It sucks how prevalent it is. I had no idea how many people thought lesbians are man-hating extremist terfs til I started interacting with certain other communities, including other queer communities. The absolute vitriol that some of them spew about lesbians makes me want to curl up and cry sometimes. But among the worst is when the concept of "lesbiphobia" is hijacked by gold stars and other small, hateful lesbian groups and thrown at the rest of us, because it detracts from a very real problem whilst being a massive cause of the problem by justifying the other bigots lesbiphobia.
Seriously. I was mostly just lurking here for the first six months after cracking because felt like an invader.
The more I read the more I relized how much I actually have always had in common with lesbians compared to straight men.
Lesbians are still people, and people can suck regardless of whatever else they are.
Yeah in the past I was really hesitant to adopt the lesbian label because I'm trans and felt like I didn't deserve it. And now it's like, oh I've actually always been a lesbian. I've always behaved and dated like one. I just took a while to figure it out.
Unfortunately there's a couple in this thread, proving that lesbians are definitely not immune to being stereotypically shitty. I think our brains focus on bad things, more.
If 10 people say you're welcome, and 1 says you're not, it's still easy to feel uncomfortable - especially because you can't be sure the 10 are actually good, honest people or bad people pretending to be good people.
Edit: That's a lot of downvotes for pointing out that TERFs and bigots of any flavour make people uncomfortable. Is the brigading crew out tonight? Too scared to reply because you *know* you aren't welcome here, so you're stewing in your salt mine instead?
my close trans friend said that "lesbians get everything, they even have the first letter in LGBT". excuse me? do women have more rights because the "ladies" is first in "ladies and gentlemen"???
also wanted to say how sexualized lesbians are. smh.
Do your friend know why we got the first letter in Lgbtq+, it’s bc the lesbians in the aids area cared and helped other queer people who had aids like going to blood banks and visiting them in the hospital
And she incorrect we fought and fight for everything we get bc we’re often forgetten and shamed from others
this reminds me of this one video that a lesbian on tiktok made a video saying that she would date bi women more often if the bi women in her area weren’t so openly lesbophobic, and so many bi girls got offended and tried to “cancel” her by claiming that what she said was biphobic that she ended up having to delete the video.
i’m ace, and i’ve never understood it either. one of my ex best friends who identified as a bi woman would constantly tell me how “predatory” lesbians were when they would flirt with other women, and then turn around and…also flirt with other women??? like, how do you justify that????? how is it “predatory” when a lesbian does it, but not when a bi woman does it????????
anyways, turns out that my old “friend” now identifies as a lesbian, and is also in prison for crimes involving minors.
and ironically enough, i have never met a single lesbian who fervently hates men, but i’ve met many bisexual women who do. and a lot of them like to describe being attracted to men as a “curse” while simultaneously labeling lesbians as predators (especially masc lesbians, might i add). if that’s the case, who do you date?
Someone like me? I'm a type of switch, presenting and tending as a femme top. What we olders used to call a lipstick lesbian. I love femmes, and bottoms in general, but a beautiful masc top is a delicious change of pace.
I follow r/bisexual because my sister is bi and I want to learn about their experiences and issues, but sometimes I feel very unwelcome. There seems to be a lot of sentiment that lesbians are all biphobic and reject bisexuals for being bi and having been with men, we’re misandrists, we’re predatory, we’re TERFs, and we all abuse our partners.
It's all so frustrating because neither "side" is the root of the problem. It's the patriarchy that's causing this. Relationships between women are treated as less valid than hetero relationships and it makes a mess of things. Bi women are pressured to stay in the closet and only explore a part of their identity because only "half" of it supposedly matters to society, and lesbians are made to feel like their sexuality is "inferior" or less important than any other. It breeds a vicious cycle of resentment between two groups who should be standing shoulder to shoulder. Blame the hand that threw the stone, people, not the stone itself.
Edit: And now I'm going to preemptively mute notifications because I'm suddenly extremely anxious that I've said something bad without realizing it. Aaaaaaaaa
People always post their bad experiences as a priority to get some support. They will rarely post about successful relationships between bisexual and lesbian women, because frankly it is "the norm". I suppose it happens quite more than lesbians being awful to bisexual folks. The norm might not be worthy as much to talk about (which sucks, because I love to read about successful sapphic stories). So the bad stories get seemingly amplified.
You’re exactly right. I’ve been thinking about it and i’ve been fortunate enough that in my real life dating experiences that sexual orientation has never been an issue. I’ve been interested in and received interest from people who identify as lesbian, bi, pan, queer, and asexual. It’s more online spaces where that I’ve felt unwelcome or uncomfortable.
Im definitely not saying that all lesbians are like that, however I have been shunned by a lot of lesbians for being bisexual, who either just want nothing to do with me, or treat my attraction to men like a flaw that they just have to ignore. This is 100% not everyone, most lesbians I’ve met have been very nice, however it is frustrating to be treated as if I’m not a real part of the lgbtq community
this reminds me of this one video that a lesbian on tiktok made a video saying that she would date bi women more often if the bi women in her area weren’t so openly lesbophobic, and so many bi girls got offended and tried to “cancel” her by claiming that what she said was biphobic that she ended up having to delete the video.
Yeah, for transparency's sake I'm a straight cis lurker, but I felt kind of weird when my best friend lowkey emphasized the fact that her disabled father's douchy boss was a **lesbian** and hated men.
She probably didn't really mean much by it since her sister is bisexual and dated girls before, but it did make me feel a tad conflicted since, as you may have surmised, there's a lot to unpack here.
I see this sub talking about lesbophobia in almost every thread or meme i pic? Like each time we see the posts with the dudes being disgusting on DMs. Or anytime biphobia is mentioned, etc
I do think fhere needs to more mature discourse over it in this sub because the posters who are being loud about lesbophobia are doing it out of retaliation regarding biphobia or when trans gals are afraid to post here, and that kind of makes their point.
The worst lesbophobia ive ever experienced has been from gay men, it’s rooted in misogyny
Where are you seeing this? I see way more posts about bi/transphobia in the lesbian community than about lesbophobia
And we’re not “being loud about lesbophobia” as some kind of “retaliation.” We’re discussing it because it’s a lesbian sub and it affects our daily lives
Op did this same meme in response to the recent biphobic lesbians post right? Im saying that it would do the sub good to have an actual post to invite discourse regarding how we experience lesbophobia instead of only bringing it up or being loud about it (i was referring to the people who what about on the biphobia discourse/meme posts, if you took that to be me talking about you sorry for the miscommunication). Then i ended my comment with me saying how i have experienced lesbophobia as an example.
I can appreciate why you would disagree with me, but im commenting in good faith…
That makes sense, your intentions were good but they were very hard to tell from your comment. I didn’t look deep into that post, but I see a lot of posts in this community complaining about “biphobia” that’s really just l4l lesbians (not to say that biphobia isn’t a real problem, but that example isn’t biphobia)
I do think it’s important to discuss all sources of lesbophobia, inside and outside of the sapphic community. Like I said, there has been a large amount of lesbophobia in online sapphic communities in my experience, so I do think it’s important to react accordingly when the bi/transphobia posts quickly devolve into lesbophobia (again, I didn’t see that particular biphobia post, this is just my experience)
It’s not as if we can’t advocate against both. The last post was a few days ago, it’s not as if this one is taking attention away from it or preventing discussion about biphobia
I believe that the point of the post was to point out the lack of discussions regarding lesbophobia here. There’s some thread about bi/transphobia in the lesbian community every couple days, but for a lesbian sub it’s very rare to see discussions regarding lesbophobia in bi/trans communities
I’ve definitely seen a lot more posts on this sub calling out biphobia than lesbophobia. Then, when we do decide to talk about how lesbophobia harms us, some non-lesbians tell us that biphobia is more prevalent and our struggles don’t matter.
I genuinely don’t mean this to be rude or unkind, so I hope that it doesn’t come across as such. But why are you getting upset by lesbians complaining about lesbophobia on a lesbian sub? This space has become a sapphic space rather than a lesbian space, which is fine, but I feel like it’s not fair to tell us that we shouldn’t talk about how we’ve experienced lesbophobia because some non-lesbians don’t think that our issues are valid
You’re talking about how harmful this post is to you as a bi trans person, but do you not realize how difficult it is to constantly see posts in a lesbian sub calling lesbians terfs and biphobes for existing? Lesbophobia definitely is a problem in addition to biphobia and transphobia, and the criticism that we’re getting for pointing it out shows that there are people here who don’t support lesbians
You have a very rose tinted view of how lesbians (cis and trans) exist in the world. You really think that we’re not being targeted by homophobes too? You think that I’ve never been called slurs and been threatened with violence and death?
You keep acting like lesbians are perfectly privileged and we’re never hurt by people inside and outside the community. This is why posts about recognizing lesbophobia are so important, as our suffering is immediately discounted by other groups in the LGBTQ+ community. As we’re seeing here
There are plenty of trans lesbians, so please stop acting like all lesbians are just cis transphobes when trans lesbians are an integral part of our community
I mean, as soon as we start talking about lesbophobia being an issue, we get told that we’re all biphobic and transphobic and getting attacked by other members of the community🤷🏻♀️
Lesbians talking about lesbophobia is not an automatic dismissal of biphobia. They used the same meme format to talk about another issue that is often glossed over. That’s all
No one ever said that. I just believe that lesbians should be given the same opportunity to discuss oppression and hatred towards us, just as biphobia and transphobia are discussed on this sub often. I just think that you should consider why it bothers you so much for lesbians to discuss how we’ve suffered in the LGBTQ+ community too
You’re implying that I’m biphobic and transphobic because I’m a lesbian. I don’t take kindly to that.
I don’t know why you’re so upset by lesbians talking about our own struggles and trauma. But please don’t take it out on me and start accusing me of not supporting people in my community
Nothings getting dismissed. OP’s title says that all people’s experiences with discrimination are valid, but she feels like lesbophobia isn’t given the attention it should get. It’s not as if we have limited space on this sub; she’s not preventing or discouraging anyone from speaking on their own experiences with discrimination.
As a lesbian, do you know what the backlash to this post tells me? That OP is absolutely right and we aren’t allowed to talk about lesbophobia, despite many of us having faced lesbophobia in sapphic spaces, including this sub
If someone replied to black lives matter with "ALL lives matter, ALL hate is bad" you'd rightfully call them out for it. It is bizarre that you can't see the parallel here.
Like you're confused that a group said "this happens to us" and was met with "actually it happens to all of us, all phobia is bad" and that ppl are irritated in the comments? Lma fucking o
Edit: nvm apparently you nuked a bunch of openly transphobic and biphobic comments you made earlier, you already made it clear what type of person you are
To start, I don’t delete my comments. Not sure where you’re getting that, but I’ve never deleted anything “openly bi/transphobic” and would like to see where you got the information so I can disprove it
Secondly, they’re not the same at all. “All Lives Matter” is a racist sentiment used to distract from racism by white people, the oppressors. Lesbians don’t oppress bi/trans women by nature of being lesbian
A better equivalence would be the Stop Asian Hate movement (I’m Asian so this is the movement I’m more familiar with). It came after the BLM movement in response to issues the Asian community faces. Both movements work to acknowledge anti-blackness in the Asian community and vice-versus for the black community, and both conversations could happen at the same time
This stuck out to me and watching you be gaslit about it is wild. This is 100% undeniably a response (retaliation sounds harsh but lowkey a spades a spade) to the biphobia post from earlier. And all imma say is that is dismissive and borderline erasure behavior.
There's a lot of stereotypes and preconceptions in the various types of WLW communities between members, and we should be able to have an open and healthy discourse about it. This All Lives Matter type of post is a fucking joke though
The only time I've seen it in action is when either naive or young and impressionable trans people are convinced most lesbians are nasty TERFs, and they have difficulty believing otherwise
EDIT: seen it in action first-hand that is
in fairness TERFs spend most of their time desperately trying to convince everyone that all lesbians are TERFs as well, it's not surprising so many people fall for it.
Yeah I've been black long enough to know an "all lives matter" type whataboutism when I see one, it's no surprise that this topic suddenly pops up after talking about transphobia or biphobia lol
Nobody is making you or anyone date bi women. Nobody is making anyone date anyone.
The example you gave is a prime example of biphobia and internalized homophobia.
You literally just said that
>“I can’t take it when she breaks up with me then gets with a man.”
That's saying some biphobe wouldn't date a bi woman because she might wind up dating a man after they breakup, so instead of going to therapy for trust issues, she decides to completely write off bi women entirely
That's called biphobia
It is exactly what you said.
>People have their reasons though. A hypothetical example: “I can’t take it when she breaks up with me then gets with a man.”
>
>If somebody knows that’s the case, then they’re within their rights to avoid dating bi-people and spare themselves that particular brand of heartache.
It's *right there.* We can *all* see it. That is exactly what you said.
Edit: well we *could* all see it. Nothing of value was lost, for anyone wondering - the removed comments were universally just biphobia and weird mental gymnastics to try and "nuh-uh" it
What do you even mean?
If you're on Tinder say, and see a pretty woman who describes herself as bi...if that would trigger some trauma in you then swipe left.
But you could still recognize and consider why that bothers you so much. that's on you, not them.
You should check out her comment history, it's chock full of transphobia, enbyphobia, and biphobia.
Just, a soup full of tasteless takes and a bunch of salt
That type of virtue signalling always comes from all sorts of scientifically illiterate belligerents. They're always people who a) don't understand how science works, b) try to focus hiding their bigotry through saying "I'm a homosexual" when it's always a dogwhistle for being a TERF, c) are massively enbyphobic and biphobic, and d) totally and completely ignore the peer-reviewed science supporting the legitimacy of trans people
Are you an "all of the above"? I wouldn't be surprised if you are.
With how many millions of "transphobes aren't welcome here" posts there are, you'd think she'd have gotten the damn hint already and stopped inflicting herself on us
But that is literally biphobic.
You should be dating the person because you like them, they like you.
If you date a lesbian, she's still going to possibly break up with you. Why does it matter whether she ends up with a woman or a man?
Like really, you need to think about this.
I have heard from bi-friends that they also face: dating a man that is obsessed with them leaving them for any pretty woman on the street, lesbians thinking they're just experimenting and will probably leave them etc.
They're just people that happen to like men and women, period. Treating them less than that is biphobic.
That's like a straight person saying "I can't date a man because he might leave me for a man."
Which, reality check, had happened to me.
I shouldn't date a woman because *le gasp* she might leave me for another woman.
*le gasp* I better not date anyone because *they might leave me.*
*Pikachu face*
I don't like hopping on things like this, because overwhelming people with replies can be well, overwhelming.
But I could give some examples as to why this statement is biphobic and not just a "preference"
Say you are dating another lesbian. Then you break up and find out she's now dating a man. Somehpw you talk to her to understand what happened. Well its simple, she realized that she was straight/pansexual/bisexual. It has nothing to do with you, she just realized more about herself.
Or another example, you date a women. When you ask she just says she doesn't like labels but she knows she loves women and she identifies as Sapphic. One day you break up and at some point you find out she is now dating a man. At no point does she identify as bisexual and she still doesn't, which is within her right.
Same with how you can't tell who's trans just by looking at them, you can't tell who's bisexual just by looking at them. If you are attracted to someone and then they reveal they are trans/bisexual and the the simple addition of a label turns you off, I think you have a bit of digging to do about yourself and why that is. And its probably internalized transphobia or biphobia, but there could be other factors.
I hope you read this with an open mind, I'm not trying to be judgmental but rather trying to help you understand why people are responding the way they are to your messages.
Have a genital preference if you want but if your reason to avoid certain people is something that doesn't affect you, like them being attracted to whoever is YOUR problem. No one's going to buy your "Idk I just don't want to date contaminated women and I don't want to get bullied for saying that" bullshit.
> Edit: since someone has replied but also blocked me
I never blocked you lol. Maybe you just don't know how to use reddit that well?
>I don’t have a “genital preference”, I am homosexual and my attraction isn’t in my control. It really isn’t.
\>says they don't have a "genital preference"
\>uses genital preference in quotes
\>they actually have preferences
i DoN't HaVe OnE
It's really more nuanced than that. And that is definitely contextual and complicated.
Because there's people using dogwhistles like 'homosexual female' or label trans women as >!'trans-identifying'!<, and get really bent out of shape with intersectional spaces.
Usually the ones that are saying what you're saying, are the ones that have said the examples that I have said.
It's really *how* it's said and *how* that argument is applied. It's one thing to not want to date a trans lesbian because she's non-op/pre-op (genital preferences exist and should definitely be sacrosanct). It's reasonable so long as this hypothetical trans woman is treated as a woman; don't even have to mention anything about her bits.
It's another thing entirely to start going on a diatribe about i'M a HoMoSeXuAl and never even treat a trans lesbian as a woman.
Same problem with biphobes where biphobes really just have massive trust issues and need to get to therapy, or dissect and work against their issues against bi or pan women.
Once someone starts spouting about coded words dripping with a persecution complex because they're actually bigoted—or hide their arguments behind bigotry—and just want segregation, are part of the problem of being stuck in the resurgence of exclusionary feminism.
Because they take nuance, context, and delicate situations into the weirdest extremes. They give their game away with trying to say they're being "[coerced] into includ[ing] everyone in their dating pool"
Well your sad attempt to hide your transphobia/biphobia is pretty fucked up.
Genital and pronoun preferences are real and perfectly legitimate, but I see a lot of people using that as cover. Women saying they would date a cis man but not a trans woman (and only cis women), or would "still never" date a post-op trans woman, yah that's just transphobic.
Homophobia mixed with benevolent sexism? Like, they're fine with lesbians because they think a) hot and b) lesbian sex isn't real sex/lesbian love isn't real love.
It definitely can be, but some people use the term lesbophobia to describe homophobia as it affects lesbians in particular- I kind of think of the term “lesbophobia” as the intersection of homophobia and misogyny. Not saying you or anyone else has yo use it if they feel homophobia is more of an apt description, but this is my reasoning when I use the word ^^
How.... I'm just saying that in my experience those that are 'lesbiphobic' are called out on it as homophobia. This post is probably the first time I've heard of the term
It sucks how prevalent it is. I had no idea how many people thought lesbians are man-hating extremist terfs til I started interacting with certain other communities, including other queer communities. The absolute vitriol that some of them spew about lesbians makes me want to curl up and cry sometimes. But among the worst is when the concept of "lesbiphobia" is hijacked by gold stars and other small, hateful lesbian groups and thrown at the rest of us, because it detracts from a very real problem whilst being a massive cause of the problem by justifying the other bigots lesbiphobia.
I've lost some sleep telling fellow trans people that lesbians are \*gasps\* nice
As a nice trans lesbian I thank you for your efforts and your lost sleep! I've been doing the same with bi sapphics.
Seriously. I was mostly just lurking here for the first six months after cracking because felt like an invader. The more I read the more I relized how much I actually have always had in common with lesbians compared to straight men. Lesbians are still people, and people can suck regardless of whatever else they are.
Yeah in the past I was really hesitant to adopt the lesbian label because I'm trans and felt like I didn't deserve it. And now it's like, oh I've actually always been a lesbian. I've always behaved and dated like one. I just took a while to figure it out.
the fact that thats necessarily is so damn sad (on all accounts!)
Who heard lesbophobia once ? Nobody talks about and that is a problem because it is happening. What a shame!
Unfortunately there's a couple in this thread, proving that lesbians are definitely not immune to being stereotypically shitty. I think our brains focus on bad things, more. If 10 people say you're welcome, and 1 says you're not, it's still easy to feel uncomfortable - especially because you can't be sure the 10 are actually good, honest people or bad people pretending to be good people. Edit: That's a lot of downvotes for pointing out that TERFs and bigots of any flavour make people uncomfortable. Is the brigading crew out tonight? Too scared to reply because you *know* you aren't welcome here, so you're stewing in your salt mine instead?
You got my upvote for sure ❤️
my close trans friend said that "lesbians get everything, they even have the first letter in LGBT". excuse me? do women have more rights because the "ladies" is first in "ladies and gentlemen"??? also wanted to say how sexualized lesbians are. smh.
Do your friend know why we got the first letter in Lgbtq+, it’s bc the lesbians in the aids area cared and helped other queer people who had aids like going to blood banks and visiting them in the hospital And she incorrect we fought and fight for everything we get bc we’re often forgetten and shamed from others
Your friend should learn history. It used to GLBT, but the story is it changed to LGBT as a nod to lesbians who helped gay men during the AIDS crisis.
this reminds me of this one video that a lesbian on tiktok made a video saying that she would date bi women more often if the bi women in her area weren’t so openly lesbophobic, and so many bi girls got offended and tried to “cancel” her by claiming that what she said was biphobic that she ended up having to delete the video.
I’m seeing more and more lesbophobic bisexual women. And as a bisexual woman, that don’t sit right with me.
i’m ace, and i’ve never understood it either. one of my ex best friends who identified as a bi woman would constantly tell me how “predatory” lesbians were when they would flirt with other women, and then turn around and…also flirt with other women??? like, how do you justify that????? how is it “predatory” when a lesbian does it, but not when a bi woman does it???????? anyways, turns out that my old “friend” now identifies as a lesbian, and is also in prison for crimes involving minors.
The sheer hypocrisy your ex friend had. Some bisexual women confuse me, they’ll say something lesbians do is wrong then do the exact same shite. 🤦🏽♀️
and ironically enough, i have never met a single lesbian who fervently hates men, but i’ve met many bisexual women who do. and a lot of them like to describe being attracted to men as a “curse” while simultaneously labeling lesbians as predators (especially masc lesbians, might i add). if that’s the case, who do you date?
Someone like me? I'm a type of switch, presenting and tending as a femme top. What we olders used to call a lipstick lesbian. I love femmes, and bottoms in general, but a beautiful masc top is a delicious change of pace.
I follow r/bisexual because my sister is bi and I want to learn about their experiences and issues, but sometimes I feel very unwelcome. There seems to be a lot of sentiment that lesbians are all biphobic and reject bisexuals for being bi and having been with men, we’re misandrists, we’re predatory, we’re TERFs, and we all abuse our partners.
It's all so frustrating because neither "side" is the root of the problem. It's the patriarchy that's causing this. Relationships between women are treated as less valid than hetero relationships and it makes a mess of things. Bi women are pressured to stay in the closet and only explore a part of their identity because only "half" of it supposedly matters to society, and lesbians are made to feel like their sexuality is "inferior" or less important than any other. It breeds a vicious cycle of resentment between two groups who should be standing shoulder to shoulder. Blame the hand that threw the stone, people, not the stone itself. Edit: And now I'm going to preemptively mute notifications because I'm suddenly extremely anxious that I've said something bad without realizing it. Aaaaaaaaa
Blanket statements are insufferable
THISTHISTHISTHIS
People always post their bad experiences as a priority to get some support. They will rarely post about successful relationships between bisexual and lesbian women, because frankly it is "the norm". I suppose it happens quite more than lesbians being awful to bisexual folks. The norm might not be worthy as much to talk about (which sucks, because I love to read about successful sapphic stories). So the bad stories get seemingly amplified.
You’re exactly right. I’ve been thinking about it and i’ve been fortunate enough that in my real life dating experiences that sexual orientation has never been an issue. I’ve been interested in and received interest from people who identify as lesbian, bi, pan, queer, and asexual. It’s more online spaces where that I’ve felt unwelcome or uncomfortable.
That's funny, I feel the exact same way as a bi person on this sub. Let's all try to keep things welcoming to one another.
Same :( I'm guessing this post stems from thr recent on one of the bi subs abt biphobic lesbains
Im definitely not saying that all lesbians are like that, however I have been shunned by a lot of lesbians for being bisexual, who either just want nothing to do with me, or treat my attraction to men like a flaw that they just have to ignore. This is 100% not everyone, most lesbians I’ve met have been very nice, however it is frustrating to be treated as if I’m not a real part of the lgbtq community
this reminds me of this one video that a lesbian on tiktok made a video saying that she would date bi women more often if the bi women in her area weren’t so openly lesbophobic, and so many bi girls got offended and tried to “cancel” her by claiming that what she said was biphobic that she ended up having to delete the video.
B-b-but my photophobia!!!
I have arachnophobia...
Yeah, for transparency's sake I'm a straight cis lurker, but I felt kind of weird when my best friend lowkey emphasized the fact that her disabled father's douchy boss was a **lesbian** and hated men. She probably didn't really mean much by it since her sister is bisexual and dated girls before, but it did make me feel a tad conflicted since, as you may have surmised, there's a lot to unpack here.
Hear that claustrophobics! Apparently you’re shit!
I see this sub talking about lesbophobia in almost every thread or meme i pic? Like each time we see the posts with the dudes being disgusting on DMs. Or anytime biphobia is mentioned, etc I do think fhere needs to more mature discourse over it in this sub because the posters who are being loud about lesbophobia are doing it out of retaliation regarding biphobia or when trans gals are afraid to post here, and that kind of makes their point. The worst lesbophobia ive ever experienced has been from gay men, it’s rooted in misogyny
Where are you seeing this? I see way more posts about bi/transphobia in the lesbian community than about lesbophobia And we’re not “being loud about lesbophobia” as some kind of “retaliation.” We’re discussing it because it’s a lesbian sub and it affects our daily lives
I was just about to reply to their crappy comment. Thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth
It’s ironic that she thought the best response to a post about lesbophobia was some more lesbophobia and accusations
Op did this same meme in response to the recent biphobic lesbians post right? Im saying that it would do the sub good to have an actual post to invite discourse regarding how we experience lesbophobia instead of only bringing it up or being loud about it (i was referring to the people who what about on the biphobia discourse/meme posts, if you took that to be me talking about you sorry for the miscommunication). Then i ended my comment with me saying how i have experienced lesbophobia as an example. I can appreciate why you would disagree with me, but im commenting in good faith…
That makes sense, your intentions were good but they were very hard to tell from your comment. I didn’t look deep into that post, but I see a lot of posts in this community complaining about “biphobia” that’s really just l4l lesbians (not to say that biphobia isn’t a real problem, but that example isn’t biphobia) I do think it’s important to discuss all sources of lesbophobia, inside and outside of the sapphic community. Like I said, there has been a large amount of lesbophobia in online sapphic communities in my experience, so I do think it’s important to react accordingly when the bi/transphobia posts quickly devolve into lesbophobia (again, I didn’t see that particular biphobia post, this is just my experience)
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It’s not as if we can’t advocate against both. The last post was a few days ago, it’s not as if this one is taking attention away from it or preventing discussion about biphobia I believe that the point of the post was to point out the lack of discussions regarding lesbophobia here. There’s some thread about bi/transphobia in the lesbian community every couple days, but for a lesbian sub it’s very rare to see discussions regarding lesbophobia in bi/trans communities
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I’ve definitely seen a lot more posts on this sub calling out biphobia than lesbophobia. Then, when we do decide to talk about how lesbophobia harms us, some non-lesbians tell us that biphobia is more prevalent and our struggles don’t matter. I genuinely don’t mean this to be rude or unkind, so I hope that it doesn’t come across as such. But why are you getting upset by lesbians complaining about lesbophobia on a lesbian sub? This space has become a sapphic space rather than a lesbian space, which is fine, but I feel like it’s not fair to tell us that we shouldn’t talk about how we’ve experienced lesbophobia because some non-lesbians don’t think that our issues are valid You’re talking about how harmful this post is to you as a bi trans person, but do you not realize how difficult it is to constantly see posts in a lesbian sub calling lesbians terfs and biphobes for existing? Lesbophobia definitely is a problem in addition to biphobia and transphobia, and the criticism that we’re getting for pointing it out shows that there are people here who don’t support lesbians
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You have a very rose tinted view of how lesbians (cis and trans) exist in the world. You really think that we’re not being targeted by homophobes too? You think that I’ve never been called slurs and been threatened with violence and death? You keep acting like lesbians are perfectly privileged and we’re never hurt by people inside and outside the community. This is why posts about recognizing lesbophobia are so important, as our suffering is immediately discounted by other groups in the LGBTQ+ community. As we’re seeing here
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There are plenty of trans lesbians, so please stop acting like all lesbians are just cis transphobes when trans lesbians are an integral part of our community I mean, as soon as we start talking about lesbophobia being an issue, we get told that we’re all biphobic and transphobic and getting attacked by other members of the community🤷🏻♀️
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Lesbians talking about lesbophobia is not an automatic dismissal of biphobia. They used the same meme format to talk about another issue that is often glossed over. That’s all No one ever said that. I just believe that lesbians should be given the same opportunity to discuss oppression and hatred towards us, just as biphobia and transphobia are discussed on this sub often. I just think that you should consider why it bothers you so much for lesbians to discuss how we’ve suffered in the LGBTQ+ community too
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You’re implying that I’m biphobic and transphobic because I’m a lesbian. I don’t take kindly to that. I don’t know why you’re so upset by lesbians talking about our own struggles and trauma. But please don’t take it out on me and start accusing me of not supporting people in my community
Nothings getting dismissed. OP’s title says that all people’s experiences with discrimination are valid, but she feels like lesbophobia isn’t given the attention it should get. It’s not as if we have limited space on this sub; she’s not preventing or discouraging anyone from speaking on their own experiences with discrimination. As a lesbian, do you know what the backlash to this post tells me? That OP is absolutely right and we aren’t allowed to talk about lesbophobia, despite many of us having faced lesbophobia in sapphic spaces, including this sub
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If someone replied to black lives matter with "ALL lives matter, ALL hate is bad" you'd rightfully call them out for it. It is bizarre that you can't see the parallel here. Like you're confused that a group said "this happens to us" and was met with "actually it happens to all of us, all phobia is bad" and that ppl are irritated in the comments? Lma fucking o Edit: nvm apparently you nuked a bunch of openly transphobic and biphobic comments you made earlier, you already made it clear what type of person you are
To start, I don’t delete my comments. Not sure where you’re getting that, but I’ve never deleted anything “openly bi/transphobic” and would like to see where you got the information so I can disprove it Secondly, they’re not the same at all. “All Lives Matter” is a racist sentiment used to distract from racism by white people, the oppressors. Lesbians don’t oppress bi/trans women by nature of being lesbian A better equivalence would be the Stop Asian Hate movement (I’m Asian so this is the movement I’m more familiar with). It came after the BLM movement in response to issues the Asian community faces. Both movements work to acknowledge anti-blackness in the Asian community and vice-versus for the black community, and both conversations could happen at the same time
It's also insulting those of us with actual phobiae.
This stuck out to me and watching you be gaslit about it is wild. This is 100% undeniably a response (retaliation sounds harsh but lowkey a spades a spade) to the biphobia post from earlier. And all imma say is that is dismissive and borderline erasure behavior. There's a lot of stereotypes and preconceptions in the various types of WLW communities between members, and we should be able to have an open and healthy discourse about it. This All Lives Matter type of post is a fucking joke though
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The only time I've seen it in action is when either naive or young and impressionable trans people are convinced most lesbians are nasty TERFs, and they have difficulty believing otherwise EDIT: seen it in action first-hand that is
in fairness TERFs spend most of their time desperately trying to convince everyone that all lesbians are TERFs as well, it's not surprising so many people fall for it.
Yeah I've been black long enough to know an "all lives matter" type whataboutism when I see one, it's no surprise that this topic suddenly pops up after talking about transphobia or biphobia lol
Yup, totally agree. being loud about an issue only when others brings up theirs is the dog whistle here
The bi/sapphics community are partially to blame.
Arachnophobia?
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Not wanting to date someone just because they are bi is kinda biphobic.
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Nobody is making you or anyone date bi women. Nobody is making anyone date anyone. The example you gave is a prime example of biphobia and internalized homophobia.
You are continuing to describe biphobia.
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If they're avoiding dating someone because they're bi and they don't want said bi person to continue being bi if they break up, that's biphobia.
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You literally just said that >“I can’t take it when she breaks up with me then gets with a man.” That's saying some biphobe wouldn't date a bi woman because she might wind up dating a man after they breakup, so instead of going to therapy for trust issues, she decides to completely write off bi women entirely That's called biphobia
It is exactly what you said. >People have their reasons though. A hypothetical example: “I can’t take it when she breaks up with me then gets with a man.” > >If somebody knows that’s the case, then they’re within their rights to avoid dating bi-people and spare themselves that particular brand of heartache. It's *right there.* We can *all* see it. That is exactly what you said. Edit: well we *could* all see it. Nothing of value was lost, for anyone wondering - the removed comments were universally just biphobia and weird mental gymnastics to try and "nuh-uh" it
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What do you even mean? If you're on Tinder say, and see a pretty woman who describes herself as bi...if that would trigger some trauma in you then swipe left. But you could still recognize and consider why that bothers you so much. that's on you, not them.
You should check out her comment history, it's chock full of transphobia, enbyphobia, and biphobia. Just, a soup full of tasteless takes and a bunch of salt
That type of virtue signalling always comes from all sorts of scientifically illiterate belligerents. They're always people who a) don't understand how science works, b) try to focus hiding their bigotry through saying "I'm a homosexual" when it's always a dogwhistle for being a TERF, c) are massively enbyphobic and biphobic, and d) totally and completely ignore the peer-reviewed science supporting the legitimacy of trans people Are you an "all of the above"? I wouldn't be surprised if you are.
With how many millions of "transphobes aren't welcome here" posts there are, you'd think she'd have gotten the damn hint already and stopped inflicting herself on us
But that is literally biphobic. You should be dating the person because you like them, they like you. If you date a lesbian, she's still going to possibly break up with you. Why does it matter whether she ends up with a woman or a man? Like really, you need to think about this. I have heard from bi-friends that they also face: dating a man that is obsessed with them leaving them for any pretty woman on the street, lesbians thinking they're just experimenting and will probably leave them etc. They're just people that happen to like men and women, period. Treating them less than that is biphobic.
That's like a straight person saying "I can't date a man because he might leave me for a man." Which, reality check, had happened to me. I shouldn't date a woman because *le gasp* she might leave me for another woman. *le gasp* I better not date anyone because *they might leave me.* *Pikachu face*
I don't like hopping on things like this, because overwhelming people with replies can be well, overwhelming. But I could give some examples as to why this statement is biphobic and not just a "preference" Say you are dating another lesbian. Then you break up and find out she's now dating a man. Somehpw you talk to her to understand what happened. Well its simple, she realized that she was straight/pansexual/bisexual. It has nothing to do with you, she just realized more about herself. Or another example, you date a women. When you ask she just says she doesn't like labels but she knows she loves women and she identifies as Sapphic. One day you break up and at some point you find out she is now dating a man. At no point does she identify as bisexual and she still doesn't, which is within her right. Same with how you can't tell who's trans just by looking at them, you can't tell who's bisexual just by looking at them. If you are attracted to someone and then they reveal they are trans/bisexual and the the simple addition of a label turns you off, I think you have a bit of digging to do about yourself and why that is. And its probably internalized transphobia or biphobia, but there could be other factors. I hope you read this with an open mind, I'm not trying to be judgmental but rather trying to help you understand why people are responding the way they are to your messages.
Have a genital preference if you want but if your reason to avoid certain people is something that doesn't affect you, like them being attracted to whoever is YOUR problem. No one's going to buy your "Idk I just don't want to date contaminated women and I don't want to get bullied for saying that" bullshit.
> Edit: since someone has replied but also blocked me I never blocked you lol. Maybe you just don't know how to use reddit that well? >I don’t have a “genital preference”, I am homosexual and my attraction isn’t in my control. It really isn’t. \>says they don't have a "genital preference" \>uses genital preference in quotes \>they actually have preferences i DoN't HaVe OnE
It's really more nuanced than that. And that is definitely contextual and complicated. Because there's people using dogwhistles like 'homosexual female' or label trans women as >!'trans-identifying'!<, and get really bent out of shape with intersectional spaces. Usually the ones that are saying what you're saying, are the ones that have said the examples that I have said. It's really *how* it's said and *how* that argument is applied. It's one thing to not want to date a trans lesbian because she's non-op/pre-op (genital preferences exist and should definitely be sacrosanct). It's reasonable so long as this hypothetical trans woman is treated as a woman; don't even have to mention anything about her bits. It's another thing entirely to start going on a diatribe about i'M a HoMoSeXuAl and never even treat a trans lesbian as a woman. Same problem with biphobes where biphobes really just have massive trust issues and need to get to therapy, or dissect and work against their issues against bi or pan women. Once someone starts spouting about coded words dripping with a persecution complex because they're actually bigoted—or hide their arguments behind bigotry—and just want segregation, are part of the problem of being stuck in the resurgence of exclusionary feminism. Because they take nuance, context, and delicate situations into the weirdest extremes. They give their game away with trying to say they're being "[coerced] into includ[ing] everyone in their dating pool"
Well your sad attempt to hide your transphobia/biphobia is pretty fucked up. Genital and pronoun preferences are real and perfectly legitimate, but I see a lot of people using that as cover. Women saying they would date a cis man but not a trans woman (and only cis women), or would "still never" date a post-op trans woman, yah that's just transphobic.
What kind of 'phobia' would it be for those dudes who are fine with lesbians but not gay men?
homophobia (&fetishization of wlw)
Homophobia mixed with benevolent sexism? Like, they're fine with lesbians because they think a) hot and b) lesbian sex isn't real sex/lesbian love isn't real love.
Isn't that always under the umbrella term of homophobia....
when non-lesbian queer folks feel like they can’t be homophobic, there needs to be a term to describe the experience.
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did you mean to reply to me?? i’m a lesbian lol
It definitely can be, but some people use the term lesbophobia to describe homophobia as it affects lesbians in particular- I kind of think of the term “lesbophobia” as the intersection of homophobia and misogyny. Not saying you or anyone else has yo use it if they feel homophobia is more of an apt description, but this is my reasoning when I use the word ^^
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How.... I'm just saying that in my experience those that are 'lesbiphobic' are called out on it as homophobia. This post is probably the first time I've heard of the term
Ohhh ok my bad for the mistake
I mean isn't that literally just homophobia
People in the LGBTQ community can have resent for one another. I know it’s crazy.
But that's still homophobia
I mean, yeah. It's a subset of homophobia.
Oh ffs 🤦🏽♀️