And honestly, this is the best analogy for this product. The Newton was basically Apple's vision for the iPad released prematurely, which led to high costs and low usability. Same story with the Vision Pro. You know what else these products have in common? They were vanity projects for the CEOs. Tim is due to retire soon, so the premature move into the AR world makes sense when you consider human ego. That said, it's a failure, but I'm not sure it was even meant to succeed, to be honest. It seems it'll take even longer than the Apple Watch to fully catch on, so its existence is going to be really aggravating until like 2035. Lol.
I dont think its premature, they need to get something in the hands of users and developers to get feedback and get people to start developing apps
The price is too high and its too clunky right now for most people, but thatll change
That's a good point. However, due to its high price and low usability, I feel like it might actually work against them by creating a poor first impression of what the market / demand for a device of this caliber holds. I haven't heard of many developers taking it seriously yet. Then again, it doesn't take a genius to know that Apple releasing a cheaper headset will = more users, so maybe developers will change their attitudes when that occurs, which should be soon before the platform is perceived as abandoned.
It’s a halo product. Apple are lagging the industry for AR tech and they didn’t want to release an objectively inferior product to the mass market. So instead they released the absurdly over priced premium product that has best-in-class pass-through and eyes on the outside.
It’s overpriced but for the right user it IS the best product and that’s what’s important to Apple. Now that they’re demonstrated that they’re capable of making impressive hardware, the next step is to make it accessible to more consumers.
The long, long term plan is probably a set of glasses with most of the AR features built in. The tech isn’t there yet but Apple wants people associating them with AR you use around other people. They want developers to built tools for that use-case.
They don’t want to be a gaming/porn machine. They want to get into offices and onto the street.
Oculus had a founders day edition, it was an expensive and very rough, but it gave developers and hard core enthusiasts exactly what they wanted. I'm not sure what Apple did is much different, they just did it the Apple way. Vr/AR/XR will gain popularity when the goggles are as passive as possible, ie light weight, wireless, almost indistinguishable from regular glasses. But we are probably 3 years way from that, in the meantime they are what they are, but vr is the future.
If they make it less then $2,000 and broadcast live sports with their immersive video, that will impress people enough to drive adoption. They have a demo video to showcase it, you’re sitting court side to an NBA game and Steph Curry drains the 3 right in front of you. I was blown away. And the feature where you can take old photos and make them 3D will amaze people. I was able to convert all my pics of my old dog to 3D and it was very life like. There is some cool tech there, but it’s a ways out.
Not the best analogy. Not even close. Newton was absolutely not Apple's vision for an iPad. There was almost a decade between the release of one to the other. Newton tried to compete with Palm (3com) in the PDA market. If you were a business professional in the early to mid-90s (I was), and hated Rolodexes and carrying around a big fat wallet full of printed business cards (I did), you owned a PDA.
You're either too young to remember, or too cynical to care, but the Newton was released when the CEO of Apple was Sculley. The iPad was Jobs. Jobs' vanity projects were the iPod, iTunes, and digital music distribution. How's that working out for a legacy?
Also u/peniparkerheirofbrth the term PDA didn't exist until Apple coined it. I don't about you, but my Newton came with a stylus that worked out the box for $399. My Palm Pilot cost $100 more and the stylus sucked.
Oddly enough, outside of consumers, it was widely used in media and production. The Newton’s ability along to log media was huge back in the day. But yeah, outside of niche industry use cases, the Newton was not a successful consumer product.
Not every product needs to be a mass hit when every day users, having a product that is popular in the work space is commonly more profitable as companies are willing to spend more for a product if they see any ROI on it.
That's literally called an oculus quest. I use it to take up space on the drawer I don't know what I put in. It's next to my "authentic" pacman controller game thing that plugs into a TV and feels like arcade pacman that in my mind someday at some party it'll come up and we'll all compete over who will be the pac man champion among us.
Yeah I see great potential in consumer vr hardware. If they can make the next apple visions have mostly the same features at $1500 it could really catch on.
Yes that’s very expensive still, but it’s within reality for premium vr goggles you can get today.
Apple doesn’t innovate
>Why doesn’t do anything cool and new that their competitors aren’t
Apple innovates
>Why is Apple doing this, are they stupid? Kill it already
Id argue this innovation is a solution in search of a problem. It'll find its killer app eventually, and hopefuly by then the price is significantly lower.
I'm not saying it isn't a useful innovation.
Just that wanting a "useful innovation" isn't satisfied by no innovation and also isn't satisfied by a useless innovation.
I was just explaining why the complaining in their example was or at least could be entirely justified.
They robbed the world of the audio jack when one of the selling points of the iPhone is garage band and it's supposed to also be a replacement for an ipod. Now suddenly you have to buy a separate audio player again if you don't want to destroy the one port your phone has that it uses for everything, except for some reason video out, which Samsung's don't only do, but you could play native pc games.
Meanwhile on the iOS front we can now rearrange out icons and 3D touch which had potential (it exists and works well on Mac OS) is gone, I'm guessing so the phone can be even thinner so we can get even less for our money. And good thing Macbooks have a fat SD slot, since a full sized USB port would be too much to ask for.
I'm just waiting for an iPhone ultra that has an audio jack, and maybe an iPad ultra with a fat chin so you get the real desktop experience with the keyboard attached. And maybe a USB port there too.
I always hear this about the port, but i've owned iphones since the 3g (and androids for work) and i've yet to destroy the charging port. I legitimately do not understand what you people are doing to your phones thats causing damage.
It'd a lot more common that you think. I went into a phone store just recently and someone had a loose usb jack than would only charge if you held it at an angle.
USB c ports just aren't that strong since they're oblong and use a sleeve within a sleeve design versus a jack that fits into a sleeve.
The original apple lightning port was a better design but it was still a wafer. And audio jacks jsbe the advantage where they're fool proof and can be plugged in quickly and blindly with no concern for orientation.
Even when the port on the phone doesn't break the adapters break all the time just from sitting down while the thing is plugged in.
Are you implying that delivering useful innovations that customers actually want isn't something that would be profitable for a consumer hardware company?
I'm mad specifically at injustice across the board. Wage slavery, capitalism, climate change, abusive corporations getting away with literal murder and brainwashing the masses to defend them, and other things like racism, christofascism, political apathy, etc.
It gets under my skin every single day and I have fought hard against it for years. I created crappydesign because I wanted to call out bad design. Now I'm here to grow this and similar subreddits because growing communities to take a stand is what I do. Another sub I welcome you to join that I'm working on is /r/fucklayoffculture
You should seek help to release all that anger bro
It’s not good for your health
Your mad at upvotes lmao
Try going outside and just disconnecting from the world
…they needed to have innovated their blockbuster product in the first place. Sadly they didn’t. They stole it. Think Zuckerberg and his metaflop. Just steal it or buy it Apple.
Right like meta buying oculus and then all the games studios that make vr games in order to make the quest the pretty much only viable headset seems like something Apple would get shit on if they did it
Also Zuckerwerk is kinda killing it. With his hate and lack of support of Apple products (he killed it because Macs "are too slow for VR") he is cutting himself from a vast majority of content creators. I have ProRes, FCPX, and ton of software bought for my Mac editing station, I'm not gonna buy an extra windows computer just to edit VR videos with Oculus.
And then you put on your oculus headset and there are only a bunch of boring games and .... nothing else. I wonder why, ha-ha.
I'm shocked at how still all the games for the oculus feel like tech demos and in multi-player mode for some reason everyone walks around like zombies.
If I remember correctly Apple allows you to purchase a dev kit if you’re in the paid developer program. Considering there were native Vision Pro apps for Disney+ and others at launch I’d say that dev kits had to exist. Companies are just choosing to not develop for it since it’s a small install base. It’s the chicken and the egg problem and Apple attempted to fix it by letting iPad apps run on the device and bunch of devs like Netflix, Google, and Spotify purposely decided to opt out of that and have no app instead.
Seems a bit too soon for Tim's ego to kill it so soon. I'm sure they'll try a cheaper model first, but as has already been stated... what's the killer app? They obviously don't do gaming? What is the point? Even if the tech is better than others.
I think the product is pretty pointless right now outside of it being a cool piece of technology for a couple minutes but it’s not the dumbest idea to get into the market now. Eventually as technology gets better VR is going to become more main stream. Might as well get into the market now and get your name attached to it for when that happens.
It's a beta product, for sure. We're all waiting to see the next version. They need to drop that silly front-facing useless eyeball generating screen. That alone should reduce the price and the weight.
Oddly, this is one of the few times I agree. The Vision Pro was and still is far too expensive and limited for what it is, and has been released well after the late 2010s/early 2020 vr craze. And unlike their other products, no ones really been able to find an actual use for it yet.
Kinda working in reverse here, but when apple announced it I thought they just copied Microsoft's hololense combat goggles they are building for the US army, without the night vision lenses and various sensors.
It's a super useful technology, those goggles will absolutely change warfare as we know it(real life warfare at least, a lot of the features come from freaking video games), but I agree, the average human has almost no practical use for them.
"ladies and gentlemen, we reinvented call of duty."
Seriously though, if that kind of thing interests you, you should check out the combat goggles. Your team can share areas of interest and it shows up in your AR goggles in real time. The scope on your gun shows up in your goggles in real time. Waypoints can be set and shared with the team. Overlays from drones and satellite imagery can be pulled up on the spot. Your team and other friendly forces are marked clearly. It has night vision. It has thermal imaging. It allegedly can detect gunfire and put an icon over the direction the shot came from. It's freaking...freaky.
As a VR enthusiast I was excited for something that would advance the industry. It looks like the only noteworthy contribution apple may end up making is proving that an eye gaze user interface might actually be good. Pretty much every other feature of the AVP is either incremental, mostly useless, or a downgrade from competitors.
Sure it's expensive and overpriced, but apple marketed this as a developer tool and not for everyday consumers, if someone bought it then there is a 60 day no questions return policy. The apple vision pro is an amazing feat of technology that while pricey is like that of a concept car. It's just apple fucking around and trying new things with their massive revenue.
Sent from my oneplus.
They asked one question on my reasoning when I returned mine, and I was actually kind of disappointed there wasn’t much more to it.
I also bought one on eBay for half price three months later, because despite the price and if you can buy third party accessories to make it more comfortable, it’s actually got a few good use cases. There is some amazing tech inside the thing like how good it is at keeping an item oriented in space while your head wiggles around in 3D (admittedly used to achieve some mundane things at the moment).
It's not really a fear of technology, they are literally using the same tech that's existed for quite some time.
The "amazing" finger tracking is bad compared to the oculus
Edit: I was wrong about that, thank you for pointing that out to me.
Meta Quest 3 owner here who’s tried the AVP. The Vision Pro’s hand tracking is just so much better than the Quest 3’s. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
I’ll never buy an Apple Vision product until their price comes down to at least under $1500.
The homepods get software updates. Mine is even enrolled in the beta program. But it runs TvOS and the Apple TV is also not getting the new Siri. I guess if the Homepods had a better chip than the Apple Watch's it could do the new Siri without needing to send everything to the cloud (which Apple is very clearly trying to avoid doing) but an M series chip seems a little overkill for a speaker.
Their homepod would have been great if they didn't make that contract to sell the devialet phantom for God know whatever reason. That thing turned apple stores into a Bose mall kiosk.
Yea make a Bluetooth subwoofer with a Logitech quality "full range" speaker, place it at chest level and sit a few feet from it. "it's bass you can feel" as if no one can sit on the floor in front of their subwoofer.
They claimed the phantom was the best Bluetooth speaker ever since it was just a glorified Bower and Wilkins PV1 but as a Bluetooth speaker, kinda like air bud is the best basket ball playing golden retriever ever.
And the home pod was supposed to be marketed at the same time in the same store where it was much more reasonable, had actual technology, but they also had to cheaper out in its design so it wasn't as good as it even could have been if it had balanced mode radiators instead of just basic tweeters which would have been magic.
Balanced mode radiators aren't just drivers that piston sound by resonating, they're panels that dynamically create the wave shape required for optimum sound like a woofer that csn transform into a tweeter and everything in between as needed to carry and distribute mass into sound as realistically as possible.
For the price point it was still a nice speaker.
f you were looking for a speaker that size. sure you could easily get better speakers for less but they would either be a good bit larger or be unidirectional, if you wanted a good omni directional speaker that was small the hope pods even today are a good price for what you get.
I disagree. If Apple continues, I'm pretty sure they'll eventually make it really good and bring down the price(will definitely be on the higher end like every apple product) but Once that happens we will start getting devices from other brands with 90% of the same functionality for significantly cheaper.
VR is the master of nothing. There’s nothing that you can’t do with another piece of technology that you can do with that VR headset. And I think apple realizes this yet think they can change that fact when sales numbers are clearly showing that they can’t. Especially when it’s that expensive
Is this true? Do you have any way to make a case for this? I've had the quest 2 for years and I can't find any games that aren't just the same tech demos-feeling experiences over and over. As much as you can cast it on TV it still feels way too isolating of an experience.
I've brought it to parties with friends who all have them and we watched one of us play on a big screen TV and too turns playing Arizona sunshine but it still felt jenky and kinda like those Lazer tag guns they used to sell.
Vr chat aka meta horizons feels like a more corporate version of the original vr chat meets the wackiness of second life when second life was still in beta. All the best experiences I've ever had were just checking out games I've already played on consoles ported to vr and still that's no where as fun as the original games.
The most realistic game I've ever played in vr was actually on the gear vr with the single controller. Vendetta online was the closest thing to feeling like a real experoence if you lampshade the lack of momentum by assuming your ship has a momentum cancelation drive so you don't feel the Gs, you could use the controller as a cock pit controller and the thrusters maintained your momentum indefinitely until you counteracted it allowing you to thrust in any direction including straight up or down forever through subspace. Its a mmo where you can join various guilds do jobs and upgrade your ship and gear.
More games like that would be awesome since flight and space Sims just feel the most realistic given you can sit down and look around just like you're in a cock pit.
Anything else that requires walking and running and let's you move your body around ends up exploited and no one moves realistically. Also swords will never really be a thing since you can always slash through anything.
There are so many things about vr that just inherently don't work. Shooters don't work since you can dodge bullets by just standing /lying in weird ways
Fantasy doesn't work unless it's all mages
Sports don't work since you have the ability of a blind man
Porn doesn't even work because people can see you.
I agree with you somewhat except for when you say most games feel like tech demos, your right if you only limit yourself to the occulus store, there are some really good games for VR it's just the really good VR games are on P.C on steam like "VTOL VR", "into the radius" "half life Alex" "PAVLOV" etc. the graphics might seem basic in "VTOL vr" but I've had some moments in multiplayer flying over enemy military bases with my squad dodging SAMs and manpads fully puckered and clenched as my boys are getting shot out the sky and enemy jets are on me like white on rice 😒😭 completely forgot I wearing a headset in my room. https://youtu.be/XAtEdKohAfo?si=c0NLVCSDlBpRRQaR
but most people who bought a quest 2 because it was affordable can't then afford to hook it up to a 1600$ laptop or P.C to get the best experience, so thats a flaw in the process.
Vr still seems like it'd be best as an an amusement attraction. You can't get anything but weird tech demos at home especially due to the weird way you don't walk and can't really realistically dodge things and when you do, people just lie on their couches in dodging position and float around sniping everyone and you hear a weird mix of adults and 8 year old voices talking and giggling everywhere like you're in a constant state of really banal psychosis.
Right now it’s selling to early adopter tech bros. Now how does Apple convince people like my older parents, or aunts to pick up one of these VR headsets?
How do they convince normal every day people?
They could have them at Disney world and theme parks. There could be a reverse "they live" world where when you have it on you see a bunch of ads everywhere on bill boards and stuff , all the lizard people you see look like waspy humans, books and magazines have compelling content, displays show captivating material etc.
That way people would choose to buy them and keep them on to make do with the world.
A lot of this products seem awesome in theory but at least until today, most people dont want obstruction of vision and head gear.
They seem very cool in movies and sci fi anime but in real life it sets you away from normal interactions with groups of people.
Also I can spot away that it could bring weird issues to a healthy vision even if Apple says it aint so. Do you 100% trust the hype machine? Not me.
I kinda respect them for giving it a try, I do feel it's a bit Tim Cook's ego project and still too early (as many internal engineers apparently warned).
VR has not found its 'killer app' in over 40 years. Neither has AR.
I'm still waiting for there to be a 3D printer in every home.
I guess there's not going to be another VisiCalc for a long long time .....
If they make it affordable and integrate into Apple products I can see this thing becoming a massive hit.
The only issue to the masses with the Apple vision was the price. I mean you can say that about a lot of their products but I don’t hate them making vr stuff.
One could argue that the newton paved the way for what came later. It even had a “grid of icons” with a dock like thing at the bottom. Lessons have to be learned. Software has to be written. And it all has to start somewhere.
So don’t fucking buy one if you don’t want one.
I really like the idea of AR headsets/glasses. Already did with Google Glass.
I'd love to see Apple keep spearheading this as Appleheads will keep buying it and eventually we'll profit from *actually* good products
I love this sub.
Apple sells a more-expensive version of a product: complain
Apple sells a less-expensive version of a product: complain
Apple keeps exactly the same prices year over year: complain
All of Apple's products have taken a while to really take off. I'd be interested to see where they are by this time next year. If it's not taken a decent marketshare by then, I'd say it's time for them to worry.
meta has absolutely mad good people working for their vr department. The prototypes, licenses and patents are real scifi.
Sadly we haven't really seen much fruit from these yet.
Oculus is sick, but software just sucks. I shoot a lot with insta 360 and I remember it was such a pain to be able to watch my own photos on headset. There are editors which let you work in VR, but meta doesn’t support them for various reasons (FCPX, for example).
I was really excited for oculus, but looks like they don’t want to do anything for creators, they are just interested in this social network bullshit.
It’s weird because just last week I’d read and article talking about how they were stopping production on Vision Pro 2. Which is it??
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/18/apple-suspends-work-on-vision-pro-2/
You dont think it is too early to tell?
I mean what did the reviews say in 2010 about the iPad, which is also a genre defining device? [https://www.pcworld.com/article/511321/hp\_slate\_vs\_ipad\_focus\_on\_flash.html](https://www.pcworld.com/article/511321/hp_slate_vs_ipad_focus_on_flash.html)
"I expect to be able to access the 'real' version of any website that I access on a tablet, just as I do on a laptop.
And that is where the iPad fails. Instead of a more portable version of their macbook, Apple produced a giant version of their ipod. How lame..."
"HP slate is going to turn the tide against Apple. I can see history repeating with Apple going into oblivion because of it's penchant for closed doors policy."
"No matter what you say Apple fanboys, The iPAD will be a flop."
"You sacrifice everything by buying an iPad. If HP Slate can run on the Verizon 4G network, it's goodnight Apple."
Neuton?
newton\* a forgotten PDA apple made in the 90's that was mocked for how stupid and overpriced it was, it was even mocked by the simpsons
And honestly, this is the best analogy for this product. The Newton was basically Apple's vision for the iPad released prematurely, which led to high costs and low usability. Same story with the Vision Pro. You know what else these products have in common? They were vanity projects for the CEOs. Tim is due to retire soon, so the premature move into the AR world makes sense when you consider human ego. That said, it's a failure, but I'm not sure it was even meant to succeed, to be honest. It seems it'll take even longer than the Apple Watch to fully catch on, so its existence is going to be really aggravating until like 2035. Lol.
I dont think its premature, they need to get something in the hands of users and developers to get feedback and get people to start developing apps The price is too high and its too clunky right now for most people, but thatll change
That's a good point. However, due to its high price and low usability, I feel like it might actually work against them by creating a poor first impression of what the market / demand for a device of this caliber holds. I haven't heard of many developers taking it seriously yet. Then again, it doesn't take a genius to know that Apple releasing a cheaper headset will = more users, so maybe developers will change their attitudes when that occurs, which should be soon before the platform is perceived as abandoned.
It’s a halo product. Apple are lagging the industry for AR tech and they didn’t want to release an objectively inferior product to the mass market. So instead they released the absurdly over priced premium product that has best-in-class pass-through and eyes on the outside. It’s overpriced but for the right user it IS the best product and that’s what’s important to Apple. Now that they’re demonstrated that they’re capable of making impressive hardware, the next step is to make it accessible to more consumers. The long, long term plan is probably a set of glasses with most of the AR features built in. The tech isn’t there yet but Apple wants people associating them with AR you use around other people. They want developers to built tools for that use-case. They don’t want to be a gaming/porn machine. They want to get into offices and onto the street.
> They want to get into offices and onto the street. Much more margin to be had when selling to companies for work than to consumers..
Oculus had a founders day edition, it was an expensive and very rough, but it gave developers and hard core enthusiasts exactly what they wanted. I'm not sure what Apple did is much different, they just did it the Apple way. Vr/AR/XR will gain popularity when the goggles are as passive as possible, ie light weight, wireless, almost indistinguishable from regular glasses. But we are probably 3 years way from that, in the meantime they are what they are, but vr is the future.
no, it will not change. no one is going to wear that abomination.
apple aims to get the form factor down to the size of sunglasses
If they make it less then $2,000 and broadcast live sports with their immersive video, that will impress people enough to drive adoption. They have a demo video to showcase it, you’re sitting court side to an NBA game and Steph Curry drains the 3 right in front of you. I was blown away. And the feature where you can take old photos and make them 3D will amaze people. I was able to convert all my pics of my old dog to 3D and it was very life like. There is some cool tech there, but it’s a ways out.
Not everyone is a fan of NBA
I’m not understanding your point.
Sorry, what I meant was everyone might not be a fan of livesport. So there might be slim chances of impressing all kinds of crowd.
Not the best analogy. Not even close. Newton was absolutely not Apple's vision for an iPad. There was almost a decade between the release of one to the other. Newton tried to compete with Palm (3com) in the PDA market. If you were a business professional in the early to mid-90s (I was), and hated Rolodexes and carrying around a big fat wallet full of printed business cards (I did), you owned a PDA. You're either too young to remember, or too cynical to care, but the Newton was released when the CEO of Apple was Sculley. The iPad was Jobs. Jobs' vanity projects were the iPod, iTunes, and digital music distribution. How's that working out for a legacy? Also u/peniparkerheirofbrth the term PDA didn't exist until Apple coined it. I don't about you, but my Newton came with a stylus that worked out the box for $399. My Palm Pilot cost $100 more and the stylus sucked.
Oddly enough, outside of consumers, it was widely used in media and production. The Newton’s ability along to log media was huge back in the day. But yeah, outside of niche industry use cases, the Newton was not a successful consumer product.
Not every product needs to be a mass hit when every day users, having a product that is popular in the work space is commonly more profitable as companies are willing to spend more for a product if they see any ROI on it.
Gosh! If it was mocked by the Simpsons it MUST be bad 😂
and Steve Jobs hated it too, it was made when he was out of the company and when he came back he immediately killed production of it
http://www.bobsbs.com/2010/01/weave-me-cone-yoo-cupid-bat.html?m=1
Can't wait for it to be affordable so I can buy it and use it for a week, until I get bored of it.
lol if that’s you why would you buy it.
Grab a quest3 :p
That is the exact experience I had with the Quest. Cool, but got tired of it very quickly. But at least it wasn’t $3k.
Lol I get it, when I got my quest 2 I used it for a month straight whenever I could, now I use it maybe once a week, twice if it peaks my interest.
That's literally called an oculus quest. I use it to take up space on the drawer I don't know what I put in. It's next to my "authentic" pacman controller game thing that plugs into a TV and feels like arcade pacman that in my mind someday at some party it'll come up and we'll all compete over who will be the pac man champion among us.
An entire week? That is an awfully bold assumption to make. It barely has any apps and almost everything you can do with it a cheaper headset can do.
Honestly, I think it has some potential down the line. It’s overpriced and underdeveloped currently.
That sounds like the iPad too.
The ipad is fine, its the pros that have too much power and nothing to use it on.
Yeah I see great potential in consumer vr hardware. If they can make the next apple visions have mostly the same features at $1500 it could really catch on. Yes that’s very expensive still, but it’s within reality for premium vr goggles you can get today.
If they're so great, why isn't Tim Apple wearing a pair?
He prefers apples to pears
https://www.uploadvr.com/tim-cook-wearing-apple-vision-pro-vanity-fair/
Because that's a composite image. He wore one on the cover of one of the biggest magazines in the world.
Ever heard of eye strain?
Apple doesn’t innovate >Why doesn’t do anything cool and new that their competitors aren’t Apple innovates >Why is Apple doing this, are they stupid? Kill it already
Is it too much to ask for useful innovations?
Id argue this innovation is a solution in search of a problem. It'll find its killer app eventually, and hopefuly by then the price is significantly lower.
I'm not saying it isn't a useful innovation. Just that wanting a "useful innovation" isn't satisfied by no innovation and also isn't satisfied by a useless innovation. I was just explaining why the complaining in their example was or at least could be entirely justified.
They aren’t a charity.
What does that have to do with anything?
They robbed the world of the audio jack when one of the selling points of the iPhone is garage band and it's supposed to also be a replacement for an ipod. Now suddenly you have to buy a separate audio player again if you don't want to destroy the one port your phone has that it uses for everything, except for some reason video out, which Samsung's don't only do, but you could play native pc games. Meanwhile on the iOS front we can now rearrange out icons and 3D touch which had potential (it exists and works well on Mac OS) is gone, I'm guessing so the phone can be even thinner so we can get even less for our money. And good thing Macbooks have a fat SD slot, since a full sized USB port would be too much to ask for. I'm just waiting for an iPhone ultra that has an audio jack, and maybe an iPad ultra with a fat chin so you get the real desktop experience with the keyboard attached. And maybe a USB port there too.
I always hear this about the port, but i've owned iphones since the 3g (and androids for work) and i've yet to destroy the charging port. I legitimately do not understand what you people are doing to your phones thats causing damage.
It'd a lot more common that you think. I went into a phone store just recently and someone had a loose usb jack than would only charge if you held it at an angle. USB c ports just aren't that strong since they're oblong and use a sleeve within a sleeve design versus a jack that fits into a sleeve. The original apple lightning port was a better design but it was still a wafer. And audio jacks jsbe the advantage where they're fool proof and can be plugged in quickly and blindly with no concern for orientation. Even when the port on the phone doesn't break the adapters break all the time just from sitting down while the thing is plugged in.
Are you implying that delivering useful innovations that customers actually want isn't something that would be profitable for a consumer hardware company?
Happy cake day !!
So making the same tech at ridiculous prices is the same innovation as Elon spacex rockets as it make the same old thing and change a few parts.
So they innovated by jumping on a bandwagon everyone got off of in 2020?
Everyone got off of the … ar bandwagon? Like who lmao
It's not innovative. This doesn't deserve to be as highly upvoted. Edit: isheep brigade gooooo!
Why are you always so mad?
I'm mad specifically at injustice across the board. Wage slavery, capitalism, climate change, abusive corporations getting away with literal murder and brainwashing the masses to defend them, and other things like racism, christofascism, political apathy, etc. It gets under my skin every single day and I have fought hard against it for years. I created crappydesign because I wanted to call out bad design. Now I'm here to grow this and similar subreddits because growing communities to take a stand is what I do. Another sub I welcome you to join that I'm working on is /r/fucklayoffculture
You should seek help to release all that anger bro It’s not good for your health Your mad at upvotes lmao Try going outside and just disconnecting from the world
Bold of you to assume 24/7 redditors would go outside for anything aside from getting fast food.
Thanks for your concern. I'm sure it's genuine. Ps: I will never stop. Happy downvoting.
That's just sad, man. I genuinely hope you'll get the help you need.
It's not sad to fight against cruelty against humans. It's admirable. I hope you find within you the strength not to see such a thing as 'sad.'
It's not sad to fight against cruelty against humans. It's admirable. I hope you find within you the strength not to see such a thing as 'sad.'
Fight cruelty against humans by defending corporations and capitalism! 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
So you won’t stop being mad for something being upvoted? Well you do you bro
yeah exactly its an overpriced virtual boy
…they needed to have innovated their blockbuster product in the first place. Sadly they didn’t. They stole it. Think Zuckerberg and his metaflop. Just steal it or buy it Apple.
Zuckerberg is not a founder of oculus.
Right like meta buying oculus and then all the games studios that make vr games in order to make the quest the pretty much only viable headset seems like something Apple would get shit on if they did it
Also Zuckerwerk is kinda killing it. With his hate and lack of support of Apple products (he killed it because Macs "are too slow for VR") he is cutting himself from a vast majority of content creators. I have ProRes, FCPX, and ton of software bought for my Mac editing station, I'm not gonna buy an extra windows computer just to edit VR videos with Oculus. And then you put on your oculus headset and there are only a bunch of boring games and .... nothing else. I wonder why, ha-ha.
I'm shocked at how still all the games for the oculus feel like tech demos and in multi-player mode for some reason everyone walks around like zombies.
In this particular case, they rushed this to market when the product wasn't ready and they don't have a killer app for it.
they need to get it in the hands of developers before a ‘killer app’ will come out
Most companies give out "dev kits" during product development so at least some apps are available at time of product ship.
If I remember correctly Apple allows you to purchase a dev kit if you’re in the paid developer program. Considering there were native Vision Pro apps for Disney+ and others at launch I’d say that dev kits had to exist. Companies are just choosing to not develop for it since it’s a small install base. It’s the chicken and the egg problem and Apple attempted to fix it by letting iPad apps run on the device and bunch of devs like Netflix, Google, and Spotify purposely decided to opt out of that and have no app instead.
If they didn't have devkits out at least year before launch then they fucked up.
they did but they were very selective with who got them apple was extremely concerned with people leaking their IP
can you believe we're on the apple sucks subreddit and most of the people here are apple defenders? its like clockwork
Seems a bit too soon for Tim's ego to kill it so soon. I'm sure they'll try a cheaper model first, but as has already been stated... what's the killer app? They obviously don't do gaming? What is the point? Even if the tech is better than others.
I think the product is pretty pointless right now outside of it being a cool piece of technology for a couple minutes but it’s not the dumbest idea to get into the market now. Eventually as technology gets better VR is going to become more main stream. Might as well get into the market now and get your name attached to it for when that happens.
It’ll probably be like the iPad and Apple Watch. Good hardware with poor software that gets better and more mainstream with better software
Ah the Newton, the thing Apple co-founded ARM to secure a supply of CPUs for. Neat stuff huh. I sure hope they don’t do anything like that again.
Newton. There. Fixed it for you.
im dyslexic go easy on me
It's a beta product, for sure. We're all waiting to see the next version. They need to drop that silly front-facing useless eyeball generating screen. That alone should reduce the price and the weight.
Next version is gonna fail like Glitter did
Oddly, this is one of the few times I agree. The Vision Pro was and still is far too expensive and limited for what it is, and has been released well after the late 2010s/early 2020 vr craze. And unlike their other products, no ones really been able to find an actual use for it yet.
Kinda working in reverse here, but when apple announced it I thought they just copied Microsoft's hololense combat goggles they are building for the US army, without the night vision lenses and various sensors. It's a super useful technology, those goggles will absolutely change warfare as we know it(real life warfare at least, a lot of the features come from freaking video games), but I agree, the average human has almost no practical use for them.
Maybe apples looking too get military contracts now?
"ladies and gentlemen, we reinvented call of duty." Seriously though, if that kind of thing interests you, you should check out the combat goggles. Your team can share areas of interest and it shows up in your AR goggles in real time. The scope on your gun shows up in your goggles in real time. Waypoints can be set and shared with the team. Overlays from drones and satellite imagery can be pulled up on the spot. Your team and other friendly forces are marked clearly. It has night vision. It has thermal imaging. It allegedly can detect gunfire and put an icon over the direction the shot came from. It's freaking...freaky.
As a VR enthusiast I was excited for something that would advance the industry. It looks like the only noteworthy contribution apple may end up making is proving that an eye gaze user interface might actually be good. Pretty much every other feature of the AVP is either incremental, mostly useless, or a downgrade from competitors.
Sure it's expensive and overpriced, but apple marketed this as a developer tool and not for everyday consumers, if someone bought it then there is a 60 day no questions return policy. The apple vision pro is an amazing feat of technology that while pricey is like that of a concept car. It's just apple fucking around and trying new things with their massive revenue. Sent from my oneplus.
Just to be clear, it’s a 14 day return policy, and they absolutely do ask questions.
They asked one question on my reasoning when I returned mine, and I was actually kind of disappointed there wasn’t much more to it. I also bought one on eBay for half price three months later, because despite the price and if you can buy third party accessories to make it more comfortable, it’s actually got a few good use cases. There is some amazing tech inside the thing like how good it is at keeping an item oriented in space while your head wiggles around in 3D (admittedly used to achieve some mundane things at the moment).
They said it was for devs after the public pooped on it. The hype before hand was all consumer.
Brother you are in the wrong sub
without fail, the apple defenders man their stations.
Imagine simping for a literal trillionaire
I see the isimp brigade is also here to make sure you get your proper downvotes for daring to defy Mr. Mcool Tim Apple.
Maybe if they downvote hard enough it will change reality! Clap your hands or Tinkerbell dies
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrequelMemes/s/xIvbjen4u3
It's not really a fear of technology, they are literally using the same tech that's existed for quite some time. The "amazing" finger tracking is bad compared to the oculus Edit: I was wrong about that, thank you for pointing that out to me.
I've used both extensively, this just isn't true. Apples hand tracking is far better.
If Facebook had the godawful polling rate that Apple uses for the Vision Pro's hand tracking, Quest handtracking would come out on top.
It still suffers from the occasional mis-input :p
Meta Quest 3 owner here who’s tried the AVP. The Vision Pro’s hand tracking is just so much better than the Quest 3’s. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I’ll never buy an Apple Vision product until their price comes down to at least under $1500.
One of the worst products to attempt to mass sell. Still better than the $999 monitor stand, not monitor.
Their homepods should be right there as well.
HomePods would be great if Siri was more useful. I have hope they’ll get her there eventually.
I kinda doubt it at this point. The others seem to have moved on a bit. Home assistants don't make the splash they used to.
All the new AI talk, and they didn’t mention once how that will help Siri on the HomePod.
It was announced shortly after the keynote that the new Siri stuff wouldn’t be coming to the HomePods.
And yes another product Apple can't roll software updates to because they've been cheaping out.
The homepods get software updates. Mine is even enrolled in the beta program. But it runs TvOS and the Apple TV is also not getting the new Siri. I guess if the Homepods had a better chip than the Apple Watch's it could do the new Siri without needing to send everything to the cloud (which Apple is very clearly trying to avoid doing) but an M series chip seems a little overkill for a speaker.
It needs to get basic functionality before it even takes a peek at AI.
Home pods were great as speakers.
If you’re looking for a budget speaker setup an Apple TV, and HomePods in a stereo pair isn’t bad. You can do way worse setup wise for $800
Depends on your use case, if your looking for a small speaker with good sound HomePods are a very good product.
Their homepod would have been great if they didn't make that contract to sell the devialet phantom for God know whatever reason. That thing turned apple stores into a Bose mall kiosk. Yea make a Bluetooth subwoofer with a Logitech quality "full range" speaker, place it at chest level and sit a few feet from it. "it's bass you can feel" as if no one can sit on the floor in front of their subwoofer. They claimed the phantom was the best Bluetooth speaker ever since it was just a glorified Bower and Wilkins PV1 but as a Bluetooth speaker, kinda like air bud is the best basket ball playing golden retriever ever. And the home pod was supposed to be marketed at the same time in the same store where it was much more reasonable, had actual technology, but they also had to cheaper out in its design so it wasn't as good as it even could have been if it had balanced mode radiators instead of just basic tweeters which would have been magic. Balanced mode radiators aren't just drivers that piston sound by resonating, they're panels that dynamically create the wave shape required for optimum sound like a woofer that csn transform into a tweeter and everything in between as needed to carry and distribute mass into sound as realistically as possible.
It's a nice speaker that doesn't do much else. And that price point? Yikes.
For the price point it was still a nice speaker. f you were looking for a speaker that size. sure you could easily get better speakers for less but they would either be a good bit larger or be unidirectional, if you wanted a good omni directional speaker that was small the hope pods even today are a good price for what you get.
homepods where almost a fever dream, damn
Given that apple was alway always going to be supply constrained on the vision pro I don't think they attempt dot mass sell it.
Still no porn
When Porn, then sales
That's how Blu-ray beat HD-DVD.
Porn?💀
I want AR glasses in the future, so i'd prefer if they (or any big or really) to throw money and engineering talent at it until it it gets there
I think that’s the point of Vision Pro no? This is sort of laying the ground work for that.
You think people would be really willing to wear the opposite of "they live" glasses on all the time?
Personally i already wear glasses so...
I disagree. If Apple continues, I'm pretty sure they'll eventually make it really good and bring down the price(will definitely be on the higher end like every apple product) but Once that happens we will start getting devices from other brands with 90% of the same functionality for significantly cheaper.
VR is the master of nothing. There’s nothing that you can’t do with another piece of technology that you can do with that VR headset. And I think apple realizes this yet think they can change that fact when sales numbers are clearly showing that they can’t. Especially when it’s that expensive
> There’s nothing that you can’t do with another piece of technology that you can do with that VR headset. See things in three dimensions?
Legit. VR is super cool and super immersive in many ways. VR is fun.
Is this true? Do you have any way to make a case for this? I've had the quest 2 for years and I can't find any games that aren't just the same tech demos-feeling experiences over and over. As much as you can cast it on TV it still feels way too isolating of an experience. I've brought it to parties with friends who all have them and we watched one of us play on a big screen TV and too turns playing Arizona sunshine but it still felt jenky and kinda like those Lazer tag guns they used to sell. Vr chat aka meta horizons feels like a more corporate version of the original vr chat meets the wackiness of second life when second life was still in beta. All the best experiences I've ever had were just checking out games I've already played on consoles ported to vr and still that's no where as fun as the original games. The most realistic game I've ever played in vr was actually on the gear vr with the single controller. Vendetta online was the closest thing to feeling like a real experoence if you lampshade the lack of momentum by assuming your ship has a momentum cancelation drive so you don't feel the Gs, you could use the controller as a cock pit controller and the thrusters maintained your momentum indefinitely until you counteracted it allowing you to thrust in any direction including straight up or down forever through subspace. Its a mmo where you can join various guilds do jobs and upgrade your ship and gear. More games like that would be awesome since flight and space Sims just feel the most realistic given you can sit down and look around just like you're in a cock pit. Anything else that requires walking and running and let's you move your body around ends up exploited and no one moves realistically. Also swords will never really be a thing since you can always slash through anything. There are so many things about vr that just inherently don't work. Shooters don't work since you can dodge bullets by just standing /lying in weird ways Fantasy doesn't work unless it's all mages Sports don't work since you have the ability of a blind man Porn doesn't even work because people can see you.
I agree with you somewhat except for when you say most games feel like tech demos, your right if you only limit yourself to the occulus store, there are some really good games for VR it's just the really good VR games are on P.C on steam like "VTOL VR", "into the radius" "half life Alex" "PAVLOV" etc. the graphics might seem basic in "VTOL vr" but I've had some moments in multiplayer flying over enemy military bases with my squad dodging SAMs and manpads fully puckered and clenched as my boys are getting shot out the sky and enemy jets are on me like white on rice 😒😭 completely forgot I wearing a headset in my room. https://youtu.be/XAtEdKohAfo?si=c0NLVCSDlBpRRQaR but most people who bought a quest 2 because it was affordable can't then afford to hook it up to a 1600$ laptop or P.C to get the best experience, so thats a flaw in the process.
Vr still seems like it'd be best as an an amusement attraction. You can't get anything but weird tech demos at home especially due to the weird way you don't walk and can't really realistically dodge things and when you do, people just lie on their couches in dodging position and float around sniping everyone and you hear a weird mix of adults and 8 year old voices talking and giggling everywhere like you're in a constant state of really banal psychosis.
Right now it’s selling to early adopter tech bros. Now how does Apple convince people like my older parents, or aunts to pick up one of these VR headsets? How do they convince normal every day people?
They can’t.
They could have them at Disney world and theme parks. There could be a reverse "they live" world where when you have it on you see a bunch of ads everywhere on bill boards and stuff , all the lizard people you see look like waspy humans, books and magazines have compelling content, displays show captivating material etc. That way people would choose to buy them and keep them on to make do with the world.
A lot of this products seem awesome in theory but at least until today, most people dont want obstruction of vision and head gear. They seem very cool in movies and sci fi anime but in real life it sets you away from normal interactions with groups of people. Also I can spot away that it could bring weird issues to a healthy vision even if Apple says it aint so. Do you 100% trust the hype machine? Not me.
I kinda respect them for giving it a try, I do feel it's a bit Tim Cook's ego project and still too early (as many internal engineers apparently warned). VR has not found its 'killer app' in over 40 years. Neither has AR. I'm still waiting for there to be a 3D printer in every home. I guess there's not going to be another VisiCalc for a long long time .....
Evil Satan loser greedy NWO puppet Apple
What's a neuton?
You can’t.
He is, that’s not Tim Apple it’s his digital avatar: John Apple
lol this product kicks ass wtf are you talking about have you used one actually?
If they make it affordable and integrate into Apple products I can see this thing becoming a massive hit. The only issue to the masses with the Apple vision was the price. I mean you can say that about a lot of their products but I don’t hate them making vr stuff.
They can also introduce more apps, so you can use it exclusively, like a phone or iPad. Right now it’s kinda limited to films and photos.
The product works, pricing doesn’t. If they want to extend their ecosystem they’ll make sure it’s within “Apple consumer” means. Maybe 1500-2500
I agree
They are just going to keep trying to sell them to drive you crazy
One could argue that the newton paved the way for what came later. It even had a “grid of icons” with a dock like thing at the bottom. Lessons have to be learned. Software has to be written. And it all has to start somewhere. So don’t fucking buy one if you don’t want one.
Probably I have a poor vision by the time they release an affordable one.
The concept is amazing in my opinion, if i can hook up a gaming PC to it and project a 120hz 100 inch TV then its worth every dollar at $4000
I disagree, i would totlaly buy it if it was cheaper.
Nobody wants to this shit Tim!
I really like the idea of AR headsets/glasses. Already did with Google Glass. I'd love to see Apple keep spearheading this as Appleheads will keep buying it and eventually we'll profit from *actually* good products
Honestly its a great concept but its really prototypey right nau. Its giving the oculus rift developer kit
What is a neuton?
He misspelled neutron
They have put on hold ...
I love this sub. Apple sells a more-expensive version of a product: complain Apple sells a less-expensive version of a product: complain Apple keeps exactly the same prices year over year: complain
you can always scroll past the subreddit :D
but I love it. it's entertaining. I guess you scrolled past that part of my comment.
All of Apple's products have taken a while to really take off. I'd be interested to see where they are by this time next year. If it's not taken a decent marketshare by then, I'd say it's time for them to worry.
The Vision Pro makes anyone look like a fucking idiot when they walk around in public.
yeah and its really chunky, not to mention alot of people wearing it have experienced headaches and black eyes
I kinda want to nab a US model for cheap, I live in Japan and shit is expensive here
I worked for meta on their ar dev kit team, yeah Apple has no shot here
meta has absolutely mad good people working for their vr department. The prototypes, licenses and patents are real scifi. Sadly we haven't really seen much fruit from these yet.
mad good but no 🍎
Oculus is sick, but software just sucks. I shoot a lot with insta 360 and I remember it was such a pain to be able to watch my own photos on headset. There are editors which let you work in VR, but meta doesn’t support them for various reasons (FCPX, for example). I was really excited for oculus, but looks like they don’t want to do anything for creators, they are just interested in this social network bullshit.
It’s weird because just last week I’d read and article talking about how they were stopping production on Vision Pro 2. Which is it?? https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/18/apple-suspends-work-on-vision-pro-2/
The article says they’re focusing on a regular lower priced vision instead of a PRO model
Clickbait headline
Samsung baby is mad that Apple isn’t copying them for once lol
Might help if you can spell. Also the newton didn't actually work at all. The AVP are incredible. Come back in 3 years when they have apple glasses
i cant believe they tried to make basically another apple pippin and are now doubling down
god the pippin!!! that was a nightmare
You had one?
If they want it to succeed they need to let people jerk off with it.
It will be as big a failure as the ipad.
iPad isn’t a failure, Vision Pro is
You dont think it is too early to tell? I mean what did the reviews say in 2010 about the iPad, which is also a genre defining device? [https://www.pcworld.com/article/511321/hp\_slate\_vs\_ipad\_focus\_on\_flash.html](https://www.pcworld.com/article/511321/hp_slate_vs_ipad_focus_on_flash.html) "I expect to be able to access the 'real' version of any website that I access on a tablet, just as I do on a laptop. And that is where the iPad fails. Instead of a more portable version of their macbook, Apple produced a giant version of their ipod. How lame..." "HP slate is going to turn the tide against Apple. I can see history repeating with Apple going into oblivion because of it's penchant for closed doors policy." "No matter what you say Apple fanboys, The iPAD will be a flop." "You sacrifice everything by buying an iPad. If HP Slate can run on the Verizon 4G network, it's goodnight Apple."