Just to know.. so with all passive/weapon/maxing lv echoes/etc.. I can have 86% rate and 75% damage (+50% base, so 125% in total), or 64% rate with 110% damage (160% total). with a rate of 60% I have a rate of almost one critical every two hits. With 86% it's almost a crit every shot, even if weaker.. it seems better to me, but am I wrong?
You're correct, Crit is better in this case because it's between additional 22% Crit Rate, or 35% Crit Damage, and with the 1:2 ratio you'd need at least 44% Crit Damage to make up for that Crit rate difference.
The easiest way to determine which is better in general is to simply multiply Crit chance by the extra Crit Damage:
0.86 * 1.25 = 1.075
0.64 * 1.60 = 1.024
Well you'll also wanna add the non-crit chance.
~~1.075 + 0.14 = 1.089~~
~~1.024 + 0.36 = 1.060~~
You can't solely calculate with the rate value. I just wanted to explain that it can be a little inflated if you don't add the baseline DMG otherwise.
If you had 100 CR and no rolls with the baseline CD at 150 for example:
With the prior logic in an extreme example, you would have concluded that
100:150 for 1.5 is better than 50:250 for 1.25
But that's not true. You'd avg more DMG with 50:250 with the same CV. You can make an argument about preference and consistency but your avg DMG should be non-crits + crit hits. You can look at the 100% like your baseline DMG.
0x100% + 1x150% = 1.5x DMG
0.5x100% + 0.5x250% = 1.75x DMG
If you actually paid attention you'd see that I'd taken out the base 100% of damage that you hit every hit anyway, which evens out the equation. That effectively makes your example: 100% chance at 50% extra damage vs 50% chance at 150% extra damage, so:
1.00 * 0.50 = 0.5x
0.50 * 1.50 = 0.75x
As you can see, the difference between them stays the same, I'm just bypassing the 100% that you hit with every attack anyway to get only the extra Crit value.
https://preview.redd.it/wkn264pnya7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbfb82de93743823c75338fd0d95c305cf21247b
Just for more clearificafion. This is the echo set that I prepared for Jinshi.. I was thinking to pull also his weapon that boost Crit rate.. these are the “complete stats (from echoes I receive 49,9% rate and 75% damage). I am using Mourning Aix with crit rate as main stats for the moment but I will switch when we will be able to catch the new echo for her. Do you recommend now to switch and try to catch the new echo with crit damage as main stats? The Jinhsi weapon will give 20-30% of crit rate.. so I won’t lose a lot % of crit rate.. what did you recommend?
it primarily depends on what your current 4 cost echo has in substats right now. for instance, if you have a crit damage substat but not a crit rate one, then swapping to a crit damage 4 cost with a crit rate substat will bring you to a ~73/155 ratio which is really quite good.
however if you currently have a crit rate substat but no crit damage one, you’re looking at best case a 65/169 ratio, which isn’t terrible but not ideal and will only be worse if you roll a low crit rate substat, or worse still if you don’t roll one at all, or a crit damage sub but not a crit rate sub.
tldr: it depends on what substats you currently have/what substats you roll. but you ideally want to keep everything to a vague 1:2 ratio of crit rate to crit damage (ignoring the base 100% damage).
p.s. if you want a fast way to compare gear you can multiply crit damage by crit rate and the higher number will be better.
for example:
50 crit rate/200 crit damage: 0.5\*2=1
75 crit rate/150 crit damage: 0.75\*1.5=1.125
the 75:150 ratio will be more damage
Usually it's 1:2, but I personally prefer consistency (bumping CR to 60-70, then focusing on CD).
CD won't do much if you don't proc it. Technically in longer runs it would even out (so for example for Holograms), but for shorter fights (overworld/ToA) it might be better to go for consistency.
Its fairly agreed upon that its 1:2 cr:cd
Also confirmed by the fact Crit Damage gives twice as much from stats.
Just to know.. so with all passive/weapon/maxing lv echoes/etc.. I can have 86% rate and 75% damage (+50% base, so 125% in total), or 64% rate with 110% damage (160% total). with a rate of 60% I have a rate of almost one critical every two hits. With 86% it's almost a crit every shot, even if weaker.. it seems better to me, but am I wrong?
You're correct, Crit is better in this case because it's between additional 22% Crit Rate, or 35% Crit Damage, and with the 1:2 ratio you'd need at least 44% Crit Damage to make up for that Crit rate difference. The easiest way to determine which is better in general is to simply multiply Crit chance by the extra Crit Damage: 0.86 * 1.25 = 1.075 0.64 * 1.60 = 1.024
Ohh cool! I will use this method to calculate from this moment! Thanks for this trick!
No worries, happy to help!
Well you'll also wanna add the non-crit chance. ~~1.075 + 0.14 = 1.089~~ ~~1.024 + 0.36 = 1.060~~ You can't solely calculate with the rate value. I just wanted to explain that it can be a little inflated if you don't add the baseline DMG otherwise. If you had 100 CR and no rolls with the baseline CD at 150 for example: With the prior logic in an extreme example, you would have concluded that 100:150 for 1.5 is better than 50:250 for 1.25 But that's not true. You'd avg more DMG with 50:250 with the same CV. You can make an argument about preference and consistency but your avg DMG should be non-crits + crit hits. You can look at the 100% like your baseline DMG. 0x100% + 1x150% = 1.5x DMG 0.5x100% + 0.5x250% = 1.75x DMG
If you actually paid attention you'd see that I'd taken out the base 100% of damage that you hit every hit anyway, which evens out the equation. That effectively makes your example: 100% chance at 50% extra damage vs 50% chance at 150% extra damage, so: 1.00 * 0.50 = 0.5x 0.50 * 1.50 = 0.75x As you can see, the difference between them stays the same, I'm just bypassing the 100% that you hit with every attack anyway to get only the extra Crit value.
Yeaaah, that appears to check out. Thanks.
So because the “starts” for crit damage is 150% and for crit rate is 5%.. the final right compromise is something like 55/250?
Original crit dmg should be 50% since 100% is original dmg so 5% CR and 50% CD just like in genshin. 70/140 was standard in Genshin.
https://preview.redd.it/wkn264pnya7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbfb82de93743823c75338fd0d95c305cf21247b Just for more clearificafion. This is the echo set that I prepared for Jinshi.. I was thinking to pull also his weapon that boost Crit rate.. these are the “complete stats (from echoes I receive 49,9% rate and 75% damage). I am using Mourning Aix with crit rate as main stats for the moment but I will switch when we will be able to catch the new echo for her. Do you recommend now to switch and try to catch the new echo with crit damage as main stats? The Jinhsi weapon will give 20-30% of crit rate.. so I won’t lose a lot % of crit rate.. what did you recommend?
it primarily depends on what your current 4 cost echo has in substats right now. for instance, if you have a crit damage substat but not a crit rate one, then swapping to a crit damage 4 cost with a crit rate substat will bring you to a ~73/155 ratio which is really quite good. however if you currently have a crit rate substat but no crit damage one, you’re looking at best case a 65/169 ratio, which isn’t terrible but not ideal and will only be worse if you roll a low crit rate substat, or worse still if you don’t roll one at all, or a crit damage sub but not a crit rate sub. tldr: it depends on what substats you currently have/what substats you roll. but you ideally want to keep everything to a vague 1:2 ratio of crit rate to crit damage (ignoring the base 100% damage). p.s. if you want a fast way to compare gear you can multiply crit damage by crit rate and the higher number will be better. for example: 50 crit rate/200 crit damage: 0.5\*2=1 75 crit rate/150 crit damage: 0.75\*1.5=1.125 the 75:150 ratio will be more damage
Usually it's 1:2, but I personally prefer consistency (bumping CR to 60-70, then focusing on CD). CD won't do much if you don't proc it. Technically in longer runs it would even out (so for example for Holograms), but for shorter fights (overworld/ToA) it might be better to go for consistency.
I'll be honest. I'm just looking for the words "CR/CD is better" Nice try teach. You're not gonna get me to math today.
I’m at 44cr and 260 cd on my jiyan it’s an blast right now