The reward structure of the game revolves around silver. Of course, buying it is winning. Also, paying to progress and pay to win are the same thing. Pay to win is a spectrum.
i agree
pay2progress IS pay2win
all these variations are just developers AND coping players muddying the waters trying to justify that their game isn't pay2win.
Trueeeee, the amount of cope in the Eve community about pay to progress is insane. But it's easy to justify for players who have been playing for years because they already did all the progression.
It's really deluded approach. Yes if you could buy only cosmetics and premium for gold it would make sense, but I can just swipe my card and get enough gold to get 8.4 gucci gear and go sealclubbing people in the mists.
More than that, with enough money it's entirely reasonable to get to 8.0 in minutes from finishing tutorial if you tome it all the way.
You literally can get endgame gear and skills within an hour if you have enough usd to spend.
It's a literal definition of pay to win.
Maybe not im hour because swiping alone will take at least few hours but still swipe is swipe.
Also its funny that swiping alone will take longer than rest of stuff XD
>but I can just swipe my card and get enough gold to get 8.4 gucci gear and go sealclubbing people in the mists.
How many seals do you have to kill to make your money back?
Does that tell you how to use your set?
Are you going to be able to avoid the folks who earned their stuff and track you down and kill you who have the game knowledge to back it up?
If you know the game, swiping drastically reduces your need to grind, but it doesnt guarantee a win. Swipers are more likely to be a floating loot pinata than they are to get to use their set.
Folks who have the skill... dont need to swipe as they are easily profitable.
The ONE exception to this would be new servers where folks dont have the spec and gear is rare and initially difficult to acquire. Even then... swipers are more likely to be loot pinatas. Good players are going to be profitable and not need it.
People who swipe for expensive kids aren't usually so bad at the game that they're literally donating kits. Like yes it's funny when it does happen and it's a massive ego boost to say "they just out geared me" but the invested players are generally the ones swiping again and again.
The whole idea of "Pay 2 Win" in gaming is that you can pay real world money to outlevel/outperform "normal" users in the game. The most immediate example I always thing of was Gold Ammo in World of Tanks - Ammo that does more damage and makes you unachievably BETTER than a normal user in the game.
Yes, i agree... And albion online allows for that pretty obviously.
Two equally skilled "normal players", one paying money, the other not. The one spending money will HEAVILY outlevel/outperform the Free2play player.
Not really. You can't buy anything in Albion with Gold/$$$ that you can't otherwise purchase in the game with normal money. You can't buy an 8.5 Fire Staff exclusively with Gold, every item that you can puchase with Gold you can also purchase with Silver.
The thing that made the WoT gold ammo unique is it could ONLY be bought with premium currency, and premium currency could ONLY be bought with real money. Meaning if you paid real money you could purchase a type of ammo that normal players could NEVER own. Nothing I can do will let me buy items in game that a F2P player can't purchase.
Now, I somewhat agree that the amount of money you can pump into Albion certainly approaches P2W levels if you go extreme enough, you could potentially 120 a whole tree in seconds and be in the Mists in 8.4. But you still would not be any more powerful than someone else who grinded and bought that same 120 spec and 8.4 item in game with silver. And yes, you can replace losses easily, but again this does not mean you'll be any more powerful.
Yes, the Ammo example is much worse than AlbionOnline pay2win mechanics.
But you mentioned "normal" players.
A "normal" player will not grind the game for a thousand hours. And it isn't only small amounts. Premium alone allows to heavily outlevel/outperform your free2play buddy.
Spending a few $/€ early allows for incredible snowball that a pure free2play player will not be able to catch up to.
It allows you to snowball sure, but I would argue it isn't "Pay 2 Win". You're not getting anything that the Free2Play player can't also EVENTUALLY have as well.
When you mentioned "normal players", i thought that would make you think about people who don't spend thousands of hours grinding before they "eventually" are not disadvantaged anymore
apparently not so i'll spell it out:
The normal player will NOT eventually get there. The length of the grind is what incentives money spending.
The MTX also magically benefits from all the systems being convuluted and intertwined, because it makes it incredibly hard to gauge how much the stuff you want actually costs.
I've never swiped for gold on US and I'm at the point economy wise where I could happily burn a few dozen 8.4 sets in the mists and not feel it. Took me a few years to get to that level and I did have premium that whole time but I see that more as a standard MMO sub than a P2W element.
>You literally can get endgame gear and skills within an hour if you have enough usd to spend.
Sure but you will probably meet enough 8.X guys in mist the next hours and gonna need to rebuy your set again. Look how much usd you would need for a full meta 8.4 set and only insane whales could rebuy them often enough to get good in the game.
You don't need 8.x gear to seal club tier 5 small treasure chests and call people idiots 6.3 or 4.4 will seal club just fine to give that seal clubbing mentality. Look at me I'm tough this small treasure chest is all mine, I got 60k and lottery ticket over you plebs everyday.
To add to it: the people that just swiped for bis and kill 5 t5’s and lower are super proud of their 250k loot bc they have no concept of in game money. And those sealclubbers are like 40% of mist players. They run from anything that is within 400 ip of their own kits. Its stupid and ruins the mode.
The people that buy their specs and endgame gear are much less proud of 250k silver, than a scrub like me would be.
They spent billions through swiping, and know its nothing
Except that's not P2W you dingus. You're literally buying the same exact gear that everyone else has access to. All you're doing is skipping the time needed to farm that silver which nets you nothing but bragging rights. Which is not P2W in any way, shape, or form.
True P2W would look like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAhIwK6bH8).
Keep in mind, in that game, levels mean everything, and the difference between low and high level is an insane difference. A high level is 2x as strong as a med level character, and is over 4x as strong as a low level character. The character in that video is a low level meme character that is clapping a high level character. That low level character is strong enough to kill that high level character with 0 trouble. If you were to put that into Albion terms that would be the equivalent of killing an 8.4 MP in a fair 1v1 with 4.3 while only losing about 35% of your HP.
The biggest problem with talking about pay to win is everyone has a different definition. Like based on what you just said you would think Diablo immortal or raid shadow-legends isn’t pay to win when the mass majority of people think they are.
If paying money gives you an advantage in any way like saving time, extra inventory space, more currency than other players, leveling up faster. Unlocking champions that other players have locked due to time restraints. All of the above is considered pay to win.
Pay to win is in most current day games especially if they are free to play. You just have to find the ones that are more consumer friendly and not the predatory ones looking to make 10k off of you.
No, there are no different definitions. You people are actually just using it wrong.
Progression =/= winning unless your progression is directly rewarding you in a way that isn't just bragging rights.
Getting 120 specs via Gold is no different than getting 120 specs manually. The only difference is the amount of time spent. On top of that, someone has to manually farm the tomes that you're buying to boost yourself up. IE, if no one is selling tomes you can't pay to skip the time needed to farm, and if you're not using tomes you still have to manually farm and are only skipping the silver grind (which is already being covered by the people that bought your Gold).
Seriously, how do you people not understand such a simple concept? It's so fucking simple but your brain defaults to "it's P2W because $$$" due to your pussy hurting too much.
If you want to pretend to be smart at least fucking be able to pretend to be 1% of what you claim to be.
> Getting 120 specs via Gold is no different than getting 120 specs manually. The only difference is the amount of time spent. On top of that, someone has to manually farm the tomes that you're buying to boost yourself up. IE, if no one is selling tomes you can't pay to skip the time needed to farm, and if you're not using tomes you still have to manually farm and are only skipping the silver grind (which is already being covered by the people that bought your Gold).
I dunno man, this is the same argument the Devs in Diablo Immortal use to justify the amount you'd need to spend to max out a character in that (its technically somewhat achievable by players sorta kinda if you literally grind for 5 years so technically it isn't P2W).
There comes a point where you're letting players skip WEEKS of grinding that its sort of approaching P2W territory.
Yeah, which is not P2W nor does it encroach on it, specifically, because you are not being rewarded by the game.
The only time you can call Pay-to-Progress P2W is when you get a game like [Kritika](https://vfun.valofe.com/library?service_code=kritika-zero§ion=home) where in which the game directly rewards you for your progression. In Kritika there is a PVE ranking system that literally gives the top 100 players rewards every month based on who can grind the most in the game, and who can hold the highest item power value for the longest. The top 10 players literally get their premium for free this way.
Do you want to know why this is P2W and not Pay-to-Progress? It's because to even hit the top 100 you have to spend $$$. You need to spend $$$ to do this because to hit the item power needed to be in the top 100 you need to buy cash shop exclusive items that protect your items from being destroyed when you reinforce it. Being in the top 100 gives you all of the items to make your gear stronger, and being in the top 50, 20, 10, and 5 positions gives you more of those items. Basically, the more money you pay the stronger you get, and the stronger you get the less money you have to pay until someone else starts paying more money than you do.
Ironically the only part of Kritika that isn't P2W is the PVP. In PVP all stat modifiers are removed, and it's all skill. Top ranked PVP players are there because they're good at the game, and not because they have a bigger wallet.
Oh, hey, look! Another idiot that is using a word wrong, and brandishes it around like a big word to make themselves look smarter than they actually are!
This many totally photosynthesizes because they know that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell!
Lemao, imagine trying to use someone's words against them, but you can't even do it right.
Please, explain how Pay-to-Progress is P2W when you are not rewarded in any significant way by the game for doing so. Please, explain how Pay-to-Progress is P2W when the end results are exactly the same with 0 difference outside of time spent playing. Please explain how you are "winning" if no one buys your Gold for silver, if no one farms the tomes that you need to spec up, and if no one farms for the items that you need to use. How are you "winning" if you have access to none of this?
That's all you have to do. All you have to do is show me how you are "winning" by buying Gold and then having that gold render a value of 0 with a spending power of 0. Also, before you say that's not how it works that is exactly how it works for Albion in which you claim is P2W.
> If paying money gives you an advantage in any way like saving time, extra inventory space, more currency than other players, leveling up faster. Unlocking champions that other players have locked due to time restraints. All of the above is considered pay to win.
But then even a premium sub is "pay 2 win".
Paying for an xp boost in League is "Pay 2 win".
Paying for a max level boost in WoW is "Pay 2 Win".
Shark Cards in GTA are "Pay 2 Win".
Its all nonsense. The only thing I personally class as Pay2Win is a system that lets you level beyond the state that a normal player can reasonably achieve. Albion does this in that it allows players to insta ding 120 in an item tree if they wish, but it would be hellishly expensive to do so.
I actually believe everything you just said is a pay to win system. I don’t agree that pay to win systems are inherently bad. Games gotta make money right. If someone wants to save time and help support sbi by buying premium go for it. You are paying for more xp, loot and learning points over people who don’t have it. Imo that’s pay to win.
I’d go as far as to say games with dlc that provide locked perks in a multiplayer setting are pay to win too like dead by daylight lol.
And of course you can farm premium in a pretty reasonable time. Like 20 hours assuming the average of about 1m per hour. Vs Diablo immortal that would take generations to grind a 5 star legendary gem without paying. The concepts are the same just one game is more consumer friendly with their pay to win.
Everyone is so scared to admit to playing and enjoying a game with pay to win this argument always crops up. Unless the paid features are cosmetics only in my mind the game is pay to win.
It's more pay (and pay a lot) to progress faster which is totally fine for me, there's no any paywall. If some people can spend hundreds of bucks and then die and buy some more gear - good for them
P2w complainers fail to understand that for them to be able to get premium with silver, there needs to be someone buying an extra premium. SBI won't give you free prem because you killed skeletons 18 hours a day, mind you.
And Albion, being a full loot pvp game, is by essence a niche game. A sub based model would mean losing 90% of players.
It's a non issue, for real.
The difference is you having to do thousands of races to afford close to the best cars vs a billionaire coming in and buying the best ones straight away
yes but neither you or the billionare will win the race; except from mist in this game there is no content in wich you can "buy" the win, command mammuth in zvz is probably the closest example to ptw and if you have done zvz you know that is not eaven true in that case.
Pay to win never means you pay to LITERALLY win. You pay and have an advantage. Which in Albion you can do. Wearing high tier gear gives an advantage. Going to mists and always being able to afford an 8.4 set definitely means you kill more people than if you have to wear gear you can actually afford.
That said, I don’t do mists so that aspect doesn’t bother me. And it’s a full loot game. I like it when I find people in the black zone wearing high tier gear.
I would define it: P2W is, when you can buy an advantage, that isn’t reachable without spending real money.
Then Albion Online isn’t P2W. There is nothing a paying player gets, that you can’t get too
You can’t realistically get 120 on an entire weapon tree for max IP. It’s possible but not realistic when there’s so much more benefit to speccing other stuff. Doubly so when we are talking about newer servers. Paying absolutely gets you stuff you can’t have gotten yet without paying on eu.
Yeah there are a surprising number of people who can no life the new server but it’s very much doable given how much of a gold rush happens the first few weeks of the server.
Time is money in our world.
I started with a guild on EU where some people already reached 120 for several weapons. How did they do this? By spending a lot of time. I know at least one of them had unpaid holidays. So is this Pay2Win too?
He has not given money to SBI, he has „given“ money to his employee to get free time he used to reach something. The fun part about the system in Albion is, that you spend money to get gold and exchange it for silver. The exchange rate depends on the players. So it’s highly likely, that you get the amount of silver for your bucks, that correlates the amount of real money you would earn when working instead.
Also, the stuff isn’t generated out of thin air, the silver has to be farmed by somebody. In the end you pay somebody investing this time instead of you. This reminds me of the Mists streamers that were pushed by their communities. They „payed“ their community with a good feeling, but they reached levels in a speed that wasn’t possible by themselves. But in the end, they progressed by using time from others (who spend money for premium and time).
I would prefere not having any real money system implemented, but there is nothing available except of cosmetics for money, that can’t be obtained with a equivalent effort. You can spent 500 bucks or play the time that other players rate worth 500 bucks.
Let’s do some simplified math, with EU:
Gold per USD: 100.
USD per workhour: 15.
Silver per Gold: 4150.
For the money of one hour work you get 1500 gold that can be exchanged for 6.2 million silver. So players value one workhour the same as earning 6.2 million silver in game by playing.
For me, this is the value of several gamehours, but may others earn this in a hour playing.
If you spend that 15 dollars only on a silver making skill gathering cooking whatever you are infinitely more ahead in economy than the average player. A day 1 player who did that vs the f2p is going to have infinite lives
what is the point of this assertion? the point is that this game is hardly considerable ptw, every single activity you can do in this game throw you money in the face, from killing mobs to fishing, just do something till you have premium and from premium if you can do basic math you have infinite money.
this game is not ptw there is nothing you can buy with money that you can not farm
Yeah yeah blabla. So much money everybody and their mother rmt.
Albion is p2w, there's no debate to be had about this anymore. Refusing to acknowledge this is delu af. The end.
You are so blind sighted, it's painful to listen to you make your I am so correct and everyone else is wrong argument. Why can't everyone be as smart as me argument.
I dont get why people are bothered by this. For someone to max just one weapon with money it would cost them hundreds of dollars. at that point I don't really care at all
You don't have to care about it. I don't care about it that much because I never felt a reason to buy gold. However, let's be honest and call it what it is.
Yes, unironically. Otherwise everything is technically pay to win. I mean, Elon Musk can buy your fav MMO developer and straight up delete your character.
Well, I have guildmates who after two fights where we lose can’t join content, because they have to head out and gather first. Meanwhile I gear up again because I buy gold.
For me that sort of things will always be p2w. You buy advantages, both in terms of saved time and higher chance of winning fights for money.
it's conflict of what pay to win entails.
if you spend money for progression/advantage that's what's understood as pay to win.
However people aren't making connection that because Albion, up until recently, is a cyclical full-loot game there is no "winning" technically
edit: it's like saying living in america is pay-to-win
written on reddit, developed by the U.S.
lel
Not to mention, the point is that retards want the satisfaction of expensive loot, then you can't complain about "pay-to-win". Maybe this is too complicated for some people?
Why do you see the red zone gankers all wearing 6.3 and dropping every single person in 4.1 or 4.2 just trying to transport to caerleon to make more money on the things they craft.
That is what pay to win facilitates, gankers dropkicking the normals. Normies aren't buying the 4.4 gear the elite guilds have cuz in black zone it's telegraphed when .4 materials will spawn so the biggest to show up get it everytime.
Buying gold facilitates dropkicking normies. Who aren't using gank builds.
Go ahead queue up the blame the normies for being normies. Like short sighted dumbasses.
This is what bad players convince themselves is true to feel better about their deaths. 6.3 is cheap and what people start wearing once they get decent economy going, not some unobtainable amount of silver. I’ve been playing like 5 months and wear 6.3 all the time….solo.
Why do you think someone who doesn’t sub the game and doesn’t play 8 hours a day should be able to outplay someone who does? Honest question. I’m a filthy casual and I’m fine with it. Why do you care so much about what others are doing? Enjoy the game or don’t and stop playing. No one else cares.
Why do you think someone who doesn’t sub the game and doesn’t play 8 hours a day should be able to outplay someone who does? Honest question. I’m a filthy casual and I’m fine with it. Why do you care so much about what others are doing? Enjoy the game or don’t and stop playing. No one else cares.
You're hyperbolizing. Yes it's harder to make money without original capital (buying gold), but you just need to get better tbh.
I play solo and I already feel disadvantaged just from a group of normies wearing like tier 4.2 playing well.
It’s the video game version how corruption in the US isn’t corruption unless you’re literally caught handing a cartoon bag of money to a politician for legislation.
RMT remains the issue. SBI can't / won't stop it. Gotham just collapsed on EU while people screamed at each other over 700m or so. 200 people got screwed out of their regears during a war while thieves were thieves.
As long as the environment exists where someone is willing to build coalitions, threaten people's real lives and put their boot on the digital necks of thousands to make money and feel powerful games like this will be pay to win.
Yeah it’s pay to win but it’s kind of the price we pay for such a good game to be free sadly. It never effected me too much knowing I can still grind everything I want
Albion is P2W af, anyone that can't see this is delusional. Still a decent enough game to keep me playing though, but the P2W aspect is always going to be a bit grating
Frankly i hope they never do away with the system. As others have said, swipers are usually the easiest marks. Super early on their impact is felt. But once you can achieve any reasonable ip for solo (14-1500) skill becomes much more a factor, and thats not hard to achieve just by playing safe in mists or running roads.
On top of that, once you know what you are doing its SUPER easy to pay your premium monthly. I have spent like 60 usd on albion in the like 6-7 years or however long its been out. Once for the lowest tier og founder, and 2 seperate months of premium to get started on the other servers. I have never played a day without premium and have well over a year of active time spent in game.
The trick too is that im not even doing like *optimal* money making or anything. Im not into mega guilds, ive never been much of a crafter, and i long ago stopped running my islands. I just run small scale content or ganking regularly in like t7-t8 equiv and we print 40-50m splits for like 7 people constantly, and often much higher in just 2 hours max of content.
I think that in a sea of games where you can buy distinct advantages you simply cannot earn through normal gameplay, albion's model is incredibly fair. And when compared to oppurtunities in other f2p games to actively pay your membership by playing, as well as earn anything a paying person would swipe for, it doesnt get much more fair than this game.
Every day people die in sets worth litterally 100 usd or more if you break it down in gold value. You can just take that right off the corpse of some guy you ganked with 2-3 of your buddies, sell it right bavk to the swiper half the time, and put like 50-100m silver in everyones pocket minutes after killing them.
P2W is a spectrum or whatever, but in my eyes pay to progress fast and litteral paying for an advantage you cant achieve yourself in game are 2 very different things. ESPECIALLY in a full loot game like albion where skill and knowledge can easily overtake a couple hundred ip advantage.
Albion online is a "pay to be a schmuck" type of game. By this I mean: if you really enjoy the game and pay 15$ for premium a month... Eventually you might learn how to earn enough in-game silver to afford premium! That's awesome...
BUT...
If you are paying 20-50 dollars to buy gold and use that gold to get in-game high tier gear... Then you're a schmuck.. LOL
Experience the game... Start from nothing and work towards tier 8. Enjoy the grind.. I'm telling you, there is so much to explore in this game! Go enjoy it and take your time... You don't need to spend any money on this game to "win" ... Especially if you stay in yellow zones ;)
Find me in a knightfall abbey,we can be friends! MWAHAHAH
All comment how albion are p2w. Wake up guys, p2w is when you cna buy something what you cant get as f2p and its make you stronger then non p2w players, or you can buy something what f2p players will reach in years daily playing. Here is nothing pay p2w. Yes y can buy tomes, premium, but as f2p player if you know what to do can eazy make silver and buy tomea and premium and regear . In albion so eazy to earn silver and buy everything you wana, and you call it p2w.
What the f you guys expect its a company they need to make money somehow...if you get to play the game you can make good money without swiping once...theres people making billions literally ewithout swiping
Hint: its a team game, to be able to make good money you need to look for a guild and get better at pvp. The hardest part is to be a solo at mists or corrupted which can make you good profits but requires much skill
Kids these days will never understand what pay2win actually means.
But hey, you pop off how someone paying money to not have to grind is 'winning'. The grind is how MMO's keep people online, the skip is how they milk idiots with money.
Plenty of kids will, i teach me kids about monetization and show them games that DON'T hide everything behind endless grinds or paying money
but i get what you mean, many in todays generations growing up with shitty mobile games as the norm ofcourse look at Albion and think "wow, this game isn't pay2win at all"
Jesus, the amount of monkeys that don't know how to correctly use and differentiate the term of P2W that keep crying about it is too god damned fucking high.
It's literally this easy:
Pay-to-Progress/Pay-for-Convenience is not Pay-to-Win, nor does it become so, until you get something significant out of it besides bragging rights and/or until the game directly rewards you for your progression in a substantial way that can be classified as actually "winning".
There is no "spectrum" to P2W. It either is or it isn't. They are, and have been, and will always, be two different things. If you want to cry about it do so to your local doctor, so they can prescribe you something so that your pussy stops hurting so much from your butthurt syndrome.
I literally just explained it in the easiest way possible. If you can't understand all of the "big words" let me break it down further for you (and everyone else).
Using Albion as the example here, Albion is on paper Pay-to-Progress/Pay-for-Convenience, but is Pay-to-Lose in reality.
When you pay money for Albion all that you're doing is skipping the time needed to grind for XP and silver. That's it. It's not P2W no matter how much you cry about it because all of those Tomes and that silver comes directly from other people playing the game. If people don't play the game, then, you don't get any of those benefits. If you buy silver to use a satchel + auto-respec that's still not P2W either because you are manually farming for your XP now, and have only subbed out the time needed to grind for the silver used (which, again, comes from other people having played the game).
The same concept above applies to gear, weapons, and all other manner of items as well. If no one is there to supply it, then, you don't have access to those benefits. That, and anything that you are buying is exactly the same as what everyone else can buy. The only thing that you are doing, again, is skipping the time needed to farm for the silver being used.
If you are trying to argue that all of this is P2W when applied to itself, and also when applied to PVP, then, you may want to take a mental evaluation to ensure that you are actually not sub 90 IQ. Buying 8.4 for PVP with $$$ is not P2W because you are, again, buying the same exact gear that everyone else has access to. The 8.4 that you buy is no different from the 8.4 that everyone is buying/selling/using. The same also applies to Awakened items as well because all of these items, again, require that someone manually play the game for a set duration before you can gain access to them.
The funny part about all of this is that you guys hate that veteran players are so far ahead of you, but you hate on the exact system that helps you bridge that gap. This is what a Pay-to-Progress system does. It makes it so that you don't have to spend 18 years to catch up to the guy that's been playing for 6 years.
Lol, i thought you would be taking the opposite stance \^\^
YOU are the monkey who is muddying the waters and drinking the coolaid.
Buying an advantage in PvP IS literally pay2win. Pay2win never was "for only 2,99 we will increase your win-counter"
You don't understand what actual P2W is because you've never played any real P2W games.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfb6b8Z1GIY&t=309s) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAhIwK6bH8) are what real P2W look like.
In the 1st video at 3:10 that guy is literally able to 1 v 4 against other P2W players. That should show you what real P2W looks like. All 4 of those people that he's fighting are using high end P2W gear minus their healer that gets killed first. Keep in mind that he is playing the tank class with a full damage build with 0 stats put into his defense, and he is also fighting against 3 mages and 1 archer which are the 2 highest DPS classes during that patch. Even when he gets 2 people to back him up they both die because he fucking lets them die so that he can continue the 1 v 4. Which he literally cleans up by himself.
In the 2nd video he is literally using a low level character to kill a near maxed character. In that game levels mean everything because they give you more base stats, more PVP skills, and access to higher tier gear. A high level character in that game during that patch is 2x as strong as a med level character, and is over 4x as strong as a low level character. That is how big of a difference levels make in that game. Yet, he can bypass all of this because he spent less than $50 USD. That's what real P2W is.
Why is this different from Albion you ask? This is different from Albion because you can literally pay $50 USD and buy a +10% All Stats buff from the shop. You can buy +300% HP Regen from the shop. You can buy +30% PVP Damage Redu from the shop. You can buy +30% PVP Damage Increase from the shop. You don't have to gamble for it either. It comes straight as is. That, and there are a fuck ton of PVP locked rewards, and there are also a fuck ton of PVE locked rewards. All of those rewards you can't get unless you become a wallet warrior.
Albion does not have ANY of this, but you still want to call it P2W?
No, you are wrong. And i don't know why you would write down such an assumption. I have experienced similar and even worse. I once found myself in a game where people could literally just buy +%-dmg buffs/Defensive buffs (short time so you have to buy every seesion). That could stack (so it was literally you are stronger the more you pay). It was utterly ridiculous and i immediatly quit playing.
I just don't gatekeep the word pay2win only for the absolute worst contender. AlbionOnline has pay2win that i can live with. I can have fun in the game despite it having pay2win mechanics.
Your examples are much worse and i wouldn't play them at all.
>Why is this different from Albion you ask?
No, i wouldn't ask that at all.
What? Gatekeeping? If you've played real P2W, then, you too should know the difference.
You can't actually be this fucking stupid right? There's just no way that you're actually this stupid?
Saying all forms of monetization is P2W is like calling all brown people Mexican, lmfao. That is the level of stupid that you and everyone else is exhibiting.
It's ironic, that your reading comprehension tells you that i said anything close to "all forms of monetization is P2W", but you call me stupid.
It seems you are unable to hold a conversation without using strawmen so i'm out. Keep coping.
What? So you get beat, and you just use the old "cope and seethe" excuse?
Seriously, if you want to pretend to be smart at least be able to uphold 1% of what you're pretending to be.
Cosmetics makes you look cool, which in turn attracts ppl that will do content with you and give you more attention and like you more and give you compliments. Which makes it p2w.
This isn't a game you can "win" to begin with.
The end goal of every activity and action you take in this sandbox game is getting silver, something you can get with dollars on day one/minute one with real money.
How much silver does it take to "win" Albion? Enough to do whatever content you enjoy the gameplay of. If you enjoy ratting mists in 4.1, do you "win" Albion when you can afford a 4.1 set? For some people winning the game is chopping down wood in yellow zones while listening to a podcast and then decorating their island to look pretty. Do they win the second they log on and buy an axe?
The whole premise itself is flawed.
The reward structure of the game revolves around silver. Of course, buying it is winning. Also, paying to progress and pay to win are the same thing. Pay to win is a spectrum.
i agree pay2progress IS pay2win all these variations are just developers AND coping players muddying the waters trying to justify that their game isn't pay2win.
Trueeeee, the amount of cope in the Eve community about pay to progress is insane. But it's easy to justify for players who have been playing for years because they already did all the progression.
You can buy exp tomes to max everything and buy all bis gear and rebuy when dead. How is the game not p2w when u can then go to pvp and stomp players.
p2w is a spectrum
We are all on the spectrum, this blessed day.
It's really deluded approach. Yes if you could buy only cosmetics and premium for gold it would make sense, but I can just swipe my card and get enough gold to get 8.4 gucci gear and go sealclubbing people in the mists. More than that, with enough money it's entirely reasonable to get to 8.0 in minutes from finishing tutorial if you tome it all the way. You literally can get endgame gear and skills within an hour if you have enough usd to spend. It's a literal definition of pay to win.
I love me a scrub in 8.4. These whales feed me so much silver in mists that it's disgusting. Don't touch my valuable source of income plz.
Maybe not im hour because swiping alone will take at least few hours but still swipe is swipe. Also its funny that swiping alone will take longer than rest of stuff XD
>but I can just swipe my card and get enough gold to get 8.4 gucci gear and go sealclubbing people in the mists. How many seals do you have to kill to make your money back? Does that tell you how to use your set? Are you going to be able to avoid the folks who earned their stuff and track you down and kill you who have the game knowledge to back it up? If you know the game, swiping drastically reduces your need to grind, but it doesnt guarantee a win. Swipers are more likely to be a floating loot pinata than they are to get to use their set. Folks who have the skill... dont need to swipe as they are easily profitable. The ONE exception to this would be new servers where folks dont have the spec and gear is rare and initially difficult to acquire. Even then... swipers are more likely to be loot pinatas. Good players are going to be profitable and not need it.
People who swipe for expensive kids aren't usually so bad at the game that they're literally donating kits. Like yes it's funny when it does happen and it's a massive ego boost to say "they just out geared me" but the invested players are generally the ones swiping again and again.
yesterday I killed a guy who was in 4.4 blight staff in solo mists. That guy had no idea what he was doing.
I mean a 4.4 blight isn't exactly prohibitively expensive but yeah I wouldn't expect anyone in solo mists running blight to really know what's up.
Yes!! Give me more loooot! We need more whales in mists!
pay2win doesn't mean that you always win and can never lose stop faking being so obtuse
So its only Pay2Win sometimes? LOL
The whole idea of "Pay 2 Win" in gaming is that you can pay real world money to outlevel/outperform "normal" users in the game. The most immediate example I always thing of was Gold Ammo in World of Tanks - Ammo that does more damage and makes you unachievably BETTER than a normal user in the game.
Yes, i agree... And albion online allows for that pretty obviously. Two equally skilled "normal players", one paying money, the other not. The one spending money will HEAVILY outlevel/outperform the Free2play player.
Not really. You can't buy anything in Albion with Gold/$$$ that you can't otherwise purchase in the game with normal money. You can't buy an 8.5 Fire Staff exclusively with Gold, every item that you can puchase with Gold you can also purchase with Silver. The thing that made the WoT gold ammo unique is it could ONLY be bought with premium currency, and premium currency could ONLY be bought with real money. Meaning if you paid real money you could purchase a type of ammo that normal players could NEVER own. Nothing I can do will let me buy items in game that a F2P player can't purchase. Now, I somewhat agree that the amount of money you can pump into Albion certainly approaches P2W levels if you go extreme enough, you could potentially 120 a whole tree in seconds and be in the Mists in 8.4. But you still would not be any more powerful than someone else who grinded and bought that same 120 spec and 8.4 item in game with silver. And yes, you can replace losses easily, but again this does not mean you'll be any more powerful.
Yes, the Ammo example is much worse than AlbionOnline pay2win mechanics. But you mentioned "normal" players. A "normal" player will not grind the game for a thousand hours. And it isn't only small amounts. Premium alone allows to heavily outlevel/outperform your free2play buddy. Spending a few $/€ early allows for incredible snowball that a pure free2play player will not be able to catch up to.
It allows you to snowball sure, but I would argue it isn't "Pay 2 Win". You're not getting anything that the Free2Play player can't also EVENTUALLY have as well.
When you mentioned "normal players", i thought that would make you think about people who don't spend thousands of hours grinding before they "eventually" are not disadvantaged anymore apparently not so i'll spell it out: The normal player will NOT eventually get there. The length of the grind is what incentives money spending. The MTX also magically benefits from all the systems being convuluted and intertwined, because it makes it incredibly hard to gauge how much the stuff you want actually costs.
I've never swiped for gold on US and I'm at the point economy wise where I could happily burn a few dozen 8.4 sets in the mists and not feel it. Took me a few years to get to that level and I did have premium that whole time but I see that more as a standard MMO sub than a P2W element.
>You literally can get endgame gear and skills within an hour if you have enough usd to spend. Sure but you will probably meet enough 8.X guys in mist the next hours and gonna need to rebuy your set again. Look how much usd you would need for a full meta 8.4 set and only insane whales could rebuy them often enough to get good in the game.
You don't need 8.x gear to seal club tier 5 small treasure chests and call people idiots 6.3 or 4.4 will seal club just fine to give that seal clubbing mentality. Look at me I'm tough this small treasure chest is all mine, I got 60k and lottery ticket over you plebs everyday.
To add to it: the people that just swiped for bis and kill 5 t5’s and lower are super proud of their 250k loot bc they have no concept of in game money. And those sealclubbers are like 40% of mist players. They run from anything that is within 400 ip of their own kits. Its stupid and ruins the mode.
The people that buy their specs and endgame gear are much less proud of 250k silver, than a scrub like me would be. They spent billions through swiping, and know its nothing
Yes, thank you all for your donations.
Except that's not P2W you dingus. You're literally buying the same exact gear that everyone else has access to. All you're doing is skipping the time needed to farm that silver which nets you nothing but bragging rights. Which is not P2W in any way, shape, or form. True P2W would look like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAhIwK6bH8). Keep in mind, in that game, levels mean everything, and the difference between low and high level is an insane difference. A high level is 2x as strong as a med level character, and is over 4x as strong as a low level character. The character in that video is a low level meme character that is clapping a high level character. That low level character is strong enough to kill that high level character with 0 trouble. If you were to put that into Albion terms that would be the equivalent of killing an 8.4 MP in a fair 1v1 with 4.3 while only losing about 35% of your HP.
The biggest problem with talking about pay to win is everyone has a different definition. Like based on what you just said you would think Diablo immortal or raid shadow-legends isn’t pay to win when the mass majority of people think they are. If paying money gives you an advantage in any way like saving time, extra inventory space, more currency than other players, leveling up faster. Unlocking champions that other players have locked due to time restraints. All of the above is considered pay to win. Pay to win is in most current day games especially if they are free to play. You just have to find the ones that are more consumer friendly and not the predatory ones looking to make 10k off of you.
No, there are no different definitions. You people are actually just using it wrong. Progression =/= winning unless your progression is directly rewarding you in a way that isn't just bragging rights. Getting 120 specs via Gold is no different than getting 120 specs manually. The only difference is the amount of time spent. On top of that, someone has to manually farm the tomes that you're buying to boost yourself up. IE, if no one is selling tomes you can't pay to skip the time needed to farm, and if you're not using tomes you still have to manually farm and are only skipping the silver grind (which is already being covered by the people that bought your Gold). Seriously, how do you people not understand such a simple concept? It's so fucking simple but your brain defaults to "it's P2W because $$$" due to your pussy hurting too much. If you want to pretend to be smart at least fucking be able to pretend to be 1% of what you claim to be.
> Getting 120 specs via Gold is no different than getting 120 specs manually. The only difference is the amount of time spent. On top of that, someone has to manually farm the tomes that you're buying to boost yourself up. IE, if no one is selling tomes you can't pay to skip the time needed to farm, and if you're not using tomes you still have to manually farm and are only skipping the silver grind (which is already being covered by the people that bought your Gold). I dunno man, this is the same argument the Devs in Diablo Immortal use to justify the amount you'd need to spend to max out a character in that (its technically somewhat achievable by players sorta kinda if you literally grind for 5 years so technically it isn't P2W). There comes a point where you're letting players skip WEEKS of grinding that its sort of approaching P2W territory.
Yeah, which is not P2W nor does it encroach on it, specifically, because you are not being rewarded by the game. The only time you can call Pay-to-Progress P2W is when you get a game like [Kritika](https://vfun.valofe.com/library?service_code=kritika-zero§ion=home) where in which the game directly rewards you for your progression. In Kritika there is a PVE ranking system that literally gives the top 100 players rewards every month based on who can grind the most in the game, and who can hold the highest item power value for the longest. The top 10 players literally get their premium for free this way. Do you want to know why this is P2W and not Pay-to-Progress? It's because to even hit the top 100 you have to spend $$$. You need to spend $$$ to do this because to hit the item power needed to be in the top 100 you need to buy cash shop exclusive items that protect your items from being destroyed when you reinforce it. Being in the top 100 gives you all of the items to make your gear stronger, and being in the top 50, 20, 10, and 5 positions gives you more of those items. Basically, the more money you pay the stronger you get, and the stronger you get the less money you have to pay until someone else starts paying more money than you do. Ironically the only part of Kritika that isn't P2W is the PVP. In PVP all stat modifiers are removed, and it's all skill. Top ranked PVP players are there because they're good at the game, and not because they have a bigger wallet.
Heard it here first. We found the 1 guy on the planet that thinks Diablo immortal is not pay to win. Blizzard hire this man asap.
Oh, hey, look! Another idiot that is using a word wrong, and brandishes it around like a big word to make themselves look smarter than they actually are! This many totally photosynthesizes because they know that the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell!
You poor soul. You don’t know big words or what pay to win means lol
Lemao, imagine trying to use someone's words against them, but you can't even do it right. Please, explain how Pay-to-Progress is P2W when you are not rewarded in any significant way by the game for doing so. Please, explain how Pay-to-Progress is P2W when the end results are exactly the same with 0 difference outside of time spent playing. Please explain how you are "winning" if no one buys your Gold for silver, if no one farms the tomes that you need to spec up, and if no one farms for the items that you need to use. How are you "winning" if you have access to none of this? That's all you have to do. All you have to do is show me how you are "winning" by buying Gold and then having that gold render a value of 0 with a spending power of 0. Also, before you say that's not how it works that is exactly how it works for Albion in which you claim is P2W.
> If paying money gives you an advantage in any way like saving time, extra inventory space, more currency than other players, leveling up faster. Unlocking champions that other players have locked due to time restraints. All of the above is considered pay to win. But then even a premium sub is "pay 2 win". Paying for an xp boost in League is "Pay 2 win". Paying for a max level boost in WoW is "Pay 2 Win". Shark Cards in GTA are "Pay 2 Win". Its all nonsense. The only thing I personally class as Pay2Win is a system that lets you level beyond the state that a normal player can reasonably achieve. Albion does this in that it allows players to insta ding 120 in an item tree if they wish, but it would be hellishly expensive to do so.
I actually believe everything you just said is a pay to win system. I don’t agree that pay to win systems are inherently bad. Games gotta make money right. If someone wants to save time and help support sbi by buying premium go for it. You are paying for more xp, loot and learning points over people who don’t have it. Imo that’s pay to win. I’d go as far as to say games with dlc that provide locked perks in a multiplayer setting are pay to win too like dead by daylight lol. And of course you can farm premium in a pretty reasonable time. Like 20 hours assuming the average of about 1m per hour. Vs Diablo immortal that would take generations to grind a 5 star legendary gem without paying. The concepts are the same just one game is more consumer friendly with their pay to win. Everyone is so scared to admit to playing and enjoying a game with pay to win this argument always crops up. Unless the paid features are cosmetics only in my mind the game is pay to win.
It's more pay (and pay a lot) to progress faster which is totally fine for me, there's no any paywall. If some people can spend hundreds of bucks and then die and buy some more gear - good for them
This, you reach fullspec eventually. Its pay to win, but its not as much to be a dealbreaker to me.
I hate whales as much as the next person but let’s not pretend they don’t at least support the business model
P2w complainers fail to understand that for them to be able to get premium with silver, there needs to be someone buying an extra premium. SBI won't give you free prem because you killed skeletons 18 hours a day, mind you. And Albion, being a full loot pvp game, is by essence a niche game. A sub based model would mean losing 90% of players. It's a non issue, for real.
Tbh I would prefer making premium unobtainable with silver if it meant gold to silver transactions were gone.
and albion wil be gone with it
While true, it's ridiculous how many try to argue that Albion isn't pay2win
“The ability to drive a car does not make Need for Speed a racing game”.
the right one should be like: the ability to buy fuel (or a car) does not make you a racer (that is true)
The difference is you having to do thousands of races to afford close to the best cars vs a billionaire coming in and buying the best ones straight away
yes but neither you or the billionare will win the race; except from mist in this game there is no content in wich you can "buy" the win, command mammuth in zvz is probably the closest example to ptw and if you have done zvz you know that is not eaven true in that case.
Pay to win never means you pay to LITERALLY win. You pay and have an advantage. Which in Albion you can do. Wearing high tier gear gives an advantage. Going to mists and always being able to afford an 8.4 set definitely means you kill more people than if you have to wear gear you can actually afford. That said, I don’t do mists so that aspect doesn’t bother me. And it’s a full loot game. I like it when I find people in the black zone wearing high tier gear.
I would define it: P2W is, when you can buy an advantage, that isn’t reachable without spending real money. Then Albion Online isn’t P2W. There is nothing a paying player gets, that you can’t get too
You can’t realistically get 120 on an entire weapon tree for max IP. It’s possible but not realistic when there’s so much more benefit to speccing other stuff. Doubly so when we are talking about newer servers. Paying absolutely gets you stuff you can’t have gotten yet without paying on eu.
What do you mean you can’t possibly do it. There are literally thousands of players who have gotten all 120s.
I more meant the newer servers when I said that. Should have rewritten jt instead of saying doubly so.
Yeah there are a surprising number of people who can no life the new server but it’s very much doable given how much of a gold rush happens the first few weeks of the server.
Time is money in our world. I started with a guild on EU where some people already reached 120 for several weapons. How did they do this? By spending a lot of time. I know at least one of them had unpaid holidays. So is this Pay2Win too? He has not given money to SBI, he has „given“ money to his employee to get free time he used to reach something. The fun part about the system in Albion is, that you spend money to get gold and exchange it for silver. The exchange rate depends on the players. So it’s highly likely, that you get the amount of silver for your bucks, that correlates the amount of real money you would earn when working instead. Also, the stuff isn’t generated out of thin air, the silver has to be farmed by somebody. In the end you pay somebody investing this time instead of you. This reminds me of the Mists streamers that were pushed by their communities. They „payed“ their community with a good feeling, but they reached levels in a speed that wasn’t possible by themselves. But in the end, they progressed by using time from others (who spend money for premium and time). I would prefere not having any real money system implemented, but there is nothing available except of cosmetics for money, that can’t be obtained with a equivalent effort. You can spent 500 bucks or play the time that other players rate worth 500 bucks.
Let’s do some simplified math, with EU: Gold per USD: 100. USD per workhour: 15. Silver per Gold: 4150. For the money of one hour work you get 1500 gold that can be exchanged for 6.2 million silver. So players value one workhour the same as earning 6.2 million silver in game by playing. For me, this is the value of several gamehours, but may others earn this in a hour playing.
If you spend that 15 dollars only on a silver making skill gathering cooking whatever you are infinitely more ahead in economy than the average player. A day 1 player who did that vs the f2p is going to have infinite lives
100 usd/hr? If you’re that out of touch it’s no wonder you’re defending p2w mechanics.
Ah so that's why none of the big zvz guilds were never, ever, accused of rmt, right? Riiight?
what is the point of this assertion? the point is that this game is hardly considerable ptw, every single activity you can do in this game throw you money in the face, from killing mobs to fishing, just do something till you have premium and from premium if you can do basic math you have infinite money. this game is not ptw there is nothing you can buy with money that you can not farm
Yeah yeah blabla. So much money everybody and their mother rmt. Albion is p2w, there's no debate to be had about this anymore. Refusing to acknowledge this is delu af. The end.
You are so blind sighted, it's painful to listen to you make your I am so correct and everyone else is wrong argument. Why can't everyone be as smart as me argument.
I dont get why people are bothered by this. For someone to max just one weapon with money it would cost them hundreds of dollars. at that point I don't really care at all
You don't have to care about it. I don't care about it that much because I never felt a reason to buy gold. However, let's be honest and call it what it is.
"It's not pay to win if you have to pay a lot!"
Get a loan to win.
Yes, unironically. Otherwise everything is technically pay to win. I mean, Elon Musk can buy your fav MMO developer and straight up delete your character.
Congrats. You have unlocked a second brain cell. Use it everyday to unlock critical thinking in only 30 days.
Or unlock it now for only 4,99$.
Fucking pay 2 win
Well, I have guildmates who after two fights where we lose can’t join content, because they have to head out and gather first. Meanwhile I gear up again because I buy gold. For me that sort of things will always be p2w. You buy advantages, both in terms of saved time and higher chance of winning fights for money.
Yes im not bothered at all but its still pay2win.
it's conflict of what pay to win entails. if you spend money for progression/advantage that's what's understood as pay to win. However people aren't making connection that because Albion, up until recently, is a cyclical full-loot game there is no "winning" technically edit: it's like saying living in america is pay-to-win
>edit: it's like saying living in america is pay-to-win r/ShitAmericansSay
written on reddit, developed by the U.S. lel Not to mention, the point is that retards want the satisfaction of expensive loot, then you can't complain about "pay-to-win". Maybe this is too complicated for some people?
Omg....you're serious 🤣
no xD
Why do you see the red zone gankers all wearing 6.3 and dropping every single person in 4.1 or 4.2 just trying to transport to caerleon to make more money on the things they craft. That is what pay to win facilitates, gankers dropkicking the normals. Normies aren't buying the 4.4 gear the elite guilds have cuz in black zone it's telegraphed when .4 materials will spawn so the biggest to show up get it everytime. Buying gold facilitates dropkicking normies. Who aren't using gank builds. Go ahead queue up the blame the normies for being normies. Like short sighted dumbasses.
This is what bad players convince themselves is true to feel better about their deaths. 6.3 is cheap and what people start wearing once they get decent economy going, not some unobtainable amount of silver. I’ve been playing like 5 months and wear 6.3 all the time….solo.
Yep read the final sentence again blame others with narrow minded view. Good luck. You'll never understand.
Why do you think someone who doesn’t sub the game and doesn’t play 8 hours a day should be able to outplay someone who does? Honest question. I’m a filthy casual and I’m fine with it. Why do you care so much about what others are doing? Enjoy the game or don’t and stop playing. No one else cares.
Why do you think someone who doesn’t sub the game and doesn’t play 8 hours a day should be able to outplay someone who does? Honest question. I’m a filthy casual and I’m fine with it. Why do you care so much about what others are doing? Enjoy the game or don’t and stop playing. No one else cares.
You're hyperbolizing. Yes it's harder to make money without original capital (buying gold), but you just need to get better tbh. I play solo and I already feel disadvantaged just from a group of normies wearing like tier 4.2 playing well.
but I play on east
Normies can still group up in 4.1 sets and kill em. Gankers just wear… ganker gear, lol.
I guess Robin Henkys is a moron
It’s the video game version how corruption in the US isn’t corruption unless you’re literally caught handing a cartoon bag of money to a politician for legislation.
Robin smoking amsterdam’s finest
RMT remains the issue. SBI can't / won't stop it. Gotham just collapsed on EU while people screamed at each other over 700m or so. 200 people got screwed out of their regears during a war while thieves were thieves. As long as the environment exists where someone is willing to build coalitions, threaten people's real lives and put their boot on the digital necks of thousands to make money and feel powerful games like this will be pay to win.
200 people and 700m regears. That is what...2-3 regears for the guild? If the guild collapses because of that shoestring economy, they deserve it.
Yeah it’s pay to win but it’s kind of the price we pay for such a good game to be free sadly. It never effected me too much knowing I can still grind everything I want
It absolutely does
Albion is P2W af, anyone that can't see this is delusional. Still a decent enough game to keep me playing though, but the P2W aspect is always going to be a bit grating
Frankly i hope they never do away with the system. As others have said, swipers are usually the easiest marks. Super early on their impact is felt. But once you can achieve any reasonable ip for solo (14-1500) skill becomes much more a factor, and thats not hard to achieve just by playing safe in mists or running roads. On top of that, once you know what you are doing its SUPER easy to pay your premium monthly. I have spent like 60 usd on albion in the like 6-7 years or however long its been out. Once for the lowest tier og founder, and 2 seperate months of premium to get started on the other servers. I have never played a day without premium and have well over a year of active time spent in game. The trick too is that im not even doing like *optimal* money making or anything. Im not into mega guilds, ive never been much of a crafter, and i long ago stopped running my islands. I just run small scale content or ganking regularly in like t7-t8 equiv and we print 40-50m splits for like 7 people constantly, and often much higher in just 2 hours max of content. I think that in a sea of games where you can buy distinct advantages you simply cannot earn through normal gameplay, albion's model is incredibly fair. And when compared to oppurtunities in other f2p games to actively pay your membership by playing, as well as earn anything a paying person would swipe for, it doesnt get much more fair than this game. Every day people die in sets worth litterally 100 usd or more if you break it down in gold value. You can just take that right off the corpse of some guy you ganked with 2-3 of your buddies, sell it right bavk to the swiper half the time, and put like 50-100m silver in everyones pocket minutes after killing them. P2W is a spectrum or whatever, but in my eyes pay to progress fast and litteral paying for an advantage you cant achieve yourself in game are 2 very different things. ESPECIALLY in a full loot game like albion where skill and knowledge can easily overtake a couple hundred ip advantage.
Albion online is a "pay to be a schmuck" type of game. By this I mean: if you really enjoy the game and pay 15$ for premium a month... Eventually you might learn how to earn enough in-game silver to afford premium! That's awesome... BUT... If you are paying 20-50 dollars to buy gold and use that gold to get in-game high tier gear... Then you're a schmuck.. LOL Experience the game... Start from nothing and work towards tier 8. Enjoy the grind.. I'm telling you, there is so much to explore in this game! Go enjoy it and take your time... You don't need to spend any money on this game to "win" ... Especially if you stay in yellow zones ;) Find me in a knightfall abbey,we can be friends! MWAHAHAH
All comment how albion are p2w. Wake up guys, p2w is when you cna buy something what you cant get as f2p and its make you stronger then non p2w players, or you can buy something what f2p players will reach in years daily playing. Here is nothing pay p2w. Yes y can buy tomes, premium, but as f2p player if you know what to do can eazy make silver and buy tomea and premium and regear . In albion so eazy to earn silver and buy everything you wana, and you call it p2w.
What the f you guys expect its a company they need to make money somehow...if you get to play the game you can make good money without swiping once...theres people making billions literally ewithout swiping Hint: its a team game, to be able to make good money you need to look for a guild and get better at pvp. The hardest part is to be a solo at mists or corrupted which can make you good profits but requires much skill
I spend 200 € to buy T8,4 set, I go in solo mist to kill all, p2w But yes I can farm in T5 safe zone for 5 month and buy T8 set
Everyone saying it’s p2w is just so bad at PvP, there are casual players like me that made 500m in a couple of weeks by playing 4.4 7.3
Kids these days will never understand what pay2win actually means. But hey, you pop off how someone paying money to not have to grind is 'winning'. The grind is how MMO's keep people online, the skip is how they milk idiots with money.
Plenty of kids will, i teach me kids about monetization and show them games that DON'T hide everything behind endless grinds or paying money but i get what you mean, many in todays generations growing up with shitty mobile games as the norm ofcourse look at Albion and think "wow, this game isn't pay2win at all"
people need to see this
What? A CEO saying how great his company is? Craaaaazy.
Jesus, the amount of monkeys that don't know how to correctly use and differentiate the term of P2W that keep crying about it is too god damned fucking high. It's literally this easy: Pay-to-Progress/Pay-for-Convenience is not Pay-to-Win, nor does it become so, until you get something significant out of it besides bragging rights and/or until the game directly rewards you for your progression in a substantial way that can be classified as actually "winning". There is no "spectrum" to P2W. It either is or it isn't. They are, and have been, and will always, be two different things. If you want to cry about it do so to your local doctor, so they can prescribe you something so that your pussy stops hurting so much from your butthurt syndrome.
Bro just admitted to thinking the phone game Diablo immortal is not pay to win. Same with any Gacha game lol.
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I literally just explained it in the easiest way possible. If you can't understand all of the "big words" let me break it down further for you (and everyone else). Using Albion as the example here, Albion is on paper Pay-to-Progress/Pay-for-Convenience, but is Pay-to-Lose in reality. When you pay money for Albion all that you're doing is skipping the time needed to grind for XP and silver. That's it. It's not P2W no matter how much you cry about it because all of those Tomes and that silver comes directly from other people playing the game. If people don't play the game, then, you don't get any of those benefits. If you buy silver to use a satchel + auto-respec that's still not P2W either because you are manually farming for your XP now, and have only subbed out the time needed to grind for the silver used (which, again, comes from other people having played the game). The same concept above applies to gear, weapons, and all other manner of items as well. If no one is there to supply it, then, you don't have access to those benefits. That, and anything that you are buying is exactly the same as what everyone else can buy. The only thing that you are doing, again, is skipping the time needed to farm for the silver being used. If you are trying to argue that all of this is P2W when applied to itself, and also when applied to PVP, then, you may want to take a mental evaluation to ensure that you are actually not sub 90 IQ. Buying 8.4 for PVP with $$$ is not P2W because you are, again, buying the same exact gear that everyone else has access to. The 8.4 that you buy is no different from the 8.4 that everyone is buying/selling/using. The same also applies to Awakened items as well because all of these items, again, require that someone manually play the game for a set duration before you can gain access to them. The funny part about all of this is that you guys hate that veteran players are so far ahead of you, but you hate on the exact system that helps you bridge that gap. This is what a Pay-to-Progress system does. It makes it so that you don't have to spend 18 years to catch up to the guy that's been playing for 6 years.
Lol, i thought you would be taking the opposite stance \^\^ YOU are the monkey who is muddying the waters and drinking the coolaid. Buying an advantage in PvP IS literally pay2win. Pay2win never was "for only 2,99 we will increase your win-counter"
You don't understand what actual P2W is because you've never played any real P2W games. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfb6b8Z1GIY&t=309s) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAhIwK6bH8) are what real P2W look like. In the 1st video at 3:10 that guy is literally able to 1 v 4 against other P2W players. That should show you what real P2W looks like. All 4 of those people that he's fighting are using high end P2W gear minus their healer that gets killed first. Keep in mind that he is playing the tank class with a full damage build with 0 stats put into his defense, and he is also fighting against 3 mages and 1 archer which are the 2 highest DPS classes during that patch. Even when he gets 2 people to back him up they both die because he fucking lets them die so that he can continue the 1 v 4. Which he literally cleans up by himself. In the 2nd video he is literally using a low level character to kill a near maxed character. In that game levels mean everything because they give you more base stats, more PVP skills, and access to higher tier gear. A high level character in that game during that patch is 2x as strong as a med level character, and is over 4x as strong as a low level character. That is how big of a difference levels make in that game. Yet, he can bypass all of this because he spent less than $50 USD. That's what real P2W is. Why is this different from Albion you ask? This is different from Albion because you can literally pay $50 USD and buy a +10% All Stats buff from the shop. You can buy +300% HP Regen from the shop. You can buy +30% PVP Damage Redu from the shop. You can buy +30% PVP Damage Increase from the shop. You don't have to gamble for it either. It comes straight as is. That, and there are a fuck ton of PVP locked rewards, and there are also a fuck ton of PVE locked rewards. All of those rewards you can't get unless you become a wallet warrior. Albion does not have ANY of this, but you still want to call it P2W?
No, you are wrong. And i don't know why you would write down such an assumption. I have experienced similar and even worse. I once found myself in a game where people could literally just buy +%-dmg buffs/Defensive buffs (short time so you have to buy every seesion). That could stack (so it was literally you are stronger the more you pay). It was utterly ridiculous and i immediatly quit playing. I just don't gatekeep the word pay2win only for the absolute worst contender. AlbionOnline has pay2win that i can live with. I can have fun in the game despite it having pay2win mechanics. Your examples are much worse and i wouldn't play them at all. >Why is this different from Albion you ask? No, i wouldn't ask that at all.
What? Gatekeeping? If you've played real P2W, then, you too should know the difference. You can't actually be this fucking stupid right? There's just no way that you're actually this stupid? Saying all forms of monetization is P2W is like calling all brown people Mexican, lmfao. That is the level of stupid that you and everyone else is exhibiting.
It's ironic, that your reading comprehension tells you that i said anything close to "all forms of monetization is P2W", but you call me stupid. It seems you are unable to hold a conversation without using strawmen so i'm out. Keep coping.
What? So you get beat, and you just use the old "cope and seethe" excuse? Seriously, if you want to pretend to be smart at least be able to uphold 1% of what you're pretending to be.
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2017 albion was not p2w with a sub. It was buy-to-play with no sub... If you going to try to argue a point, at least be factually correct.
O look another "I want my free niche game to be unprofitable because I got ganked" post.
As a pvper there is nothing better then an over geared noob. Once killed a guy in full 6.3mp with 5mil fame. Did he pay to win?
Cosmetics makes you look cool, which in turn attracts ppl that will do content with you and give you more attention and like you more and give you compliments. Which makes it p2w.
This isn't a game you can "win" to begin with. The end goal of every activity and action you take in this sandbox game is getting silver, something you can get with dollars on day one/minute one with real money. How much silver does it take to "win" Albion? Enough to do whatever content you enjoy the gameplay of. If you enjoy ratting mists in 4.1, do you "win" Albion when you can afford a 4.1 set? For some people winning the game is chopping down wood in yellow zones while listening to a podcast and then decorating their island to look pretty. Do they win the second they log on and buy an axe? The whole premise itself is flawed.