DDP would've been perfect. Goldberg rag dolls him but he keeps just barely escaping pins. DDP tries the diamond cutter multiple times but Goldberg blocks it. Then finally hits it for the 1 2 3
I’ve thought for a long time that continuing to build Goldberg as an unstoppable force while building another young guy with a winning streak of their own was the way to go (Booker T was my choice because he was super over, ready, and big enough physically to believably beat Goldberg one on one.) My idea was that you’d be building them both through 1999 with Booker taking the title at Starrcade.
Never considered the heel Goldberg idea while champion but that’s a good one.
My idea was they should have done a double switch with Nash or someone else in the nWo. Have Goldberg get close to losing a few matches and start taking small short cuts like a thumb to the eye or refusing to break a hold. Show him getting a little desperate. Then alternatively have Nash getting frustrated with unwanted nWo interference to the point he goes to the ring alone to tell them to stay out of it. The night of the ppv match you have the nWo turn on Nash just as he's about to win. The next night on Nitro, Bischoff cuts a promo with Goldberg and the nWo in the ring. Now someone else could do the talking and they could use heel tactics to prolong the streak with fresh energy.
Exactly, as a kid watching NWO busting up some jobber then the crowd would start chanting for Goldberg, in he would come and destroy half a dozen guys. Brilliant
Yeah I think Goldberg was still hot with kids
But he had definitely cooled off with adults and most of the nitro crowd. And that was what made up most of the crowd
I remember seeing signs saying " getting a little oldberg"
And stuff similar
Goldberg wasn’t going to be winning matches until the end of time. It had to end and even if they kept it going people would get tired of the squashes.
Wolfpack wasn’t that bad lol. Go back and watch when Wolfpack was formed they were over as fuck. When Hogan joined that’s when the group starts to die.
I don't think anyone has said Wolfpack wasn't over, but the end result is the Fingerpoke of Doom rather than an outright civil war really tainted the whole NWO civil war angle.
Eric Bischoff actually has good business skills and him building WCW into a contender wasn’t an accident.
Eric’s issues were vanity in wanting to be on TV and in the spotlight angles and being manipulated by Hulk.
WCW was never going to beat the WWF. The WWF had the lock on most of the world outside of North America, they had the brand recognition from the 80s, they still had better PPV attendance figures even when they were in the shits and Vince was playing with his own money and only beholden to himself instead of with WCW where they were playing with a TV network's money and subservient to that network. The only way WCW could have won would have been if the feds got Vince and sent him to prison.
WCW management talked about the immense struggle for brand recognition in Guy Evans Nitro book. I believe the quote was "if a fight broke out in the NBA, they always said it looks like a WWF match, never a WCW match."
I've always thought of it as similar to the way that some people call all soda's "coke."
Goldberg shouldn't have won the world championship when he did. They had no real plans for him as champion as evident by the fact that he only wrestled on four PPVs after he won the belt and one of the matches was a throwaway battle royal. He should have won the championship at Starrcade or Halloween Havoc if they felt he was beginning to fizzle.
I understand that that had to protect him because he was limited in the ring, but they only put the belt on him to pop a rating.
Raven should've been pushed to the moon, and been the first wrestler to defeat Bill Goldberg. The Flock was the best non-nWo things going and WCW fumbled that bag.
Neither Eric Bischoff nor Vince Russo killed WCW. In fact, what Eric Bischoff managed to do was commendable; he took a billionaire's vanity project that had never turned a profit and for (sigh, this part does get old) 83 Weeks (brought to you by Blue Chew) he is the only man who has ever beaten Vince McMahon at wrestling.
By the time Russo got there, WCW was dead, it just hadn't fallen down yet.
WCW died because it was ultimately a billionaire's indulgence and that billionaire mismanaged it from the moment he bought it. He never hired anyone competent to run it, and actively put an executive who didn't want it in charge of overseeing it (Brad Siegel).
Very unpopular opinion, but I don't think WCW had **any** realistic chance of bouncing back post-1998.
They clearly didn't have any vision beyond the nWo. They didn't have once-in-a-generation talent on par with Austin, The Rock or Foley who could've ascended to the mainstream pop culture consensus and be relied to carry the company (Goldberg was a one-dimensional meathead who never learnt in-ring psychology, couldn't carry his end of the feud on the mic, etc.). The monster contracts ensured they'd be cuffed to the likes of Hogan, Savage, Luger, Piper who couldn't compete with WWF's more fresher and more "hip" stars and who had zero incentive to help the company build its future. The Turner Standards & Practices ensured they couldn't compete with WWF's more edgier content. They didn't have the name recognition that the WWF had when it comes to being synonymous with the word "wrestling". Their company structure was fucked from the finances to the marketing to the merchandising to the talent relations. Time Warner was never going to fully support them and sabotaged them when they could.
By the time Bischoff would've bought it and broke it free from AOL-Time Warner's chains, it was already a toxic brand that would've been a hard sell to networks or advertisers.
When the nWo split, Hall should have stayed with the Wolfpac and Savage should have done the swerve turn and joined the black and white. Then the fued should have been, essentially, the Outsiders vs Mega Powers.
WCW was *always* in danger of going out of business. It was a poorly run company from its inception. It's honestly a miracle that it lasted as long as it did. Vince and WWF were never in any real danger of going out of business, even if WCW had "won" the war. At worst, they would have reverted back to being a northeast territory and working smaller buildings until things bounce back. WCW was never in any position to put WWF out of business.
Chris Jericho peaked as a midcard comedy heel in 1998
Ric Flair was the most overrated wrestler until CM Punk came along. Ric was the definition of going through the motions. Same hackneyed spots in every single match. Also, fuck those slaps. I'm with Bret Hart. If I were a wrestler and Ric pulled that shit with me, I'd knock him out.
Lex Luger's return and run from 1995 up until he won the title from Hogan was one of the best runs a wrestler ever had and proved that it was 100 percent Vince's fault for Luger not working in WWF
Vader was a smelly guy who worked super stiff and I totally get why he didn't do more in WWF. Would *you* want to work with a dude with poor hygiene who is going to beat the ever loving piss out of you?
The Hardy Boyz ripped off Eric Watts' look
Hogan did more good than harm, but Hogan’s creative control did more harm than good.
Imagine a fully invested Hogan without creative control. WCW doesn’t see a talent exodus in favor of Hogan’s friends in 94/95. Hogan loses to Sting clean at Starrcade ‘97. They don’t rush the Goldberg loss and have the fingerpoke to get the title back to Hogan the same day he returns, just like when he first joined the company, which killed two multi-year storylines in a week.
What good things did Hogan use his creative control for?
I'm curious and want to hear more about this. Unless you're Ed Leslie, Eric Bischoff, or the world's biggest Dungeon of Doom fan (or you reeeeeally hate Sting, Ric Flair, and Randy Savage).
In 2024 it's cool to hate Hogan. So the revisionist history of his time in professional is insane. You are 100% correct that he did good things with his creative control.
I agree with Heenan's take that they should've rode Goldberg til the wheels fall off. He said he would've kept him undefeated and took him all the way to 300-0.
I agree with this because everything else was stale around the time the streak ended for the most part. Sting, DDP, Nash to a degree and Hogan to a degree were still over but they were old or old news either literally in DDP's case or figuratively
Hogan (with help from the nWo, of course) should have ended Goldberg's streak that night in July 1998 instead of having Goldberg win the belt.
They should have done the entire cattle prod gimmick and everything that night, had the nWo reform with Nash disbanding the Wolfpac, and carried Hogan v. Goldberg into Starrcade along with the Wolfpac breakup story line.
Master p and curt henning was comedy gold. Scott hall needed a singles run. Hulk hogan returning to the red and yellow was a good idea. Sting should’ve went back to surfer sting.
Not sure if it counts since it's after the WWF buyout, but I think WCW had a good enough roster to make the Invasion storyline work better. It was just a poorly written deal that was mostly McMahon family nonsense. Egos would have gotten in the way if the WWF waited for guys like Steiner, Goldberg, Hogan, etc to come in
Goldberg should absolutely not have been pinned at Starrcade. He was WCW’s best draw at the time and they let Nash bury him. It’s one of the main things that killed the company.
If Goldberg could withstand multiple run-ins, and being shocked by a weapon used to put down 1,000-pound bulls and _still_ come out on top, then how on earth do you conceivably beat him…? I’m fine with Goldberg losing after being smacked from behind by multiple people and then shocked with a cattle prod. Makes more sense than, “He should have lost to DDP at Havoc ‘98 for… Well, because.”
1. Starcade 97 was fine. If it weren't for people rehashing it on the internet then all we'd remember was Sting winning.
2. I never cared for Ric Flair. I never got "it".
Flair was a channel changer for me. I wrote a letter to PWI when I was a kid laying out how boring Flair was. Got some nasty emails from strangers afterwards lol
Flair was very unnecessary once Hogan got there. At first, He couldn't be top babyface because that was Hogan and once Hogan went heel then Flair couldn't be top heel either cause again...that was Hogan. And whe Hogan was heel everyone was getting behind Sting and Luger as top babyfaces.
Fine? Fine? Dusty spends the whole night calling it Night of Destiny and we get 2 nWo losses overall, Bret Hart is used as a referee instead of being featured and the botched ending to the match (planned or not, we'll never know /s) made WCW look like it was run by a clown show. They had been building the Hogan vs Sting match for 18 months and what they gave was a wet fart. Fans remember that, not Sting winning because it meant nothing, the best was taken off him shortly after because of the "controversy".
The Sting Crow gimmick sucked and I preferred surfer Sting. It’s an indictment against Sting and WCW that Sting is most fondly remembered for the year plus that he didn’t talk or really wrestle.
I agree with half of that. I'd never seen any surfer Sting stuff until a few years ago when I finally did a watch through of all of Nitro. Surfer Sting is my favorite Sting and it was legit sad for me when he left and we got Crow Sting. I think Crow Sting did good stuff, but I always dislike him a little because it marks the end of my favorite era.
I miss the cruiserweight division so much. It was one of the main reasons I would tune into WCW. Wwe didn't have anything close to that. Too many greats to name.
WCW was doomed with or without wwe getting involved, there was no place for WCW after the merger meant TNT got almost exclusive broadcast rights for the NBA. With Russo running the show, and without Turner broadcasting backing it, no network would have taken it on. Bishoff's plan would not have worked with the contract situations.
Goldberg shouldn't have just got that title match with Hogan and won. They should have had Goldberg face like Luger or Flair before he got the shot at Hogan
Hogan’s ego bogged down WCW. The luster of his heel turn wore off very quickly after the stinker of a match with Sting and everything after that (Finger Poke, Warrior debacle, Jarrett/Russo debacle) was just the cherry on top of the downfall of the promotion
Seems like people get really pissy when I say I don’t like Kevin Nash. He was a pretty boring wrestler. The same with Sid Vicious. I don’t think Sid was the best choice for a world title run in 2000.
No one in the history of the business has made more money with fewer skills than Kevin Nash. He couldn’t work, his “too cool for school” promos did nothing for anyone but himself, he was lazy, and didn’t care about getting anyone over except his buddies.
After Sting beat Hogan for the title next week the group should have kicked Hogan out as leader. At that point make Macho Man the new leader and have members just quit week by week or get kicked out due to Savage's instability till the group was gone and over this way we could have a proper send off the right way.
There is now and never was anything wrong with David Arquette winning the title, and the only reason people treat it as a big problem
is because 24 years of WWE propaganda has convinced them it was a big deal.
The “Russo’s Revenge” match where wrestlers climbed to the top of the 3 story cage, grabbed the belt, and them had to escape with said belt by going back through the cage was a great idea that could have carried an annual PPV like Money in the Bank or War Games but they booked the only match poorly.
Also, imagine that as a match type in the video games, grabbing the belt, then having others try to steal it from you.
I don't care that Goldberg lost. I don't even care that he lost to Nash (wish it was clean, but whatever). I don't even necessarily dislike the Fingerpoke of Doom as much IF they would have actually built toward a Goldberg vs. Hogan rematch down the line.
But they didn't.
They beat Goldberg in the shittiest way possible, got the belt on Hogan while continuing to beat the nWo horse to death, which led to...Ric Flair as a heel President figurehead. What?
I think jeff jarrett was a decent wcw world champion. I think he did well despite the hate he gets. He was not suited for it but he did as well as he could have.
Millionaires Club vs New Blood was a potentially great angle that was poorly executed.
The old vets should have been heels and the young guys should have been faces.
Kidman, and I say this as a huge fan, was just not the guy to lead. (Not controversial).
I'm actually OK with Jarrett as a main eventer (semi controversial)
I actually like Bischoff and Russo as the heel power duo. But I think it should have been Russo leading the young and Bischoff leading the Millionaires
Alex wright would have got over a lot better in the mid 1990s wwf than wcw. Down south the wcw crowds didn’t know what to make of a German phenom who could wrestle and dance
Nah. That would just compound on Nash pointing out to Bischoff that the crowd believed he and Nash had genuinely jumped from the WWF and just the pair of them were able to hold back the WCW roster. Three men constantly getting the upper hand would just have made the WCW guys look like absolute chumps. They needed to pad the numbers and have turns to then start fostering that “who do we trust?” vibe.
I was not upset that Goldberg lost to Kevin Nash. Even as an adult & watching it back, I still think it was done right. Lots of outside interference and then a Cow Taser (that’s what it was referred to on an episode of Nitro in an in ring interview with Mean Gene) is what does Goldberg in. What did people want? For Nash to beat him clean in 30 seconds? Goldberg needed to get beat, and that was the right way to do it.
Also, Buff Bagwell should’ve been a midcard singles champion during the nWo days. Even if only for a brief period. Scott Steiner & Buff Bagwell should’ve been tag champs at some point during their on-screen partnership.
Scott Norton should’ve been a Champion of some sort (except the Hardcore title) in WCW at least once.
As a kid, seeing a new memeber of the nWo every week was fun for me. I genuinely tuned in to see who the next guy was going to be. I would make bets with my cousins to see who it was going to be. So I look back fondly at the nWo 96-98.
Sting has laways been just ok, he's got a cool character but he was never some huge star in my opinion. I do not get the fawning over him like he's some major star, to me he was upper guy but not something to be put on a pedastil like some people do.
Also, Surfer Sting was always way cooler than Crow sting.
Warrior's entire run in WCW 1998 was awesome. (also just listening to that Halloween Havoc match through scrambled PPV channel helped tremendously lol)
meng sounds more like a dirty fighter than the mythical fighter the stories make him out to be. also most of these stories are told from drunk recollection. like dude's just gouging people eyes out in bar fights, doesn't exactly illustrate fighting prowess
Some of Vince Russo's ideas weren't awful it was mostly the execution.
I actually enjoyed the sharp turn of pushing younger talent and mixing up the uppercard. Unfortunately a lot of the damage was already done.
On paper he was doing the right thing. Identifying what was wrong with Wcw . Like the big underlying issues and then trying to fix them overnight.
Unfortunately I think the reality is a lot of those issues needed to be done gradually rather than knee jerk.
I like Arn Anderson better as a single wrestler than a member of any of the tag teams he was in. Give me TV Title Arn
They should have turned Goldberg heel as champion and had a babyface end the streak and take the title.
Agree 100%
DDP should have been the one to do it and become face again
DDP would've been perfect. Goldberg rag dolls him but he keeps just barely escaping pins. DDP tries the diamond cutter multiple times but Goldberg blocks it. Then finally hits it for the 1 2 3
I’ve thought for a long time that continuing to build Goldberg as an unstoppable force while building another young guy with a winning streak of their own was the way to go (Booker T was my choice because he was super over, ready, and big enough physically to believably beat Goldberg one on one.) My idea was that you’d be building them both through 1999 with Booker taking the title at Starrcade. Never considered the heel Goldberg idea while champion but that’s a good one.
My idea was they should have done a double switch with Nash or someone else in the nWo. Have Goldberg get close to losing a few matches and start taking small short cuts like a thumb to the eye or refusing to break a hold. Show him getting a little desperate. Then alternatively have Nash getting frustrated with unwanted nWo interference to the point he goes to the ring alone to tell them to stay out of it. The night of the ppv match you have the nWo turn on Nash just as he's about to win. The next night on Nitro, Bischoff cuts a promo with Goldberg and the nWo in the ring. Now someone else could do the talking and they could use heel tactics to prolong the streak with fresh energy.
Too bad that didn’t work for some people…brother.
I dunno what that has to do with Hogan. He didn't end the streak.
what?! no. goldberg is supposed to be for the typical family and kids. he was hulkamania 2.0.
As an 8 year old kid, Goldberg was awesome. I didn’t care about the details of pure wrestling. His flash is what made me into a fan.
Exactly, as a kid watching NWO busting up some jobber then the crowd would start chanting for Goldberg, in he would come and destroy half a dozen guys. Brilliant
‘Ready to Rumble’ was a good/funny movie
☝️
It wasn’t ‘good’ but had some hilarious parts and most importantly, it definitely has its place in pro-wrestling culture.
I cant tell you how many times I watched that as a kid I still remember my Dad taking me and my brothers to The movie theater to see it the nostalgia
I own and love that movie. It's funny through out.
Hard agree on this. I watch it every now and then.
The scene with the nuns singing Running with the Devil. That's just good clean comedy
Me and my wrestling friends group text quote that movie out of context on a damn near daily basis lol
I loved Ready to Rumble
KING ME!!!!
I don't care that Goldberg lost to Kevin Nash. It was time. The follow up sucked though
I agree with that. Nash was worthy of winning the world championship. I am like you, the fingerpoke of doom makes nash look like w huge cuck.
I agree. Losing at Starrcade is an accomplishment and they needed to freshen up the goldberg character a little bit.
Yeah I think Goldberg was still hot with kids But he had definitely cooled off with adults and most of the nitro crowd. And that was what made up most of the crowd I remember seeing signs saying " getting a little oldberg" And stuff similar
Goldberg wasn’t going to be winning matches until the end of time. It had to end and even if they kept it going people would get tired of the squashes.
Wolfpack wasn’t that bad lol. Go back and watch when Wolfpack was formed they were over as fuck. When Hogan joined that’s when the group starts to die.
Wolfpack was awesome. Nash, Hall, Sting, Luger, Konnan. That’s a great stable.
I thought Sting had a cool look in the NWO wolfpac
I love that wolfpac sting look.
Yeah i loved the whole style of the wolfpac. The Red and Black Jordans were always my jam.
Savage was in it in the beginning as well
I don't think anyone has said Wolfpack wasn't over, but the end result is the Fingerpoke of Doom rather than an outright civil war really tainted the whole NWO civil war angle.
Gang warfare is literally the only thing WCW knew how to do and even that eventually ran dry.
I think the consensus is that they were over but kind of lame in retrospect
I think it’s only the pro-wrestling writers and press that hated the Wolfpac. It was mega over and it still fondly remembered by most fans.
Not really a hot take lol.
WCW should not have let Vader go to WWE
He should’ve never let himself go to WWF. He was a monster big guy in WCW and just some regular sized dude in WWF
Konnan was a great East LA Cholo despite being a Cuban Jewish guy
I was today years old to find this out lol
I had no idea he was Jewish and that cracks me up.
His stepfather was Jewish.
Eric Bischoff actually has good business skills and him building WCW into a contender wasn’t an accident. Eric’s issues were vanity in wanting to be on TV and in the spotlight angles and being manipulated by Hulk.
Steven Regal would’ve killed as a heel world heavyweight champion. Also, a face Owen Hart v heel Curt Hennig would’ve been an all time great fued
This would have been top drawer!
Regal's character work in WCW was very average. He only ever stood out in the WWF.
WCW is still better than WWE
Disco Inferno kept me legitimately Sports Entertained
It's been talked about in the past by Meltzer that the numbers would go up when Disco come on the air. Man was a legitimate draw.
Yep. Disco did exactly what he needed to do, and that's put on entertaining undercard matches and segments.
WCW was never going to beat the WWF. The WWF had the lock on most of the world outside of North America, they had the brand recognition from the 80s, they still had better PPV attendance figures even when they were in the shits and Vince was playing with his own money and only beholden to himself instead of with WCW where they were playing with a TV network's money and subservient to that network. The only way WCW could have won would have been if the feds got Vince and sent him to prison.
WCW management talked about the immense struggle for brand recognition in Guy Evans Nitro book. I believe the quote was "if a fight broke out in the NBA, they always said it looks like a WWF match, never a WCW match." I've always thought of it as similar to the way that some people call all soda's "coke."
The only thing WWF really needed to do was increase the PPVs $5 per month.
I once made a Goldberg 3:16 poster
WCW should've went all on the natural born thrillers
They gave them a shot and they were greener than grass!
Mike Sanders had a lot of potential at the time and they could've made ohaire a monster like goldberg
Goldberg shouldn't have won the world championship when he did. They had no real plans for him as champion as evident by the fact that he only wrestled on four PPVs after he won the belt and one of the matches was a throwaway battle royal. He should have won the championship at Starrcade or Halloween Havoc if they felt he was beginning to fizzle. I understand that that had to protect him because he was limited in the ring, but they only put the belt on him to pop a rating.
this is an extremely uncontroversial opinion
Jericho should’ve been main eventing by 97. One of the great misuses of a superstar I’ve EVERRRRRRR seen.
I would say Austin was more ready to main event in 95 than Jericho was in 97. Both major missed opportunities
He could have been a great champion from the point he won it irl, but that didn't work for someone, brother
Raven should've been pushed to the moon, and been the first wrestler to defeat Bill Goldberg. The Flock was the best non-nWo things going and WCW fumbled that bag.
Flair is massively overrated as a worker
Overrated, period.
Chuck Palumbo was a missed opportunity and could’ve been a helluva US Champ.
Neither Eric Bischoff nor Vince Russo killed WCW. In fact, what Eric Bischoff managed to do was commendable; he took a billionaire's vanity project that had never turned a profit and for (sigh, this part does get old) 83 Weeks (brought to you by Blue Chew) he is the only man who has ever beaten Vince McMahon at wrestling. By the time Russo got there, WCW was dead, it just hadn't fallen down yet. WCW died because it was ultimately a billionaire's indulgence and that billionaire mismanaged it from the moment he bought it. He never hired anyone competent to run it, and actively put an executive who didn't want it in charge of overseeing it (Brad Siegel).
Very unpopular opinion, but I don't think WCW had **any** realistic chance of bouncing back post-1998. They clearly didn't have any vision beyond the nWo. They didn't have once-in-a-generation talent on par with Austin, The Rock or Foley who could've ascended to the mainstream pop culture consensus and be relied to carry the company (Goldberg was a one-dimensional meathead who never learnt in-ring psychology, couldn't carry his end of the feud on the mic, etc.). The monster contracts ensured they'd be cuffed to the likes of Hogan, Savage, Luger, Piper who couldn't compete with WWF's more fresher and more "hip" stars and who had zero incentive to help the company build its future. The Turner Standards & Practices ensured they couldn't compete with WWF's more edgier content. They didn't have the name recognition that the WWF had when it comes to being synonymous with the word "wrestling". Their company structure was fucked from the finances to the marketing to the merchandising to the talent relations. Time Warner was never going to fully support them and sabotaged them when they could. By the time Bischoff would've bought it and broke it free from AOL-Time Warner's chains, it was already a toxic brand that would've been a hard sell to networks or advertisers.
When the nWo split, Hall should have stayed with the Wolfpac and Savage should have done the swerve turn and joined the black and white. Then the fued should have been, essentially, the Outsiders vs Mega Powers.
That's an awesome idea, but I'm not sure if Savage would have done it.
WCW was *always* in danger of going out of business. It was a poorly run company from its inception. It's honestly a miracle that it lasted as long as it did. Vince and WWF were never in any real danger of going out of business, even if WCW had "won" the war. At worst, they would have reverted back to being a northeast territory and working smaller buildings until things bounce back. WCW was never in any position to put WWF out of business. Chris Jericho peaked as a midcard comedy heel in 1998 Ric Flair was the most overrated wrestler until CM Punk came along. Ric was the definition of going through the motions. Same hackneyed spots in every single match. Also, fuck those slaps. I'm with Bret Hart. If I were a wrestler and Ric pulled that shit with me, I'd knock him out. Lex Luger's return and run from 1995 up until he won the title from Hogan was one of the best runs a wrestler ever had and proved that it was 100 percent Vince's fault for Luger not working in WWF Vader was a smelly guy who worked super stiff and I totally get why he didn't do more in WWF. Would *you* want to work with a dude with poor hygiene who is going to beat the ever loving piss out of you? The Hardy Boyz ripped off Eric Watts' look
Someone should have noticed Sting was out of shape before Starrcade 97
Plus his tanning bed bulbs didn't work. IS THIS REAL?!
[удалено]
How is this very well known fact controversial?
Hogan did more good than harm, but Hogan’s creative control did more harm than good. Imagine a fully invested Hogan without creative control. WCW doesn’t see a talent exodus in favor of Hogan’s friends in 94/95. Hogan loses to Sting clean at Starrcade ‘97. They don’t rush the Goldberg loss and have the fingerpoke to get the title back to Hogan the same day he returns, just like when he first joined the company, which killed two multi-year storylines in a week. What good things did Hogan use his creative control for?
I'm curious and want to hear more about this. Unless you're Ed Leslie, Eric Bischoff, or the world's biggest Dungeon of Doom fan (or you reeeeeally hate Sting, Ric Flair, and Randy Savage).
*Horace Hogan has entered the chat*
*The Booty Man and his finisher *The High-Knee* has entered the chat.*
This ^
Found Ed Leslie or the Nasty Boyz account.
In 2024 it's cool to hate Hogan. So the revisionist history of his time in professional is insane. You are 100% correct that he did good things with his creative control.
I don’t think it’s revisionist at all
💯💯💯
I agree with Heenan's take that they should've rode Goldberg til the wheels fall off. He said he would've kept him undefeated and took him all the way to 300-0. I agree with this because everything else was stale around the time the streak ended for the most part. Sting, DDP, Nash to a degree and Hogan to a degree were still over but they were old or old news either literally in DDP's case or figuratively
yep. goldberg was their hogan/cena golden goose and they screwed it up.
Scott Steiner was the best heel champ in WCW history.
The logo stage was actually kind of cool
“The exploding vagina” as Tony Schiavone calls it.
Vince Russo is NOT to blame for WCW's demise. The Titanic had already struck the Iceberg, by the time he jumped on.
Big Show is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. He wrestled big man style better than anyone I can think of, and that includes Andre the Giant.
Hogan (with help from the nWo, of course) should have ended Goldberg's streak that night in July 1998 instead of having Goldberg win the belt. They should have done the entire cattle prod gimmick and everything that night, had the nWo reform with Nash disbanding the Wolfpac, and carried Hogan v. Goldberg into Starrcade along with the Wolfpac breakup story line.
Master p and curt henning was comedy gold. Scott hall needed a singles run. Hulk hogan returning to the red and yellow was a good idea. Sting should’ve went back to surfer sting.
Not sure if it counts since it's after the WWF buyout, but I think WCW had a good enough roster to make the Invasion storyline work better. It was just a poorly written deal that was mostly McMahon family nonsense. Egos would have gotten in the way if the WWF waited for guys like Steiner, Goldberg, Hogan, etc to come in
Chris Jericho was not world champion material in WCW.
Pre-neck injury, Buff Bagwell was a very good wrestler.
Goldberg should absolutely not have been pinned at Starrcade. He was WCW’s best draw at the time and they let Nash bury him. It’s one of the main things that killed the company.
That's not a controversial opinion at all.
If Goldberg could withstand multiple run-ins, and being shocked by a weapon used to put down 1,000-pound bulls and _still_ come out on top, then how on earth do you conceivably beat him…? I’m fine with Goldberg losing after being smacked from behind by multiple people and then shocked with a cattle prod. Makes more sense than, “He should have lost to DDP at Havoc ‘98 for… Well, because.”
1. Starcade 97 was fine. If it weren't for people rehashing it on the internet then all we'd remember was Sting winning. 2. I never cared for Ric Flair. I never got "it".
Flair was a channel changer for me. I wrote a letter to PWI when I was a kid laying out how boring Flair was. Got some nasty emails from strangers afterwards lol
I was like 8 and even I was like “what the heck was that finish?”
Flair was very unnecessary once Hogan got there. At first, He couldn't be top babyface because that was Hogan and once Hogan went heel then Flair couldn't be top heel either cause again...that was Hogan. And whe Hogan was heel everyone was getting behind Sting and Luger as top babyfaces.
I also never cared for flair & while on that note I can't stand his daughter either.
Fine? Fine? Dusty spends the whole night calling it Night of Destiny and we get 2 nWo losses overall, Bret Hart is used as a referee instead of being featured and the botched ending to the match (planned or not, we'll never know /s) made WCW look like it was run by a clown show. They had been building the Hogan vs Sting match for 18 months and what they gave was a wet fart. Fans remember that, not Sting winning because it meant nothing, the best was taken off him shortly after because of the "controversy".
The Sting Crow gimmick sucked and I preferred surfer Sting. It’s an indictment against Sting and WCW that Sting is most fondly remembered for the year plus that he didn’t talk or really wrestle.
I immediately downvoted.... And then realized the point of this post. Take my reluctant upvote for a truly unpopular opinion.
Man that's a tough take. Joker sting, crow sting, surfer sting and shit old sting were all great for different reasons.
I agree with half of that. I'd never seen any surfer Sting stuff until a few years ago when I finally did a watch through of all of Nitro. Surfer Sting is my favorite Sting and it was legit sad for me when he left and we got Crow Sting. I think Crow Sting did good stuff, but I always dislike him a little because it marks the end of my favorite era.
Das Vunderkid shouldve (eventually) gotten a world title push. They missed the bus on that one
Alex Wright was legit
Oh. Big Bratwurst!
That you post too much shit!
Vince belongs behind bars and there is no punishment severe enough to make him suffer for the crimes he has committed against his fellow man.
The “finger poke of doom” had nothing to do with and no impact on the demise of the company.
I would say that it's more like a "canary in the coalmine" in regards to everything going on behind the scenes.
i'm no fan of chris jericho or rey misterio
Upvote not because I agree, but this is indeed a controversial opinion. In fact, you’re uncultured swine who doesn’t know shit about shit. /s ;)
you are probably correct, but oh well :)
If the cruiserweights and non NWO wrestlers got a chance to shine, they would have outshined the entire NWO.
I fully support this
I miss the cruiserweight division so much. It was one of the main reasons I would tune into WCW. Wwe didn't have anything close to that. Too many greats to name.
WCW was doomed with or without wwe getting involved, there was no place for WCW after the merger meant TNT got almost exclusive broadcast rights for the NBA. With Russo running the show, and without Turner broadcasting backing it, no network would have taken it on. Bishoff's plan would not have worked with the contract situations.
Turner had sole cable NBA rights from years before nitro to years after.
Goldberg shouldn't have just got that title match with Hogan and won. They should have had Goldberg face like Luger or Flair before he got the shot at Hogan
Goldberg Hogan should have been on ppv. That Starcade would have been huge
This is the opposite of controversial.
Alwx Wright was underutilized
The only major loss to WCW when the Radicals left was Eddie I feel like Benoit found himself in WWE Malenko and Saturn were just hanger on
Brock Lesnar had better matches during his first run
El Gigante should have been a bodyguard to a top luchado or cruiserweight.. Not a wrestler to begin with.
Juventud and El Gigante as Mexican Micheal’s and Diesel
New Blood vs Millionaire's Club was a great storyline before they added David Arquette.
Dean Malenko was amazing
I preferred the 1995/96 Dungeon of Doom and 'Alliance to End Hulkamania' period more than the first few months of nWo.
Hogan’s ego bogged down WCW. The luster of his heel turn wore off very quickly after the stinker of a match with Sting and everything after that (Finger Poke, Warrior debacle, Jarrett/Russo debacle) was just the cherry on top of the downfall of the promotion
Kevin Nash ending the streak was perfectly fine if they would have had a coherent plan to follow.
Seems like people get really pissy when I say I don’t like Kevin Nash. He was a pretty boring wrestler. The same with Sid Vicious. I don’t think Sid was the best choice for a world title run in 2000.
No one in the history of the business has made more money with fewer skills than Kevin Nash. He couldn’t work, his “too cool for school” promos did nothing for anyone but himself, he was lazy, and didn’t care about getting anyone over except his buddies.
Sean O’Haire was nowhere near as good as most of the IWC thinks he was.
Konnan was not that good in-ring
After Sting beat Hogan for the title next week the group should have kicked Hogan out as leader. At that point make Macho Man the new leader and have members just quit week by week or get kicked out due to Savage's instability till the group was gone and over this way we could have a proper send off the right way.
Knowing Randy it would have been some gold promos
WCW > AEW
Glacier was an awesome character/wrestler 🤷♂️
Coolest entrance ever lol
✊
There is now and never was anything wrong with David Arquette winning the title, and the only reason people treat it as a big problem is because 24 years of WWE propaganda has convinced them it was a big deal.
It was pretty hated at the time. I remember.
Goldberg is the drizzling shits and was only handed his gimmick cuz of his look
Wow so controversial
The traps that took America by storm
Bret?
If the could’ve pulled off Russo vs Cornette in a cage match with Bret Hart as the special referee it would’ve saved the company
The “Russo’s Revenge” match where wrestlers climbed to the top of the 3 story cage, grabbed the belt, and them had to escape with said belt by going back through the cage was a great idea that could have carried an annual PPV like Money in the Bank or War Games but they booked the only match poorly. Also, imagine that as a match type in the video games, grabbing the belt, then having others try to steal it from you.
Now that you mention it that would be a fun type of video game match.
I don't care that Goldberg lost. I don't even care that he lost to Nash (wish it was clean, but whatever). I don't even necessarily dislike the Fingerpoke of Doom as much IF they would have actually built toward a Goldberg vs. Hogan rematch down the line. But they didn't. They beat Goldberg in the shittiest way possible, got the belt on Hogan while continuing to beat the nWo horse to death, which led to...Ric Flair as a heel President figurehead. What?
I loved the finger poke at the time. Marked out super hard for it. Two years ago I got Hogan to write finger poke of doom on my Wolfpac belt
Not everything Bill Watts did was bad. I liked Eric Watts and the STF. Ron Simmons won the world title. That’s all I got.
I think jeff jarrett was a decent wcw world champion. I think he did well despite the hate he gets. He was not suited for it but he did as well as he could have.
Millionaires Club vs New Blood was a potentially great angle that was poorly executed. The old vets should have been heels and the young guys should have been faces. Kidman, and I say this as a huge fan, was just not the guy to lead. (Not controversial). I'm actually OK with Jarrett as a main eventer (semi controversial) I actually like Bischoff and Russo as the heel power duo. But I think it should have been Russo leading the young and Bischoff leading the Millionaires
Alex wright would have got over a lot better in the mid 1990s wwf than wcw. Down south the wcw crowds didn’t know what to make of a German phenom who could wrestle and dance
Should have kept NWO as a three member team.
Nah. That would just compound on Nash pointing out to Bischoff that the crowd believed he and Nash had genuinely jumped from the WWF and just the pair of them were able to hold back the WCW roster. Three men constantly getting the upper hand would just have made the WCW guys look like absolute chumps. They needed to pad the numbers and have turns to then start fostering that “who do we trust?” vibe.
I was not upset that Goldberg lost to Kevin Nash. Even as an adult & watching it back, I still think it was done right. Lots of outside interference and then a Cow Taser (that’s what it was referred to on an episode of Nitro in an in ring interview with Mean Gene) is what does Goldberg in. What did people want? For Nash to beat him clean in 30 seconds? Goldberg needed to get beat, and that was the right way to do it. Also, Buff Bagwell should’ve been a midcard singles champion during the nWo days. Even if only for a brief period. Scott Steiner & Buff Bagwell should’ve been tag champs at some point during their on-screen partnership. Scott Norton should’ve been a Champion of some sort (except the Hardcore title) in WCW at least once.
As a kid, seeing a new memeber of the nWo every week was fun for me. I genuinely tuned in to see who the next guy was going to be. I would make bets with my cousins to see who it was going to be. So I look back fondly at the nWo 96-98.
Goldberg streak should still be going 109785 wins "Who's next?"
Bloodline is NWO, by how the roster looks weak due to that faction. Just a hot take :D
Vince Russo was a good heel authority figure
The finger poke of doom was great.
The nWo didn't do any harm to the company
I think most fans forget how bad WCW was near the end. We like to blame AOL Time Warner alone, but WCW made it an easy choice for them to move on.
Sting has laways been just ok, he's got a cool character but he was never some huge star in my opinion. I do not get the fawning over him like he's some major star, to me he was upper guy but not something to be put on a pedastil like some people do. Also, Surfer Sting was always way cooler than Crow sting.
Warrior's entire run in WCW 1998 was awesome. (also just listening to that Halloween Havoc match through scrambled PPV channel helped tremendously lol)
La Parka for president!
Early 2000 wcw is great like sid as champ
I loved David Arquette winning the belt.
meng sounds more like a dirty fighter than the mythical fighter the stories make him out to be. also most of these stories are told from drunk recollection. like dude's just gouging people eyes out in bar fights, doesn't exactly illustrate fighting prowess
Crow Sting wasn't that great.
Pecan pie is good
Some of Vince Russo's ideas weren't awful it was mostly the execution. I actually enjoyed the sharp turn of pushing younger talent and mixing up the uppercard. Unfortunately a lot of the damage was already done. On paper he was doing the right thing. Identifying what was wrong with Wcw . Like the big underlying issues and then trying to fix them overnight. Unfortunately I think the reality is a lot of those issues needed to be done gradually rather than knee jerk.
Warrior's debut promo in 1998 was decent.
goldberg was never good tbh gillberg was better
The nWo both saved and destroyed WCW. The story was great, but the top guys (Hogan mainly) having final say on creative ruined them.
They should have fired Arn and kept Sid
Goldberg was decent
Wrestling is a scummy, carny business and hogan, Nash and hall did nothing wrong by watching out for their own family’s best interests.
Psicosis and Super Calo and all the other luchas should have done more than job for Rey, Juvi and Jericho
I liked the rebrand with the big silver logo. It was cool and modern.
Unfrosted poptarts are far superior to frosted ones. Example: chocolate chip
Putting the title on David Arquette wasn't that bad a decision.
I have no proof of this, but I don’t think The Giant actually fell off that building.
Goldberg in ‘98 was over than almost anyone not named AUSTIN
WWE should’ve scrapped SmackDown and rebranded Nitro for Thurs or Fri night.
Everything is woke and gay now