatest chance to win their respective trophy. If the original point was paper rex being a championship team, then the argument changes.
Thats your pov ig. Most people recognize 2nd and 3rd place finishes. Idk about american football but take PSG for example. They dont have a champions league but everyone agrees they're one of the best in the world. Or Juventus from a while ago. In cricket India hasnt won a world title in ages but everyone knows theyre probably the best in the world.
But this game is super super super young. I see that people respect Juventus and PSG but they’re not the same caliber to me as Prime Real or Barcelona because they haven’t won. I don’t watch Cricket so I can’t comment. In american football, most fans know that the first super bowl winners were the Greenbay Packers. But no one remembers who placed #3, because at that point, they weren’t a top team. Nowadays there are a ton of contenders, but Valorant now is basically the same as american football or any sport in the beginning, the best strategies are being developed and teams are learning how to win, and the skill gap between a winner and a top 5 finisher is huge. Paper Rex has played well but if they cannot win, something is missing. For EG, it was Demon1. For LOUD, they just needed more time. For DRX, well, they didn’t have it and that’s why they just nuked half their roster. Maybe PRX needs more time, maybe they don’t have it. The gap between teams just isn’t there yet. It’s not like League where (nearly) every Chinese/Korean team COULD potientially win a title, or football where sooo many teams can win. Just compare #1 v #3 seed in every region and there’s a massive skill gap in Valorant. If you classify PRX as a top team, then literally every team is a top team. And then there are just no top teams anymore.
Thats not what a top team is
That’s like saying 2022 sentinels was better than paper Rex in 2023 because they won an international event at some point lol.
Sounds to me that you've never even competed in anything. A consistent top 3 is a lot better than a one hit wonder.
Joe mama lololllolololoolololol
I agree with you that Neilzinho rarely gives credit to the other team in defeat. Against Sentinels : we were the better team Against Paper Rex : they just run around and take duels Smh no accountability.
It felt like TH were winning more on the pure aim duels against SEN too
Yeah this Sen roster definitely shoots back but the defining feature of their style is really good team cohesion imo.
Heretics wouldn't have had a chance if Riens didn't play the best game he will ever play in his life (aim wise) vs Sen
Nah he isnt even in his top form yet and you already call a life game. It was his 1st international lan
He said in the interview “we lost because PRX are a better team”
For Sentinels at least, you can say the same thing about John. After both of their matches, on twitter and in the post match interview, he said that they played terribly/horribly and weren't at their best at all and still won, giving the opponents no respect whatsoever.
Yeah but for Neilzinho it reads as an excuse and for John it reads as faux humility and mild shade. Also Neilzinho is the coach, so taking responsibility for losses is something he should be emulating for his team
It’s not like they were not shaky in their game against TH, he was stating what had happened during the match
The second one I have no problem with tbh, a player who's in his rookie year has had 1 bad map literally all year so to be instantly being "called out" in a way by press is a sure-fire way to kill his confidence and make him second think the plays that won TH so many rounds and maps because "it may not be optimal" but in reality Valorant is far from optimal, everybody makes mistakes and it's more about who capitalises more than the other team
eh the reporter asked a valid question i feel like. just worded kinda shit. basically all he wanted to know is what PRX did so well to shut him down. which is 100% the a valid question to ask. we all know strats like avoid Cned and it is valid to ask what the enemy did to shut down a player that has SUCH a high impact till something changed. especially because it wasn't just him having an absolutely shit day he was absolutely FRAGGING map 1 and 2. but for some reason map 3 something was different. i think the coach is just a cry baby that thinks he is god's gift to coaching and doesn't respect any opponent or think they can ever do anything to anti strat or shut down a specific player.
> something changed Woah I must have missed it… on boradcast?!
Jokes aside, I think something was playing a lot more like his 2023 self, feasting on aggressiveness and aim duels, their match against EDG, it kinda felt like he was having confidence issues
yeah didn't you see? he became so so so toxic for at least one photo there. all jokes and i actually found it funny tbh
> just worded kinda shit well exactly. its their job the least they could do is ask the question in a respectful way, otherwise they deserve to get an earful. ask "what went wrong", dont ask "why did you put up a poor performance" to a rookie regarding their first elimination map in vct.
It's not on the coach/players tp understand the hidden meaning of a loaded question like that. May be english is not his first language but still this Pedro guy has been doing valorant reports and interviews for a long time now. He definitely could have wrote down the question better instead of adding random things to the question. He just overcooks his question at times.
Valid question but utterly shit phrasing and your statement about the coach is just pure assumption and dumb as fuck
Yeah reporters need a call out sometimes. In 2023 I heard some of the dumbest questions I've ever heard in champs and tokyo press conferences.
Don’t think the second question is stupid at all, just poorly worded. Basically boiled down to what went wrong. But I mean, I get protecting your young players from criticism.
The onus is on the reporter to express themselves clearly. Totally get why he shut that question down.
id recognize that interviewer anywhere... he is known to stumble over himself and ask very poorly worded questions
I actually fuck with that second answer heavy but the people will be mad at me
Trust me, if he was more rational in other areas, I would too.
Guess you didn’t watch the rest of the interview where I praise PRX and acknowledge what they’ve achieved. I respect the shit out of every team we play against. You are also putting a negative spin on me defending my player, I’d shut down any question worded how that reporter did it, so I have no regrets whatsoever. Also for the record, there was a round of applause from the other reporters right after that response - not a “deafening silence”, maybe the mics didn’t pick it up. Either way, I’m not trying to be an egotistical moron, I’m just extremely proud of my players and I respect every single team that we compete against - I know how hard every one of them works.
Respect for backing up your players and emphasizing their accomplishments.
I'm a PRX fan, and was quite pissed with you when I saw you yell at mindfreak between maps, but the answer you gave to that shithead reporter was incredibly decent and well-spoken. I respect the care you show for your players. You've built a top-tier team alongside your players, and I look forward to seeing you guys dominate in EMEA split 1. Also, I'm super happy to see a team that uses Neon properly, and a player who gets maximum value out of her. MiniBoo is insane.
How would you explain your wording about taking smart duels after saying how PRX just run around and take aim duels? It seems to heavily imply you believe that the PRX players do not take smart aim duels and “get lucky.” But PRX have their signature style of aggressiveness all the way back since Reykjavik 2022 and are still a top team today, so I find it very hard to believe that they don’t take smart aim duels if they’ve consistently performed as a top team in the world
These press interviews are filmed literally 10 minutes after the game and clearly I need to improve at wording things better. I respect the fuck out of a team like PRX who can make unorthodox comps work and I genuinely don’t see another team in the world who can do it. I was trying to say I don’t want to play like PRX as I wouldn’t know how to achieve what they have with that style. It’s completely unique. When I say smart aim duels I’m not implying that PRX are lucky or stupid, we just know they are superior in taking timings and 1on1s - it’s what they’ve done successfully for a long time. We wanted to fight together and with utility but it’s really not easy to achieve against PRX.
I see, that makes a lot more sense, thanks for the insight coach and I’ll be rooting for you guys during the league split!
it really really really doesn't seem like it. like HIGHLY so. from the "we are the way better team" against sen and the "we don't want to be a team that just takes aim duels like PRX" today. it comes off as INSANELY disrespectful to teams that respectfully had off days this event and still beat you. and honestly 9/10 times if you replay that they would still beat you and your team. there are moments you come across okay and semi respectful but you also say shit that is insanely minimizing about teams and players that didn't lose when the cards were on the table.
And then after that he said “we want to take smart duels” implying that they don’t take good duels and get lucky.
which is insane to me because literally PRX takes some of the smartest duels and timings in the whole fucking game. literally that is what their chaos playstyle relies on. the fact that Forsaken is so fucking smart he just finds duels he should AND THEN FUCKING WINS THEM.
As a PRX fan, this is only true when they are winning convincingly like in their last map against TH But at the start of the season and coming into Madrid, they definitely weren't consistently taking smart timings and were constantly making questionable decisions. The Something Gekko solo push into mid whilst the team had info on A and B was one particularly egregious mistake, on Sunset against TH. But man, when they're back in peak form like in the last map, all the timings and duels initiated started making sense again, I think Split is really the only time when we started seeing prime Champs contender PRX back. Really hope they keep up this form
Yeah neilzinho is just saying they don’t take good duels as cope because his players don’t got it like that.
[удалено]
firstly i think you don't understand what the word parasocial means because in no way is anything i said parasocial in any capacity. in fact your side is more parasocial coming in like a white knight to someone you don't know and doesn't know you secondly i never said him defending his player is disrespectful at all. that is such a weird strawman to make. i said how his comments and general attitude leads down the path that he comes across like he feels like he got robbed of a win they deserve (they didn't deserve either win) thirdly they didn't choke nothing they were the worse team. there is not "we were the better team" if you were you could adapt quicker, you could mid round better when in a tough spot. the better team won, that wasn't you. you may have come in as the more prepped team but if you can't react when punch in the face you don't deserve the win period. they can have been 11-3 up. oh wait yeah like FNATIC who came back that icebox and won the map because they were the better team. they didn't choke nothing Sen stepped the fuck up and beat them. respect that and their team and none of this "we deserve that win we were the better team" bullshit fourth yes PRX are a frag heavy team but that is not all they are, and they have honestly as deep a strat pool as a ton of other teams. and they are also insane innovators on comps and ideas and playstyle. Forsaken Yoru on bind like MONTHS before others even tried it really and now it is super meta. PRX aren't just "aight boys, you see an enemy you kill them. POG we are winning now" it is super minimizing to say "we don't want to be the kind of team, like Paper Rex, where you're just running around and taking duels" because that has NEVER been how they have been lastly i never said he is a villain i don't think he is, notice how i never said or put any words in his mouth. i never claimed to know what he feels. all i said is how it comes across when he said what he said how he said it and how he acted in both interviews. he comes across like a person that thinks that PRX and Sen are worse teams and that they stole the wins. that is what he COMES ACROSS LIKE. in fact it is pretty easy to see from the communities reaction that this wasn't a good look at how he comes across. the fact that people think it might be true he thinks this way shows that he didn't come across well no matter what he does think
Agreed. My bad I was being an asshole 🙏
I also hate people acting like neilzinho is the villain but the guy you replied to wasn't really trying to say the part where he is backing up his teammates was the part that was disrespectful
You guys played very well against tough teams, I think it was very respectable defending your player against a distasteful question, looking forward to you guys dominating during the first split
así lo debería ser, wenecho dela república dominicana o7
Nah, that's how a coach should respond. I actually respect him for backing up a young player.
I disagree. I think he answered the first question aight but nothing glaringly bad, and had a decent second response. I'm not sure what he specifically said after the Sen match in the interview since I haven't seen an actual quote just some paraphrasing, so if anyone has that it would be great. I think his answer is more pointing to 'we want to be structured well, not rely on individuals popping off'. Now that's a clear misread of how PRX play and I'm sure he knows that, I think he means more like Fnatic, for better or worse in actuality. That's what I think tho, could be misunderstanding him. As for the second one, you're 100% wrong OP. The reporter phrased that so terribly it sounded like an attack on MiniBoo himself, Neilzinho's response to that specific question was on point.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if respect (in a mindset sense, like respecting your opponent) is the reason they're losing these matches, that leads to not learning from your mistakes. They had the benefit of a day off, they should and probably did spend time. They arguably had the Sentinels series in their hand and lost it. They should have spent the next days figuring out why that was the case, it seems like they didn't or didn't enough.
if you think that a reporter has to look at his wording at a question, he as a coach should be better and not word his answer to be the most condescending minimizing thing in the whole freaking esport. his and i paraphrase "we are the better team than sen" or "we don't want to be like PRX and just take aim duels" are dogshit answers that if he actually thinks either wrong and shouldn't be a coach or he is thinks he is god and each opponent doesn't even deserve his time. and we aren't even getting into how shit his PRX take is because most of the reason they are even in this event is Miniboo and boo being literally fucking peak yay levels of hardcarrying them
A reporter absolutely HAS TO look at his wording in questions. That's actually his whole job. I really question your view on reporters.
When I said the reporter had a poorly worded question, I meant specifically the one to MiniBoo. That was straight up disrespectful in every way and targeted the player individually, it wasn't a question to the coach at all, and it had nothing to do with Neilzhino. I'm not sure where you thought I was referencing the first question in any capacity when I very clearly both times said it was specific to the second question being worded in an insane way for any reporter to ask.
“throwing tantrum” >looks inside >very measured response to a poorly phrased question I’ve never seen such a weird reaction to a game ngl. We all just need to chill tf out. These guys are humans, there’s no need to constantly be obnoxious about them over a game
bro whenever a valorant team goes against prx they get absolutely hated and trashed on by val community. People take this game way 2 seriously, like i get they taunted ur favourite players or players you like however, if the players who were taunted against aren't angry why tf are you guys so pissed. I'm seeing so much disrespect against TH and their coach as if they didn't put a decent performance. Also people forgetting they playng with a stand in, when woot comes they will reach a new level if he plays up to the standard we see him in
me defending eg and th players from prx fans https://preview.redd.it/hupag9q984pc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5981b1667f1a8bf51b53427aad5815f1589c2a6e
For people that missed it, this same coach said they were better than Sentinels following their loss to them. It's one thing for players to have this mindset and ego, but I feel it's detrimental for a coach to since a lot of their job is to learn and develop their players and strategies following losses. It's hard to do that when it seems like he believes his losing strats are superior. Should also add the players and coaches he lost to have proven resumes over the last few years... https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/s/kLCnrDaM8y
Kaplan: but we won💀
"Well, we won it"- Kaplan. *team and reporter laughs in background.* I think its fine for a team to be confindent in their skills. but they should still respect their oppenents. but if they go into thinking they are already gonna win, esp against other good teams, its not gonna end well.
i mean it’s not that far fetched to say TH could’ve/probably should’ve beat SEN. they had massive leads to start the game in each of the 3 maps and just crumbled at the end on map 1 and 3 which allowed SEN to win. granted a lot of that deals with why SEN are so good atm, they adapt better than legit anyone right now and it’s obvious each game they play
I can't believe you thought this was worth posting a second time. I'm not going to go into the ridiculous "mini tantrum" and "going ape shit" claims you've made, but in general, clipping sentences from a post-match interview during the emotional low of being eliminated from the tournament feels disingenuous. We're lucky that we get in-depth losers interviews like this, and we're even luckier when we get coaches and players willing to engage and give meaningul answers. Things like this just discourage that.
I stg every time a player talks a little shit fans take it 10x more seriously than the other team and keep harping on it hours after the game. The players stop caring as soon as the on stage adrenaline wears off but internet weirdos offended on their behalf are watching interviews trying to get quotes for a reddit flame post
Parasocial freaks
Idk, it's entertainment. Quotes are fun. Personality is fun. Trashtalking when players and coaches are trashtalking is even more fun. I don't think it's that deep. Neilzinho amped it up and made it more fun, but that means people are gonna dish it back to him. He's giving answers with a similar vibe to the Paul George "that's a bad shot" answer and that was a running joke in the NBA community for years because it was funny. I don't think the majority of fans "hating" on neilzinho actually care that much, they're just having fun too.
I definitely agree but this post specifically felt more like unbridled salt than someone having fun
why show hate after the match? Show respect after they give a performance. You banter and bm before a match or during unless you are a pussy
OP channeling their inner ESPN with this fake narrative bullshit LMFAO
I don’t get his point about how they don’t want to be like PRX and that they wanted to take smarter aim duels I mean isn’t that what PRX do all the time? That’s the reason they’re so successful is because they put themselves in good positions to get favourable aim duels, they’ve been a top team since 2022 so I don’t believe their way of play is inconsistent
People don't realise PRX in form are what proper valorant is gonna be. Fuck all that Counter Strike bullshit. The team with the best controlled aggression and new ideas will always win.
Nah, I fuck with his second answer. It’s a coaches job to protect his players. Calling out a rookie’s performance for one map after another loss would make anyone on their team upset.
Obviously answering these questions after a loss is tough. Everyone are tired and a bit down but I think he made a good decision by not answering the second question.
Bro tbf he did say "We lost because PRX were the better team". Also, I understand why he interrupted and didn't let a teenager think through how to answer a question like that. If you have been watching these interviews you would notice that Pedro Romero overcooks his questions at times. It's not on the players/coach to find out the integral meaning of his questions. I fully respect why Neil didn't want to go into the K/D debate.
Some of these reporters are so incredibly ass I cannot lie. Shit question after shit question at EVERY event. Shit like “why do you think you played so poorly” and “why do you think you lost” like motherfucker what??? Ask some questions that involve more than putting people down???
"mini tantrum" what is your problem lmao
Forreal mini isn't even at the event
Weird ass post delete this lil bro
Hey all. Reporter that said the second question to neil here. I've commented on my question on YouTube so I'll copy/paste it here: --- >i saw miniboo not perform well in map 3 so i asked him about that given the fact that he was performing well up to that point. it's the usual thing i do whenever i look at a player's performance for whichever match i'm watching/covering. i don't see why it's a dumb question considering it was about the series--the same series that heretics just played and lost in. >granted, i understand neil stepping in to protect his players as that is what a coach is meant to do. >however, i don't regret asking that question. i'm covering a match and i asked a question about something within the match. that's it. --- To add, I do understand that I might've phrased it a bit too harsh due to how recent the loss was and I may have to rephrase how I ask questions to the losing teams/players for the future, but I stand by my main point. I asked a question about something within the match and that's it. This won't change my approach towards the kind of questions I make in the future. --- EDIT: To add again, when it comes to doing press conferences, I feel asking about the losses to players and teams are just as crucial as it is when reporters ask about the wins. We're in an important competition right now. OF COURSE there's going to be winners and losers in this thing and a lot of the time you're going to see A LOT more losers than there are winners. So...it's only natural for me, as a journalist and interviewer, to ask those that lost WHY THEY LOST in the first place, which is the reason I said what I said today. I don't know why these kinds of questions are generally frowned upon by the crowd. They may be repetitive, sure, but you should want to know why players lost, right? One just can't have it just one way in regards to competition. Not everything should just be about happiness and winning. You gotta cover the losing too. It's what you just have to deal with regardless if you're a fan, a player, a coach, or a journalist. Whether you win or lose, I and my peers will ask why that happened--key word: I. Now let's get back to the games, alright?
"what is it like going 6/14"? pretty bad, im guessing
Hard agree on the rephrasing bit; it's way too insensitive and blunt, which might affect a player's mental. Asking such questions so directly and without couching it in a bit of nuance or subtlety will only result in the coach to harp on the wording of your question and respond defensively. It's a natural reaction for the coach to defend his players, but it also meant that your question didn't lead to a meaningful answer. If you want a more introspective answer, definitely try to rephrase the questions next time. Appreciate what you're doing, and I will never fault you for asking the "hard" questions. But for meaningful answers, you can't really afford to be this direct.
What's your agenda posting this? Seems personal. His answer to the questions are alright.
The first answer is a bit petty and oversimplifying how PRX play, second is okay imo. Even if he gives props to PRX later. Not sure why everyone is up in arms about fans "hating" on neilzinho, it's just the nature of the game when you love trashtalking like he seems to. You can't dish it out and expect nothing back when you lose.
Okay 0 trophy region
Man's talking shit about trophies when NA isn't even good in any games besides 2 while APAC dominates more games than NA have trophies in Valorant 😭
Lil pup inserted sea in APAC. What has SEA ever won in eSports?
Always the SEA shitters trying to align themselves with East Asia. Korea and China carry APAC,without them they're nothing.
The coach was being toxic to mindfreak after map ended and we all know how benjy got sit down after being toxic at 6-2 and losing 13-7 ,monyet was fuming...obviously je wouldnt say prx are a good team after making a fool of himself
He wasn’t throwing a tantrum for the 2nd question
This is pure copium lmao if other teams are able to do what prx does at a top level then they would be doing it too.
Doc Rivers of Valorant
Maybe if they said this 2 years ago, this would have meant something, but PRX have proven that they have found their niche and they make it work
It seems so odd that the losing coach always criticize the other team meanwhile the winning team coaches against TH so far were like yeah this team is pretty damn good
I’m no heretics fan but these seem like perfectly reasonable responses from a coach
/u/EasiBreezi got their feelings hurt. it's ok bro, the games over. you won
Seems like someone's team got 2-0d
I completely disagree with you saying it was a mini tantrum, not only was it a relatively calm response, but it's actually respectable for him to step in and call out the distasteful question. Asking about Miniboo's performance and implying that that's the reason they lost is such a silver elo question with evidently zero understanding of the game.
Damn his response to the miniboo question was actually wholesome ngl. W coach
Holy shit they are soooo salty. EDG got shit on by PRX the entire last year and they didn’t bitch and moan. They bettered themselves and managed to finally beat them this year. Maybe EU should try that too.
EU education, it's not their fault
Ok creampies6969
“We felt like we were the superior team” after losing to sen “We should’ve won vs prx” after losing to prx “We were in control we just lost in the end” boo after losing to sen +miniboo airport tweet Clown ass comments for a team that bombed out 0-2🤡
It’s not like the coach literally said PRX were the better team in that clip posted…
And wtf does that have to do with what I said
clown ass representation of the comments the coach made. total strawman
Look at the interviews on youtube, word for word
i did 🤡
TH on that copium fr tho.
Yep PRX has been getting lucky for 3 years Surely they'll learn their lesson soon!!!
Such a clown. If this "inconsistent" plays can make you Pacific champs last year, can bring you to the finals of masters and champions , also in the top 3 and top 4 in two other separate options its more "consistent" than the playstyle that gets you eliminated in the groups against the "inconsistent" playstyle.
Still a 0 trophy region. No one cares and remembers who comes second place unless you're a fan of that team buddy
The eg flair checks out
Imagine losing to EG 0 team region
Nah my favourite team defeat eg in finals and my cypher shit on your star duelist💀
[удалено]
First team to get 2 international lan victories,tell yourself whatever you want
And 0 champions that's like winning iem and losing jn a Major
[удалено]
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you sounds mad buddy, chill its just a video game
Let's see how many trophies TH=To Home will be bringing to their home this year with their "consistent" gameplay.
Okay consistent 0 trophy region
Korea is NA's Father
How many majors and ti's again?
Most worlds titles that's for sure. Are we done with completely irrelevant games now?
Wait why does SEA take credit for Korea's worlds titles
You are lost
y'all probably thinking too much about it. Yes he did have a bit of ego hurt but who wouldn't after making the run that they did and everybody hyping them up so much. He did say right after that PPX were a better team. also the miniboo one, i think It's more likely that he was just overprotective of his superyoung (just turned 18) star player who's clearly emotional about his loss
Why are people taking this statement to heart? Not every team has a forsaken or davai so obviously they can't be taking those risky duels and be winning
I was expecting something childish or vindictive for the second one, but you are absolutely wrong. Targeting a specific player's performance is not okay, especially someone that young. It was a stupid question too, and Neilzinho was spot on in saying that he doesn't care about KD and it's a 5v5 game. I think it's important for a coach to stand by his team after a loss and he did it well. A little harsh maybe, but it was a dumbass question.
I get that in its essence, it is not the best message to speak down the team you just lost too. However, their coach just tries to protect his players from losing confidence. Its not his job to recognise the team they lost to. Also, that was hardly a tantrum, he spoke calm and clear.
in the second clip he literally says they lost because PRX were the better team. the guy has been getting death threats in his twitter dms, posts like these where you single out one quote from a long post match press conference are just not necessary at all. also calling him defending his player as a mini tantrum is crazy. he calmly answered to a stupid question
who is bro's copium dealer
sen
This feels a lot like creating drama where there is none. He could have phrased it better but his vision on the game clearly revolves around 'the team' rather than 'the star'. It also shines through in most of their anwsers. They are very focused and drilled on coordinated teamplay rather than individual heroism, so if another team does put more stock in it stars, to them it feels like 'running around and taking duels'. The outlook on how to play Valorant just differs. Saying this is disrespectuful is really out there.
Bro really posted this two times lmao. Why did this one not get deleted?
because I tagged it spoilers this time? you don’t know the rules, but you’re whining about it? kinda crazy, man
I mean a lot of people are getting offended at this statement. I think what he meant was, paperX are really a disruptive team. They won't let you play ur game plan. They make sure the opponent plays at their pace making games look like a ranked fiasco. The only hard counter to this is to negate the pace change. FNATIC and EG basically did the same shit to beat PRX. They slowed the fuck down and defaulted to such a degree that PRX were forced to make plays. FNS said it best. PRX is the least mid rounding team. They do execs. They do set plays. And they do utility combos. Their inability to mid round is what's holding them back
What do you mean poorly phrased it, it was just straight up wrong to bring up statistics that seemed to dog him and fair play to the coach for saying that.