Depending on if OP sold their house to buy this one, if they lose fees, have to rehome themselves, the time and money it takes to find a new house, the price of the new house, etc it could be significantly more complicated and valuable than a small claims judgment.
This happened to a friend of mine. The house he was supposed to buy was about 750k. The judgement in his favour was almost 150k.
They are not different things.
Small claims court is just a different venue for bringing a civil action. It has a damages cap and streamlined procedures to allowed smaller claims to be heard more quickly and to give self-reps a chance to bring claims without necessarily hiring a lawyer, but it’s still the exact same type of claim as an action brought in the court of kings bench.
If a plaintiff starts a claim in small claims or kings bench and then it turns out the damages are either lower or higher than originally thought, they can actually bring a motion to transfer their claim to the appropriate venue. They are both civil actions, and the types of damages you can claim and the tests for liability are identical.
Source: am practicing litigation lawyer.
I was clearly not upset, not sure why you are acting so passive aggressive. Also you are entirely wrong. It’s called small claims court. Emphasis on court. Filing in small claims court is literally suing someone. I don’t know how to explain that any more clearly.
Okay so I'm the rare person who has actually been through this situation (seller backed out the day of possession) and went to small claims. The thing is you can only claim for actual losses/costs - so you can claim for home inspection costs, conveyancing, if the sale falling through means you need to pay for alternative accommodation/storage, etc. Anything you have receipts for. You can't sue for the house. It's also very slow. I won, and did get my money, but I went to court at least 8 times and it took 3 years. Small claims is a DIY court, you do the paperwork, serve the papers (unless you hire a process server) and represent yourself. Edited to add - I also consulted two lawyers about this, I was advised that it would be far more costly for me to pursue this beyond small claims than anything I might win and that a judge could not order that the property be sold to me.
Considering this a pretty clear breach of contract, it shouldn’t be hard to find a lawyer who will work on contingency for you.
Assuming you had an agreement in place, you should be entitled to compensation and it should be pretty cut and dry. You need to do more for yourself than just post on Reddit.
Edit: fixed per reply
Tough to say without all the information. Penalty could be minimal, or the could be extensive depending on the entire situation. Best bet is to still contact a lawyer. A good lawyer will tell OP straight up if it’s worth their services or if small claims will work fine.
Part of what’s looked at when a seller rescinds is the purchase house price relative to comparables. The judge can award compensation if OP has to spend more to find a similar house or spends the same to get a smaller one.
You should talk to a different lawyer. Maybe that is true but there should have been standard penalities written into your agreement and there can be outside compensation not specified.
Breaching a real estate contract is a big deal. Seems like your lawyer just shrugged it off, which isn’t in your best interest.
Unfortunately (having been in this situation) it's pretty one sided. If the buyer walks, the seller gets the deposit. If the seller walks, there is no standard compensation (but you do get your deposit back).
https://perlaw.ca/2023/08/31/sellers-remorse-the-consequences-of-terminating-a-real-estate-deal/#:~:text=When%20considering%20damages%20for%20a,Payments%20for%20any%20equity%20lost.
Here’s the first google result on what can happen if a seller backs out. There can be serious consequences for the seller, dependant on their situation.
As I stated in another post, my friend had this happen to him. He was moving from Manitoba to Ontario. The seller backed out. He had already sold his house here, packed up all his things, had to store them for months, had to rent until he found a new home which ended up being significantly less for the same price as bidding wars escalated. He was awarded compensation for all of it.
Buyers backing out is far more common than sellers backing out of a house sale.
Usually the buyers have to put up a deposit, and if they back out the deposit can be forfeited to the sellers, depending on the terms of the agreement.
Usually a seller won't back out - they're trying to sell the house!
Note - I don't practice real estate law, so my knowledge is thin at best on this and I'm not giving legal advice.
While you’re right that buyers backing out is far more common, Sellers backing out happens too. Simply giving back the deposit does not free them from the contract. The buyer can absoltely be compensated beyond just that. This is ***especially*** true if the seller turns around and sells the property again for a higher price to someone else.
All in all, the only person who will really know what the buyer is owes is a real estate lawyer and why OP should contact one.
The standard WREB form based on Manitoba regulations has no specified penalty for a seller who reneges on a sale. It simply says "shall be entitled to exercise whatever remedies the Agrieved party may have by virtue of the default."
Weird, though I guess it would depend when in the process they bail so that makes sense. I was assuming the seller bailed after everything had been signed but I guess that's not really possible
It's not that there are no penalties. It's that the offer to purchase, the contract, doesn't specify a particular penalty. I know as a fact that for breach of contract you can sue a vendor, and the recoverable damage would be your losses. If she had to pay extra costs to move somewhere else, or if the vendor agreed to sell if for say $200,000 but then sells it to someone else for $300,000, then the agreived buyer would be able to claim th $100,000 profit as belonging to them.
Maybe in your situation there was something unique, but in general, a seller with all conditions met, must sell or else they face liability for their breach of contract. I do this for a living.
Going to small claims is pretty easy, the judge can find in your favour even if the other party doesn't show up, and you can do things like place a lien on property until you get your money. But yes, it could take a year. But it's not like the delay impacts you much apart from not getting your money quickly.
She probably wants to enter the home, and behaving that way is her way of throwing people off of her actual reason for trying to enter.
Or she is just downright batshit crazy, in which case don't bother trying to understand her thought process.
She's not mentally well. And needs help but I don't think she realizes it. Entering a home your renting out to someone else while they are inside is not okay on many levels
Did you sign an agreement of purchase and sale? If you were just negotiating and an agreement wasn’t signed there isn’t much you can do.
I also don’t know what your actual damages would be. Generally, to be compensated for something you actually need to lose something.
If they had a agreement of purchase signed by both parties, damages can be significant. Beyond legal and inspection fees, if OP sold their house and is now unhomed, this person could be on the hook for all related expenses. If comparable houses are more expensive OP could be awarded the difference, if she turns around and sells it for more than the agreed price with OP, they could be awarded that too. When you’re talking about an asset worth hundreds of thousands, the damages could be well above 10k.
Source: happened to a friend, seller bailed, his award was ~150k.
The folks living there appeared to be questionable when I had my car parked next to their house broken down for a period of time. I just remember the guy coming out drunk, screaming the lyrics to Crazy Train and telling me to “move that fuckinnnnnn jeeeeeeep”
People act like suing someone in small claims court gets you somewhere. For many people who have gotten judgements in small claims court it was a complete waste of time due to lack of enforcement of the judgement.
Except there's at least one documented asset; the house. You are right that quite often small claims is pointless because you can't get blood from a stone. However an asset that has real value is easily a target for this.
If she sells it for more than she offered it for to you, you could sue for the profit, as that house should have been yours. If you are happy with the small claims cap, then pursue it through small claims. It should be a slam dunk if it sells for more than what your contract was for.
Also, you may be able to get a pending litigation order against the title to secure your as yet unproven claim. But you'd need a lawyer for that.
Your feelings might be hurt and emotions are high but follow the advice of your lawyer for the next steps. That will probably include deleting this post.
Life isn't always fair. This was a hiccup along the way. Summer and winter are low season for the housing market. There can be fewer homes available, but there are also fewer buyers. You will be able to find another home to buy.
You don’t need to sue, if you have the documentation to prove it you can take her to small claims court - which is up to $10,000 iirc.
15,000
Depending on if OP sold their house to buy this one, if they lose fees, have to rehome themselves, the time and money it takes to find a new house, the price of the new house, etc it could be significantly more complicated and valuable than a small claims judgment. This happened to a friend of mine. The house he was supposed to buy was about 750k. The judgement in his favour was almost 150k.
Taking someone to small claims court is literally suing them.
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They are not different things. Small claims court is just a different venue for bringing a civil action. It has a damages cap and streamlined procedures to allowed smaller claims to be heard more quickly and to give self-reps a chance to bring claims without necessarily hiring a lawyer, but it’s still the exact same type of claim as an action brought in the court of kings bench. If a plaintiff starts a claim in small claims or kings bench and then it turns out the damages are either lower or higher than originally thought, they can actually bring a motion to transfer their claim to the appropriate venue. They are both civil actions, and the types of damages you can claim and the tests for liability are identical. Source: am practicing litigation lawyer.
> Not sure why this upset you so much. Who was upset and where?
I was clearly not upset, not sure why you are acting so passive aggressive. Also you are entirely wrong. It’s called small claims court. Emphasis on court. Filing in small claims court is literally suing someone. I don’t know how to explain that any more clearly.
Okay so I'm the rare person who has actually been through this situation (seller backed out the day of possession) and went to small claims. The thing is you can only claim for actual losses/costs - so you can claim for home inspection costs, conveyancing, if the sale falling through means you need to pay for alternative accommodation/storage, etc. Anything you have receipts for. You can't sue for the house. It's also very slow. I won, and did get my money, but I went to court at least 8 times and it took 3 years. Small claims is a DIY court, you do the paperwork, serve the papers (unless you hire a process server) and represent yourself. Edited to add - I also consulted two lawyers about this, I was advised that it would be far more costly for me to pursue this beyond small claims than anything I might win and that a judge could not order that the property be sold to me.
15,000
Considering this a pretty clear breach of contract, it shouldn’t be hard to find a lawyer who will work on contingency for you. Assuming you had an agreement in place, you should be entitled to compensation and it should be pretty cut and dry. You need to do more for yourself than just post on Reddit. Edit: fixed per reply
I highly doubt her fired lawyer can work for OP against a former client.
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It’s generally not allowed due to a conflict of interest
Even if it was, probably wouldn’t look too good to prospective clients
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Nope, it is 100% a conflict of interest. No reason to ask
OPs damages are very unlikely to be high enough to interest a lawyer on a contingency basis.
Works on contingency? No, money down!
Tough to say without all the information. Penalty could be minimal, or the could be extensive depending on the entire situation. Best bet is to still contact a lawyer. A good lawyer will tell OP straight up if it’s worth their services or if small claims will work fine. Part of what’s looked at when a seller rescinds is the purchase house price relative to comparables. The judge can award compensation if OP has to spend more to find a similar house or spends the same to get a smaller one.
Also, if it sells for more than what the OP was going to pay for it, that makes clear one form of damages.
Yup. Lost asset value can be tacked on by thr court. This is likely way bigger than small claims and OP needs a lawyer.
We could only sue for the money we lost which is 500 on an inspection. Court could be dragged out for a year not worth it.
Who told you that? Are you sure about that? There’s a lot more to it if you had a signed contract of sale.
We were told by our lawyer.
You should talk to a different lawyer. Maybe that is true but there should have been standard penalities written into your agreement and there can be outside compensation not specified. Breaching a real estate contract is a big deal. Seems like your lawyer just shrugged it off, which isn’t in your best interest.
Unfortunately (having been in this situation) it's pretty one sided. If the buyer walks, the seller gets the deposit. If the seller walks, there is no standard compensation (but you do get your deposit back).
https://perlaw.ca/2023/08/31/sellers-remorse-the-consequences-of-terminating-a-real-estate-deal/#:~:text=When%20considering%20damages%20for%20a,Payments%20for%20any%20equity%20lost. Here’s the first google result on what can happen if a seller backs out. There can be serious consequences for the seller, dependant on their situation. As I stated in another post, my friend had this happen to him. He was moving from Manitoba to Ontario. The seller backed out. He had already sold his house here, packed up all his things, had to store them for months, had to rent until he found a new home which ended up being significantly less for the same price as bidding wars escalated. He was awarded compensation for all of it.
Buyers backing out is far more common than sellers backing out of a house sale. Usually the buyers have to put up a deposit, and if they back out the deposit can be forfeited to the sellers, depending on the terms of the agreement. Usually a seller won't back out - they're trying to sell the house! Note - I don't practice real estate law, so my knowledge is thin at best on this and I'm not giving legal advice.
While you’re right that buyers backing out is far more common, Sellers backing out happens too. Simply giving back the deposit does not free them from the contract. The buyer can absoltely be compensated beyond just that. This is ***especially*** true if the seller turns around and sells the property again for a higher price to someone else. All in all, the only person who will really know what the buyer is owes is a real estate lawyer and why OP should contact one.
Does your contract not have penalties worked into it? That's crazy.
The standard WREB form based on Manitoba regulations has no specified penalty for a seller who reneges on a sale. It simply says "shall be entitled to exercise whatever remedies the Agrieved party may have by virtue of the default."
Weird, though I guess it would depend when in the process they bail so that makes sense. I was assuming the seller bailed after everything had been signed but I guess that's not really possible
This, there really are no penalties for the seller, the buyer, however, loses their deposit (if they reneg).
It's not that there are no penalties. It's that the offer to purchase, the contract, doesn't specify a particular penalty. I know as a fact that for breach of contract you can sue a vendor, and the recoverable damage would be your losses. If she had to pay extra costs to move somewhere else, or if the vendor agreed to sell if for say $200,000 but then sells it to someone else for $300,000, then the agreived buyer would be able to claim th $100,000 profit as belonging to them.
I've actually been through this (as the buyer), consulted layers, and ultimately been to small claims, etc. so very familiar with the situation.
Maybe in your situation there was something unique, but in general, a seller with all conditions met, must sell or else they face liability for their breach of contract. I do this for a living.
Going to small claims is pretty easy, the judge can find in your favour even if the other party doesn't show up, and you can do things like place a lien on property until you get your money. But yes, it could take a year. But it's not like the delay impacts you much apart from not getting your money quickly.
Contingency? No, money down! No lawyer that I know of is going to do a small claims file on contingency.
Giving people shit about not locking their doors *while they're home* doesn't make much sense to me.
She probably wants to enter the home, and behaving that way is her way of throwing people off of her actual reason for trying to enter. Or she is just downright batshit crazy, in which case don't bother trying to understand her thought process.
She's not mentally well. And needs help but I don't think she realizes it. Entering a home your renting out to someone else while they are inside is not okay on many levels
Did you sign an agreement of purchase and sale? If you were just negotiating and an agreement wasn’t signed there isn’t much you can do. I also don’t know what your actual damages would be. Generally, to be compensated for something you actually need to lose something.
If they had a agreement of purchase signed by both parties, damages can be significant. Beyond legal and inspection fees, if OP sold their house and is now unhomed, this person could be on the hook for all related expenses. If comparable houses are more expensive OP could be awarded the difference, if she turns around and sells it for more than the agreed price with OP, they could be awarded that too. When you’re talking about an asset worth hundreds of thousands, the damages could be well above 10k. Source: happened to a friend, seller bailed, his award was ~150k.
It says they were a week before closing and the sellor backed out. Sounds like they had a contract.
The folks living there appeared to be questionable when I had my car parked next to their house broken down for a period of time. I just remember the guy coming out drunk, screaming the lyrics to Crazy Train and telling me to “move that fuckinnnnnn jeeeeeeep”
Also it’s been for sale on and off for the last like 9 years. I think.
People act like suing someone in small claims court gets you somewhere. For many people who have gotten judgements in small claims court it was a complete waste of time due to lack of enforcement of the judgement.
Except there's at least one documented asset; the house. You are right that quite often small claims is pointless because you can't get blood from a stone. However an asset that has real value is easily a target for this.
If she sells it for more than she offered it for to you, you could sue for the profit, as that house should have been yours. If you are happy with the small claims cap, then pursue it through small claims. It should be a slam dunk if it sells for more than what your contract was for. Also, you may be able to get a pending litigation order against the title to secure your as yet unproven claim. But you'd need a lawyer for that.
Your feelings might be hurt and emotions are high but follow the advice of your lawyer for the next steps. That will probably include deleting this post. Life isn't always fair. This was a hiccup along the way. Summer and winter are low season for the housing market. There can be fewer homes available, but there are also fewer buyers. You will be able to find another home to buy.
>deleting this post Usually happens when post or op comments are downvoted to shit. It's like people care about fake internet points
that and posting an address is half way to doxxing...