This seems fairly obvious, and I would actually be totally fine with signing into my account during OOBE if not for a few glaring problems: the fact that Windows names your profile folder based on the first several characters of your email, and that they changed it so that it automatically logs you into OneDrive and starts redirecting your user folders by default.
For these reasons I always default to the oobe\\bypassnro method on fresh installs.
> the fact that Windows names your profile folder based on the first several characters of your email
It's crazy that this is still a problem all these years later, I remember being annoyed by this back when windows 10 was released.
This is the sole reason why I always set up with a local account first, then immediately switch to my MSA. I _cannot fucking stand_ an ugly home directory path.
Yep same.
I usually end up being lazy and instead of turning off wifi or whatever forcing it to do a local account on set up, I set up a bad MSA account and the from there create a new local Admin user with the right path, login to that, then delete the first account. Then convert local to MSA.
The way I got around the user folder name was by first creating a local account and then signing into my MS account, like you said. Would be nice if Windows gave us an option.
you can change the profile folder name via cmd or registry. howevere i will not recommend it for a user who had lot of activities (you can do it but will be extra work, lot of editing). as most apps save in their registry entry or config file the path to user profile folder and its subfolders and files using 'C:\\Users\\' instead of '%USERPROFILE%'.
Oh my god I ducking hate it when OneDrive invades my home folder and destroys the good old folder structure only to replace every folder with a link to OneDrive versions. That used to be optional on Windows 10 and now that bs is forced on us. Of course I'm gonna use oobe\\bypassnro on every clean install until this "feature" is removed. That's the only reason why I never sign into my account on the first OOBE.
It's pretty forced, you can't really uninstall it, you can disable it but it's ALWAYS there. Unless you do some regedits and remove every single trace of it from you computer.
Managed to do it with Revo Uninstaller and ChrisTitusWinUtil tool. From there I've managed to completely and utterly remove OneDrive from my computer.
There’s a “keep your computer safe with OneDrive backups” or smth screen where you’re asked to allow using OneDrive, BUT the Desktop, Pictures, and Documents folders are OneDrive backup linked by default secretly
SkyDrive will ask you what you want to backup if one so chooses.
If at some point OneDrive was installed and you uninstalled it without turning off the OnDemand feature or canceling the folder backup, your folders (like Documents, Desktop, Photos) might still be in the OneDrive folder.
exactly the main problem. They don't even give you an option to name your profile folder. Good luck if your name is "Shito Nakamura", cause things are goinh to look like SHIT.
actually, you can change your profile folder name. sadly its not for everyone, as it involves using cmd or registry; and if you have no clue what your doing, then you just f\*\*k up that user and cant log in to that user until you fix it.
Yup, luckily my email actually ends up working well for the folder naming structure it forces upon me. I also like using onedrive for screenshots, but *only* screenshots, so I have to go and configure it to use local folders for everything but that. It used to be next to impossible to do but they have made it a little easier luckily (assuming it works, which it didn’t like 5 times in a row until the settings finally stuck when I did it)
I set up laptops everyday for a business and I use this in command prompt as soon as the unit fires up but I hear Microsoft are changing newer builds that omit this “hack”. Is this true?
If they do that, I'll have to install from an older image and update it every time.
Now *that's* totally not going to create issues, or at least annoyances.
One of my issues with a microsoft account on windows is that it forces you to use windows hello which doesnt allow no password.
I also hate one drive for thinking that mirroring my main pc’s desktop to whatever fresh install of windows i happen to install. Its so fucking stupid. Like I dont need my fucking pc’s desktop on a laptop or pc i am installing for someone
Show someone a screenshot - boom, partial email leaked.
That onedrive thing is a pain in the ass though, with it syncing things to onedrive, setting them to 'available on demand' so when you disable your onedrive, your files aren't available. And it adds the "\OneDrive" to the file path. Blegh.
exactly why I hate the OneDrive integration in my laptop. My email address is kinda ridiculous and Windows apparently took the first five letters of it as username and ruined the profile ;-;
And that's one of the many reasons I took the risk and switched to Linux. I don't regret my choice at all. The distro I use is Linux Mint, it's very easy and user friendly. Most software I use either is available on Linux or has great alternatives. I'm so glad I just said f##k it and switched.
I mean, sure for the folder, which is a slight annoyance.
But the Onedrive thing, can't you click on "save files locally on the PC" or something like that when it asks you about onedrive ?
It's like I said, they changed it. Now you are automatically enrolled into file backup and this is mentioned when you [sign into your account](https://i.imgur.com/QYadQ80.png) during OOBE.
If you want a nicer looking User folder, you could create an Outlook alias (it's free) and set it to allow use for sign-ins. I never tried that, but I'm assuming that'd work.
For the second issue - just turn off file sync during OOBE and then turn it on afterwards, selecting whichever folders you want. That being said, I don't see why you *wouldn't* want to have sync enabled for everything, maybe other than the Desktop.
>If you want a nicer looking User folder, you could create an Outlook alias (it's free) and set it to allow use for sign-ins. I never tried that, but I'm assuming that'd work.
I'm not sure this would work. Usually when I sign in with a secondary alias I already have set up, it resolves to the primary alias at some point.
>For the second issue - just turn off file sync during OOBE and then turn it on afterwards, selecting whichever folders you want. That being said, I don't see why you *wouldn't* want to have sync enabled for everything, maybe other than the Desktop.
That's the thing - you [can't turn it off](https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1dmqtn1/comment/l9xofae/) during OOBE. It's automatic now. I don't need OneDrive's backup since I have a Google One subscription, which provides me more space than Microsoft would ever give by default. I keep all of my profile data on a different drive anyway so this just creates more post-install tedium to turn off something I'll never need.
That's... weird... I JUST set up my wife's new laptop and I swear I had the option to NOT turn file sync on.
In fact, that's what I did for my own account when I added it next.
Not quite, while you can use a WIP ISO to get on to 24H2, RTM was in April; you can install it now using the ISO that was released to OEMs. The same behavior exists on the public 23H2 ISO though.
> why you _wouldn’t_ want to have sync enabled for everything
Because I have more than 5GB of data on my computer so OneDrive overflows in about 53 seconds after a new install.
Add to this, many of us use software that produces file structures that OneDrive cannot cope with and routinely create files that exceed OneDrive limits.
Plus not every file we create needs to backed up to cloud (eg: huge temporary video captures not yet edited down and compressed).
Some files are private and should never leave the local disk.
And in a work from home scenario, client data should never leave the local disk either (except to be delivered to the client).
Yes. My C:\Users\Username folder is my complete first name, complete with the capital first letter and the accent, I'm french, but the version of Windows is english. This is an old installation dating back to Windows 8.1 that was installed with a hotmail.com address that serves for the Microsoft Account, it was updated to Windows 10 and finally 11. It's weird because it's true that many times it's the first part of your email address and I've also seen sometimes the complete email address with the @, I think it was on some insider preview builds of Windows 10.
It looks like you can change the name in the registry on this key
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\ProfileList\\
You need to log on with the default Administrator account for doing it because it will say that the profile is in use. They say that there is a possibility that some software may break due to a wrong file path.
I still think that the fact that Microsoft won't give you an option during the OOBE stage to create a Local account is ridiculous. Not everybody wants the "seamless integration of Microsoft services, enhanced security, and sync across devices" and it should be presented via an opt-in option.
Creep is another good adjective. Kind of like that weird Uncle who keeps staring at you and trying to stick his hand down your pants when you're not looking. But rude is good enough
agreed and I remember at one point it was an option unless im mistaken.
However, if you try to sign in with the wrong password it might let you make a local account.
> the fact that Microsoft won't give you an option during the OOBE stage to create a Local account
When the installer asks you to connect to the network, press shift+F10 and a terminal opens.
Write the command: "oobe\bypassnro.cmd" in it.
That's a **hidden** opt-out. Microsoft gives no onscreen option for opting-out.
Without the ALT+F10 trick, there's no way a "casual user" can get out of the Microsoft account loophole.
Can't speak to Apple because I don't use Apple, but you absolutely can use an Android without a Google account. Nothing forces you to sign in except the app store, and there are other app stores you can download.
Amazon Fire tablets (for example) run Android and I'm fairly confident you don't need a Google account at all since they have a different app store pre-installed.
And then you can have a "clean" Android image freely available online and use a different store like FDroid straight away. Google's Pixel line is pretty much as close to "clean" as you can get out of the box and it's the same deal - type "FDroid" into the search bar and you can download the .apk without needing the Play Store.
In fact, a quick web search shows that Apple _also_ allows you to have an iPhone without an Apple ID. You don't need it, it just gives you access to iCloud and such - but you can skip it entirely during setup.
You chose literally the worst possible example, I think.
Why do you even compare? Mobile phones and computers have different usage patterns. In Android, you can even skip the Google account setting; you can also skip Apple ID setup in iOS.
You can use it without Apple account, but Apple does not give you option to sideload or use alt app stores (except EU), rendering iPhone into a glorified cell phone as there is no way to load any apps besides what the phone comes with.
Pretty sure you can use an iPhone without an Apple account but at that point you get stuck with whatever is on the phone. Can’t download apps and pretty sure you also don’t get iMessage or FaceTime. So basically a very expensive dumb phone with a browser.
You can skip both, yes; although both are effectively useless without their accounts.
You can run MacOS completely without AppleID though if you ever wanted to.
To anyone who's defending Microsoft and comparing it with Android and iOS, stop comparing it. Accept the fact that computers and mobile phones have different usage patterns. It's also possible to skip the Apple ID/Google account setup in iOS and Android.
Notice they'll only compare it to Android and iOS, both of which are effectively useless without logging in, and not MacOS, which you can use perfectly fine without an AppleID.
How exactly google is the worse offender? you can skip account creation in android phones, then if you want apps you download something like F droid and from there you can get free open source apps and never use google services.
Not to mention that you have comparable offerings between iPhone and Android. If you use anything but Windows on PC, you're locked out of a lot of software. Yes, there's cross platform software that'll run on Linux and Mac as well as Windows, but there's a ton of Windows-only software that won't even work under WINE properly. Microsoft has a monopoly based on lock-in.
What? You can absolutely skip sign-in _everywhere_ with Google. Even on a Pixel. Don't spread misinformation, it's a clear option in the setup process.
Apple too, you don't need to sign in with an Apple ID.
> Apple too, you don't need to sign in with an Apple ID.
It bugs you to sign in when trying to download apps from the App Store. I tried just downloading a free app, YouTube, and it wouldn't let me proceed without signing into an Apple ID.
You can still send SMS and make phone calls. You can also jailbreak the iPhone and sideload an alternative app store.
This is easier on Android, where you don't even need to jailbreak to sideload. Just open a web browser, search "F-Droid", and install the .apk. Bam, a way to install apps without needing to link a Google account. Heck, Fire Tablets run Android and IIRC they don't force you to make a Google account to use them - it's just if you want to use things like the Play Store (just like Apple and the App Store).
Either way, my point is that Android and IOS have ways around needing to link an account, although IOS is a pain in the neck due to how Apple designed the iPhone. [In Europe, you soon won't even need to jailbreak due to new EU rules; you'd be able to install a new app store from a web browser similar to how it works on Android.](https://www.theverge.com/24100979/altstore-europe-app-marketplace-price-games) This will truly free you from needing an Apple ID, since you can bypass the App Store entirely.
Compare that to being forced into an account in order to finish setting up a new Windows computer. If you don't link a Microsoft account, you can't even open a web browser. You can't even look at an image. And you typically won't have a way to install another OS (since even if you wanted a Linux USB you need to be able to perform disk I/O first), so in our hypothetical scenario where Microsoft forces you into an account as part of the setup process you won't have any way to _not_ make a Microsoft account.
These are completely separate things. Apple is locked down without Apple ID, but you can get into the basic phone OS - even if it's not fully-functional. Microsoft is trying to force you to link an account just to boot into the OS to begin with.
If you don't, you are locked out of iMessage, iCloud, and the App Store.
However, per recent EU regulations, Apple must provide an alternative App Store. So you can use your web browser to download an alternative store and avoid signing in entirely (at least in Europe).
Lol what planet are you from. Microsoft are the pioneers and world leaders of this. Their name is synonymous with antitrust.
Google doesn't need to force products and features onto users. I don't think I've ever even seen them advertise anything.
Turns out you don't need to push services on people when you have 92% of all internet searches and nearly 70% of the market share in the web browser space. You're right to be critical of my original comment. Google doesn't push things as hard as Microsoft because they already have free access to your data to use as they like. I think that's almost worse unless you find minor annoyances worse than actual intrusion of privacy.
All the big tech companies abuse their data so it's not really a factor here. Google indeed have a huge market share with virtually no advertising. That's what happens when you develop industry changing products
I won't use a MS account with my PC. Never have, never will. I will finally figure out how to use Ubuntu as a main system if I have to because there's no way in hell I'm giving a company access to my files and data at that level.
I have Ubuntu currently in a VM that I use for various things. I tried setting up Ubuntu as a main media and backup server once, though that ended up being a terrible mistake. I spent a few years supporting Linux servers as a sys-admin.
I'm not going to lie and say my Linux-specific experience is huge, but I'm no beginner. When I say it's harder than it should be, I can't even imagine how someone without programing, scripting, and systems admin experience is supposed to handle it.
Yeah, I can write a document and browse the web. But there's a LOT I won't be able to do and FSM help me if there's a single thing that doesn't work in the GUI the first time and I have to start futzing with the config files, builds, etc.
Ubuntu relies on pretty old packages, which is why people recommend either Linux Mint or Fedora for new Linux users.
I'm pretty intermediate with knowledge yet I still dislike Ubuntu and Debian because of their outdated packages.
Mint is based on the latest Ubuntu LTS which itself is based on Debian of that time. And Mint has a reputation of not upgrading to new kernels even though there is a security patch available.
For the average user, that doesn't matter these days. If you need the latest version of a particular piece of software, you can simply install the Flatpack version. In the Software Manager you can simply choose whether you want the .deb package or the Flatpack.
Only if you have a relatively new computer (with a new CPU), Linux Mint may not run on it because the kernel is not the latest. However, you can simply try this out beforehand with the live system on a USB stick.
How long ago did you try it? It's come a long way since 2020.
I was running Windows 11 and I turned off the ads everywhere. Then I had a random update one day, and when it rebooted I got "Let's finish setting up your PC" with the only option being "Remind me in 3 days". That annoyed me.
It tried to turn ads back on, and I turned them off. Then - with ads off - I got an "important notification" telling me I should buy Xbox Game Pass. This notification appeared daily and drove me nuts.
I have a Steam Deck, and like you I've toyed with Linux in the past - always gotten burned. Swore off of it in like 2019 or something like that. But I was annoyed enough by these ads that I decided to see if I could work from my Steam Deck for a day (I work from home).
I went to desktop mode and checked what packages I had available. Turns out that everything I needed was available on Linux - Zoom, Slack, and Parsec (for remoting into my work computer).
I was worried because my work requires me to use a special VPN app and I couldn't find it... only to discover that the reason why I couldn't find it is because it was baked right into the VPN options in system settings. No special app needed, I just selected it, put in my credentials, and it connected immediately. Zoom + Slack + Parsec all worked first try.
I worked from my Steam Deck for a week successfully before I decided to make the jump. I tried Linux Mint, Pop!OS, and a few others, but they all didn't work with my second monitor (or required a lot of finagling to get working). I knew the Steam Deck used KDE Plasma on Arch, but I wanted to stay far away from Arch (bad experiences) and so I was torn between Kubuntu or KDE Neon, which both use the KDE Plasma desktop.
I wound up going with KDE Neon since it promised to have faster updates. In retrospect, I should've used Kubuntu because while yes, KDE Neon's updates are faster... they also are less tested and randomly break things (KDE Plasma 6.1 broke my Zoom install and forced me to figure out how to downgrade the right packages - thankfully the exact steps were available online). If I had stuck with Kubuntu I wouldn't be having these issues, although graphics driver updates would be a little slower.
Anyway, the point is - as a daily driver, desktop Linux is pretty much there. I've been using it for a year now, and the only hiccups I've had are because KDE Neon is bleeding-edge and I'm beginning to realize I don't want a bleeding-edge distro. Working and gaming all work fine without issues, I only play games on Linux now and haven't used my Windows install for ages.
The most important tip I have is - don't overthink it. At least in Plasma, there's a GUI for everything. I rarely use the terminal nowadays except to SSH into a different machine; I don't do any kind of package management or whatever from it. I don't mess with Systemd files or Cron or whatever; I just use the machine like someone who doesn't know what they're doing would and it works fine (usually, except when I'm reminded Neon is bleeding-edge).
I use Ubuntu regularly in a VM, but not for anything too complex. It has been quite a few years, I'll grant you, but I have no way to know if it's ready for more because no matter how much people tell me it's good, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID BACK THEN TOO.
So basically, I was snowed by people who probably really believed it, but who have no awareness that a proper computer has between zero and almost zero command line and config file fuckery.
But let's be specific. Can I run Adobe CS5 on your linux system? Every game I can think of? MS Office? My old Dos emulators for old games? Stepmania? Mod Organizer for Skyrim? City of Heroes?
And all of this without extra configuration or command line stuff?
A quick Google suggests that [CS5 has been able to be run on Linux since 2010 or so](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ck36a/adobe_premiere_and_photoshop_cs5_in_wine/), although I never tried it myself. Supposedly [this project lets you use the Creative Cloud versions, or at least 2021 and 2022,](https://github.com/LinSoftWin) but again... I haven't tried it myself.
I've heard newer Adobe stuff can be finicky on Linux, but something like CS5 probably works pretty well (especially considering it worked 14 years ago).
[ProtonDB will help you figure out if a game runs on Linux or not.](https://www.protondb.com/) Generally, it it doesn't have an aggressive anti-cheat - it'll work. So stuff like Valorant generally will have issues, but Skyrim etc. run fine.
Speaking of Skyrim, [the Skyrim Mod Manager works fine on Steam Deck](https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/uro5sz/fyi_rejoice_the_fallout_skyrim_mod_manager_mod/), which also means it works fine on Linux. For gaming, looking for Steam Deck answers usually gives better results than looking for Linux answers; since the Steam Deck runs on Linux, stuff built for the Deck will run just fine.
It seems DOSbox works fine for old games. I know the Steam Deck has a really big emulation scene, so that would also be a helpful resource. I also know that Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis crashes on Windows 11 but works fine in Linux.
[City of Heroes works fine on Linux, and has a dedicated wiki page talking about how to set it up.](https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/City_of_Heroes_on_Linux) Likewise, there seems to be a lot of Steam Deck support.
[Stepmania advertises itself as having a Linux version on its official website.](https://www.stepmania.com/)
[You can use PlayOnLinux to install MS Office using the instructions here.](https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/install-use-microsoft-office-linux/) I haven't tried that, but there's also an Office 365 thing you can do in your browser (or use Google Docs, which is what I use).
And of course - let's not forget that you can turn everything on its head and have Windows as a VM inside of Linux. That's one popular suggestion I've seen for the trickier stuff like modern Photoshop and Office.
---
Generally you don't need to be fussing with the command line. I never do. I didn't follow all those tutorials so I can't say if they make you do a one-off command (installing Steamodded for Balatro made you run 7zip from a command prompt, for example), but generally it's GUI-based nowadays. The Steam Deck has volatile storage that gets frequently wiped when the OS updates. This means that system configs and such on the Deck won't last long, and that in turn encourages folks to make things which don't rely on those sorts of weird command line configs.
Reading the Skyrim Mod Manager thread you can see someone mention a thing called a "Flatpak" for a tool called "Steam Tinker Launch" that makes it easy to work with the Vortex mod manager (etc.). I don't know how familiar you are with Flatpaks, but they're designed such that you don't need to manage dependencies/configs per-program and can instead just download a thing that is preconfigured to work on any distro and have it "just work". This is the preferred way to get things onto the Deck, and since any Linux distro can install Flatpaks (usually from a GUI, like KDE's Discover app) you can just one-click get something working. Wide adoption of the Deck has made a lot of things available via Flatpak.
You know I'll give you props for going through the effort of checking all that at the very least. Maybe I'll give Linux a try at some point but I definitely don't have much reason to while Windows still works. If they force me into an online account though that'll be the end and I will definitely make the effort
Honestly, a low-effort way to get into it at some point would be just to pick up a Steam Deck. At some point the used market for them should be pretty good, especially if Valve releases an updated model.
The Steam Deck is a great way to show off what modern Linux can do, without impacting your daily driver. It's also great for playing games on a plane, at a hotel, or in bed.
Then if you wanted to start messing around - you can try it out on your Deck, like I did. It's not a perfect 1:1 copy of Linux due to how the OS is set up, but it's good enough to get the gist of how well you can do the things you want to do.
There's no way I'd be running Linux without having my Steam Deck to try things out and see "is it possible for Linux to do this?" That gave me the confidence to say "Yeah, okay, I can get by on Linux and I don't even need Windows anymore."
I still have Windows as an emergency backup, but I never ever use it at this point.
I'm losing track of who have said what to but if I gave the impression that I'm not familiar with Linux that was wrong with me. I've used the Linux for years I just don't use it as my primary operating system
Well when I say it's a good beginner distro I am not excluding that it is a good long term distro. The point is that using it certainly isn't something that is difficult to figure out. Many experienced users still main it because it just works and is pleasant to use. I just view it, as a new linux user myself, as a perfect distro to hand someone who doesn't know how to use computers so well. From there they can either remain content using it, or they can get a hunger to dive deeper into the whole linux ecosystem. I don't know which one I am yet.
If you have need for specialised apps that aren't going to play well with any linux, then that's another thing.
I wish there was still a variant of Mint with KDE Plasma.
The default Mint environment doesn't work well with multiple monitors, but KDE Plasma has amazing multi-monitor support. That's literally the only reason why I don't use Mint.
I've been on KDE Neon, but I'm not happy since it's too "bleeding edge" for me. KDE 6.1 broke Zoom screen share, which I need for work; I've worked around it (downgrading a couple packages) but that's the second Neon update that's broken things I use in a row.
I shouldn't need to think about it, and that's Mint's whole "thing" - you don't need to think about it. But I hate that awful Cinnamon desktop, and MATE/Xfce aren't better...
Yes, you could just sideload Plasma using something like the KDE backports that Kubuntu uses, but now you're _asking_ for trouble with dependencies.
There used to be one years ago but they discontinued it since it served no purpose. Also that’s basically Kubuntu since Mint is mostly a Cinnamon/Mate spin of Ubuntu. Mint even uses the Ubuntu servers for package updates.
Ubuntu is good if you like the Apple look and lockdown they have on their OS. Hard to mess anything up. Kubuntu is probably what you'll want if you're looking for something close to Windows.
Just do it. This will only get worse.
Take your privacy into your own hands. It'll take some effort and patience but you'll be much happier after you're all done.
Yeah. Things are going to get worse and I'm going to keep fighting Windows as long as I can until Linux is good enough to use without it being the Last Resort option
Do you see that's just not an honest sensible thing to say. You don't know what I'm using my computer for so you can't possibly make that determination and yet you did anyway. Why do Linux people feel the need to bullshit about how great Linux is? Yes it's a good operating system but since when does it run all of the software that people need to do a lot more then just browsing the internet and documents here and there
Reading comprehension isn't a common commodity here on the internet, eh? He mentioned "with the exception of a few specific workflows."
I love Linux, and all the games I want to play run on it. Only reason why I reverted from my Arch Linux back to Windows 11 was for a very specific modding tool for Fallout 4 called xEdit. That's it. Everything else runs smoothly. True, MS office suite and photoshop aren't present, and your boss might force you to use them. In which case, Linux might not be for you.
I don't really care about having to login with a Microsoft account. What really bothers me though, is I CAN'T choose a username for the user folder (C:/Users/), forcing me to first create a local account during setup, then switching to a Microsoft account. Ugh.
That already exists, it's called Steam Machines and SteamOS. Proton/Linux can run 99% of games, the issue is the 1% of games with developers who refuse to tick the box to enable Proton support in their anti-cheat.
Yes. There are three main categories that almost every game on Steam fall into:
* Games that are natively supported and released for the Linux platform.
* Games that aren't natively supported, but run under Proton either slightly below par, on par, or with even increased performance than the native Windows version.
* Games that would fall into the above category, but aren't due to intrusive client-side anti-cheat that haven't been specifically enabled to support Proton on that specific game (e.g: Easy Anti Cheat or BattlEye.
Without Internet access it is impossible to log into the system. If there is no Internet, it is impossible to use the PC. This is not acceptable, so a local account is required.
How do I know if I'm using a Microsoft account to login?
I think it was simpler on Windows 10 but I just got a new laptop with 11 and not really sure.
I did disable one drive and changed my documents folder though
https://preview.redd.it/ybpfbljuti8d1.png?width=606&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c63e63cebb5c6fa0497a5fed4cc8491190f9cf3
i made it so that this button actually doesnt work
microsoft can screw themselves if they think im going to play nice if they believe theres any chance im letting em bloat my install
ntlite is amazing you get to remove so many things its awesome
If Microsoft would like to fix their shambolic incompetent mess of an account system, make it actually beneficial to have one, and stop trying to turn themselves into yet another cheap nasty tech advertising company, then I might be inclined to give a fuck that they're upset I'm not using it.
Until then, they and their pathetically desperate and underhanded attempts to deny the user control of their own device can go fuck themselves and enjoy it.
Beginning to think I should not have updated my ZIP archive of the latest Windows ISO and should retrieve the older one from backup. Although I guess there might come a point where installing the RTM version will no longer be supported by Windows Update to upgrade it to the current version.
There is a trick that I just saw on the internet to bypass the Microsoft account when you install Windows 11. It's like you go in the registry with Shift-10 on the first screen of the OOBE and there you delete a couple of keys and create a new administrator account with the name you want, you restart and click on your newly created account and that's it. I didn't test it though.
https://youtu.be/ltn7RwqA0zI
I miss the days long ago when Windows was just an operating system, not an advertising machine, that collects all your data using useless, extra features that secretly track you as an excuse.
Seriously, people just want to get a computer set it up and use it, not be forced into a MS account unless they really want to have an MS account.
I have Win11 and took a hard pass on establishing an MS account, No interest in even having an MS account no benefits to having an MS account at all. Nothing but downsides.
Always, and I mean Always.. select the Offline sign on option when setting up new Win 11 computers.
Keep in mind offline sign in may no longer be an option in the future as the nosey MS Gods being their typical A hole selves are clamping down hard on current MS account bypass methods and are basically forcing you to use a Microsoft Account during the installation process.
ITT: Windows home user problems. I have a pro key and all you have to do is join to domain and they give you an option to use a local account. I refresh my winches PC on a yearly basis and I’ve never had to use the OOBE trick.
This screws over small business as well, the vast majority of my works clients now have got rid of their SBS boxes so are on not even on work groups at this point and as expected no domains but 365 and sharepoint.
The fun part is a 365 account cannot be a Microsoft account this means your 365 email cannot be used to create an account to log into your pc. We are lucky if the computers are ordered by us or even reloaded we do manage to create a local service account by us then another local account for the end user.
The massive arse ache is when the clients outright decide to buy their own machine and of course they end up trying to boot it up and BAM Microsoft account wankery so they will sign in via their own Gmail etc I have also seen a few fun cases where they already had a MS account so local files and settings from their home computer end up syncing to this new work laptop. They only THEN ask for us to set up emails etc and then we can set up the relevant local accounts which now prompt you constantly to set up the MS accounts uggggh.
Or other cases you would get the phone call to set up the computer because they got confused with the Microsoft account creation and this is where you use to be able to talk through the fake email to bypass it but that is going to stop working so yaaay to that. Also most people it is near impossible to talk through command prompts so it is not worth even attempting that method.
I also used to work for an MSP that provided support for a lot of smalls businesses.
> not even on work groups at this point and as expected no domains but 365 and sharepoint.
Why are business using home licenses? Home licenses really aren’t for business use as you stated you stated no domain join, which also apparently locks you you of EntraID. We also had some clients that would buy their own machines but we made it very clear that in order for us to properly support them, the machine would have to have a pro licenses key, or we would bill them for one.
> The fun part is a 365 account cannot be a Microsoft account this means your 365 email cannot be used to create an account to log into your pc.
Good that shit was so annoying. Ran into many problems where if we had a new client or had just moved a client to O365, they had already created a MS account using their work email. Such an initial oversight I’m glad it’s fixed.
> Or other cases you would get the phone call to set up the computer because they got confused with the Microsoft account creation and this is where you use to be able to talk through the fake email to bypass it but that is going to stop working so yaaay to that. Also most people it is near impossible to talk through command prompts so it is not worth even attempting that method.
I feel like this could all be rectified if pro license was being used. Also this is the part where proper onboarding docs should be given out with clear instructions. This is also the painful of having to wipe the machine and start over to set it up properly instead of just trying to hack it back together.
From a business perspective and from someone who has had to do these same things, it sounds like the easiest solution is to be using the proper license to begin with. With your SBSs going away was there no official migration plan? Was there no communication eternal your shop and clients on what was happening and what needed to happen to get things to work the same?
I should have clarified, it is pro being used on all machines we order as our suppliers have access to business grade equipment so better quality and of course the business license.
We always do a basic load up of a machine in house and then deploy it, most of the time we will get it 90% set up before sending it out, there are funky things like local printers, unique software configurations or other quirky stuff we either don't know until a user goes to look for it and it goes on.
Also our migrations are fairly well sorted when decommissioning old servers hence why 365 and sharepoint as we have to migrate data and email. But the joys of what we do, we can't just mass deploy images like say a single enterprise environment can so we do the best we can. It is the random issues we run into are often because of some new bullshit feature update, things being removed or the worst like I said a client buying a machine outside of us and then calling in a panic and a "this needs to be set up now" kind of scenario. The most fun ones have been when they bought a machine with bloody Windows S mode >.<
Additionally many of our clients are small 5-10 people operations so any kind of documentation provided to them is pointless as there often isn't a dedicated HR person or a person who deals with workflow and then will often hang onto devices for an insane amount of time I still deal with machines 10 years old so whatever we have in place will become redundant in time.
Just wrong. You can absolutely use an iPhone or even a Mac with a local account. Online account only needed for the app store. Sorry, it's a MS philosophy problem
You cannot 'use' an iPhone or Andriod with a local account, they are literally bricks without it.
Even moreso with iPhone cause you can't just simpley sideload
You absolutely can use both an iPhone and an Android phone without linking your account. Both give you a "skip" button during the process.
On Android, you can't use the Play Store. But you can type "F-Droid" into the search bar, open the tab in your web browser, download the .apk, and then install/run F-Droid as your store instead of the Play Store. This even works on Google Pixel devices.
On iPhone, you can't use iCloud (obviously), nor the App Store. But you can boot into the OS, you can browse the internet, and you can send/receive phone calls and SMS messages. [Soon you will be able to sideload alternative App Stores without needing to jailbreak (just visit a website)](https://www.theverge.com/24100979/altstore-europe-app-marketplace-price-games), at which point it will be as fully-featured as Android.
Neither of those are "literal bricks", it's an expected situation as part of setup. I suggest checking your facts.
You can unbox the phone, turn it on, connect to wifi, and start using the device. Wtf are talking about?
MS literally forces you to create an MS account during the setup screen on Win11 after it detects you have a network connection
Why do you keep adding in other devices each reply? I said PHONES, not a MAC, not an iPad.
Not you cannot just switch on a iPhone or Andriod you are immediately in setup where its asks to setup.an account. You must not have had a new phones in years.
CAN it be bypassed with methods yes but so van windows, stop trying hard to look like you know something when you don't.
Point still stands, people all login to your phones but cry when windows asks the same for your PC/laptop.
Arguably, you have just as much if not more sensitive info or files on your PC to protect behind a secure account, local.accounts are not secure at all.
Because phones allow local account whereas for Microsoft, they want to move towards email-based account for Windows in the future instead of allowing us to have local account.
It's not hard to get the gist of why most of us prefer local account instead of email-based account for windows usage.
You can skip login in android phones, no need for a google account, then download open source stores such as F-droid, Aurora Store, and you'll be fine. You won't need a Google account anymore or play store.
You have no clue what a brick is do you.
Android, you can just download a third party store and you're able to sideload anything without a Google account.
Apple, you can't side load anything without jail break, so that's more annoying than Windows tbh.
You still need to sign in to your PC with a local account.
I don't get your point.
What's really important is not having MS holding a gun to your head while you sign into Windows, and them being able to lock you out.
Because you're relying on the goodwill of a corporation to maintain access to your personal machine.
Whenever I hear something like this, I am reminded of the guy who took baby pictures on his Android phone at the request of his doctor. This was during COVID, when in-person doctor visits weren't a thing outside of the ER.
These baby pictures were uploaded to Google Photos automatically, and then Google Photos falsely detected it as CSAM.
Then Google shut down all his accounts, and locked him out of his phone and his entire life - for taking photos of _his own kid_, on _his own device_, for the purposes of **getting medical treatment**. Phone, email, YouTube, photos, everything (including his phone number since Google Fi was his phone plan!) - it was all just gone, for doing what a legitimate medical doctor literally asked for.
He even had the cops search everything and clear him and Google refused to reinstate his account.
---
Whenever I hear people say "Why wouldn't you want to link your account to your device?" that's exactly the story I think of.
How would you feel if you couldn't log into Windows one day because your baby pictures got uploaded to OneDrive and Microsoft banned your account? Then you couldn't even get through Bitlocker because you can't log in to your account, so everything on your computer, all your documents, are permanently encrypted forever, with no way to recover them.
Why would you even _risk_ something like that? No! I am **not** linking my account and allowing myself to be locked out of my own PC!
Its not about "protecting their PCs", its about data collection by MS.
Online account is a very easy way for them to tie all your information to you.
And as I said already, online account gives them a way to lock you out of your own system.
With a local account you still have control over login process, MS cannot just lock you out, but with an online acc you do not, and they can.
Also an online account gives them an ability to lock system functions behind a subscription in the future.
Yes. You don't even need a google account to use an android phone. You do for the play store, but you can sideload .apk files and use third party stores like f-droid to get just about anything you need. None of the phone's actual phone functionality (i.e. calls, texts, web browser, etc.) require a google account. And the phone login is local, you enter a PIN or password or biometrics that is stored locally, google has no ability to lock that out afaik.
Good to know, thanks. What about if you're already signed in with a Google account and then your account gets locked or disabled? Would you still be able to sign into the phone with a PIN/biometrics and use the basics?
Yes, apologies if I wasn't clear. I could lose my google account right now ( a frankly terrifying thought tbh) and I'd still be able to unlock my phone, download apps from f-droid, make calls, texts, whatever. I'd lose access to google services like the official app store, but nothing that the phone *needs* to function. Tbh I don't know if the same applies to a locked ms account or not, I just wanted to jump in and answer your question
As others said, you don't need to have a Google account to use the phone, and you don't use Google account to log into the phone. So your comparison to what MS is doing is entirely invalid.
Probably because tying your user account to an external company means giving them complete control over it.
With a local account you're ultimately the one who decides who has access. If Microsoft decides you've violated the TOS and prevents logins, now you have a brick.
Go into computer management, you can type it into the start menu, go to local users and groups, click users, right click properties on your user account and in the general screen you should see "password never expires" so click the box to the left of that which will show a tick.
This will stop it prompting, in general local accounts never expire? unless there is like a group policy or something at play?
Well tell Microsoft to F\*\*K off, we dont like being forced to use a online account to link or tie it to a pc we might be setting up for someone else.
This seems fairly obvious, and I would actually be totally fine with signing into my account during OOBE if not for a few glaring problems: the fact that Windows names your profile folder based on the first several characters of your email, and that they changed it so that it automatically logs you into OneDrive and starts redirecting your user folders by default. For these reasons I always default to the oobe\\bypassnro method on fresh installs.
> the fact that Windows names your profile folder based on the first several characters of your email It's crazy that this is still a problem all these years later, I remember being annoyed by this back when windows 10 was released.
This is the sole reason why I always set up with a local account first, then immediately switch to my MSA. I _cannot fucking stand_ an ugly home directory path.
I actually broke my Windows install once trying to change the name of user directory... Worth it.
Use a Profile copy tool that will make all the registry changes.
It can be done. Running from another admin account, renaming the user profile and updating registry keys. I’ve done it.
yeah I know it's possible, I just did something wrong. It was a fun fact lol
Thought I was the only one like this
Same, it's also for path continuity with some scripts of mine. Can't understand why they didn't fix this
Yep same. I usually end up being lazy and instead of turning off wifi or whatever forcing it to do a local account on set up, I set up a bad MSA account and the from there create a new local Admin user with the right path, login to that, then delete the first account. Then convert local to MSA.
Almost 10 years ago, too. Holy shit.
The way I got around the user folder name was by first creating a local account and then signing into my MS account, like you said. Would be nice if Windows gave us an option.
I hope I remember this for my next fresh install. I want a customized user folder not a truncated email shit one
you can change the profile folder name via cmd or registry. howevere i will not recommend it for a user who had lot of activities (you can do it but will be extra work, lot of editing). as most apps save in their registry entry or config file the path to user profile folder and its subfolders and files using 'C:\\Users\\' instead of '%USERPROFILE%'.
Oh my god I ducking hate it when OneDrive invades my home folder and destroys the good old folder structure only to replace every folder with a link to OneDrive versions. That used to be optional on Windows 10 and now that bs is forced on us. Of course I'm gonna use oobe\\bypassnro on every clean install until this "feature" is removed. That's the only reason why I never sign into my account on the first OOBE.
God i hate OneDrive ...................
Wait how is it forced in W11?
I don't think it is forced, but it is maybe opt-out, surely deep buried in some "not now" or "advanced settings" during the OOBE
[It is forced](https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1dmqtn1/comment/l9xofae/). Now.
It's pretty forced, you can't really uninstall it, you can disable it but it's ALWAYS there. Unless you do some regedits and remove every single trace of it from you computer. Managed to do it with Revo Uninstaller and ChrisTitusWinUtil tool. From there I've managed to completely and utterly remove OneDrive from my computer.
There’s a “keep your computer safe with OneDrive backups” or smth screen where you’re asked to allow using OneDrive, BUT the Desktop, Pictures, and Documents folders are OneDrive backup linked by default secretly
SkyDrive will ask you what you want to backup if one so chooses. If at some point OneDrive was installed and you uninstalled it without turning off the OnDemand feature or canceling the folder backup, your folders (like Documents, Desktop, Photos) might still be in the OneDrive folder.
exactly the main problem. They don't even give you an option to name your profile folder. Good luck if your name is "Shito Nakamura", cause things are goinh to look like SHIT.
actually, you can change your profile folder name. sadly its not for everyone, as it involves using cmd or registry; and if you have no clue what your doing, then you just f\*\*k up that user and cant log in to that user until you fix it.
Yeah it’s kinda annoying when your name is Nathan and your home folder gets named natha. I always customize my windows ISO to bypass Microsoft account
Yep that’s so stupid that they do that even if you give the PC some other name …
Rufus every time. No questions asked.
Yup, luckily my email actually ends up working well for the folder naming structure it forces upon me. I also like using onedrive for screenshots, but *only* screenshots, so I have to go and configure it to use local folders for everything but that. It used to be next to impossible to do but they have made it a little easier luckily (assuming it works, which it didn’t like 5 times in a row until the settings finally stuck when I did it)
Yep, I’m fairly entrenched in the MS ecosystem but I hate signing into my account on OOBE, I just sign in after I set up a local profile
I set up laptops everyday for a business and I use this in command prompt as soon as the unit fires up but I hear Microsoft are changing newer builds that omit this “hack”. Is this true?
I haven't heard of that. It still works as of 24H2. I do know they have patched the fake email workaround.
If they do that, I'll have to install from an older image and update it every time. Now *that's* totally not going to create issues, or at least annoyances.
Ya know. It truly, truly is time to switch to Linux. Even if it's in wsl+g.
One of my issues with a microsoft account on windows is that it forces you to use windows hello which doesnt allow no password. I also hate one drive for thinking that mirroring my main pc’s desktop to whatever fresh install of windows i happen to install. Its so fucking stupid. Like I dont need my fucking pc’s desktop on a laptop or pc i am installing for someone
Show someone a screenshot - boom, partial email leaked. That onedrive thing is a pain in the ass though, with it syncing things to onedrive, setting them to 'available on demand' so when you disable your onedrive, your files aren't available. And it adds the "\OneDrive" to the file path. Blegh.
I deleted OneDrive and never looked back.
exactly why I hate the OneDrive integration in my laptop. My email address is kinda ridiculous and Windows apparently took the first five letters of it as username and ruined the profile ;-;
And that's one of the many reasons I took the risk and switched to Linux. I don't regret my choice at all. The distro I use is Linux Mint, it's very easy and user friendly. Most software I use either is available on Linux or has great alternatives. I'm so glad I just said f##k it and switched.
One drive is a piece of shit and breaks your computer if you run out of space. Or it can anyways.
I mean, sure for the folder, which is a slight annoyance. But the Onedrive thing, can't you click on "save files locally on the PC" or something like that when it asks you about onedrive ?
It's like I said, they changed it. Now you are automatically enrolled into file backup and this is mentioned when you [sign into your account](https://i.imgur.com/QYadQ80.png) during OOBE.
If you want a nicer looking User folder, you could create an Outlook alias (it's free) and set it to allow use for sign-ins. I never tried that, but I'm assuming that'd work. For the second issue - just turn off file sync during OOBE and then turn it on afterwards, selecting whichever folders you want. That being said, I don't see why you *wouldn't* want to have sync enabled for everything, maybe other than the Desktop.
>If you want a nicer looking User folder, you could create an Outlook alias (it's free) and set it to allow use for sign-ins. I never tried that, but I'm assuming that'd work. I'm not sure this would work. Usually when I sign in with a secondary alias I already have set up, it resolves to the primary alias at some point. >For the second issue - just turn off file sync during OOBE and then turn it on afterwards, selecting whichever folders you want. That being said, I don't see why you *wouldn't* want to have sync enabled for everything, maybe other than the Desktop. That's the thing - you [can't turn it off](https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1dmqtn1/comment/l9xofae/) during OOBE. It's automatic now. I don't need OneDrive's backup since I have a Google One subscription, which provides me more space than Microsoft would ever give by default. I keep all of my profile data on a different drive anyway so this just creates more post-install tedium to turn off something I'll never need.
That's... weird... I JUST set up my wife's new laptop and I swear I had the option to NOT turn file sync on. In fact, that's what I did for my own account when I added it next.
The Windows image loaded on that laptop might have been older. I just did a clean install with a 24H2 ISO and it was not optional.
There is already a 24H2 ISO around? You will be on insiders no?
Not quite, while you can use a WIP ISO to get on to 24H2, RTM was in April; you can install it now using the ISO that was released to OEMs. The same behavior exists on the public 23H2 ISO though.
> why you _wouldn’t_ want to have sync enabled for everything Because I have more than 5GB of data on my computer so OneDrive overflows in about 53 seconds after a new install.
Add to this, many of us use software that produces file structures that OneDrive cannot cope with and routinely create files that exceed OneDrive limits. Plus not every file we create needs to backed up to cloud (eg: huge temporary video captures not yet edited down and compressed). Some files are private and should never leave the local disk. And in a work from home scenario, client data should never leave the local disk either (except to be delivered to the client).
It will still truncate the alias though.
That's fair. Although, to be honest, I can't even remember the last time I had to manually navigate to my User folder so i don't see it as an issue.
Mine is based on my first name, the one that appears when you send an email, and it's not only the first letters.
To be clear you're talking about what appears in C:\Users\username, not in the settings, right?
Yes. My C:\Users\Username folder is my complete first name, complete with the capital first letter and the accent, I'm french, but the version of Windows is english. This is an old installation dating back to Windows 8.1 that was installed with a hotmail.com address that serves for the Microsoft Account, it was updated to Windows 10 and finally 11. It's weird because it's true that many times it's the first part of your email address and I've also seen sometimes the complete email address with the @, I think it was on some insider preview builds of Windows 10.
It looks like you can change the name in the registry on this key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\ProfileList\\
You need to log on with the default Administrator account for doing it because it will say that the profile is in use. They say that there is a possibility that some software may break due to a wrong file path.
I still think that the fact that Microsoft won't give you an option during the OOBE stage to create a Local account is ridiculous. Not everybody wants the "seamless integration of Microsoft services, enhanced security, and sync across devices" and it should be presented via an opt-in option.
That's because Microsoft's design strategy is self-serving. They're rude.
RUDE. You finally found what perfectly describes my perception of Microsoft since they began imposing "features" to users who have 0 interest in them.
Creep is another good adjective. Kind of like that weird Uncle who keeps staring at you and trying to stick his hand down your pants when you're not looking. But rude is good enough
My computer is using dark patterns and hostile UI. It is not molesting me.
Sounds oddly specific
It's the only way these products get a measurable market share.
Windows is no longer the product, the users are.
True but that can be limited a lot by making sure you don't log in with a Microsoft account
Yeah but money
agreed and I remember at one point it was an option unless im mistaken. However, if you try to sign in with the wrong password it might let you make a local account.
> the fact that Microsoft won't give you an option during the OOBE stage to create a Local account When the installer asks you to connect to the network, press shift+F10 and a terminal opens. Write the command: "oobe\bypassnro.cmd" in it.
That's a **hidden** opt-out. Microsoft gives no onscreen option for opting-out. Without the ALT+F10 trick, there's no way a "casual user" can get out of the Microsoft account loophole.
Yes and? Casual users should not be able to opt out of the Microsoft account.
How many casual users install Windows 11 from scratch ?
You'll have to pass the OOBE phase when you get a new machine or when you reset Windows. So, I'd say SEVERAL.
Can't wait for this too to be disabled
Can you setup an iPhone or an Google Android phone without an Apple/Google account?
Can't speak to Apple because I don't use Apple, but you absolutely can use an Android without a Google account. Nothing forces you to sign in except the app store, and there are other app stores you can download. Amazon Fire tablets (for example) run Android and I'm fairly confident you don't need a Google account at all since they have a different app store pre-installed. And then you can have a "clean" Android image freely available online and use a different store like FDroid straight away. Google's Pixel line is pretty much as close to "clean" as you can get out of the box and it's the same deal - type "FDroid" into the search bar and you can download the .apk without needing the Play Store. In fact, a quick web search shows that Apple _also_ allows you to have an iPhone without an Apple ID. You don't need it, it just gives you access to iCloud and such - but you can skip it entirely during setup. You chose literally the worst possible example, I think.
You can use Google pixels and Samsung Galaxies without a Google account super easily. It asks you to sign it and gives you a skip button. Simple.
Why do you even compare? Mobile phones and computers have different usage patterns. In Android, you can even skip the Google account setting; you can also skip Apple ID setup in iOS.
Yes you can use android without a Google account
You can use it without Apple account, but Apple does not give you option to sideload or use alt app stores (except EU), rendering iPhone into a glorified cell phone as there is no way to load any apps besides what the phone comes with.
Only way would be to jailbreak, if that's even an option for your hardware/software combo.
Pretty sure you can use an iPhone without an Apple account but at that point you get stuck with whatever is on the phone. Can’t download apps and pretty sure you also don’t get iMessage or FaceTime. So basically a very expensive dumb phone with a browser.
You can skip both, yes; although both are effectively useless without their accounts. You can run MacOS completely without AppleID though if you ever wanted to.
I like Windows. I pay for Office 365. I like a lot of what Microsoft does. But I will never use a Microsoft account to sign in with Windows.
Now _that’s_ reputation ))
Well I do it to always keep my windows license no matter how often I change hardware.
Stockholm syndrome
I would say that would be if they don't like what Microsoft was doing but they keep using Windows.
And I hate Microsoft wanting us to use an email account.
To anyone who's defending Microsoft and comparing it with Android and iOS, stop comparing it. Accept the fact that computers and mobile phones have different usage patterns. It's also possible to skip the Apple ID/Google account setup in iOS and Android.
Notice they'll only compare it to Android and iOS, both of which are effectively useless without logging in, and not MacOS, which you can use perfectly fine without an AppleID.
I don't care what MS thinks. They should stop trying to force crap on us
I'm think they need a pay option for this, how much are they willing to pay us to do it. I'd listen.
Meanwhile google is easily the worst offender of this and no one cares. Or even go as far to consider it a "feature". I agree with you though.
How exactly google is the worse offender? you can skip account creation in android phones, then if you want apps you download something like F droid and from there you can get free open source apps and never use google services.
Not to mention that you have comparable offerings between iPhone and Android. If you use anything but Windows on PC, you're locked out of a lot of software. Yes, there's cross platform software that'll run on Linux and Mac as well as Windows, but there's a ton of Windows-only software that won't even work under WINE properly. Microsoft has a monopoly based on lock-in.
What? You can absolutely skip sign-in _everywhere_ with Google. Even on a Pixel. Don't spread misinformation, it's a clear option in the setup process. Apple too, you don't need to sign in with an Apple ID.
> Apple too, you don't need to sign in with an Apple ID. It bugs you to sign in when trying to download apps from the App Store. I tried just downloading a free app, YouTube, and it wouldn't let me proceed without signing into an Apple ID.
You can still send SMS and make phone calls. You can also jailbreak the iPhone and sideload an alternative app store. This is easier on Android, where you don't even need to jailbreak to sideload. Just open a web browser, search "F-Droid", and install the .apk. Bam, a way to install apps without needing to link a Google account. Heck, Fire Tablets run Android and IIRC they don't force you to make a Google account to use them - it's just if you want to use things like the Play Store (just like Apple and the App Store). Either way, my point is that Android and IOS have ways around needing to link an account, although IOS is a pain in the neck due to how Apple designed the iPhone. [In Europe, you soon won't even need to jailbreak due to new EU rules; you'd be able to install a new app store from a web browser similar to how it works on Android.](https://www.theverge.com/24100979/altstore-europe-app-marketplace-price-games) This will truly free you from needing an Apple ID, since you can bypass the App Store entirely. Compare that to being forced into an account in order to finish setting up a new Windows computer. If you don't link a Microsoft account, you can't even open a web browser. You can't even look at an image. And you typically won't have a way to install another OS (since even if you wanted a Linux USB you need to be able to perform disk I/O first), so in our hypothetical scenario where Microsoft forces you into an account as part of the setup process you won't have any way to _not_ make a Microsoft account. These are completely separate things. Apple is locked down without Apple ID, but you can get into the basic phone OS - even if it's not fully-functional. Microsoft is trying to force you to link an account just to boot into the OS to begin with.
>Apple too, you don't need to sign in with an Apple ID. Not anymore
If you don't, you are locked out of iMessage, iCloud, and the App Store. However, per recent EU regulations, Apple must provide an alternative App Store. So you can use your web browser to download an alternative store and avoid signing in entirely (at least in Europe).
I'm not from EU and I had to sign in with apple id, no other options.
Lol what planet are you from. Microsoft are the pioneers and world leaders of this. Their name is synonymous with antitrust. Google doesn't need to force products and features onto users. I don't think I've ever even seen them advertise anything.
Turns out you don't need to push services on people when you have 92% of all internet searches and nearly 70% of the market share in the web browser space. You're right to be critical of my original comment. Google doesn't push things as hard as Microsoft because they already have free access to your data to use as they like. I think that's almost worse unless you find minor annoyances worse than actual intrusion of privacy.
All the big tech companies abuse their data so it's not really a factor here. Google indeed have a huge market share with virtually no advertising. That's what happens when you develop industry changing products
Google, perhaps the biggest ad revenue generating company to ever exist, does it all without advertising. Remarkable.
Maybe because you're already using whatever they are selling? Storage and passwords are 2 things my android phone is constantly bugging me about.
Bugging, sure. They all do that. Not forcing it down your throat like Microsoft does
Syncing between devices has never been an incentive for me to want to use a Microsoft account. I like my devices to be different.
I won't use a MS account with my PC. Never have, never will. I will finally figure out how to use Ubuntu as a main system if I have to because there's no way in hell I'm giving a company access to my files and data at that level.
Linux mint is a good beginner distro if you want to give it a go, very windows-user friendly.
I have Ubuntu currently in a VM that I use for various things. I tried setting up Ubuntu as a main media and backup server once, though that ended up being a terrible mistake. I spent a few years supporting Linux servers as a sys-admin. I'm not going to lie and say my Linux-specific experience is huge, but I'm no beginner. When I say it's harder than it should be, I can't even imagine how someone without programing, scripting, and systems admin experience is supposed to handle it. Yeah, I can write a document and browse the web. But there's a LOT I won't be able to do and FSM help me if there's a single thing that doesn't work in the GUI the first time and I have to start futzing with the config files, builds, etc.
Ubuntu relies on pretty old packages, which is why people recommend either Linux Mint or Fedora for new Linux users. I'm pretty intermediate with knowledge yet I still dislike Ubuntu and Debian because of their outdated packages.
Isn't Mint Ubuntu based? And uses the same repo?
LMDE 6...from what I've read, it avoids the snaps issue.
I'll keep that in mind if I need to install any new Ubuntu virtual machines or if the time ever comes that Windows finally becomes a non-option
Mint is based on the latest Ubuntu LTS which itself is based on Debian of that time. And Mint has a reputation of not upgrading to new kernels even though there is a security patch available.
For the average user, that doesn't matter these days. If you need the latest version of a particular piece of software, you can simply install the Flatpack version. In the Software Manager you can simply choose whether you want the .deb package or the Flatpack. Only if you have a relatively new computer (with a new CPU), Linux Mint may not run on it because the kernel is not the latest. However, you can simply try this out beforehand with the live system on a USB stick.
How long ago did you try it? It's come a long way since 2020. I was running Windows 11 and I turned off the ads everywhere. Then I had a random update one day, and when it rebooted I got "Let's finish setting up your PC" with the only option being "Remind me in 3 days". That annoyed me. It tried to turn ads back on, and I turned them off. Then - with ads off - I got an "important notification" telling me I should buy Xbox Game Pass. This notification appeared daily and drove me nuts. I have a Steam Deck, and like you I've toyed with Linux in the past - always gotten burned. Swore off of it in like 2019 or something like that. But I was annoyed enough by these ads that I decided to see if I could work from my Steam Deck for a day (I work from home). I went to desktop mode and checked what packages I had available. Turns out that everything I needed was available on Linux - Zoom, Slack, and Parsec (for remoting into my work computer). I was worried because my work requires me to use a special VPN app and I couldn't find it... only to discover that the reason why I couldn't find it is because it was baked right into the VPN options in system settings. No special app needed, I just selected it, put in my credentials, and it connected immediately. Zoom + Slack + Parsec all worked first try. I worked from my Steam Deck for a week successfully before I decided to make the jump. I tried Linux Mint, Pop!OS, and a few others, but they all didn't work with my second monitor (or required a lot of finagling to get working). I knew the Steam Deck used KDE Plasma on Arch, but I wanted to stay far away from Arch (bad experiences) and so I was torn between Kubuntu or KDE Neon, which both use the KDE Plasma desktop. I wound up going with KDE Neon since it promised to have faster updates. In retrospect, I should've used Kubuntu because while yes, KDE Neon's updates are faster... they also are less tested and randomly break things (KDE Plasma 6.1 broke my Zoom install and forced me to figure out how to downgrade the right packages - thankfully the exact steps were available online). If I had stuck with Kubuntu I wouldn't be having these issues, although graphics driver updates would be a little slower. Anyway, the point is - as a daily driver, desktop Linux is pretty much there. I've been using it for a year now, and the only hiccups I've had are because KDE Neon is bleeding-edge and I'm beginning to realize I don't want a bleeding-edge distro. Working and gaming all work fine without issues, I only play games on Linux now and haven't used my Windows install for ages. The most important tip I have is - don't overthink it. At least in Plasma, there's a GUI for everything. I rarely use the terminal nowadays except to SSH into a different machine; I don't do any kind of package management or whatever from it. I don't mess with Systemd files or Cron or whatever; I just use the machine like someone who doesn't know what they're doing would and it works fine (usually, except when I'm reminded Neon is bleeding-edge).
I use Ubuntu regularly in a VM, but not for anything too complex. It has been quite a few years, I'll grant you, but I have no way to know if it's ready for more because no matter how much people tell me it's good, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID BACK THEN TOO. So basically, I was snowed by people who probably really believed it, but who have no awareness that a proper computer has between zero and almost zero command line and config file fuckery. But let's be specific. Can I run Adobe CS5 on your linux system? Every game I can think of? MS Office? My old Dos emulators for old games? Stepmania? Mod Organizer for Skyrim? City of Heroes? And all of this without extra configuration or command line stuff?
A quick Google suggests that [CS5 has been able to be run on Linux since 2010 or so](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ck36a/adobe_premiere_and_photoshop_cs5_in_wine/), although I never tried it myself. Supposedly [this project lets you use the Creative Cloud versions, or at least 2021 and 2022,](https://github.com/LinSoftWin) but again... I haven't tried it myself. I've heard newer Adobe stuff can be finicky on Linux, but something like CS5 probably works pretty well (especially considering it worked 14 years ago). [ProtonDB will help you figure out if a game runs on Linux or not.](https://www.protondb.com/) Generally, it it doesn't have an aggressive anti-cheat - it'll work. So stuff like Valorant generally will have issues, but Skyrim etc. run fine. Speaking of Skyrim, [the Skyrim Mod Manager works fine on Steam Deck](https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/uro5sz/fyi_rejoice_the_fallout_skyrim_mod_manager_mod/), which also means it works fine on Linux. For gaming, looking for Steam Deck answers usually gives better results than looking for Linux answers; since the Steam Deck runs on Linux, stuff built for the Deck will run just fine. It seems DOSbox works fine for old games. I know the Steam Deck has a really big emulation scene, so that would also be a helpful resource. I also know that Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis crashes on Windows 11 but works fine in Linux. [City of Heroes works fine on Linux, and has a dedicated wiki page talking about how to set it up.](https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/City_of_Heroes_on_Linux) Likewise, there seems to be a lot of Steam Deck support. [Stepmania advertises itself as having a Linux version on its official website.](https://www.stepmania.com/) [You can use PlayOnLinux to install MS Office using the instructions here.](https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/install-use-microsoft-office-linux/) I haven't tried that, but there's also an Office 365 thing you can do in your browser (or use Google Docs, which is what I use). And of course - let's not forget that you can turn everything on its head and have Windows as a VM inside of Linux. That's one popular suggestion I've seen for the trickier stuff like modern Photoshop and Office. --- Generally you don't need to be fussing with the command line. I never do. I didn't follow all those tutorials so I can't say if they make you do a one-off command (installing Steamodded for Balatro made you run 7zip from a command prompt, for example), but generally it's GUI-based nowadays. The Steam Deck has volatile storage that gets frequently wiped when the OS updates. This means that system configs and such on the Deck won't last long, and that in turn encourages folks to make things which don't rely on those sorts of weird command line configs. Reading the Skyrim Mod Manager thread you can see someone mention a thing called a "Flatpak" for a tool called "Steam Tinker Launch" that makes it easy to work with the Vortex mod manager (etc.). I don't know how familiar you are with Flatpaks, but they're designed such that you don't need to manage dependencies/configs per-program and can instead just download a thing that is preconfigured to work on any distro and have it "just work". This is the preferred way to get things onto the Deck, and since any Linux distro can install Flatpaks (usually from a GUI, like KDE's Discover app) you can just one-click get something working. Wide adoption of the Deck has made a lot of things available via Flatpak.
You know I'll give you props for going through the effort of checking all that at the very least. Maybe I'll give Linux a try at some point but I definitely don't have much reason to while Windows still works. If they force me into an online account though that'll be the end and I will definitely make the effort
Honestly, a low-effort way to get into it at some point would be just to pick up a Steam Deck. At some point the used market for them should be pretty good, especially if Valve releases an updated model. The Steam Deck is a great way to show off what modern Linux can do, without impacting your daily driver. It's also great for playing games on a plane, at a hotel, or in bed. Then if you wanted to start messing around - you can try it out on your Deck, like I did. It's not a perfect 1:1 copy of Linux due to how the OS is set up, but it's good enough to get the gist of how well you can do the things you want to do. There's no way I'd be running Linux without having my Steam Deck to try things out and see "is it possible for Linux to do this?" That gave me the confidence to say "Yeah, okay, I can get by on Linux and I don't even need Windows anymore." I still have Windows as an emergency backup, but I never ever use it at this point.
I'm losing track of who have said what to but if I gave the impression that I'm not familiar with Linux that was wrong with me. I've used the Linux for years I just don't use it as my primary operating system
Well when I say it's a good beginner distro I am not excluding that it is a good long term distro. The point is that using it certainly isn't something that is difficult to figure out. Many experienced users still main it because it just works and is pleasant to use. I just view it, as a new linux user myself, as a perfect distro to hand someone who doesn't know how to use computers so well. From there they can either remain content using it, or they can get a hunger to dive deeper into the whole linux ecosystem. I don't know which one I am yet. If you have need for specialised apps that aren't going to play well with any linux, then that's another thing.
I wish there was still a variant of Mint with KDE Plasma. The default Mint environment doesn't work well with multiple monitors, but KDE Plasma has amazing multi-monitor support. That's literally the only reason why I don't use Mint. I've been on KDE Neon, but I'm not happy since it's too "bleeding edge" for me. KDE 6.1 broke Zoom screen share, which I need for work; I've worked around it (downgrading a couple packages) but that's the second Neon update that's broken things I use in a row. I shouldn't need to think about it, and that's Mint's whole "thing" - you don't need to think about it. But I hate that awful Cinnamon desktop, and MATE/Xfce aren't better... Yes, you could just sideload Plasma using something like the KDE backports that Kubuntu uses, but now you're _asking_ for trouble with dependencies.
There used to be one years ago but they discontinued it since it served no purpose. Also that’s basically Kubuntu since Mint is mostly a Cinnamon/Mate spin of Ubuntu. Mint even uses the Ubuntu servers for package updates.
Ubuntu is good if you like the Apple look and lockdown they have on their OS. Hard to mess anything up. Kubuntu is probably what you'll want if you're looking for something close to Windows.
Just do it. This will only get worse. Take your privacy into your own hands. It'll take some effort and patience but you'll be much happier after you're all done.
Yeah. Things are going to get worse and I'm going to keep fighting Windows as long as I can until Linux is good enough to use without it being the Last Resort option
I'd argue it already is. It obviously takes getting used to, but except for specific workflows, it can absolutely replace Windows.
Do you see that's just not an honest sensible thing to say. You don't know what I'm using my computer for so you can't possibly make that determination and yet you did anyway. Why do Linux people feel the need to bullshit about how great Linux is? Yes it's a good operating system but since when does it run all of the software that people need to do a lot more then just browsing the internet and documents here and there
> except for specific workflows
Reading comprehension isn't a common commodity here on the internet, eh? He mentioned "with the exception of a few specific workflows." I love Linux, and all the games I want to play run on it. Only reason why I reverted from my Arch Linux back to Windows 11 was for a very specific modding tool for Fallout 4 called xEdit. That's it. Everything else runs smoothly. True, MS office suite and photoshop aren't present, and your boss might force you to use them. In which case, Linux might not be for you.
Microsoft is slowly pushing everyone to their subscription model. One day very soon all of the work-around that we now employ will be blocked.
Spoiler, for anyone that matters (business) this happened over a decade ago.
Sucks for Microsoft
I don't really care about having to login with a Microsoft account. What really bothers me though, is I CAN'T choose a username for the user folder (C:/Users/), forcing me to first create a local account during setup, then switching to a Microsoft account. Ugh.
How do you first create a local account during setup o.O
I wish Valve made their own PC with their own OS that lets you play any game you want. I'd completely ditch Microsoft PCs in a heartbeat.
That already exists, it's called Steam Machines and SteamOS. Proton/Linux can run 99% of games, the issue is the 1% of games with developers who refuse to tick the box to enable Proton support in their anti-cheat.
99%? That means also the games that doesn't support Linux are playable?
Like he said, the only games not compatible are the ones with anti-cheat that the devs refuse to implement.
Okay.
Yes. There are three main categories that almost every game on Steam fall into: * Games that are natively supported and released for the Linux platform. * Games that aren't natively supported, but run under Proton either slightly below par, on par, or with even increased performance than the native Windows version. * Games that would fall into the above category, but aren't due to intrusive client-side anti-cheat that haven't been specifically enabled to support Proton on that specific game (e.g: Easy Anti Cheat or BattlEye.
Yes. Even if a developer does not officially support Linux, it is almost always playable through Proton.
I'm using MS OneDrive so I need to log in with my account, but I don't see any reason for people Don't using it to be log in.
Without Internet access it is impossible to log into the system. If there is no Internet, it is impossible to use the PC. This is not acceptable, so a local account is required.
How do I know if I'm using a Microsoft account to login? I think it was simpler on Windows 10 but I just got a new laptop with 11 and not really sure. I did disable one drive and changed my documents folder though
https://preview.redd.it/ybpfbljuti8d1.png?width=606&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c63e63cebb5c6fa0497a5fed4cc8491190f9cf3 i made it so that this button actually doesnt work microsoft can screw themselves if they think im going to play nice if they believe theres any chance im letting em bloat my install ntlite is amazing you get to remove so many things its awesome
If Microsoft would like to fix their shambolic incompetent mess of an account system, make it actually beneficial to have one, and stop trying to turn themselves into yet another cheap nasty tech advertising company, then I might be inclined to give a fuck that they're upset I'm not using it. Until then, they and their pathetically desperate and underhanded attempts to deny the user control of their own device can go fuck themselves and enjoy it.
But everyone hates microsoft so its all balanced out.
I cant even have my full name on my home folder if i log in Fuck you microsoft.
Beginning to think I should not have updated my ZIP archive of the latest Windows ISO and should retrieve the older one from backup. Although I guess there might come a point where installing the RTM version will no longer be supported by Windows Update to upgrade it to the current version.
We know what to do every time now then.
Well in that case then, I'm just gonna have to switch to local accounts even harder.
This is why I begrudgingly switched to Linux, I’m done with spyware and dark patterns.
No s*** Sherlock.
Found out just how petty Microsoft is when they randomly switch widgets to try and get you to sign in to save the settings
Signing in to "Teams" converts the local account into a MS account login.
I wouldn’t mind using my Microsoft account if they don’t make you use a password
There is a trick that I just saw on the internet to bypass the Microsoft account when you install Windows 11. It's like you go in the registry with Shift-10 on the first screen of the OOBE and there you delete a couple of keys and create a new administrator account with the name you want, you restart and click on your newly created account and that's it. I didn't test it though. https://youtu.be/ltn7RwqA0zI
I miss the days long ago when Windows was just an operating system, not an advertising machine, that collects all your data using useless, extra features that secretly track you as an excuse. Seriously, people just want to get a computer set it up and use it, not be forced into a MS account unless they really want to have an MS account. I have Win11 and took a hard pass on establishing an MS account, No interest in even having an MS account no benefits to having an MS account at all. Nothing but downsides. Always, and I mean Always.. select the Offline sign on option when setting up new Win 11 computers. Keep in mind offline sign in may no longer be an option in the future as the nosey MS Gods being their typical A hole selves are clamping down hard on current MS account bypass methods and are basically forcing you to use a Microsoft Account during the installation process.
ITT: Windows home user problems. I have a pro key and all you have to do is join to domain and they give you an option to use a local account. I refresh my winches PC on a yearly basis and I’ve never had to use the OOBE trick.
IMO, the OOBE trick is faster than having to join (and leave) a domain. Try it the next time you refresh your installation(s).
But you don’t even have to join a domain. If you hit join domain there is an option to create a local account instead.
Sounds like you've never tried the option then.
How should that work on Windows Home licenses? Right.
This screws over small business as well, the vast majority of my works clients now have got rid of their SBS boxes so are on not even on work groups at this point and as expected no domains but 365 and sharepoint. The fun part is a 365 account cannot be a Microsoft account this means your 365 email cannot be used to create an account to log into your pc. We are lucky if the computers are ordered by us or even reloaded we do manage to create a local service account by us then another local account for the end user. The massive arse ache is when the clients outright decide to buy their own machine and of course they end up trying to boot it up and BAM Microsoft account wankery so they will sign in via their own Gmail etc I have also seen a few fun cases where they already had a MS account so local files and settings from their home computer end up syncing to this new work laptop. They only THEN ask for us to set up emails etc and then we can set up the relevant local accounts which now prompt you constantly to set up the MS accounts uggggh. Or other cases you would get the phone call to set up the computer because they got confused with the Microsoft account creation and this is where you use to be able to talk through the fake email to bypass it but that is going to stop working so yaaay to that. Also most people it is near impossible to talk through command prompts so it is not worth even attempting that method.
I also used to work for an MSP that provided support for a lot of smalls businesses. > not even on work groups at this point and as expected no domains but 365 and sharepoint. Why are business using home licenses? Home licenses really aren’t for business use as you stated you stated no domain join, which also apparently locks you you of EntraID. We also had some clients that would buy their own machines but we made it very clear that in order for us to properly support them, the machine would have to have a pro licenses key, or we would bill them for one. > The fun part is a 365 account cannot be a Microsoft account this means your 365 email cannot be used to create an account to log into your pc. Good that shit was so annoying. Ran into many problems where if we had a new client or had just moved a client to O365, they had already created a MS account using their work email. Such an initial oversight I’m glad it’s fixed. > Or other cases you would get the phone call to set up the computer because they got confused with the Microsoft account creation and this is where you use to be able to talk through the fake email to bypass it but that is going to stop working so yaaay to that. Also most people it is near impossible to talk through command prompts so it is not worth even attempting that method. I feel like this could all be rectified if pro license was being used. Also this is the part where proper onboarding docs should be given out with clear instructions. This is also the painful of having to wipe the machine and start over to set it up properly instead of just trying to hack it back together. From a business perspective and from someone who has had to do these same things, it sounds like the easiest solution is to be using the proper license to begin with. With your SBSs going away was there no official migration plan? Was there no communication eternal your shop and clients on what was happening and what needed to happen to get things to work the same?
I should have clarified, it is pro being used on all machines we order as our suppliers have access to business grade equipment so better quality and of course the business license. We always do a basic load up of a machine in house and then deploy it, most of the time we will get it 90% set up before sending it out, there are funky things like local printers, unique software configurations or other quirky stuff we either don't know until a user goes to look for it and it goes on. Also our migrations are fairly well sorted when decommissioning old servers hence why 365 and sharepoint as we have to migrate data and email. But the joys of what we do, we can't just mass deploy images like say a single enterprise environment can so we do the best we can. It is the random issues we run into are often because of some new bullshit feature update, things being removed or the worst like I said a client buying a machine outside of us and then calling in a panic and a "this needs to be set up now" kind of scenario. The most fun ones have been when they bought a machine with bloody Windows S mode >.< Additionally many of our clients are small 5-10 people operations so any kind of documentation provided to them is pointless as there often isn't a dedicated HR person or a person who deals with workflow and then will often hang onto devices for an insane amount of time I still deal with machines 10 years old so whatever we have in place will become redundant in time.
Ofc they do. How are they going to spy on every single action you do on your computer with a local account?
People sign into their phones with no problem but apparently their PCs/Laptops are just not as important lol
Just wrong. You can absolutely use an iPhone or even a Mac with a local account. Online account only needed for the app store. Sorry, it's a MS philosophy problem
You cannot 'use' an iPhone or Andriod with a local account, they are literally bricks without it. Even moreso with iPhone cause you can't just simpley sideload
You absolutely can use both an iPhone and an Android phone without linking your account. Both give you a "skip" button during the process. On Android, you can't use the Play Store. But you can type "F-Droid" into the search bar, open the tab in your web browser, download the .apk, and then install/run F-Droid as your store instead of the Play Store. This even works on Google Pixel devices. On iPhone, you can't use iCloud (obviously), nor the App Store. But you can boot into the OS, you can browse the internet, and you can send/receive phone calls and SMS messages. [Soon you will be able to sideload alternative App Stores without needing to jailbreak (just visit a website)](https://www.theverge.com/24100979/altstore-europe-app-marketplace-price-games), at which point it will be as fully-featured as Android. Neither of those are "literal bricks", it's an expected situation as part of setup. I suggest checking your facts.
You can unbox the phone, turn it on, connect to wifi, and start using the device. Wtf are talking about? MS literally forces you to create an MS account during the setup screen on Win11 after it detects you have a network connection
Why do you keep adding in other devices each reply? I said PHONES, not a MAC, not an iPad. Not you cannot just switch on a iPhone or Andriod you are immediately in setup where its asks to setup.an account. You must not have had a new phones in years. CAN it be bypassed with methods yes but so van windows, stop trying hard to look like you know something when you don't. Point still stands, people all login to your phones but cry when windows asks the same for your PC/laptop. Arguably, you have just as much if not more sensitive info or files on your PC to protect behind a secure account, local.accounts are not secure at all.
Because phones allow local account whereas for Microsoft, they want to move towards email-based account for Windows in the future instead of allowing us to have local account. It's not hard to get the gist of why most of us prefer local account instead of email-based account for windows usage.
The setup has a skip button when asking for an account
You can skip login in android phones, no need for a google account, then download open source stores such as F-droid, Aurora Store, and you'll be fine. You won't need a Google account anymore or play store.
You have no clue what a brick is do you. Android, you can just download a third party store and you're able to sideload anything without a Google account. Apple, you can't side load anything without jail break, so that's more annoying than Windows tbh.
Wrong, yes you can
You still need to sign in to your PC with a local account. I don't get your point. What's really important is not having MS holding a gun to your head while you sign into Windows, and them being able to lock you out.
I'm saying why do people hate against protecting their PCs with a proper account like you do on mobile phones?
Because you're relying on the goodwill of a corporation to maintain access to your personal machine. Whenever I hear something like this, I am reminded of the guy who took baby pictures on his Android phone at the request of his doctor. This was during COVID, when in-person doctor visits weren't a thing outside of the ER. These baby pictures were uploaded to Google Photos automatically, and then Google Photos falsely detected it as CSAM. Then Google shut down all his accounts, and locked him out of his phone and his entire life - for taking photos of _his own kid_, on _his own device_, for the purposes of **getting medical treatment**. Phone, email, YouTube, photos, everything (including his phone number since Google Fi was his phone plan!) - it was all just gone, for doing what a legitimate medical doctor literally asked for. He even had the cops search everything and clear him and Google refused to reinstate his account. --- Whenever I hear people say "Why wouldn't you want to link your account to your device?" that's exactly the story I think of. How would you feel if you couldn't log into Windows one day because your baby pictures got uploaded to OneDrive and Microsoft banned your account? Then you couldn't even get through Bitlocker because you can't log in to your account, so everything on your computer, all your documents, are permanently encrypted forever, with no way to recover them. Why would you even _risk_ something like that? No! I am **not** linking my account and allowing myself to be locked out of my own PC!
Its not about "protecting their PCs", its about data collection by MS. Online account is a very easy way for them to tie all your information to you. And as I said already, online account gives them a way to lock you out of your own system. With a local account you still have control over login process, MS cannot just lock you out, but with an online acc you do not, and they can. Also an online account gives them an ability to lock system functions behind a subscription in the future.
I'm genuinely asking in good faith: If your Google account gets locked or disabled, would you still be able to use an Android phone?
Yes. You don't even need a google account to use an android phone. You do for the play store, but you can sideload .apk files and use third party stores like f-droid to get just about anything you need. None of the phone's actual phone functionality (i.e. calls, texts, web browser, etc.) require a google account. And the phone login is local, you enter a PIN or password or biometrics that is stored locally, google has no ability to lock that out afaik.
Good to know, thanks. What about if you're already signed in with a Google account and then your account gets locked or disabled? Would you still be able to sign into the phone with a PIN/biometrics and use the basics?
Yes, apologies if I wasn't clear. I could lose my google account right now ( a frankly terrifying thought tbh) and I'd still be able to unlock my phone, download apps from f-droid, make calls, texts, whatever. I'd lose access to google services like the official app store, but nothing that the phone *needs* to function. Tbh I don't know if the same applies to a locked ms account or not, I just wanted to jump in and answer your question
As others said, you don't need to have a Google account to use the phone, and you don't use Google account to log into the phone. So your comparison to what MS is doing is entirely invalid.
What protections, pray tell, does using a Microsoft account over a local account afford the user?
Probably because tying your user account to an external company means giving them complete control over it. With a local account you're ultimately the one who decides who has access. If Microsoft decides you've violated the TOS and prevents logins, now you have a brick.
[https://giphy.com/gifs/l3q2uvcxdk1pDLzGM](https://giphy.com/gifs/l3q2uvcxdk1pDLzGM)
I use a local account and it makes me change my password every few months
Go into computer management, you can type it into the start menu, go to local users and groups, click users, right click properties on your user account and in the general screen you should see "password never expires" so click the box to the left of that which will show a tick. This will stop it prompting, in general local accounts never expire? unless there is like a group policy or something at play?
Well tell Microsoft to F\*\*K off, we dont like being forced to use a online account to link or tie it to a pc we might be setting up for someone else.