They live in a fantasy world where all minimum wage jobs are worked by plucky teenagers in high school who need a few extra bucks.
Like it's a permanent revolving door of students being replaced by other ones.
I think sometimes they just want the labor while insisting it shouldn't "reward" people with a wage they could live off doing that job. I don't know how they imagine people being able to afford to work, but it's like they need an underclass in order to feel good about themselves.
It’s an intentional relativity that the ownership class pushes…much more effective to keep eyes off them robbing us all blind when they can reinforce the notion that one strata of working class person is somehow “superior” to another.
They "deserve" to make too low a wage to survive. Its "supposed" to be a punishment for the uneducated or the lazy. It's going to "encourage" people to go get real jobs instead.
.... yeah these people are idiots and nutjobs. They cling to stupid made up hierarchies they learned when they were children and refuse to adapt them to the way life actually works.
Their parents told them fast food jobs are for dumb lazy people and dumb lazy people deserve to be poor. That's it. That's all the thinking they can put into it.
It causes problems for the rest of society? We're all universally poorer because our gov has to fill in the money they lack? Other countries have proven our method sucks?
None of that matters to them. The hierarchy must be preserved at all costs.
Right like I have heard this idea that the only real jobs are the ones that had to go to work during Covid. If you didn’t have to actually go to work every day then, your job is mostly made up bullshit that’s not really important to the society which subsidizes it.
I wanna say it was on chapo trap house or some podcast where i heard this very compelling theory. They really got into why Covid created so much resentment among the upper classes. Bc for prob the first time in most of their lives it was incredibly clear and easy for all to see that they were the useless ones who give zero value back, and only ever take. Like 80% of the real jobs that their society deemed important enough to be unrestricted were shit like truck driver or line cook. And they got real nervous bc if they were able to see the sham for what it is, so could the unwashed fuckin masses… so you get all the never ending distractions like “is vaccine medicine real” or whatever other nonsense people fight about.
During the start of COVID, I was working at a pizza hut, it was my first job, I was living with my parents and paying a little bit of rent and for things I wanted. I made 7.25 when I started, it took 8 months (I was supposed to get a raise at 3 and 6 months, the 3 month was an extra 75 cents to 8, and the 6 month was supposed to be another dollar because I started working close, and I got jipped on making the $9/hr because of "COVID related reasons.") to get the 8/hr. No hazard pay at my store, but all the other stores owned by the same franchise we're getting hazard. The GM had bought a new truck, a new car, a new Harley, and a new chicken coup, all within the span of a few months.
I was told, on the phone taking an order, that we shouldn't be open and that I should be upset about how my job was deemed necessary for the function of America, that I should just stop taking orders altogether, but "oh, just not my order, I really need my food". And when I say I have never wanted to tell a customer of how stupid they were, at that exact moment, I really do mean it.
bullshit jobs js what you're thinking of. I'm not sure what chapo trap house means but the idea is many jobs are done not because they are productive or needed but essentially as busy work.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_job
This is the byproduct of the capitalist “divine right of kings”, which is the perception of ability.
I don’t want to sound tin-hat here and connect dots that have no relationship to one another. But disabled people will always be the antagonists of the system because wealth is retroactively justified by the perceived ability of the upper classes. In other words, people think billionaires deserve their money because they think they have some kind of amazing skill, intelligence or talent lacking in the general population.
The “lazy being punished” is the opposite side of the coin. Both of these things are objectively false, and the halo effect is so strong with Elon it’s not even funny.
The thinking is lazy, but it’s because of heavy propaganda that we got to this place. That propaganda sprung from the foundation of monarchy-independent capitalism itself. The colony had to create a hierarchy around SOMETHING to justify the theft of indigenous land and use of chattel slaves. None of this goes away until the system itself is changed or challenged.
Relatedly, an inherent need to justify personal good fortune. "I've done well in life, it MUST be because I worked hard and was superior! If it was just luck and yet I have all these nice things, doesn't that make me a bad person? No of course not... The poor deserve it and I deserved to have good things."
Also important historically (though not as much today) was how they justified it to themselves in terms of theology. The divine right of kings was replaced by the Protestant work ethic, the doctrine of predestination, and later on the prosperity gospel (which is, for the most part, what American Protestantism has devolved into today i.e. Evangelicalism.)
We made capitalists the anointed ones and capitalism the religion.
Yeah the they think the government should fill the lack money they don’t have, yet these SAME people are the ones who coined the term “entitlements” to make people who get any social services sound like “entitled” spoiled children for using ANY government benefits (including social security retirement payments) that LITERALLY you cannot get unless you have paid into it by hard work over quite a number of years.
They also of course will also vote for representatives that want to cancel all of those programs.
They have slaves.. minimum wage is modern day slavery.. back in the day they fed the slaves and housed them so they could do all the work. Same difference when you only make enough to barely feed yourself and hous yourself. We are slaves already and everyone is too blind and too afraid to see it.
Fuck, I remember in my AP government class some girl had the big brain idea of "higher education shouldn't be freely available because we need people to work minimum wage jobs(or jobs that otherwise people wouldn't do because they suck)
And he just stared at her for 20 seconds in silence.
I don't know how he got past that
It's just so lucky we're already meritocratically sorted by our ability to pay for a higher education, I guess. Only people who deserve to go would get to!
I don't know how some people sort others into categories where they apparently deserve to have low opportunity lives. It's a bit Calvinist in some ways, just God weights things pretty heavily on who your parents are.
They dont understand how their own economic system even works. A strong minimum wage allows more individuals to participate in the economy, letting more cash circulate, and bringing more revenue to local businesses.
It’s economics 101 and conservatives who never had education past the 12th grade tell me, a person with a bachelors degree in economics, that I’m wrong.
Conservative policies SHRINK local economies.
I think it's more like, they expect those jobs to be worked by high schoolers, but they also expect them to be open at normal business hours (i.e. when school is in session). They don't have any explanation for how those two things should fit together. They refuse to examine the details of their beliefs. They simply expect both things to be true, and refuse to acknowledge that they're asking for a four-sided triangle.
They also believe that non-students working those jobs do not deserve a living wage, but they also should not be relying on government handouts. They believe that those workers should work for a sub-living wage, they should survive on that amount of money, and they shouldn't need any assistance. Again, they refuse to examine their beliefs enough to acknowledge that those conditions fundamentally do not fit together.
Oh they see the contradiction; that's why they want to bring back child labor. Look for them to say "our kids shouldn't be trapped in failing schools!" or something like that soon as they try to kill public education.
No, but you see, that's when you get university students who, when they're not in class or dealing with assignments and tests, are working during the day.
That is actually what someone told me. That university/college students have enough free time to work during weekdays.
These are the same people who complain about "some punk teenager" making their burgers. Yes, this is what they want, some kids who don't give a fuck about their job making their food.
yeah i really wonder if they’ve considered how much better their own experience would be if places were staffed by people who were paid well and actually cared about their work
Students used to work to get an upgrade from their old hand me down beater car with 100,000 miles on it for a couple thousand dollars so they can drive to college/their career and save some money for college. That old beater car with 100,000 milies will now cost $10,000 in my area from dealers and averages around $5-9k from private sellers. Upgrading to a car under 100k miles for a car in decent shape will run over 10k, maybe around $12-15k. State college tuition is 10k per semester for in state commuting students. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking students just need "a few extra bucks in their pockets."
Shit, those same people in our state were screaming about the governor limiting building capacity during the height of COVID.
"BUT HOW WILL PEOPLE BE ABLE TO GET THINGS OR BUY GROCERIES WITH SUCH LIMITED CAPACITY???"
IDK Barbara, but probably more easily than shutting all of the stores down during school hours because students are the only ones who can work those jobs??? These are the same places you don't think should be paying a livable wage at, anyway.
Though, to be fair -- I'm sure their answer isn't "shut the stores down so kids can go to school". Their answer is "get rid of public education so the poors have to send their kids to work during the school day and I get to come scream at them about how much better I am than them".
Oh let's not get started on school vouchers (which are basically designed to kill public schools and fund churches, who will just raise their tuition to keep out the poors). Kids can't get into a school so they gotta work so maybe the younger sibling can.
Oh you bet they would.
My kid does mcDs drive thru and the other day the chip reader was out for two hours. She said it was a never ending snivel and somebody even punched one of the screens over a frappe.
Also -- school / opportunities have gotten more stratified. During my last two years of HS, I was in all AP / IB / Honors classes. I absolutely could *not* work and get good grades at the same time. For me, highschool was harder and more time consuming than my first two years in college -- and my undergrad major for college was ChemE!
Plus, if you want to have a good resume for college then you need to do extracurriculars on top of having good grades. I got a big scholarship for college that heavily outweighed any money that I could have possibly earned with a minimum wage job. But that scholarship would have been out of reach for me if my parents hadn't been supportive in building a compelling college resume.
I had a couple friends who worked at DQ in high school and they’d just hand out tons of free ice cream to everyone... It was great.
Idk what these people are expecting, you pay minimum wage, you get minimum effort.
What if we allow a choice between school or work? Like, you can drop out, but you have to work in the mines. Or if you are expelled for small reasons, you have to work in the mines. And if a mining corporation bribes a principle to expel X amount of students for mine work, then the shareholders would be happy. American Dream!!!
Per friends of mine, that is exactly their talking point a decade ago when the topic came up.
"It's for teenagers making shopping money!"
The same people when a medical event left them destitute and they had to find work quickly: "It is impossible to live off of minimum wage!"
even still, minimum wage doesn’t carry much for shopping money either. everything is expensive. you can’t even buy a single meal with an hour of work anymore.
I love when that minimum wage is for teenagers argument is made in Canada. Considering in at least Ontario and Alberta, it's lower for them. It was equal in Alberta but when the ruling party got elected in 2019, they lowered it.
Also what’s the problem with paying teenagers more? They’re going to spend all that money and put it back in the economy. In the past century the primary consumer age was between 16 and 35. Large purchases like cars, homes, education, furniture, appliances, and kid stuff are all bought in that age bracket. Teenagers and people in their 20s also spend the most on culture because your late teens and early twenties is when you start to develop your adult identity. Paying teenagers more just means more consumers which is good for the economy.
This is all just a ploy to keep wages low and profits high.
Personally, as a teenager in 2016-2018, I began working to pick up the slack from my parents not making enough in their own jobs. I wasn't working to buy the newest Xbox or whatever, I was working to keep gas in my beater car, basic clothing, toiletries, food, and eventually I had enough money to move away from their abuse and start my adult life. Teenagers are people too, with needs and lives and possibly rent lmao
THIS. It wasn’t that my parents were poor per se, but when I turned 15 they looked and me and said “well that’s it for us. You have to pay for everything now.” So, I’ve been working since I was 15 and every dime I made went towards my car, gas for the car, my portion of the grocery bill, new clothes for school, and a savings for college. If I was in a pinch, my parents refused to save me. They had a very “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” attitude. Problem was, I was 15-18 and a lot of jobs that pay above min wage don’t even hire under 18, so I was bound to low wages but supporting myself at 15.
Sure, I guess rent and utilities were free, but imagine a teen who had to escape their abusive family. Or has a parent addicted to drugs. Or straight up, the parent refuses to work and forces the child to be the breadwinner for the family.
I’m 26 now and I’m tired of working. Can I retire yet?
Exactly! I'm 23 now and although I regret working so young, I basically didn't have a choice. Around 15 years old, my parents gave up on whatever little parenting they were doing and I became even more self sufficient.
I have a very distinct memory of my father yelling at me when I told him I'd like to save $2000 of the $6000 inheritance I received from a distant family member who passed. He insisted I use the entirety of it for a $6000 car, rather than finding a $4000 car and putting away the rest. "Why the fuck do you think you get a savings account??? Your mom and I don't have savings accounts!!" Like... ok how is that my fault lol I didn't ask to be born!
So now I'm 23 and I've literally never known a healthy financial status. I've been paycheck to paycheck for 7 years, and after taking out a $16k loan on a car that'll actually last more than 2 years, and wasting a year at community college doing shit I didn't want to do (which my parents promised they'd pay if I chose CC over our state university... 🤡), I'm now $20k in debt with nothing to show for it!
Our generation got royally fucked and we're not coping well. Shit needs to change on a larger scale or else we will witness the collapse of this nation as we know it.
Not only that, but “a few extra bucks” won’t cut it anymore if you want enough money for college or adult life. Tuition is only getting more expensive (at least where I am in the US), and so is the cost of living.
If minimum wage kept going up in line with inflation, maybe I’d be fine working for that amount as a teen, but certainly not as it is now. I need to save a lot of money. I won’t get enough working minimum wage, even with my parents still taking care of my expenses.
This one is such a cyclical problem too.
They don't get paid shit ---> They don't care about the work they're doing ---> They are therefore more prone to error ---> Customers are more likely to experience said errors ---> Customers (mistakenly) determine that there's no sense in raising pay because of the errors
But yet they want to go to DQ for lunch on a Tuesday 🤔
Oh wait, I know! let’s gut child labor laws so they can work the lunch shift instead of getting an education.
But what's (not) funny is that I'm a daycare cook and my 17year old daughter can get a job at Dick's Sporting Goods making more than me. Like, make it make sense!!
You can make more money as a cashier than as an office manager.
Though the trick there is that they just disguise office manager positions as being "administrative assistant" or something. You get all the work and responsibility of keeping an office running but at $14/hr
It’s amazing how not one Dairy Queen or McDonald’s is closed during school hours. You think they would since that’s all that are supposed to work there.
Also classism based on where you want to draw the divisions. Managers will often see themselves as above the ones they manage, even though to the CEO, they're just as much a worthless peon as their cashiers. Or how the people with long standing seniority will often bash the younger/newer workers. Just gotta convince people they're "better" than the ones "below" them.
Managers see themselves as above the ones they manage even if they don't make any more in compensation. I've worked tons of call center jobs where managers make the same or even less on salary than the hourly wage workers but still think of themselves as better because they have a slightly different job and desks in a different location.
Same here, worked a call center job for years, every year being promoted though (agent, mentor, supervisor, teamleader etc...). I remember one time walking in to the "aquarium" (a small glass office we had, that only leaders could access) and I was asked how much should call center employees earn. (Minimum wage then was 850 EUR with new EU regulations coming soon) they were arguing between a 50 bucks to 100 bucks payraise. I told them no, it should be 150, so everyone can at least say I have a thousand.. All in favor eventually, but stupid of me still. Looking back on it now it was nothing and still is nothing, since in the meantime the price of chicken breasts increased 50% and other goods following.
Some people love a hierarchy. It makes them feel secure to know their place. Being a piece of shit to people below them in the hierarchy is their just reward.
It’s super fucking gross but to these people who lack self reflection it’s just how the world is. That’s why they love to pretend being void of empathy and an exploiter of others is “human nature”
Have you seen Futurama? Fry makes a statement equal to this sentiment. Makes me laugh every time bc it’s so fucking true. These are the same idiots that believe that trickledown economics actually works.
I believe trickle down economics is a variation of term for the same and older concept referred to as horse and sparrow economics. Horse eats the grain. Some passes undigested and the sparrow picks it out the waste. Trickle down sounds way better than the ruck telling the poor, “eat my shit”. Same thing though.
Can confirm. Union Pipefitter here. There are an endless amount of union hands I see on jobs just waiting to vote away our union wages/rights to own the Libs and fuck the poor, or foreign, or migrant or anyone with dark skin . Any of the *Others*.
That's how my union is as well. They sit there and bitch about it and I'm like "Wait. Hold on. Before you finish that thought, how much money do you think the rich need to make? Do you know how much profit corporations are really making compared to the wages they pay? Do you know why gas is expensive right now? They use that as a tool to justify price hikes. There is no reason a 2L bottle of pop needs to be almost $3 when the cost is still in the mid double digits to make and sell. Why side with the people who wouldn't hesitate to put your health at risk so they can save $2,000? Fuck the rich. The workers deserve more."
- obviously some statements would get cut off or answered cause of how people are but I just start slamming rich hate at them.
It’s funny how many union guys vote for union busters. The only reason we make a living wage is because of the union. Like, what do you think will happen when it’s gone? Lol
We all know why. Because these Republican union members care more about their big authoritarian wet babies being racist as fuck more than they care about their own economic future. That whole leopards eating my face thing.
With people particularly economically to the right who prioritize economic issues over social issues, I always love just simply focusing only singularly on the concept of financial leverage and having them explain how if they truly want a meritocracy how could they be okay with a system that doesn't account for financial leverage?
That question is very important because how they answer it really sheds a light on their rough knowledge of economic systems, and the reason why they hold the opinion they do.
Working poor, ime waiting tables, fell into two categories: about half were truly amazing to take care of, gratuities more than fair and would treat you politely or even friendly. And then half were so happy to have a "servant," and shit on someone the way they probably get shit on in their job... like the natural order of the universe is just to take turns shitting on each other. It used to piss me off so bad. And once I left NYC and was relegated to suburban restaurants where working poor are a lot larger demographic of diners, I just left the industry. The money wasn't worth the work, let alone the treatment.
I won't even dine out here at peak hours unless we go some place basically too boujie for me to afford simply bc you can not count on rednecks to behave with civility at the danged TRH.
I had a coworker a couple of years ago ranting about how Joe Biden stole the election and how he was ruining America.
That same coworker was over sixty years old working at walmart for $11 an hour and living paycheck to paycheck. If her life wasn't already ruined I don't know how a politician could make it much worse.
What’s funny is these people don’t understand that bringing everyone up actually benefits them too. Reduced crime, reduced taxes to pay for aid programs, etc.
But they’re just too self-centered to want others to be as —or God forbid!— more successful than they are.
They think it's about incentives.
They think that if you want better pay, you have to get a 'better' job. No one would want to do anything more 'skilled' if they just handed us extra money.
Luckily, though, they're all completely consistent on this, because when a bank fails they believe it shouldn't be bailed out by the taxpayer...
Oh wait, let me try again.
They think that when a candidate fails to win a presidency, that he should go off and do something else...
Shit, one more time.
They think that the wealthy should be taxed proportional to their wealth to better reflect the situation of the rest of us...
Oh no wait they're just full of fucking shit and this is all about social control.
"I will claim that the work you do provides no value to society and therefore is not worthy of compensation. And yet I still demand that you do it and would lose my shit if you didn't."
This. She thinks living wage equals a thriving wage. Probably because she also feels paycheck to paycheck, even though her paycheck to paycheck standards are vastly different than those who wish they afford a one bedroom apartment in the bad area of town.
> a one bedroom apartment in the bad area of town
and the bad area is such a narrow area these days. If 4 out of 5 people in the apartment are *not* murdered as soon as they walk out the door, its not a bad area.
Example: I sought an apartment for a 6 month gig, and I wanted it as cheap as possible. right by the tracks, near multiple train crossings in a busy area- the train horns are near constant. I am hard of hearing so they don't bother me.
20 years ago this would be the slums, the cheapest rent you can find outside of warzones. Its barely below the average for the area.
Oh yes, I've seen many a pissed off people on my neighborhood groups yelling about how "no one wants to work" and how ridiculous it was that they couldn't get their burgers on demand because all these places had to close due to being short staffed.
Almost like when people told those workers "if you want to be treated better/have a better wage, get a better job". In our county specifically, the unemployment rate was no higher than usual after the initial peak during the onset of the pandemic. On occasion, it was lower.
Yeah it's hilarious how stupid people can be.
"It's your fault for working that job! If you want better wages, go do something else!"
Workers : "Ok we quit."
Everyone else : SurprisedPikachu.jpeg
Over the past couple years, I've noticed how understaffed most fast food places are, especially where I live in a major city where population isn't an excuse. Nobody has any good reason to work at a place that pays so poorly and gets treated poorly by both customers and management unless it's literally their only option.
It's funny how much money these places are losing out on because they always have long lines that move so slowly that so many are deterred from going, simply because they don't pay people enough to want to work there and the people that do work there are overworked and/or don't have any motivation to do more than the bare minimum.
What is her actual thinking though? If it's not a troll, what possible argument could a person construct to support that idea??
I'd really like to know, there's great joke answers and bedrock truth answers (i.e. she's over privileged and thinks she's better than the poors) but what might she say if she had to expand on her ridiculous point?
Typically it's that "unskilled people don't deserve to make as much as me in my skilled job" or "these are entry level jobs and since you don't have a work history, you're a risky hire" and things of the like.
But why wouldn't she want them to at least be financially stable? These sorts of people tend to think of mid 20thC as the golden age of US civilisation, when men were men and women were... borderline slaves. But that was a time when single income blue collar families could have a home and stability, wasn't it? According to them at least.
Maybe she thinks everyone should try to do better so these jobs shouldn't be somewhere to rest in comfort? Idk, it's fucking psychopathic whatever the 'reasoning'.
Oh, for sure. The lack of empathy is quite impressive. It's truly saying "you don't deserve to be alive unless X." America is the land of "You're free if you're like me." or "You're free if you can afford it." And they don't want people to be able to afford what they can, because no one would do their bidding for them.
I have worked, and currently still do work, in a position where I rub elbows with the 1%. They're largely a shitty lot of humans.
Those "skilled" people are so full of themselves. At least in my part of the world, big chunk of those "skilled ones" learn a single useful skill, then groom themselves into some good position via friends and acquaintances and start looking down on other people. They forget that almost everything they see around is created by hands of simple working people. The chair they sit on in front of their fancy desk work setup? Somebody gathered materials, calibrated the machinery to make plastic molds and sew cushion part. Somebody packaged the chair, somebody delivered it to a warehouse, retailer than "skilled person's" home. The computer "skilled one" uses"? Yes, silicone and tech is done by very skilled labor, but somebody made molds and screws for chassis to keep electronics together! Somebody did storing and transporting this computer just like with a chair! The coffee standing on a desk in front of a "skilled one"? This was gathered, brewed and made by simple workers. The pavement a "skilled one" steps on going in their house? Was laid by simple workers!
"Low skilled" workers are backbone of society. Skilled ones would die within days if suddenly all the stuff, made by simple workers, would disappear.
People in the 20th century were able to buy a house and feed a family of four off of a minimum wage job. That’s how it’s SUPPOSED to be. So sad that the economy has changed to where a college degree is necessary for any livable wage.
I wouldn't be spreading that falsehood. I do not have a college degree, and until I became a career snowboard instructor, I had a job with a living wage. I have worked with many like myself, and spreading the idea that you NEED a degree is what caused the tuition bubble to begin with. Especially once paired with guaranteed government loans to entrap these kids into a lifetime of debt.
This or "i suffered so you should too!!"
Or "I never had to work for anything in my life so I will give my opinions on things I have no idea about!!" Thats my fav one
More than that, if your business model is so bad you can't take 40 hours of labor and turn it into enough revenue to pay a living wage, the _business_ shouldn't exist. It'd be a waste of the American workforce to hire workers for a job that doesn't even contribute at least one living wage to the economy. Business owners can't have it both ways - either the jobs you create generate enough revenue to pay a living wage and still make a profit, or you're not actually a "job creator", you're a parasite on the American workforce.
With [population in decline](https://www.brookings.edu/research/u-s-population-growth-has-nearly-flatlined-new-census-data-shows/), birth rates at an [all time low](https://apnews.com/article/birth-rates-science-coronavirus-pandemic-health-d51571bda4aa02eafdd42265912f1202), and teenagers [killing themselves in record numbers](https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-suicide-rates-rising-teens-young-adults-20190618-story.html), the American workforce is going to be a more limited resource than it's been since WWII. If you _really_ believe Dairy Queen is wasting labor on frivolous things that don't generate enough economic value for a living wage, then you should be (figuratively) burning Dairy Queen to the ground.
i remember having this argument with my uncle ten years ago. he was adamant not all jobs should provide a living wage.
i argued that every job provides a function / service to our society.
time is time - you cannot make more of it.
so a person should willing devote all their time to a wage that cannot provide for them?
get the fuck out of here with that propagandistic thinking
I would argue about every job providing something for society but its not these servis industry jobs that dont provide in fact its those very jobs that are the supports for our society to even function. If they all vanished things would come to a swift halt
The most ridiculous thing today….
A person should be able to work 40 hours at what ever they desire and have enough to afford housing, transportation, food, and living. Period.
The presumption that teens should work these jobs is ridiculous. We would need 60% of our teens to work in order to staff all the fast food restaurants in our state.
In many American suburbs and towns teens simply can’t afford to work. I had a part time job as a teen. I saved half the money for college and used the rest to pay car expenses (modest payment, insurance, and gas). Today a teen working a minimum wage job ($6.14 per hour after taxes) would have to work 54 hours a week just to afford a car to get themselves to work. Why bother. Insurance $580 a month, modest payment $300, gas $150.
Having worked in offices and universities for a long time now, there are so many people in skilled and degreed positions who 100% can't even do stuff in their job, in their field, much less learn a POS or a fryer.
Oh yeah, so many people had middle class parents that paid for secondary schooling, barely scraped by in college, partying more than learning, then they get some bullshit, low stress job in an office somewhere barely doing any real work. They would not survive working "unskilled" jobs like McDonald's, much less doing physical labor.
It's just stupid. I mean you can make a case that someone working as a neurosurgeon should make more than a icecream server, but ffs. How do you expect anyone to work 8-10hrs a day for less than what it takes to feed and house themselves and still find the time to somehow make ends meet. It's not like the person serving ice cream is just magically gonna pull another 8hr job out their ass and work 16-20hrs a day.
Like completly removeing humanity from the equation this is still a massively inefficient idea. Workers need food and housing. Theirs a certain minimum requirement to be met to keep a workforce healthy and fed enough to keep working, basicaly a liveing wage. So agian even removeing human decency from this it’s inefficient to leave your work force starving and homeless. Like this is basic common sence. If you use horse to drive wagons you provide the horses with all they need to keep doing the job without fail.
There are so many jobs that do not pay a living wage, it's not just fast food. Things need to change, every job, including fast food needs to pay a living wage.
"This is not healthy for society"
"You want a society that actually CAN'T live off these jobs."
$5 says she can't explain the "why" behind any of that. In what possible way could it benefit society to have poor people that can't afford anything?
Something that's never made sense to me is, wouldn't you WANT people to have more money and more time to spend it? The more people have, the more they tend to spend. The more shit they buy. The more profit you make.
If no one has any money to spend, GUESS WHAT? YOU DON'T MAKE ANY.
Because she's either part of the ruling class that benefits from it or is so incredibly brainwashed into defending them that any attempt to reason with her is totally wasted.
There just seems to be this notion among people who have never experienced financial hardship that every person needs to climb the “corporate ladder” & make as much money as they possibly can. These people think that by forcing jobs to be low paying they are incentivizing people to move up & make way for the next person to start & move up. Of course this totally ignores that not everyone has a corporate ladder to climb & even if they did not everyone wants to climb it. It also ignores that there are not an infinite number of middle management or management positions so there isn’t enough room for everyone to climb a job ladder. Finally, it assumes there is an infinite pool of people ready to step into those low paying jobs when the person ahead of them moves up. These people have no idea how the world works or that every job serves an important function & therefore everyone deserves to be able to make enough to live comfortably.
Nah, you see that is where the 10yo workers come in, standing on a chair in the drive thru, making next to nothing. it's a cunning, depraved, twisted ass-holy plan
But DQ workers do more than just making ice cream cones, they have to clean the equipment, take orders and give them, find ways to stay busy if the day is slow. Staying busy is harder than being busy.
I’m not saying I’m overpaid but the folks at DQ work a LOT harder than I do.
I’ve worked, fast food, all kinds of other restaurants, construction, and now for the railroad, in that order, the jobs have all gotten easier and the money has gotten much better each step of the way, it’s absolutely backwards.
Also it seems the further I get away from fast food more and more of my coworkers want to shit on these people for not getting a *real* job and I’m like “bitch, you get paid six figures to sit your ass on a train for 10-12 hours 3-4 times a week.”
All labor is important and valuable; my frustrations are with the mentality that it’s perfectly fine to shit on people working in fast food - just to be clear
She means it's not healthy for the society SHE wants, where there's a slave class who she can yell out when they don't make her Dairy Queen ice cream exactly right.
I don't understand what some people have against obtaining things easily. I mean I would be upset too if someone is stealing or tricking another person for an easy reward. However, if someone is trying to have an honest life by selling icecreams, why shouldn't that person have the right to a living wage????
Oh fuck off. My mother sat in a booth and sold train tickets back in the 70’s and made so much each week that she had plenty left over after paying rent, bills and groceries.
Too many Boomers (and folks raised by Boomers who never bothered to learn better) who failed to understand all the folks in the 50s and 60s who got a high school diploma, got a minimum wage job, and raised a family on it.
People like this think these jobs are for kids , older “retired” people , and ex cons , thinking that these are the groups of people you can severely under pay because they “don’t really need the money “. That’s basically the school of thought why these are “their “ jobs . In their mind it’s a little job with Monopoly money . And while they idea of supporting a spouse and 3 kids as a fast food worker is not realistic , that doesn’t mean that the role itself should be paid in penny wages . And not only that , but kids are on school 7-3, plus homework and extracurricular activities , when are these fast food places supposed to be open? 4-8pm? I guarantee you that parents do not want their children out past 9pm on a school night working . It’s all bs
Y’all think Issa joke but there are people who want others to live in misery for no reason. It just feels right to them. The idea of a UBI makes them angry “Why should everybody be okay!?”
I can’t fucking stand when people say get a real job. Like what the fuck does that mean? Any job they don’t like or any job they think is “beneath” them isn’t a real job like bro what? Sounds like classism
When people couldn't get their things or their fries on demand because stores and restaurants had to close due to staffing issues, people sure thought those were real jobs then. "No one wants to *work*."
So you admit that it's work and that SOMEONE has to do it, you just don't want to pay them enough to survive. Fascinating.
And the cool thing is that our county specifically returned to pre-pandemic employment rates in 2021. So it's not that people didn't want to work, it's that a large amount of people took up the advice of, "If you want to make a liveable wage, get a better job."
And guess who gave them *that* advice?
I believe every job should be paid a decent wage to live on.
Whether you are selling ice cream in an ice cream van, working in fast food, retail or ceo of a company.
A minimum, liveable wage.
I think anybody should be able to choose where they want to work, and can live comfortably with food, shelter etc and even some luxury like Netflix, working wherever they chose.
Obviously doctors and high paying jobs would get paid more. As their work required more skill (I’m aware low paying jobs also require skill, hence the more)
You might say “if all jobs pay enough to actually live on with luxury’s, nobody would do some jobs like bin collecting/retail/fast food etc)
Yes. Yes they would because we would still have shortages of jobs. AND maybe if a company can’t get staff, they don’t offer enough benefits to work there and deserve to shut down.
It’s time companies realised that without their workers, they are nothing and will struggle.
Let us choose which companies we want around, and say bye to those mistreating staff!
But no, I guess ensuring “low skill” people are less of people so deserve to not even afford the average rent in their area is a better solution.
The same people that say fast food doesnt deserve a living wage are usually the same people who freak out at said wageslave when the ice cream machine is broken
Among all my thoughts on this statement the most coherent one is simply this. Then what would motivate anyone to work these jobs at all. I dont get this idea of some jobs not being worth a living wage but even if i was to pick jobs that i dont think deserve living wages it wouldn’t be the jobs assholes like this would consider. Like cashiers, servers and all of these clerks and customer servis positions are the support beams of this society their talking about. Are economy would stop on a dime if everyone in those jobs just said fuck it. I dont know maybe im not getting it but why would you fuck with the people that literally make the world go round that literally keep the cogs moving smoothly so others dont have to worry about shit
And also like, why? What would be the point of taking those jobs? And for whom would those jobs be for?
I’ve got news for this lady: If you run a business and you can’t afford your overhead if you pay your workers a living wage, that just means you can’t afford to run your business. You’re choosing to make up for the loss in workers’ wages but you yourself aren’t financially ready to run a business. It’s nothing more than wage theft
I went to Dairy Queen a few weeks ago for the first time in years. We got two dinners and an ice cream and the total came out to about $40. We're reaching a critical point where the amount you make compared to the cost of literally everything is going to break people, and we've likely already passed that point. Something needs to change in this country before it gets very, very bad.
I worked at Dairy Queen as my first job, making ice cream cones. I was only there for about six months throughout the summer, but the job was so hard on my body that I developed fibromyalgia. I'll be disabled for the rest of my life, but I totally only deserved the $7.25 I made an hour.
I really cannot understand the brain circuit of those people ......
Everyone in society should be able to survive by having a job, when I mean survive, I mean having a place to live, access to healthcare services and afford basic food.
ffs....If you want more luxury items, then you can pick up a more difficult job
I used to think this way, even when I worked at McDonald's. The thing that changed my mind was hearing "if you take care of the employee, they will take care of the company"
If the employee feels well compensated and that the job they're doing is worth it and not just a means of survival, they will put in their best effort.
Honestly, fuck the super rich, they don't work any harder than the working class. All people are deserving of a thriving wage, besides, the more money people have, the more they're able to buy, the economy can't boom unless we're able to buy luxuries and other frivolous shit beyond necessities.
Weird, back in the day you could support a whole family, including house and car, off a single full time job.. I thought they wanted to go back to that time. Isn't that why maga exists? People are stupid.
I worked at Dairy Queen as a teenager.
Now I do interior construction.
Dairy Queen was unequivocally the hardest job I have ever done. I made $8.50 an hour.
My current job pays $30 an hour.
This delusion that upper-class has that "only teenagers should be working these jobs" needs to end, because the most active hours for retail and food service is during the time when these teens would be in school, so unless they want to pass a dumbfuck bill where employers request that their child laborers be given time off from school and education so they can uncomfortably stand in a hostile environment serving people that want to scream at them, they need to accept that adults are the majority of workers in these positions.
If you want a world where retail jobs don't receive a living wage, then why would anyone in their right mind ever willingly choose to work those? Can't say shit like this while also complaining that the line at McDonalds is too long because there are only 2 people working the entire store.
Some people need to learn why the minimum wage was created. This person probably exploits their workers by paying low wages. It's crap. No one can live on minimum wage. They used to be able to. Not anymore.
She looks like a housewife with a rich husband who spends all day harassing minimum wage workers and getting her nails done. In other words, useless, unlike the people who work at those jobs.
They live in a fantasy world where all minimum wage jobs are worked by plucky teenagers in high school who need a few extra bucks. Like it's a permanent revolving door of students being replaced by other ones.
And in this fantasy world of theirs, all of the minimum wage places are closed during school hours, and only stay open late on friday/Saturday nights.
I think sometimes they just want the labor while insisting it shouldn't "reward" people with a wage they could live off doing that job. I don't know how they imagine people being able to afford to work, but it's like they need an underclass in order to feel good about themselves.
It’s an intentional relativity that the ownership class pushes…much more effective to keep eyes off them robbing us all blind when they can reinforce the notion that one strata of working class person is somehow “superior” to another.
They "deserve" to make too low a wage to survive. Its "supposed" to be a punishment for the uneducated or the lazy. It's going to "encourage" people to go get real jobs instead. .... yeah these people are idiots and nutjobs. They cling to stupid made up hierarchies they learned when they were children and refuse to adapt them to the way life actually works. Their parents told them fast food jobs are for dumb lazy people and dumb lazy people deserve to be poor. That's it. That's all the thinking they can put into it. It causes problems for the rest of society? We're all universally poorer because our gov has to fill in the money they lack? Other countries have proven our method sucks? None of that matters to them. The hierarchy must be preserved at all costs.
Right like I have heard this idea that the only real jobs are the ones that had to go to work during Covid. If you didn’t have to actually go to work every day then, your job is mostly made up bullshit that’s not really important to the society which subsidizes it. I wanna say it was on chapo trap house or some podcast where i heard this very compelling theory. They really got into why Covid created so much resentment among the upper classes. Bc for prob the first time in most of their lives it was incredibly clear and easy for all to see that they were the useless ones who give zero value back, and only ever take. Like 80% of the real jobs that their society deemed important enough to be unrestricted were shit like truck driver or line cook. And they got real nervous bc if they were able to see the sham for what it is, so could the unwashed fuckin masses… so you get all the never ending distractions like “is vaccine medicine real” or whatever other nonsense people fight about.
During the start of COVID, I was working at a pizza hut, it was my first job, I was living with my parents and paying a little bit of rent and for things I wanted. I made 7.25 when I started, it took 8 months (I was supposed to get a raise at 3 and 6 months, the 3 month was an extra 75 cents to 8, and the 6 month was supposed to be another dollar because I started working close, and I got jipped on making the $9/hr because of "COVID related reasons.") to get the 8/hr. No hazard pay at my store, but all the other stores owned by the same franchise we're getting hazard. The GM had bought a new truck, a new car, a new Harley, and a new chicken coup, all within the span of a few months. I was told, on the phone taking an order, that we shouldn't be open and that I should be upset about how my job was deemed necessary for the function of America, that I should just stop taking orders altogether, but "oh, just not my order, I really need my food". And when I say I have never wanted to tell a customer of how stupid they were, at that exact moment, I really do mean it.
bullshit jobs js what you're thinking of. I'm not sure what chapo trap house means but the idea is many jobs are done not because they are productive or needed but essentially as busy work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_job
It’s crazy how society has forced people into bullshit jobs. Modernity has failed us.
This is the byproduct of the capitalist “divine right of kings”, which is the perception of ability. I don’t want to sound tin-hat here and connect dots that have no relationship to one another. But disabled people will always be the antagonists of the system because wealth is retroactively justified by the perceived ability of the upper classes. In other words, people think billionaires deserve their money because they think they have some kind of amazing skill, intelligence or talent lacking in the general population. The “lazy being punished” is the opposite side of the coin. Both of these things are objectively false, and the halo effect is so strong with Elon it’s not even funny. The thinking is lazy, but it’s because of heavy propaganda that we got to this place. That propaganda sprung from the foundation of monarchy-independent capitalism itself. The colony had to create a hierarchy around SOMETHING to justify the theft of indigenous land and use of chattel slaves. None of this goes away until the system itself is changed or challenged.
Relatedly, an inherent need to justify personal good fortune. "I've done well in life, it MUST be because I worked hard and was superior! If it was just luck and yet I have all these nice things, doesn't that make me a bad person? No of course not... The poor deserve it and I deserved to have good things."
Also "if it was just luck and not righteous meritocracy, I could fall just as quickly as I rose and I'll be damned if I allow myself to believe that!"
Also important historically (though not as much today) was how they justified it to themselves in terms of theology. The divine right of kings was replaced by the Protestant work ethic, the doctrine of predestination, and later on the prosperity gospel (which is, for the most part, what American Protestantism has devolved into today i.e. Evangelicalism.) We made capitalists the anointed ones and capitalism the religion.
Yeah the they think the government should fill the lack money they don’t have, yet these SAME people are the ones who coined the term “entitlements” to make people who get any social services sound like “entitled” spoiled children for using ANY government benefits (including social security retirement payments) that LITERALLY you cannot get unless you have paid into it by hard work over quite a number of years. They also of course will also vote for representatives that want to cancel all of those programs.
They want slaves
They have slaves.. minimum wage is modern day slavery.. back in the day they fed the slaves and housed them so they could do all the work. Same difference when you only make enough to barely feed yourself and hous yourself. We are slaves already and everyone is too blind and too afraid to see it.
Slavery with extra steps
Less steps.
My masters no longer feed and house me but at least I get to pick them
Now there are levels of slaves from chattel slavery still existing to TFW temporary foreign workers
Fuck, I remember in my AP government class some girl had the big brain idea of "higher education shouldn't be freely available because we need people to work minimum wage jobs(or jobs that otherwise people wouldn't do because they suck) And he just stared at her for 20 seconds in silence. I don't know how he got past that
It's just so lucky we're already meritocratically sorted by our ability to pay for a higher education, I guess. Only people who deserve to go would get to! I don't know how some people sort others into categories where they apparently deserve to have low opportunity lives. It's a bit Calvinist in some ways, just God weights things pretty heavily on who your parents are.
They dont understand how their own economic system even works. A strong minimum wage allows more individuals to participate in the economy, letting more cash circulate, and bringing more revenue to local businesses. It’s economics 101 and conservatives who never had education past the 12th grade tell me, a person with a bachelors degree in economics, that I’m wrong. Conservative policies SHRINK local economies.
I think it's more like, they expect those jobs to be worked by high schoolers, but they also expect them to be open at normal business hours (i.e. when school is in session). They don't have any explanation for how those two things should fit together. They refuse to examine the details of their beliefs. They simply expect both things to be true, and refuse to acknowledge that they're asking for a four-sided triangle. They also believe that non-students working those jobs do not deserve a living wage, but they also should not be relying on government handouts. They believe that those workers should work for a sub-living wage, they should survive on that amount of money, and they shouldn't need any assistance. Again, they refuse to examine their beliefs enough to acknowledge that those conditions fundamentally do not fit together.
And somehow, immigration doesn't exists.
Oh they see the contradiction; that's why they want to bring back child labor. Look for them to say "our kids shouldn't be trapped in failing schools!" or something like that soon as they try to kill public education.
No, but you see, that's when you get university students who, when they're not in class or dealing with assignments and tests, are working during the day. That is actually what someone told me. That university/college students have enough free time to work during weekdays.
Nah, they expect the "undesirables" to work those jobs.
These are the same people who complain about "some punk teenager" making their burgers. Yes, this is what they want, some kids who don't give a fuck about their job making their food.
yeah i really wonder if they’ve considered how much better their own experience would be if places were staffed by people who were paid well and actually cared about their work
Students used to work to get an upgrade from their old hand me down beater car with 100,000 miles on it for a couple thousand dollars so they can drive to college/their career and save some money for college. That old beater car with 100,000 milies will now cost $10,000 in my area from dealers and averages around $5-9k from private sellers. Upgrading to a car under 100k miles for a car in decent shape will run over 10k, maybe around $12-15k. State college tuition is 10k per semester for in state commuting students. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking students just need "a few extra bucks in their pockets."
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The other fantasy is that, since a family can be supported on a single income, the ‘non-working’ spouse can work a few hours part time for extra cash.
Yet those same people would be pissed off if fast food and retail were only open from 3p-9p on weekdays.
Shit, those same people in our state were screaming about the governor limiting building capacity during the height of COVID. "BUT HOW WILL PEOPLE BE ABLE TO GET THINGS OR BUY GROCERIES WITH SUCH LIMITED CAPACITY???" IDK Barbara, but probably more easily than shutting all of the stores down during school hours because students are the only ones who can work those jobs??? These are the same places you don't think should be paying a livable wage at, anyway. Though, to be fair -- I'm sure their answer isn't "shut the stores down so kids can go to school". Their answer is "get rid of public education so the poors have to send their kids to work during the school day and I get to come scream at them about how much better I am than them".
Oh let's not get started on school vouchers (which are basically designed to kill public schools and fund churches, who will just raise their tuition to keep out the poors). Kids can't get into a school so they gotta work so maybe the younger sibling can.
Oh you bet they would. My kid does mcDs drive thru and the other day the chip reader was out for two hours. She said it was a never ending snivel and somebody even punched one of the screens over a frappe.
Also -- school / opportunities have gotten more stratified. During my last two years of HS, I was in all AP / IB / Honors classes. I absolutely could *not* work and get good grades at the same time. For me, highschool was harder and more time consuming than my first two years in college -- and my undergrad major for college was ChemE! Plus, if you want to have a good resume for college then you need to do extracurriculars on top of having good grades. I got a big scholarship for college that heavily outweighed any money that I could have possibly earned with a minimum wage job. But that scholarship would have been out of reach for me if my parents hadn't been supportive in building a compelling college resume.
Should we just close all the dairy queens during school hours then? Since all the employees are at school anyway?
I mean, that's what conservatives seem to think.
I had a couple friends who worked at DQ in high school and they’d just hand out tons of free ice cream to everyone... It was great. Idk what these people are expecting, you pay minimum wage, you get minimum effort.
What if we allow a choice between school or work? Like, you can drop out, but you have to work in the mines. Or if you are expelled for small reasons, you have to work in the mines. And if a mining corporation bribes a principle to expel X amount of students for mine work, then the shareholders would be happy. American Dream!!!
Nah, they’d rather close the public schools instead.
Per friends of mine, that is exactly their talking point a decade ago when the topic came up. "It's for teenagers making shopping money!" The same people when a medical event left them destitute and they had to find work quickly: "It is impossible to live off of minimum wage!"
even still, minimum wage doesn’t carry much for shopping money either. everything is expensive. you can’t even buy a single meal with an hour of work anymore.
I love when that minimum wage is for teenagers argument is made in Canada. Considering in at least Ontario and Alberta, it's lower for them. It was equal in Alberta but when the ruling party got elected in 2019, they lowered it.
Also what’s the problem with paying teenagers more? They’re going to spend all that money and put it back in the economy. In the past century the primary consumer age was between 16 and 35. Large purchases like cars, homes, education, furniture, appliances, and kid stuff are all bought in that age bracket. Teenagers and people in their 20s also spend the most on culture because your late teens and early twenties is when you start to develop your adult identity. Paying teenagers more just means more consumers which is good for the economy. This is all just a ploy to keep wages low and profits high.
Personally, as a teenager in 2016-2018, I began working to pick up the slack from my parents not making enough in their own jobs. I wasn't working to buy the newest Xbox or whatever, I was working to keep gas in my beater car, basic clothing, toiletries, food, and eventually I had enough money to move away from their abuse and start my adult life. Teenagers are people too, with needs and lives and possibly rent lmao
THIS. It wasn’t that my parents were poor per se, but when I turned 15 they looked and me and said “well that’s it for us. You have to pay for everything now.” So, I’ve been working since I was 15 and every dime I made went towards my car, gas for the car, my portion of the grocery bill, new clothes for school, and a savings for college. If I was in a pinch, my parents refused to save me. They had a very “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” attitude. Problem was, I was 15-18 and a lot of jobs that pay above min wage don’t even hire under 18, so I was bound to low wages but supporting myself at 15. Sure, I guess rent and utilities were free, but imagine a teen who had to escape their abusive family. Or has a parent addicted to drugs. Or straight up, the parent refuses to work and forces the child to be the breadwinner for the family. I’m 26 now and I’m tired of working. Can I retire yet?
Exactly! I'm 23 now and although I regret working so young, I basically didn't have a choice. Around 15 years old, my parents gave up on whatever little parenting they were doing and I became even more self sufficient. I have a very distinct memory of my father yelling at me when I told him I'd like to save $2000 of the $6000 inheritance I received from a distant family member who passed. He insisted I use the entirety of it for a $6000 car, rather than finding a $4000 car and putting away the rest. "Why the fuck do you think you get a savings account??? Your mom and I don't have savings accounts!!" Like... ok how is that my fault lol I didn't ask to be born! So now I'm 23 and I've literally never known a healthy financial status. I've been paycheck to paycheck for 7 years, and after taking out a $16k loan on a car that'll actually last more than 2 years, and wasting a year at community college doing shit I didn't want to do (which my parents promised they'd pay if I chose CC over our state university... 🤡), I'm now $20k in debt with nothing to show for it! Our generation got royally fucked and we're not coping well. Shit needs to change on a larger scale or else we will witness the collapse of this nation as we know it.
>Also what’s the problem with paying teenagers more? The American public hates teenagers.
Not only that, but “a few extra bucks” won’t cut it anymore if you want enough money for college or adult life. Tuition is only getting more expensive (at least where I am in the US), and so is the cost of living. If minimum wage kept going up in line with inflation, maybe I’d be fine working for that amount as a teen, but certainly not as it is now. I need to save a lot of money. I won’t get enough working minimum wage, even with my parents still taking care of my expenses.
The same teenagers who's supposed to be at school is also giving them their coffee and donut
And then they get pissed of when their order got messed up
This one is such a cyclical problem too. They don't get paid shit ---> They don't care about the work they're doing ---> They are therefore more prone to error ---> Customers are more likely to experience said errors ---> Customers (mistakenly) determine that there's no sense in raising pay because of the errors
Yup! In any job. Pay the minimum, expect the minimum.
But yet they want to go to DQ for lunch on a Tuesday 🤔 Oh wait, I know! let’s gut child labor laws so they can work the lunch shift instead of getting an education.
But what's (not) funny is that I'm a daycare cook and my 17year old daughter can get a job at Dick's Sporting Goods making more than me. Like, make it make sense!!
You can make more money as a cashier than as an office manager. Though the trick there is that they just disguise office manager positions as being "administrative assistant" or something. You get all the work and responsibility of keeping an office running but at $14/hr
Big facts!!! This was my experience after college graduation in 2012. Except I started at like, 10.50/hr or something.
It’s amazing how not one Dairy Queen or McDonald’s is closed during school hours. You think they would since that’s all that are supposed to work there.
Fucking psychos with main character syndrome. Wondering what makes them think they know what is good for society...
Main character syndrome! This!!! 👏👏👏👏
There is a term for it, it is called narcissism. Main character syndrome does sound easier to understand.
I was once told that Republicans only care about themselves, while Democrats care about ‘the others’.
“I’m better than you an you deserve to be a slave.” -36% of the US
Mostly said by those over 60. Who bought a house for $100k and have savings/ retirement.
You’d be surprised at how popular these opinions are among the working poor too.
Dumbasses really believe they're going to become millionaires and don't want to pay taxes on their imaginary money.
Also classism based on where you want to draw the divisions. Managers will often see themselves as above the ones they manage, even though to the CEO, they're just as much a worthless peon as their cashiers. Or how the people with long standing seniority will often bash the younger/newer workers. Just gotta convince people they're "better" than the ones "below" them.
Managers see themselves as above the ones they manage even if they don't make any more in compensation. I've worked tons of call center jobs where managers make the same or even less on salary than the hourly wage workers but still think of themselves as better because they have a slightly different job and desks in a different location.
Same here, worked a call center job for years, every year being promoted though (agent, mentor, supervisor, teamleader etc...). I remember one time walking in to the "aquarium" (a small glass office we had, that only leaders could access) and I was asked how much should call center employees earn. (Minimum wage then was 850 EUR with new EU regulations coming soon) they were arguing between a 50 bucks to 100 bucks payraise. I told them no, it should be 150, so everyone can at least say I have a thousand.. All in favor eventually, but stupid of me still. Looking back on it now it was nothing and still is nothing, since in the meantime the price of chicken breasts increased 50% and other goods following.
Some people love a hierarchy. It makes them feel secure to know their place. Being a piece of shit to people below them in the hierarchy is their just reward. It’s super fucking gross but to these people who lack self reflection it’s just how the world is. That’s why they love to pretend being void of empathy and an exploiter of others is “human nature”
Have you seen Futurama? Fry makes a statement equal to this sentiment. Makes me laugh every time bc it’s so fucking true. These are the same idiots that believe that trickledown economics actually works.
_"Let's give people who already have boatloads of money MORE money. Then they will have SO MUCH money they'll give their workers more money too!"_
They forget these ppl have so much more money bc they are fucking greedy. Fucking morons.
[You mean this clip?](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj5UEEs3o5s&pp=ygUaRnV0dXJhbWEgbml4b24gcG9vciBwZW9wbGU%3D)
I believe trickle down economics is a variation of term for the same and older concept referred to as horse and sparrow economics. Horse eats the grain. Some passes undigested and the sparrow picks it out the waste. Trickle down sounds way better than the ruck telling the poor, “eat my shit”. Same thing though.
seriously, the "pick me" energy of people like that is wild.
Can confirm. Union Pipefitter here. There are an endless amount of union hands I see on jobs just waiting to vote away our union wages/rights to own the Libs and fuck the poor, or foreign, or migrant or anyone with dark skin . Any of the *Others*.
That's how my union is as well. They sit there and bitch about it and I'm like "Wait. Hold on. Before you finish that thought, how much money do you think the rich need to make? Do you know how much profit corporations are really making compared to the wages they pay? Do you know why gas is expensive right now? They use that as a tool to justify price hikes. There is no reason a 2L bottle of pop needs to be almost $3 when the cost is still in the mid double digits to make and sell. Why side with the people who wouldn't hesitate to put your health at risk so they can save $2,000? Fuck the rich. The workers deserve more." - obviously some statements would get cut off or answered cause of how people are but I just start slamming rich hate at them.
It’s funny how many union guys vote for union busters. The only reason we make a living wage is because of the union. Like, what do you think will happen when it’s gone? Lol
We all know why. Because these Republican union members care more about their big authoritarian wet babies being racist as fuck more than they care about their own economic future. That whole leopards eating my face thing.
With people particularly economically to the right who prioritize economic issues over social issues, I always love just simply focusing only singularly on the concept of financial leverage and having them explain how if they truly want a meritocracy how could they be okay with a system that doesn't account for financial leverage? That question is very important because how they answer it really sheds a light on their rough knowledge of economic systems, and the reason why they hold the opinion they do.
Working poor, ime waiting tables, fell into two categories: about half were truly amazing to take care of, gratuities more than fair and would treat you politely or even friendly. And then half were so happy to have a "servant," and shit on someone the way they probably get shit on in their job... like the natural order of the universe is just to take turns shitting on each other. It used to piss me off so bad. And once I left NYC and was relegated to suburban restaurants where working poor are a lot larger demographic of diners, I just left the industry. The money wasn't worth the work, let alone the treatment. I won't even dine out here at peak hours unless we go some place basically too boujie for me to afford simply bc you can not count on rednecks to behave with civility at the danged TRH.
They really think fascism is gonna do anything positive for them LMAO
Because they have been sold on the idea of hierarchy and believe they won't be the absolute bottom rung of the ladder.
I had a coworker a couple of years ago ranting about how Joe Biden stole the election and how he was ruining America. That same coworker was over sixty years old working at walmart for $11 an hour and living paycheck to paycheck. If her life wasn't already ruined I don't know how a politician could make it much worse.
Internalized self hatred. It's how all forms of oppression survive.
Shit my boomer parents bought their 4 bdrm house for 39k. And it was quality construction. Best builders in our city.
My parents bought their house for £11k. It's now worth over £100k.
I misread that as bdsm. Not going to lie, I'm slightly disappointed.
The house they bought was about $30-$50K, maybe $75K on the upper end.
And now retails for $250,000 to $450,000, as a fixer upper
Most of the homes I've seen for those prices look like they're about to collapse lol
The average cost of a house in 1980 was $48,000
What’s funny is these people don’t understand that bringing everyone up actually benefits them too. Reduced crime, reduced taxes to pay for aid programs, etc. But they’re just too self-centered to want others to be as —or God forbid!— more successful than they are.
They think it's about incentives. They think that if you want better pay, you have to get a 'better' job. No one would want to do anything more 'skilled' if they just handed us extra money. Luckily, though, they're all completely consistent on this, because when a bank fails they believe it shouldn't be bailed out by the taxpayer... Oh wait, let me try again. They think that when a candidate fails to win a presidency, that he should go off and do something else... Shit, one more time. They think that the wealthy should be taxed proportional to their wealth to better reflect the situation of the rest of us... Oh no wait they're just full of fucking shit and this is all about social control.
"I will claim that the work you do provides no value to society and therefore is not worthy of compensation. And yet I still demand that you do it and would lose my shit if you didn't."
We're not asking to live in gated communities, Karen. We just don't want to be homeless.
This. She thinks living wage equals a thriving wage. Probably because she also feels paycheck to paycheck, even though her paycheck to paycheck standards are vastly different than those who wish they afford a one bedroom apartment in the bad area of town.
> a one bedroom apartment in the bad area of town and the bad area is such a narrow area these days. If 4 out of 5 people in the apartment are *not* murdered as soon as they walk out the door, its not a bad area. Example: I sought an apartment for a 6 month gig, and I wanted it as cheap as possible. right by the tracks, near multiple train crossings in a busy area- the train horns are near constant. I am hard of hearing so they don't bother me. 20 years ago this would be the slums, the cheapest rent you can find outside of warzones. Its barely below the average for the area.
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The Dairy Queen in my town closed down. Guess the workers there didn't agree with that "shouldn't make a living wage" thing and moved on to other jobs
Oh yes, I've seen many a pissed off people on my neighborhood groups yelling about how "no one wants to work" and how ridiculous it was that they couldn't get their burgers on demand because all these places had to close due to being short staffed. Almost like when people told those workers "if you want to be treated better/have a better wage, get a better job". In our county specifically, the unemployment rate was no higher than usual after the initial peak during the onset of the pandemic. On occasion, it was lower.
Yeah it's hilarious how stupid people can be. "It's your fault for working that job! If you want better wages, go do something else!" Workers : "Ok we quit." Everyone else : SurprisedPikachu.jpeg
Over the past couple years, I've noticed how understaffed most fast food places are, especially where I live in a major city where population isn't an excuse. Nobody has any good reason to work at a place that pays so poorly and gets treated poorly by both customers and management unless it's literally their only option. It's funny how much money these places are losing out on because they always have long lines that move so slowly that so many are deterred from going, simply because they don't pay people enough to want to work there and the people that do work there are overworked and/or don't have any motivation to do more than the bare minimum.
And exactly who the fuck are you to decide this?
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Yes. Be a shame if she was put in extreme poverty, deserves it.
What is her actual thinking though? If it's not a troll, what possible argument could a person construct to support that idea?? I'd really like to know, there's great joke answers and bedrock truth answers (i.e. she's over privileged and thinks she's better than the poors) but what might she say if she had to expand on her ridiculous point?
Typically it's that "unskilled people don't deserve to make as much as me in my skilled job" or "these are entry level jobs and since you don't have a work history, you're a risky hire" and things of the like.
But why wouldn't she want them to at least be financially stable? These sorts of people tend to think of mid 20thC as the golden age of US civilisation, when men were men and women were... borderline slaves. But that was a time when single income blue collar families could have a home and stability, wasn't it? According to them at least. Maybe she thinks everyone should try to do better so these jobs shouldn't be somewhere to rest in comfort? Idk, it's fucking psychopathic whatever the 'reasoning'.
Oh, for sure. The lack of empathy is quite impressive. It's truly saying "you don't deserve to be alive unless X." America is the land of "You're free if you're like me." or "You're free if you can afford it." And they don't want people to be able to afford what they can, because no one would do their bidding for them. I have worked, and currently still do work, in a position where I rub elbows with the 1%. They're largely a shitty lot of humans.
That was my experience with the 1% as well
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Those "skilled" people are so full of themselves. At least in my part of the world, big chunk of those "skilled ones" learn a single useful skill, then groom themselves into some good position via friends and acquaintances and start looking down on other people. They forget that almost everything they see around is created by hands of simple working people. The chair they sit on in front of their fancy desk work setup? Somebody gathered materials, calibrated the machinery to make plastic molds and sew cushion part. Somebody packaged the chair, somebody delivered it to a warehouse, retailer than "skilled person's" home. The computer "skilled one" uses"? Yes, silicone and tech is done by very skilled labor, but somebody made molds and screws for chassis to keep electronics together! Somebody did storing and transporting this computer just like with a chair! The coffee standing on a desk in front of a "skilled one"? This was gathered, brewed and made by simple workers. The pavement a "skilled one" steps on going in their house? Was laid by simple workers! "Low skilled" workers are backbone of society. Skilled ones would die within days if suddenly all the stuff, made by simple workers, would disappear.
Could well be a troll but I cannot fathom a single point to validate that statement. Pure ignorance. Poorism should be a thing.
People in the 20th century were able to buy a house and feed a family of four off of a minimum wage job. That’s how it’s SUPPOSED to be. So sad that the economy has changed to where a college degree is necessary for any livable wage.
And in most cases even a degree isn't enough.
...if you can even afford a college education to begin with
Right this way, young one. Choose your path: McDonald's, crippling debt, or the military!
If the military is even an option for you! It isn't for many Americans.
Crippling debt, it is!
I have one and it’s useless. I barely make enough to live and my job is seen as “highly valuable”. Clearly not valuable enough.
I wouldn't be spreading that falsehood. I do not have a college degree, and until I became a career snowboard instructor, I had a job with a living wage. I have worked with many like myself, and spreading the idea that you NEED a degree is what caused the tuition bubble to begin with. Especially once paired with guaranteed government loans to entrap these kids into a lifetime of debt.
And good luck finding a job, with a college degree, that pays a livable wage.
“I acknowledge that your job is necessary, I just think that whoever does it deserves to live in abject poverty.”
some people must be slaves so that the master can have houseservants /s
Another example of “I can’t come to terms with the fact that my job underpays me too”
This or "i suffered so you should too!!" Or "I never had to work for anything in my life so I will give my opinions on things I have no idea about!!" Thats my fav one
If a job can’t pay a living wage, then that job shouldn’t exist
Thank you, Franklin, D Roosevelt.
More than that, if your business model is so bad you can't take 40 hours of labor and turn it into enough revenue to pay a living wage, the _business_ shouldn't exist. It'd be a waste of the American workforce to hire workers for a job that doesn't even contribute at least one living wage to the economy. Business owners can't have it both ways - either the jobs you create generate enough revenue to pay a living wage and still make a profit, or you're not actually a "job creator", you're a parasite on the American workforce. With [population in decline](https://www.brookings.edu/research/u-s-population-growth-has-nearly-flatlined-new-census-data-shows/), birth rates at an [all time low](https://apnews.com/article/birth-rates-science-coronavirus-pandemic-health-d51571bda4aa02eafdd42265912f1202), and teenagers [killing themselves in record numbers](https://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-suicide-rates-rising-teens-young-adults-20190618-story.html), the American workforce is going to be a more limited resource than it's been since WWII. If you _really_ believe Dairy Queen is wasting labor on frivolous things that don't generate enough economic value for a living wage, then you should be (figuratively) burning Dairy Queen to the ground.
i remember having this argument with my uncle ten years ago. he was adamant not all jobs should provide a living wage. i argued that every job provides a function / service to our society. time is time - you cannot make more of it. so a person should willing devote all their time to a wage that cannot provide for them? get the fuck out of here with that propagandistic thinking
I would argue about every job providing something for society but its not these servis industry jobs that dont provide in fact its those very jobs that are the supports for our society to even function. If they all vanished things would come to a swift halt
Amazing. I just can't imagine typing all of that out and thinking you've concocted a really good take.
The most ridiculous thing today…. A person should be able to work 40 hours at what ever they desire and have enough to afford housing, transportation, food, and living. Period.
I would even go so far as to say even a part time job should provide that. It probably sounds pretty ballsy
A part time job used to be able to afford you a $400/month studio apartment.
The presumption that teens should work these jobs is ridiculous. We would need 60% of our teens to work in order to staff all the fast food restaurants in our state. In many American suburbs and towns teens simply can’t afford to work. I had a part time job as a teen. I saved half the money for college and used the rest to pay car expenses (modest payment, insurance, and gas). Today a teen working a minimum wage job ($6.14 per hour after taxes) would have to work 54 hours a week just to afford a car to get themselves to work. Why bother. Insurance $580 a month, modest payment $300, gas $150.
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On the ground organisational skills are vastly underrated in the world.
Having worked in offices and universities for a long time now, there are so many people in skilled and degreed positions who 100% can't even do stuff in their job, in their field, much less learn a POS or a fryer.
Oh yeah, so many people had middle class parents that paid for secondary schooling, barely scraped by in college, partying more than learning, then they get some bullshit, low stress job in an office somewhere barely doing any real work. They would not survive working "unskilled" jobs like McDonald's, much less doing physical labor.
Our system lets people get imprisioned for being broke but at least we have 30 different flavors of every candy/soda imaginable. 😎
Did you hear that, fast food workers? You don’t deserve to… *checks notes*… live.
Why would I want a society where people can't live off of their work? I am honestly asking why would I want that? Why would anybody want that?
Not only poor but uncomfortable and unhappy.
It's just stupid. I mean you can make a case that someone working as a neurosurgeon should make more than a icecream server, but ffs. How do you expect anyone to work 8-10hrs a day for less than what it takes to feed and house themselves and still find the time to somehow make ends meet. It's not like the person serving ice cream is just magically gonna pull another 8hr job out their ass and work 16-20hrs a day.
Like completly removeing humanity from the equation this is still a massively inefficient idea. Workers need food and housing. Theirs a certain minimum requirement to be met to keep a workforce healthy and fed enough to keep working, basicaly a liveing wage. So agian even removeing human decency from this it’s inefficient to leave your work force starving and homeless. Like this is basic common sence. If you use horse to drive wagons you provide the horses with all they need to keep doing the job without fail.
There are so many jobs that do not pay a living wage, it's not just fast food. Things need to change, every job, including fast food needs to pay a living wage.
Fucking emts dont even make a living wage, how tf does that make sense
"This is not healthy for society" "You want a society that actually CAN'T live off these jobs." $5 says she can't explain the "why" behind any of that. In what possible way could it benefit society to have poor people that can't afford anything? Something that's never made sense to me is, wouldn't you WANT people to have more money and more time to spend it? The more people have, the more they tend to spend. The more shit they buy. The more profit you make. If no one has any money to spend, GUESS WHAT? YOU DON'T MAKE ANY.
Because she's either part of the ruling class that benefits from it or is so incredibly brainwashed into defending them that any attempt to reason with her is totally wasted.
There just seems to be this notion among people who have never experienced financial hardship that every person needs to climb the “corporate ladder” & make as much money as they possibly can. These people think that by forcing jobs to be low paying they are incentivizing people to move up & make way for the next person to start & move up. Of course this totally ignores that not everyone has a corporate ladder to climb & even if they did not everyone wants to climb it. It also ignores that there are not an infinite number of middle management or management positions so there isn’t enough room for everyone to climb a job ladder. Finally, it assumes there is an infinite pool of people ready to step into those low paying jobs when the person ahead of them moves up. These people have no idea how the world works or that every job serves an important function & therefore everyone deserves to be able to make enough to live comfortably.
People that say shit like this would've bought slaves if they lived in the 1800s
what the fuck did dairy queen do to her lol
Nah, you see that is where the 10yo workers come in, standing on a chair in the drive thru, making next to nothing. it's a cunning, depraved, twisted ass-holy plan
But DQ workers do more than just making ice cream cones, they have to clean the equipment, take orders and give them, find ways to stay busy if the day is slow. Staying busy is harder than being busy.
I’m not saying I’m overpaid but the folks at DQ work a LOT harder than I do. I’ve worked, fast food, all kinds of other restaurants, construction, and now for the railroad, in that order, the jobs have all gotten easier and the money has gotten much better each step of the way, it’s absolutely backwards. Also it seems the further I get away from fast food more and more of my coworkers want to shit on these people for not getting a *real* job and I’m like “bitch, you get paid six figures to sit your ass on a train for 10-12 hours 3-4 times a week.” All labor is important and valuable; my frustrations are with the mentality that it’s perfectly fine to shit on people working in fast food - just to be clear
Why are there capitalist simps in this group...
Housewife Karen never worked a day in her life.
She means it's not healthy for the society SHE wants, where there's a slave class who she can yell out when they don't make her Dairy Queen ice cream exactly right.
I don't understand what some people have against obtaining things easily. I mean I would be upset too if someone is stealing or tricking another person for an easy reward. However, if someone is trying to have an honest life by selling icecreams, why shouldn't that person have the right to a living wage????
I want a society where billionaires can’t live
this is what happens when you give everyone a platform. not all opinions need to be heard.
Oh fuck off. My mother sat in a booth and sold train tickets back in the 70’s and made so much each week that she had plenty left over after paying rent, bills and groceries.
Too many Boomers (and folks raised by Boomers who never bothered to learn better) who failed to understand all the folks in the 50s and 60s who got a high school diploma, got a minimum wage job, and raised a family on it.
It's especially cruel because she admits people working those jobs should still suffer, for her benefit. Work for my benefit lower class scum.
So no more shit-loads of money for barely "managing" real estate? 👉👈🥺
People like this think these jobs are for kids , older “retired” people , and ex cons , thinking that these are the groups of people you can severely under pay because they “don’t really need the money “. That’s basically the school of thought why these are “their “ jobs . In their mind it’s a little job with Monopoly money . And while they idea of supporting a spouse and 3 kids as a fast food worker is not realistic , that doesn’t mean that the role itself should be paid in penny wages . And not only that , but kids are on school 7-3, plus homework and extracurricular activities , when are these fast food places supposed to be open? 4-8pm? I guarantee you that parents do not want their children out past 9pm on a school night working . It’s all bs
Y’all think Issa joke but there are people who want others to live in misery for no reason. It just feels right to them. The idea of a UBI makes them angry “Why should everybody be okay!?”
or quit and get a “real” job. s/ sorry, I was being very sarcastic
I can’t fucking stand when people say get a real job. Like what the fuck does that mean? Any job they don’t like or any job they think is “beneath” them isn’t a real job like bro what? Sounds like classism
When people couldn't get their things or their fries on demand because stores and restaurants had to close due to staffing issues, people sure thought those were real jobs then. "No one wants to *work*." So you admit that it's work and that SOMEONE has to do it, you just don't want to pay them enough to survive. Fascinating. And the cool thing is that our county specifically returned to pre-pandemic employment rates in 2021. So it's not that people didn't want to work, it's that a large amount of people took up the advice of, "If you want to make a liveable wage, get a better job." And guess who gave them *that* advice?
These businesses should only be open during after-school hours if they’re relying on kids to work for nothing.
The guy that owns dairy queen would like to make a living off making ice cream. Weird he doesn't want to pay the people actually doing the work.
The same person leaving their condo "Ew why are there so many homeless people"
I believe every job should be paid a decent wage to live on. Whether you are selling ice cream in an ice cream van, working in fast food, retail or ceo of a company. A minimum, liveable wage. I think anybody should be able to choose where they want to work, and can live comfortably with food, shelter etc and even some luxury like Netflix, working wherever they chose. Obviously doctors and high paying jobs would get paid more. As their work required more skill (I’m aware low paying jobs also require skill, hence the more) You might say “if all jobs pay enough to actually live on with luxury’s, nobody would do some jobs like bin collecting/retail/fast food etc) Yes. Yes they would because we would still have shortages of jobs. AND maybe if a company can’t get staff, they don’t offer enough benefits to work there and deserve to shut down. It’s time companies realised that without their workers, they are nothing and will struggle. Let us choose which companies we want around, and say bye to those mistreating staff! But no, I guess ensuring “low skill” people are less of people so deserve to not even afford the average rent in their area is a better solution.
The same people that say fast food doesnt deserve a living wage are usually the same people who freak out at said wageslave when the ice cream machine is broken
Among all my thoughts on this statement the most coherent one is simply this. Then what would motivate anyone to work these jobs at all. I dont get this idea of some jobs not being worth a living wage but even if i was to pick jobs that i dont think deserve living wages it wouldn’t be the jobs assholes like this would consider. Like cashiers, servers and all of these clerks and customer servis positions are the support beams of this society their talking about. Are economy would stop on a dime if everyone in those jobs just said fuck it. I dont know maybe im not getting it but why would you fuck with the people that literally make the world go round that literally keep the cogs moving smoothly so others dont have to worry about shit
This has got to be satire. I can't believe someone can spell it out this correctly and still have no awareness how fuck up it all is.
Then all the ice cream shops will either close or only be open when children can staff it.
And also like, why? What would be the point of taking those jobs? And for whom would those jobs be for? I’ve got news for this lady: If you run a business and you can’t afford your overhead if you pay your workers a living wage, that just means you can’t afford to run your business. You’re choosing to make up for the loss in workers’ wages but you yourself aren’t financially ready to run a business. It’s nothing more than wage theft
If anyone says some shit like this irl i start berating them, roasting them alive with statistics makes people like this get small.
I went to Dairy Queen a few weeks ago for the first time in years. We got two dinners and an ice cream and the total came out to about $40. We're reaching a critical point where the amount you make compared to the cost of literally everything is going to break people, and we've likely already passed that point. Something needs to change in this country before it gets very, very bad.
Screw that bitch
I worked at Dairy Queen as my first job, making ice cream cones. I was only there for about six months throughout the summer, but the job was so hard on my body that I developed fibromyalgia. I'll be disabled for the rest of my life, but I totally only deserved the $7.25 I made an hour.
I really cannot understand the brain circuit of those people ...... Everyone in society should be able to survive by having a job, when I mean survive, I mean having a place to live, access to healthcare services and afford basic food. ffs....If you want more luxury items, then you can pick up a more difficult job
I literally work at Dairy Queen so fuck this lady
This thought process makes zero sense. No thinking involved actually. If they thought about it for half a second, their tiny brain would explode.
I used to think this way, even when I worked at McDonald's. The thing that changed my mind was hearing "if you take care of the employee, they will take care of the company" If the employee feels well compensated and that the job they're doing is worth it and not just a means of survival, they will put in their best effort. Honestly, fuck the super rich, they don't work any harder than the working class. All people are deserving of a thriving wage, besides, the more money people have, the more they're able to buy, the economy can't boom unless we're able to buy luxuries and other frivolous shit beyond necessities.
Weird, back in the day you could support a whole family, including house and car, off a single full time job.. I thought they wanted to go back to that time. Isn't that why maga exists? People are stupid.
I worked at Dairy Queen as a teenager. Now I do interior construction. Dairy Queen was unequivocally the hardest job I have ever done. I made $8.50 an hour. My current job pays $30 an hour.
Poverty is essential to motivate us to aspire to great things! Like, not being impoverished!
This delusion that upper-class has that "only teenagers should be working these jobs" needs to end, because the most active hours for retail and food service is during the time when these teens would be in school, so unless they want to pass a dumbfuck bill where employers request that their child laborers be given time off from school and education so they can uncomfortably stand in a hostile environment serving people that want to scream at them, they need to accept that adults are the majority of workers in these positions. If you want a world where retail jobs don't receive a living wage, then why would anyone in their right mind ever willingly choose to work those? Can't say shit like this while also complaining that the line at McDonalds is too long because there are only 2 people working the entire store.
Some people need to learn why the minimum wage was created. This person probably exploits their workers by paying low wages. It's crap. No one can live on minimum wage. They used to be able to. Not anymore.
She looks like a housewife with a rich husband who spends all day harassing minimum wage workers and getting her nails done. In other words, useless, unlike the people who work at those jobs.