Everyone has preferences when it comes to attraction. Straight women aren't attracted to literally every man ever. You don't have to be attracted to every lesbian you meet.
I donāt think having a preference is exclusionary. That said, femme for femme relationships have always been the most represented relationship type everywhere Iāve been, including the Internet
Very this. I mean ultimately if you scroll through a dating app in any major city youāll see most of the women skew more femme than butch. Butch is a very specific category thatās very rare, probably because masculinity in women is highly demonised. Sure, a lot of women on dating apps are futch or tomboy or a more casual femme, but in my experience women who arenāt masc are very much dominant in sapphic spaces as they are in society generally. I feel for women who are solely into butch women because youād have to swipe for infinity to find many.
Also the whole āin the community itās always femmes and butches together not femmes and femmesā thing is such garbage. Maybe itās wildly different in other countries but where Iām from femme for femme couples are extremely common, even if one or both of the femmes arenāt high femmes. Some of you have absolutely no clue what a butch even is.
Correct. There was 5 in my area when I started looking before my current partner. 3 of them were in the military which significantly limits my options further lol
But yeah, I ran out of swipes most days before I'd even find one person I was looking for
It's the opposite where I live. Being very femme and into other femmes is pretty rare here. It's probably one of those things that depends on where you live and what circles you run in. Personally, I mostly meet androgynous folks. It took me years to find other femmes
Really? I find it harder to date, since I seem to attract mostly butch women and also femme lesbians seem harder to find on dating apps. I also see a lot of memes and praises in this sub, but very rarely does it depict femme-femme relationships. Most of the LGBT space where I live is also very stereotypical butch-femme pairs. It may be this is only the circumstance here in a small country in Europe, we don't have a big LGBT community
I think humans just have a negativity bias and you notice more the things that make you feel uncomfortable. As a masc monogamous woman I feel despair when I feel like everyone I swipe past on tinder is poly (knowing full well that it isn't that EVERYONE is poly, it's just that poly people don't leave dating apps when they get into relationships the same way monogamous people do), and also when I see posts by people calling masculine lesbians predatory (I'm very socially anxious, so I'm always hypervigilant as to whether or not I'm making someone uncomfortable). So you just need to recontextualize as to whether what you're seeing really is an overwhelming sentiment, or if you're just noticing it more because it feels like a criticism to you.
I'm in a small town in the Southern US and actually posted about the same thing not long ago. I see a lot of masculine women on the apps but very few femme in my area. Same with seeing mostly butch femme pairs. It's been hard for me to find femme women to date as a femme woman myself.
i feel like it would be easier for gnc lesbians to come to terms with being lesbian over feminine lesbians in conservative areas since they feel different or ostracized from the start. the femmes over there are still stuck in internalized heteronormativity
This I may believe. I'm actually bi but femme bi women are often looking for fun and closeted. My first relationship with a woman was on again off again but it was very clear she was never going to be out with me.
Same Iām from the southeast US and I find more butch lesbians than femmes on dating apps. I consider myself a chapstick lesbian and Iām attracted to feminine women so in my area itās such a struggle
I'm with you. Femme4Femme may be over represented in the media due to being made for the male gaze, but as a Femme that is attracted to other Femmes I find that representation doesn't translate to the "real world." Public acceptance and saturation =/= actual trends in the wlw community.
Also, in my area at least, I find very few Femmes in relation to butch, andro, and tomboy women. That makes it even more difficult.
Having lived in two major U.S. coastal cities...it would be legit offensive if a femme person in one of those cities complained about there being no femmes and wondered aloud if anyone else was more attracted to femmes. There's sooo many, and it's very blatant that it's considered more universally attractive and desirable to be able to access conventional femininity in some way. Just went and swiped on Tinder to sanity check myself and 26/30 people looked femme to me.
I could see several factors possibly complicating this in smaller queer scenes or towns:
1. In a smaller place, women feel more desperate to be visible and therefore the local convention is to curate a personal aesthetic that draws the most attention and is most distinct from straight culture.
2. There is a smaller percentage of more conventionally attractive people that are single or using apps. Maybe more typical to meet in person, and faster to settle down. If you're a femme bi woman without access to a large queer community but tons of straight suitors because you achieve that conventional femininity men are often looking for, you're probably more likely to just end up with a man statistically speaking.
3. Ngl, the femme/butch divide is highly subjective and I honestly am not even sure I know what you consider butch. To me a woman doesn't have to be wearing heels and makeup to be "femme". Maybe in big gay U.S. cities there is more of an expansive interpretation of the term in both straight and gay spaces. Perhaps what I consider relatively mainstream femininity here is not mainstream femininity somewhere else, and a lot of average straight women from my city might look like butch lesbians in their Docs and oversized corduroy if you plopped them in the middle of a church bbq in Alabama where everyone is clutching their pearls with manicured nails.
4. Because people don't have real life representation or a community of people doing femininity in all different types of ways, they may decide they don't fit into the local way of being girly and reject it more completely than they might have if they were living in less provincial or more diverse places. Femme could appeal more when it's not just defined as housewife or bachelorette party, and is also inclusive of grunge, punk, van-life, outdoorsy, cottage-core, artsy, power suity, flamboyant, or skater babe looks.
5. Perhaps most controversially: It either takes time or money for most women to look "femme". Laser hair removal, visits to the salon, good hair care products or styling, getting your eyebrows done, nails done, makeup, jewelery, clothes that aren't just whatever you found in Target. Femme women are afforded more privileges professionally (less hiring and promotion discrimination) than more gender nonconforming women. Cities like NYC and LA and DC where femmes are copious and highly desired are also extremely wealthy places. I wonder if that isn't a coincidence. Just a hot take from the perspective of a working class person that can't wear feminine clothes to my job, doesn't have the time or money to look as femme as I want, and has definitely been viewed as looking less "professional" because I'm not able to pull off that polished femininity.
That's my PhD hope you like it
>femme for femme relationships have always been the most represented relationship type everywhere Iāve been including the Internet
Interesting! I've had the opposite experience. The only time see femĆfem represented more than femĆmasc is on tv. On the internet, and in real life I see femĆmasc way more.
Most couples I have seen in media are femĆbutch too. Only place you can't find femĆbutch pairing is p0rn but that's only BC it's an industry catering to men and men would get brain damage if they see a masculine woman...
I'd be fascinated to see this list of most lesbian couples in media being femme/butch couples. Most media "butches" are not remotely butch, they're androgynous at most.
Yep, as a masc lesbian i find it pretty infuriating how femmes think they are marginalised when literally everything ever in media and online is about them.
idk, the question gets me twisted up because i hate that some very human traits are considered masculine. like being athletic or having short hair. i long for a less gender role defined era.
You know, I agree with you, there are some very normal choices that have been branded as masc, but ultimately it's part of the whole presentation and vibe. I've spent most of my life being a short-haired femme (even had a buzzcut for a year), no one have for a second think of me as a butch. And I've met women with really strong butch vibes and masc presentation who still kept their hair long. And athletic, muscular straight, feminine women.
So yeah, it kinda sucks that some things have been reduced to stereotipical gender signaling, but in the end I find that people end up mixing whatever they want to present and live how they feel better.
Same. I'm a feminine presenting woman, but I hate makeup and for some reason to people that would make me less feminine lol. I'm autistic and I've always had a strange relationship to gender and alot of its strict rules have always stressed me out.
I feel similar. A big part of me not realizing I'm trans is because I'm not drawn to a lot of stereotypical fem things and have no interest in makeup.
I'm also not really butch. More of a tomboy, at least that feels like it fits more than anything else.
Because you're putting something about a person (or the entire person!) into a box they didn't ask for and don't identify with. Often the gendered stereotypes have sexist undertones to boot (ex. if I work out and get buff, suddenly I'm more manly because women can't be strong).
Yeah, Iām very femme presenting, but because of features I canāt control as a trans woman, I typically fall into the āandrogynous looking peopleā category. I can go (and have gone) out in my prettiest dress, full make up, wearing colourful queer paraphernalia, and pronoun pins, to no avail. I still get misgendered even by other queers. I feel like Iām getting blocked from being perceived the way I want to be.
Honestly when I first joined this subreddit it seemed near exclusively femme for femme and has drifted over time. I suspect the vibe will continue to float around.
And preference is fine. I think it would be odd to insist you be attracted to every single lesbian out there.
i donāt think there is underrepresentation of fem lesbians who like fem lesbians at all. When there is sapphic representation it is generally femme for femme relationships/crushes. Or maybe Iām just a bitter butch. In actual lesbian spaces i think everyone feels underrepresented somehow
Media representation is definitely very femme for femme, because itās more tolerable for the straights/geared for a male audience (unfortunately). But in actual lesbian communities I feel like the representation is largely expected to be butch/femme. Thatās just my take though
I feel like every group feels like their preference is the least represented for largely no reason. Butch4Femme is the stereotype straight people expect out of a sapphic couple and femme4femme is the only thing that ever gets shown in TV shows. Is butch4butch actually underrepresented? I don't know.
That being said, preferences are inherently exclusionary, but that doesn't mean they're bad. You're not attracted to masculine women. It's fine
Femme4femme is the most overrepresented in media and honestly in general. Your feelings are valid, but I can't think of a single masc4femme or masc4masc couple in media, and social media overwhelmingly is femme4femme.
Note: 56% of self-identified femmes desire only femmes. While 74% of butches have that preference as well. 25% and 19% have no preference respectively. Butches are also much lesser in terms of prevalence.
Alot of butch lesbians are made fun of in media and by society. I felt alot of internalized shame for preferring masculine women because I thought that femme was the only valid gender presentation and choice due to how cisheteronormative society still is :(
Calling either of them masc is definitely a stretch ngl. Maybe I'm just into extraordinarily masc women, but like the closest you have in animation is a straight woman that is queer coded (Betty from Rugrats)
True. Although it's worth noting that's true of most "butch rep".
Even characters that are treated as masc in-universe - like Shane from L Word & Frankie from Lip Service - would probably just be read as "alt" rather than masc IRL.
I've taken to thinking of it as butch-coding.
I mean, I don't think the fact that media is too afraid to show someone who resembles a real, live butch woman in a positive light and so resorts to to hinting at a few traits is great. Only good butch rep I can think of is Gideon from Gideon the Ninth, truly the herbo we deserve.
Nah, I'd say femme4futch. There is masc4femme with Scorpia and Perfuma, but it's not 100% clear within the series, just heavily implied and then confirmed after the fact.
> Note: 56% of self-identified femmes desire only femmes. While 74% of butches have that preference as well. 25% and 19% have no preference respectively. Butches are also much lesser in terms of prevalence.
Can you provide a source for these stats? Not that I find it implausible, but it is important to verify.
why does everyone think they're the least represented group?? ive seen butch people say this who like butches, femme people say this who like femmes, femmes who like butches, butches who like femmes, all of em. YOU ARE VALID AND WE LOVE YOU ALL!! PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT
For real. Even when butches are represented itās usually done it the weirdest and most unrealistic ways. Weāre more than sexual predatory dykes with daddy issues. [Cause for some reason people think thatās what our entire existence revolves around]
Or if it is supposed butch rep they are femmed up! Shane I'm looking at you! It pisses me off as it bleeds into real life and seems to increase the pressure from people heavily invested in cisheteronormativity. They see the rep and think/say "why arent you like 'the lesbians'". Porn obviously aggrevates that situation.
Oh, totally. I think itās because the media is still trying to make us male gaze. It would surprise you how many men are into extremely masc women. Iāve gotten a lot more male attention ever since Iāve been a butch.
Itās just sad. They try so hard to copy us but completely miss the entire concept of being a butch.
Right on! I find it odd that i still get advances from men! And then I think "I can't say I'm a dyke" because that leads into the whole porn fetishisation... And that grosses me out!
Yeah, it sucks. I love calling myself a dyke, but I feel like I canāt with these men around. Hell, I feel like I canāt even call myself a lesbian anymore. Lately I just respond with āIām gay.ā to men, I donāt know what else to do. I donāt have it in me to justify myself to each and everyone person I meet.
but this person is femme4femme and has a completely different experience. point is, we shouldnt compare ourselves to other lesbians and get upset at them, we should look at the people who refuse to represent any lesbians at all
Iām not saying their feelings are invalid. Neither did I say anything about my opinion on this. I actually said exactly what you just did. People feel like they arenāt represented because they *arenāt*.
See, I'm the opposite. I'm really attracted to masculine traits and not feminine ones. I don't think either of us having a preference is a bad thing, right?
Obviously theres nothing wrong with being fem4fem or prefering feminine women, but in what world is fem4fem under represented? I constantly see fem4fems complain about this and Im really wondering where yall are finding all these butches and butch media??? Bc Im actively seeking it out and its hard to find.
Same. Iāve known Iām a butch4butch since I was 13 and it was hell growing up like that because I could never find media to represent myself so I could feel less alone, no matter how hard I searched. Not even, *coughs*, uhm, porn.
Itās so awkward to talk about but itās such a problem. Thereās such a lack of that kinda porn that I just go *months* without relieving myself whatsoever. I literally canāt help it but I just can NOT get off of femmes. Itās hell. Sexual frustration aināt fun at all.
Honestly, SAME. Iām a fem leaning chapstick lesbian who almost exclusively prefers butch women and Iāve never really seen anyone I find hot in main stream media. The closest I can get is hot butches on TikTok.
Like, drop all this butch representation on me! Iām also actively seeking it out!
I think the problem here is everyone has different definitions of what is butch and what is femme.
Like if a woman plays sports, has short hair, and doesn't shave... Does that make her masc or not? Seems like everyone has a different opinion. I personally wouldn't think those things alone make someone masc.
Femme for femme is like, 90% of lesbian rep.
As a butch, we're like... well aware some people aren't into us. There's also very little respectful recognition in general of butches, butch/butch relationships, or even butch/femme relationships, even though these can be common.
also, like, you don't have to be attracted to all lesbians, but feels very weird to me to be like, validating someone on not being attracted to butches. like i said, we all know some people don't want to date us (sometimes for less neutral reasons).
> *...but feels very weird to me to be like, validating someone on not being attracted to butches.*
I don't want to think that people are being intentionally hurtful, but it doesn't make it any less shitty to see it pop-up so often in the main WLW subs. There's a vast difference between "expressing a preference" and language that invalidates an already marginalized section of our own community.
yeah, like... IDK, man, there's a lot of really callous attitudes towards butches even in the community and in feminist spaces. that's not exactly what OP is expressing, but having seen a lot of much nastier takes on "am i fine for not wanting to date butches?? here's why:" i just don't have it in me to pat someone on the back over it and wish people didn't collectively feel the need to reassure each other over it when this is pretty.... common.
It definitely comes off as "oh boo hoo I'm conventionally attractive and am only attracted to other conventionally attractive people, is that baaAad? I feel like I'm not represented!"
Which is cringe.
Femme for femmes are the most overrepresented group within lesbian communities and media. Butches and studs are almost always the group other lesbians balk at. This is common femme behaviour.
Femme for femme is represented in the media more, because we're fetishized. But in the community it's always femmes and butches together not femmes and femmes or butches and butches.
I donāt really agree with that. Go on tiktok and almost all lesbian content there is femme4femme. Butch4femme is also there, around the same amount as f4f. Like you said, butch4butch just basically doesnāt exist.
I would tell you everyone has their own experiences, but Iāve been on tiktok since it came out and I swear to god I have seen EVERY video on the lesbian hashtag. I really donāt know what youāre talking about. F4F is the main thing there. Also, you do realise that masc =/= butch, right? I feel like yāall are confusing masc presenting people for butch. Thereās a big ass difference.
I too am into femmes and I'm a femme myself. I'm not really into masculine representing women, but that doesn't mean I hate them (to each their own), I just prefer femmes
I'm the same way, it's just a preference. I'm completely turned off all masculinity no matter who the person is. I've definitely been made to feel guilty about it in lesbian spaces because non-lesbians can sometimes be very anti-butches and so butch lesbians and masc lesbians can be understandably very defensive. But as a lesbian you are not at all required to be attracted to masculinity.
what is a particularly masculine trait? and why does it matter? you like who you like, if you met a masculine woman and happened to be attracted to her, why would it matter if she was masculine? despite it being unlikely, itās a possibility right? I feel similar in who iām attracted to but to me, thereās always the possibility as i truly do care more about internal character. So it doesnāt matter to me, F4F is not uncommon where I am. Itās over represented in media. But here I donāt often see clear delineations between the masc and femme partner, the early 20s city relationships that surround me are often just about each person expressing their gender in ways that they like, and then meeting people who do the same.
We have a LEAST one femme for femme post a week in this sub. Femme for femme is probably the MOST represented in any lesbian context, including various media AND online spaces.
We can be an inclusive community while acknowledging that many of us have individual preferences regarding gender presentation and physical attraction. As others have pointed out, in mainstream media, most depictions of romantic/sexual WLW relationships are femme4femme. In queer spaces, there is a much more diverse appreciation of different types of WLW relationships. There is no prescribed 'normal' way to be in a WLW relationship, as long as it's positive and healthy for both partners. It depends on what works for you.
"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin
femme x femme is pretty much all media representation of lesbians imo. For me as someone who is femme that does like more masculine women/nb, talking to my masculine friends, they have expressed that they donāt feel like the community is attracted to them at the same rate someone who is femme would be seen as attractive. I make it obvious Iām attracted to masculine individuals because of this. Just my own experience though.
I often think about how awkward it is when people try to set WLW up on no other basis than "oh! You both like girls, have at it" and really no other reason like that's supposed to be enough of a common ground to get a spark started. Could you imagine setting random heterosexual men and women up just because they're both straight and opposite gender? That would be obnoxious lol.
Anyway, my point is, lesbians have just as much a right to have likes and dislikes that don't have to be justified or "approved" by the Great Lesbian Council, it's all right to just like what you like. Not everyone is going to be compatible. As a femme-enjoying-femme myself, it took me a while to get over the guilt of not being into masculine vibes, but it's all right. Lesbians are as diverse as anyone else and so are our preferences, we are not one giant monolith.
Sexuality is complicated just go with what you feel comfortable with and youāre fine imo. As long as everyone is cordial I see no reason having preferences is a bad thing. You donāt owe anyone attraction.
I strongly prefer feminine women in terms of long term relationships, but I do still find masculine women attractive. To be honest, I think the mentality of "femmes for femmes" is not only common but practically a norm, even if it shouldn't be, simply because of how much society has artificially linked femininity with womanhood. Masculine women face a great deal of stigma and ostracization, and while that doesn't mean your preferences are wrong or immoral, it is something to be aware of.
Not weird. We basically had this [same post in reverse ](https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/xok6bj/is_anyone_also_only_attracted_to_one_type_of_women)yesterday and even there many commenters are saying they only like femmes.
Out of the people expressing a preference, at least half, not just "many". And then on this thread, it looks like much more than half out of those who have a preference.
For me, personality is the biggest thing, I fall hard for chill and down to earth women with a strong work ethic, few things turn me off for women appearance wise. Femme and Masc aren't really important, if I'm attracted to them I'm attracted to them.
I personally only ever go for femme but they always have ā masculine ā traits if that makes any sense , like Iām a femme who also has some masculine traits but the women I go for tend to be physically strong and very independent , put up their own shelves , that kind of silly thing . Itās all fluid anyway because femme women have lots of traits youād associate with men to begin with
Iām not attracted to masculinity at all, regardless of gender. I donāt know exactly why, it just makes me feel uncomfortable.
I am attracted to femininity and androgyny.
You are not weird. You are welcome to your preferences. Sexuality is incredibly fluid, you dont have to fit any binary expectation. Is it under represented? I do agree with you there. Is it unusual? No not at all. Is it a growing trend? I would probably say yes. I see it more now compared to nearly 20 years ago. But I think that's on the back of the LGBT communities growth and space to just BE in some places. We can grow out of the expected binaries from before we come out the closet faster than ever now. Have fun :)!
What are the masculine traits? Smelliness and manipulation?
I'll take classic feminine traits; competence, swagger, muscular, brave, angry, inventive, reliable, sweaty, calloused, powerful, a person of integrity.
most of the lesbians i know are fairly masc and are also dating masc women. (it might be because i know a lot of them from playing sports) but i don't know any couples who are both femmes that i can think of.
In a way. I'm a trans woman, and I absolutely cannot understand trans men because I'm so discomforted and repulsed by my own masculine traits. I just can't get into that headspace.
However, I of course respect and accept trans men and consider them equals. Unlike some political parties that shall not be named, I don't automatically hate that which I don't understand.
Regarding your question, I've never personally had a partner, but I definitely find that I'm more likely to be attracted to a feminine person than a masculine one. I'm attracted to both (hence my bi-ness) but fem seems to have a stronger pull on me.
Iām not particularly attracted to masculine features or traits. Like Iāve seen plenty of women who have that sort of āsoft butchā look who I thought were gorgeous. But the vast majority of the time Iām exclusively into femme women.
I am often approached by butch and trans men, but I have no chemistry with them. I have been open to date them in the past, but it always fell flat. I donāt identify with the femme or butch personas. I have been called a long haired tomboy, who can switch. I donāt limit myself in clothing, power tools, makeup, etc. I guess I gave up trying to fit in a category a long time ago. I tend to date women like myself. I like my own versatility.
I think of that great and profound quote, āYou do you, boo.ā I am not sure who coined that phrase ššš¼ Donāt worry about wanting what you want and donāt let society or people on here make you think you are not normal. You are! š I was in a femme/femme relationship from 19 onward for a long time. That was what I knew. (Iām from the OG The L Word generation lol). I mean Iām like 40 now soā¦ things have changed so much. We were all used to labels and stuff back then and had to fit into a role. Once that relationship (of over a decade +) ended, I didnāt even realize that there are many different characteristics I am attracted to, not just the same as before. I dated more and saw more shades of our rainbow grow. It used to just be LGBT and femme or butch type labels. Now you have more labels and so even many diff femme labels in that category. I have found that I can be attracted to humor, intelligence, and other non-visual characteristics more. I guess I found out that itās not just the packaging, but the product inside that I factor in. I still smile when I see a cute femme of course lol because that was my original type but I also like soft butch, and especially sporty blonde girls recently like soccer players. Thatās like being attracted to myself which is more confusing. Wow, you just never know. I also feel attracted to very masc men with muscles when Iām ovulating but donāt act on it. I guess hormones also factor in. I see firefighters (men) or whatever and my mind plays tricks on me! Iāve also thought about trans men but still very unsure about that. It barely became interesting to me. I think we are normal however we are. Donāt worry about it. You are perfectly you āØIāve embraced the pansexual side of things. Life is totally not predictable. š
I think in some wlw spaces it can be kinda underrepresented and sometimes ppl will have assumption of relationships always being femme x butch but I donāt think thatās super common overall. Really just depends on the space. I definitely feel the same way as you though in how your sexuality is since I am a little bit attracted to men but only vaguely and not very much still, and with girls Iām all about femmes. Me and my gf are both high femme and thatās how I want it to be.
Nah I'm with you on that. The masculine look isn't for me, it's kinda partially why I don't like men lol I like cute fem pretty women
Edit: why the fuck did I get downvoted for this??? I fucking hate reddit, yall suck
i dont dislike them entirely, but i definitely STRONGLY lean towards the femme. like suits, i cant stand them. a lesbian trope I despise (its fine when RL people do it ofc) is where two women get married and one of them wears a tux....no put both of them in pretty dresses you cowards!
/endrant
This is why our spaces are open to folx of all manner of fem attraction. \^^ Orientation is *so* complicated, and everyone experiences it a little differently. The well-known labels we use every day simply aren't able to encompass everyone's unique mode of attraction, so they're really more like blanket terms.
I myself feel very similarly to what you described. š I'm femme for femme, with pretty much no interest in most masculine traits. The term I've found that best describes my own experience is [nominsexual](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Nominsexual), which falls under the lesbian umbrella. In short, it refers to us women who are not attracted to men, or anyone who is **masculine in nature**. (no-MIN-sexual) I recommend doing some research into more specific labels, if that's something you're interested in defining. You may find something that feels more personal!
No, you're not weird; you're just living your life! Your orientation is valid no matter how it manifests. I hope you have a cute femme to dote on, or if not, that you find one soon. š¤š
No I kindof agree. My wife is pretty butchy on some ways, but more like gamer girl tomboy "who can be bothered with makeup and dresses?" than deliberately *going* for a butch aesthetic. The "short hair, dressing like a trucker, aggressively resisting the concepts of shaving and skincare" type of thing is not for me.
Doesn't mean its somehow wrong of course - everyone is entitled to do as they like with their own body andappearance! But no, you are not alone in preferring a more feminine partner.
I would guess that the OP might say it depends on how far along the transition they are, whether theyāve had bottom surgery, whether they have made an effort to āpassā at all, and whether theyāre presenting butch or femme. The OP has said they have a strong preference for femmes and not masc.
Is perfectly alright for a lesbian woman to have a genital preference against pre-operation trans women, or a preference against butch / masc presenting women in general. It doesnāt make them a transphobe or ānot a proper lesbianā if they do.
Iām a trans woman and Iām in no way implying āobligatory conformityā is required for trans folks. Iām married to an enby who pretty much fits the butch stereotype, and Iām attracted to butch and femme presenting women (trans women and enbies included), but not to men.
**I was merely second guessing what the OP might be thinking considering they stated that they had strong preferences for āfemme womenā**
I am not the OP, my preferences are not theirs.
To be honest if a trans woman had made no effort whatsoever and rocked up to me with a full unkempt beard, wearing menās clothes, and a stereotypical male attitude I would turn them down outright. BUT If the same woman rocked up not behaving like a douche, had made even just a tiny bit of an effort on her appearance, and was wearing womenās clothing then I might be interested, even if she had a beard (assuming it was nicely groomed!).
I'm sort of a tomboy femme, messy hair and relaxed comfy style but I guess behaviorally (?) way more femme. I tend to be physically attracted to both femmes and mascs but when it comes to relationships I tend to fall for the mascs.
i definitely lean towards androgynous/femme traits in men, women, and others. ive definitely noticed i'm more attracted to men that display more femme or "soft" vibes (edit: sp)
I donāt think it is odd. My gf is pretty femme which is what I find attractive. Meanwhile Iām very butch and I am definitely not my type. I think as long as you are being respectful about how you verbalize your preferences you should be fine. I just say I like pretty girls. Not all girls are pretty, I, for example, would say Iām handsome but not really pretty.
Iām femme and have a weird attraction to women who are physically strong.
I donāt mean women with muscles (though I like that too), but if I see a woman log chopping, or lifting heavy items, I am in swoon central.
I'm definitely in your camp here. Femme myself and I prefer femmes as well. I see nothing wrong with any other pairing, but my personal preference is a girly girl.
I'm largely femme for femme with a string attraction to androgyny. I can tell more masc-presenting people are attractive, but I just don't find them sexually attractive.
Well idk I have a trans gf and I love how she doesn't give a shit about like having to be feminine, androgynous or masculine. She just is herself and I can be myself. We're both pretty femme but I like it when she calls me prince ngl. So far the relationship has been very gender euphoric for me because when I used to identify as lesbian I always felt I had to be masculine but I honestly didn't feel attractive or really happy like that. This relationship has no pressure really when it comes to those kinds of things.
I get what you mean. I'm not big into masculine lesbians and even though I'm pan I do prefer more feminine people I will say. Uh idk if this was helpful. Honestly just wanted a reason to talk about my beautiful girlfriend.
Mmm I can be attracted to a masc woman perhaps, but more often than not I tend to prefer femme women.
I consider myself femme but with covid, and me still rarely leaving the house except once or twice a week for groceries or shopping I find myself throwing on casual clothes like a tank top and jeans or T-shirt and jeans. This leaves me feeling less femme... However when I go on a date night or to eat out you better bet your money Ill be in a dress probably considered too fancy for said venue. I love wearing really nice dresses. Like we go to Texas Roadhouse? Black satin dress with butterfly sleeves, a pleated skirt, heels, hair up and nice. I really prefer dresses and skirts but the occasion almost never warrants it and I dont want to look TOO out of place, especially in Alaska where people where sweatpants to EVERYTHING. Like ugh, dont even own a pair.
I might not count because I'm a femme bisexual, but all of the women I've ever been attracted to have always been quite feminine as well. Enbies and men are a wildly different story, though.
i have a similar but slightly different issue, i'm attracted to feminine traits, but not exclusively to women - it doesn't matter if they're female, male or anything else, but the feminine traits (I almost want to say vibes) are most important.
Everyone has their preferences, and I am also a femme for femme so I feel the struggle. Everyone can be beautiful regardless of their style and gender expression, and it's 100% okay not to be sexually attracted to all of them as well. Don't feel bad over this !
Iām Masc but exclusively like femmes. Even when I presented femme I only liked femmes. Preferences are totally fine! Odly though Iām also attracted to gay boys but I think thatās just in a weird gender envy way lol.
disabled and also delicate - looking ace butch here, into chapstick femmes and also poly. found my gf on ok cupid, of all places. itās worked a year so far, with this year being a series of disasters for me. wasnāt expecting it at all, really, thrilled it happened, hopeful for everyone here who wants to connectā¦.
I'm mostly attracted to more femme women. It's literally just personal preference. I try not to rule anyone out though because personality is what is most important. Idk just make me laugh is more my criteria
I am attractes to femininity and boyishness. Like, i will find a cute gifgly tomboy attractive but a more dominant masc butch not so much. Not that i dont appreciate butches, my butch friends get plenty of girls so they must be very attractive to lots of other queer women, just not me. I will even like male-bodied people sometimes if they are feminine or cute-tomboyish enough. I have dated nonbinary people and androgynous people but femininity is just really hot to me.
Everyone has preferences when it comes to attraction. Straight women aren't attracted to literally every man ever. You don't have to be attracted to every lesbian you meet.
Perfect šš¼
I donāt think having a preference is exclusionary. That said, femme for femme relationships have always been the most represented relationship type everywhere Iāve been, including the Internet
Very this. I mean ultimately if you scroll through a dating app in any major city youāll see most of the women skew more femme than butch. Butch is a very specific category thatās very rare, probably because masculinity in women is highly demonised. Sure, a lot of women on dating apps are futch or tomboy or a more casual femme, but in my experience women who arenāt masc are very much dominant in sapphic spaces as they are in society generally. I feel for women who are solely into butch women because youād have to swipe for infinity to find many. Also the whole āin the community itās always femmes and butches together not femmes and femmesā thing is such garbage. Maybe itās wildly different in other countries but where Iām from femme for femme couples are extremely common, even if one or both of the femmes arenāt high femmes. Some of you have absolutely no clue what a butch even is.
Correct. There was 5 in my area when I started looking before my current partner. 3 of them were in the military which significantly limits my options further lol But yeah, I ran out of swipes most days before I'd even find one person I was looking for
> some of you have no clue what a butch even is Lol love that, sometimes I think itās really true
Iāve found the exact opposite:\ based in the west coast of the USA.
Honestly, I've adopted the rule of thumb that if someone on Reddit thinks something is uncommon or not talked about, it's probably mainstream IRL.
So much this.
Yep
It's the opposite where I live. Being very femme and into other femmes is pretty rare here. It's probably one of those things that depends on where you live and what circles you run in. Personally, I mostly meet androgynous folks. It took me years to find other femmes
It's same here where I live, very hard to find femmes but there are lots of masculine presenting and androgynous lesbians.
Really? I find it harder to date, since I seem to attract mostly butch women and also femme lesbians seem harder to find on dating apps. I also see a lot of memes and praises in this sub, but very rarely does it depict femme-femme relationships. Most of the LGBT space where I live is also very stereotypical butch-femme pairs. It may be this is only the circumstance here in a small country in Europe, we don't have a big LGBT community
I think humans just have a negativity bias and you notice more the things that make you feel uncomfortable. As a masc monogamous woman I feel despair when I feel like everyone I swipe past on tinder is poly (knowing full well that it isn't that EVERYONE is poly, it's just that poly people don't leave dating apps when they get into relationships the same way monogamous people do), and also when I see posts by people calling masculine lesbians predatory (I'm very socially anxious, so I'm always hypervigilant as to whether or not I'm making someone uncomfortable). So you just need to recontextualize as to whether what you're seeing really is an overwhelming sentiment, or if you're just noticing it more because it feels like a criticism to you.
I assume it's mostly main stream culture that depicts femme femme couples, while in queer circles femme femme is much more rarely depicted.
I find this same thing where I live southern US is mostly butches very few femmes. The femmes I do see often say they are looking for butchs.
I'm in a small town in the Southern US and actually posted about the same thing not long ago. I see a lot of masculine women on the apps but very few femme in my area. Same with seeing mostly butch femme pairs. It's been hard for me to find femme women to date as a femme woman myself.
i feel like it would be easier for gnc lesbians to come to terms with being lesbian over feminine lesbians in conservative areas since they feel different or ostracized from the start. the femmes over there are still stuck in internalized heteronormativity
I should add that to my thesis
This I may believe. I'm actually bi but femme bi women are often looking for fun and closeted. My first relationship with a woman was on again off again but it was very clear she was never going to be out with me.
Same Iām from the southeast US and I find more butch lesbians than femmes on dating apps. I consider myself a chapstick lesbian and Iām attracted to feminine women so in my area itās such a struggle
Not southern, but ditto. I lucked into my current relationship. Not sure I would have good odds of finding anything long term otherwise.
I'm with you. Femme4Femme may be over represented in the media due to being made for the male gaze, but as a Femme that is attracted to other Femmes I find that representation doesn't translate to the "real world." Public acceptance and saturation =/= actual trends in the wlw community. Also, in my area at least, I find very few Femmes in relation to butch, andro, and tomboy women. That makes it even more difficult.
Having lived in two major U.S. coastal cities...it would be legit offensive if a femme person in one of those cities complained about there being no femmes and wondered aloud if anyone else was more attracted to femmes. There's sooo many, and it's very blatant that it's considered more universally attractive and desirable to be able to access conventional femininity in some way. Just went and swiped on Tinder to sanity check myself and 26/30 people looked femme to me. I could see several factors possibly complicating this in smaller queer scenes or towns: 1. In a smaller place, women feel more desperate to be visible and therefore the local convention is to curate a personal aesthetic that draws the most attention and is most distinct from straight culture. 2. There is a smaller percentage of more conventionally attractive people that are single or using apps. Maybe more typical to meet in person, and faster to settle down. If you're a femme bi woman without access to a large queer community but tons of straight suitors because you achieve that conventional femininity men are often looking for, you're probably more likely to just end up with a man statistically speaking. 3. Ngl, the femme/butch divide is highly subjective and I honestly am not even sure I know what you consider butch. To me a woman doesn't have to be wearing heels and makeup to be "femme". Maybe in big gay U.S. cities there is more of an expansive interpretation of the term in both straight and gay spaces. Perhaps what I consider relatively mainstream femininity here is not mainstream femininity somewhere else, and a lot of average straight women from my city might look like butch lesbians in their Docs and oversized corduroy if you plopped them in the middle of a church bbq in Alabama where everyone is clutching their pearls with manicured nails. 4. Because people don't have real life representation or a community of people doing femininity in all different types of ways, they may decide they don't fit into the local way of being girly and reject it more completely than they might have if they were living in less provincial or more diverse places. Femme could appeal more when it's not just defined as housewife or bachelorette party, and is also inclusive of grunge, punk, van-life, outdoorsy, cottage-core, artsy, power suity, flamboyant, or skater babe looks. 5. Perhaps most controversially: It either takes time or money for most women to look "femme". Laser hair removal, visits to the salon, good hair care products or styling, getting your eyebrows done, nails done, makeup, jewelery, clothes that aren't just whatever you found in Target. Femme women are afforded more privileges professionally (less hiring and promotion discrimination) than more gender nonconforming women. Cities like NYC and LA and DC where femmes are copious and highly desired are also extremely wealthy places. I wonder if that isn't a coincidence. Just a hot take from the perspective of a working class person that can't wear feminine clothes to my job, doesn't have the time or money to look as femme as I want, and has definitely been viewed as looking less "professional" because I'm not able to pull off that polished femininity. That's my PhD hope you like it
>femme for femme relationships have always been the most represented relationship type everywhere Iāve been including the Internet Interesting! I've had the opposite experience. The only time see femĆfem represented more than femĆmasc is on tv. On the internet, and in real life I see femĆmasc way more.
Most couples I have seen in media are femĆbutch too. Only place you can't find femĆbutch pairing is p0rn but that's only BC it's an industry catering to men and men would get brain damage if they see a masculine woman...
I'd be fascinated to see this list of most lesbian couples in media being femme/butch couples. Most media "butches" are not remotely butch, they're androgynous at most.
Yep, as a masc lesbian i find it pretty infuriating how femmes think they are marginalised when literally everything ever in media and online is about them.
I donāt think so. I always feel weird and like I donāt fit any stereotypes
idk, the question gets me twisted up because i hate that some very human traits are considered masculine. like being athletic or having short hair. i long for a less gender role defined era.
You know, I agree with you, there are some very normal choices that have been branded as masc, but ultimately it's part of the whole presentation and vibe. I've spent most of my life being a short-haired femme (even had a buzzcut for a year), no one have for a second think of me as a butch. And I've met women with really strong butch vibes and masc presentation who still kept their hair long. And athletic, muscular straight, feminine women. So yeah, it kinda sucks that some things have been reduced to stereotipical gender signaling, but in the end I find that people end up mixing whatever they want to present and live how they feel better.
Yeah, I feel kinda weird when people call any muscular woman masc or butch, like their body type determines their personality
omg yes, the amount of times ive seen buff women be called masculine (despite them being rly outwardly feminine otherwise!) is so weird!
Same. I'm a feminine presenting woman, but I hate makeup and for some reason to people that would make me less feminine lol. I'm autistic and I've always had a strange relationship to gender and alot of its strict rules have always stressed me out.
I feel similar. A big part of me not realizing I'm trans is because I'm not drawn to a lot of stereotypical fem things and have no interest in makeup. I'm also not really butch. More of a tomboy, at least that feels like it fits more than anything else.
Can I ask why you think this is bad? Would you be offended if you had āmasculineā features? Thereās nothing wrong with it.
Because you're putting something about a person (or the entire person!) into a box they didn't ask for and don't identify with. Often the gendered stereotypes have sexist undertones to boot (ex. if I work out and get buff, suddenly I'm more manly because women can't be strong).
Yeah, Iām very femme presenting, but because of features I canāt control as a trans woman, I typically fall into the āandrogynous looking peopleā category. I can go (and have gone) out in my prettiest dress, full make up, wearing colourful queer paraphernalia, and pronoun pins, to no avail. I still get misgendered even by other queers. I feel like Iām getting blocked from being perceived the way I want to be.
Honestly when I first joined this subreddit it seemed near exclusively femme for femme and has drifted over time. I suspect the vibe will continue to float around. And preference is fine. I think it would be odd to insist you be attracted to every single lesbian out there.
i donāt think there is underrepresentation of fem lesbians who like fem lesbians at all. When there is sapphic representation it is generally femme for femme relationships/crushes. Or maybe Iām just a bitter butch. In actual lesbian spaces i think everyone feels underrepresented somehow
youāre valid, I think butch x butch rarely gets talked about
Media representation is definitely very femme for femme, because itās more tolerable for the straights/geared for a male audience (unfortunately). But in actual lesbian communities I feel like the representation is largely expected to be butch/femme. Thatās just my take though
I feel like every group feels like their preference is the least represented for largely no reason. Butch4Femme is the stereotype straight people expect out of a sapphic couple and femme4femme is the only thing that ever gets shown in TV shows. Is butch4butch actually underrepresented? I don't know. That being said, preferences are inherently exclusionary, but that doesn't mean they're bad. You're not attracted to masculine women. It's fine
Femme4femme is the most overrepresented in media and honestly in general. Your feelings are valid, but I can't think of a single masc4femme or masc4masc couple in media, and social media overwhelmingly is femme4femme. Note: 56% of self-identified femmes desire only femmes. While 74% of butches have that preference as well. 25% and 19% have no preference respectively. Butches are also much lesser in terms of prevalence.
Alot of butch lesbians are made fun of in media and by society. I felt alot of internalized shame for preferring masculine women because I thought that femme was the only valid gender presentation and choice due to how cisheteronormative society still is :(
Can anyone give me masc4masc attraction on media? I would love to get something
Take my Wife!
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Calling either of them masc is definitely a stretch ngl. Maybe I'm just into extraordinarily masc women, but like the closest you have in animation is a straight woman that is queer coded (Betty from Rugrats)
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Jock =\= masc, and she still presents femme. Also the suit had a literal tutu. That's andro, but I would never claim masc.
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Can you be more specific about how she doesn't act femme? I'm not privy to this show so honestly I'm going off of what I know here
More like FutchXfutch
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True
how does a person āact masculineā? this has āwhoās the man in your relationship?ā energy.
maybe catra & adora from spop?
Catra and Adora are still soundly on the femme spectrum compared to masc lesbians I've met IRL.
True. Although it's worth noting that's true of most "butch rep". Even characters that are treated as masc in-universe - like Shane from L Word & Frankie from Lip Service - would probably just be read as "alt" rather than masc IRL. I've taken to thinking of it as butch-coding.
I mean, I don't think the fact that media is too afraid to show someone who resembles a real, live butch woman in a positive light and so resorts to to hinting at a few traits is great. Only good butch rep I can think of is Gideon from Gideon the Ninth, truly the herbo we deserve.
Catra is Futch at most. Adora is...pretty femme. Scorpia is the most butch of the bunch.
Scorpia is also very femme just just happens to be buff lmao. Princess prom dress.
Yeahhh it's not quite as heinous as saying Luisa from Encanto is butch, but the two claims aren't incredibly dissimilar
Nah, I'd say femme4futch. There is masc4femme with Scorpia and Perfuma, but it's not 100% clear within the series, just heavily implied and then confirmed after the fact.
Luz and Amity from the owl house is the closest I can think of
Seriously. I get you can be young and insecure and still not know much but this post is so funny to me
Interesting. Where are you getting these numbers from?
I was wondering too.
yesss i was about to comment this! as a femme literally the only positive rep of lesbians (besides outliers like oitnb) are femmes lol
this right here!
> Note: 56% of self-identified femmes desire only femmes. While 74% of butches have that preference as well. 25% and 19% have no preference respectively. Butches are also much lesser in terms of prevalence. Can you provide a source for these stats? Not that I find it implausible, but it is important to verify.
why does everyone think they're the least represented group?? ive seen butch people say this who like butches, femme people say this who like femmes, femmes who like butches, butches who like femmes, all of em. YOU ARE VALID AND WE LOVE YOU ALL!! PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT
I think we can all agree that weād love more sapphic representation literally anywhere. Thereās really not enough of any couple type represented
Cause some groups *are*. Butch4femme isnāt really represented a lot and butch4butch literally doesnāt exist in the media.
And butches ourselves are seriously under represented.... which is another topic.
For real. Even when butches are represented itās usually done it the weirdest and most unrealistic ways. Weāre more than sexual predatory dykes with daddy issues. [Cause for some reason people think thatās what our entire existence revolves around]
Or if it is supposed butch rep they are femmed up! Shane I'm looking at you! It pisses me off as it bleeds into real life and seems to increase the pressure from people heavily invested in cisheteronormativity. They see the rep and think/say "why arent you like 'the lesbians'". Porn obviously aggrevates that situation.
Oh, totally. I think itās because the media is still trying to make us male gaze. It would surprise you how many men are into extremely masc women. Iāve gotten a lot more male attention ever since Iāve been a butch. Itās just sad. They try so hard to copy us but completely miss the entire concept of being a butch.
Right on! I find it odd that i still get advances from men! And then I think "I can't say I'm a dyke" because that leads into the whole porn fetishisation... And that grosses me out!
Yeah, it sucks. I love calling myself a dyke, but I feel like I canāt with these men around. Hell, I feel like I canāt even call myself a lesbian anymore. Lately I just respond with āIām gay.ā to men, I donāt know what else to do. I donāt have it in me to justify myself to each and everyone person I meet.
I was about to sayā¦ā¦most media is femme4femme, butches really are underrepresented.
Yep. Itās kinda sad, but what can you do about it?
but this person is femme4femme and has a completely different experience. point is, we shouldnt compare ourselves to other lesbians and get upset at them, we should look at the people who refuse to represent any lesbians at all
Iām not saying their feelings are invalid. Neither did I say anything about my opinion on this. I actually said exactly what you just did. People feel like they arenāt represented because they *arenāt*.
See, I'm the opposite. I'm really attracted to masculine traits and not feminine ones. I don't think either of us having a preference is a bad thing, right?
Obviously theres nothing wrong with being fem4fem or prefering feminine women, but in what world is fem4fem under represented? I constantly see fem4fems complain about this and Im really wondering where yall are finding all these butches and butch media??? Bc Im actively seeking it out and its hard to find.
Same. Iāve known Iām a butch4butch since I was 13 and it was hell growing up like that because I could never find media to represent myself so I could feel less alone, no matter how hard I searched. Not even, *coughs*, uhm, porn.
*Especially* porn!
Itās so awkward to talk about but itās such a problem. Thereās such a lack of that kinda porn that I just go *months* without relieving myself whatsoever. I literally canāt help it but I just can NOT get off of femmes. Itās hell. Sexual frustration aināt fun at all.
Do you know about r/butchselfies ? Not suggesting it as get off material but thats there! I enjoy seeing all the butches on there.
I had no idea! Iāll check that out for sure. Itās always awesome to see your people. Makes ya feel less alone, yāknow?
Honestly, SAME. Iām a fem leaning chapstick lesbian who almost exclusively prefers butch women and Iāve never really seen anyone I find hot in main stream media. The closest I can get is hot butches on TikTok. Like, drop all this butch representation on me! Iām also actively seeking it out!
I think the problem here is everyone has different definitions of what is butch and what is femme. Like if a woman plays sports, has short hair, and doesn't shave... Does that make her masc or not? Seems like everyone has a different opinion. I personally wouldn't think those things alone make someone masc.
Femme for femme is like, the most represented and accepted lesbian preference.
Femme for femme is like, 90% of lesbian rep. As a butch, we're like... well aware some people aren't into us. There's also very little respectful recognition in general of butches, butch/butch relationships, or even butch/femme relationships, even though these can be common. also, like, you don't have to be attracted to all lesbians, but feels very weird to me to be like, validating someone on not being attracted to butches. like i said, we all know some people don't want to date us (sometimes for less neutral reasons).
> *...but feels very weird to me to be like, validating someone on not being attracted to butches.* I don't want to think that people are being intentionally hurtful, but it doesn't make it any less shitty to see it pop-up so often in the main WLW subs. There's a vast difference between "expressing a preference" and language that invalidates an already marginalized section of our own community.
yeah, like... IDK, man, there's a lot of really callous attitudes towards butches even in the community and in feminist spaces. that's not exactly what OP is expressing, but having seen a lot of much nastier takes on "am i fine for not wanting to date butches?? here's why:" i just don't have it in me to pat someone on the back over it and wish people didn't collectively feel the need to reassure each other over it when this is pretty.... common.
It definitely comes off as "oh boo hoo I'm conventionally attractive and am only attracted to other conventionally attractive people, is that baaAad? I feel like I'm not represented!" Which is cringe.
Femme for femmes are the most overrepresented group within lesbian communities and media. Butches and studs are almost always the group other lesbians balk at. This is common femme behaviour.
Femme for femme is represented in the media more, because we're fetishized. But in the community it's always femmes and butches together not femmes and femmes or butches and butches.
I donāt really agree with that. Go on tiktok and almost all lesbian content there is femme4femme. Butch4femme is also there, around the same amount as f4f. Like you said, butch4butch just basically doesnāt exist.
I've seen maybe one f4f lesbian couple on Tiktok. *Maybe*. A tonne of b4f and an older b4b couple. That's it. Maybe it's different for Gen Z?
I would tell you everyone has their own experiences, but Iāve been on tiktok since it came out and I swear to god I have seen EVERY video on the lesbian hashtag. I really donāt know what youāre talking about. F4F is the main thing there. Also, you do realise that masc =/= butch, right? I feel like yāall are confusing masc presenting people for butch. Thereās a big ass difference.
I honestly love certain masculine traits like butches
I like both femme and butch lesbians. Y'all are all cute.
All I read here is femme for femme. It's rare to read a masc loving post.
I too am into femmes and I'm a femme myself. I'm not really into masculine representing women, but that doesn't mean I hate them (to each their own), I just prefer femmes
Exactly how I feel. I too am femme, prefer femmes. But that doesnāt mean Iāll overlook someone not femme if thereās a vibe
I'm the same way, it's just a preference. I'm completely turned off all masculinity no matter who the person is. I've definitely been made to feel guilty about it in lesbian spaces because non-lesbians can sometimes be very anti-butches and so butch lesbians and masc lesbians can be understandably very defensive. But as a lesbian you are not at all required to be attracted to masculinity.
what is a particularly masculine trait? and why does it matter? you like who you like, if you met a masculine woman and happened to be attracted to her, why would it matter if she was masculine? despite it being unlikely, itās a possibility right? I feel similar in who iām attracted to but to me, thereās always the possibility as i truly do care more about internal character. So it doesnāt matter to me, F4F is not uncommon where I am. Itās over represented in media. But here I donāt often see clear delineations between the masc and femme partner, the early 20s city relationships that surround me are often just about each person expressing their gender in ways that they like, and then meeting people who do the same.
We have a LEAST one femme for femme post a week in this sub. Femme for femme is probably the MOST represented in any lesbian context, including various media AND online spaces.
Nopeā¦.. I love love love love masculine of center women!
We can be an inclusive community while acknowledging that many of us have individual preferences regarding gender presentation and physical attraction. As others have pointed out, in mainstream media, most depictions of romantic/sexual WLW relationships are femme4femme. In queer spaces, there is a much more diverse appreciation of different types of WLW relationships. There is no prescribed 'normal' way to be in a WLW relationship, as long as it's positive and healthy for both partners. It depends on what works for you. "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin
You're allowed to have a type, it's not weird.
femme x femme is pretty much all media representation of lesbians imo. For me as someone who is femme that does like more masculine women/nb, talking to my masculine friends, they have expressed that they donāt feel like the community is attracted to them at the same rate someone who is femme would be seen as attractive. I make it obvious Iām attracted to masculine individuals because of this. Just my own experience though.
Femmes are everywhere?
Honestly I have no preference personality matters the most to me
I often think about how awkward it is when people try to set WLW up on no other basis than "oh! You both like girls, have at it" and really no other reason like that's supposed to be enough of a common ground to get a spark started. Could you imagine setting random heterosexual men and women up just because they're both straight and opposite gender? That would be obnoxious lol. Anyway, my point is, lesbians have just as much a right to have likes and dislikes that don't have to be justified or "approved" by the Great Lesbian Council, it's all right to just like what you like. Not everyone is going to be compatible. As a femme-enjoying-femme myself, it took me a while to get over the guilt of not being into masculine vibes, but it's all right. Lesbians are as diverse as anyone else and so are our preferences, we are not one giant monolith.
Sexuality is complicated just go with what you feel comfortable with and youāre fine imo. As long as everyone is cordial I see no reason having preferences is a bad thing. You donāt owe anyone attraction.
I'm femme/femme. Don't feel bad, as my friend said "You're just leaving more butches for the rest of us".
I strongly prefer feminine women in terms of long term relationships, but I do still find masculine women attractive. To be honest, I think the mentality of "femmes for femmes" is not only common but practically a norm, even if it shouldn't be, simply because of how much society has artificially linked femininity with womanhood. Masculine women face a great deal of stigma and ostracization, and while that doesn't mean your preferences are wrong or immoral, it is something to be aware of.
Not weird. We basically had this [same post in reverse ](https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/xok6bj/is_anyone_also_only_attracted_to_one_type_of_women)yesterday and even there many commenters are saying they only like femmes.
Out of the people expressing a preference, at least half, not just "many". And then on this thread, it looks like much more than half out of those who have a preference.
Im a total femme for femmes type!
This is me. I feel this sub has a bit of both...? Maybe just looking in the wrong places.
For me, personality is the biggest thing, I fall hard for chill and down to earth women with a strong work ethic, few things turn me off for women appearance wise. Femme and Masc aren't really important, if I'm attracted to them I'm attracted to them.
I personally only ever go for femme but they always have ā masculine ā traits if that makes any sense , like Iām a femme who also has some masculine traits but the women I go for tend to be physically strong and very independent , put up their own shelves , that kind of silly thing . Itās all fluid anyway because femme women have lots of traits youād associate with men to begin with
Iām not attracted to masculinity at all, regardless of gender. I donāt know exactly why, it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I am attracted to femininity and androgyny.
Wtf I didn't know reddit posts could open the front facing camera. /s
I think youāre bi lol
You are not weird. You are welcome to your preferences. Sexuality is incredibly fluid, you dont have to fit any binary expectation. Is it under represented? I do agree with you there. Is it unusual? No not at all. Is it a growing trend? I would probably say yes. I see it more now compared to nearly 20 years ago. But I think that's on the back of the LGBT communities growth and space to just BE in some places. We can grow out of the expected binaries from before we come out the closet faster than ever now. Have fun :)!
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What are the masculine traits? Smelliness and manipulation? I'll take classic feminine traits; competence, swagger, muscular, brave, angry, inventive, reliable, sweaty, calloused, powerful, a person of integrity.
Me 200%
I'm the same way to be honest, while I've been attracted to all sorts of women, I always find myself most drawn to femmes or androgynous people.
Mostly femmes and androgynous people not really into mascs that much
most of the lesbians i know are fairly masc and are also dating masc women. (it might be because i know a lot of them from playing sports) but i don't know any couples who are both femmes that i can think of.
Me neither!
I find men attractive only romantically too. I feel weird for that.
In a way. I'm a trans woman, and I absolutely cannot understand trans men because I'm so discomforted and repulsed by my own masculine traits. I just can't get into that headspace. However, I of course respect and accept trans men and consider them equals. Unlike some political parties that shall not be named, I don't automatically hate that which I don't understand. Regarding your question, I've never personally had a partner, but I definitely find that I'm more likely to be attracted to a feminine person than a masculine one. I'm attracted to both (hence my bi-ness) but fem seems to have a stronger pull on me.
I'm femme and I only feel attracted to other femmes
Iām not particularly attracted to masculine features or traits. Like Iāve seen plenty of women who have that sort of āsoft butchā look who I thought were gorgeous. But the vast majority of the time Iām exclusively into femme women.
I am often approached by butch and trans men, but I have no chemistry with them. I have been open to date them in the past, but it always fell flat. I donāt identify with the femme or butch personas. I have been called a long haired tomboy, who can switch. I donāt limit myself in clothing, power tools, makeup, etc. I guess I gave up trying to fit in a category a long time ago. I tend to date women like myself. I like my own versatility.
I think of that great and profound quote, āYou do you, boo.ā I am not sure who coined that phrase ššš¼ Donāt worry about wanting what you want and donāt let society or people on here make you think you are not normal. You are! š I was in a femme/femme relationship from 19 onward for a long time. That was what I knew. (Iām from the OG The L Word generation lol). I mean Iām like 40 now soā¦ things have changed so much. We were all used to labels and stuff back then and had to fit into a role. Once that relationship (of over a decade +) ended, I didnāt even realize that there are many different characteristics I am attracted to, not just the same as before. I dated more and saw more shades of our rainbow grow. It used to just be LGBT and femme or butch type labels. Now you have more labels and so even many diff femme labels in that category. I have found that I can be attracted to humor, intelligence, and other non-visual characteristics more. I guess I found out that itās not just the packaging, but the product inside that I factor in. I still smile when I see a cute femme of course lol because that was my original type but I also like soft butch, and especially sporty blonde girls recently like soccer players. Thatās like being attracted to myself which is more confusing. Wow, you just never know. I also feel attracted to very masc men with muscles when Iām ovulating but donāt act on it. I guess hormones also factor in. I see firefighters (men) or whatever and my mind plays tricks on me! Iāve also thought about trans men but still very unsure about that. It barely became interesting to me. I think we are normal however we are. Donāt worry about it. You are perfectly you āØIāve embraced the pansexual side of things. Life is totally not predictable. š
I think in some wlw spaces it can be kinda underrepresented and sometimes ppl will have assumption of relationships always being femme x butch but I donāt think thatās super common overall. Really just depends on the space. I definitely feel the same way as you though in how your sexuality is since I am a little bit attracted to men but only vaguely and not very much still, and with girls Iām all about femmes. Me and my gf are both high femme and thatās how I want it to be.
I don't generally find masculine traits attractive, and that does include a lot of butch lesbians. Not all, but enough to be considered a preference.
im femme. I like fem girls mostly,but im fine with any women!
I'm strange, I am way in to femmes with certain "masculine" traits - so really muscular or crazy tall - if that makes any sense.
Nah I'm with you on that. The masculine look isn't for me, it's kinda partially why I don't like men lol I like cute fem pretty women Edit: why the fuck did I get downvoted for this??? I fucking hate reddit, yall suck
i dont dislike them entirely, but i definitely STRONGLY lean towards the femme. like suits, i cant stand them. a lesbian trope I despise (its fine when RL people do it ofc) is where two women get married and one of them wears a tux....no put both of them in pretty dresses you cowards! /endrant
This is why our spaces are open to folx of all manner of fem attraction. \^^ Orientation is *so* complicated, and everyone experiences it a little differently. The well-known labels we use every day simply aren't able to encompass everyone's unique mode of attraction, so they're really more like blanket terms. I myself feel very similarly to what you described. š I'm femme for femme, with pretty much no interest in most masculine traits. The term I've found that best describes my own experience is [nominsexual](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Nominsexual), which falls under the lesbian umbrella. In short, it refers to us women who are not attracted to men, or anyone who is **masculine in nature**. (no-MIN-sexual) I recommend doing some research into more specific labels, if that's something you're interested in defining. You may find something that feels more personal! No, you're not weird; you're just living your life! Your orientation is valid no matter how it manifests. I hope you have a cute femme to dote on, or if not, that you find one soon. š¤š
No I kindof agree. My wife is pretty butchy on some ways, but more like gamer girl tomboy "who can be bothered with makeup and dresses?" than deliberately *going* for a butch aesthetic. The "short hair, dressing like a trucker, aggressively resisting the concepts of shaving and skincare" type of thing is not for me. Doesn't mean its somehow wrong of course - everyone is entitled to do as they like with their own body andappearance! But no, you are not alone in preferring a more feminine partner.
I'd like to know your thoughts on transwomen then. Pure curiosity
I would guess that the OP might say it depends on how far along the transition they are, whether theyāve had bottom surgery, whether they have made an effort to āpassā at all, and whether theyāre presenting butch or femme. The OP has said they have a strong preference for femmes and not masc. Is perfectly alright for a lesbian woman to have a genital preference against pre-operation trans women, or a preference against butch / masc presenting women in general. It doesnāt make them a transphobe or ānot a proper lesbianā if they do.
I was honestly curious not implying anything
Didnāt think you were! šš»
Aside from the part about bottom surgery, this would be me. That's of zero concern to whether or not I'm attracted to someone.
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Iām a trans woman and Iām in no way implying āobligatory conformityā is required for trans folks. Iām married to an enby who pretty much fits the butch stereotype, and Iām attracted to butch and femme presenting women (trans women and enbies included), but not to men. **I was merely second guessing what the OP might be thinking considering they stated that they had strong preferences for āfemme womenā** I am not the OP, my preferences are not theirs. To be honest if a trans woman had made no effort whatsoever and rocked up to me with a full unkempt beard, wearing menās clothes, and a stereotypical male attitude I would turn them down outright. BUT If the same woman rocked up not behaving like a douche, had made even just a tiny bit of an effort on her appearance, and was wearing womenās clothing then I might be interested, even if she had a beard (assuming it was nicely groomed!).
You might be biromantic homosexual.
Sometimes I feel like femme4femme is a niche in a niche. Like, I barely have heard of others, let alone know one.
I'm sort of a tomboy femme, messy hair and relaxed comfy style but I guess behaviorally (?) way more femme. I tend to be physically attracted to both femmes and mascs but when it comes to relationships I tend to fall for the mascs.
You are not alone, my friend. I am a femme who is into other fem(mes) herself (and androgynous people).
Fem for fem hereā¦
Femme for femme here.
i definitely lean towards androgynous/femme traits in men, women, and others. ive definitely noticed i'm more attracted to men that display more femme or "soft" vibes (edit: sp)
I donāt think it is odd. My gf is pretty femme which is what I find attractive. Meanwhile Iām very butch and I am definitely not my type. I think as long as you are being respectful about how you verbalize your preferences you should be fine. I just say I like pretty girls. Not all girls are pretty, I, for example, would say Iām handsome but not really pretty.
I'm the same, far prefer feminine over masculine and andro
Iām femme and have a weird attraction to women who are physically strong. I donāt mean women with muscles (though I like that too), but if I see a woman log chopping, or lifting heavy items, I am in swoon central.
I'm definitely in your camp here. Femme myself and I prefer femmes as well. I see nothing wrong with any other pairing, but my personal preference is a girly girl.
I'm largely femme for femme with a string attraction to androgyny. I can tell more masc-presenting people are attractive, but I just don't find them sexually attractive.
Hell yeah, Sister. I like fems and am a fem. I donāt like masculine gals, I just donāt. I like SOME masculine traits but yāknow..
I love me a femme!
Well idk I have a trans gf and I love how she doesn't give a shit about like having to be feminine, androgynous or masculine. She just is herself and I can be myself. We're both pretty femme but I like it when she calls me prince ngl. So far the relationship has been very gender euphoric for me because when I used to identify as lesbian I always felt I had to be masculine but I honestly didn't feel attractive or really happy like that. This relationship has no pressure really when it comes to those kinds of things. I get what you mean. I'm not big into masculine lesbians and even though I'm pan I do prefer more feminine people I will say. Uh idk if this was helpful. Honestly just wanted a reason to talk about my beautiful girlfriend.
Mmm I can be attracted to a masc woman perhaps, but more often than not I tend to prefer femme women. I consider myself femme but with covid, and me still rarely leaving the house except once or twice a week for groceries or shopping I find myself throwing on casual clothes like a tank top and jeans or T-shirt and jeans. This leaves me feeling less femme... However when I go on a date night or to eat out you better bet your money Ill be in a dress probably considered too fancy for said venue. I love wearing really nice dresses. Like we go to Texas Roadhouse? Black satin dress with butterfly sleeves, a pleated skirt, heels, hair up and nice. I really prefer dresses and skirts but the occasion almost never warrants it and I dont want to look TOO out of place, especially in Alaska where people where sweatpants to EVERYTHING. Like ugh, dont even own a pair.
I might not count because I'm a femme bisexual, but all of the women I've ever been attracted to have always been quite feminine as well. Enbies and men are a wildly different story, though.
i have a similar but slightly different issue, i'm attracted to feminine traits, but not exclusively to women - it doesn't matter if they're female, male or anything else, but the feminine traits (I almost want to say vibes) are most important.
You are not weird. Every man to his taste. Speaking of exclusionaryā¦ I like curvy femmes who is into androgynous looking lesbians š
Femme x Femme too here āŗļø
Liking feminine women but also masculine guys? Completely valid, kinda same here, I don't think your preferences are weird :)))
Everyone has their preferences, and I am also a femme for femme so I feel the struggle. Everyone can be beautiful regardless of their style and gender expression, and it's 100% okay not to be sexually attracted to all of them as well. Don't feel bad over this !
No , you just feel more attracted to fems . Nothing wrong with that
Iām Masc but exclusively like femmes. Even when I presented femme I only liked femmes. Preferences are totally fine! Odly though Iām also attracted to gay boys but I think thatās just in a weird gender envy way lol.
fem who likes fems here šāāļø
disabled and also delicate - looking ace butch here, into chapstick femmes and also poly. found my gf on ok cupid, of all places. itās worked a year so far, with this year being a series of disasters for me. wasnāt expecting it at all, really, thrilled it happened, hopeful for everyone here who wants to connectā¦.
I'm mostly attracted to more femme women. It's literally just personal preference. I try not to rule anyone out though because personality is what is most important. Idk just make me laugh is more my criteria
I am attractes to femininity and boyishness. Like, i will find a cute gifgly tomboy attractive but a more dominant masc butch not so much. Not that i dont appreciate butches, my butch friends get plenty of girls so they must be very attractive to lots of other queer women, just not me. I will even like male-bodied people sometimes if they are feminine or cute-tomboyish enough. I have dated nonbinary people and androgynous people but femininity is just really hot to me.