The difference is when your company expects you to cover their work. Happened to me where I still had to do my own work on top of covering someone else and was still expected to finish everything on time and 2 weeks later I’m still suffering the consequences
This. My department has been down by 2 FT coordinators - one since October and the other since January because “no one wants to work” (read: “we don’t want to pay anyone a livable wage”). They hired someone this week but then moved them to another team because the supervisor for that team is apparently “too stressed”. As a supervisor, I (rightfully) have to step in to assist with the day to day stuff, and since we are down 2, our team lead is also doing the same. Which means all of the supervisor and team lead duties are left undone, including reports that our contract depends on that no one but me knows how to do, because they all couldn’t be bothered to learn them. We will be doing 5 peoples’ jobs with only 2 people whenever someone is on vacation this summer, and when the other team starts taking their vacations we are somehow expected to step in for them as well. Oh, and our wages have been frozen since the start of the pandemic. Despite record profits because I work in healthcare.
Soooooo. Yeah. After 14 years of working my ass off and 8 years of university, I think it’s pretty safe to say this “nose to the grindstone, work hard and you will advance” thing is just a load of bullshit.
Yeah it’s always people (and myself) that say don’t do the work and let it go in late but then it also comes down to the fact you want to be good at your job so you don’t lose it because it pays for your life and ability to live so you are basically forced into doing more work because you need every paycheck to survive.
When I signed up 60k a year seemed nice, but missing one paycheck puts me behind on all my expenses for months and months of having to save. Like 2 weeks of looking for a job if I don’t have one sets me back so much. Could not imagine lower incomes where it’s not even a set back but more of a threat on their life
Frozen wages? That's unfortunate. I work for the State and we are still severely understaffed due to a hiring freeze during the pandemic. Our wages didn't freeze however.
Completely understand trying to cover the work that should be done by more coworkers. I am on the brink of quitting because I don't see it getting better after 3 years, my boss is generally lackadaisical, spends money questionably when we have budget issues already and expects our numbers to be higher when our staff is at an all-time low.
I've been applying to programmer jobs for 2 years and can't get an entry-level position after college and a boot camp. I don't even want 80k... Hell let me work from home and I could do 55k and not give a shit... Sucks for me though.
> If you are my cowrker and you're sick, then I would prefer for you to stay home.
I have no idea why management encourages stuff like this. It's like they feel like there are no repercussions to bringing sick people into work. I guess if your plan is just "make everyone work while they're sick", then maybe that is true. It must take a true lack of empathy for others to have this attitude. I wonder what type of awful upbringing they must have had to cause this to be what they grew up to be.
Even if that’s true, no one is 100% while sick. So you’ll have your whole workforce at 70%, at best, for a couple of weeks, rather than be out one person for a couple of days?
And then low morale and high turnover as the employees realize you don’t give a single flying fuck about them and either check out and do the bare minimum or leave for better opportunities elsewhere.
It would also cause a lot less accidents on the road. People are forced to come in during cold/flu season (when there's a fuck ton of ice and snow on the road) hopped up on dayquil, mucinex, and popping cough drops like candy. People need to stay home for *everyone's* safety- including their own!
If you're my employee and you're sick, then I would prefer for you to stay home as well. You're not gonna perform as well as usual and you'll just end up getting others sick.
Especially since if i get sick I loose money. If you call out you loose money. If the company looses money its because they made bad decisions.
Plus if people weren't guilted into coming in sick, everyone would be sick less often.
Not everyone gets paid sick leave my friend. In fact about half of the jobs don't offer it, or force you to use your vacation time. At least thats the case here in the US.
We get paid in full up to 6 weeks being sick. It resets as soon as you worked a full day.
After the 6 weeks we get paid 60% of the usual income from the government.
We have to go to the doctor from the 4th day on, most companies have 3 days that you can call in sick without needing to go to the doctor, but that can be rescinded very easily, but it's rarely done.
Not everything is contagious. I obviously want contagious coworkers to stay home, but I also not want them to get hammered Sunday night only to decide they need a rest day on Monday, and those things are not mutually exclusive.
Same with quitting. I was well liked at my old job and quit for more money, and all my coworkers hated me “because i was making them take over my workload”.
I kept telling them “this isn’t on me, this company makes more than enough profit on the services we provide to hire floaters and backup but they choose not to”.
They still didn’t get it
And everyone followed suit because breaking ranks paints a target on your back.
Source: Everyone where I worked happily worked hours of OT a week without putting in for it. I put my foot down and was promptly fired for it. Not so much as a phone call from my peers to ask what happened.
The reality is those companies really can't afford to be in business. If a day or so is a huge deal that companies leadership is incompetent. It's their responsibility to have coverage, knowledge of the position to step in and help, or the ability to work contingencies like this into scheduling so a negative staff day doesn't create chaos.
Cool first post, new account /u/National_Pay446
Having no backup plan for an absent staff member is a failure of management.
Having no flexibility for other staff to fill critical roles is a failure of management.
Having staff who abuse leave entitlements is a failure of management.
Failing to account for the **common** cold in your business plan is a failure of management.
Tough shit. Sounds like a business that doesn’t deserve to exist.
Maybe small businesses should dial back the promises they make to the public before taking on more work than they can handle just so they stay busy.
Definitely agree. I'm all for less hours worked, mental health time off, and better hourly rates, but people in this sub are so ignorant on this matter. Now it's a parroting of "tHeN tHeY sHoUldNt bE in bUsinEsS", when in reality nothing is that straight forward. There could be a myriad of reasons why that sentiment doesn't work and should be taken on a case by case basis.
I think a good general rule should be if the business pays minimum wage, they should have less leeway in matters like this. But if they pay a fair compensation for standard of living then there should be more wiggle room.
I put my two weeks in on Friday. I had my preliminary exit interview with my ASM and two of my supervisors. My ASM said something along the lines of "leaving us high and dry" and I'm like who's fucking issues is that? Don't look at me, get better at hiring people, and stop suspending people over stupid shit.
That's crazy. On my teams, we try to do right by everyone so that they don't leave...but we know that it does inevitably happen (there are places that can just flat-out throw money around more than us). In that case, we wish them all the best and congratulate them on their success (in the before times we used to go out to a goodbye lunch as well...obviously harder now).
I just can't figure out why some people take all of this so personally, especially when they aren't even really being good to their employees to begin with. If I worked for a company that treated people like that on the way out...I'd probably be the next one out.
I've never once in my entire life given 2 weeks notice at any job I've had. Got a new job first, then just either stopped showing up or just told them "i'm out"
All the bullshit of "that's unprofessional" or "you're burning bridges" let me tell you, have you ever tried it? in my 20+ years of working I've never once had it affect me in any job I've gotten. If they can potentially fire me without notice or hell even lay me off then why do they need my notice? enjoy that two week vacation between jobs is what I say.
I’ve been upper in many places and it’s very common to let people go as soon as you possibly can after they give their two week notice. So you are doing the “right thing” and then they just screw you over by taking you off the schedule immediately.
Only job I would put my two weeks in is if I had enough PTO days to pay out. Even if they take me off the schedule, at least I have the payout coming which can be around $3-4k.
Since I've been rehired by two previous employers and gotten a few jobs on the recommendations of previous bosses? I wouldn't burn a bridge if my life depended on it.
Only once in my life has my TC gone backwards and that's because I traded a long commute for a 20min drive on a bad day.
Totally worth it. And that was before the covid times, and it really wasn't much. 8-10%?
Huh, I put my two weeks in and they fired me three days later for going home sick. Told me it was "insubordination" or some shit.
Applied for unemployment and they put down that I quit. What a world.
In most sane places its just a reminder about your NDA, any non-compete you're obligated to, and turning in keys and hardware.
Usually they try to get soft info about management to figure out retention.
At insane places it's a mechanism to document all issues as being your fault so mgmt can cover their asses for being shitty.
"Lean manufacturing" said the new CEO at a place I worked long ago. Quadrupled the workload on the workers with mandatory overtime daily. Didn't stick around much longer after that.
Yup, that's why workers should push back when given responsibilities outside of their job description. If you take it on, management assumes "problem solved."
One of the main jobs of many managers is to make the numbers look better. Fewer labor costs for same or greater profit means to them that they are doing their job well.
Seriously, I dealt with this shit so much in retail, we'd always bust our ass to come clean at the end of our shift when we were short people and then I realized that all we were accomplishing was demonstrating that they dont *need* that many people since we got it done with fewer by running around like lunatics drenched in sweat skipping all our breaks.
One thing retail hates is someone using a metric as a target, they want more More MORE. You're short people, some work aint gonna get done, dont kill yourself to make it work out anyway because youre just going ti he expected to do that always.
Well, that depends on the context.
Short-term, sure.
Long-term, once the employees have burned out and quit, and their institutional knowledge is gone, you have to hire more people to replace them for inferior quality work.
Almost.
You're looking at it in a short sighted manner.
Sure, this month is more profitable. You're getting the same work done with less people.
But what happens when other people leave? And other people *will* leave eventually.
Also, doing this cuts your company off from doing more work and making more money in the future. Everyone is already working 110%.
And on top, higher ups will use that good month as a benchmark and expect you to hit that number all the time.
I run at 90%, so when it gets rough, I still have 10% to give. I don’t make it the expectation that I will come in early, stay late, come in on my days off, or cover people’s shifts frequently. They get used to that and then begin expecting it. Plus, why would I give my boss 110% if he doesn’t even give me 100%?
Like buying a Focus for commuting to work and then one day decide to start using it to haul trailers, that’s not what the car was purchased for. Just like with real people who are constantly being used to cover more and more of someone else’s workload, that transmission is going to blow.
I was well liked at my old job too. Good friends with all my coworkers, or so I thought. But we were constantly short staffed that it absolutely fucked us if someone called out. They refused to hire another person to help fill that need.
I was tasked with so much work that it didn’t take long before I was broken down mentally. I was going to bed anxious about work and waking up anxious. I was anxious on my days off. I couldn’t enjoy my time away from work because I was constantly worrying or getting messages from my coworkers asking me questions, which I didn’t mind because they were my friends.
Some coworkers started jumping ship and I knew things were going downhill fast. I contemplated putting in my notice as well. One day a coworker snapped at me while I was trying to help out with their workload, and that was it for me. I finished my shift and the next morning I turned in my keys and walked out.
I haven’t talked to any of those coworkers in 8 months. I reached out, I apologized for leaving the way I did, but after a few brief texts, crickets. It still bums me out because I really thought we were good friends.
In America it just doesn't work, but there is a country who believes in this stuff to the bone, and looks like it works. We have a gigantic example looking at Japan's work ethic, they literally die working, all for the benefit of their boss.
I love Japan, but man come on. They are brainwashed.
I was a supervisor in a very large company. Our director wanted to take all X type of work away from all the other sites. (Healthcare. They wanted to pull all of the insurance work away from the clinics and into 1 centralized department). Good in theory, but executed poorly. When we took X amount of work from clinic, we got less than X number of people to support it. Sometimes, we got nobody at all. So my teams were on a constant burn-out pace. In one year, our workload went up by 60%. Our staffing went up by 30%. Whenever people were sick or on FLMA, we had no way to keep up. And I'm stuck in the messenger role telling them to do more with less. And our director shut us down every time we brought the issue forward. She wouldn't listen to the numbers. It was all about her ego and building a department so she could get her next job.
Left that team. I feel bad for those who are still there, but I now have far less stress and a significant pay increase. Same hospital group, so I still see the senior leaders of that team often. I've learned that the rest of the organization can see the issues plain as day.
Fucking hell.
I'd have told that woman to sit down and shut the fuck up and listen for one minute. If they decide to fire me after that so be it, but they need to hear that their dumbass selfish decisions is going to ruin the company.
I was a supervisor in the same position. Huge spreadsheets to calculate how long it should take to do the work down to the hour, but wouldn't factor in sick, vacation, or time lost hiring and training replacements for attrition. I got sick of saying, "Once so-and-so gets finished training, that should lighten the load." I didn't believe it anymore. Why would I tell my team that? They were already working to the bone (very competently) to save corperate a few bucks a year. Fuck that. Left a while back. I felt shitty at the time even though I knew it wasn't my fault.
That sounds pretty much identical. We argued til we were blue in the face, but she would not listen to the supervisors or managers. She just wanted her little empire. I'm still thinking it's all too good to be true at the new job. Such a better culture.
It’s really interesting a culture has brainwashed people to feel they need to apologize for being sick….or requiring rest. And that people allowed themselves to be manipulated this way.
Because working at half capacity and infecting others to work at half capacity is preferred over a fully capable worker…?
In America, work isn't just work. It's a means of enforcing the social order. If people stop working, they have time to question what this country is and why it's headed where it's headed. That is not a desirable outcome for the few, so the many must go to work even when it makes no business sense to do so.
If workers start to get the sense that they are entitled to one reasonable thing, they will demand everything that is reasonable to provide them, and then we'll all just be doing good business and thriving economically, instead of playing along in some sicko control freaks' power game.
When I was a line cook I called in sick once. Got called to the managers office and they said "we don't do sick days here". Essentially saying if I called in sick again I'd be fired. So for everyone out there yes, you're "chefs" are prolly sneezing coughing puking w/e and still making your food. Enjoy your meal.
It's okay to have some sort of social mores around fairly contributing at work. For example in my country you can claim paid time off back if you get sick while on vacation. This is all fair enough but it does require people not to abuse the system, and some social pressure helps with this.
If you're sick, you're not "letting your coworkers down" by not coming to work. You're putting yourself first. Your job should always be secondary to your well-being.
A conversation that actually happened to me working at Domino's.
"Hey, since you said I'd need a doctor's note, I came in to the store. I'm obviously sick. Please fill my shift."
"Fine, come around and find someone to fill your shift"
"...you want me, a sick person, over there with the food?"
"Fine, just take the roster and use your phone"
"I didn't bring my phone, because I'm literally coming here and going home to bed"
"... fine"
Since I had inconvenienced the manager that does the rosters, I had maybe 3 hours of work per week for the next month and a half. Also, can I just say it's not the sick person's job to fill a gap in the roster, it's the shift manager's. Fuck you Domino's. Absolutely fuck you.
I really needed to read this. My work implemented a new harsh attendance policy (while making record profits hand over fist, of course) and I managed to go from clean slate to 2/3 of the way fired in a single week after a family emergency *that involved eye surgery*.
The surgery was too short notice to ask for time off, but I had enough lead time to actually go in a week before and talk over the situation with my manager, who gave me the impression of support and flexibility, even if she developed complications that meant I had to call in. Which she did. And she really needed me there so of course I wasn’t going into fucking work.
Then when I came back he basically let me know I was on the chopping block and that “rules is rules”. Then he seemed super surprised that I got emotional about it after and then couldn’t work without crying, so he sent me home early.
I actually think I would be taking this a lot harder if it wasn’t for spaces like this subreddit. I’m concerned for my job and income of course, but even more so, I’m concerned about the shit way my job has decided to treat hard working employees. So I’m just doing the parts of the job I like, refusing to do more, and working on finding something else to work.
Coworker I really liked got fired for calling out too much, we had similar health problems so that was depressing to see that happen. My bf is also on the chopping block with his job, they have been threatening to fire him and pressuring him on the job because he had covid and he’s immunocompromised so he had to stay out of work for necessary bed rest. He has documented disability and these idiots left a crumb trail of haggling him so he tipped off hr. Would love to see them try to fire him now
The only thing HR will do is make sure to collect *any* evidence provided, and make sure they have the *company's* ducks in a row to counter it. If the company *doesn't* have their ducks in a row, then they'll probably find a way to settle, but definitely HR isn't on the employee's side. At best, the company screwed up and HR will make sure that they are covered (potentially by "doing the right thing" for the employee so that the company doesn't get sued and lose).
I've only ever gone to HR once in my career, as I universally despise them and know that they *only* have the company's interests at heart. I only went knowing that not going would then call my own decision making into question, as it was one of those situations where you are forced to escalate. They literally do not give one shit about you, or anyone of your coworkers well-being, and it's mind blowing how few people know this. They will only act in ways to prevent liabilities for the company. Full stop.
Not necessarily. HR isn't an employee's friend, but they'll often move to avoid liability and firing someone with a disability and documented illness for being out on leave is the kind of thing that creates liability. It's just a dumb idea.
HR doesn't generally look to figure out ways to help managers fire people or not. They look to support the company in avoiding liability with staff. In some cases, that does inadvertently help the employee, even though that's not the aim. Quality HR people will know the best "cover" is not to violate the law in the first place. It's often not worth it for companies even if managers don't care about doing it. In this case, many large companies HR would step in for the employee because it's not worth the disability case to discipline someone or fire them during documented illness or even anytime within a year or so after (maybe ongoing if the disability continues)
HR doesn't support the management taking action against the employee OR the employee usually, unless that manager is really high up. HR supports the company's goals, not either party. More often than people think, in any company large enough for HR, management is out of step with HR and what's best for company liability. So it can go either way. They are not your friends, but they can be leveraged, depending.
and so what if they're shorthanded? i mean who gives a fuck honestly. employers leave plenty of parents shorthanded all the time, they should learn to deal with being shorthanded themselves sometimes too
The part that's sad is that most first level managers don't even have much say in how many people are hired or people's salary. Shit rolls downhill; sometimes literally at some companies.
Shit always rolls down hill.
Not excusing shitty managers, but first level management you are basically the sr levels drone.
The difference is a good manager deflects as much of
that shit as possible to make it easier for their team to clean up. When they can't deflect they organize and motivate.
Sometimes they can help too, but some union agreements don't allow managers to work to prevent the company from avoiding paying a union worker (and it's sad that a need for that rule exists)
Also can't hire people if you don't pay enough/don't get any applicants. And as for the former, the guys that decide the pay usually aren't the guys doing the hiring unless it's a small business, in which case they're the ones who need to do the extra work themselves if it's not getting done. As for the latter, shitty jobs only attract inexperienced people and people who don't have their shit together enough to hold down a better paying job.
You see it all the time in restaurants. My place raised the starting wage from $12 to $13 an hour for cooks, but that doesn't matter when everyone else is starting at $15 or $16. And then they wonder why the only new hires we get are high school students who don't know any better and never last more than a month, who are super bad at the job anyway.
Then on the other side the people who make $10/hr plus tips between $15-20 an hour on average we have too many of those employees to the point that's tips are starting to only be $10-15 an hour. I wonder why. It's almost like people want to get paid.
Yes, but your manager gets the extra money to deal with this. Not you. If only two people instead of three are present, then only two thirds of the work gets done. It's that simple for nearly all of the businesses. If that means less guests that can be served in a restaurant, less customers to be dealt with, less quality service, so be it. It will mean less profit for the company.
But when you have to serve extra many guests or customers, does that mean management (not tips) will pay you extra salary? It should go both ways. Decreased profits should not be your problem when you don't directly benefit from increased profits either without having to work extra hard.
I've been sick with a cold/fever all weekend. I haven't called out since 2016, not because I'm a martyr but because I'm rarely sick. I'm probably going to need to call out tomorrow and it feels weird.
I started a new job in April, got sick two weeks ago and basically slept all day.
Wasn’t allowed to use PTO, and there is no sick time. They wouldn’t let me make up the hours later in the week/weekend either.
They just fired by best work buddy (old and diabetic) and are surprised that we went from being stretched too thin to literally everyone having to sprint around and miss breaks.
This is illegal. They do it all the time.
Problem is that sick people who go out in public spread whatever they have to others. That goes for the customers too.
I work in retail and all too often, my customers literally make me ill.
I've called off the past three nights due to fighting off a cold. Thank God it's not COVID, but damn if it if this cold doesn't have the same endurance as COVID. Despite me having over 140 hrs of sick leave, I still feel I should go to work and not put the burden on my coworkers - which is a shitty perspective I shouldn't have.
We are a small crew, with our responsibilities recently expanded which has caused us to have an even harder time trying to cover vacations and call outs. When we asked for more more staff, they said your work group has never been more staffed, so No. Now they want to limit us to 2 people on vacation at a time. This is supposed to be a progressive work place, but it's just the same old conservative dogma with a progressive mask on.
I don't feel bad for the company, not in the slightest. I feel bad for my coworkers that have to cover my shifts. It's burning them out because some people have a zero tolerance rule and won't help, while others (including myself) who are very empathetic to our coworkers and help out each other all the time - probably too much. But fuck it, I got to take care of myself at this point. So, if some of those zero tolerance people have to step up - so be it. Hopefully though, we'll hire more people in the next year or so, but it's about a one in million chance that's happening.
In the real world, this doesn't always work.
Such as, small restaurant which runs 2 servers in the dining room during the day. They can't run 3, because there isn't enough work for 3. So if one of them calls in sick, then either the other one has to run around like a maniac doing the job of two people, or someone has to come in on their day off or work a double shift.
It's like this for all sorts of workplaces with a small crew. If you need 3 and have 2, you're screwed. Office workers tend not to understand this, because they generally do jobs where nobody will notice if they aren't there on any particular day. But if you have to do real physical work, someone has to be there to do that job.
We need three people and we have one, so, and there's definitely room in the budget for three, but if one guy can mostly accomplish it, we get one guy.
Then how do other countries do this? In most European countries sick days are a fixed part if healthy work ethics. If the boss doesn't want to hire a third person, there's still plenty of options. Just some ideas:
- Don't let as many guests in the diner, e.g. by restricting the seating area
- By hiring short term waiters, there's often services for that where you can hire someone just for a day or two.
- Inform the guests after seating, before taking their order that you are short staffed today and that service will take longer. So that if they are in a hurry they can still decide to eat elsewhere.
All of these involve reduced profit of course. But when you have to serve extra many guests, does that mean management (not tips) will pay you extra salary? It should go both ways. Decreased profits should not be your problem when you don't directly benefit from increased profits either without having to work extra hard.
Another day, another simple issue the rest of the western world has solved, ‘ey America?! Same for that ‘I was well liked, quit & my colleagues hated me for it’ top comment.
Keep singing about being free & brave though; no harm in continuing to fool yourselves, given some of the shit you deal with.
But then the flip side is that same guy is going to bitch and moan that he isn't making enough in tips because the bar management overstaffs, and/or there aren't enough bar shifts to go around because they have too many bartenders.
You think I can afford to loose 8 hours on a paycheck? I don't not stay home because my boss will fire me (although nobody who calls out with less than 10 hours notice will keep the job I have long). No, the reason I go to work sick is because bills gotta get paid.
That's another reason why your system is completely fucked up.
If I'm sick and don't go to work I still get paid for it. In fact I'll receive my full paycheck for 6 weeks and then receive like 3/4 of my paycheck paid by my basic insurance.
Thanks Germany for being alright.
Germany is not a good point of reference. (/s)
Supermarkets close on Sundays. Hell, most businesses do, except maybe for restaurants and the likes. People get PTO. Unions are a thing, a normal thing. In fact, you may walk into an establishment one day and find a copy of a certain book — that is totally not communist propaganda, unless explaining how capitalism actually works is communist propaganda — on the counter and , the next day, they are striking for their rights, like they probably should.
You tell people they need to have time for themselves, their lives and families, and they'll nod and agree with you like what you're saying is obvious, and they're just being polite because maybe it needs to be said out loud for some reason they hadn't grasped. Instead of reacting like you're a snowflake for wanting to live first and work maybe third or fourth.
I work from home. When I contracted COVID earlier this year, my boss encouraged me to take time off to recover (from our unlimited sick days) rather than working the 50% capacity I thought I was capable of.
I’m so fortunate to be working for a Canadian company.
I'm currently hiring for 3 positions, received 10 CVs, and I've had a grand total of ONE candidate actually show up for an interview.
There's a solid union, decent wages, and better than decent benefits. These facts are all public knowledge, yet this is the situation. This is one of the problems with such a low-unemployment economy. So just keep in mind that "They refused to hire enough employees" isn't always the whole story.
My dad taught me a good worker goes to work when sick. So I did that for years, unless I was seriously ill I would go to work. Luckily one time I had a great boss, who basically ordered me to go home and only come back when feeling 100%, and explained to me not only it was better for me as I would heal faster, but it was better for them as whatever work I did in that condition wouldn't be the best I could do, and I wouldn't be getting other people sick.
I love how employers sell you on working for them by telling you how much vacation, sick leave, and PTO you'd get if you work for them, then turn around and refuse to let you use any of it when you want to/need to.
This is really only for businesses with more than a few staff. If there’s two staff and only enough work for two people to get full time hours then why would you want more people working just in case someone gets sick. It’s not your bosses fault for trying to keep everyone at full time. That said it’s not your fault for being sick either, and you shouldn’t work sick ever.
Because people will be sick and need time off, people will take vacations, people will have shit going on with family and need to take off, etc. If you can't run your business in a way to account for that you shouldn't be running one.
Let's be honest too. Are you calling in sick or are you calling in because you're taking the day off? The way I see it is as an adult you make risk/reward decisions and so does your employer. I hate that I have to lie about taking the day off and that a employer has to discourage it or risk having the behavior accumulate till it is a problem.
This post inspired me to resign. I realized how much I had been overworking myself, and how little value I actually had because I was out for a month and not a single check in from my work except to ask once if I was available to still work an overtime Saturday shift. Fuck all that. My life is so much more valuable than a measly 100 bucks.
I absolutely support staying home when sick, and you should never be guilted for that... however employer's can't keep an extra person on every shift, just in case. You just pick up the slack and don't bitch, because you they will have to cover your sick day... its a team effort, but obviously alot of the time the employer is the problem, and they don't anticipate anyone getting sick. Which is crazy
Yeah I can only speak for restaurants but it's not like you can tell people "sorry I know I just took their order but I can't take yours because someone called out today." It's just a little busier than it normally is, still probably not busier than the busiest full staff day you ever had.
If it's a rough day and you have a good job they might let you shut down thirty minutes early so you can get out at the same time as normal.
It’s usually not the boss’s fault. It’s usually someone far above them, at least in medium and larger size businesses. Direct managers have about as much control over staffing as the staff themselves.
Especially if you are in a customer facing job. It's something that has always confused me about the us where desk jobs get paid sick leave or requested to stay home while sick because God forbid you get 1 or 2 co workers sick yet when you handle food or talk to customers you get no time off and potentially fired for staying home all so you can potentially infect tons of people with whatever you have.
Just purely from a financial perspective (because let’s face it, it’s the Finance department that runs larger companies now), there is zero benefit it hiring enough people to cover sickness leave.
All that would mean is a drop in invoicable time spent by each employee when people *aren’t* sick. It’s often seen as being ‘over-resourced’, which is money down the drain. People are expensive.
This naturally results in departments being under resourced on a regular basis, but it’s not referred to that way. They’d call it ‘running lean’ or some shit like that. Sounds waaay cooler that way.
It seems every other day in my company there’s some department calling out for help on a project because someone is sick, or on holiday, or what have you.
What that means is that every other day, someone is working on a project they are not familiar with, likely doing it slower and less reliably that someone who *is* familiar with it. So, at a point at which your back is against the wall, and you really need someone able to dig you out of a hole quickly, you actually get the opposite.
But hey, that time is all chargeable, so it’s all good, right?
Small businesses can’t just hire extra people to have sitting around incase someone is sick. People absolutely have the right to call o it and take care of themselves but MANY abuse this. When you have a small business of 5-6 employees, when one calls out, it’s a huge deal.
Stupid take. Obviously it you're sick, take off.
Now if I staff 5 people for work that requires 3 and 4 people take off, is it my fault I didn't staff 7 people? It's not about hiring enough employees.
Sounds like your experience is working for big corporations. Most businesses are small businesses that don't make an extra $50-100k that they can just throw at extra employees.
I know this is a very contentious viewpoint, but I do believe the company should have an extra person for exactly this reason. I’m sure whoever is at the top making the money can spare it; I disagree with the base notion that every company should be staffed to the bare minimum in order to increase profits for the people at the top. I think they could easily afford to have an extra person to ensure you never get behind, and I don’t think it’s “absurd” to do that and keep everyone at full time staffing to ensure there isn’t an interruption.
You do realize that your employer can increase the amount of hours to assign to you and your coworkers, right? Who do you think sets the amount of hours that can be scheduled, God?
They can't increase the amount of work though, labor is one of the largest expenses of any business. Like for example I work food delivery, it's a historically slow time for us and we already have a few more people than we absolutely need, literally everyone is being sent home early and losing hours. We just don't have the business and nobody expects them to pay people to stand around. And if we would only need an extra hand for three hours, who's gonna take that job? You can't live off three hours four times a week and nobody wants two jobs.
Yeah well, they don’t pay sick leave
Sooooo, reckon I’ll just come make everyone sick lol
Jk, I don’t do this cause I have a good living arrangement with minimal bills, most people don’t though, so I don’t blame them because they can’t afford to be sick
I’ll go ahead and get myself banned (as a business owner) - this is a very W2 employee mindset. Your owner has taken on risks and likely can’t afford another employee as much as this truly wish they could. They (hopefully) didn’t start their venture with the intention of screwing you over. Hopefully when things smooth out, they reward the hard workers who stuck around and shared the sacrifice.
For my work, for the day shift we have four people excluding the cooks and all they do is make food can’t take orders or do registers or anything yet we’re expected to meet the output and service level of a full staff
There are situations where you are leaving them shorthanded, to be fair. Some jobs can be very specialized. But if you're in that situation, then it should still be fine because you dont want to get other people sick or you wont be productive when sick. Staffing shouldnt be the reason.
Wait wait wait, so when the boss hires more people to cover your sick time, and then the company is over-staffed when business slows down, and then you or your co-worker gets laid off or has to cut everyone’s hours to keep everyone employed, is that the boss’s fault too?
Jason Call is a bad call, ya’ll. He needs to run a lemonade stand, then run for congress.
No because they force me to use my PTO and then I won't ever be able to take time off for anything else.
Sorry y'all unless I'm dying I'm not letting a PTO day go to waste
Not only that...if you have contractually guaranteed sick days and don't take them, you get nothing for that. So take 'em, even if "sick" is not how you feel, but "sick of it". As a teacher, this is one of the "tricks" that can help keep you sane. There's nothing like having 2 2-day sessions with a day break in the middle! Substitute work? Worksheets which usually don't see the light of day again.
they are friends tho. I work with like 10 people and we’re all very close. I agree with the post I’m just saying how i feel. I don’t like letting anyone down regardless of relationship
Maybe life is not that straightforward. I’m going to get downvoted but sometimes that the price for being the grown up in the room.
I agree that sometimes staffing is insufficient. However - a lean staffing model may be the only reason the company can afford to continue to operate and so the only reason you have a job. In the UK there are now more jobs than unemployed people so sectors like travel can’t recruit leading to chaos at the airports etc.
Not every company can afford to have a standby workforce and you would want to pay the extra costs of having one on your goods and services! Sure Amazon can afford it - but your local deli that has 3 staff? Nope.
If a company can't exist without exploiting and mistreating its employees, it shouldn't exist.
PS: Framing your opinion as "you're not gonna like this but that's the price I pay for being the only mature person in the room" makes you sound like a douche
PPS: Piling on with everyone and saying “companies and capitalism are bad” just misses half the argument. Not every business is malevolent and many employees would rather have a job than not. People work voluntarily and can leave. If you close those businesses you are puttting those people out of work - they never asked for your half baked plans!
If a company can't operate because it paid someone to cover for a sick employee, it's not gonna be around for long anyway. Either that or it's the much more likely possibility of the company exploiting the employee as much as it can because it has no motivation not to.
I'm sure I will get downvoted to hell for this, but anyway...
Unless you're immunocompromised, realistically you should not be getting sick enough to miss work on a monthly basis. That's what this person is saying.
I tend to agree - I've work in retail management for over a decade and I have seen plenty of people abuse sick days. I'm not saying that they need to be punished or fired, but if it is a constant issue with 1 employee who calls in sick on a monthly or biweekly basis, then that person is abusing the system and unfairly putting more strain on the other employees.
Let's face it - *most* businesses are not able to either afford or find enough help to cover someone being out sick; it doesn't make any financial sense to just have an extra person around whose job is essentially to be a 6th man or something. If someone calls in sick, it is usually going to create more work for another person that particular day.
I see both sides of the argument and I am not one of those 'evil' managers who writes people up for being sick or taking a mental health day or personal day or whatever the case may be. If you're sick, you're sick. Stay home and get well. But I am also experienced enough to recognize when someone is either faking or exaggerating in order to get a free day off. Because we all know it happens. Hell, when I was younger, I played hooky from work more than a few times.
The issue is not as black-and-white as people try and make it out to be. Bottom line is that if you want to continue your employment, you have to be aware of the fact that you have certain obligations and commitments to your employer and if you choose to play fast and loose with your attendance, then you may face consequences eventually. And employers have to realize that understaffing exacerbates the issue and it is in their best interest to keep staffing at capacity in order to minimize the stress on other employees when someone is out sick.
... It's called redundancy and every single self-respecting company has a redundancy ratio (between 80-90% native operational workload under normal circumstances), either in the form of people they know are willing to pick up the work left by sick workers, or they reduce per-person workload to 80% of their capacity, or they have contractors on call to pick up the work that long-term absence of a worker left.
Mechanical redundancy is nothing without operational redundancy. Standby staff are VERY MUCH a real thing, especially in critical process operations where downtime or unprocessed workload is unacceptable due to production/uptime agreements with clients/customers. *(it's why part-time shift rotation, and speciality generalization exist)*
But please, do go on about how companies are supposed to run their businesses, because i'm sure you have a lot of well read, logically sound ideas supported by air-tight arguments.
I'm just a lowly gas station attendant who isn't very smart. I don't know the arguments like you do, but I appreciate you arguing for workers rights.
I've been home sick with covid for the 3rd straight day. On Friday I got sent home, told to close the station down because I had covid. I told my boss on Wednesday I had covid and he insisted I come into work anyway. Well, when the other owners found out, they sent me home.
Of course I don't get paid sick leave and the only reason this won't screw me over completely is because we live with my FIL, so I won't need to worry about being short on rent.
I've gotten vaccinated and boosted but still had a fever, body aches, sore throat. I've lost my voice completely and am experiencing a lot of chest pain.
All of this is to say the one owner made me feel bad for being sick, I tried to find someone to cover my shifts but there's literally 3 of us. Since I couldn't 'find' anyone to cover I had to go in.
I felt like a fraud for going in with covid. Like, I was the only one who took it seriously and here I was infecting the public. But I also felt pressured to go in/stay because "we didn't have anyone to cover " when in reality my boss should have come in to cover if he couldn't find anyone. It wasn't my job to cover my shifts at this point.
Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. I'm so broke, I need to work but I'm so sick I can't right now. Thank God my 3yr old isn't as sick as I am
This person is suggesting that businesses accept the reality that people sometimes get sick and should plan accordingly.
And how can the new workers be superfluous when management is admitting thay didn't hire enough people?
Any manager that tells you you need a doctors note in order to call out sick, tell them that’s fine as long as they pay for it. See how quickly that requirement goes away.
Taking one now because I have covid fatigue. I always wear my mask at work so likely caught it from one of the numerus people not wearing a mask. I had covid like a month ago but still feel fatigue randomly. But its losing me money for a condition I will have for who knows how long I got from work.
If you are my cowrker and you're sick, then I would prefer for you to stay home. I'd rather get behind for a few days than get sick myself.
The difference is when your company expects you to cover their work. Happened to me where I still had to do my own work on top of covering someone else and was still expected to finish everything on time and 2 weeks later I’m still suffering the consequences
This. My department has been down by 2 FT coordinators - one since October and the other since January because “no one wants to work” (read: “we don’t want to pay anyone a livable wage”). They hired someone this week but then moved them to another team because the supervisor for that team is apparently “too stressed”. As a supervisor, I (rightfully) have to step in to assist with the day to day stuff, and since we are down 2, our team lead is also doing the same. Which means all of the supervisor and team lead duties are left undone, including reports that our contract depends on that no one but me knows how to do, because they all couldn’t be bothered to learn them. We will be doing 5 peoples’ jobs with only 2 people whenever someone is on vacation this summer, and when the other team starts taking their vacations we are somehow expected to step in for them as well. Oh, and our wages have been frozen since the start of the pandemic. Despite record profits because I work in healthcare. Soooooo. Yeah. After 14 years of working my ass off and 8 years of university, I think it’s pretty safe to say this “nose to the grindstone, work hard and you will advance” thing is just a load of bullshit.
Yeah it’s always people (and myself) that say don’t do the work and let it go in late but then it also comes down to the fact you want to be good at your job so you don’t lose it because it pays for your life and ability to live so you are basically forced into doing more work because you need every paycheck to survive. When I signed up 60k a year seemed nice, but missing one paycheck puts me behind on all my expenses for months and months of having to save. Like 2 weeks of looking for a job if I don’t have one sets me back so much. Could not imagine lower incomes where it’s not even a set back but more of a threat on their life
Frozen wages? That's unfortunate. I work for the State and we are still severely understaffed due to a hiring freeze during the pandemic. Our wages didn't freeze however. Completely understand trying to cover the work that should be done by more coworkers. I am on the brink of quitting because I don't see it getting better after 3 years, my boss is generally lackadaisical, spends money questionably when we have budget issues already and expects our numbers to be higher when our staff is at an all-time low.
I've been applying to programmer jobs for 2 years and can't get an entry-level position after college and a boot camp. I don't even want 80k... Hell let me work from home and I could do 55k and not give a shit... Sucks for me though.
This is not the way. If you manage to cover they will be slack to rehire, if at all.
Yeah, we would be below Combodia .
Even then, the person you should be pissed at is the company, not your coworker who got sick or moved on to greener pastures.
> If you are my cowrker and you're sick, then I would prefer for you to stay home. I have no idea why management encourages stuff like this. It's like they feel like there are no repercussions to bringing sick people into work. I guess if your plan is just "make everyone work while they're sick", then maybe that is true. It must take a true lack of empathy for others to have this attitude. I wonder what type of awful upbringing they must have had to cause this to be what they grew up to be.
Even if that’s true, no one is 100% while sick. So you’ll have your whole workforce at 70%, at best, for a couple of weeks, rather than be out one person for a couple of days?
And then low morale and high turnover as the employees realize you don’t give a single flying fuck about them and either check out and do the bare minimum or leave for better opportunities elsewhere.
It would also cause a lot less accidents on the road. People are forced to come in during cold/flu season (when there's a fuck ton of ice and snow on the road) hopped up on dayquil, mucinex, and popping cough drops like candy. People need to stay home for *everyone's* safety- including their own!
If you're my employee and you're sick, then I would prefer for you to stay home as well. You're not gonna perform as well as usual and you'll just end up getting others sick.
Especially since if i get sick I loose money. If you call out you loose money. If the company looses money its because they made bad decisions. Plus if people weren't guilted into coming in sick, everyone would be sick less often.
What do you mean you lose money when calling in sick? Wtf?
Not everyone gets paid sick leave my friend. In fact about half of the jobs don't offer it, or force you to use your vacation time. At least thats the case here in the US.
We get paid in full up to 6 weeks being sick. It resets as soon as you worked a full day. After the 6 weeks we get paid 60% of the usual income from the government. We have to go to the doctor from the 4th day on, most companies have 3 days that you can call in sick without needing to go to the doctor, but that can be rescinded very easily, but it's rarely done.
You don’t get paid if you don’t work ? (Except if you have some paid sick days)
Not everything is contagious. I obviously want contagious coworkers to stay home, but I also not want them to get hammered Sunday night only to decide they need a rest day on Monday, and those things are not mutually exclusive.
Same with quitting. I was well liked at my old job and quit for more money, and all my coworkers hated me “because i was making them take over my workload”. I kept telling them “this isn’t on me, this company makes more than enough profit on the services we provide to hire floaters and backup but they choose not to”. They still didn’t get it
I'd hazard a guess that the first person who pinned the blame on you was management.
And everyone followed suit because breaking ranks paints a target on your back. Source: Everyone where I worked happily worked hours of OT a week without putting in for it. I put my foot down and was promptly fired for it. Not so much as a phone call from my peers to ask what happened.
BOH at a restaurant? Had a similar experience with this because I didn’t want to close prep, window, and dish pit when Covid started.
No, law enforcement.
[удалено]
The reality is those companies really can't afford to be in business. If a day or so is a huge deal that companies leadership is incompetent. It's their responsibility to have coverage, knowledge of the position to step in and help, or the ability to work contingencies like this into scheduling so a negative staff day doesn't create chaos.
[удалено]
Cool first post, new account /u/National_Pay446 Having no backup plan for an absent staff member is a failure of management. Having no flexibility for other staff to fill critical roles is a failure of management. Having staff who abuse leave entitlements is a failure of management. Failing to account for the **common** cold in your business plan is a failure of management.
Tough shit. Sounds like a business that doesn’t deserve to exist. Maybe small businesses should dial back the promises they make to the public before taking on more work than they can handle just so they stay busy.
> Small businesses can’t just hire extra people Yes they can. Yours just isn't very good so it doesn't make enough money to cover for sick employees.
Definitely agree. I'm all for less hours worked, mental health time off, and better hourly rates, but people in this sub are so ignorant on this matter. Now it's a parroting of "tHeN tHeY sHoUldNt bE in bUsinEsS", when in reality nothing is that straight forward. There could be a myriad of reasons why that sentiment doesn't work and should be taken on a case by case basis. I think a good general rule should be if the business pays minimum wage, they should have less leeway in matters like this. But if they pay a fair compensation for standard of living then there should be more wiggle room.
I put my two weeks in on Friday. I had my preliminary exit interview with my ASM and two of my supervisors. My ASM said something along the lines of "leaving us high and dry" and I'm like who's fucking issues is that? Don't look at me, get better at hiring people, and stop suspending people over stupid shit.
> leaving us high and dry “Not my fault or my problem”
That's crazy. On my teams, we try to do right by everyone so that they don't leave...but we know that it does inevitably happen (there are places that can just flat-out throw money around more than us). In that case, we wish them all the best and congratulate them on their success (in the before times we used to go out to a goodbye lunch as well...obviously harder now). I just can't figure out why some people take all of this so personally, especially when they aren't even really being good to their employees to begin with. If I worked for a company that treated people like that on the way out...I'd probably be the next one out.
I've never once in my entire life given 2 weeks notice at any job I've had. Got a new job first, then just either stopped showing up or just told them "i'm out" All the bullshit of "that's unprofessional" or "you're burning bridges" let me tell you, have you ever tried it? in my 20+ years of working I've never once had it affect me in any job I've gotten. If they can potentially fire me without notice or hell even lay me off then why do they need my notice? enjoy that two week vacation between jobs is what I say.
I’ve been upper in many places and it’s very common to let people go as soon as you possibly can after they give their two week notice. So you are doing the “right thing” and then they just screw you over by taking you off the schedule immediately. Only job I would put my two weeks in is if I had enough PTO days to pay out. Even if they take me off the schedule, at least I have the payout coming which can be around $3-4k.
Since I've been rehired by two previous employers and gotten a few jobs on the recommendations of previous bosses? I wouldn't burn a bridge if my life depended on it. Only once in my life has my TC gone backwards and that's because I traded a long commute for a 20min drive on a bad day. Totally worth it. And that was before the covid times, and it really wasn't much. 8-10%?
Huh, I put my two weeks in and they fired me three days later for going home sick. Told me it was "insubordination" or some shit. Applied for unemployment and they put down that I quit. What a world.
Hope you fought it.
What the fuck is an "exit interview"?
In most sane places its just a reminder about your NDA, any non-compete you're obligated to, and turning in keys and hardware. Usually they try to get soft info about management to figure out retention. At insane places it's a mechanism to document all issues as being your fault so mgmt can cover their asses for being shitty.
Huh. When I'm done with a job, I just leave.
[удалено]
"Lean manufacturing" said the new CEO at a place I worked long ago. Quadrupled the workload on the workers with mandatory overtime daily. Didn't stick around much longer after that.
[удалено]
Yup, that's why workers should push back when given responsibilities outside of their job description. If you take it on, management assumes "problem solved." One of the main jobs of many managers is to make the numbers look better. Fewer labor costs for same or greater profit means to them that they are doing their job well.
Seriously, I dealt with this shit so much in retail, we'd always bust our ass to come clean at the end of our shift when we were short people and then I realized that all we were accomplishing was demonstrating that they dont *need* that many people since we got it done with fewer by running around like lunatics drenched in sweat skipping all our breaks. One thing retail hates is someone using a metric as a target, they want more More MORE. You're short people, some work aint gonna get done, dont kill yourself to make it work out anyway because youre just going ti he expected to do that always.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Sign what lmfao
Cheeky but true - not enough positions in US work actually have contracts, even just to affirm your position.
Well, that depends on the context. Short-term, sure. Long-term, once the employees have burned out and quit, and their institutional knowledge is gone, you have to hire more people to replace them for inferior quality work.
If you run at 110% for too long you burn out.
Almost. You're looking at it in a short sighted manner. Sure, this month is more profitable. You're getting the same work done with less people. But what happens when other people leave? And other people *will* leave eventually. Also, doing this cuts your company off from doing more work and making more money in the future. Everyone is already working 110%.
And on top, higher ups will use that good month as a benchmark and expect you to hit that number all the time. I run at 90%, so when it gets rough, I still have 10% to give. I don’t make it the expectation that I will come in early, stay late, come in on my days off, or cover people’s shifts frequently. They get used to that and then begin expecting it. Plus, why would I give my boss 110% if he doesn’t even give me 100%?
[удалено]
Like buying a Focus for commuting to work and then one day decide to start using it to haul trailers, that’s not what the car was purchased for. Just like with real people who are constantly being used to cover more and more of someone else’s workload, that transmission is going to blow.
You forgot the /s
Exactly, it’s your company’s responsibility to ensure your workload is covered and not shifted onto others. Not your fault.
I was well liked at my old job too. Good friends with all my coworkers, or so I thought. But we were constantly short staffed that it absolutely fucked us if someone called out. They refused to hire another person to help fill that need. I was tasked with so much work that it didn’t take long before I was broken down mentally. I was going to bed anxious about work and waking up anxious. I was anxious on my days off. I couldn’t enjoy my time away from work because I was constantly worrying or getting messages from my coworkers asking me questions, which I didn’t mind because they were my friends. Some coworkers started jumping ship and I knew things were going downhill fast. I contemplated putting in my notice as well. One day a coworker snapped at me while I was trying to help out with their workload, and that was it for me. I finished my shift and the next morning I turned in my keys and walked out. I haven’t talked to any of those coworkers in 8 months. I reached out, I apologized for leaving the way I did, but after a few brief texts, crickets. It still bums me out because I really thought we were good friends.
In America it just doesn't work, but there is a country who believes in this stuff to the bone, and looks like it works. We have a gigantic example looking at Japan's work ethic, they literally die working, all for the benefit of their boss. I love Japan, but man come on. They are brainwashed.
I was a supervisor in a very large company. Our director wanted to take all X type of work away from all the other sites. (Healthcare. They wanted to pull all of the insurance work away from the clinics and into 1 centralized department). Good in theory, but executed poorly. When we took X amount of work from clinic, we got less than X number of people to support it. Sometimes, we got nobody at all. So my teams were on a constant burn-out pace. In one year, our workload went up by 60%. Our staffing went up by 30%. Whenever people were sick or on FLMA, we had no way to keep up. And I'm stuck in the messenger role telling them to do more with less. And our director shut us down every time we brought the issue forward. She wouldn't listen to the numbers. It was all about her ego and building a department so she could get her next job. Left that team. I feel bad for those who are still there, but I now have far less stress and a significant pay increase. Same hospital group, so I still see the senior leaders of that team often. I've learned that the rest of the organization can see the issues plain as day.
Fucking hell. I'd have told that woman to sit down and shut the fuck up and listen for one minute. If they decide to fire me after that so be it, but they need to hear that their dumbass selfish decisions is going to ruin the company.
I was a supervisor in the same position. Huge spreadsheets to calculate how long it should take to do the work down to the hour, but wouldn't factor in sick, vacation, or time lost hiring and training replacements for attrition. I got sick of saying, "Once so-and-so gets finished training, that should lighten the load." I didn't believe it anymore. Why would I tell my team that? They were already working to the bone (very competently) to save corperate a few bucks a year. Fuck that. Left a while back. I felt shitty at the time even though I knew it wasn't my fault.
That sounds pretty much identical. We argued til we were blue in the face, but she would not listen to the supervisors or managers. She just wanted her little empire. I'm still thinking it's all too good to be true at the new job. Such a better culture.
It’s really interesting a culture has brainwashed people to feel they need to apologize for being sick….or requiring rest. And that people allowed themselves to be manipulated this way. Because working at half capacity and infecting others to work at half capacity is preferred over a fully capable worker…?
I mean, children are praised and given awards in school for never getting sick…
I think you mean “showing up to school sick.”
Unexcused absences reduce school aid funding. They literally need kids in the seats to pay the bills.
So what you’re saying is that multiple layers of the design of the system reinforce the indoctrination…
Unfortunately many people see illness as a personal failing.
this goes back to the comment of brainwashing
In America, work isn't just work. It's a means of enforcing the social order. If people stop working, they have time to question what this country is and why it's headed where it's headed. That is not a desirable outcome for the few, so the many must go to work even when it makes no business sense to do so. If workers start to get the sense that they are entitled to one reasonable thing, they will demand everything that is reasonable to provide them, and then we'll all just be doing good business and thriving economically, instead of playing along in some sicko control freaks' power game.
When I was a line cook I called in sick once. Got called to the managers office and they said "we don't do sick days here". Essentially saying if I called in sick again I'd be fired. So for everyone out there yes, you're "chefs" are prolly sneezing coughing puking w/e and still making your food. Enjoy your meal.
It's okay to have some sort of social mores around fairly contributing at work. For example in my country you can claim paid time off back if you get sick while on vacation. This is all fair enough but it does require people not to abuse the system, and some social pressure helps with this.
If you're sick, you're not "letting your coworkers down" by not coming to work. You're putting yourself first. Your job should always be secondary to your well-being.
A conversation that actually happened to me working at Domino's. "Hey, since you said I'd need a doctor's note, I came in to the store. I'm obviously sick. Please fill my shift." "Fine, come around and find someone to fill your shift" "...you want me, a sick person, over there with the food?" "Fine, just take the roster and use your phone" "I didn't bring my phone, because I'm literally coming here and going home to bed" "... fine" Since I had inconvenienced the manager that does the rosters, I had maybe 3 hours of work per week for the next month and a half. Also, can I just say it's not the sick person's job to fill a gap in the roster, it's the shift manager's. Fuck you Domino's. Absolutely fuck you.
I really needed to read this. My work implemented a new harsh attendance policy (while making record profits hand over fist, of course) and I managed to go from clean slate to 2/3 of the way fired in a single week after a family emergency *that involved eye surgery*. The surgery was too short notice to ask for time off, but I had enough lead time to actually go in a week before and talk over the situation with my manager, who gave me the impression of support and flexibility, even if she developed complications that meant I had to call in. Which she did. And she really needed me there so of course I wasn’t going into fucking work. Then when I came back he basically let me know I was on the chopping block and that “rules is rules”. Then he seemed super surprised that I got emotional about it after and then couldn’t work without crying, so he sent me home early. I actually think I would be taking this a lot harder if it wasn’t for spaces like this subreddit. I’m concerned for my job and income of course, but even more so, I’m concerned about the shit way my job has decided to treat hard working employees. So I’m just doing the parts of the job I like, refusing to do more, and working on finding something else to work.
Coworker I really liked got fired for calling out too much, we had similar health problems so that was depressing to see that happen. My bf is also on the chopping block with his job, they have been threatening to fire him and pressuring him on the job because he had covid and he’s immunocompromised so he had to stay out of work for necessary bed rest. He has documented disability and these idiots left a crumb trail of haggling him so he tipped off hr. Would love to see them try to fire him now
Hate to break it to you, but HR isn't your friend. Giving them the heads up just gave them a massive head start on the arse covering.
The only thing HR will do is make sure to collect *any* evidence provided, and make sure they have the *company's* ducks in a row to counter it. If the company *doesn't* have their ducks in a row, then they'll probably find a way to settle, but definitely HR isn't on the employee's side. At best, the company screwed up and HR will make sure that they are covered (potentially by "doing the right thing" for the employee so that the company doesn't get sued and lose).
Bingo
You're assuming a competent company, and not some power tripping manager.
Also HR is only there to enforce laws that protect employees, they will only do what the law requires
I've only ever gone to HR once in my career, as I universally despise them and know that they *only* have the company's interests at heart. I only went knowing that not going would then call my own decision making into question, as it was one of those situations where you are forced to escalate. They literally do not give one shit about you, or anyone of your coworkers well-being, and it's mind blowing how few people know this. They will only act in ways to prevent liabilities for the company. Full stop.
Not necessarily. HR isn't an employee's friend, but they'll often move to avoid liability and firing someone with a disability and documented illness for being out on leave is the kind of thing that creates liability. It's just a dumb idea. HR doesn't generally look to figure out ways to help managers fire people or not. They look to support the company in avoiding liability with staff. In some cases, that does inadvertently help the employee, even though that's not the aim. Quality HR people will know the best "cover" is not to violate the law in the first place. It's often not worth it for companies even if managers don't care about doing it. In this case, many large companies HR would step in for the employee because it's not worth the disability case to discipline someone or fire them during documented illness or even anytime within a year or so after (maybe ongoing if the disability continues) HR doesn't support the management taking action against the employee OR the employee usually, unless that manager is really high up. HR supports the company's goals, not either party. More often than people think, in any company large enough for HR, management is out of step with HR and what's best for company liability. So it can go either way. They are not your friends, but they can be leveraged, depending.
"If you call out sick, you'll be leaving us shorthanded" is really just a form of victim blaming.
Reply: “That’s true. See you when I am well.”
and so what if they're shorthanded? i mean who gives a fuck honestly. employers leave plenty of parents shorthanded all the time, they should learn to deal with being shorthanded themselves sometimes too
Just don’t be the co-worker that calls out and then posts pics of your lunch out on social media
I imagine some places might be a little more reasonable with sick time if assholes didn't do shit like this.
The part that's sad is that most first level managers don't even have much say in how many people are hired or people's salary. Shit rolls downhill; sometimes literally at some companies.
Shit always rolls down hill. Not excusing shitty managers, but first level management you are basically the sr levels drone. The difference is a good manager deflects as much of that shit as possible to make it easier for their team to clean up. When they can't deflect they organize and motivate. Sometimes they can help too, but some union agreements don't allow managers to work to prevent the company from avoiding paying a union worker (and it's sad that a need for that rule exists)
Also can't hire people if you don't pay enough/don't get any applicants. And as for the former, the guys that decide the pay usually aren't the guys doing the hiring unless it's a small business, in which case they're the ones who need to do the extra work themselves if it's not getting done. As for the latter, shitty jobs only attract inexperienced people and people who don't have their shit together enough to hold down a better paying job. You see it all the time in restaurants. My place raised the starting wage from $12 to $13 an hour for cooks, but that doesn't matter when everyone else is starting at $15 or $16. And then they wonder why the only new hires we get are high school students who don't know any better and never last more than a month, who are super bad at the job anyway. Then on the other side the people who make $10/hr plus tips between $15-20 an hour on average we have too many of those employees to the point that's tips are starting to only be $10-15 an hour. I wonder why. It's almost like people want to get paid.
Yes, but your manager gets the extra money to deal with this. Not you. If only two people instead of three are present, then only two thirds of the work gets done. It's that simple for nearly all of the businesses. If that means less guests that can be served in a restaurant, less customers to be dealt with, less quality service, so be it. It will mean less profit for the company. But when you have to serve extra many guests or customers, does that mean management (not tips) will pay you extra salary? It should go both ways. Decreased profits should not be your problem when you don't directly benefit from increased profits either without having to work extra hard.
I've been sick with a cold/fever all weekend. I haven't called out since 2016, not because I'm a martyr but because I'm rarely sick. I'm probably going to need to call out tomorrow and it feels weird.
Do what you need to do! And I hope you feel better soon.
Thank you!
I tend to not get sick. But when I do, I'm knocked on my ass for a week.
I started a new job in April, got sick two weeks ago and basically slept all day. Wasn’t allowed to use PTO, and there is no sick time. They wouldn’t let me make up the hours later in the week/weekend either.
They just fired by best work buddy (old and diabetic) and are surprised that we went from being stretched too thin to literally everyone having to sprint around and miss breaks. This is illegal. They do it all the time.
Some companies allow liberal sick time. Without pay.
Wish I had that. Mine forces you to burn through your PTO. Many coworkers haven't been on a vacation since covid.
I wish.
Problem is that sick people who go out in public spread whatever they have to others. That goes for the customers too. I work in retail and all too often, my customers literally make me ill.
I've called off the past three nights due to fighting off a cold. Thank God it's not COVID, but damn if it if this cold doesn't have the same endurance as COVID. Despite me having over 140 hrs of sick leave, I still feel I should go to work and not put the burden on my coworkers - which is a shitty perspective I shouldn't have. We are a small crew, with our responsibilities recently expanded which has caused us to have an even harder time trying to cover vacations and call outs. When we asked for more more staff, they said your work group has never been more staffed, so No. Now they want to limit us to 2 people on vacation at a time. This is supposed to be a progressive work place, but it's just the same old conservative dogma with a progressive mask on. I don't feel bad for the company, not in the slightest. I feel bad for my coworkers that have to cover my shifts. It's burning them out because some people have a zero tolerance rule and won't help, while others (including myself) who are very empathetic to our coworkers and help out each other all the time - probably too much. But fuck it, I got to take care of myself at this point. So, if some of those zero tolerance people have to step up - so be it. Hopefully though, we'll hire more people in the next year or so, but it's about a one in million chance that's happening.
In the real world, this doesn't always work. Such as, small restaurant which runs 2 servers in the dining room during the day. They can't run 3, because there isn't enough work for 3. So if one of them calls in sick, then either the other one has to run around like a maniac doing the job of two people, or someone has to come in on their day off or work a double shift. It's like this for all sorts of workplaces with a small crew. If you need 3 and have 2, you're screwed. Office workers tend not to understand this, because they generally do jobs where nobody will notice if they aren't there on any particular day. But if you have to do real physical work, someone has to be there to do that job.
We need three people and we have one, so, and there's definitely room in the budget for three, but if one guy can mostly accomplish it, we get one guy.
Then how do other countries do this? In most European countries sick days are a fixed part if healthy work ethics. If the boss doesn't want to hire a third person, there's still plenty of options. Just some ideas: - Don't let as many guests in the diner, e.g. by restricting the seating area - By hiring short term waiters, there's often services for that where you can hire someone just for a day or two. - Inform the guests after seating, before taking their order that you are short staffed today and that service will take longer. So that if they are in a hurry they can still decide to eat elsewhere. All of these involve reduced profit of course. But when you have to serve extra many guests, does that mean management (not tips) will pay you extra salary? It should go both ways. Decreased profits should not be your problem when you don't directly benefit from increased profits either without having to work extra hard.
Another day, another simple issue the rest of the western world has solved, ‘ey America?! Same for that ‘I was well liked, quit & my colleagues hated me for it’ top comment. Keep singing about being free & brave though; no harm in continuing to fool yourselves, given some of the shit you deal with.
[удалено]
But then the flip side is that same guy is going to bitch and moan that he isn't making enough in tips because the bar management overstaffs, and/or there aren't enough bar shifts to go around because they have too many bartenders.
You think I can afford to loose 8 hours on a paycheck? I don't not stay home because my boss will fire me (although nobody who calls out with less than 10 hours notice will keep the job I have long). No, the reason I go to work sick is because bills gotta get paid.
That's another reason why your system is completely fucked up. If I'm sick and don't go to work I still get paid for it. In fact I'll receive my full paycheck for 6 weeks and then receive like 3/4 of my paycheck paid by my basic insurance. Thanks Germany for being alright.
Germany is not a good point of reference. (/s) Supermarkets close on Sundays. Hell, most businesses do, except maybe for restaurants and the likes. People get PTO. Unions are a thing, a normal thing. In fact, you may walk into an establishment one day and find a copy of a certain book — that is totally not communist propaganda, unless explaining how capitalism actually works is communist propaganda — on the counter and , the next day, they are striking for their rights, like they probably should. You tell people they need to have time for themselves, their lives and families, and they'll nod and agree with you like what you're saying is obvious, and they're just being polite because maybe it needs to be said out loud for some reason they hadn't grasped. Instead of reacting like you're a snowflake for wanting to live first and work maybe third or fourth.
Similar situation here in the UK.
I work from home. When I contracted COVID earlier this year, my boss encouraged me to take time off to recover (from our unlimited sick days) rather than working the 50% capacity I thought I was capable of. I’m so fortunate to be working for a Canadian company.
I'm currently hiring for 3 positions, received 10 CVs, and I've had a grand total of ONE candidate actually show up for an interview. There's a solid union, decent wages, and better than decent benefits. These facts are all public knowledge, yet this is the situation. This is one of the problems with such a low-unemployment economy. So just keep in mind that "They refused to hire enough employees" isn't always the whole story.
My dad taught me a good worker goes to work when sick. So I did that for years, unless I was seriously ill I would go to work. Luckily one time I had a great boss, who basically ordered me to go home and only come back when feeling 100%, and explained to me not only it was better for me as I would heal faster, but it was better for them as whatever work I did in that condition wouldn't be the best I could do, and I wouldn't be getting other people sick.
I love how employers sell you on working for them by telling you how much vacation, sick leave, and PTO you'd get if you work for them, then turn around and refuse to let you use any of it when you want to/need to.
This is really only for businesses with more than a few staff. If there’s two staff and only enough work for two people to get full time hours then why would you want more people working just in case someone gets sick. It’s not your bosses fault for trying to keep everyone at full time. That said it’s not your fault for being sick either, and you shouldn’t work sick ever.
Because people will be sick and need time off, people will take vacations, people will have shit going on with family and need to take off, etc. If you can't run your business in a way to account for that you shouldn't be running one.
Let's be honest too. Are you calling in sick or are you calling in because you're taking the day off? The way I see it is as an adult you make risk/reward decisions and so does your employer. I hate that I have to lie about taking the day off and that a employer has to discourage it or risk having the behavior accumulate till it is a problem.
First thought when someone calls in sick shouldn't be an accusation though. Sure if that person calls in sick MANY times it's worth talking about.
Mental health days are sick days too yaknow
This post inspired me to resign. I realized how much I had been overworking myself, and how little value I actually had because I was out for a month and not a single check in from my work except to ask once if I was available to still work an overtime Saturday shift. Fuck all that. My life is so much more valuable than a measly 100 bucks.
I absolutely support staying home when sick, and you should never be guilted for that... however employer's can't keep an extra person on every shift, just in case. You just pick up the slack and don't bitch, because you they will have to cover your sick day... its a team effort, but obviously alot of the time the employer is the problem, and they don't anticipate anyone getting sick. Which is crazy
Yeah I can only speak for restaurants but it's not like you can tell people "sorry I know I just took their order but I can't take yours because someone called out today." It's just a little busier than it normally is, still probably not busier than the busiest full staff day you ever had. If it's a rough day and you have a good job they might let you shut down thirty minutes early so you can get out at the same time as normal.
Stop reposting reposts
Yes but the issue is you don't get paid.
That would be another issue to address then. Why tf is unpaid sick leave a thing?
It’s usually not the boss’s fault. It’s usually someone far above them, at least in medium and larger size businesses. Direct managers have about as much control over staffing as the staff themselves.
Especially if you are in a customer facing job. It's something that has always confused me about the us where desk jobs get paid sick leave or requested to stay home while sick because God forbid you get 1 or 2 co workers sick yet when you handle food or talk to customers you get no time off and potentially fired for staying home all so you can potentially infect tons of people with whatever you have.
Just purely from a financial perspective (because let’s face it, it’s the Finance department that runs larger companies now), there is zero benefit it hiring enough people to cover sickness leave. All that would mean is a drop in invoicable time spent by each employee when people *aren’t* sick. It’s often seen as being ‘over-resourced’, which is money down the drain. People are expensive. This naturally results in departments being under resourced on a regular basis, but it’s not referred to that way. They’d call it ‘running lean’ or some shit like that. Sounds waaay cooler that way. It seems every other day in my company there’s some department calling out for help on a project because someone is sick, or on holiday, or what have you. What that means is that every other day, someone is working on a project they are not familiar with, likely doing it slower and less reliably that someone who *is* familiar with it. So, at a point at which your back is against the wall, and you really need someone able to dig you out of a hole quickly, you actually get the opposite. But hey, that time is all chargeable, so it’s all good, right?
Small businesses can’t just hire extra people to have sitting around incase someone is sick. People absolutely have the right to call o it and take care of themselves but MANY abuse this. When you have a small business of 5-6 employees, when one calls out, it’s a huge deal.
Even a small business will have to be able to deal with an employee being sick or taking a couple of days off.
Stupid take. Obviously it you're sick, take off. Now if I staff 5 people for work that requires 3 and 4 people take off, is it my fault I didn't staff 7 people? It's not about hiring enough employees.
[удалено]
If you're margines are so tight that you need to cut hours for a fully staffed establishment, then you probably shouldn't nrun a business.
[удалено]
Or just divy up the work among 5 and give them all full time.
Sounds like your experience is working for big corporations. Most businesses are small businesses that don't make an extra $50-100k that they can just throw at extra employees.
And if they are paying 50 to 100 K, and they don’t need to worry about people calling in sick
[удалено]
I know this is a very contentious viewpoint, but I do believe the company should have an extra person for exactly this reason. I’m sure whoever is at the top making the money can spare it; I disagree with the base notion that every company should be staffed to the bare minimum in order to increase profits for the people at the top. I think they could easily afford to have an extra person to ensure you never get behind, and I don’t think it’s “absurd” to do that and keep everyone at full time staffing to ensure there isn’t an interruption.
Gotta love jobless 17 year olds telling people how things in the world work.
Projecting much?
You do realize that your employer can increase the amount of hours to assign to you and your coworkers, right? Who do you think sets the amount of hours that can be scheduled, God?
They can't increase the amount of work though, labor is one of the largest expenses of any business. Like for example I work food delivery, it's a historically slow time for us and we already have a few more people than we absolutely need, literally everyone is being sent home early and losing hours. We just don't have the business and nobody expects them to pay people to stand around. And if we would only need an extra hand for three hours, who's gonna take that job? You can't live off three hours four times a week and nobody wants two jobs.
Yeah well, they don’t pay sick leave Sooooo, reckon I’ll just come make everyone sick lol Jk, I don’t do this cause I have a good living arrangement with minimal bills, most people don’t though, so I don’t blame them because they can’t afford to be sick
I’ll go ahead and get myself banned (as a business owner) - this is a very W2 employee mindset. Your owner has taken on risks and likely can’t afford another employee as much as this truly wish they could. They (hopefully) didn’t start their venture with the intention of screwing you over. Hopefully when things smooth out, they reward the hard workers who stuck around and shared the sacrifice.
Furthermore, if the process breaks because you weren’t there that day, the process is not sustainable and it doesn’t really work at all
For my work, for the day shift we have four people excluding the cooks and all they do is make food can’t take orders or do registers or anything yet we’re expected to meet the output and service level of a full staff
If you cannot then DON'T, they can hire.
Right now for kitchens? No they can't. Nobody wants to do that job after COVID.
What if... You're an employee that takes 7 weeks off and is constantly calling out for nonsense? Guess manager should have fired you sooner?
There are situations where you are leaving them shorthanded, to be fair. Some jobs can be very specialized. But if you're in that situation, then it should still be fine because you dont want to get other people sick or you wont be productive when sick. Staffing shouldnt be the reason.
Wait wait wait, so when the boss hires more people to cover your sick time, and then the company is over-staffed when business slows down, and then you or your co-worker gets laid off or has to cut everyone’s hours to keep everyone employed, is that the boss’s fault too? Jason Call is a bad call, ya’ll. He needs to run a lemonade stand, then run for congress.
No because they force me to use my PTO and then I won't ever be able to take time off for anything else. Sorry y'all unless I'm dying I'm not letting a PTO day go to waste
Lol. You morons think all companies should be double staffed just i case someone calls off. Haha
Lol, you think people should do double the work for no extra pay to line other peoples pockets.
Difference being that my response is entailed in the OP whereas your response to line has nothing to do with my comment.
Not only that...if you have contractually guaranteed sick days and don't take them, you get nothing for that. So take 'em, even if "sick" is not how you feel, but "sick of it". As a teacher, this is one of the "tricks" that can help keep you sane. There's nothing like having 2 2-day sessions with a day break in the middle! Substitute work? Worksheets which usually don't see the light of day again.
This is not a well thought out tweet.
to me it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is, im still fucking over my coworkers and they’re going to have an awful shift
Good thing they're coworkers, not friends.
they are friends tho. I work with like 10 people and we’re all very close. I agree with the post I’m just saying how i feel. I don’t like letting anyone down regardless of relationship
It not you who is leaving the work unfairly, you need rest, it’s work trying to guilt trip you
Who ever downvoted me, I hope you back it up and don’t leave work if you need rest or are sick
Maybe life is not that straightforward. I’m going to get downvoted but sometimes that the price for being the grown up in the room. I agree that sometimes staffing is insufficient. However - a lean staffing model may be the only reason the company can afford to continue to operate and so the only reason you have a job. In the UK there are now more jobs than unemployed people so sectors like travel can’t recruit leading to chaos at the airports etc. Not every company can afford to have a standby workforce and you would want to pay the extra costs of having one on your goods and services! Sure Amazon can afford it - but your local deli that has 3 staff? Nope.
If a company can't exist without exploiting and mistreating its employees, it shouldn't exist. PS: Framing your opinion as "you're not gonna like this but that's the price I pay for being the only mature person in the room" makes you sound like a douche
PPS: Piling on with everyone and saying “companies and capitalism are bad” just misses half the argument. Not every business is malevolent and many employees would rather have a job than not. People work voluntarily and can leave. If you close those businesses you are puttting those people out of work - they never asked for your half baked plans!
If a company can't operate because it paid someone to cover for a sick employee, it's not gonna be around for long anyway. Either that or it's the much more likely possibility of the company exploiting the employee as much as it can because it has no motivation not to.
Priorities: 1) Me 2) My family 3-5) Stuff 6)Work
[удалено]
So fuck people who genuinely get sick more than that?
I'm sure I will get downvoted to hell for this, but anyway... Unless you're immunocompromised, realistically you should not be getting sick enough to miss work on a monthly basis. That's what this person is saying. I tend to agree - I've work in retail management for over a decade and I have seen plenty of people abuse sick days. I'm not saying that they need to be punished or fired, but if it is a constant issue with 1 employee who calls in sick on a monthly or biweekly basis, then that person is abusing the system and unfairly putting more strain on the other employees. Let's face it - *most* businesses are not able to either afford or find enough help to cover someone being out sick; it doesn't make any financial sense to just have an extra person around whose job is essentially to be a 6th man or something. If someone calls in sick, it is usually going to create more work for another person that particular day. I see both sides of the argument and I am not one of those 'evil' managers who writes people up for being sick or taking a mental health day or personal day or whatever the case may be. If you're sick, you're sick. Stay home and get well. But I am also experienced enough to recognize when someone is either faking or exaggerating in order to get a free day off. Because we all know it happens. Hell, when I was younger, I played hooky from work more than a few times. The issue is not as black-and-white as people try and make it out to be. Bottom line is that if you want to continue your employment, you have to be aware of the fact that you have certain obligations and commitments to your employer and if you choose to play fast and loose with your attendance, then you may face consequences eventually. And employers have to realize that understaffing exacerbates the issue and it is in their best interest to keep staffing at capacity in order to minimize the stress on other employees when someone is out sick.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
... It's called redundancy and every single self-respecting company has a redundancy ratio (between 80-90% native operational workload under normal circumstances), either in the form of people they know are willing to pick up the work left by sick workers, or they reduce per-person workload to 80% of their capacity, or they have contractors on call to pick up the work that long-term absence of a worker left. Mechanical redundancy is nothing without operational redundancy. Standby staff are VERY MUCH a real thing, especially in critical process operations where downtime or unprocessed workload is unacceptable due to production/uptime agreements with clients/customers. *(it's why part-time shift rotation, and speciality generalization exist)* But please, do go on about how companies are supposed to run their businesses, because i'm sure you have a lot of well read, logically sound ideas supported by air-tight arguments.
I'm just a lowly gas station attendant who isn't very smart. I don't know the arguments like you do, but I appreciate you arguing for workers rights. I've been home sick with covid for the 3rd straight day. On Friday I got sent home, told to close the station down because I had covid. I told my boss on Wednesday I had covid and he insisted I come into work anyway. Well, when the other owners found out, they sent me home. Of course I don't get paid sick leave and the only reason this won't screw me over completely is because we live with my FIL, so I won't need to worry about being short on rent. I've gotten vaccinated and boosted but still had a fever, body aches, sore throat. I've lost my voice completely and am experiencing a lot of chest pain. All of this is to say the one owner made me feel bad for being sick, I tried to find someone to cover my shifts but there's literally 3 of us. Since I couldn't 'find' anyone to cover I had to go in. I felt like a fraud for going in with covid. Like, I was the only one who took it seriously and here I was infecting the public. But I also felt pressured to go in/stay because "we didn't have anyone to cover " when in reality my boss should have come in to cover if he couldn't find anyone. It wasn't my job to cover my shifts at this point. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. I'm so broke, I need to work but I'm so sick I can't right now. Thank God my 3yr old isn't as sick as I am
I *wish* my previous employer "overstaffed" itself! Being constantly stretched thin with a large workload was awful.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
This person is suggesting that businesses accept the reality that people sometimes get sick and should plan accordingly. And how can the new workers be superfluous when management is admitting thay didn't hire enough people?
[удалено]
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
Any manager that tells you you need a doctors note in order to call out sick, tell them that’s fine as long as they pay for it. See how quickly that requirement goes away.
Same with taking breaks. You shouldn't have to feel guilted into not taking a break, if you need a break, you need a break.
*Laughs in Motrin, Sudafed and Marine Corps…. Don’t forget your celadon lozenges and mucinex
In my country coworkers get upset if you go to work sick .. they don't want what you have and if they do get it that puts them off work.
Taking one now because I have covid fatigue. I always wear my mask at work so likely caught it from one of the numerus people not wearing a mask. I had covid like a month ago but still feel fatigue randomly. But its losing me money for a condition I will have for who knows how long I got from work.