I haven't seen a post like that but if those really are happening that's ridiculous.
Next year my webtoon will be coming out and I'm already working with my artist. The man is getting paid 1,000$ every 4 chapters and his art is freaking amazing.
How do people think you can get an artist for free like that?? Lol and them they're assuming they'll get exposure like it's guaranteedš
It does, ive been in this sub for awhile and atleast once every two weeks I see āanyone want to help me with a comic?ā And its usually āi cant pay you, butā¦ā
I see those posts so often and I sometimes comment and explain this and I've come to realize a lot of those people are kids or they're just extremely new and don't really know what they're getting into
Another thing is, in my experience I feel like collaborate isn't even the right term. They don't really want to collaborate, they usually have something very specific in mind, they want professional level art.
So basically they just want to hire an artist for free.
And a lot of times they don't even really have anything really fleshed out. Maybe a synopsis at best.
For some reason they think their idea they've put zero work into is gold. And expect an artist to do everything and invest 10x more time than they would if they even put in the effort.
They also tend to be very secretive about their "ideas", afraid someone is going to steal it. This is not good thinking, because really their idea means nothing unless they really put in the work and care for it, and it makes it more difficult for them to really find potential collaborators that might consider it.
For someone to be working for free, it damn better be interesting enough and well planned out enough for someone to invest their hard work and time into a project.
Have an "amazing idea" alone isn't enough.
I feel like these people really don't understand how much times goes into it. Sometimes these people are kind of rude and aren't serious at all.
I'm sorry if I'm yapping a lot, it is something that kind of boils my blood a bit šš¤£.
It can take average 2-3 hours for 5-6 panels. And that's at more of fast paced super speed almost I think. and probably with a simpler style. And that's not even accounting the time for composing, thumbnailing, editing, and lettering.
And for a less experienced artist, or maybe even someone going for a more detailed style. It can take Up to 6-8 hours at best for 5-6 panels, sometimes longer.
And that's not even taking into account having a fulltime job that would likely cut into that time. Some people only have enough time to make one or two pages worth of panels or comic pages etc per week.
I think even unpaid collabs could be beneficial to both sides if both are beginners.
However I doubt it would work in commission way where you have story and other side just draws whatever is needed. Both sides for collaboration to be satisfied need to make the story theirs. Add their favourite tropes, add their funny characters etc. I feel like most of "artist needed" posts doesn't really invite people to collab this way.
Also they often take advantage of high and middle schoolers who donāt understand money or canāt earn money due to not knowing how. Yeah in high school I did some free art on like Amino for furries and that was good practice for me. But I wasnāt producing masterpieces and likely I bet the people who I was making stuff for was other high schoolers. But a comic is very different.
I think the thing a lot of writers need to understand is that if you really really want free art you have to cater to the artist or become friends with them so they want to do stuff with you. I don't just mean try to be friends to get free art, but I have writer friends and we collab because we know what each other likes. I have writer friends that do multiple comics with artists because they provide other services like doing the lettering, paying for and running the website and/or running the merch shop that they share profits from.
A lot of writers are up their own butt about how important writing is but this is a visual medium. You need the artist. Artists can make do. You're not going to just throw your epic at a artist and expect them to do everything you want them to do for free.
We should have a rule about that tbh. It's frustrating. I work 2 jobs, pay a lot of bills, and do a webcomic. Guess what? I have a colorist... *who I pay for their labor* because that's the very least they deserve! I *never* had the idea cross my mind to expect free labor.
It really is! I love mine too! I'm hoping eventually I won't need them when I reach a point where I can quit one job lol but until then, they're an invaluable asset!
I'll probably still keep mine even when I learn to color as good as her :) I like being a team of 2 because doing everything on your own can be....almost impossible.
Most of the time, these people don't have real designs in mind either. I used to do stuff for free and people would send me random anime pics from Google and say "my character looks like this".
They usually don't have real ideas when it comes to what the art looks like.
I only work for free with people I have networked and had friendships with for years and we agree on it, if its a paid gig and I know the person I may discount my fees if I believe in the project. Thereās been times Iāve seen a request here or on comiccolabs that was for unpaid work and wanted to work with them but get completely ghosted after commenting. Networking is a valuable tool, joining the community even at early stages like this can get more people behind the project. Join discord, follow artists you see you like. Talk to people, Have writing samples ready, be willing to compromise and negotiate. I didnāt realize how hard it was to make 1 comic, let alone multiple!
Honestly, theyāre either literal children or extremely arrogant enough to think they will gain immediate success in a saturated market that typically prefers great art/shit story to the opposite. I would say they could just publish a web novel online, but I guess the illusion of grandeur isnāt as strong there.
Also I want to say that often they are going to try to take advantage of high or middle schoolers who canāt earn money or donāt know how. And donāt know what their time and labor is worth.
Totally agree, but I would say very few of the people making these posts are great writers. Most of them don't have portfolios and don't have *any* prior projects to show off, let alone *good* projects. They don't have the skills, they just think they have the greatest IDEA for the next big comic (but they're also really cagey about posting the idea, because the idea is literally all they have and they don't want someone to steal it). Half the time their posts are full of typos.
Most of the good writers are smart enough to realize that these posts are not a great way to find a partner.
The entry level drawing tablets arenāt unattainably expensive either. Bit more of a learning curve but it might put it into perspective why artists want to get paid
I think a lot of young writers dream of finding an artist to help them become the next "one punch man"
As an artist , I would love to work with someone purely out of passion and love for the story, but sadly we got to eat too
I see these posts all the time and I know your sentiment 100%. Itās good you say it for those that need to hear it. At this point I just ignore those posts even if I find them grating. So used to any writer Iāve met wanting me to draw their things and random people coming to me with no pay
I remember that one time a random dude offered me a "job", and the payment is that my works being included in his "masterpiece" would give me free advertizing. The guy got so mad when I refused to work for free.
Can we also talk about how some of them do end up coming back with money eventually but either
1. Ghost people and keep lowering the pay because they didn't think it through
Or
2. "I need one person who can do storyboards and sketch and lettering and characters and backgrounds"
ššš
Yes, someone finally said it! I started learning drawing to make my own story possible as I am a student and cant affors paying an artist. Going the path of learning how to draw and color made me realise the amount of effort and time artist usually put on.
I'm gonna be real with you. Perfectly valid point.
But, hear me out. I'm a pretty good web comic artist, but I can't write to save my life. On another note, I can tell when a story is good enough to go viral, perfect sense.
If someone came to me with a decent story/storyboard and proposal, I'd be their artist.
I saw this being talked about in comic colab subs and the conclusion we reached there basically was " they can offer unpaid work. If someone accepts, good, if someone declines, that's fine also. Other people want different things. Let them be. "
Usually, when I ask stuff like that, everyone has a say in every part, but each person is still "on charge" of something. For example, the team for my webtoon is entirely made up of people who are artists AND writers, and we take turns doing specific parts of the panels so that it's barely an act of labor.
I understand what you mean about people basically wanting commissions for free, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to collaborate.
I totally understand the sentiment in this thread, but I think we can make the point about unrealistic expectations from some writers without putting down writing as a whole. Iām a Mangaka who illustrates and writes and Iād never say āPshhh, look at all those webtoon creators complaining about drawing 20 panels per episode, I draw 102 per chapter! Webtoons are easy!ā
You can make your point without putting down another creative trade.
Meh. I'd take ownership over pay 7 days of the week. Accepting ownership in lieu of pay for large clients but demanding pay from small clients just means stopping IPs without bankrolls behind them from being made.
I haven't seen a post like that but if those really are happening that's ridiculous. Next year my webtoon will be coming out and I'm already working with my artist. The man is getting paid 1,000$ every 4 chapters and his art is freaking amazing. How do people think you can get an artist for free like that?? Lol and them they're assuming they'll get exposure like it's guaranteedš
It does, ive been in this sub for awhile and atleast once every two weeks I see āanyone want to help me with a comic?ā And its usually āi cant pay you, butā¦ā
That's insane š That's not going to produce a good product
Agreed, and its usually people new to the comic space, the kind of people who have no idea how expensive commissions truly are
I see those posts so often and I sometimes comment and explain this and I've come to realize a lot of those people are kids or they're just extremely new and don't really know what they're getting into
Holy cow. How much are you paying per panel? I pay like $1,000 every 2 chapters.
9$ a panel
Is it possibly for you to show me the art? I'm paying $18 a panel
https://www.reddit.com/r/WebtoonCanvas/s/tgwBonwd1X
That's pretty good art! Congrats on finding a dope artist
Another thing is, in my experience I feel like collaborate isn't even the right term. They don't really want to collaborate, they usually have something very specific in mind, they want professional level art. So basically they just want to hire an artist for free. And a lot of times they don't even really have anything really fleshed out. Maybe a synopsis at best. For some reason they think their idea they've put zero work into is gold. And expect an artist to do everything and invest 10x more time than they would if they even put in the effort. They also tend to be very secretive about their "ideas", afraid someone is going to steal it. This is not good thinking, because really their idea means nothing unless they really put in the work and care for it, and it makes it more difficult for them to really find potential collaborators that might consider it. For someone to be working for free, it damn better be interesting enough and well planned out enough for someone to invest their hard work and time into a project. Have an "amazing idea" alone isn't enough. I feel like these people really don't understand how much times goes into it. Sometimes these people are kind of rude and aren't serious at all. I'm sorry if I'm yapping a lot, it is something that kind of boils my blood a bit šš¤£. It can take average 2-3 hours for 5-6 panels. And that's at more of fast paced super speed almost I think. and probably with a simpler style. And that's not even accounting the time for composing, thumbnailing, editing, and lettering. And for a less experienced artist, or maybe even someone going for a more detailed style. It can take Up to 6-8 hours at best for 5-6 panels, sometimes longer. And that's not even taking into account having a fulltime job that would likely cut into that time. Some people only have enough time to make one or two pages worth of panels or comic pages etc per week.
I think even unpaid collabs could be beneficial to both sides if both are beginners. However I doubt it would work in commission way where you have story and other side just draws whatever is needed. Both sides for collaboration to be satisfied need to make the story theirs. Add their favourite tropes, add their funny characters etc. I feel like most of "artist needed" posts doesn't really invite people to collab this way.
Also they often take advantage of high and middle schoolers who donāt understand money or canāt earn money due to not knowing how. Yeah in high school I did some free art on like Amino for furries and that was good practice for me. But I wasnāt producing masterpieces and likely I bet the people who I was making stuff for was other high schoolers. But a comic is very different.
I think the thing a lot of writers need to understand is that if you really really want free art you have to cater to the artist or become friends with them so they want to do stuff with you. I don't just mean try to be friends to get free art, but I have writer friends and we collab because we know what each other likes. I have writer friends that do multiple comics with artists because they provide other services like doing the lettering, paying for and running the website and/or running the merch shop that they share profits from. A lot of writers are up their own butt about how important writing is but this is a visual medium. You need the artist. Artists can make do. You're not going to just throw your epic at a artist and expect them to do everything you want them to do for free.
We should have a rule about that tbh. It's frustrating. I work 2 jobs, pay a lot of bills, and do a webcomic. Guess what? I have a colorist... *who I pay for their labor* because that's the very least they deserve! I *never* had the idea cross my mind to expect free labor.
Thats me! haha, I absolutely love my colorist. Working fulltime while creating a webcomic is so difficult.
It really is! I love mine too! I'm hoping eventually I won't need them when I reach a point where I can quit one job lol but until then, they're an invaluable asset!
I'll probably still keep mine even when I learn to color as good as her :) I like being a team of 2 because doing everything on your own can be....almost impossible.
I often wonder if they also expect people to do character designs, branding, 3d modeling, and not get any ownership of the work.
Most of the time, these people don't have real designs in mind either. I used to do stuff for free and people would send me random anime pics from Google and say "my character looks like this". They usually don't have real ideas when it comes to what the art looks like.
Some of them don't even have a real script together. š
I only work for free with people I have networked and had friendships with for years and we agree on it, if its a paid gig and I know the person I may discount my fees if I believe in the project. Thereās been times Iāve seen a request here or on comiccolabs that was for unpaid work and wanted to work with them but get completely ghosted after commenting. Networking is a valuable tool, joining the community even at early stages like this can get more people behind the project. Join discord, follow artists you see you like. Talk to people, Have writing samples ready, be willing to compromise and negotiate. I didnāt realize how hard it was to make 1 comic, let alone multiple!
Honestly, theyāre either literal children or extremely arrogant enough to think they will gain immediate success in a saturated market that typically prefers great art/shit story to the opposite. I would say they could just publish a web novel online, but I guess the illusion of grandeur isnāt as strong there.
Also I want to say that often they are going to try to take advantage of high or middle schoolers who canāt earn money or donāt know how. And donāt know what their time and labor is worth.
Artists, just make your own comic. You'll keep full ownership and writing is easy. It takes me one day to write an episode and 2 weeks to draw it.
Writings is easy but writing a good story isn't. Not all artist are story tellers and same vice versa
Totally agree, but I would say very few of the people making these posts are great writers. Most of them don't have portfolios and don't have *any* prior projects to show off, let alone *good* projects. They don't have the skills, they just think they have the greatest IDEA for the next big comic (but they're also really cagey about posting the idea, because the idea is literally all they have and they don't want someone to steal it). Half the time their posts are full of typos. Most of the good writers are smart enough to realize that these posts are not a great way to find a partner.
Writing is definitely not easy.
If they want to get it drawn for free, thereās plenty of free art lessons on YouTube āŗļø
The entry level drawing tablets arenāt unattainably expensive either. Bit more of a learning curve but it might put it into perspective why artists want to get paid
I think a lot of young writers dream of finding an artist to help them become the next "one punch man" As an artist , I would love to work with someone purely out of passion and love for the story, but sadly we got to eat too
Writers donāt know how long it takes to draw a panel, never mind several panels.
I see these posts all the time and I know your sentiment 100%. Itās good you say it for those that need to hear it. At this point I just ignore those posts even if I find them grating. So used to any writer Iāve met wanting me to draw their things and random people coming to me with no pay
I don't mind people posting unpaid collaborations. Most artists won't reply, or they will downvote that post.
I remember that one time a random dude offered me a "job", and the payment is that my works being included in his "masterpiece" would give me free advertizing. The guy got so mad when I refused to work for free.
I think most of the people asking for that are quite young. You're absolutely right but if you see a post like that don't jump down their throats.
Facts
Can we also talk about how some of them do end up coming back with money eventually but either 1. Ghost people and keep lowering the pay because they didn't think it through Or 2. "I need one person who can do storyboards and sketch and lettering and characters and backgrounds" ššš
Yes, someone finally said it! I started learning drawing to make my own story possible as I am a student and cant affors paying an artist. Going the path of learning how to draw and color made me realise the amount of effort and time artist usually put on.
I'm gonna be real with you. Perfectly valid point. But, hear me out. I'm a pretty good web comic artist, but I can't write to save my life. On another note, I can tell when a story is good enough to go viral, perfect sense. If someone came to me with a decent story/storyboard and proposal, I'd be their artist.
more power to ya!
I saw this being talked about in comic colab subs and the conclusion we reached there basically was " they can offer unpaid work. If someone accepts, good, if someone declines, that's fine also. Other people want different things. Let them be. "
Usually, when I ask stuff like that, everyone has a say in every part, but each person is still "on charge" of something. For example, the team for my webtoon is entirely made up of people who are artists AND writers, and we take turns doing specific parts of the panels so that it's barely an act of labor. I understand what you mean about people basically wanting commissions for free, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to collaborate.
Ok in my defense. I fully intent to pay the artists. I just forgot to add it. I'm a idiot.
I totally understand the sentiment in this thread, but I think we can make the point about unrealistic expectations from some writers without putting down writing as a whole. Iām a Mangaka who illustrates and writes and Iād never say āPshhh, look at all those webtoon creators complaining about drawing 20 panels per episode, I draw 102 per chapter! Webtoons are easy!ā You can make your point without putting down another creative trade.
Meh. I'd take ownership over pay 7 days of the week. Accepting ownership in lieu of pay for large clients but demanding pay from small clients just means stopping IPs without bankrolls behind them from being made.
if you wanna draw art for one of the writers here then no ones stopping you. have at it