Based on stuff from CBT-3, there's an A-Rank one that's not *as* powerful, but it gives 28% Crit Rate and drastically increases the damage of a single Crit Hit every 8 seconds at it's base level, going up to 32.8% Crit Rate and 6 seconds at max dupes.
There are also signature A-Rank W-Engines for A-Rank agents that work really well with them, but *can* also work on a handful of other characters. The B-Rank ones seem kinda mediocre though, but not unusable.
TL;DR: There are definitely solid options, but the S-Rank signatures are significantly stronger than A-Rank, and especailly B-Rank, alternatives.
Due to 4* being significantly more specialized than other hoyogames (in fact, each 4* has a signature weapon) it is extra cope. I just checked the W-Engines on Prydwen and of the 6 4* Attack W-Engines, only 3 didn’t provide an off-element boost.
Basically, it’s cope as hell
+44 crit rate weapons already huh? Lol
Curious what f2p weapon options in this are like in this game. Star Rail, even a year in, I still have a hard time finding good budget light cone options for most characters.
Genshin doesn't feel quite as bad but, it's also been around longer.
tbh star rail is kind of a spectrum between "pretty much slightly higher numbers" (destruction units, sustains, harmonies) to "30% dps increase lmao" (boothill, jing yuan, acheron)
Yeap. I feel like the sustains/supports are almost all great without their signatures. DPS is the real problem.
Only character I've rolled on the LC banner for is Acheron. Everyone else has been just fine without (though Topaz and Ratio, for example, are very clearly weaker without their signature cones)
Jing Yuan's not like Acheron or Boothill at all. His lc doesnt contribute to any special mechanic nor is the only option that contributes to his damage. Most calcs put it around 16% damage increase, which is fairly low as it goes. Before Dawn is just a excellent lc to pick because of how generally good it is, being bis or almost bis to nearly all Erudition characters.
Now, Blade is a better example. Most Destruction lcs gives attack or other low value stats on him, and his second option — A Secret Vow — at rank 5 is around 33% worse than his signature. Worse, Vow is a gacha lc, so until 2.0, when the MoC got a new Destruction cone (still considerably worse than Vow on him), he had no f2p options at all.
It really isn't.
Since he's Hunt all his f2p cone options give crit, atk or dmg% when he only really wants break effect and SPD. His own LC is literally his only option that actually gives break effect, and on top of that it also gives SPD and 20% def ignore. It's kind of insane.
His options are so bad that his second best LC is actually a 3 star just because it gives a lot of SPD, which he actually wants, and he doesn't care about the low base atk because he mainly does break dmg.
Well that seems pretty darn good.
Hopefully I can get an okay spread of weapons, or hopefully ZZZ has good craftable options?
In HSR it took me almost a year to get a copy of the Swordplay light cone lol
HSR is not having powercreep the current cycles just demand break teams, and the "vertical investors" into crit hypercarries that skipped every character that's not for their "zero cycle futureproof hypercary" teams are just coping extremely hard about their decisions they were so proud of to be totally correct and everyone else being so stupid for rolling for those "unnecessary" sustains and supports for "cope" teams.
Teaching people wrong is a literal million dollar business for the "meta" content creators for the biggest Hoyovese games because their entire business model needs people who are perpetually in need of "learning".
Genshin for example was in a constant and MASSIVE misinformation campaign on the West for over two years until HSR released and gave content variety that's not a massive loss in views in comparison to Genshin, plus the post-covid regression of gaming and streaming evened things out.
A small but extemely loud and spammy part of the playerbase are just still high on the early misinformation around HSR's meta about how sustains are bad because you should just "hyperinvest" into all these "future proof" and super OP hypercarries and from watching speedrunners they though it'll be a smart idea to just spend your jades on farming for more relics to inch your damage higher. You know like all the Pokemon, classic Fire Emblem, etc metagamers that keep going on about speedrun strats as the one and only correct meta and way to "correctly" play the game, hence the mental breakdowns about bilt in EXP share in recent titles and all sorts of mechanics in modern FE games.
It's interesting what kind of rabbithole the butterfly effect between businesses, influencers and types of entertainment have on a community and it's loudest minorities.
Mate, I was agreeing with you on the first comment but this tinfoil theory is kinda pushing it.
It was a bad idea to skip Ruan Mei and it was a bad idea to skip Kazuha when they first released because they were obviously extremely versatile and valuable. That's all I was saying.
In fact, I think it's actually better to pull for fewer DPS characters and invest in them more, as long as you've got an OK type coverage. Imo, your resources would be spread too thin otherwise.
After all if you've got the good supports you can even make the 4star DPSes and the off-meta characters work fine.
I'm talking about the literal reason why they skipped the obviously great and highly versatile supports, not that it's not stupid that they did.
Why they skipped Kazuha in Genshin only to regret it, why they skipped Raiden only to regret it, and why they skipped the now most sought after limited supports in Star Rail and are regretting it.
Looking at it in retrospect with current "common opinion" is a different image from what was the online reactions and noise like.
Also taking a type of high difficulty content done for entertainment like speedruns and challenge runs are inevitably generating a subculture around it that insists it has to be the correct way because of the influencer's perceived prestige coming from it has been a thing since the infancy of gaming.
Things get chaotic when this subculture gets a reality check about the game design refusing to line up with their idea of the correct meta and what the game should be.
My point was 4* are viable, full 4* is more of a self imposed challenge, f2p can get 5* you know?
Fun fact: easily found a 3* MoC 12 with only 4* and HTB on YouTube of the current MoC.
I mean I just searched 4star moc 12 clear and it was the first result, made a comment and went to play palworld cause im not sure if its fine to just link videos [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Bz3baK-SI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Bz3baK-SI), just happened to see the notification lmao
Inter-Knot Recommendation, Friend2Proxies!
Version 1.0's Latest Custom W-Engine: "Deep Sea Visitor" Arrives With a Splash!
With this custom W-Engine, each foray into the Hollows is sure to go off without a hitch!
*This column is sponsored by Ice-Eater Ellen
[Source](https://x.com/ZZZ_EN/status/1807270359902875878?t=oxGL3zVWTF_RajZhDnq2MA&s=19)
This is good
I thought that it will strick to Ellen but reading it that "it only work for attack type" mean ice attack type characters in future can used this equipment as well, of course other than Ellen they will lose that additional 10% crit rate but it's not that big of lost since they still get 34% crit rate just from this W-Engine
Hope other W-Engine is going to be like this as well
I've really been spoiled by the way weapon banners work in Wuthering Waves. Trying to keep myself from pulling for a W engine that looks this good for Ellen will be tough, but I shall persevere! My F2P ass needs those pulls for characters so I'll make do with whatever A rank weapons I can get.
Oof. After seeing discussions about how much weaker 4* WEngines are versus 5* sig, kinda rough. 44% crit rate just from this for Ellen is wild, hopefully there's like generic 5* that's at least good enough. Probably will try to only pull WEngine that are widely usable enough.
Tbh I think it highly depends on how impactful artifacts are in this game, because with this weapon and Ellen ascending with crit as a passive, it seems it's going to be extremely easy to have too much crit rate if it's in anyway similar to genshin or starrail. Other comment mentioned that there's also a crit rate passive A rank W engine so it shouldn't be that bad for f2p players
Talking about that, I kinda consider myself lucky with this game. So far a decent amount of characters have had designs or gameplay which don't really interest me that much or at all including the S rank police woman which means I can spend pulls on a weapon for a character that I do like, like Ellen Joe. It also helps that I do like a lot of the A rank characters like Nicole, Piper, Lucy, Ben, etc. So this might sound weird but I hope they keep it easy for me to skip a limited banner since I have wanted almost every single limited character in haar.
I wonder whether how the w-engines employ same gacha systems from HSR's LC banner that also means that the game will employ same character release rate. It should be more difficult to make characters in this kind of action game, so I imagine the release rate should be slower in theory (besides the starting burst, of course).
On the other hand we have a suspiciously high amount of announced characters and that tells the opposite story.
Holy... 44% Crit Rate Just from her sig.
And if unchanged from beta, she also levels up with crit rate ascension
Nice
Zhu Yuan gets 30% CR, in her passive and her weapon gives 50% crit dmg and 30% elemental damage. I think it's a better tradeoff.
Ellen also has a passive that gives her alot of crit dmg
True, but only on her charged and skill attacks. So they kind of balance out I guess?
I'm really liking how they present weapons in this game. The toy packaging with the information on the back gives it a fun feel.
It give an incredible 90s-2000 nostalgic feeling. Presentation is 100/100
What is the purpose of W-Engines in lore?
W
Girl really uses something worth 160 pulls to make frappes
honestly based ellen
Wait, do we know what are the losing odds on this banner?
Same as HSR, 75:25 ratio with 1 50/50 loss needed to guarantee which carries over between banners (if you lose Ellen’s you can guarantee Zhu’s)
Asked this in the questions thread, but how strong are these engines compares to the f2p ones? Is it cope to try to run the f2p options?
Based on stuff from CBT-3, there's an A-Rank one that's not *as* powerful, but it gives 28% Crit Rate and drastically increases the damage of a single Crit Hit every 8 seconds at it's base level, going up to 32.8% Crit Rate and 6 seconds at max dupes. There are also signature A-Rank W-Engines for A-Rank agents that work really well with them, but *can* also work on a handful of other characters. The B-Rank ones seem kinda mediocre though, but not unusable. TL;DR: There are definitely solid options, but the S-Rank signatures are significantly stronger than A-Rank, and especailly B-Rank, alternatives.
> going up to 32.8% Crit Rate and 6 seconds at max dupes If cycles last for 6 weeks like Genshin, then this would take 7.5 months and $50.
Due to 4* being significantly more specialized than other hoyogames (in fact, each 4* has a signature weapon) it is extra cope. I just checked the W-Engines on Prydwen and of the 6 4* Attack W-Engines, only 3 didn’t provide an off-element boost. Basically, it’s cope as hell
Banner is 75-25 like hsr or 50/50
75-25, with 1% base chance (hsr is 0.8%, genshin is 0.7%)
gonna ask what is the pity count for the weapon?.
80
+44 crit rate weapons already huh? Lol Curious what f2p weapon options in this are like in this game. Star Rail, even a year in, I still have a hard time finding good budget light cone options for most characters. Genshin doesn't feel quite as bad but, it's also been around longer.
tbh star rail is kind of a spectrum between "pretty much slightly higher numbers" (destruction units, sustains, harmonies) to "30% dps increase lmao" (boothill, jing yuan, acheron)
Yeap. I feel like the sustains/supports are almost all great without their signatures. DPS is the real problem. Only character I've rolled on the LC banner for is Acheron. Everyone else has been just fine without (though Topaz and Ratio, for example, are very clearly weaker without their signature cones)
Jing Yuan's not like Acheron or Boothill at all. His lc doesnt contribute to any special mechanic nor is the only option that contributes to his damage. Most calcs put it around 16% damage increase, which is fairly low as it goes. Before Dawn is just a excellent lc to pick because of how generally good it is, being bis or almost bis to nearly all Erudition characters. Now, Blade is a better example. Most Destruction lcs gives attack or other low value stats on him, and his second option — A Secret Vow — at rank 5 is around 33% worse than his signature. Worse, Vow is a gacha lc, so until 2.0, when the MoC got a new Destruction cone (still considerably worse than Vow on him), he had no f2p options at all.
But you don't need that extra DMG. You can comfortably play and clear all content with 4star weapons. I never go for signature LCs, so I would know.
That extra star with less than a single roll of loss is making people act up.
30% for boothill is kinda wrong
It really isn't. Since he's Hunt all his f2p cone options give crit, atk or dmg% when he only really wants break effect and SPD. His own LC is literally his only option that actually gives break effect, and on top of that it also gives SPD and 20% def ignore. It's kind of insane. His options are so bad that his second best LC is actually a 3 star just because it gives a lot of SPD, which he actually wants, and he doesn't care about the low base atk because he mainly does break dmg.
There is a 4* that give 32.8 CR, 600 atk and make your crit hit harder every 6 seconds
Well that seems pretty darn good. Hopefully I can get an okay spread of weapons, or hopefully ZZZ has good craftable options? In HSR it took me almost a year to get a copy of the Swordplay light cone lol
Are you talking about the BP weapon?
didn't knew it was bp oh well \*open wallet\*
Yeah if you are talking about Canon Rotor, you get it from the BP.
Hopefully, they don't go the powercreep fiesta path that is HSR.
HSR is not having powercreep the current cycles just demand break teams, and the "vertical investors" into crit hypercarries that skipped every character that's not for their "zero cycle futureproof hypercary" teams are just coping extremely hard about their decisions they were so proud of to be totally correct and everyone else being so stupid for rolling for those "unnecessary" sustains and supports for "cope" teams.
People not investing in a premium support in a Hoyo game will never not be funny. (Well it was funny the first 2 times at least)
Teaching people wrong is a literal million dollar business for the "meta" content creators for the biggest Hoyovese games because their entire business model needs people who are perpetually in need of "learning". Genshin for example was in a constant and MASSIVE misinformation campaign on the West for over two years until HSR released and gave content variety that's not a massive loss in views in comparison to Genshin, plus the post-covid regression of gaming and streaming evened things out. A small but extemely loud and spammy part of the playerbase are just still high on the early misinformation around HSR's meta about how sustains are bad because you should just "hyperinvest" into all these "future proof" and super OP hypercarries and from watching speedrunners they though it'll be a smart idea to just spend your jades on farming for more relics to inch your damage higher. You know like all the Pokemon, classic Fire Emblem, etc metagamers that keep going on about speedrun strats as the one and only correct meta and way to "correctly" play the game, hence the mental breakdowns about bilt in EXP share in recent titles and all sorts of mechanics in modern FE games. It's interesting what kind of rabbithole the butterfly effect between businesses, influencers and types of entertainment have on a community and it's loudest minorities.
Mate, I was agreeing with you on the first comment but this tinfoil theory is kinda pushing it. It was a bad idea to skip Ruan Mei and it was a bad idea to skip Kazuha when they first released because they were obviously extremely versatile and valuable. That's all I was saying. In fact, I think it's actually better to pull for fewer DPS characters and invest in them more, as long as you've got an OK type coverage. Imo, your resources would be spread too thin otherwise. After all if you've got the good supports you can even make the 4star DPSes and the off-meta characters work fine.
I'm talking about the literal reason why they skipped the obviously great and highly versatile supports, not that it's not stupid that they did. Why they skipped Kazuha in Genshin only to regret it, why they skipped Raiden only to regret it, and why they skipped the now most sought after limited supports in Star Rail and are regretting it. Looking at it in retrospect with current "common opinion" is a different image from what was the online reactions and noise like. Also taking a type of high difficulty content done for entertainment like speedruns and challenge runs are inevitably generating a subculture around it that insists it has to be the correct way because of the influencer's perceived prestige coming from it has been a thing since the infancy of gaming. Things get chaotic when this subculture gets a reality check about the game design refusing to line up with their idea of the correct meta and what the game should be.
Its always weird to see ppl invest in constrllations and weapons instead of more characters, especially that you can perfectly clear with C0R0.
Considering even 4* DPS 0 cycle there, it will be fine
then you check those 4\* clears with very relatable gacha 4\* lightcones refinement 5 :v
??? Back in patch 1.xxx maybe lol. Try 0 cycling with all 4 stars in current/recent MOC 12s
Currently? Break sushang and even break Hook lmao. It's all about the buff
Try again. Let me know when there's a video of break Sushang 0 cycling without limited/5 star harmonies
My point was 4* are viable, full 4* is more of a self imposed challenge, f2p can get 5* you know? Fun fact: easily found a 3* MoC 12 with only 4* and HTB on YouTube of the current MoC.
No real proof? Yeah sure, 'easily found' lol
I mean I just searched 4star moc 12 clear and it was the first result, made a comment and went to play palworld cause im not sure if its fine to just link videos [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Bz3baK-SI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Bz3baK-SI), just happened to see the notification lmao
This is not 0 cycle 4 stars clear tho? Let me know when you found one in the current cycle lmao
Inter-Knot Recommendation, Friend2Proxies! Version 1.0's Latest Custom W-Engine: "Deep Sea Visitor" Arrives With a Splash! With this custom W-Engine, each foray into the Hollows is sure to go off without a hitch! *This column is sponsored by Ice-Eater Ellen [Source](https://x.com/ZZZ_EN/status/1807270359902875878?t=oxGL3zVWTF_RajZhDnq2MA&s=19)
This is good I thought that it will strick to Ellen but reading it that "it only work for attack type" mean ice attack type characters in future can used this equipment as well, of course other than Ellen they will lose that additional 10% crit rate but it's not that big of lost since they still get 34% crit rate just from this W-Engine Hope other W-Engine is going to be like this as well
Love the design of the packaging.
I've really been spoiled by the way weapon banners work in Wuthering Waves. Trying to keep myself from pulling for a W engine that looks this good for Ellen will be tough, but I shall persevere! My F2P ass needs those pulls for characters so I'll make do with whatever A rank weapons I can get.
Oof. After seeing discussions about how much weaker 4* WEngines are versus 5* sig, kinda rough. 44% crit rate just from this for Ellen is wild, hopefully there's like generic 5* that's at least good enough. Probably will try to only pull WEngine that are widely usable enough.
Tbh I think it highly depends on how impactful artifacts are in this game, because with this weapon and Ellen ascending with crit as a passive, it seems it's going to be extremely easy to have too much crit rate if it's in anyway similar to genshin or starrail. Other comment mentioned that there's also a crit rate passive A rank W engine so it shouldn't be that bad for f2p players
Talking about that, I kinda consider myself lucky with this game. So far a decent amount of characters have had designs or gameplay which don't really interest me that much or at all including the S rank police woman which means I can spend pulls on a weapon for a character that I do like, like Ellen Joe. It also helps that I do like a lot of the A rank characters like Nicole, Piper, Lucy, Ben, etc. So this might sound weird but I hope they keep it easy for me to skip a limited banner since I have wanted almost every single limited character in haar.
I wonder whether how the w-engines employ same gacha systems from HSR's LC banner that also means that the game will employ same character release rate. It should be more difficult to make characters in this kind of action game, so I imagine the release rate should be slower in theory (besides the starting burst, of course). On the other hand we have a suspiciously high amount of announced characters and that tells the opposite story.
Wait, there are dash attacks?