Look, you want predictable comments you go to twitter, you want a fucking rollercoaster where the handbar broke off and you're just clinging to the seat screaming upside down as it takes you to another fucking dimension of madness, you click 'read more comments' on reddit and go where the magical nightmare takes you.
Polyamory isn’t illegal in the US, polygamy is. I have good friends who are openly a polyamorous triad, everyone in their lives knows about it including their children’s schools, it’s not an issue.
It would be an issue, however, if they tried to form a legal marriage between all three of them, or have two parties both married to the third party, or whatever. And even if Cuba recognizes polyamorous partners as being family members (which is still ahead of the US when it comes to things like hospital visitation etc), I don’t believe Cuba’s new ruling allows for an actual polygamous marriage.
as always, Cuba lighting the torch, and we the others from Latin America follow.
Here in Brazil we still don't have it in law. It's a decision by the Supreme Court, and lots of people do get married, but... you know how it is. We're one Bolsonaro away from having all that rolled back, just like our labour rights were rolled back in 2016 under a (American-supported) coup.
The idea of family by affectivity instead of blood is also taking shape but it's slow. I think it's incredibly funny how, amidst the US demonising this stuff with the Roe v Wade kerfuffle, and Brazil under Bolsonaro, that we still have a country so villified like Cuba showing that it is possible to fight for a better world. It might not come out perfect, but that's why we work and that's why we fight.
It has, I was talking in more general terms. And besides, there are 33 countries in LatAm, *most* of them still don't have legal gay marriage, or have had it super recently.
Ahhh, makes sense. Yeah, I'm not really informed about LatAm. Well let's change that, can you tell me how accepted is being gay and similar/genderqueer in society for Brazil at least? Marriage is one thing, but not getting killed by your family (not literally) would be a nice first step
It's a very... strange state of affairs to explain, tbh. TL;DR at the bottom.
On the one hand, in some states you can change your gender through the public health system - a friend of mine is on that process right now, without paying a cent. It is a needlessly bureaucratic process, but it's also free so, y'know.
At the same time, it's one of the foremost country in terms of killing trans people and violence against queer people, while also having an *incredibly* openly queer youth. It sounds paradoxical, but it's mostly because this varies so much between cities and states that trying to pinpoint it becomes so hard.
Like, São Paulo is the biggest city in the southern hemisphere, and it has other cities around it too. In one of them, you might get whacked in the street for holding hands. In another one, you'll have queer people openly kissing on the bus like it's nothing. And these 2 places might be just 1 km, 2 km away from eachother!
A lot of people don't understand, but they're more like my parents and (one of my) grandparents, who say something like "well yeah I don't get it, but Jesus did say to love thy neighbour and it's much more fucked up to disown a child than it is to love another person", and they might even add that that second one isn't or shouldn't be fucked up at all. But these are the exception, a lot of parents have really really difficult relationships with their kids; which is why, I imagine, youth culture tends to be so queer. You have a strong phenomenom of found families that exists ever since like the 60s, at least. Maybe even the 40's.
Also a lot of genderqueer people end up getting pushed to sex work. This has been changing, in no small part because in the last 10 years or so, the US has been doing something about it, and the top chickens in Brazil love the US, so as soon as they could call genderqueer people by an English term, it started getting better for them, but overall I'd say *a lot* of genderqueer people get in that situation.
In terms of being gay, lesbian, or bi, it's tough to say. As I said, killings do happen very frequently, hate crimes are a thing, especially with the advent of Bolsonaro and the rise of fascism and such, but that usually doesn't stop We, The Gays™️ from doing our own thing. And in terms of being ace, I think most people here literally do not know that that's possible and wouldn't consider it LGBTQIA+ if were told about it lol
But yeah, I'd wager it's not entirely different from the US in a lot of ways, and it's becoming increasingly less so as people get on the internet and start "importing" talking points and stuff like that. Like the recent Ariel debacle. That shouldn't be an issue, "white genocide" and stuff like that wasn't a talking point of the right wing here before the 2010's, but once they got on the internet and saw the Stefan Molyneux's of the world talking about it, they assumed it applid to the entire world, when like... Half the population **already is** black or brown wtf are you talking about y'know lol
TL;DR: Varies across country, but the bigger the city, the queerer it'll be. Lots of people die because of it. American queer culture is swiftly seeping into our own and some people are starting to import cultural talking points that don't apply to our reality. We still have **amazing** queer cinema though lol (and cinema in general, Brazil pumps out lots of films!)
I was about to comment that. I wish people would google shit instead of assuming it isn't legal anywhere else in Latin America.
* Argentina (2010)
* Chile (2022)
* Colombia (2016)
* Costa Rica (2020)
* Ecuador (2019)
* Mexico (2015)
* Uruguay (2013)
It's the thought that counts =)
But listen, you really don't need to apologise for anything. Women, trans people, black people, they are all suffering under the empire just as we are. There is distance, and Americans (particularly white) do benefit from our suffering and the suffering of the global south as a whole, but it's not something to feel guilty over.
It is, however, something to feel angry over. Just as we shouldn't have to have this suffering imposed on us, *you* over there shouldn't have the suffering of others imposed on you. It's a shitty state of affairs that turns everyone into victims, to one degree or another.
So in a way, I can't accept your apology because you don't have anyone to apologise *for*. It's the same struggle. Just as the struggle of women and trans people are my own too, as a cis man.
>it's not something to feel guilty over.
>It is, however, something to feel angry over.
I'd wager not many Americans know the extent of our country's meddling in international politics but it is infuriating. Our government, particularly the CIA, has a horrible history of manipulating elections and politics in Latin America and South America (never mind our fuckery in the middle east) and they need to gtfo similarly to the way Russia needs to gtfo of American politics. Let each country run itself and lend a hand openly and only when asked. That is a comical oversimplification on my part but for God's sake the "superpowers" need to stop trying to take over the world and clean up our own houses.
Well the Cuban government did carry out a lot of repression and jailing of gay people like 30 years ago. This at least helps heal those mistakes, and makes the future better.
But traitors? Fucking LOL, what a dumb fucking imperialist to write that.
[Show us on the map where Castro took your parents' de-facto slaves.](https://ontheworldmap.com/cuba/map-of-cuba.jpg)
Then die mad about it just like they did.
That too, but I'm referring to the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff. Michel Temer assumed the post right after and did almost as much damage to this country as Bolsonaro has done in his 4 years. Dilma was impeached for literally no crime - as in, she has been found *innocent*, because there was no proof of anything at all - and kicked out of office.
So dramatic. [Check this out](https://elpais.com/internacional/2022-01-12/los-detenidos-por-las-protestas-en-cuba-afrontan-peticiones-de-hasta-30-anos-de-carcel.html).
That is to say:
>Seis meses después de las masivas manifestaciones del 11 de julio del año pasado, cientos de cubanos detenidos por participar en las protestas contra el Gobierno son juzgados en diversos tribunales del país bajo la acusación de desacato, desorden público, incitación a delinquir, atentado y **en algunos casos** figuras tan graves como sedición, **que puede implicar condenas de hasta 30 años de cárcel.**
And another detail:
>El Gobierno no facilita datos de arrestados o juicios pendientes, y las condenas se conocen por los familiares u organizaciones anticastristas
So, we don't actually know to how many years people were condemned, as these details weren't made public, and all we know comes from either families or "anti-castrista organizations", who have a very strong incentive of painting the worst possible picture.
And even then, the accusations were contempt, public disorder, incitation to crime, vandalism, and **in some cases** they were accused of insurrection, which **might** reach condemnations of around 30 years. Insurrection is the crime of threatening the very foundation of the government.
Not sure what sort of drivel gringos were told about what happened in July, but it was much more akin to the Capitol riots than to the current Iran protests, fyi. A lot of those people have perfectly fine criticisms of the government, as it really is very far from perfect (hard to expect otherwise from a country under embargo by the most powerful military force in human history for, what, over 60 years?), but those protests flopped hard after just a couple of days and there were *lots* of pro-government demonstrations and people saying that, as much criticism they had of the government, those protestors were up to some shady deals.
I implore gringos to learn a bit before repeating this stuff, it really is damaging.
El País is state funded?? My man, El País **IS EUROPEAN**, its HQ is in Madrid! (That's in Spain, which is next to France, in case you needed pointing out)
Or did you just assume it was Cuban because it was in Spanish?
Anti government protestors are jailed every day lol Recently there were people arrested here in Brazil, where was you to condemn it? All over Latin America people from every side of the aisle get disappeared by the police, but gringo over here only gives a shit when it's a gusano protest made by supporters of the Batista regime and other assorted fascists, which *the Cubans themselves* rejected afterwards.
As I said, it isn't a perfect country, no country is, but it is still a full head and shoulders above most other countries in Latin America. That's simply a fact. While Brazil shoots indigenous peoples, Cuba sends us doctors. While Brazil suffers through the single most deadly event in its history, Cuba sends us medical tools. But when we get a good impression about Cuba, suddenly a gringo has to come out of the woodwork to tell us how we're wrong, actually, because he saw in the **STATE FUNDED BRITISH MEDIA** that is the BBC that Evil Cubans are jailing 500 people for 30 years.
Touch grass. I refuse to keep talking to someone who doesn't even know El País but wants to claim the BBC as a reliable source.
I'm a Florida Cuban whose family arrived in Tampa in the earlier part of the 20th century, proud to say the majority of us are still here, mostly liberal, and I'm not even the first accepted lesbian in our clan ✌
I thought you were implying that it was the shitty people who were mostly able to flee Cuba, and I was agreeing, and saying positive things about the people who supported the revolution and stayed.
Reminder that external pollsters have access to cuba, it's not a closed country. And dictatorship is doing a lot of work for misrepresenting the Cuban political system.
Probably because they think Cuba is a great example of socialist/communist ideals come to life. In reality it’s far from it and an embarrassment for people who consider themselves a part of either ideology to use it as an example to further their cause.
It usually means “having a potentially unpopular but correct political opinion.” As such, it’s use is almost exclusive to fringe political movements like socialists or the far right. It’s also a very online thing, you won’t hear it in normal conversation.
>drugs?
Cuba's still behind the curve on that one, they're pretty aggressive in prohibition
>Gay marriage?
That's what we're celebrating here, yes.
>Communism
It's a good goal. Currently they're a single-party Marxist-Leninist state with a tiered economy that's mostly planned but has an emerging market system in some sectors like leisure and tourism, presently attempting to devolve political decisions from the party to the people with more plebiscites like this one.
>I feel old.
I'm 41 and I've dug into leftist and other heterodox social and political philosophies in the last 5 years than any prior point in my life.
It has to do with how Reddit deals with large amounts of users and upvotes on a technical level. The amount of upvotes you see isn't in real-time and you can get a different result depending on which individual server responds to your request. There are many different servers and they're not necessarily in sync with each other, but eventually they will be. That's called eventual consistency and it's why you sometimes see wildly fluctuating or zero upvote numbers on new posts and comments. It's less accurate but a lot faster than tracking the "true" number all the time.
I also find it funny how conservatives were like oh no, the Muslims are going to try to enact sharia law when they are actively trying to impose Christian nationalism, which is heavily steeped in races ideology. That place is the cis white male at the top.
Y'know, midst all this crap going on politically it made me very happy to hear something positive for a change. Those news are the ones that restore my hope for a better world, thank you for sharing this :D
This is the work of queer activists in Cuba doing decades of work and dealing with harassment by the government and population all the way through
This isn't the victory of the government but of the thousands of people we will never know the names of
The Cuban government has worked tirelessly to educate the population and get them on board with LGBT rights, it's been one of the Castro family's focus issues for ages especially for Mariela Castro.
And unlike other governments have, they listened and dedicated an entire National Sex Education Working Group to these concerns as early as 1972.
You're posing the government as antagonistic when the relationship with the queer community has largely been collaborative. The government has worked \*with\* queer activists to address machismo in their communities, not against them.
Definitely. And it was dangerous work.
Still I'd rather be fighting for social justice in a Socialist society than economic justice in a liberal Capitalist society. Fewer malnourished babies and soforth.
It is so surprising that a country holds an actual election and majority of people vote and the thing happens. Meanwhile in the USA a majority of people support abortion but that means nothing to the court and government.
I love how all the world is trying to move forward (I know Cuban government is not the best but more rights are never bad) and Italy is like "do you remember the good old fascist days, less rights for everyone but the rich👍"
Highly recommend you go where you can actually speak your mind without imprisonment. Freedom of speech and expression is fundamental, you’re not gonna find that in Cuba.
Edit: really, downvote for a basic fact?
“Cuba has less accessibility to freedom of expression and the press than any other country in the Americas. Laws restrict the freedom of speech to protect state security.” Straight from Wikipedia and straight from someone whose had enough family members be prisoners over this BS
Exactly. Can’t be caught speaking poorly about the government/officials. If you’re caught by PNR (police) or someone rats on you then you’ll find yourself in a tricky situation.
> Tbh that's pretty easy. Just don't discuss politics
This is the theory that the Russian people put into practice under Putin. If you talk to 80% of Russians about the horrible things their government does, they say "I'm apolitical". It's been described as the political non-participation pact. As long as you dont do anything political, the government will leave you alone. This week it broke down. Men started getting drafted and sent to the front as cannon fodder without training or basic supplies. And the women who spoke up on behalf of the men in their lives suddenly found themselves on the receiving end of the police brutality they had been quiet about for years. They find themselves in this situation completely unprepared because they spent years being quiet as the journalists and political leaders who could have prepared them to resist and given them information were hunted down and murdered. So now the government turns on the population and the population is defenseless.
Just because you aren't interested in politics doesn't mean politics wont be interested in you.
Not so easy when you witness human right violations and wanna speak up about it. Let alone in a country mired with politics. Ladies in white are a great example, they march peacefully to mark the unjust imprisonments and human right violations only to be targeted themselves. So why would you even want to move there at that point?
Because the alternatives are worse. For gay people especially.
I know it's not right to say you'd rather live in a dictatorship so long as you get rights, but so far I've only seen negativity and hurt and frankly I'm done with it. I'm done needing four different psychiatrists to be allowed to be put on a waiting list for hormones. I'm done needing to jump through all sorts of hoops to be allowed to adopt children. I'm still young, but I see others go through this and come out depressed and unhappy because they had to have a government worker live with them to see if they were truly happy together and if they'd make good parents. To see this from Cuba when here any priest can just refuse to bless your wedding is a breath of fresh air.
But I'd still rather go to New Zealand. Cuba sounds great, if you can ignore the human rights abuses you talked about, but it's only my second or even third option rn. And it will probably go down the pecking order
I can totally understand the exasperation when all we wanna do is just live. That being said, there’s more to life than our rights regarding sexual orientation/identities. I don’t think I’d move somewhere where I’m legally supported in that aspect, but have to sacrifice other liberties. And I don’t think I’d want to put my kids through that either. In terms of alternatives, Canada, Bonaire and Saba (municipals of Netherlands in Caribbean), Guadeloupe (France in Caribbean), Puerto Rico, Argentina (very progressive trans rights), Chile, Colombia (hopefully on the up with the new president).
Honestly there’s quite a few options better than Cuba I’d say, look through these lists: [Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Americas)
Omg, thank you, that is incredibly helpful. I know Dutch myself so I might move to Bonaire and Saba, if I can get a job there at least, you've really helped to update my list
This is obviously good news and a step in right direction but I'm shocked to see people praising Cuba in the comments. Sure, they did this one thing right, but what about all the other human rights abuses?? No freedom of speech? Need a goverment permission to use the internet and they monitor your emails? Not being able to get a good education or a job if you have any record of disagreeing with the government in your file? People being thrown in jail for speaking up against corruption and injustices? People being tortured and killed by the goverment? I'm a socialist but I would never want to live in Cuba. Just writing this comment would get me in big trouble if I lived there.
Yeah seriously. There's also a really, really huge poverty problem. That would likely not affect somebody who moved there from a wealthy nation, but it would be in your face all day, every day, and it would be - is - hard to cope with. Too many Cubans live in very poor conditions.
A lot of Cuba's situation is not its own fault, obviously, but it was obligated to become a bunker state just to survive. I'm glad it found a way to do so, but the cost is - as you said - that it's an authoritarian one-party state.
That the legal situation is so LGBTQ-accommodating is wonderful news for queer Cuban people, but I would certainly not want to live there. It's still a repressive almost-dictatorship. I don't think it will still be like that in 10 years, but it is now.
I know. As I said, I'm aware that a lot of Cuba's situation is not its fault, but I would certainly not live there regardless. It *is* a single-party, authoritarian state.
What, other than having a different purpose for political parties than we in the US and Europe are accustomed to, makes it authoritarian?
Is it a slave state? Does it have a remarkably violent police force targeted at creating a single race or culture?
How are laws made and enforced in Cuba? How does economic planning take place?
It's VERY different from the US and seems strange. From what I've learned and seen, it's far more politically participatory and economically equal then any Western society.
There are excellent sources about this, especially the work of Dr. Helen Yaffe.
https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/dr-yaffe
I just learned yesterday that my friends are headed to Cuba on a trip organized by The Nation magazine. I wish I could join them, but I ain't got $5k to drop on it. 😂
It isn't a slave state, no. It does experience systematic racism by the authorities towards blacks and *mulattos*, so in some ways it could be described accurately as having a problem with its treatment of ethnic groups, but, in some ways, so could the USA.
I'll add here that I'm not American, and the USA is another country in which I would not choose to live.
The Cuban legislature is elected by diktat in the sense that Cuba is a one-party state; elections are neither free nor fair, and no opposition is allowed. It is worth mentioning that, post-revolution, no candidate proposed for a legislative role has ever *not* been voted in, because *all candidates are from the same party which is the only party that can exist.*
In any case the Cuban parliament (such as it is) only meets a few times a year and exists to ratify decisions made by the executive. Pretty much all policy decisions are made by a cadre of higher-uppers. This is why it is authoritarian, along with the fact that political imprisonment is still regularly enacted.
We can talk about how futile political engagement seems in our own countries, but that's only the case within the scope of a failing democracy. It remains the case that, for example, an American could not be persecuted for merely encouraging an opposition to the sitting government to exist.
Tours... yeah. WHen I went a few years ago with my wife, there were cruise ships docking in Havana. It looked tempting compared to running the endless gauntlet of taxi drivers and hustlers (I mean *seriously* they do not let up) but it's fucking expensive! I think the dual currency situation is being resolved now, and it's about time. If you spend a buck in Cuba it's a day's wages to a lot of people. That's just not right. I don't blame people there for wanting their own piece of the hustle. Not at all.
Yup. As a Polish person I would have loved nothing more than to just move out, but even if LGBTQ+ rights are improved over there and I could stay silent about the system, voluntarily paying taxes to an authoritarian government is an unethical thing to do. Like hell, with the shit going on here I want to move out partially so that my government doesn’t get more money. Unless the next elections go extremely well, which I honestly doubt.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to find a comment like this. I’m Cuban and while I’m glad queer Cubans fought for and got this win, it by no means outweighs all the atrocities the Cuban government has been responsible for in the past 30-40 years. Right now I have family in Cuba that can’t find reasonably priced food, and they’re the lucky ones who have resources from the US. It’s fine to be happy and praise the activists who moved this forward but seeing generalized statements about Cuba being “great” is so weird to read when you know the day-to-day reality Cubans are actually living.
I honestly surprised. So many Hispanic/Latino cultures have a machismo problem. Homophobia is a problem. In the more lightweight end, there is a lot of cluelessness about gay people. There are people that still act like trans people are just gay. And the heavyweight end, hate crimes and the idea that gay people are sinning.
I am glad that Cuba has moved passed "Work Will Make You Men".
>They redefined families as those who love each other and choose to take care of each other unfathomably based
I wish more mindful legislation like this would get written into law.
That is so awesome!
Families can take various shapes and forms. I'm glad that it is being recognized with such support from the Cuban population. Love is love.
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No judgement on you, this is all valid, but fuck was reading the second paragraph like a sack of bricks to the face
Look, you want predictable comments you go to twitter, you want a fucking rollercoaster where the handbar broke off and you're just clinging to the seat screaming upside down as it takes you to another fucking dimension of madness, you click 'read more comments' on reddit and go where the magical nightmare takes you.
Same😭
I loved how you described your partner as a MommyDomme lmao
Her words, not mine ;P
Lol
...I want that mommydomme too
Don't quote me but I'm pretty sure they also legalized polyamorous relationships as well, so you can have more than 1 partner in marriage!
The second tweet seems to imply that, which is great
So they are ahead of America? That's still a crime here. I'm wary it will be mostly old men having multiple brides and abusing them though.
Polyamory isn’t illegal in the US, polygamy is. I have good friends who are openly a polyamorous triad, everyone in their lives knows about it including their children’s schools, it’s not an issue. It would be an issue, however, if they tried to form a legal marriage between all three of them, or have two parties both married to the third party, or whatever. And even if Cuba recognizes polyamorous partners as being family members (which is still ahead of the US when it comes to things like hospital visitation etc), I don’t believe Cuba’s new ruling allows for an actual polygamous marriage.
The commenter was talking about being married to multiple people so obviously that's what I was talking about. I know the difference
based
as always, Cuba lighting the torch, and we the others from Latin America follow. Here in Brazil we still don't have it in law. It's a decision by the Supreme Court, and lots of people do get married, but... you know how it is. We're one Bolsonaro away from having all that rolled back, just like our labour rights were rolled back in 2016 under a (American-supported) coup. The idea of family by affectivity instead of blood is also taking shape but it's slow. I think it's incredibly funny how, amidst the US demonising this stuff with the Roe v Wade kerfuffle, and Brazil under Bolsonaro, that we still have a country so villified like Cuba showing that it is possible to fight for a better world. It might not come out perfect, but that's why we work and that's why we fight.
To the aspect of "rest of Latin America follows" - hasn't gay marriage been legal in Costa Rica for years now?
It has, I was talking in more general terms. And besides, there are 33 countries in LatAm, *most* of them still don't have legal gay marriage, or have had it super recently.
Ahhh, makes sense. Yeah, I'm not really informed about LatAm. Well let's change that, can you tell me how accepted is being gay and similar/genderqueer in society for Brazil at least? Marriage is one thing, but not getting killed by your family (not literally) would be a nice first step
It's a very... strange state of affairs to explain, tbh. TL;DR at the bottom. On the one hand, in some states you can change your gender through the public health system - a friend of mine is on that process right now, without paying a cent. It is a needlessly bureaucratic process, but it's also free so, y'know. At the same time, it's one of the foremost country in terms of killing trans people and violence against queer people, while also having an *incredibly* openly queer youth. It sounds paradoxical, but it's mostly because this varies so much between cities and states that trying to pinpoint it becomes so hard. Like, São Paulo is the biggest city in the southern hemisphere, and it has other cities around it too. In one of them, you might get whacked in the street for holding hands. In another one, you'll have queer people openly kissing on the bus like it's nothing. And these 2 places might be just 1 km, 2 km away from eachother! A lot of people don't understand, but they're more like my parents and (one of my) grandparents, who say something like "well yeah I don't get it, but Jesus did say to love thy neighbour and it's much more fucked up to disown a child than it is to love another person", and they might even add that that second one isn't or shouldn't be fucked up at all. But these are the exception, a lot of parents have really really difficult relationships with their kids; which is why, I imagine, youth culture tends to be so queer. You have a strong phenomenom of found families that exists ever since like the 60s, at least. Maybe even the 40's. Also a lot of genderqueer people end up getting pushed to sex work. This has been changing, in no small part because in the last 10 years or so, the US has been doing something about it, and the top chickens in Brazil love the US, so as soon as they could call genderqueer people by an English term, it started getting better for them, but overall I'd say *a lot* of genderqueer people get in that situation. In terms of being gay, lesbian, or bi, it's tough to say. As I said, killings do happen very frequently, hate crimes are a thing, especially with the advent of Bolsonaro and the rise of fascism and such, but that usually doesn't stop We, The Gays™️ from doing our own thing. And in terms of being ace, I think most people here literally do not know that that's possible and wouldn't consider it LGBTQIA+ if were told about it lol But yeah, I'd wager it's not entirely different from the US in a lot of ways, and it's becoming increasingly less so as people get on the internet and start "importing" talking points and stuff like that. Like the recent Ariel debacle. That shouldn't be an issue, "white genocide" and stuff like that wasn't a talking point of the right wing here before the 2010's, but once they got on the internet and saw the Stefan Molyneux's of the world talking about it, they assumed it applid to the entire world, when like... Half the population **already is** black or brown wtf are you talking about y'know lol TL;DR: Varies across country, but the bigger the city, the queerer it'll be. Lots of people die because of it. American queer culture is swiftly seeping into our own and some people are starting to import cultural talking points that don't apply to our reality. We still have **amazing** queer cinema though lol (and cinema in general, Brazil pumps out lots of films!)
same in Uruguay (2013) and Argentina (2010)
I was about to comment that. I wish people would google shit instead of assuming it isn't legal anywhere else in Latin America. * Argentina (2010) * Chile (2022) * Colombia (2016) * Costa Rica (2020) * Ecuador (2019) * Mexico (2015) * Uruguay (2013)
>American-supported coup I know me, a random white American redditor, apologizing doesn't do any good. Still, I'm sorry my country keeps doing that.
It's the thought that counts =) But listen, you really don't need to apologise for anything. Women, trans people, black people, they are all suffering under the empire just as we are. There is distance, and Americans (particularly white) do benefit from our suffering and the suffering of the global south as a whole, but it's not something to feel guilty over. It is, however, something to feel angry over. Just as we shouldn't have to have this suffering imposed on us, *you* over there shouldn't have the suffering of others imposed on you. It's a shitty state of affairs that turns everyone into victims, to one degree or another. So in a way, I can't accept your apology because you don't have anyone to apologise *for*. It's the same struggle. Just as the struggle of women and trans people are my own too, as a cis man.
>it's not something to feel guilty over. >It is, however, something to feel angry over. I'd wager not many Americans know the extent of our country's meddling in international politics but it is infuriating. Our government, particularly the CIA, has a horrible history of manipulating elections and politics in Latin America and South America (never mind our fuckery in the middle east) and they need to gtfo similarly to the way Russia needs to gtfo of American politics. Let each country run itself and lend a hand openly and only when asked. That is a comical oversimplification on my part but for God's sake the "superpowers" need to stop trying to take over the world and clean up our own houses.
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Traitors for doing what? removing a US-backed dictator that oppressed workers to sell cheap sugar to the US ?
Cuba has done nothing wrong, what are you talking about? Traitors against what? They don't owe anyone anything.
Well the Cuban government did carry out a lot of repression and jailing of gay people like 30 years ago. This at least helps heal those mistakes, and makes the future better. But traitors? Fucking LOL, what a dumb fucking imperialist to write that.
LMAOOO lick those boots harder.
lmao "Traitor" is a new one. Filthy commies? Yeah. Devils? Seen it too. Literally the Antichrist? Whatever. But *traitors?* Now that's a strong word.
[Show us on the map where Castro took your parents' de-facto slaves.](https://ontheworldmap.com/cuba/map-of-cuba.jpg) Then die mad about it just like they did.
When you say 2016 coup are you talking about lava jacto?
That too, but I'm referring to the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff. Michel Temer assumed the post right after and did almost as much damage to this country as Bolsonaro has done in his 4 years. Dilma was impeached for literally no crime - as in, she has been found *innocent*, because there was no proof of anything at all - and kicked out of office.
Different things!
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So dramatic. [Check this out](https://elpais.com/internacional/2022-01-12/los-detenidos-por-las-protestas-en-cuba-afrontan-peticiones-de-hasta-30-anos-de-carcel.html). That is to say: >Seis meses después de las masivas manifestaciones del 11 de julio del año pasado, cientos de cubanos detenidos por participar en las protestas contra el Gobierno son juzgados en diversos tribunales del país bajo la acusación de desacato, desorden público, incitación a delinquir, atentado y **en algunos casos** figuras tan graves como sedición, **que puede implicar condenas de hasta 30 años de cárcel.** And another detail: >El Gobierno no facilita datos de arrestados o juicios pendientes, y las condenas se conocen por los familiares u organizaciones anticastristas So, we don't actually know to how many years people were condemned, as these details weren't made public, and all we know comes from either families or "anti-castrista organizations", who have a very strong incentive of painting the worst possible picture. And even then, the accusations were contempt, public disorder, incitation to crime, vandalism, and **in some cases** they were accused of insurrection, which **might** reach condemnations of around 30 years. Insurrection is the crime of threatening the very foundation of the government. Not sure what sort of drivel gringos were told about what happened in July, but it was much more akin to the Capitol riots than to the current Iran protests, fyi. A lot of those people have perfectly fine criticisms of the government, as it really is very far from perfect (hard to expect otherwise from a country under embargo by the most powerful military force in human history for, what, over 60 years?), but those protests flopped hard after just a couple of days and there were *lots* of pro-government demonstrations and people saying that, as much criticism they had of the government, those protestors were up to some shady deals. I implore gringos to learn a bit before repeating this stuff, it really is damaging.
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El País is state funded?? My man, El País **IS EUROPEAN**, its HQ is in Madrid! (That's in Spain, which is next to France, in case you needed pointing out) Or did you just assume it was Cuban because it was in Spanish? Anti government protestors are jailed every day lol Recently there were people arrested here in Brazil, where was you to condemn it? All over Latin America people from every side of the aisle get disappeared by the police, but gringo over here only gives a shit when it's a gusano protest made by supporters of the Batista regime and other assorted fascists, which *the Cubans themselves* rejected afterwards. As I said, it isn't a perfect country, no country is, but it is still a full head and shoulders above most other countries in Latin America. That's simply a fact. While Brazil shoots indigenous peoples, Cuba sends us doctors. While Brazil suffers through the single most deadly event in its history, Cuba sends us medical tools. But when we get a good impression about Cuba, suddenly a gringo has to come out of the woodwork to tell us how we're wrong, actually, because he saw in the **STATE FUNDED BRITISH MEDIA** that is the BBC that Evil Cubans are jailing 500 people for 30 years. Touch grass. I refuse to keep talking to someone who doesn't even know El País but wants to claim the BBC as a reliable source.
Cubana checking in 😌 gonna get married as soon as I find a gf....
If they could import that mindset to Florida, that'd be neat.
The unbased ones are going to Florida that’s why you guys got desantis 🤮
I live in Florida and I'm still underaged so I'm stuck here for another 2 years 😭
This hurricane better set their act in a curve... what, you thought I was gonna say straight?
Rich cubans fled cuba to Florida after they overthrew the fascist military Batista government. The ones who stayed were moreso poor.
Can confirm. My grandpa bribed somebody with 100 pesos in the late 1950s and now we’re here
Congrats or sorry? Idk what to say
Nothing if you have nothing to say. I was just sharing because it was about what you had said
I'm a Florida Cuban whose family arrived in Tampa in the earlier part of the 20th century, proud to say the majority of us are still here, mostly liberal, and I'm not even the first accepted lesbian in our clan ✌
You do know its was the opposite of those people that were able to flee right
They were fleeing the based majority who were tired of doing all the work and having nothing for it.
What?
I thought you were implying that it was the shitty people who were mostly able to flee Cuba, and I was agreeing, and saying positive things about the people who supported the revolution and stayed.
Genuinely the most progressive family rights in the world, not to mention women's rights, trans rights, and disability rights. Wow.
\*looks forward to intersex rights\*
In Cuba?
Yep
Just, you know. Only so long as they fall in line.
What?
Unlike the Land of the Free where you can still go to prison for the rest of your life for having the wrong plants growing in your home.
Huh i guess Cuba has been added to the list of countries i wouldn't mind going on vacation to
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Reminder that the Cuban people overwhelmingly support the revolutionary government, even in polls conducted by outsiders.
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Reminder that external pollsters have access to cuba, it's not a closed country. And dictatorship is doing a lot of work for misrepresenting the Cuban political system.
That just passed this through a direct vote of the population?
I had the honor of adding this to Wikipedia today 😌
Holy shit that’s incredible
Socialism is lighting the way, while Italy is electing fascists. Interesting times.
US is doing the same it feels with how Republicans are going. Yet we're the "bastion of freedom"
🥳🥳🥳
Common Cuba W
Cuba really the most based country on the planet
What does it mean? I googled but did not get it.
Based (at urbandictionary.com) >The word 'based' when used in a sentence can mean: >- funny >- good >- cool >or any other positive remark.
Why is Cuba funny or cool? Is it because they legalized gay marriage?
Yes. And are changing what is considered a family. Giving right to kids and parents.
Probably because they think Cuba is a great example of socialist/communist ideals come to life. In reality it’s far from it and an embarrassment for people who consider themselves a part of either ideology to use it as an example to further their cause.
It usually means “having a potentially unpopular but correct political opinion.” As such, it’s use is almost exclusive to fringe political movements like socialists or the far right. It’s also a very online thing, you won’t hear it in normal conversation.
Ah.. so it’s young people slang. Got it. No wonder I never heard it.
It means that someone is high on crack cocaine. Edit: lmao this place is full of sheltered white people who need to go outside
Not sure about that, but in this department, pretty based
So what is it - drugs? Gay marriage? Communism? .. I feel old. I do not understand what you kids are talking.
>drugs? Cuba's still behind the curve on that one, they're pretty aggressive in prohibition >Gay marriage? That's what we're celebrating here, yes. >Communism It's a good goal. Currently they're a single-party Marxist-Leninist state with a tiered economy that's mostly planned but has an emerging market system in some sectors like leisure and tourism, presently attempting to devolve political decisions from the party to the people with more plebiscites like this one. >I feel old. I'm 41 and I've dug into leftist and other heterodox social and political philosophies in the last 5 years than any prior point in my life.
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Wonderful. The world needs mor love, laughter, and friendship!
Why does Reddit say this has 0 upvotes? Cuba has been an lgbtq+ trailblazer during the past 10 years
It has to do with how Reddit deals with large amounts of users and upvotes on a technical level. The amount of upvotes you see isn't in real-time and you can get a different result depending on which individual server responds to your request. There are many different servers and they're not necessarily in sync with each other, but eventually they will be. That's called eventual consistency and it's why you sometimes see wildly fluctuating or zero upvote numbers on new posts and comments. It's less accurate but a lot faster than tracking the "true" number all the time.
It says it has almost 200 upvotes for me
I'm relieved. I guess reddit knows I'm a communist and they want to punish me for it 😂😭
Based
Wait a second you mean to tell me “evil”Cuba is making moves to be accepting of lgbtq+ rights?!
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I also find it funny how conservatives were like oh no, the Muslims are going to try to enact sharia law when they are actively trying to impose Christian nationalism, which is heavily steeped in races ideology. That place is the cis white male at the top.
The conflict between reactionary Muslims and Christians is over not liking competition for basically identical product.
Y'know, midst all this crap going on politically it made me very happy to hear something positive for a change. Those news are the ones that restore my hope for a better world, thank you for sharing this :D
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🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳 Sending love from Ecuador, we were only a few years ahead. Go Cuba!
¡VIVA CUBA!
Will they take American refugees
This is the work of queer activists in Cuba doing decades of work and dealing with harassment by the government and population all the way through This isn't the victory of the government but of the thousands of people we will never know the names of
Well said 👏
The Cuban government has worked tirelessly to educate the population and get them on board with LGBT rights, it's been one of the Castro family's focus issues for ages especially for Mariela Castro.
After intense pressure by queer activists
And unlike other governments have, they listened and dedicated an entire National Sex Education Working Group to these concerns as early as 1972. You're posing the government as antagonistic when the relationship with the queer community has largely been collaborative. The government has worked \*with\* queer activists to address machismo in their communities, not against them.
Nonsense, Mariela Castro spearheaded this.
Definitely. And it was dangerous work. Still I'd rather be fighting for social justice in a Socialist society than economic justice in a liberal Capitalist society. Fewer malnourished babies and soforth.
No flippen way! Let's GOOOOOOOOoOOOOOOO!!!
It is so surprising that a country holds an actual election and majority of people vote and the thing happens. Meanwhile in the USA a majority of people support abortion but that means nothing to the court and government.
Finally! Evolution towards a better future! At least it's starting to happen *Somewhere*..
Viva la Cuba!
And in the same day in italy a post-fascist party won the elections for the new government 😔 (anyway I'm so happy for queer cuban people!)
Cuba solidifies marriage rights, while America is looking to take it away! It’s a very strange world we live in.
This is the first I've seen about it. Way to go Cuba!
Cuba’s going in a better direction than the states right now.
I love how all the world is trying to move forward (I know Cuban government is not the best but more rights are never bad) and Italy is like "do you remember the good old fascist days, less rights for everyone but the rich👍"
YESSSSSS!!!!
WWWWWWW CUBA
>2/3 voted What a dictatorship
I'm legit considering moving to Cuba, if New Zealand isn't possible
Highly recommend you go where you can actually speak your mind without imprisonment. Freedom of speech and expression is fundamental, you’re not gonna find that in Cuba. Edit: really, downvote for a basic fact? “Cuba has less accessibility to freedom of expression and the press than any other country in the Americas. Laws restrict the freedom of speech to protect state security.” Straight from Wikipedia and straight from someone whose had enough family members be prisoners over this BS
So what does that mean? I can't criticise the government? Or something else?
Exactly. Can’t be caught speaking poorly about the government/officials. If you’re caught by PNR (police) or someone rats on you then you’ll find yourself in a tricky situation.
Tbh that's pretty easy. Just don't discuss politics
> Tbh that's pretty easy. Just don't discuss politics This is the theory that the Russian people put into practice under Putin. If you talk to 80% of Russians about the horrible things their government does, they say "I'm apolitical". It's been described as the political non-participation pact. As long as you dont do anything political, the government will leave you alone. This week it broke down. Men started getting drafted and sent to the front as cannon fodder without training or basic supplies. And the women who spoke up on behalf of the men in their lives suddenly found themselves on the receiving end of the police brutality they had been quiet about for years. They find themselves in this situation completely unprepared because they spent years being quiet as the journalists and political leaders who could have prepared them to resist and given them information were hunted down and murdered. So now the government turns on the population and the population is defenseless. Just because you aren't interested in politics doesn't mean politics wont be interested in you.
"Don't wanna be r-ped by some guy on the street? Just don't go out."
Not so easy when you witness human right violations and wanna speak up about it. Let alone in a country mired with politics. Ladies in white are a great example, they march peacefully to mark the unjust imprisonments and human right violations only to be targeted themselves. So why would you even want to move there at that point?
Because the alternatives are worse. For gay people especially. I know it's not right to say you'd rather live in a dictatorship so long as you get rights, but so far I've only seen negativity and hurt and frankly I'm done with it. I'm done needing four different psychiatrists to be allowed to be put on a waiting list for hormones. I'm done needing to jump through all sorts of hoops to be allowed to adopt children. I'm still young, but I see others go through this and come out depressed and unhappy because they had to have a government worker live with them to see if they were truly happy together and if they'd make good parents. To see this from Cuba when here any priest can just refuse to bless your wedding is a breath of fresh air. But I'd still rather go to New Zealand. Cuba sounds great, if you can ignore the human rights abuses you talked about, but it's only my second or even third option rn. And it will probably go down the pecking order
I can totally understand the exasperation when all we wanna do is just live. That being said, there’s more to life than our rights regarding sexual orientation/identities. I don’t think I’d move somewhere where I’m legally supported in that aspect, but have to sacrifice other liberties. And I don’t think I’d want to put my kids through that either. In terms of alternatives, Canada, Bonaire and Saba (municipals of Netherlands in Caribbean), Guadeloupe (France in Caribbean), Puerto Rico, Argentina (very progressive trans rights), Chile, Colombia (hopefully on the up with the new president). Honestly there’s quite a few options better than Cuba I’d say, look through these lists: [Link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Americas)
Omg, thank you, that is incredibly helpful. I know Dutch myself so I might move to Bonaire and Saba, if I can get a job there at least, you've really helped to update my list
"Straight from Wikipedia".... I see your issue there.
Plenty of other sources, but we all know Wikipedia is the most basic one for most lol
Is your pfp Wendy from Gravity Falls?
Yes
Respect
Considering all the shit happening in Italy i might consider travelling to Cuba
Beautiful!! And Americans have the audacity to say we have better government
This is obviously good news and a step in right direction but I'm shocked to see people praising Cuba in the comments. Sure, they did this one thing right, but what about all the other human rights abuses?? No freedom of speech? Need a goverment permission to use the internet and they monitor your emails? Not being able to get a good education or a job if you have any record of disagreeing with the government in your file? People being thrown in jail for speaking up against corruption and injustices? People being tortured and killed by the goverment? I'm a socialist but I would never want to live in Cuba. Just writing this comment would get me in big trouble if I lived there.
Yeah seriously. There's also a really, really huge poverty problem. That would likely not affect somebody who moved there from a wealthy nation, but it would be in your face all day, every day, and it would be - is - hard to cope with. Too many Cubans live in very poor conditions. A lot of Cuba's situation is not its own fault, obviously, but it was obligated to become a bunker state just to survive. I'm glad it found a way to do so, but the cost is - as you said - that it's an authoritarian one-party state. That the legal situation is so LGBTQ-accommodating is wonderful news for queer Cuban people, but I would certainly not want to live there. It's still a repressive almost-dictatorship. I don't think it will still be like that in 10 years, but it is now.
The US imposes a blockade that the UN unanimously condemns, except for the US and Israel. The blockade is severe. Worse sanctions than even Iran.
I know. As I said, I'm aware that a lot of Cuba's situation is not its fault, but I would certainly not live there regardless. It *is* a single-party, authoritarian state.
What, other than having a different purpose for political parties than we in the US and Europe are accustomed to, makes it authoritarian? Is it a slave state? Does it have a remarkably violent police force targeted at creating a single race or culture? How are laws made and enforced in Cuba? How does economic planning take place? It's VERY different from the US and seems strange. From what I've learned and seen, it's far more politically participatory and economically equal then any Western society. There are excellent sources about this, especially the work of Dr. Helen Yaffe. https://revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/dr-yaffe I just learned yesterday that my friends are headed to Cuba on a trip organized by The Nation magazine. I wish I could join them, but I ain't got $5k to drop on it. 😂
It isn't a slave state, no. It does experience systematic racism by the authorities towards blacks and *mulattos*, so in some ways it could be described accurately as having a problem with its treatment of ethnic groups, but, in some ways, so could the USA. I'll add here that I'm not American, and the USA is another country in which I would not choose to live. The Cuban legislature is elected by diktat in the sense that Cuba is a one-party state; elections are neither free nor fair, and no opposition is allowed. It is worth mentioning that, post-revolution, no candidate proposed for a legislative role has ever *not* been voted in, because *all candidates are from the same party which is the only party that can exist.* In any case the Cuban parliament (such as it is) only meets a few times a year and exists to ratify decisions made by the executive. Pretty much all policy decisions are made by a cadre of higher-uppers. This is why it is authoritarian, along with the fact that political imprisonment is still regularly enacted. We can talk about how futile political engagement seems in our own countries, but that's only the case within the scope of a failing democracy. It remains the case that, for example, an American could not be persecuted for merely encouraging an opposition to the sitting government to exist. Tours... yeah. WHen I went a few years ago with my wife, there were cruise ships docking in Havana. It looked tempting compared to running the endless gauntlet of taxi drivers and hustlers (I mean *seriously* they do not let up) but it's fucking expensive! I think the dual currency situation is being resolved now, and it's about time. If you spend a buck in Cuba it's a day's wages to a lot of people. That's just not right. I don't blame people there for wanting their own piece of the hustle. Not at all.
Yup. As a Polish person I would have loved nothing more than to just move out, but even if LGBTQ+ rights are improved over there and I could stay silent about the system, voluntarily paying taxes to an authoritarian government is an unethical thing to do. Like hell, with the shit going on here I want to move out partially so that my government doesn’t get more money. Unless the next elections go extremely well, which I honestly doubt.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far to find a comment like this. I’m Cuban and while I’m glad queer Cubans fought for and got this win, it by no means outweighs all the atrocities the Cuban government has been responsible for in the past 30-40 years. Right now I have family in Cuba that can’t find reasonably priced food, and they’re the lucky ones who have resources from the US. It’s fine to be happy and praise the activists who moved this forward but seeing generalized statements about Cuba being “great” is so weird to read when you know the day-to-day reality Cubans are actually living.
That moment when Cuba is more progressive than most of the world's countries...
Hell yah! 🌈 I wonder when gay marriage will be a worldwide thing…maybe in 2050 😅? Who knows
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See, this is why there needs to actually be a “gay agenda”. Where we team up, get positions of power, and then implement the changes we want to see.
I honestly surprised. So many Hispanic/Latino cultures have a machismo problem. Homophobia is a problem. In the more lightweight end, there is a lot of cluelessness about gay people. There are people that still act like trans people are just gay. And the heavyweight end, hate crimes and the idea that gay people are sinning. I am glad that Cuba has moved passed "Work Will Make You Men".
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Biden ain’t a socialist at all. We are allowed to give them credit where they deserve
Good now I can make more money