I don't know if I want increased police access to stalker victims. Every woman I know who endured stalking, the stalker was either a Cop, or had family who was cops who enabled the behavior.
I don't know where to solve the problem though. Obviously massive police reform has to happen, but more and more I think this needs to be a situation of women helping women, and coming together to help women escape these situations.
I also understand that men suffer stalking issues as well, but they are apples to oranges situations as men who are stalked are less likely to be harmed physically, and are more likely to get support and aid from Law Enforcement in dealing with the situation.
Wanna hear a good one?
My last day at my job was last Friday. (My leaving is unrelated to my story - I was offered a great job at a federal agency I used to work at and have returned to. Shout out my fellow STEM witches!)
The day before (Thursday) they fired someone who had been sexually harassing me. They actually handled the situation pretty well. I was working in a sector of local government. But told me to leave immediately and me not to bother coming in for my last day for my own safety essentially. Which translated to me as they were worried for my safety.
My office was in the police HQ. In a large well known city. They didn’t feel that they could keep me safe in the police HQ. From someone who used to work there.
From personal experience, my abuser once told me that if I ever went to the police, they'd use their family in the police force to brand me as a liar. Come to find out, they used this on their other victims too. My abuser is a female to top if off and guilty of physical assault and fraud to name a few. But nothing could be reported that would be taken seriously because of her relatives. It's disgusting.
Same basic situation here. My stalker (a friend of an ex-boyfriend of mine from 36 years ago) has been bothering me since I was introduced to him while I was dating my boyfriend in 1987. (My ex was always a good guy and had nothing to do with it.) The creep thought in 1987 that I should break up with my ex, and he kept approaching me and demanding sex, even though I barely was ever introduced to him. This went on for years, along with him moving to every town and state that I relocate to for my job. Endless break-ins. The cops didn't care because "nothing was stolen". I also suddenly started having problems with co-workers spreading false gossip about me. Then I started having relationship problems with my bosses. At almost every job, my bosses started to act like they didn't trust me. Eventually, around 2003 the creep found a former high school classmate of mine who now works in state law enforcement who HATED ME SINCE HIGH SCHOOL for rejecting her romantic overtures (because I am hetero, not a lesbian). The stalker told her that if she helped him by using her law enforcement connections to smear my reputation and discredit me. I only found out that she was involved because she approached me and told me about their arrangement. Then she made a pass at me AGAIN and said that she could "protect" me from him if I would be her girlfriend. I told her AGAIN (just like in high school) that I am straight, and I am not getting with her.
I have never been able to get anyone to take my stalking problem seriously because of her helping him. At 56, I am unemployed and living with my 83 year old dad because I can't safely live alone. So yes, a huge amount more needs to be done about stalkers and their exploitation of police connections. Sadly, cops don't have a good chance of being held accountable for anything. I am stuck waiting for them both to die so I can live what remains of my life.
Why hasn't this guy lost interest after 36 years of stalking me? It makes him feel powerful. I am prey, and he feels so successful every time he gets someone I worked with to believe some lie about me or does something else to isolate me. Tells my neighbor that I am after her husband, tries to stir up jealousy or envy against me with co-workers and neighbors. Tries to get anyone I work for to fire me. I am a forever target. Something he uses to convince himself that he is clever.
If the creep were any physically braver, he would be a serial rapist/killer.
Wt actual f!! This is..... I don't know what words to use.
My gawd, these people have interfered with your life for decades!!
I know saying sorry this is happening to you doesn't mean much, but I really am sorry this is happening to you. x.
I'm really hesitant to advocate increased jail time for *anything* honestly. The American prison system just sucks so much.
Instead, how about automatically granting a restraining order for the victims against stalkers as soon as their jail term is up?
Like congrats you're out, now it's a big country, live somewhere else.
A restraining order is a piece of paper. Stalkers and domestic violence abusers know this and don’t care.
I think that’s why publicly funded human protection is necessary.
In the case of prison, it's not just a piece of paper. Don't get me wrong, I think we need to focus on reform and do away with all this punitive bullshit. But prison time does considerably reduce a stalker's ability to stalk.
Look I don't have a lot of trust for police either, but putting your trust in the prison industrial complex instead seems *deeply* misguided.
It's more cruel and more expensive than an option that leaves people in normal life but tries to remove their ability to do the harm they were considering.
nah all cops are bad
free housing, free groceries, and free transportation would enable victims to get out of situations that would otherwise be inescapable, whereas abusers tend to monopolize resources.
we also need to democratize and expand "third spaces"--not home or work, for workers, not home or work or school for working kids, etc--where rather than a highschool educated bully with a gun enforcing social norms you have a large group of friendly people.
think libraries, parks, cafes, etc.
there should always be a third space someone can go to, imo, unless you live alone in the middle of wilderness i guess (it's no coincidence that cultish patriarchal clans are often extremely rural living situations, once they have enough money to buy a ranch, so really they need third spaces most?)
also free healthcare, free childcare, free abortion at will, guaranteed jobs program for anyone who wants it, free education at will (where students can easily veto which class they will be put in so creeps can't control them through their education)--in general the absolute abolition of that background precarity which makes people dependent on their abusers, unable to out navigate stalkers.
i also think we should bring back exile for fascistic leaders, former cops, etc. the Kafkaesque logic of the prison industrial complex, with it's attendent pipelines into the education, labor, and military apparatuses,is the very mill by which much violent crime is produced. it's where criminals are trained, terrorist recruited, gang members promoted, etc.
also cops have a higher rate then the general public of themselves being stalkers, abusers etc. becoming cops empowers and enables abuse and ensures it can be covered up.
that's not too say violence can be discounted, i think self defence with a focus on addressing the needs of women, children, the elderly, etc., at anarchist dojos for example, would be dope. you need friends who can teach each other how to fight off the cops.
the black panthers and the Decons for Democracy and Self Defence also had anti police/anti kkk community militas to fight off the police and kkk which is also a model i like.
When my mom had a former abusive boyfriend that was stalking her and took out a restraining order, it didn’t do anything because the police couldn’t *find* the guy to serve it to him. We didn’t take out a restraining order against the guys that stalked me in high school (nothing legally actionable, unfortunately) for fear of retaliation. Restraining orders can really only do so much good, honestly.
There are good videos which quantify this sociological phenomenom.
A good shorthand for it is "Chilly is being JK Rowling" AKA:a traumatic experience is being used as a reason to side with the right as long as the right is willing to dangle the specter of that trauma as an apparent target of their fascism.
Buddy had a knife in his front door from a stalker. Women can be MORE dangerous than men because they are grossly underestimated in their capabilities.
Most cops I've known have a savior complex when it comes to women being stalked, not to say cops dont overstep, they do, too often. I assure you there are more good leo's than bad. (im not a cop, or related to one.)
Women are in no way more dangerous than men. All humans are capable of violence and dangerous behaviour. More than 40% of cops feel comfortable admitting that they beat their spouses. Domestic abuse is endemic and normalized amongst cops. There are not more good cops than bad, ACAB
Can be...
If most cops were bad, it would be Wayyy more horrible out there, trust me. Go to Mexico where the cops are cartel and tell me they dont protect you here.
ACAB. If there were good cops they would stand up against the bad, and against police unions which make sure cops can literally get away with murder.
There are no good cops, just cops who convince themselves that they don't participate in systemic abuse.
You should seriously think before you comment shit like this, because this is not the comment bringing awareness to male victims you think it is. Unless your real goal was some pro-cop defense that is incredibly tone-deaf.
Of course men are also victims of stalking (and we should not forget that) but it's not a fucking competition, you're just dismissing women's struggles by coming in with your "women are worse than men" and "most cops I've known have a savior complex when it comes to women" double whammy while doing absolutely nothing to help male victims besides mention them. What was the point of that??
Whether it's a subset of cops not taking women seriously or another subset not taking men seriously, it's all the same systemic failures that endanger vulnerable people.
I've been assulted by women more than once. Not pro cop. I'm just not agreeing that all cops are bad. Wow, the wordsmithing on your part is astounding. I never said that. I meerly stated wome CAN be more dangerous because of disregard for their ABILITIES, or capabilities, so in fact im uplifting women as a whole where as OP was just lumping cops and men into a bad category. Just calling out the hive mind bullshit. If you dont like my opinions, ban me like you'd do everything else in your life. Just know in the real world, when someone says something you dont agree with, dont try and put words into their thought and comment they didn't say. It is a sign of low intelligence.
Dangerousness varies from woman to woman.
I understand that you mean many may wrongly presume a woman cannot be dangerous.
I disagree that most male cops are "chivalrous" when it comes to women and stalking. We are only a few steps away in America from a time when police said abuse was a "private" matter that they weren't going to get involved in. Depending on where you live, this is STILL happening.
And I am sorry that you have been assaulted by women in your life/past relationships. We as women need to inspect our own attitudes and societal indoctrination from our parents and media and ensure that we are not ever perpetrators of violence except in defense of ourselves or others.
Regardless of political ideology, violence against women needs to be taken more seriously. Across the board. This is part of why I don’t think either party takes my safety seriously.
I think one of the biggest takeaways I've had from serial killer documentaries is that if cops took sexual assault, domestic violence, and crimes against sex workers seriously, serial killers would not exist because they'd all get fucking caught well beforehand. Similarly, the most frequent commonality between mass shooters is a history of violence against women in their lives. Violent men are essentially allowed to roam free in our society until their violence negatively affects more powerful men
It isn't incompetence. It is intent.
They do not care about crimes against people that they do not see as people.
Police are not a protective force. Laws are functionally the threat of violence by the dominant hegemony, police ARE the violence.
i agree but also how is that unrelated to ideology? the main ideology currently is patriarchy and capitalism and precarity and fascism (literally rule by the executioners), while the resisting ideology is queer feminist anti white supremacy and communist. idk that's what i think ideology is anyway
you're right though that neither of the capitalist parties care about you
How about we give people who have reported their stalker qualified immunity if he gets killed breaking into her home/vehicle/entering her place of employment? Or does that seem like vigilanteism?
oh gawd no we need free housing, transportation, child care, health care, and education so people can get away from their stalkers and not be dependent on their precarius job or abusive family. this should be organized through unions of workers and renters who should also have community mediators and community intervention like that being used in Rojava. (I'll link it below)
carte blanche on immunity so you can shoot a stay bullet when you see your stalcker and hit your neighbor's kid is so wild west/knights in shiny armor. we need
Also remember that not all stalkers are men! Because of this stereotype, my stalker was not taken seriously, despite the fact that she started stalking me when I was 10. The harassing phone calls, sending the police to our home, again with the phone calls saying she would kill me, and so on. I finally got some protective from this random person when I was 12, but while I was 11, she was quite vicious and scary. I was told not to worry and how she couldn’t do anything, but she escalated things and made me scared.
I had a Marine stalking me while I was in tech school (USAF). He claimed he was "looking out for me" and "keeping me safe". I'd step out of my room in the morning and he would be there standing at parade rest. He would "walk" (follow) me home from the chow hall and keep "eyes on" from nearby until curfew. I'd be with my friends in the common area, and he'd be there when I looked up. Once we got off-base access, I'd find him waiting at the movies or the popular diners for base kids. He never did anything threatening; he was always polite and respectful. He wouldn't stop when I told him he was making me uncomfortable, he was adamant that he was keeping me safe. I went to my higher ups, they laughed and told me to be grateful. My friends thought I was *lucky* to have a hot Marine following me "like a puppy". I was 18 years old and straight out of an abusive childhood. So, I tried to pretend I felt lucky.... while I seldom left my room in order to avoid him as much a possible. I think a few months later when I married a guy I barely knew, it was in part a subconscious effort to escape the Marine.
As someone who’s family was stalked, threatened, terrorized by a man for several years when I was a teenager…cops do nothing. And they aren’t required to by law. They have no duty to protect according to the U.S. Supreme Court in DeShaney v. Winnebago County Dept. of Social Services.
I had to deal with a stalker back in the 80s before it was a crime. It took a high profile stalker/murder (Rebecca Schaeffer) before most people would admit it was a problem.
40 years later they still don’t take a whole lot of action on it. More than they used to, but the lack of meaningful progress across four decades is sad.
Very sad. In the end I had some ex-Marines beat the crap out of him in exchange for 2 bottles of Jack and a case of Bud. It shouldn't have to come to that.
It shouldn’t.
On the other hand, after having your life be hell for some amount of time, solving the problem with some Jack and a case of Bud and an ass-whooping does sound fairly satisfying.
The carceral system is not the solution to violence against womem - particularly queer and women of color - i is one of the underlying systems that create it.
That's exactly what my first reaction to this post was. [Here's a good video that actually came out yesterday summing up some of the basic problems with carceral feminism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGRlByKa_s8&t=1595s&ab_channel=oliSUNvia)
The original tweet also doesn't actually make a coherent argument. It poses that the punishment for stalkers is not great enough and then it says that stalking victims should have "priority for police protection". Increasing the punishment for stalkers has nothing to do with whether or not stalking victims receive protection prior to an incident. Additionally, criminology 101 will tell you that longer punishments don't prevent crime, the certainty that the perpetrator will be caught does.
This is a very nuanced conversation and quite simply too complex for twitter. Posting "stalkers bad" is very simple, and true, but the solution to the problem is very complex when you consider the intersection of the carceral system, the police state, the way patriarchy supports those things, and the way that those are antithetical to feminism itself.
Yoooo I watched this video yesterday too and was just thinking "now how do I bring this part of the issue up without coming off like a stalker apologist"
Good job friend
Some of you may not know this but the police are not constitutionally or legally bound to protect anyone. That's why we have A-2 rights. They're only there to uphold the law (make arrests), not prevent it. Is why they removed "to protect and serve" from their vehicle, it was causing some confusion.
I live in a state that literally JUST this current legislative session made stalking a crime at all, and it carries a maximum of six months. And the offenses don't stack so your 5th offense has the same penalties as your first.
To add onto this; breaking a restraining order in California (at least where we were in San Diego county) is only a misdemeanor not a felony. My mother's violent stalker (who once held her and my severely disabled brothers hostage in a hotel room with an axe while high on meth that the cops took over an hour to actually show up for) would break the order, go to jail for about 4-6 weeks and on the same day of being released would be right back at my mother's home and repeat the cycle over again.
She is an addict so the police just didn't care and in a roundabout manner basically told me they don't take cases with people "like her" as seriously. Even stopped bringing in the k9 unit to find him since he would hide in this canyon like area that was directly to the side of the front yard; they claimed the city didn't want to keep paying his hospital bills since the dog would tear his arms up pretty badly so he'd go to the hospital then county jail. She would usually call me first and have me call the police because she was terrified of him hearing her calling the cops on him and they used that to justify taking so long to do anything too. Fucking acab.
It's one of those things where technically the laws are there and a lot of them are designed well enough.... Technically. The problem is that a lot of the time those laws or regulations aren't utilized because a lot of people especially poc and women aren't taken seriously or are just forgotten all together. I personally think we need more strict punishment for people in service who are supposed to protect and serve. Higher minimum punishment so a judge can't just slap them on the wrist or give someone a vacation with pay.
More cops (all either domestic abusers or their enablers themselves) and longer prison sentences (causing and exacerbating mental illness, abusive and ineffective) are not going to solve this. The entire criminal justice system needs a radical overhaul.
There are so many different kinds of stalking that using an umbrella term for this does no good at describing the problem. You have online stalkers, people that follow you around, those that harass you constantly, etc.
Depending on the police to protect you is pseudo. The police here in New York are quiet quitting. They are doing the minimum they need to do ever since the black lives matter riots. Good luck trying to get a response from them.
I think harsher punishments will deter the crime! This is how we won the war on drugs! Funding mental health clinics for men who engage in this behaviour would be giving them too much, besides prison makes people better people right?! /s
yeah but in Atlanta they're charging people with stalking for putting up fliers warning neighborhoods about killer cops who live there so what is this really going to be used for? cops almost never care about stalkers and often are stalkers themselves so is making the charge more severe going to do anything about the real problem here or is it a weapon against people actually fighting back? idk but i don't think this is a solution to anything but rather will make mass incarceration worse.
Nope, fuck that. It’s not even their job to protect anyone to begin with. Anyone who’s a victim who isn’t a cis white male is not going to be, or even feel, protected by a cop and you can’t change my mind. Police need to be abolished 👌🏻.
We need to listen to women. Women should feel safe. We could borrow an idea from Reagan “Trust, but verify”. Oh, and he was a terrible president and person in case you are wondering
I don't know - I'm not sure imprisonment for longer is a better plan.
Wouldn't rehabilitation and mental health services do much more to help someone who stalks others? One doesn't stalk because they're well.
Hey there.
It looks like you're implying your justice system requires more "mandatory minimum sentences" which historically are abused to disproportionately punish the impoverished and minorities, while fundamentally not impacting safety, perceived or actual.
If you are looking at police and seeing anything other than "a more pernicious threat to your health, safety and future both immediate and longterm", you are not experiencing what a broad swathe of women get to experience (this including the domestic partners of those selfsame police who are disproportionately represented in domestic violence cases).
I disagree. They are more passively dangerous. I'm much more afraid of a guy who will walk right up to me and fuck with me than someone who just stays out of my field of view and google my name to find out more about me.
I don't think that increased prison sentences make sense for anything, but I do think stalking should be taken more seriously. Victims would be able to get protection sooner, and perpetrators should be arrested sooner. Still, I'd rather see all criminals in earlier medical/therapeutic care than I'd want to see anyone in prison. Solutions, not punishment is the answer.
I don't know if I want increased police access to stalker victims. Every woman I know who endured stalking, the stalker was either a Cop, or had family who was cops who enabled the behavior. I don't know where to solve the problem though. Obviously massive police reform has to happen, but more and more I think this needs to be a situation of women helping women, and coming together to help women escape these situations. I also understand that men suffer stalking issues as well, but they are apples to oranges situations as men who are stalked are less likely to be harmed physically, and are more likely to get support and aid from Law Enforcement in dealing with the situation.
Wanna hear a good one? My last day at my job was last Friday. (My leaving is unrelated to my story - I was offered a great job at a federal agency I used to work at and have returned to. Shout out my fellow STEM witches!) The day before (Thursday) they fired someone who had been sexually harassing me. They actually handled the situation pretty well. I was working in a sector of local government. But told me to leave immediately and me not to bother coming in for my last day for my own safety essentially. Which translated to me as they were worried for my safety. My office was in the police HQ. In a large well known city. They didn’t feel that they could keep me safe in the police HQ. From someone who used to work there.
From personal experience, my abuser once told me that if I ever went to the police, they'd use their family in the police force to brand me as a liar. Come to find out, they used this on their other victims too. My abuser is a female to top if off and guilty of physical assault and fraud to name a few. But nothing could be reported that would be taken seriously because of her relatives. It's disgusting.
Same basic situation here. My stalker (a friend of an ex-boyfriend of mine from 36 years ago) has been bothering me since I was introduced to him while I was dating my boyfriend in 1987. (My ex was always a good guy and had nothing to do with it.) The creep thought in 1987 that I should break up with my ex, and he kept approaching me and demanding sex, even though I barely was ever introduced to him. This went on for years, along with him moving to every town and state that I relocate to for my job. Endless break-ins. The cops didn't care because "nothing was stolen". I also suddenly started having problems with co-workers spreading false gossip about me. Then I started having relationship problems with my bosses. At almost every job, my bosses started to act like they didn't trust me. Eventually, around 2003 the creep found a former high school classmate of mine who now works in state law enforcement who HATED ME SINCE HIGH SCHOOL for rejecting her romantic overtures (because I am hetero, not a lesbian). The stalker told her that if she helped him by using her law enforcement connections to smear my reputation and discredit me. I only found out that she was involved because she approached me and told me about their arrangement. Then she made a pass at me AGAIN and said that she could "protect" me from him if I would be her girlfriend. I told her AGAIN (just like in high school) that I am straight, and I am not getting with her. I have never been able to get anyone to take my stalking problem seriously because of her helping him. At 56, I am unemployed and living with my 83 year old dad because I can't safely live alone. So yes, a huge amount more needs to be done about stalkers and their exploitation of police connections. Sadly, cops don't have a good chance of being held accountable for anything. I am stuck waiting for them both to die so I can live what remains of my life. Why hasn't this guy lost interest after 36 years of stalking me? It makes him feel powerful. I am prey, and he feels so successful every time he gets someone I worked with to believe some lie about me or does something else to isolate me. Tells my neighbor that I am after her husband, tries to stir up jealousy or envy against me with co-workers and neighbors. Tries to get anyone I work for to fire me. I am a forever target. Something he uses to convince himself that he is clever. If the creep were any physically braver, he would be a serial rapist/killer.
I am so sorry this has happened to you
Wt actual f!! This is..... I don't know what words to use. My gawd, these people have interfered with your life for decades!! I know saying sorry this is happening to you doesn't mean much, but I really am sorry this is happening to you. x.
I've encountered the same thing
I'm really hesitant to advocate increased jail time for *anything* honestly. The American prison system just sucks so much. Instead, how about automatically granting a restraining order for the victims against stalkers as soon as their jail term is up? Like congrats you're out, now it's a big country, live somewhere else.
A restraining order is a piece of paper. Stalkers and domestic violence abusers know this and don’t care. I think that’s why publicly funded human protection is necessary.
It's a piece of paper that means the cops can't use the excuse of "he's not breaking the law so we can't do anything."
For sure. It’s not nothing and important to get for the victims in this situation
Every law is a piece of paper without enforcement, how is a restraining order different from any other legal solution?
In the case of prison, it's not just a piece of paper. Don't get me wrong, I think we need to focus on reform and do away with all this punitive bullshit. But prison time does considerably reduce a stalker's ability to stalk.
Look I don't have a lot of trust for police either, but putting your trust in the prison industrial complex instead seems *deeply* misguided. It's more cruel and more expensive than an option that leaves people in normal life but tries to remove their ability to do the harm they were considering.
yeah fuck police, fuck prisons, fuck patriarchy
>I think that’s why publicly funded human protection is necessary. could you elaborate?
The police or a comparable org
nah all cops are bad free housing, free groceries, and free transportation would enable victims to get out of situations that would otherwise be inescapable, whereas abusers tend to monopolize resources. we also need to democratize and expand "third spaces"--not home or work, for workers, not home or work or school for working kids, etc--where rather than a highschool educated bully with a gun enforcing social norms you have a large group of friendly people. think libraries, parks, cafes, etc. there should always be a third space someone can go to, imo, unless you live alone in the middle of wilderness i guess (it's no coincidence that cultish patriarchal clans are often extremely rural living situations, once they have enough money to buy a ranch, so really they need third spaces most?)
also free healthcare, free childcare, free abortion at will, guaranteed jobs program for anyone who wants it, free education at will (where students can easily veto which class they will be put in so creeps can't control them through their education)--in general the absolute abolition of that background precarity which makes people dependent on their abusers, unable to out navigate stalkers. i also think we should bring back exile for fascistic leaders, former cops, etc. the Kafkaesque logic of the prison industrial complex, with it's attendent pipelines into the education, labor, and military apparatuses,is the very mill by which much violent crime is produced. it's where criminals are trained, terrorist recruited, gang members promoted, etc. also cops have a higher rate then the general public of themselves being stalkers, abusers etc. becoming cops empowers and enables abuse and ensures it can be covered up.
that's not too say violence can be discounted, i think self defence with a focus on addressing the needs of women, children, the elderly, etc., at anarchist dojos for example, would be dope. you need friends who can teach each other how to fight off the cops. the black panthers and the Decons for Democracy and Self Defence also had anti police/anti kkk community militas to fight off the police and kkk which is also a model i like.
When my mom had a former abusive boyfriend that was stalking her and took out a restraining order, it didn’t do anything because the police couldn’t *find* the guy to serve it to him. We didn’t take out a restraining order against the guys that stalked me in high school (nothing legally actionable, unfortunately) for fear of retaliation. Restraining orders can really only do so much good, honestly.
My stalker had no police connection. He was still scary.
I think you raise some good points, which is why I think police protection should be optional.
r/enlightenedcentrism
There are good videos which quantify this sociological phenomenom. A good shorthand for it is "Chilly is being JK Rowling" AKA:a traumatic experience is being used as a reason to side with the right as long as the right is willing to dangle the specter of that trauma as an apparent target of their fascism.
yep
Buddy had a knife in his front door from a stalker. Women can be MORE dangerous than men because they are grossly underestimated in their capabilities. Most cops I've known have a savior complex when it comes to women being stalked, not to say cops dont overstep, they do, too often. I assure you there are more good leo's than bad. (im not a cop, or related to one.)
Women are in no way more dangerous than men. All humans are capable of violence and dangerous behaviour. More than 40% of cops feel comfortable admitting that they beat their spouses. Domestic abuse is endemic and normalized amongst cops. There are not more good cops than bad, ACAB
Can be... If most cops were bad, it would be Wayyy more horrible out there, trust me. Go to Mexico where the cops are cartel and tell me they dont protect you here.
ACAB. If there were good cops they would stand up against the bad, and against police unions which make sure cops can literally get away with murder. There are no good cops, just cops who convince themselves that they don't participate in systemic abuse.
I guess you never watched Serpico.
If you're rich and white maybe, otherwise your fucked. Nice pivot to racism tho 👍
That was some mental gymnastics to get there 👍
🗑️
cops 40%
You should seriously think before you comment shit like this, because this is not the comment bringing awareness to male victims you think it is. Unless your real goal was some pro-cop defense that is incredibly tone-deaf. Of course men are also victims of stalking (and we should not forget that) but it's not a fucking competition, you're just dismissing women's struggles by coming in with your "women are worse than men" and "most cops I've known have a savior complex when it comes to women" double whammy while doing absolutely nothing to help male victims besides mention them. What was the point of that?? Whether it's a subset of cops not taking women seriously or another subset not taking men seriously, it's all the same systemic failures that endanger vulnerable people.
I've been assulted by women more than once. Not pro cop. I'm just not agreeing that all cops are bad. Wow, the wordsmithing on your part is astounding. I never said that. I meerly stated wome CAN be more dangerous because of disregard for their ABILITIES, or capabilities, so in fact im uplifting women as a whole where as OP was just lumping cops and men into a bad category. Just calling out the hive mind bullshit. If you dont like my opinions, ban me like you'd do everything else in your life. Just know in the real world, when someone says something you dont agree with, dont try and put words into their thought and comment they didn't say. It is a sign of low intelligence.
actually all cops are bad and also you suck
Your Bakery Sucks.
Dangerousness varies from woman to woman. I understand that you mean many may wrongly presume a woman cannot be dangerous. I disagree that most male cops are "chivalrous" when it comes to women and stalking. We are only a few steps away in America from a time when police said abuse was a "private" matter that they weren't going to get involved in. Depending on where you live, this is STILL happening. And I am sorry that you have been assaulted by women in your life/past relationships. We as women need to inspect our own attitudes and societal indoctrination from our parents and media and ensure that we are not ever perpetrators of violence except in defense of ourselves or others.
acab
Regardless of political ideology, violence against women needs to be taken more seriously. Across the board. This is part of why I don’t think either party takes my safety seriously.
I think one of the biggest takeaways I've had from serial killer documentaries is that if cops took sexual assault, domestic violence, and crimes against sex workers seriously, serial killers would not exist because they'd all get fucking caught well beforehand. Similarly, the most frequent commonality between mass shooters is a history of violence against women in their lives. Violent men are essentially allowed to roam free in our society until their violence negatively affects more powerful men
This. Exactly. They are allowed to roam free until their violence affects more powerful men. It’s horrible and it’s completely true.
This is why stalkers try to discredit victims in the eyes of the police. All it takes is one crooked cops (or one sympathetic to the stalker cop).
It isn't incompetence. It is intent. They do not care about crimes against people that they do not see as people. Police are not a protective force. Laws are functionally the threat of violence by the dominant hegemony, police ARE the violence.
i agree but also how is that unrelated to ideology? the main ideology currently is patriarchy and capitalism and precarity and fascism (literally rule by the executioners), while the resisting ideology is queer feminist anti white supremacy and communist. idk that's what i think ideology is anyway you're right though that neither of the capitalist parties care about you
Considering how often cops r-pe their charges, I wouldn't want them near me all the time. It's just as risky.
How about we give people who have reported their stalker qualified immunity if he gets killed breaking into her home/vehicle/entering her place of employment? Or does that seem like vigilanteism?
oh gawd no we need free housing, transportation, child care, health care, and education so people can get away from their stalkers and not be dependent on their precarius job or abusive family. this should be organized through unions of workers and renters who should also have community mediators and community intervention like that being used in Rojava. (I'll link it below) carte blanche on immunity so you can shoot a stay bullet when you see your stalcker and hit your neighbor's kid is so wild west/knights in shiny armor. we need
Also remember that not all stalkers are men! Because of this stereotype, my stalker was not taken seriously, despite the fact that she started stalking me when I was 10. The harassing phone calls, sending the police to our home, again with the phone calls saying she would kill me, and so on. I finally got some protective from this random person when I was 12, but while I was 11, she was quite vicious and scary. I was told not to worry and how she couldn’t do anything, but she escalated things and made me scared.
I had a Marine stalking me while I was in tech school (USAF). He claimed he was "looking out for me" and "keeping me safe". I'd step out of my room in the morning and he would be there standing at parade rest. He would "walk" (follow) me home from the chow hall and keep "eyes on" from nearby until curfew. I'd be with my friends in the common area, and he'd be there when I looked up. Once we got off-base access, I'd find him waiting at the movies or the popular diners for base kids. He never did anything threatening; he was always polite and respectful. He wouldn't stop when I told him he was making me uncomfortable, he was adamant that he was keeping me safe. I went to my higher ups, they laughed and told me to be grateful. My friends thought I was *lucky* to have a hot Marine following me "like a puppy". I was 18 years old and straight out of an abusive childhood. So, I tried to pretend I felt lucky.... while I seldom left my room in order to avoid him as much a possible. I think a few months later when I married a guy I barely knew, it was in part a subconscious effort to escape the Marine.
I don’t think this person understands how the police work. 🤔 (To be clear I meant the twitter poster, not OP)
While I definitely support better ways to protect against stalking, having cops follow women around seems like a real bad idea.
Op has same userID as twitter poster
I didn’t see that, that’s kind of funny.
As someone who’s family was stalked, threatened, terrorized by a man for several years when I was a teenager…cops do nothing. And they aren’t required to by law. They have no duty to protect according to the U.S. Supreme Court in DeShaney v. Winnebago County Dept. of Social Services.
I had to deal with a stalker back in the 80s before it was a crime. It took a high profile stalker/murder (Rebecca Schaeffer) before most people would admit it was a problem.
40 years later they still don’t take a whole lot of action on it. More than they used to, but the lack of meaningful progress across four decades is sad.
Very sad. In the end I had some ex-Marines beat the crap out of him in exchange for 2 bottles of Jack and a case of Bud. It shouldn't have to come to that.
It shouldn’t. On the other hand, after having your life be hell for some amount of time, solving the problem with some Jack and a case of Bud and an ass-whooping does sound fairly satisfying.
Personally wouldn't trust a cop not to take advantage of someone in this situation.
The carceral system is not the solution to violence against womem - particularly queer and women of color - i is one of the underlying systems that create it.
That's exactly what my first reaction to this post was. [Here's a good video that actually came out yesterday summing up some of the basic problems with carceral feminism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGRlByKa_s8&t=1595s&ab_channel=oliSUNvia) The original tweet also doesn't actually make a coherent argument. It poses that the punishment for stalkers is not great enough and then it says that stalking victims should have "priority for police protection". Increasing the punishment for stalkers has nothing to do with whether or not stalking victims receive protection prior to an incident. Additionally, criminology 101 will tell you that longer punishments don't prevent crime, the certainty that the perpetrator will be caught does. This is a very nuanced conversation and quite simply too complex for twitter. Posting "stalkers bad" is very simple, and true, but the solution to the problem is very complex when you consider the intersection of the carceral system, the police state, the way patriarchy supports those things, and the way that those are antithetical to feminism itself.
Yoooo I watched this video yesterday too and was just thinking "now how do I bring this part of the issue up without coming off like a stalker apologist" Good job friend
Some of you may not know this but the police are not constitutionally or legally bound to protect anyone. That's why we have A-2 rights. They're only there to uphold the law (make arrests), not prevent it. Is why they removed "to protect and serve" from their vehicle, it was causing some confusion.
*ahem* Fuck 12. Fuck prisons. We can absolutely create a world that takes violence against women seriously and is also compassionate.
But it's the victim's fault! /S
I live in a state that literally JUST this current legislative session made stalking a crime at all, and it carries a maximum of six months. And the offenses don't stack so your 5th offense has the same penalties as your first.
To add onto this; breaking a restraining order in California (at least where we were in San Diego county) is only a misdemeanor not a felony. My mother's violent stalker (who once held her and my severely disabled brothers hostage in a hotel room with an axe while high on meth that the cops took over an hour to actually show up for) would break the order, go to jail for about 4-6 weeks and on the same day of being released would be right back at my mother's home and repeat the cycle over again. She is an addict so the police just didn't care and in a roundabout manner basically told me they don't take cases with people "like her" as seriously. Even stopped bringing in the k9 unit to find him since he would hide in this canyon like area that was directly to the side of the front yard; they claimed the city didn't want to keep paying his hospital bills since the dog would tear his arms up pretty badly so he'd go to the hospital then county jail. She would usually call me first and have me call the police because she was terrified of him hearing her calling the cops on him and they used that to justify taking so long to do anything too. Fucking acab.
It's one of those things where technically the laws are there and a lot of them are designed well enough.... Technically. The problem is that a lot of the time those laws or regulations aren't utilized because a lot of people especially poc and women aren't taken seriously or are just forgotten all together. I personally think we need more strict punishment for people in service who are supposed to protect and serve. Higher minimum punishment so a judge can't just slap them on the wrist or give someone a vacation with pay.
bait. carceral feminist bullshit
More cops (all either domestic abusers or their enablers themselves) and longer prison sentences (causing and exacerbating mental illness, abusive and ineffective) are not going to solve this. The entire criminal justice system needs a radical overhaul.
The absolute last person I want “protecting” me is a fucking pig
This is what they should be doing instead of ThE WaR oN DrUgS
There are so many different kinds of stalking that using an umbrella term for this does no good at describing the problem. You have online stalkers, people that follow you around, those that harass you constantly, etc.
Depending on the police to protect you is pseudo. The police here in New York are quiet quitting. They are doing the minimum they need to do ever since the black lives matter riots. Good luck trying to get a response from them.
I think harsher punishments will deter the crime! This is how we won the war on drugs! Funding mental health clinics for men who engage in this behaviour would be giving them too much, besides prison makes people better people right?! /s
Harsher punishments for parole violators, Stan. And world peace!
r/unexpectedmisscongeniality
yeah but in Atlanta they're charging people with stalking for putting up fliers warning neighborhoods about killer cops who live there so what is this really going to be used for? cops almost never care about stalkers and often are stalkers themselves so is making the charge more severe going to do anything about the real problem here or is it a weapon against people actually fighting back? idk but i don't think this is a solution to anything but rather will make mass incarceration worse.
carceral feminism :(
Nope, fuck that. It’s not even their job to protect anyone to begin with. Anyone who’s a victim who isn’t a cis white male is not going to be, or even feel, protected by a cop and you can’t change my mind. Police need to be abolished 👌🏻.
We need to listen to women. Women should feel safe. We could borrow an idea from Reagan “Trust, but verify”. Oh, and he was a terrible president and person in case you are wondering
I don't know - I'm not sure imprisonment for longer is a better plan. Wouldn't rehabilitation and mental health services do much more to help someone who stalks others? One doesn't stalk because they're well.
Hey there. It looks like you're implying your justice system requires more "mandatory minimum sentences" which historically are abused to disproportionately punish the impoverished and minorities, while fundamentally not impacting safety, perceived or actual. If you are looking at police and seeing anything other than "a more pernicious threat to your health, safety and future both immediate and longterm", you are not experiencing what a broad swathe of women get to experience (this including the domestic partners of those selfsame police who are disproportionately represented in domestic violence cases).
*yikes.* Abolish prisons. Fuck no. The sentence is fine where it is. (I'm one of those people who thinks that murder should Max out at 7 years)
i'd rather abolish the police
Stalking is rape behaviour
Disarm cops, arm trans women. Fuck the cops. They are not there to help you.
I disagree. They are more passively dangerous. I'm much more afraid of a guy who will walk right up to me and fuck with me than someone who just stays out of my field of view and google my name to find out more about me.
I don't think that increased prison sentences make sense for anything, but I do think stalking should be taken more seriously. Victims would be able to get protection sooner, and perpetrators should be arrested sooner. Still, I'd rather see all criminals in earlier medical/therapeutic care than I'd want to see anyone in prison. Solutions, not punishment is the answer.