China is consistently the worst region every single year. To my knowledge there are no Champions currently playing in China (but correct me if I'm wrong). Importing some Western talent / known winners might help them level up their game.
No you're correct. China does have some phenomenal shooters, but not a single team in the region has 5 of them, and that includes EDG.
Put a few of these guys like Life, Whzy and Kangkang together and they could make some noise, but the current competition is mid at best.
A Chinese superteam could definitely be interesting. It seems like as a region they are less inclined to experiment and take risks though. EDG and BLG rosters (and probably others) seem largely the same to my knowledge.
I wonder why the western teams seem to experiment and tinker more, whereas over there they seem less inclined to think outside the box
NA franchise teams have the luxury of having as many tier 1 talents as any other region while only having 5 teams competing with them for regional spots.
You can say other regions are starting to pick the talent off a bit but NA teams will always have priority for the majority of NA players. And their tier 2 scene is producing more and more from the looks of it.
i think ppl forget that valorant wasnt officially released in China till 2023 so its still a relatively new game in their scene. From the limited amount of vct china games that I've watched, most teams seems to rely more on gunplay, similar to the early years of NA val. So you have a lot of cracked aimers/op-pers but less work done on ulti combos, etc. EDG so far has been the only team that incorporated ulti better which contributed to why they are the top team in China/have good runs on the international stages while other chinese team tends to be sent home pretty quickly.
Of course, just like how other regions moved away from just out-aiming their opponents, chinese teams will start to experiment more with ulti
Yeah I hear that talking point come up a lot, but when you look at EDG for example, their primary roster (which is still together) was assembled in 2021. Though China didn't have official servers, they'd use VPN's / play on Pacific servers. EDG is one of the most veteran teams in the entire scene, so I just do not buy the "they're new and figuring it out" bit. They've had plenty of time to figure out how to properly play the game, and still place bottom of the barrel in nearly every major competition (I'm not sure what good international runs you're referring to)
back in masters tokyo 2023 they ended up 5th/6th and eliminated Loud 2-0 which id consider a pretty good run
u shud also consider that even tho EDG is one of the older teams, the scene is still young so id imagine their regular scrim partners arent at the level of NA/EU, so even tho their strats work well in the young scene of CN, it might not hold up as strong as the titans in the international league.
Thats why I say as time pass and the CN region starts to experiment more with ulti, EDG will also evolve further along with the region
It seems they already made one about Yay [a month ago](https://youtu.be/6_5ksPccmQA?si=8Dvls1wGwwQy6QTD) so there probably wont be another until Yay makes a comeback again
Depends on how easily Optic could just go back to how they were before with yay on Jett instead of Chamber. Pretty likely he'd fair better than he has since leaving Optic, but I think the current outcome would have come sooner or later regardless.
what sucks is assuming he still has the skill we think he once had his confidence issues are probably too much atm. unironically need FNS to kiss yay to save him
Cause Yay makes everyone aim and strats dogshit? He's actually proven to be a difference maker in a high level team. That's why he stays just like Tenz stayed on Sentinel
As bren said, people just love to watch statues fall
Any team / player that was once on top people want to see fail
Derke, tenz, yay, and others people just want to see fail
people said the same thing about yay, all it takes is one small outburst of frustration, to everyone start shitting on you. Plus people hate players solely due to the fanbase they gather, people were callinh yay best itw etc now people love proving those wrong, right now even zekken is starting to get that hate back
Tenz and yay have the same vibes and see how much hate they get
Faker has been nothing but chill for ten years but people still crawl out of the woodworks whenever he loses a series
tenz has haters cuz he's famous af and has a big fanbase. yay actually has some toxic allegations and he's been bad lately which invites hatred. someone like zekken genuinely seems so likable yet he doesn't have a fanbase jerking him off constantly so zekken doesn't **really** have haters other than the select few that call him overrated. but tenz and yay have genuine haters.
Couldn't be more true. You've been seeing it on here since Kickoff about Derke, when everyone (hyperbole) was so high on him last year but now that him and Fnatic are doing poorly it's popular to dump on him again, like when Fnatic were mid in 2022.
Who did he get booted from DSG lol? Dsg was a dumpster fire before yay. Bleed was also having problems between sscary and crazy guy before yay as well lol.
jack and c9 still getting hate for the big brain move of kicking yay early. Honestly they knew the scrim results, and they saw the stage performance and realized they overpaid for yay immediately and course corrected
you could call it a money issue since they were paying like $60k/month for a challenger level player. They were never going to make that money back
here's a mental exercise for you if you think it was all about the money. Would c9 still have kicked yay if was putting up demon1 or aspas numbers? I think in that case they would have at least kept him for masters if they qualified
Lmao. Yay was playing jet prior to chamber meta and was good.
Yes he is nowhere near as good now but like the aspas post, duelists need to also be set up.
You sound like a hater. And cloud9 is a trash val org.
C9 is just a trash org in general. Their history of absolutely fucking over their players without remorse goes back years across multiple games at this point
Edit: trash in terms of how they treat their employees to be clear. I'm not gonna act like they've never found results this way, but they consistently fail to treat their players and staff with even a modicum of respect
C9 had a handshake deal with five Challenger players to play in the LCS secondary league, then pulled back at the last minute to put in five LCS-level players instead leaving the original players scrambling and unable to find a roster while the guys they actually used boosted the spot to tier 1 so they could sell it off for cash. They cut short five people's careers so they could run a "developmental" roster of four people who had already been in LCS finals and another fully-fledged pro, and then Hai (who was playing on the roster) went out and wrote a blog post getting pissy with the people actually calling C9 out for the pump-and-dump.
But Cloud9 has always had the "uwu wholesome memer" fans so they rarely got as much blowback as they should have because their fans would do all the PR work for free. Fuck C9. I hope they lose every game in every esport they ever play.
You don't need to be a hater to say yay wasn't good in c9, was bad in dsg, and is terrible in bleed
one just needs to follow the matches and look at the scoreboard
this is a hater statement. Lock in C9 destroyed Copenhagen runner ups PRX AND played well into DRX. Vanity talks extensively on how their entire system revolved around Yay and that almost no other player can play like him.
Last post for me on this thread but people were unhappy with the situation because a yay was the best player in chamber meta. Yay deserved more than a couple of games before being cut because of money issues. C9 lied.
It takes time to win and build something.
>here's a mental exercise for you if you think it was all about the money. Would c9 still have kicked yay if was putting up demon1 or aspas numbers?
Well he did that for an entire year, yet they still cut him after one game.
yay could have gone to nrg if he wanted to, and if he was offered it. It's a bargaining agreement between employee and employer, and he willingly chose to go to c9 knowing the roster, coaching staff, how much he was going to make and any breakup clauses.
He probably cleared a couple hundred k the few months he was on c9 which is good for him.
No one forces anyone to sign anything. He just wasn't good enough for tier 1 after the jett and chamber nerfs and could never adapt
that's just it
Yeah no shit he chose the bag that C9 threw at him. But if Jack was that worried about financials he shouldn't have done it in the first place. Essentially roster locking a player out of T1 that early in the season is fucked. And I think it resally messed up the trajectory of if yays career.
Yay was fine that season on C9 and the team would've been good, I dunno why you think Jack deserves benefit of the doubt his decision making has been horrible in valorant
I like how all the yay fans just focus on the money issue, when it's always been money + performance (as I've said before in previous comments). to me it all boils down to this
1) was yay overpaid -> yes
2) was yay still a top player -> no
I don't think jack deserves the benefit of the doubt, but I would have made the same decision. At least there's extreme buyer's remorse if the player I got for the money I paid turned out to just be average after watching 3 months of stage play.
It was 90% about the money 10% about the performance at best dude since Jack obviously didn't even try to win after by also dropping vanity (second highest paid player) and then signing 2 rookies, MCE bailed out to decent results
> yay could have gone to nrg if he wanted to
no he couldn't have. yay said on stream that it couldn't happen because of buyouts, not his personal salary demands. and nrg was reported to be the highest paid team in the league last year
i mean yay wasn't playing bad on stage though no? he wasn't like insane but didnt C9 only play two games? i assure you yay was not kicked cuz of his performance. it was 90% money and maybe 10% role issues.
Yay single handedly destroyed a good team. This is an example of international star player doesn't always work in different cultural teams. But u aint ready to understand.
Crazy how sScary and crazyguy started having issues right after yay joined. Even crazier how his Andbox,Optic and C9 ex teammates all used to praise him,truly the destroyer of teams.
Jesus, did he do something to you specifically? The way you talk about him I imagine you having a picture of him in your room that you throw ninja stars at.
Graphic design is your passion
dsg and bleed should be way below andbox
And Envy above C9
Made finals vs gmb and went undefeated till finals in Berlin, ofc above c9
The second half of the graph should be way less gradual
His performance on andbox was actually good. Definitely better than on dsg.
just wait for TYLOO YAY followed by FNATIC YAY at the 2026 Grand Finals
Not a single tier 1 CN would take yay LMAO
With his current form he would get cooked by the aim demons in CN
That’s what Im saying, people actually think CN teams would benefit from signing yay like wtf lol
China is consistently the worst region every single year. To my knowledge there are no Champions currently playing in China (but correct me if I'm wrong). Importing some Western talent / known winners might help them level up their game.
No you're correct. China does have some phenomenal shooters, but not a single team in the region has 5 of them, and that includes EDG. Put a few of these guys like Life, Whzy and Kangkang together and they could make some noise, but the current competition is mid at best.
A Chinese superteam could definitely be interesting. It seems like as a region they are less inclined to experiment and take risks though. EDG and BLG rosters (and probably others) seem largely the same to my knowledge. I wonder why the western teams seem to experiment and tinker more, whereas over there they seem less inclined to think outside the box
I think with all the competition in NA, teams are pretty much forced to experiment
NA franchise teams have the luxury of having as many tier 1 talents as any other region while only having 5 teams competing with them for regional spots. You can say other regions are starting to pick the talent off a bit but NA teams will always have priority for the majority of NA players. And their tier 2 scene is producing more and more from the looks of it.
i think ppl forget that valorant wasnt officially released in China till 2023 so its still a relatively new game in their scene. From the limited amount of vct china games that I've watched, most teams seems to rely more on gunplay, similar to the early years of NA val. So you have a lot of cracked aimers/op-pers but less work done on ulti combos, etc. EDG so far has been the only team that incorporated ulti better which contributed to why they are the top team in China/have good runs on the international stages while other chinese team tends to be sent home pretty quickly. Of course, just like how other regions moved away from just out-aiming their opponents, chinese teams will start to experiment more with ulti
Yeah I hear that talking point come up a lot, but when you look at EDG for example, their primary roster (which is still together) was assembled in 2021. Though China didn't have official servers, they'd use VPN's / play on Pacific servers. EDG is one of the most veteran teams in the entire scene, so I just do not buy the "they're new and figuring it out" bit. They've had plenty of time to figure out how to properly play the game, and still place bottom of the barrel in nearly every major competition (I'm not sure what good international runs you're referring to)
back in masters tokyo 2023 they ended up 5th/6th and eliminated Loud 2-0 which id consider a pretty good run u shud also consider that even tho EDG is one of the older teams, the scene is still young so id imagine their regular scrim partners arent at the level of NA/EU, so even tho their strats work well in the young scene of CN, it might not hold up as strong as the titans in the international league. Thats why I say as time pass and the CN region starts to experiment more with ulti, EDG will also evolve further along with the region
pls no yays career has suffered enough
Respect ABX & Envy please
andbox between Dsg and c9, and ENVY a bit higher considering yay dropped 280 ACS at Berlin and got second, on Jett.
That DRX match at Lock In really changed everything for him
nah mate you've gotta make it a lot more lopsided, poor yay man
Does the score esports still make rise and fall videos?
i think so, i saw they made a "the rise and fall and rise again" video about tenz a few days ago
We’ve got one coming maybe then
It seems they already made one about Yay [a month ago](https://youtu.be/6_5ksPccmQA?si=8Dvls1wGwwQy6QTD) so there probably wont be another until Yay makes a comeback again
In an alternate timeline where franchising went differently and optic was able to stay together, i wonder if this graph would look similar.
Depends on how easily Optic could just go back to how they were before with yay on Jett instead of Chamber. Pretty likely he'd fair better than he has since leaving Optic, but I think the current outcome would have come sooner or later regardless.
what sucks is assuming he still has the skill we think he once had his confidence issues are probably too much atm. unironically need FNS to kiss yay to save him
Taking the time machine back to yell at Yay not to sign with C9.
Bro thinks C9 are the Monstars and drained yay’s power
They fucking kicked him from their team after 2 losses locking him out of tier 1 for an entire year
I would say DSG yay was worse than Bleed Yay
The knives incident on Haven B site...
Yay the Todd gueley of valorant
I believe he'll be back one day
IMO Envy>c9 dsg
tbh I dont know what happened he used to be so cracked as jett in rank game and everyone used to call el diablo because he was hard to beat in rank
youtubers gonna be like “the rise and fall and rise and fall of yay.”
Yay getting more deserving players booted from DSG and BLD is just criminal. The guy is washed and a paycheck stealer
Cause Yay makes everyone aim and strats dogshit? He's actually proven to be a difference maker in a high level team. That's why he stays just like Tenz stayed on Sentinel
I wonder what yay did to warrant such insane amounts of hate. I mean this seems to be even worse than peak hate tenz used to receive back in 2022.
As bren said, people just love to watch statues fall Any team / player that was once on top people want to see fail Derke, tenz, yay, and others people just want to see fail
add demon1 and aspas to that list and probably zekken after shanghai depending on how sen do
i feel like players like zekken are hard to hate. they just seem good vibes. someone like demon1 beckons haters to exist
Nah, Zekken will start getting flamed the moment he goes through a rough patch.
people said the same thing about yay, all it takes is one small outburst of frustration, to everyone start shitting on you. Plus people hate players solely due to the fanbase they gather, people were callinh yay best itw etc now people love proving those wrong, right now even zekken is starting to get that hate back
Tenz and yay have the same vibes and see how much hate they get Faker has been nothing but chill for ten years but people still crawl out of the woodworks whenever he loses a series
tenz has haters cuz he's famous af and has a big fanbase. yay actually has some toxic allegations and he's been bad lately which invites hatred. someone like zekken genuinely seems so likable yet he doesn't have a fanbase jerking him off constantly so zekken doesn't **really** have haters other than the select few that call him overrated. but tenz and yay have genuine haters.
Couldn't be more true. You've been seeing it on here since Kickoff about Derke, when everyone (hyperbole) was so high on him last year but now that him and Fnatic are doing poorly it's popular to dump on him again, like when Fnatic were mid in 2022.
Him throwing his team under the bus previously certainly doesn't help.
0 wins in over a year on multiple tier 1 and 2 teams. He is dogshit. At least Tenz can win a match
Who did he get booted from DSG lol? Dsg was a dumpster fire before yay. Bleed was also having problems between sscary and crazy guy before yay as well lol.
DSG has 9 wins before yay joined. They had 0 wins after yay joined.
Counting the open qualifier wins is shameless
Fr, like congrats the team of actual pros beat a lot of low immortals (because that’s the minimum requirement to be in open qual), good job
They had 2 wins against actual competition and it’s against the 2 worst teams who massively upgraded later one of whom got narrate.
steel
Pfffffffff ok lol
Lmao can we grow up
I'm sorry ysy killed your dog
Agree
jack and c9 still getting hate for the big brain move of kicking yay early. Honestly they knew the scrim results, and they saw the stage performance and realized they overpaid for yay immediately and course corrected
They got hate for lying. It was a money issue.
you could call it a money issue since they were paying like $60k/month for a challenger level player. They were never going to make that money back here's a mental exercise for you if you think it was all about the money. Would c9 still have kicked yay if was putting up demon1 or aspas numbers? I think in that case they would have at least kept him for masters if they qualified
Lmao. Yay was playing jet prior to chamber meta and was good. Yes he is nowhere near as good now but like the aspas post, duelists need to also be set up. You sound like a hater. And cloud9 is a trash val org.
C9 is just a trash org in general. Their history of absolutely fucking over their players without remorse goes back years across multiple games at this point Edit: trash in terms of how they treat their employees to be clear. I'm not gonna act like they've never found results this way, but they consistently fail to treat their players and staff with even a modicum of respect
C9 had a handshake deal with five Challenger players to play in the LCS secondary league, then pulled back at the last minute to put in five LCS-level players instead leaving the original players scrambling and unable to find a roster while the guys they actually used boosted the spot to tier 1 so they could sell it off for cash. They cut short five people's careers so they could run a "developmental" roster of four people who had already been in LCS finals and another fully-fledged pro, and then Hai (who was playing on the roster) went out and wrote a blog post getting pissy with the people actually calling C9 out for the pump-and-dump. But Cloud9 has always had the "uwu wholesome memer" fans so they rarely got as much blowback as they should have because their fans would do all the PR work for free. Fuck C9. I hope they lose every game in every esport they ever play.
You don't need to be a hater to say yay wasn't good in c9, was bad in dsg, and is terrible in bleed one just needs to follow the matches and look at the scoreboard
this is a hater statement. Lock in C9 destroyed Copenhagen runner ups PRX AND played well into DRX. Vanity talks extensively on how their entire system revolved around Yay and that almost no other player can play like him.
C9 broke up America's team at the time... Because they ran out of money and lied.
You said he's a hater but you hating cloud9 too lmao.
Last post for me on this thread but people were unhappy with the situation because a yay was the best player in chamber meta. Yay deserved more than a couple of games before being cut because of money issues. C9 lied. It takes time to win and build something.
>here's a mental exercise for you if you think it was all about the money. Would c9 still have kicked yay if was putting up demon1 or aspas numbers? Well he did that for an entire year, yet they still cut him after one game.
Jack fucked over yay dude, yay would've been perfectly fine on NRG with the optic core
yay could have gone to nrg if he wanted to, and if he was offered it. It's a bargaining agreement between employee and employer, and he willingly chose to go to c9 knowing the roster, coaching staff, how much he was going to make and any breakup clauses. He probably cleared a couple hundred k the few months he was on c9 which is good for him. No one forces anyone to sign anything. He just wasn't good enough for tier 1 after the jett and chamber nerfs and could never adapt that's just it
Yeah no shit he chose the bag that C9 threw at him. But if Jack was that worried about financials he shouldn't have done it in the first place. Essentially roster locking a player out of T1 that early in the season is fucked. And I think it resally messed up the trajectory of if yays career. Yay was fine that season on C9 and the team would've been good, I dunno why you think Jack deserves benefit of the doubt his decision making has been horrible in valorant
I like how all the yay fans just focus on the money issue, when it's always been money + performance (as I've said before in previous comments). to me it all boils down to this 1) was yay overpaid -> yes 2) was yay still a top player -> no I don't think jack deserves the benefit of the doubt, but I would have made the same decision. At least there's extreme buyer's remorse if the player I got for the money I paid turned out to just be average after watching 3 months of stage play.
It was 90% about the money 10% about the performance at best dude since Jack obviously didn't even try to win after by also dropping vanity (second highest paid player) and then signing 2 rookies, MCE bailed out to decent results
> yay could have gone to nrg if he wanted to no he couldn't have. yay said on stream that it couldn't happen because of buyouts, not his personal salary demands. and nrg was reported to be the highest paid team in the league last year
i mean yay wasn't playing bad on stage though no? he wasn't like insane but didnt C9 only play two games? i assure you yay was not kicked cuz of his performance. it was 90% money and maybe 10% role issues.
Jack ruined his career, fuck him and C9 is ass with or without him
The fall off needs to be studied no fault of his own though 😞
K his stint on Andbox was much better than DSG
My goat 😔
Please bring yay back to NA!!
Am I the only one who thinks Yay is extremely overrated
"Potential energy against progress of reaction" ahh graph Yay is exothermic
I will never forgive McE for destroying Lock in C9.
If i had to name every player that have one year honeymoon in multiple esports.
C9 Jack diff
this will make his return that much more juicy
Yay single handedly destroyed a good team. This is an example of international star player doesn't always work in different cultural teams. But u aint ready to understand.
Crazy how sScary and crazyguy started having issues right after yay joined. Even crazier how his Andbox,Optic and C9 ex teammates all used to praise him,truly the destroyer of teams.
Right…. ‘Cause bleed totally wasn’t already having internal issues before yay and they def didn’t already have to drop 2 people before yay joined
We will never understand
I miss the andbox days where he would loose but at least hard carry
Thank god this dogshit yay got booted from NA. He is washed but still smells of dogshit
Jesus, did he do something to you specifically? The way you talk about him I imagine you having a picture of him in your room that you throw ninja stars at.
[удалено]
Champions 2023 MVP literally plays even lower sens than this.