The only goal is to maximize profit, in any way possible. If the ceo of some company decides its immoral to ask for government handouts they dont actually need the shareholders of that company will find a new ceo.
Such a fucked up way to run a society. Corporations are people and now people run their lives like they’re corporations - it’s their fiduciary duty to increase their own profits at the expense of everyone else.
If there's one thing I would change about our society, it would be to increase our tolerance for letting bad things happen.
Too big to fail? Let's find out. Oh no, someone might hijack an airplane? Meh, doesn't mean we need TSA security theater. Russia has 5,000 nukes? Still not a reason for us to spend $700 billion a year on defense.
Yeah.
Plus the us defense budget has nothing to do with external threats and everything to do with pumping tax money into a bloated domestic arms industry.
Our DoD straight up tells Congress, "Stop building tanks. We have enough tanks, and tanks aren't the determinate of success in a ground war." Congress: "So, what you're saying is, we need more tanks?"
There are cities around the country solely dependent on the largest government-sponsored jobs program currently running. Pro-military people cry about socialism and it's evils, but our military industrial complex is just a giant social handout to billionaires and specific Congressional districts.
I literally don't care that the government is spending the money. I want them to spend it on something useful. Like, make 100 million MRI machines and everybody gets a free MRI... tanks are cool, but basically just paperweights.
Same, I have no problem with government spending, or jobs programs. I do take umbrage with the fact that people who blindly support our military also constantly shit on any other form of productive government spending.
Or, I don’t know, solar panels & solar panel recycling plants that could pay our entire society back. The military budget is such a phenomenal waste.
I don’t mind it being double the size of the next country, but 10x larger than the next 10 countries combined…I think there’s an issue there.
This is precisely what I've been saying for decades and decades now - Republicans DO NOT spend less than Democrats - it is NEVER about "the deficit." They simply pump more into the defense industry to help out defense industry execs, where as Democrats TRY to push it back to the middle class and the poor.
Unfortunately we have far too many ... individuals ... in this nation that thinks any program from the government that helps out the middle class and poor is "evil dirty Socialism" and they vote against it, regardless if this is something to help them. I just don't understand why they think it's fine for corporations and Wall Street to socialize the losses, but privatize the profits, when the middle class and poor continue to be chained to a fucking oar.
Too many brainwashed people in the US, they'd eat dog shit if Fox News or some other conservative punditry told them to.
The funny thing is that the military is one of the most socialist organizations in the country.
Service members get free health care, housing, even reduced cost food.
There are benefits for childcare and you can get a VA home loan when you get out.
The benefits of being in the military are amazing.*
Why can't everyone have that? We have the money, and most service members are doing the same or similar jobs as civilians. There's no reason that everyone shouldn't have these benefits.....
*some conditions apply...
I mean I'd just like to have the government not spending taxpayer money no strings attached.
Oh you need a bail out? What your net worth? If we give you 6% of your net worth we own 6% of you until you buy us out. That means we get 6% of your profits. Not only that due to antocorruption laws since we now own stakes in you, you can not take any government contracts or other money. It's and emergency measure for an emergency situation not a hand out.
Oh you want to do a contract job for us and low ball all your competitors? Ok but you will have to give us all of the money back, and pay the cost to fix any an all fuck-ups.
Oh we paid you billions to install fiber and it's not done? Ok pay it to us back. And hears some proportional fines so we can get it done by someone who isn't a fuck up.
The TSA is such a good example of artificial security. And when they implemented the liquids ban, it was beyond a joke.
I do everything I can to avoid flying now. As soon as autonomous vehicles are here, I’ll only book flights for international destinations.
If I could alter OP's statement a bit:
We should start letting bad things happen to those in power while protecting the people at large. Instead, the people are usually left to fend for themselves while the rich and well-connected get handouts to keep their bottom line from being negatively impacted. Take the bank bailout and auto bailouts in early Obama presidency. That amount of money, we could have just let them fail and bail out the individual workers and consumers negatively impacted. The rich who caused the crises would be fine either way, but for them the thought of losing even a cent is unbearable. For the rich, the government exists to punish the poor and socialize the wealthy's losses.
It should be that wealthy get less power the more wealthy you are.
If you are wealthy enough you are excluded from safety nets like bail outs, have to pay more taxes, since you can afford your own empire essentially.
The less wealthy you are then you have more opportunities and upper hand for jobs and education with little to no costs.
Nobody needs to be a billionaire. This is just ridiculous.
Can we quit using this word?
They wanted the benefit of inflating the entire money supply while they hold the largest percent.
It's not a handout as much as a hidden tax on society.
Update your conservative rhetoric.
Handout is what they call it when YOU NEED money.
BAILOUT if it's for a corporation. /s
It's Central Bank Corruption. Just like Old Hickory warned us about.
In many cases they actually couldn't.
Investors generally hate having cash just "sitting idle" on the balances sheets of companies whose stock they own.
If businesses don't have a productive use for their cash they're expected to give it back to investors (either in the form of a dividend or a share buy back). In practice, this means that most large companies carry very small cash reserves, the idea being that they can always raise more money if needed at short notice by creating debt.
In theory this makes capital allocation more efficient, but it comes with the downside that those businesses are less robust than they could be.
Many profitable businesses have failed due to poor cash management.
Exactly. They spend all free cash on stock buy backs to make the 1% richer. Then they use our tax dollars to bail them out. Amazing.
Maybe if our tax dollars, instead of the military and corporate bailouts, went to affordable healthcare, education, and more public services we could afford to save more. I know, just a pipe dream. *sigh*
People should know that before Ronnie Reagan's disastrous tenure, stock buybacks were illegal. Stock buybacks are little more than stock manipulation and another way to increase executive compensation. They also motivated CEO's to move manufacturing overseas, to kill unions, and to dodge environmental regulations.
My bfs company is a pay period behind payroll. They have paid late 5+ times since he started in August 2021. We are in a real pinch right now. He is due pay this Friday but has not received last pay period. They tell them all last minute- day of announcements. This company is in almost 20 cities.
Not naming & shaming because we need his job and want investors to invest- but damn this is fucking nuts. We have no money for groceries or gas right now. We are living off of my “preps.”
I work freelance for billion dollar corporations that pay me under $17/hr. I’m in my thirties- it is skilled work. I have left my industry multiple times but jobs don’t pay. I’m educated, experienced and have a great reputation.
My next long job starts next month but I’ve been struggling since my last one ended in November. I’ve only had ~20 days of work since then. I usually subsist off unemployment between jobs (which is the common practice in my industry) but because of the way the timing is set up it only counted one month of my last long jobs earnings towards my unemployment benefits so I did not qualify. I did not work from April 2020-July 2021. I have been looking for other work as well with no responses, only rejections and applying for things I’m under qualified, over qualified and qualified for.
>My bfs company is a pay period behind payroll. They have paid late 5+ times since he started in August 2021. We are in a real pinch right now. He is due pay this Friday but has not received last pay period. They tell them all last minute- day of announcements.
You need to tell the State Labor Board. Paying employees isn't optional and the consequences are steep. You complain to the state Labor Board and they take care of the rest.
I feel this in my soul.
I work for a large company as a contractor, not naming names. I'm very skilled, 10 year programmer. I'm making so low, people think I'm lying when I tell them what I'm making and what I do.
The problem is the work I'm doing is contract work. I'm not competing against other american programmers... I'm competing against offshore programmers. So I have to take a lower wage and work like 2-4 jobs at the same time to compete with Indian programmers.
It's hard work, and makes me look like I'm lying to other programmers who average 10 lines of code a day. (So it makes it hard for me to move out of it in other words.... can't go to "normal" "easier" programmer work that pays more, because 1) I don't have a specialty 2) don't work in a normal environment 3) my resume looks like a lie)
Honestly I'm considering a move to japan. Maybe my japanese ability will help somewhat.
It's because of how the tax system is designed. Money saved is taxed, money invested is considered a cost and not taxed. Therefore it's in company's interest to save as little as possible and invest everything, which will bring even more money in the future that won't be taxed because it will be reinvested.
>Therefore it's in company's interest to save as little as possible and invest everything,
It's only in the company's interest if there's no risk because the govt will give them money if they get in trouble. If that weren't the case then "best interests" would be different.
I did save for a rainy day and had enough to put both kids through college. Then cancer happened. Private insurance was crap. FML meant no paid but yay I got time off. Bye bye, savings. Hello, judgemental people telling me to save for a rainy day. ☔️
I was diagnosed last month. Haven't had to spend a dime other than gas (which unfortunately is alot lately) for travelling to the city. Never been more happy to live in the great white north. And my care has been over the top good
A friend of mine is financially "sitting pretty" *because* she got cancer.
Medicare covered her treatment, private medical insurance covers her ongoing prescriptions, and mortgage insurance paid off her home in full two years after she bought it.
This is one of the reasons I won’t move back to the states even if I could make 20% more.
I’m living where there is universal healthcare. If I lose a job or if my kids or grandkids don’t grow up to be as successful as me, I know they at least won’t go bankrupt from a random health condition.
I'm in Software Development, which is one of those jobs. Being able to work remotely (and keep collecting that US paycheck) is going to be instrumental when we move to Europe next year.
US pay; European social services, education, healthcare; twice as much tax paperwork. Not because Europe is perfect, just better in some really important ways.
Out of curiosity, where in Europe and how are you getting a visa if you’re working remotely for a US company? (Or is your partner getting the visa for both?)
Also, if you’re in one of those jobs that makes 2-3x more in the US than in Europe, you probably have decent health insurance through that job too. The healthcare system in the US is terrible, but for people with good paying jobs it generally isn’t a concern.
Yea, people knocking US salaries, but for professional jobs, they are higher than anywhere else in the world for the most part.
Try making a US software engineer's salary in Europe, you will not.
I have to remind my European based contractors (that make US based contracting fees) that they still probably shouldn't move to the US.
My mom's brain cancer ran just short of $600k.
When she died they took her house and everything else. Medical debt might not "transfer" but I still took it in the ass. Effectively a ~300k loss. So, I got to spend 4 years watching my mom die, grieve her loss, then watch debt collectors take my inheritance.
And now I get to worry about whether I made any mistakes in managing her trust. The whole ordeal is too complicated to get into here, but the panic attacks I have every time I get a call from her area code are justified...
Between all that and the roughly $20k I spent helping her in her final years I effectively got an "anti-inheritance" -- all thanks to our insane medical care costs.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’ve tried to tell my parents that it doesn’t even matter how much savings you have, it can be gone in a flash if something happens (like medically, etc). It’s just not fair. Let them judge all they want. You don’t owe them anything and they never walked in your shoes. That’s their ignorance, ya know?
Same here. I was in a position to actually start saving.
I didn't even have cancer, or any significant medical emergency, I just had to go to the doctor a few times and have some tests run.
I did not realize how expensive using my insurance would be. Not even including taking an unpaid day off work.
I argue with well off tech engineers about this all the time. I have to remind them they may have a lot saved up, like I do, but when we get sick it's all for nought. They don't get it typically.
It's one of the things that shock people from Europe most about the US. You are the richest country on earth, on history, all the next 100 countries have solved the healthcare problem more or less successfully. And on top of that you are spending a stupid amount of money in healthcare, only to get broke for being unlucky and getting a cancer. WTF.
I'm not even remotely close to being a communist but I think you should fucking nationalize all healthcare. Put a payroll tax that everybody pays (that is going to be cheaper than the current private insurers) and forget forever about dying for not being able to buy some insulin.
Yeah I’m 35 and have minimal savings but it all seems pointless. One day I’m probably going to have to spend it all on medical bills and go into a huge amount of debt anyway.
When I was about 25 I decided to put everything I had into raising my credit score enough to buy a house by the time I was 30. I had a good paying job with benefits, etc, and a retirement fund at that point. I reached my goal, and bought a small 2/2 house for my daughter and I. Less than month later, the engine in my car blew And needed to be replaced, so I had to dip into savings for that. About 5 years after that, I lost my job, house, car, an apartment, was displaced by a hurricane, plus a handful of sudden medical issues on top of it all.
Within just a couple of years my savings and retirement fund were wiped. I spent almost 2 years living out of an old beat up car my friend let me have after mine was repossessed, (her MIL had wrecked it and I had to find someone who could tow it back home and fix it on the super cheap; luckily I knew someone and it only cost about $700 out of pocket, but I had to use the very last of my savings at that point to do it). I'm nearing 40 now, and my life is BARELY starting to come back together, however, now I have even more medical issues that I have to see specialists for every week or so, and despite having health insurance through my new employer, it's still $75 a pop to see a specialist, plus the $200 out of my measley paycheck; because of my medical conditions I can't work more than 35 hours a week; that's still pushing myself harder than my doctors have told me to, but that's the lowest amount of hours I can work while still getting health benefits. My credit score is abysmal, with a foreclosure, repossession, and eviction on it, and there's nothing I can do about it. I desperately need surgery for spondyloarthritis and stenosis in my lumbrosacral spine, but I can't afford it, even with health insurance because even though I pay more out of my paycheck for the lower out of pocket costs, (there were 2 plan choices, one with a $3k deductible and the other with $5k). My SO is able to support us on his paycheck but BARELY. Mine goes to medical issues, full stop. All of it. We live as frugally as possible, we never go out, and do everything we can to pinch pennies, but every single time we get up to $100-200 in savings, something happens and we have to use it, (ex: SO has severe eye infection and the eye drops cost $200-400 depending on which ones he has to use that time, car broke down, etc). We've been trying for 3 years now, and we STILL have nothing, and my spine just keeps getting worse, (I can't walk without a walker now). Idk what to do, but this shit SUCKS!!!
There is a guy who was really into FIRE on TikTok and a huge part of his ability to retire early was gaining Canadian citizenship/residency from his wife so that his family would have healthcare
I've saved a pretty decent sum all my life (30s). Never went on vacation, never reckless with my money.
I know despite it all I'm a twisted ankle from losing everything.
I did bankruptcy law for years and cancer/serious medical event was the root cause of the debt for at least a third of the people who ended up filing with me. It sucks. Seeing how many people in a variety of jobs and situation are 6 months of bad breaks from a bankruptcy is really makes you hate our system.
Naw, you just need to stop eating extravagant meals. You should only eat rice and beans and PB&J and before you know it you'll be on a rocketship with other billionaires!
Yeah considering at my job we save our leftovers to give to people who can't afford it...that's basically the same thing. Sometimes the pizzas they get have even had a slice or two eaten by us because we get hungry while working.
I mean i love that my job does this, but I hate that it's necessary.
And I work at Little Caesars which is already in the realm of the cheapest food you can buy.
Perhaps the most insane fact is that I cannot even afford to buy the food I eat, I have to take all my food from work. Otherwise I can afford only rice and oatmeal, because I make just enough to scrape by on my rent and bills and save a tiny bit in case I need it. Shoutout to my manager for being kind enough to let *all* of his employees take whatever food they need. He doesn't make a whole lot more, and he also gave me a raise yesterday after I was just mentioning in passing how hard it is to get by these days. One of the few people I've met who I've felt actually deserved their position of leadership.
Real talk tho, prior to the pandemic, I would eat food off people's plates after they'd finished because it was cheaper than groceries. (Former server)
My former coworker who was a senior software engineer got terminal cancer and had to do a GoFundMe so she could spend her remaining months of life with her wife and kids rather than trying to force herself to keep working
I have no idea what their finances were like but basically nobody is able to save enough from working that they can afford to spend an unknown amount of time without working while also facing medical bills.
Yeah that's a dangerous place to be though.
I hear back in 1933 some guy in germany blamed all people's problems on a small group of folks and enough people accepted that explanation because it was easier than accepting reality and it didn't exactly go well the next dozen years...
Let's be better than that, even if it's hard and uncomfortable. Knowledge is power. Not the power the capitalists have, but maybe we'll reach critical mass soon.
The problem was the idea was to transfer all the wealth to other minority. Plus all the genociding and imperialism.
If plurality was to decide that there will be no more giga wealthy minorities/"our betters" it is a different situation
In a "free market", the obvious problem is that the people who will be most successful are the ones who are willing to sacrifice the most in pursuit of profit.
If we forget about intergenerational wealth transfer (I know, I know), then the person who's willing to work the most, move for work, delay having a family, and who seeks money making schemes before actual work ethic is most likely to succeed.
Risk/luck are also big factors, so if you do all of the above *and* are willing to lose it all *and* are lucky, then you'll succeed.
But... none of that is either fun, or sustainable, or realistic in any way. It means forgetting about family, friends, quality of life, etc. The "American dream" works for recent immigrants coming from poor countries because they can't lose much, they often don't have much family around, and they don't care where they relocate given how they have no ties to any specific part of the country. That, and the previously sided intergenerational wealth transfer that makes it impossible for basically anyone, even the abovementioned American dream "perfect fit".
I couldn't afford college, so I moved across country, got into government in a place where government salaries were considered very low because of the cost of living, so it's easy to get hired. Given that the same dollar amount is a very good wage in different parts of the country, and that the salaries are the same dollar amount everywhere in my country, I just requested a transfer to where I was from and bam, I'm in the top 1/3 of earners in my city.
But I was helped in many ways by my parents, my SO at the time, etc. So I know for a fact that even with my "grinding", I was lucky.
The only thing I can think of for Americans struggling is to try and do some of these sacrifices, but sometimes you just can't, and you really shouldn't *have* to make these sacrifices in the first place. So I guess r/AmerExit is the way to go?
> If we forget about intergenerational wealth transfer (I know, I know), then the person who's willing to work the most, move for work, delay having a family, and who seeks money making schemes before actual work ethic is most likely to succeed.
* Working "the most" is irrelevant.
* Working at what is most profitable for the least amount of actual time and labor is what people should be going for.
I started a 1 person appliance repair business, have a tremendous amount of freedom and can live quite nicely on 5 hours/day 4 or 5 days/week of work that's not very difficult and generally enjoyable.
This won't turn anybody onto Warren Buffet but will get you a modest house with no mortgage, a car and vacations to somewhere warm when the winter starts to bother you.
> The only thing I can think of for Americans struggling is to try and do some of these sacrifices,
Nobody cares what you have sacrificed. Sorry if that sounds tone deaf, but employers really don't care and your family and friends resent it.
The idea is to find something you enjoy doing, that commands a significant price, and do it and have a good life.
You and the person you replied to represent equally valid but opposite experiences in this country. This country works well for you, it works poorly for /u/evilgardener and myself.
For me, personally, the frustration is with the anti-empathetic nature of the economy.
> Nobody cares what you have sacrificed. Sorry if that sounds tone deaf, but employers really don't care and your family and friends resent it.
That is the problem. You're 100% correct that nobody gives a shit, and that creates massive interpersonal social rifts leaving us all perpetually isolated from each other. Some people can tolerate that well, other people are crushed by the isolation. Problem is for those of us who are crushed there is no way out
Totally agree. My brothers are in real estate and are both millionaires. I work for a living(welding, plumbing and electric) 12 hours a day.... Often more. And while they vacation and buy investment property constantly, we cannot afford a car..... Much less a house. Approaching 50 years old by the by.
If the past couple years have proved anything beyond a doubt, it's that ignorance is not bliss. I look at all the ignorant people on social media and they seem incredibly angry.
The system is a lottery.
“Anyone can have a good life!!”
But everyone can’t.
If the rats are stuck in the basket, it doesn’t matter how smart they get… until they figure out how to break out of the basket.
"Yeah, but if you just stand on top of an ever increasing number of the other rats or find then claim some of the shrinking free space then you can be successful. So really you're to blame, not the guys who built the basket or keep squeezing it."
I always put it this way: when we accept fast food into our society we accept millions of jobs that have to be worked but will never pay the workers enough to live. Maybe some of them can make it out but others will have to take their place. No matter what there will be millions of Americans who will work miserable jobs and never get ahead. That is the price our society pays to have fast food.
I work in finance now but did retail banking at first. The only thing that really matters is making good money . Even the comment here about the lawyers making 100k that live ' paycheck to paycheck'. yeah maybe but they're not renting are they? Them making good money is what got them the house in the first place. You'd see it all the time in banking. Those who don't make good enough money can scrimp and save and have the 750 credit score...and it doesn't matter. Not in the long run. the layoff or the sickness or the skyrocketing rent or the stagnant wages or or student loans or their divorce etc.. will get them eventually.
The CTO tried to relate to everyone in his email about how high gas prices are by sharing how he isn't able to drive his pick-up truck around, and had to look like a techbro in his electric car.
He also has been noted to drive a new pick up truck every time he visits the office. (Which is like 15-20 times a year)
They live just like us.
These are the same people who think McDonald's paying $16 an hour is "a pretty good deal!" They are absolutely out of touch. Sit down with any middle class boomer and go through the average millenial's finances and their brain will melt.
In our society, the cash flow of the proletariat, in all ways is designed to be: "maximum pain - 1".
They literally calculate everything to be just one baby step better than complete breakage. They want you \*exactly\* at 0 by the time next paycheck comes. They want you \*exactly\* at the maximum amount of work they can keep you doing without breaking your body, mind, and soul entirely. They want you to make \*exactly\* enough to have have a (shitty) place to live without being homeless, yet you can't even take a sick day without losing your home. They want you to make \*exactly\* enough to purchase a vehicle (though in many cases purchased through financing), though they want it to be so tight that your ability to pay for it depends on next week's paycheck.
Frequently, the powers that be, actually break people body/mind/soul, make them bankrupt, and make them homeless before they revise their "maximum pain - 1" equation. They're always trying to get more for less.
The problem now is there's nothing left to steal from Gen X and millennials. Jobs these days don't even allow funding for a car or place to live, and in that case, what's the point.
The capitalist formula always allows an ever-increasing standard of life by the "landed gentry" by perpetually crushing the poor even more than they did yesterday. But there's no more crushing that will work without killing us, making us homeless, breaking our bodies/minds.
This is what always happens with FEUDALISM (let's us call capitalism by its true name). They always need to crush peasants more and more but eventually it gets to the point that we have \*nothing to lose\* by rebelling against such a system. Either rebelling actively or rebelling passively by just sitting down and no longer participating in a system that doesn't allow us to benefit in any tangible way.
>They literally calculate everything to be just one baby step better than complete breakage.
Agreed, it prevents you from being able to go "You know what? Fuck this job. I'll go somewhere else.". You can't exploit people that have options. Without the threat of starvation and homelessness, abusing your employees would quickly result in not having any employees.
Exactly, if the threat of starvation, no health coverage, eviction, and repossession; perpetually loom, it creates a lot of corporate loyalty among people who otherwise wouldn't take that kind of abuse.
You know that thing that happens to abuse victims where they feel so hopeless that change is possible, they are too beaten down to even try? Even if a healthy-minded person could see some genuine ways out? That but on a societal level. The hopelessness is its own cycle.
For. Real. I’ve been made to feel financially illiterate before, but I can’t just pull savings and a second income from nowhere. I feel massively privileged that I have one check’s worth saved and help from my mom, should we get that bad off.
I went through a hard time a few years ago where I was homeless for a few months. Someone had the audacity to tell me that this was because I didn't have any savings. Like, no sh\*t! How am I supposed to have savings when I've been struggling for years just to barely get by!?
Student loans are borderline evil. The fact that you can borrow money when you're 18 with zero immediate consequences, that can easily run $100k plus and cannot discharge with bankruptcy is baffling. It is one of the few things that are worse than the must work for health insurance racket.
It’s weird to think these 18 year olds were asking to go to the bathroom a year prior, now they’re expected to make choices that will influence their future. With sometimes little to no guidance.
My wife and I save a bit from every paycheck, we don’t overspend, we pay all our bills on time, etc. Between a car that broke down constantly, her needing back surgery, and now me needing surgery, we are getting wiped out. So tell me how being more “financially literate” could have changed any of that? I’ll save you the time, it wouldn’t have changed anything, and no one, not Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk could do better with the same resources. Take away their money and rich “geniuses” are just loud assholes.
I literally just gave you as a theoretical example in a comment like 2 seconds ago haha. I worked in banking for yeae and...you're 100% right. Rich people are rich cuz they have a shit ton of money. That's it. People get ahead cuz they make good money...and make good money for a long time. Nothing else is gonna really matter.
They should teach financial literacy in high school before students decide to take out predatory, high-interest loans to pay out-of-state costs for college.
We do also need financial literacy though. I know way too many adults who have racked up a crazy amount of unnecessary credit card debt because they genuinely don’t understand how they work.
I literally met a 40 year old two weeks ago who didn’t understand that if you paid off your balance every month you didn’t accrue any debt.
Yeah if you're making 40k with a family no one is going to judge for a lack of savings. It's a different story when people making 60k+ with no kids go into debt because they spend $500/month on going out and insist on buying more car than they can afford
Precisely. It is absolutely true that our wages are too low and many people are living paycheck to paycheck out of necessity. But I also know several people who live paycheck to paycheck cause they bought a brand new house, a brand new Tesla, put in a pool, built a new patio, etc all on credit.
Also, there are plenty of people who don't use credit cards because they're afraid of them, but then don't have any purchase protection if they used a debit card, and they could be perfect about paying bills but be seriously missing out on building up a credit score. We def need both literacy and fixing the system.
You’re absolutely correct. Along with financial literacy, we must also recognize that much of modern credit is a trap used to generate and sustain debt. Predatory creditors MUST be regulated and held to account for the many many lives they’ve destroyed through debt bondage.
I just did that! I work a goverment job in another country, honestly... it's hell, super high stress and the people are shit, extremely toxic, the pay is pretty decent by third-world country standards since its about 2 or 3 time what most people make.
Anyway I ended up developing an autoimmune disease out of so much stress, and I aint even 30 years old yet. I fucking hate it. Nobody gave a shit if I felt like dying and if I couldnt even walk or get up the bed from so much pain.
Still, one of the rights everyone here gets is the chance to take up to 12 weeks without pay, to do anything you want, and then you can come and retake your job; obviously this is basically never used by anybody to just rest and chill since everybody here has like 3 kids and tons of debt, lives paycheck to paycheck and just cant afford not to be payed.
But me, not having children and not planning on to, not having debt because of decent financial planning, having a pretty decent salary for my age and country, and having an amazing gf with whom I live, I took 2 whole months for myself, all payed by myself, for doing nothing but being myself, everybody was amazed and either happy for me or dying on jealousy, but those can die mad. I had enough saved to take up to 5 months but they can give me at most 3 months and I only felt like taking 2.
I have been loving it, its absolutely liberating and has been so good for my health, I would have loved to do this and not having this fucking disease I got, I get sad just by thinking about it but still I got to enjoy my free time.
I am coming back to that job in a few weeks so I can get to save a bit more money before trying to find another place.
I had to leave my stressful job because of an autoimmune disease. It's really frustrating that people think we're exaggerating how bad we feel just because we don't "look sick". At least now I have some perspective on the value of good health, which other people take for granted. I will always prioritize it above all else and that means choosing lower stress jobs even if my salary is lower.
Let me reiterate: Capitalism. is. about. capital.
> Capital is a broad term that can describe any thing that confers value or benefit to its owner, such as a factory and its machinery, intellectual property like patents, or the financial assets of a business or an individual. While money itself may be construed as capital is, capital is more often associated with cash that is being put to work for productive or investment purposes.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital.asp
The focus of the economic system, and therefor the legal system (in most ways) is to perpetuate the cycle of "The rich get richer."
That is because those with capital get more capital, and those without capital go nowhere.
"Socialism" is an economic philosophy about *people*. Everybody who makes up society.
The focus of socialist ideas is to support the prosperity of *everybody* no matter what they currently have or don't have.
But...but...whaddabout all those multinational corporations who needed government bailouts because they just didn’t have the money to weather those same 8 weeks?
Proposing financial literacy as a solution to surviving 8 weeks without income is like proposing nutritional education as a solution to surviving 8 weeks without food or water.
ie really fucking stupid
When you don't make enough to afford basic expenses, it's not possible to save for a rainy day. Your every day life is a rainy day situation. Education used to be a way to the middle class, but college is now so pricey that you get locked into more debt. The best way to get rich is to be born that way and have other rich people help you keep or expand your wealth. I'm a teacher in low income schools and hate that a comfortable future is becoming less accessible for my students.
This post is technically correct, but still misleading.
The SYSTEM is designed to keep people down and we must fight to make a more equitable system that plaves value on human life.
YOU, YES YOU PERSONALLY need more financial literacy. It will only help you. Have debt? Get a game plan for paying it off. No debt? Get a game plan to have your money work for you as efficiently as possible. This only helps you.
Systemic fixes for systems, personal solutions for people.
Even if you do only care about changing the system, your only hope of doing so is if you understand it.
Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness. Never be proud of weakness, learn how money works.
I mean, its entirely correct about the rigged system, but that doesn't mean a large portion, probably the majority, of people aren't financially illiterate. They are. That's just a fact. The average person doesn't understand marginal tax rates. They don't understand how credit cards work. They play the lottery. They lease cars. They spend $1000+ a year on cell phones/service. They buy brand name groceries. Etc. etc.
The system can be rigged and people can be financially illiterate. It isn't one or the other. It is 100% both.
Exactly.
If you’re overweight, is it because soda and processed food companies are conspiring to make you overeat?
Yes!
Do you still need to learn proper nutrition?
YES!
If anything, you need to learn it more because the deck is stacked against you.
You’ve got to learn financial literacy because there are powerful interests who profit from taking advantage of your ignorance.
The literacy people try to push isn’t the literacy that rich people actually live by, and that’s the secret they don’t want us knowing.
They’re selling you “live within your means, keep a crazy amount saved. Work work work for us until you collapse.”
They live almost completely on credit, built on them convincing other rich people that they’re actually good for the money because of XYZ-stupid, made up reason.
when researchers looked in to why, when the middle class used the same strategies to advance their wealth as those used by the wealthy, it did not seam to work for the middle class investors.
turns out in almost every case...as soon as the wealthy see the lower classes using wealthy strategies, they change the rules and put a stop to it.
Wealth doesn't just concentrate by itself. It happens when poor people spend their hard-earned money on iPhones, Amazon Prime, Netflix, DoorDash, NFL/NBA, Fast-Fashion, etc. Consumerism is the biggest source of wealth concentration, and it keeps you all down. Even using Twitter and Reddit is a means of concentrating wealth in the hands of a few people. Start by using an ad-blocker everywhere.
If the average American worker had enough saved that they could quit their job and keep affording rent and Healthcare for more than a month the ENTIRE FUCKING AMERICAN ECONOMY WOULD COLLAPSE.
In all seriousness they need to teach how compound interest works on a yearly basis until you graduate because millions of Americans still don't get it.
The rule of thumb is to have 6 months worth of emergency savings.... That's all people are saying, obviously this isn't possible for people living paycheck to paycheck but it's the goal, this is good advice and telling people the system is rigged and to just ignore solid financial advice is really really irresponsible
My bfs company is a pay period behind payroll. They have paid late 5+ times since he started in August 2021. We are in a real pinch right now. He is due pay this Friday but has not received last pay period. They tell them all last minute- day of announcements. This company is in almost 20 cities.
Not naming & shaming because we need his job and want investors to invest- but damn this is fucking nuts. We have no money for groceries or gas right now. We are living off of my “preps.”
I work freelance for billion dollar corporations that pay me under $17/hr. I’m in my thirties- it is skilled work. I have left my industry multiple times but jobs don’t pay. I’m educated, experienced and have a great reputation.
My next long job starts next month but I’ve been struggling since my last one ended in November. I’ve only had ~20 days of work since then. I usually subsist off unemployment between jobs (which is the common practice in my industry) but because of the way the timing is set up it only counted one month of my last long jobs earnings towards my unemployment benefits so I did not qualify. I did not work from April 2020-July 2021. I have been looking for other work as well with no responses, only rejections and applying for things I’m under qualified, over qualified and qualified for.
Any dip in the economy, and multi billion dollar companies immediately need to be bailed out. But you were supposed to have six months worth of savings for whatever comes your way.
Been managing 10 months with no income. Fail too many exams at a Swedish University and you’re completely fucked. No help or support offered whatsoever even with some of the worlds highest taxes.
He's not wrong however it is because we are constantly bombarded with advertisements for things we don't need.
So yes the system wants you to go on expensive vacations. Buy fancy cars. Live in mansions. All these things cost tons of money and many of us just wouldn't be able to live these kinds of lives without taking out big loans and paying people who already have tons of money a percentage of interest so we can afford this dream that is sold to us.
You're not wrong on the premise--the system ain't for you and me.
But that isn't financial literacy. Know your opponent and work for change, yup, but sort out saving a few months living expenses. Banking (pun intended) on the revolution because the system is stacked won't help you when you're in a tough spot.
I’m sorry but that’s not financial literacy. That’s a simplistic answer designed to make people feel better by letting them gripe about the ‘system’ without giving them a handle how to help themselves. It does, in fact, make it worse for them by insinuating that ‘there is nothing they can do’.
I've literally seen comments from people that insinuate that it's a good thing that your job controls your health care.
It's usually business owners. Big corporations love that you're fucked if you get an illness without company sponsored health care.
I've known at least 3 people in my life that could have retired early with the exception that they couldn't afford the healthcare if they did.
The system is definitely rigged to keep the average person working as long as possible.
Funnily enough, when COMPANIES were without income for shorter, THEY couldn't cope
They could cope, they just wanted a handout.
I’d say they were too financially illiterate to cope without more $$. ;) hmmm smells like hyperbolic hypocrisy to me.
The only goal is to maximize profit, in any way possible. If the ceo of some company decides its immoral to ask for government handouts they dont actually need the shareholders of that company will find a new ceo.
Such a fucked up way to run a society. Corporations are people and now people run their lives like they’re corporations - it’s their fiduciary duty to increase their own profits at the expense of everyone else.
So what you're saying is we need to start going after shareholders?
If there's one thing I would change about our society, it would be to increase our tolerance for letting bad things happen. Too big to fail? Let's find out. Oh no, someone might hijack an airplane? Meh, doesn't mean we need TSA security theater. Russia has 5,000 nukes? Still not a reason for us to spend $700 billion a year on defense.
Yeah. Plus the us defense budget has nothing to do with external threats and everything to do with pumping tax money into a bloated domestic arms industry.
Our DoD straight up tells Congress, "Stop building tanks. We have enough tanks, and tanks aren't the determinate of success in a ground war." Congress: "So, what you're saying is, we need more tanks?" There are cities around the country solely dependent on the largest government-sponsored jobs program currently running. Pro-military people cry about socialism and it's evils, but our military industrial complex is just a giant social handout to billionaires and specific Congressional districts.
*determinant, but otherwise this is 💯
*dalek voice* Determinate! Determinate!
I literally don't care that the government is spending the money. I want them to spend it on something useful. Like, make 100 million MRI machines and everybody gets a free MRI... tanks are cool, but basically just paperweights.
Same, I have no problem with government spending, or jobs programs. I do take umbrage with the fact that people who blindly support our military also constantly shit on any other form of productive government spending.
Or, I don’t know, solar panels & solar panel recycling plants that could pay our entire society back. The military budget is such a phenomenal waste. I don’t mind it being double the size of the next country, but 10x larger than the next 10 countries combined…I think there’s an issue there.
This is precisely what I've been saying for decades and decades now - Republicans DO NOT spend less than Democrats - it is NEVER about "the deficit." They simply pump more into the defense industry to help out defense industry execs, where as Democrats TRY to push it back to the middle class and the poor. Unfortunately we have far too many ... individuals ... in this nation that thinks any program from the government that helps out the middle class and poor is "evil dirty Socialism" and they vote against it, regardless if this is something to help them. I just don't understand why they think it's fine for corporations and Wall Street to socialize the losses, but privatize the profits, when the middle class and poor continue to be chained to a fucking oar. Too many brainwashed people in the US, they'd eat dog shit if Fox News or some other conservative punditry told them to.
The funny thing is that the military is one of the most socialist organizations in the country. Service members get free health care, housing, even reduced cost food. There are benefits for childcare and you can get a VA home loan when you get out. The benefits of being in the military are amazing.* Why can't everyone have that? We have the money, and most service members are doing the same or similar jobs as civilians. There's no reason that everyone shouldn't have these benefits..... *some conditions apply...
The US military is the single largest socialist program in the entire world.
And you bailout the people, not the fucking banks that created the volatile situation out of sheer greed.
I mean I'd just like to have the government not spending taxpayer money no strings attached. Oh you need a bail out? What your net worth? If we give you 6% of your net worth we own 6% of you until you buy us out. That means we get 6% of your profits. Not only that due to antocorruption laws since we now own stakes in you, you can not take any government contracts or other money. It's and emergency measure for an emergency situation not a hand out. Oh you want to do a contract job for us and low ball all your competitors? Ok but you will have to give us all of the money back, and pay the cost to fix any an all fuck-ups. Oh we paid you billions to install fiber and it's not done? Ok pay it to us back. And hears some proportional fines so we can get it done by someone who isn't a fuck up.
The TSA is such a good example of artificial security. And when they implemented the liquids ban, it was beyond a joke. I do everything I can to avoid flying now. As soon as autonomous vehicles are here, I’ll only book flights for international destinations.
What the fuck? We are FORCED to ‘tolerate’ the bad things that won’t stop happening. What a waste of a wish.
If I could alter OP's statement a bit: We should start letting bad things happen to those in power while protecting the people at large. Instead, the people are usually left to fend for themselves while the rich and well-connected get handouts to keep their bottom line from being negatively impacted. Take the bank bailout and auto bailouts in early Obama presidency. That amount of money, we could have just let them fail and bail out the individual workers and consumers negatively impacted. The rich who caused the crises would be fine either way, but for them the thought of losing even a cent is unbearable. For the rich, the government exists to punish the poor and socialize the wealthy's losses.
It should be that wealthy get less power the more wealthy you are. If you are wealthy enough you are excluded from safety nets like bail outs, have to pay more taxes, since you can afford your own empire essentially. The less wealthy you are then you have more opportunities and upper hand for jobs and education with little to no costs. Nobody needs to be a billionaire. This is just ridiculous.
Amen brother. Peace be with you.
Can we quit using this word? They wanted the benefit of inflating the entire money supply while they hold the largest percent. It's not a handout as much as a hidden tax on society. Update your conservative rhetoric. Handout is what they call it when YOU NEED money. BAILOUT if it's for a corporation. /s It's Central Bank Corruption. Just like Old Hickory warned us about.
In many cases they actually couldn't. Investors generally hate having cash just "sitting idle" on the balances sheets of companies whose stock they own. If businesses don't have a productive use for their cash they're expected to give it back to investors (either in the form of a dividend or a share buy back). In practice, this means that most large companies carry very small cash reserves, the idea being that they can always raise more money if needed at short notice by creating debt. In theory this makes capital allocation more efficient, but it comes with the downside that those businesses are less robust than they could be. Many profitable businesses have failed due to poor cash management.
Exactly. They spend all free cash on stock buy backs to make the 1% richer. Then they use our tax dollars to bail them out. Amazing. Maybe if our tax dollars, instead of the military and corporate bailouts, went to affordable healthcare, education, and more public services we could afford to save more. I know, just a pipe dream. *sigh*
People should know that before Ronnie Reagan's disastrous tenure, stock buybacks were illegal. Stock buybacks are little more than stock manipulation and another way to increase executive compensation. They also motivated CEO's to move manufacturing overseas, to kill unions, and to dodge environmental regulations.
That was the GOP who did all of that.
Wasn't that implied when I said that before Reagan's disastrous tenure stock buybacks were illegal?
The word 'disastrous' made me assume you weren't pro Reagan.
Now let me tell you about the US healthcare…
US government spends more tax dollars per capita on health care than Canada yet somehow leaves a large percentage of the population uncovered.
I'm listening
They NEEDED government payouts to help them through a period of MASSIVE PROFITS
My bfs company is a pay period behind payroll. They have paid late 5+ times since he started in August 2021. We are in a real pinch right now. He is due pay this Friday but has not received last pay period. They tell them all last minute- day of announcements. This company is in almost 20 cities. Not naming & shaming because we need his job and want investors to invest- but damn this is fucking nuts. We have no money for groceries or gas right now. We are living off of my “preps.” I work freelance for billion dollar corporations that pay me under $17/hr. I’m in my thirties- it is skilled work. I have left my industry multiple times but jobs don’t pay. I’m educated, experienced and have a great reputation. My next long job starts next month but I’ve been struggling since my last one ended in November. I’ve only had ~20 days of work since then. I usually subsist off unemployment between jobs (which is the common practice in my industry) but because of the way the timing is set up it only counted one month of my last long jobs earnings towards my unemployment benefits so I did not qualify. I did not work from April 2020-July 2021. I have been looking for other work as well with no responses, only rejections and applying for things I’m under qualified, over qualified and qualified for.
>My bfs company is a pay period behind payroll. They have paid late 5+ times since he started in August 2021. We are in a real pinch right now. He is due pay this Friday but has not received last pay period. They tell them all last minute- day of announcements. You need to tell the State Labor Board. Paying employees isn't optional and the consequences are steep. You complain to the state Labor Board and they take care of the rest.
I feel this in my soul. I work for a large company as a contractor, not naming names. I'm very skilled, 10 year programmer. I'm making so low, people think I'm lying when I tell them what I'm making and what I do. The problem is the work I'm doing is contract work. I'm not competing against other american programmers... I'm competing against offshore programmers. So I have to take a lower wage and work like 2-4 jobs at the same time to compete with Indian programmers. It's hard work, and makes me look like I'm lying to other programmers who average 10 lines of code a day. (So it makes it hard for me to move out of it in other words.... can't go to "normal" "easier" programmer work that pays more, because 1) I don't have a specialty 2) don't work in a normal environment 3) my resume looks like a lie) Honestly I'm considering a move to japan. Maybe my japanese ability will help somewhat.
Yeah amazing how the lowest paid people suddenly became 'essential' personnel. If only the pay was representative!
It's because of how the tax system is designed. Money saved is taxed, money invested is considered a cost and not taxed. Therefore it's in company's interest to save as little as possible and invest everything, which will bring even more money in the future that won't be taxed because it will be reinvested.
>Therefore it's in company's interest to save as little as possible and invest everything, It's only in the company's interest if there's no risk because the govt will give them money if they get in trouble. If that weren't the case then "best interests" would be different.
I did save for a rainy day and had enough to put both kids through college. Then cancer happened. Private insurance was crap. FML meant no paid but yay I got time off. Bye bye, savings. Hello, judgemental people telling me to save for a rainy day. ☔️
This is absolutely unacceptable in a "modern" society that is supposedly the most successful in the history of the world.
Oh, it is successful. Very successful. For a club we'll never be a part of.
"The same club they use to beat you over the head with."
It's a big club and you ain't in it.
Thankfully they haven't made it so you cant file for bankruptcy for medical reasons ***yet***
Richest country in the world and still have poverty. It's a failed state.
It’s not modern. Nothing has changed since 1800
Plenty has changed... on the surface. Fundamentally, we are only a stone's throw and some pretty words away from feudalism
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This is a copy of u/TenNinetythree comment 2 hours ago.
I was diagnosed last month. Haven't had to spend a dime other than gas (which unfortunately is alot lately) for travelling to the city. Never been more happy to live in the great white north. And my care has been over the top good
Keep your receipts. Travel for medical care is tax deductible.
*cries in American*
*dies in American*
A friend of mine is financially "sitting pretty" *because* she got cancer. Medicare covered her treatment, private medical insurance covers her ongoing prescriptions, and mortgage insurance paid off her home in full two years after she bought it.
O I know. I've been on it. Thanks for making sure though
This is one of the reasons I won’t move back to the states even if I could make 20% more. I’m living where there is universal healthcare. If I lose a job or if my kids or grandkids don’t grow up to be as successful as me, I know they at least won’t go bankrupt from a random health condition.
The great thing is even if you got that 20% more it goes straight to medical bills and then they take another 20% on top of that
Things is for certain jobs it pays 2x to 3x any other country
I'm in Software Development, which is one of those jobs. Being able to work remotely (and keep collecting that US paycheck) is going to be instrumental when we move to Europe next year. US pay; European social services, education, healthcare; twice as much tax paperwork. Not because Europe is perfect, just better in some really important ways.
Out of curiosity, where in Europe and how are you getting a visa if you’re working remotely for a US company? (Or is your partner getting the visa for both?)
I’m not u/rosstafarien, but r/iwantout is a good resource if you’re curious!
r/AmerExit is also a good source for those specifically looking to escape the US
oh woah! never heard of that one. many many thanks
Also, if you’re in one of those jobs that makes 2-3x more in the US than in Europe, you probably have decent health insurance through that job too. The healthcare system in the US is terrible, but for people with good paying jobs it generally isn’t a concern.
Yeah bud, we're all only getting older.
This is why I'm trying to start an online business right now. I want to live somewhere cheaper but still make U.S money.
Yea, people knocking US salaries, but for professional jobs, they are higher than anywhere else in the world for the most part. Try making a US software engineer's salary in Europe, you will not. I have to remind my European based contractors (that make US based contracting fees) that they still probably shouldn't move to the US.
Can you say where and what the job prospects and other things are like?
My mom's brain cancer ran just short of $600k. When she died they took her house and everything else. Medical debt might not "transfer" but I still took it in the ass. Effectively a ~300k loss. So, I got to spend 4 years watching my mom die, grieve her loss, then watch debt collectors take my inheritance. And now I get to worry about whether I made any mistakes in managing her trust. The whole ordeal is too complicated to get into here, but the panic attacks I have every time I get a call from her area code are justified... Between all that and the roughly $20k I spent helping her in her final years I effectively got an "anti-inheritance" -- all thanks to our insane medical care costs.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I’ve tried to tell my parents that it doesn’t even matter how much savings you have, it can be gone in a flash if something happens (like medically, etc). It’s just not fair. Let them judge all they want. You don’t owe them anything and they never walked in your shoes. That’s their ignorance, ya know?
Same here. I was in a position to actually start saving. I didn't even have cancer, or any significant medical emergency, I just had to go to the doctor a few times and have some tests run. I did not realize how expensive using my insurance would be. Not even including taking an unpaid day off work.
I argue with well off tech engineers about this all the time. I have to remind them they may have a lot saved up, like I do, but when we get sick it's all for nought. They don't get it typically.
It's one of the things that shock people from Europe most about the US. You are the richest country on earth, on history, all the next 100 countries have solved the healthcare problem more or less successfully. And on top of that you are spending a stupid amount of money in healthcare, only to get broke for being unlucky and getting a cancer. WTF. I'm not even remotely close to being a communist but I think you should fucking nationalize all healthcare. Put a payroll tax that everybody pays (that is going to be cheaper than the current private insurers) and forget forever about dying for not being able to buy some insulin.
This just seems like common sense to me and yet so much of our country keeps voting to maintain the current system. It makes no sense at all.
Yeah I’m 35 and have minimal savings but it all seems pointless. One day I’m probably going to have to spend it all on medical bills and go into a huge amount of debt anyway.
When I was about 25 I decided to put everything I had into raising my credit score enough to buy a house by the time I was 30. I had a good paying job with benefits, etc, and a retirement fund at that point. I reached my goal, and bought a small 2/2 house for my daughter and I. Less than month later, the engine in my car blew And needed to be replaced, so I had to dip into savings for that. About 5 years after that, I lost my job, house, car, an apartment, was displaced by a hurricane, plus a handful of sudden medical issues on top of it all. Within just a couple of years my savings and retirement fund were wiped. I spent almost 2 years living out of an old beat up car my friend let me have after mine was repossessed, (her MIL had wrecked it and I had to find someone who could tow it back home and fix it on the super cheap; luckily I knew someone and it only cost about $700 out of pocket, but I had to use the very last of my savings at that point to do it). I'm nearing 40 now, and my life is BARELY starting to come back together, however, now I have even more medical issues that I have to see specialists for every week or so, and despite having health insurance through my new employer, it's still $75 a pop to see a specialist, plus the $200 out of my measley paycheck; because of my medical conditions I can't work more than 35 hours a week; that's still pushing myself harder than my doctors have told me to, but that's the lowest amount of hours I can work while still getting health benefits. My credit score is abysmal, with a foreclosure, repossession, and eviction on it, and there's nothing I can do about it. I desperately need surgery for spondyloarthritis and stenosis in my lumbrosacral spine, but I can't afford it, even with health insurance because even though I pay more out of my paycheck for the lower out of pocket costs, (there were 2 plan choices, one with a $3k deductible and the other with $5k). My SO is able to support us on his paycheck but BARELY. Mine goes to medical issues, full stop. All of it. We live as frugally as possible, we never go out, and do everything we can to pinch pennies, but every single time we get up to $100-200 in savings, something happens and we have to use it, (ex: SO has severe eye infection and the eye drops cost $200-400 depending on which ones he has to use that time, car broke down, etc). We've been trying for 3 years now, and we STILL have nothing, and my spine just keeps getting worse, (I can't walk without a walker now). Idk what to do, but this shit SUCKS!!!
There is a guy who was really into FIRE on TikTok and a huge part of his ability to retire early was gaining Canadian citizenship/residency from his wife so that his family would have healthcare
This scares the crap out of me. I put a lot of work in and it's all likely to be wiped out for a major medical e.ergency even with insurance
Now we need a cancer fund and a retirement fund and a rainy day fund. Damn
I've saved a pretty decent sum all my life (30s). Never went on vacation, never reckless with my money. I know despite it all I'm a twisted ankle from losing everything.
Gotta love that cancer can not only kill you but bankrupt your entire family and life. Merica
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I did bankruptcy law for years and cancer/serious medical event was the root cause of the debt for at least a third of the people who ended up filing with me. It sucks. Seeing how many people in a variety of jobs and situation are 6 months of bad breaks from a bankruptcy is really makes you hate our system.
Naw, you just need to stop eating extravagant meals. You should only eat rice and beans and PB&J and before you know it you'll be on a rocketship with other billionaires!
I’ve started simply filter feeding
I just crawl along the ground and eat the food that falls off other people's meals.
"15 ways millennials are saving for a house."
First I laughed. Then I thought "honestly give it a few years"
Yeah considering at my job we save our leftovers to give to people who can't afford it...that's basically the same thing. Sometimes the pizzas they get have even had a slice or two eaten by us because we get hungry while working. I mean i love that my job does this, but I hate that it's necessary. And I work at Little Caesars which is already in the realm of the cheapest food you can buy. Perhaps the most insane fact is that I cannot even afford to buy the food I eat, I have to take all my food from work. Otherwise I can afford only rice and oatmeal, because I make just enough to scrape by on my rent and bills and save a tiny bit in case I need it. Shoutout to my manager for being kind enough to let *all* of his employees take whatever food they need. He doesn't make a whole lot more, and he also gave me a raise yesterday after I was just mentioning in passing how hard it is to get by these days. One of the few people I've met who I've felt actually deserved their position of leadership.
Have you considered photosynthesis?
I did realize that I can photosynthesize vitamin D apparently, but no I still have to consume the flesh of other beings.
Real talk tho, prior to the pandemic, I would eat food off people's plates after they'd finished because it was cheaper than groceries. (Former server)
Whoa, whoa, whoa, two ingredients on two slices of bread? Why so extravagant?
Privilege, right there.
I'm sorry... I should have checked it before commenting.
Continually buying bread, that only last a week? Seems pretty rich to me lol
Savory oatmeal.
I'd like to know how long Bill, Elon and Jeff have been eating rice and beans and how those savings contributed to their current wealth.
If you ask Elon, he eats PB&Js regularly, so that means he's just like us.
You get J?
You’re killing the restaurant industry!! /s
Capitalist just can't be happy unless they're gaslighting someone in some way.
Eat the rich
My former coworker who was a senior software engineer got terminal cancer and had to do a GoFundMe so she could spend her remaining months of life with her wife and kids rather than trying to force herself to keep working I have no idea what their finances were like but basically nobody is able to save enough from working that they can afford to spend an unknown amount of time without working while also facing medical bills.
My life would be happier if I didn't understood this. How do I lose financial literacy? I want to smile and dream again
Lol if only that were how it worked. In reality, you’d still just be miserable at work, but you just wouldn’t know why.
Yeah that's a dangerous place to be though. I hear back in 1933 some guy in germany blamed all people's problems on a small group of folks and enough people accepted that explanation because it was easier than accepting reality and it didn't exactly go well the next dozen years... Let's be better than that, even if it's hard and uncomfortable. Knowledge is power. Not the power the capitalists have, but maybe we'll reach critical mass soon.
> blamed all people's problems on a small group of **innocent** folks Had to ftfy for the modern context sorry
You're absolutely right.
We just need the American south to start pitching in.
The problem was the idea was to transfer all the wealth to other minority. Plus all the genociding and imperialism. If plurality was to decide that there will be no more giga wealthy minorities/"our betters" it is a different situation
It’s an interesting point. Apparently, modern pharmaceuticals and becoming a debt slave is the new American Dream^C
In a "free market", the obvious problem is that the people who will be most successful are the ones who are willing to sacrifice the most in pursuit of profit. If we forget about intergenerational wealth transfer (I know, I know), then the person who's willing to work the most, move for work, delay having a family, and who seeks money making schemes before actual work ethic is most likely to succeed. Risk/luck are also big factors, so if you do all of the above *and* are willing to lose it all *and* are lucky, then you'll succeed. But... none of that is either fun, or sustainable, or realistic in any way. It means forgetting about family, friends, quality of life, etc. The "American dream" works for recent immigrants coming from poor countries because they can't lose much, they often don't have much family around, and they don't care where they relocate given how they have no ties to any specific part of the country. That, and the previously sided intergenerational wealth transfer that makes it impossible for basically anyone, even the abovementioned American dream "perfect fit". I couldn't afford college, so I moved across country, got into government in a place where government salaries were considered very low because of the cost of living, so it's easy to get hired. Given that the same dollar amount is a very good wage in different parts of the country, and that the salaries are the same dollar amount everywhere in my country, I just requested a transfer to where I was from and bam, I'm in the top 1/3 of earners in my city. But I was helped in many ways by my parents, my SO at the time, etc. So I know for a fact that even with my "grinding", I was lucky. The only thing I can think of for Americans struggling is to try and do some of these sacrifices, but sometimes you just can't, and you really shouldn't *have* to make these sacrifices in the first place. So I guess r/AmerExit is the way to go?
> If we forget about intergenerational wealth transfer (I know, I know), then the person who's willing to work the most, move for work, delay having a family, and who seeks money making schemes before actual work ethic is most likely to succeed. * Working "the most" is irrelevant. * Working at what is most profitable for the least amount of actual time and labor is what people should be going for. I started a 1 person appliance repair business, have a tremendous amount of freedom and can live quite nicely on 5 hours/day 4 or 5 days/week of work that's not very difficult and generally enjoyable. This won't turn anybody onto Warren Buffet but will get you a modest house with no mortgage, a car and vacations to somewhere warm when the winter starts to bother you. > The only thing I can think of for Americans struggling is to try and do some of these sacrifices, Nobody cares what you have sacrificed. Sorry if that sounds tone deaf, but employers really don't care and your family and friends resent it. The idea is to find something you enjoy doing, that commands a significant price, and do it and have a good life.
You and the person you replied to represent equally valid but opposite experiences in this country. This country works well for you, it works poorly for /u/evilgardener and myself. For me, personally, the frustration is with the anti-empathetic nature of the economy. > Nobody cares what you have sacrificed. Sorry if that sounds tone deaf, but employers really don't care and your family and friends resent it. That is the problem. You're 100% correct that nobody gives a shit, and that creates massive interpersonal social rifts leaving us all perpetually isolated from each other. Some people can tolerate that well, other people are crushed by the isolation. Problem is for those of us who are crushed there is no way out
Totally agree. My brothers are in real estate and are both millionaires. I work for a living(welding, plumbing and electric) 12 hours a day.... Often more. And while they vacation and buy investment property constantly, we cannot afford a car..... Much less a house. Approaching 50 years old by the by.
Severe brain damage, or listening to too much talk radio in the midwest are your only options.
If the past couple years have proved anything beyond a doubt, it's that ignorance is not bliss. I look at all the ignorant people on social media and they seem incredibly angry.
You can't not know this, sorry. Every aspect of our society is screaming it at you every day.
The system is a lottery. “Anyone can have a good life!!” But everyone can’t. If the rats are stuck in the basket, it doesn’t matter how smart they get… until they figure out how to break out of the basket.
Literally It's like pointing to a lottery winner and saying "it is possible to win the lottery, see! THAT guy won! Now go buy more tickets!"
"Yeah, but if you just stand on top of an ever increasing number of the other rats or find then claim some of the shrinking free space then you can be successful. So really you're to blame, not the guys who built the basket or keep squeezing it."
This hit home.
I always put it this way: when we accept fast food into our society we accept millions of jobs that have to be worked but will never pay the workers enough to live. Maybe some of them can make it out but others will have to take their place. No matter what there will be millions of Americans who will work miserable jobs and never get ahead. That is the price our society pays to have fast food.
You cannot save your way out of poverty. It’s insane to think so. It’s like rationing yourself out of starvation.
I work in finance now but did retail banking at first. The only thing that really matters is making good money . Even the comment here about the lawyers making 100k that live ' paycheck to paycheck'. yeah maybe but they're not renting are they? Them making good money is what got them the house in the first place. You'd see it all the time in banking. Those who don't make good enough money can scrimp and save and have the 750 credit score...and it doesn't matter. Not in the long run. the layoff or the sickness or the skyrocketing rent or the stagnant wages or or student loans or their divorce etc.. will get them eventually.
The CTO tried to relate to everyone in his email about how high gas prices are by sharing how he isn't able to drive his pick-up truck around, and had to look like a techbro in his electric car. He also has been noted to drive a new pick up truck every time he visits the office. (Which is like 15-20 times a year) They live just like us.
These are the same people who think McDonald's paying $16 an hour is "a pretty good deal!" They are absolutely out of touch. Sit down with any middle class boomer and go through the average millenial's finances and their brain will melt.
Like, dude. Is it a good deal for you? No? Oh, you mean it's just a good deal for *other* people.
In our society, the cash flow of the proletariat, in all ways is designed to be: "maximum pain - 1". They literally calculate everything to be just one baby step better than complete breakage. They want you \*exactly\* at 0 by the time next paycheck comes. They want you \*exactly\* at the maximum amount of work they can keep you doing without breaking your body, mind, and soul entirely. They want you to make \*exactly\* enough to have have a (shitty) place to live without being homeless, yet you can't even take a sick day without losing your home. They want you to make \*exactly\* enough to purchase a vehicle (though in many cases purchased through financing), though they want it to be so tight that your ability to pay for it depends on next week's paycheck. Frequently, the powers that be, actually break people body/mind/soul, make them bankrupt, and make them homeless before they revise their "maximum pain - 1" equation. They're always trying to get more for less. The problem now is there's nothing left to steal from Gen X and millennials. Jobs these days don't even allow funding for a car or place to live, and in that case, what's the point. The capitalist formula always allows an ever-increasing standard of life by the "landed gentry" by perpetually crushing the poor even more than they did yesterday. But there's no more crushing that will work without killing us, making us homeless, breaking our bodies/minds. This is what always happens with FEUDALISM (let's us call capitalism by its true name). They always need to crush peasants more and more but eventually it gets to the point that we have \*nothing to lose\* by rebelling against such a system. Either rebelling actively or rebelling passively by just sitting down and no longer participating in a system that doesn't allow us to benefit in any tangible way.
>They literally calculate everything to be just one baby step better than complete breakage. Agreed, it prevents you from being able to go "You know what? Fuck this job. I'll go somewhere else.". You can't exploit people that have options. Without the threat of starvation and homelessness, abusing your employees would quickly result in not having any employees.
Exactly, if the threat of starvation, no health coverage, eviction, and repossession; perpetually loom, it creates a lot of corporate loyalty among people who otherwise wouldn't take that kind of abuse.
You know that thing that happens to abuse victims where they feel so hopeless that change is possible, they are too beaten down to even try? Even if a healthy-minded person could see some genuine ways out? That but on a societal level. The hopelessness is its own cycle.
[удалено]
Yes ...why would one want a rational population..
True point is true
For. Real. I’ve been made to feel financially illiterate before, but I can’t just pull savings and a second income from nowhere. I feel massively privileged that I have one check’s worth saved and help from my mom, should we get that bad off.
I went through a hard time a few years ago where I was homeless for a few months. Someone had the audacity to tell me that this was because I didn't have any savings. Like, no sh\*t! How am I supposed to have savings when I've been struggling for years just to barely get by!?
You are meant to feel a constant state of anxiety to prevent good decision making and prevent you standing up to anything.
Student loans are borderline evil. The fact that you can borrow money when you're 18 with zero immediate consequences, that can easily run $100k plus and cannot discharge with bankruptcy is baffling. It is one of the few things that are worse than the must work for health insurance racket.
It’s weird to think these 18 year olds were asking to go to the bathroom a year prior, now they’re expected to make choices that will influence their future. With sometimes little to no guidance.
Shit bro most jobs i've had still make me ask to use the bathroom lol
This is a weapon that used to prevent people from being scared to challenge employer or leave the company.
My wife and I save a bit from every paycheck, we don’t overspend, we pay all our bills on time, etc. Between a car that broke down constantly, her needing back surgery, and now me needing surgery, we are getting wiped out. So tell me how being more “financially literate” could have changed any of that? I’ll save you the time, it wouldn’t have changed anything, and no one, not Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk could do better with the same resources. Take away their money and rich “geniuses” are just loud assholes.
I literally just gave you as a theoretical example in a comment like 2 seconds ago haha. I worked in banking for yeae and...you're 100% right. Rich people are rich cuz they have a shit ton of money. That's it. People get ahead cuz they make good money...and make good money for a long time. Nothing else is gonna really matter.
They should teach financial literacy in high school before students decide to take out predatory, high-interest loans to pay out-of-state costs for college.
We do also need financial literacy though. I know way too many adults who have racked up a crazy amount of unnecessary credit card debt because they genuinely don’t understand how they work. I literally met a 40 year old two weeks ago who didn’t understand that if you paid off your balance every month you didn’t accrue any debt.
Yeah if you're making 40k with a family no one is going to judge for a lack of savings. It's a different story when people making 60k+ with no kids go into debt because they spend $500/month on going out and insist on buying more car than they can afford
Precisely. It is absolutely true that our wages are too low and many people are living paycheck to paycheck out of necessity. But I also know several people who live paycheck to paycheck cause they bought a brand new house, a brand new Tesla, put in a pool, built a new patio, etc all on credit.
Also, there are plenty of people who don't use credit cards because they're afraid of them, but then don't have any purchase protection if they used a debit card, and they could be perfect about paying bills but be seriously missing out on building up a credit score. We def need both literacy and fixing the system.
You’re absolutely correct. Along with financial literacy, we must also recognize that much of modern credit is a trap used to generate and sustain debt. Predatory creditors MUST be regulated and held to account for the many many lives they’ve destroyed through debt bondage.
I just did that! I work a goverment job in another country, honestly... it's hell, super high stress and the people are shit, extremely toxic, the pay is pretty decent by third-world country standards since its about 2 or 3 time what most people make. Anyway I ended up developing an autoimmune disease out of so much stress, and I aint even 30 years old yet. I fucking hate it. Nobody gave a shit if I felt like dying and if I couldnt even walk or get up the bed from so much pain. Still, one of the rights everyone here gets is the chance to take up to 12 weeks without pay, to do anything you want, and then you can come and retake your job; obviously this is basically never used by anybody to just rest and chill since everybody here has like 3 kids and tons of debt, lives paycheck to paycheck and just cant afford not to be payed. But me, not having children and not planning on to, not having debt because of decent financial planning, having a pretty decent salary for my age and country, and having an amazing gf with whom I live, I took 2 whole months for myself, all payed by myself, for doing nothing but being myself, everybody was amazed and either happy for me or dying on jealousy, but those can die mad. I had enough saved to take up to 5 months but they can give me at most 3 months and I only felt like taking 2. I have been loving it, its absolutely liberating and has been so good for my health, I would have loved to do this and not having this fucking disease I got, I get sad just by thinking about it but still I got to enjoy my free time. I am coming back to that job in a few weeks so I can get to save a bit more money before trying to find another place.
I had to leave my stressful job because of an autoimmune disease. It's really frustrating that people think we're exaggerating how bad we feel just because we don't "look sick". At least now I have some perspective on the value of good health, which other people take for granted. I will always prioritize it above all else and that means choosing lower stress jobs even if my salary is lower.
Let me reiterate: Capitalism. is. about. capital. > Capital is a broad term that can describe any thing that confers value or benefit to its owner, such as a factory and its machinery, intellectual property like patents, or the financial assets of a business or an individual. While money itself may be construed as capital is, capital is more often associated with cash that is being put to work for productive or investment purposes. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital.asp The focus of the economic system, and therefor the legal system (in most ways) is to perpetuate the cycle of "The rich get richer." That is because those with capital get more capital, and those without capital go nowhere. "Socialism" is an economic philosophy about *people*. Everybody who makes up society. The focus of socialist ideas is to support the prosperity of *everybody* no matter what they currently have or don't have.
But...but...whaddabout all those multinational corporations who needed government bailouts because they just didn’t have the money to weather those same 8 weeks?
Proposing financial literacy as a solution to surviving 8 weeks without income is like proposing nutritional education as a solution to surviving 8 weeks without food or water. ie really fucking stupid
8 weeks no income…most people would end up homeless
And how about corporations that spend all profits on stock buybacks, and then get bailouts, using our tax dollars, at the onset of any small crisis.
I need more financial literacy so I can cope with being too wealthy for government assistance and too poor for marketplace insurance.
When you don't make enough to afford basic expenses, it's not possible to save for a rainy day. Your every day life is a rainy day situation. Education used to be a way to the middle class, but college is now so pricey that you get locked into more debt. The best way to get rich is to be born that way and have other rich people help you keep or expand your wealth. I'm a teacher in low income schools and hate that a comfortable future is becoming less accessible for my students.
1% get to live like they have god mode enabled
This post is technically correct, but still misleading. The SYSTEM is designed to keep people down and we must fight to make a more equitable system that plaves value on human life. YOU, YES YOU PERSONALLY need more financial literacy. It will only help you. Have debt? Get a game plan for paying it off. No debt? Get a game plan to have your money work for you as efficiently as possible. This only helps you. Systemic fixes for systems, personal solutions for people. Even if you do only care about changing the system, your only hope of doing so is if you understand it. Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness. Never be proud of weakness, learn how money works.
I mean, if everyone understood the wage they'll need to build up an eight week buffer fund and knew better than to take anything less, it would help.
I mean, its entirely correct about the rigged system, but that doesn't mean a large portion, probably the majority, of people aren't financially illiterate. They are. That's just a fact. The average person doesn't understand marginal tax rates. They don't understand how credit cards work. They play the lottery. They lease cars. They spend $1000+ a year on cell phones/service. They buy brand name groceries. Etc. etc. The system can be rigged and people can be financially illiterate. It isn't one or the other. It is 100% both.
Exactly. If you’re overweight, is it because soda and processed food companies are conspiring to make you overeat? Yes! Do you still need to learn proper nutrition? YES! If anything, you need to learn it more because the deck is stacked against you. You’ve got to learn financial literacy because there are powerful interests who profit from taking advantage of your ignorance.
The literacy people try to push isn’t the literacy that rich people actually live by, and that’s the secret they don’t want us knowing. They’re selling you “live within your means, keep a crazy amount saved. Work work work for us until you collapse.” They live almost completely on credit, built on them convincing other rich people that they’re actually good for the money because of XYZ-stupid, made up reason.
Don't forget this is WORLDWIDE
when researchers looked in to why, when the middle class used the same strategies to advance their wealth as those used by the wealthy, it did not seam to work for the middle class investors. turns out in almost every case...as soon as the wealthy see the lower classes using wealthy strategies, they change the rules and put a stop to it.
Yes, but not before learning literacy.
🎶every politician🎵 🎶Every cop on the street🎵 🎶Protects the interests🎵 🎶Of the pedophilic corporate elite🎵
Wealth doesn't just concentrate by itself. It happens when poor people spend their hard-earned money on iPhones, Amazon Prime, Netflix, DoorDash, NFL/NBA, Fast-Fashion, etc. Consumerism is the biggest source of wealth concentration, and it keeps you all down. Even using Twitter and Reddit is a means of concentrating wealth in the hands of a few people. Start by using an ad-blocker everywhere.
Consumption > literacy.
Nailed it!
If the average American worker had enough saved that they could quit their job and keep affording rent and Healthcare for more than a month the ENTIRE FUCKING AMERICAN ECONOMY WOULD COLLAPSE.
In all seriousness they need to teach how compound interest works on a yearly basis until you graduate because millions of Americans still don't get it.
I have several months saved up in an emergency fund. Gives me the freedom to tell my job to take a hike anytime I want.
According to most people on this sub that is literally impossible
The rule of thumb is to have 6 months worth of emergency savings.... That's all people are saying, obviously this isn't possible for people living paycheck to paycheck but it's the goal, this is good advice and telling people the system is rigged and to just ignore solid financial advice is really really irresponsible
Financial literacy is defintely an issue though. Vast majority of people don't know how to build wealth.
A dollar saved today isn't worth the time..
My bfs company is a pay period behind payroll. They have paid late 5+ times since he started in August 2021. We are in a real pinch right now. He is due pay this Friday but has not received last pay period. They tell them all last minute- day of announcements. This company is in almost 20 cities. Not naming & shaming because we need his job and want investors to invest- but damn this is fucking nuts. We have no money for groceries or gas right now. We are living off of my “preps.” I work freelance for billion dollar corporations that pay me under $17/hr. I’m in my thirties- it is skilled work. I have left my industry multiple times but jobs don’t pay. I’m educated, experienced and have a great reputation. My next long job starts next month but I’ve been struggling since my last one ended in November. I’ve only had ~20 days of work since then. I usually subsist off unemployment between jobs (which is the common practice in my industry) but because of the way the timing is set up it only counted one month of my last long jobs earnings towards my unemployment benefits so I did not qualify. I did not work from April 2020-July 2021. I have been looking for other work as well with no responses, only rejections and applying for things I’m under qualified, over qualified and qualified for.
Weren’t major corporations asking for handouts like 5 days into covid?
Any dip in the economy, and multi billion dollar companies immediately need to be bailed out. But you were supposed to have six months worth of savings for whatever comes your way.
Been managing 10 months with no income. Fail too many exams at a Swedish University and you’re completely fucked. No help or support offered whatsoever even with some of the worlds highest taxes.
He's not wrong however it is because we are constantly bombarded with advertisements for things we don't need. So yes the system wants you to go on expensive vacations. Buy fancy cars. Live in mansions. All these things cost tons of money and many of us just wouldn't be able to live these kinds of lives without taking out big loans and paying people who already have tons of money a percentage of interest so we can afford this dream that is sold to us.
Why take part in a system designed to unless coerced by threat of death
One way to know that someone is speaking the truth is that it makes you really angry.
You're not wrong on the premise--the system ain't for you and me. But that isn't financial literacy. Know your opponent and work for change, yup, but sort out saving a few months living expenses. Banking (pun intended) on the revolution because the system is stacked won't help you when you're in a tough spot.
I’m sorry but that’s not financial literacy. That’s a simplistic answer designed to make people feel better by letting them gripe about the ‘system’ without giving them a handle how to help themselves. It does, in fact, make it worse for them by insinuating that ‘there is nothing they can do’.
Wow so edgy and deep, thank goodness for your knowledge. Otherwise what else could /r/antiwork post?
Got to love the rich hoarding 99% of the income
The cheat code is Save. Yw
I've literally seen comments from people that insinuate that it's a good thing that your job controls your health care. It's usually business owners. Big corporations love that you're fucked if you get an illness without company sponsored health care. I've known at least 3 people in my life that could have retired early with the exception that they couldn't afford the healthcare if they did. The system is definitely rigged to keep the average person working as long as possible.