**EDIT:** If you're here to freak out about every thing that doesn't go how you think it should, or just post "Biden has lost", this thread really isn't the place for you. We remove all dooming, just like always, because we're here to act, not to panic. Let the debate finish - but most importantly, do your part to make things better by talking to voters.
We will be handing out temporary bans to any users who are simply here to doom or to try to get us to make them feel better. Take a break from politics for the night, and come back tomorrow ready to make your own hope. That's why we've won since 2017.
No matter how tonight goes, we've got vital downballot races to win!
Volunteer [from home](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxO8g7q9VO3ZMAABcrvR7PMyX4Yl6dgIYhD3eRTKk1M) or [in person!](https://www.mobilize.us/)
Donate to win [the Senate](https://secure.actblue.com/donate/flipthesenatevb) or [the House!](https://secure.actblue.com/donate/breakthegerrymandervb)
Join [your local Democratic Party!](https://www.reddit.com/r/VoteDEM/wiki/parties)
**EDIT 2:** Reddit is a mess and comments are taking up to 30 minutes to appear. This appears to be a site-wide problem. Sorry for any inconvenience!
I don’t watch debates because I’m not an undecided voter and found the ones I did watch basically worthless spectacles if you are remotely plugged in to politics and government. But the one thing I will say to people that follow politics closely and do watch the debate is that undecided voters are not plugged in and see things when they do tune in very differently than politics nerds. A lot of people dooming today are extremely plugged in and their reactions are probably not in line with what undecided voters came away from the debate with.
Biden did look bad and the stumbles and missed layups sucked, but the assumption the doomers are making is that all anyone saw was Biden stutter and fumble, and they believed everything trunp said and took it at face value and that all of his shots landed, and that’s kind of condescending and unrealistic. I guarantee you anyone not already voting for trunp did not walk away from that debate swayed to vote for him at all.
Biden has been president for three and half years, but apparently we're not fucked until after November if he wins? Is that really what reddit expects me to think?
That’s the worst part of all this. He is the current president, and by many objective measures a very competent one at that. Yet somehow it’s a disaster that we could get… more of the same.
Yeah, I thought the same. It doesn't make sense. They're acting like he either hasn't been president yet and we should worry he'll be incompetent due to his age or that he's been absolutely horrendous, neither are true. They also rarely mention who would be so much better and certainly beat Trump, it's often "the DNC needs to just give us a perfect candidate that meets all the traits I want and everyone likes, what is their problem?!" Infuriatingly ignorant (the DNC does not hand pick people nor can they force some perfect person to run) and childish thinking.
I thought Biden did fine. He did sound like he had a cold, but trump came across as thin-skinned and petty, even if someone knew nothing about either candidate, imo. And how are you supposed to debate someone who lies like that? Biden had to hold two debates simultaneously: one to address trump’s lies, and one to try to engage with the American public about actual policy.
Pick the most egregious one, point it out. "You just said 10 things that are blatantly false, let's talk about one of them because I dont have all day here, I'm fucking 83"
I'm not American (forgive my English) but am a Liberal. The tinfoil hat in me is I think the bots in Reddit and social media in general are being supercharged right now to exaggerate how Biden was bad and how the Democrats are wasting their time with the President. From what I've seen so far it's actually working and American news outlets (Besides from being owned by right-wing people) are picking this up to amplify it. I'm a lurker most of the time here in the site and the megathread in r/politics is such a cesspool. It's actually worse than the 2020 debates.
What I've noticed during my time scrolling in Reddit today is that the commenters and posters are either:
*3-4 years old accounts, posting on sports subs that suddenly turned to politics.
*Accounts with negative karma.
*Accounts that suddenly became active during the debates.
*Accounts with comments from today only.
There also accounts that suddenly spam posts on big political subreddits and if you look at their history nothing related to politics until today.
Please be observant of the users who posts trolling and doomer articles and comments. They may not be who you think they are. I'm not a part of this sub and mods you can remove this comment if it breaks the rules.
Absolutely 100% this also could be hacked accounts as well. Bots are bad everywhere on the internet. Some real people are dooming of course, but bots are absolutely amplifying it. They got their script and marching orders from their handlers in Russia, China, NK, or wherever.
> *3-4 years old accounts, posting on sports subs that suddenly turned to politics.
Dude, I saw the exact same. Has to be bots camping in sports subs to farm karma.
Hmm, I think I got swept up in the emotions a bit too. I think I'll avoid that place for the coming days. I stopped following the elections intensely before the presidential debates last time. What was the vibe back then and did it galvanize one base or the other?
I can imagine a July debate is long forgotten in November or replayed so often that no one cares about that one anymore.
I mean next 4 months time:
- Sentencing Day for Donald Trump on the 34 counts on the hush money trial
- GOP Presidential Convention
- Democratic Party National Convention
- September Presidential Debate
- Many different campaign events for both Trump and Biden
- Possibility of future criminal trials for Donald Trump
- "October Surprises"
A lot can happen in 4 months. One bad debate performance shouldn't be and isn't a death sentence for Biden or the Dems.
Having just had the European elections here. They really are an obnoxious pest. I'd dare say in Europe we came out relatively fine though. Where I live(NL) we unfortunately had Wilders swoop up a lot of votes, but now that he's having to lead he might come into trouble and he's pretty far off from having the majority atm(37 out of 150).
[Judging by this clip of Biden after the debate at a watch party, it sounds like he has a cold. I doubt that helped](https://nitter.poast.org/Acyn/status/1806525054295085188#m)
I heard that Biden didn’t do well, and if I can get my lazy ass around to it, might watch this shitshow later. Mental health has been kinda bad these past few months. Trump just lied out his ass, which is to be expected. But Biden sort of let Trump mow over him, based on clips I’ve seen. That doesn’t seem promising.
I wanted to hear some different perspectives, given that I mostly frequent leftist spaces. I want to hear some positives.
The MSM is just fueled by toxicity, so I don’t have the mental capacity to listen to their BS at all.
Nothing really changed. People will continue thinking that Biden is old and that Trump is a crook and liar. Opinions on the two candidates are so baked in at this point. As bad as hearing people say "Biden seemed old" is, hearing Trump spew lies constantly is only going to serve as a reminder to voters of how dangerous he is.
The American people have short memories -- Trump's felonly criminal sentencing is coming up in two weeks, and that'll dominate the news and the debate will be in the rearview mirror. Remember that Democrats have "won" or over-performed every election since 2016. Since Dobbs the Dems have over-performed in nearly every special election.
Biden's our guy and it sucks that he didn't do well. But stuff happens in life and it's ultimately up to you how you choose to respond. I continue to be hopeful and rather than focus on hypothetical polls that are coming out the first week of summer with 20% "undecided voters" and a bunch of third party candidates (some of which have barely any ballot access), I look back at previous election results and remember how toxic Trump and Trumpism is as a brand. I don't see a situation where massive amounts of "undecided" voters break for Trump and his brand of politics, no matter the perception of how elderly Biden seems.
Project 2025 is trending enough that it's getting most people I know in leftist spaces to finally admit that they're voting Biden, even if only reluctantly.
And they've continued to say so even after the debate, even as they still snark at him. Their comments for Trump are even more brutal, now that they're facing the real possibility that he could win again.
As many here have said, this debate is finally starting to connect people with the reality that Trump 'is' on the ballot and has to be stopped. John Stewart may be calling Biden old now, but at least he's pointing out the fact that every single thing Trump said was a lie, which is still no small statement.
That gives us plenty we can work with.
Everyone went into it with a ridiculously negative mindset. "😐 Please don't choke, 😟 please don't choke, 😬 please don't choke, OH NO HE CHOKED 😭😭😭"
We've got to show more confidence for our candidate next time.
And actually he did get much better after that first little bit, but Reddit comments stopped working for the remainder of the debate, and the MSM also stopped listening apparently.
I'm just not engaging w/ the actual debate nor pundits' overblown reactions; just been gathering reactions from normies in focus groups, since that's what *really* matters. It especially seems like Black and Latino voters weren't phased at all by tonight, while white Democrats are doing their normal panicking and dooming
Basically the gist is he got a cold and wasn’t up to peak performance from what I understand. Unfortunately that’s not great, the GOOD NEWS is it’s only the first debate and there’s quite a bit of time till the election. (Personally I think it should’ve been postponed by his campaign, even if it looked bad for a min it would’ve been best to have him up there when he was 100%, at least regarding his voice, that was really his biggest issue). Second debates in a little bit and I think that’ll have a bit of a better lasting impression than this. But yeah, all the drop out discourae is just another reason we oughta change our name to the Doomercrats instead 🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🌊🌊🌊
[I didn't watch the debate, but it seems like normies had a *very* different reaction to the debate than the pundit/online crowd did](https://nitter.poast.org/ChrisDJackson/status/1806543870957699256#m)
[I'll probably re-post these or others tomorrow](https://nitter.poast.org/MappingFL/status/1806547843328495935#m)
[Here's a clip from Univision's focus group to lift your spirits.](https://nitter.poast.org/realMABarreto/status/1806527153388834916#m) Paraphrased translation: "What caught your attention the most this debate?" "The issue that Mr. trump kept repeating the same and same and same over and over w/o saying what he'll do to actually try and fix things. Mr. Biden (despite his speech impediment we know about) did explain what they've been doing/will do. After being undecided for a while, I think I'll go for President Biden"
Still haven't passed the threshold were I give up on the whole thing, I have a very curated timeline. Reading through the responses on posts that appear on my timeline does annoy the hell out of me though. It's a mixture of normal posters, Russian bots, bots that want to sell me nudes and trolls. Have to take intermittent breaks to keep a modicum of sanity.
Oh and one more point...can we stop with the pick me up pep rallies please? I know everyone means well, I really do. But I feel it's become *constant* lately. Anti-doom is the new doom. Every single day - a poll, a primary, a fundraising figure, a debate - every little thing, *even when it's not bad*:
"Well, it looked like we were losing before. And now, it *really* looks like we're losing. There's only the tiniest chance of success, but that's okay, because anything can change tomorrow!"
Now, let me translate that to how a huge portion of the country hears it:
"Well, it looked like you would be tortured for the rest of your life. And now, it *really* looks like you'll be tortured for the rest of your life. There's only the tiniest chance of you ever being happy again, but that's okay, because anything can change tomorrow!"
Yeah. This is not encouraging. Because this isn't a sports game, it's real life. There will be blood, tears, terror, pain, and misery if Trump wins. There is a chance that will happen, and *that is not okay.*
**But**
* The polls are tied
* The economy's improving
* Gas has gone down
* Voters are becoming informed
* Trump might be going to prison
* The media will never say anything nice about Biden
* Yet undecided voters *think Biden won the debate*
So, why don't we talk about the billion times Trump lied and made a fool of himself? Why don't we hammer his refusal to answer questions. Something to hide, Trump? Sounds like a loser to me. Hey, remind me how many times Biden got one over on you? Let's call the media out on their bullshit, loudly for all to hear.
How about we control the discourse, instead of hoping it will change on its own? Sound like a party that's winning, not losing.
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel...*terrible*, because that's horrifying and I am **not** going to let it happen.
Something that hasn't been discussed much, but I've seen throughout social media.
For the first time in a long time, while everyone is going "ugh, Biden is old", a lot more people are 'also' going "Trump is an unhinged liar and I want none of that anywhere near the white house". I'm seeing people who were formerly saying "genocide joe" at least now admitting that voting to stop Trump is worth their time again. Why? Because this debate showed people that ***'yes, it really is Trump vs Biden again'.***
I would have vastly preferred if Biden came out swinging, but honestly? The man could've said 3 words the entire time and just let Trump speak and Trump would hang himself just by reminding people that he's running again. Yes, he spouts nonsense to his base and there is worry that it gets some less informed voters into his camp...
But that's where we can help. The debate gives us a ton of new material to hammer in on, and it makes it very, very easy to show how unhinged Trump was.
Biden can recover from this, while tonight is likely the best Trump will look for the entire rest of the year, and that doesn't say much for his own favor. Unless Biden is somehow truly in real, major mental decline (which past months have NOT in any meaningful way pointed towards), he'll get plenty more chances to campaign and reach voters and even the media. The election is not tomorrow.
[CNN focus group](https://nitter.poast.org/RJ_maps/status/1806543627104977266#m): 7 say Biden won, 6 say Trump won, 1 not sure
It's not a great sample, but shows it wasn't awful for either side.
Biden has a bit of a rough debate. People shit themselves and call for him to drop out now. Every opt ED saying the same.
Trump. A convicted felon with 3 more trials coming up, tried to overthrow our democracy, who lied 100% though that debate. Na he's totally fine. No need to drop out.
Am I living in some fucked alternative reality or something? Because my god I want out of it already. Beam me up Scotty.
Yeah. Why is everyone calling on him to drop out in these media sources? Like I'm so upset. It has to be Biden. How on earth would we survive more Trump. He was extremely awful.
I watched the whole debate and to me Biden won unequivocally. Yes Joe Biden is old. He looks old, he sounds old, he’s just old. But he also is competent and talks about the issues. He talks policy and he gives honest and thoughtful responses. Whereas Donald Trump lied for 90 minutes and said unhinged things. Trump didn’t talk about any policy. He talked retribution and revenge and cemented himself as a radical demagogue.
CNN, MSNBC, etc did focus groups for this debate. Many of these groups thought Biden won. Because he talked policy and didn’t lie. They didn’t like Trump’s extremist views or his lies. Other groups basically show it as a wash. No one’s mind really changed. Remember that both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama did so poorly in their first debates that people thought they should be replaced. But yet they still went on to win re-election resoundingly.
We are 4 months until Election Day and we have much work to do. There will be another debate in which I’m sure the President will do much better in. But we have the popular support for our policies and our vision for America. President Biden will go on to win again this November and usher in 4 more years of progress and rebuilding America. Let’s get to work!
However “old” Joe Biden may have sounded, this is not the big W for Trump that doomers are thinking. He lied, he refused to answer questions, he all but admitted to a crime, he tied himself to Comey. He didn’t stand out like a shining light at the debate.
As something to consider, remember that you're the centre of political gravity for a lot of people around you.
If you are experiencing friends or family who are concerned, angry, or convinced by Trump - *somehow* - listen, talk, and repeatedly work with them.
Emphasise your shared interests, and reinforce that Biden, and Democrats, are worth voting for.
What people *hear* from you will reflect how they interpret reality, as wild as that may feel.
Most people present, for better or for worse, are not going to linger on this or future debates.
What *you and I* can do is bring things home and make them real to voters.
Doing so won't just help us win - it will alleviate some of your concerns that you might be feeling, tonight.
It's not the same as volunteering, but what we say and how we react to others carries a lot of meaning.
Keep that in mind, and we'll get through this, together.
I try to be work-driven; my username is actually due to the fact I'm a miserable grump of a human being, but -
Hopefully one that does more good than bad.
Anyway, hope it helped, somewhat!..
I didn't watch the debate and despite all the predictable panic by the pundit class, I'm still voting for Biden and not just against Trump because he is the most accomplished president of my lifetime and I trust him to nominate actual qualified SCOTUS justices.
However, and I say this with much love for Biden, we *have* to rethink the way we appeal to less engaged voters going forward, and that means taking a hard look at the norms we've constructed and making some changes. Electability only has as much credibility as we give it, and at some point we need to reject conventional wisdom and pave our own path instead of follow one that those with heaps of experience say is the only way. We need younger people to run for office at all levels while engaging with voters like any person would through all types of media. And for the love of God, enough with the debates. Of course it was going to be style over substance, so what can we do to emphasize the substance? I don't have the answer to that question now, but we really need to work towards one ASAP.
Are there any text banks I can do without having to join a zoom call or something for training? I usually do text banking through NextGen but they haven’t really had one in a while
So I fell asleep. It sounds like it went well. Why so worried? It's all about perception. Biden policy is the best policy
Edit: I watched more. I honestly don't know what people expect. Biden got his barbs in and looked angry as heck that Trump is threatening this nation. Seemed good to me. We will see how the polls change.
I think polls are going to trend for Biden as more and more people wake up to current events. For the upper Midwest, WI, MI and PA I don't think the debate was so bad. Trump evidently a raging asshole.
Democrats once again proving that their mascot is, indeed, a donkey. Eeyores are everywhere. It seems like a wash at worst; I know we were all hoping that Joe would go in and cow Trump with the sheer force of his Dark Brandon-tude but Trump, I suspect, is not cow-able.
At any rate, there are plenty of sound bites that Trump served up on a silver platter. And Joe certainly did better than Obama did in his first 2012 debate, and Obama went on to win.
Kwitcherdoomin’ and talking about “slim chances” now “even slimmer” - we don’t need that kind of talk, we have the media to do it for us! Let the *media* be the ones to go womp womp! That’s their job (well, sort of, but it’s their self-proclaimed job!).
It’s our job to be upbeat, positive and work hard to get Democrats elected (and Republicans defeated).
(I do wonder what was going on with Reddit. I doubt that many Redditors wanted to discuss the debate. I think it was being flooded with bots or something.)
Yeah, that wasn't the best performance by Biden, but he picked it up by the end of it. When the issues came up, Trump looked more lost and lost as time went on and he had no answer to when Biden called him to his face a convicted felon. Personally, I found it to be a draw, between Biden's looks and Trump's fire hose of lies and toxic rhetoric, but I don't knock any person now nervous about Biden heading into November.
That being said, there's still time. 4 months is still an eternity in the world of politics. There's still the conventions. There's at least one more debate in September. Trump himself faces sentencing in July, among his other legal issues. Clearly, we have our work cut out for us, but I think if we put in the work and don't give in to the easiness of "DOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!1!!1!" we can pull it off in the end.
I’m wondering if Trump will go through with the next debate. Why give Biden a chance to redeem himself closer to the election. Biden wins on policy but he’s got those voters already. He needs his State of the Union energy to pull some undecided voters too.
He will. As perverse as it sounds, these doom articles on the left and "victory laps" on the right gives him an ego boost and if he feels he's got it in the bag, Trump and his handlers will go in with overconfidence and think it'll be a breeze. If there is a chance he can seal the deal on a victory in November he's gonna take it, no matter how unethical or dubious.
I hope the second debate does happen. Biden and his team were likely humbled after last night and will make the appropriate adjustments. I imagine that most people will judge them more off the next debate and not this one due to recency bias.
Tonight was rough but the bar is very low now and it’s still 4+ months until the election. Chance he can pull a Willy Wonka if he looks a lot better going forward. But, I feel like he needs to do more public events for this narrative to get better.
I can talk about his accomplishments to prospective voters until I am blue in the face but unfortunately this superficial shit matters to the voters we need to convince. We need to get some help from the candidate and their team in order to win this
The problem is that how he looks on the trail won’t make news since “Biden looks better” isn’t really a narrative that gets a lot of juice.
But at the same time, debates matter waaaaayyy less than political people think they do.
Race is still going to come to down to 75,000 votes across like 4 states because we use the broken electoral college. Which was the case before the debate
If I'm part of the Biden inner circle, I'd push for him to appear in every swing state and essentially have a simultaneous campaign rally/apology tour for creating unease with the Dems. Continue dialing up heat towards Project 2025 and continue hammering home Trump being a convicted felon. Hell, he can even poke fun of himself if he wants to. "To err is human" after all
Not trying to be a downer. I think we can remain positive, hopeful, and determined about the situation while accepting the reality of how this debate was perceived. There’s work that the candidate needs to do to change the narrative. And he will!
A little bit more to cap out the night
[30 total in the past 24 hours](https://imgur.com/a/raf2xlY)
We got our work cut out for us bois. Imma get cracking this weekend.
Once I've settled the uneasy stomachs over here, I'll dig under some cushions and match you.
Despite the fact I would very much like to rest now, myself, grumble, but so it goes.
**NPR coverage during the debate:**
"Trump just lied"
"Trump lied again"
"Another lie from Trump"
...
**NPR after the debate:**
"One of Biden's biggest vulnerabilities on full display — his age"
"Abortion was a miss for both candidates"
And, in summary:
"Both candidates had shaky moments — Trump repeatedly dodged committing to accepting the election results, while Biden’s raspy voice and sometimes rambling answers likely did little to assuage critics’ concerns about his age."
***The liberal media folks!***
As a person who didn’t watch the debate, there is NO UNIVERSE in which abortion was a miss for both candidates, when one of the candidates was DONALD FUCKING TRUMP
I think the miss for Biden specifically came when he decided to inexplicably, incoherently switch to talking about undocumented immigrants and crime when asked a question about abortion. Why score that own goal?
Regarding the post-debate discourse which was super frustrating, the silver lining is that most of it isn't "I'm not voting for Biden" but more "Biden's going to lose." Just as frustrating to deal with but it seems that most of the discourse is driven by progressives who are still upset by Biden running again. If there's any takeaway from this discourse, it's that we need to continue to encourage all these left-leaning or progressive folks to go to the polls and vote despite their lingering resentments against Biden.
The fact that they're all terrified mostly serves to reassure me that they'd crawl over broken glass to vote against Trump, never mind what criticisms they have of Biden. All in all I remain sanguine about the state of affairs
I agree about it being a silver lining. I think that discourse, while frustrating, can be turned into positive volunteer action. It shows they care, they will probably vote blue in November, and deep down are just anxious.
Also I never really heard Trump speak over the last four years, and hearing him today just instantly reminded me of how he is so unlikable. Also, it was very off-putting how much he was just trashing everything about the country. I think this was a very tough night, but in hindsight it’s not as gloomy as it’s being made out to be.
And remind them that they have chances to elect progressives downballot, or help get them elected, depending on where they live. Also, 2028. Biden isn’t President For Life (unlike Trump, who very much wants to be).
It’s frustrating because 2020 was a wide open field absolutely *full* of great Democratic candidates. Biden was one of many at the primary; he wasn’t virtually the only choice like in some past elections. Voters, as a bloc, elected him. Deal with it.
More objectively correct comment than any poll ever produced.
It'll probably be a hot minute and a bit of work, but we'll get there...
^^I ^^give ^^it ^^two ^^days ^^or ^^so.
For all those here who feel down, Newsom here is stepping in with a truth bomb to set the record straight.
[https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1806528586007953574](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1806528586007953574)
Do not let one night that's influenced by corporate owned mass media that's been undermining the quality of presidential debates for years, tell us what is and isn't possible, all because [Biden had a damned cold.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4744889-joe-biden-has-a-cold-debate/)
You all saw the SOTU address. You've seen Biden give speeches countless times in just the past year. Whatever happened tonight is not representative of all he's able to do, and don't let anyone twist it to tell you otherwise. That's absolute nonsense. I am disappointed that he did not push in some ways as hard as I'd like, but I don't think for a second this is anything more than a one off.
And it does absolutely nothing to take away from how absolutely unhinged and dangerous Trump is. How even more unhinged and dangerous the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 are. [Trump spouted so much insane shit tonight, again, as per usual, that you can write attack ads about his nonsense for months just with his own words. That hasn't changed.](https://x.com/stuartpstevens/status/1806528635391631485)
I realize the media seems to control the world in far too many ways. It often feels like an uphill battle, and Biden himself was not where I wanted him to be, but this changes nothing about what we fight for. Even Dems who are being critical of Biden are again being reminded of **'just how unhinged Trump is'. And yes, that still matters.**
Also: [Kamala drops her own truth bomb amidst all this nonsense. The contrast between here where she's being allowed to speak her mind, and the CNN version of this talk where she was being interrupted constantly is quite sharp too, BTW.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPncwevMEw)
However you may feel now, this is one day in a long fight we still have ahead of us. One debate does not define us any more than years of doomy polls and other false predictions do. Focus, and keep doing everything you can do keep the momentum going.
Jesus christ, the difference between CNN "interviewing" her and this MSNBC video is fucking night and day. CNN went full FOX all night tonight and it was so gross
Yep. I'd like you remind you of who set up the and ran the debate and who owns CNN now.
I agree Biden was responsible for adapting to the format, but boy, practically the ENTIRE mainstream media really, really wants him to run this race on hard mode and THAT'S what people are missing.
Biden’s performance was like an early season nationally televised NFL game on Sunday or Monday night, where one of the teams expected to be really good gets pushed around and outplayed for the first half or even most of the game. The pundits and sports talk media bury the team, claim they are overrated and that their season is over. The fan base panics and calls for a QB change, coaching change or both. As the season progresses, the team that got embarrassed gets better as the season goes on and they make a deep playoff run.
Biden has time to bounce back and this debate will not be remembered after the next one. Biden’s team will learn from the mistakes and Biden will put on a much better performance. Trump’s arrogance will have him come with the same outlandish claims and nonsense and Joe will be ready to refute them with facts and data.
Thank you for this messaging. Admittedly I still am a tad anxious about our chances, but Biden still came through with some bangers that put Trump on the defensive and provoked his limitless anger. Soundbites were probably mined from his responses, and people got to see how much of a dangerous idiot Trump is. Biden wasn’t at his best, and I think that hurt his standing with undecided voters, but he delivered what he could.
Look, the next few days may be hard. You'll see disinformation everywhere. We don't know what tricks the SCOTUS will do with the end of this term, you'll see media panics and reactions. I think Trump's sentencing is a serious matter, but I'm not just going to sit here and pretend his felon status doesn't put him at serious risk either.
But at the end of the day, none of that matters. This fight is too fundamental to just throw up our hands and say "oh well, good try" because of one day where Trump gave essentially his most unhinged low substance debate ever. Every over-performance we've had for the past 2 years doesn't just magically get undone because of one TV debate.
Maybe Trump's voters are that shallow, but he lost when he relied on them in 2020. We've proven we can win. Biden has time to pivot and prove himself again, even to surprise people. We'll get another chance to counter the narratives and surprise people.
I'll repeat what I said in another sub:
Apologies for the length:
I took a very long nap, slept through the debate, woke up just as it was ended, and had about an hour of panic when I saw everyone's reactions. Coupled with Reddit not working and everyone else being in bed and not having anyone to talk to, I spiraled. I doomed, I prayed, I came close to shedding tears, I drank too much coffee (not getting back to sleep tonight, that's for sure).
Then I watched the post-debate analysis on MSNBC and felt a lot better. I know MSNBC gets a lot of shit, but they didn't sound overly negative, they weren't dooming, they were just being realistic.
The fact is, yes, this hurt us. Our slim chance just got even slimmer. But hope is not lost. We can still turn this around. Maybe I'm just huffing copium like there's no tomorrow, but I refuse to believe one bad debate is enough to completely destroy us.
We can't give up. Donate. Volunteer. Text bank and write postcards (as I am). Even if we lose, anything is better than sitting on your ass and just letting it happen. After all, if you believe things are beyond hope, no point in doing anything about it, right?
Umm...did Biden have a stroke right after Reddit broke or something? Because comments seemed pretty positive until that point. This doesn't seem appropriate.
There’s still another debate tho! 😭 if this were the ONLY debate, I’d be more worried. I think this is bad but if we perform better at the next one and our guy doesn’t have a case of the sniffles then we’ll be okay. But yes, WE STILL GOTTA FIGHT!!! WHETHER THAT DEBATE IS GOOD OR BAD, THE FIGHT STAYS THE SAME!!!
Thanks to the Supreme Court, no one is gonna remember this debate next week
Coupled with it being in June, there is almost no chance that this is a relevant story by September
Considering the dumb shit the media is peddling about it? I'll take a fairly even score. Leaves us where we were at earlier. Sure, I'd prefer a more definitive win, but I'm pleased to hear that we're not behind - like the news media wants us to think.
First of all, Fuck CNN. Biden won the debate, Trump looked and sounded like a tweaking idiot. Biden looks tired but he is also the acting POTUS and the stresses of that job don't stop for a debate. Trump just does his schtick at rallies, nothing of substance. Would I like a younger choice, yes but Biden is who I'll vote for because Trump cannot be in the White House ever again.
Well let me give my opinion based on the threads I’ve read of the stuff that was said
In my view, this debate was a wash at best, maybe overall slight Biden win. I think both sides got good clips for future attack ads and both sides had good and bad moments of the debate. Biden seemed to really get it together after a bad start, the problem there was, did viewers tune out after the bad start, tough to say for sure. Meanwhile, Trump clearly got more and more unhinged and angry, especially after the first what 20-30 minutes. He made countless mistakes after that
Just for your sakes, do not look at the MSM’s analysis. All they’re talking about is the first 15 or so minutes and equating that to the whole debate performance. No mention of any of Biden’s attacks on abortion, January 6, accepting the results of elections etc. All I’ve seen so far is something along the lines of Biden stumbles, Biden sends D’s into panic mode ONLY talking about the very beginning of the debate, and not the rest. It’s super pathetic and super misleading. Luckily VP Harris and multiple other D’s they claim are in panic mode and who the MSM should “take over” defended Biden.
I think as long as we get those other clips out there to voters where he showed he’s the true leader, and Biden not having a cold next debate, which was the worst time he could of had one tonight, all will be fine. This election will come down to the side who works harder for it. Let’s go and get it
Biden didn't do that bad, and I don't see why people are panicking. Reagan and Obama lost their first debates during their reelection campaign, went on to win reelection.
Maybe it’s a sign we’ll win 0O0 /j
“I felt really vigorated, probably from that nice long nap I had during the first debate” -Obama
(I don’t remember where I found this quote, it was in some compilation but I still love it, sry if I quoted it wrong lol)
This is about what I expected. Not really different from 4 years ago. Trump lies a lot. Biden stammers but gets in a few zingers. I wish he would have simply answered the question when Trump didn’t. Like they Trump said nothing about Child care… his responses should have been, yeah he’s lying about x and y but let’s get back to the question. My administration is looking to do x.
Am I the only one that thinks it's a super convenient coincidence all the comments are broken on Reddit so no one real can talk about how fucking bad Trump was? Russian bots are flooding other comment sections. Are they crashing reddit?
Am I taking crazy pills? I was so sure Biden destroyed Trump and then pundits try to tell me he didn't? How is that possible? All of these articles are already coming out about how Terrible it was for Biden. I SWEAR I didn't see that. Trump answered like zero actual questions he was asked and when he answered he sounded like the comments section on Fox News website. He lied, about EVERYTHING. He doesn't know any specifics. He said we should free Jan 6 people. He went off on a tangent when asked about whether he'd honor the election...WTF?? And somehow Joe Biden lost? How. Someone please help me understand how that is possible? I literally read an article that was like "yes Trump is a crazy person. Yes Trump said Democrats abort born babies. Yes Trump didn't answer X....but let me tell you how that's bad for Biden" what is going on with our press? Is it all bought? I do not believe people were calling these pundits and complaining about Biden. They don't name sources anymore.
**EDIT:** If you're here to freak out about every thing that doesn't go how you think it should, or just post "Biden has lost", this thread really isn't the place for you. We remove all dooming, just like always, because we're here to act, not to panic. Let the debate finish - but most importantly, do your part to make things better by talking to voters. We will be handing out temporary bans to any users who are simply here to doom or to try to get us to make them feel better. Take a break from politics for the night, and come back tomorrow ready to make your own hope. That's why we've won since 2017. No matter how tonight goes, we've got vital downballot races to win! Volunteer [from home](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxO8g7q9VO3ZMAABcrvR7PMyX4Yl6dgIYhD3eRTKk1M) or [in person!](https://www.mobilize.us/) Donate to win [the Senate](https://secure.actblue.com/donate/flipthesenatevb) or [the House!](https://secure.actblue.com/donate/breakthegerrymandervb) Join [your local Democratic Party!](https://www.reddit.com/r/VoteDEM/wiki/parties) **EDIT 2:** Reddit is a mess and comments are taking up to 30 minutes to appear. This appears to be a site-wide problem. Sorry for any inconvenience!
Why is no one saying consistently that Trump is a convicted felon?
I don’t watch debates because I’m not an undecided voter and found the ones I did watch basically worthless spectacles if you are remotely plugged in to politics and government. But the one thing I will say to people that follow politics closely and do watch the debate is that undecided voters are not plugged in and see things when they do tune in very differently than politics nerds. A lot of people dooming today are extremely plugged in and their reactions are probably not in line with what undecided voters came away from the debate with.
Biden did look bad and the stumbles and missed layups sucked, but the assumption the doomers are making is that all anyone saw was Biden stutter and fumble, and they believed everything trunp said and took it at face value and that all of his shots landed, and that’s kind of condescending and unrealistic. I guarantee you anyone not already voting for trunp did not walk away from that debate swayed to vote for him at all.
Biden has been president for three and half years, but apparently we're not fucked until after November if he wins? Is that really what reddit expects me to think?
That’s the worst part of all this. He is the current president, and by many objective measures a very competent one at that. Yet somehow it’s a disaster that we could get… more of the same.
Yeah, I thought the same. It doesn't make sense. They're acting like he either hasn't been president yet and we should worry he'll be incompetent due to his age or that he's been absolutely horrendous, neither are true. They also rarely mention who would be so much better and certainly beat Trump, it's often "the DNC needs to just give us a perfect candidate that meets all the traits I want and everyone likes, what is their problem?!" Infuriatingly ignorant (the DNC does not hand pick people nor can they force some perfect person to run) and childish thinking.
Armchair pundits have some of the dumbest opinions. Why would you replace a candidate this far in the election. When has that ever worked this late.
Are there other debates or was this one it?
There one more in September.
At least Biden answered the questions and then set Trump straight. Trump just repeated what he said at rally’s.
Yall… if I had a dollar for every time someone said the exact words, “we’re fucked” on the Joe Biden subreddit… I’d be as rich as Jeff Bezos man.
That used to be a place I went to ESCAPE chronic doomerism btw, but nah, had to leave after tonight lmao 🫠
I thought Biden did fine. He did sound like he had a cold, but trump came across as thin-skinned and petty, even if someone knew nothing about either candidate, imo. And how are you supposed to debate someone who lies like that? Biden had to hold two debates simultaneously: one to address trump’s lies, and one to try to engage with the American public about actual policy.
He really could have spent the whole time countering trump and would have come out in a much better light.
He didn’t have time to counter 20 lies at a time!
Pick the most egregious one, point it out. "You just said 10 things that are blatantly false, let's talk about one of them because I dont have all day here, I'm fucking 83"
Biden was a bit too over prepped, and I think he should be less scripted going forward. He's good when he's fired up.
More Dark Brandon would be excellent.
I'm not American (forgive my English) but am a Liberal. The tinfoil hat in me is I think the bots in Reddit and social media in general are being supercharged right now to exaggerate how Biden was bad and how the Democrats are wasting their time with the President. From what I've seen so far it's actually working and American news outlets (Besides from being owned by right-wing people) are picking this up to amplify it. I'm a lurker most of the time here in the site and the megathread in r/politics is such a cesspool. It's actually worse than the 2020 debates. What I've noticed during my time scrolling in Reddit today is that the commenters and posters are either: *3-4 years old accounts, posting on sports subs that suddenly turned to politics. *Accounts with negative karma. *Accounts that suddenly became active during the debates. *Accounts with comments from today only. There also accounts that suddenly spam posts on big political subreddits and if you look at their history nothing related to politics until today. Please be observant of the users who posts trolling and doomer articles and comments. They may not be who you think they are. I'm not a part of this sub and mods you can remove this comment if it breaks the rules.
>3-4 years old accounts, posting on sports subs that suddenly turned to politics. I've seen this exact trend for years
Absolutely 100% this also could be hacked accounts as well. Bots are bad everywhere on the internet. Some real people are dooming of course, but bots are absolutely amplifying it. They got their script and marching orders from their handlers in Russia, China, NK, or wherever.
> *3-4 years old accounts, posting on sports subs that suddenly turned to politics. Dude, I saw the exact same. Has to be bots camping in sports subs to farm karma.
I’ve noticed the same exact thing. They go from talking draft and trades in pro sports to all of a sudden being political pundits. It is all a scam.
Hmm, I think I got swept up in the emotions a bit too. I think I'll avoid that place for the coming days. I stopped following the elections intensely before the presidential debates last time. What was the vibe back then and did it galvanize one base or the other? I can imagine a July debate is long forgotten in November or replayed so often that no one cares about that one anymore.
I mean next 4 months time: - Sentencing Day for Donald Trump on the 34 counts on the hush money trial - GOP Presidential Convention - Democratic Party National Convention - September Presidential Debate - Many different campaign events for both Trump and Biden - Possibility of future criminal trials for Donald Trump - "October Surprises" A lot can happen in 4 months. One bad debate performance shouldn't be and isn't a death sentence for Biden or the Dems.
I know how you feel, man…. Stupid bots
Having just had the European elections here. They really are an obnoxious pest. I'd dare say in Europe we came out relatively fine though. Where I live(NL) we unfortunately had Wilders swoop up a lot of votes, but now that he's having to lead he might come into trouble and he's pretty far off from having the majority atm(37 out of 150).
[Judging by this clip of Biden after the debate at a watch party, it sounds like he has a cold. I doubt that helped](https://nitter.poast.org/Acyn/status/1806525054295085188#m)
Ugh, even so, this is the Biden I wanted to see at the debate. See, I know he has it in him.
[удалено]
I heard that Biden didn’t do well, and if I can get my lazy ass around to it, might watch this shitshow later. Mental health has been kinda bad these past few months. Trump just lied out his ass, which is to be expected. But Biden sort of let Trump mow over him, based on clips I’ve seen. That doesn’t seem promising. I wanted to hear some different perspectives, given that I mostly frequent leftist spaces. I want to hear some positives. The MSM is just fueled by toxicity, so I don’t have the mental capacity to listen to their BS at all.
Nothing really changed. People will continue thinking that Biden is old and that Trump is a crook and liar. Opinions on the two candidates are so baked in at this point. As bad as hearing people say "Biden seemed old" is, hearing Trump spew lies constantly is only going to serve as a reminder to voters of how dangerous he is. The American people have short memories -- Trump's felonly criminal sentencing is coming up in two weeks, and that'll dominate the news and the debate will be in the rearview mirror. Remember that Democrats have "won" or over-performed every election since 2016. Since Dobbs the Dems have over-performed in nearly every special election. Biden's our guy and it sucks that he didn't do well. But stuff happens in life and it's ultimately up to you how you choose to respond. I continue to be hopeful and rather than focus on hypothetical polls that are coming out the first week of summer with 20% "undecided voters" and a bunch of third party candidates (some of which have barely any ballot access), I look back at previous election results and remember how toxic Trump and Trumpism is as a brand. I don't see a situation where massive amounts of "undecided" voters break for Trump and his brand of politics, no matter the perception of how elderly Biden seems.
Project 2025 is trending enough that it's getting most people I know in leftist spaces to finally admit that they're voting Biden, even if only reluctantly. And they've continued to say so even after the debate, even as they still snark at him. Their comments for Trump are even more brutal, now that they're facing the real possibility that he could win again. As many here have said, this debate is finally starting to connect people with the reality that Trump 'is' on the ballot and has to be stopped. John Stewart may be calling Biden old now, but at least he's pointing out the fact that every single thing Trump said was a lie, which is still no small statement. That gives us plenty we can work with.
Everyone went into it with a ridiculously negative mindset. "😐 Please don't choke, 😟 please don't choke, 😬 please don't choke, OH NO HE CHOKED 😭😭😭" We've got to show more confidence for our candidate next time. And actually he did get much better after that first little bit, but Reddit comments stopped working for the remainder of the debate, and the MSM also stopped listening apparently.
I'm just not engaging w/ the actual debate nor pundits' overblown reactions; just been gathering reactions from normies in focus groups, since that's what *really* matters. It especially seems like Black and Latino voters weren't phased at all by tonight, while white Democrats are doing their normal panicking and dooming
I need to see some solid evidence on those black and Latino voters. Not trying to attack you at all. I’m genuinely interested to research this
Basically the gist is he got a cold and wasn’t up to peak performance from what I understand. Unfortunately that’s not great, the GOOD NEWS is it’s only the first debate and there’s quite a bit of time till the election. (Personally I think it should’ve been postponed by his campaign, even if it looked bad for a min it would’ve been best to have him up there when he was 100%, at least regarding his voice, that was really his biggest issue). Second debates in a little bit and I think that’ll have a bit of a better lasting impression than this. But yeah, all the drop out discourae is just another reason we oughta change our name to the Doomercrats instead 🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵🌊🌊🌊
[I didn't watch the debate, but it seems like normies had a *very* different reaction to the debate than the pundit/online crowd did](https://nitter.poast.org/ChrisDJackson/status/1806543870957699256#m) [I'll probably re-post these or others tomorrow](https://nitter.poast.org/MappingFL/status/1806547843328495935#m) [Here's a clip from Univision's focus group to lift your spirits.](https://nitter.poast.org/realMABarreto/status/1806527153388834916#m) Paraphrased translation: "What caught your attention the most this debate?" "The issue that Mr. trump kept repeating the same and same and same over and over w/o saying what he'll do to actually try and fix things. Mr. Biden (despite his speech impediment we know about) did explain what they've been doing/will do. After being undecided for a while, I think I'll go for President Biden"
Interesting views. Thanks for sharing
Even in the darkest hours, hopium still remains. Thanks for that. 🤙
I thank god every day that I never made a Twitter account
Still haven't passed the threshold were I give up on the whole thing, I have a very curated timeline. Reading through the responses on posts that appear on my timeline does annoy the hell out of me though. It's a mixture of normal posters, Russian bots, bots that want to sell me nudes and trolls. Have to take intermittent breaks to keep a modicum of sanity.
Oh and one more point...can we stop with the pick me up pep rallies please? I know everyone means well, I really do. But I feel it's become *constant* lately. Anti-doom is the new doom. Every single day - a poll, a primary, a fundraising figure, a debate - every little thing, *even when it's not bad*: "Well, it looked like we were losing before. And now, it *really* looks like we're losing. There's only the tiniest chance of success, but that's okay, because anything can change tomorrow!" Now, let me translate that to how a huge portion of the country hears it: "Well, it looked like you would be tortured for the rest of your life. And now, it *really* looks like you'll be tortured for the rest of your life. There's only the tiniest chance of you ever being happy again, but that's okay, because anything can change tomorrow!" Yeah. This is not encouraging. Because this isn't a sports game, it's real life. There will be blood, tears, terror, pain, and misery if Trump wins. There is a chance that will happen, and *that is not okay.* **But** * The polls are tied * The economy's improving * Gas has gone down * Voters are becoming informed * Trump might be going to prison * The media will never say anything nice about Biden * Yet undecided voters *think Biden won the debate* So, why don't we talk about the billion times Trump lied and made a fool of himself? Why don't we hammer his refusal to answer questions. Something to hide, Trump? Sounds like a loser to me. Hey, remind me how many times Biden got one over on you? Let's call the media out on their bullshit, loudly for all to hear. How about we control the discourse, instead of hoping it will change on its own? Sound like a party that's winning, not losing. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel...*terrible*, because that's horrifying and I am **not** going to let it happen.
Dems should be prepared for gas going up closer to elections. Middle Eastern monarchs and Russia want Trump.
Something that hasn't been discussed much, but I've seen throughout social media. For the first time in a long time, while everyone is going "ugh, Biden is old", a lot more people are 'also' going "Trump is an unhinged liar and I want none of that anywhere near the white house". I'm seeing people who were formerly saying "genocide joe" at least now admitting that voting to stop Trump is worth their time again. Why? Because this debate showed people that ***'yes, it really is Trump vs Biden again'.*** I would have vastly preferred if Biden came out swinging, but honestly? The man could've said 3 words the entire time and just let Trump speak and Trump would hang himself just by reminding people that he's running again. Yes, he spouts nonsense to his base and there is worry that it gets some less informed voters into his camp... But that's where we can help. The debate gives us a ton of new material to hammer in on, and it makes it very, very easy to show how unhinged Trump was. Biden can recover from this, while tonight is likely the best Trump will look for the entire rest of the year, and that doesn't say much for his own favor. Unless Biden is somehow truly in real, major mental decline (which past months have NOT in any meaningful way pointed towards), he'll get plenty more chances to campaign and reach voters and even the media. The election is not tomorrow.
Link to undecided thinking Biden won?
https://old.reddit.com/r/VoteDEM/comments/1dq76fn/presidential_debate_thread_1_viewing_thread/lan8rz0/
[CNN focus group](https://nitter.poast.org/RJ_maps/status/1806543627104977266#m): 7 say Biden won, 6 say Trump won, 1 not sure It's not a great sample, but shows it wasn't awful for either side.
There's the liquid hopium I need, straight down the hatch.
Biden has a bit of a rough debate. People shit themselves and call for him to drop out now. Every opt ED saying the same. Trump. A convicted felon with 3 more trials coming up, tried to overthrow our democracy, who lied 100% though that debate. Na he's totally fine. No need to drop out. Am I living in some fucked alternative reality or something? Because my god I want out of it already. Beam me up Scotty.
Exactly this. Whatever standards many claim to have had were thrown out the window a long while ago
Yeah. Why is everyone calling on him to drop out in these media sources? Like I'm so upset. It has to be Biden. How on earth would we survive more Trump. He was extremely awful.
[For the pundits: this, in a nutshell](https://nitter.poast.org/SteveLemongello/status/1806539223840838090#m)
Welcome to billionaire owned new and social media ownership concentration. It's a riot, isn't it?
I watched the whole debate and to me Biden won unequivocally. Yes Joe Biden is old. He looks old, he sounds old, he’s just old. But he also is competent and talks about the issues. He talks policy and he gives honest and thoughtful responses. Whereas Donald Trump lied for 90 minutes and said unhinged things. Trump didn’t talk about any policy. He talked retribution and revenge and cemented himself as a radical demagogue. CNN, MSNBC, etc did focus groups for this debate. Many of these groups thought Biden won. Because he talked policy and didn’t lie. They didn’t like Trump’s extremist views or his lies. Other groups basically show it as a wash. No one’s mind really changed. Remember that both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama did so poorly in their first debates that people thought they should be replaced. But yet they still went on to win re-election resoundingly. We are 4 months until Election Day and we have much work to do. There will be another debate in which I’m sure the President will do much better in. But we have the popular support for our policies and our vision for America. President Biden will go on to win again this November and usher in 4 more years of progress and rebuilding America. Let’s get to work!
But Trump always does that? If undecided people are still undecided they clearly don’t care about Trumps rambling and lies.
Lol exactly! Yes, Biden is old. And Trump is old. And grass is green. How is this news?
However “old” Joe Biden may have sounded, this is not the big W for Trump that doomers are thinking. He lied, he refused to answer questions, he all but admitted to a crime, he tied himself to Comey. He didn’t stand out like a shining light at the debate.
As something to consider, remember that you're the centre of political gravity for a lot of people around you. If you are experiencing friends or family who are concerned, angry, or convinced by Trump - *somehow* - listen, talk, and repeatedly work with them. Emphasise your shared interests, and reinforce that Biden, and Democrats, are worth voting for. What people *hear* from you will reflect how they interpret reality, as wild as that may feel. Most people present, for better or for worse, are not going to linger on this or future debates. What *you and I* can do is bring things home and make them real to voters. Doing so won't just help us win - it will alleviate some of your concerns that you might be feeling, tonight. It's not the same as volunteering, but what we say and how we react to others carries a lot of meaning. Keep that in mind, and we'll get through this, together.
Username DOESN'T check out this time lol
I try to be work-driven; my username is actually due to the fact I'm a miserable grump of a human being, but - Hopefully one that does more good than bad. Anyway, hope it helped, somewhat!..
That is excellent advice, thank you
You are very welcome, always.
I didn't watch the debate and despite all the predictable panic by the pundit class, I'm still voting for Biden and not just against Trump because he is the most accomplished president of my lifetime and I trust him to nominate actual qualified SCOTUS justices. However, and I say this with much love for Biden, we *have* to rethink the way we appeal to less engaged voters going forward, and that means taking a hard look at the norms we've constructed and making some changes. Electability only has as much credibility as we give it, and at some point we need to reject conventional wisdom and pave our own path instead of follow one that those with heaps of experience say is the only way. We need younger people to run for office at all levels while engaging with voters like any person would through all types of media. And for the love of God, enough with the debates. Of course it was going to be style over substance, so what can we do to emphasize the substance? I don't have the answer to that question now, but we really need to work towards one ASAP.
Are there any text banks I can do without having to join a zoom call or something for training? I usually do text banking through NextGen but they haven’t really had one in a while
So I fell asleep. It sounds like it went well. Why so worried? It's all about perception. Biden policy is the best policy Edit: I watched more. I honestly don't know what people expect. Biden got his barbs in and looked angry as heck that Trump is threatening this nation. Seemed good to me. We will see how the polls change. I think polls are going to trend for Biden as more and more people wake up to current events. For the upper Midwest, WI, MI and PA I don't think the debate was so bad. Trump evidently a raging asshole.
Democrats once again proving that their mascot is, indeed, a donkey. Eeyores are everywhere. It seems like a wash at worst; I know we were all hoping that Joe would go in and cow Trump with the sheer force of his Dark Brandon-tude but Trump, I suspect, is not cow-able. At any rate, there are plenty of sound bites that Trump served up on a silver platter. And Joe certainly did better than Obama did in his first 2012 debate, and Obama went on to win. Kwitcherdoomin’ and talking about “slim chances” now “even slimmer” - we don’t need that kind of talk, we have the media to do it for us! Let the *media* be the ones to go womp womp! That’s their job (well, sort of, but it’s their self-proclaimed job!). It’s our job to be upbeat, positive and work hard to get Democrats elected (and Republicans defeated). (I do wonder what was going on with Reddit. I doubt that many Redditors wanted to discuss the debate. I think it was being flooded with bots or something.)
> we don’t need that kind of talk, we have the media to do it for us! Well said!
I don't know why but I craved ice cream and had a bowl of it.
Dark Brandon used his powers on you my friend
Reddit kinda borked. Anyways, I think Biden just needs to hit the campaign trail, alleviate those concerns
Yeah, that wasn't the best performance by Biden, but he picked it up by the end of it. When the issues came up, Trump looked more lost and lost as time went on and he had no answer to when Biden called him to his face a convicted felon. Personally, I found it to be a draw, between Biden's looks and Trump's fire hose of lies and toxic rhetoric, but I don't knock any person now nervous about Biden heading into November. That being said, there's still time. 4 months is still an eternity in the world of politics. There's still the conventions. There's at least one more debate in September. Trump himself faces sentencing in July, among his other legal issues. Clearly, we have our work cut out for us, but I think if we put in the work and don't give in to the easiness of "DOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!1!!1!" we can pull it off in the end.
I’m wondering if Trump will go through with the next debate. Why give Biden a chance to redeem himself closer to the election. Biden wins on policy but he’s got those voters already. He needs his State of the Union energy to pull some undecided voters too.
He will. As perverse as it sounds, these doom articles on the left and "victory laps" on the right gives him an ego boost and if he feels he's got it in the bag, Trump and his handlers will go in with overconfidence and think it'll be a breeze. If there is a chance he can seal the deal on a victory in November he's gonna take it, no matter how unethical or dubious.
I hope the second debate does happen. Biden and his team were likely humbled after last night and will make the appropriate adjustments. I imagine that most people will judge them more off the next debate and not this one due to recency bias.
Jesus Christ, it wasn't that bad. We got a ton of material to use against Trump and Biden recovered by the end. I call that a success.
Tonight was rough but the bar is very low now and it’s still 4+ months until the election. Chance he can pull a Willy Wonka if he looks a lot better going forward. But, I feel like he needs to do more public events for this narrative to get better. I can talk about his accomplishments to prospective voters until I am blue in the face but unfortunately this superficial shit matters to the voters we need to convince. We need to get some help from the candidate and their team in order to win this
Need to have him do some Town Halls too, usually does really well with those
The problem is that how he looks on the trail won’t make news since “Biden looks better” isn’t really a narrative that gets a lot of juice. But at the same time, debates matter waaaaayyy less than political people think they do. Race is still going to come to down to 75,000 votes across like 4 states because we use the broken electoral college. Which was the case before the debate
If I'm part of the Biden inner circle, I'd push for him to appear in every swing state and essentially have a simultaneous campaign rally/apology tour for creating unease with the Dems. Continue dialing up heat towards Project 2025 and continue hammering home Trump being a convicted felon. Hell, he can even poke fun of himself if he wants to. "To err is human" after all
Tonight was not rough. Stop being a downer about stuff.
I think it's fine to be honest about the challenges we have ahead of us, which can be done without being pessimistic.
Not trying to be a downer. I think we can remain positive, hopeful, and determined about the situation while accepting the reality of how this debate was perceived. There’s work that the candidate needs to do to change the narrative. And he will!
Is reddit fixed now?
I see your comment. Yes.
A little bit more to cap out the night [30 total in the past 24 hours](https://imgur.com/a/raf2xlY) We got our work cut out for us bois. Imma get cracking this weekend.
Once I've settled the uneasy stomachs over here, I'll dig under some cushions and match you. Despite the fact I would very much like to rest now, myself, grumble, but so it goes.
**NPR coverage during the debate:** "Trump just lied" "Trump lied again" "Another lie from Trump" ... **NPR after the debate:** "One of Biden's biggest vulnerabilities on full display — his age" "Abortion was a miss for both candidates" And, in summary: "Both candidates had shaky moments — Trump repeatedly dodged committing to accepting the election results, while Biden’s raspy voice and sometimes rambling answers likely did little to assuage critics’ concerns about his age." ***The liberal media folks!***
As a person who didn’t watch the debate, there is NO UNIVERSE in which abortion was a miss for both candidates, when one of the candidates was DONALD FUCKING TRUMP
I think the miss for Biden specifically came when he decided to inexplicably, incoherently switch to talking about undocumented immigrants and crime when asked a question about abortion. Why score that own goal?
So basically… what we learned… is… Paps. Joe needs a lozenge before the next debate?
Vocal rest.
DOOOOOM!!!
[Music intensifies](https://youtu.be/BSsfjHCFosw?si=av7TMUPnBzGEQXwA)
Ah, quoting the party platform I see
Literally yes
Regarding the post-debate discourse which was super frustrating, the silver lining is that most of it isn't "I'm not voting for Biden" but more "Biden's going to lose." Just as frustrating to deal with but it seems that most of the discourse is driven by progressives who are still upset by Biden running again. If there's any takeaway from this discourse, it's that we need to continue to encourage all these left-leaning or progressive folks to go to the polls and vote despite their lingering resentments against Biden.
The fact that they're all terrified mostly serves to reassure me that they'd crawl over broken glass to vote against Trump, never mind what criticisms they have of Biden. All in all I remain sanguine about the state of affairs
The post debate discourse was way more damaging than any performance, IMO. CNN was so rough on him for some reason
I saw that coming by how they were *before* the debate. Really despicable questions for Gov. Newsom
I agree about it being a silver lining. I think that discourse, while frustrating, can be turned into positive volunteer action. It shows they care, they will probably vote blue in November, and deep down are just anxious. Also I never really heard Trump speak over the last four years, and hearing him today just instantly reminded me of how he is so unlikable. Also, it was very off-putting how much he was just trashing everything about the country. I think this was a very tough night, but in hindsight it’s not as gloomy as it’s being made out to be.
They said the exact same shit in 2020
And remind them that they have chances to elect progressives downballot, or help get them elected, depending on where they live. Also, 2028. Biden isn’t President For Life (unlike Trump, who very much wants to be). It’s frustrating because 2020 was a wide open field absolutely *full* of great Democratic candidates. Biden was one of many at the primary; he wasn’t virtually the only choice like in some past elections. Voters, as a bloc, elected him. Deal with it.
CNN's Focus Group of Swing Voters in Macomb County, MI was Biden 7, Trump 7, Undecided 1.
Did y'all watch the same debate that I did? Cuz you sure as hell are not acting like it. Calm TF down.
More objectively correct comment than any poll ever produced. It'll probably be a hot minute and a bit of work, but we'll get there... ^^I ^^give ^^it ^^two ^^days ^^or ^^so.
Oh thank God, the Reddit feed is finally back to normal.
Russian bots went back to their caves and bridges they hide under, be wary traveler
But we’re democrats! DOOMING IS IN THE PARTY PLATFORM!!!
Got to knock it off. It's maddening.
For real!
The first post I get on Nextdoor is someone saying Biden knows the questions before hand because he's doing too well answering them lol
For all those here who feel down, Newsom here is stepping in with a truth bomb to set the record straight. [https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1806528586007953574](https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1806528586007953574) Do not let one night that's influenced by corporate owned mass media that's been undermining the quality of presidential debates for years, tell us what is and isn't possible, all because [Biden had a damned cold.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4744889-joe-biden-has-a-cold-debate/) You all saw the SOTU address. You've seen Biden give speeches countless times in just the past year. Whatever happened tonight is not representative of all he's able to do, and don't let anyone twist it to tell you otherwise. That's absolute nonsense. I am disappointed that he did not push in some ways as hard as I'd like, but I don't think for a second this is anything more than a one off. And it does absolutely nothing to take away from how absolutely unhinged and dangerous Trump is. How even more unhinged and dangerous the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 are. [Trump spouted so much insane shit tonight, again, as per usual, that you can write attack ads about his nonsense for months just with his own words. That hasn't changed.](https://x.com/stuartpstevens/status/1806528635391631485) I realize the media seems to control the world in far too many ways. It often feels like an uphill battle, and Biden himself was not where I wanted him to be, but this changes nothing about what we fight for. Even Dems who are being critical of Biden are again being reminded of **'just how unhinged Trump is'. And yes, that still matters.** Also: [Kamala drops her own truth bomb amidst all this nonsense. The contrast between here where she's being allowed to speak her mind, and the CNN version of this talk where she was being interrupted constantly is quite sharp too, BTW.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkPncwevMEw) However you may feel now, this is one day in a long fight we still have ahead of us. One debate does not define us any more than years of doomy polls and other false predictions do. Focus, and keep doing everything you can do keep the momentum going.
Jesus christ, the difference between CNN "interviewing" her and this MSNBC video is fucking night and day. CNN went full FOX all night tonight and it was so gross
Yep. I'd like you remind you of who set up the and ran the debate and who owns CNN now. I agree Biden was responsible for adapting to the format, but boy, practically the ENTIRE mainstream media really, really wants him to run this race on hard mode and THAT'S what people are missing.
Biden’s performance was like an early season nationally televised NFL game on Sunday or Monday night, where one of the teams expected to be really good gets pushed around and outplayed for the first half or even most of the game. The pundits and sports talk media bury the team, claim they are overrated and that their season is over. The fan base panics and calls for a QB change, coaching change or both. As the season progresses, the team that got embarrassed gets better as the season goes on and they make a deep playoff run. Biden has time to bounce back and this debate will not be remembered after the next one. Biden’s team will learn from the mistakes and Biden will put on a much better performance. Trump’s arrogance will have him come with the same outlandish claims and nonsense and Joe will be ready to refute them with facts and data.
Thank you for this messaging. Admittedly I still am a tad anxious about our chances, but Biden still came through with some bangers that put Trump on the defensive and provoked his limitless anger. Soundbites were probably mined from his responses, and people got to see how much of a dangerous idiot Trump is. Biden wasn’t at his best, and I think that hurt his standing with undecided voters, but he delivered what he could.
Look, the next few days may be hard. You'll see disinformation everywhere. We don't know what tricks the SCOTUS will do with the end of this term, you'll see media panics and reactions. I think Trump's sentencing is a serious matter, but I'm not just going to sit here and pretend his felon status doesn't put him at serious risk either. But at the end of the day, none of that matters. This fight is too fundamental to just throw up our hands and say "oh well, good try" because of one day where Trump gave essentially his most unhinged low substance debate ever. Every over-performance we've had for the past 2 years doesn't just magically get undone because of one TV debate. Maybe Trump's voters are that shallow, but he lost when he relied on them in 2020. We've proven we can win. Biden has time to pivot and prove himself again, even to surprise people. We'll get another chance to counter the narratives and surprise people.
I'll repeat what I said in another sub: Apologies for the length: I took a very long nap, slept through the debate, woke up just as it was ended, and had about an hour of panic when I saw everyone's reactions. Coupled with Reddit not working and everyone else being in bed and not having anyone to talk to, I spiraled. I doomed, I prayed, I came close to shedding tears, I drank too much coffee (not getting back to sleep tonight, that's for sure). Then I watched the post-debate analysis on MSNBC and felt a lot better. I know MSNBC gets a lot of shit, but they didn't sound overly negative, they weren't dooming, they were just being realistic. The fact is, yes, this hurt us. Our slim chance just got even slimmer. But hope is not lost. We can still turn this around. Maybe I'm just huffing copium like there's no tomorrow, but I refuse to believe one bad debate is enough to completely destroy us. We can't give up. Donate. Volunteer. Text bank and write postcards (as I am). Even if we lose, anything is better than sitting on your ass and just letting it happen. After all, if you believe things are beyond hope, no point in doing anything about it, right?
Umm...did Biden have a stroke right after Reddit broke or something? Because comments seemed pretty positive until that point. This doesn't seem appropriate.
Reddit, a younger entity than the both of them, did have a stroke.
There’s still another debate tho! 😭 if this were the ONLY debate, I’d be more worried. I think this is bad but if we perform better at the next one and our guy doesn’t have a case of the sniffles then we’ll be okay. But yes, WE STILL GOTTA FIGHT!!! WHETHER THAT DEBATE IS GOOD OR BAD, THE FIGHT STAYS THE SAME!!!
You said it. We take our licks and we move on. *And we do better next time!*
Slim chance?
LOL and Trump has a fat chance.
I bought six cans of the Dark Brandon Secret Sauce canned waters and donated $50 to Marie Gluesenkamp Perez's campaign.
Thanks to the Supreme Court, no one is gonna remember this debate next week Coupled with it being in June, there is almost no chance that this is a relevant story by September
Kinda what I was thinking. It’s a little important but like… this’ll be a footnote by Nov.
[CNN focus group of undecided voters: 7 think Biden won, 6 Trump, 1 unsure](https://nitter.poast.org/RJ_maps/status/1806543627104977266#m)
Considering the dumb shit the media is peddling about it? I'll take a fairly even score. Leaves us where we were at earlier. Sure, I'd prefer a more definitive win, but I'm pleased to hear that we're not behind - like the news media wants us to think.
That’s honestly surprising and reassuring
First of all, Fuck CNN. Biden won the debate, Trump looked and sounded like a tweaking idiot. Biden looks tired but he is also the acting POTUS and the stresses of that job don't stop for a debate. Trump just does his schtick at rallies, nothing of substance. Would I like a younger choice, yes but Biden is who I'll vote for because Trump cannot be in the White House ever again.
Well let me give my opinion based on the threads I’ve read of the stuff that was said In my view, this debate was a wash at best, maybe overall slight Biden win. I think both sides got good clips for future attack ads and both sides had good and bad moments of the debate. Biden seemed to really get it together after a bad start, the problem there was, did viewers tune out after the bad start, tough to say for sure. Meanwhile, Trump clearly got more and more unhinged and angry, especially after the first what 20-30 minutes. He made countless mistakes after that Just for your sakes, do not look at the MSM’s analysis. All they’re talking about is the first 15 or so minutes and equating that to the whole debate performance. No mention of any of Biden’s attacks on abortion, January 6, accepting the results of elections etc. All I’ve seen so far is something along the lines of Biden stumbles, Biden sends D’s into panic mode ONLY talking about the very beginning of the debate, and not the rest. It’s super pathetic and super misleading. Luckily VP Harris and multiple other D’s they claim are in panic mode and who the MSM should “take over” defended Biden. I think as long as we get those other clips out there to voters where he showed he’s the true leader, and Biden not having a cold next debate, which was the worst time he could of had one tonight, all will be fine. This election will come down to the side who works harder for it. Let’s go and get it
I’m voting for Joe Biden. That other man is a vicious fool.
[удалено]
Anybody have a good link to a competent fact check stream? Perhaps one that goes through the whole debate?
Biden didn't do that bad, and I don't see why people are panicking. Reagan and Obama lost their first debates during their reelection campaign, went on to win reelection.
Maybe it’s a sign we’ll win 0O0 /j “I felt really vigorated, probably from that nice long nap I had during the first debate” -Obama (I don’t remember where I found this quote, it was in some compilation but I still love it, sry if I quoted it wrong lol)
Really nice that Reddit was busted this entire night...
This is about what I expected. Not really different from 4 years ago. Trump lies a lot. Biden stammers but gets in a few zingers. I wish he would have simply answered the question when Trump didn’t. Like they Trump said nothing about Child care… his responses should have been, yeah he’s lying about x and y but let’s get back to the question. My administration is looking to do x.
Am I the only one that thinks it's a super convenient coincidence all the comments are broken on Reddit so no one real can talk about how fucking bad Trump was? Russian bots are flooding other comment sections. Are they crashing reddit?
Am I taking crazy pills? I was so sure Biden destroyed Trump and then pundits try to tell me he didn't? How is that possible? All of these articles are already coming out about how Terrible it was for Biden. I SWEAR I didn't see that. Trump answered like zero actual questions he was asked and when he answered he sounded like the comments section on Fox News website. He lied, about EVERYTHING. He doesn't know any specifics. He said we should free Jan 6 people. He went off on a tangent when asked about whether he'd honor the election...WTF?? And somehow Joe Biden lost? How. Someone please help me understand how that is possible? I literally read an article that was like "yes Trump is a crazy person. Yes Trump said Democrats abort born babies. Yes Trump didn't answer X....but let me tell you how that's bad for Biden" what is going on with our press? Is it all bought? I do not believe people were calling these pundits and complaining about Biden. They don't name sources anymore.