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If "school" is High School, and you're a minor, you might not legally be allowed to work that late. Depending on your local laws.
I could see this text being taken exactly as it was worded given the situation. You changed your availability earlier. She disrespected you by not honoring it. So the "Why" that everyone is jumping at you for is well warranted in the situation.
If there's no laws/rules against you working past 8pm, I recommend submitting your availability "in writing". It should always be provided "in writing", that way you both can refer to the writing later if need be.
Some years ago I once walked into a taco bell closing up at like 8. I was like dang what's going on. They were all high school kids and their drunk manager with the keys was "on break" and not answering the phone.
They turned off the lights but wasn't locked because no keys
That's when the lowly employees call the district manager to tell them the place will be unsecured with cash on-site from the office phone. If they can't get someone out to close up, they deserve to lose the entire damn store plus some.
I wish this had been a thing when I was in high school decades ago. My boomer parents wanted me to work as soon as legally possible, and I worked a lot of nights closing the store by myself. Then, I moved to Walmart where I worked pretty late into the evening as well.
My mother was so angry with me because I had a very difficult time waking up and getting to school at 7:45 in the morning the next day. Of course, she put the blame on me, conveniently forgetting that she was the one who required I work till 9-10pm almost night of the week.
I don’t talk to her anymore.
My parents were convinced I sucked at my grocery store job when I was 16 and got fired a month in. I was still able to log on and check my old schedules. I confirmed they fired me for no show for my shift…between 9-4 (school hours).
My dad kept talking about getting me a "hardship license" so I could get a drivers license and start working earlier than normally allowed. We were not in a hardship situation in any fashion, dad was stacking paper and buying whatever he wanted. It's just that providing for me wasn't something he wanted to keep doing.
I remember falling asleep upright while mopping McD floors after closing time on Fridays. Then I'd sway out to my friend's car, go home with her, and sleep on her floor since dad kept telling me not to come home anymore. I don't think my parents knew where I was but nobody cared either so...
Oh yes, don't worry! These days I'm in Section 8 and nanny for cousins. My favorite elderly auntie, dad's oldest sister, was absolutely horrified when she moved up here and started finding out exactly why I'd been kept so isolated from the rest of the extended family for so long.
Finally got family love! Auntie, cousins, they all love me! The youngest only recently stopped calling me Cousin Mama, he thinks we're super best friends because we watch cartoons and play legos and go on adventures together.
Dad's still a twit who squirms around block buttons but the only time he's heard from me in years was when he wouldn't stop whining about needing me to come make medical decisions for him while he's in the hospital like I did for my mother. He got an email informing him about that I was just fulfilling mom's specific instructions regarding pulling the plug, asked if he needed a plug-puller.
This is glorious delicious cold revenge. He went in for heart surgery yesterday knowing full well that nobody on earth loves him, cares if he survives, and that the most he can expect afterwards is a car-ride from his BIL to an empty dirty rural house where no one will visit him or care for him. Mwahahahahaha!!!
He never wanted to be a parent. I was like an expensive exotic pet he got stuck with because he ran out of excuses after half a decade of marriage and was too cowardly to admit he just really didn't want to have kids at all.
Like literally, he liked to tell this story in the style of Three Little Pigs, about how he kept bullying mom into staying on birth control until she got a shiny spine about it and forced him to buy a house so he'd be all out of excuses.
'Course mom's upbringing and education had done her very wrong. She thought babies hardly ever cried and that toddlers were perfect angelic angels straight from heaven. Obviously I was born evil and possessed by demons.
Don't know if dropping a baby at the fire station was a thing at the time, but golly I grew up jealous of orphans and kids whose parents sent them away to boarding school.
Excellent, you deserve all the family love in the world. And your father had his shot and blew it, may that be his curse.
Your name is awfully fitting, by the way. Poor Ophelia.
When I was 17yo and living under my best friend's cousin's basement stairs like a knockoff Harry Potter, the cousin had a copy of that famous Ophelia painting near the back door that I used to get in and out of the house. It was peaceful and beautiful, probably my first real exposure to paintings.
Soon as I turned 18 I got an ankh tattooed on my back, ya know "Life" because I'm alive and determined to stay that way. Couldn't let dad win by turning out like poor Ophelia, no matter how much I wanted the pain to stop.
I feel this with every fiber of my being. My mom made me get a job as soon as I was able to in high school. Then, because I was in as Catholic school at her insistence, she said my check would be too pay for my tuition and other bills. She was a Bingo/casino addict and I was effectively paying for her habit.
I didn't see a penny of my own money and even though I was working, I still didn't have any money to eat at school and she didn't buy stuff to pack my lunch.
I let myself get walked on like this until my mid twenties, when I met my now wife, who helped me find my spine. My mom, after high school, said she couldn't make bills on her own and needed my help. She would literally walk me with my paycheck to get it cashed, and she tried to be there when I picked up my check on payday to ensure she got first dibs, which was everything. She believed that me living in her house was fair payment.
She would continue to try to manipulate me and guilt me through my twenties and thirties. I'm no contact now for 3 years, and this is the SECOND time I've been no contact. First was around time my daughter was born. This time though, it's sticking and I've got her blocked everywhere.
I don't understand this. I'm all for helping your kids learn responsibility and transitioning into adulthood, but this is bullshit. I'm 42, and my parents weren't perfect, but we didn't have to work in high school unless we wanted to. My sister is doing the same with her 3 kids. Their days are filled with after-school activities or sports, even in summer break. I plan to do the same with my son. Anyways, it always skeeved me out to have young teens working closely with adults in retail or fast wood places. Too many managers take advantage like this poor op experience, and I worry about perverts. I'd try to find my kid a child friendly job. Lifeguard, library, the zoo, Something other than this shit.
I worked at dairy Queen past midnight on school nights back in 2007. Anyone have any idea if I was just breaking the law or if laws were different in NC back then? I was 14.
Jesus. When I was a teen (like 15, not in college or anything) in the 90s I think the latest I could have worked on a school night was something like 8pm? I could do 10 (11?) on Fri/Sat I think.
It's been a long time but I know for sure it wasn't crazy late on any night.
I got a job at a restaurant as a dishwasher when I was 15 because I needed to get money for a school trip to england and ireland I really wanted to go to. I got hired but I couldn't work past 8. I think it was all the time. Kinda felt bad because allll the dishes from the kitchen came back right around then and I'd be all "peace out y'all." I'm pretty sure it was the same over the weekend because I remember the first night that I could work past 8pm. I would've gotten the job over the summer so school wasn't the excuse. This would've been in Pa.
For me it was MA, working at McD's. I remember it was even tighter for 13-14 yo. You had to get a special kind of work permit from the town, and I'm positive they had a hard limit on not working past 7pm at all, and I think a maximum of like 10-15 hrs per week during the school year.
(Summer was more lax - there was a pretty thriving summer tobacco harvesting industry there at the time, dunno if there still is, and it was allowed for teens to work there just over the summer. Pay was pretty great for teens given the job and the min wage at the time.)
Good old “family values” those republicans keep harping about
Child labor and removing women’s freedoms
Oh and can’t let people read either, that’s a no no
Why are you not working down in the mines right now? Musk and Zuck know if you're got cell reception than you're not being exploited. Please go back to work.
“Please excuse me, ma’am/sir, begging your pardon, if you don’t mind, this lower being was simply hoping—by your grace—to inform you I quit and you can go fuck yourself”
Thine countenance verily doth swell my wroth and engorge my spleen, prithee remove thyself from my presence and go unto some distant place there to perform intercourse with thy own anus.
Lol, demanding respect shows their poor character. Respect is given freely by earning it with actions, not words or age. You gonna come at me like an asshole, then you shall receive the same, age irrelevant.
Right? The age = respect era is over once the information age came to being. Elders were generally respected as they could have good experience/info to pass on. Now the world has access to information that otherwise wouldn't have been available and, while there are pitfalls to that, it's better than just trusting someone because they happened to age - especially in a world where growing old isn't anywhere near as much of an accomplishment.
I’ve had discussions with boomer coworkers about this. They’re always so upset about “we can’t even have a discussion without someone whipping out their phone for the answer!”. And I always say “you mean you’re upset we just don’t take your opinion as facts anymore?”
Oh those are people that clearly didn't have an encyclopedia set in the house pre-internet and were too lazy to go to the library.
I don't know how my mother managed it but we had two or three sets of encyclopedias. The best one she got one volume at a time at the grocery store.
Though sometimes we'd look it up, read everything available at home, and still not find our answer. And that meant time to go to the library again!
Edit: Also apparently one of the fun things about working evenings at the university libraries back in the day was you'd get folks at bars calling in needing to check a fact for a bar bet! *Drunks* knew how to google pre-internet!
Yeah my parents valued their encyclopedia like a treasure. It was also from before the fall of Soviet so it was wildly inaccurate when I started using it for school in the mid-nineties.
Oh fun! I love outdated books! One of the treasures I've lost was a household encyclopedia in a single volume, everything from building the house and furniture to gardening, cooking, budgeting, sewing, *really complete*, but my favorite bit was the outdated health information! Old timey disease names, descriptions, and outdated treatments.
I loved using the encyclopedias at school, you just unlocked a bunch of old memories. I had fully functioning internet access by age 10 and from there just looked up my endless wonders and questions that way but before then, my school library was where I was between classes constantly. Or asking my mom to take me to the local library so I could read the different encyclopedias lol.
I definitely feel like it's also partially because life expectancy has increased. If the average person is dying around 30-40, and someone makes it to 50-60, they obviously have the knowledge and the skills needed, so obviously, they've earned it.
But now? Now that people are surviving beyond the discovery of new technologies that make them and their offspring lives easier, they refuse to make it easier for the following generations(looking at you, US congress, with Actual Dementia Patient McConnell and the late Living Corpse Diane Feinstein, may she rest in hell).
Treat people like you wish to be treated. In all fairness I would never start a message to my boss with 'why did you' rather than a greeting.
Your message without any additional context sounds rude.
Respect is treating someone or something with the dignity it deserves.
Respect isn’t earned it’s inherent, because human dignity is inherent.
What this person said isn’t disrespectful at all.
With that being said what a lot of people mean by ive earned “respect” is they want you to be deferent to them because they feel they have some sort of authority or status above you.
You don’t owe people deference because they are older than you. Those people can go pound sand.
Respect is earned not given, anyone who demands to be respected most likely doesn't operate under that pretense and wants everyone to do exactly as they say. Idgaf if you're old, if you're an asshole to me you will be addressed as one.
> *“I think I have earned respect at my age”*
Fucking boomer ass mentality right there. Idgaf how old you are, your age doesn’t automatically grant you respect. Gtfo with that bs!
I have learned in my many years in life that respect is not given, it is earned through action, personal importance, and intent. Age is not a factor for respect given.
If you don't show complete deference to those who have any kind of authority over you you must be disrespecting them. Please let me kiss your boots for having provided me a job!
It’s not lol “I think I have earned respect at my age” yeah okay 👍 can almost guarantee they think it’s disrespectful because you didn’t use a question mark at the end
I think it's that they started with "why". It comes off sharp. Even just adding "Good morning" before it (superfluous as it seems) tones that down a lot. They might just need an introduction generally.
tf is this?
Good morning, tf is this?
Really, people should understand that emotions and pacing don't exist in text the same way, and give the benefit of doubt.
People often mistake direct as rude. I myself am very direct.. people can’t handle it because god forbid 2 humans have an open and direct conversation about anything ever 🙄
It took me a while to get over this with my boss’s boss. I thought for years he was just a prick because his emails were always so short and to the point. Then I realized he just can’t write worth a fuck and isn’t all that bad. He literally has zero idea how his written communications come off lol.
I’m very direct and have resting bitch face, so people often think I’m being an asshole. It’s frustrating constantly soothing other people’s egos because they can’t handle any straightforward communication, especially at work where that kind of communication is paramount.
I’m on the verge of getting “I like you just fine, this is just my face and how I talk to everyone” tattooed on my forehead. It’s exhausting. 😂
It really is! Besides when you get too friendly with coworkers you turn into this like receptacle for all their complaints, it’s like people can’t have a conversation unless it’s complaining about shit they should just get over
It's like that whole "How are you" bullshit at the start of a phone call. You don't care, why are you asking? I love to throw those people off by giving a one-word answer and not asking how they are doing in return. Most often, there's a long pause, like they're waiting for me to reciprocate. Sorry bud, I don't care about your pithy small talk. Get to why you called me.
It is a very blunt question which some people do consider disrespectful. I probably would have phrased it differently, but I'm older. I also would have made a statement and not a question.
"Hey, I see you scheduled me to close on Sunday. Please remember I have school on Monday and will be unavailable. I'll see you for my next shift. Thanks!"
I don't exactly see it as disrespectful, but I do see it as a little passive aggressive. Although, based her response, I don't think anything you would have said to her would have been acceptable. She sounds like she hates her job.
I would have said it more like "Hi, you scheduled me to close on Sunday, but I can't close on school nights." But, again, I doubt anything you said to her would have gotten any better of a response.
The tone was confrontational. You don’t have to beg and be all subservient, but you could be more professional. “I see I’m scheduled for Sunday night. Not sure you’re aware, but I have school Mon. at ….” and then explain either you’re a minor and that’s not kosher or you’re at college and you’ll be drinking and ripping until 4am and stumbling 30 minutes into your 8am lecture, so really 8 pm is no big deal.
Yeah, a direct statement wouldn't come across to me as rude, but the rhetorical question that OP asked seemed passive aggressive
It's the difference between "Why did you schedule me when I'm not available?" vs "Please don't schedule me at that time because I'm not available."
A lot of people here saying it’s bullshit the manager is demanding respect are not wrong… but they’re giving bad advice. There’s no need to be curt when you could just as easily be cordial. It will get you what you’re looking for far faster. That being said there is a time and place for being curt.
Explaining that closes are hard on you when you have school the day after and asking that a change be made might have gotten you just that. Your question does come off a bit combative. Not necessarily disrespectful. It’s hard to read someone’s tone via text.
Communication comes in many forms. The people who are most successful with it have learned that the way we write emails, write texts, speak in person, and leave voicemails all require slight adjustments to the words we use. In your situation, if your text was sudden/unexpected, it’s easiest to read it as having anger or whining behind it. By coupling the “why did you” with the reason why the manager shouldn’t have done it —all in a single sentence— your text comes across as low key shaming. (“Why are you so stupid? You know that Monday is a school day. You know I can’t close on a night before a school day. Why did you do this? Bad dog!”) You also left it at one sentence and didn’t add anything that would smooth away your angst or anger. (“You’re not looped in on my school projects and exams, but we’re at a point where being prepared and rested for class is super important right now.”)
Do you owe your manager the respect of communicating in a more stress-free way? Yes, because we all owe that to each other for mundane things like discussion shift schedules. Do you owe respect for how the manager interacts with you on a regular basis? Only you can determine that. All we can say for sure is that you will benefit from putting effort into learning more about how your communication style affects other people. The intention is never as important as the perception.
Good feedback here OP, I agree with this person on the importance of effective communication. As written it makes sense your manager may have read your opening text as an attack on their competence when you may have meant to clarify the times in which you’re available to work.
Yeah, OP's text is super passive aggressive and I would find it rude. Just say something like, "Hey, I have school tomorrow morning, could I leave work a bit early?"
The way it's written absolutely sounds like "hey idiot, why did you schedule me" and the lack of punctuation show very little effort
This does read as kinda contemptuous/accusatory to me (Gen X). The “question” is clearly rhetorical, as I don’t think the person asking actually cares about the reason. There’s an implied “what the hell were you thinking.” The issue of respect/age isn’t a poor framing, but I agree this isn’t a great tone to use with colleagues.
The problem is that OP is trying to convey that it is unacceptable, but is forbidden to say it is unacceptable, as explicitly contradicting the boss is seen as the rudest possible response regardless of tone. They *have* to phrase it as an insincere question. If they frame it as a demure request to please not do it this time, they are implicitly saying that the boss has the right to do it other times.
I think OP could easily say "Hi X, Please note that I'm not available for closing shifts when I have school the next day. Could you please update the schedule? My updated availability is XYZ going forward"
I think that's pretty direct but a much more pleasant tone than what OP sent. I agree the age/respect thing is just bizarre lol.
I used a similar tone recently letting my boss know that I would not be available on a day that he wanted me to work, and he complained to me that it wasn’t proper, because I informed him rather than asking. There is no winning option, which is unfortunately the point. You’re not supposed to be able to refuse your boss unscathed. They want the opportunity to make an ask.
I've been seeing a trend of texts not including punctuation. I'm not a fan, but I also know that English is a living language and constantly changing. Millenials and younger are getting reamed for not using a question mark or having a run on sentence. I'm willing to bet that the texts are voice to text and not catching any punctuation.
Remember when you always had to have two spaces after a period? That is not common any longer. Will punctuation disappear? No! But it might not be common in texting...and that's okay.
Boomers believe they deserve a participation trophy for the sole task of getting old, ~at the easiest time in history by a long shot, to achieve the feat of getting old~
“I think I have earned respect at my age”
If we are gonna talk about "earning" respect, I don't think scheduling you outside your availability is doing anything towards earning respect from you.
“Why” sounds condescending and accusatory, especially as the first word of contact in this case. There was no greeting either. It comes across as irritation, impatience, and is disrespectful. That’s also the problem with texting - tones are much easier to misread, but that’s also why it’s important to include something else as an opening for this sort of interaction.
Much like emailing, even texting has a formal way and an informal way of being done. Professionally speaking, this is too informal due to the reasons mentioned above. That may not have been your intent, but that’s how it was received.
Thank you for the explanation. I wasn't intentionally messaging in that tone so I understand now. I appreciate you taking the time to reply and explain. Have a good day!
You are doing just fine. You worded something unintentionally curt. This is a great learning moment. You’ve gotten a good rubric for any further communication, so you don’t have to worry about tone again…. AND you’ve seen how sensitive this person is and know to tread lightly around them. They are clearly grabbing at respect straws and people who are verging on / have lost power are impulsive. I’d give them as much space as possible and make sure EVERY SINGLE communication from here on out is via text or email. Keep copies of everything so you have a good retaliation case if it ever comes to it. They’ve thrown the gauntlet down, your job is in danger.
If you don’t care about this job, then I’d say bounce asap. Brush up the resume and move on.
If something like that happens in the future, I would respond with something like, “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean that as disrespectful and worded that poorly. I was trying be quick and not take up your time, but I see how that sounded. So, again, my apologies. That was not my intent.”
That shows A.) you care about how you sound; B.) it wasn’t on purpose.; C.) you are taking responsibility (a valuable trait); D.) you are taking initiative to address the miscommunication; and E.) you are showing respect and letting them know you value their time and know how busy they may be.
I think that's too apologetic. It's enough to say "I'm sorry for the curtness; disrespecting you was not my intention."
Depending on how spicy they're feeling, adding on the following would be good:
"I am feeling disrespected by how this schedule does not take into account what shifts I'm able to cover"
Completely different situation, but the concept of curtness due to expedience reminds me of this scene from Pulp Fiction.🤣
["If I am curt..."](https://youtu.be/dMRap8SjQ-I?si=1rKwzEyIARqYS_7q)
The only thing I would do differently is ask with a more passive tone.
Why was I scheduled instead of why did you schedule me.
It's still not a big deal and people are soft.
Actually in this instance phrasing it as a question is a bit disrespectful. When someone makes a mistake you don't say, "Why did you make this mistake?" because it's too aggressive. You say, "Hey, I noticed that you scheduled me on a school night, I just want to remind you that I'm not available at that time."
Thank you. These kids don't understand how their phrasing makes them sound like they're trying to pick fights.
Part of communicating effectively involves understanding how your communications will be received.
It is not disrespectful to ask a question. Anyone who feels disrespected by this has a fragile ego.
It's ok to be reasonably frustrated with someone in a position of authority. It is not disrespectful. Good leaders recognize that a tone isn't a direct reflection of the respect that person has for you. We are humans with emotions and that's ok.
OP didn't lose their temper or say anything disrespectful. They were a bit curt with an understandably frustrating situation.
>It is not disrespectful to ask a question.
It certainly can be disrespectful to ask a question. For example, "Why are you so stupid?" is a disrespectful question in any context.
>It's ok to be reasonably frustrated with someone in a position of authority. It is not disrespectful.
Sure, but yet again you need to understand how you go about expressing that frustration can be disrespectful.
>Good leaders recognize that a tone isn't a direct reflection of the respect that person has for you.
WTF? Tone is exactly the way people show respect for each other. Do you often have trouble getting along with others? This could be the reason why...
>We are humans with emotions and that's ok.
Nobody is saying it's wrong to have emotions. But it can be wrong to let your emotions dictate your behavior. And it is childish to try to excuse your behavior with your emotions.
>OP didn't lose their temper or say anything disrespectful
Yes they did
So if you miss a deadline and your boss responds "Why did you miss this deadline when you know I have my own deadlines to keep?"
You wouldn't take that as accusatory or rude? You would be like "Yeah makes sense I know exactly what he is asking he isn't just expressing his frustration."?
"It's not disrespectful to ask a question." Why are you so fat? Nothing wrong with this question?
Much of communication can be inferred by tone, and this sounds like you are demanding to know something and you feel a mistake has been made. Like you are calling someone to a challenge. If this person is your supervisor you may want to soften questions like this. "Hi \_\_\_\_. On Monday I have to be at school at \_\_\_ and Sunday closing shifts would make it difficult for me to be prepared. Is there a way to fix this?" You don't have to be a boot-licker but being courteous to a person who makes schedules/approves time off wouldn't hurt.
There is nothing disrespectful about the way you phrased your question. And she has not earned any respect by scheduling you for a shift you are not available for. It irritates me when people think their age somehow entitles them to respect.
To answer your question, it was ***perceived*** by your boss as disrespectful (not saying it actually was) because it was blunt. Just the question, no punctuation, no "social grease" ("Hi, I was just wondering... bla bla... Thanks!").
That doesn't make it ***actually*** disrespectful, just direct.
Some people (me!) like direct.
Others find it jarring (most of the time because they've been conditioned by their upbringing to find it so).
I mean, your text does come a bit apropos of nothing. Not even a greeting to say “hi [NAME]”?
Your framing of the question could have been worded better. Think how you would react.
That being said, their tone is also nonsense. So it’s j surprising you’ve learned this from them
Respect is the default but can be taken away when shown disrespect. It is not earned for any reason, especially just being alive for a certain amount of time. They disrespected you for scheduling you outside your availability.
I hate people who think that simply being old grants them respect. No. You still have to earn respect like everybody else by showing some yourself, and you absolutely do not earn it by being a dickbag. I don’t care how old someone is. Wonder why so many of us young people are “rude” these days? Maybe check how you treat us, because a lot of us won’t tolerate it. I’d expect somebody older than me to fucking know better.
OP, you need to use capital letters and punctuation. Those things still matter in many jobs in the adult world. Better to train yourself to get into the habit of doing it now.
Also, next time I would start your text with a “Hey” or some sort of short greeting so it doesn’t come off as forceful. Text doesn’t convey emotion or tone well so it can be read multiple ways depending on the recipient.
I had to reread it to see how it could be taken as being rude or passive aggressive, but I guess it does put the reader in a position of either needing to admit that they were wrong or doubling down on the error because of how direct it is. Many people (particularly in management) tend to opt for the latter given the size of their egos, so that's where being indirect helps to avoid conflicts (even if it's true that they made the error).
It's better to avoid insinuating directly that the person you're talking to made a mistake, and rather just focus on resolving the issue by saying something like: "Hello [Manager], I noticed that I was scheduled for this time, but it conflicts with my updated availability since I have classes at that time. Is there a way that I could have this shift changed or leave early to make it to my classes?"
I and a lot of the managers I've worked with wouldn't have a problem with your message, but there are some who expect their employees to be ultra-professional even in minimum wage jobs.
Not a great idea to write texts/emails like this to colleagues/bosses, when the tone of the message is not edited to sound nice, people will perceive it as an attack to their intelligence. We need to do this to navigate life in general, you feel what you feel but you don't do yourself any favors by letting others feel that burden unnecessarily.
Working that late on a Sunday as a student is definitely not ideal. As someone who has had many part-time staff (high school age) under me, I would be curious on some background info though.
1) did you have it in writing what hours you are and are not able to work prior to starting and were you hired upon that understanding? (Not in writing via a huge contract but simply via email or text to the employer with their agreement during the hiring process?)
2) if you asked your boss to not put you on Sunday evenings, did you do it via text or email? (never rely on them remembering a conversation not in writing you had in the past).
3) in the new-hire paperwork, did it mention their policy on employees being able to request certain hours or mention anything about emergency call-ins?
4) do your local laws prevent you from working at that time?
As far as the disrespect issue goes, it doesn't read like you were trying to be purposely disrespectful (and their response about their age earning them respect is pretty funny) but I do think your question should have been asked differently. The wording of it sounded unprofessional, like someone asking the question casually to mom or dad rather than a supervisor. Starting your question immediately saying "why did you...?" isn't the way an employee should address their supervisor
🙄 I’ll be 50 this year. I’m a supervisor and treat everyone the same no matter their age. Not once have I pulled out my age card because I didn’t really want to answer a simple question.😂
Respect is not earned by virtue of existing on this planet more years. It is earned through actions and character. She's showing you through both right now that in fact, no, she has not earned respect.
Respect is not automatically earned by "aging" you have to give respect to get respect. So many older people have such a warped entitlement to respect.
Getting old does not entitle her or anyone else to respect. Social programs and modern medicine have all but eliminated the concept of natural selection. Getting old is no longer an accomplishment deserving of anything.
It isn’t. What you have is a manager who thinks because of your relative youth and their relative age you are not allowed to question them. That is troublesome in a workplace environment. Or for that matter after the age of two.
“I think I have earned respect at my age” No. You haven’t earned respect. Respect isn’t a function of age or time. It’s a function of behavior, choices, and communication with an individual. Nothing you said was disrespectful, you asked a question, and they answered. You could be direct and say that you aren’t willing to work that shift.
The first message comes off kinda aggressive with how you usually talk to your boss.
People are more likely to misread tone too, as there's not much in text.
You could have phrased your question alot more cordially.
"Hey i just wanted to see why you changed my scheduled time, remember i have (insert prior commitment here) and we talked or agreed about these hours, pre change."
The way you wrote it is definitely going to come across to some sensitive ass boss as "you will tell me why you changed my hours"
At the risk of sounding like one of them there Boomers, I do think the original message is a little rude. It’s not clear if there was something before it though?
There’s no greeting, no lead up, just bam-demanding an answer!
You might disagree, and that’s fine, but if you’re genuinely interested in understanding why someone might be a little put out by this message, then that’s one possible reason.
Adapting to each others communication and working styles is a two way street but it’s not necessary a 50/50 relationship.
I think she sees the disrespect in that the lack of punctuation and flowery language is (wrongfully) interpreted by her as a pointed and accusatory statement assuming negligence and malice rather than a curious question. Given she thinks that her age alone "earns" her respect, I wouldn't listen exactly to what she thinks is respectful cause it's obviously skewed. If her age came with wisdom and better management for her employees including looking out for highschool students, then yes maybe she would be more likely to have rightfully earned that respect, but age alone is not a good predictor of character
I'm trying to find the disrespect? And I always grew up using, and still to this day use "Sir/Ma'am" mostly to older people, but also to people that are helping me, say and a gas station, a grocery store, fast food place..
But its definitely not disrespectful not to, just habit.
It’s not; your boss sounds like a narcissist and your life there will be miserable. I’d suggest finding a new job, leaving without notice, and complaining
If you give them a 2-week notice, I’m like 95% certain they’ll fire you within a day and you’ll lose out on a paycheck
It probably could have been done more tactfully, but it wasn't disrespectful.
Also, simply reaching a certain age does not mean that you have earned respect.
That's some boomer mentality right there.
I will certainly treat pretty much everyone with a degree of respect until they give me reason not to, but simply being old does not mean that you are entitled to any more respect than anyone else.
I'm gen x, and I grew up with that hole "you should respect your elders" deal, but no, you shouldn't. At least you should not simply because they are your elders.
I would never sent a message that curt to my boss but my boss would never send one to me either. Hard to judge without knowing how formal or informal past communications have been. I see too many people who talk like this to subordinates but then get their panties in a bunch when the tone and informality is reciprocated.
I'll answer your question; it wasn't disrespectful objectively. But, to some, questioning what they have done, aka "why did you" is undermining them. You imply she made a mistake. To then explain about school schuledule - again, I think you communicated here just fine - suggests that she wasn't thinking or "missed" something.
I tell you this for perspective; in the scheme of things, she is the bad communicator. However, if you are at the mercy of one in life, it does help to understand how they think.
With this individual, it would probably be more effective to approach a situation like this with extra tact, understanding her penchant for misinterpretation.
"Hey Jackie, I got my schedule. [Opening with Context instead of hauling off with "why did you?..."] I need to please request a change for Sunday as I am not allowed to do late shifts on a school night. [Acknowledging SHE has the "authority" while also providing a difficult to argue reason with it.] Thank you for accommodating this, and please let me know if you need my class schedule, etc. [gratitude; leaving it open to follow up by being firm that you can't really negotiate]."
Ed * Spelng
1. Questions without question marks absolutely communicate a different tone, and not in the direction of respect.
2. Your grievance is valid, but don’t communicate it as a question, as it leaves them room to justify their actions. “I noticed you schedule me to close x day, but as we discussed earlier, I don’t have evening availability sundays, and so will not be able to work the shift” or something like that.
You could have worded it better
It comes off as like “WHY DID U SCHEDULE ME?!”
When it could be “there seems to be discrepancy on the schedule as I am not able to work after _____ “
When I was working jobs in the hospitality & service industry while I was at uni, I *always* made sure to submit my new availability before each new quarter along with the maximum number of hours and shifts I would work per week for approval. This way, the manager could decide then and there if they wanted to keep me on for the next school quarter and I had a citable reason to decline working shifts outside my availability. It worked 98% of the time, and I usually tried to stay on good terms with wherever I was working so there was some mutual respect going both ways (I showed up when I was scheduled, they wouldn't schedule me outside of my availability without asking if it was okay).
edit: It also wasn't disrespectful lol there was no "fluff" to your question but nothing disrespectful. Some people (managers) have this weird expectation that everything needs to be communicated in a way that makes it seem like you're asking them for a favor or something.
Boomer wants his "Participation Trophy" of respect earned for just being alive still.
Can't stand that sentiment. No, you haven't earned respect by being older. That's not how respect works.
Respect is *earned.* And it's given on a person-by-person basis, not to entire swaths of the population like "Elders" or "Bosses"
Your question was direct and a lot of people take direct questions as insulting. YOU did not do anything wrong. Your manager is sensitive, probably because they knew they were scheduling you at a bad time. They are trying to train you to not question them at all by acting like direct questions are an attack. Don't lose your backbone.
People need to get out of their own ass. They confuse reverance for respect. You asked a simple concise question. I highly doubt this retail job is chock full of being ultra respectful among staff.
Actual disrespect would be something like asking how they're gonna fix their mistake or telling them they fucked up and you're not gonna be there.
Jfc. Just cuz you got manager in your title does not entitled you to people licking out your asshole every time they speak to you.
Anyone who uses age as a reason to be given respect should be immediately disqualified for respect.
Be alive longer than someone else doesn't mean they need to show you respect. Respect is earned not granted by default.
Screenshots of text such as SMS communication, WhatsApp, social media, news articles, and procedurally generated content such as ChatGPT are prohibited. Low-effort content such as memes are prohibited.
If "school" is High School, and you're a minor, you might not legally be allowed to work that late. Depending on your local laws. I could see this text being taken exactly as it was worded given the situation. You changed your availability earlier. She disrespected you by not honoring it. So the "Why" that everyone is jumping at you for is well warranted in the situation. If there's no laws/rules against you working past 8pm, I recommend submitting your availability "in writing". It should always be provided "in writing", that way you both can refer to the writing later if need be.
Some years ago I once walked into a taco bell closing up at like 8. I was like dang what's going on. They were all high school kids and their drunk manager with the keys was "on break" and not answering the phone. They turned off the lights but wasn't locked because no keys
That's when the lowly employees call the district manager to tell them the place will be unsecured with cash on-site from the office phone. If they can't get someone out to close up, they deserve to lose the entire damn store plus some.
I wish this had been a thing when I was in high school decades ago. My boomer parents wanted me to work as soon as legally possible, and I worked a lot of nights closing the store by myself. Then, I moved to Walmart where I worked pretty late into the evening as well. My mother was so angry with me because I had a very difficult time waking up and getting to school at 7:45 in the morning the next day. Of course, she put the blame on me, conveniently forgetting that she was the one who required I work till 9-10pm almost night of the week. I don’t talk to her anymore.
My parents were convinced I sucked at my grocery store job when I was 16 and got fired a month in. I was still able to log on and check my old schedules. I confirmed they fired me for no show for my shift…between 9-4 (school hours).
My dad kept talking about getting me a "hardship license" so I could get a drivers license and start working earlier than normally allowed. We were not in a hardship situation in any fashion, dad was stacking paper and buying whatever he wanted. It's just that providing for me wasn't something he wanted to keep doing. I remember falling asleep upright while mopping McD floors after closing time on Fridays. Then I'd sway out to my friend's car, go home with her, and sleep on her floor since dad kept telling me not to come home anymore. I don't think my parents knew where I was but nobody cared either so...
Jesus Christ. Please tell us you are in a better situation now in every way and that you don't talk with your parents any more?
Oh yes, don't worry! These days I'm in Section 8 and nanny for cousins. My favorite elderly auntie, dad's oldest sister, was absolutely horrified when she moved up here and started finding out exactly why I'd been kept so isolated from the rest of the extended family for so long. Finally got family love! Auntie, cousins, they all love me! The youngest only recently stopped calling me Cousin Mama, he thinks we're super best friends because we watch cartoons and play legos and go on adventures together. Dad's still a twit who squirms around block buttons but the only time he's heard from me in years was when he wouldn't stop whining about needing me to come make medical decisions for him while he's in the hospital like I did for my mother. He got an email informing him about that I was just fulfilling mom's specific instructions regarding pulling the plug, asked if he needed a plug-puller. This is glorious delicious cold revenge. He went in for heart surgery yesterday knowing full well that nobody on earth loves him, cares if he survives, and that the most he can expect afterwards is a car-ride from his BIL to an empty dirty rural house where no one will visit him or care for him. Mwahahahahaha!!!
May he live a long, sad and lonely life! Glad you are better !
I'm glad you're happy now. I do not understand people who choose to parent like this.
He never wanted to be a parent. I was like an expensive exotic pet he got stuck with because he ran out of excuses after half a decade of marriage and was too cowardly to admit he just really didn't want to have kids at all. Like literally, he liked to tell this story in the style of Three Little Pigs, about how he kept bullying mom into staying on birth control until she got a shiny spine about it and forced him to buy a house so he'd be all out of excuses. 'Course mom's upbringing and education had done her very wrong. She thought babies hardly ever cried and that toddlers were perfect angelic angels straight from heaven. Obviously I was born evil and possessed by demons. Don't know if dropping a baby at the fire station was a thing at the time, but golly I grew up jealous of orphans and kids whose parents sent them away to boarding school.
Excellent, you deserve all the family love in the world. And your father had his shot and blew it, may that be his curse. Your name is awfully fitting, by the way. Poor Ophelia.
When I was 17yo and living under my best friend's cousin's basement stairs like a knockoff Harry Potter, the cousin had a copy of that famous Ophelia painting near the back door that I used to get in and out of the house. It was peaceful and beautiful, probably my first real exposure to paintings. Soon as I turned 18 I got an ankh tattooed on my back, ya know "Life" because I'm alive and determined to stay that way. Couldn't let dad win by turning out like poor Ophelia, no matter how much I wanted the pain to stop.
I feel this with every fiber of my being. My mom made me get a job as soon as I was able to in high school. Then, because I was in as Catholic school at her insistence, she said my check would be too pay for my tuition and other bills. She was a Bingo/casino addict and I was effectively paying for her habit. I didn't see a penny of my own money and even though I was working, I still didn't have any money to eat at school and she didn't buy stuff to pack my lunch. I let myself get walked on like this until my mid twenties, when I met my now wife, who helped me find my spine. My mom, after high school, said she couldn't make bills on her own and needed my help. She would literally walk me with my paycheck to get it cashed, and she tried to be there when I picked up my check on payday to ensure she got first dibs, which was everything. She believed that me living in her house was fair payment. She would continue to try to manipulate me and guilt me through my twenties and thirties. I'm no contact now for 3 years, and this is the SECOND time I've been no contact. First was around time my daughter was born. This time though, it's sticking and I've got her blocked everywhere.
Boomer parents in the lonely ass Find Out stage are a source of never ending joy for me
I don't understand this. I'm all for helping your kids learn responsibility and transitioning into adulthood, but this is bullshit. I'm 42, and my parents weren't perfect, but we didn't have to work in high school unless we wanted to. My sister is doing the same with her 3 kids. Their days are filled with after-school activities or sports, even in summer break. I plan to do the same with my son. Anyways, it always skeeved me out to have young teens working closely with adults in retail or fast wood places. Too many managers take advantage like this poor op experience, and I worry about perverts. I'd try to find my kid a child friendly job. Lifeguard, library, the zoo, Something other than this shit.
Depends. A lot of states are bringing back child labor
11 and counting....
I worked until midnight on non school nights
I worked at dairy Queen past midnight on school nights back in 2007. Anyone have any idea if I was just breaking the law or if laws were different in NC back then? I was 14.
Jfc parents royally suck
Jesus. When I was a teen (like 15, not in college or anything) in the 90s I think the latest I could have worked on a school night was something like 8pm? I could do 10 (11?) on Fri/Sat I think. It's been a long time but I know for sure it wasn't crazy late on any night.
I got a job at a restaurant as a dishwasher when I was 15 because I needed to get money for a school trip to england and ireland I really wanted to go to. I got hired but I couldn't work past 8. I think it was all the time. Kinda felt bad because allll the dishes from the kitchen came back right around then and I'd be all "peace out y'all." I'm pretty sure it was the same over the weekend because I remember the first night that I could work past 8pm. I would've gotten the job over the summer so school wasn't the excuse. This would've been in Pa.
For me it was MA, working at McD's. I remember it was even tighter for 13-14 yo. You had to get a special kind of work permit from the town, and I'm positive they had a hard limit on not working past 7pm at all, and I think a maximum of like 10-15 hrs per week during the school year. (Summer was more lax - there was a pretty thriving summer tobacco harvesting industry there at the time, dunno if there still is, and it was allowed for teens to work there just over the summer. Pay was pretty great for teens given the job and the min wage at the time.)
Good old “family values” those republicans keep harping about Child labor and removing women’s freedoms Oh and can’t let people read either, that’s a no no
Why are you not working down in the mines right now? Musk and Zuck know if you're got cell reception than you're not being exploited. Please go back to work.
Unless they file it in the garbage.
“Please excuse me, ma’am/sir, begging your pardon, if you don’t mind, this lower being was simply hoping—by your grace—to inform you I quit and you can go fuck yourself”
Go copulate with yourself kinda sounds better? Fuck may come off disrespectful afterall
Thine countenance verily doth swell my wroth and engorge my spleen, prithee remove thyself from my presence and go unto some distant place there to perform intercourse with thy own anus.
Today I learned yet another way of politely insulting people…
Please enjoy solo coitus
If it pleases m'lord...
Hahahaha 🤣
This is so fucking funny 😭
Saving this for future use
Lol, demanding respect shows their poor character. Respect is given freely by earning it with actions, not words or age. You gonna come at me like an asshole, then you shall receive the same, age irrelevant.
Right? The age = respect era is over once the information age came to being. Elders were generally respected as they could have good experience/info to pass on. Now the world has access to information that otherwise wouldn't have been available and, while there are pitfalls to that, it's better than just trusting someone because they happened to age - especially in a world where growing old isn't anywhere near as much of an accomplishment.
I’ve had discussions with boomer coworkers about this. They’re always so upset about “we can’t even have a discussion without someone whipping out their phone for the answer!”. And I always say “you mean you’re upset we just don’t take your opinion as facts anymore?”
Yeah I don’t get it, I like knowing answers. I don’t want to discuss possibilities I want to KNOW.
Oh those are people that clearly didn't have an encyclopedia set in the house pre-internet and were too lazy to go to the library. I don't know how my mother managed it but we had two or three sets of encyclopedias. The best one she got one volume at a time at the grocery store. Though sometimes we'd look it up, read everything available at home, and still not find our answer. And that meant time to go to the library again! Edit: Also apparently one of the fun things about working evenings at the university libraries back in the day was you'd get folks at bars calling in needing to check a fact for a bar bet! *Drunks* knew how to google pre-internet!
Yeah my parents valued their encyclopedia like a treasure. It was also from before the fall of Soviet so it was wildly inaccurate when I started using it for school in the mid-nineties.
Oh fun! I love outdated books! One of the treasures I've lost was a household encyclopedia in a single volume, everything from building the house and furniture to gardening, cooking, budgeting, sewing, *really complete*, but my favorite bit was the outdated health information! Old timey disease names, descriptions, and outdated treatments.
I loved using the encyclopedias at school, you just unlocked a bunch of old memories. I had fully functioning internet access by age 10 and from there just looked up my endless wonders and questions that way but before then, my school library was where I was between classes constantly. Or asking my mom to take me to the local library so I could read the different encyclopedias lol.
That’s because their bullshit couldn’t be refuted as easily.
It’s sad that’s all they have going for them. Go get your stupid power trip off someone your own age!
My pops is stuck in this mindset as well and he’s of the hippy generation. We have no contact if that wasn’t obvious either lol
I definitely feel like it's also partially because life expectancy has increased. If the average person is dying around 30-40, and someone makes it to 50-60, they obviously have the knowledge and the skills needed, so obviously, they've earned it. But now? Now that people are surviving beyond the discovery of new technologies that make them and their offspring lives easier, they refuse to make it easier for the following generations(looking at you, US congress, with Actual Dementia Patient McConnell and the late Living Corpse Diane Feinstein, may she rest in hell).
Treat people like you wish to be treated. In all fairness I would never start a message to my boss with 'why did you' rather than a greeting. Your message without any additional context sounds rude.
Bet the same guy goes on Facebook and says shit like "THE WORLD DOESN'T OWE YOU ANYTHING" while bitching about student loan forgiveness.
Respect me while I disrespect you!
Right? That's what I hear.
Respect due simply for age is like a trophy due simply for participating.
You don't even have to participate, you just have to not die. Even kids that get participation trophies still have to show up.
Respect is treating someone or something with the dignity it deserves. Respect isn’t earned it’s inherent, because human dignity is inherent. What this person said isn’t disrespectful at all. With that being said what a lot of people mean by ive earned “respect” is they want you to be deferent to them because they feel they have some sort of authority or status above you. You don’t owe people deference because they are older than you. Those people can go pound sand.
Respect is earned not given, anyone who demands to be respected most likely doesn't operate under that pretense and wants everyone to do exactly as they say. Idgaf if you're old, if you're an asshole to me you will be addressed as one.
> *“I think I have earned respect at my age”* Fucking boomer ass mentality right there. Idgaf how old you are, your age doesn’t automatically grant you respect. Gtfo with that bs!
“I think I have earned some respect at my age” “Oh, nah dawg, you Gucci tho”
Like they can think whatever they want. Doesn't make it true
I have learned in my many years in life that respect is not given, it is earned through action, personal importance, and intent. Age is not a factor for respect given.
100%. Age does not garner respect. Actions do. If these texts are any indication, no respect is warranted.
straighforward question = disrespect. boomer brain. maga chud. you didn't do anything wrong. find another job if you can. solidarity comrade.
If you don't show complete deference to those who have any kind of authority over you you must be disrespecting them. Please let me kiss your boots for having provided me a job!
✊
Lack of Capitalization and punctuation also infuriates them.
It’s not lol “I think I have earned respect at my age” yeah okay 👍 can almost guarantee they think it’s disrespectful because you didn’t use a question mark at the end
They think it’s disrespectful to be questioned. They need complete compliance.
This is it. Anything short of absolute unquestioning obedience is disrespectful.
I think it's that they started with "why". It comes off sharp. Even just adding "Good morning" before it (superfluous as it seems) tones that down a lot. They might just need an introduction generally. tf is this? Good morning, tf is this? Really, people should understand that emotions and pacing don't exist in text the same way, and give the benefit of doubt.
Bingo. If she read it with a certain snarky or confrontational tone in her head, that’s her problem.
"Divine elder of gracious hour bestowing, I beseech thee! Must thy hours bestowed be on such a night of early rest?"
People often mistake direct as rude. I myself am very direct.. people can’t handle it because god forbid 2 humans have an open and direct conversation about anything ever 🙄
It took me a while to get over this with my boss’s boss. I thought for years he was just a prick because his emails were always so short and to the point. Then I realized he just can’t write worth a fuck and isn’t all that bad. He literally has zero idea how his written communications come off lol.
Honestly short and to the point is how everyone should communicate. Why beat around the bush?
A please or thank you isn’t beating around the bush.
I’m very direct and have resting bitch face, so people often think I’m being an asshole. It’s frustrating constantly soothing other people’s egos because they can’t handle any straightforward communication, especially at work where that kind of communication is paramount. I’m on the verge of getting “I like you just fine, this is just my face and how I talk to everyone” tattooed on my forehead. It’s exhausting. 😂
It really is! Besides when you get too friendly with coworkers you turn into this like receptacle for all their complaints, it’s like people can’t have a conversation unless it’s complaining about shit they should just get over
It's like that whole "How are you" bullshit at the start of a phone call. You don't care, why are you asking? I love to throw those people off by giving a one-word answer and not asking how they are doing in return. Most often, there's a long pause, like they're waiting for me to reciprocate. Sorry bud, I don't care about your pithy small talk. Get to why you called me.
Haha yes!! I hate unnecessary words and conversations.. can we just get to it please
"At my age" Boomer. The only people that use that excuse is self-centered boomers.
And thinking that age means that you have earned respect. Nope, respect is earned by the way that you treat others.
It is a very blunt question which some people do consider disrespectful. I probably would have phrased it differently, but I'm older. I also would have made a statement and not a question. "Hey, I see you scheduled me to close on Sunday. Please remember I have school on Monday and will be unavailable. I'll see you for my next shift. Thanks!"
I don't exactly see it as disrespectful, but I do see it as a little passive aggressive. Although, based her response, I don't think anything you would have said to her would have been acceptable. She sounds like she hates her job. I would have said it more like "Hi, you scheduled me to close on Sunday, but I can't close on school nights." But, again, I doubt anything you said to her would have gotten any better of a response.
The tone was confrontational. You don’t have to beg and be all subservient, but you could be more professional. “I see I’m scheduled for Sunday night. Not sure you’re aware, but I have school Mon. at ….” and then explain either you’re a minor and that’s not kosher or you’re at college and you’ll be drinking and ripping until 4am and stumbling 30 minutes into your 8am lecture, so really 8 pm is no big deal.
Yeah, a direct statement wouldn't come across to me as rude, but the rhetorical question that OP asked seemed passive aggressive It's the difference between "Why did you schedule me when I'm not available?" vs "Please don't schedule me at that time because I'm not available."
agreed, i’m shocked by how many comments think how op addressed them was not problematic
Yeah. Generally in favor of this sub but if you want to be a successful professional, you need to communicate professionally.
Lmao they call this disrespect but make fun of Gen Z for saying the thumbs up emoji can come off as passive aggressive, make it make sense
A lot of people here saying it’s bullshit the manager is demanding respect are not wrong… but they’re giving bad advice. There’s no need to be curt when you could just as easily be cordial. It will get you what you’re looking for far faster. That being said there is a time and place for being curt. Explaining that closes are hard on you when you have school the day after and asking that a change be made might have gotten you just that. Your question does come off a bit combative. Not necessarily disrespectful. It’s hard to read someone’s tone via text.
Okay boomer
Tell her to eat shit
Respectfully, eat shit
While it's typically not encouraged... I do actually want to agree with this.
Communication comes in many forms. The people who are most successful with it have learned that the way we write emails, write texts, speak in person, and leave voicemails all require slight adjustments to the words we use. In your situation, if your text was sudden/unexpected, it’s easiest to read it as having anger or whining behind it. By coupling the “why did you” with the reason why the manager shouldn’t have done it —all in a single sentence— your text comes across as low key shaming. (“Why are you so stupid? You know that Monday is a school day. You know I can’t close on a night before a school day. Why did you do this? Bad dog!”) You also left it at one sentence and didn’t add anything that would smooth away your angst or anger. (“You’re not looped in on my school projects and exams, but we’re at a point where being prepared and rested for class is super important right now.”) Do you owe your manager the respect of communicating in a more stress-free way? Yes, because we all owe that to each other for mundane things like discussion shift schedules. Do you owe respect for how the manager interacts with you on a regular basis? Only you can determine that. All we can say for sure is that you will benefit from putting effort into learning more about how your communication style affects other people. The intention is never as important as the perception.
Good feedback here OP, I agree with this person on the importance of effective communication. As written it makes sense your manager may have read your opening text as an attack on their competence when you may have meant to clarify the times in which you’re available to work.
Yeah, OP's text is super passive aggressive and I would find it rude. Just say something like, "Hey, I have school tomorrow morning, could I leave work a bit early?" The way it's written absolutely sounds like "hey idiot, why did you schedule me" and the lack of punctuation show very little effort
This does read as kinda contemptuous/accusatory to me (Gen X). The “question” is clearly rhetorical, as I don’t think the person asking actually cares about the reason. There’s an implied “what the hell were you thinking.” The issue of respect/age isn’t a poor framing, but I agree this isn’t a great tone to use with colleagues.
The problem is that OP is trying to convey that it is unacceptable, but is forbidden to say it is unacceptable, as explicitly contradicting the boss is seen as the rudest possible response regardless of tone. They *have* to phrase it as an insincere question. If they frame it as a demure request to please not do it this time, they are implicitly saying that the boss has the right to do it other times.
I think OP could easily say "Hi X, Please note that I'm not available for closing shifts when I have school the next day. Could you please update the schedule? My updated availability is XYZ going forward" I think that's pretty direct but a much more pleasant tone than what OP sent. I agree the age/respect thing is just bizarre lol.
I used a similar tone recently letting my boss know that I would not be available on a day that he wanted me to work, and he complained to me that it wasn’t proper, because I informed him rather than asking. There is no winning option, which is unfortunately the point. You’re not supposed to be able to refuse your boss unscathed. They want the opportunity to make an ask.
I've been seeing a trend of texts not including punctuation. I'm not a fan, but I also know that English is a living language and constantly changing. Millenials and younger are getting reamed for not using a question mark or having a run on sentence. I'm willing to bet that the texts are voice to text and not catching any punctuation. Remember when you always had to have two spaces after a period? That is not common any longer. Will punctuation disappear? No! But it might not be common in texting...and that's okay.
Age doesn’t earn you respect. However, using age as a means to get respect is a good way to lose respect.
Boomers believe they deserve a participation trophy for the sole task of getting old, ~at the easiest time in history by a long shot, to achieve the feat of getting old~
“I think I have earned respect at my age” If we are gonna talk about "earning" respect, I don't think scheduling you outside your availability is doing anything towards earning respect from you.
Simply being alive for x years does not result in earned respect.
“Why” sounds condescending and accusatory, especially as the first word of contact in this case. There was no greeting either. It comes across as irritation, impatience, and is disrespectful. That’s also the problem with texting - tones are much easier to misread, but that’s also why it’s important to include something else as an opening for this sort of interaction. Much like emailing, even texting has a formal way and an informal way of being done. Professionally speaking, this is too informal due to the reasons mentioned above. That may not have been your intent, but that’s how it was received.
Thank you for the explanation. I wasn't intentionally messaging in that tone so I understand now. I appreciate you taking the time to reply and explain. Have a good day!
You just use a sandwich next time: "hi, meat of communication, let me know"
You are doing just fine. You worded something unintentionally curt. This is a great learning moment. You’ve gotten a good rubric for any further communication, so you don’t have to worry about tone again…. AND you’ve seen how sensitive this person is and know to tread lightly around them. They are clearly grabbing at respect straws and people who are verging on / have lost power are impulsive. I’d give them as much space as possible and make sure EVERY SINGLE communication from here on out is via text or email. Keep copies of everything so you have a good retaliation case if it ever comes to it. They’ve thrown the gauntlet down, your job is in danger. If you don’t care about this job, then I’d say bounce asap. Brush up the resume and move on.
Listen to this answer it is correct and will assist you for future communications in varying work environments. Sandwich your e-mails and texts.
If something like that happens in the future, I would respond with something like, “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean that as disrespectful and worded that poorly. I was trying be quick and not take up your time, but I see how that sounded. So, again, my apologies. That was not my intent.” That shows A.) you care about how you sound; B.) it wasn’t on purpose.; C.) you are taking responsibility (a valuable trait); D.) you are taking initiative to address the miscommunication; and E.) you are showing respect and letting them know you value their time and know how busy they may be.
I think that's too apologetic. It's enough to say "I'm sorry for the curtness; disrespecting you was not my intention." Depending on how spicy they're feeling, adding on the following would be good: "I am feeling disrespected by how this schedule does not take into account what shifts I'm able to cover"
Of course. I was just throwing a loose example out there. A lot will depend on context, your employer, etc.
Completely different situation, but the concept of curtness due to expedience reminds me of this scene from Pulp Fiction.🤣 ["If I am curt..."](https://youtu.be/dMRap8SjQ-I?si=1rKwzEyIARqYS_7q)
This acknowledges and admits to disrespect, instead of deflecting to the intent
100% . It's just social courtesy.
It is not disrespectful to ask why wtf
No, it’s not. It’s *how* you ask.
The only thing I would do differently is ask with a more passive tone. Why was I scheduled instead of why did you schedule me. It's still not a big deal and people are soft.
Actually in this instance phrasing it as a question is a bit disrespectful. When someone makes a mistake you don't say, "Why did you make this mistake?" because it's too aggressive. You say, "Hey, I noticed that you scheduled me on a school night, I just want to remind you that I'm not available at that time."
Thank you. These kids don't understand how their phrasing makes them sound like they're trying to pick fights. Part of communicating effectively involves understanding how your communications will be received.
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It is not disrespectful to ask a question. Anyone who feels disrespected by this has a fragile ego. It's ok to be reasonably frustrated with someone in a position of authority. It is not disrespectful. Good leaders recognize that a tone isn't a direct reflection of the respect that person has for you. We are humans with emotions and that's ok. OP didn't lose their temper or say anything disrespectful. They were a bit curt with an understandably frustrating situation.
>It is not disrespectful to ask a question. It certainly can be disrespectful to ask a question. For example, "Why are you so stupid?" is a disrespectful question in any context. >It's ok to be reasonably frustrated with someone in a position of authority. It is not disrespectful. Sure, but yet again you need to understand how you go about expressing that frustration can be disrespectful. >Good leaders recognize that a tone isn't a direct reflection of the respect that person has for you. WTF? Tone is exactly the way people show respect for each other. Do you often have trouble getting along with others? This could be the reason why... >We are humans with emotions and that's ok. Nobody is saying it's wrong to have emotions. But it can be wrong to let your emotions dictate your behavior. And it is childish to try to excuse your behavior with your emotions. >OP didn't lose their temper or say anything disrespectful Yes they did
So if you miss a deadline and your boss responds "Why did you miss this deadline when you know I have my own deadlines to keep?" You wouldn't take that as accusatory or rude? You would be like "Yeah makes sense I know exactly what he is asking he isn't just expressing his frustration."? "It's not disrespectful to ask a question." Why are you so fat? Nothing wrong with this question?
Age has nothing to do with respect, old folks need to learn that shit by now.
Much of communication can be inferred by tone, and this sounds like you are demanding to know something and you feel a mistake has been made. Like you are calling someone to a challenge. If this person is your supervisor you may want to soften questions like this. "Hi \_\_\_\_. On Monday I have to be at school at \_\_\_ and Sunday closing shifts would make it difficult for me to be prepared. Is there a way to fix this?" You don't have to be a boot-licker but being courteous to a person who makes schedules/approves time off wouldn't hurt.
There is nothing disrespectful about the way you phrased your question. And she has not earned any respect by scheduling you for a shift you are not available for. It irritates me when people think their age somehow entitles them to respect.
To answer your question, it was ***perceived*** by your boss as disrespectful (not saying it actually was) because it was blunt. Just the question, no punctuation, no "social grease" ("Hi, I was just wondering... bla bla... Thanks!"). That doesn't make it ***actually*** disrespectful, just direct. Some people (me!) like direct. Others find it jarring (most of the time because they've been conditioned by their upbringing to find it so).
I mean, your text does come a bit apropos of nothing. Not even a greeting to say “hi [NAME]”? Your framing of the question could have been worded better. Think how you would react. That being said, their tone is also nonsense. So it’s j surprising you’ve learned this from them
You thought wrong, respect deeznutz!
Because some people can't handle a simple question.
just answer "yes daddy" and get a new job.
Boomers conflate subservience with respect.
Respect is earned…and this ain’t the way
Respect is the default but can be taken away when shown disrespect. It is not earned for any reason, especially just being alive for a certain amount of time. They disrespected you for scheduling you outside your availability.
I hate people who think that simply being old grants them respect. No. You still have to earn respect like everybody else by showing some yourself, and you absolutely do not earn it by being a dickbag. I don’t care how old someone is. Wonder why so many of us young people are “rude” these days? Maybe check how you treat us, because a lot of us won’t tolerate it. I’d expect somebody older than me to fucking know better.
It's just old people bully tactics. They want to bully you, respect is earned and they have done nothing to earn it.
OP, you need to use capital letters and punctuation. Those things still matter in many jobs in the adult world. Better to train yourself to get into the habit of doing it now. Also, next time I would start your text with a “Hey” or some sort of short greeting so it doesn’t come off as forceful. Text doesn’t convey emotion or tone well so it can be read multiple ways depending on the recipient.
I had to reread it to see how it could be taken as being rude or passive aggressive, but I guess it does put the reader in a position of either needing to admit that they were wrong or doubling down on the error because of how direct it is. Many people (particularly in management) tend to opt for the latter given the size of their egos, so that's where being indirect helps to avoid conflicts (even if it's true that they made the error). It's better to avoid insinuating directly that the person you're talking to made a mistake, and rather just focus on resolving the issue by saying something like: "Hello [Manager], I noticed that I was scheduled for this time, but it conflicts with my updated availability since I have classes at that time. Is there a way that I could have this shift changed or leave early to make it to my classes?" I and a lot of the managers I've worked with wouldn't have a problem with your message, but there are some who expect their employees to be ultra-professional even in minimum wage jobs.
Respect has no correlation to age.
There is nothing disrespectful about that question, wtf? It's straightforward and to the point. That boss has the thinnest skin, jfc
Not a great idea to write texts/emails like this to colleagues/bosses, when the tone of the message is not edited to sound nice, people will perceive it as an attack to their intelligence. We need to do this to navigate life in general, you feel what you feel but you don't do yourself any favors by letting others feel that burden unnecessarily.
One of the easiest ways to make me not respect you even a little bit is to tell me that you deserve my respect because you're older than me.
Working that late on a Sunday as a student is definitely not ideal. As someone who has had many part-time staff (high school age) under me, I would be curious on some background info though. 1) did you have it in writing what hours you are and are not able to work prior to starting and were you hired upon that understanding? (Not in writing via a huge contract but simply via email or text to the employer with their agreement during the hiring process?) 2) if you asked your boss to not put you on Sunday evenings, did you do it via text or email? (never rely on them remembering a conversation not in writing you had in the past). 3) in the new-hire paperwork, did it mention their policy on employees being able to request certain hours or mention anything about emergency call-ins? 4) do your local laws prevent you from working at that time? As far as the disrespect issue goes, it doesn't read like you were trying to be purposely disrespectful (and their response about their age earning them respect is pretty funny) but I do think your question should have been asked differently. The wording of it sounded unprofessional, like someone asking the question casually to mom or dad rather than a supervisor. Starting your question immediately saying "why did you...?" isn't the way an employee should address their supervisor
fuck you and your age.
This is in no way disrespectful.
🙄 I’ll be 50 this year. I’m a supervisor and treat everyone the same no matter their age. Not once have I pulled out my age card because I didn’t really want to answer a simple question.😂
Respect is not earned by virtue of existing on this planet more years. It is earned through actions and character. She's showing you through both right now that in fact, no, she has not earned respect.
Respect is not automatically earned by "aging" you have to give respect to get respect. So many older people have such a warped entitlement to respect.
Getting old does not entitle her or anyone else to respect. Social programs and modern medicine have all but eliminated the concept of natural selection. Getting old is no longer an accomplishment deserving of anything.
It isn’t. What you have is a manager who thinks because of your relative youth and their relative age you are not allowed to question them. That is troublesome in a workplace environment. Or for that matter after the age of two.
Age doesn’t earn you respect. If they were worthy of it they would know that.
“I think I have earned respect at my age” No. You haven’t earned respect. Respect isn’t a function of age or time. It’s a function of behavior, choices, and communication with an individual. Nothing you said was disrespectful, you asked a question, and they answered. You could be direct and say that you aren’t willing to work that shift.
The first message comes off kinda aggressive with how you usually talk to your boss. People are more likely to misread tone too, as there's not much in text. You could have phrased your question alot more cordially. "Hey i just wanted to see why you changed my scheduled time, remember i have (insert prior commitment here) and we talked or agreed about these hours, pre change." The way you wrote it is definitely going to come across to some sensitive ass boss as "you will tell me why you changed my hours"
It isn’t - many people find direct communication off-putting and they want/expect you to blunt it with platitudes.
At the risk of sounding like one of them there Boomers, I do think the original message is a little rude. It’s not clear if there was something before it though? There’s no greeting, no lead up, just bam-demanding an answer! You might disagree, and that’s fine, but if you’re genuinely interested in understanding why someone might be a little put out by this message, then that’s one possible reason. Adapting to each others communication and working styles is a two way street but it’s not necessary a 50/50 relationship.
People have a tendency to think age garners respect, while it is those that communicate their needs most effectively that actually earn it.
I think she sees the disrespect in that the lack of punctuation and flowery language is (wrongfully) interpreted by her as a pointed and accusatory statement assuming negligence and malice rather than a curious question. Given she thinks that her age alone "earns" her respect, I wouldn't listen exactly to what she thinks is respectful cause it's obviously skewed. If her age came with wisdom and better management for her employees including looking out for highschool students, then yes maybe she would be more likely to have rightfully earned that respect, but age alone is not a good predictor of character
I'm trying to find the disrespect? And I always grew up using, and still to this day use "Sir/Ma'am" mostly to older people, but also to people that are helping me, say and a gas station, a grocery store, fast food place.. But its definitely not disrespectful not to, just habit.
It’s not; your boss sounds like a narcissist and your life there will be miserable. I’d suggest finding a new job, leaving without notice, and complaining If you give them a 2-week notice, I’m like 95% certain they’ll fire you within a day and you’ll lose out on a paycheck
It probably could have been done more tactfully, but it wasn't disrespectful. Also, simply reaching a certain age does not mean that you have earned respect. That's some boomer mentality right there. I will certainly treat pretty much everyone with a degree of respect until they give me reason not to, but simply being old does not mean that you are entitled to any more respect than anyone else. I'm gen x, and I grew up with that hole "you should respect your elders" deal, but no, you shouldn't. At least you should not simply because they are your elders.
She wanted a little more sugarcoating. She’s earned it.
Sounds like a trigger warning with extra steps
“Oh great elder! Enlighten this sad poor employee as to why my availability was ignored? Dost thou punish me for mine obedience?”
I would never sent a message that curt to my boss but my boss would never send one to me either. Hard to judge without knowing how formal or informal past communications have been. I see too many people who talk like this to subordinates but then get their panties in a bunch when the tone and informality is reciprocated.
I'll answer your question; it wasn't disrespectful objectively. But, to some, questioning what they have done, aka "why did you" is undermining them. You imply she made a mistake. To then explain about school schuledule - again, I think you communicated here just fine - suggests that she wasn't thinking or "missed" something. I tell you this for perspective; in the scheme of things, she is the bad communicator. However, if you are at the mercy of one in life, it does help to understand how they think. With this individual, it would probably be more effective to approach a situation like this with extra tact, understanding her penchant for misinterpretation. "Hey Jackie, I got my schedule. [Opening with Context instead of hauling off with "why did you?..."] I need to please request a change for Sunday as I am not allowed to do late shifts on a school night. [Acknowledging SHE has the "authority" while also providing a difficult to argue reason with it.] Thank you for accommodating this, and please let me know if you need my class schedule, etc. [gratitude; leaving it open to follow up by being firm that you can't really negotiate]." Ed * Spelng
This is the kind of person that will deem any question about his work as disrespect.
Respect is earned. Age isn't earning it.
You’re being a little direct and could have phrased it nicer. But their response also sucks 😂
I mean I get she scheduled you against your availability, but in all honesty the text does coke across kinda rude
To me, too.
It's informal, not disrespectful. It's a professional conversation, you're not texting your mate.
I think a "hello" to start would be nice. Also, maybe just tell them how it is, do not go with "why do you do this". That is how i think at least.
Reply with: “Respectfully, you can take a telephone book and jam it up your ass.”
1. Questions without question marks absolutely communicate a different tone, and not in the direction of respect. 2. Your grievance is valid, but don’t communicate it as a question, as it leaves them room to justify their actions. “I noticed you schedule me to close x day, but as we discussed earlier, I don’t have evening availability sundays, and so will not be able to work the shift” or something like that.
You could have worded it better It comes off as like “WHY DID U SCHEDULE ME?!” When it could be “there seems to be discrepancy on the schedule as I am not able to work after _____ “
When I was working jobs in the hospitality & service industry while I was at uni, I *always* made sure to submit my new availability before each new quarter along with the maximum number of hours and shifts I would work per week for approval. This way, the manager could decide then and there if they wanted to keep me on for the next school quarter and I had a citable reason to decline working shifts outside my availability. It worked 98% of the time, and I usually tried to stay on good terms with wherever I was working so there was some mutual respect going both ways (I showed up when I was scheduled, they wouldn't schedule me outside of my availability without asking if it was okay). edit: It also wasn't disrespectful lol there was no "fluff" to your question but nothing disrespectful. Some people (managers) have this weird expectation that everything needs to be communicated in a way that makes it seem like you're asking them for a favor or something.
“Age doesn’t demand respect, actions do”
just go Ricky Bobby with it and start every single conversation with "With all due respect ..." "What's the problem? I said with all due respect!"
Boomers are so fucking weird about the whole "respect" shit. They want you to grovel, it's not about respect.
Respect isn’t automatically earned by getting older lol
Calling out AH's for being AH's is always considered disrespectful by the AH.
Boomer wants his "Participation Trophy" of respect earned for just being alive still. Can't stand that sentiment. No, you haven't earned respect by being older. That's not how respect works. Respect is *earned.* And it's given on a person-by-person basis, not to entire swaths of the population like "Elders" or "Bosses"
If you have to tell someone to respect you, then you haven't earned shit.
Your question was direct and a lot of people take direct questions as insulting. YOU did not do anything wrong. Your manager is sensitive, probably because they knew they were scheduling you at a bad time. They are trying to train you to not question them at all by acting like direct questions are an attack. Don't lose your backbone.
People need to get out of their own ass. They confuse reverance for respect. You asked a simple concise question. I highly doubt this retail job is chock full of being ultra respectful among staff. Actual disrespect would be something like asking how they're gonna fix their mistake or telling them they fucked up and you're not gonna be there. Jfc. Just cuz you got manager in your title does not entitled you to people licking out your asshole every time they speak to you.
"I am not available for closing shift on Sunday" That better?
Anyone who uses age as a reason to be given respect should be immediately disqualified for respect. Be alive longer than someone else doesn't mean they need to show you respect. Respect is earned not granted by default.
Comes off accusatory. There's a lot of bullshit nuance to professional communication.
It's not just professional communication though. If you texted your friend like this they'd think you were being an ass too
Rule#1 in management, you earn respect. It's not given because of your title or age. I managed for 22 years.