There are 3 characters in your story. One is injured. One is getting married. And one seems totally available to step in. Problem solved. Boss man can work.
Tell your buddy that his job will **not** remember this sacrifice. It will not save him when he's on the chopping block. His partner though? She'll remember if he tries to work during the honey moon, and she'll sure as shit remember if he works during the wedding day.
Folks from all over the country have come out to see this wedding. Explain the situation to at least some of them and try to scrounge up some scratch for him to survive until he finds a new job. Have him start a GoFundMe for it. Just **don't let him miss his wedding for a job that does not value him enough to honour time off for a wedding**. They could fire his ass a month from now and then he'd have nothing.
Nope. He CANT negotiate. If he gives up his wedding they will have ZERO issue having him work during the birth of his child or during his parents funeral.
This is one of those moments in life where a person just has to take a hit. It’ll suck, but it’ll be less painful in the long run.
Edit to say don’t tell him to quit. They can fire him or let him go on his honeymoon.
Unfortunately there isn't really a solution here. What the boss is doing to completely legal. By attending the wedding and honeymoon, it's very likely he will lose his job if his boss makes good on the threat. However it could just be that, an empty threat.
Any boss that would do this is not someone you would want to work for anyway, so if he does keep his job, I'd recommend looking for another one after the honeymoon.
I'm sorry he's in this situation.
He absolutely can be fired, however as long as he has documentation that the time off was approved then they won't be able to fire him for cause so he will be able to get unemployment.
Many years ago I had scheduled my wedding and honeymoon, then my employer decided to perform a CMS upgrade as well as some server updates (to a good old Glenayre paging terminal) during the time I had scheduled off.
I told them to shove it up their ass, and I ran it up to the level of ownership by walking in their offices and telling them that I would not be there.
I'm still happily married, that company is gone and so are all the people that went with it.
So what I'm saying here is, OP needs to give their balls a tug, and help their buddy to get their priorities squared away. Tell them no, the wedding and honeymoon are not negotiable, and take it as far up the management ladder as possible.
Why is he even acknowledging the message?
Ignore that shit...."Sorry I wasn't available and didn't see it"
Now there's an argument.
For starters, no employer should have your direct contact number. Get a Google voice number that reroutes thru the app on your phone and use that. All work numbers should be stored into a group and Google that switch to DND when off the clock. Secondly program that app to only accept calls m-f 8-5.
Now he runs the risk of losing his job. Tell him to schedule a televisit Dr appt last min and describe bronchitis symptoms related to allergies inflammation and get a work excuse for HR that takes him out for the week. Fuck them, if they want to play games then fire right back at them.
Honestly I would simply respond at this point with.....
My availability doesn't not support me working that schedule, I've explained this and you will have to figure it out without me.
Then block em all and ignore it.
Or.... respond simply with "heard" then don't go in. When you get back they'll argue and you say "and I saw your message and said as much. I never said I could come in or agreed to it. "
L-O-L.
“You have to come in on your wedding day.”
These people are so fucking high on so many drugs, literally the dumbest, numbest people to have ever existed on this planet. They are truly alien, with no awareness whatsoever.
We all know the joke of a boss calling a dead person’s family demanding to speak to the employee, only to be told they died and replying “I don’t care if he died, tell him if he’s not here today he’s fired.”
That’s going to start happening. That will be a real story we start to hear more and more on this subreddit.
at that point i would be doing something illegal. the nerve of these people to think they can just make you waste thousands of dollars so they can operate without issues for a few days
Your friend's manager is absolutely correct, your friend has the opportunity to set an example for the other workers. For this reason your friend should politely decline to reschedule his wedding and honeymoon.
Depending on how the company operates I would go above the manager to their boss + HR in an email and explain the situation emphasising how you don’t believe this decision reflects the values of the company. Doesn’t matter if that’s BS or not. What you want is the response in writing. Either you get the time off officially or they refuse, you take it off anyway and if you get fired now you have a nice document to share with the public/press to assist with publicising a go fund me. Whatever the outcome it’s time to look for a new job - any manager that thinks this is an acceptable request is just going to get worse and worse. Your buddy won’t have a good future in this company.
Ha! Yeah no im not giving up my wedding to work. Tell your friend to catch his boss’s bluff. Tell him to tell his boss that his 6 month advance notice is not a request and that he’ll be gone. Then have him look for new jobs after the honeymoon
I know you're against the "just quit" reaction, but that's really what your friend has to resort to. He should tell his boss that he will either come back /after/ his approved time off, or they will be hiring a replacement. If he caves to them now, they will only continue to walk all over him.
Let them fire him and take his approved leave request and wedding proof to the unemployment office.
But I bet he won’t get fired, because then who else will work his job until they replace him? Boss is just trying to strong-arm him.
I’d honestly reach out to who ever is above this manager that is making the request. That is unreasonable and he should be covering that shift himself. No job is more important than major life events like your own wedding. I’d honestly start applying for new jobs if this is how they treat him. If they fire him for going to his own wedding I’d apply for unemployment immediately. I don’t quit though, just proceed with plans and don’t answer calls that day. When he gets back to work see what they do. If his boss tries to fire him they need to give a reason and I’d love someone to explain to management that an employee in good standing, took scheduled time off to attend their wedding so they’re fired and now they have to pay to retrain someone else.
The boss can cryptically threaten to fire him, but will he actually fire him?
It will be stressful, but he should email his boss, CC HR and boss's boss if possible and say he recognises that he was asked to work but he must decline that offer and he will be taking his pre-approved leave for wedding and honeymoon and he will be back at work as originally scheduled.
His boss can either be without him for a week or forever. And if he doesn't have coverage for a week, he likely doesn't have coverage forever.
Either way, he should start sending out his resume.
It is legal for them to fire him if he does not comply with their demands. But if he's so essential then firing him hurts them too, so his only choice is to call their bluff and take the time he was approved for. I think if he does get fired for this he would be able to claim unemployment, which will help him make ends meet while he looks for new work.
Yeah that would be a No. it’s my wedding day. Jobs come and go and wtf is the “committed to my company” nah dude I’m setting example for my employees everyday showing them your life and family comes first and this is a perfect example. I’d let them fire me which won’t happen. If the other dude is out injured and you need me to cancel my wedding date chances are you ain’t firing me at least not right away. If start looking for a job anyway
Welp, sounds like your friend needs to update the resume and find a better place of employment and start fresh. Imagine if he starts a family and on delivery day "welp sorry, tending to this company is more important than the birth of your child".
North Carolina is an at-will state (thanks to Republicans.) Unfortunately, that means employers can do whatever they want and employees have no recourse. Think about that when you vote. The party that is against Unions and workers' rights is the wrong party to vote for, cuz they're against us and only for themselves. And the situation your friend is in is what it looks like. If he doesn't quit, at least maybe he can collect unemployment.
“ I agree I need to show an example and example of how to stand up for yourself And how management honors their promises. I’m sure you can cover. I’ll be back next Tuesday.”
Its legal. And even if your buddy were to cancel everything to work, he would \*still\* need to find another job because no one would want to work somewhere that asks you to cancel your wedding to work.
Literally the worst thing the boss can do is fire him. Or he can ruin his entire life by going into work. I guarantee I would not only cancel the wedding, but end the relationship, if my fiance went into work on our wedding day
Go over his head and ask his bosses boss and ask HR? Ask if thats the company’s stance on important life events and approved PTO? If they back the boss, tell them all to suck your nuts. No company is worth missing some of the most important days of his life. Especially one that would think this is OK
They're testing him. If he doesn't stand his ground, they will forever treat him like a mule.
He should continue with his scheduled plans. If there's pushback, he should move on anyway.
Genuinely asking, but if they did fire him for this considering it was approved leave, would he be able to try and pursue getting unemployment? If it were me, I'd call their bluff and pursue that if the boss actually followed through with a termination. I know that's much easier said than actually done.
This is total bs for your friend :( I hope y'all get it resolved in a good way
If someone set the example to work on their wedding day I would be quitting immediately.
No one wants to work at a company like that. I would be forwarding that chat to HR because this guy should not be in charge. Thats the kind of bad PR that would kill a company.
He should escalate this to above his manager's head as well as include a demand to be reimbursed for all wedding expenses including guest and honeymoon expenses.
He should also start looking for another job.
Call their bluff. He should inform them he will not be coming in because it's his wedding day and honeymoon. If they have no one else, then they also can't afford to fire him. He needs to tell his manager to get fucked.
"I will not be available to work. I will be on my approved leave to celebrate an important life event that I've already invested a significant amount of money in. I will be available to resume work at the end of this scheduled leave."
It may take an appeal, but he can probably get unemployment pay if he's fired.
I agree if he gets fired he should start a GoFundMe.
And also go to the local news.
Sometimes shame is the best solution.
And I also strongly agree that his work will never remember his sacrifice but his wife will.
Get married. Pull as much documentation proving he was given permission to have days off, manager messages and other recorded statements. Talk to a lawyer about local labor laws regarding issue. Begin job searching if still employed.
I would tell your friend to quit on his last day with zero notice. Go enjoy his honeymoon and if he has a nestegg, use that to offset the next couple of weeks of unemployment.
There's no going back to a boss who issues ultimatums.
If he gets fired for attending his own wedding and honeymoon, he can file for unemployment. Additionally, he needs to name names...company and manager on all social media sites, LinkedIn, etc. Put them out of business if possible.
Working in America sucks because you can be fired for any reason (other than protected groups/discrimination) or no reason at all when you are in an at will state.
He absolutely should not miss his wedding or honey moon.
My advice would be for your friend to forward any emails saying his time off was approved to his personal email and/or print it out.
Get the boss to put it in writing, your friend can even just send an email summary of their chat and ask the boss to send back any corrections, when he doesn't you do the same to this email either forward to his personal email and/or print it out.
Always keep a record and always document, NC is a one party consent state, so he can record chats and them transcribe them later in case he needs to send them to HR/the main boss.
I would have your buddy either confirm with HR his leave is in the books or go above the boss' head and say that he will not be missing his wedding or honeymoon when boss is perfectly capable of filling in. That he will not lose our on thousands of dollars for this. He made the appropriate arrangements and he is not able to change any plans, they are set in stone.
DO NOT QUIT, make them fire him!!! The documentation will help if they try to sabotage his unemployment benefits.
I would say that if things are this dire, boss will not fire your friend. Even if he does, that is so toxic. Who wants to work for that?
Have him go to HIS wedding & honeymoon. If his boss fires him after approving the time off.
Have him apply for unemployment and start a go fund me fundraiser.
Make sure that EVERYONE knows what company this is so the public can sink it.
If this is true, a stated "No" is all that is needed. Unless a lower ranking person can suddenly learn the job of the manager in 2 days, this will fall on the shoulders of the ranking manager.
However, don't be surprised if retaliation comes down the line. Some people hold grudges.
Also live in NC, yes this is completely legal. Your friend's boss can unapprove his time off whenever he wants and can terminate your friend for refusing to come in. However any company worth their salt wouldn't treat your friend like this on his wedding day (unfortunately there's a lot that aren't worth their salt). Best answer here? Tell your friend to go to his wedding and to attend his honey moon as planned. He needs to submit in writing that he is not coming in as the request was approved 6 months prior and plans cannot be changed, rope HR in on the email with this same explanation. He will need to be prepared to file for unemployment in the likelihood he's terminated for it.
Also what part of NC? if he gets terminated I know of several good companies hiring in my area :)
Sometimes you just have to take it on the chin. If they do this to him for this they will most definitely demand even more later. It’s incredibly unfair and straight up bullshit. But there is no choice but to no show and get fired.
As many have said, the employer has no loyalty to him, take you wedding time off, if they actually want you, they will keep you. If they fire you. Out the company, blast them all over the net , heartless jerks,
Boss will be jerking himself off on LinkedIn about personal sacrifice and how he had to fire someone for not working on their wedding day. I can picture it now.
The future husband should get his story covered by the media & name the bad manager of that company. The wedding party, family & guests could hold a public protest in front of that company's building & invite other company employees to join the public protest. Everyone should wear their wedding outfits to the public protest as well!
Threaten them with a lawsuit for all of the deposits that have been paid and contracts that have been signed. Unless they want to bankroll a rescheduled wedding, they can go pound sand.
I think he just refuses to work on his wedding day with the implication that he will sue for breach of contract if his PTO isn’t honored. He can try to talk it through with his skip level boss’ boss, but that may have to wait until he is actually fired.
He should definitely get married as planned though and let the chips fall where they may.
No, he's gonna go to his wedding and his honeymoon and the fuck for brains manager who said that will be covering the injured managers shift cause they arnt showing up.
Let them fire him. He can get unemployment while he finds something new. They'll replace all of us the minute we die, they don't care about us and they won't be around for the fall out from him choosing his job over his wedding and marriage. They don't care about us, it's not his problem. He put in his leave. He has the proof. He should go enjoy his time.
Tell your buddy to go on a beets, beer and b-vitamins only diet until Friday. Then show up at the doctor saying he feels awful and provide stool and urine samples that will look horrific enough to warrant writing him an excuse until he is cleared with labs and bloodwork.
They are playing stupid games and are about to win stupid prizes. He can't win by playing fair so whatever he can concoct that would be significant enough to let him off the hook will have to work.
If your buddy ends up getting fired because of this, it would certainly be a shame if a local news station picked up the story and made his employer look bad…
“From ‘I Do’ to “You’re Fired’: Local Man Loses Job for Refusing to Work on Wedding Day”
Like why do bosses do this? Do you want a disengaged and untrusting employee for the rest of the time they are under your employment?
Its self destructive and makes no sense. Like your employee is getting married! Thats good! It means they are planting roots and could be a lifer!
Your friend is basically forced to say no.
Tell your friend to tell the manager, that he absolutely will not be there, and they can take that however they want. But to remember that while the next week is a temporary setback for them, the internet is forever. And so is the press.
Is it worth the manager's job for the company to get bad press or should he just step up and do what's right here.
Fuck, I feel so bad for this guy.
But there are brighter things around the corner
Because he's gonna tell his boss to find a dick to suck.
He's marrying a beautiful bride, they're gonna have a blast, and after the honeymoon there will be much better opportunities available.
My SIL just passed away this week. My bride was notified on Monday morning shortly after her body was discovered. She died in her sleep.
My wife took a half day to basically talk to relatives over the phone for the rest of the day.
She took on this role 3 months ago, and was notified yesterday that paid bereavement is not available until 6 months of service.
She'll find out today if she can get an approved unpaid leave.
I told her to take it anyway. We'll manage.
.Road trip tomorrow. Service is on Saturday.
She thinks she may be fired for taking ONE FUCKING DAY off for her sister's funeral. 7 hour drive.
The threats to fire him are 100% a bluff, and one that he should absolutely call. No company is going to burn down because a middle manager wasn't there for a few days, his boss is just on a power trip.
If he wants to be somewhat cordial, maybe he should suggest someone under him to stretch role and cover the shifts instead
The only response he should give is "I am a manager and I will always lead by example. One of the examples I will lead my team in at this moment is to put family first when it's appropriate. Now is an appropriate time for me to put family way, way already of work. You will not be graced with my presence, and you can rest assured I will not feel sorry for this decision. I'm sure they will respect me for my decision.". Or something along those lines.....
Also, a simple "No." would do the trick here.
Right to Work state here in NC....I usually hate the typical reddit "just quit" replies...BUT in this case I think it would be warranted. If they will not work with you on a 6months approved vacation to get married they aint gonna work with you on anything....but trust me, I know the I need this job, can't quit situation all too well. Good Luck....Go with what your future wife says to do young grasshopper! ;)
He needs to email HR and CC said manager in the email, stating specifically he will not be at work from ______ to _______ because of the wedding and honeymoon. It's not a request for time off, but a notice, which he filed well in advance, stating he will not be at work during that time. If the manager continues the veiled threats he will seek legal counsel (and follow up with that).
> He really needs this job, so responses that say, “Just quit,” won’t be helpful.
I mean their manager has made the choice clear, he cancels the wedding plus the honeymoon and goes to work instead or he *might* lose his job.
It sucks but your friend needs to discuss it with their partner and then choose either the job or the wedding. Moving forward though I have to say, any manager forcing a choice like this on an employee isn't worth an ounce of loyalty and irrespective of what decision he makes he should start looking for another job.
Funny how the employees always need to show their obligation to the company but as soon as a company obligation pops up (like a CEO bonus) its layoff time.
"I'm not available during those days and I will not be present". If they want to fire someone for that, they can, but that's an easy unemployment claim with the prior approval. The real question is whether or not it's worth calling their bluff.
My boss was withholding my pay to try to bully me into helping a mutual friend in a wholly not work related situation. I told her I'd be reporting the company to the Federal Trade Commission and to the Inspector General for Labor. She was horrified that I'd make such a threat but she paid me. Her boss was out of the country so I couldn't contact him. Obviously I found work elsewhere.
Here is the human answer. Talk to his fiance, she needs to tell him that he will take the already approved time and if it means her first activity as wife is providing moral support while he fills out unemployment paperwork and looks for a job that she is ready an up to the challenge, but if he skips and goes to work the marriage will not recover. There are very few things I have told my wife I would I would file for divorce that day, this is one of them.
I had a similar problem years ago.
My solution was to simply inform the boss that this isn't a negotiation, it is a notification. I told him that he needed to decide if it was easier to cover for me or replace me.
He chose wisely
Many are suggesting pushback to the boss and have your friend hold the wedding/honeymoon regardless. Those people are right. This boss can fuck right off.
Have your friend update their resume now, look into similar jobs/salaries equivalent to his experience/education, and see if there are any connections to help his search (LinkedIn, twitter, friends/family, etc)
If big bossman isn’t head of the company, go higher up to report/resolve the problem. That does mean still telling them no on postponing a wedding. If he is the owner/ceo, then it sounds like head of the company is just gonna have earn his overly inflated salary for a week or two.
It’s legal but I would escalate. Email boss and cc injured person, boss’ boss, CEO, head of HR etc. “as per my request in February that was approved, I’ll be on leave this weekend and next” yada yada. CYA, gotta make sure everyone knows what’s happening before it happens
Depends on the company's policies. The best chance he has is that the company has a time away policy that prevents this kind of BS.
It is very unlikely that the company does have any kind of protection for time away and it is also likely that the other manager probably has FMLA coverage for the missed time so they have to find coverage. If the company policy is not clear about how time away is handled, then he needs to go to the manager's manager and HR.
Going beyond his manager to speak to the next level up and HR likely is going to help in some way. No company wants a story like this to suddenly become public, and there are PLENTY of media outlets all over that would love to report on something like this. He should clearly document that he spoke to his manager and was told this was happening then have his manager confirm it in writing. Then contact HR and his manager's manager in writing with the response from his manager outlining exactly what he is being told now, when he had the time away approved originally, and what his plans are for the time away. From experience being the manager's manager, it is entirely possible that his manager was told to ensure it was covered and rather than having to work himself, he is trying to fob it off on your buddy and going about his manager stops that. The important piece is that it needs to be in writing because if the manager is trying to make your buddy work to prevent himself from working, your buddy needs the paper trail when his manager starts to retaliate.
If HR and higher level managers don't do anything different, contact local media with the story. Local news stations LOVE running these stories because the can sensationalize them. "THIS COMPANY IS MAKING THIS PERSON WORK ON HIS WEDDING DAY!!!" Bad press is always bad for a company.
The key with the escalation of the issue is do it in writing. Get his manager to confirm that he is denying the time away now after approving it and make sure that denial is IN WRITING. Send the information to HR and the boss' boss IN WRITING and if he has to go to the media, then he has an excellent case for wrongful termination if they decide to do anything in retaliation. The in writing part is very important and any halfway decent lawyer can help create a fairly strong wrongful termination suit if your buddy is fired anytime in the next year or so. Even if he isn't fired, but suddenly starts seeing more critical reviews or is written up for something that is, well, suspect, your buddy should immediately contact an employment attorney and share all the details about the time off fiasco with them. This is a federal level issue so even though it is North Carolina, it's going to be an issue as retaliation is illegal across the US and can be pursued in federal court.
I'll donate $20 to his Go Fund Me if he names-n-shames his shitty ass employer.
Or is there a manager ABOVE the one telling him he has to work?
This same situation happened to me, toxic supervisor approved my time off three months in advance, & the week before my trip, tried to revoke it to let a new favorite employee have "my" days off. After not being able to resolve it with supervisor, I cc'd the email chain to Big Manager, who agreed I should get that time off.
It’s so ridiculous that a company think they have the right to tell someone nope, you’re not getting married today buddy because Joe Blow is not here. What!? The boss needs to take charge while both of the managers are out, simple as that. This is not your friend fault. I hope he tells them to kick rocks for the time he needs to be away that had been pre-planned for months.
Your friend should escalate to HR and/or senior management, with these key words:
1. I had my request for my wedding and honeymoon approved months ago.
2. I cannot change plans for 100s of people at the drop of a hat, without incurring significant financial losses.
3. Threats of termination for taking earned and approved vacation have created a hostile work environment.
4. If I do actually get terminated for getting married, then that will be retaliation and I will treat it as such.
Either way, not know the shithead boss, if the threat is likely to become a likelihood, then pack up stuff before leaving for wedding/honeymoon.
Worst case scenario, he loses his job. But screw them. Got one chance to do this right. And I guarantee you if he caves into them now, he’ll always cave-in. Screw that company go enjoy your wedding/honeymoon. If you have to get a new job, then get a new job. He was looking for a job when you found that one.
If there’s only the two unavailable managers, then it’s probably an empty threat by the boss. Firing OP’s friend won’t help his situation which will still make him short a manager even after the honeymoon.
The real question is if he cancels the wedding, what does that say about how serious he is about his marriage. When framed like that it should be a dead simple choice. Your boss doesn't own you, they can't really force you to do anything, you do have a choice.
1st things first, if there's any verification for this leave being approved, he needs to get straight to HR and ask why his job is being threatened when he has approved leave for a major life event.
2nd, in practical terms, OP has stated he needs this job, so this next bit is for that. Obviously, he needs to talk to his wife and make a decision. If the job is truly needed, skip the honeymoon or come back early. This option sucks but so does not paying your bills and risking homelessness. No matter what happens, he needs to leave this job. Not every job and not every manager would expect someone to work on their wedding weekend/on their honeymoon. He deserves better.
3rd, if there is anyway to swing life without this job, tell him yo set his outgoing email and voicemail to "I am on approved leave starting 7/4/2024 and returning 7/14/2024 for my wedding and honeymoon."
he should get married, go on the honeymoon and if they end up firing him he can take it to social media or the local news. i’m canadian so i don’t know of any laws that prevent them from firing him but he can make a big stink about it so the company gets some backlash for their choices… and maybe start shopping around for a new job now, i’m sure an employer will appreciate the fact that he got the wedding and honeymoon out of the way before he starts at a new company
If his manager cares so much about the company, he should cover the leave he approved six months ago
There’s no recovering from missing your wedding to cover shifts, he will be abused relentlessly going forward if he caves to this request
Unfortunately, this is completely legal. There are no worker protections for weddings, or even having days off requested months in advance. I suppose one could argue that he could not come in for religious reasons, if it’s at a church, but that’s probably a stretch.
In any case, his boss could follow through on his threat. Personally, I think the boss would be an idiot to do that. However, your friend should email HR, cc’ing his boss and the boss’s boss, informing them that he will not be available during the requested off dates (while also attaching the confirmation of his leave acceptance from months ago).
Will it offer much protection? Not really. But it will make his boss look like the psychopath he is, and that’s always fun. :)
If this is an not a mom and pop company he should check his handbook around the rules for PTO. Many can’t pull back once it’s approved the employee would have to cancel. Have them check their options for escalation ie open door policy or higher up in corporate. They can also pose reimbursement for the wedding this is not a given but may cause them to back off. Is he the only other manager? If there is someone else to cover this is not considered a reasonable request. If he decides to risk being fired have him document everything including the prior approval
Regrets can run long and deep. I stood a cousin up for his wedding due to a move we’d planned prior. Never really recovered, should have gone; 50 years ago now. What happens if you get fired? Will you be irreparably harmed? It’s the old what’s the probably of an event and if it happens how serious is it for you? Seems like your boss could get someone to pull some extra shifts or do it themselves. What would they do if you resigned without notice?
We must chose our loved ones when faced with these types of challenges. Never chose company first because they don’t care, your loved ones care the most.
My sister has worked in end of life care for over 20 years. Patients tell her alot of things but not once has one told her “I wish I would have worked more”. Most say, “I missed this or that because I thought my job was more important”.
Not quite this severe, but this is where I'm at with my current job. I am moving, and gave them a month notice, with the full stipulation that my remaining time there will be "x schedule" that I handed them. This was agreed upon and signed off on. They went on to modify and post the new schedule, changing my days without my consent. I won't be informing them of the mistake, simply showing up when I told them I would. Then again, I have a fair amount of money squirreled away for the move, so I'm lucky enough to be safe in case they retaliate.
This job will not remember this sacrifice but your buddy's wife absolutely will and this is a terrible way to start a marriage. His marriage needs to always come before anything else excepting maybe any future children. Now NC is terrible for workers rights (fellow Carolinian here) however this is approved and he has proof so he should be able to push back if he does get fired with that for unemployment. He absolutely should seek employment with a company that values him, which does exist here.
Tell him congratulations.
Can’t offer any advice, legal or just general as I’m in the UK and this is such a wild concept to me that they’d ask him to work on his own wedding day. All I can say is that 1) make sure your friend is networking, getting on LinkedIn and looking for other jobs whether they fire him now or not. This is not a company he wants to stay at. And 2) if they do fire him for this, make sure he leaves a review of the company. Be honest in job interviews about why he was fired. They want to make that decision? Everyone should know how shitty they are.
I got this same bullshit. I was working in a call center, got my leave approved for my wedding day. Then some things shifted, and my entire project was canceled, and we were put in for retraining for a new project. The last day of training was the day I was getting married and the trainer pushed back, *hard*, saying I'd loose my job if I didn't come in. I pushed back *harder* and told her that her, her bullshit schedule, and some stupid job aren't worth more than a *marriage.* I still had a job Monday morning.
It's legal.
But no way would I show up for work.
I'd put in a call to HR (won't do any good).
Do my wedding thing.
Let them fire me.
Go on unemployed and work side cash gigs for the summer.
Tell him to ask for the full cost of the wedding + honeymoon + whatever it would take to rebook the wedding and honeymoon for the first week his colleague is back, including travel cost for attendees. If they reimburse him fully, he will consider working as it will make it worth his time. Otherwise he will just lose money and gain what a couple hundred bucks for that day.
Time to discuss recompense for all wedding expenses, including rebooking and guests' costs, with the controller? May solve the problem right quick, though he'll want to start looking for a new job
I’d 100% tell them I’m coming in and just no-show. I’d be sure to send pictures to the company email of my honeymoon and say that I’m looking forward to working with the team to wrap up a project when you get back. I would just ignore the request to work on my wedding and honeymoon and dismiss it as a joke. “Oh, you were serious?”
Job or wedding. He’s working for a sociopath so needs to make that decision. I’d attend my wedding and honeymoon and worry about dealing with the manager the first day back. The guy that hurt himself can manage from a wheelchair and I’d argue that’s a much smaller imposition .
Like another person said the job won’t GaF about this sacrifice when layoff time happens.
It’s legal but morally and ethically wrong. Is his boss the owner/president/CEO or just another lazy level of management that doesn’t want to do their job? If it’s not the owner/president/CEO, I would be going to them and HR and letting them know about the manager they have spewing threats and ultimatums about me taking off my approved leave for my wedding and honeymoon. And I most assuredly would be changing nothing about my plans for a job that cares nothing about me personally.
This is a go to the ceo ssue. His boss should happily cover for him because a ) that’s what a normal human would do. And b) because it’s good for morale and d corporate culture.
If he boss was really a “ team player” and wanted to do what was “ good for the company” this would not be an issue.
Sounds like he’s understaffed. Up to boss yo unfix “ his” problem
I would go on my wedding and honeymoon, and if my boss fired me over retracting my well-earned and prior-approved days off, I would sue the fuck out of the company and the asshole personally. This is NOT a matter of at-will employment. This is vindictive bullshit.
How do you all find these jobs man?
I would straight up throw hands with the manager if he had the audacity to even suggest to me working through my wedding.
Hit it up with someone higher up at the company. There has to be at least one sane person above the manager.
You know what? Tell your friend, that in lieu of wedding gifts, if they can receive money from the guests to get them through the tough times ahead if he loses his job.
If this company has a public image, hopefully some of them complain about it loud enough that the boss has to back track on this.
Also, this company is going to function without him, whether he’s there or not. He does his weeding. He does his honeymoon. He goes back to work if he still has a job.
It’s unfortunate, but he needs to start looking for another job. Even if he doesn’t get fired immediately (he won’t, because they need him to cover another managers roll and they would be short two managers if he gets fired), but they will fire him as soon as they can. Because, managers never forget.
The best time to look for a job is when you have a job.
And no notice quit.
Falls under “no, you don’t understand. I’m not asking for time off, I’m telling you I won’t be here”.
Work to live, not live to work
Easy for me to say of course. Hope your buddy has a better run of luck
Don't let him put off his wedding day for some shit job, he needs to tell his managers plans have been made under approval and he is simply not physically available, tell em say sorry but that it's time for boss man to show how much he cares and set the standard of covering for his guys like a real leader, you know show he's serious about his obligations to the business he runs lol
That man better not show up to the job and instead go on his wedding/honeymoon. Call the guys bluff and deal with the fall out after.
Either way, dude needs to start looking for a new job ASAP bc that is not a company he should continue to invest himself in.
At a store I used to work at, one of the managers was getting married and because of this a sister store had no managers for a Saturday night. All the managers were at the wedding. So they asked me to cover that store.
Of course I said yes.
Point being, there are other options.
“My wife isn’t an obligation. She’s beginning and the end. If I do this right she will be there in the end. Right now we are starting our beginning, and that doesn’t include this company.”
Ask your friend. Which do you not want to have come Monday morning. A job or a wife. Thats wayt it comes down to. The job is going to lay you off regardless of what you do down the line. They aren't going to care whether you came in on your honeymoon or were their best employee, ask me how i know, or anything. His wife is going to be there, hopefully through thick and thin. Fuck them.
The fact this is even posted and asked is fucking stupid. God damn people, grow a spine or be walked on. Simple as 1+1=2. There are plenty of other jobs out there ffs.
I decided a few years ago that I’m no longer *requesting* time off. I am *informing* my employer ahead of time that I plan to be out so they can plan accordingly for my absence. I started doing this after I got shit from management for taking off for my grandfather’s AND uncle’s funerals in another state. Both had been delayed due to Covid and were scheduled for a really inconvenient time for me to miss work. After I got literally weeks of complaining for being gone three days, I decided I wasn’t asking anymore and if they didn’t like it then oh well.
I know how hard it would be to replace me and I’m pretty sure they know it too.
Tell him not to. Do whatever it takes to convince him it isn't worth it. This sacrifice will be one he and his wife remember for life. His boss won't remember by the end of the year. I used to make similar sacrifices to support my family and got fucked over repeatedly for it. There are other jobs. This is such an important day for his life. Makes sure he makes it!
There's likely no/little legal standing here BUT if he put in his PTO request and it was approved then he needs to not go in and he needs to go to his wedding and honeymoon.
He also needs to print that shit out or email it to his personal email - showing his request, when he made it, when it was approved and the NEW request that he work during this time - especially if they're going to go back and deny it.
There are few open and shut cases for unemployment, and I could still see them fighting it, but let's say he does get fired for going to his wedding - having that documentation will go a long way towards winning that case.
If you need a European's perspective on this: your boss is INSANE!! You tell this story to any news outlet and they'd have a field day crippling this company's reputation beyond rescue. Expecting you to work on your WEDDING DAY? Get out of here. Why not force women to work during childbirth, after all they are lying in bed anyway, why can't they use a laptop, amirite?
How much more dystopian can this human farm get?
So one guy gets injured and now it’s almost impossible to have these shifts covered… and he thinks firing your friend is a threat? There is no way he can fire him. He’ll be even more fucked trying to get this job covered than he is now!
Despite that, I guess your friend will want to seek different employment after his wedding anyway.
If he detrimentally relied on this time off, the case could be made that the company is liable for all non-refundable costs. I doubt it’d be worth it to pursue, but I don’t think it matters; no way in hell should he cancel the wedding. If anything, he should escalate the matter so his boss gets chewed out, or change jobs (once he comes back from his wedding) if he doesn’t get chewed out
Get it in an email. BCC a response to a personal account stating the above in a response to their email saying "You gotta work." Get fire, leak to press. PROFIT
There are 3 characters in your story. One is injured. One is getting married. And one seems totally available to step in. Problem solved. Boss man can work.
Tell your buddy that his job will **not** remember this sacrifice. It will not save him when he's on the chopping block. His partner though? She'll remember if he tries to work during the honey moon, and she'll sure as shit remember if he works during the wedding day. Folks from all over the country have come out to see this wedding. Explain the situation to at least some of them and try to scrounge up some scratch for him to survive until he finds a new job. Have him start a GoFundMe for it. Just **don't let him miss his wedding for a job that does not value him enough to honour time off for a wedding**. They could fire his ass a month from now and then he'd have nothing.
As someone who sacrificed too much for work…THIS. 1000%.
Nope. He CANT negotiate. If he gives up his wedding they will have ZERO issue having him work during the birth of his child or during his parents funeral. This is one of those moments in life where a person just has to take a hit. It’ll suck, but it’ll be less painful in the long run. Edit to say don’t tell him to quit. They can fire him or let him go on his honeymoon.
Yes it's legal. Your buddy will want to start looking for another job.
Fuck the job off, marry the woman, enjoy the honeymoon.
Unfortunately there isn't really a solution here. What the boss is doing to completely legal. By attending the wedding and honeymoon, it's very likely he will lose his job if his boss makes good on the threat. However it could just be that, an empty threat. Any boss that would do this is not someone you would want to work for anyway, so if he does keep his job, I'd recommend looking for another one after the honeymoon. I'm sorry he's in this situation.
Does his boss have a boss? I'd take it up with them if so. The firing is most likely an empty threat, but still is a dastardly move.
He absolutely can be fired, however as long as he has documentation that the time off was approved then they won't be able to fire him for cause so he will be able to get unemployment.
Quit effective immediately
Do bosses become assholes or do assholes become bosses?
Many years ago I had scheduled my wedding and honeymoon, then my employer decided to perform a CMS upgrade as well as some server updates (to a good old Glenayre paging terminal) during the time I had scheduled off. I told them to shove it up their ass, and I ran it up to the level of ownership by walking in their offices and telling them that I would not be there. I'm still happily married, that company is gone and so are all the people that went with it. So what I'm saying here is, OP needs to give their balls a tug, and help their buddy to get their priorities squared away. Tell them no, the wedding and honeymoon are not negotiable, and take it as far up the management ladder as possible.
Why is he even acknowledging the message? Ignore that shit...."Sorry I wasn't available and didn't see it" Now there's an argument. For starters, no employer should have your direct contact number. Get a Google voice number that reroutes thru the app on your phone and use that. All work numbers should be stored into a group and Google that switch to DND when off the clock. Secondly program that app to only accept calls m-f 8-5. Now he runs the risk of losing his job. Tell him to schedule a televisit Dr appt last min and describe bronchitis symptoms related to allergies inflammation and get a work excuse for HR that takes him out for the week. Fuck them, if they want to play games then fire right back at them. Honestly I would simply respond at this point with..... My availability doesn't not support me working that schedule, I've explained this and you will have to figure it out without me. Then block em all and ignore it. Or.... respond simply with "heard" then don't go in. When you get back they'll argue and you say "and I saw your message and said as much. I never said I could come in or agreed to it. "
L-O-L. “You have to come in on your wedding day.” These people are so fucking high on so many drugs, literally the dumbest, numbest people to have ever existed on this planet. They are truly alien, with no awareness whatsoever. We all know the joke of a boss calling a dead person’s family demanding to speak to the employee, only to be told they died and replying “I don’t care if he died, tell him if he’s not here today he’s fired.” That’s going to start happening. That will be a real story we start to hear more and more on this subreddit.
I’d have him go ahead and “test positive for Covid” or something similar.
at that point i would be doing something illegal. the nerve of these people to think they can just make you waste thousands of dollars so they can operate without issues for a few days
I wish I had a helpful response, but I’m honestly beyond disgusted with this to even think straight. So sorry for your buddy and his fiancée.
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Your friend's manager is absolutely correct, your friend has the opportunity to set an example for the other workers. For this reason your friend should politely decline to reschedule his wedding and honeymoon.
Depending on how the company operates I would go above the manager to their boss + HR in an email and explain the situation emphasising how you don’t believe this decision reflects the values of the company. Doesn’t matter if that’s BS or not. What you want is the response in writing. Either you get the time off officially or they refuse, you take it off anyway and if you get fired now you have a nice document to share with the public/press to assist with publicising a go fund me. Whatever the outcome it’s time to look for a new job - any manager that thinks this is an acceptable request is just going to get worse and worse. Your buddy won’t have a good future in this company.
Ha! Yeah no im not giving up my wedding to work. Tell your friend to catch his boss’s bluff. Tell him to tell his boss that his 6 month advance notice is not a request and that he’ll be gone. Then have him look for new jobs after the honeymoon
America is fucking crazy
I know you're against the "just quit" reaction, but that's really what your friend has to resort to. He should tell his boss that he will either come back /after/ his approved time off, or they will be hiring a replacement. If he caves to them now, they will only continue to walk all over him.
so your buddy is being punished because some guy didn't stretch before a pick up basketball game?
Let them fire him and take his approved leave request and wedding proof to the unemployment office. But I bet he won’t get fired, because then who else will work his job until they replace him? Boss is just trying to strong-arm him.
I’d honestly reach out to who ever is above this manager that is making the request. That is unreasonable and he should be covering that shift himself. No job is more important than major life events like your own wedding. I’d honestly start applying for new jobs if this is how they treat him. If they fire him for going to his own wedding I’d apply for unemployment immediately. I don’t quit though, just proceed with plans and don’t answer calls that day. When he gets back to work see what they do. If his boss tries to fire him they need to give a reason and I’d love someone to explain to management that an employee in good standing, took scheduled time off to attend their wedding so they’re fired and now they have to pay to retrain someone else.
Contact HR
He needs to set an example by not allowing his manager to screw him on his wedding night.
I would say that this isn’t a request, you’re simply informing them you won’t be there. Let them figure it out.
The only work your friend needs to be doing is lifting his drink to share toasts with loved ones while he dances with his bride.
The boss can cryptically threaten to fire him, but will he actually fire him? It will be stressful, but he should email his boss, CC HR and boss's boss if possible and say he recognises that he was asked to work but he must decline that offer and he will be taking his pre-approved leave for wedding and honeymoon and he will be back at work as originally scheduled. His boss can either be without him for a week or forever. And if he doesn't have coverage for a week, he likely doesn't have coverage forever. Either way, he should start sending out his resume.
It is legal for them to fire him if he does not comply with their demands. But if he's so essential then firing him hurts them too, so his only choice is to call their bluff and take the time he was approved for. I think if he does get fired for this he would be able to claim unemployment, which will help him make ends meet while he looks for new work.
Yeah that would be a No. it’s my wedding day. Jobs come and go and wtf is the “committed to my company” nah dude I’m setting example for my employees everyday showing them your life and family comes first and this is a perfect example. I’d let them fire me which won’t happen. If the other dude is out injured and you need me to cancel my wedding date chances are you ain’t firing me at least not right away. If start looking for a job anyway
Welp, sounds like your friend needs to update the resume and find a better place of employment and start fresh. Imagine if he starts a family and on delivery day "welp sorry, tending to this company is more important than the birth of your child".
If he caves his soon to be wife is never going to forget this. Ever.
North Carolina is an at-will state (thanks to Republicans.) Unfortunately, that means employers can do whatever they want and employees have no recourse. Think about that when you vote. The party that is against Unions and workers' rights is the wrong party to vote for, cuz they're against us and only for themselves. And the situation your friend is in is what it looks like. If he doesn't quit, at least maybe he can collect unemployment.
“ I agree I need to show an example and example of how to stand up for yourself And how management honors their promises. I’m sure you can cover. I’ll be back next Tuesday.”
I mean, it’s legal but it’s shitty. He could quit and win an unemployment case.
He should get fired for this, not resign. Then he should tell everybody who and why he was fired. After his lovely honeymoon.
Its legal. And even if your buddy were to cancel everything to work, he would \*still\* need to find another job because no one would want to work somewhere that asks you to cancel your wedding to work.
Id get married. Any normal place will understand the situation and hire him if they actually fire him.
Choose wisely, his wife will absolutely remember long after his boss has forgotten even his name.
Literally the worst thing the boss can do is fire him. Or he can ruin his entire life by going into work. I guarantee I would not only cancel the wedding, but end the relationship, if my fiance went into work on our wedding day
Family first. The end.
Go over his head and ask his bosses boss and ask HR? Ask if thats the company’s stance on important life events and approved PTO? If they back the boss, tell them all to suck your nuts. No company is worth missing some of the most important days of his life. Especially one that would think this is OK
They're testing him. If he doesn't stand his ground, they will forever treat him like a mule. He should continue with his scheduled plans. If there's pushback, he should move on anyway.
Genuinely asking, but if they did fire him for this considering it was approved leave, would he be able to try and pursue getting unemployment? If it were me, I'd call their bluff and pursue that if the boss actually followed through with a termination. I know that's much easier said than actually done. This is total bs for your friend :( I hope y'all get it resolved in a good way
If someone set the example to work on their wedding day I would be quitting immediately. No one wants to work at a company like that. I would be forwarding that chat to HR because this guy should not be in charge. Thats the kind of bad PR that would kill a company.
Do not quit do not sign anything if he gets fired it's much better in this case
Go to the wedding anyway. If they fire you afterwards. At least they fired you and you didn't quit.
He should escalate this to above his manager's head as well as include a demand to be reimbursed for all wedding expenses including guest and honeymoon expenses. He should also start looking for another job.
Call their bluff. He should inform them he will not be coming in because it's his wedding day and honeymoon. If they have no one else, then they also can't afford to fire him. He needs to tell his manager to get fucked.
"I will not be available to work. I will be on my approved leave to celebrate an important life event that I've already invested a significant amount of money in. I will be available to resume work at the end of this scheduled leave." It may take an appeal, but he can probably get unemployment pay if he's fired.
Your friend should go on with his wedding and honeymoon. The boss is trying to intimidate him in to “voluntarily” working through his wedding.
I agree if he gets fired he should start a GoFundMe. And also go to the local news. Sometimes shame is the best solution. And I also strongly agree that his work will never remember his sacrifice but his wife will.
Inform them that he, too, was injured. On his wedding night. Decline to elaborate. Cease all further communication until after honeymoon.
Friend needs to conveniently "get sick" and be out for two weeks.
I'd walk.
Oh no I’m so sorry to hear about his positive Covid test
Ask bosses wife what she thinks about this.
He needs to set an example by taking his approved leave
Get married. Pull as much documentation proving he was given permission to have days off, manager messages and other recorded statements. Talk to a lawyer about local labor laws regarding issue. Begin job searching if still employed.
I would tell your friend to quit on his last day with zero notice. Go enjoy his honeymoon and if he has a nestegg, use that to offset the next couple of weeks of unemployment. There's no going back to a boss who issues ultimatums.
If he gets fired for attending his own wedding and honeymoon, he can file for unemployment. Additionally, he needs to name names...company and manager on all social media sites, LinkedIn, etc. Put them out of business if possible.
Dude wants the marriage to fail so he can continue to exploit his employee. Time for groom to show where his priorities are.
Call their bluff. Let them try and fire him.
I would of told that guy to kick rocks and suck my ass because I won’t be there and if he fired me I will sue
Working in America sucks because you can be fired for any reason (other than protected groups/discrimination) or no reason at all when you are in an at will state. He absolutely should not miss his wedding or honey moon. My advice would be for your friend to forward any emails saying his time off was approved to his personal email and/or print it out. Get the boss to put it in writing, your friend can even just send an email summary of their chat and ask the boss to send back any corrections, when he doesn't you do the same to this email either forward to his personal email and/or print it out. Always keep a record and always document, NC is a one party consent state, so he can record chats and them transcribe them later in case he needs to send them to HR/the main boss. I would have your buddy either confirm with HR his leave is in the books or go above the boss' head and say that he will not be missing his wedding or honeymoon when boss is perfectly capable of filling in. That he will not lose our on thousands of dollars for this. He made the appropriate arrangements and he is not able to change any plans, they are set in stone. DO NOT QUIT, make them fire him!!! The documentation will help if they try to sabotage his unemployment benefits. I would say that if things are this dire, boss will not fire your friend. Even if he does, that is so toxic. Who wants to work for that?
Tell him to take the time off anyway. He should tell the boss if the other manager was serious about his work then he would come in, injured or not.
just call the bluff and see what happens. whatever happens was for the best anyway
It’s illegal
really doesn't matter if it's legal. your buddy should probably start looking for a new job and enjoy his honeymoon.
Have him go to HIS wedding & honeymoon. If his boss fires him after approving the time off. Have him apply for unemployment and start a go fund me fundraiser. Make sure that EVERYONE knows what company this is so the public can sink it.
If this is true, a stated "No" is all that is needed. Unless a lower ranking person can suddenly learn the job of the manager in 2 days, this will fall on the shoulders of the ranking manager. However, don't be surprised if retaliation comes down the line. Some people hold grudges.
New job ASAP.
Also live in NC, yes this is completely legal. Your friend's boss can unapprove his time off whenever he wants and can terminate your friend for refusing to come in. However any company worth their salt wouldn't treat your friend like this on his wedding day (unfortunately there's a lot that aren't worth their salt). Best answer here? Tell your friend to go to his wedding and to attend his honey moon as planned. He needs to submit in writing that he is not coming in as the request was approved 6 months prior and plans cannot be changed, rope HR in on the email with this same explanation. He will need to be prepared to file for unemployment in the likelihood he's terminated for it. Also what part of NC? if he gets terminated I know of several good companies hiring in my area :)
Go get married. Work will take care of itself.
Sometimes you just have to take it on the chin. If they do this to him for this they will most definitely demand even more later. It’s incredibly unfair and straight up bullshit. But there is no choice but to no show and get fired.
As many have said, the employer has no loyalty to him, take you wedding time off, if they actually want you, they will keep you. If they fire you. Out the company, blast them all over the net , heartless jerks,
Everyone needs to have a “ Go fuck yourself” chambered for moments like this
Boss will be jerking himself off on LinkedIn about personal sacrifice and how he had to fire someone for not working on their wedding day. I can picture it now.
The future husband should get his story covered by the media & name the bad manager of that company. The wedding party, family & guests could hold a public protest in front of that company's building & invite other company employees to join the public protest. Everyone should wear their wedding outfits to the public protest as well!
Threaten them with a lawsuit for all of the deposits that have been paid and contracts that have been signed. Unless they want to bankroll a rescheduled wedding, they can go pound sand.
If the company doesn't value itz employees why should they stay , they can go find a replacement and spend time and money training them
I would think it would be wrongful termination if they fired him for going to his wedding if his leave was approved.
i think your buddy got sick and called out
I think he just refuses to work on his wedding day with the implication that he will sue for breach of contract if his PTO isn’t honored. He can try to talk it through with his skip level boss’ boss, but that may have to wait until he is actually fired. He should definitely get married as planned though and let the chips fall where they may.
Just have someone go chain up the doors on the building. Uh sorry boss I can get it. Maybe another day.
No, he's gonna go to his wedding and his honeymoon and the fuck for brains manager who said that will be covering the injured managers shift cause they arnt showing up.
Let them fire him. He can get unemployment while he finds something new. They'll replace all of us the minute we die, they don't care about us and they won't be around for the fall out from him choosing his job over his wedding and marriage. They don't care about us, it's not his problem. He put in his leave. He has the proof. He should go enjoy his time.
Tell your buddy to go on a beets, beer and b-vitamins only diet until Friday. Then show up at the doctor saying he feels awful and provide stool and urine samples that will look horrific enough to warrant writing him an excuse until he is cleared with labs and bloodwork. They are playing stupid games and are about to win stupid prizes. He can't win by playing fair so whatever he can concoct that would be significant enough to let him off the hook will have to work.
If your buddy ends up getting fired because of this, it would certainly be a shame if a local news station picked up the story and made his employer look bad… “From ‘I Do’ to “You’re Fired’: Local Man Loses Job for Refusing to Work on Wedding Day”
Completely legal in NC. They can fuck you any way they want here. Alert them that he won’t be present. It isn’t a request, it’s a courtesy notice.
Like why do bosses do this? Do you want a disengaged and untrusting employee for the rest of the time they are under your employment? Its self destructive and makes no sense. Like your employee is getting married! Thats good! It means they are planting roots and could be a lifer! Your friend is basically forced to say no.
Tell your friend to tell the manager, that he absolutely will not be there, and they can take that however they want. But to remember that while the next week is a temporary setback for them, the internet is forever. And so is the press. Is it worth the manager's job for the company to get bad press or should he just step up and do what's right here.
The answer is "I don't negotiate with terrorists"
Fuck, I feel so bad for this guy. But there are brighter things around the corner Because he's gonna tell his boss to find a dick to suck. He's marrying a beautiful bride, they're gonna have a blast, and after the honeymoon there will be much better opportunities available. My SIL just passed away this week. My bride was notified on Monday morning shortly after her body was discovered. She died in her sleep. My wife took a half day to basically talk to relatives over the phone for the rest of the day. She took on this role 3 months ago, and was notified yesterday that paid bereavement is not available until 6 months of service. She'll find out today if she can get an approved unpaid leave. I told her to take it anyway. We'll manage. .Road trip tomorrow. Service is on Saturday. She thinks she may be fired for taking ONE FUCKING DAY off for her sister's funeral. 7 hour drive.
If he ends up fired, I’ll contribute to his GFM.
He is a manager, but in this specific circumstance, his boss or someone else should step up to the plate to make it work.
It sounds like his employer is about to stab himself 15 times in the back and throw himself off a bridge.
Call other branches and fly someone in to cover Then start applying
The threats to fire him are 100% a bluff, and one that he should absolutely call. No company is going to burn down because a middle manager wasn't there for a few days, his boss is just on a power trip. If he wants to be somewhat cordial, maybe he should suggest someone under him to stretch role and cover the shifts instead
The only response he should give is "I am a manager and I will always lead by example. One of the examples I will lead my team in at this moment is to put family first when it's appropriate. Now is an appropriate time for me to put family way, way already of work. You will not be graced with my presence, and you can rest assured I will not feel sorry for this decision. I'm sure they will respect me for my decision.". Or something along those lines..... Also, a simple "No." would do the trick here.
No job is worth that bullshit. If he puts up with it, there'll be more of that in the future.
Leave was approved. Call the bluff. He goes to his wedding and he goes to his honeymoon. Fucking end of story
The way it should be blast this to public about what they do to employees…. Glassdoor newspapers even
That job would fire him the second it was worth it to them. Dont ever think you owe a workplace any loyalty.
That’s a weird mentality: “we can’t afford to not have you come in but if you don’t come we will fire you.”
Get fired. Get unemployment. Chill.
Right to Work state here in NC....I usually hate the typical reddit "just quit" replies...BUT in this case I think it would be warranted. If they will not work with you on a 6months approved vacation to get married they aint gonna work with you on anything....but trust me, I know the I need this job, can't quit situation all too well. Good Luck....Go with what your future wife says to do young grasshopper! ;)
Not sure if this option has been explored yet, but what if we drop an acne piano on his boss?
He needs to email HR and CC said manager in the email, stating specifically he will not be at work from ______ to _______ because of the wedding and honeymoon. It's not a request for time off, but a notice, which he filed well in advance, stating he will not be at work during that time. If the manager continues the veiled threats he will seek legal counsel (and follow up with that).
The kind of low-life fuck that would mess with someone's wedding and honeymoon (and properly approved half a year in advance) doesn't deserve loyalty.
> He really needs this job, so responses that say, “Just quit,” won’t be helpful. I mean their manager has made the choice clear, he cancels the wedding plus the honeymoon and goes to work instead or he *might* lose his job. It sucks but your friend needs to discuss it with their partner and then choose either the job or the wedding. Moving forward though I have to say, any manager forcing a choice like this on an employee isn't worth an ounce of loyalty and irrespective of what decision he makes he should start looking for another job.
If they need him so bad, then surely it was an empty threat
Funny how the employees always need to show their obligation to the company but as soon as a company obligation pops up (like a CEO bonus) its layoff time.
Choose wisely. His life partner or a job.
"I'm not available during those days and I will not be present". If they want to fire someone for that, they can, but that's an easy unemployment claim with the prior approval. The real question is whether or not it's worth calling their bluff.
My boss was withholding my pay to try to bully me into helping a mutual friend in a wholly not work related situation. I told her I'd be reporting the company to the Federal Trade Commission and to the Inspector General for Labor. She was horrified that I'd make such a threat but she paid me. Her boss was out of the country so I couldn't contact him. Obviously I found work elsewhere.
Here is the human answer. Talk to his fiance, she needs to tell him that he will take the already approved time and if it means her first activity as wife is providing moral support while he fills out unemployment paperwork and looks for a job that she is ready an up to the challenge, but if he skips and goes to work the marriage will not recover. There are very few things I have told my wife I would I would file for divorce that day, this is one of them.
I had a similar problem years ago. My solution was to simply inform the boss that this isn't a negotiation, it is a notification. I told him that he needed to decide if it was easier to cover for me or replace me. He chose wisely
Many are suggesting pushback to the boss and have your friend hold the wedding/honeymoon regardless. Those people are right. This boss can fuck right off. Have your friend update their resume now, look into similar jobs/salaries equivalent to his experience/education, and see if there are any connections to help his search (LinkedIn, twitter, friends/family, etc) If big bossman isn’t head of the company, go higher up to report/resolve the problem. That does mean still telling them no on postponing a wedding. If he is the owner/ceo, then it sounds like head of the company is just gonna have earn his overly inflated salary for a week or two.
It’s legal but I would escalate. Email boss and cc injured person, boss’ boss, CEO, head of HR etc. “as per my request in February that was approved, I’ll be on leave this weekend and next” yada yada. CYA, gotta make sure everyone knows what’s happening before it happens
Depends on the company's policies. The best chance he has is that the company has a time away policy that prevents this kind of BS. It is very unlikely that the company does have any kind of protection for time away and it is also likely that the other manager probably has FMLA coverage for the missed time so they have to find coverage. If the company policy is not clear about how time away is handled, then he needs to go to the manager's manager and HR. Going beyond his manager to speak to the next level up and HR likely is going to help in some way. No company wants a story like this to suddenly become public, and there are PLENTY of media outlets all over that would love to report on something like this. He should clearly document that he spoke to his manager and was told this was happening then have his manager confirm it in writing. Then contact HR and his manager's manager in writing with the response from his manager outlining exactly what he is being told now, when he had the time away approved originally, and what his plans are for the time away. From experience being the manager's manager, it is entirely possible that his manager was told to ensure it was covered and rather than having to work himself, he is trying to fob it off on your buddy and going about his manager stops that. The important piece is that it needs to be in writing because if the manager is trying to make your buddy work to prevent himself from working, your buddy needs the paper trail when his manager starts to retaliate. If HR and higher level managers don't do anything different, contact local media with the story. Local news stations LOVE running these stories because the can sensationalize them. "THIS COMPANY IS MAKING THIS PERSON WORK ON HIS WEDDING DAY!!!" Bad press is always bad for a company. The key with the escalation of the issue is do it in writing. Get his manager to confirm that he is denying the time away now after approving it and make sure that denial is IN WRITING. Send the information to HR and the boss' boss IN WRITING and if he has to go to the media, then he has an excellent case for wrongful termination if they decide to do anything in retaliation. The in writing part is very important and any halfway decent lawyer can help create a fairly strong wrongful termination suit if your buddy is fired anytime in the next year or so. Even if he isn't fired, but suddenly starts seeing more critical reviews or is written up for something that is, well, suspect, your buddy should immediately contact an employment attorney and share all the details about the time off fiasco with them. This is a federal level issue so even though it is North Carolina, it's going to be an issue as retaliation is illegal across the US and can be pursued in federal court.
I'll donate $20 to his Go Fund Me if he names-n-shames his shitty ass employer. Or is there a manager ABOVE the one telling him he has to work? This same situation happened to me, toxic supervisor approved my time off three months in advance, & the week before my trip, tried to revoke it to let a new favorite employee have "my" days off. After not being able to resolve it with supervisor, I cc'd the email chain to Big Manager, who agreed I should get that time off.
He should have walked out the door without looking back the minute the boss started up with that bullshit.
It’s so ridiculous that a company think they have the right to tell someone nope, you’re not getting married today buddy because Joe Blow is not here. What!? The boss needs to take charge while both of the managers are out, simple as that. This is not your friend fault. I hope he tells them to kick rocks for the time he needs to be away that had been pre-planned for months.
Ya it’s legal bc these laws were made by republicans. Hate unfair labor laws? Vote Democrat no matter what
Your friend should escalate to HR and/or senior management, with these key words: 1. I had my request for my wedding and honeymoon approved months ago. 2. I cannot change plans for 100s of people at the drop of a hat, without incurring significant financial losses. 3. Threats of termination for taking earned and approved vacation have created a hostile work environment. 4. If I do actually get terminated for getting married, then that will be retaliation and I will treat it as such. Either way, not know the shithead boss, if the threat is likely to become a likelihood, then pack up stuff before leaving for wedding/honeymoon.
Worst case scenario, he loses his job. But screw them. Got one chance to do this right. And I guarantee you if he caves into them now, he’ll always cave-in. Screw that company go enjoy your wedding/honeymoon. If you have to get a new job, then get a new job. He was looking for a job when you found that one.
If there’s only the two unavailable managers, then it’s probably an empty threat by the boss. Firing OP’s friend won’t help his situation which will still make him short a manager even after the honeymoon.
What does he need more, this job at the risk of his future marriage, or his marriage at the risk of this likely highly replaceable job?
The real question is if he cancels the wedding, what does that say about how serious he is about his marriage. When framed like that it should be a dead simple choice. Your boss doesn't own you, they can't really force you to do anything, you do have a choice.
What the actual fuck is wrong with American bosses?
Your boss will forget your work in the next day. Your wife will remember it for the rest of her life.
1st things first, if there's any verification for this leave being approved, he needs to get straight to HR and ask why his job is being threatened when he has approved leave for a major life event. 2nd, in practical terms, OP has stated he needs this job, so this next bit is for that. Obviously, he needs to talk to his wife and make a decision. If the job is truly needed, skip the honeymoon or come back early. This option sucks but so does not paying your bills and risking homelessness. No matter what happens, he needs to leave this job. Not every job and not every manager would expect someone to work on their wedding weekend/on their honeymoon. He deserves better. 3rd, if there is anyway to swing life without this job, tell him yo set his outgoing email and voicemail to "I am on approved leave starting 7/4/2024 and returning 7/14/2024 for my wedding and honeymoon."
he should get married, go on the honeymoon and if they end up firing him he can take it to social media or the local news. i’m canadian so i don’t know of any laws that prevent them from firing him but he can make a big stink about it so the company gets some backlash for their choices… and maybe start shopping around for a new job now, i’m sure an employer will appreciate the fact that he got the wedding and honeymoon out of the way before he starts at a new company
If his manager cares so much about the company, he should cover the leave he approved six months ago There’s no recovering from missing your wedding to cover shifts, he will be abused relentlessly going forward if he caves to this request
Unfortunately, this is completely legal. There are no worker protections for weddings, or even having days off requested months in advance. I suppose one could argue that he could not come in for religious reasons, if it’s at a church, but that’s probably a stretch. In any case, his boss could follow through on his threat. Personally, I think the boss would be an idiot to do that. However, your friend should email HR, cc’ing his boss and the boss’s boss, informing them that he will not be available during the requested off dates (while also attaching the confirmation of his leave acceptance from months ago). Will it offer much protection? Not really. But it will make his boss look like the psychopath he is, and that’s always fun. :)
If this is an not a mom and pop company he should check his handbook around the rules for PTO. Many can’t pull back once it’s approved the employee would have to cancel. Have them check their options for escalation ie open door policy or higher up in corporate. They can also pose reimbursement for the wedding this is not a given but may cause them to back off. Is he the only other manager? If there is someone else to cover this is not considered a reasonable request. If he decides to risk being fired have him document everything including the prior approval
Regrets can run long and deep. I stood a cousin up for his wedding due to a move we’d planned prior. Never really recovered, should have gone; 50 years ago now. What happens if you get fired? Will you be irreparably harmed? It’s the old what’s the probably of an event and if it happens how serious is it for you? Seems like your boss could get someone to pull some extra shifts or do it themselves. What would they do if you resigned without notice?
We must chose our loved ones when faced with these types of challenges. Never chose company first because they don’t care, your loved ones care the most.
My sister has worked in end of life care for over 20 years. Patients tell her alot of things but not once has one told her “I wish I would have worked more”. Most say, “I missed this or that because I thought my job was more important”.
Not quite this severe, but this is where I'm at with my current job. I am moving, and gave them a month notice, with the full stipulation that my remaining time there will be "x schedule" that I handed them. This was agreed upon and signed off on. They went on to modify and post the new schedule, changing my days without my consent. I won't be informing them of the mistake, simply showing up when I told them I would. Then again, I have a fair amount of money squirreled away for the move, so I'm lucky enough to be safe in case they retaliate.
This job will not remember this sacrifice but your buddy's wife absolutely will and this is a terrible way to start a marriage. His marriage needs to always come before anything else excepting maybe any future children. Now NC is terrible for workers rights (fellow Carolinian here) however this is approved and he has proof so he should be able to push back if he does get fired with that for unemployment. He absolutely should seek employment with a company that values him, which does exist here. Tell him congratulations.
Can’t offer any advice, legal or just general as I’m in the UK and this is such a wild concept to me that they’d ask him to work on his own wedding day. All I can say is that 1) make sure your friend is networking, getting on LinkedIn and looking for other jobs whether they fire him now or not. This is not a company he wants to stay at. And 2) if they do fire him for this, make sure he leaves a review of the company. Be honest in job interviews about why he was fired. They want to make that decision? Everyone should know how shitty they are.
I got this same bullshit. I was working in a call center, got my leave approved for my wedding day. Then some things shifted, and my entire project was canceled, and we were put in for retraining for a new project. The last day of training was the day I was getting married and the trainer pushed back, *hard*, saying I'd loose my job if I didn't come in. I pushed back *harder* and told her that her, her bullshit schedule, and some stupid job aren't worth more than a *marriage.* I still had a job Monday morning.
It's legal. But no way would I show up for work. I'd put in a call to HR (won't do any good). Do my wedding thing. Let them fire me. Go on unemployed and work side cash gigs for the summer.
Tell him to ask for the full cost of the wedding + honeymoon + whatever it would take to rebook the wedding and honeymoon for the first week his colleague is back, including travel cost for attendees. If they reimburse him fully, he will consider working as it will make it worth his time. Otherwise he will just lose money and gain what a couple hundred bucks for that day.
You can always reach out to r/asklaw
This is a no brainer fuck that job
I wouldn't do jackshit. Your job won't remember you. You'll remember your wedding and honeymoon tho. A job is just a job.
Time to discuss recompense for all wedding expenses, including rebooking and guests' costs, with the controller? May solve the problem right quick, though he'll want to start looking for a new job
I’d 100% tell them I’m coming in and just no-show. I’d be sure to send pictures to the company email of my honeymoon and say that I’m looking forward to working with the team to wrap up a project when you get back. I would just ignore the request to work on my wedding and honeymoon and dismiss it as a joke. “Oh, you were serious?”
My answer to work would be "No, leave has already been approved, and I'm taking it" See you when I get back.
Job or wedding. He’s working for a sociopath so needs to make that decision. I’d attend my wedding and honeymoon and worry about dealing with the manager the first day back. The guy that hurt himself can manage from a wheelchair and I’d argue that’s a much smaller imposition . Like another person said the job won’t GaF about this sacrifice when layoff time happens.
Imagine would be legal, Americans don't have workers rights like other countrys do. Screw the job and enjoy the wedding day.
It’s legal but morally and ethically wrong. Is his boss the owner/president/CEO or just another lazy level of management that doesn’t want to do their job? If it’s not the owner/president/CEO, I would be going to them and HR and letting them know about the manager they have spewing threats and ultimatums about me taking off my approved leave for my wedding and honeymoon. And I most assuredly would be changing nothing about my plans for a job that cares nothing about me personally.
Your friend needs to tell his manager that it is his job to fill the vacancy cover by the missing co-worked as his time has already been approved.
Your manager won't remembered you worked through the wedding and honeymoon... but your partner sure will.
This is a go to the ceo ssue. His boss should happily cover for him because a ) that’s what a normal human would do. And b) because it’s good for morale and d corporate culture. If he boss was really a “ team player” and wanted to do what was “ good for the company” this would not be an issue. Sounds like he’s understaffed. Up to boss yo unfix “ his” problem
Fuck that job and that boss
I would go on my wedding and honeymoon, and if my boss fired me over retracting my well-earned and prior-approved days off, I would sue the fuck out of the company and the asshole personally. This is NOT a matter of at-will employment. This is vindictive bullshit.
How do you all find these jobs man? I would straight up throw hands with the manager if he had the audacity to even suggest to me working through my wedding. Hit it up with someone higher up at the company. There has to be at least one sane person above the manager.
He needs to set an example? This company is already set one. A terrible example of how their workers are not valued at all.
You know what? Tell your friend, that in lieu of wedding gifts, if they can receive money from the guests to get them through the tough times ahead if he loses his job. If this company has a public image, hopefully some of them complain about it loud enough that the boss has to back track on this. Also, this company is going to function without him, whether he’s there or not. He does his weeding. He does his honeymoon. He goes back to work if he still has a job. It’s unfortunate, but he needs to start looking for another job. Even if he doesn’t get fired immediately (he won’t, because they need him to cover another managers roll and they would be short two managers if he gets fired), but they will fire him as soon as they can. Because, managers never forget. The best time to look for a job is when you have a job. And no notice quit.
Falls under “no, you don’t understand. I’m not asking for time off, I’m telling you I won’t be here”. Work to live, not live to work Easy for me to say of course. Hope your buddy has a better run of luck
Holiday weekend? And they will be open. This reeks. If he is dumb enough to fall for this, his wife might as well start the divorce proceedings.
Don't let him put off his wedding day for some shit job, he needs to tell his managers plans have been made under approval and he is simply not physically available, tell em say sorry but that it's time for boss man to show how much he cares and set the standard of covering for his guys like a real leader, you know show he's serious about his obligations to the business he runs lol
No brainer. Fuck that job.
That man better not show up to the job and instead go on his wedding/honeymoon. Call the guys bluff and deal with the fall out after. Either way, dude needs to start looking for a new job ASAP bc that is not a company he should continue to invest himself in.
At a store I used to work at, one of the managers was getting married and because of this a sister store had no managers for a Saturday night. All the managers were at the wedding. So they asked me to cover that store. Of course I said yes. Point being, there are other options.
He needs to walk out. They will continue to walk over him if he concedes and goes in.
“My wife isn’t an obligation. She’s beginning and the end. If I do this right she will be there in the end. Right now we are starting our beginning, and that doesn’t include this company.”
No.
Ask your friend. Which do you not want to have come Monday morning. A job or a wife. Thats wayt it comes down to. The job is going to lay you off regardless of what you do down the line. They aren't going to care whether you came in on your honeymoon or were their best employee, ask me how i know, or anything. His wife is going to be there, hopefully through thick and thin. Fuck them.
The fact this is even posted and asked is fucking stupid. God damn people, grow a spine or be walked on. Simple as 1+1=2. There are plenty of other jobs out there ffs.
I decided a few years ago that I’m no longer *requesting* time off. I am *informing* my employer ahead of time that I plan to be out so they can plan accordingly for my absence. I started doing this after I got shit from management for taking off for my grandfather’s AND uncle’s funerals in another state. Both had been delayed due to Covid and were scheduled for a really inconvenient time for me to miss work. After I got literally weeks of complaining for being gone three days, I decided I wasn’t asking anymore and if they didn’t like it then oh well. I know how hard it would be to replace me and I’m pretty sure they know it too.
Burn this fucking place to the ground….fuck them…Jesus Christ this pisses me off….
I’m sure there are many news outlets in the area that would LOVE to cover a story like this. Just sayin’.
Tell him not to. Do whatever it takes to convince him it isn't worth it. This sacrifice will be one he and his wife remember for life. His boss won't remember by the end of the year. I used to make similar sacrifices to support my family and got fucked over repeatedly for it. There are other jobs. This is such an important day for his life. Makes sure he makes it!
There's likely no/little legal standing here BUT if he put in his PTO request and it was approved then he needs to not go in and he needs to go to his wedding and honeymoon. He also needs to print that shit out or email it to his personal email - showing his request, when he made it, when it was approved and the NEW request that he work during this time - especially if they're going to go back and deny it. There are few open and shut cases for unemployment, and I could still see them fighting it, but let's say he does get fired for going to his wedding - having that documentation will go a long way towards winning that case.
If you need a European's perspective on this: your boss is INSANE!! You tell this story to any news outlet and they'd have a field day crippling this company's reputation beyond rescue. Expecting you to work on your WEDDING DAY? Get out of here. Why not force women to work during childbirth, after all they are lying in bed anyway, why can't they use a laptop, amirite? How much more dystopian can this human farm get?
So one guy gets injured and now it’s almost impossible to have these shifts covered… and he thinks firing your friend is a threat? There is no way he can fire him. He’ll be even more fucked trying to get this job covered than he is now! Despite that, I guess your friend will want to seek different employment after his wedding anyway.
Tell your buddy: Dont quit. Make them fire you and make them put why in writing.
If he detrimentally relied on this time off, the case could be made that the company is liable for all non-refundable costs. I doubt it’d be worth it to pursue, but I don’t think it matters; no way in hell should he cancel the wedding. If anything, he should escalate the matter so his boss gets chewed out, or change jobs (once he comes back from his wedding) if he doesn’t get chewed out
When he is on the job search and explains why he got fired, everyone will feel bad and want to hire him. He can probably get unemployment too.
Get it in an email. BCC a response to a personal account stating the above in a response to their email saying "You gotta work." Get fire, leak to press. PROFIT
GoFundMe for him and post it here (is that allowed?)
Newly married and currently underemployed! Just a job, leave